49ers to sign TE Levine Toilolo

CORRECTS TO REMOVE SCORE- Detroit Lions’ Levine Toilolo catches a touchdown pass on a fake field goal in front of Green Bay Packers’ Josh Jackson during the first half of an NFL football game Sunday, Dec. 30, 2018, in Green Bay, Wis. (AP Photo/Mike Roemer)

Say goodbye to Garrett Celek.

Pending a physical, the 49ers are set to sign his likely replacement — Levine Toilolo.

Toilolo (6’8″, 268 lbs.) will turn 28 on July 30. He went to Stanford and played for Kyle Shanahan from 2015 to 2016 on the Atlanta Falcons.

Toilolo is a blocking tight end who struggles to block on run plays, but is a good pass protector. In six seasons in the NFL, he has caught five touchdown passes in the red zone.

Toilolo probably will take Celek’s place as the No. 2 tight end behind George Kittle. And Toilolo should be an upgrade over Celek, who was one of the worst players in the NFL last season.

This article has 523 Comments

  1. Good. I am glad the Niners are obtaining tall players who can high point the ball. Maybe that will help fix their red zone woes.

      1. If he is in the end zone, falling down is perfectly fine with me.
        .
        Conversely, you want them to act all macho and get hurt. Smart. You are a genius.

        1. Seb says…
          Conversely, you want them to act all macho and get hurt. Smart. You are a genius.

          Ok seb it’s fact now you have never played a sport in your life.
          Macho???? They’re paid millions to play a “macho” game that delivers and takes hits.
          You’ve got to be kidding when talking about this game.

          1. What are you talking about. I played soccer in high school, college and club soccer for years. I have sprained ankles, torn my MCL and have suffered many contusions and bruises, so I have known a thing about injuries.
            .
            Guess you do not like the rule about letting a QB slide. That is such a wussy move.
            .
            Guess you do not like the new rule, not allowing a hit against a defenseless player.
            .
            Maybe you should read about Nick Buoniconti, before spouting off about being macho.

            1. Soccer? I see it now.
              You mean the sport where “athletes” fall down like their appendix is about to erupt and whine like wimps?

              Soooo you’ve never played football.
              And that’s why you comment garbage like that.

              As far as athletes who have been messed up by the game..
              They were payed nicely and…
              Here’s the kicker. They CHOSE to play the game.
              My problem is you trying to call out tough guys who play a f****** MACHO game.
              Tfooh with that

            2. Buoniconti now has major regrets about playing football.
              .
              When writhing in pain after a hard tackle in soccer, I did not have to fake anything.
              .
              When defending a corner kick, getting an elbow in the ribs did not feel like a love tap.
              .
              I am advocating tactics that will prevent injuries, but you think that is soft and not macho.
              .
              You wonder why they are making all these rules to protect the players, but I think they are just being smart. Being macho, and enduring a lifetime of pain and cognitive impairment, is not smart.

              1. It was HIS choice, Seb-he loved the game and was paid quite well for it….HIS choice-he is not a victim.

              2. Saw, just watch his interview, and documentary.
                .
                You also have to remember, his son became paralyzed while playing football, so that will not make him defend the game.

              3. These guys make the choice to play this game. Stop pretending they are victims.
                Just because you are soft like butter, don’t make these guys out to be incompetent. That’s for losers like you that pretend to know the game but really don’t.

              4. Seb if you’ve ever watched the CFL you would actually appreciate the game. Of course the caliber is not like the NFL but a moron like you would never know the difference!

              5. Hmmm, sounds like the sap is beginning to run up in Canada. CFL? is that an offshoot of the AAF?
                .
                Looks like 13 players from up north may actually be good enough to play in the NFL. They finally get to play REAL football.

      1. Hey Allie, long time no see.
        .
        Please post more. How is your lacrosse (?) team doing? I think that is your sport. Please correct me if I am wrong.
        .
        I agree. Toilolo will make strong competition in TC. Some of these cuts will be painful..

  2. Who do you guys see as the nickel CB next season? I thought K’wuan Williams regressed a bit and seems to have hit his ceiling.

  3. “One of the worst players in the NFL last year” According to who? You know Grant your crappy attitude is perfect for that worthless franchise that plays across the bay,I’m sure their cognitively impaired fan base would appreciate your baseless player evaluations.

        1. Pearl Jam does a great cover. Also Comfortably Numb. Mike Mcreedy is the best guitar player under 50.

  4. “Toilolo Time” just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

    Good solid move. Should be making more of these type of moves. Of course, we need to wait and see how much money they are giving him. Lynch might be making him a top 10 paid TE.

  5. Grant I refrained from posting this again till now as you never replied when I originally posted it. I really did not want to, but your arrogance questioning people like the great Peter King in an industry that you have achieved nothing in is inane. It is one thing to disagree with him, but you questioned his objectivity and were straight disrespectful.

    Our previous discussion regarding Harbaugh led me to contact a friend in the Michigan athletic office. He told me that he would ask Harbaugh about you if he got the chance. Apparently Harbaugh referred to you as the “Arrogant idiot who thinks he is a gm, but actually knows nothing about football.”

    Honestly as a fan I am okay if you are anti 49ers. I totally understand that you are trying to get clicks on your blog. I am sick of your blatant disrespect of the Matts, Peter King, and Shanahan. They have all achieved a lot more than you in their field. They have all gotten jobs based on merit rather than daddy.

    One last thing, you called Celek one of the worst players in the NFL. While this could be true, there is no definitive calling some one worst in the NFL. You could have said he was one of the 49ers worst players. I will say this, You are the worst by far of the 49ers bloggers. I can’t even call you a reporter because you are yet to report anything.

    1. Including PS and IR there are approximately 2450 players on NFL payrolls.
      There are what? 10,000 sports writers…+/-
      Does GC rank in the Top 50 (i.e: Pro Bowl)?
      Top 2450?
      Top 5000?
      Top 9999?
      Remember “worthless Witherspoon”?

      1. Haha. He speaks only in generalities. There is no basis other than the fact that he just throws out loose terms.

        It is always funny to me when writers just rip NFL players this personally. Garrett Celek has a job that 1 in 100 get. Grant is a fan of football like us that has a blog platform(thanks to daddy) to post his musings. It is a job that 90/100 can get. Unless you are a Peter King or someone like that where you are exclusive and respected.

        1. Hey Niners

          Generalities…?..No basis in fact…? Does Grant have to lead you by the nose…Look it up yourself…Celek is not only one of the worst players in the NFL last season…I think that is kind…He’s been one of the worst players in the NFL for at least the past three seasons…Good call Grant…

      2. And going further, Grant body-shamed Detroit’s Matt Particia last year. Yeah, sounds silly to bring that instance up, but the shaming technique isn’t new to Grant.

        1. I was actually completely unaware of this. That is very messed up. It is a shame what false arrogance can do to you. I hope Grant doesn’t have to hit rock bottom for him to realize the error in how he conducts himself as a “professional” reporter.

              1. Careful Grant–your blog reflects IP address from all over.

                Given that humans have a tendency to move about the landscape over their relatively short lifespans–especially the last 100 years or so–can you explain how an IP address in 2019 defines someones life path?

          1. I am going to need some real proof on this, but if it is true then in this case it makes Bill Walsh 100 percent wrong. Just because Walsh did it does not make it okay for you to do it. Are you a child? Your argument is absolutely awful. It is an absolute joke that you are a professional writer and yet your argument for calling someone else fat is that Bill Walsh did it.

            1. Now you’re saying Bill Walsh was wrong while criticizing me for disagreeing with Peter Freaking King. Rich.

              1. How did you get a journalism degree while having 0 English comprehending skills? Go read above, I told you that there is no issue with disagreeing with him. My main gripe is how you were disrespectful to a guy that is probably the most respected journalist in the industry. It is the equivalent of Jimmy Garoppolo disrespecting Joe Montana.

                Pick up a dang book man Seriously

              2. I don’t have a journalism degree. There is no journalism major at UCLA. I majored in English Literature. I’ve picked up quite a few books.

              3. And yet you still can’t piece together coherent arguments or read what has been stated.

                You need a refund.

          2. This is kind of a silly discussion, but since we’re on the topic, I’ll note that Bill Belichick ain’t exactly svelte. If Bill Walsh held body image against coaches, he might have missed the mark on that one.

              1. Careful, Grant. You’re getting worked up and proving Niners’ point for him. That response has literally nothing to do with my statement.

        2. What the ACTUAL f? You guys are complaining about body shaming? Is this a self help site for overweight teenage girls? Wow! Matt Patricia is a fat ba$tard. I’ll bet if you asked Matt Patricia to his face about his weight he would say, “Yeah, I’m a fat ba$tard.” Patricia looks like he swallowed 12 game balls just before a game so the NFL wouldn’t have evidence of deflated balls. Patricia looks like he’s about to give birth to a walrus. If Patricia bought 2 seats on an American Airlines flight, when he arrived at the airport the person at the ticket counter would say, “I’m sorry sir but you’re going to have to buy another seat.” If Matt Patricia went swimming off Maui, Hawaii would flood. Body-Shaming? You’ve got to be freaking kidding me. You sensitive little girls need to toughen up.

          1. Just probing Grant’s sense of propriety….

            Snowflake behaviors are found across the human spectrum.

      1. I am actually not lying, but it is not my job to convince you of that.

        What I did was something you should learn. I had a source and I asked him a question and he reported a fact to me. This is reporting 101.

        It is fine if you do not believe me. Your pretentious, arrogant, and pompous personality would give me no reason to believe otherwise. I just hope you realize this issue about yourself sooner rather than later because you do not seem to listen to any sort of criticism at all. All you do is pat yourself on the back when Seb or this new character you created, Monty compliment you. That is your choice and is totally fine.

          1. No issues buddy. I cannot wait for your next film breakdown. Hopefully you can show a few more plays from the Bill Walsh madden playbook for Shanahan to run. Better yet, I hope that Belichick is reading this so he knows exactly what plays the genius Grant Cohn would run. That is probably the only way he will be successful.

              1. Good one buddy.
                Clearly I am a fan of the 49ers as I am on this garbage 49ers blog so I probably am going to have unwavering support of Jed’s product. You really got me bud. Your deductive reasoning here shows why your analysis of the 49ers is heralded.

              2. You do not know how to argue do you? Every time you consistently change the topic. I stated clearly above to you that I do not mind your criticism of the 49ers. My issue is that your criticism is often offered as a generality with little to no evidence as well as a veiled personal shot at someone else.

              3. That’s your uninformed opinion. And I’m at least as smart as you, whoever you are.

              4. Holy cow. Thank you. You just proved my point. You literally just did what I said you do.

                Good for you for being as smart as me. I am near the top of my industry. I lost my cool and stated my credentials before, but I won’t make that mistake again. Whether we are both smart or dumb I do learn from my mistake and it has served me well in life.
                I hope you become successful. I really do. I don’t believe that you will be based on the stuff you are currently writing, but that’s just my opinion.
                Good luck to you

              5. Hahahahahahaha. Sure, buddy. Post your real name if you want anyone to believe you don’t have Cheeto breath right now.

              6. You are making me lose brain cells. Obviously I am not going to post my real name on some random public blog. I doubt any other person on this blog would be compelled to do the same.

              7. Grant Cohn’s English degree strikes again. “Relentlessly wrong.”
                LOL

                Where am I wrong? Break it down. Give me the ELITE Grant Cohn analysis

              8. First, Monty isn’t me. I would get fired if I posted under a pseudonym. I’m not afraid to post using my name and picture. You are.

              9. You got the job because of daddy. You should have been fired long ago. Do not give me this “I would be fired” garbage.

              10. HAHA!!!!
                “You just throw out BS.”

                That is literally you on this blog. Name one story that you have broken Mr. big time “reporter.”

              11. Ha! Grant and several others….(not everyone, but there were others)

                Had your distemper shot?

                Woof!!

              12. Check this Sebbie… Someone in agreement with Grant (when Grant posted the topic).

                Scooter_McG says:
                October 13, 2015 at 6:46 pm

                Hate to say it, as Bow has been such a great player for the 49ers, but I agree he is a shadow of his former self. He isn’t terrible by any stretch – he can still play – but he does look like he struggles moving laterally and making sharp cuts. We shouldn’t be shocked by this if the reports it takes him an hour to loosen the knee up in the morning are true. But it does mean he is going to struggle to be as effective in coverage as he once was. His coverage responsibilities should be limited to short zones, much like the Ravens used Ray Lewis towards the end of his career.

                I understand there is some hope he is just working the knee back to health at the moment, but I think that is an optimistic viewpoint. He’s getting onto two years removed from the injury. I don’t think his knee is going to improve much from here. What we see now is likely what the Bowman product will be moving forward.

              13. Yes, Scooter wrote that, but Grant was the first media guy to question whether Bowman would stay on the team, or be on the hot seat.
                .
                ALL of the other pundits were staunchly behind Bowman, cheering him on.

              14. Not only that, they reported he looked great during OTAs, mini camp and training camp. They also reported Aaron Lynch looked in shape when I said he was fat and out of shape, which he was.

              15. Grant…

                Is that inclined ramp still on 9er property, or was it removed or re-purposed?

            1. Buddy, that is your job. You have to do that.
              Do you want a cookie for doing your job?

              PS:Also I know that you created the alias monty.

              1. Dude, you’re relentlessly wrong and you hide behind the least creative alias on the blog. Can’t respect it.

              2. Grant Cohn’s English degree strikes again. “Relentlessly wrong.”
                LOL

                Where am I wrong? Break it down. Give me the ELITE Grant Cohn analysis

                You are yet to share a fact that makes me wrong.

            2. Niners–

              After all, it IS Grants job to show the other side of the coin….yeah, he sounds like a Raider guy………..but he does point out that the Yorks have put out a horrible product since they took over. If it got better, they chased away the coach. The York’s actually hurt the NFL by being in it. Grant has pointed that out…………

              Your taking this stuff too personally.

          1. Unsure. Rocket tended to be a bit more articulate and lengthy in his presentation. Just guessing…

            1. Rib,
              Rocket was one of my favorite posters. But after getting banned he came back with a vengeance with Grant being his biggest target.
              But you’re right, this narrative doesn’t fit Rocket’s MO.

              1. What did you do to, Rocket? Use his personal information to determine he was lying about being a coach?

              2. I agree with SourYeast. Miss Rocket. These name-calling back-and-forths give me a break from reading all the comments and let’s me just scroll by a lot of the comment strings…

              3. You’re right Grant. I do remember him getting into some heated debates and leaving for a while.

                Glad to hear he wasn’t banned, would like to see him come back. Can’t say I agreed with everything he said, but I always thought he represented himself well.

              4. I have to say this niner guy got a rise out of you Grant. I’ve never seen you reply so many times to this kind of shizz talking.

                Usually your responses are a couple at the most if it’s not about football.

                Grant. Have you been working out? 🤣

            1. I wouldn’t mind seeing Jordan23 back on here.
              You talk about lighting some fireworks.
              Ask Onelame about that. Credit Jordan23 for causing a meltdown from onelame having him banned 1 of the 3 times. 🤣🤣🤣

              1. Crab, I think 49erGirl left for good after some doofus posted pretty creepy fan fiction involving her.

                and wasn’t Hofer really Alex Smith in disguise? Lol.

            1. I sure as h-ll would, Sebby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Burner accounts piss you off! (I’m just funnin ya, Sebs……..)

              1. Saw, I know you have a plethora of burner accounts.
                .
                I know rocket is not on this site. He would have attacked me by now.

    2. Can’t say anything about MM and King, but Shanahan most definitely got many of his jobs because of whose son he was.

      1. He got his first job at a young age as a quality controls coach for Gruden probably because of Mike. I would push back that he got many of his jobs because of that though. He has been quite successful as an OC in nearly all his locations. You could definitely make a strong case about Washington though.

      2. SY,
        You’re letting your personal vandetta with Shanahan get the best of you, bud.

        Shanahan has been around football for the better part of his life and proved his worth in creating one of the best offenses during his time in Atlanta.

        He gets guff for the lost in the SB (btw, I’ll never know why the Falcons defense gets a free pass on the loss). But just for argument sake, can you tell me why the Falcons haven’t sniffed a SB since Shanahan has been gone? This is a question for many here who have laid the SB loss on his lap.

        So, no, Kyle didn’t get this job because of his dad. Shanahan is headed in the right direction, it won’t be long before the wins start coming.
        Get your popcorn ready my friend!

        1. I agree. The falcons offense has also been no where near the same despite their considerable amount of talent.

          I do not know whether Shanahan is a great head coach or not, but I think that at this point it is a fact that he is a genius OC/play-caller.

            1. Dude you are so funny. If you believe Shanahan is not a genius that is cool. I believe he is. Somehow you think that you get back at me by putting Shanahan down. It really doesn’t affect me at all.

              1. Go look up my blog big fellow. I write on the warriors. It is a hobby of mine. Search up Vignesh Venketraman.
                It might teach you a few things about writing.

              2. You clearly went to Stanford.

                And that matters? This wouldn’t be an example of that celebrated Bruin intellectual inferiority complex of all things Standford, would it?

              3. So is Niners the George O’Leary of this blog or are we all George O’Leary? I’m so confused.

              4. No, it makes him a fraud.

                That’s quite the public accusation. And we know it’s unethical for you to reveal your “proof”, so it’s quite convenient, isn’t it?

              5. Ribico, I promise you I am a Stanford graduate. I do not think that it is relevant to this topic of discussion though. Whether Grant believes me or not is out of my control, but I have memories of four years at Stanford to cherish. You can look up my name which I provided above. I actually wrote a little bit for the Stanford Daily news.

                I think this just emphasizes my earlier point about Grant. He runs from these arguments because he actually cannot make any good points. He instead just changes the topic and takes some stupid shot at Shanahan.

              6. Now you say you’re Vignesh “Venketraman” (you misspelled your own name. It’s Venkataraman). Here’s a beautiful comment you wrote on April 24:

                “FYI if you want to read an article of a young writer with real talent read Vignesh venketraman. He writes about the warriors for the mercury news blog team. I know him from my Stanford days. He works full time at a software startup and still manages to provide more statistical analysis than you. He writes with real voice and shows a clear command of the English language. He doesn’t consistently have spelling and grammatical errors in his articles. Humble yourself and learn something from him. He didn’t have daddy to get him that job he earned it.”

              7. First of all I know how to spell my name big man. My new phone has the worst spell check and it screwed it up. Second of all, you caught me, I was promoting my own writing. Definitely not the most ethical decision on my part.

              8. Viggy,

                You’re coming off as a fanboy blogger who can’t handle the fact that someone is getting paid to write while you don’t.

            2. This lacks context. Shanahan can only work with the tools he has. He also has a notoriously difficult system that typically takes at least a year to master. So let’s look at those teams he was coordinating for.

              He was OC in Washington for three years. During that time, he had Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman, and RGIII at QB. In 2010, McNabb was on the back end of his career and was mostly broken down. Ryan Torrain was toting the rock. His top receiver was Santana Moss, who had his third-best season at age 31. His #2 receiver was Anthony Armstrong, who only had one good career season. Chris Cooley had a late-career resurgence that year, and tied his highest career yardage number.

              In 2011, Grossman and John Beck split the QB snaps. Roy Helu was the RB, and had by far the best year of his career. Jabar Gaffney was the leading receiver and had by far his best season at 31, and Moss reverted to about 600 yards receiving. Fred Davis was the second leading receiving option and had a career year.

              In 2012, rookie RGIII started. Alfred Morris put up 1,600+ yards at RB. Pierre Garcon was the leading receiver, Leonard Hankerson was the #2, and Fred Davis reverted to the mean at TE. Despite that, the team ranked fourth in points scored.

              In 2013, second-year RGIII started and came crashing back to earth. Morris had another solid season, though he regressed. Garcon enjoyed his career year. Aldrick Robinson and rookie Jordan Reed complemented him.

              In 2014, Shanahan went to the Browns. He had Brian Hoyer and rookie Johnny Manziel at QB. Terrance West and Isaiah Crowell split carries. Andrew Hawkins was the leading receiver, supported by Taylor Gabriel and 30-year-old Miles Austin.

              In 2015, he went to the Falcons, who had a loaded roster. Blue chip talent basically everywhere on offense. The first year, Ryan struggled picking up the offense. The second year, they had the best offense in the league. It does bear mentioning that the OL improved tremendously between 2015 and 2016.

              And as we all know, his offenses have been mediocre with the Niners. We can hold him more responsible for the Niners’ personnel struggles, but he’s had primary starters of Hoyer and Mullens at QB. Because Garcon hasn’t stayed healthy, Goodwin was the #1 receiver with a career year in 2017. Receiver was black hole this past year.

              Shanahan has some issues as a play caller, particularly in the red zone. But claiming he’s not particularly good, or he’s only getting jobs through nepotism, ignores the obvious fact that he is a talented offensive playcaller. And making that argument based on points scored is lazy.

              1. I fail to see the word “genius” in Crimsom’s post. “talented offensive playcaller”, yes. But “genius”? Can you direct me to it?

              2. Grant has a personal vendetta with Kyle. It is laughable and unprofessional. I personally really like Kyle so I cannot say I am as objective as I should be in matters that pertain to him.

                Crimson offered a fair and objective evaluation that shows that there is more nuance to this situation. Grant clearly could not comprehend that

              3. I agree 4th in the league in run plays of 10 or more yards and 3rd in the league in pass plays of 15 or more yards only puts him in the talented offensive play caller, not genius, category. I also agree pointing out those stats performed with 2nd and 3rd stringers would be in the excuse category, so I’m not going to point that out.

              4. So the conclusion I am drawing is that you do not believe that Shanahan is a talented play caller despite the heaps of verbal evidence from other players/coaches. There is also a considerable amount of statistical evidence. Sure he is not perfect and he has flaws, but essentially the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate him considering that evidence shows that at the very least he is a “talented play caller. “

              5. Only as good as your last year, Grant.

                Say the unfathomable happens this year, Niners make the playoffs, or even a playoff run. How would you cover that? Seeing how you are so invested in the terrible-ness of this team, from owner down to water boy and girl?

            3. I CANT sit quiet any longer…….!
              Shany is a great offensive coach! if you look at those 11 seasons…..hes had 1 good qb!!!!!!! matt freakin Ryan! The guy is still pretty geen/young…….so I can see the guy improving to the point of being a really good HC. In those 11 seasons hes managed to make some bad qbs look good ( schaub, rg3,KK, CJB and Mullens……hes looked real good with MR or a healthy JG.

              And I totally agree w niner!!!!!! ive accepted it and rarely post or visit the blog anymore, in fact, I never visit during the season!!!

              ive come to view it as laziness …..you just attack ppl on a personal level constantly!! usually baseless unprovable comments exactly like the “worse player in the entire nfl” comment! “hes garbage”. ” not nfl talent” wont be on a roster when cut to 53″ etc.

              you attack character….anytime a guy messes up off the field…

              you kill shany and Lynch constantly…..even though THE FACTS PROVE they are both upgrades over the last GM and 2 coaches……

              you still hammer York, even though hes come a long way since choosing Baalke over Harbaugh..

              1. and you ban ppl for petty reasons, usually pointing out when they are right and you are wrong….. of course you don’t say that’s the reason! you make something up like ” being disrespectful”…even though I always see far worse constantly going unpunished….

                Just because the ban isn’t permanent…..dosent mean that its not a BAN!!!!

                in fairness….I do like the recent video breakdown! after 7 years of baseless opinions…..your finally showing us SOMETHING of substance to back it up!

              2. No, Grant usually does not ban, but the mods do for the usual profanity and sexual stuff.
                .
                ‘You attack character… Anytime a guy messes up off the field’.- Maybe he should not mess up off the field. That shows a lack of character.
                .
                ‘You kill Shanny and Lynch constantly, even though THE FACTS PROVE they are both upgrades over the last GM and 2 coaches…’ Another fact is that they are a 4-12 team. They need to learn from their mistakes, or they will keep making the same mistakes.
                .
                ‘You still hammer York…’ Because he deserves it. The leaks have started again.
                .
                Sometimes Grant is blunt, and brutally honest. Guess you cannot handle the truth.

            4. Probably a little late to get back to this, but I wanted to examine this in a different way, specifically looking at how players under Shanahan have done when he wasn’t coaching them relative to when he was. Having reviewed the list of players he coached at length, it’s even worse than I expected, and actually makes me respect his coaching ability a bit more.

              The following primary skill position players that Shanahan has coached have made at least one pro bowl: McNabb, Moss, RGIII, Morris, Reed, Ryan, Freeman, Jones, Hooper, and Kittle. For eleven years in the league, that’s not a lot of pro bow players. I thought Garcon had made one, and he was probably the first guy to miss out in his best year (Vincent Jackson made it with fewer yards but two more TDs).

              Taking a closer look at those guys, McNabb went to a pro bowl the year before joining the Redskins, kind of inexplicably, and after a four-year drought. In 2009, he was 16th in passer rating, and tied for 13th in TDs. He was top-5 in INTs (in the good sense). He took the seventh-most sacks, though that statistic can cut two ways. He was a pro bowl alternate who got the nod when two guys pulled out. Upon joining Shanahan, he was 34 and learning a new offense for the first time since his rookie season. He struggled, left the following year, started six more games and then retired.

              Moss made a single pro bowl five years before Shanahan got him, played pretty well under Shanahan, and poorly after Shanahan left (granted he was 35 by that time). RGIII made the pro bowl following a fairly sensational rookie season under Shanahan. He was the fourth-rated passer that season, and also ran for 800 yards and seven TDs. He never came close to matching those numbers afterward, though perhaps some of that is on Shanahan. Morris actually didn’t make the playoffs the year he ran for 1600 yards under Shanahan, but made it the following two years, which included a 2014 season in which Shanahan was gone. Go figure this: Morris didn’t make the pro bowl in 2012 when he posted 1613 yards and 13 TDs, but made it in 2014 posting 1074 and 8. After that 2014 season, he fell off rapidly.

              Matt Ryan made three pro bowls before Shanahan came on board, but had his only all-pro year when Shanahan joined the team. He hasn’t made a pro bowl since, though he probably should have this past year as he had a season that was pretty reminiscent of 2016 (fourth in rating, third in yards, tied for third in TDs, low INTs) but for the team’s record. It’s perhaps worth noting that Ryan suffered a regression the year Shanahan left that was very similar to his regression in Shanahan’s first year. Freeman made the pro bowl in both of Shanahan’s seasons with the team, and has since struggled, though that is largely due to injuries. Julio Jones has been special regardless of the coach. Hooper was a rookie in Shanahan’s final year. The fact that he made the pro bowl this year with 660 yards and 4 TDs is a testament to how bleak the TE landscape is in today’s NFL.

              Anyway, having taken a pretty deep dive into the players Shanahan has coached, the common thread is that many of them had their best seasons with him as the coach. Julio Jones is the exception to the rule, but he’s an exception to a lot of rules. Virtually no one Shanahan coached has gone on to be more successful under another coordinator.

              Again, I’m not calling him a genius by any means. His red zone struggles alone are enough to cast significant doubt on that label. But the guy has been very good at getting production out of the players that he has had. This year – pending Garoppolo’s health – will be a real test of just how good he is.

          1. Wow, calling KS a genius? After that implosion in the SB, he is the furthest thing from a genius. All he had to do was run the ball…..

            1. I guess Andy Reid is not a genius either due to his many playoff meltdowns. Geniuses can make mistakes too. Belichick certainly made many mistakes against the eagles when he could not stop Nick Foles once.

              1. I believe that Reid is a genius so thank you. My point which was clearly stated above is that geniuses can make mistakes.

              2. I think Reid is not a genius at all. Yes, he is very smart, and learned from the best, but he is a constant under achiever.
                .
                A genius will achieve greatness, not fail to achieve greatness.
                .
                Bill Walsh is a genius. he changed the game.

              3. Correct. Reid is the most creative offensive coach currently in the NFL, but he’s not a winner.

              4. “You had a point”

                Grant Cohn who struggles with basic reading comprehension is making jokes.

                HAHA! You should be thanking me right now Grant. I am giving your blog hits.

              5. I get millions of hits every year. Your 35 comments the past couple weeks don’t make a difference.

              6. I would argue that Reid has always overachieved with a less talented roster. Before Mahomes, he never had a top 3 quarterback like all the other “genius” coaches. He is not Belichick, but Belichick is the greatest ever. Reid is still a genius in my opinion considering he is top 2-3 in one of the toughest professions in the world.

              7. Niner–

                Bellichick never had to go up against Gibbs, Shula, Landry, Parcells or anything remotely resembling some of those mid 80’s Bear teams

                When Walsh had his best teams, he vanquished them all.

            2. Sebbie…

              Remind us again who the Falcons HC was…oh, and the defensive coordinator too?

              It was a shared loss bubs….

              1. No, they were in field goal range, and I would have even preferred 3 kneel downs.
                .
                But no, ‘Genius’ KS dials up pass plays, and Ryan got sacked, putting them out of field goal range.
                .
                What an epic fail.

        2. Are we leaving out Sean McVay–the young genius behind the Rams resurgence? Sean–while getting mugged in the SB–seems to have earned his way. Also is the grandson of John McVay…..

          So a question for anyone… Did Sean get his job simply because of his lineage?

          1. Certainly didn’t hurt his chances. Just like Other kids of legends.

            The kids have to earn their way, but it gets a foot in the door. The accusation is that Grant got his job based on his father.

            I’m sure his father helped open some doors, but that is equally true for Shanahan and McVay and many others. What they do from there is testament to their hard work and talent. Same with Grant.

        3. I have no animus for Kyle. Just don’t think he is the second coming of Bill Walsh either. Big difference.

              1. None, but his offenses scored points. From 1970-1976 his offenses ranked in the top 1/2 of the NFL 7 times.

                Shanahan has been in the NFL as OC/HC for 11 years and done it only 3.

                If you want to get into playoffs/etc, Walsh’s Bengals teams made it 3 times in 6 years. Shanahan has done it 2 in 11.

              2. Jack,
                Fair point, but I took Sour’ 12:07 comment as a reference to head coaching, not OC.
                It’s all good.

    3. Interesting, I consider Grant one of the best 49er bloggers. The others are sycophants and toadies, who do get the juicy tips because they are company men, but just regurgitate droll pablum, otherwise.
      .
      Yes, Peter King is a league insider, but he is dated and stale. Yes, they let him sit in on the draft, but JL had to apologize for the leak, afterward. Imagine what would happen if they let Grant in. I could see pyrotechnics. He would have skewered the Niners for refusing to trade back, eviscerated them for reaching for players ranked 313, at 67, and erupted over taking a punter in the 4th round.
      .
      Big deal. JH does not like the media. He considers them the enemy, and his pressers reminded me of some one enduring torture to wring a meaningful word out of him. He probably says that about many media members. Concerning others, he would probably say- He is such a kiss arse, so I threw him a bone, but I kept all the juicy gossip, because I just hate them all.
      .
      The Matts? they lost their jobs at their newspapers, so they crawled to the Atlantic, and they are even more servile to get a scoop. Yes, Maiocco did interrogate and grill Miller, but he was ordered to do that.
      .
      KS admitted to me and everyone else that he should have won 3 more games last season. He just admitted his incompetence, so maybe you should rip KS, too. He is so arrogant and full of hubris, he declares he does not need an OC. Too bad he needs all the help he can get, and 4-12 teams should not be arrogant at all. We all saw what not having an OC did to Sean McVay in the SB. Belichick schooled him. Belichick has an OC, and he just won a SB, but no, KS and SM think they know better.
      .
      The irony is delicious. You rip Grant for calling Celek one of the worst players in the league, then rip Grant, calling him the worst 49er Blogger. Maybe you should think before you write.
      .
      Grant did not report anything? He was just interviewed by the FF Wolf of Roto Street, and gave a very insightful and informative breakdown of the offseason happenings, along with spot on assessments. I still remember that interview Grant had with Edward J Debartolo Jr, the HOF former owner of the 49ers. Of all the media folk, Eddie chose Grant, so I will take the opinion of Eddie, over the peanut gallery every day, and twice on Sunday.
      .
      Of course, I will be accused of being a lap dog, but this dog can bite. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but just know, there are others who appreciate good writing, and Grant is a must read, to me.

      1. Sebbie… You’re a scream.

        Remember Grant’s declaration that Reuben Foster would be incarcerated (many, many months ago), and the announcement would be made on a slow news Friday? How did that go down?

        Recall Grant’s body-shaming of Detroit’s HC? Being the enlightened one,you claim to be, that should have (should have) offended you. Did it?

        So you’re Gran’ts self-appointed Poodle? Suggestion….get some house training. The blog would be better for it.

        Woof!

        1. Cassie, we all are wrong at times. Grant is not perfect. I am not perfect, You are too afraid of even putting up a mock, because then I could use it to skewer you.
          .
          Maybe I should remind you of all the times Baalke was wrong. He liked to pull names out of his back pocket to show how clever he was, but it ended up like he pulled them out of his rear end. He even whiffed on an entire draft.
          .
          Baalke’s mismanagement of the roster was a shining example in how NOT to run a team. Baalke liked to leak and smear, and he not only stabbed in the back, he liked to give it a twist. He was most happy when he could cut a player on the team bus.

          1. If my blog name was “Booke Freakin’ Tomsula“, would you lecture me about all things Tomsula?

      2. ………….”this dog can bite”!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Besides leaving yourself wide open for “bite me” jokes…….

        Sebbs, really……….can’t you belly-ache about something different? Your above rant and complaints is as old as dust from an Egyptian tomb–and it smells the same.

        1. Ah, I see more question marks now mixed in with the exclamation marks.
          .
          I have been posting about a variety of topics, but you sound like a broken record.
          .
          I really do not know what dust from an Egyptian tomb smells like, and do not plan to, because I heard it is cursed…… Hmmm, maybe that is your problem, since it sounds like you know what those smell like.

            1. Saw, reading is fundamental. I went down his screed and addressed most of his statements.
              .
              Your beef is with niners, not me.

              1. eehh….those are the same old rants you’ve been doing for years.

                beef with the 9ers?……………but your more fun! Worth millions……………..

                And I WILL be buying you a tall one at the Gravenstein Grill! (Where your old haunt was,–“Marty’s top ‘o the hill”.)………..not far from your house.

        1. The whole thing is entertaining, but the Harbaugh thing at the beginning is funny. This guy dislikes you so much that he can’t help but take the time to comment and then respond repeatedly.

          1. He has been dying for my attention for weeks. And he’s pretending to have posted on this blog for years. We have a stalker.

      1. Should be some gems in here–suitable for inclusion in Grant’s ‘best-of-blog’ anthology.

          1. You would think a Stanford graduate who works for Google and is at the top of his industry would make better points.

            1. Grant, go read some of the points you have made countering me. Your writing and argument skills are utter nonsense. I believe that Peter King is a good writer and insider. Clearly many NFL teams do because he seems to offer insight that you do not. I do not think that I am an idiot for believing that Peter King is smart just like I don’t think Sebbie is an idiot for liking your writing.

              To reiterate, my biggest gripe was that you took a personal shot questioning his objectivity which was flat disrespectful. To offer a parallel, it would be like Jason Garrett taking a personal shot at Jimmy Johnson. Before you get your tutu in a twist, and put down Jason Garrett or Jimmy Johnson in a rage to reply, reread what I just said.

              You wrote above I am a liar. The irony is that you are lying by. calling me a liar. Again, totally fine if you think that, but the truth hurts.

              1. I have not embarrassed myself one bit. You have failed to answer to any your flaws that I pointed out.
                Congratulations on being exposed as a fraud who got a job because of DADDY.

              2. No one agrees with you. You said you write for the Mercury News but you won’t say your name. What a liar.

              3. Peter King is an aging SJW gasbag who likes to write haikus, talk about microbrews, coffee and his dyke daughter in SF. He might have history, but he’s no longer that relevant. In 24 hour news cycles, with Twitter, youtube and FB, King’s lucky he still has a gig.

                I used to enjoy MMQB but now, as FMMIA it’s generally a dreary, extremely long read, with an emphasis of maudlin poetics.

              4. I mentioned my name above once dummy. I do think that a lot of people agree with me. The nice thing about us 49ers fans is we almost all universally agree on one thing. “grant Cohn is an idiot”

                You on the other hand are still yet to explain why you take personal shots at Peter King or the Matts as well as many others.

              5. Now tell me buddy why you take personal shots at Peter King, the matts, and other for no reason? Do you feel that it somehow validates you?

              6. King is unethical. He parrots the party line of every team. That’s not journalism. That’s P.R.

              7. Dude that is not my question. The niners can be a bottom five organization and yet your writing can still be click bait. The two are not mutually exclusive.

              8. Writing about the reality of the 49ers isn’t click bait. Writing non-stop positivity about a team that hasn’t earned it is click bait for fans like you.

              9. How are you writing the reality if you are wrong most of the time? You don’t have insight or facts that lead you to your claims. Instead you just throw out these random generalities hoping they come true. You truly are a work of art

              10. You are not wrong all the time. But your narrative never matches the reality of the situation.
                Teams are bad for a reason. You’ve labelled the 49ers a bottom five organization and put that on Shanny and Lynch.
                What you’ve failed to do is expect an instant turn around in 2 years, without acknowledging the history prior to and losing their QB for basically an entire year. Add the fact there was a ton of other injuries as well last year.
                That’s lazy journalism.

              11. Jed York is the reason the 49ers are a bottom-five organization. Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch are mere symptoms of York.

              12. Prime is right about that Grant–what ShannyLynch had to dig out of as well as what they had to deal with last year may be unprecedented i.e. losing their starting QB AND running back for the same year, as well as all of the other injuries-on top of their lack of depth to begin with………………what other team in the NFL has had all of that going against them? The Yorks put them in that mess-not KS and Lynch.

                I’ll bet the Sebs they’re headed in the right direction. We’ll know more in December.

              13. Grant, you are wrong enough where you would think you would have some sort of mechanism to self evaluate yourself and not write in such an arrogant manner. You are not a football player or a gm and yet you throw out these generalities that the niners did this right and that wrong. You give us no basis of fact to back this up either.

                A recent of example the generality you threw at us regarding good teams not spending on their front 7. Your argument fell flat a week later when the chiefs traded for and paid Frank Clarke an exorbitant amount of money.

                Let us say that you were right. If you were really smart and a good writer you would get some insight from a source about scheme and why the patriots spend less money on their front 7 and how it benefits them. Instead you just through out this random fact as if you know everything.

                The other thing is that football evolves so much that it is impossible to make such an arrogant claim like this. The types of teams(besides the patriots) that win changes every year, and if you look closely at the patriots you will notice subtle changes in their identity from year to year. For an example, they became more of a power running team this year.

              14. I wrote that most good teams with expensive quarterbacks don’t spend big money on edge rushers these days. The Chiefs and Bears have QBs on rookie deals, so they could afford to pay big money to Clark and Mack, respectively. This is a clear and obvious trend around the league. The 49ers are stuck in the past in this regard.

              15. “I wrote that most good teams with expensive quarterbacks don’t spend big money on edge rushers these days.”

                But how many had the type of cap room that the 49ers had even with the Garoppolo contract?

              16. They’ve had so much cap space that it’s given them the ability to do some of these wacky contracts like that or the one for Juice.

              17. It seems to me they’re having to cut corners financially at wide receiver and defensive back.

              18. Adam Humphries, Tyrell Williams or Devin Funchess would have been better than Jordan Matthews.

            2. Your articles for the last 2 seasons have been about Shannys incompetence and Lynch’s inability to draft and build a roster. Now you’ve shifted your narrative to York? Lazy!

              1. York hired them and created this organizational structure.

                Try sleeping on your side at night. Sleeping on your stomach cuts off oxygen to your brain.

              2. Write about the previous draft history and lack of quality coaches the past 5 years. And that they’ve never had a true QB after that Kap debacle. That’s on York but make sure you actually do some work and write a truthful account of why the 49ers are a bad organization.
                Instead your blah blah finger pointing just shows how lazy a writer you are. Your not Skip Bayless yet son!

              3. Grant…

                Intrigued with your organizational structure comment. I’ve been active for many years in working with clients to understand existing organizational structures and dynamics, and working toward improving/replacing them. Much time spent in business process re-engineering and strategic planning.

                So, what do you see as issues within the 9ers organization? Unclear/blurred lines of authority? Lack of vision? Lack of cohesion? Please, no snark. An objective thought or two is very welcome.

              4. Good question. I’m writing a column now, but I’ll answer this soon. I promise.

              5. Now, Sebs……………..dont project other’s faults onto me- I’ve got plenty of my own to wrestle with. That is unfair and it’s called “bearing false witness”. It is the language of career politicians–don’t go there.

                I’ll bet you right here right now in front of everyone they go at least 8-8. If I’m wrong, give me a POBox and I’ll send you a $50 gift certificate to the Gravenstein Grill. ‘Course, if they do go at least 8-8, you must do the same for me. Thats fair…………..
                There it is!!!!! The gauntlet has been thrown down! You going to pick it up?

              6. Saw, how can I bet with you? I have made a prediction that the Niners would not have a losing season, and that meant 8 games.

          2. Sebbie… Were you a softball pitcher? You keep lobbin’ ’em…

            sebnynah says:
            May 15, 2019 at 11:06 am
            Predictable pablum.

            Sebbie = predictable pablum

        1. Peter King is to NFL teams what Maggie Haberman is to John Podesta. He will write whatever the teams tee up for him.

    1. I agree. I think it is too early to say whether him or Travarioous Moore are busts. Witherspoon has played the last two years with an injury riddled secondary and no pass rush. We really have no clue what he is. It is funny to me when fans complain about the 49ers not drafting a secondary player in this draft. The niners have drafted two 3rd round corner backs whom we know very little about. It would be useless to crowd the secondary with another 3rd round player who likely won’t play. I think that the secondary can be more than serviceable with this current pass rush. Jimmie Ward will have a great season if he is healthy. Watching his college tape, I saw Jimmie Ward as a safety for this defense. Hopefully he is healthy and successful.

      1. Seems their plan was to develop their cb’s a couple years while they invested in the front seven. I’m assuming this is the year it pays dividends….

      1. I actually do not believe in Verrett at all. I am praying that he is successful for the sake of the 49ers, but after watching Bowman go through a similar string of leg injuries it is difficult to be confident that he will be the stud he once was again.

        1. Fair enough, my statement was based on Verrett playing good ball which in turn would make Witherspoon a good corner if he beat him out. Lots of IF’s going into the season.

          1. I think Verrett pushes Witherspoon to win the job with the deciding factor being dependability, and Verrett not being 100% back to normalcy….

    2. I do not want Witherspoon to play until he can learn to turn his head back to track the ball. Then it might not hit him in the helmet.
      .
      Hopefully, Joe Woods can coach him up.

    3. Ok, Let’s play the “If” game…

      If Witherspoon beats out Verrette…
      If Verrette stays healthy…

      Do you move Verrette inside to play the Nickel spot?

      For the record, I don’t see Witherspoon beating out anyone for any spot on the team. He doesn’t have a football players mentality and he’s got “Wasn’tMyGuy” disease. That’s the affliction where players waive their arms and use other body language to demonstrate to fans in the stands and on the TV in non-verbal communication that the big play the 49ers just gave up wasn’t his fault.

      1. Fair assessment.
        Is it not also fair for me to say that the jury is still out on Witherspoon and that he hasn’t had great support from his circumstance?

        I think we all agree that Witherspoon is not Patrick Peterson where you insert him into a defense and that defense is already considerably better. The question is whether you believe that Witherspoon can be a solid number 2 corner in a defense with a good front 7 and decent secondary players around him. I do not think that it is beyond the realm of possibility considering that Byron Maxwell and Jeremey Lane had success in a somewhat similar situation.

        1. I guess anything is possible. I just don’t see it. I would say there is a far greater chance Witherspoon is out of the NFL in 2020 than on an NFL roster. Witherspoon is obviously a gifted athlete that has God given abilities that could translate into a decent NFL player. My problem with Witherspoon as an NFL player is between his ears. It’s not a knock against the man to say he doesn’t have the physical mentality every NFL player needs to succeed. The NFL is a terribly violent game and it takes a great deal of courage to be in the NFL. Even at CB where you’re using physicality to cover and tackle an NFL WR requires a certain mental makeup that is totally absent from Witherspoon. He may be an extraordinarily nice guy who you wouldn’t mind your daughter dating but as an NFL CB he just doesn’t have what it takes to be successful.

          1. Sure. It is 100 percent a fair criticism of Witherspoon the player, nothing personal.
            I guess I am just hoping otherwise, but I am not going to be mad if you are right about Witherspoon. I just hope somebody steps up on the other side of Sherman.

  6. This would leave two players from previous regimes, if I remember correctly.

    It’s been clear since the beginning that Shanahan wanted his own guys, no matter what. It’s hard to get rid of pro bowl quality players like Staley and Buckner, but everyone else…

    What is curious is that both are still lynchpins. Aside from Kittle there are scant people that one can point at and state unequivocally that one can build the team around them.

    1. While they haven’t achieved pro bowl status yet, I wouldn’t want to part with McGlinchey or Warner. Pettis will continue to evolve, find a niche in Shanahan’s scheme, and be effective. A healthy, more savvy Garoppolo will be an asset (some ‘ifs’ for sure).

      While I have zero credibility, I believe a core group will emerge from this year’s crop of acquisitions (trade, draft, free agents) to play a key role in solidifying play and increasing the number of victories–this season and beyond.

  7. Verrett is coming off an Achilles injury. Maybe the best move would be to put him on IR with a mid season designation to return.
    .
    I advocated the same thing with Sherman, but they let him play so he could earn his salary. Too bad Sherman now admits he was playing on one leg.

  8. Unfortunate that Brother Tuna isn’t around to enjoy today’s blog kerfuffle…. Or Htwaits for that matter.

      1. Haha!!

        “In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability.”

            1. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              What lesson would that be, Sebby? That they need to pay the cover charge when they come to see you perform? I’m for that! I think your worth millions-should have been on Seinfeld………….

              1. Ahem, you are easily amused. I would not want to do stand up, those crowds can be tough.
                .
                You might do well. You could stand up and start laughing your head off. I hear laughter is contagious.

  9. Hey Grant…

    Since you’ve looked up all our IP addresses, could you post a list of the top 20 IP address locations? Top 25 by number of posts (if you can determine that) over the last six months. Don’t identify the addressees by blog user name, just the location. Addresses having the same ‘broad’ location can be identified by subscript. Example:

    1 — San Mateo, CA 1673 posts
    2 — Santa Rosa(1), CA 1559 posts
    3 — Santa Rosa(2), CA 1511 posts
    4 — Elkhart, IN 1488 posts
    5 — Folsom, CA 1304 posts
    6 — Pyongyang, N.Korea 1220 posts

    Do it!

  10. Dump on Grant.

    Dump on Seb.

    Sound pithy and witty.

    Parrot party lines.

    Rinse, repeat, rinse repeat.

      1. You kinda like this Grant–mostly. What does one expect of a sports blog, one devoted to an NFL team? I won’t use the tired Forrest Gump quote.

    1. welcome to the party, Cap’n. Chill. There’s some dykes dancing in the living room, a couple of SJWs over in the kitchen, sebbie holding court over at the garden…

  11. Interesting that Kyle picked up Toilolo. When the latter left the Cardinal early for the pros 9along with Zach Ertz in the 2013 draft), I thought that he’d either be out of the league in 3-4 years or change position to a tackle because he was decent blocker but was slow and showed hands of stone. I was impressed how Kyle wring out production from him with the Falcons. He will probably end up being a camp body with Kaden Smith backing up Kittle.

  12. Calling Celek one of the worst players last season is a little bit too much considering that he was injured early on in the season. He was also the backup TE, so expecting a high level of production from is ridiculous. With that said, I do agree that Toilolo is an upgrade over Celek and should be the TE2 for the team in 2019.

        1. Vance was/is better than Celek.

          This place is like a car wreck or Jerry Springer. I want to look away but I can’t help myself.

          1. “Vance was/is better than Celek.”

            No kidding, and yet many on here will try and convince you that it’s not true.

          2. 1. Their stats were neck-and-neck before last season.
            2. Crowing about a TE1 being better than a TE2 is comical to say the least.

            1. McDonald was ahead of Celek and would have been a far better option for a team that had the cap space

            2. Considering Vance has 500 more receiving yds in one less season of play he’s better, like In a Starbucks is better than Seattle’s best kinda way.

              1. My problem with that argument is McDonald should be hitting that level of production since he is a TE1 and was a second round pick.

              2. Does it really matter where people are drafted? He hasn’t lived up to his draft position.

            3. Vance McDonald from 2013-2017
              1,054 yards receiving
              8 TDs
              3 fumbles

              Garrett Celek from 2013-2017
              963 yard receiving
              10 TDs
              3 fumbles

              Like I said, neck-and-neck.

              1. That’s select but over the same time they were the same, it doesn’t represent their whole body of work. You missed my point about Starbucks and Seattle’s Best. They’re both chain coffee at best, one slightly better than the other.

              2. I compared their numbers from 2013-2017 because McDonald came into the league in 2013; I was also discounting the 2018 season for both players since my argument is that their numbers were neck-and-neck before the 2018 season.
                Making an argument for their whole body of work isn’t advisable since McDonald has mostly been a TE1 since entering the league as a second round pick, while Celek worked up to TE2 after entering the league as an UDFA. But if you want to compare their overall work, then here you go.

                Vance McDonald from 2013-2018:
                128 receptions
                1,664 yards receiving
                Avg. – 13
                22.8 yds/g
                Longest catch -75 yards in two separate seasons
                Catches for 20+ yards – 24
                Catches for 40+ yards – 4
                Catches that went for a 1st down – 76
                12 TDs
                5 fumbles

                Garrett Celek from 2012- 2018
                82 receptions
                1,104 yards receiving
                Avg. – 13.5
                12.8 yds/g
                Longest catch – 61 yards
                Catches for 20+ yards – 18
                Catches for 40+ yards – 4
                Catches that went for a 1st down – 55
                12 TDs
                3 fumbles

                All the stats were retrieved from NFL.com.

              3. I just remember the stone hands of Vance. One game, the ball hit him in both hands, and it clanked off into the arms of a DB. I may be wrong, but it might have happened twice that game.
                .
                However, since he has been with the Steelers, he has caught most of the balls thrown his way. He also rag dolled a DB and rumbled down the side line for a score, which was impressive.
                .
                Celek did have a bunch of drops, but he did catch a TD pass later in last season.
                .
                Thankfully, Kittle has made us forget about Vance, and Kaden Smith May out compete Celek and/or Toilolo.
                .
                On a personal note, Mid, I hope you find a better job, and if not, follow your heart.

              4. Mid, you mean like when Vance was a TE1 over Vernon Davis 2013-2015? He was a TE2 behind Davis for sure.

                Or you mean in 2016 when he and Celek we’re pretty much even?

                Or you mean when he was injured in 2017 for the Steelers?

                Or to blow up your argument in 2018 when he had his best season which you don’t include?

                His only real time as a TE1 was in Pittsburgh, so he didn’t play the majority of his time as a TE1.

                https://www.steelers.com/news/steelers-by-position-tes-20368733

              5. Seb way to characterize a player by a couple of plays. Kaden is so slow it’s hard to imagine he’ll be much of a receiving threat at all, save for the end zone. Maybe he blocks really well?

              6. Wilson, I characterized him with 2 words. Stone Hands. That says it all.
                .
                Kaden Smith had a 7.08 three cone drill.
                .
                Hockenson ran it in 7.02.
                .
                With more sprint training, I bet Smith can run a 40 under 4.8 seconds.
                .
                He is a good blocker, so he can help the run game.
                .
                Having a player under a 4 year rookie contract may also be a good selling point for Smith.

              7. Actually Seb it just says you’re choosing a couple of plays to define a career. It would be like saying Kaep hits the ball boy in the head every game. I don’t love Vance or Celek.

                4.8 is slow still.

              8. You are correct about the 2013- 2015 seasons, or at least until Davis was traded during the 2015 season to the Broncos, and that my comment on McDonald being mostly a TE1 is incorrect. However, from mid 2015-2016 and 2018, McDonald was been listed at TE1 on the official depth charts of the 49ers and Steelers, so he has been a TE1 for close to half of his NFL career, while Celek has never gone into a season (or game that I know of) as the TE1.
                In the end, the argument about McDonald being better than Celek is still ridiculous. The categories that McDonald is better than Celek in are areas that he should be better in given where he was drafted. But even including the 2018 season, McDonald and Celek’s stats are still fairly close together.

              9. Wilson, I said 4.8 just to be conservative.
                .
                Hockenson ran a 4.7, and was the 7th player picked in the draft.
                .
                Hmmm, are you trolling me about Kaep? ;p
                .
                Dont get me started…….

              10. I stand corrected. But it still does not change that the whole argument is ridiculous since their stats are very close.

          3. Vance was merely one of the worst at his position*, not one of the worst players in the entire league.

            *At least during his Niners tenure, he’s had an uptick in his run in the ‘burgh. Can’t blame this one on Kyle/Lynch.

              1. Mid, it’s very possible he’s a one year wonder. He’s also playing with a good QB which neither he or Celek had for a while.

          1. Are you asking me or Jack? Cause yes I disagree with Grant plenty.

            Grant is sensational, hyperbolic and negative. You could add a few more adjectives in here. But what I appreciate is he hasn’t drunk the PR koolaid that many fans drink. If I want someone to agree with me as a fan in my rose colored fantasy I will read King or the Matt’s. If I want to read someone who challenges people I read Kawakami or Cohn. We live in such a Pollyanna world sometimes.

              1. How’s this Grant? From January 2019 on KNBR…

                “The unique aspect of the 49ers is that ownership has tended to run hotter than the fans in recent years. I mean I don’t think the fans were done with Jim Harbaugh after four years, ownership was done with him after about 3.1 years and when he was winning playoff games. The Tomsula thing was just a joke, but I think the Chip Kelly thing was fans didn’t quite know what to do and ownership said ‘we just have to redo it.’

                Not exactly being a 9er toady, or a homer…

              2. Coffee, I have lost interest in reading about the 49ers and barely even check this place these days. Because we keep losing it seems like we’re on this groundhog day repeat each season. Winning would be a nice change.

    1. In the spirit of knee-jerk grading (before we know anything about how those drafted will actually perform through the season), I gave the draft a solid B.

  13. I wish to disagree with Grant. On his FF interview, he thinks JL will be on the hot seat if the season goes south.
    .
    I think JL is safe, even with another 4 win season, because who would they get to replace him? Jed does not want to go on another humiliation tour.
    .
    Many will question JL’s drafts. However, I think they are more KS’s drafts, so the guy to fire would be KS, for making the draft selections, since JL went along with who KS wanted. But KS will not be fired, unless they win only 2 games.
    .
    Paraag has his fingerprints all over some of those picks, weighing the medical and red flags with the ‘Good Value’, but KS definitely wanted Joe Williams, and got his way. It was so satisfying to hear them joke about running back to keep Paraag from trading away players, because it proved to me that Paraag did man the phone, and was meddling like mad. They sounded like they were going to take my advice, and wrest the phone away from Paraag, although I wanted him banned from the room altogether.
    .
    So, if the season does go south, who will be the sacrificial lamb? Well, JL is safe, KS is probably safe, and Paraag is Jed’s buddy, so he aint goin’ nowhere. So who is left?
    .
    Robert Saleh. He never should have been hired, but was. They should have followed the Rams example by pairing a SB winning DC with a young, innovative HC, not a LB coach. IMHO, Saleh will be the goat, and not in a good way.
    .
    Hopefully, this team will win 8 games, and avoid a losing season. Then, everyone will be safe, and Jed will be happy he does not need to go on tour. 8 games will double the wins from the last season, and if the planets align, and they can manage to snatch victory, from the jaws of defeat, they might squeak into a Wild Card spot.
    .
    To those who do not want to think of even the possibility of a losing season, you can bet Belichick has scoped out all the scenarios, and will have in hand contingency plans for every scenario and outcome. This is called making the proper preparations, to halt the skid and get back to winning. The Niners have not gotten to that point yet, and the 4th quarter letdowns are symptomatic of the situation.
    .
    If the Niners need to get back to winning, they need better planning. I hope they incorporate more of the Patriots’ game plan, because JG is totally familiar with the schemes. Now that they got more WRs, I hope they can utilize them correctly, to the maximum effect.Glad they got Toilolo, I remember he had so great catches while at Stanford. I even think he made a catch in the SB.
    .
    This will be a daunting challenge, and a hard slog, but just wishing for 11 wins will not accomplish that goal. Niners need to improve across the board, for them to succeed. Playing with violence is counter productive.
    .
    Accomplishing 16 missions should be a fundamental goal.

        1. Haha! Now I appreciate that! Quick, with a little bite to it, not mean-spirited…………worthy of the old “Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts”………..

          Your fired.

    1. Not that I hope a QB gets injured, but through attrition, some QB may get his leg landed on, and there will be a need for a QB. Maybe some QB comes in and can’t hit the broad side of a barn.
      .
      I hope the Niners trade away CJB to a QB needy team, and get a 5th or 6th round pick for him. That way, they will be getting something for him, rather than cutting him, and losing him for nothing.
      .
      If Mullens is cut, Scangarello will pick him up in a heartbeat.

      1. Beathard will expose BDN’s physical limitations throughout training camp, and protect the football better.

        1. But CJ seems to process inputs slower than Nick and Jimmy. I’m not sure that that is something that a person can improve on quickly if ever.

            1. I wish they had drafted an O lineman in the first few rounds, to give the QB/CJB more time.
              .
              He held onto the ball way too long

    1. Rollotomasi

      NO ! Celek was not better than Joe Williams…Get his head on straight, and Joe Williams is as good as any RB presently on the team…He’s not finished yet….

  14. Pardon the interruption of this clash between Grant and his detractors…..

    If global warming and climate change is really going to raise sea levels and ruin global society,
    why would any financier develop a $8 Billion commercial/residential project along the SF Bay across from
    the 49ers’ Levi stadium? Do the York’s have any financial connection to this project?

    Just askin’

    Now back to your regularly scheduled clash between Grant and his detractors.

    1. Will be a kick for paleontologists to examine the fossil record of the ‘South Bay Formation’ some 50 million years from now.

  15. WOW no more Celek time…..as I cruise these responses why the hate for Grant…???? You post here.. you spend time here// then roast him…?? Ok whatever.. will this dude even see the playing field? What about the uber slow drat pick of a tight end?….who even cares? Hey unless this team signs a great Free Safety (they are gone) or a killer OLB or a real WR? who gives a crap? / Its just playing the bs hand that this weak team has….until Jed sells the team its last place folks….Jed’s ego is too big to have a real HC or GM running the show.

    1. Would you be willing to lead a consortium to pull together sufficient funding to buy the Yorks out? I’m all for regime change–peaceful of course. Five billion USD might do the trick. Maybe start with a gofundme page.

      As you say “…until Jed sells the team its last place folks….”

      1. You are right…..until they the Dork’s sell the team its the cellar….and no I don’t have the deep pockets these dolts have……haven’t you ever met a rich idiot? They do exist…

  16. The Jets are in turmoil. They just fired their GM, and Gase said he voted against obtaining Bell.
    .
    Maybe the Niners could offer Jerick McKinnon and Tevin Coleman for Le’veon Bell.
    .
    The Niners could sweeten the deal by adding O linemen Wesly Johnson and Willie Beavers to help protect Darnold. Johnson used to play for the Jets.

    1. Alright! Bundling many players and trading remains in fashion….

      Yeah, let’s add Johnson and Beavers too…to protect Darnold. If they’re that good, can’t the 9ers just keep them to better protect 9er QBs? They are that good, no?

      Say, what did you just post?

      sebnynah says:
      May 15, 2019 at 5:38 pm
      I wish they had drafted an O lineman in the first few rounds, to give the QB/CJB more time

      Why worry about that now when Johnson and Beavers are good enough to protect Darnold?

      1. Cassie, if you look, they are not penciled in as starters. They would only be competing for a job. However, they both are veterans, so the could play right away. Rookies may take time to work out hard to develop more strength and power, and they would be going from a college system, to a Pro system, so that may take time to learn and master.
        .
        Johnson played for the Jets, so he would be familiar with them.
        .
        Yes, I would have liked for the Niners to have drafted either Chris Lindstrom(14), Cody Ford (38), Elgton Jenkins (44) or Erik McCoy (48). They were in many of my mocks. They might have been able to win a starting spot. Skule is penciled in as a PS developmental player.
        .
        I think getting Bell is worth spending 4 players for him. I did not offer a starting O lineman, or even the swing tackle and guard.

        1. Opinion is yours. Chance of happening is about nil.

          Kinda funny. They’re not good enough to protect 9er QBs (otherwise you’d advocate vigorously for them), but good enough to protect Darnold. Yup.

        2. Jets were panned for not drafting enough O linemen. Wesley Johnson played for them.
          .
          You obviously do not like Le’veon Bell.

          1. Cassie exposes her true intentions. FO pushback is dictated because I had the courage to call out Paraag, so he sics his lap dog on me.
            .
            Imagine, thinking about a couple FAs just signed with low grades, and worrying about them when I bring up the possibility of obtaining Le’veon Bell. Zero football acumen and pure snark.

            1. So courageous! Seb gets the golden cookie award! Will Grant pin it on his chest, or will he snatch it out his hands and pin it next to his many other homemade medals?

  17. AES,

    I realize I never fully addressed your earlier question.

    Just to be clear, I have no animus towards KS. Not sure when we hired him if he would/could get the job done. I had similar views on Kelly btw.

    I don’t blame KS solely for the collapse in the SB. However, Shanahan’s play calling did contribute. There were plenty others and Belichick has made lots of people look foolish over the years. Hopefully he has learned from that experience.

    Regarding Atlanta’s non return to the SB, well that is because they have made poor personnel decisions. It’s true for us too! We haven’t returned because of poor management and personnel decisions.

    What would it take for you to jump off the Shanahan train? Not trying to start something, just curious for you and other frequent posters to weigh in. I am not on his train, but I’m not off it totally either.

    As I stated earlier he is immensely talented and inventive but has yet to prove his chops as a head coach. This is not a knock against him as a coordinator, some guys can make the jump and others can’t.

    I’m not a fan of his cocksure attitude given that he is new to the job, but that is more from a likability standpoint. Never liked Harbaugh as a player or person but I felt he was a superior coach. Felt ambivalent regarding Seifert but also recognized he had a good run as a coach and coordinator. To be fair, I have never liked M. Shanahan either and see many of the same traits in his son.

    Hope that helps. I see a lot of excuses for Shanahan’s non-production and a wait and see until.

    To me, if he can’t produce a moderately good improvement in many areas (RZ and 3rd down efficiency and the ever important wins, especially on the road) I will likely write him off.

    1. SY,
      “What would it take for you to jump off the Shanahan train?”

      Good question SY.
      If there is no improvement from the team this upcoming season then it will be time to re-evaluate this regime.
      If our top players under perform, it has to be laid on Shanahan and Lynch’s lap.

      Harbaugh was a good coach, but let’s no forget that he also had a playoff caliber team to work with. Under Harbaugh they added other players and draft picks to improve the team, but the core group of players were in place.
      Alex Smith
      Frank Gore
      Vernon David
      Patrick Willis and Justin Smith, certainly made for a nice landing spot for Harbaugh.

      1. AES,

        Thanks for the response. Harbaugh had a team of underperformers. He made them into champions. That’s a good coach no matter how you slice it. If you don’t believe me look what he did at SD State and Stanford. He has had success wherever he goes.

        I do think that this year is critical for Kyle’s success. If players don’t perform it could be a long year for Shanahan.

        1. SY,
          In no way was I denigrating Harbaugh’ coaching ability and like you said his track record speaks for itself.

          Remember that even Mike Singletary was 18-22 during his stint as head coach. If Iron Mike can win 18 games, for me it’s more of a testament to team talent then coaching.

          Which leads me back to Harbaugh inheriting a playoff caliber team – of course as you say, he made them into (almost) champions.
          I believe “great mighty men” was Harbaugh’ praise.

  18. 49ers have added Hurd, Smith and now Toilolo this offseason. Better believe this team was not happy with the options after Kittle.

    1. I can’t believe they stop and stare, and point their fingers, doubting me. Their disbelief suppresses them, but they’re not blind. It’s just that they won’t see. I’m a believer. I ain’t no deceiver. Mountains move before my eyes. Destiny planned out. I don’t need no handout. Speculation of the wise….

    2. Scooter McG

      ‘Right on the money…we have been through some dogs at TE, it is true…I wasn’t even all that hot about Vernon Davis, but I believe that he was the best since Brent…until Kittles…I do like all 4of them right now…but I think it’s a shame that Dwelley won’t get an honest shot with Toilolo now in the fold….

      1. Kittle will end up being the best TE we ever had. Better than Francis, better than Franks, and one day, better than Jones….

  19. I wish to propose a trade. The Broncos are trying to sign Chris Harris to a long term contract, but only has 10 mil in cap space. He is 30, but may be better than any of the Niner CBs.
    .
    DeMarcus Walker DL, was picked 51st in the 2017 draft, and is better suited for a 4-3 system.
    .
    The Niners should offer Solomon Thomas and Jimmie Ward, for Chris Harris and DeMarcus Walker. The Niners sweeten the deal by offering to pay 2 mil of Ward’s salary.
    .
    Donte Whitner thinks Solomon Thomas may be best suited for a 3-4 system. Fangio specializes in the 3-4 system. Both Thomas and Walker may thrive in different systems than the ones they are in now.
    .
    Maybe the Niners could sweeten the deal by offering Ahkello Witherspoon instead of Ward.
    .
    It would be a win/win deal for both teams. Denver cannot afford Harris, and the Niners have 35 mil in cap space. Thomas may thrive with Fangio putting him in the best position to succeed, and Walker has a non stop motor.

    1. Seb

      Leave Witherspoon alone !

      I was agreed on your deal until the second to the last paragraph (sentence)…Please quit trying to save Ward to the niner bench…! Witherspoon will do fine this year…HIS THIRD…

      1. Ore, I just think Chris Harris would be an upgrade over Witherspoon. There are also Sherman, Moore and Verrett as CB options. Sure, Witherspoon is superior to Ward, but they need to balance out the trade to make it fair to both sides.

  20. Maybe he can send out a large contingent of syncopated cheerleaders to Levi’s. At least we know that they will cheer even when the team is losing, or else 😱

  21. SY,
    “What would it take for you to jump off the Shanahan train?”

    Good question SY.
    If there is no improvement from the team this upcoming season then it will be time to re-evaluate this regime.
    If our top players under perform, it has to be laid on Shanahan and Lynch’s lap.

    Harbaugh was a good coach, but let’s no forget that he also had a playoff caliber team to work with. Under Harbaugh they added other players and draft picks to improve the team, but the core group of players were in place.
    Alex Smith
    Frank Gore
    Vernon Davis
    Patrick Willis and Justin Smith, certainly made for a nice landing spot for Harbaugh.

    1. SY

      Harbaugh hasn’t ever won anything….He specializes in taking over good teams and going nowhere with them…In San Diego, in Stanford, the 49ers, and now Michigan…and from here ? He needs a trophy case with something already in it…IMHO, he couldn’tcoach a cockroach out of his Khakis with a slide rule….

  22. What another TE??? So we have too many Dlineman too many TE’s too many RB’s and not enough FS’s or OLB’s or CB’s…ok sounds like the Niners FO is at it again loading up on certain positions on the roster not surprised.

    Gonna miss Celek time but last year he really stunk it up sheeeesh.

    HI Grant!!! did the rest of the Frisco Niner posters and Homers miss me??? LOL

  23. English is a marvelous language until it comes to the word-‘Ego’. We Americans throw that around, using that one word to cover a broad spectrum of meanings: self confidence, self assurance and assertiveness- attributes that most people think of as positive.
    .
    But there is another side that can wreck a team or an organization. That is being distracted by your own importance. It can come from your insecurity in working with others. It can be the need to call attention to yourself in the public arena. It can be a feeling that others are a threat to your own territory. These are all negative manifestation of egos, and if you are not alert to them, you get diverted and your work becomes diffused. Ego in these cases make people insensitive to how they work with others and ends up interfering with the real goal of any group efforts.- BW.

      1. I knew I could post something Bill Walsh wrote, and you would still be snarky about it.
        .
        BTW, that quote was aimed at KS.

        1. “But there is another group that can break a club or organization. It will affect your attention. It can come from the desire to work with other people. Can you consider the public opinion? You may feel that other people are in danger in your land. All are negative, and if you are not alert, you are separated and your job is different. These Ego events focus on how to work with others and endeavor to co-operate with genuine aspirations of the group’s efforts.”

          1. No, no, every other poster on this site SWEARS they do not read these posts, and therefor are not affected by them.
            ,
            If they let public opinion affect them negatively, they are are not strong willed and resolute.
            .
            You, yourself consider ignorance is bliss. So much so, you are a master of it.

        2. O for cryin out loud, Sebs–you don’t even know the man.

          He’s not going to draft who you want just because you want it. He has a plan, and a particular type of player he wants to fill it. He has every right as the HC to do so……in fact, it’s expected of him.

          If there’s no improvement shown by December !st, you’ll have every right to be the negative nabob that you are. He’s got most if not all of what he wants. Why not be patient and see what happens?

          1. Sun Zoo would have advocated patience. Im only holding him responsible for the last 2 yrs-and he was in quite the fix last yr.

            1. Hmmm, he was 4-12 last season, so I must treat him like he went 12-4?
              .
              Many posters would say that 4-12 HCs should be fired, especially when he admits he should have won 3 more games.
              .
              I am negative for predicting he will double his win total from last season? That sounds pretty positive, to me.
              .
              Nice Spiro attribution- ‘Negative Nabobs.’

              1. Hmmmmmm…………………..Zoo says patience……….Chapter 3, pg 114..”When your adversary (as KS is to you for letting you-know-who go) is preparing for war, let him make the first move, so as to expose himself first-the battle will fall accordingly”…………Sound wisdom.

                Don’t go against ‘Zoo, Sebbs………………….

              2. Hmmm, this is the off season, so nobody is playing.
                .
                Maybe it would be better to prepare for conflict.

            2. Sun Tzu would have advocated studying the situation intensely, and quite thoroughly. Find faults and fix them, assess weaknesses and strengthen them and learn from their mistakes.
              .
              He would have advocated striking while the iron is hot, and making quick and timely adjustments.He would have prepared for every contingency, and establish resiliency.
              .
              Have the Niners done that? We will see.

  24. Toilolo sounds like Toileto or Toiletbowl er never mind….When is this team going to bring in someone special? that has a WOW factor=WOW this team is serious….I guess may as well get ready for hell to freeze over

    What is weird is Kittle breaks records and they bring in 2 new TE’s….weird when there are so many holes on the fkn roster christsakes…

  25. Sam Monson
    @PFF_Sam
    27%

    @Scott_Geelan
    31m31 minutes ago
    Percentage 49ers were in base personnel last season… and people wanted to draft Josh Allen because the team apparently needed a SAM linebacker (a position that only plays in base)

    1. Grant broke down the film and said he was the best player in the draft. That changed my mind for sure. Grant obviously knows more from watching a few highlight tapes than the hundreds of scouts and gms who have devoted their entire lives to football.

      I low-key get the feeling Grant tries to be anti 49ers. I personally have no issues with it, but it is a little fishy when he starts ripping on Bosa just as it started to become clear that he was the 49ers guy.

      On a final somewhat off base note, it just seems weird to me that Grant and his muse Sebbie use draft rankings and breakdowns to their convenience. They used them to be anti Hurd, but then disagree with all sources that point to Bosa being better than Allen.

      It is just all weird.

      1. I did not know it was illegal to use rankings when talking about draft picks.
        .
        I also think Bosa was ranked too high, and agree with JL. Q Williams was the best defensive player in the draft.

        1. At least be consistent sebbie. You point to the rankings with Hurd all the time as evidence that it was a bad pick. If you really believe that source is reliable, should you not look at where Bosa was ranked and think the niners hit it out of the park?

          I actually agree with you on Q Williams. In my opinion that two can’t miss players in that draft were Kyler Murray and Q Williams. I love Bosa, but in my opinion, his ceiling is not as high as the other two.

          1. I fully concede that Bosa should be ranked very high. My main concern is that he has injury issues, and when they held him out of the Rookie practices due to core issues, my suspicion was confirmed. If he was totally healthy, like many claimed, he should have participated.
            .
            I also will concede that Bill Walsh said it does not matter where a player is drafted, just as long as he can help the team, but he also believed in multiple picks, so more chances for success, and less chance of making a mistake by putting all their eggs in one basket, and dropping it.
            .
            The funny thing is that every poster has used the rankings, and mocks are handy because teams are usually getting (1/32) one thirty second’s amount of the draft. Drafts are variable, and few can master a draft, and those that do can count on luck, and insider information.
            .
            Glad the Niners went with their gut, and bravely chose players few other teams would take a chance on. However, the red flag and medical players are good value, but they are also a big risk.
            .
            The Niners selected players that KS thinks fit into his scheme. This was his draft, and he will have to live his picks. Hope they work out, but there will be some busts in every round, for every team, every year. Guess I will just say that reaching as a strategy does not look shrewd, but it is their call.
            .
            Maybe they should go with their heart, and their brain. 4th round punter? Even JL questioned the wisdom of that reach.

      2. Damn you’re either dumb or just can’t read.

        That Allen could play SAM was looked at as a bonus. Everyone knows that the use of the base D is minimal. Grant was touting Allen because he felt that he was the best edge rusher available.

        1. Chill…. I was being sarcastic.
          Obviously everyone looked at Josh Allen as a pass rusher and not a sam linebacker.

          I understood exactly why Grant was touting Allen. It is just funny to me how Grant is able to “evaluate” film and let everyone else know that Allen is better than Bosa.

          1. Sure

            “I low-key get the feeling Grant tries to be anti 49ers.”

            The 49ers have sucked the last 4 years. 17 wins shouldn’t garner praise.

            As I wrote the other day, you come off as just a poor little fan boy blogger that feels left out because you dont have the opportunity to get paid to write and watch sports.

            1. I also said I have no issues with it. The niners deserve a lot of criticism, but hating on the Bosa pick is reaching for hate. To draw a parallel, the browns have been an inept organization for the last 20 plus years. At the same time, hating on them for picking Myles Garrett would have just been a reach.

              I have an actual job. For me, writing is just a hobby. I have always maintained that Grant is someone like one of us who is given a platform because of his daddy. Obviously good for him, he utilized the resources available to him, but that does not make him good at his job.

              To be honest, you are right. I am salty that someone as incompetent as Grant has a platform to write this garbage.

              1. Yet you keep coming back.

                Bosa is going to be a disappointment.

                If Grant wasn’t good at his job he wouldn’t be going on year 9.

              2. ‘Oh, beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-ey’d monster, which doth mock the meat it feeds on.’ -WS.

              3. Even if Lowell got Grant in the door you don’t stick for 9 years if you aren’t good at your job.

                Continuing to harp on that just makes you look small Viggy.

              4. Sure, I won’t disagree with you there. I think that my stance is a possibility given the content Grant has put out for 9 years, but you are right it is not fair for me to harp on it.

                I offer this to you though. Is it really to Grant’s credit that he has stuck around here for 9 years? He doesn’t even get paid to go on the road and he has little to no access to players and coaches alike.. Even I have a press pass for warriors home games, and I do not even get paid for my writing. The fact that he has not been promoted could mean something too.

              5. That Grant doesn’t go to the 49ers road games any longer has more to do with the PD finances than his job performance.

                As for availability to players and coaches, he has the same availability as every other writer.

                Grant covers the 49ers, Warriors, and of the Giants were good I’m sure he’d probably be covering them as well.

                I’ve wasted enough of my day on this back and forth. Continue to make yourself look like a putz.

              6. Hammer you really get personal when someone goes at your buddy Grant. The access I am talking about is the insider information that allows reporters to break stories and give us fans facts about the team we may not know. Grant does neither of these things. You obviously have an infatuation with Grant which is great for you, but that does not make me a putz for having a different opinion. Obviously I am wasting my time talking to you as well. Your objectivity regarding Grant is equal to Seb.

                I am not going to get personal with you.

              7. Oh I’m not calling you a putz because your opinion is different. I’m calling you a putz because your facts on the situation are not correct yet you keep going on.

                It’s typical fanboy blogger rage.

                These guys are all chasing the same info, and for the most part their reporting is all the same stuff.

              8. I see you have learned the art of generalizing well from your boy Cohn.

                I think I do know what I am talking about, but if you don’t believe so you are totally entitled to your opinion.

                My underlying point was that there is a reason Grant is writing at the PD where they have no money. Grant is literally an elevated version of a blogger. Every slur you threw at me applies to Grant, the difference being that Grant had help to get a paid job. Please I beg you give me one example of a story that Grant broke or insight that he gave on the 49ers that was groundbreaking.

                You continue to get personal with me for absolutely no reason. I am yet to make a personal remark on you.

              9. Hammer, Bosa is going to be a disappointment.

                Buckner, “I watched some of his film. He’s a great player, I can see why they picked him at No. 2.”

              10. Grant has done work for other publications as well, and the “breaking stories” thing isn’t a generalization. For the most part these are broken by the two that I referenced and then parroted out from there. As for Grant breaking one, I don’t know and really don’t care. I don’t come here for breaking news. I get that through my Twitter feed.

                As for insights, there’s been a number of them through the years when it comes to how he sees things shaking out for a team or a player, etc.

                If you think calling you a fanboy blogger is a slur that’s funny. I’ve been in the situation you are and acted a fool just like you are. I was actually trying to give you a some help, but you do you my man.

              11. Razor,

                I heard that yesterday morning. Regardless, do you expect him to go on the radio and say he thinks Bosa sucks and the organization blew it?

                The performance of Bosa starting in September will be what decides if the pick is a disappointment. Feel free to come at me then.

              12. Hammer says, do you expect him to go on the radio and say he thinks Bosa sucks and the organization blew it?

                I didn’t expect him to have studied his tape, and since he quantified his statement with that acknowledgment; it reinforces its genuineness.

                Hammer says, The performance of Bosa starting in September will be what decides if the pick is a disappointment. Feel free to come at me then., after he says:,

                Bosa is going to be a disappointment.

              13. Razor,

                The next time a player goes on a radio show and calls out a top draft pick before he’s ever played a down will be a first. And quite frankly, I hope he truly does feel that way since he’s stuck with him for the next couple years regardless.

                You think the pick was a good one correct? I would say so based on the majority of your comments.

                I happen to to think it’ll end up being disappointing.

                You can post all the positive comments about the guy that you want and it doesn’t prove that my feeling is incorrect.

                That was my point.

                Is it me or are some folks around here just being thick on purpose?

              14. Jack Hammer, everyone but you, CFC, and Grant believes Nick Bosa was the correct pick. Kendrick Bourne weeks before the draft said that was who he wanted. Wasn’t on a radio show though. Did he have to say that too?

                Jack Hammer, you seem to have lost your fastball and are left with just a knuckle ball. You’ve been contradicting yourself lately. First you said Shanny can’t win, and then predict 11 wins. Then you say The Bosa Constrictor will be a disappointment, then you say September will determine whether or not he’s a disappointment.

                Jack Hammer says, is it me or are some folks around here just being thick on purpose?

                It’s you.

              15. “Jack Hammer, everyone but you, CFC, and Grant believes Nick Bosa was the correct pick.”

                That is factually incorrect. There was 1, perhaps 2 covering the draft for KNBR out here that didn’t think he should be the pick. There were former 49ers players who thought he shouldn’t be the pick. There were other former players who thought he shouldn’t be the pick.

              16. Jack Hammer says, That is factually incorrect. There was 1, perhaps 2 covering the draft for KNBR out here that didn’t think he should be the pick. There were former 49ers players who thought he shouldn’t be the pick. There were other former players who thought he shouldn’t be the pick.

                Your consternation would be warranted if in fact it was delivered as factually correct, but to anyone that still has their fastball would realize; it was in fact an obvious exaggeration as a point of emphasis that 99.49% of the paid pundits agreed with Nick Bosa as the best pick, and/or best player in the draft….

              17. “….. Nick Bosa as the best pick, and/or best player in the draft….”

                We’ll see. I have no problem being proven wrong.

              18. What’s the point? If he gets opposing qb’s in a Stranglehold baby, you’ll still get in the way with, …he was set up to be good by Buckner and Ford….

              19. Niner–

                This thing you have for Grant is poisonous. Having a family member relevant to your career can open doors, no doubt….but after you walk through the door, the individual has to earn his keep. Grant has done that.
                This antipathy you have for Grant is kind of gross. You might want to let it alone.

            1. Sure Seb. Josh Allen is a really good player. That does not make him better than bosa though.

              Also regarding your last post, I personally hate the immediate analysis of drafts. We have no clue what the circumstances for these players will be. It is an utter waste of time to grade picks. I remember Mel Kiper ripped the Seahawks for both their 2011 and 2012 drafts which turned out to bring them a Super bowl.

              Grant does this with an insane amount of arrogance. He breaks down the drafts as if he already knows what they bring. He knows nothing and to be fair neither do the 49ers thus making it impossible to take a strong stance on a draft either way. I just hope they picked players that fit their scheme and locker room who hopefully contribute because this is the right situation for them.

              1. I did not want them to draft Allen, either. I wanted them to trade back and select Clelin Ferrell.
                .
                I agreed with Mayock.

              2. Sebbers you keep digging yourself a deeper hole. Mayock drafting Ferrell at 4 was a gigantic reach according to all the big draft boards. By your logic should it not be a bad pick just like Hurd?

              3. Seb, I do not know if it was a reach. I really do not know how every team viewed Hurd and whether someone else would have taken him if the niners didn’t. Same thing with Ferrell. I am just pointing out how your logic makes absolutely no sense.

              4. The Ringers had him ranked 6. The draft network had him ranked 11th. Others had him First mid round. He went 4.
                .
                Hurd was ranked 150 to 313, and was picked at 67.
                .
                Which was the bigger reach?
                .
                Ferrell helped them win a National Championship, with a non stop motor, so that was a big factor in Mayock’s reasoning.

  26. Everytime The Bosa Constrictor gets a sack, he can be heard yelling at the quarterback, I got you in a Stranglehold baby, you best get the Euck out of the way!

  27. Mike Renner

    Verified account

    @PFF_Mike
    May 8
    More
    Rams ran outside zone 217 times during 2018 regular season – 52 more than any other team

    Darrell Henderson on outside zone last two years:
    53 Attempts
    569 Yards
    10.7 YPC (led nation)
    7.0 YAC/Attempt (led nation)
    23 First downs
    16 broken tackles

  28. Jon Ledyard

    Verified account

    @LedyardNFLDraft
    May 6
    More Jon Ledyard Retweeted DHG
    He has more flashes/ball skills than a lot of the other “traits” CBs (Ole Miss game) but he’s inconsistent technically, tackling is all over the place and he gives up too many splash plays. Speed is an issue too.Jon Ledyard added,
    DHG

    @DHG34335207
    Replying to @LedyardNFLDraft
    Thoughts on Joejuan Williams?
    1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    Reply 1 Retweet

  29. Jon Ledyard

    Verified account

    @LedyardNFLDraft
    May 6
    More Jon Ledyard Retweeted Bosa deez nuts
    I like Hurd, that was a bit high for him, but I liked their first two days. Greenlaw and Tim Harris have a shot to contribute.Jon Ledyard added,
    Bosa deez nuts

    @SF49ers3
    Replying to @LedyardNFLDraft
    Thoughts on SF’s draft? Thought they really hit on their first 2 picks, but Hurd was a bit of a surprise in rd3 to me.
    1 reply 1 retweet 12 likes
    Reply 1 Retweet 1 Like 12 Direct message

  30. Jon Ledyard

    Verified account

    @LedyardNFLDraft
    May 6
    More Jon Ledyard Retweeted Bartek Wieczorek
    1. L.J. Collier going Rd 1, from tape/production/testing perspective, is absolute mind-bender. But Seattle in Rd 1 *shrugs*

    2. Finley decent backup at best

    3. Rd 2 picks I had day 3 grades on: Greg Little, Joejuan W, Banogu, Sample, Lonnie Johnson, Scharping, Hardman, T. HillJon Ledyard added,
    Bartek Wieczorek

    @B_KnowsSports
    Replying to @LedyardNFLDraft
    1. What was the most baffling pick in your opinion? Which pick was in your opinion illogical?
    2.What’s your opinion on Ryan Finley and how do you view Bengals draft?
    3.Who was overdrafted (especially on day 2)?
    5 replies 2 retweets 12 likes
    Reply 5 Retweet 2 Like 12

    1. Collier fits Pete Carroll’s ideal for finding a replacement to Michael Bennett. He was a Senior Bowl standout against good O linemen.
      .
      Greg Little had great college tape. JoeJuan Williams was selected by the Pats, who moved up to get him. I would take the assessment of the SB champs and Belichick over a draft pundit. Sample ran the same speed as Hockenson. Lonnie Johnson is cat quick, Hardman is a fast replacement for Hill. Banogu has good measurables, and the Colts have drafted well in the second round these past 2 drafts.

      1. Notice the absence of the punter, The Big Wishnowsky.

        Greg Little had great college tape? Not to me he didn’t.

        1. It was commenting on second round reaches.
          .
          I just looked at his highlights, and he smothered players. Maybe he had better games in 2017, his sophomore season, but he has 35.25″ arms, and his O line was 5th in pass protect last season, I think.
          .
          But you may be right. I think Cody Ford, who was picked next, is superior to Little.

          1. What was the most baffling pick in your opinion? Which pick was in your opinion illogical?

            Didn’t specify round with that question. The punter was not an absolute mind bender.

            1. Daniel Jones at 6.
              .
              Max Sharping going at 55, ranked 131 on CBS, but 101 on Draftek.
              .
              Hurd at 67 ranked 313, but he was a top 100 for Zierlien, and I think Jeremiah at 90.

  31. Marino:

    SACKS: NICK BOSA, DE, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
    You know the Bosa brothers are competitive and Nick is eyeing Joey’s 10.5-sack rookie season (12 games) and aiming to top it. On a loaded 49ers defensive line, Bosa is primed to turn in a monster rookie season. Boasting a translatable and NFL-ready pass rushing skill set, Bosa and Dee Ford are among the most potent duo’s of EDGE rushers the league features. San Francisco did a terrific job of making its primary weakness and area of strength this offseason.

    Prediction: 11 sacks

    2018 Leader: Bradley Chubb, 12 sacks

    1. “San Francisco did a terrific job of making its primary weakness and area of strength this offseason.”

      Yep. This was by far the best thing they did all offseason. I honestly didn’t expect them to trade for one of the top edge guys available so I had resigned myself to the team getting one of the next tier guys in FA and pairing him with one of the top edge guys in the draft. That in itself would have been a big improvement. But trading for Ford makes the edges for the 49ers a real strength.

      1. I’m with you on this. I thought they would get a middle of the road player and maybe one in the draft. That they went after the rush as hard as they did given their total lack of addressing last year was one of the off-season’s most pleasant surprises. And if any one area impacts the team wins in a positive way, it will be here.

        1. Eight. Bosa will play well, but will be dinged here and there through the season. My opinion. Hope I’m wrong.

              1. Not if there was a $hit ton of disruption, which created sacks for his team mates.

              2. The DE playing opposite him had 13 sacks last year, and the DT inside had 12. If he only gets 8 it won’t be an improvement from a year ago.

                Now if he only gets 8, but has a ton of pressures to go along with it and the QB rating allowed drops as a result you’d be correct.

              3. I’ve not really understood your point of view on the edge upgrades Jack. Your comments the past month seem to suggest you think plugging Ford in would simply translate to a big upgrade to the team pass rush, no matter who else they added. There was no need to then add Bosa. I’m sure your view isn’t as simple as that but that is certainly how you have portrayed it in your comments.

                To me that makes little sense. Ford comes from a team that had a very good DT next to him and a very good DE opposite him. Adding just Ford would be an improvement, sure, but I don’t think it would have been a huge improvement. You can plan around one or two guys. The combination of multiple good pass rushers is what makes a very good team pass rush. And if one of those guys doesn’t hit 10+ sacks but the team as a whole has plenty and affects the QB I just don’t see how that is anything but a huge positive.

                Now I agree with your comment that the pass rush needs to affect the QB to be considered a success. Getting sacks is obviously part of that. Forcing bad throws or the QB to throw before they want to is another important part. So is forcing an opponent to change their game plan to limit the effectiveness of the rush.

              4. I hope Kocurek can coach the pass rushers to get a hand up in the air to tip the ball. That may create more interception opportunities.
                .
                However, that tipped pass does not show up in the stats, unless it is picked off, but is still very important.

              5. “…….plugging Ford in would simply translate to a big upgrade to the team pass rush, no matter who else they added.”

                He’s a hige upgrade over what they had in 2018 at DE.

                “There was no need to then add Bosa.”

                I felt Williams would give them a bigger bang. Putting him next to Buckner would cause a lot of problems because QB’s hate pressure in their face much more than off the edge.

                “Ford comes from a team that had a very good DT next to him and a very good DE opposite him.”

                See last paragraph.

                The 49ers got roughly 8 total sacks out of the guys who played the same spot Bosa will man this year. If he can only match that it isn’t an upgrade and would be a disappointment unless he is also garnering a higher rate of pressures.

              6. “The 49ers got roughly 8 total sacks out of the guys who played the same spot Bosa will man this year. If he can only match that it isn’t an upgrade and would be a disappointment unless he is also garnering a higher rate of pressures.”

                I’m not sure that the sum of the parts equals the whole in this case. In other words, it is highly unlikely that opposing teams, during their preparation, gave any consideration to Marsh or Blair coming off the edge. But if Bosa, by himself, is on a pace to garner 8 or more sacks, I think opposing teams are more likely to pay attention to him. It might seem strange to say this, when the net effect appears to be the same, but I bet that it is true. It’s probably also true that the “one” guy who can get 8 sacks also pressures the QB more than the two guys who combined get 8 sacks (who each on their own aren’t considered good enough to be the sole starter at DE). So, while I love “da sack”, consistently pressuring the QB seems more important.

              7. You’re right, Cubus. Disruption equals production. I think the 2018 Bears were a prime example of what we want to be upfront pressure wise, and that’s inside out. They had at least one inside penetrator and two speedballs outside in what I like to call, Three Prong Attack. We’ll have Buckner next to Armstead with Thomas in rotation inside, and the new Ford Bosa off both edges. I tried to explain this rationale to Hammer months ago, but he’s still looking for his fastball….⚾

              8. “He’s a huge upgrade over what they had in 2018 at DE.”

                Sure, but that by itself doesn’t necessarily translate into a huge improvement for the team. He had 13 sacks and a lot of pressures on a team where he was one of a bunch of good rushers. He got a lot of 1-on-1 opportunities. By himself he may or may not have a huge impact for the 49ers.

                “The 49ers got roughly 8 total sacks out of the guys who played the same spot Bosa will man this year. If he can only match that it isn’t an upgrade and would be a disappointment unless he is also garnering a higher rate of pressures.”

                First off, why are you assuming Bosa takes 100% of snaps? I imagine he will take a high number, but other guys will get an opportunity.

                Second, getting 8 sacks from your 3rd leading sack getter would be a huge upgrade.

                Third, where has anyone said anything about his impact only being the sacks he gets? You referenced the previous thread about what people would be happy with sack-wise from him in your first post. That thread was structured to get a response on one limited aspect of his play, but many people in that thread (myself included) already outlined an expectation his overall play should produce more than just sacks. If all he does is get the same kind of clean up sacks Marsh was getting I would be very disappointed.

              9. “By himself he may or may not have a huge impact for the 49ers.”

                Good thing Ford will be lining up next to a DT that had 12 sacks last year and has proven to be very good inside.

                “First off, why are you assuming Bosa takes 100% of snaps?”

                I’m not.

                “Second, getting 8 sacks from your 3rd leading sack getter would be a huge upgrade.”

                Only if the snap percentages remain the same, and they won’t.

                “Third, where has anyone said anything about his impact only being the sacks he gets?”

                No, and neither have I.

                “Jack Hammer says:
                May 17, 2019 at 6:51 pm
                The DE playing opposite him had 13 sacks last year, and the DT inside had 12. If he only gets 8 it won’t be an improvement from a year ago.

                Now, if he only gets 8 but has a ton of pressures to go along with it and the QB rating allowed drops as a result you’d be correct.“

    2. “San Francisco did a terrific job of making its primary weakness an area of strength this offseason.”

      I wouldn’t agree with that statement. Defensive backfield was/is their primary weakness and remains so. It’s debatable whether Receiver or Pass rush was #2. Pass rusher was potentially the teams 3rd ranked need.

      1. An argument can be made as to what was the primary weakness, that is fair. For mine it was edge. They didn’t have one legitimate starter on the roster imo. At DB they had Sherman and had already invested in youth at the position (while this wasn’t a reason to ignore the position, it was a reason to think edge was the greater need) while at WR they had Pettis and Goodwin who, while one is unproven and the other is often injured (and neither are great), are better than what they had at edge.

    1. CFB,
      As much as I dislike the raiders, I have to admit that they are doing it right.
      Their new stadium might become the jewel of Las Vegas.

      But it may also become a curse for young players not mature and disciplined enough to control themselves.

  32. Ben Franklin said: Fish and friends smell after three days. I think he would add Grant’s threads to the list were he alive today.

    1. I cannot tell a lie. I did not know that Newberry was even growing cherries.
      .
      I also grow things, I do not destroy things.
      .
      Hope they catch the culprits.

    2. Well, considering how he cherry picks “facts” and stats he’s been taking liberties for far to long…

      1. * Too
        .
        Cassie trolls and accuses others of a despicable act of vandalism, yet you take her side. Bravo.

        1. Considering you accuse others of all kinds of nefarious intentions, I find it deeply ironic. Besides, everyone here knows that Cassie was merely mentioning you tongue in cheek.

          You, in your narcissistic delusional worldview think that somehow this is equivalent to your fevered hallucinogenic accusations of others.

          1. So, another shill for Paraag? I sure must have hit too close for comfort. No wonder I am attacked so much.

              1. Nothing you do matters. You think we care. We don’t. We just laugh at the fool on the hill.

  33. The fun never ends…
    https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/County-Assessor-Challenges-6M-Tax-Break-For-49ers-on-Levis-Stadium-510201821.html

    In part… “The Santa Clara County Assessor filed a legal challenge Monday arguing that the 49ers should not be allowed a 50 percent property tax break on Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara.

    The 49ers rent the stadium from the Santa Clara Stadium Authority, which is overseen by the Santa Clara City Council. In January, the Assessment Appeals Board granted the team an annual property tax reduction of $6 million per year and a one-time refund of $36 million.

    County Assessor Larry Stone is now arguing that local school and community college districts will lose out as a result of the tax break, and that the 49ers possess a “lions share” of the stadium and its events, instead of sharing evenly with the city.”

    1. Grant…

      When the NBA season concludes, you should dig into the 9ers/Santa Clara (city and county) friction that’s been going on for some time. Do some investigative reporting and tell us what you find. I suspect you’ll uncover some less-than-flattering material on the 9ers organization and its ownership.

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