SANTA CLARA — Watch their feet. And then think of Joe Montana. Let that iconic name travel through your brain.
The 49ers quarterbacks all use Joe Montana’s exact footwork when they drop back from center. That’s right, Joe Montana’s. This is radically new, if it weren’t so old. They studied Montana’s clips and replicated his movements step for step during minicamp and OTAs. It was what they tried to learn. Montana 101.
They reached into their team’s glorious past.
Almost no one in the NFL uses Montana’s footwork anymore. It’s old school and outdated. But it worked for him and it can work for the 49ers’ young quarterbacks, too.
“You always want to learn from the best,” 49ers quarterback Nick Mullens said this week during minicamp. “Joe was one of the quickest at getting out from under center. That’s one thing we thought we could improve on. It has really helped. Joe was the best at it. We watch the best.”
Here’s what Montana did:
Click here to read the rest of the article.
KS thinks his system is totally different from the WCO.
.
Glad they are going back to their roots.
KS’s offense is not remotely close to the WCO. Teaching different drop steps has nothing to do with offensive strategy.
++
Stay at home mom Kelly Richards from New York after resigning from her full time job managed to average from $6000-$8000 a month from freelancing at home… This is how she done it
…….
▬▬☛USA~JOB-START
+++
Yes, the classic WCO is not used, but all of the concepts are there. Scripted plays, setting up plays, creating mismatches, attacking weaknesses, misdirections and utilizing a fullback.
.
What KS cannot master is game management, and finishing games. KS is also blowing it by creating too wordy verbiage. Why say 12 words when 6 words could say it all? By making it too complicated, it slows them down.
.
KS is just kidding himself to think he does not need an OC. BW was a genius, but KS’s implosion in the SB proved that he was not a genius, and his losses over the last 2 seasons prove he will never be a genius.
.
KS is clever, but he is not clever enough to win consistently, unless he starts learning from his mistakes.
.
Declaring he does not give a damn, just means he is arrogant, and full of hubris. He needs to become more humble, and accept help.
Get over yourself. Geez…
If you were drawing up plays and applying your terminology, it would take a good 90 seconds for the QB to get the play called–a mix of numbers, arcane polysyllable words, and tortured cliches.
Jump for joy, training camp is just around the corner.
More Baalke stench.
.
I would have them call the play for first and 10, play for second an short, and 3 different third down plays designated ahead of time. All scripted plays that begins the game, then plays designed ahead of time depending on down and distance. They would not need to say more than a couple words.
.
KS thinks he has a brand new offensive concept? He can call it his own, but it has all been thought of before.
.
KS thinks he does not think he use WCO concepts? Maybe he should talk to Mike Shanahan.
* Thinks he does not use…
Sebs ‘ol bean………………
You better be right this upcoming year..
That Shanny, in effect knows nothing…..
Blaming KS for a loss that his HC is ultimately responsible for, not to mention the collapse of their D in that SB……..
This neurotic nonsense that they must give someone the title “OC”–when someone is already doing the equivalent for him………….
And having the attitude that KS can’t learn, tho there has been MANY changes to the team since he took over. If he’s incapable of learning, of discerning good football from bad–was it someone else’s judgement to make the changes that have been made? Who did it, then? And how do you absolutely know this?
If your right this year, and they do suck to the level you are always implying, you can crow and i’ll take it. You can do a “Seb-onian” i.e. crow all year.
But if your wrong, I will come to your front door and plant a 9er flag where you cant possibly miss it.
What’s more, I will ask Cassie to go into the archives and throw your negativity right back on your lap–all year long. We will throw it back in your face until the end of time…………………
GO NINERS!!!!!!!!!!!
Saw, I do think KS is smart, but he imploded in the SB. Then, when he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory last season, it seemed like he did not learn from his mistakes.
.
Believe it or not, it is very hard to win in this league. Around a sixth of all the HCs are fired every season. You are ignoring the fact that the Niners need to overcome a playoff team, and a SB team.
.
The Niners are 4th in cap space, so 28 other teams have spent more than the Niners.
.
I have predicted an 8-8 season, so I see marked improvement. They might double their win total from last season. How is that doom and gloom?
.
I am taking into consideration that injuries will occur. You seem to think that the Niners will not lose a single player. With too many injuries, a winning season is almost impossible.
.
Ask Cassie to scour the archives for dirt? That is what she already does. Big deal. Considering that you accused me of being a Nazi, you should not be crowing about archives.
.
GO NINERS !!!!!!
Sebbie….this quote?
sebnynah says:
April 23, 2016 at 3:48 pm
AES, keep your chin up. The Niners have 6 DBs who all run sub 4.5 40’s. They finally have a coach who will utilize Hayne properly. Hyde is healthy may have learned not to keep struggling so he will not get blown up again. Chip may convince Kaep to stay. The O line coach helped win Super Bowls for NY. They have Smelter who is big, fast and finally healthy. They have Rogers who tore up the Canadian league. Busta may bust out and be a playmaker. Purcell will be the NT and his goal line stands showed his worth. I pray that Jed insists on re-signing Boldin to keep his promise to retain veteran leadership. Eli Harold has gained bulk and is stronger. Dorsey looks like he is rehabbing well.
That is dirt?
.
I was just trying to be positive. AES must have been discouraged.
.
Too bad Baalke was still the GM, and kept dismantling the team. Baalke was a tyrant, and insisted on meddling with the coaching. He dominated the player decisions and determined the lineups. Too bad all the decent free agents avoided Baalke like the plague, and he only managed to sign Beadles.
.
His ACL DBs struggled. They cut Hayne. He stabbed Kaep in the back. The O line performed like drek.Smelter smelled, Busta busted and Rogers proved why he was in the CFL, so he showed why Baalke was such a horrible talent evaluator.
Again, with the KS exploded in the SB-but his head coach had nothing to do with it-nothing. Nor did the DC, who was outflanked at every turn in the 2nd half.
Right there is what is meant when people say, Sebby sees precisely what he wants to see, and he hears precisely what he wants to hear–so that it fits his thoughts and narrative exactly. Then, conveniently disregard all the rest.
A Nazi………..like Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda.
Crowing…………
There are three times in a mans life when he has every right to crow.
1) When he gets married to the right lady…
2)When he has his first kid……..
3)When the 9ers kick arse after Sebs sees no change-no change whatsoever in 3 yrs-in the way they go about things, or the personnel they have on the team.
Why? We all know why…….
Saw, your hate and intolerance fits the definition of a Nazi. You are projecting your own worst characteristics. Goebbels was also guilty of genocide.
.
KS dialed up a 7 step drop back pass play that resulted in a strip sack fumble. The Falcons were in field goal range. They could have kneeled and stayed in field goal range, but the ‘genius’ dialed up pass plays that resulted in sacks that put them out of field goal range. KS deserves the blame, because Quinn gave him total control over the offensive play calling.
.
I get to crow when I predict that Kyler Murray would be the first pick in the draft. No one else on this site thought that he was going to play football, much less be the first pick.
.
I get to crow when I predicted the exact winning margin for the Warriors in their second final game. Juanhunglo had enough class to give me kudos. You, on the other hand, would never admit that I could ever be right.
.
We all know what you are implying, but I have calmly stated that I am happy with JG being the franchise QB of the 49ers. You think I only want Kaep, and want the Niners to lose because only Kaep is acceptable. You are so wrong. I want the superior QB, especially when Gabbert, Hoyer and CJB are failing as QBs. Even Mullens is acceptable to me, if JG suffers a setback, because Mullens is accurate, and can lead the team to victory.
.
Yes, I have been critical of the Niners. Why? Because I want them to learn from their mistakes and get better. I have seen the changes, and think they have built a solid foundation for success, but also think they have not optimized all of their opportunities. You must think that Foster was a brilliant selection, and they can do no wrong. I think they should not be desperate, and spend precious draft picks to move up and pick busts like RF and JW. Reaching just means they are not being confident, shrewd and patient.
.
Meanwhile, you haunt my posts with your diatribes. You lose when you resort to calling me a Nazi. You add zilch to this site because you cannot generate a cogent thought. Guess your life sucks so much, you only feel good when spewing hate. I truly feel sorry for you.
That’s a huge reach.
No one wrote that he or she assumed Murray would forgo millions to play football.
.
They all mentioned that he was not even on the draft boards, so it was improbable that he would even declare for the draft.
.
They scoffed at the notion that he would be the number one pick, or even the first QB taken. Haskins was a big favorite back then.
.
IICRC, that is what was being said. Of course, it was directly in opposition to what I surmised.
.
But why do you feel the need to Crow all time? It fills a need…what is that need that must be fullfilled? This need to prove that you are right and they are wrong?
And what if you are right and someone else is wrong? Thats bound to happen sometimes….Does it prove your better than they are? So? What of it?
You take yourself-and all of this-waaayy too seriously.
Don’t cry any rivers, Seb–you used to play Prime like a musical instrument, and you enjoyed it greatly.
Saw, I am just a die hard faithful Niner fan. I do not claim to have all the knowledge in the world, and will fully admit when I am wrong.
.
Yes, I do make a lot of predictions, and when one comes true, I get to point that out. Many do not have the personality to stick out their necks and make bold statements, so they are content to just watch. I just see things that could be better, and propose changes that I think will help the Niners win.
.
Glad some one actually said that they monitor these sites. I consider that to be basic competency to gain more info and input from as many sources as possible. The trick is to see whether the information will help them, is just idle speculation, or is it just another screed. The rainbow and unicorn homers are easy to ignore, because they do not say anything of value, and are just fans being fans.
.
Glad you acknowledge that I dominated Prime, but that was easy to do. He kept leading with his chin.
.
I do not take this way too seriously. If I were truly serious, I would flood the Niners with emails, and not bother with posting on this site. Why do I post here? I like Grant’s writing, and think he is like the boy who said the Emperor is wearing no clothes. I can relate to Grant’s point of view, and think his analysis is spot on many times. He tells me what I want to hear. I want the honest assessments, not the puff pieces.
.
I like to write. Does this fulfill me? No, that will only happen when the Niners win another ring.
KS didn’t implode, the Falcons D did.
If KS had called kneel downs, they would have stayed within field goal range. Instead, he called for pass plays that put them out of field goal range.
.
Maybe you were watching a different SB.
Remind me again Sebbie… Who was the Falcons HC, and who coached the Falcons defense during the Super Bowl? And, how many plays were run that evening? How many? I can’t recall. Seems to me there were dozens of Falcons players on the field as well–for all those plays. How many, again?
Many of Shanahan’s passing concepts are WCO. The footwork and timing are more WCO based. In fact much of the footwork used in many NFL offenses is WCO based…which has it’s roots in Sid Gillman’s passing tactics and techniques from the 1960’s.
I think you’re talking about the WCO as a SYSTEM. Almost nobody runs the WCO as a complete system anymore….especially as Walsh ran it. Systems incorporate many things including philosophy, strategy, tactics, planning, communication and more. But like all offensive and defensive systems from the past; modern coaches have pulled apart pieces of these systems and stitched them into current offensive and defensive systems. The degree of which there is WCO, Air Coryell or even the Run and Shoot is going to vary by degrees from offense to offense.
Yes, the WCO was run before 1981, so it, like every scheme, has evolved.
.
The rules have changed, too, and passing is emphasized more. QBs are protected, and they finally have stopped denying that CTE is a future problem.
.
I just look at that plastic laminated play sheet, and assume that was a Bill Walsh, WCO staple.
.
I watched those sweeps by Roger Craig and see those outside zone concepts run by KS.
.
Scripting the first 20 plays? WCO roots.
.
Another signature of the WCO was its implementation, where it was run crisply, quickly, and efficiently.
.
Timing was so important. That is why the 3-5-7 step drops were so detailed and choreographed.
.
It was not over complicated. Some teams would shake their heads at the simplicity of some plays, but the Niners were so effective, it could not be stopped. They practiced plays so many times, they became second nature.
.
Some of the strongest tactics of the WCO, were- exploiting a weakness, targeting a position, and setting up plays with previous plays. They would flood a zone, and Joe would throw to the open receiver.
.
Yes, the WCO reverberates throughout the league. Every team borrows some ideas from it.
.
However, defenses have been devised to counter the WCO, so the new offenses add new wrinkles. Those new wrinkles will be countered, so new schemes will be tried. It is constantly changing and evolving, with strong roots. I see a lot of WCO concepts in KS’s system.
Seb,
If your criteria is what qualifies a team as running the WCO, then every team in the NFL does.
It’s often said, Kylie runs the WCO but he really doesn’t, (Grant wrote a great article on it some time back) some similar concepts are used but that’s overlap.
That said, I am glad to see that they are honoring their past rather than shunning it, as they have done somewhat in the past. It’s nice to see some of the overlapping concepts from the glory days.
Shoup, I agree. I am glad they are running an offense with WCO roots. I certainly never called the JH offense a WCO- styled system.
The funny thing is, Harbaugh actually said he ran the WCO, or at least a Hybrid version of it.
But no matter what he said, his offense didn’t remind me of the WCO at all.
Yes, it was way more like the Bo Schembechler, 3 yards and a cloud of dust- styled offense, to me. IMHO, Roman seemed to be the weak ink.
.
That is why I was so hopeful for Chip Kelly. I thought he may have been innovative enough to go back towards the WCO roots. Too bad his defense gave up 200 yards rushing to third string RBs.
.
I just look at them rolling out the QB in practices, and think of Joe Montana and Steve Young.
“I don’t run the freaking West Coast Offense,” Shanahan explained, except he didn’t use the word, “freaking.” He used a different word we can’t print.
—————————
The man himself has even said it but we’ll let the mmqb’s continue explaining to the rest of us unenlightened how he does run it.
KS also said he does not need an OC, yet went 10-22 these past 2 seasons.
.
Glad he admitted he should have won 3 more games last season. He just admitted his freakin’ incompetency/ weakness/ failure.
KS ego is getting in the way….you are right Sebbie
– you are right –
Don’t you get a warning tingle, some sort of hesitation, when you type that to Seb?
No? Nothing?
Pity.
No, KS may need to eat some humble pie, but I am rolling with him as HC. I just want him to get better.
.
If KS gets upset what a poster says, imagine what an opposing HC will do to him.
.
I do think KS is clever, and has devised a system that can move the ball. However, his game management, red zone efficiency, and ability to finish games, needs improvement.
.
Also, by concentrating on being the OC, he is neglecting the defense and STs.
.
Posters on this site cannot explain how having an OC would hurt the team, especially a 10-22 team.
.
I just wish he would give a damn.
McVay served as his own OC in ’18. Would the Rams have gone 16 and 0, and won the SB if he had an OC? Guaranteed?
Bah, did you watch the SB? Sean McVay needed an OC so bad, he looked like a noob. Belichick schooled him.
.
An OC would have helped him score more than 3 points.
.
Interesting. Belichick is smart enough to have an OC, and won his 6th SB.
.
Yes, he did not have a DC, but Brian Flores called the defensive plays, and did so well, he parlayed his LB coaching job into a Head Coaching gig.
You’re seriously beyond ignorant.
You’re so damn stuck on a the title of his coaching staff members…”Oh he needs an OC”, not realizing he has a Passing Coordinator, a Running Coordinator, multiple offensive assistants, and a assistant head coach.
KS was hired for his playcalling, for his schemes. If he’s not calling plays, WTF did they hire him??
What is the big deal about having an OC? How will having an OC hurt the team? Remember, KS is 10-22, so he should be accepting all the help he can get. An OC may help him with his red zone woes. An OC may help KS finish games correctly.
.
Yes, he does have those coaches, but an OC concentrates on putting all aspects of the offense together. How does the passing game coordinator, and running game coordinator deal with a play action? Do they hand off duties mid play?
.
Believe it or not, but many HCs call their own plays, and still have an OC.
.
What is beyond ignorant, is blithely stating he does not need an OC, when they went 4-12 last season.
An OC is not a fix all for wins.
He is the OC. He calls the plays. He gameplans. He lets the defense do their thing and he handles the offense.
Get over it. You sound like a broken, incorrect, record.
Typical Seb…goes completely off the wall on a topic when EVERYONE else says otherwise (like Kaep and trading Mullens).
You still think RBs should fall down?
I am not a sheep, like you in the peanut gallery.
.
I march to the beat of a different drummer, and am proud of my independence.
.
I also was a big advocate for trading back, when previously, posters thought it was impossible.
.
With great satisfaction, I saw 47 trade backs in this last draft. The Niners also traded back, and even bundled a player and a pick, to move up in the draft.
.
Still have not seen a cogent response outlining how having an OC will hurt the team, especially a 4-12 team.
.
Yes, I think RBs should not struggle to stay upright, fighting for an inch, while the defenders gang tackle him, hold him up and strip the ball away.
WTF did you just say?
You say you were vocal for trading back and it happened 47 times in the last draft?
Um hello, McFly…teams have been trading back since the start of the draft. This isn’t some new concept that you unearthed.
Jesus you are fully of yourself, which is sad since theres not really much to be full of.
You haven’t provided any response as to how an OC will help the team.
My response is that KS is the HC & OC. Full stop. Move on.
Biff, maybe you did not know this, but there have been many drafts where the teams all picked at their assigned spots.
.
Trader Bill changed all that, and Mayock copied the BW strategy last draft in the second round. He traded back multiple times and still got the player he coveted.
.
How about this- Bill Belichick thought he needed an OC, and McDaniels adjustments in the 4th quarter helped him win a Super Bowl. McVay thought he did not need an OC, scored only 3 points, and lost, because Belichick schooled him.
Okay Seb, please show me a draft where every team picked at every single spot and there were ZERO trades up or trades back.
I’ll even give you prior to the modern era, prior to the Super Bowl era. Show us one draft where zero trades happened (excluding drafts where trades were not allowed, if such rules ever existed).
And since you said there were many, I expect more than one example.
I’ll wait.
BTW, in 2018 there were 38 trades. So you pontificated that something that happened the previous year 38 times was some amazing jedi mind trick that only you were knowledgeable of…that you somehow turned water into wine, iron into gold, and you had the secret to draft day success.
BTW…Bill Belichick is a DEFENSIVE coach. OF COURSE he’d have a OC, he’s not an offensive guy :
As coach:
Baltimore Colts (1975) Special assistant
Detroit Lions (1976) Assistant special teams coach
Detroit Lions (1977) Receivers coach
Denver Broncos (1978) Assistant special teams coach & defensive assistant
New York Giants (1979) Special teams coach & defensive assistant
New York Giants (1980–1984) Linebackers coach & special teams coach
New York Giants (1985–1990) Defensive coordinator
Cleveland Browns (1991–1995) Head coach
New England Patriots (1996) Assistant head coach & defensive backs coach
New York Jets (1997–1999) Assistant head coach & defensive coordinator
New England Patriots (2000–present) Head coach
Outside of his one stint as a receivers coach for the 1977 Detroit Lions (6-8 record) where his best receiver had 300 yards and 1 TD, he’s never been any type of offensive coach.
Great example.
Sebbie… Off your meds? Again?
Dang, ya got me. I did not bother to research the drafts, and yes, there were some trade backs in previous years. Of course, I surmise there were not too many drafts with over 47 trade backs. I just researched the 1966 NFL draft, and there were no trade backs. There were many trades for players, though. In 1976, there were 9 trade backs, but 78 trades for players. Of course, back then, there were almost 500 draft picks, with 17 rounds.
.
However, there is a trend to have more trade backs, and 2018 is a good example. Even in 2017, the Niners made 6 trades themselves. I have been advocating the trade back strategy for years, because I liked the results from the 1986 Niner draft.
.
Belichick? He is a defensive coach, so he must have an OC? Wrong. In 2005, 2009 and 2010, he had no OC. Usually, that was because his OC was hired as a HC for another team, and he did not fill that position. So Belichick has gone without an OC or DC at times, but he also has won 6 rings, so he can do what he wants. KS has won nothing, and needs all the help he can get.
2005 Pats OC was Josh McDaniels.
2009 & 2010 may not have had a person titled “OC”, but the guy calling the plays and running the offense was Bill O’Brien. He called all the plays and ran the offense. He did this for a bit when Josh McDaniels was there, and when McDaniels left for Denver, O’Brien took over that responsibility. It was his offense, he worked with TB directly. So much so that in 2011 he was officially titled as OC, and that success (basically the 2nd/3rd best offense in 2011) catapulted him to the Penn State HC job, which then took him to the HC job with the Texans.
It’s hilarious again seeing you die on another one of these hills.
Since BB became the HC of the Pats, he’s had Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniels and Bill O’Brien as his offensive OC’s. Thats their part of the team. BB for ALL of his success doesn’t run the offense, he’s with the defense.
Just like Walsh was the offensive coach and didn’t touch the defense, that was Seif’s baby.
Yes, the title was not conferred, just like Flores was only the LB coach, but called the defensive plays.
.
Thanks for proving my point. Belichick is smart enough to delegate authority, and concentrate on being the HC.
.
KS wants to be the OC, more than be the HC.
.
You still have not provided a cogent argument why having an OC will hurt the team. Many HCs have called the offensive plays, but still have an OC.
.
The only reason I can see, is it might hurt KS’s feelings. After this last 4-12 season, KS needs to eat some humble pie. KS should read about what BW said about arrogance and hubris, compared to confidence.
.
I do not give a damn about hurting his feelings, I just want him to have all the help he needs to win.
He doesn’t run the WCO SYSTEM. But he does run WCO PASSING CONCEPTS.
Does he ideally use short horizontal passes that set up the run? No. He uses the a specific run offensive system to set up much of his passing game. But many of the passes that are not play action are WCO passing concept staples (like variations on Y Stick for example). On many of the concepts you’ll see the Walsh/WCO triangle ( often two receivers running a man beater or a high zone stretch route and a receiver/back in the flats).
So no the Shanahan’s offense is not the WCO SYSTEM. But the the route concepts, the preparation, the focus on personnel mismatches (how do you think Rice ended up being covered by so many slow linebackers and safeties?)….all are important PARTS of the WCO offense. Even the nomenclature Shanahan uses in his offense is (unfortunately) Paul Brown/WCO terminology.
I will concede that the classic WCO is not used anymore, because the game has evolved over 30 years. But like you said, the basic concepts are here to stay.
.
However, if KS wants to devise a whole new system, he should not be using the FB like he does. He should do a lot more 11 personnel.
.
Then, the defenses will adjust, and stymie KS’s system, so he will need to change and add new wrinkles, which is exactly what Bill Walsh’s WCO was good at. Adapt, adjust and innovate, staying a step ahead of the competition.
.
Believe it or not, Parcells used the term- WCO to disparage Bill Walsh’s system, then after 5 Super Bowls, everyone copied it.
.
I just do not know why KS is denying his roots. He is an offshoot from the BW coaching tree.
Why do you want Shanahan to use more 11 personnel? You lose a blocker and a gap.
Shanahan’s offensive system was originally an adaptation (by Mike Shanahan) of Walsh’s (actually Holmgren’s) offense.
Parcells confused the term. Before his comment the “West Coast Offense” was used to describe San Diego’s offense which is better known as “Air Coryell”.
Shanahan isn’t denying anything. He’s staying true to his family’s branch of the Walsh tree. Walsh used a fullback. Walsh did not like telegraphing his run/pass intentions. In that regard, Shanahan is very much in the spirit of Bill Walsh and his offense. Walsh was also a big proponent of play action passes which is the key ingredient to Shanhan’s offense.
Exactly. Bill Walsh’s WCO used the 21 personnel, with a FB. If KS wants to move on from the WCO, he should use the 11 personnel. More of a run and shoot offense. KS thinks his offense is nothing like the WCO, but I see tons of similarities.
“If KS wants to move on from the WCO, he should use the 11 personnel.”
I don’t understand this… he doesn’t need or have to run away from an offense he doesn’t run.
He runs his own offense that has specific hallmarks… play action pass, outside/ inside zone runs, his passing game is typically deep to short, and he incorporates a lot of power I formations. At its core its a big play offense.
The original WCO almost never used the I formation (preferring the pro-set), ran a gap blocking schemes featuring draws and sweeps, its passing game was short to long. and was meant to spread the defense horizontally. At its core its a ball control offense.
Did you just read about what BW said about the Play-pass?
.
The Outside Zone runs just remind me of the sweeps Roger Craig used to run, and the Inside Zone runs like the off tackle plays Wendell Tyler used to run.
.
I see the misdirections and targeting a defender, along with the utilization of a FB.
.
However, I do see differences. KS puts a man in motion, then makes him stop and get set, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of putting a man in motion.
.
Bill Walsh never had the Red Zone ineptitude. He ran an offense that had crisp quick efficient plays, and refrained from shooting himself in the foot. He made astute assessments, and could make timely adjustments. With The Catch and The Drive, BW knew how to finish games.
.
KS may like the I formation, but using it with lightweight RBs just led to injuries. Breida, Mostert and Wilson all weigh less than 200 lbs.
.
Interesting. The WCO was predicated on the short pass, moving the sticks, keeping the ball, which looks like KS’s offense between the 20’s. JG was never known as a deep ball passer, and now you want him to emulate the old Raiders offense.
.
Joe would deliver the ball on time, and hit his receiver in stride, so there would be yards gained after the catch. Sounds like KS is strategizing the same thing with Kittle. Throwing on first down? BW made that option a staple of his offense, and KS is a copycat.
.
Yes, I can watch the old clips of the Niners playing offense, and yearn for a return to relevance.
“The Outside Zone runs just remind me of the sweeps Roger Craig used to run, and the Inside Zone runs like the off tackle plays Wendell Tyler used to run.”
So you basically believe there 2 running plays, inside and outside? That explains a lot.
As to the misdirections part, that is in every NFL offense and was in them predating Walsh.
As to the man in motion, red zone efficiency, hurt rbs, and jimmys deepball issues… none of that makes it a WCO and they are different conversations.
You were the one mentioning outside/inside zone runs, I was just commenting on what you stressed. Maybe you are the one claiming there are only 2 types of run plays.
.
Yes, every play has been thought of before BW, so KS is not creating something new, too.
.
Like AFFP said. The classic WCO is not run today, but the concepts are timeless. KS carries a laminated play sheet on the side lines. Guess who first did that? Scripting the first 20 plays? BW was on the leading edge with that strategy. Play terminology? KS’s is way more complicated, but that may not be a good thing. Keeping it simpler may allow the offense to play faster.
.
I brought up those issues, to show the disparity between the 2 systems. One system brought 5 rings, one system imploded in the SB.
Let’s be fair here: The ancestor of Kyle’s offense won a Super Bowl with the 49ers in 94.
The first version of the Shanahan offense won 2 Super Bowls with the Broncos in the late 90’s.
The old 94 Forty-Niner’s playbook is available online. It’s interesting to compare it to the current offense. Mike Shanahan basically kept much of the WCO but cut the QB reads in half with lots more use of bootleg roll outs for Young. In some ways I feel like that offense was the best balanced offense of the Shanahan tree of offenses. The reason was because while Mike still wanted to use lots of running, movement and misdirection to get receivers open. Lots of play action..etc…. when he needed to he could lean hard on more of the classic WCO passing game which had been drilled into Young and the receivers by Walsh and Holmgren.
Hmm, maybe KS should hire Mike as his OC. Sounds like he knows KS’s system very well. ;p
It makes me think that Shanahan may want to consider a passing game coordinator that comes from outside of his offensive scheme but who’s scheme compliments it.
Good call.
.
Day may be a good option, then make LaFleur the QB coach.
Grant…
Wonder how Jimmy’s QB guru (House) feels about Montana’s footwork…?
I just want to win…..
good stuff..
Lynch says Kyle Shanahan has challenged Jimmy Garoppolo from the neck up while recovering from his ACL tear and has brought in his father — and two-time Super Bowl-winning head coach — Mike, to tutor him
IMO drop steps are really tied to what the QB is comfortable doing. As long as QBs end up in the right place at the right time without complications then QB’s should use the drop step they are comfortable using. If you really want to see some crazy technique go back and watch the ’81 Championship Game against the Cowboys. From what I can tell, at every level in football for at least the past 50 years, most QB’s use a reverse pivot to pitch the ball to the RB. So for instance, if the QB is pitching to an outside run to the offenses left the QB’s first step is back with his right foot where he spins 180 degrees and pitches to the RB. The reverse pivot allows the QB to get the proper momentum and more accurate pitches. Montana used the reverse pivot on pitch plays. Danny White with the Cowboys used an open pivot to pitch the ball to Tony Dorsett. So for a pitch to the left, White’s first step was to his left. You don’t really notice it unless you’ve played QB or tried to use the open pivot. White made it look so easy and effortless but It’s not easy to do accurately at game speed, especially for young players. When you try to teach an Open pivot to a QB it’s very difficult to get right and it’s very frustrating for the player.
I think the difference in how they’re opening up is based on the coaches scheme for the play, and also their preferred method of teaching.
Having done both style, it was definitely easier for me at least to do the spin instead of just opening up to it.
The other difference was I think White almost always did the backpedal from under center instead of opening up and dropping back like Montana did. Rarely see that anymore.
In your experience, how important was using footwork as a timing mechanism for passing? Steve Young has talked at length in the past about using footwork as a metronome for passing. Is it that difficult or different for a QB to learn who is used to standing back in the shotgun and was dependent on I guess an internal clock for timing passes? It was supposed to be an advantage for Beathard to have played under center in college. But I guess that depends on how well he synched his footwork and timing together?
Footwork plays a very big part of throwing accurately, but it needs to be tied together with the upper body.
I never played out of the shotgun so I can’t speak to it from personal experience.
As a coach I barely dabbled with the shotgun, and the only reason for doing that was because we had a terrific athlete at QB. By putting him in the gun we were basically running a wildcat scheme because it gave us an extra blocker for his rushes.
Houston might have some better insights on that one.
I was wondering about footwork more in terms of timing than body mechanics.
From your time dropping back; how coordinated were your footsteps with the passing plays? How well did you coordinate your QB’s footwork…even your athletic running QB? I also remember Steve Young saying that as long as Kaepernick was being used for his mobility or was using his mobility that it was ruining his ability to develop good footwork and timing.
From my experience footwork is not specifically coached as a timing mechanism. The timing comes naturally as a byproduct of repetition between a QB and WR. For example, on a slant with a 3 step drop from under center QB’s usually take 1 big step and then 2 smaller steps. As soon as the back foot hits the ground the qb is lining up his throw to a specific spot. It’s like dancing where the rhythm and timing develops with the beat of the music but the steps are always the same. You teach QB’s how to take a 3 step drop and then the rhythm with the slant route just develops naturally. Really a throw from shotgun is not all that different. QB catches the ball and aligns his body to make the throw. The slant from shotgun might be a 1 step slant while the slant route when the QB is under center may be a 3-5 step slant route. I don’t think it’s really the timing that is a difficult transition for shotgun QB’s to learn to take snaps from under center. All QBs are used to developing timing in their throws. The difficult transition is related to concentrating on a clean exchange, then learning to read a defense while they are also trying to make sure the steps in their drop and their footwork is precise, and then making the throw. The mechanics of a drop back are much more complex than just catching a shotgun snap. Just the part of learning to take a snap from center requires a ton of practice to master it and that’s only one component of what it takes to play under center.
Thanks for the insight Houston.
Another comment by Young is “your feet tell you where to throw”.
That’s because of what I wrote about earlier. Everything in football starts with the feet and works up from there.
That’s why it’s called football, at least that’s what the oline coach from my college days used to say.
If I recall, you started off as an O-lineman.
They should have changed the name in 1904 when they legalized the forward pass or in the 30’s when the allowed the QB more than just a 5 yard area behind the line of scrimmage.
I mean, I can’t stand calling soccer “football”. But just from a game play logic standpoint, calling American “Grid Iron” football “football” seems pretty stupid.
Three or four times out of the year, Grant Cohn writes a bloody brilliant article that liberates his journalistic side by constraining his proclivity to write hit pieces.
It’s heartening to know that Jimmy and the gang appreciate the greatest to ever play the position, and mimic Joe Montana. Thoroughly enjoyable read mate….
Dude are you Australian or something?
Grant is generally smarter and has more insight than is reflected by some of the articles he writes. I believe that is because those hit pieces do not reflect his own opinions, but rather the wishes of his bosses.
I’m pretty sure that Grant doesn’t write anything that he doesn’t feel is accurate.
This is a nice feel good article, well written and it’s heartwarming to any who harken back to the glory days.
That said, I hope it helps. If almost everyone has gone away from it I have to wonder why?
Jimmy G addressed your concerns in his remarks about Brady. Understanding the weaknesses of any technique is the key.
If almost everyone has gone away from it I have to wonder why?
90% of the qb’s coming out today have terrible mechanics and footwork because the style of offense they’re running is not predicated as much on precision as it is athleticism. Therefore, it would be an effort in futility to ask one of them to attempt that transformation at the NFL level. Nowadays they just adapt their offense around the skillset of the qb’s coming out. Like we were talking about yesterday, one of the reasons Shanny was so high on Beathard was he possessed the best footwork/mechanics of any qb in that draft….
Good stuff. It’s true in my area. 99% of high schools and even the middle schools are running spread offenses where the QB never goes under center. You even see spread systems used in youth football. Many QBs live their entire lives never even learning to take a snap from center.
It’s like centers and power-forwards never learning to play with their back to the basket.
Razor,
I definitely agree that it’s a lost art… but even Brady used it but migrated away from it.
It’s not that I disagree with it, I just wonder why it’s been migrated away from in the NFL?
By eliminating the first step are they actually getting back faster? Did Joe ever alter his first step ? If not was it necessary? If so what are the advantages?
If these guys can play 2% of Montana’s ability then we have something
“Montana doesn’t even make it into my top 5 QBs in the modern era” -David Carr
I give Brady his due, but Montana and Brady are my top two.
Mullins ability to make quick decisions sort of mirrors Montana’s strengths. Montana did not have much of an arm either. In the right system you certainly can be successful with a QB like Mullins.
But Montana DID have an NFL arm-he could make all the throws. You don’t have to throw it as hard as Elway did.
Carr blindly hates on the 49ers because he wants to be endearing to the troglodyte Raider fans. He’s too immature and dumb to understand that his comments only diminish him and not his subject.
++++ Exactly!!!
But it does bring up an interesting point, what are the top 5 QBs?
Mine:
5) Otto Graham – he won more than anyone else did back before passing was a thing.
4) Tarkenton – heck of a player. Worth looking into.
3) Brady – I think that as great as Brady is, Unitas and Montana are better.
2) Unitas-he was the greatest until the 80s rolled around. Eras matter!
1) Montana-I can’t think of a better QB behind center if the game is on the line.
49ers:
5) Garcia – he was a warrior who had the bad luck of following Young and Montana. Was a very solid player and knew how to win.
4) Tittle – greatest years were with Giants, but was still great 49er.
3) John Brodie – back before the team was relevant, he was…
2) Young – one of the greatest ever (top 10). Just had to follow JM.
1) Montana – Who else?
Who do you think?
I would put Bart Starr, Peyton, Favre, Marino, Brees and Elway over Tarkenton.
I could make an argument for Starr and possibly Marino, but not the others. I see them as second tier.
I will concede Favre, Brees and Elway may be slightly below Tarkenton, but Peyton Manning is more accomplished.
.
Manning- 14 time Pro Bowler, 7 time All Pro, 5 time league MVP, 2 time SB winner, 539 TDs, 55 TDs in one season,71,940 yards passing, 96.5 passer rating.
.
Tarkenton- 9 time Pro Bowler, one All Pro, one league MVP, 342 TDs, 47,003 yards passing, 80.4 passer rating.
.
Tarkenton ran for 32 TDs, but PM ran for 18, and Elway ran for 33.
Pass happy era vs. run 1st. I like Peyton and the others but I don’t think they were better than Young (except maybe Manning). And Tark is better than Young.
It is hard to compare different eras. Otto Graham was before my time. I just started to get interested when Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas played.
.
Fran Tarkenton was amazing, playing he did with reckless abandon. I could see why you like him.
.
He was the precursor of the mobile QB. I agree with you. Steve Young, while being elite, just did not have as long a career, due to the fact he struggled in TB and sat behind JM for years.
And I think in terms of football smarts, Young was better than Favre. Elway was always overrated and won late in his career after being athletic but I would say Young was a better QB than Elway. As good as Brees and for that matter that kid in Green Bay are, I would take Young over them any day.
Young, as good as he was, wasn’t a better football player than Tarkenton. He was a player that helped pave the way for others that would follow.
Graham, while he doesn’t have the dizzying stats of many modern players set up his team to win (as did Starr, by the way, I would put him in 6th or 7th place with Young right there), and win they did.
6) Starr
7) Young
8) Manning
9) Rogers
10) Simms
Only 25 unsigned draft picks…
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/14/only-25-unsigned-draft-picks-left-league-wide/
A) LY how many sacks were caused by an ol stepping on the QB’s foot?
B) LY how many plays was the QB under center?
Do the math should tell how many sacks the OL didn’t have to give up ly
Maybe 4-5 more positive plays and maybe an extra couple wins in close games
OT, but Pat Bowlen passed away.
.
RIP.
Interesting read…if one can get past Rams hate. Very well written.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2757224?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
“You are Jeff Fisher, and if you listen to a few minutes of sports talk radio, you will hear opinions—even from people you have been friendly with for 40 years—about how great it is that you are out of work.
That’s OK; you have an office to pack up. Two days ago, Rams CEO Kevin Demoff gave you the bad news: You were done. You asked for a little time to get your things together, and it was granted.”
Brilliant article…thanks for sharing! Gives an entirely new perspective on Jeff Fisher.
Issues with Montana’s shoulder surgery…
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/126034-montana-dealing-shoulder-surgery-complications-pettis-greatest-quarterback/
Video on the Shanahan offense, with a focus on Kittle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojkifD9G60
Interesting. Gaine was fired from the Texans GM job because he was supposedly purging black employees.
.
Considering the league is 72% Black, this does not look good.
.
Texans have dropped their pursuit of Caserio, so the Pats have dropped their tampering suit.
.
Maybe Martin Mayhew would be a good candidate for the job, to dispel the notion that the Texans are racists. Of course, Bob McNair did not want the inmates running the prison, so they already have a cross to bear.
Patty Mahomes, “My footwork,” Mahomes said. “I make a lot of off-scheduled plays, scrambling around and throwing the ball, but there’s so many little plays that I’ll miss, ’cause my feet aren’t in the right position and I rely too much on my arm.”
It’s too late baby now, it’s too late.
I’ve always felt the talking heads have been too quick to declare him the next great QB. You can’t survive in this league with arm alone.
Tell that to Brett Favre. Mahomes is a unique talent. Think Russell Wilson but bigger and stronger. The midget seemed to carve out a HOF career.
They do that to a lot of people. Usually starts before they are even drafted: Vince Young, Mariota, Kap, Manziel, Newton, Jeff George…
The list is long!
The great ones are usually downplayed until they prove beyond doubt how good they are (Rogers, Brees, Wilson).
Okay…. Let’s kick this anthill….
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/126044-florio-speculates-49ers-could-trade-cousins-jimmy-garoppolo/
Happy Father’s day to all the dad’s on here.
Have a great day.
HFD.
Back atcha my internet friend!
Maybe Gaine was purging employees who were deficient and happened to be Black?
In any case, O’Brien got what he wanted, which is Bellichik like autonomy.
Any coach that would start Tom Savage over Watson and defend the choice should not be given player personnel power as well.
I think it was a combination. However, they Texans were aware of Pope’s complaint, days before Gaine was fired.
.
Gaine really messed up in the draft, letting the Eagles swoop in and poach their original pick they coveted. Gaine then compounded his error by reaching at 23, a 50th ranked O lineman, when several superior choices were available.
.
I agree, Bill O’Brian has under achieved. Savage was like the Niners signing Hoyer. I wonder what Watson thinks about the FO purging its black employees. In my book, that would not build loyalty. Maybe he wanted to purge the Black players, too.
Seb,
Complaints are a dime a dozen. Real ones bear merit and attention, others in a time of shrill, virtue signals are simply justifications of victimization. Jussie Smollet? We have to be careful with our trip wire assumptions.
Not saying that Gaine didn’t target, but we also don’t know if it was merely someone or a few someones that were not doing their gig and he wanted them out.
I agree on the draft, but teams do get swooped by Howie Roseman. Last year he moved up ahead of the Cowboys to snag Dallas Goeddert. This year it was Dillard.
Roseman must have it out for Texas.
The Texans went for the big upside reach. Who knows, maybe it will work?
O’Brien may have wanted Caserio, but O’Brien also wanted Rick Smith out. Given that Caserio had a no transfer clause, maybe O’Brien set it up that way and got what he wanted; total control.
Captain, I agree. O’Brien may have wanted more control, but now, there is nobody to blame but him, if things go south.
.
Getting back to the firing, I thought it was strange to have an 11-5 playoff team, fire their GM,and thought it would take more than just a poor draft to do it. My opinion is that their were at least 5 better options at O line than Howard, but did not know that was a fire-able offense.
.
Maybe it was a power play by the HC, but I think it was an accumulation of mis-steps and events.
Maybe Fisher could come back to Niners and be their DC. He’d be great in that role, and I think could really help Kyle.
A look across the league–potential veteran cuts…
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26941405/veterans-cut-the-nfl-32-teams#sf
Sebbie–think of all the possible gut-spilling to be had.
I hope the Niners trade away some bubble players to gain more draft picks and create a couple vacancies, and fill them with players from playoff teams like the Patriots. They should poach a 53 cut player from Seattle on general principle, to gain intel.
I don’t think intel from the Pats is all that valuable since they change their schemes on a weekly basis–or so it seems. The braintrust that leaves doesn’t always pan out either. Captain Sominex is a crafty one.
I think JG and Wes Welker already give tons of intel on the inner workings of the Pats, so intel is not too important from the Pats. I think it is more important to obtain a player who Bill Belichick thinks can play in the NFL, especially if he upgrades a position that is weak on the Niners.
.
Cassius Marsh will give intel to the Seahawks, but fortunately, Kocurek and Woods will be devising new strategies and terminology. A player from the Rams may also be smart, since the Niners play them twice next season. It may also weaken their opponent.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/126050-49ers-o-line-considers-joshua-garnett-legitimate-contender-starting/
I’m hoping Garnett will turn into a gem.
I hope they make the O line become more versatile, so players can master multiple positions.
.
I hope they let Garnett play at LG, his natural position, and move Tomlinson to RG.
.
Wonder if any of the Free Agent signings will make the team.
I’ve got a source inside the organization telling me, Alex Brown might be that F/A.
Ben Garland may also be a good candidate to make the 53. He is number 2 on the depth chart.
Caution Sebbie… As you have drilled home time and time again…. Do not play players out of position.
“…so players can master multiple positions.”
Care to qualify?
I did not want the Niners to move McGlinchey to RG, a position he has never played before. The Niners did that.
.
Bill Belichick moved around his players on the O line, so they were more versatile, and could seamlessly adjust if there was an injury.
.
Garnett won the Outland trophy while playing at LG, his natural position. Tomlinson played RG in college, so he should be able to switch sides without a problem.
I get it. Moving players around position-wise is okay, until it isn’t…..in your eyes. Good.
No, being flexible and versatile may make adjustments smooth when attrition and adversity hits.
.
Maybe Tomlinson was not in his best position to succeed, considering how he struggled last season.
.
Being rigid and inflexible is a recipe for failure.
Perhaps Garnett could finally put it together this season.
He has shown the ability to play well when he’s been healthy, but those moments have been few and far in between.
On another player. I hear that Trent Taylor has looked good in mini camp. When he is healthy he is a ball’r who plays with the heart of a Lion.
Having Wes Welker on the team should also improve Taylor’s play.
Biggest hurdle is staying healthy.
Taylor’s lack of versatility is what makes his roster spot tenuous, in my view. I’d love him to be that 3rd down machine again though….
And I’m hoping my hair will grow back.
?
Taylor can help as a punt returner if the need arises. Richie James showed a little flash last year but he didn’t show enough imo.
If Taylor can stay healthy (beginning w/TC) he will solidify his status as starter. James will need to be lights out in TC to supplant Trent.
I see James fighting hard to stay on the roster this year.
At the moment, I trust Taylor in the lineup more than James.
And wait! There’s more! Cousins to SF….
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/126053-florio-doubles-cousins-to-49ers-speculation-simms-cousins-talented-garoppolo/
Any comment Grant?
Captain Kirk has peaked, and Jimmy G has so much upside. The only way I see Shanny moving on from him is if he just totally stinks up the joint, and after what he was able to do with BDN; I don’t see how that’s possible. Now I could definitely see the Rams trading off Goff for Cousins, because Goff is who we thought he was. Good with a clean pocket, and bad with pressure in his face….
Florio thinks JG will suck this season. I think Florio is regressing in his football player assessments.
.
Florio also thinks Cousins will suck next season, so why would the Niners want him?
.
I think the more probable take on this situation is- Florio is becoming irrelevant, so he wants to stir up controversy as clickbait material.
.
Florio thinks Cousins is more talented than JG? His player assessment skills are really regressing.
.
Florio thinks that KS really likes Cousins, but that is not going to happen. I really like Kaep, but realize that will not happen, either. Jimmy Garoppolo is the 49er franchise QB, and speculating that he will be traded away is just dissing JG, and makes me question Florio’s motives.
Sebbie…
Florio is a sports media type who can be controversial at times–same is true for Grant, no? Please differentiate Florio from Grant. How can a discerning fan tell them apart?
Go ahead and tell me what you think.
You’re one who calls out Florio, yet leave Grant unsullied. Curious how you differentiate between them.
Have your cup ‘o joe this morning while looking out over your 2.5 acres?
I have disagreed with Grant many times.
,
I watched 2 Bambies munching on my astroelmerias this morning, and when I went to shoo them away from my back door, I kicked a dead gopher my cat so kindly left on my back step. At least she did not bring it into the house.
Hey Razor,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you live in Indiana?
Correct, Leo.
Cool. My family and I have a possible relocation opportunity in Northern Indiana.
How do you like it out there?
I grew up here. Not the most exciting place to live, but it’s centrally located. Couple hours drive to Chicago, 3 to Cedar Point, and 16 to Florida.☀ You get four seasons, which I enjoy. Summer’s are short. Gets humid and hot. Lots of lakes, Silver Beach in Michigan is 40 minutes away, and then you’ve got the Indiana Dunes about the same distance. Notre Dame stadium is about a 20 minute ride from my house. Cost of living is low. I can think of lots of better places to live, but it’s my home. Hope that helps….
Ok nice. I’ve been in southern California my whole life. Just tired of the politics, taxes, and over population.
We would like to own a decent sized lot and see a lot more green than we do now (trees and money). The company is in Warsaw, you familiar with the area?
Info on Warsaw, IN…
http://www.city-data.com/city/Warsaw-Indiana.html
https://www.areavibes.com/warsaw-in/crime/
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Warsaw-Indiana.html
Yep, Warsaw is about an hour south of me. Small town, nice area and some good fishing. You’ll be able to get a lot of acreage and a small mansion for what you were paying out there!
Ok thanks Razor. What about the winters? I’m hearing they’re pretty mild, but is that true up north too?
Yea, we don’t get the amount of snow that we used to when I was a kid but it does get cold, especially with the wind chill. If you’re not used to it, it could be a lengthy adjustment. You can get a lot of lake effect snow where I am, 5 minutes south of the Michigan border, by the Elkhart Airport. Been a long time since we’ve had enough snow to justify owning a snowmobile. If you’re a skier, they’ve got Swiss Valley thats about a 45 minute drive into Michigan. It’s no Heavenly or Squaw Valley though, but it’s adequate….
Over the top….
Most of us have heard of field guides–field guides for birds, trees, rocks and minerals, etc. Some enterprising soul should assemble and maintain a field guide covering people in sports media–journalists, talking heads, commentators/opinionists, bloggers, influencers, etc.
Come up with a scheme to classify them, then describe their characteristics using an array of media-related approaches, styles, and behaviors. Develop a way to calculate truthfulness, accuracy, and accountability. Where possible, discover and show their top 5 fails and top 5 ‘nailed its’. Include signature quotes.
Web-enable the field guide and update it quarterly.
The Kirk rumors are back. Now I don’t have the connections or the media access as the people who are saying these things about Kirk and JG. However it can not be ignored. When the 49ers traded for JG their thought was and John Lynch even said this was to use JG as trade bait the following season but they seen how he played and give him a big contract. Shanny must of thought he could play in his system (i would hope so) instead of just giving him a big contract so they don’t lose a QB. Now people went crazy because JG won 5 games in a row and thought he was the next big thing when he only has played in 17 games with 2 starts prior to getting traded to 49ers and got injured before as well.
Why people think JG has a higher ceiling than Kirk as of right now is beyond me. Is it because he has not played in a full 16 games and nobody knows how he will do yet or is it because he came from the Pats that people think he will be great or is it because he won 5 games in a row in a losing season. He played in 3 games last year and was 1-2 in those games. Kirk has played in 16 games in 4 seasons out of 7 years in the league and his first 3 seasons he was the backup who played in a few games but led his team to winning 8 or more games 3 out of 4 years and being in the top ten in passing with not to many great players around him. It wouldn’t be fair to say that Kirk couldn’t thrive in Shannys offense since he has already played in it before. So why do people hate the fact of Kirk playing in SF.
If JG plays in a full 16 games and the team only wins 3,4,5 games and their is no major injuries what will people say then about JG. Kirk will probably not win the SB and Im not saying he would but as of right now he is the better passer. If Shanny is really in charge or has a big say in getting players, and he sees JG struggle why not get a QB who he thinks can win or would you wait a few more years to see if JG can develop. If that’s the case they would of drafted a QB in 2017. If the Vikings said trade JG for Kirk im sure Shanny would. The vikings would be eating lots of cap but not to worried about their team. And if they didn’t want JG the 49ers could trade him to somebody else.
Its not like Kirk is a losing QB or a bad passer. Im not sure how he is as a teammate but he does win games and knows the offense. The coach also likes him. Yes he has been to a SB or been the best QB inf the NFL but hes no bust player
***correction to my note Kirk has not been to a SB or been the best QB in the NFL but hes no bust player****
Cousins did not cover himself in glory last season, and the Vikings went from the NFCC Game to out of the playoffs.
.
Zimmer would have to be brain dead to trade for JG, who is just coming off an ACL injury, and does not have a stellar injury history. Zimmer is way too smart to do that.
.
No franchise QB wants the peanut gallery to be speculating about him being traded away. That just means the FO and coaches are treating him like a piece of meat, and not an integral part of the team.
.
I like JG so much, I am not advocating for the Niners to sign Kaep. However, if JG does go down with a bum knee, something that I hope and pray does not happen, I would rather they sign Kaep, than trade for Cousins.
Any advice you have for Jimmy’s QB guru, Tom House?
Yes, treat Baalke like something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe.
If all four qb currently on the roster go down to season ending injuries, the Niners ARE STILL NOT BRINGING BACK KAEP. Period. STHU
Yup, they would rather lose without him, than win with him.
By your criteria Sebbie…every owner, GM, and HC in the league is content with losing by not having Kaep on their roster. Sad, no one in the NFL wants to win.
No, many teams, including the Niners, have a starting QB. Those teams want to win.
.
I was going on the assumption that all 4 Niner QBs became injured like that previous post stated.
.
If they do not have a QB, they would be content to lose, if they do not sign Kaep, who is better than about a third of the starters, and almost all of the backups.
Ya see, Sebs??
You just have to…………..and then when somebody says that Kap is in the dustbin of NFL History, your like a dog on a bone.
Chuck E does not hate you, hate Kap or anybody else. The Truth, as it is currently defined???? ( before the 9th Circuit redefines that word)………..If Chuck E talked more about Kap in a less than adoring way, you would have started calling him a “hate this and a hate that”. Deny it till you turn blue in the face, but you do it all the time.
Saw, I knew you would chime in, so I trolled ya, for old time’s sake.;p
.
Personally, I think trading away JG is just as improbable as the Niners re-signing Kaep.
Jimmy G throws into tiny windows, and yes he’s only scratched the surface of his potential. Reason being is every game he plays allows him to grow as a quarterback, and everyone knows you can’t grow if you’re not playing. Captain Kirk is what you see, and what you’ll get. He’s good enough to win with, but I’ve yet to see him carry a franchise or elevate the game of the players around him. Throws a beautiful deep ball, but so does Beathard, and maybe that’s the biggest argument against this rumor. They already have their version of Kirk Cousins.
Not to take away from what Mullens was able to do last year, but he had lots of help from Shanny by scheming receivers into wide open windows for him to make his completions.
Got your Iron Maiden tickets for the Banc Of California Stadium yet?
I was also in favor of getting Kirk last year and trading JG or 49ers should of just by passed the JG trade and kept the 2nd round pick. That was because I knew what Kirk was and how he plays and would of helped the team right now. I still don’t know what JG can do. Look at Nick he has played well in this offense. This year will be a big year for JG, I hope he plays good and we win. He will be on a good contract for us and we should be a winning team for years. I am really surprised that Shanny would bet his tenure with the 49ers on JG instead of getting the QB he wanted. Now he could say i didn’t have my QB if he fails or gets fired but why do that. maybe hes not in charge and couldn’t convince ownership not to get JG because they thought he was so good coming from the PATS.
I would rather win now with Kirk than see or hope if JG develops into a good QB. JG hasn’t carried a franchise or elevate the game of the players around him just yet. he needs to play 16 games in multiple seasons. i don’t count the 5 games he won in a row because that was at the end of a losing season with nothing to lose and nobody had any game tape of JG. People will say they beat the jaguars and the Titans but they were close games and Im sure both teams slept on the 49ers.
People say Kirk is what he is but whats wrong with playing like a top ten QB. Nobody knows what JG can be only what he is right now which is an injured QB who hasn’t played in a full 16 game season yet. Thats why this year will be a big year for JG and the 49ers.
The only argument would be to lets see how both play in a full 16 game season and lets see who plays the best football. No matter who’s injured or who’s playing around them. i also don’t go by PFF stats or whoever else comes out with stats, I judge by how they play every game. im sure Shanny will be looking at both QB, he should if he wants to cont being the HC
Those 5 games were enough to convince Shanny, so why aren’t you counting?
Jimmy has an opportunity to be a top 5 qb under Shanny. He was drafted at the top of round 2 for that potential, whereas Captain Kirk was drafted in round 4. I think it’s safe to say he has peaked.
There really isn’t any argument for procuring Cousins other than if Jimmy were to fall flat on his face this year. The chances of that happening are slim to none, and none just left for the Dominican Republic.
Another 1st rounder signed…
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001034091/article/raiders-sign-firstround-defensive-end-clelin-ferrell
Top 10 NFL offenses…ever…
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2840871-ranking-the-top-10-offenses-in-nfl-history?
OMG Sebbie!
Shanahan’s obsession with Cousins is unhealthy. If he wanted Cousins, he should have passed on JG and told Lynch so.
Instead he harbored a grudge and pouted. If CJ hadn’t suffered an owie, I don’t think JG would have played much at all.
I think they blew it by not drafting Mahomes. He was there for the taking, but the prospect of Brian Hoyer and Solomon Thomas with the ghost of Cousins haunting Shanny was just too much to pass on.
It’s a slow time in sports when two hacks in Florio and Simms bring up the Cousins and Shanahan connection. Some Sensible people forget the fact that it was Kyle who pushed for an extension with JG. Lynch takes orders from Kyle. Especially when it comes to QBS. Remember Kyle hired lynch. Cousins was an option until Kyle saw JG play in his offense for those 5 games and realized that JG has ALOT more potential then Cousins going forward. As long as JG can stay healthy he will have a very good season. We need football to get going soon!
Garoppolo was going to get that contract the moment they made the trade. The numbers look fancy, but it was nothing more than just giving him the same as what they’d need to pay if they franchised him. By doing it the way they did they were able to save some money and push most of the big cap hit up front when they had more space to play with.
If he plays poorly this year they can move on with only $4.2 mil in dead cap next year. Peanuts.
Yes, the contract was very team friendly. They overpaid upfront to have more flexibility on the back end. Contrastingly… I would hate to be saddled with Cousins contract because of the guaranteed money.
This is not saying I like Jimmy more or less, but rather that the contracts would make such a trade a no deal for me.
Shanahan out. It’s all over the news.
He quit on his team. Something about a corvette. Or lack of corvette. Almost certainly Hilary’s Fault.
Better lock her up.
Anybody know this Esper guy? Does he run the WCO?
.
Nick Mullens film study (17 minutes) by Jackson Krueger:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJ0bS2Gq-0
Good read…even though Sebbie would dismiss it as toady fluff…
https://www.49ers.com/news/longform/winners-never-quit-and-quitters-never-win
Richard Hightower’s story.
A Wishnowsky piece…
Caution!! To some, this video will have a toady feel to it. Viewer discretion is advised. No footballs were harmed in this production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRQusBk6t58
“Pay packet”. ??
I could use a larger pay packet. Mitch could use a new set of wheels…
CFB,
Nice piece.
The Big Wishnowsky is coming to town.
Wow, 5 second hang time – get your sun glasses and neck braces ready!
Deebo Samuel was interviewed in the second segment of NFL total access at 4pm and will be replayed at 8pm. He said that his hip injury was a nothing burger and not participating in OTA was purely precautionary.
#Let’snotprematurelyhitthepanicbutton
Hey Grant….
More nonsensical Wishnowsky hype…
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/49ers-mitch-wishnowsky-has-deep-repertoire-punts-aussie-rules-days
Niner 53.
.
Offense.
.
QB- JG, Nick Mullens. CJB is traded away for a fifth round pick. Speight on PS.
.
WR- Marquise Goodwin, Dante Pettis, Trent Taylor, Deebo Samuel, Jordan Mathews, Jalen Hurd, Kendrick Bourne.
.
RB- Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida, Jerick McKinnon, Jeffery Wilson. Mostert on IR with a mid season designation to return.
.
FB- Kyle Jusczyck.
.
TE- George Kittle, Levine Toilolo, Kaden Smith.
.
LT- Joe Staley, Shon Coleman.
.
LG- Joshua Garnett, Ben Garland.
.
C- Weston Richberg, Mike Person.
.
RG- Laken Tomlinson, Willie Beavers.
.
Defense.
.
LDE- Nick Bosa, Solomon Thomas.
.
LDT- Arik Armstead, CJ Jones, Kentavious Street.
.
RDT- Deforest Buckner, Sheldon Day.
.
RDE- Dee Ford, Julian Taylor. Ronald Blair is traded away to a DL needy team for a 6th round pick.
.
SAM- Fred Warner, Mark Nzeocha.
.
MIKE- Kwon Alexander, David Mayo.
.
WILL- Elijah Lee, Dre Greenlaw. Malcolm Smith traded away to a LB needy team for a 6th round pick.
.
LCB- Richard Sherman, Tarvarius Moore.
.
RCB- Ahkello Witherspoon, Jimmy Ward. Jason Verret on IR with a mid season designation to return.
.
NCB- Alex Brown, DJ Reed.
.
SS- Jaquiski Tartt, Marcell Harris.
.
FS- Adrian Colbert, Dontae Johnson.
.
P- Mitch Wishnowski.
.
K- Jon Brown. Gould is traded to the Bears. Niners get a second round pick, and the Bears get Gould and a 49er fourth round pick .
.
LS- Colin Holba.
Seb
Good list …for the most part, I agree…However, at LDE, I do a swap, and trade Solomon Thomas and keep Ron Blair at LDE as insurance that Bosa doesn’t get damaged…Solomon is finished here….
Before the draft, I advocated that the Broncos trade for Thomas, because Whitner stated that he thought Thomas fit better in a 3-4 system, and Fangio is a 3-4 guru.
.
I also thought that Derek Wolfe, with his concussion, abdominal and neck injuries, needs a solid backup, because he may not last all season.
.
It would have given the Broncos more depth, and talent to help get them back to the playoffs, and the Niners could have gotten a second or third round pick so they could have drafted an upgrade at interior O line or a free safety.
.
I agree, I sure would like to keep Blair, but it is just a numbers game. Street is emerging from his injury, they traded for Dee Ford and drafted Bosa. Blair might out compete Julian Taylor, but you are right, it may be better to trade away Thomas, Taylor or Blair to a needy team, rather than cutting him, and getting nothing for him.
Seb
Good list …for the most part, I agree…However, at LDE, I do a swap, and trade Solomon Thomas and keep Ron Blair at LDE as insurance that Bosa doesn’t get damaged…Solomon is finished here….
Despite the name “Wide 9” The ends do not always line up at the 9 technique. Bosa will likely often line up at the 6 or 7 technique (tight over the outside shoulder of the TE). He has to set the edge by controlling the TE and penetrating when necessary.
http://www.cashprofit1.com