49ers’ Chip Kelly keeps cool when heat would be better

SANTA CLARA – Two days after getting crushed 45-16 in Buffalo on Oct. 16, the 49ers practiced in silence — the part of practice open to the media.

The only people on the field who spoke above a whisper were running backs coach Tom Rathman and special teams coach Derius Swinton II. When those two didn’t talk, practice felt like a funeral.

Offensive coordinator Curtis Modkins stood by himself with his hands in his pockets. He seemed lost. Most of the players breezed through stretches and warmups like they were in P.E. class and their teacher wasn’t watching them.

That’s because the man in charge of practice wasn’t watching them. Chip Kelly spent the first 20 minutes talking to Phil Dawson, the kicker.

Click here to read the rest of my column.

This article has 459 Comments

  1. Good read Grant.

    I would add that Eddie would be a nightmare to be around if he were running the show. Maybe Chip should spend less time laughing and more time stressing the importance of tackling.

    1. What I really liked about the game against the Vikings is we finally saw how he handles some adversity, some difficulty. He made some bad errors early on and put his team under some pressure. But he didn’t let it get to him, played steady football the rest of the game and they came away with the win through some great plays from D and STs.

      1. “….Football is a wargame…”

        Oh no.. Grant … you ..didn’t .. just say
        that ..

        Cue “The annointed one” ..
        (u-hhh .. I mean .. the “annoying” one)

    2. I have to admit I didn’t think he would amount of to much. I’m impressed with the kid so far. I think that defenses will adjust and he will need to grow but if he can he could be a real find.

  2. Different strokes for different folks. Flying into a rage works for some, not others.

    But what you say is right. Calmly accepting defeat and poor play only rewards more poor play. If you aren’t someone that lets your emotions out like Kelly, you need to find another way to demonstrate poor play will not be tolerated. Doesn’t sound like Chip is doing that.

    Of course you have to accept there will be a point where the stick is less effective than the carrot, but starting with the carrot isn’t usually the best approach.

  3. Football is NOT a war game. It is somewhat violent for sure but has nothing to do with war. In war people die in order to preserve people like Kaep’s right to protest. With today’s rules its more of a panty and lace game that got caught up in the political correct movement. Today’s game isn’t about who knocks whose head off, its more about making it easy to throw the ball and heaven for bid if the receiver gets knocked on his ass or if the QB takes a hit. Now days, football is a political game where it has become more important to sit/kneel then to win football games. Today’s football is a kinder and gentler game that is more akin to watching soap operas. So knock it off with the war game crap – it ain’t.

    1. Football is not War. However, the strategies and tactics can distinctly relate to War GAMES.

      In the Art of War, the lessons learned could be applied to every day living. not just waging war. In fact, the acme of achievement is to accomplish their goals without a shot fired or sword stroke. That requires strategic planning, strong leadership, organizational skills, logistics and team morale.

        1. Ever learn from war? Sounds like no.

          Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

          War is part of history, and not the sole domain of generals, with everyone else excluded.

            1. Yup, you did not learn a thing. War vets do not need to shout down people who were more fortunate than them. My number was I think 264, and I think they selected up to around 150. Your beef is with the draft board.

              Being a vet does not make you a better person, nor does it make you smarter. You do not have the right to yell expletives just because you served, and it certainly did not make you a better strategist or military tactician. One could say that you were not smart enough to avoid the draft. I could have gotten a student deferment, but submitted because my father wanted me to.

              Sounds like you still have anger issues. I honor your service, but I still consider that I am just as equal a citizen as you are.

              1. My anger is at morons who don’t know what the hell they’re talking about presuming to know what we who made life & death decisions very fing day did. You’re an insulting ignoramus.
                Every single individual I served with is Thrice the man you are.

              2. Seb, that’s not what UC or BroT are saying, and you must know that. Anyone that hasn’t been in war has no idea what it is like. When they say football isn’t like war, rather than argue, just STFU. And when they say war isn’t a game, and are insulted by the idea of the mere suggestion it is a game, perhaps you should realise you need to treat their ideas with respect.

                Strategy, leadership, etc aren’t isolated to war and football. There is no need to link the two whatsoever.

              3. BT, your service is admirable, but your anger is misplaced. I am not the enemy, they are dead and gone. Most vets I know try to forget the pain and suffering, and they certainly did not abuse common folk while feeling superior.

              4. Grant, you think maybe it’s time to give Sebnnoying a break from the blog? Like WTF man!

              5. War GAMES. Football is a game. Raging against me because I invoke The Art of War just means you all are too hypersensitive. Trying to shout me down because one fired a gun in anger, and watched his buddies die is not going to bring anyone back, and does not make one superior to another. It actually dehumanizes everyone.

                Sounds like you want to relive the war. I prefer peace.

                Yes, I heard the stories. Some would go in guns ablazing and they did not care who they killed, just as long as it was not them. I do not know if you experienced that, but some of my friends were haunted by the carnage. It changed them, and they tried to drown their memories with booze.

              6. OK this is Tom Sawyer, and Seb is just trying to get attention.
                Seb wants to give Me psychological advice? Bwahahahahahaha!

              7. Seriously Seb this is worse than anything you’ve ever vomited on here. Not only are you disrespecting veterans, you don’t have a freaking clue as to why. Do you possess any common sense at all?

          1. Seb makes some good points. So STFU Tuna, Scooter, and Jack a$$. If you served in the military, congratulations. All that shows is that you’re a tool – being manipulated and used for other bigger gains. For veterans to act like they’re “3 times the man” is part of the brain washing.

            1. Please, do not get in the gutter. It does no good to get in a pissing match, because in the end everyone is just covered in pee.

            2. Big talk from someone behind the comforts of their keyboard who obviously never experienced being in a situation where your life is on the line.

      1. Seb – you should of been a politician, you take a thing that is so simple and complicate the heck out of it. War – kill or be killed its just that simple. By the way I don’t know if your book tells you this but if it doesn’t I will tell ya, death is permanent ACL, MCL, Concussions still have the continuance of life. Football has nothing to do with war, zilch, nada, no comparison at all.

        1. So that is why Bill Walsh had a copy of The Art of War on his desk and quoted from it?

          War games and football games have a lot in common. There is attrition, goals to achieve, squads that are some time unevenly matched, Generals can be equated with Head coaches. There are strategies and tactics. It is won in the trenches. Offensive and defensive maneuvers. There is a ground game, or long bombs down field. Abrams tanks in pits.

          I thought this blog site was not squeamish, and could discuss things without being afraid. War games do not necessarily kill everyone. Football is filled with war references. I thought the Niners were massacred, it was total devastation, they were blitzed, but in the end, they went to the middle of the field and shook hands, kinda like an armistice.

          1. Squemesh? Ever seen your best friend turned into vermicelli? You miserable mf! YOU are the guy that in every Marine element we said:
            “Take his ammunition and distribute it amongst the other men.”
            Then later, if ever we needed a scacrifice, it would’ve been YOU, Seb. We would’ve put you on flank, and didi’d the other way. Got news.

            1. I think Seb had a very low lottery number or was too young for our time. If I’m wrong and he was “Jody” then he better hope he can get his tank out of the pit or…………

              1. Sorry, he pushed my buttons. But I’m glad not to know his address.
                At least my wife is glad I don’t know his address. I’m an old codger, but I’d be delighted to b slap him.

            2. I am sorry that your best friend died. My neighborhood hero got it in a rice field one week before he would have been rotated out. I dont think I ever saw his father laugh again.

              What a waste. What did they die for? What did their deaths accomplish?You want to take out your anger and hate against me, but it will never bring anyone back.

              In Korea, my uncle was sent out with a wire to re establish communications, and had to crawl over unexploded bombs, so I know how you felt about people like me. We were expendable. I guess it runs in families.

              1. Our country abandoned us, that’s why our bond to each other was invioble. We died retrieving our friends bodies. I took a PH retrieving an Army dude and an ARVN dude, who passed. It’s not about fearlessness, ok? It’s about people scared as sheryit doing they’re sheryit anyway
                ! A guy I pulled wounded out of the mud is now the CEO of a Fortune 100 company; he takes my wife and I and his wife into the Seamliss Taste Tour of Napa Valley every year

              2. “It’s about people scared as sheryit doing they’re sheryit anyway!”

                And How!!! Hats off to you BT

              3. Seb – I don’t care what Walsh said or did if he compared football to war then he is wrong. I was well into adulthood when Walsh came into the scene I never heard him make that comparison but he may have. If you or Grant or Walsh were at the A Shau Valley in May 1971, 5 klicks east of the Ho Chi Minh Trail taking in small arms fire and a brutal mortar attack you would then understand the significance of what Bro and I are trying to tell you. War and football no comparison at all. And no I am not being sensitive. Its more important that Grant gets it right as he is a writer and read by many people, you it doesn’t really matter if you get it or not. Your just like the rest of us a pee-on of no great significance.

              4. No apologies necessary. When I returned, I was medivaced to Letterman Hospital and after three months I was discharged from the hospital. I ran into a friend from high school in a bar and he had also been wounded and then assigned to the VIP motor pool at the Presidio in SF. He got me a job there so I could finish out my time. One of my first assignments was to drive some high ranking officers to the Haight Asbury where our car was attacked by a mob who beat on our windows and tried to tip the car over. So much for Peace. This is the god’s honest truth. I am here in SF after returning from ‘Nam and my own people are attacking me. After that event, we were prohibited from ever going near that area again. I could go on, but I think I can safely say that I understand your feelings about the reception we received when we came back from doing what we were forced to do in order to “serve our country”. Maybe some day people will understand that “Thank you for your service” after 30 years of taking sh?t is not exactly timely. You are absolutely correct BroT – our country abandoned us and the respect that they show today’s military is nothing but relief because of the fact that those only thankful because they are not the ones who have to actually had to serve. Kaepernick wants to protest something – how about our country has been at war for 15 years and were about to elect a woman who is going to escalate things. Semper Fi BroT. If I am whining then excuuuuuuuuuse me. (so nobody thinks I am not grateful, my vehicle in the motor pool was the only one that had a radio and I never missed a 49er game while I had to work 7 days a week)

              5. Wow, you gotta be brave to live through an experience like that. Sounds like you became a true band of brothers.

                Sorry if I have offended you, and will tone down my snark.

              6. UC I salute your service to this country,and have read about the A Shau valley. You fought against a whole division.

                I will try to tone it down in the future.

  4. A couple of complaints-
    To support Undercenter, Grant, kindly keep war game imagery out of your commentary since you don’t know the first fing about it. Neither did John Wayne, by the way, but don’t fall into that trap. It’s insulting, frankly.
    Second, your Bill Walsh references are presented in a way that clearly implies you were there and witnessing this stuff; simple arithmetic contradicts. If perhaps you would preface with “the collective memories of my dad, Art Spander, Glenn Dickey were that BW said…..”

  5. Hmmm, I seem to recall Grant writing articles about Harbaugh being overly animated on the sidelines during his tenure. Who exhibits the perfect level of coaches “heat’? ANdy reid perhaps.

    1. Harbaugh was overly animated at times, but Kelly always seems to just have this doofus smile on his face regardless of what’s taking place on the field.

      1. The whole subject matter is silly and fruitless. Some coaches are vociferous and successful. Some are subdued and successful. I see zero correlation between the coaches demeanor and team success.

        Let’s talk about game plan, adjustments, scheme, personnel , draft picks etc.

        That is what makes a team good/bad and frankly that is were we are failing.

  6. Someone needs to say this.

    Why did the 49ers quit on Gabbert so quickly? And, now that Kaepernick has shown to be even worse than he was last year, why aren’t the 9ers giving Gabbert another chance?

    Gabbert had to start the season against the Rams vaunted defense, than a road game to last years Super Bowl loser, than Seattle, Dallas and Arizona. Okay, he didn’t look great or even very good, but you have to admit that’s a pretty tough way to start the season. The 9ers stuck Kaepernick in there and he has basically stunk.

    Gabbert vs. Kaepernick stats this year? And remember Gabbert played against much tougher opponents.

    Gabbert has a higher completion percentage by 10 percentage points, higher QB rating, higher avg. yds per throw. The niners were averaging 7 points a game more than last year. And, Gabbert runs as well as Kaepernick, averaging 4.4 yds a carry.

    So, we’re 1-4 (against tough teams), so give Kap a look. Well, we did and now we’re 1-6. It’s time to do the right thing and give Gabbert a chance to show he can grow during the season and do a hell of lot better than the washed-up Kaepernick.

    1. Sorry Dennis but no one needed to say that. Gabbert was replaced because he’s not a starting caliber QB. Kap isn’t either which is why it makes no difference who plays. Going back to Gabbert achieves nothing. If they are going to make another change might as well play the guy who hasn’t had a shot yet and watch him fail too.

      1. Wrong.

        Gabbert did better against tougher opponents. Leaving Kaepernick in there is foolish. Everyone knows he’ll be gone next year, even if he somehow remembers how to quarterback between now and then.

        I’d go with Ponder over Kaepernick at this point, but obviously he hasn’t shown the coaches enough to do more than be the scout team qb.

        I’m Kelly, I put Gabbert back in as starter and promote Ponder to 2nd string. Kaepernick scout team qb. Gabbert gets a fair chance to show if he might be worth bringing back next year. Of course, we draft a qb and Gabbert mentors him until he is ready to start.

        The way it is now it looks like we’ll lose Gabbert and Kaepernick after the season. Leaving no one to start while the new kid works himself into the lineup.

        1. Better against tougher opponents? He was rated the #33 QB in the league by the time they benched him. What the heck are you watching? He’s already shown he’s not a capable starter. There is nothing left to see here. Who cares if they lose him after the season. You don’t like Kap, a lot of people don’t like Kap, but going back to Gabbert makes zero sense when we have already seen what he’s capable of. They will probably give Ponder a shot at some point, but expecting anything different from him would also be ignoring the fact he’s been a lousy NFL QB as well.

          The 49ers don’t have a starting caliber QB on the roster. That is the cold hard truth.

      2. Rocket

        I have to both agree and disagree with your post….That you denigrate Gabbert who’s had limited playing exposure over the last two partial seasons does not equate to Kaepernick’s opportunity even though he has been outplayed by Gabbert in both of those partial seasons as well as 3 full seasons. Your post just mocked all of the stats that Dennis stated…and for what purpose ? To put a ‘lesser’ QB ahead of Gabbert who still has earned the shot at developing….Kaepernick will not develop any further even though he’s paid 7 times as much as Gabbert. I agree that neither of the two is a quality starting QB, but we have seen what Kaepernick can do, and we just might benefit by having Gabbert at #1, followed by Ponder, and Kaepernick as #3….No one else wants him…why should we….?

        1. Oregon,

          You both agreeing and disagreeing is a major step up from what you thought of me a few weeks ago so I’d say we are making progress.

          I know you like Gabbert, but I’ve watched this guy from College, to Jax and now SF and he’s not going to be anything more than he is right now. He’s another on the long list of “looks the part but can’t play at this level” prospects. There is absolutely no point in continuing to play him. His numbers are slightly better than Kap at his worst so I wouldn’t use that as a positive in his defense. You point out that nobody wants Kap, but even fewer want Gabbert and we’ll likely see that when he becomes a FA after the season. I don’t denigrate Gabbert because I don’t like him personally. I denigrate him because he just can’t play. Simple as that.

          I would assume the reason they are giving Kap a chance is because they are hoping he can recapture some small part of the ability he showed previously. I agree with you that he’s as good as he’s going to get at this point, but if he’s on the team I guess they are going to see once and for all before pulling the plug after the season.

          If we are being honest, it really doesn’t matter who they play because none of them are long term answers at the position for us. I would imagine if Kap continues to struggle they’ll likely throw Ponder in at some point to see if he’s worth bringing back next year over Gabbert as a vet backup possibility.

    2. I agree 100%. Gabbert’s stats last year were also better than Kap’s.
      Frankly both Gabbert and Ponder were deservedly high draft picks and both are still in their 20’s. They can both improve. Those of you who think the Niners can draft a QB next year to instantly save the team are fooling yourselves.
      -Craig in Berkeley

    3. So–one sucks and the other is even worse. Both a reflection of the esteem Baalke holds for the QB position. Neither one represents the future.

  7. On a positive note, Why not give Rush and Skov a shot? We haven’t got much from our LBs inside and outside. The season is basically over. Let’s see what we have with these guys.

    Hell, if the running game continues to struggle give Taylor some action.

  8. Don’t worry, this will be my only baseball post. Congratulations to Kyle Schwarber. After tearing his ACL and LCL in the first week of the season he is back in the lineup tonight. A feel good story for sure.

    As a Cub fan I am a nervous wreck right now. I can’t act like I have been here before. Go Cubs Go!

    1. I, too, am a Cubs fan since they knocked out the Giants. Do not want Cleveland to win, and my son’s GF is from Chicago. Go Cubs!

    2. Good luck to your Cubs. If they pull this off Chicago will be in a state of euphoria that hasn’t been seen since… well probably ever.

  9. Why can’t yall get it through you head its a Trent Baalke problem, not a coaching problem?

    The only reason Chip Kelly is hereally is because no one good wanted to work with Trent Baalke.

    Point blank period.

    End of story.

  10. “Avg #NFL pass attempt in ’16 traveling 7.95 yds past line of scrimmage, by far shortest distance in the 11 years #ESPN has tracked the data.”

    Guess the howitzer isn’t needed quite so much as some think……..

  11. Buttons pushed-
    -over reactions posted-
    -still mad-
    -not sorry-

    For the record
    Shot down 50k into Laos.
    No rescue cuz cross border
    Walked back to Old French Fort for extract by usaf jollygreen
    Deliver to uss sanctuary sun mend hospital ship

    1. BroT – Bad as some memories are, it helps me think of something other than how bad the 49ers are. In the Army they always told us that we could not possibly be in Laos or Cambodia because those countries have assured us that there are no Vietnamese combatants there and everywhere we go we encounter Vietnamese combatants. Kind of the same logic Jed uses when he says he’s accountable.

      1. OK Whine
        I’ve taken a few deep breaths. I appreciate your comments. To close this out, a story with irony but no bitterness. I extended in Nam, figuring 6 months now was better than 13 months later (4 year enlistment). On extension leave, I rode co-pilot with a high school friend who was using a pickup truck to deliver a bed from San Diego to his uncle in Coos Bay.
        We stopped in Berekely to see a friend enrolled at Cal. Bad move. The “Peoples’ Park riots were going on, unbeknownst to us. He was a college football player with short hair and an old red pickup. I was a short haired Marine. We came upon an embattled intersection, and some protestors looked at us and shouted “Rednecks!” And starting throwing bricks at us. We peeled out. Few blocks and came upon a police Riot Squad. Their platoon leader looked at us and yelled “Punks!” We peeled out again and didn’t stop until we got to Richardson Grove.
        The Sixties, man. They were some stuff!

        1. I think us vets got one in thing in common with everyone – vet or not. It’s us against them but never us against us. That’s what gets me down. We either stand together or we hang separetly. Some famous guy said that but I been drinking so I forget who. ?

          1. ; >)
            “We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly, we shall hang separately.” -Ben Franklin
            ( I was guessing that it was Patrick Henry until I looked it up.)

            1. Yeah – that old guy was the one. He also said:
              “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” Especially on Sundays when the 9ers are playing.

  12. logically “blow it all up” should include the Yorks. Unless they are gone 49ers are in for a looong period of losing. Jed has shown he does not understand how to put a winning team together. And as long as he is at the helm, this ship ain’t goin’ nowhere but down

  13. I’d love to pile on Jed but the blame falls squarely on the draft process. Many here wanted Hue Jackson as the next coach. He is winless in Cleveland. Good decision by Jed not to hire him.
    Next, as far as free agents go that weren’t signed by SF : Malik Jackson, 1.0 sacks, Olivier Vernon 1.0 sacks, Janrois Jenkins, 10 passes defended 2 ints, Sean Smith, 7 passes defended 2 ints, Jaye Howard 1.0 sacks
    It really comes down to there isn’t a savior in FA and the problems in SF are solely drafting issues. That’s squarely on Baalke’s shoulders.
    Here’s the link for the 99 best FA in 2016. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000637939/article/2016-free-agency-top-99-available-players

    1. Matt if only the Dorks will spend …

      But knowing their history I am not hopeful. The ship is sinking and

      they are content to let is stay at the bottom of the ocean while they
      stuff their pockets

    2. You are all over the place Matt and it’s hard to determine what point you are trying to make here.

      Hue Jackson is losing in Cleveland, and that was the plan. They completely gutted their team and have used 5 different QB’s this season due to injury. Even under those circumstances, they have been competitive for the most part. If the Niners were competitive there wouldn’t be the angst around here that there currently is, but they aren’t.

      Trying to defend the team for not signing FA’s is ridiculous. They had no players from the 2012 draft to give extensions too and a number of good young players on the market who were just entering their second contracts. You have to build a talent base Matt. What exactly do you see from the team right now that makes you feel good about them ignoring FA? They have arguably the worst roster in the NFL. Any of the players you listed and others you didn’t, would have helped this team in a big way.

      You are also making excuses for the worst ownership in sports. I have no idea why anyone would try and defend the indefensible but that’s your prerogative. The Yorks have run this team into the ground. They have overseen poor teams for most of their tenure and fired the only two HC’s who had success. They continue to employ a GM with a bad record in the draft and FA. They constantly leak statements that make them look like a joke around the league.

      If I remember correctly you were one of a few who ignored reason and predicted a winning season for this team. Time to face reality.

      1. Rocket, Cleveland is not competitive, they are horrible. I’ve watched a couple bits and pieces of their games, they are a comedy of errors. I think their effort is better than the 49ers but they make a lot of bone headed mistakes.

        1. Prime,

          The 49ers offer a plethora of boneheaded mistakes each week. I’d wager a guess that if they matched up again this season that the result would be similar to a season ago.

          1. I agree with that. I think there is a reason why both teams are vying for that 1st overall pick. At least Cleveland willing started their purge of talent last year and has set themselves up nicely for next years draft. I say they fleeced Philly in that deal last year for Wentz. Hopefully the 49ers can do the same

        2. Prime,

          I’ve watched 4 of their games and they were competitive in every one. They lost by one score in 3 of them. Their defense is awful but their offense even with a revolving door at QB has been effective more often than not. Mistakes are going to happen but Jackson, especially on offense, has this team moving in the right direction. I also agree that if they faced the Niners they would beat them. The Niners are the worst team in football right now. I don’t think there is any doubt about that.

  14. You blame the draft process and Trent Baalke but then arbitrarily mention how it was good that the team didn’t hire Jackson because he’s win less too? Do you even know what you’re trying to say?

    1. Blame the draft process and
      Cassie’s Dad ..but .. not .. who
      he’s joined at the hip with .. ?

      Really… the buck hasta stop with Jedster

    2. The GM hasn’t made all bad decisions. Many on here sound like teenage girls with the emotional rants. Baalke has missed in the draft consistently, but he has also made some good trades. Boldin and Smith were great trades. Unfortunately, the QB’s and the system in SF were terrible and didn’t utilize those trades. Simply look at what D Walker has done in Tenn since leaving SF. Crabtree in SF. Ginn in Carolina.
      Neither areas are ownership. Ownership built a new stadium. It hosted Super Bowl 50. Ownership also ran off Harbaugh but by all accounts, Harbaugh had worn out his welcome as well. Coming in he stated 4 years about how long it took him to lose all his friends as it coincided with his father being transferred to a new team.
      The Owner is not without fault. The financial system that prevents molding high dollar talent has certainly resulted in the product on the field today.
      However, Kraft has made that system successful in New England. The Yorks are simply trying to build the same system. They however are missing the Coach, the GM, and the QB to make it all successful.
      So, no, I do not blame York for all the mistakes here in SF. I blame him for some mistakes associated with youth (Harbaugh, tweets) and learning the job. Consequently, I blame the drafting process, the infatuation with damaged products, and the grown men on the field who aren’t doing their jobs for the lack of success on the field.

      1. “Ownership built a new stadium” Of course they did. It was an investment. I believe they make 100 million a year from Levi Stadium.

        Jed knew he needed a better product to get the new stadium. So what did he do? He called uncle Eddie for advice. He hired a competent coach. He spent money on free agents.

        It worked, but since he got the stadium what has he done? He got rid ot the competent coach and hired two jokes like Tomsula and Kelly. He quit signing free agents. And who knows if he still talks to Ed.

        Oh yeah, the dinner, trying to get his rent lowered, and screwing the girl scouts. Everything Jed does is about money. He is the worst owner in professional sports.

        1. Many said the same about Kraft before NE found Belichick and Brady. In fact, he is still rated the worst owner in Soccer.

          Harbaugh was a great hiring that wore out his welcome. Grant crucified him before he left and many fans wanted him gone on this post the year he left. I agree with your points though. It was a brilliant financial move for Jed to do things as he did.

          It is terrible for the fans, but the truth of the matter is that in two years, without spending money, SF will get a cake walk schedule. They may even find themselves above .500

          Baalke should be gone by then, but with Gamble in house, there won’t be much of any change. Chip Kelly will probably still be in place because the ownership is looking at clearing the books of its coaches.

          1. Kraft bought the team with Parcells already instilled as HC and they were in the SB within two years of his ownership. There is zero comparison to be made here between Kraft and the Yorks. He did some of the things owners do when trying to get a Stadium built like threatening to move elsewhere, but this is a guy who was a life long fan of the team and has been one of the best owners in the NFL since he bought the Patriots.

            I’ve heard this Harbaugh wore out his welcome story before and it’s complete BS. It was an excuse adopted by some fans and even media to come to terms with a move that made no sense. York and Baalke didn’t like like him and that is the only reason he is no longer the HC. One player who is no longer here insinuated they were being worked too hard, meanwhile they were winning and going to NFCCG’s.

            The one constant from the firing of Mariucci to the hiring of Chip Kelly has been the Yorks ownership. They are the worst owners in sports according to ESPN and it’s hard to disagree based on what we’ve seen.

            1. Rocket

              The “Harbaugh wore out his welcome…” has many faces….from going nose to nose with Baalke was one…dislike for the FO people is another…constantly rubbing Jed’s face in ‘it’ was probably the most egregious, and the bottom line as far as his ‘mutual departure’ goes. For me, it was twofold…his attitude toward LaMichael James, (failure to play him other than returning Punts) which incidentally he led the league in when he asked for his release….and the one move that doomed the 49ers for at least 5+years…trading Alex Smith. ‘Could sure use that ‘Game manager’ now, what ? Harbaugh was a player that I admired even though he still had the worst case of arrogance as a player as he did a coach. ‘Chip’ will overshadow him as a coach….just my opinion….

      2. York is the C.E.O. The buck stops with him, either directly or indirectly. This whole team is a reflection of his judgement(s).

        Almost certainly the worst ownership in professional sports.

  15. The corporate way of thinking is, if the stock crashes on friday, on monday fire the janitor.
    Wash , rince and repeat.
    That is what’s wrong with the Yorks.
    They may be good at making money but they are incompetent in the buisness of football.
    If you want this team to be different, then the Yorks can not have anything to do with the game of football…End of story.

  16. Wow, depressing read. Seems to be a very real lack of leadership. Seems to me that a coaches response to losing can be a very quick way to lose the locker room. Perhaps even quicker way to lose the locker room than actually losing games.

  17. Wonder how Bill Parcells would handle this fiasco? In fact, I thought Baalke was a Parcells’ disciple or at least from the same tree? Wonder if Baalke ever gives Parcells a call, and, if so, what is the conversation like?

      1. Cubus, I assume you mean a college football team? If Kelly breaks his contract to go coach a college football team the 49ers owe him nothing. That would be Kelly breaking his contract. And I am assuming as per standard contract practice for the NFL that he is precluded from just quitting and going to coach another NFL team.

        If, however, the 49ers want to get rid of Kelly, I am assuming there is some offset language in there that would mean they only pay the difference in what he would have earned with the 49ers and what he earns elsewhere (if it is less than he gets with the 49ers). Similar to part of the language that held up Joey Bosa’s deal with the Chargers.

        1. Thanks. I thought that’s how it worked, but I got confused last year with Tomsula’s contract.

          It seems like “offset” language only kicks in if the team let’s the coach/player go and the coach/player actually finds a new position in football (I’m assuming it would be restricted to football as opposed to corporate management, etc.)

          If it’s a trade, then the existing contracting language is binding upon the new team unless the contract is renegotiated.

            1. He’s a guy I’ve advocated for, but he also has baggage from Denver that gives some fans great trepidation….

            2. He’ll get another HC job before long, and he will have learned a fair bit from his time at Denver. There is no questioning his acumen as an OC.

              1. My only concern about him is that is he a product of Tom Brady and Belichick?
                He will probably only take a job if he gets the QB he wants.

              2. No question at all, in fact I suggested McDaniels/Caserio last year, but they only pay attention to Seb….

              3. Razor, you have been saying McDaniel and Caserio for two years running. And I agree with you.

              4. As much as I like the Patriot model, I prefer the Seahawks model even more. I think a young guy like Kirchner could bring the draft philosophy of choosing guys that are nasty competitors, where winning means everything.
                I think this team needs an injection of toughness like a $2 steak! I miss Harbaugh!

              5. The Seahawks aren’t doing a good job of replacing their talent though. They’ve had quite a few draft misses of late. And that OL is horrid. Makes you wonder how important Scot McLoughan was to their roster building. A lot of their top players were brought in while he was there.

              6. Yes Scooter but they have good talent at the key positions based on their philosophy.
                You are never going to be balanced talent wise in the NFL becaue of FA and the cap.
                But give them credit to stickin with their identity and staying competitve.

              7. “how important Scot McLoughan was to their roster building.”

                There seems to be a theme here

              8. “You are never going to be balanced talent wise in the NFL becaue of FA and the cap.”

                Tell that to the Patriots.

                Jack, exactly.

              9. Tom Brady and Belichick helps mask those 5th round draft picks making them look like 2nd round picks.

              10. It’s mostly Belichick. They’ve proven in the past and again this year that they can win without Brady.

              11. Thats what is so remarkable about them Hammer. They just draft another guy similar to the one guy they have to replace.
                They dont divert from their philosophy on how to build.

              12. Definitely mostly Belichick. But getting two guys that have worked under him for a long time isn’t a bad idea to try and replicate some of that success.

                A great coach isn’t great without some great players. The Patriots do a fine job of providing a good roster each year.

              13. None to date, Jack. But that’s why you take three of them (Caserio, McDaniel and Vrabel). ;-)

      1. I agree. Garrett, Simon, Beckwith and McKinley would greatly help the LB core, though I think the team should re-sign Armstrong as well. Signing Jeffrey and trading for Garoppolo are definitely good moves IMO, especially if they hired McDaniel.

        Not sure I fully agree with signing Bouye or Vollmer, though neither would hurt and they would make sense given the hiring of McDaniel and Vrabel in this scenario. But I’d be more inclined to sign an interior OL than a RT, and I’d be ok going with the current CBs and would look to sign a FA ILB instead (Collins or Hightower would make sense). They should also re-sign Ian Williams.

        They also need to look at the TE position. McDaniel is making great use of them, and I imagine he would like to have at least one good TE on the roster.

        1. What do you think about adding Poe instead of Williams? Jordan Leggett, TE from Clemson is a guy they might want to take a look at….

          1. If Williams is fully recovered, I’d sign Williams because I think he’ll be cheaper. Not that money is an issue, but I do think a 2-down type player isn’t worth really big bucks. So I guess it depends on if they think Poe would be a 3-down player.

            One thing I didn’t really appreciate though is that Matt Miller is suggesting they would move to a 4-3. So the need for a NT might not be as great as thought, if Dial can play the 1T position as well. I am assuming Buckner would play DE in base, not DT as Miller suggests (moving to DT on passing downs), with Armstead as a 3T. Putting the two of them next to each other as DTs in a base 4-3 would be asking for trouble. Would be interesting to see how that would work if they had Buckner, Lynch and Garrett at DE. To be honest, if they move to a 4-3 full time I would look to trade either Buckner or Armstead, especially if they drafted a DE.

            1. I think I agree with that, but Williams is cheaper for a reason. He can’t stay on the field. I think Buckner and Armstead would benefit by putting a guy like Poe between them, along with another year of development. If it meant getting Vrabel, I wouldn’t mind moving in that direction but as you say, it would mean trading either Buckner or Armstead….

            2. Speaking of Buckner and Armstead, were they good draft selections. after all? Tall guys like that have a difficult time playing low and Cosell has mentioned their “poor” pad level. The more tired they get, the harder it is for them to stay low.

              Kelly likes to say “big people beat up little people.” That might be true at the pop warner and high school level, but NFL offensive lineman are smart. They just use leverage on these tall guys to defeat them. The only really tall successful DL that I’m aware of is Campbell with the Cardinals. Further, we have a 6’5″ guy playing nose tackle in a 3-4 when the position really calls for a shorter, wide player. Thoughts?

              1. Well, I know rocket has been saying all along he thought getting two guys exactly the same was a mistake. And I think it is starting to look that way. A problem is they aren’t particularly scheme diverse – they are 3-4 DEs or DTs in a 4-3, but not NTs in a 4-3. So for a 4-3 you only really need one of them, unless you don’t mind moving one of them to strongside DE in base and moving him inside on passing downs. Which isn’t a terrible idea, but what do you then do with Lynch who is also probably best playing as the strongside DE in a 4-3?

                Even as 3-4 DEs they are proving to be a problem though. A 3-4 DE must be able to hold their point and take on two blockers when needed. Neither guy is proving capable of doing that right now.

                As for successful really tall DTs, Campbell is one. Chris Canty another. They can be successful if they use proper technique.

              2. Lets give them another year with some edge rushers and some ILB.
                Right now its so hard to say whos good and who isn’t especially first and second players.

              3. I forgot to mention that these tall guys should have advantages on passing downs. However, I have to say that I haven’t been aware that Buckner and Armstead routinely have their hands up during passing downs in order to possibly block passes. Wouldn’t this be one of their main advantages? I’ll try to start noticing this more during a game.

              4. “A 3-4 DE must be able to hold their point and take on two blockers when needed. ”

                Doesn’t that exhaust the DEs? Is it smarter to play a 4-3 just in terms of extending the time the front 3 can continue to play during a game particularly as the season grinds on?

              5. Well, the same principle applies for a lot of DTs, regardless of whether it is a 3-4 or 4-3. Sometimes they will be asked to 2-gap, sometimes 1-gap, depending on scheme and coaching preferences. And sometimes they will be asked to take on 1 blocker and other times 2, depending on both defensive scheme and offensive play calling.

                Basically, a DT (or 3-4 DE) needs to be able to hold the point and clog lanes in the run game, even when double teamed. Can’t let yourself get moved out of the way routinely.

              6. Too Tall Jones said that he could not play in today’s NFL because of his height and the rule changes (he was 6’9″ like Bob St. Clair) He claimed that his height required that his success come from his ability to attack OTs in the head which is now illegal and that is much more difficult to be successful when you are as tall as he was. Our twin towers are only an inch or so shorter. Jones also played a 4-3 DE at 270 pounds. It is impossible to predict the future but I believe that both Armstead and Buckner should have been converted to OTs if they wanted to have long successful NFL careers. That is where they belong when competing against the very best. If not, they will never be more than role players in a 3-4. Obviously I could be wrong, but I can’t help thinking that we have Tank Caradine v 2.0 only without the injury problem.

  18. I thought a 3-4 defense typically asks the DL to take on two blockers and hold the point more than a 4-3 where often the DL try to shoot the gap? IIRC Warren Sapp was a great example of a DT who played great in a 4-3 when he could shoot the gap, but not so well in a 3-4 where he was often asked to hold the point and take on double teams.

    1. The traditional 3-4 is typically more of a 2-gapping scheme. Not always the case these days though. A lot of 3-4s these days use 1-gap principles. Or a mix of 2-gap and 1-gap.

    2. I think it is also important to recognise that these days the difference between most 3-4s and 4-3s is really one of semantics. There are a lot of hybrid schemes being used.

  19. One of the biggest mistakes this year was letting Driskel go. I have no idea if Driskel was going to be successful or not but at least we would be developing a QB. If the Niners have no plan to use Ponder, that just magnifies the mistake, Driskel should of been the third QB.

    Not sure why people think Garoppolo is going to be available. I think the price would have to be steep to get him and with so many needs and a team with limited talent, would it make sense? No QB is going to fix this team. Watched lots of young guys come in for the starter and looked brilliant, then some team pays a high price and way more often then not its a failure. I am not against Garoppolo, just what its going to take to get him.

    1. Been thinking the same thing about Driskel. They draft him and give him no chance to succeed. What’s up with that?

      1. I totally agree about Drisk. He had one bad game and he got the boot. You could argue that in the other games he looked like the best QB on the team. Same with Ponder, he had one bad game and looked pretty good in the others.

        Gabbert and Kap looked bad throughout the preseason. Both were inaccurate and Gabbert missing the wide open TD was something that continued into the regular season.

        How could anyone see Kap and Gabbert in August and think they would be viable QBs? We should have cut them both and started Ponder. If Ponder sucked we could have seen what Drisk could do. Instead we wasted another year with Kraep and Gab, and Baalke drafted another player that would never see the field for us. Shake my F’n head.

        1. Driskel wasn’t a very good prospect imo. He was a late round pick for a reason and I doubt he becomes anything more than a backup at some point. The bigger issue for me was waiting until the 6th round to draft a QB. That’s where the mistake was truly made.

          1. Correct, the mistake was, ‘not taking one earlier’ for developmental purposes. Some not so smart decision making has manifested into a team that is pretty much in total disarray, and their is no quick fix.

          2. There’s a saying in business that whenever everyone is thinking the same thing, nobody is really thinking. That’s the thing about the 49ers that strikes me. You’re right Rocket, probably dumb to draft a QB in 6th round – but they do it. Then like clockwork the team says OOPS, this guy is not even practice squad material and gives up on him. So in essence they use a 6th round pick for a camp arm. Who is actually thinking in this organization? They all seem to agree that they’re doing something positive but if that were the case, how can they explain the team’s performance on the field? The situation has the markings of a completely dysfunctional organization where everyone is afraid to be held accountable so they just go through the motions and essentially roll with the tide. The bottom line is that this is Baalke’s team. There is no need to analyze specifically where specifically screwed up. Fix the organizational structure and provide for true accountability and succeed. What we have now is insanity.

            1. WC,

              I think it comes down to Baalke being a Parcells devotee, who eschews the skill positions in favor of building a bully. Parcells didn’t have a lot of great skill position players, but he had tough minded attitude that resonated across the roster. It worked for a time in the 80’s, but as the rules changed in favor of the passing game, it became less relevant to have the big RB running behind the big Oline and more about protecting a great QB throwing to highly skilled WR’s and TE’s. Baalke hasn’t moved on from the old school way of thinking.

              Ironically, Harbaugh was the perfect Coach to work in tandem with him. Their philosophies were similar and Harbaugh could get the most out of those types of players. That’s why it was kind of puzzling when they hired Kelly who runs a zone blocking scheme and short passing game. The roster doesn’t fit that type of system because it was built for a power run offense with play action down field passing. We are seeing the results of trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Then there is the simple fact that so many of Baalke’s picks just haven’t worked out, so when you combine that with the prior point about the personnel not matching the scheme, you have the clusterf*ck we see today.

  20. Niners need to address the defense Immediately. No more sitting on their hands and doing nothing. Hopefully, Gamble will poach 3 players off other team’s practice squads, and preferably from a future opponent.

    What could it cost? maybe 1 mil each, so with 45 mil in cap space, it could be easily affordable. It would show that they are trying to win. If they do nothing, they are just flying the white flag, and deserve banners.

    The Niners need to become desperate, because being placid will just lead to more humiliation. Kicking that FG in the second half of last game just turned my stomach, because they went timid, when they needed to go bold.

    They should try out AJ Hawk and bring back Darren Lake.

    They should sit Beadles and move Garnett to his best position at LG, and allow Tiller back at RG. Maybe rotate Beadles and Tiller.

    They should play Skov instead of Bellore, and maybe move Reid down as an ILB, and let Cromartie play safety. Do not know if Tartt is fully healthy, but he should play when the go nickle.

    Niner D is way too passive. They need to attack the line of scrimmage, get penetration and clog the running lanes. Right now, they have to read how the play is going and get pushed out of position way too easily. They should promote Rush, and play Blair.

    At the very least, they should fire O;Neil and promote Tarver, but ideally, they should kick Baalke upstairs, install Gamble as GM, and persuade Tomsula to come back as DC.

    1. Seb,

      When Chip went for the FG I was irate. I had been trying to be less negative but that call was unacceptable. I felt it was my duty to trash that sorry excuse for a coach. He has brought nothing to this team. In fact, he is hurting the team. The play calling is horrible and detectable by any player or coach. The team quit on him against Seattle. I didn’t like Tomsula but I never got this angry about him.

      Please Chip, just go away.

  21. The difference among good and bad teams is simple:

    1) good players – the 49ers have very few
    2) good coaches – the 49ers don’t have this. Part of what made Harbaugh successful was his ability to not only spot and attract good players, but also his ability to do that with a coaching staff.

    We’ve seen the same thing with the Warriors. Kerr brought in a tremendous supporting cast as far as coaches. Yes his roster was loaded, but the guys leading that roster were pretty damn good too which is why they are now with other teams as Head Coaches. You can’t say that about anyone that’s been on the 49ers staff post-Harbaugh.

  22. So of course in an offseason where the Niners need to overhaul the offensive skill positions the strength of the draft through the first two rounds is overwhelmingly on the defensive side.

    Tough to form conclusions this early with some big games coming up and then Bowl season, but I wasn’t a big fan of the potential QB class for the 2017 draft, and it’s looking like there are no franchise caliber QB’s in this draft as of now, and the best one may be a guy who is starting for the first time as Jr. (Trubisky). I’m not a big McShay guy but he made some interesting observations in this article:


    I don’t think the GM whoever that may be when the draft rolls around, can pass up a pass rusher with the first pick. This has the potential to be a great draft for them along with LB’s and CB’s. Just sad to think of how behind the curve Baalke has been ignoring the strength’s of recent drafts – namely WR’s and QB’s – and now the strength of this one is the area he has invested the most in.

      1. Sorry Mid I didn’t realize it was an insider piece when I posted it.

        To avoid Grant getting into trouble for copyright infringement, I’ll summarize for you:

        He has placed the QB’s into tiers:

        Talented but Raw (Wouldn’t take any of them in the first round but belong on day two) – Watson, Kaaya and Kizer

        Lottery tickets (May never be Starters but have some tools and should go in the mid rounds) – Falk, Kelly and Beathard

        Wild Cards (QB’s he hasn’t seen enough of to give a complete evaluation) – Trubisky, Webb.

        This is how he sums up the class in the final paragraph of the article:

        This is as bad a quarterback class as I can remember. Supply never seems to meet demand when it comes to quarterbacks in the draft, but we could be looking at an extreme case this year.

        As it stands now, I don’t see a single franchise savior in the group. That has to concern teams like the Browns, Bears, 49ers and Jets, who could all be in the market for a quarterback in the first round.

        This could change, of course, as I watch more tape (particularly on Trubisky) and as guys continue to develop. But right now, I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking any of these quarterbacks in Round 1.

        It pretty much echos my concerns going into this season on the potential or lack there of, of this class, although I still like Kizer’s pro prospects and am cautiously on board with Trubisky. I think both have above average starter potential, but Trubisky doesn’t have enough games in the bank to be sure at this point. I am also a Falk fan and think at worst he’ll be a great backup.

    1. Yeah, Rocket, so I need to acknowledge the ‘you-told-me-so’. I think it was last spring that I teased you for your relentless negativism about the team. Hmmmmm. I guess you just hit your tipping point before I hit mine.
      eMJ called me (and others) out on that the other day, but this is so FUBAR that it even quashes hope. Hard to avoid pessimism.

      1. BT & Rocket,

        Who, me? Well, yes, me too.

        I also “teased” Rocket for being overly negative. I was all set give Rocket his props, when Aaron Lynch saved me from myself. I don’t know about you, but I was thrilled to hear that not only are the 49ers the best team in their division, but they’re one of the best teams in the conference.

        Nine straight wins, roll through the playoffs, all the way to a victory in the Super Bowl.

        Uh, no, I don’t think so.

      2. I probably deserved it anyway BT. I go overboard on the negativity when I can’t find anything to be positive about. I hate feeling pessimistic, but watching how the offseason unfolded gave me an inkling that it was going to be a tough season. Amazingly, it’s even worse than I thought it would be.

        1. r,
          No worries, you are correct to feel negitive about this team. The moves that so many want to see happen, everything from blowing up the whole thing , to drafting the next fanchise QB. Will not happen as long as York the Younger/aka Jed has anything to do with the hiring of the next GM.
          The Yorks are football stupid. Can’t fix stupid.
          The only way to get Jed out of there is to embarress Denise York. Make her remove Jed and but a football person incharge. Ortherwise this team will continue to be garbage.

    2. rocket,

      I’m starting to move towards your draft opinion. I thought Kizer was a slam dunk until his last game. I agree that Trubisky is a question mark. Kaaya, no not after his last two games. We already have two Watsons on the team.

      Trading for Garoppolo and throwing money at Alshon would help the offense. I would also sign Vincent Jackson or Pierre Garcon. Martellus Bennett would be an upgrade. He’s not a pro bowler but he looks good compared to Vance and Celek.

      I don’t think any defender will willingly play for O’Neil and Kelly so we have address the D through the draft. Hopefully we can get Garrett. Whether we get Garrett or not we have to address the middle of the front seven. Bowman and Williams are injury prone. I believe the defense should be built from the inside out like the Panthers or the Niners of a few years ago.

      1. #80,

        They have to go defense with the first pick imo. There is just so much more talent on that side of the ball at the top of the draft. Trading for Garoppolo would be risky because we still haven’t seen him play very much, but there really is no slam dunk top of the first round QB right now.


        I would expect nothing else. You have held that position for some time now and it’s too early to get a final read on how things will play out. There were not this many negative articles on QB’s at this time last season though.

          1. I agree, but it is what it is unfortunately. There is no question the D needs more investment, whether it is through FA, the draft, trades or some combination of the three.

          2. Unfortunately that could be the only option in the first round unless they trade down Jack. The 2017 draft looks like it could be worse at the QB position than the one with Geno Smith and E.J. Manuel.

            1. Wow. Sorry, that’s hardly looking the case at all. The ‘negativity’ around the QB class atm is more palpable at this point this year than last year largely because the expectations were unrealistically high on some of these guys. But there are still a number of quality QB prospects that look like being available. Much better than the likes of EJ Manuel, Geno Smith and Ryan Nassib, that’s for sure.

              Last year the negativity occurred very early on (before the season even started), and people were then pleasantly surprised by a few guys.

              1. The scouts are saying the draft looks to be the worst in quite some time Scooter. That would include the draft year with Smith and Manuel in it.
                My take on Kizer is he will need a year (maybe two) on the bench before he is ready to contribute on the field. Kaaya meanwhile will need capable playmakers around him when he starts, Watson appears to be a marginal QB at best, and a good evaluation on Trubisky cannot happen until the end of the college season. None of these QBs would be worth a top three pick.

              2. Which scouts, Mid? McShay is one. Who else? There are plenty of scouts that have been saying the QB class looks pretty decent also.

              3. It would take all day if I made a list Scooter. All I know is the various sites I have visited all indicate that scouts feel this is one of the worst drafts for the QB and OT positions in quite a while.

              4. Can you please point me to some of these sites? I would like to read the views of these scouts to get a clearer picture of what scouts are saying about the QBs. Thanks.

              5. “Scout: How could anyone be torn on this quarterback class, Matt? Let me just be blunt—it sucks. You guys anointed [DeShone] Kizer way too soon. [Deshaun] Watson’s touch is really bad down the field. [Brad] Kaaya is [Teddy] Bridgewater 2.0. I don’t want any of these quarterbacks in the top 10 picks. But of course one of them will go early. You should probably go ahead and put Kizer there because the Browns are going to panic and draft him based on size and athleticism. But they shouldn’t. It’s just not a good class.”


              6. Just look up the top draft prospects on various sites. CBS has rated the QBs as 7,13, 31, 46,48, 70 104, 129, 144 and 192, overall.

                They have the top 10 DE going in the first 81 picks. That is where the draft is loaded.

              7. Thanks Jack. I see the Miller report just came out today so I am assuming that isn’t the ones Mid is referring to. Would love to see more takes on this QB class. Seems to me the majority of people still think its a pretty decent class, just lacks any elite talents, which I agree with.

                Also worth noting there were scouts that said the 2016 QB class was terrible right throughout the college season and in the build up to the draft.

    3. I still think the 2017 QB class is shaping up better than the 2016 class. Lets put it in perspective. This time last year there was one QB that was considered a clear cut 1st round prospect, and then Cook and a rising Lynch with not much after them. Wentz was still considered a mid round prospect at best.

      This year there is quite a few QBs considered 1st through 3rd round prospects at this point in time. And as the draft rolls around I expect that to hold up.

      1. My view is that the OL, the running game and the WR weapons are much more important than the body under center. Goff can’t crack the starting lineup no matter how bad Casey is.
        Wentz and Dak both have amazing lines, great running games, and weapons at WR. Neither appeared better than Luck in college but for all his talent, without the supporting cast, the body under center means very little.
        Obviously, the scheme should fit the QB, but as the Matt Castles of the world have shown, its the supporting cast and the system more than it is the QB

    1. No Williams and probably no Bowman. The middle of the defense is my biggest concern. Reid and Bethea are average at best. Ray Ray will be coming off of an injury. Yikes!

      1. Both Reid and Bethea have played well when they’ve had a good front 7 in front of them in the past. Can anyone think of a safety that has looked good when their front 7 sucked? I’m sure there are examples, but I’m thinking there is a strong correlation between terrible front 7 and poor safety play.

        1. Scooter,

          You’re probably right about the front 7 safety correlation. However Bethea is declining due to age. He will only get worse. Since we have more pressing needs in the front 7, the safety position isn’t a high priority. We also have depth at the safety positions with Tarrt and Cromartie. I also see Ward playing Safety within 3 to 5 years.

          As I was writing this I remembered Whitner and Goldson. They were really good when they played behind our once great front 7. Since then they have become marginal players. Good call Scooter.

  23. I think Whitner is available. They should try out AJ Hawk. why not bring back Darren lake?

    The important thing is to try to get better.

    Sometimes, a less talented squad can beat a more talented squad, with the right scheme and good coaching. Obviously, this less talented squad has terrible coaching and a losing mindset.

    No wonder they have a 1-6 record.

  24. Until the Niners shut down the run and are leading into the 4th quarter will we be able to give a reasonable critique of the secondary. I think its suspect myself.

  25. Seb,

    I would give Skov a shot before bringing in AJ. You have been pro Skov so I’m sure you would agree.

    The only upside to Whitner is that he would bring some toughness to the team. Also, if the coaches get tired of Bethea they would probably try out Tarrt and Cromartie before signing someone else.

    The losing mindset is real. The only way to fix that is to fire Kelly and O’ Niel and hire a respected winner like Shanahan or Holmgren. But that is unlikely. It seems like Chip is tanking and the players know it. It’s hard to play for a guy like that.

    1. I want to see if Hawk has anything left, but agree that they should play Skov.

      Baalke, by sitting on his hands and refusing to seriously compete for FAs, is the one who needs to go. If he had outbid the Raiders for Sean Smith, he would not have had to draft 2 CBs. He could have drafted Yannick Ngakoue who went next pick after Redmond, and Dak Prescott who went 2 picks after Robinson.

      I really do not blame Chip. The lack of talent and lack of depth is just too glaring for faulting him for their record.

      I like Cromartie, he has thump.

  26. Niners need to trade back 10 spots and get the other team’s first and second pick.

    They should select Tim Williams OLB or Reuben Foster ILB in the first, Vita Vea DT in the second, and Ryan Anderson OLB or Taco Charlton DE with their other second round pick.

    Kizer or Kayaa could be available in the third, and Davis Webb in the 4th.

  27. Breaking news…49ers are not cooperative with Santa Clara city audit….Don’t know what this means but things are nose diving for the Yorks..good news for us..could they possibly get into legal trouble causing them to have to sell the team?I’m really hoping..Some shady business seems to be going on in the South bay..Sorry don’t know how to post links.

  28. http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/27/13446414/nfl-trade-deadline-rumors-49ers-joe-staley-torrey-smith-seahawks-cardinals-nfc-west

    NFL.com view on trades by the November deadline:

    “NFL.com put together a logical move for each team in the NFL. In the NFC section, they kept it pretty simple with the 49ers: “Sell anything anyone is possibly interested in who wasn’t a recent first- or second-round pick. The 49ers section focused on Joe Staley and Torrey Smith. They suggested potential compensation could be a second-round pick for Staley, and a fifth-round pick for Smith. In terms of potential partners, they listed the Broncos and Vikings for Staley, and the Ravens, Eagles, Panthers, and Cowboys for Smith.”

  29. Anyone else think that the apparent “fire sale” and settlements that are happening or will happen is a prelude to obtaining players that meet Kelly’s approval/criteria. If so, then he most likely is going nowhere including by choice.

  30. Grant I see that you interview or ask questions to coaches. Do you ever get to interview or ask questions to Jed York? If you do, maybe next time you speak to him ask him a very tough question.
    Ask him that if he found someone better qualified at his own position, CEO, would he relinquish his position to that person. Basically fire himself for the betterment of the team.

  31. I believe Chip has his own agenda, he knows Baalke is mentally delayed in picking talent. Waiting for Tom Gamble to take over as GM,. Also Chip has a boat load of money and does not have the stress as the conman working stiff does if he sucks at his job, and hie is guaranteed a job at the college level. Also our media is well behaved compared the Phili. Yes the man is on a vacation for a year.

  32. I am resigned to see this once proud franchise become the butt of jokes. It is so bad, my Seahawk friend feels sorry for me while the Raiders fans are gloating. They sure like to bring up Crabtree’s stats.

    I am glad they will fly banners, because only further humiliation will drive the Niners to do something. If Jed cannot show his face without being berated and attacked with slurs and insults, maybe he will realize that he just is not cut out to be an owner, and would be much happier in another profession.

    The Niners need an intervention. Jed and Baalke, by leaking out the fact that they are shopping Staley and Torrey, have continued with a horrendous way to conduct business. No class organization would float out ideas that they want to get rid of 2 of their best players just to save money.

    This is proof that they want to intentionally lose, just to be rewarded with a high draft position. The only problem is that they will become like the Browns and Jax, perennial losers.

    Niners need Holmgren, Shanahan, Sieffert, Mariuchi and Rhodes, along with some of their SB winning players to form a committee, and make recommendations to save the team. They would be the only hope to turn around this dysfunctional dumpster fire.

    1. Would love to see the Yorks just step out of the way and hire Holmgren as team president..Let him fiND his own g.m and coach and let’s rebuild this thing right

  33. 49ers 2017 NFL Mock Draft

    2)DeShone Kizer, QB, ND-He’s the best in the class. Progressions, Pocket Manipulation, Accuracy, Size, Arm strength. Plus he can run inside just like Newton.
    34)Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan-Tall, long and strong polished senior wide out who can do it all.
    66)Marquis Haynes, OLB/DE, Ole Miss-Natural pass rusher with power.
    98)Azeem Victor, ILB, Washington-Sideline to sideline, all day long. Nasty disposition.
    130)Sony Michel, RB, Georgia-Size and deceptive speed that’s a playmaker.


    Dontari Poe, NT, Kansas City
    Jamie Collins, ILB/OLB New England
    Michael Floyd, WR Arizona

    1. I prefer Alshon Jeffrey.

      Actually, I wish Baalke would have drafted Alshon Jeffrey, who went 15 picks after AJ Jenkins. Maybe the Niners would have gotten a couple more rings if he had done that.

    2. Draft position questions to all.

      – Will the 49ers really draft first or second?

      – What if they win a few junk (season) time games towards then end of the season?

      – Will the 49ers lose draft position on the SOS tiebreaker again?

      Bottom 5 teams (in terms of record) as it stands… Jags 2-5, Panthers 1-5, Bears 1-6, 49ers 1-6, Browns 0-7.

      I expect the Panthers will do better. The Jags could potentially flop. The 49ers could draft anywhere from 2nd to as low as 5th.

      1. I think Jeff Fischer will throw the next to last game like he did last year. That will probably drop us down from 2nd to 4th.

      2. – Yes.
        – The best chance for the 49ers to
        another game is the one against
        the Saints and the Bears.
        – Not with a run defense capable of
        allowing someone on crutches to
        rush for over 100 yards and the
        below – average QBs.

        1. If we can’t get Poe from KC, we should look at drafting Vita Vea from WA, to put between The Twin Towers….

    3. Nice one razor.

      A couple of areas I would question. I think they need an edge player more desperately than you have them taking one. If they aren’t going to draft one in the first 2 rounds they need to sign one. They should probably do both. And I think they need a TE.

      I’m also not a Floyd fan. He’s a marginal #2 WR. With Smith, Floyd and Davis they would have a bunch of #2 guys, but still no real #1.

      1. Edge looks to be deep to me, Scooter. I agree with you about the TE situation. I was thinking Jeffery will be overpriced and Floyd might be a good value. You’re probably right, though. Like you said, it’s impossible to plug all the holes on this sinking Chip in one year….

    4. Way too early for one of these Razor. We need to wait and see who declares and who decides to stay in college for another year.

        1. That is true. Who do you like if Kizer is not available? Would you draft Garrett or trade down?

    1. Garoppolo looked much better than Osweiler did at the Broncos imo. He also looked good as a prospect in the 2014 draft. He’s a risk, of course he is, but is he more or less of a risk than any QB they would draft? Logically you’d have to think less of a risk. He’s been impressive pretty much whenever given an opportunity, in preseason and regular season.

        1. The 49ers should pass if the Patriots want anything higher than a third round pick.

          1. You and I clearly have a different idea of the right price then. Patriots paid a 2nd rounder for him, he’s impressed when he’s played… seems unrealistic that a 3rd would be the best the Patriots can get for him.

            Personally I would be willing to hand over a 1st and 4th this year and a 3rd next year, so long as you are able to get him to sign to a long term extension. That would be my upper limit and obviously aim to pay less, but if you think he’s a better prospect than the guys in the draft and you need a QB, what are your other options?

            1. Although he has impressed, Garappolo has not played enough games to merit a high level of compensation Scooter. I do not believe a GM would have his job for long if he decided to pull the trigger on the deal you are suggesting.

              1. Mid, he’s a young, high round draft pick (i.e. he has natural talent) that has impressed whenever he has played (i.e. he has shown an ability to translate that talent to the NFL field). You aren’t trading for past production, you are trading on potential. Just like when you draft a player, except this guy has some NFL experience under his belt.

                It’s obviously a huge risk giving up that much for him. Admittedly I am a bit biased in that I really liked him prior to the 2014 draft also, so I am basing this on more than just his play in the NFL which for me is more a confirmation of what I thought of him in 2014.

              2. If he was the missing piece to the 49ers returning to being a contender, then I would agree with you Scooter. However, that is far from the case. The team desperately needs an edge rusher, DT/NT, and WR1. While I would like to see the 49ers get some free agents to fill at least two of these needs, the likelihood of that occurring is fairly low due to the stigma surrounding the 49ers.

              3. Yeah, no doubt they have a lot needs. But realistically they aren’t going to be able to address them all in one off season. When you have a shot at a guy you think could be your franchise QB and you need one, hard to pass it up no matter your other needs.

              4. Scooter:

                Remind me again why the Patriots would let Jimmy G go. He’ll be a FA after next season. That give Tom B. one more season after this. How much longer can Brady go?

              5. To avoid potentially losing him for nothing after next season. Brady seems to be keen to keep playing for a few more years yet. But they would need to get an offer they believe is worth making the trade.

              6. Do you think Brady’s desires take precedence over what is best for the Patriots? Montana and other QBs in their later years were moved on. BB is considered to be all business isn’t he?

                Finally, if they make JG a decent offer why wouldn’t he want to stay with a winning team especially one with over a decade with a winning track record. Odds are he would have his most success with NE and that would bring a host of commercial offers.

              7. They don’t hit quarterbacks like they used to. Brady can easily play another 3-5 years. He takes care of his body the same way he prepares for an opponent….

              8. Scooter – I agree he is better then anything coming out this year and maybe next year also. Its a high risk move as if it fails then the setback will be longer. I am not opposed to it just leery of it, most cases it fails. There are so many positions of need giving up that much draft capita is really risky. Also there is not a QB out there that is going to turn around this team. By the way Kelly isn’t going anywhere.

                I might add, people have not really noticed, but under Kelly’s regime there seems to be more open and wide open receivers that I have not seen for many years. If he can see the entire field read defenses and get the ball to the open receiver on target most of the time then maybe the risk is worth it.

              9. Cubus, that’s the big q ahead for the Patriots – stick with Brady or look to the future. My gut says they stick with Brady for a few more years, despite his age.

                JG won’t want to stay with a team where he won’t get to play as it means he also won’t get paid like a starter.

                UC, I think he’s worth the risk, but as I said earlier I am a bit biased on this one.

              10. Prime, Cassel was a 7th round pick. Garoppolo a 2nd. There is a difference in natural talent. If Garoppolo hadn’t looked a good prospect before playing for the Patriots I wouldn’t be that interested in him.

              11. But realistically they aren’t going to be able to address them all in one off season.

                Never said they would, but the team could be picking in the 1-3 range Scooter. That alone makes such a trade as unlikely unless Garappolo is able to become the next Montana or Young.

              12. Mid, it all comes down to whether you (where you = person making the decision) believe Garoppolo can be a franchise calibre QB. If you don’t, don’t make the trade. If you do, it’s worth giving up a top 5 draft pick for him. That simple.

              13. There is a whole lot more to it that just that Scooter. Getting Garappolo would not fix the OL, hands of McDonald, bad WR corps, and shoddy play calling; it also will not fix the abysmal front seven.

              14. Of course. Just like getting a new edge rusher, new WRs etc won’t fix the QB issue. That’s why I said you can’t fix everything in one off season. But you can’t pass up a potential franchise QB if you think you have a shot at one and need one.

              15. You could make the same argument in regards to potential with Kizer.
                The 49ers front office has made a habit of failing to capitalize on positions that are strong in the draft, and it has come back to bite them every time. Would it be smart to do so again?

              16. If you firmly Kizer has the potential to be a good starting QB in the NFL then yeah, take him if you have a shot at him. If you don’t think he does, don’t. You don’t pass up a shot at a guy you think will be the franchise QB for the next decade when you know you don’t already have one.

              17. You don’t pass up a shot at a guy you think will be the franchise QB for the next decade when you know you don’t already have one.

                I firmly believe Kizer is franchise material and that’s why I will continue to pound the table for him to be the pick….

              18. That is my point. Do you spend several high picks on a QB who has only started a couple of games, lock him up with a costly contract, and risk a potential Matt Cassell situation? Or do you spend a high pick on a QB prospect with loads of potential but still needing to develop, throw him into the fire, and risk a quick flame out?
                I believe the 49ers should test the waters on Garappolo, but if the asking price is higher than a third round pick, then they should pass and wait until 2018 to draft a QB whilst having a stopgap option for the 2017 season.

              19. Scooter, Bill Walsh went from 6-10 to a SB win, so it can be done.

                Of course, I do not see another Bill Walsh leading the team…..

                Garappolo did well in the Pats system under BB, but if he came here, he might get the Blaine Gabbert treatment.

              20. Mid, you simply never know if a player will pan out. There is always risk. But if you believe a player will be a good starting QB in the NFL they are worth giving up a lot to get. Even if you don’t have all the pieces around them right away.

                And I’m not suggesting the 49ers should trade the farm for Garoppolo. Aside from a 1st round pick, which they would need to spend if they thought one of the QBs in the draft was a top QB prospect anyway, it is only a 4th this year and 3rd next. And that’s the upper limit I would go, I would be aiming to give up less than that.

                With FA and the draft the 49ers should be adding some receivers to throw to, as well as adding some pieces to the defense.

              21. That is still a fairly high pick no matter how you look at it Scooter. If the draft was today the 49ers would be picking second. Are you telling me you would trade that pick for a QB who has only started a couple of games in a QB friendly offense and put him in a run-first offense?

              22. Yes, but I would be looking at it as drafting a player with a lot of natural talent who’s only real question mark coming out of college was level of competition but who has now shown he can translate his college game to the NFL.

                If all you can see is his NFL resume then he’s worth not much.

              23. That is not all I see Scooter. I was stating that the team should trade for Garappolo before the debacle of a season had even begun. I still believe he would be a great addition, but he would be a costly pickup because he would probably ask for a huge contract, and the reality is that no GM would trade a top five pick to acquire a QB so little and pay a hefty sum to sign him.

              24. No GM would?

                If Garoppolo wants a ridiculous contract then don’t extend him, let him earn it for a year. You have the franchise tag to keep him if needed. But I think you could get him to sign a reasonable contract commensurate with the fact he’s yet to prove himself in the NFL.

              25. Even the ‘terrible’ contract Osweiler signed is really only a 2-year commitment, and he had the opportunity to work FA to get the highest offer. Garoppolo would not. I think a deal could be worked out that suits both parties and doesn’t over commit the 49ers if he doesn’t pan out.

              26. The same thing was said about Kaepernick and his contract; that did not turn out so well.

              27. So don’t include an injury guarantee. You are really stretching for reasons not to do such a deal now. Let’s keep it to your main point, which is it is a lot to give up for an unknown commodity. I don’t disagree. It really does come down to whether or not you believe in Garoppolo. And I do, so I would make that trade.

              28. You are really stretching for reasons not to do such a deal now.

                It is called looking at all angles Scooter. When it comes down to it, the arguments made for Garoppolo are the same ones that can be made for Kizer. Throw into the equation that there are some quality play makers such as Garrett and Allen that could be had with the second pick, so the question remains the same. Why would a GM trade a high pick for a QB with little starting experience and give him a pricey contract with those options?

              29. And the same answer will keep coming back – because you don’t pass up an opportunity for a good quality QB when you need one. It is still the most important position on the field. A good QB can do more to help your team win than an excellent DE, for example. And more importantly, it is harder to work around a poor QB than a poor DE.

              30. Also, the same arguments can’t be made for Kizer as Garoppolo. Different situations. Kizer has never stepped on an NFL field and performed.

              31. NFL starting experience is the only area where you can’t, but I doubt a GM would hold that against Kizer.

            2. If the Pats still need a LT we might be able to get Garoppolo for Staley, a 2nd round pick, and a late round pick.

              1. It might be more that Garappolo is a good fit for that system, and their third stringer can run that offense, but Bellichick will not totally rely on a 39 year old QB, and not have a top notch backup. Brissett is too much of a gamble.

              2. Who would be the LT then? Brown is more suited to the RT position, and the team does not have a heir apparent.

  34. So sad, the Niners are so bad, they have HOF players trying to talk about everything else except the Niners.

    Now we have posters talking more about future draft picks, which is an effort in futility because every draft choice will probably be different after the college season, the Bowl games, the combine and Free Agency.

    Guess many want the Niners to lose them all, and with this FO doing nothing, they may be right.

    1. Nice. I would welcome any one of those players. I wanted Skov because I did not like Bellore, but those 3 ILBs may be upgrades. Looks like he did his homework.

      I would also possibly poach Deandrew White from the Patriots. They should execute obtaining at least 4 of those players, if they want to win.

      Too bad they are intent on losing.

      1. Like the article says this isn’t how you build winning teams. Would it make us more competitive, maybe. What would it be like if everyone in the NFL didn’t rush for 150yds a game on us?

      2. What’s behind your love for White? He couldn’t be out the WR’s already on the roster in head to head competition.

        1. Wilson, White has talent, and if Bellichick likes him enough to sign him, I would consider him worthy of the Niner’s attention.

          Additionally, he knows the Niner system, played in the OTAs and all through TC. He would be a good candidate for Kick off returner, so Torrey does not have to do that (Remember Ellington?)

          Finally, he would be able to provide intel on the Pats, something the Niners do not think is important, but could help them win games. That is also why I want Justin Hamilton from the Seahawks. Maybe the Niners should learn from Pete Carrol and his propensity to poach Niner players. They won a SB, and were one pass from winning back to back, and those poached players helped them out.

      1. Bengals- Paul Dawson ILB, Steelers- Travis Feeney ILB, Deandrew White WR, and Justin Hamilton, a 6’2″ 315 lbs DT from the Seahawks.

        I would cut Bellore, Hodges, Streater and Shepherd

    1. Naw, at most it will just mean a slap on the wrist.

      What will get their attention is a half empty stadium and banners flying.There are just some things that money cannot buy. Respect is one of them.

      I hope Jed becomes so humiliated and excoriated that his wife will demand that he steps down for the sake of his child, because he will become reclusive, disoriented, paranoid and discombobulated..

  35. Revealing litmus tests today for quarterbacks. Kizer and his catholic’s versus Kaaya and his convict’s. Browning and his Huskie OL versus the Utah brUte’s up front. I still believe Browning will be a first round pick in 2018….

      1. If we can’t get Kizer this year, I’d go for Browning next year. Not a fan of Barrett and Kizer is more developed as a passer than Newton was. He’s got franchise written all over him. If you like Prescott, you should like Kizer….

        1. 2018 class of QBs could be epic. Jackson, Browning, Rosen(Health Permits) have a chance to be all top 10 picks. 2017 the clear cut #1 pick is Myles Garrett. No one will pass on Garrett first overall. If we pick second then I would be for drafting Kizer. Love what I see in ability from him. His team is bad but he flashes that Franchise QB traits. If we pick third and can’t get either I say we draft the DT from Bama… He looks like a bigger A Donald.. He is the kind of player who will benefit our twin towers in a major way… First and foremost gut the entire Front Office and hope Chip returns to colllege… Kyle Shanahan would be my first choice… IF patriots are willing to trade Jimmy G that won’t include our top 3 pick jump all over it.. Jimmy G will be very good…

        2. Kizer and Kayaa may be available in the second round, and with Kaep probably leaving, he may be needed.

          However, if they do not select Myles Garrret, Jonathan Allen or Malik McDowell to help the defense, they are brain dead.

          1. Kizer will be a top 5 pick if he declares. Easy! You don’t draft Mcdowell cause he is duolicate to what they just drafted. Allen is the pick if there picking third. With that said, I expect the Niners to not win another game. Myles Garrett baby!!!!

            1. Reuben Foster may be a good ILB that the Niners should look hard at.

              I still want the Niners to win, but you may be right. Since they refuse to try and get better, and are keeping O’Neil, they are intentionally losing.

            1. My intrigue to see what Kaepernick could do in Chip Kelly’s offense has dissipated, and his departure is all but assured. In fact, I’ve seen enough of Chip Kelly’s offense to pray a college team backs up the pickup full of cash into his yard and takes him off our hands. I’ll even throw in his entire coaching staff along with Baalke and Gamble….

              1. Helfrich may be on his way out, and like JH and Michigan, Chip may find Oregon as a good fallback option.

            2. Prime, you said that Kaep took the league by storm.
              I just think he will do it again, especially on a team that recognizes his worth, and he will play for a team that has talent.

              1. This year. The Niners have pride, and will want to kick some arse. Maybe take out their frustrations on their opponent. With more reps with his receivers, Kaep will sync up. If they can hit a couple long plays, the Niners will be competitive. That, and getting some competent defensive coaching and player who are not only ST and PS players.

      1. Scooter, if you recall after the Huskie Cardinal game, I said Browning looked like a first round pick. I’m really impressed with his accuracy and progression. Petersen is an enticing coach, not only in terms of character and establishing reputable programs where ever he coaches, I like his style of offense and play calling. Going to look into how much of his staff he retained from Boise. He seems rock solid. If I was LSU, I’d go after him….

        1. I like Anthony Lynn, the new OC for the Bills, but I agree, Peterson is a good tactician and a great motivator. Seems like he gets the most out of his players.

          Daniels would be ideal, but he is too smart to come here, and may be the heir apparent to Bellichick in a few years.

  36. He’s going to get beat up because of the system he’s in but the prospect I’m starting to become the most interested in is Pat Mahomes. A quick glance at the statistical production of the top 7 or so QB’s and Mahomes is the only to consistently improve in most categories each year.

    I like Trubisky but hate that he only had 125 attempts coming into this season. This is a player that I would really love to see return for his senior year. If he continues on his current arc he could put himself in position to be the first QB off the board in 2018.

    Chad Kelly is the next most interesting player at the moment. It’s too bad that he’s not playing quite as well as he did last year but he put up big numbers that would be hard for any player to duplicate in College. It’s unfortunate that he wont have another year. Likely he’ll be at the Senior Bowl and his performance there will help to solidify what kind of prospect he really is.

    I’m not convinced that we should use our first round pick on one of the “top 3” prospects at the moment which is why I left their names out. I also don’t think people should cast off Watson like I’m seeing done. He could be the better prospect of the bunch.

    1. Heard a lot about Kelly this week. To be completely honest I haven’t seen him play at all, but he sounds like a guy who’s fiery. I like that.

      1. Right now it’s a coin flip. They’re very close imo. Gun to my head I’d slide Mahomes in front of Lynch.

        1. Me too. I am surprised Mahomes doesn’t get more attention as a possible 1st rounder given that. Though I think it is really more of an indication the 2016 QB class wasn’t really that strong.

    2. Regarding Watson, I agree to a point. He really reminds me of RGIII as a player. If he has a better mental makeup than RGIII he could be a pretty good pro, so long as he stays healthy. If the 49ers drafted him I do think he’d be a pretty good fit for Chip Kelly’s offense.

  37. We need not only good players but intense, highly competitive players. Looks like Peppers from Michigan fits the bill, but we might not be in a position to take him since we probably can’t afford to take him with our first pick.

      1. There is zero chance Peppers gets the Hesiman over Jackson…Peppers is very good but Jackson is outrageous! Plus Jackson has made Louisville legit while Peppers has the pleasure in playing under that terrible coach the Niners got rid of. Jim Haurbagh what a hack! ?????

      2. When you consider Jackson plays the most difficult position in sports along with his production, he’s the clear choice for the Heisman….

        1. Peppers has made plays on offense and defense. Jackson can’t top that. I like Jackson and think he will be the top pick in 2018, but players like Peppers don’t show up that often.

          1. I don’t care if Peppers has made plays on both sides of the ball. Jackson has the ball in his hands every snap, and has put up Tecmo Bowl numbers in the most competitive conference, at the most difficult position in all of sports. My vote is overwhelmingly for Jackson….

            1. Jack of all trades and master of none, and consequently has technique issues in coverage. He’ll need a creative coaching staff to utilize his versatility. BB, Horton, Bowles, and of course LeBeau would be ideal. Probably goes top ten. Great athleticism. New age safety, just keep him out of too much traffic and I wouldn’t put him in too many return duties to protect him….

              1. I have seen comps of him to Polamalu and Woodson when he was at Green Bay.

              2. You are the first one I have seen that says that Razor.

                That’s ok. I’m just a hack anyways….

    1. From The Girl Scouts of America getting bumped out of their SuperBowl week sleep-over for a more lucrative rock concert, to Tim Kawakami getting stiffed by the York’s on a dinner bill and a threatened lawsuit of Kawakami for reporting 49er profits, to hiring channeling dark money against mayor Gilmore and now failing to turn over critical documents regarding how measure J was ignored by allowing Santa Clara tax dollars to fund Levi Stadium events, the York’s are doing their best to make enemies of every entity that involves money making for them.

      If fans don’t know the York’s have no passion for the football product they display, only for their own pocketbooks, then all one has to do to educate themselves is to ask themselves why the York’s are never proactive inseason by making a public statements to fans regarding the State of the 49ers.

      Even Presidents offer citizens some hope by making a State of the Union speech, not Jed….Nothing….Why….He does Not Care !!!

  38. Tim Kawakami Verified account 
    I’ve been asked when specifically Jed might’ve ignored Eddie D’s advice. I believe Eddie pointedly advised him not to fire Harbaugh.

  39. Tim Kawakami Verified account 
    From overnight: Updated 49ers Scapegoat list, with Chip Kelly moving up and a quick DeBartolo-York explainer…

  40. Just for the record, I wouldn’t have kicked there, let alone take the penalty. I would have called Kizer’s number for the score….

    1. Razor, I see some of the things you want to see in a QB, but just wonder if his play will translate into the NFL. ND was fortunate. They gave up 2 fumbles but had a pick to compensate. They had a 148 yards to 18 yards rushing differential, so that needs to be factored in. Thought both QBs did well, but the Irish did not score from the 10:30 mark in the second quarter to 6 minutes left in the game. It is amazing how a decent O line will make the running game go, and help out a QB, whose main jobs are to get the ball into the hands of his playmakers, and do not turn the ball over. At least for this game. Some of the previous games were less than stellar.

      Maybe like Procise, the Niners should look at Josh Adams.

  41. TE is a need, Pharaoh Brown, Oregon, 6’6″ 250lbs. Can be had in the late rounds. This guy “wants the ball”, can take a big hit and holds on to the ball. Almost lost his part of his leg due to a football injury.

    Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon, 6’5″ 225lbs, 19 years old. He is the new starting QB for Oregon. He is running a big time program at 19. First half today, 3 touchdowns 320 yards. He is someone to watch.

    1. If he declares, David Njoku from Miami would be a decent receiving TE option I think. Aesome athlete. Reportedly runs sub 4.5 at 6’4″ 245lbs, and is a pretty fluid athlete to go with it.

    1. I think both QBs showed their good and bad today. Kizer has the physical tools but is pretty raw still. Kaaya is tough, smart and makes some great throws when given time, but his lack of mobility in the pocket combined with a poor OL leads to too many pressured throws and sacks.

      Both are good not great prospects in my opinion.

    2. I think an interesting question is which of the junior QBs will declare this year? I’m starting to think Kaaya stays for his senior year. Kizer might also given how the year has gone, and if Trubisky doesn’t maintain his hot start he might stay for another year too to get more experience.

      1. I think all three should stay in college for another year even if they finish the year strong.

        1. If they did, that would definitely change my opinion on the 2017 QB class. But 2018 could be something else.

        2. OK…..but then we’ll be left with Ponder and…..uh…..DeBerg?….Marinovich?..Sanchez at QB for 2017?
          : -)

          1. That could allow the team to set up a situation in which the QB selected in 2018 would not be dealing with a messier situation.

            1. They would still need to add a QB or 2 this off season. Can’t just raise the white flag and aim for a high draft pick in 2018 to draft your QB. If a bunch of prospects stayed in college for another year it just increases the chances of getting a bad one… and over paying for the privilege.

              1. Not saying they should raise the white flag. If Garoppolo is available for the right price, then the team should trade for him and draft a quality backup with the potential to be a starter. If not, then they can probably get a stopgap option like Romo and draft a franchise QB in 2018. Meanwhile, the defense and offense can be rebuilt into something better.

              2. Yeah, but your idea of the right price is a 3rd rounder. No real reason for the Pats to take that deal, since they can probably get a 3rd for him in the form of a comp pick once he leaves in FA. May as well keep him as insurance for Brady. To entice the Pats to trade him they will likely need an offer considerably better than a 3rd.

                Romo can’t stay on the field and everyone knows it. He’s a stop gap only if you have the young QB waiting in the wings on your roster already. You can’t expect him to play a full season as he hasn’t for a long time. So if you get Romo, chances are you are still drafting a QB of the future this year pretty high anyway.

              3. Razor – How exactly is it defeatist if the best option is to address other areas on the team and wait until 2018 to get the franchise QB, especially if Kizer is not available and Garoppolo is not on the trade market?

                Scooter – While you are offering what is currently the second pick of the draft plus a fourth this year and a third round for 2018. That is ridiculously high for someone with little starting experience. No GM would make that deal.

              4. Can’t just raise the white flag and aim for a high draft pick in 2018 to draft your QB.

                Was in reference to Scooter’s characterization of your plan….

              5. If you say so Mid. Its less than the Rams and Eagles gave up for guys with 0 NFL experience though. And similar to what the Vikings gave up for a guy that has only been an average starting NFL QB.

              6. Those are completely different situations Scooter. If you can provide an example of a team trading a top 5 pick for a QB who has been on the bench since being drafted and only has a couple of starts under his belt, then that will show that it could possibly happen.

              7. First round pick. And that was for a guy that hadn’t performed well as a pro. But the GM believed in the player.

                Can you provide me an example of where a young QB drafted high and had looked impressive in his limited action was traded? I can’t give you examples of compensation because I can’t think of any real situations where this has even been an option before.

              8. Sorry Scooter, but you did not provide an answer to my question. A top 5 pick is different from the 19th pick. You are only basing it on the first round pick scenario, but a top 5 pick carries significantly more weight. Therefore, the Brett Favre trade does not count.

              9. Did you read my second paragraph? I know. I can’t think of any example like this. Show me an example where a young high round QB that had played well was traded away.

                Favre is the closest to it, and he was a train wreck head case that the Falcons didn’t want anymore and they still got a 1st rounder for him.

              10. That is my point Scooter. The scenario which you suggested to get Garoppolo has never happened, and it is very likely it won’t, especially if Baalke is still around after this season.

              11. Mid, seriously, WTF? Your point all along was this hasn’t happened before? BS. Your point has been that a top 5 pick is too much for him. And you tried using lack of precedent to back it up. But lack of precedent does not infer anything about a relevant value. So you have to use other measures to try and find a relevant value, which is where the Favre trade, Bradford trade, Goff and Wentz trades etc come into play.

                Where does Garoppolo’s value fit in amongst that? I don’t know, but I wou.d be willing to give up a top 5 pick for a young, talented guy I thought would be a good NFL QB and had some NFL experience to back up that thought to some degree. And I think a lot GMs would feel the same way.

              12. History indicates otherwise Scooter. I know you like the guy, but you proposed an unrealistic trade scenario to get him.

              13. There is no history mate. We covered this. You think it is unrealistic. Good for you. I gave my idea as to what I would be willing to give up for him. You disagree. Big whoopty.

                Neither of us know what NFL GMs would be willing to give up in such a scenario because such a scenario hasn’t been available before. Your comment that a GM would be fired for making such a deal is again, just your opinion.

              14. No. Relevance? What, because Garoppolo is the backup to Brady he should be looked at as just a backup? That’s ridiculous.

                Obviously if you are trading for Garoppolo you are doing so because you think he will be your starting QB. How much you are willing to give up for him will depend on how much you believe in him as your starting QB long term.

              15. Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that Garoppolo should be viewed as a backup, but the reality is that he IS a backup. So yes it is relevant whether you choose to accept or ignore it.

                How much you are willing to give up for him will depend on how much you believe in him as your starting QB long term.

                Or if the GM can get him at a good price without giving up too much.

              16. Mid, you know full well (or at least should) that trade talks for Garoppolo would be based on him being a future starter, not his current situation as a backup.

                “Or if the GM can get him at a good price without giving up too much.”

                How much you are willing to pay and what you have to pay are two very different things. I don’t know how many times I have to say I am outlining the maximum I would give up for him and that I would start out looking to give up less. If you can get him for less then obviously do so and happy days.

              17. Mid, you know full well (or at least should) that trade talks for Garoppolo would be based on him being a future starter, not his current situation as a backup.

                Yes I do know that, but I also know no GM would give up a top 5 pick to get him because it could not only end his tenure with the team, but likely his time in the NFL as well if the owner does not see the results he wants to.

                I don’t know how many times I have to say I am outlining the maximum I would give up for him and that I would start out looking to give up less.

                The maximum you have suggested would make more sense if it was a second round pick instead of a first round pick given where the 49ers could be drafting. It is still pricey, but it would be more likely to occur; however, the third round pick for 2018 should be dropped as well.

              18. And we’re back to your opinion. I’m happy for you to believe what you want to believe about his value.

                Let’s look at this from a different perspective. If you were the Patriots, what would you be after and what would be the lowest you’d go for him? Keeping in mind this is a guy that if you hold onto him gives you a quality backup for at least another year and if Brady retires or gets a career ending injury would likely be the heir apparent. If you let him go, you have to find another guy that can potentially be the future of your franchise.

              19. This discussions has been based on opinions Scooter with the difference being no precedence set for what you have proposed in regards to a trade.

                If you were the Patriots, what would you be after and what would be the lowest you’d go for him? Keeping in mind this is a guy that if you hold onto him gives you a quality backup for at least another year and if Brady retires or gets a career ending injury would likely be the heir apparent.

                Every team with a franchise QB faces that type of scenario Scooter, so having Garoppolo really would not change their view in any way. If they plan on keeping Garoppolo, then they will do so; if they wish to trade him, then they will take what they see as the best offer.

              20. If you believe Jimmy G is a better prospect then the QBs in the 2017 draft you give up a first as long that it’s not the first overall pick. Myles Garrett would have to be the pick.

              21. I suppose it might be possible to trade the 49ers high 1st round pick for additional picks and then trade the lower 1st round pick received for Jimmy G. Sounds good in theory but probably difficult in practice unless you can work out all of the trades prior to the start of the first day of the draft.

              22. Just want to say Mid, thanks for the good discussion. You make good points. Don’t take my opposing view as an indication I don’t think you are making good points.

              23. The same goes for you. You bring some topics and information bits every time Scooter. I enjoy our discussions whether we are agreeing or disagreeing on something.

            2. If the draft was held today, the 49ers would be drafting second RAW. You would be giving up the chance to draft Garrett if the Browns or another team passes on him in favor of Kizer or another prospect.

              1. Yea, ND isn’t going to get rid of Kelly unless he follows up next year with another losing record….

  42. Thoughts on Chad Kelly, “I love being a gunslinger, and getting into gunslinger mode; you don’t get that from dinking and dunking all the time,” he says. “Although I know I need to tone down that mindset some. A good quarterback just needs to get his team down the field.”

    How can you not like that mindset? I’d have great trepidation taking him on this team after Kaepernick, but I like the way he thinks on offense….

    1. He’s a little too Jay Cutler for my liking. Got talent, but questionable decision-making both on and off the field.

  43. It is nice surmising about quarterbacks now, but I really like to wait until after the Bowl games to gauge their pro level readiness. Those Bowl games are against strong opponents in a pressure cooker environment.
    Sometimes it takes a Joe Montana in the Cotton Bowl to see the grittiness and determination. He had the intangibles.

    1. Bowl games do not always tell the whole story; you need to look at the entire picture, even when it is still developing.

      1. I do not mind speculating, but one should not declare any QB is another Joe Montana in October. After the combine will give the best assessment, and still they may miss out on the intangibles and intrinsic strengths.

  44. I have a hard time seeing Chip passing on Watson at 2… Fits Chips system perfect… If Chip is still there.

    1. That’s what I’m afraid of, and why I sure would like a college team to take him off our hands. Time to get a proven NFL offense, and shelve the college offensive experiment….

      1. I would prefer a whole new FO and coaching staff.. I got to say that Watson looks really good tonight. Against a quality opponent on the road. He reminds of a bigger R Wilson..

  45. Getting the first pick and selecting Garrett then taking a QB like Kelly, Falk in Rnd 2 best case scenario?

    1. Well, I think Falk should be a 1st rounder, so if they get Garrett and Falk their first two picks I would be very happy.

        1. That is a scenario where getting a stop gap like Romo makes sense. Let Falk sit for awhile, and if Romo gets hurt (which he will) then Falk can step in and get his feet wet.

          1. You guys are harping on my addition of Romo into my post way too much. He was just an example of a stopgap, not what I want.

              1. We really will not know until free agency. There could be some surprise cuts which could happen.

            1. I still believe the best approach is to find a GM capable of identifying a franchise quarterback and then having a proven, traditional yet creative offensive NFL mind to coach him up. We happen to have neither, so the gap may be too wide to stop….

              1. I agree, but sadly the likelihood of the York family doing so is next to none.

      1. Me too. Though I thought this was one of his poorer games this year. Still got a sack and a few hits and hurries though.

  46. Gotta love Falk’s toughness. And great ball placement and tough on that 4th TD pass. Really think he is underrated nationally.

  47. Meandering thoughts…

    If it were sunny I’d have a day out and about, but its pouring in these thar hills. Oatmeal party! Porridge on my friends.

    No 49er game today, but I kinda wish KNBR should do a pregame show anyway.

    1. Yeah Brodie. I turned on the Seahawks-Saints game and they’re showing the dummy London game; so I switched to the RayDuhs-Bucs

  48. The Niner players from the Glory Years HATED to lose. They never wanted to lose, and they won it all. They built up expectations that they were going to win every game, and that winning mentality carried off the field, too. They thought and acted like champions.They were consumed with winning. Brent Jones said they were not hungry for wins, they were starved for wins, and put every bit of effort to achieve their goals. This team has a -What, me worry? attitude.

    This present team wants to lose, and even if they are rewarded a high draft position, they will choose marginal players, and continue losing. Just look at the FO. They are sitting on 45 mil, and are doing nothing. They are too cheap to poach players from other team’s practice squad, and cannot recognize talent if it hit them in the face.

    Baalke is a dead man walking, and the sooner the Niners get rid of his stench, the sooner they may get back to winning.

  49. I believe everyone here can agree that the GabberNick experiment is over. All of Chip’ excuses about Kap not having TC because he was recovering from surgeries is falling on deaf ears because it’s become obvious that Kap will never be a legitimate NFL QB.

    I believe it’s time to see what this team has in Chis Ponder. Of the 3 QB’s on the roster I think that CP has the best qualities as a pocket passer.
    Ponder (imo) can be our modern day version of Steve DeBerg who can be the perfect “bridge” until our true QB is drafted. We have all seen how much an accurate passing QB can do to lift a team.

    Watching young QB’s like Jamise Winston, Derek Carr, and Zak Prescott make their teams competitive definitely has me thinking that drafting one of the top 3 QB’s in next years draft is a must.
    One thing is certain, we can’t go into the 2017 season with the same roster, especially at the QB position (except for CP).

  50. So the bye is here and yet O’Neil and Baalke still have a job at 4949…. The Niners could have improved a smidgen by subtraction but all they continue to prove is they’re committed to losing on and off the field as long as those dollars keep stacking up. Other teams haven’t been afraid to fire their underperforming coordinators except your one and only Forty Niners… The nightmare continues. The York family is a bunch of buffoons.

    1. Between his personal life, film study, insider investigations and written entries, I’d say he’s got his plate full Mr. Sanders….

    2. Prime,
      There is no news to report on the team.
      Same players
      Same coaches
      Same FO personnel
      Same owner
      Sadly, that pretty much says it all.

  51. Prime,

    At least you have passion. I know you or Seb would be poaching practice squadders from the other rosters—doing something, anything.

    I know both of you would have issued a public, State of the 49ers address to fans by now, in a show of confidence for them.

    The York’s do none of this.

    Kawakami’s correct. They only use Levi’s stadium offices as a bank vault and is it any wonder they have state of the art WIFI…..The better to sneak a leak to their favorite national media shills placing the next scapegoats head on the guillotine.

  52. Levi Stadium’s basic 2 functions: 1. Assemble the NFL’s most sophistocated data resource center, via Silicon Valley Technology, to place blame on everyone but the York’s for fans money being ill invested.

    2. The second functions serves as a bank vault.

  53. City pays for Levi’s re-sods if caused by non-game events. 49ers pay if caused by games. Hmm, wonder what 49ers decided caused the re-sods.

    SportsHutch ‏@SportsHutch · 17h17 hours ago

    Girl scout sleepover?

    Rockwalker ‏@FanofKahne · 18h18 hours ago

    @timkawakami yep that is the way the Dorks roll. Just like the shadow money they into SC politics and trying to get the women removed CC

  54. Tim Kawakami Verified account 
    Tim Kawakami Retweeted John Middlekauff

    I’ve heard about some potentially questionable tactics and timing by the 49ers on this issue.

    Tim Kawakami added,

    John Middlekauff @JohnMiddlekauff
    Middlekauff Retweeted ProFootballTalk

    Jed fixing his field on the tax payers dollar is a joke

    Tim Kawakami Verified account 
    Tim Kawakami Retweeted Craig

    I would start with the mayor, who seems to be the first Santa Clara politician actually not afraid of the 49ers.

    Tim Kawakami Verified account 
    Tim Kawakami Retweeted Craig

    I would start with the mayor, who seems to be the first Santa Clara politician actually not afraid of the 49ers.

  55. I see a lot of conversations about Gus Bradley on the topic but what I cant figure out is why Chuck Pagano still has a job.

  56. Once, I thought the York’s suing their own PSL holders for breach was ludicrous.

    After reading about the York’s only resodding on the taxpayers dime, and Harbaugh having to pull his team off the dead turf during the Stadium’s grand opening, I’m skeptical.

    Jed scolded H after he pulled the team off in front of the who’s, who of Silicon Valley Billionaires club…..God, all the good coaches leverage the 49ers for better jobs.

  57. The Saints just beat the Seahawks, who demolished the 49ers. Chalk the Saints game as a loss for the 49ers.

    1. I don’t have any confidence that the Niners actually find a way to win the rest of the season unless the other team self destructs… Not to state the obvious but this “team” is terrible.

  58. Drew Magary
    8/18/15 1:00pm

    Your team: San Francisco 49ers, 1946-2015, RIP.
    Your 2014 record: 8-8. The Niners close out their formal existence as a professional football team with five Super Bowl titles, six NFC titles, and 19 division titles. That’s a really nice run you guys had.
    Tomsula will make for a fantastic undertaker. In time, he will grow a proper hunchback. He’s certainly not qualified to be the head coach of a professional football

    Not that Jed York gives a sh-t about any of this. I’m not exaggerating when I say I think the Niners implosion is one of the great crimes in sports history. York brought in Harbaugh, kept him around just as a new stadium was going through, and then let him go when keeping up that facade was no longer necessary. The Niners have let everything go to sh-t simply because they can. They give no f-cks. York will show up at games this year in a bathrobe and slippers and piss down your leg. What difference does it make? The Niners are the full and glorious realization of the NFL’s most bloodless ambitions. They force fans to pay the most money possible to go to the least convenient stadium possible, all in service of a team that is now so wealthy, it can afford to suck in perpetuity. They don’t even feel obligated to take care of the field anymore.

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