49ers 30, Packers 33: Grades

San Francisco 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan watches the scoreboard during the first half of an NFL football game against the Green Bay Packers Monday, Oct. 15, 2018, in Green Bay, Wis. (AP Photo/Matt Ludtke)

The Packers beat the 49ers 33-30 Monday night. Here are the 49ers grades:

BEATHARD: C. For three quarters, he played the game of his life. He made good decisions, accurate throws and outplayed Aaron Rodgers at Lambeau Field. Then, the fourth quarter started. Beathard’s passer rating was 16.7 during that quarter. First, he missed an easy throw to George Kittle in the red zone. That miss may have cost the 49ers four points. Two possessions later, Beathard underthrew a deep pass to Marquise Goodwin on third-and-3. The Packers intercepted the ball, and won the game shortly after. Beathard showed in the fourth quarter why he is nothing more than a mere backup quarterback. The 49ers were wrong to trade up in the third round to get him.

RUNNING BACKS: B. They rushed 26 times for 148 yards – an excellent average of 5.7 yards per carry. But, when the 49ers had the ball and a seven-point lead with four minutes left, they couldn’t run to put the game away. The running game failed when it mattered. And Kyle Juszczyk fumbled earlier in the game.

WIDE RECEIVERS: C-plus. Marquise Goodwin scored two touchdowns and caught four passes for 126 yards. He makes the 49ers offense so much more dangerous when he’s healthy. The rest of the wide receivers were non-factors. Pierre Garcon had just 37 receiving yards. Time to bench him.

TIGHT ENDS: C-minus. George Kittle had just 30 receiving yards, but would have had more if Beathard hadn’t overthrown him in the red zone during the fourth quarter. Garrett Celek had zero receiving yards. If only the 49ers hadn’t traded away Vance McDonald last season. He would be a huge upgrade over Celek.

OFFENSIVE LINE: B. These guys blocked well most of the game, but couldn’t create rushing lanes during crunch time. And Mike McGlinchey gave up two sacks. The rest of this unit gave up none.

DEFENSIVE LINE: A-minus. Ronald Blair, Sheldon Day and DeForest Buckner each recorded one sack. Buckner would have recorded two, but a penalty by Richard Sherman negated the second one. Overall, these guys played well most of the game. But, on third-and-10 with the game on the line, the defensive line abandoned their rush lanes and let Rodgers scramble up the middle for 21 yards. Fundamental mistake.

LINEBACKERS: B. They gave up long passes during the first quarter after biting on play-action fakes. But, they adjusted and played well the rest of the game.

SAFETIES: D. Jaquiski Tartt gave up an 11-yard catch to Jimmy Graham on third-and-5 during the third quarter. Tartt was in man-to-man coverage, but took his eyes off Graham and looked at the quarterback. Fundamental mistake.

CORNERBACKS: F. Richard Sherman extended the game by committing a holding penalty on third-and-15 and giving the Packers and automatic first down during their final drive. And cornerback Greg Mabin lost the game by giving up three catches after Sherman’s penalty.

SPECIAL TEAMS: B-minus. Robbie Gould was perfect kicking field goals, but returner D.J. Reed fumbled a kick return, and the 49ers benched him.

COACHES: C. Kyle Shanahan lost a game because of his coaching which he almost won because of his coaching. His team was prepared. They played hard and committed just two penalties. His game plan was brilliant. It had a little bit of everything. His play-calling was balanced and aggressive. He called more runs than passes through the first three quarters. And he had a seven-point lead with four minutes left. But, he couldn’t hold it. His offense stopped working. Then, with 1:16 left in the game, he had the ball near midfield facing second-and-3. The Packers had no timeouts. Had he called a run on either second down or third down, the game probably would have gone to overtime, or the 49ers might have won. Instead, he called back-to-back passes. The first was incomplete, and the second was intercepted. Shanahan gave away a win, just like he did in the Super Bowl. And his defensive coordinator was equally bad with the game on the line. Robert Saleh allowed the Packers to pick on Mabin repeatedly on the final drive. Saleh didn’t help him. Could have given him safety help. Didn’t. Once again, the 49ers beat themselves. Both their players and coaches don’t know how to win.

This article has 384 Comments

    1. It was easy to predict this loss would occur in the 4th quarter. The trouble with Kyle is that he is not a winner. He is a decent OC but not a good HC. He never sustains his good quarters. As for CJ, he has that look that says, “I am a loser and want to and will lose the game with the key bad play at the wrong time.” With a bad OL and a worse defensive backfield, we are really no better off than we were 3-4 years ago. The self-caused drought continues.

  1. Grant ,
    You said in your tweet that Lynch and Peters wanted Kevin King, but Shanahan convinced them to draft spoon. Sources please?

        1. Didn’t you read Peter King’s long article last year about their draft? There was a whole scene about their internal debate re: King and Witherspoon.

          1. I remember we were both high on Kevin King, but that wasn’t an option after the Foster trade. I was also high on signing Jimmy Graham and drafting Valdes-Scantling (3 catches, 103 YDs).

            1. Kyle also said King was better, but didn’t think he was worthy of a top 30 pick…

              “Shanahan: “Kevin is a goal if we had the 32nd pick.”
              Peters: “Not in the twenties, even?”
              Shanahan: “To me, if we gained a bunch of stuff then we need to debate whether to move up into the twenties. I personally … I know King’s the best, but when you talk about guys like [Colorado cornerback] Ahkello Witherspoon possibly in the third or even [West Virginia cornerback] Rasul Douglas—like, we all know King is the best. [But] not a huge difference in getting the other guys.”

              1. Grant, as you well know, The decision was between Foster and King, not Witherspoon and King.

                You can have Foster and Witherspoon
                You can have King and Witherspoon
                But you cannot have Foster and King

                Based on his pre-draft ranking, Witherspoon was a slight reach early in the third round, but I don’t remember anyone questioning his coverage ability. They questioned his tackling. As it has played out, yeah, he is pretty bad, unfortunately.

                If we don’t get better Defensive Backs, we will never hold a lead. That being said, we are not as bad as it looks, and I could see us winning half of our remaining games based on the weak schedule. So I don’t see us ultimately in the Nick Bosa sweepstakes, but maybe Greedy Williams or whoever the best CB is.

  2. Sorry Grant, WRONG!
    They played a game that everybody said they were going to lose. This season could have easily been 5-1, if they hadn’t beaten themselves. What does that tell you?
    They did lose but showed once again that they could have won.
    They are experimenting with the plays and players, some work, some don’t
    To me this is a win-win, and in fact they are doing what you suggested a few days ago…. use this time to Learn.
    Try out new things, lose the game and win a high draft pick!
    Great D!

  3. “when the 49ers had the ball and a seven-point lead with four minutes left, they couldn’t run to put the game away.”

    Probably because they tried to run the ball only once.

          1. hah, run right into the teeth of the defense, that’s always your game plan Grant. Laughable.

            All Beathard had to do was throw the ball to the 5 yard line and let Quise run under it, but Beathard did what he always does, wilted under pressure late in a close game. Beathard is the problem, as well as our defense.

            If my memory serves me correctly, the 49ers had no problem winning close games with Jimmy at the helm last season.

            1. They should have run a screen pass at that point, with the pressure that was coming there would have been no one in the middle and just a quick flip over the pass rush would have resulted in a huge game.

              You can not blame Beathard for that INT. He had no time to set his feet, he doesn’t have that great of an arm.

              1. “You can not blame Beathard for that INT.”

                Sure you can. He had Kittle wide open for a much higher percentage throw.

              2. I think they should have done more designed roll outs, so Nick Perry could not stand in one spot and swat down 3 passes. I agree, they should have expected the blitz, and designed a play that takes advantage of the blitzer. A screen or a swing pass would have been very effective.
                .
                CJB has plenty of arm, Just look at those Goodwin catches. He also had time. He just should have done my Third Down Bomb play, and thrown it to the 5 yard line. Then Goodwin might have made the catch instead of the Packer defender, intercepting it on the 10 yard line..

              3. Correctly rocket, The notion that it was a simple decision between King and Witherspoon is a misrepresentation of the facts.

                Also, I can’t be the only one who finds Grant’s analysis to be overly simplistic ok, can I?

                Is there anything easier than to simply claim the 49rrs lost because they didn’t run the football into the teeth of GB’s defense inside the final 6 minutes?

                I don’t understand why anyone would think that it’s a good idea to call running plays when the opposing defense is selling out against the run?

                I’ll make this point for the umpteenth time: Unless you are ahead by multiple scores late in the game, the fact of the matter is, if the defense is forcing you to beat them through the air, then you better be able to do just that, or you aren’t going to beat Aaron Rodgers’ GB Packers or any other decent team.

                The notion that it’s as simple as running the football, regardless of the defensive formation you are facing, is silly and juvanile.

                The great Jerry Rice weighed in today, and he got it right. The problem wasn’t the play calling, it was Beathard’s poor execution.

                And, BTW, if Garoppllo was under center last night, the 49ers would have put the game on ice, just like they did in those close games down the stretch last season, with Jimmy at the helm.

                In fact, it you want to oversimplify the reason why the Niners lost last night, look no further than the 0-3 turnover ratio. 19 time out of 20 your going to lose on the road to Aaron Rodgers with a 0-3 turnover ratio. NINETEEN OUT OF TWENTY!!!

              4. And I’ve heard people say “the 49ers should have played for overtime last night.”

                Hah. If Shanahan, with a 1-4 team destined to miss the playoffs, would have played for overtime last night, everyone would have been criticizing him for not being aggressive enough.

                Being an armchair Head Coach, after the fact, is way too easy.

  4. Thanks Grant.

    Although King had his first interception today, (at the moment and purely on paper) Spoon has better stats through Year 2. Spoon is regressing, while King seems to be trending up though. Not sure how much of this is because of injury.

    Does anyone know if Spoon got any snaps today? He was not on the inactive list…..but don’t remember him getting snaps even in ST.

  5. I think you’re too hard on Beathard. Yes he’s a back up QB. But in my book if you play well for 3 quarters and make just a few mistakes then you get a better grade than a C. Maybe a B minus.

    The Linebackers have their problems. The problem with “all gas and no brakes” is that when you have young and inexperienced linebackers they tend to over-commit on their first read (if they even read the play correctly to begin with). The Packers kept exploiting that with runs and passes to the backside of the line movement. The linebackers and safety lost their containment responsibilities because they’d see something that would draw them in and get them out of place for containment. Don’t get me wrong, the backers made some nice plays too and they were less susceptible to containment loss in the 2nd half. But IMO if you’re going up against Aaron Rodgers and the Packers…I’m not too worried about the Packers run game and If I’m a linebacker; I’m honoring my coverage responsibilities over my run fit responsibilities and not so easily get sucked up by play action, bootlegs etc….

    The secondary coach….Hafely I think….needs to be fired. The DB’s look lost most of the time and forget basic coverage techniques related to game situation and field position.

    Saleh should not have been running his typical Cover 3 (and 1) single high shell during the last minute of the game when the Packers had the ball deep in their own territory.

    Blair obviously needs to get more playing time

    1. Good observations AFFP. Another problem: a rookie with the green dot:
      “Theme after talking to several 49ers defenders in the locker room: They botched several communications at the start of the game. Fred Warner, who wears the radio, said it was his fault and that he got “caught up in the moment.”
      — David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) “

      1. put simply: it’s a case of young players thinking about blowing up their opponent instead of doing their job. the mistake young players often make is thinking that those two concepts are always one and the same thing.

        1. Exactly. I’ve never like Saleh preaching playing with extreme violence and “all gas and no brakes” as you put it, because to do so these guys often have to overcommit. It’s a great soundbite for a violent game, but all too easy to exploit.

    2. All you guys calling for Hafely to be fired are ridiculous. You guys have absolutely no idea what Hafely teaches players. None. Whatsoever. He might be an awful coach. He might be a great coach. All I know is you guys have absolutely no clue what he coaches. If you want to be mad at someone for the defense the most obvious person is Saleh. Repeatedly leaving Greg Mabin, who is a 2nd year undrafted free agent, 1v1 on one of the best receivers in the league is poor strategy. More than anything else in that game, the 49ers refusal to give Mabin any help was the biggest coaching mistake.

    3. Actually allforfunnplay, I think it’s the opposite.

      It’s how well you play when the game is on the line, that separates the best from the rest. Nobody cares if you play well for 3 QTRS if you have a habit of folding down the stretch, with the game on the line, like Beathard’s has.

  6. I’m also not a fan of bunch formation plays….especially on third down with young QBs. It just seemed like every time the Niners called one of those plays (particularly in the last couple of series). Beathard and/or the offensive line was all confused…..rushers were coming through the middle and the edges and Beathard seemed slow to process things (as usual). When they’re all bunched together…..it’s supposed to give the receivers a better release and potentially confuse or slow down the coverage. Now if you’ve got a young QB. …you gotta spread things out. Young QB’s have an easier time seeing space and where to throw the ball when the plays (routes) are spread out. Bunched together the play/route combos starts out looking all jumbled. It takes an experienced QB to anticipate how those routes will develop so they can anticipate throws into that jumbled mess. Where as spread out the QB can see the open space immediate…even before the receiver gets there. I dunno…just my opinion I guess.

    1. A great example was Rodger’s TD pass when the Packers had a bunched formation (4 receivers to the left side). Didn’t help that the niners only had two guys over there defending with a third moving that way after the snap.

      1. I’m sorry, but that has to be partly on the players. I mean at some point, you have to let common sense and football smarts prevail. They may have never seen that formation before, but what are the two LBs in the middle doing when 4 guys are split out left and there is no RB in the backfield? Someone has to call a time-out or at least check to man-coverage there.

        Our goal line defense is horrendous. At least 1 easy TD every single game with the players not knowing who to cover or what gap they’re supposed to be in.

  7. Another night in which offense/special teams pretty much gift wraps points with turnovers. Defense did good to hold them to FG’s.

    1. Saleh’s plan with bringing targeted pressure on a weakened Packer’s offensive line and a banged up Aaron Rodgers was a good one. But even the best of defensive plans that work 8 out of 10 times can’t be successful if the other 2 times the defense gives up big chunk plays consistently due to miscommunication and/or poor execution/technique.

      1. In the first half the defense gave up 14 points and then the FG to start the 2nd half. Considering the opponent they played good for most of the game, even having a stop near the goal line.

        The offense couldn’t get a first down in the 4th quarter, 3 straight 3 and outs.

        1. AFFP is right that Hafley needs to be fired. The secondary looked confused on most plays with Packer WRs wide open in the first half.

  8. To be fair to McGlinchey one of those sacks was on CJ.
    CJ had 6 seconds before he was touched, he has to do a better job of getting through his reads and getting rid of the ball if the play isn’t there.

      1. He did, but it was after riding Clay so far out of the play that it took 6 seconds to finally get to CJ.
        You made it sound like he got beat clean which he didn’t. How long do you think the line should be expected to hold up? 8 seconds? 10 seconds? At what point do you think it is on the qb to get rid of the ball?

          1. The coverage may well have been good (I didn’t see it.)

            However, on this particular play CJ seemed to feel the pressure before it got to him. It looked like he dropped his eyes because he pulled the ball down and had it near his hip. He couldn’t have thrown the ball even if someone had broken free.

            The sad part is he could have rolled to his left and bought more time as no one was there to contain him.

            1. Yea Shoup…The play where McGlinchy fell and Mathews got the sack…(Had he not fell Blake Martinez was right there to sack CJB anyway) I felt the game was too big for Beathard at that point.

              However…..This kid seems to keep improving. I’ll tell you there are alot of worse QBs in the league than Beathard after this performance.
              .I wonder where will he be in 5 years? Writing country music? An effective starter somewhere? He’s resilient, I’m not comfortable writing him off as some failed KS experiment. Kids just raw, needs 3 more years.

        1. Shoup:

          Grant predicted the Glinch would get schooled. Even thought I thought he played a fairly good game and that the one sack was CJB’s fault, Grant has to to make those statements otherwise he’ll have to admit he was wrong.

    1. A case can be made that the first sack wasn’t McGlinchey’s fault either. Maybe the first one was on McGlinchey, but it was a missed assignment or bad read, which you kind of expect from a rookie OT making his 6th career start. Grant’s bias aside, McGlinchey is looking very good. He’s made some rookie mistakes, made one last night, but he’s been really good. PFF has The Glinch rated well above big Trent Brown. Of course, Grant will dismiss PFF’s analysis, unless of course he agrees with PFF, in which case he will tout their analysis.

      BTW, the great Jerry Rice was critical of 49ers’ execution, not the play call, on final offensive snap. So he’s with me on this one. Lots of people lamented Shanahan’s play-calling on the final drive, but truth be told, the 49ers would not have been in a position to win had it not been for Shanahan’s superb play-calling throughout the game. The 49ers scored on six of their first eight offensive drives, which includes Kyle Juszczyk’s fumble on the first play of their fourth drive.

      Grant and others have been calling for Kyle to lean on the running game, so what did he do? One week after C.J. Beathard threw the ball 54 times, he attempted just 23 passes Monday night. The 49ers relied heavily on the running game, which compiled 174 yards, and set up play-action and misdirection. They moved the ball with ease for most of the game.

      It’s easy in hindsight to say the 49ers should have ran the ball three straight times on the final drive, but the 49ers had gained negative-one rushing yards on the prior two possessions. Shanahan chose to stay aggressive, rather than run the ball and risk overtime, and contrary to some opinions, he was aggressive because he didn’t want to give Rodgers the ball in the waning minutes.

      Again that goes back to my point, and the great Jerry Rice’s point. It’s up to the Head Coach put his players, especially his backup QB, in a position to win the game. Kyle did just that. It’s not up to the HC to execute the play. At some point it ultimately becomes the player’s responsibility to make a play. That’s why Aaron Rodgers and Jimmy Garoppolo make way more money than Kyle Shanahan.

      Here’s Jerry Rice (almost repeating what I said verbatim) on Beathard’s game deciding INT: “I think C.J. threw the ball a little short and when he really needed to be accurate and stuff like that,” Rice said. “Put the ball out just a little bit further, let (Marquise) Goodwin run under the ball. They did it earlier during the football game. Everything was fine so on a play like that, that’s man-to-man, you’ve got to put that ball out there. You know this guy is a sprinter. He’s got world-class speed. Throw it deep and let him go make the play.”

      Rice didn’t really have a problem with the play call itself. Just the players’ — particularly Beathard’s — execution of it.

      “I don’t think he really just put enough velocity on the ball,” Rice explained. “It looked like he just threw it up […] I’m not going to say it was a bad decision to make that call and throw the ball deep like that. You’ve got one-on-one coverage. This is an opportunity to win this football game right now, and I think Kyle Shanahan, he went for it and it just ended up backfiring.” Jerry stated.

      Yes, it backfired because Beathard failed to execute, just as Matt Ryan failed to execute during the Super Bowl. In fact, CJB made multiple mistakes on that fateful play. He had his TE and another WR open on shorter, higher percentage throws, yet Beathard chose the toughest throw to execute, and his pass was woefully underthrown.

      Beathard also overthrew a wide open Kittle on 3rd and 4, at GB’s 24 yard line. A brilliant play call, poorly executed by Beathard. A Td on that drive and SF goes up 2 scores.

        1. I said a case could be made, because it’s possible Richburg made the wrong line call, but I also followed it up with it being a mental mistake, which you’re going to get with rookie OT’s. Joe Staley made his share of mental mistakes as a rookie. McGlinchey will learn how to correct those, it’s a concern when OT’s are getting beat physically, which you kind of expected out of Matthews. McGlinchey held up well athletically, as he has done all season. Yes the turf monster got him on one play, big whoop. That also happens to the best of them. You were so sure McGlinchey couldn’t hold up athletically to the speed of NFL OLB’s and speed rushing DE’s, and you seem to be wrong. McGlinchey has held up very well athletically.

          And I have no doubt that, if McGlinchey was grading out poorly by PFF, you would be the first to point towards their analysis. It’s what you do Grant. You bend yourself in pretzels to support whatever your current narrative may be.

          The reason I decided to stick around on this blog was to defend Shanahan from your biased form of “journalism.” If you were truly calling strikes and balls fairly, you’d be calling for Saleh’s head, not Kyle’s. At least that’s what myself, Jerry Rice, and Brent Jones think. Of course those guys are ex-players, so they also understand that, at some point, it’s up to players like Beathard to execute. Kyle put him a position to succeed last night and Beathard misfired on a few very important opportunities. Good QB’s make those plays work. Saleh on the other hand, isn’t putting his players in a position to succeed. Yet you want to deflect from him in order to falsely place blame on Kyle, and I’m not buying it.

            1. Why is that? Kyle schemed up Beathard multiple opportunities to make plays in the final 4 minutes.

              Go back and look at the INT. First, Beathard had the perfect matchup with Goodwin facing man coverage, and Beathard simply blew it Grant. JERRY RICE: “I think C.J. threw the ball a little short and when he really needed to be accurate and stuff like that,” Rice said. “Put the ball out just a little bit further, let (Marquise) Goodwin run under the ball. They did it earlier during the football game. Everything was fine so on a play like that, that’s man-to-man, you’ve got to put that ball out there. You know this guy is a sprinter. He’s got world-class speed. Throw it deep and let him go make the play.”

              Take another look at that big 3rd down INT Beathard tossed, where GB rushed 6 defenders:

              a) Bourne ran a little dig route and had plenty of separation – easy completion for first down, Beathard never looked his way.

              b) Kittle ran a little quick out route, had separation, easy completion to move the chains, but Beathard never looked at him.

              c) Goodwin against man coverage with no safety help over the top VS a CB who simply cannot run with the olympic speedster, and all Beathard (who had time to step into his throw) needed to do is float the ball 48 yards downfield and let the speedster run under it (a shorter throw than the bomb he connected with Goodwin earlier in the game), instead Beathard throws a lollipop, woefully under throwing the speedster and never giving him a chance to make the play.

              I’m sorry Grant but that’s the definition of putting your players in a position to win a game nobody expected them to win. It was Kyle’s brilliant game planning and play calling that put the team in position to win the game in regulation in the first place. The fact is, if your going to beat Aaron Rodgers and the GB Packers at Lambeau Field, despite being down by a 2 turnover margin late in the game, your QB simply has to be better than Beathard was in the clutch. He’s no longer a rookie Grant. At what point are the professional athletes responsible for executing the plays? Do you think Montana underthrows Goodwin by 10 yards in that situation? Do you Garoppolo underthrows the speedster by 10 yards in that situation? Do you think Rodgers underthrows Goodwin or takes the lowest percentage option with the game on the line, when all he needed was 3.5 yards to gain a first down, and put his team in a golden position to kick a game winning field goal?

              Instead, your answer is to run the ball right smack into the teeth of the defense?

              It’s easy in hindsight to say the 49ers should not have ran three straight times on the final drive. But the 49ers had gained negative-one rushing yards on the prior two possessions. Shanahan chose to stay aggressive, rather than run the ball and risk overtime. He didn’t want to give Rodgers the ball.

              Do you think the 49ers should play for overtime on the road against GB, when they had an opportunity to be aggressive and put the packers away in regulation? You think that’s the message Kyle should send with a 1-4 football team, missing their star QB, going against Aaron Rodgers on MNF? Really?

              I just know in my heart that, had Kyle been conservative, running the ball into consecutive 3 and outs, instead of staying aggressive against a great 4th QTR QB like Rodgers, you would have criticized him for that. He was damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t.

              Since your live-blogging the game, why don’t you make the proper call PRIOR to the outcome, so we can judge whether you could have called a better 4th QTR, because anyone can use hindsight and say they should have done this, or should have done that.

              1. Anyone can use hindsight and say they should have done this, or should have done that.

                Not you, apparently.

              2. “It’s easy in hindsight to say the 49ers should not have ran three straight times on the final drive.”

                Don’t think there’s a single person on here who has said that.

  9. GB
    521 total YDs

    SF
    1/1 in the RZ, perfect for the last two games.
    2 penalties.
    30 rushes, 23 passes.
    The big one, 3 TOs.

    KS on the late deep ball.

    “It wasn’t really what we wanted. The all-out blitz stuff, we had to get rid of it,” Shanahan said. There (are) four options on the play, but that wasn’t the one we wanted.”

    KS was playing to win and it didn’t work. Personally, I think we have a better shot at getting 3 YDs on two carries rather than putting the game in CJ’s hands. But the Niners last two carries went for -1 YD, Both carries were on 1st down and those drives ended up being 3 & outs. GB was selling out against the run, they were desperate.

    1. That’s right #80.

      Speaking of #80, Jerry Rice doesn’t place the blame on Shanahan.

      https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/119960-jerry-rice-critical-49ers-execution-play-final-offensive/

      And I just heard 49ers great TE Brent Jones on KNBR basically say if there is blame to be placed on any of the coaches, it should be placed on Saleh, who ironically enough, Grant Cohn has been praising lately, even though Saleh’s defense is ranked in the bottom half of the league in every single defensive category, and has often been outcoached this season, particularly in the 1st and 4th QTR’s.

      Keep your spirits up Forty niner Faithful, here’s a quote from USA Today to brighten our day:

      “They seem to lose a key player by the week, yet Kyle Shanahan’s charges fight to the final whistle every time out, an encouraging sign for the future!”

  10. Defense gives up 10 points and 137 YDs on the last two drives. Saleh had success with blitzing, but Rodgers made him pay in crunch time. The offense started off looking sharp on the first drive, the defense didn’t look ready to play to start the game for the second straight week.

  11. This was an encouraging game..My opinion is that the only reason the 49ers were competitive, was KS. He literally schemed every throw for Beathard…CJ was able to hit his first read the majority of the game….Lets be clear- CJ was not ‘outdueling’ Aaron Rogers, at any point, since the beginning of time. Rogers is clearly not 100%, and just as noticeable was the lack of timing with his backup rookie receivers…(49ers should trade for EQ) I don’t know what’s going on in the back end of the 49ers secondary, but it’s embarrassing. Guys were running wide open seemingly half the game. (I don’t care what PFF says, Tartt is incredibly overrated.)

    The fact is KS showed alot of trust in CJB…Being aggressive is the right call…Underdog in Lambeau…There are 2 guys on this planet that you absolutely can not give the ball back to in crunch time….And when one of them is the opposing QB –3 runs and a cloud of dust isn’t gonna cut it. And those of you that say that it does…I question how well you understand real 49er football.

      1. Sebs……………

        Now you know more than Rice and Brent???? I have always thought you did……

        Forget it, Sebs…………..Kaps not coming back!!!!!!!!!!! And THAT is where your bitterness comes from!

  12. Your most on-the-ball comment: The 49er players and coaches (ultimately, the owner) don’t know how to win. (Since Harbaugh).
    Particularly the coach. Epic melt-down in the super bowl. After that, I didn’t want the Niners to hire him. Proved prescient. In two years, he’s done nothing but lose when it mattered.

  13. I fear that Shanahan has baked in the concept of losing in the forth quarter.
    Shanahan needs an Auriga whispering in his ear… get an OC!

  14. Grant, I think the criticism of the last few play calls as losing the game are moot. Rodgers was thinking overtime, said it himself. It was the poor fundamentals of one player: Mabin! What was he doing? He is a professional football player! The Sherman penalty at the end was a marginal call… The 49ers don’t get that call. I admired Sherman’s passion and heart. In that final drive, he saw Adams line up in the slot and he moved off his guy to cover him, which he rarely does, and took away that option. If he doesn’t get that penalty called on him, he potentially saves the game. Beathard played his heart out, was fun to watch, and then he shows that he is a second year back-up by letting the game speed up on him. I don’t think any of us went in thinking they would give a team like Green Bay a run for their money, especially in an environment like Lambeau Field on a Monday Night! Credit to them for almost pulling an upset and providing football fans with an entertaining game. But this is Football, no moral victories, just wins and losses. I cannot help getting caught up in the “what-ifs”, but if Jimmy G steps out of bounds in KC, would we be a 4-2 team right now?

  15. Grant, Vance McDonald would be a huge upgrade over Celek, but did you see the game vs. the Bengals on Sunday? Impressive stat lines, but he coughs the ball up inside the 5, it could have cost them the game, but thankfully a Steeler WR jumped on it. He still drops good passes too. I think we ended up getting Kentavius Street with the 4th rounder we received from Pittsburgh. I would probably still rather have McDonald, even with his flaws.

    1. “but he coughs the ball up inside the 5, it could have cost them the game,”

      Shh, don’t destroy the Vance is good now narrative.

  16. As usual, don’t agree with Coach (The plumber) Hindsight. Kyle called a great game and should have come away with the victory. Why didn’t they? CJ DeBerg of course. He’s just good enough to lose. Throw in the proverbial “prevent defense” in the end and there you have it. Prevention of a win.

    1. That’s what I’m saying Juan
      This is three weeks now…That CJ has put us in a bad spot..with the game on the line..
      San Diego, Arizona and now Green Bay..
      And we were ahead in all of them too..
      So you can’t really trust him..

      How do you win a game with a quarterback and defense you can’t trust with a lead???
      My heart goes out to Kyle..

      You keep wondering when the shoe will drop..

      I saw CJ’s interception coming…
      I saw The Reed fumble coming too..
      I’m like why are you cutting back inside instead of going out of bounds?
      Juice’s fumble was just par for the course…

      I cringe when the running backs fight for extra yardage..
      I cringe when CJ throws the ball..

      You just know something bad is gonna happen..
      Getting critical sacks….or stops…or first down
      You just know they aren’t..
      It’s always something!

  17. Another game the banged up offense scores enough points to win; another game the healthy defense blows it… Giving up 33 points and 521 yards of offense ain’t gonna get it done while expecting a backup QB and backup RBs to win it is amusing…. Sherman and Shanahan can defend Saleh all they want but the players keep missing tackles, routinely blow their assignments/coverages and generally look unprepared in this “simple” scheme. That falls on Saleh. I really hope Shanahan reaches out to Kris Richard at year’s end if he wants to stick with this defensive scheme… Hire someone who knows how to take care of their side of the ball, coach… If not Saleh could very well end up being your downfall.

    1. Another game, another 6 points allowed by the offense/special teams with fumbles that give the opposition the ball in scoring position.

      This defense stood up through most of the game after the 1st quarter. When the offense can’t generate a 1st down in the 4th quarter it’s usually not going to end well, and that’s really a big part of why they lost this game.

      1. LOL….. 10 points given up in the last 2 minutes by this D which you continue to support and Rodgers had to drive the length of the field for the game winning kick which he did with ease….. Too bad Saleh was calling the wrong coverages but yeah, lets continue to act like the defense isn’t an issue. Smh…. How many more points do you expect this offense filled with backups to produce?? There’s really no debate here but it is a bit amusing…. Ciao.

        1. They had them stopped with a sack, but old man Sherm kept the drive alive.

          How the game would have played out if not for those deep turnovers nobody knows. But keep yapping about the D. 33 points the last 3 weeks from turnovers special teams errors setting the opposition up inside the 49ers 40.

  18. Those clamoring for Vance McDonald must have forgotten his dropped passes, inconsistent blocking and overall poor performance considering he was a second round pick… Only the Great Baalke would make McDrop the 3rd highest paid TE in guaranteed $$ at the time… Sure, Celek sucks but McDonald isn’t much better… This is another position they can look to in the draft but regardless, McDrop’s time was up.

      1. Rollo,
        The same people who claim that Vance would be helping us today if he were still here are some of those who were upset that we let Alex walk.

        Now, they keep pinning the SB loss on Shanahan from a couple of years later.
        I see a pattern and an agenda here.

        Alex, Vance, and I might as well add Vernon Davis, Delaney Walker and Iupati would have likely helped if they were still here. But they’re not.

        Time to move on from the “what if’s” and let the current regime develop the players we actually do have.

        It’s obvious that Shanahan is a marked man by some. But the way I see it, he’s also a young headcoach learning all the nuances of the game as well.

        The Org was aware of this when they hired him. Hence the 6 year contract.
        I don’t like the losses, but I said at the beginning of the season that what I wanted to see this year was player development.

  19. Like I said last night that loss stings. Its clear this team is one dynamic edge rusher, lock down corner and quarterback away from being a legit team. Right now we have a good foundation but we need another 2 drafts and free agent periods to be a team that can go on the road and win the kinda games like last night.

    If there is anything positive to take from last night is the boys still play hard, the coaching rectified the previous weeks mistakes and it looks like everyone is not giving up.

  20. Grant, I would give the coaching a C-. KS deserved an A for the first half, but a D in the final quarter.
    .
    Saleh deserved a D in the beginning of the game, but the defense improved much during the game.
    .
    What would move the grade from a C to C- is Halfly. those DBs were clueless. The receivers looked uncovered in the beginning, and Mabin did not defend the side line. He should have let the receiver catch the ball in the field so the clock would keep running. Instead, he let them catch the ball and step out of bounds to stop the clock.
    .
    This was another game where the Niners snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

  21. I don’t understand the defense of this defense. They stink. Period. They couldn’t stop a good high school team with the game on the line. What the hell are defenders of this crappy defense talking about? They suck. Quit making excuses for them. They lost the game, again. Jeesh.

    1. Juan, I am impressed with 4th down stops. I will heartily agree that the defense needs to improve.
      .
      I liked the overall D line play, and they got 3 sacks. 4 sacks if you count Deforest’Bones’ Kelly- Buckner, if not for a ticky tacky call.
      .
      Yes, and I will agree that the last 4 minutes of defense stunk. However, the second quarter defense was stout.
      .
      The crux of the matter is the coaching. I am spoiled because I had witnessed those George Seiffert defenses. Many have recently seen those Vic Fangio defenses that were not only talented, they played together tightly like a well oiled machine.
      .
      These coaches think that giving the green dot to a rookie is smart, and it sure seemed like the Packers exploited mismatches, and let Aaron Rodgers carve them up. Sure, the players made mistakes, but the coaches need to coach them well enough to stop making those mistakes. Sure, there were missed assignments, but better preparations will make the players play more efficiently and with ‘extreme’ discipline.
      .
      My premise is that there is talent, but the coaches are not bringing that out of them. They need to put in players into their best position to succeed, and maximize their potential. Instead, we get the Keystone Cops.
      .
      Saleh, like KS, is young and inexperienced in their new positions. They are making mistakes because they are complicating matters, when simplifying may be the best course of action. They need to get back to the basics, and master them, before moving on.
      .
      I hope you will agree with me that they really need to improve. I still think they have hope, but you can differ with my opinion. I was very happy that Thomas played stout, and Blair and Day did well. It was unfortunate that Ward became injured, but he has a proclivity to become that.
      .
      I hope you will now agree that an OC is necessary. This game was so close, the addition (and absense)of an OC may have been the difference between winning and losing. An OC may have suggested better plays to run that would have helped the game management, and game clock management. KS tends to freeze up, and not make the smart move. Did KS really call a time out, that eventually helped the Packers? That was obtuse.

      1. there is a lack of talent on this defense.all the coaching in the world is not going to make colbert,mabin,and ward into solid nfl players

  22. I’m hearing the 49ers are gonna sign Tommy Savage. Adding him to the roster only bolsters our chances in the Bosanova Sweepstakes!

        1. If you think Savage is superior to Kaep, I will question your football knowledge.
          .
          Guess the elegant tank is in full force.

          1. Haaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Savage over Kap!!!!!!!!! Hmmm, guess Shannylynch must not like Kaps stats from the last 3 yrs.

            Hmmm………………………..

    1. Raz,
      I heard that Bosa may opt to sit out the rest of season in order to prep for the draft.

      I see the logic behind his decision. He is likely the top pick in the draft and does not want to risk an injury.
      My worry is that he may use the same logic in the NFL ala Le’Veon Bell at some point in his career – and that gives me pause.

      1. AES, that’s not enough worry for me to pass on an elite talent at an elite position. I’d worry about that bridge when the time came to cross it….

  23. Shanny called out Mostert in front of the team, and challenged him to play better. Sign of the disciplinarian.

    Meaningless wins was a topic of discussion, but maybe it’s time for a new one. Meaningful losses….

    1. We saw better play from Mostert this last game. However, if I was KS, I would also call myself out for needing to call better plays at critical moments. I probably wouldn’t do it after every game, but at select moments. I don’t know. It would appeal to me as a player if a coach did that occassionally. What do you think, Razor?

      1. You’ve given me a great idea. Big Shanny shows up during a team meeting, and calls Kyle out in front of the team. Kinda like a dad admonishing his son for something he did wrong, only in a lighthearted way….

      2. If Mostert can keep that up it’d be huge. He’s quick like Breida and last night he was really good like you said.

        1. Agreed. I was listening to the Better Rivals podcast during the week and they had a guy on who was talking about Mostert and how great an athlete he is. Actually I think it was the old 49ers strengh and training coach who was talking about him. Said Mostert’s one of the best athletes he’s ever seen. Based on the speed and quickness he showed against GB I can believe it.

    1. Against Aaron Rodgers, who the Niners should have drafted instead of AS, yes. He carved up the depleted secondary and took apart the rookies.
      .
      Even with the 521 yards, the Niners could have won with better coaching. They should have gone for it on 4th down instead of settling for a field goal. The play calling, game management and clock management was poor.
      .
      The defensive coaches deserve the most censure. Halfly was awful.

      1. you blather on with the same old crap.like we didnt know the niners should have drafted Rodgers.Better coaching? you cant shine a you know what.there is a huge lack of talent on the defense. just cause you draft a player in the high rounds doesnt mean he will perform up to that pick

        1. There were a lot of us who liked Aaron Rodgers over AS before the draft. He was a Northern California kid, he played for Cal, and he was accurate. Many others liked AS, and defended him unto death when he was benched for Kaep. They rooted for him at KC. They still root for him in DC. Many were applauding that Nolan chose AS, and did not want AR.
          .
          BTW, the Niner defense allowed the Niners to have a 7 point lead late in the 4th quarter, so that huge lack of talent actually did well. Sure, the defense can improve, but Aaron Rodgers is elite, so it was expected that he would do well.
          .
          Defending the coaching after a 1-5 record is delusional. Those first round picks may be under achieving because of a lack of competent coaching. A competent coach would tell Mabin to cover the side line, and force everything in bounds.

  24. Entertaining game, but we have a long way to go.

    1. I dont buy this absurd notion that we are 2-3 players away? Away from what, 6 wins per year ?
    2. Our secondary stinks. 7th round draft picks and UDFA will not cut in the the NFL.
    3 . Grant tweeted : John Lynch and Adam Peters wanted to draft Kevin King. Kyle Shanahan convinced them instead to draft Ahkello Witherspoon. Does this mean Shanahan has veto power over Lynch and Peters? Didn’t KS also want Joe williams and Lynch did not. Why do I get the feeling Pettis is also a KS favorite. This is turning into a problem
    4. Edge has been an issue for several years.
    5. Garcon was a mistake.
    6. Must draft smarter and pull the trigger on FA when they are available. Too much fiddle faddle.

  25. Lets see! Everyone expected them to lose. They gave the Niners a slim chance if any of even being in the game. Yet for some players and the team their whole effort is defined by one or two ineffective series. No team is consistent enough to be able to go though a game with out any 3 and outs. It was just that the Niners happened at the end of the game. The Packers had a lot of three and outs as well. Rodgers made some bad throws and if they had lost ( which was very possible) would anyone have stated that the game was too big for him. No. in fact some posters were making excuses for him- he was not 100%.. Well he was mobile enough at various times in the game. Had he made better throws they might not have had to make that comeback. No QB ever makes every throw or goes through any game making every optimum decision.

    Beathart made some really good throws throughout the game. His play was relatively consistent. Yet Grant points out a missed pass to the TE and that last under throw to Goodwin. They were both bad passes but no QB goes through a game not making bad passes. Rodgers surely didn’t and he is arguable the best in the league right now. The majority of QB’s in the league often do not come through at the end of games. They are playing because there are not better players available. To expect them to play without making errors is unrealistic. To expect back ups and young players to do so is even more so.

    The practice of cherry picking individual plays is usually done to fill an agenda or spin a narrative. Usually it’s an ” I told you so” one. Or it’s an unrealistic reaction by spoiled entitled individuals who function in immediate gratification mode. Brings to mind the spoiled girl in ” Willy Wonka” who wanted her own goose that lays golden eggs. She sings this song about wanting the whole world now, but she is a bad egg.

  26. Saleh must go! No one is getting better on defense and the scheme is confusing for these youngsters. Either teach it better, simplify it or get lost. That first half, Packer WR’s were running around with no one near them. Then in crunch time you have Mabin on their best WR, Adams? Really!

    1. I think Hafely should get sacked, and Saleh another year. My understanding is that they only have roughly a dozen defensive plays in their book, so it can’t get any simpler….

      1. I know its a rebuild, Ive been saying that all year. You are the one who needs a diaper change, always crying about this or that. The funny thing is you are not even a fan of the team so why are you wasting those tears?

    2. The defense adjusted – got out of zone and went to man while emptying the bag on pressure calls – and shut the Packers down for two quarters. That shows they can play it effectively. The problems arise when miscommunications happen or somebody has a brain cramp. It happens, especially with a young team, but if they can actually keep the same group on the field and keep playing together week after week, those issues will decrease. This is where you have to have patience and understand the situation.

      1. I complained about Hafley not coaching deep to short because they routinely let receivers get behind them, plus I’ve yet to see these corners other than Sherman turn and look for the ball….

        1. On most of those throws where the receivers got beyond the LB’s, it was a simple case of them not getting deep enough in their drops and keeping their eyes in the back field too long instead of playing the receiver. Rodgers is a master at manipulating with his eyes and got them a few times.

  27. Rollo. how can they draft smarter? who will be the one deciding who gets drafted? KS, JL, JY? Niners need help starting from the top down. and even if the talent in the draft is there, it seems they draft players without talent or little talent. they even trade to get back ups or maybe not even to be buck ups. if this season is becoming to be a tryout season why not give Mullens a chance. Just saying.

    1. Smart. He’s got nothing left to prove at the collegiate level. He checks out medically, and he’ll be the 1st pick.

  28. Everything is always black and white around here. Zero context which is completely missing so much in the outcome of a game.

    Why didn’t they run more in the 4th quarter? Well if you look at the 3 possessions they had in the 4th quarter it will tell you why. First possession started at their 4 yard line. They ran the ball on the first play for no gain. Packers were crowding the LOS so no surprise that was the case. Second down they ran a boot with a pass to Jus. Smart low risk play to try and get to a manageable 3rd down, but the Packers sniffed it out and went for no gain. So on 3rd down they are facing 3rd and 10 from the 4 yard line. The Packers are playing run all the way and the Niners need to get out of the shadow of their own end. Pass to Garcon for 9 yards. Good play but came up short.

    2nd possession: At this point the goal is to keep the clock moving with a 7 point lead and 4 mins remaining. First play is a run that loses a yard. Again Packers know what the intent is and are loading up to stop it. They also start taking timeouts so running the ball is not a good strategy here. Passes are called on 2nd and 3rd down with Beathard not throwing it either time, 3rd down play was a jailbreak for a sack. The result of the plays kept the clock moving forcing the Packers to use all their TO’s which is the same result if they had run the ball 3 times.

    3rd possession: 1:55 on the clock, Packers have no TO’s and you need to get into FG position. They need about 20 yards to make that happen. First play goes to Kittle for a good gain and they let the clock run. 2nd play is incomplete to Garcon but they still are in good shape with a 3rd and 3. This is where the young backup QB made a young backup mistake. At that point you need to go with a high percentage option for the first down. Shanahan said there were 4 options on the play and the deep shot was the last one you take in that situation. Beathard saw Goodwin would be 1 on 1 down the seam and went for it. He lost and we all know what happened after that.

    So when looking at the lack of run calls in the 4th quarter, there is a very good reason for it and the complaints are redundant. You play the situation you have in the game and they did just that.

    It sucks that they lost especially in light of how well they played for a good portion of the game, but the reasons are not Black and White. They rarely ever are. What I saw was a young team expected to lose by pretty much everybody go into Lambeau and play well enough to win, but the best QB in the game found the weakness’ – lack of contain on the pass rush and Greg Maybin – along with a gift from the officials on a play where they would have had to punt, and the Niners are on the wrong side of another Aaron Rodgers comeback. I think grades are silly and in this case moreso because at this point it’s all about improvement and compete level, at least for me, and the Niners showed that in spades. For all the complaining about Coaching, and the team playing undisciplined, they showed up, played hard and came up short to the best in the game. Great game to watch and if they build off this moving forward, it was worth it.

          1. Yep, like looking all the way back to Shanahan’ SB loss.

            Ironic that past wins/losses are meaningless except for the SB loss that some have placed directly on Shanahan.

    1. It’s hilar that you think the comments about not running the ball in the 4th are being made without taking the situation into account.

      That last possession definitely called for a run or boot action on 2nd down. Yeah they needdd to move 20-25 yards for a FG with less than 2 minutes left but they held all of the cards to dictate how that time would go. Instead they folded.

      Terrific game, rough finish offensively.

      1. It’s even more hilarious that you always come in here after a game with a belief that you knew the right play call. There was no need for a run or boot. The Packers had played the boot perfectly earlier in the quarter and a run there is likely putting them in an obvious passing situation on 3rd down. Throwing it on second down from the shot gun was the right move. It put Beathard in his most comfortable position and spread the Packers out a bit to create options. It didn’t work out so here you are complaining again. You have turned into the Monday morning QB guy and it’s really sad because you used to be one of the better contributors here.

        1. “The Packers had played the boot perfectly earlier in the quarter”

          Are you referring to the first possession of the first quarter when they completed the pass to Juice for no gain?

          Just want to make sure that we’re on the same page.

          “It put Beathard in his most comfortable position and spread the Packers out a bit to create options.”

          It also telegraphed pass, was well covered by the D and was batted down, just like a couple of similar plays were earlier in the game.

          “You have turned into the Monday morning QB guy and it’s really sad because you used to be one of the better contributors here.”

          I’ve always commented on the play calling after a game. Nothing new, only difference is now you don’t care for what’s being said.

          What’s funny is that there were a number of times through the game that I was saying this stuff to the person I was watching the game with well before it happened.

          Thought Shanny called a very good game for the most part. Just struggles late for some reason. I think he gets impatient at the end. Not sure, but it’s been a trend for him of late.

            1. In other words, Beathard has a very bad habit of TELEGRAPHING where he is going with the football.

              Beathard simply isn’t good enough, IMO. He can’t make clutch plays, and if your going to make a living as a starting QB in the NFL, you have to make those clutch throws.

              Beathard misfired badly on the 2 biggest pass plays in last night’s game. It’s what he does!

              1. 49……………

                I personally find your football reasoning pretty excellent-I do, that is. Can’t speak for the others.

                Having said that, Beathard deserves another yr or so before final judgement is made i.e. does he learn from his mistakes? Jury should not be called in……..Yet.

            2. “The passes were batted because Beathard wasn’t savvy enough to move or pump fake.”

              There is no time to move or pump fake on that quick slant route

          1. Are you referring to the first possession of the first quarter when they completed the pass to Juice for no gain?

            It was the 4th quarter and yes.

            It also telegraphed pass, was well covered by the D and was batted down, just like a couple of similar plays were earlier in the game.

            So what? You need to gain big yardage and putting Beathard in shotgun is where he is most comfortable. The pass got batted down. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t a play to be made.

            I’ve always commented on the play calling after a game. Nothing new, only difference is now you don’t care for what’s being said.

            It’s not about not caring for what’s being said. I’m fine with criticism if it’s warranted. You have become a Monday Morning QB. You are simply coming in and complaining about plays that didn’t work or that they didn’t run the ball. That was a hell of a game last night with a lot of good stuff from the Niners in a game nobody thought they had a chance to win and here you are complaining because they didn’t run a boot on second down. You have become myopic in your thought process Jack. Stuff didn’t work so it’s bad. Team didn’t win so Coaching was bad. You are better than this, or at least you used to be.

            1. “So what? You need to gain big yardage”

              No they didn’t. They needed to get a first down. They had 3 timeouts and more than enough time to gain 20 yards to get into field goal position.

              The goal should have been to either get into position to kick a FG as time expired or make sure Rodgers didn’t have time for another possession.

              “That was a hell of a game last night with a lot of good stuff from the Niners in a game nobody thought they had a chance to win and here you are complaining because they didn’t run a boot on second down.”

              No $h!t rocket. I’ve said that it was a very well called game by Shanny. It also was game mismanagement at it’s finest on the final possession.

              If that comes off as myopic to you, then oh well.

              1. No they didn’t. They needed to get a first down. They had 3 timeouts and more than enough time to gain 20 yards to get into field goal position.

                I’m talking about the situation they were in as far as needing to get close enough for a FG. The second down play looked like it was a slant to Garcon which was a good call there. You focused on the tip, along with the fact you thought the play call needed to be a run or a boot which is just second guessing with no idea of whether that would have worked better or not. They had been stuffed on their last two run calls and got nothing on the PA boot to Juice so your opinion on what should have been called there was questionable at best especially considering they got 7 on first down out of…..the shotgun. How come the shotgun worked on first down when they were telegraphing a pass then too?

                The goal should have been to either get into position to kick a FG as time expired or make sure Rodgers didn’t have time for another possession.

                That was the goal. They got 7 on first down , bled the clock down and were looking short on 2nd down. Still left them with a manageable 3rd and 3 and a chance to keep the clock moving. The mistake was Beathard taking the lowest percentage option available to him trying to win the game on one play. It was a poor decision, but doesn’t mean the play calling was incorrect. As I’ve been saying for a few days now, you and a few others are reacting to poor execution and end result and lumping it into criticism of Coaching. Coaches call plays and players execute them. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the play calls on that last possession. The problem was execution.

                No $h!t rocket. I’ve said that it was a very well called game by Shanny. It also was game mismanagement at it’s finest on the final possession.
                If that comes off as myopic to you, then oh well.

                Your focus is on a second down play call that didn’t decide the game. You think it was game mismanagement to call a play out of a formation that worked the play before. That is myopic. You have become Mr. Monday Morning QB complaining about the results wrapped up in complaints about play calling and Coaching. Congrats.

              2. Hey, Rocket. Do you think Kyle Shanahan mismanaged the Super Bowl, or did his players fail to execute?

              3. They had been stuffed on their last two run calls.”

                It was the same play both times. A fullback lead to the left side of the formation. So predictable.

              4. “Your focus is on a second down play call that didn’t decide the game.”

                The focus is on the 2nd down play because that was the down to try a run or boot that would keep the clock rolling. There was no need to rush, they had timeouts and could dictate the end game.

                “You think it was game mismanagement to call a play out of a formation that worked the play before.”

                No, I think it was game mismanagement by not running or calling a PA boot which would have a higher percentage of keeping the clock rolling. I didn’t like the formation because it telegraphed pass and allowed the D to focus on the pass. I didn’t like the call of quick slants because the Packers had already knocked down a couple of passes on similar play calls earlier in the game, all on the left side too.

                “You have become Mr. Monday Morning QB complaining about the results wrapped up in complaints about play calling and Coaching. Congrats”

                Thank you.

              5. No question …. Matt Ryan choked away the Super Bowl. He was the perverbial “deer in headlights”, frozen, and failed to execute with the game on the line.

              6. Oh please, Kyle absolutely did blow the SB. Don’t be Shanapologists. Sure there was plenty of blame to go around (defense, blocking, and Ryan), but they were in FG range when a FG would have sealed a victory.

                But last night’s game and the SB were different situations. I mentioned last night that our last two carries had netted -1 YD and that GB was selling out against the run because they were desperate. They were desperate because our offense dropped 30 on them.

              7. The fact that a backup quarterback dropped a 30 burger on Pettine’s defense really isn’t all that surprising.

              8. Hey, Rocket. Do you think Kyle Shanahan mismanaged the Super Bowl, or did his players fail to execute?

                Both. He should have been running the ball, but Ryan also added to the problem by taking a sack on a play he knew he needed to get rid of the ball on. He also fumbled earlier in the half. I like aggressiveness and I think I even saw some of the logic in doing it right after the SB, but Shanny needed to run the ball in that situation.

              9. Grant: What about Atlanta’s defense in the SB? KS was the OC, so he had no control whatsoever of the defense. I just don’t get why people ignore the Atlanta defensive problems in that game: esp. since Quinn was the DC with the Seahawks.

              10. “What about Atlanta’s defense in the SB? “

                What about it? Like Razor said they ran out of gas. They were on the field almost the whole 4th quarter.

                The reason Shanahan takes the heat is they had the ball in FG position to go up 2 scores, and instead of running the ball and staying in FG range he called back to back passes and the resulting holding penalty and sack took them out of FG range and gave the Patriots life.

                So while the D was struggling, he helped keep NE in the game.

              11. The Atlanta defense was on the field all second half because they couldn’t make a stop. They allowed scoring drives on 4 out of 5 possessions in the second half. No doubt Shanny should have run the ball, but the main reason the Falcons lost that game was their second half defense.

              12. “No doubt Shanny should have run the ball, but the main reason the Falcons lost that game was their second half defense.”

                After going up 28-3 with 8:31 left in the 3rd quarter the next 3 Falcons offensive possessions took a total of 6:01, and included two 3 and outs netting a total of -17 yards. The two three and outs took a total of 3:45 off the clock.

                The drive in which Shanahan is questioned was the only one that netted positive yardage after going up 28-3.

                His play calling took 3 very likely points off the board considering how good Bryant was that year. Had they been up 31-20 the defense and comeback by the Patriots would have been an after thought.

                Shanahan screwed the pooch.

              13. So what? At that point they have a 25 point lead halfway through the 3rd quarter. The offense had done their job and the defense proceeded to allow 25 points on the next 4 possessions. That is a defensive meltdown and not from being on the field too long. The first two TD drives after going up 28-3 were a combined 12 minutes. Those are self imposed problems that had nothing to do with the offense. No doubt Shanahan should be criticized for not running the ball while moving in for the winning the FG, but they should never have been in that position to begin with. The defense fell apart in the second half and that was the main reason the Falcons lost.

              14. That’s the response I was waiting for.

                Doubt it. Sure seemed like you were phishing for a defense of Shanahan and I didn’t give you that. I’m not absolving Shanahan of blame, just saying the defense was more to blame. If they don’t collapse, the play calling doesn’t become an issue.

              15. You were careful, but then revealed just how incapable of criticizing Shanahan you are. Nothing ever is his fault in your eyes.

              16. “they should never have been in that position to begin with”

                They were up 8 and in position to go up 11 with less than 4 minutes to play and the offense botched it.

                Yes it falls on both sides of the ball, don’t think I’ve stated otherwise, but that sequence and much of the 4th quarter was bad offense by Atlanta.

              17. They were up 8 and in position to go up 11 with less than 4 minutes to play and the offense botched it.
                Yes it falls on both sides of the ball, don’t think I’ve stated otherwise, but that sequence and much of the 4th quarter was bad offense by Atlanta.

                I agree for the most part. The focus has been on the lack of run calls and I’m just saying that wasn’t the only thing responsible for the loss.

              18. Criticizing Shanny is fine and dandy, but he’s the best offensive mind we’ve had since Walsh. I prefer we hold on to him, and let him do his thing. By year 4 we’ll know whether or not to give him an extension….

              19. Where was his offensive mind during the four-minute drill on Monday?

                He’s a head coach, and he is judged on wins and losses. He has one win without Jimmy Garoppolo. Chip Kelly had two wins without Garoppolo. Jim Tomsula had five.

              20. Judging on wins and losses is fun, but it is a massive rebuild. Maybe it should be done on a curve, even though it’s not as fun. Chip Kelly? You’re comparing Shanny’s offense to Chip Kelly’s? Ha! You’ve got your ear close to UCLA. What do the boosters think of Chip Kelly?

              21. Shanahan isn’t judged just on his offense. He’s judged on his entire team, and it has one win in 14 tries without Garoppolo. Every coach has excuses.

              22. Yes. No one expects Shanahan to make the playoffs this season. But, people do expect him to win more than one game.

              23. You were careful, but then revealed just how incapable of criticizing Shanahan you are. Nothing ever is his fault in your eyes.

                I said it multiple times above. He should have ran the ball. He was wrong to keep throwing. That better? I also agreed with the criticism of his Red Zone offense earlier this year which seems to have been forgotten. I like the guy and think he’s a great offensive mind, but I’m supporting him because I don’t agree with the types of criticism he’s currently getting around here; not because he’s beyond criticism.

              24. Shanahan isn’t judged just on his offense. He’s judged on his entire team, and it has one win in 14 tries without Garoppolo. Every coach has excuses.

                Well there are excuses and there is also reality. He’s 22 games into his HC career and has had to deal with injuries to key players. Most teams in this league will suffer after losing their QB never mind all the others who have missed games. They played AZ without 2 of their top 3 WR’s, the backup QB and a banged up RB. There aren’t many established teams that could withstand that never mind one that is in year two of a rebuild.

              25. Lots of coaches deal with injuries to key players. Losing 13 of 14 without Garoppolo is under performing. Eventually, Shanahan must stop choking during close games.

              26. Lots of coaches deal with injuries to key players. Losing 13 of 14 without Garoppolo is under performing. Eventually, Shanahan must stop choking during close games.

                Losing is never a good look but I doubt there are many teams who could withstand the loss of their starting QB and not take a downward spiral. The Eagles did it with Foles, but he didn’t take over until late in the season and was not very good until the team got on a roll in the playoffs. The Packers were awful once Rodgers went down. The Colts went from a SB contender to the bottom of the draft when the lost Manning. The Broncos have been bad since Manning retired…and well you get the picture. Teams can survive injuries to some areas but when it’s the QB, that is often the end of any chance at a successful season.

                The fact it’s happened to a team early on in a rebuild is pretty much the end of any chance at improvement, at least on the W/L record last year.

              27. The Packers were 3-7 without Rodgers last season. Shanahan is 1-13 with Garoppolo. That’s not good enough.

              28. The Packers were 3-7 without Rodgers last season. Shanahan is 1-13 with Garoppolo. That’s not good enough.

                2 more wins for a team that has had the same coaching staff for a decade and more talent on the roster compared to a 2nd year HC in rebuild mode. That doesn’t help your argument.

        1. Prime,

          We are talking about a game that is done. It’s funny you want to say I’m “Mr Hindsight” when you are ripping Saleh for having Mabin cover Adams, hence using hindsight yourself.

          And it really wasn’t hindsight because I was saying to the person I was watching the game with that they needed to run at least once to bleed the clock even before it happened.

          1. You’ve been yammering every week that Shanahan should have done this and Lynch should have done that. Always after the fact. How easy and lazy of lazy to put that analysis forward!

            As for Mabin, anyone with half a brain knows it was a terrible decision to put a rookie on one of the best WR’s in the game in the 4th quarter against Rodgers. Come on man!

            1. “As for Mabin, anyone with half a brain knows it was a terrible decision to put a rookie on one of the best WR’s in the game in the 4th quarter against Rodgers.”

              Their choices were Mabin or Ward. Neither are good options. Who chose to have those guys? Was it Saleh or Shanahan/Lynch?

              And guess what, when Sherman covered Adams, Rodgers hit St Brown to get the ball into FG range. Who was covering St Brown?

              1. Yeah bad Shanny, fire him now, infact clean out the whole entire regime out.
                Bring back the shelf life coach Harbaugh! FI!

              2. Didn’t say to fire anyone. Instead of answering the question you go in a different direction because you know the answers aren’t what you want.

            2. Jack you are the last guy I am looking towards to provide me answers.
              I know the current situation of the team. I understand the vision and the approach here taken by the GM and coach. I also understand the unfortunate events that have occurred in the first part of this season.

              Now you can continue on your little tirade daily about what you dislike about Shananahan and play the hindsight card.
              I’ll just be here to remind you that you look like an ignorant Jackoramus doing it!

              1. “you are the last guy I am looking towards to provide me answers.”

                I’m not trying to provide you answers. I asked you questions and you didn’t answer. Went off on a different tangent instead.

              2. Who was covering St Brown?
                That question?
                Or the fact they chose to have Mabin and Ward.
                Either way you are gonna hit on some picks and free agents and some your not. That’s why I said it’s a rebuild with another 2-3 years to go.Evenntually adding more talent eliminates your role depth guys.
                Remember they took over a 2 win roster.

              3. “Remember they took over a 2 win roster.”

                How many wins does Shanahan have the last 2 seasons before the month of December?

              4. How many wins does Shanahan have the last 2 seasons before the month of December?

                Clearly not enough for impatient fans who think 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods should result in a record well above .500 or better. Just snap the fingers and become great right?

              5. “How many wins does Shanahan have the last 2 seasons before the month of December?”

                Nice cherry picking. A great way to not include the end of last season and to put the focus on the earlier parts where the team hadn’t/hasn’t gelled yet due to the roster turnover in each season. This cherry pick also includes Hoyer and CJ at QB for the most part.

    2. Maybe, since they were crowding the LOS, the Niners should have done something other than running into the teeth of the defense. Something totally unexpected.
      .
      Yes, we can nit pick and parse every play, but my overall feeling was that the Niners were playing not to lose, and lost. Maybe they should have played to win. Maybe they should have gone bold, and gone for it on 4th down.
      .
      However, thank you very much for a well reasoned, balanced perspective. At least you can present a cogent argument, and use cold logic and facts to bolster your position, even if we differ at times.
      .
      I agree, I hope this is a learning experience, and they can build off of this.

          1. To all of you negative people……….including Grant, who does precisely that to put food on the table..

            1) Shannylynch are STILL cleaning up the mess Baalke left…
            2) He’s dealing with some unprecedented injury situations to his main starters, and he does not have a
            deep enough team to overcome that-yet.
            3) He does not yet have all the players he wants, nor all the coaches he wants
            4) Bill Walsh did not hit a home run on every one of his draft picks-thats simply a statement of fact.
            5) And an amazing fact-Seb, Jack, Grant and others-I find it amazing that you blame KS for losing that
            game to the Pats, as if his offense did not score enough points–but never a word about the Head Coach or the DC. That says quite a bit right there, the logic your using, your real agenda………..
            With Seb, its understandable–he seriously wants to recreate ’68 and looks to Kap to be his cats-paw.

            6) All of your belly-aching is largely one-sided.

            7) I am eternally grateful that none of you are MY boss!!

    3. The play that is being questioned was that 2nd down play, and quite rightly. It was definitely a down they should have run the ball, given the situation.

  29. I am shocked that Rogers won a game in the last minute! It never happens.
    While it is disappointing the Niners loss the game, they played better than most of us thought they would.
    CJB is young and makes mistakes, but he does appear to learn and improve. For a backup, he is playing pretty well.
    The turn overs are of course a big problem on both sides of the ball. The offense turned it over twice and the Defense cannot seem to generate turn overs at all. The worst turn over ratio in the league is a huge problem.

  30. Hate is flowing strong with young Cohn and Pappa Hammer Cohn.

    Trying to run Shanahan out of town like Poppa tried with Walsh.

    The clicks will flow…. hate, hate, hate.

  31. Does anyone on this site look at things as glass half full,cause it seems everybody just complains constantly on here.sheesh you got to grow some how.i,m gonna leave everyone with one of my favorite quotes(good decisions come from experience,most experience comes from bad decisions.)

  32. Grade on Beathard is way too harsh. The kid had a 115.3 rating in the game. By far this was Beathards best game as a pro. He did miss throws and made a bad read in the 4th qtr but I didn’t think it was a C performance. I’d put him at a B- or maybe even a B. This game was Beathards 8th game to start as a pro so I think there are great signs that he can be a viable backup for the 49ers for some time.
    RB grade is good. Breida had a good game and he showed the team he is a tough customer who cares about being on the field. Just playing in this game for Breida sent a huge message to the rest of the offense. I’m really beginning to like this kid.
    On the defensive side, the secondary is just awful. Tartt and Colbert look lost to me. I honestly don’t see what Saleh sees in them. They can both hit but they can’t cover. Colbert routinely takes awful angles. Everyone in the secondary except Sherman is a huge liability. Kinda interesting that it was Sherman who got the penalty that kept the final drive alive.

        1. I liked the McGlinchey pick and like it more each week.

          I said at the time of the draft that Mt. Mike would become a pro-bowl player before all the other players that were being touted at the time.
          McGlinchey has a good chance to validate my comment.

          Next April we find our Edge and CB.

        1. You don’t know Savage Garden? They were an Australian pop group (actually I think it was just two of them from memory) from the 90s. They actually lived not far from me.

          Tbh I found their music pretty annoying!

          1. No, I don’t listen to that kind of music. I was just wondering, so as to give some insight into your musical taste. Thanks!

              1. Yea, sorry. The only radio station I listened to was KNAC back then, and I was never a saloon fly.

  33. I’ve now rewatched the game, and here’s my thoughts:
    – This was a very entertaining game in which both teams at different stages had the upper hand and momentum. The 2nd and 3rd quarters were owned by the 49ers. But the 1st and 4th quarters were the Packers. The 4th quarter was actually pretty even with both Ds playing well up until the last few minutes.
    – By and large the offense played well. The running game was great once again, and it is clear the investment in the OL is paying dividends. The passing game was also pretty good, with the return of Goodwin making a clear difference. There were a few bad plays, such as the fumble, the INT and the Kittle overthrow. But for the most part it was good. The pass protection was also very good most of the game.
    – Aside from Goodwin, the 49ers WRs aren’t very good. Maybe Pettis turns out alright, but Garcon is not much of a threat anymore and his “heir apparent” Bourne doesn’t look like a guy that will ever be much of a threat. James was a non-factor. This team’s passing game atm basically revolves around Goodwin, Kittle and Juice.
    – The D was a bit Jekyll and Hyde. The 1st quarter was pretty bad. They improved considerably from there but still had some ordinary moments. There are still too many instances where guys are clearly not playing their assignment. That play where the Packers had 4 receivers bunched and the 49ers had only 2 defenders on them was amateurish.
    – The pass rush had its moments in this game too. Much like it has been all year. They generate a decent amount of pressures but have a hard time converting that into big plays. The DL in particular seemed to play pretty well, across the board.
    – The CB opposite Sherman is a problem. Hasn’t mattered who it is all season. This time it was Ward and Mabin getting picked on. I can only assume ‘Spoon is still dealing with an injury. They need to get him back out there. Not because he was playing better, but because he’s the guy they need to see and evaluate over the remaining games this season.
    – Much like last week, this was a game that, overall, the 49ers were probably the better team on the day. But they turned the ball over while the opposition didn’t, and that was pretty much the difference in the end.
    – Its also been something of a consistent theme for this team to get themselves in the game, give themselves a shot, but not be able to make the plays that matter. Been doing it all season, with the exception of the KC game. We applauded their efforts during a 5 game losing streak early last year, but it was pretty much the same thing then too. When the game is on the line, this team panics and makes errors. And unfortunately that seems to start at the top.

    1. It’s the product of inexperience and youth. Let’s not forget Shanny is new at this as well.
      It’s gonna be growing pains for awhile. The easy solution is add more talent. Talent wins in this league and masks a lot of problems.

      1. When you are consistently putting yourself in positions to win and the better team on the day in quite a few games, at some point the lack of talent argument falls flat. They didn’t lose to the Cardinals due to lack of talent. They didn’t lose to the Packers due to lack of talent.

        Placing the blame on youth is a nice way to argue the issue away too, but it isn’t just the young guys making mistakes.

        This team just doesn’t have a winning mentality right now.

        1. “This team just doesn’t have a winning mentality right now”

          And that’s what young teams need to do. Learn to win.

          “They didn’t lose to the Packers due to lack of talent”

          Davante Parker versus Greg Mabin is a talent issue. Aaron Rodgers versus C.J. Beathard is a talent issue.

          The 49ers have been losing because of a turnovers, injuries and inexperience.
          You think it’s because of coaching? I’d say Robert Saleh but who else?

        2. Scooter,

          It absolutely is a talent issue. It’s not the only reason but it’s a big one. Colbert is a 7th round pick who has struggled but continues to play because they have nobody better. Mabin is a borderline NFL player yet is playing at the end of a tie game vs. the best QB in the game. It is a big talent issue.

          Offensively this team is outperforming it’s talent, at least when not turning the ball over. Defensively they are playing about as well as can be expected with what they lack.

          A winning mentality is great but you have to have the talent to win first.

          1. Rocket you and I have not seen eye to eye too much but I agree with you here. This is a talent issue as evident last night in the last 2 minutes.

            The NFL has always been a game of chess. In the end Mike McCarthy exploited an inexperienced and less talented corner versus his best wide receiver. That was the game.

            1. It’s an even bigger issue without Garoppolo Prime. A Franchise QB can cover up some talent deficiencies as we saw last year, but they are now starting and relying on backups in too many situations and don’t have the talent to overcome it.

              1. Breida and Mostert too. When we needed a long run or to move the chains late in the game neither guy could do it.
                Or how about a big possession receiver. We don’t have that.
                Point is we need an influx of more talent all across the board.

          2. If they are lacking so much talent, how were they winning by 7 with only a few minutes to go?

            I’m not trying to suggest this is a highly talented team, but it is far from talentless either. Which is why they have been the better team for long stretches of the game the past two weeks.

            1. If they are lacking so much talent, how were they winning by 7 with only a few minutes to go?

              Because they were facing a lesser GB team than past years, they have arguably the best offensive mind in the game and were able to keep GB in a lot of 3rd and long situations by playing the run well and not allowing the big play in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

              I’m also not saying they’re talentless. They have talent, just less than most teams they are playing and at key positions.

            2. There’s talent but not enough at the critical positions. When it comes down to it and it’s a one possession game,you need your big time talent to come through. And that’s at quarterback, corner back , WR,and edge rusher. Probably the 4 most important positions in football. I’d add oline but that’s more of a unit.

              Last night perfect example. Aaron Rodgers Clay Matthews, Davante Parker, and the CB’s name I don’t remember his name who made the interception. Those 4 guys came through in the clutch.

              1. “The 49ers talent came through until Sherman got penalised.”

                But Sherm is part of the 49ers talent. Sherm basically said that GB and Rodgers were likely to get a call like that late.

                “After that call how many more catches did Mabin give up?”

                Spoon and Ward were hurt at that point. But why doesn’t Saleh put two defenders on Adams after GB moved him away from Sherm?

      1. Yes, but I am assuming he isn’t the starting CB because he is still dealing with an ankle injury. Otherwise it doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to have pulled him from starting duties.

        1. I think he’s not starting because he’s played poorly, of course his injury could be partly to blame for his performance so far. While Colbert rightly got ripped for blowing his assignment early on against Az, Witherspoon got toasted on that play.

          1. Witherspoon was playing outside trail technique that play. He did his job. Colbert didn’t. Sure, would be nice if he stayed a but closer in coverage on the play, but if Colbert does his job then nobody would be saying anything about Witherspoon that play.

            Obviously Spoon has had his struggles this season. But he was fine week 1, and it was reported he was injured week 2. So I think it is fair to say the injury hampered him to some degree. Thus why I can only assume he is still injured or it doesn’t make much sense to have him still benched.

              1. Yes, but on a play in which he actually had good coverage. Great throw, great play by the WR. It does happen.

              2. He’s been taught to not turn his head around unless he’s got good enough coverage. He didn’t have good enough coverage on that play.

                “Great throw, great play by the WR.”

                Not a great play by Spoon.

              3. Actually he had good coverage on that play. Eric Crocker on Better Rivals (and an ex NFL CB) explained it very well. Good coverage, did everything right, just got beat by a great throw and catch.

        2. “Actually he had good coverage on that play.”

          If he had good coverage, he would have turned his head around. He wasn’t outright terrible on the play but he got beat.

          “Eric Crocker on Better Rivals (and an ex NFL CB) explained it very well. Good coverage, did everything right, just got beat by a great throw and catch.”

          Richard Sherman (current NFL CB and has loads of experience in this kind of scheme) explained it better.

          “You’ve got to put yourself in a better position,” cornerback Richard Sherman said. “But you need to move on and that’s what he did. He did great after that play.”

          1. Fair enough, not going to argue with Sherman. Though it wasn’t a case of being soundly beat. Without a great throw that wasn’t a TD. And as Sherman said, aside from that play he was good.

            1. Yeah, I’m not saying he was soundly beat, but I wouldn’t call that particular coverage good. I actually mentioned his coverage wasn’t god awful after that game and that he gave up a similar TD last year, but got much better.

              It’s hard as a fan to say how much of his regression is due to injury. I hope it is just the injury. I still think he has a very high ceiling.

              1. I think he’s at least as talented as any other CB on the roster not named Sherman. And is most likely to develop into a good player. So I would like to see him out there as much as possible.

  34. Did I miss it, or why wasn’t the final interception reviewed? It was 50/50 at best, a turnover, and done with less than 2 minutes in the game. All auto-reviews, yet all I saw was the Packers line up quickly and snap. Did I miss that, or is there something stinky in Wisconsin (besides the cheese)?

  35. 49ers sign Tom Savage, release Cole Wick

    Shanahan had this to say about Savage during his Tuesday press conference.

    “Just looking at the guys out there, there’s one thing I always liked about Savage, from coming out of college. He’s got a strong arm. He’s a very tough player. He hangs in that pocket and plays the potion well. I was a fan of his coming out of college. He’s gotten to play in a number of NFL games so he’s been battle tested.

    Savage Highlights
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrPL1Skq1d0

  36. If this team is as talentless as some are making it out to be I don’t see how they can be competitive for a very long time.

    Personally I think they need some key additions, most notably edge rushers, but aren’t actually that far away from being quite a competitive team. Strangely, one of the guys protesting the loudest about the talent issue was agreeing with me when I said the same thing during the week. I guess attitudes change based on the agenda being pushed.

    They do need to improve their play in critical moments though.

    1. Here’s what you said above Scooter:

      When you are consistently putting yourself in positions to win and the better team on the day in quite a few games, at some point the lack of talent argument falls flat. They didn’t lose to the Cardinals due to lack of talent. They didn’t lose to the Packers due to lack of talent.
      Placing the blame on youth is a nice way to argue the issue away too, but it isn’t just the young guys making mistakes.
      This team just doesn’t have a winning mentality right now.

      I don’t think this team is that far away from being a playoff team with Garoppolo and a healthy group overall. That wasn’t the point however as you were saying last nights loss wasn’t due to a talent issue and more on a lack of winning mentality. I disagree as I said above because talent was clearly an issue last night.

        1. Sherman didn’t cost them the game. Mabin did and so did a lack of pass rush. This after the backup QB threw a bad pick. Talent definitely played a big a part in the loss.

              1. No you aren’t. You said they didn’t lose the game due to a lack of talent when they clearly did. Mabin is a borderline NFL player who had to play and they took advantage of him to move down the field and win the game. That doesn’t include the other questionable options in the Niner secondary and a lack of outside pass rushers which are areas the Niners also lack talent. You don’t develop a winning mentality without wins and you don’t win when you have injuries to your top players.

              2. You are putting the result entirely down to what happened after Sherman got penalised. Sure, after that play, having Mabin on an island was exploited. Begs the question of why he was left 1-on-1, but even so, they had other opportunities before that. Most notably having the ball around midfield at 2nd and 3. But also those fumbles early in the game cost points that proved the difference.

                The 49ers had the talent to win the game. But they didn’t.

              3. You are putting the result entirely down to what happened after Sherman got penalised. Sure, after that play, having Mabin on an island was exploited.

                No I just pointed to that as a clear example of where a lack of talent cost them.

                Begs the question of why he was left 1-on-1, but even so, they had other opportunities before that. Most notably having the ball around midfield at 2nd and 3. But also those fumbles early in the game cost points that proved the difference.
                The 49ers had the talent to win the game. But they didn’t.

                I never said they were talentless Scooter. That was a term you brought up. My point was simply that scheme played a big part in their success and yes mistakes cost them again but I don’t see a correlation with belief in themselves or not having a winning attitude. They lost at the end because of bad decisions and poor play.

              4. Passing on 2nd and 3 in that situation was inexcusable

                No it was what most teams do in that situation.

              5. Incorrect. Running the ball on 2nd and 3 would have taken 40 seconds off the clock and virtually ensured no worse than overtime for the 49ers.

              6. Incorrect. Running the ball on 2nd and 3 would have taken 40 seconds off the clock and virtually ensured no worse than overtime for the 49ers.

                Your thinking on this is really out of whack Grant. First off, you aren’t trying to take 40 seconds off the clock in that situation. You are still 20 yards away from FG range and have about 1:15 remaining. Running the ball at that point either puts you in a position where you get the first down and have to call a TO or go hurry up for the next play, or you don’t get it and call a TO because you still need time to get the rest of the yardage. The incomplete pass on second down wasn’t an issue because they still had 3rd down to run the clock down with a completion. The only reason they were in a situation to ultimately lose the game is because Beathard threw the pick.

                I guarantee you pretty much every team would be passing on second down in that situation. Makes no sense to run it especially when they had stuffed it the previous couple of times. First priority is getting into FG possession and you don’t accomplish that by running on second down and burning 40 seconds off the clock.

              7. Your guarantee means nothing. You’re wrong. Even Tim Ryan said today on the radio they should have ran on second-and-3, and he works for the team. I would rebut your other incorrect claims, but I don’t have time.

              8. I clearly laid out why your thinking was wrong. Your response is to say Tim Ryan agrees with you while the same situations played out every week agree with me. Next time you see a team playing to run the clock down to less than 30 seconds when they still have about 20 yards to get into scoring range you let me know.

              9. Rocket, I speak to coaches in the league. They agree with me on this issue. Ryan was just one example. You speak to no one in the league, yet talk about what most coaches would do. You have no clue. Stop pretending. Name one person who agrees with you.

              10. ” First off, you aren’t trying to take 40 seconds off the clock in that situation.”

                Of course you do. The worst possible result in that situation (aside turning the ball over in good field position) was giving the ball back to Rodgers with time. While you are playing to win, you also have to be cognizant of doing your best to ensure the opponent doesn’t get another chance to win it. A run play was definitely the smart option there.

                They were not far from FG range and had timeouts left.

              11. Rocket, I speak to coaches in the league. They agree with me on this issue. Ryan was just one example. You speak to no one in the league, yet talk about what most coaches would do. You have no clue. Stop pretending. Name one person who agrees with you.

                I’ve been a Coach for a long time and what does talking to anybody have to do with common sense strategy that happens every week anyway? Nobody runs the clock down to under 30 seconds when they are that far out of scoring range. That never happens. Every Coach in that situation wants to get into FG range first and foremost. You always worry about leaving time on the clock, but that is secondary to putting yourself in position to win the game. This scenario plays out every week Grant.

                Tell you what, if I have time I’ll go and look at as many games as I can that featured a team trying to drive for the winning score at the end of the game and see what the play calling was like and we can see how often it goes my way as opposed to yours.

              12. What level do you coach? Are you any good? What’s your record? I’ll take the word of the best coaches in the world over your’s.

                The 49ers had timeouts. There was absolutely no excuse to give the Packers the ball with more than 40 seconds left on the clock.

              13. Of course you do. The worst possible result in that situation (aside turning the ball over in good field position) was giving the ball back to Rodgers with time. While you are playing to win, you also have to be cognizant of doing your best to ensure the opponent doesn’t get another chance to win it. A run play was definitely the smart option there.
                They were not far from FG range and had timeouts left.

                I’ve already explained why you don’t to Grant.

              14. I played up to the small College level and Coached Pop Warner to H.S. ball. I’ve also been to many Coaching seminars not that it really matters. We aren’t talking about anything that isn’t common sense here.

                They gave the ball back to Rodgers with 40 seconds left because Beathard threw a pick Grant. What part of that is hard to understand? If he completes the pass to one of the shorter options, they get a first down and are still able to run the clock down while also getting into position to win with a FG. Why would you want to leave yourself in a position where you’ve run off most of the clock and you still have 15-20 yards to go to get into comfortable scoring range?

                You’re also acting like I’m crazy for agreeing with something that an NFL HC just did on Monday night and many do every week. How many times have you seen a team score to take the lead and immediately the announcers go: “they might have left too much time on the clock.” This literally happens every freaking week because the priority is too score. If you can run out the clock all the better, but running out the clock before you are in position to score is pointless.

              15. That’s your issue, Rocket. You think what Shanahan does is right because he did it. You believe he is intrinsically good, and work backward from there. I judge him only on his actions.

                Since you keep saying coaches always do what Shanahan did, give another example of an NFL coach calling three-straight passes in that situation.

              16. They gave the ball back to Rodgers with 40 seconds left”

                No they gave it back to Rodgers with 1:07 left. Those :27 seconds might not seem like much, but at :27 left to go in the game the Packers were still on their own 45.

                Shanahan not keeping the clock running on 2nd down cost his team the game by giving Rodgers more time.

              17. Every single person I’ve spoken to in the league says the right call was to run on second-and-3 in that situation. Rocket has his own sources, though.

              18. Just looked at last weeks games and there weren’t a lot of last minute wins but the NE/KC game came down to the last possession and facing a similar situation to Shanahan and the Niners – 51 seconds left and ball at the KC 48 with a QB on the other side who can move it down the field quickly. In your scenario they should have run the ball and taken time off the clock but they didn’t; they threw it. They threw the ball because it’s about getting into position to score first, clock second. I’ll look for some more when I get a chance but that was a good example of what Coaches do in that situation.

              19. They gave the ball back to Rodgers with 40 seconds left”

                My bad I was just reiterating what Grant said in regards to time.

                No they gave it back to Rodgers with 1:07 left. Those :27 seconds might not seem like much, but at :27 left to go in the game the Packers were still on their own 45.
                Shanahan not keeping the clock running on 2nd down cost his team the game by giving Rodgers more time.

                No it didn’t and this is just like saying the play calling in the SB is what cost the Falcons the game. It completely ignores everything else that contributed to it. As I pointed out above, they were still in position to run the clock with a completion on 3rd down. Then there was the penalty call to keep the Packer drive alive and a lack of contain allowing Rodgers to run for 20+ yards.

                You’ve watched and Coached a lot of football Jack. Are you seriously trying to tell me most Coaches aren’t throwing the ball in that situation trying to get into scoring position? I’m not referring to what you told your friend during this game. I’m talking about what you see happen in these situations most of the time.

              20. “Are you seriously trying to tell me most Coaches aren’t throwing the ball in that situation trying to get into scoring position?”

                I’m saying they should have run the ball on 2nd down to keep the clock running and Rodgers off the field.

                I don’t care about what other teams are doing. This team needs to have things played closer to the vest, just like how he played the end of the 1st half by playing it conservative a bit to stay in FG position.

                This whole, “they had to pass” stuff doesn’t hold up considering they had timeouts and GB didn’t. There was no need at all to hurry. They had the end game in their hands and Shanahan handed it to Rodgers with his play calling.

              21. I didn’t say they had to hurry. I said it didn’t make sense to take 40 seconds off the clock after running on second down in that situation. That was Grant’s premise and it never happens. You never see a team running the clock down to well under a minute when they aren’t even in scoring position yet, at least I haven’t.

              22. You might not have said they needed to hurry, but yesterday you said, “So what? You need to gain big yardage” even though they only needed about 16 yards at that point to be in FG range.

                My bad.

              23. “Every single person I’ve spoken to in the league says the right call was to run on second-and-3 in that situation.”

                Yep.

                Why do you think people are making excuses for Shanahan that they wouldn’t make for other coaches before him?

              24. That’s your issue, Rocket. You think what Shanahan does is right because he did it. You believe he is intrinsically good, and work backward from there. I judge him only on his actions.

                You threw the same accusation at me a couple of days ago and I pointed out to you how I agreed that Shanahan had been wrong not to run the ball in FG during the SB and also how I agreed that his offense has historically struggled in the RZ. You said “Fair enough.” Now we are back to the same accusation. I’ve never accused you of not judging Shanahan on his actions, I just don’t agree with your criticism. I think it’s a case of reaction to the final result instead of how it happened. You are not alone in that.

                Since you keep saying coaches always do what Shanahan did, give another example of an NFL coach calling three-straight passes in that situation.

                I can find similar situations pretty easily just by looking at each weeks summaries.

                Week one:

                Steelers and Cleveland – Game is tied at 21, Steelers have the ball at their 31 with 1:52 to go. They throw 3 straight passes and give it back to the Browns with 1:37 left.

                GB down 23-17 to the Bears with 2:39 left in the game. 3 straight passes score a TD to take the lead and leave more than 2 minutes on the clock.

                Week 2:

                NO vs Cleveland – Cleveland has the ball with 2:40 left. 6 straight passes, score the go ahead TD and leave 1:16 on the clock. NO gets the ball back throws on 1st down to get to their 33 and face 2nd and 2 with 53 seconds left, throw it deep and complete for a gain to Cleveland 25. Right after getting into scoring position, then they call a run to burn clock.

                Week 4:

                Colts vs. Texans – Colts have the ball down 31-23 with 2:58 left. Call 8 straight passes, the last one coming with a 1st and goal with 2 TO’s and 45 secs left on the clock. They didn’t run the ball to try and burn clock or make Houston take their last TO. They went for the TD because that is the priority in that situation.

                Week 5:

                Ravens vs. Browns – Ravens have the ball on the Browns 30 down 9-6 with 2 mins remaining. They throw 5 straight passes while already in FG position. They tie it up while leaving 52 seconds on the clock.

                Giants vs. Panthers – Giants have the ball down 30-24 with 2:16 on the clock, throw 4 straight passes including a first and ten at the 15 with 1:08 on the clock.

                There’s a few examples of teams throwing even when you feel they should probably run the ball to take time off the clock. Throwing the ball until you get into scoring position is a regular occurence in the game today Grant. Shanahan throwing it 2nd and 3 in that situation was an attempt to keep the tempo going get a 1st down to hopefully stay out of 3rd down and try to get into scoring position at which time you then take the clock all the way down before kicking the winning FG. It didn’t work mainly because of the pick on 3rd down, but there was nothing wrong with the play calling.

    2. Scooter,
      Talent takes time to develop. We may already have foundational players that could become cornerstone types in the next few years.

      In games that we’ve played there were times that getting to the QB could have made a huge difference in the outcome.
      We will get our Edge (maybe two) next year.

      1. Yes, I agree. I just don’t think simplifying things down to “lack of talent” or “youth” fully explains the losses. There is talent on the team. They are more talented than the Cards. They were talented enough to put themselves in position to beat GB (who themselves have some talent and youth issues).

        Personally I think this is a good sign in many ways. I just believe there is some issues with the team’s handling of key moments that needs to be cleaned up.

        1. My take is talent masks a lot of variables in football. Teams are picking on our secondary outside of Sherm because they lack big play capability.
          Teams are forcing us to pass Because we lack talent at the quarterback and wide receiver position.
          Teams are passing on us more than rushing because we lack talent on the edge.
          We add one or two premier players at any of those positions and we are .500 right now.

          1. Prime,
            Those two players were supposed to be Jimmy and Jerrick to help us get better as well, but things happen.
            But I agree, a top tier Edge needs to be drafted next year.

        2. Scooter,

          Yes, I agree. I just don’t think simplifying things down to “lack of talent” or “youth” fully explains the losses. There is talent on the team. They are more talented than the Cards. They were talented enough to put themselves in position to beat GB (who themselves have some talent and youth issues).

          It’s not the only reason, but it’s a big one. I agree there is talent on the team, but it’s in areas that aren’t having the biggest impact. There’s no QB or pass rusher that makes a difference currently on the roster. That is a huge obstacle to overcome and it comes into play at some point every game. I’m also not sure they are more talented than the Cards with their current active roster, in fact I’d probably give the edge to the Cards. Much like the discipline discussion of last week, there are different meanings and contexts when it comes to talent. You keep saying their talent put themselves in a position to win, but that isn’t the case all the time. Scheme is what does that quite often and is a big reason why there are upsets in any given week. If you compare the current Niner roster to most around the league right now, they are clearly near the bottom of the league. That changes when Garoppolo comes back and they hopefully add some Edge players and another CB, but right now that is the way it is.

          Personally I think this is a good sign in many ways. I just believe there is some issues with the team’s handling of key moments that needs to be cleaned up.

          I just see it differently than you I guess. You are attributing the team being close in games to talent, while I see it more as scheme. Shanahan has no name players for the most part playing well offensively and that is scheme more than talent imo. The defense is getting good contributions from their DT’s especially Buckner but the rest is young players trying to learn on the fly and guys who shouldn’t be on an NFL field playing due to a lack of depth. That’s why I just shake my head when I read all the complaints about Coaching every week. The only reason they even compete right now is because of Coaching and system.

          1. “The only reason they even compete right now is because of Coaching and system.”

            I guess this is what annoys me about this take on lacking talent. Attributing their success just to the coaches. Its bollocks. The offense is actually quite talented. Yes, Beathard is a backup QB, but he was a 3rd round pick that was hand selected by the coach. He clearly believes he has the talent to win games. They need another top line WR, but Goodwin is good, Kittle is good, Juice is good, the OL is good, Breida is good.

            On D they clearly need better edge rushers, and the CB opposite Sherman has been a problem. FS has also been an issue. Though it is hard to know if that has been a talent issue, or just an experience issue. But aside from that the D is fine.

            The 49ers are far from the only team with glaring holes. The Cards are really bad. GB is making do with a lot of holes as well. Fine, you can argue its because of players at key positions, and that is definitely an issue. But when you put yourself in a position to win a game but fail to close it out, blaming it all on the players (and saying the only reason they were in it was the coaching) just seems like a nice way to write off any loss. No way should they have lost to the Cards, and a team that believes in itself I think closes out the game against GB.

            1. That last sentence was harsh I admit. I will retract. It’s not the only reason but it is a big reason much like the lack of talent is a big reason they lost in GB.

              Beathard is a backup QB. That’s all that needs to be said. They went into GB with their backup QB and put up 30 points a week after the same QB was lambasted on here for turning the ball over 4 times. Goodwin is good, but he’s missed time due to injury. I like Kittle too but when you look at the offense as a whole it’s very thin and very reliant on scheme for success.

              On D they clearly need better edge rushers, and the CB opposite Sherman has been a problem. FS has also been an issue. Though it is hard to know if that has been a talent issue, or just an experience issue. But aside from that the D is fine.

              That’s almost half the defense Scooter. The Safety play as a whole hasn’t been good and the depth at CB and S isn’t good. The defense has some good depth at DT and ILB but not having an outside pass rush or secondary doesn’t mean the defense is fine in any fashion.

              The 49ers are far from the only team with glaring holes. The Cards are really bad. GB is making do with a lot of holes as well.

              The Cards are in similar position to what the Niners were last year except they have more talent and at key positions. They are breaking in a new Coaching staff and rookie QB, but they have talent at all levels of the defense which the Niners don’t. If you go through the two rosters right now, the Cards are the better one imo. GB is making do and not playing well overall. They lost to Detroit a week ago and almost lost at home on Monday night. They also have the best QB in football.

              Fine, you can argue its because of players at key positions, and that is definitely an issue. But when you put yourself in a position to win a game but fail to close it out, blaming it all on the players (and saying the only reason they were in it was the coaching) just seems like a nice way to write off any loss. No way should they have lost to the Cards, and a team that believes in itself I think closes out the game against GB.

              Well a lot of people seem to want to blame it more on the Coaches and I don’t see it that way. It’s never all one or the other, but when there is clear evidence like the backup QB throwing a pick and then one guy in the secondary giving up all the plays on the winning drive, that’s a player issue more than a Coaching issue. The loss to GB had nothing to do with whether the team believed in itself. If they didn’t believe in themselves they wouldn’t have been in position to win to begin with. Believing in themselves also doesn’t change the fact the best QB in the NFL is on the other side.

              As I said above, the Niners are not a more talented roster than the Cards right now and even so the Niners dominated every aspect of the game, yet lost because of TO’s. There was an attempt to blame those TO’s on Coaching but it’s a crock of sh*t. Players play, Coaches Coach.

              1. I don’t give Shanahan a pass on the talent or lack thereof because he is very involved and hands on with the construction of this roster.

                He’s winning/losing with his guys.

              2. He’s winning/losing with his guys.

                Garoppolo was his main guy and he doesn’t have him. If he had him a case could be made that the Niners would be on a 3 game winning streak right now and there would be no angst over the drafts and FA and perceived play calling issues, at least until the next loss anyway. You can’t just pass off the loss of the Franchise QB as an excuse. It’s the difference between winning and losing for this team as we saw clearly last year.

              3. I said a case could be made and it’s not farfetched to assume that Garoppolo would have played better than Beathard which would have been the difference in all 3 games.

              4. That would be going against what we’ve seen when Garoppolo was in there for the most part. They won 6 of the 8 games he started so the odds were real good he would have played well enough to win at least 2 of the past 3 games if not all of them.

              5. They won one of three this season, and Garoppolo almost gave away the one win. He choked and got bailed out. This team finds ways to lose every week, and that’s on the head coach.

                Last season’s five wins were meaningless because the 49ers were eliminated from the playoffs. The team had no pressure. Can’t choke if there’s no pressure.

              6. They lost to two of the better teams in the league on the road. He didn’t choke against Detroit. They had a big lead and almost choked it away but they didn’t. They were in position to win the last 3 games and lost due in no small part to mistakes by the QB. Garoppolo would have played better than Beathard which is likely the difference in winning and losing those games.

              7. Garoppolo absolutely did choke against Detroit. The holding call away from the play bailed him out.

              8. The 49ers did not lose the Chargers game because of Beathard. They lost it because their backup TE let a ball bounce off his shoulder pads for an int that was returned to inside the 10 and their ST allowed a punt that probably shouldn’t have happened be returned into FG range.

                Both of those fall on Shanahan because he a) chose Celek to be his #2 TE, and b) he was overagressive by throwing 3 straight times and forcing himself to call for the punt.

              9. The 49ers did not lose the Chargers game because of Beathard. They lost it because their backup TE let a ball bounce off his shoulder pads for an int that was returned to inside the 10 and their ST allowed a punt that probably shouldn’t have happened be returned into FG range.

                And Beathard threw two picks. He was a part of the reason the lost.

                Both of those fall on Shanahan because he a) chose Celek to be his #2 TE, and b) he was overagressive by throwing 3 straight times and forcing himself to call for the punt.

                We’ve argued these points to death. Celek has scored a TD in that position before so going to him there was not a bad decision. The 3 passing plays were an attempt to get into scoring position which was the right call. The return was the problem not the play calling before it.

              10. “And Beathard threw two picks.”

                Yeah and 1 was because Celek couldn’t catch a pass inside the 5 that hit him square in the hands and bounced off his shoulder pads.

                “The 3 passing plays were an attempt to get into scoring position which was the right call.” Not given the way the defense was playing at that time or an offense that had just taken 21 plays to go about 70 yards for a field goal.

                “The return was the problem not the play calling before it.”

                And the return wouldn’t have been necessary if Shanahan had played that situation properly.

              11. Sure and if you don’t ever throw the ball it will never get intercepted. That’s illogical Jack. You don’t make a decision based on wondering if another part of the team is going to screw up. You trust that if you don’t get the result you want the ST’s are going to pick you up and then the defense will do their job. That’s Football.

                I’m done for the day. Enjoy your evening.

              12. Appears you like aggressive play calling whether it hurts your chances of winning or not. Not sure how else to take these discussions.

                You have a good evening too.

              13. Appears you like aggressive play calling whether it hurts your chances of winning or not. Not sure how else to take these discussions.

                No that is not the case at all. Trying to get into FG position before the end of the half is pretty much a given in that situation and it didn’t hurt them as I’ve pointed out repeatedly. The punt return is what hurt them and they are two very different areas of the game. You are reacting to the final result and pointing at things you disagree with which is why I gave you the Monday Morning QB moniker. According to Grant that is considered name calling now so I apologize if it offended you.

              14. “The punt return is what hurt them and they are two very different areas of the game.”

                Yes they are, and my stance is that the situation was handled wrong and the punt team should not have been on the field.

                “You are reacting to the final result and pointing at things you disagree with”

                No. I was saying that it was wrong as it was happening because the defense was wobbling and I didn’t think the risk/reward was in the 49ers favor. Unfortunately it was the ST’s and not the D that set up the FG.

        3. “I just don’t think simplifying things down to “lack of talent” or “youth” fully explains the losses.”
          Scooter…

          I’m not espousing the idea that the team is losing solely on lack of talent. I’ve said that the blame should be distributed from the top to the bottom.

          But my perspective regarding the talent question is: Would Shanahan be 1-5 if he were coaching the Rams?
          My answer would be no.
          My next question would be why?
          My next answer would be because of the talent differential.

          Again, we have lost because of many reasons, but the talent difference is a real issue.

          Sure, Shanahan has drafted and assembled the team, but the majority of the team is still young and lacks game time experience.
          I’m not making excuses, just asserting my patience.

          1. I agree with being patient AES. I am not saying these things because I believe the coaches need to go or because I am fed up with the team. In fact even before the season started I thought they would do well to finish above .500, and more likely would end up with 6 or 7 wins. I’m not blind and I can see there are talent issues on the roster.

            I just take exception to the idea that the losses the past two weeks were due to talent. Obviously it would be a lot easier to win with better players. But the way the team has played has been good enough to win the games. They’ve just made crucial mistakes at critical moments. And it hasn’t just been the players. Giving the coaching a pass because of talent masks the fact there have been some coaching decisions worthy of critique.

  37. KS on the Niners’ final drive.

    “So, those three plays at the end, I knew it was the first time we had thrown it on first down in three consecutive series. I think we got a seven-yard gain to [TE George] Kittle over the middle. Then, the next second-and-three, I felt pretty strongly that they were going to come after us and bring more than we could handle in the run game, which usually leaves open a very good slant window. That’s what I thought was the best thing at the time. But, they tipped the ball.”

    “But, then when you get into third-and-three versus an all-out blitz, there’s not many runs for that.”

    “But, I thought we had a chance to win the game right there.”

      1. Alternate universe: Shanny calls three straight runs, bleeds the clock, and settles for OT.

        Grant mentions that the last two carries before that drive netted -1 yard. Seb chimes in and criticizes KS for running into the teeth of the defense that was selling out against the run. Grant and Jack rip KS for not trying to win a game on the road, and they wonder if KS is intentionally tanking.

        1. “Alternate universe: Shanny calls three straight runs, bleeds the clock, and settles for OT.”

          Nobody is saying that is what should have happened.

          1. So what are you saying?

            They should have ran it on 2nd & 3 and 3rd & 3 even though a pass set up 2nd/3rd & short and despite the fact that the run game went nowhere on the previous two drives because GB was going all out against the run?

            Or.

            Are you assuming that running on every play would net 1st downs and eventually get them in FG range despite the fact that run game went nowhere on the previous two drives because GB was going all out against the run?

            Or.

            Other?

            1. Jack Hammer says:
              October 15, 2018 at 11:37 pm
              That second down play call on the final possession. Perfect spot for either a run or PA boot and they go shotgun.

              Jack Hammer says:
              October 16, 2018 at 12:18 pm
              “Your focus is on a second down play call that didn’t decide the game.”

              The focus is on the 2nd down play because that was the down to try a run or boot that would keep the clock rolling. There was no need to rush, they had timeouts and could dictate the end game.

              Scooter_McG says:
              October 16, 2018 at 1:34 pm
              The play that is being questioned was that 2nd down play, and quite rightly. It was definitely a down they should have run the ball, given the situation.

              1. OK. But KS didn’t feel a run would work at that time, so running there would be KS giving up or settling for OT. How many times have we seen a team that isn’t in playoff contention go for 2 and the win instead of settling for an extra point to send the game to OT?

                PA boot? That takes time to develop, which could get snuffed out against a desperate and agressive D. It also limits the amount of options to throw to. But assuming all goes well schematically, what happens if CJ throws a bad incompletion like he already did earlier in the 4th? In that case, the clock is still stopped and Coach Hammer is in the same boat as Coach Shanahan.

              2. “so running there would be KS giving up or settling for OT.”

                No it’s not. He’d still have had 3rd down if they didn’t gain at least the 3 yards.

                “PA boot?”

                Yeah, There’s a reason that I said run first.

              3. Why would he ‘run’ a play that he felt wouldn’t work? I doubt he even wanted to get to 3rd down.

                “Yeah, There’s a reason that I said run first.”

                Read my first post about this, I said I would have ran too. But I can accept Kyle’s reasons for not running there. I even mentioned the lack of success on our last two carries. KS was trying to ‘run’ out the game. On the possession before the last two carries netted -1 YD, KS ran the ball 6 out 10 times, took 5:12 off the clock, and put points on the board. He ran the ball until it quit working.

              4. What I don’t understand is why Morris didn’t get some carries at the end there. I would have thought he could be just the type of back they needed with the D playing the run hard.

              5. “On the possession before the last two carries netted -1 YD”

                Yes, and both of those were on 1st down. Shanahan has a tendency to run more on 1st down and pass more on 2nd down anyway. After doing a good job of going against tendencies early on he fell back into that late in the game and the Packers were ready.

              6. “and the Packers were ready.”

                Ready or desperately selling out against the run, daring CJ to beat them?

                And wouldn’t GB have been “ready” for any run on that 2nd & 3 play?

              7. “Ready or desperately selling out against the run, daring CJ to beat them?”

                Not quite. They were in Nickle man on the play and it was a soft box with both inside backers lined up over the tackles.

                “And wouldn’t GB have been “ready” for any run on that 2nd & 3 play?”

                Not sure how you get that considering the 49ers throw more on 2nd down than run.

              8. “Not sure how you get that considering the 49ers throw more on 2nd down than run.”

                KS

                “Then, the next second-and-three, I felt pretty strongly that they were going to come after us and bring more than we could handle in the run game, which usually leaves open a very good slant window.”

              9. Yes, and both of those were on 1st down. Shanahan has a tendency to run more on 1st down and pass more on 2nd down anyway. After doing a good job of going against tendencies early on he fell back into that late in the game and the Packers were ready.

                He threw on first down on the last possession, so he did exactly what you are asking for as far as going against tendency. The funny thing about this is I don’t know many teams if any I’ve watched that wouldn’t be passing to get into FG territory with that much time left. They ran the 2nd down play with about 1:15 on the clock maybe? They had TO’s but it’s not like they had a ton of time to run the ball and keep the clock moving. You want to get yardage and keep the clock moving in that situation.

              10. “He threw on first down on the last possession, so he did exactly what you are asking for as far as going against tendency.”

                Right, and it was a 7 yard gain. On 2nd down he went right back to his tendency and the result was an incompletion with Perry getting his 3rd knocked down pass of the game, all on similar play calls.

              11. After going back and looking at the ratio on second down, it was actually pretty close so he didn’t show a tendency really. Of the 20 2nd downs they faced the ratio was 11:9 pass to run. Pretty balanced overall.

      2. Rocket,
        Yes they would.
        They would have just targeted a different issue to cry about.
        Or, they somehow would have found a way to bring up Shanahan’ Superbowl miscue.
        Some things die hard around here. I guess it takes big bollocks (🐘) to move
        on.

        1. You are probably right AES. Funny thing is I was the negative guy during the Tomsula and Kelly nightmare and many of the same people telling me about all these mistakes the current Coaching staff is making, argued in favor of those two.

          1. Rocket,
            Yes, I remember your thoughts at that time.

            But it didn’t take long for many here to see that the team at that time was being decimated by decisions made in the FO.
            I believe that words like “dumpster fire” and “dark ages” were used among others to describe the team back then.

            Maybe the fact that those kinds of descriptions aren’t being used today is a positive that we are moving in the right direction.

  38. Is it just me, or does it feel like we’re pushing a square peg through a round hole with our defense? I just don’t think that our personnel, in anyway, compliments the scheme we’re trying to run.

    1. We don’t have the pass rushers needed to get to the QB with 4 guys, allowing 7 to drop into cover 3 zones.

    2. We don’t have a reliable FS that can protect the middle of the field.

    3. We don’t have the CBs that can consistently execute the scheme and techniques we’re asking.

    4. We have the #3 overall pick as an edge run defender in base downs.

    5. We have a MLB (Malcoln Smith) moonlighting at Sam LB.

    This whole thing is crazy. We are much closer to being a decent man coverage team than a zone coverage team. I don’t think it’s necessarily Saleh’s fault. He just doesn’t have the players he needs to execute his vision.

  39. Is anyone else just happy the 49ers didn’t embarrass the fans with a normal 4 turnover game with 15 penalties, and injuries everywhere? I am. Why? Because I don’t expect anything from this team but building chemistry for next season.
    I really felt the season was over when JG went down. It sucked. In fact it was like a high school breakup. Stung a little, but life goes on and mistakes are learned.
    The day this team can go a game with maybe one turnover or zero is the day they pull out a win. And if they can actually put forth the effort of last night for 4 quarters.
    Gotta feeling they’ll hit a stride at the end of season like last year and it will bring hopes for 2019. I won’t hold my breath though.

    I’ll get playoff ready when they finally find a pass rush, a legitnemt threat to help Goodwin, an O-line that blocks every down, and nobody on the IR!
    Tall task, but it’s been done before.
    Just beat the Raiders for goodness sake, and maybe a Seattle win. That’s all I ask.

  40. Well it was a fun game to watch, cant have three turnovers and expect to win against Aaron Rodgers. After the Cards game I would say there was a marked improvement.

    1. When exactly did the elegant tank begin?
      Was it when Jimmy G went down?

      The term seems to suggest that the team is losing on purpose while giving the fans something to cheer about.
      If the Shanahan and the org are doing this they are complete shysters. Or geniuses if they get away with it.
      I don’t believe in either theory. But then again, Mabin’ play in the last series reminded me of a boxer taking a fall.
      Hmm?

      1. It’s just a bit of fun AES. Not a theory. I am pretty sure nobody believes they are losing on purpose. Basically, in a blown season the “best” outcome (at least in most fans eyes) is to play well enough to lose by the barest margins each week. So when it happens, like the past two weeks, it’s part of the “elegant tank”.

        1. Scooter,
          Thanks bud for helping me see this in a different light.

          The thought or any suggestion of losing on purpose to gain (in this case) a high draft pick does not fit my MO.

      2. It began the second JG fell down.
        .
        It is elegant because the Niners may present a capable team, and they may try hard to win, but like the Packer game, the Niners snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
        .
        Why? Because, since the playoffs are a distant memory, the best way for the Niner to improve is to get as high a pick as possible in the draft.
        .
        The trick is to look like they are trying to win, like signing a veteran QB. However, they did not sign the highest rated QB possible, so some may say they are not doing everything in their power to win.
        .
        The problem is- all the losing will be bad for the fans, and they will not be happy campers. Then, if they do manage to win, others will be angry for ruining their draft position.

  41. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17899388/actually-take-points-throwing-football-unwritten-rules-nfl-2016

    “Today’s game is different. Quarterbacks routinely throw bubble screens and other short passes designed to get the ball out quickly, and their success rate on those throws is remarkable: They complete 70.9 percent of their passes within five yards of the line of scrimmage and throw interceptions 1.1 percent of the time. That’s similar to the fumble rate on rushing plays since 2012 (1.2 percent, although only 0.7 percent are lost to the opposition).”

    “Repeat: Many passes are high-percentage plays.”

    1. Too bad Perry had knocked down 2 similar throws earlier in the game, and this was the 3rd. Bummer. Damn percentages.

      1. Bummer that you missed the point.

        “Repeat: Many passes are high-percentage plays.”

        And that’s not just talking about one kind of short pass.

        “Too bad Perry had knocked down 2 similar throws earlier in the game,”

        Yet you advocate running the ball when the last two carries went for no gain and -1 yard. Bummer.

        1. Yes, 2 runs both on 1st down which his a high % run down for Shanahan.

          On 1st he went against tendency and picked up 7. On 2nd he went with tendency and no success. Should have run.

            1. “On 2nd-and-10, the #49ers run the ball at the NFL’s 3rd highest rate, but their success rate on those runs is the 4th worst in the NFL. Meanwhile, they pass at the 3rd lowest rate, yet their success rate on those passes ranks 5th in the NFL.” #GoNiners #49wz
              9:12 AM – 26 Sep 2018

              BTW, Breida had five carries on 2nd down in that game. Mostert had four carries on 2nd down. CJ ran on 2nd once. That’s 10 rushes on 2nd down. They passed on 2nd down 10 times. That’s balance, not a tendency.

              1. It’s his tendency for the year, not this game. I’ve already stated that he did a very good job of going against tendencies for the majority of the game. On the last few he went back to those because that’s what he is most comfortable doing.

                Bringing up numbers from 3 weeks ago doesn’t mean much.

                For this season on 2nd down:

                51 Runs
                74 Passes

                When tied or trailing with less than 4 minutes to go:

                2 runs
                16 passes

                Shanahan is pretty predictable in the situation that he was in Monday night, and played right into it.

              2. Ratio in this game was 11:9 pass to run on 2nd down. He had Beathard in shotgun and looking for short passes – until 3rd down of course – which was Beathard’s comfort zone.

                What is the success rate on those 16 passes on second down with less than 4 minutes to go?

              3. “Ratio in this game was 11:9 pass to run on 2nd down.”

                I’ve already stated he did a very good job of going against tendencies for the majority of the game. On the last few series he went back to those because that’s what he is most comfortable doing.

                “What is the success rate on those 16 passes on second down with less than 4 minutes to go?”

                9-16, 94 yards, 0 TD 3 INT

              4. “When tied or trailing with less than 4 minutes to go:”

                So KS calls more passes when trailing inside 4 minutes. I’m stunned!

              5. Also depends on what you define as success. Is a 9 yard completion on 3rd and 10 resulting in a punt considered a success?

              6. I’ve already stated he did a very good job of going against tendencies for the majority of the game. On the last few series he went back to those because that’s what he is most comfortable doing.

                I disagree. The packers had stuffed the run the last two times it was called and were playing close to the LOS and bringing pressure – both run and pass – which called for a short passing game.

              7. “The packers had stuffed the run the last two times it was called”

                Right. Both on 1st down, a run heavy down for Shanahan.

  42. “In situations where teams are one or two first downs away from ending the game, passing simply has to be part of the equation, if only to prevent teams from teeing off on your running game. The screen Dak Prescott set up with Cole Beasley to seal the game against the 49ers is a perfect example. And, with run-pass options, you can ask your quarterback to make a simple check at the line of scrimmage and either hand the ball off or make a pass that is likely to be completed.”

    1. Bummer that the 49ers weren’t in a position to simply run out the clock up big like the example they use or the situation they’re talking about.

      1. Bummer that you missed the point again.

        “passing simply has to be part of the equation, if only to prevent teams from teeing off on your running game.”

        And that’s exactly what KS was expecting as he’s already said. He didn’t think running the ball would work there, therefore calling a run would be a wasted down.

        1. “Bummer that you missed the point again.”

          Not quite

          “passing simply has to be part of the equation, if only to prevent teams from teeing off on your running game.”

          Yeah. And they are discussing how teams still need to throw late in games when trying to close it out when they have a lead.

          In the 49ers case they didn’t have the lead, and no one is saying that they should have shut the passing game down.

          You’re trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with this example and pretty much each of the others below.

          1. But GB was teeing off. That’s the point. Passing and getting a 1st down may have kept GB honest, perhaps getting them to stop teeing off, which may have led to KS calling more runs to get in FG range.

            1. No they weren’t. On that 2nd down play they were in Nickle and had a soft 7 man box with the middle wide open because the linebackers were lined up outside or head up on the tackles.

              They were set up for a run because they were playing pass, Shanahan’s tendency on 2nd down.

              1. “Then, the next second-and-three, I felt pretty strongly that they were going to come after us and bring more than we could handle in the run game, which usually leaves open a very good slant window.”

                Were the LBs lined up outside to defend the OZ? Why did they leave the middle open when slants are a likely option?

              2. “Then, the next second-and-three, I felt pretty strongly that they were going to come after us and bring more than we could handle in the run game, which usually leaves open a very good slant window.”

                Too bad for Shanny that isn’t what GB did.

                “Why did they leave the middle open when slants are a likely option?”

                Because they were sitting in the quick slant window. It’s very likely that if Perry doesn’t knock the ball down that Blake Martinez would have picked it off.

              3. Pettine is aggressive, KS knows this.

                “It’s very likely that if Perry doesn’t knock the ball down that Blake Martinez would have picked it off.”

                Considering CJ was the QB, you may be right. What do you think about a RPO there?

              4. “Pettine is aggressive, KS knows this.”

                Same the other way. Pettine won the down.

                “Considering CJ was the QB, you may be right.”

                It’s actually considering the play call. Not Beathard’s fault that Shanahan set him up to fail on that one.

                “What do you think about a RPO there?”

                Don’t see it because the defense was already set up to play the pass so no need to put it on the WB to decide. Would rather have seen the QB under the center and an inside zone, inside counter or boot action on that one.

              5. “It’s actually considering the play call. Not Beathard’s fault that Shanahan set him up to fail on that one.”

                That play call is far from automatic, but is likely to be more successful while going up against a QB like CJ. If it were automatic, slants wouldn’t be ran as much.

                And yes, I realize that you said “very likely” instead of a guaranteed INT.

  43. “When teams are dealing with this decision in the fourth quarter of a tie contest, chances are it’s better to be aggressive and try to win games. There are too many teams throughout history who have sat on the ball after allowing a late score and regretted the tale. The flip side of that, quite famously in opposition to John Madden’s commentary, was the 2001 Patriots. They allowed a back-breaking touchdown to Ricky Proehl with 1:36 left in the Super Bowl to tie the score at 17, and while Madden suggested the Patriots kneel on the ball, Bill Belichick rightly realized he was a massive underdog and would only be running the risk of giving Kurt Warner the ball in overtime.”

    “Tom Brady promptly drove the Patriots 53 yards for a game-winning Adam Vinatieri field goal.”

    1. Nobody has suggested that the 49ers shouldn’t have been trying to score on that drive.

      They had 2nd and 3 at the GB 46 yard line with 1:16 to play, 3 timeouts and a running game that was averaging 5.8 yards per carry. Calling a running play there to keep the clock rolling isn’t not being aggressive, it’s being smartly aggressive.

      There seems to be an overriding theme from those who support Shanahan that those questioning that call are saying that there should have been more runs or just killing the clock when that’s not the case at all.

      As I stated earlier, a run on 2nd down goes against Shanahan’s tendencies and likely would have had a better chance of success than the runs on the previous series’ which were all on 2nd down. Also, a run on 2nd down would likely burn a good 15-20 seconds off the clock at least, and then if they’d picked up the 1st or come up short they still had 3rd down to throw. The seconds that would have run off wouldn’t have hurt them since they had 3 timeouts and only needed a short distance, but it would have pretty much killed GB’s chances to move the ball 50 or more yards for a FG.

      It’s pretty much a common sense situation, especially when you have a QB like Rodgers on the other side of the field, but please feel free to find more quotes that mostly don’t address this specific situation.

      1. I 100% agree it should have been a running play. But even if not a running play, why not a screen play? They had great success with it a week earlier. I know a quick slant play like they ran still has a pretty high rate of success, but given the situation that needed to pretty much guarantee they would keep the clock ticking no matter the result of the play.

      2. “They had 2nd and 3 at the GB 46 yard line with 1:16 to play, 3 timeouts and a running game that was averaging 5.8 yards per carry. Calling a running play there to keep the clock rolling isn’t not being aggressive, it’s being smartly aggressive.”

        They averaged -.5 YDs on their last two carries. KS expected GB to go hard against the run. KS calling a play that he didn’t think would work is conservative at best, defeatist at worst.

        “but please feel free to find more quotes that mostly don’t address this specific situation.”

        Bummer you missed the point again. Let me edit that last quote.”

        “Kyle Shanahan rightly realized he was a massive underdog and would only be running the risk of giving Aaron Rodgers the ball in overtime.”

        1. “giving Aaron Rodgers the ball in overtime.”

          He’d have also been running the risk of getting the ball himself. And if Rodgers got the ball first and had to settle for a FG the 49ers would have had another chance.

          Instead, Shanahan ran the risk of giving the ball to Rodgers with enough time to win with a FG in regulation, and he did.

      3. “There seems to be an overriding theme from those who support Shanahan that those questioning that call are saying that there should have been more runs or just killing the clock when that’s not the case at all.”

        There seems to be an overriding theme from those who don’t support Shanahan that those defending that call are saying that there should have been no runs when that’s not the case at all.

        Funny isn’t it. Near the top of the thread, I said I would have ran there too. But I understand and accept KS’ explanation. Plus KS is in the Arena, not the living room like the rest of us.

        1. “Near the top of the thread, I said I would have ran there too. But I understand and accept KS’ explanation.”

          That’s cool.

        2. As is often the case, discussions veer off in different directions and the original point gets lost. This started, at least for me, with the criticism leveled at Shanahan for daring to pass in that situation. I would not have had any problem with a run being called instead. My point was and continues to be that there was nothing wrong with passing in that situation.

          1. “My point was and continues to be that there was nothing wrong with passing in that situation.”

            Yeah, I know what your point has been.

            And my point was and continues to be that Shanahan should have called a run on 2nd down to keep the clock running and stay off tendency considering the field position and time outs they had at their disposal.

            You continue to push this “Monday Morning QB” narrative when I actually told the person I was watching the game with that “he should call a run here” as the game was going, so it wasn’t Monday Morning QB, but actually Monday Night QBz

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