Former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Joe Montana, center, and his wife Jennifer pose for photos next to a statue of Montana commemorating “The Catch,” which was unveiled along with a statue of wide receiver Dwight Clark, before an NFL football game between the 49ers and the Los Angeles Rams in Santa Clara, Calif., Sunday, Oct. 21, 2018. Clark caught a touchdown pass, known as “The Catch,” from Montana in the NFC Championship game to beat the Dallas Cowboys on Jan. 10, 1982. (AP Photo/Tony Avelar)
Check out the latest episode of The Cohn Zohn. My dad and I talk about the 49ers’ decision to trade DeForest Buckner and keep Jimmy Garoppolo, we look back at the 1981 NFC Championship game and we discuss living through the CoronaVirus pandemic.
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#13 Jerry Jeudy WR. I believe the Jets and Raiders will take Lamb and Ruggs respectively. 49ers offense becomes truly explosive in 2020.
#31 Justin Madubuike DT.
#156 Michael Ojemudia CB.
#176 Justin Herron OG.
#210 Tanner Muse S.
#217 Charlie Heck OT.
#245 La’Darius Hamilton DE.
#31 *Trade* Giants send their Round 2 Pick 16 (48), Round 3 Pick 4 (68) and Round 4 Pick 14 (120) to the 49ers
#48 Blacklock, Ross, DT, TCU
Perfect fit for what Kocurek wants in a 3t.
Indeed, Blacklock does seem like a natural fit for this modified 3T or should I say “Wide 3” technique, with his above average agility, get off, and ability to fire through a gap and get into the offensive backfield in a hurry, but will he last until the 48th pick, Razor? Maybe, considering he did suffer a torn achillies in 2018.
And BTW, gotta give Kocurek a lot of credit for unlocking Armstead’s potential, am I right? Yet another example of why system fit matters. Plus, let’s face it …. Kocurek is a maniac, and there’s no doubt that guys feed off of his energy.
The NYG traded their #68 pick to the Jets.
Also the #48 and #68 are worth 670 points and #31 is worth 600. They likely wouldn’t offer #120 in that scenario.
I was giving Razor a hard time for saying Giants when he meant the Jets. The values I listed were from the trade chart.
CFC, I got that trade offer from the Giants in my mock draft on FirstPick.
*I wanted to see if I could get Blacklock in round 2.
The picks you listed are all owned by the Jets.
Lol, my bad then. Instead of Gettleman it was Douglas I was talking to.?
I’d prefer to trade back from #31 too but I’ll be taking a Guard in the second.
Trade down for Cesar Ruiz?
If they don’t think they can rely on Richburg coming back then sure, Ruiz would be a solid pick. They might also go G and then I like Robert Hunt. He played tackle but I think he’ll be a guard in the NFL.
I do not think a center is a critical need now, since they re-signed Garland.
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However, I think both Ruiz and Cushenberry could move to guard. They could still be center, if Richberg has any setbacks on his knee. Garland could start, or be an ample backup.
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Compton may have replaced Person, but some have said that Compton is marginal, at best.
Scooter’s, Matt Peart from Connecticut is a late round prospect they could have interest in too.
Razor’s trade…That’s too much for #31…more like Rd 2-#48 and their Rd 3- #79.
Maybe trade down from #13 with MIN. for their Rd 1-#25, Rd 2-#58, Rd 3-#89.. So they can get a CB or OL they want bad higher up in the 1st Rd.
At #25 the 49ers can get OT Austin Jackson 6’6″ 305lbs. KS likes that size with quick feet, he can take over for Staley. There’s McG but Person is gone and Brunskill is going to compete to start with a couple others so the OL needs to be solid, not in flux.
At #31 they can get WR Justin Jefferson 6’2″ 202lbs. runs a 4.43 from LSU…..At #58 they can get their 3T in Neville Gallimore 6-2 310lbs, runs a 4.76 40 and squats 800 lbs. and Very disruptive and fires through the gap into the backfield quick.
Yeah, Razor got confused with the Jets picks, lol. I agree with your ideas, they need the extra picks. Maybe package CJ and the 7th rd picks to move up for a pick in the 6th round. Maybe with JAX since Foles left.
Jeudy looks like a First Down Machine IMO.
Any 1st rd WR will do now that WR E. Sanders just left for N.O. worth $16M up to $19M…Pass!!
I think they should trade down to around #25 for WR Higgins, Jefferson, Reagor and pick up another 2nd and 3rd picks and they still have #31.
1. The 49ers didn’t choose Armstead over Buckner. If they did the fans would be upset. However, the fans know the 49ers chose Armstead, Ward and a 1st over, Buckner and whatever Armstead could bring back.
2. Yes, the team is worse with the loss of Buckner but no Buckner is not clearly the 2nd best DT in the league… there is Donald and about 5 to 8 guys fighting for the 2nd best DT spot. Atkins, Cox, Jones, Jarret, Rankins. Heyward, Clark. And we have yet to see who will be added to this roster in the draft or later stages of free agency.
3. Brady vs Jimmy – Jimmy is better than Brady right now, Brady was actually below replacement level on his open throw accuracy and that was in an offense he knows. Additionally, I don’t think Brady would have gotten this team to the Superbowl last year, as last time I saw him he was shut down by a bottom tier pass defense. So, I don’t think fans think its all about the future, they know Jimmy can take this team to the Superbowl and if he improves at all he can win it. Brady has to “Win” the superbowl, for the move to be worth it, and I don’t even think he could get them there.
We need a 3rd round pick so we can draft Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic.
We can still get him. :)
Seb, will tell you he we can bundle 2 of our practice squad guys for a 3rd :).
Mike Person started 14 games. Tevin Coleman started 11 games, and started in the SB. Witherspoon started 12 of 14 games in 2018, and he started 8 of 10 games last season. KS thinks Goodwin is so valuable, they will not cut him. In the early part of the season, Goodwin played in 9 games, and started 6 games.
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You are unclear of the concept. Players who start games are not scrubs. ;p
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I wanted the Falcons or Broncos to trade for Coleman, but they signed Gurley and Gordon, so that possible trade is improbable. At least I recognized that both the Falcons and Broncos needed to bolster their RB position. Now, the trade back with the Chargers may be more feasible, because they need a RB, and will want to leapfrog in front of the Chiefs, who may be wanting to draft a RB at 32. The Niners could trade back 6 spots, and get second(37) and 4th round(112) picks. It balances out exactly on the TVC.
Shshsh that’s too many facts for Cohn. Grant doesn’t like facts. He likes to disagree with what the 49ers do. He likes to hate on jimmy, because he is jealous of men who are actually successful at their profession unlike him. I think the biggest thing we are missing with jimmy is the fact that he is coming off the acl. Think about what deshaun Watson looked like a year ago. He was pretty darn bad to start the year and finished strong just like jimmy. Deshaun was also horrific at home against Andrew luck in the playoffs. It takes time. I don’t understand why people are so against a man getting a chance. Let us judge after next year. The sample size will be big enough.
Also this implication from Cohn that jimmy is stupid is just false. If you go watch his 5-0 start with the niners and his first two games with the pats, he consistently gets through his progressions. Belichick would not have loved a dumb quarterback. Part of the issue all the motions in Kyle’s offense. New England quarterbacks rely on one or 2 shifts pre snap that indicate the coverage and where they should go with the football. That is why Brady gets rid of the ball so quickly. When you run an offense with motion, the entire alignment of a defense changes thus your pre snap information is limited. This is a tough change for any quarterback which is why Brady would not have fit our system. Matt Ryan struggled with this in their first year. Kyle’s quarterbacks generally tend to throw more picks especially in their first year with him because of this.
pot/kettle- you make some good points! I like your take on Cohn too! The ego on this guy is something else…..the evidence has been there in his writing….but listening to the pod cast….it becomes clear as day! He thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room “cuz he has a degree from UCLA…..dosent matter if you make more $$ than him…..your either a dumb jock or a ” high level loser”!!! LMAO
You cant even understand the guy in his own pod cast ‘ cuz he dosent even have a “grown man voice” lmao!
His vocal cords havent hit puberty yet!!! either that ….and/ or they’re stunted from spending years alone living in Lowell’s basement…..void of human contact!
You guys are so dumb. You throw barbs at someone that you thoroughly enjoy. Why do have to agree with everything that entertains you? If I acted like you, I’d be like “F%4# Anthony Hopkins! Doctor Lector is such terrible human being” .
hey Brian, i dont like grant! I like %90 of the people that post on here! Grant is like the arrogant door man at a club……you go because you like the ppl in the CLUB! you kinda despise the door man…but you tolerate him to gain access to the club!
Shoup
Well stated and I agree. Especially your evaluation of both Brady and JG.
Haven’t listened to the podcast, but if Grant said Buck is clearly the 2nd best DT in the NFL then yeah, I agree, that’s a leap. I really like Buckner. He’s a very good, consistent player. He is among a group of guys that could be argued as one of the top 5 at the position. He has been the 49ers best player on D for a few years (though Bosa I think would have surpassed him in the near future, if not already). But I have never thought he was a game plan wrecker. More a guy you need to account for on every play, and even then will still have his share of wins. I have to say, and this is not just me downplaying things in light of the trade, I had actually been a little worried about paying top dollar to keep him as I thought he was a guy you’d pay like he’s a game wrecker and he’d never quite play up to that.
Exactly.
I like Buckner a lot, and he’s in that conversation for the second best DT because of his consistency.
A complete game wrecker he is not, and that is not really a knock on him. It is really tough for DT’s to take over games as it’s easier to scheme for them. That is why Donald is so special, teams really scheme for him and he still wrecks shop. To me, if Donald is tier 1, there is no one in tier 2, and around 8 guys in tier 3. The Gap is that big.
I don’t follow Grant’s stuff much, and so I don’t know if he has mentioned this fact. Buck’s salary against the cap for 3 years is $56M, and Arik’s is $38.5M. This is the only number that counts — the salary that counts against the cap. That’s almost $6M per year. Can probably get a couple of veteran serviceable backup linemen for that money.
Very true, it wasn’t a simple “we like Armstead more than Buckner” case.
It was a business decision that allowed for more options.
Perhaps it won’t end up being a good one, but if they draft the right guy or get a few real players out of it, it could be a great one. Fans understand this.
No pro days. Players choosing not perform drills at the combine. There will be a lot of sleepers in this years draft. I expect agents to leak personal workout videos etc in the beginning weeks of April in an effort to increase value.
I think Buckner is a great talented player, but he has a few things going against him. First, he got his payday. Some players see a decline after inking a huge deal. Will his motivation still exist?
Let’s see how he does without the benefit of three other first round draft picks on the line with him. Let’s see how he does in a division facing Derrick Henry twice a year. He will have to play Baltimore. He will face another mobile QB at Houston 2xs a year. He will be playing in a much colder environment on the East Coast regularly. He is a great talent, but he certainly cashed in his talent for a tougher road.
“Let’s see how he does without the benefit of three other first round draft picks on the line with him”
He had nothing like that in his first four years, and was very solid, then caught on and had a 12 sack season with nobody around him to help.
And more importantly he never got injured!
Can’t say the same for Armstead in either of these points.
I’m sure he will be just fine.
Agree keep Buckner…..Arm had 1 decent year…..bad move kinda like getting rid of Gore….no loyalty
The more I read and listen to Eric Crocker, the more I realise he and I have similar thoughts on WRs (and to a lesser extent CBs). No idea if that is a good thing or not. But he recently posted that at 13 he’d be happy with either Jeudy or Ruggs, but not Lamb. I agree. I like the idea of what Lamb could be, but as Crock points out far better than I ever could articulate, his film doesn’t show a guy winning through NFL calibre route running. Great hands and body control, and really great contact balance, but he mostly faced awful defenses and against better defenses that offense designed ways to get him open. At 13 I don’t feel comfortable making that pick. He could be great, but too much risk for my liking.
Apparently, OBJ is available for a trade. According to the linked article below, the 49ers made the best offer last year, but Gettleman didn’t want to trade him within the conference. He’s already got a contract, so if the 49ers were to trade for him, here are the cap numbers: $14.2 for 2020, $15.7 million the next season, and $15 million in the next two years.
I wonder if the 49ers will try to trade for him. Posey seems to think that Kyle is obsessed with wanting OBJ. Given that this is a great year for college WRs and the 49ers have the 13th pick, I would pass.
I don’t think the 49ers can take on his contract at this point. Possibly some moves they could still make to free up enough space, but would be tight.
As good as the draft looks to be for WRs, hard to imagine they will get anyone better than OBJ. If the trade package needed isn’t exorbitant, and the 49ers can find a way to fit him under the cap, it certainly wouldn’t shock me to see them make that trade.
If the 49ers did make this move, and it costs less than pick 13 (which it absolutely should for the 49ers to consider such a trade imo), that would make the Buckner trade look better. Buck was one of the top 3 guys on the roster, but at a position where the 49ers already have a lot of other good players. OBJ would instantly be one of the top 3 guys on the roster as well, but be cheaper and at a position of need. Plus the team would have a top 15 draft pick to play with to add another good talent elsewhere.
But I don’t think the Browns will be interested in a trade that gets them less than what the Vikings got for Diggs.
I really like Eric Crocker as a talent evaluator for DBs (he played that position briefly in the NFL) and WRs, and have been following his evaluations for 3 seasons. He doesn’t watch youtube highlights. He watches 3-4 full games selected at random. I like that approach.
Last year Crockers top receivers were Brown, Samuel and Metcalf. All 3 went in the second round and probably were the top 4 (along with Terry McLaurin) in the first dozen receivers taken in the first 3 rounds.
Crocker likes Tee Higgins and Brandon Aiyuk for the Niners late in the first or early in second. He doesn’t see anything special in Lavishka Shenault and Jalen Reagor.
I can see the Niners trading down for both the first round picks and getting Blacklock, a CB, and a receiver — all in the 20-50 range.
That would be ideal.
I think part of the reasoning behind the Buckner trade is Shanahan has identified a WR he really wants at 13. At this point I would be quite surprised if one of Jeudy or Ruggs is not a 49er next season.
When Crock said he liked Higgins or Aiyuk at 31 he hadn’t considered the possibility of the 49ers being in a position to draft one of the consensus top 3 (I also don’t believe he said Higgins was a guy he thought Shanahan would like, just a guy he really likes). Also, since that comment, he has said he prefers Mims to either of those guys (Mims is one rare player where I disagree a bit with Crock – I like him, but not that much, more a 2nd/3rd rounder for me).
His take on Shenault and Reagor is similar to what I had been saying, so felt pretty good that I wasn’t completely crazy when I saw Crock talking about them on his Twitter feed! He also likes Pittman a lot more than most, as do I.
As for last year, his top guys were also the same guys I liked. I’m not trying to suggest I know what I’m talking about, but it seems that the things Crock likes in WRs are similar to what I like, and Crock does a great job of articulating and explaining what my untrained eyes think they are seeing.
Ruggs wr
#31 Trade down for 2nd and 3rd
Round 2 Blacklaw 3t
Round 3 Terrell CB
Round 5 Bryant TE
That would make sense for sure.
Razor
Round 2 blacklaw 3t? Who dat? U mean DT Ross Blacklock TCU?
Yep, that’s the one. I’m starting to feel like Norm Crosby!
Whats that ya been putting in yer pipe dude? lol
Too much Blues Glues. ?
Scooter,
I’m sure you follow Crock far more closely than I do (I listen mostly to his podcasts during my commute, and now mostly while doing the dishes!), and I believe you are absolutely right with your takes about these players. You have a good eye for talent.
However, I am not sure that Buck was traded with a high pick receiver in mind. I can imagine Shanalynch being torn between loading up for another run for the Lombardi next season or (to quote Walsh) setting up base camp at the foot of the peak to make an annual assault. For the latter, they really, really would need to get a lot of good picks in the next 2-3 drafts for which they need as many mid-round picks as possible. Just look at the number of 1-2 year contracts and key aging veterans. They also have less cap flexibility for the next 2-3 seasons after this off-season’s contract reworkings. I won’t be surprised if they trade down to make good deals that involve next year’s picks.
Yeah, just speculation on my part obviously and I could be completely off base. I expect that as it got closer to working out a trade they probably had an eye towards draft strategy. Maybe that strategy was as simple as pick 13 gives them great flexibility. But my gut feeling is Shanahan has his eyes on Jeudy or Ruggs and didn’t want to accept anything less than a trade that gave them a pick where those guys are expected to go.
Ha ha it’s true Scooter.
I remember listening to his ratings and couldn’t help but think he agreed with you on almost everything. As to Mims, I like him a lot, but more because I think it’s obvious that is a hard worker with good hands and decent size. I don’t see him being an elite wr but I think he will have a long productive career.
This is why I would value him as a second or third-rounder but could understand him being a late first-rounder for those that just want a solid receiver with low bust potential.
Sanders to the Saints.
Finally the 49ers get a compensatory pick next year. With the trade of Buckner and a compensatory, we’re operating more and more like Caserio….
Of all teams the Saints! Come on man!
It’s a good move for Sanders. Kyle calls a few too many runs for him. It’s all ok.
Bon chance.
On Sanders to the Saints:
According to profootballrumors.com, it’s a two-year deal with a base value of $16 mill and can be worth up to $19 mill. Link is below. If that’s the case, I’d say it’s a very medium offer and suggests they’ve been ready all along to draft a starting receiver in the first round.
I did. But it was so long ago I forgot what it was about? Do you remember?
;p
Good for him.
He will flourish there I am sure and may help take the saints back to the superbowl, but that is not a contract SF could afford to take on.
Just listened to the Cohn Zohn. Lowell is a treasure trove of stories about the Glory Years. I would go to games, and focus my binoculars on Bill Walsh, just to watch the master in action. Bill was unflappable, and you could just tell that his mind was racing a mile a minute. I never saw Bill lose his cool. He would use biting satire to get his point across to the refs. While coaching, it seemed like he was in the zone.
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I am glad Grant watched that 1981 NFCC Game. Now, maybe he will understand why I have advocated for the Niner coaches to study the drive before ‘The Catch’. This was a classic game where one could see that the Cowboys had more talent, but the superior Niner coaching defeated a superior opponent. Yes, Joe Cool was on display, but he also threw 3 picks. Joe was amazing. He made it look effortless. Yes, BW was a stickler for technique, but Joe’s famous throw was made while throwing off the back foot while hopping back to avoid the pass rushers.
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I wish to respectfully disagree with Lowell and Grant. Tom Brady may have won 6 rings, but right now, he is not a superior QB when compared to JG. Brady’s skillsets have declined over the years. If they had gotten the opportunity to get Brady 2 years earlier, Brady would have been clearly better. Now, JG may have more upside. The Niners may focus on winning next year, but JL has built a solid foundation so they should be able to compete for a ring for years to come. We want instant gratification, but planning for the future takes vision, not blinders.
Well, Free Agency changed everything. Many teams filled their needs in free agency, so my trade proposals are now moot. However, 3 teams should still be targeted- The Dolphins, Vikings and Broncos. They have 14, 13 and 11 draft picks, so they have draft capital to work with.
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It is tempting to stay at 13, and select a WR, but the Niners should be targeting a replacement for Buckner. WRs picked in the first round tend to become injured in their first year, because they just have not worked out enough to build muscle to withstand the sledgehammer blows the DBs are paid to deliver. It is better to get a grizzled veteran, who has demonstrable skills, along with proofs of durability and resilience. That does not mean they should reach for OBJ, who does not seem like a team player, hence his moving from the Giants to the Browns. His ego might become a distraction in the locker room. Emmanuel Sanders is a good example, even though he is now a Saint. He came to the Niners for a modest price, and helped elevate them to the SB, and was one pass from helping them win it. That veteran was well worth the price, since he immediately helped the Niners through their toughest stretch of the season, and into the playoffs.
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I am not sold on Ruggs. The Niners already have Goodwin, who can run a 4.27 forty. Jeudy is slated to go to the Raiders, who pick 12th, on many, many mocks. CeeDee Lamb is going first, in the top 10. The Niners should trade back, get picks in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds, and select a good WR from this deep and talented WR class.
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I wish to propose a few trade backs. Unless Javon Kinlaw falls into the Niner’s lap at 13, the Niners should trade back 5 spots with Miami and garner their 3rd round pick (70). The NIners should trade with the Vikings, because they want to get ahead of LCV, Jax and Phi, to select the next defensive BPA. The Niners move back 4 spots, and garner their 3rd round pick(89). The Niners trade back a third time, with the Chargers because they want to get ahead of their division rival, and poach the next best RB before the Chiefs do. The Niners move back 6 spots, and garner their 4th round pick(112). This adds up exactly on the TVC.
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This would accomplish the goal of getting 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks, by moving back 15 spots.
Maiocco on Solomon Thomas:
It was interesting at the end of the season to hear his teammates talk about him. Other than Ford, Thomas might be the 49ers defensive lineman who is quickest off the snap of the ball. This season, the 49ers need him to make a great contribution
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I’ll be happy if he just CONTRIBUTES! With Buckner gone, he’s going to be the guy trying to filling his shoes and being a rotation player won’t feed the bulldog.
I hope to God that Lynch isn’t considering a trade for OBJr. That would be really dumb.
Razor
+10
Why do you say that? Is it the personality?
I can understand being concerned about whether OBJ has the right attitude to fit with the team and not cause distractions. He’s been a distraction for the Giants and Browns. Both teams have sucked though… I think on a good team there would be a lot less issues.
My main concern would be the impact he has on the young guys like Deebo, Pettis and Bourne, who all seem like pretty loose cats at the best of times. Sanders was a good role model for them. My understanding is that OBJ actually works really hard, so it isn’t that side of things I would be concerned about, but more about his impact on their demeanour and how they carry themselves on and off the field.
However, from a pure talent perspective, you aren’t going to find a more talented WR than OBJ. I know his numbers were down last year, but the Browns were awful for reasons other than OBJ. His per game production with the Giants was nuts. And he is exactly the type of WR that would go bonkers in this offense.
Yes, there’s a chance the youngsters in that room could be negatively influenced by a player that lacks leadership. You would be taking a step backwards from the step forward you just took by trading for Sanders.
No one denies OBJr. is one of the best route runners in the league but his salary is cost prohibitive on this team. Especially when you consider that you have the #13 pick and Jeudy is almost as good a route runner. Much cheaper too with less mileage. OBJr. has 6 years of wear and tear, and keeps getting nicked up here and there. I just don’t think it makes a lick of sense to trade #31 + $14 million for OBJr. How would we even sign our draft picks?
The team can free up money by moving on from Goodwin, Coleman and Nzeocha. OBJ’s contract is a bargain for as good a player as he is.
The problem isn’t finding the cap space to pay him. The problem is then finding the cap space to extend Kittle.
There is, unfortunately, no guarantee that Jeudy will be there at 13. Or that Jeudy will be as good as OBJ. Being a great route runner is just one of the things that makes OBJ one of the top WRs in the NFL.
OBJ is a cancer. Two teams already and he’s still only 27 years old. And he’s salary doesn’t work.
At #13 you take Henry Ruggs III. This guy is the perfect fit for this offense.
We need speed inside and out and Ruggs does both.
I do agree that Ruggs is the player Shanny probably covets, but if he was prioritizing route running, then Jeudy would be the guy.
Scooter, you can’t say the problem isn’t finding cap space, and then turn around and say there won’t be anything left for the heart and soul of the offense, George Eucking Kittle. Who would you rather, OBJr. or Kittle? Kittle all day for mine!
Your comment was they wouldn’t be able to afford OBJ plus draft picks. They can. In terms of Kittle’s extension, they don’t have to extend Kittle this offseason, and they could also backload it.
Short story is, they can afford OBJ’s contract, which is quite reasonable, if Shanahan really wants him. Given they tried really hard to get him last offseason I am definitely not writing this off – it has a non-zero possibility of happening if the Browns are looking to offload him.
Kittle should not show up to camp if the Niners don’t extend him this offseason.
The way he plays and the way he plays hurt, if I’m his agent I’m telling him to hold out until they extend him now.
The Niners have to extend him before camp. It’s the smart thing to do for your best player.
Prime is right, Scooter. You don’t want to drop a piss off bomb on Kittle by not extending him. The peoples TE deserves to be paid. Best show him you don’t want him on the field playing for peanuts anymore….
Scooter
If the 9ers passed on paying Sanders ~$10 Mil P/Y, I can think of $14,250,000 Mil. reasons the 9ers won’t sign OBJ. Not when there are player in the draft the 9ers can get. Not to mention if OBJ would set a bad example for the younger players.
Then there’s this: · Odell Beckham Jr. has told other players and coaches around the league that he wants out of Cleveland and has told coaches from other teams, “come get me”, per @JayGlazer.
Fine, they can backload his contract, like I said. It will be tight, but there are things the 49ers can do to make it work. It will be a problem, but hardly an insurmountable one.
Fact is the 49ers can add OBJs contract. Using his contract as an excuse to not get him, if Shanahan really wants him, is silly when you consider it is below market value.
I get you both don’t like his personality. That’s fine. No need to manufacture other reasons that don’t really stack up for not getting him.
GEEP, are you comparing Sanders to OBJ? Yikes. I like Sanders, but he’s a career #2 WR.
You just admitted that it would be a problem and at the same time accuse us of manufacturing one because we don’t like. It’s not personal, it’s the totality, Scooter.
1. Lack of leadership
2. Lack of cap
3. Older and breaking down
4. Best wr draft class ever and we’re in position to get one of the best 3 on a cheap 5 year deal
Yes, a problem in that it would be tight and might need some extra moves in freeing up space.
I understand the reticence in trading for him based on attitude and injuries, as well as this being a deep WR group in the draft. I have reservations for the same reasons. It is not the move I would make unless it cost pick 31 or less in compensation, and even then I would still have reservations. The cap “issue”, however, is a small hurdle if Shanahan deems OBJ to be the guy they need.
Regarding the draft, as good and deep as it is, how many of these guys are going to realistically step in day 1 and be great? Or be great even by the end of year 1? The 49ers have one glaring hole left on the roster – WR. They need whoever they bring in to be good. It is why I expect them to take a WR at #13. But it is a risk in and of itself – history is littered with first round WRs that failed to live up to the hype. Shanahan has already tried multiple times to find his guys through the draft. And at #13 there is no guarantee the guy Shanahan wants will be available.
So while I understand why you guys don’t like the idea of trading for OBJ, I also think you are being a bit unrealistic about the potential interest the 49ers could have. We know for a fact Shanahan really likes him. It would not surprise me at all to see the 49ers try and get something done.
Interest? Yes. #31? No. Flip it for a 2 and 3. Send the 3 plus Goodwin to the Browns for OBJr. That would get me on board, and that way the team is protected if he pulls a contract holdout or a hissy fit over having to block somebody week in and week out….
Right, so there is a point where you feel comfortable making that trade. And as you say, the main reasoning behind going so low on acceptable compensation comes down to mitigating risk around his personality/ attitude. Not the impact on the salary cap.
Good news is the Browns would be very unlikely to sell so low. Bad news is, from all reports Shanahan offered to trade a shirt load more than that last year for him.
His stock is down. Wasn’t that long ago that the Giants wanted us to give up The Bosa Constrictor for that little primadona. Then they tried for Buckner as part of the deal. Lynch didn’t even want to give up Buckner for him. Wise. The fact that the Browns have been shopping him so quickly after trading for him speaks volumes. I also don’t hear too many of his team mates having his back like ours did for Sanders. As for teetering on the precipice of cap hell, that’s only one piece of the totality of the argument against giving up #31….
This is a good debate and I am somewhere in between on this.
1. I believe that the niners do absolutely to extend Kittle this offseason, They could backload it or do whatever, but they absolutely need to make that the going forward.
2. Even saying that the niners could get the cap space for OBJ if they wanted. They might have to makes some tough decisions to do so but they could.
3. I don’t like OBJ’s attitude but he is absolutely a game changer that could unlock this offense and the idea that he’s a TO type cancer is a bit overrated IMO. He’s a diva who is immature but not a locker room cancer from everything I have seen.
Would I give up a 1 for him? Yes. Would it be the #13 pick? No.
My reasoning for this, is that while OBJ is an absolute game changer, this team needs to prepare for the future losses that are coming. ie, OT, C, DB, DT, and WR. In addition, WR is not the most valuable position to me, If I were to rank positions in terms of importance outside of QB, it would be
Tier 1. OT, DE, CB,… tier 2, WR,DT, C, S… tier 3 TE, OG, LB, RB… tier 4 FB.
Some players are so good they break tiers and some systems will prioritize different positions so it will change their tier level .. ie of OG’s are likely tier 2 in NO. \
On a side note. Many seem to think Shanahan will love Ruggs because of his speed. I don’t think that is as important to SF as getting someone that can reliably beat man coverage.
SF had some real problems last year when they couldn’t beat man quickly, as the interior of their line was bad (bottom third of the NFL if I remember correctly).
Amidst all the craziness that is coronavirus, one thing that hasn’t been discussed is the impact this is having/ will have on offseason workouts for players. This time of year is usually when players are doing strength and conditioning training. It is a really important period for guys that are entering their 2nd season, as it is their first full NFL off season strength and conditioning program. But is also important for all the other guys to for getting their body right for the rigours ahead.
No access to the 49ers facility. I imagine players have limited access to facilities elsewhere as well due to lockdowns, etc. Will be interesting to see what sort of condition players come back in. Will also be telling as to which players are self motivators.
This is exactly where the culture work put into building this team should shine.
Shoot, even players on league minimum can afford to spring for some gym equipment in their garage or spare bedroom. Their conditioning is on them. Jerry Rice ran the hill. Frank Gore tugged around an old tire full of cement. No excuses.
Yep. They can certainly afford it. But they have to be at least somewhat self motivated. So, it will be interesting to see.
Scooter:
* “GEEP, are you comparing Sanders to OBJ? Yikes. I like Sanders, but he’s a career #2 WR.”
Actually Scooter I made several points, but you failed to address them. Including the difference in their salaries. Not just if Sanders is, was, or will be a #2 WR. Would the 9ers got to the SB without him?
As you point out, there are things the 9ers can do if ShanaLynch (still) want him, but do they? Operative word “IF.”
There’s also the problem with OBJ’s attitude (self centered Diva), being a bad example on the younger player. Can you put a value on that?
Also: OBJ has told other players in the league that he wants out of Cleveland, even telling other coaches “come get me,” as reported by multiple sports writers! Obviously, it’s a little more complicated than who’s a #2 WR.
Q: Do you want OBJ? What would you be willing to pay him to be a 9er? What if he was an all pro WR? In 2020, OBJ will earn a base salary of $14,000,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/odell-beckham-jr-14421/ I’m all for getting another a WR in the draft and paying Kittle. There’s also the problem of filling the DT position Buckner left. There may be a free agent Shana/Lynch want to sign?
You’re talking about an elite talent on a contract that is below market value. His salary is only a little more than what they would have paid Buckner under his 5th year option. The move would mean they effectively replace one of their top 3 players with another elite player at a discount, who is still under contract for another 4 years, and at the position the 49ers need most.
The main reason people don’t like the idea of trading for OBJ is his personality. That is fine and I totally get it. But when I see people arguing his contract is an issue I just don’t get it. Elite talent at a below market price – his contract isn’t the issue.
As for whether I want the 49ers to trade for him – at the right trade compensation, yes. Great teams have “problem” personalities and make it work all the time, including past great 49ers teams. Success has a funny way of making problems go away. But, anything more than pick 31 and I am out.
But it isn’t up to me – I was just trying to make the point that given Shanahan is known to like him a lot, and there are rumours he is available, I think there is a good possibility the 49ers explore the option. And his contract won’t be much of a factor in their decision.
And just think, if they trade 31 for OBJ, they can then trade back from 13 and probably have a 1st and 2nd round pick on top of OBJ (and possibly more). Replace Buckner with a high pick if you are worried about how to replace him internally. Can also address OL and/ or secondary.
Scooter
Your comparing OBJ to Buckner? As you say “YIKES!” Buckner wasn’t a cancer in the locker room, OBJ is.
9ers made a business decision not to pay Buckner Donald money, but then he didn’t tell other players in the league he “wanted out” and he never told other coaches to “come get me.” As I ask you before, what’s that worth? A self centered diva, that divides the locker room, is not a super star, he’s a super problem!
* “You’re talking about an elite talent on a contract that is below market value.”
We’ll have to agree, to disagree on OBJ. I believe here’s a reason the Giants got rid of him and it wasn’t because he was an elite talent. I hope the 9ers aren’t as foolish as the Brownies….We’ll see what the market says he is, if the Brownies trade him.
In terms of talent, yeah, OBJ is at least as good a player as Buckner. Probably better.
In terms of being a locker room cancer, it would be interesting to see just how bad a distraction OBJ really is on a well run team. The Giamts and Browns are two of the wprst run franchises in the NFL.
A question for you – if the 49ers could have gotten Diggs for pick 31, would you have wanted him? Did the Bills overpay for him? Another question for you – is Jarvis Landry worth having? Both of those guys have made problems.
Was Randy Moss worth having? TO? These guys were great when they played for good teams with strong leadership.
I wish they had gotten Hopkins and a 4th round pick while the Niners could have given up Tevin Coleman and a second round pick.
Scooter
* Q: “if the 49ers could have gotten Diggs for pick 31, would you have wanted him? Did the Bills overpay for him? Another question for you – is Jarvis Landry worth having?”
A: I believe it’s a proven fact that building thru the draft is the best way to build a team, not by a team signing free agents. But to answer your question about Diggs, for pick 31. When any player uses social media to complain he’s unhappy with the team he’s playing for and wants to be traded, I’d have strong reservations about trading for him. With respect to trading for Diggs with draft pick #31: No, not likely. Maybe with a 5th – 6th Rd draft pick on a cheap, one year Paraag team friendly contract, with incentives? But not before interviewing him and stressing my concerns! The same with Landry. Just my own personal opinion, but with respect to the 2020 draft, there are too many exceptional WR prospects, to be wasting resources on expensive free agent DIVAS!
Same question for you Scooter: Would you sign WR Antonio Brown? If yes, why and If no, why not?
No on AB. He is on a different mental level.
Scooter, that’s putting it nicely.
Scooter
* “No on AB. He is on a different mental level.”
That’s true Scooter, but how do you know that won’t change once you trade for OBJ? YOU DON’T and thats the problem. If he does it, why can’t other players?
BB and NE thought they could handle AB…..How’d that work out?
On that logic you should never trade for anyone. Never know when they might AB on you!
I think you are exaggerating how bad OBJ is. He’s a diva. He’s about himself. He’s immature. But he’s not done anything to suggest he’s about to go full AB.
Scooter:
And using your logic, the 9ers could end up like the Giants and Browns. Wasting $ millions on a disruptive diva they had to cut.
The Giants: A) New York Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. made a point after Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott escaped a fine for jumping into an oversize Salvation Army kettle that he would have been fined for doing the same thing.
B) Beckham took to Instagram on Wednesday to say he was fined for wearing shoes in honor of the late Craig Sager that were auctioned for charity — and it still cost him.
C) “With his latest Twitter rant, Odell Beckham likely answered the riddle of why he was traded. If you don’t believe OBJ’s latest tirade isn’t cringe worthy, then clearly you have a case of BDS (Beckham Derangement Syndrome).” Not my words Scooter, the words of a NY sports writer.
The Browns:
A) Odell Beckham complains on social media about fine for uniform violation. “14 k for some pants that are NOT gonna protect me from anything … this shxt is ridiculous,’’ Beckham posted on his Instagram story.
B) Browns receiver OBJ, previously complained about a warning letter from the NFL after wearing his expensive Richard Mille watch during a game. (Head case)
C) Sunday’s report from Jay Glazer of FOX, that Beckham has told other players and coaches to “come get me!”
D) Sources close to Odell Beckham Jr. confirmed that the wide receiver did talk to other players and teams about leaving Cleveland.
Bottom line: I don’t see that much difference between OBJ and AB. Both were cut because they were a cancer and a waste of resources. We both have our opinions of him and we both know what opinions are like….and everyone has one! Rather than wasting our time, lets agree
to disagree and enjoy talking about the 9ers. Not some other teams problem?
* Division rivals Arizona Cardinals signed DT Jordan Phillips, a starter, to complement Chandler Jones and acquired WR DeAndre Hopkins in a deal with Texans. Both Cardinals games were close and with draft picks, they will be an improved team in 2020.
* The Seahawks split with the 9ers in 2019. With Wilson, WR’s D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, healthy RB’s in Carson and Penny, plus 8 draft picks, they will challenge the 9ers for the division title in 2020.
* After losing Buckner and Sanders, the 9er must find player to fill those positions. The Cardinals and Seahawks have dangerous WR’s. Weatherspoon is a question mark. Sherman’s still a top CB, but a year older and he did get exposed in the SB. The 9er’s need CB’s that can cover them if they going to return to the SB
E Sander gets to play with the Saints…good move by him….he will have DBrees tossing him the football
A couple of thoughts about the recent 9er moves.
1st–Buckner–I understand why the team did what they did. There was no real chance to re-sign him at THE PRICE THE 9ERS WANTED. That is important to note because signing him at the price Buckner wanted (deserved?) would have limited other moves. So the team did what they could do to maximize a current return. That being said:
2nd–Armstead–he is a good player and seems to fit out system well. But he is not the player that makes others around him better. He is the player that is made better by other players. The argument can be made that he was, at best, the 3rd best d-linemen on the team behind Bosa and Buckner. And I believe that a healthy Ford and Jones contributed to Armstead’s success more then the other way around. And his contract is structured so that after the 2nd year, the Niners can make an early decision to get out or re-do it. I do believe that the team is expecting more from DJ Jones next year as not just an early down player. And can the combo of S. Thomas, J. Taylor, and K. Street step up to be more then just rotational players?
3rd–also remember, C-Richburg and DL-Jones were on IR for the SB and both will (I assume) be back healthy. Also OT-Coleman, DL- Street and Taylor and second year CB-T.Harris will have a leg up on all new comers.
Overall- the team has changed enough so as to not stay the same and has given itself a chance to maybe improve. But… it has also kept the core together so that there is no question about what their ceiling is going to be.
And Grant, thank for giving us stuff to talk about here on your blog during these trying times. Please keep it going.
Everyone be safe, take care of yourselves and you families.
hey everyone! hope all is well:) just thought i’d share some thoughts to pass the time.
Buckner- it wasnt just the value/size of the contract….it was the cash flow/cap# in the first couple years! Paraag is doing contracts with low cap#s this year and next….then allowing them to balloon in 2022 because the cap will make a huge jump that year with the new tv deal…AAs cap number this year is $6mil….AA and Jimy Ward cap #s combine is about $10 mil this year!!!!!! That is the key! DB getting double that this year!! Not only did he want big $$$ he wanted it NOW!!! No team friendly structure. So based off of that…..i think it was a great move!
Draft-wr at 13 seems to be a lock. I wouldnt mind any of the top 3. I like Ruggs speed, wouldnt mind him. But this draft is very deep at wr….so i wouldnt be shocked if we took a wr later than 13…..we could take BPA at 13( more on that in a min.) and get a wr at 31…….or…..id love a trade with Miami- our 13 for 18 and 24 i believe they have….. That would give us 3 first rounders! even if JJ and CDL are available… i still like this move.
Weather we draft at 13 or move back…..if not wr……i could see them going DT or OL……..i dont think the value is ther for CB, maybe at 31 the value for CB would line up.
crazy moves- by crazy, i dont mean idiotic….i mean surprise! Trade both first round picks to move up and get Chase Young DE ohio state! i dont really see Washington doing business with us…..but if they get crazy and take Tua…..the Lions might make this move! If this did happen….i’d try to trade back into the late first round or early 2nd to get a wr.
Trade for OBJ….the rumors wont die and i saw a picture of him in elk grove the other day!? I wouldnt give up 13….maybe 31….but preferably next years 2nd or something like that! Then we get an O or Dlinmen with 13….
Draft wr at 13 and Johnathan Taylor at 31!! The offense would be great! I know we have a log jam of rb’s…..but one that size with that speed could put up HoF #s with that running scheme!!
Dont sleep on Oline. Everyone is thinking WR or DT to replace Buckner…..but we do have Hurd and TT coming back as well as 8+ guys that play DT! CB would probably be the next position on everyone’s list…… But Sherm is starting on one side and AW and EM are both young with lots of starting experience!
The draft is gonna be fun! I cant wait for it! We also could trade down for more picks…. i think there is a lot of good mid round talent…….but im not sure we have 7-9 roster spots to give out……but ANYTHING could happen!
* Draft pick #18: CJ Henderson, CB Florida. 40 = 4.39s, B-press, 20 reps, VT 37.5″, B-jump 127.0″ I’d like to see his 3 cone and 20 Yd shuttle , but he didn’t do them.
NFL Analyst, Lance Zierlein: Silky smooth boundary cornerback with mirror-and-match footwork and the agility and athleticism to stay connected to routes. He has NFL recovery burst and the long speed to track vertical routes downfield. He has the twitchy acceleration to jump a throw and take it away if the quarterback lingers on the target, and he’s quick to wrap and finish after the catch. He makes mental mistakes from time to time and occasionally loses awareness from zone. He’s willing and capable in run support but needs better control as an open-field tackler. Henderson is a fluid cornerback with ball skills and burst and has CB1 ability as a first-rounder.
* Armstead: I agree
* “Trade both first round picks to move up and get Chase Young DE ohio state! lol, Maybe if #e(( freezes over?
* “Trade for OBJ” No way, don’t want him.
* “Draft Johnathan Taylor at 31” Shanahan drafts his RB’s on day 3, not in the 1st Rd. Check out RB Darrynton Evans, App St. Rd #7 at 9er draft pick #245
* “The draft is gonna be fun!” I Agree! “We also could trade down for more picks…. i think there is a lot of good mid round talent.” I Also agree….Can’t wait for it!
just an FYI-
Im not too high on Kinlaw or the other top DT at 13 due to some scouting reports ive read questioning effort.
Im not high on CBs at 13 based on scouting reports ive read about the kid from Florida on others behind Okuda…..claiming their ceiling might be a good #2 cb
I think the value at 13 is with wr or Oline IMO.
another crazy move would be tp trade up for Okuda, Ohio State cb…….if he falls to 5 or 6
What if Wirfs is the target because they know Staley plans to retire. Similar to the way Justin Smith went out.
exactly razor! i was thinking if we draft a guy at 13…he could play Guard for a year or 2 until JS retires…….but your right! JS might be ready to retire NOW!!!! And Lynch might have asked him to keep it quiet till after the draft!
There is at least 3 Olinemen i would take if they fell to 13
Razor / j
If the 9ers knew Staley wanted to retire, why resign swing Tackle Shon Coleman? For insurance?
With cap space tight, I don’t know? Maybe, but I doubt it. I do agree there are at least 3 O-linemen I’d like to see the 9ers sign, but not at #13, Top of my O-line list is Center Cesar Ruiz, Michigan, late Rd 2. Top OT is Tistan Wirfs, Iowa, but I’d be shocked if he fell below the top 10.
If Staley is ready to retire now he is doing the team no favours by not announcing it to clear up cap space.
Good point, Scooter.
scooter- that is a good point….but the context is- Lynch knows Staley is ready to retire bust asked him to keep a lid on it in order to not have the teams hand reviled before the draft. yes, its a reach….but if true…Lynch knows he has that cap $$ in his back pocket! Maybe it would go to Kittle on an extension……maybe its to pay OBJ when we trade next years 2nd rounder for him
Willis, Wirfs, Becton and Thomas…..all ranked in the top 15 overall at CBS
I think they look hard at Javon Kinlaw, because he is the most logical replacement for Buckner. Kinlaw is so good, they have to double team him all the time, just like Buckner.
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Looking at many mocks from the database, Kinlaw is slated at 13 many times, with a DB for the 31st pick.
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Since they signed Compton and re-signed Garland, I do not think they would go for an OL at 13, and it all depends where the QBs fall. This draft is deep in O linemen, so they could get a good prospect in the second day of the draft. 21 O linemen were ranked in the top 100 picks. 13 ran 5.1 or better. Some teams may want to move up to select QBs, which may let Kinlaw fall to 13, although he has been mocked in the top 10 many times.
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Wirfs in mocks has gone as high as 4 to the Giants, and since the Cards obtained Hopkins, they most likely would pick Wirfs if he were available at 8. The Browns and Jets may also be looking at O linemen with their first picks.
i hear ya seb…i think theres value at OL at 31. I dont question Kinlaws talent….but scouts have questioned his constancy….and that is enough for me…especially with so many DT’s already on the roster! I believe we need to do our due diligence ant give them a look- Armstead,Thomas, Day, Jones, Street, Moore, Blair……..thats 7 guys and i know we have more!!!! I mean geez,,,,,over 7 guys to play 2 spots!!! I think DE is more of a need IMO
Buckner was the best DT on the team. He won the most valuable player award. Those DTs on the team are inferior to Buckner, and will be hard pressed to replace him.
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Thomas has questions. Will he ever live up to his number 3 status?
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Day is still a free agent.
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Jones, Street, Moore, Blair and Julian Taylor are all injured.
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DE is not a high priority with Ford and Bosa.
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Kinlaw has questions about his consistency? Kocurek will whip him into shape, and get him to play hard from the snap to the whistle.
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Kinlaw commands double teams, just like Buckner does.
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My worst case scenario is that Kinlaw may go in the top 10. Then, the Niners should trade back.
I’m not sure where the “lack of effort ” label is coming from… I only found one scouting report questioning his effort.
Here are some quotes I found in his scouting report just doing a quick search.
“consistent motor to maximize his good natural gifts”
” and showing a constantly humming motor.”
“Always plays with a hot motor and pursues the football.”
His biggest problem is that he is extremely raw as he is relatively new to football, so his consistancy suffers as he doesn’t have the muscle memory or mental processing part down just yet. I don’t know that I would take him at 13… but I do think he would be upgrade over Buckner by the end of his second season.
Shoup
Lance Zierlein, NFL Analyst:
“For a player with so many elite physical traits, Kinlaw’s tape was much more inconsistent than expected. He had moments where he was able to use his size, length and power to overwhelm opponents, but poor pad level and an inability to harness his energy coming off the snap led to body control and balance issues that prevented him from reaching his full potential. He can be a disruptive force along the interior with that explosive first step and freaky physical gifts, but utilizing his heavy hands and plus length as a read-and-react 3-4 end might allow for improved technique, control and consistency. No matter the front, Kinlaw’s traits and potential could make him a solid starter early in his career.”
* I don’t think he’ll still be available at draft pick #13, but even if he is, is he a good fit for the 9ers as a read-and-react 3-4 end?
Many college players must step up their game when they become pros.
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Thankfully, Kocurek would be drooling over his elite skills, and would teach him to become a disruptive force. Look what he did with Bosa.
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Not many players are rated as highly as Kinlaw, and since he commands double teams, he could easily replace Buckner. All of the other positions are adequately addressed, but there is a big need to replace Buckner.
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Staley and Sherman will play, so they only need to groom their successors. Buckner’s loss means they have to immediately address that need.
“Read” is a four letter word in a Kocurek wide 9 defense. Penetration, penetration, penetration. Blacklock to me looks like he possesses the physical skill set they’re looking for at 3t, and you should be able to get him in round 2….
Blacklock- ‘Flashes menacing disruptive qualities as a gap seeker, but is just ordinary when forced to sit and take on blocks.’
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Weaknesses- ‘Missed all of 2018 with an Achilles injury. Drops head into double team challenges.’
We don’t sit and take on blocks. Not in this defense. There is no 2 gapping allowed.
If the 49ers decide to address the CB position at #13 and wait to get a WR with their second pick I think I’d pass over Reagor and Shenault and give Gabriel Davis some consideration. His route’s leave a little to be desired but not as bad as Reagor from what I gather.
You really think they would consider a CB at #13? They Constricted opposing pass offenses better than any other team.
Makes sense when you consider the depth in the draft at the two positions. Fairly large drop off from the top couple CB’s to the rest of the class, not quite the situation at WR however with high quality candidates still available into the second and possibly third rounds.
Sherman needs to be replaced.
The problem the 49ers face is they have one remaining glaring hole on the roster – WR (unless you believe the team is happy to roll with the same guys as last season, who they felt compelled to improve on mid-season). It is an immediate need, and I expect they likely feel they need to find a guy they believe can start in 2020.
At CB, on the other hand, they have three outside guys they believe in and a slot they believe in. The chances of whoever they draft at CB starting this year is reasonably low. There is a big issue looming at CB in 2021 with all these guys coming off contract, so they will no doubt add at the position, but it doesn’t need to be a guy that can start immediately.
Yep. I think their philosophy is to develop cb’s and get them a pass rush to help facilitate that development.
Yea, I’m not convinced they would draft a CB that high. We just saw what a pass rush can do for a secondary. From worst to first! RG was the weakest link on the team. They got 3 guys lined up for that competition in Brunskill, Garland and Compton. In a perfect world you’d probably like them as backups if you’re spending a high pick on OL. I think the only other position they need a starter at is opposite Samuels, and that’s why I still believe it will be either Jeudy or Ruggs….
I’m not totally convinced they believe in their CB’s at this point. Akhello clearly lost his job but are they 100% sold on Mosely? Sherman is ready to be replaced.
A large part also comes down to what are their plans for next year and how do they view the 2021 class of corners. They might be looking for Staley’s replacement next year instead.
Before the injury they believed Coleman was a starting OT in this league. He does well this year and I’d imagine he’ll get a chance to compete for LT next year….
They believed in their CBs enough to roll with them in 2019 when almost everyone believed they needed to upgrade, and continued to roll with them even when ‘Spoon got hurt. The CBs then repaid that faith by playing well most of the season.
Same cannot be said of the WRs.
Correct.
The CB class wasn’t deep last year either and Sherman is another year older. You’re also ignoring that the greatly improved pass rush was making the corners look better than they really were, that was illustrated when Ford got hurt and the secondary started to struggle.
It’s a unit that needs a new starter if not this year next for sure. They can probably grab a starting CB in the first and still get a starter worthy candidate WR in the second maybe even third round, can’t say that about the CB position in this draft. So if they do want to upgrade the CB position it would make sense to address it first and then double back for a WR.
Personally I want Jeudy, but if they do select a corner at #13 I’m not going to be shocked.
Grant, this CB over WR in the first was your idea. How about you give us your thoughts.
If there were no good CB prospects likely to be available beyond pick 13 I would potentially agree, but I don’t see that as being the case. They need a starting WR in 2020. They need starting CBs for 2021. Draft a CB with 31 or after a trade back from 31.
They didn’t trade for a corner. Who’d they trade for? A wr, am I right? Saints In Hell!
Razor
I believe Shana/Lynch wants to draft WR Henry Ruggs III with draft pick #13! But if not, will the 9er trade down?
Trade draft pick #13 to MIA for Draft picks #18 and #70?
#18: Draft CB: CJ Henderson, Florida
#31: Draft WR: Justin Jefferson, LSU
#70: Draft C: Cesar Ruiz, Michigan
* With Buckner gone, the DB will have to cover longer and both Arizona have WR’s that will make that difficult.
Ariz. QB Kyler Murry and WR’s DeAndre Hopkins, Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk and draft pick # 8
Sea: QB Russel and WR’s DK Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, David Moore and 8 draft picks.
I could see them trading out of #13 if there was an offer they couldn’t refuse.
Geep-
about the only thing im against in this draft….. Is drafting is drafting Cj Henderson with our first pick! The scouting report basically said theres a huge drop off from Okudah to the next few…..and that Henderson will be the 2nd cb taken based off of his 40 time……and that he MIGHT develop into a decent #2 cb……but that hell never be able to consistently cover a teams #1 wr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds a lot like AW and EM if you ask me! IMO…..we must come out of this draft with a #1 wr firt and foremost …..ans after that if we get get either- an Olinemen who could start one day- a cb to push AW and EM- Dline help
Yeah, I think Ruggs is the target too.
It’s not because of his 4.27s 40 either, though his speed is part of it. It’s because he combines that speed with pretty good route running, good hands, body control, contact courage and decent enough size to take the rigours of an NFL season.
It is also partly because I think Jeudy will be gone. If Jeudy and Ruggs are available at 13, that could be an interesting discussion at the draft table.
Scooter
* ” If Jeudy and Ruggs are available at 13, that could be an interesting discussion at the draft table.
TBH, I’m not too sure who I’d pick, but I think Shanahan likes Rugg’s speed and route running?
* Someone on the blog pointed out there are also excellent WR’s in 2021 draft. Buckner’s loss means the DB will likely have to cover WR’s longer, so it’s possible the 9ers trade
down and take a CB with #13?
The 49ers have left themselves in a position where they should be contending for the SB again this year, but outside of Deebo don’t have any WRs they can really rely on to produce at a high level (and even then, Deebo is only a 2nd year guy and we have seen sophomore slumps by guys the 49ers were counting on before).
Every other position pretty much is covered for 2020 at least, though there are obviously some areas that could still be improved and depth added. But in terms of having a very unsettled starting lineup, WR is by far the biggest question mark.
So the team isn’t really in a position to just wait to add a WR when it represents value in the draft, and certainly can’t put it off until 2021, unless they feel like taking a huge gamble. Admittedly they did that with CB in 2019, and it worked out for them so wouldn’t be unprecedented. But when you know your SB window is now it seems like an unnecessary risk to take.
In terms of Ruggs vs Jeudy, yeah, that’s a tough one if they have the option of either.
I think Jeudy’s route running will interest Shanahan a lot, and while his 4.45s 40 isn’t shabby he looks like he plays faster than that too. Pretty good with the ball in his hands as well. Jeudy makes a lot of sense, and I can easily see Shanahan loving him.
But something is telling me Ruggs may be the guy even if he has the choice between both, for the reasons I outlined above. Just seems like a Shanahan guy that will open up the field for everyone but is also a good option to take short passes the distance and work the middle of the field.
Whose got the better hands?
I enjoy the cohn zone. Good format and an interesting take.
One of the topics raised was about Bill Walsh calling plays to get his players involved in the games early to help with the big match enthusiasm/nerves. I think JG in particular showed like most people he was excited to play in the playoffs. This is where KS could have called more plays to get JG in rhythm and kept him there for the whole of the game. Instead JG seemed ‘cold’ a number of times. It was extraordinary that KS said he wouldnt have changed how he called the SB. The time to strategically gamble is when you have 2 1/4s to play. He should have let JG go for it in the 2 minute drill. Backed him. The time to be conservative is with 5 minutes to go. Whereas to expect JG to win the game with a couple of minutes to go is odd. Making higher risk plays with no time to recover your position. All of KS tactical calls will seem correct at the point of making them but I think BW’s strategy of involving the players early, keeping them involved and taking risks at the right point in the game is stronger. Genius play designers sometimes try to be too clever.
I think it would be interesting to hear more CohnZones talking about strategy vs tactics in football and how the great coaches differ form the good in their approach.
Do you think the 49ers go after OBJr.?
Matt Maiocco
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@MaioccoNBCS
No, I don’t because this draft class is steeped with talented wide receivers. For the #49ers to commit big cap dollars to another player makes it more difficult to retain George Kittle on a long-term contract. Right now, he’s got to be the No. 1 priority. https://twitter.com/Wisconsin49er/status/1241380712839872512 …
Maiocco does a good job but this is a bad take. First off if the Niners wanted to pay OBJ and Kittle long term they could easily. Cutting Coleman, Goodwin frees up almost 10 mil. At that point we are working with 25 mil in cap space. 35 million comes off the books next year with Sherman and S Thomas , Staley coming off the books. You could easily structure Kittles contract in a way that starts paying him top dollar in 2021. Not to mention the cap is going to start growing huge starting in 2021. I could be wrong but to let go of Sanders when he is only making 8 mil a year for 2 years signals to me that they could easily flip 31 for a Vet Wr. OBJ in my opinion is in play. If he is not I believe Ruggs is absolutely the target at 13. There is no way they take a corner at 13… Another stupid take by many on here. Plus CJ Henderson is not that good. Much more likely to go Kinlaw or Brown IF he fell then a corner. Niners also sniffed around with Hooper in free agency. Apparently were in the running. That to me is a CLEAR sign that they will upgrade from Dwelly who is at best a #3 TE.
I like Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic. We’re not drafting a cb at #13 and we’re not trading for OBJr. I agree Ruggs will be the pick….
This is a deep and talented draft. There may be 5 QBs taken in the first round. 20 out of the top 100 prospects are O Linemen. 18 out of the first 100 prospects are WRs. 25 DBs can run 4.5 or faster. 15 DBs can run 4.45 or faster.
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The Niners should trade back, and get picks in the 2nd 3rd and 4th rounds, with the top 100 being the sweet spot in the draft.- Players in the late third round that can contribute right away, and possibly start.
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Javon Kinlaw may go in the top 10, so I will consider him unattainable. Therefore, they should trade back. They may miss out on some really good players, but they could also fill multiple needs.
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2 later DTs the Niners should consider are Marlon Davidson, and Davon Hamilton. They may be adequate replacements for Buckner.
#13 should be Henry Ruggs cuz he is to good to pass on with his blazing speed, willingness to block and he’s not shy for contact ,and his big natural hands.
Can you imagine a Shanny offense with Deebo Samuel,Trent Taylor Jalen Hurd and Henry Ruggs that’s pretty insane for our opponents DC.
And just trade down from #31 for additional picks.
I found this earlier while looking for 10 yard splits from the combine.
1.43s 10 yard split for Ruggs. That is, of course, very fast. I believe that the fastest in combine history is 1.40s. Anything below 1.5s is very fast.
Jeudy with 1.48s tracks with what he shows on tape too. He looks faster than his 4.45s 40 because he gets on top of the DB so quickly.
I like Jeudy quite a bit more than Ruggs for SF. He is not as fast but he is so much better at creating early separation, which fits better Jimmy’s game. This becomes even more relevant given our issues in pass protection. Additionally, I think he is fast enough to get overtop if its asked of him.
I like Jeudy too but he’s got a lot of dropsies.
True, but he’s always open and he was option A the same field with Ruggs, who coincidentally was option C in that in that receiving group.
Ceedee is also good, but he is from a conference that has only read about defense on the internet, so that makes me a bit nervous.
In truth I am leary of all wr’s even the previous greatest draft ever… Watkins, Beckham, Evans, Benjamin, and Cooks were all first rounders.
Option A or option C. I don’t think you can go wrong with either at #13.
That was a great draft, but how many of the drafting teams are thrilled with those selections?
That’s my concern with Jeudy too. Time using Jugs should help fix it, but it’s a question mark.
Another mid round WR prospect to look at is Denzel Mims. Nice sleeper in the 3rd.
CFC
WR Mims has moved up the draft boards after his Combine performance. Looks like he’s now projected to go early to mid second round.
Mims was dominant in the Senior Bowl practices. DBs were grabbing his jersey because he was always open, and he showed refined route running and soft hands. I have seen him mocked into the first round.
GEEP says:
March 23, 2020 at 8:55 am
CFC
WR Mims has moved up the draft boards after his Combine performance. Looks like he’s now projected to go early to mid second round.
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Yea, found a tweet from Benjamin Albright that says he thinks he’s a 20-25 guy.
So if they wanted to target him they could swap with say Minnesota who also has two first round picks both of which that fall into the 20-25 range.
49ers get #22, #58, and #105 and they draft Mims at #22. They also get a 2nd and a late 3rd.
Personally I’d rather have Jeudy if he’s still there at #13 but the above scenario wouldn’t suck either.
In no particular order, DL, OL, CB with the 13th pick. Pick up the WR with the 31 pick and don’t worry about reaching. Screw trading back as Lynch/Shanny have shown a penchant for filling out the roster with hidden talent in the late rounds.
Undercenter
Shan/lynch traded for WR Sanders because they knew the 9ers needed him to get to the SB. The 9ers still have that need. With so few draft picks, the 9ers will likely trade down with draft pick #31
Geep I hear what you are saying, but this draft according to the pundits is deep in the WR class. Drafting a WR ‘might’ make the WR corps better but it also makes them younger. I have never been fond taking skill position players early in the draft. Games are won and lost in the trenches and the Niners trenches are suspect especially on the offensive side of the ball.
UC
* Who do you believe the 9ers will sign at WR, to replace Deebo Samuels?
* “Niners trenches are suspect especially on the offensive side of the ball.”
Yes and no. OG Person was cut and Brunskill will likely replace him. 9ers resigned free agent OT Shon Coleman, as backup swing OT. The only question is Center Weston Richburg’s recovery. Garland looked to be an adequate short term backup. If the 9ers don’t believe Garland is capable of being the starter, I look for them to draft a Center (Cesar Ruiz) after trading down with draft pick #31
Who else do believe the 9ers should change on the O-Line and who should replace them?
Trade back. Use the 2 first round picks wisely, and get picks in the 2nd 3rd and 4th rounds to tap into the second day of the draft. Follow the Larry Roberts strategy like Bill Walsh did in 1986.
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The Colts, Seahawks and Pats have traded back within the last few years, and have garnered many extra picks. The Seahawks turned one late first round pick into 6 picks, to help rebuild their defense quickly.
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There is more of a chance that a third round pick becoming a starter than a 6th round pick. The Niners had late round picks work out, because the roster was decimated, depleted and deficient, with many needs. Now, this is a rebuilt SB roster, and few third day picks may crack the lineup.
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Sure, they may just stick with the picks they have, but I remember that JL managed to make 6 trades in his first draft. He knows how it can be done, and it is the superior strategy because it will lock up more players under rookie contracts, which will help with the salary cap, and tap into the sweet spot of the draft.
I had a quick question regarding the offensive line,….. would moving Staley to the right side and having McGlinchey side by side with one playing tackle and the other guard….. extend Staley’s career and give them a dominate run side? Or would neither be suited to play guard?
dc9er
Why ruin the O-Line continuity by moving either? If Staley believes he’s no longer capable of playing LT at a
high level, he’ll retire.
The 9ers resigned free agent OT Shon Coleman to a one year contract, to see if he’s recovered from a leg injury. If they believe he has, he’ll be the swing OT and likely Staley’s replacement when he retires.
I am not sold on Ruggs. I remember the blazing speed of Cooks and Ross, and they have underachieved in the NFL. The Niners already have a WR with blazing speed in Goodwin.
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At Alabama, Ruggs benefited from RBs Josh Jacobs and Najee Harris. Other teams would focus on stopping them. Jerry Jeudy would command the double coverage, so Ruggs benefited from single coverage.
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What the Niners lack is that tall WR who can high point the ball. Tee Higgins, Justin Jefferson and Denzel Mims are 3 WRs who may be available at 31. Later round candidates include – Michael Pittman, Chase Claypool, Antonio Gandy- Golden, Donovan Peoples Jones, Collin Johnson and Van Jefferson.
J
* YOUR COMMENT: “The scouting report basically said theres a huge drop off from Okudah to the next few.”
After re-reading your post again today, I’m curious who’s scouting report you’re reading?
While I don’t disagree Okudah is the #1 CB in the 2020 draft, I’m not sure he’s that much better than Henderson.
* Former NFL and AFL cornerback Eric Crocker said He viewed CJ Henderson as the number one CB, on his CrockTime account….https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/2020-nfl-draft-cj-henderson-gators-best-cornerback-eric-crocker
Also, here’s Lance Zierlein, NFL Analyst opinion. “Silky smooth boundary cornerback with mirror-and-match footwork and the agility and athleticism to stay connected to routes. He has NFL recovery burst and the long speed to track vertical routes downfield. He has the twitchy acceleration to jump a throw and take it away if the quarterback lingers on the target, and he’s quick to wrap and finish after the catch. He makes mental mistakes from time to time and occasionally loses awareness from zone. He’s willing and capable in run support but needs better control as an open-field tackler. Henderson is a fluid cornerback with ball skills and burst and has CB1 ability as a first-rounder. “
GEEP- CBS scouting report.
I like Ruggs at 13 and maybe the cb from Bama at 31…or….
Oline at 13 and Mimms at 31??
How about Becton, Oline if he makes it to 13??? he fast for a guy 6’7 365!!!!! play G for a year then move to LT when JS retires??
J
WR Ruggs Check
Bama CB Trevon Diggs: A former WR with rare combination of size, strength & ball skills. A good Press CB. Inconsistent staying with downfield routes and long speed is his kryptonite, causing him to grab and hold.
Lance Zierlein, NFL analyst. I haven’t yet read what Eric Crocker’s said about him.
IMO: Probably take a year of coaching before Shanahan trusts him enough to let him see the field? Some are projecting him as a better fit at FS?
WR Denzel Mims: Excellent height, weight and speed with an insane catch-radius. A RZ threat that can catches the ball above the rim, but struggles to release and separate from physical press corners and doesn’t always use his body to boxout opponents for positioning on contested catches.
IMO: With NFL coaching, I believe he could become a dangerous “Z” receiver in a vertical offense. I think it’s wrong, but some NFL scouting report say his floor may be lower than some teams are comfortable with?
* A WR I like, but won’t be drafted by the 9ers. Notre Dame WR Chase Claypool. 6′ 4″ X 238, 4.42s 40,
Benched 19 reps, Vert= 40.5″ and B-jump 126.0″ Physical inside the route, adept at making contested catches. Has the size/strength/speed to muscle up CB’s on 50/50 deep balls and a vertical challenger outside. A possession receiver as a big slot, an outstanding run blocker and immediate coverage ace on special teams.
Carolina got a 5th for sorry @$$ Kyle Allen?
JP
Renews hope for a better return on a Goodwin trade!
Just barely listened to the CohnZone (at least part of it). I think its hilarious how Grant loves to talk about the fans being biased and overly-optimistic, which I would say is mainly true, however the funny part is that Grant is about as unbiased as CNN at this point.
The irony is that i would say those uber-optimistic are certainly not the fans that make up this comment section, due to the fact that they hate Grant. I think for the most part we are mainly realistic about expectations. So not sure who exactly Grant is talking about.
Lamb and Jeudy will be off the board by the time we pick. Ruggs may not be the route runner that Jeudy is but his hands are better. Tbh, there’s really not that much separation between the two. Ruggs isn’t just a speed guy. He’s a good route runner in his own right, but his hands are softer than Jeudy’s. That’s why I feel like you can’t go wrong with either player. There’ll be an adjustment period for Ruggs as he goes up against NFL cb’s, but his hands, speed and Shanny will serve him well. When he’s on the field a safety will be held to account at all times. Our offense’s lethality rate immediately goes higher….
The Niners just signed FA Joe Walker LB who played for the Cards last season.
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Hmmm, imagine the intel………;p
Hightower gets his man!
Tom Pelissero
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@TomPelissero
The #49ers are signing LB Joe Walker to a one-year deal, source said. Walker took a first-round pick’s job last year, started 11 games and had 65 tackles for the #Cardinals. Now, he stays in the NFC West.
363
2:31 PM – Mar 23, 2020
JP
After all the players the 9ers (re)signed, do you have the latest latest Cap numbers?
I do not. I’m still waiting to see the details on Compton’s contract.
They have about 15-16.5 million in cap space right now.
$19.5 Million, to be exact.
Albert Breer
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@AlbertBreer
Per the NFL’s internal cap report, 10 teams with least space as of this AM.
Anyone else check out the new Rams logo? Very similar to the Chargers.
its the worst ! lol they call it a rams horn, but it looks like the chargers lightning bolt bent to the shape of the rams horn!!! this logo could suffice for both teams…..and not one person would care lol
Razor,
Ha! Looks like something Disney designed.
With a draft rich in WR’s, it’s a roll of the dice on who the 49ers will chose.
My personal WR pick would be Ruggs because of his killer speed. While Ruggs is a little on the smaller side, he has large hands which makes his catching ability much better.
I’ve been leaning towards CeeDee and Juedy, and either one of those two would be a nice addition, but when I think of which WR may have caught the long pass that Jimmy G overthrew to Sanders in the Superbowl, Ruggs’ is my choice.
The small fast shifty wide receiver has no durability in the NFL. The media and the hyperbolic fan both like to say how that receiver type takes the top Off a defense.
You have to have time through protection. IMO, it’s Better to shore up your secondary, add talent and depth across multiple positions, than add one player that will likely play 60% of the year and be gone in three. Ex: Minnesota Philly, Tampa bay. Don’t spend a 1st round pick at receiver, because that receiver will not survive 5 year contract.
Top 5 nfl receivers in 2019: Michael Thomas. 6’3” 212. Julio Jones. 6’3” 220. Chris Godwin 6’1” 209. DeVante Parker. 6’3” 216. Keenan Allen 6’2” 211.
Only 1 receiver out of the top 15 last year was under 6 ft. DJ Moore.
Don’t waste a pick on a frail undersized speedy receiver. No to Ruggs.
There has been large WR’s who have fizzled out like Benjamin, Funches and Green. These guys were the talk of the draft not very long ago because of their great size and measurables. Benjamin and Funches had a small window of success, but Green couldn’t even get on the field.
Ruggs’ speed gives him a special dynamic that can’t be created because it’s a gift. This gift reminds me of a 7′ basketball player. There are some dynamics that can’t be taught.
matt- Tyreek Hill is the best wr in the nfl dude!! he missed time last year…look at his 2018 stats! Dude can score EVERY SINGLE TIME he touches the ball!!! Guys like Michael Thomas are good too….dont get me wrong…Julio is the best IMO when he can stay healthy ( but those days are long gone! hes got the size of Thomas but as explosive as Hill)
A big play for MT is 20-25 yards…..a big play for TH is a 50+ yard td! Deebo and Kittle can do the things a MT or Devante Parker can do……NO ONE CAN DO THE THINGS T.Hill does!!!! If Ruggs can…….WE NEED TO GET HIM!
B4 you argue….think about this- T.H is putting up close to, if not more yards and tds with way fewer receptions
Time is my argument with the TH numbers. You have a QB in KC who moves around the pocket, is a threat to run which can slow the rush, and is superb at buying time for TH to get open. JG doesn’t buy time as well.
If SF can produce the time needed, it would be exciting to see what KS can draw up with someone with that speed.
Matt,
You make some good points, but I don’t necessarily adhere to the presumption that smaller WR’s are bound for injury.
Ruggs is 5’11, 188 lbs which puts him in the Antonio Brown weight category. Brown didn’t seem to have issues with his size playing in the hard hitting Central Division.
Tyreke Hill has done pretty well himself. And let’s not forget that it was his blazing speed that finally caught up with us in the 4th Qtr of the SB.
Sanders is gone and our fastest WR Mr. Goodwin will likely follow suit.
Having a speed guy like Ruggs opposite of Deebo gives us a great thunder and lightning offense.
We still don’t know what we have in Pettis, Hurd and Trent Taylor. If these guys still can’t get on the field our WR corps shrinks substantially.
Ruggs is my guy.
DeSean Jackson will be entering year 12. He’s smaller than Ruggs. I’m not aware of any injuries incurred by Mr. Ruggs during his collegiate career either….
DeSean Jackson played 3 games In 2019. Has played 2 complete season in his 12 year career. 2008 and 2013.
Antonio Brown has played 4 complete seasons in His career the last being 2015.
I don’t doubt or argue that speed is helpful. I just don’t think you lock up a 1st round pick with a fast small guy.
Devin Duvernay, probably a fourth rounder: great hands and ball tracking. Work in progress for route running separation and beating press coverage. Great blocker. you get speed plus 210 lbs. He can do what Deebo does running the ball.
I’m not sure I want to be as smart as you, Matt if it means getting so focused on the trees that I can’t see the forest. A 12 year career in the NFL tells you how much they valued his skill set if he only had 2 complete seasons. Antonio Brown was the best in the game before his metal breakdown. Henry Ruggs is more than just a speed receiver, and there’s a good reason he’s considered the 3rd best wr in a historical class….
12 seasons for DeSean Jackson and he is great with 3 pro bowls. Teams value speed. We don’t disagree. He and Jordy Nelson were the two best receivers in that class as it turns out. I credit his talent and work ethic.
He was a second round pick too though. I’d support using a second round pick on a smaller wr as I would expect to get 3 years of service out of that receiver on a 4 year contract. That’s the whole argument. A 5 year contract for a first round pick is too risky on a small light wr who isn’t staying healthy.
For all intensive purposes Alabama is an NFL team and schedule in the SEC. A season in the SEC is a good predictor of NFL durability IMO.
OBJr. 5′ 11″ 198 lbs.*
HR3 5′ 11″ 188 lbs.
*Has had a pretty good career thus far.
Lol Matt are you joking maybe you have to watch some tapes and read the scouting profiles better because Ruggs is playing bigger than his size.
Ruggs 2019 campaign had him dealing with lower body injuries starting in Sept and finishing with a withdrawal from the combine drills. Both the combine drill and the Ole Miss injury were non contact injuries. He also had a hip injury and concussion in the Citrus bowl.
You’re knocking him for playing wounded all year?
He didn’t play wounded. He couldn’t continue in early sept. He couldn’t play through bruised ribs in Nov. he couldn’t play through a hip pointer in the senior bowl. He was injured early and often.
What I said was small fast wrs are more prone to injury in the meat grinder of the NFL and that a first round pick for a small fast light receiver merits a poor roi. This team has several needs that can be filled by trading back and taking the best cb in the first round at 31. Then, taking a fast small receiver later in the fourth.
Matt, in the history of the NFL Combine only 6 wr’s have ran a sub 4.3 Forty, and HR3 was one of them. In Shanny’s offense a star will be born. Play action heavy scheme sucking the safety in, and leaving Mr. Ruggs one on one is a recipe for defensive disaster. The bottom line is his receiving talent doesn’t take a backseat to his speed. Probably explains why PFF ranked Alabama WR Henry Ruggs III as the 10th best player in this year’s NFL Draft on their updated big board….
I humbly defer to your expertise then Razor and look forward to seeing what you and AES see as supreme talent.
Expertise. Ha! You’re a funny man, Matt.
Matt,
You’re taking my comments on Ruggs a little to personal. I’m not denigrating your choice for WR.
I simply gave you my personal thoughts on the WR I like.
I’m far from an expert and confess that most of my pre-draft picks have been wrong. Guess that’s why it’s called a mock, which basically means only the FO office knows.
I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. I was genuine. My draft choices are much like throwing darts at a wall. I appreciate all of your opinions and feel like I’ve learned about a receiver I wasn’t well versed on prior to our conversations. I appreciate both of your insights sincerely.
Matt
Ruggs’ rare speed, large 10″ hands and 42″ high jump along with good route running puts him in the top 3 wrs category alongside Jeudy and CeeDee.
Again, I’d be happy with either of them, but I prefer Ruggs. I will trust in Lynch and Shanahan to draft the right player.
I wouldn’t be disappointed with Ruggs. I just think there are better options with higher ROI for this team in a deep draft at WR. You lose hand size, ball tracking, and leaping but you gain size and durability. You also fill an important need at CB.
I think it comes down to which position the team values higher. Cb or Wr with their current talent. There will be drop off after Ruggs but is the drop off more at The next wr or the next Cb? That’s the question I meant to pose by all of this. Couple that with durability concerns with any player that is 180lbs and I’m left thankful that this decision isn’t mine to make.
CB or WR? There aren’t any openings at CB that I’m aware of. When I look at the roster, there’s only one position with a glaring hole. WR. If they thought they needed a starting CB, why did they trade for a WR?
im with razor- i dont see the need for cb. Everyone freaking out about it like they always do at this time of the year…..but i just dont see it. Sherm played great, he gave up 2 big plays all year! EM looks like a long term starter….dude gave up one big play all year and everyone freaks out ! LMAO!
AW has shown promise….as a starter! To have him as a back up is not that bad….KW might be the best nickle cb in the league…..
Were does a rookie start? He dosent! So then the argument, if it is in the logical realm, is that sherm is GONE next year!!!!! Im telling you right now….if he’s even close to the guy
he’s been since he got here……he’s singing a 2 yr $20 mil deal!
WR is where we need a stud NOW! We can worry about cb next year! By then we will know exactly what we have in EM and AW…..and where sherm stands in the fight vs father time.
Thank you for sharing. Kerry Hyder is easy to root for. Great article.
Matt- in 40 career games Hyder has 10sacks, 15 TFL, 25 qb hits!! good #s for a part time guy…he will fit in great! i think we can forget about Kinlaw at 13 now….its gonna be wr……I hope its Ruggs!
I’m Feeing a lot more informed about Ruggs. It certainly would be exciting to see what KS draws up with that sort of speed.
No, Hyder will rotate with the Edge players. He is nothing like Buckner or Kinlaw, who are DTs.
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If Kinlaw is available at 13, the Niners should run to the (virtual) podium to select him.
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However, since the Jags traded away Calais Campbell, they will be targeting a DT, and Kinlaw may be picked number 9. Sigh, C’est la vie.
Ruggs is the guy at #13 Sebnnoying!
A month or so ago you wrote Kinlaw would be available in 5th Round, now he’s 13th overall? Sheesh.
He probably will be a 1st rounder, but you flip flop like a bass on a line about draft prospects and what various teams will do. The Forrest Gump of draft prognosticators.
#NoClue
I know you have no clue. Just like the draft pundits.
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The draft is an inexact science, and mocks are just mocks. They may list possibilities, but things change over time. Denzel Mims was a third or 4th round prospect, but after the Senior Bowl and stellar Combine, he may have rocketed into the first round.
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Actually, Kinlaw is now probably a top 10 pick.
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You know, life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.
Seb, Hyder brings versatility, if I interpret what’s been said about him correctly, the kind of versatility that Blair offers. So I’m thinking that we shouldn’t rule out some inside work too. I wish him well. Like Matt said above, it’s easy to root for him, and there’s a body of productive work. Another undrafted free agent who’s made good for himself and his family.
George, I will grant you the fact that he may play inside, but that article detailed how he slimmed down from DT to becoming a DE. Buckner played at DE at times, too, but few DL will take on double teams at 275 lbs. Bucknner is 295 lbs.
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I will also say that I liked his story, and am rooting for him to be successful.
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Now, if only we have a season…….;p
j
Just realized I missed your question about OT Mekhi Becton.
Biggest question about Becton is his weight and quickness.
Two reasons I doubt Shanahan will draft him:
1) Shanahan’s MO is drafting O-linemen in 3rd Rd. or later.
2) Discipline to get and keep his weight under control. (does he fit Shanahan’s ZBS)?
#13 Jerry Jeudy WR. I believe the Jets and Raiders will take Lamb and Ruggs respectively. 49ers offense becomes truly explosive in 2020.
#31 Justin Madubuike DT.
#156 Michael Ojemudia CB.
#176 Justin Herron OG.
#210 Tanner Muse S.
#217 Charlie Heck OT.
#245 La’Darius Hamilton DE.
#31 *Trade* Giants send their Round 2 Pick 16 (48), Round 3 Pick 4 (68) and Round 4 Pick 14 (120) to the 49ers
#48 Blacklock, Ross, DT, TCU
Perfect fit for what Kocurek wants in a 3t.
Indeed, Blacklock does seem like a natural fit for this modified 3T or should I say “Wide 3” technique, with his above average agility, get off, and ability to fire through a gap and get into the offensive backfield in a hurry, but will he last until the 48th pick, Razor? Maybe, considering he did suffer a torn achillies in 2018.
And BTW, gotta give Kocurek a lot of credit for unlocking Armstead’s potential, am I right? Yet another example of why system fit matters. Plus, let’s face it …. Kocurek is a maniac, and there’s no doubt that guys feed off of his energy.
The NYG traded their #68 pick to the Jets.
Also the #48 and #68 are worth 670 points and #31 is worth 600. They likely wouldn’t offer #120 in that scenario.
Don’t the NYG have #36 in the second round?
CFC
NFL trade value chart
https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=NYJ
Yep. I’m very familiar with it.
I was giving Razor a hard time for saying Giants when he meant the Jets. The values I listed were from the trade chart.
CFC, I got that trade offer from the Giants in my mock draft on FirstPick.
*I wanted to see if I could get Blacklock in round 2.
The picks you listed are all owned by the Jets.
Lol, my bad then. Instead of Gettleman it was Douglas I was talking to.?
I’d prefer to trade back from #31 too but I’ll be taking a Guard in the second.
Trade down for Cesar Ruiz?
If they don’t think they can rely on Richburg coming back then sure, Ruiz would be a solid pick. They might also go G and then I like Robert Hunt. He played tackle but I think he’ll be a guard in the NFL.
I do not think a center is a critical need now, since they re-signed Garland.
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However, I think both Ruiz and Cushenberry could move to guard. They could still be center, if Richberg has any setbacks on his knee. Garland could start, or be an ample backup.
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Compton may have replaced Person, but some have said that Compton is marginal, at best.
Scooter’s, Matt Peart from Connecticut is a late round prospect they could have interest in too.
Razor’s trade…That’s too much for #31…more like Rd 2-#48 and their Rd 3- #79.
Maybe trade down from #13 with MIN. for their Rd 1-#25, Rd 2-#58, Rd 3-#89.. So they can get a CB or OL they want bad higher up in the 1st Rd.
At #25 the 49ers can get OT Austin Jackson 6’6″ 305lbs. KS likes that size with quick feet, he can take over for Staley. There’s McG but Person is gone and Brunskill is going to compete to start with a couple others so the OL needs to be solid, not in flux.
At #31 they can get WR Justin Jefferson 6’2″ 202lbs. runs a 4.43 from LSU…..At #58 they can get their 3T in Neville Gallimore 6-2 310lbs, runs a 4.76 40 and squats 800 lbs. and Very disruptive and fires through the gap into the backfield quick.
Yeah, Razor got confused with the Jets picks, lol. I agree with your ideas, they need the extra picks. Maybe package CJ and the 7th rd picks to move up for a pick in the 6th round. Maybe with JAX since Foles left.
Jeudy looks like a First Down Machine IMO.
Any 1st rd WR will do now that WR E. Sanders just left for N.O. worth $16M up to $19M…Pass!!
I think they should trade down to around #25 for WR Higgins, Jefferson, Reagor and pick up another 2nd and 3rd picks and they still have #31.
1. The 49ers didn’t choose Armstead over Buckner. If they did the fans would be upset. However, the fans know the 49ers chose Armstead, Ward and a 1st over, Buckner and whatever Armstead could bring back.
2. Yes, the team is worse with the loss of Buckner but no Buckner is not clearly the 2nd best DT in the league… there is Donald and about 5 to 8 guys fighting for the 2nd best DT spot. Atkins, Cox, Jones, Jarret, Rankins. Heyward, Clark. And we have yet to see who will be added to this roster in the draft or later stages of free agency.
3. Brady vs Jimmy – Jimmy is better than Brady right now, Brady was actually below replacement level on his open throw accuracy and that was in an offense he knows. Additionally, I don’t think Brady would have gotten this team to the Superbowl last year, as last time I saw him he was shut down by a bottom tier pass defense. So, I don’t think fans think its all about the future, they know Jimmy can take this team to the Superbowl and if he improves at all he can win it. Brady has to “Win” the superbowl, for the move to be worth it, and I don’t even think he could get them there.
We need a 3rd round pick so we can draft Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic.
We can still get him. :)
Seb, will tell you he we can bundle 2 of our practice squad guys for a 3rd :).
Mike Person started 14 games. Tevin Coleman started 11 games, and started in the SB. Witherspoon started 12 of 14 games in 2018, and he started 8 of 10 games last season. KS thinks Goodwin is so valuable, they will not cut him. In the early part of the season, Goodwin played in 9 games, and started 6 games.
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You are unclear of the concept. Players who start games are not scrubs. ;p
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I wanted the Falcons or Broncos to trade for Coleman, but they signed Gurley and Gordon, so that possible trade is improbable. At least I recognized that both the Falcons and Broncos needed to bolster their RB position. Now, the trade back with the Chargers may be more feasible, because they need a RB, and will want to leapfrog in front of the Chiefs, who may be wanting to draft a RB at 32. The Niners could trade back 6 spots, and get second(37) and 4th round(112) picks. It balances out exactly on the TVC.
Shshsh that’s too many facts for Cohn. Grant doesn’t like facts. He likes to disagree with what the 49ers do. He likes to hate on jimmy, because he is jealous of men who are actually successful at their profession unlike him. I think the biggest thing we are missing with jimmy is the fact that he is coming off the acl. Think about what deshaun Watson looked like a year ago. He was pretty darn bad to start the year and finished strong just like jimmy. Deshaun was also horrific at home against Andrew luck in the playoffs. It takes time. I don’t understand why people are so against a man getting a chance. Let us judge after next year. The sample size will be big enough.
Also this implication from Cohn that jimmy is stupid is just false. If you go watch his 5-0 start with the niners and his first two games with the pats, he consistently gets through his progressions. Belichick would not have loved a dumb quarterback. Part of the issue all the motions in Kyle’s offense. New England quarterbacks rely on one or 2 shifts pre snap that indicate the coverage and where they should go with the football. That is why Brady gets rid of the ball so quickly. When you run an offense with motion, the entire alignment of a defense changes thus your pre snap information is limited. This is a tough change for any quarterback which is why Brady would not have fit our system. Matt Ryan struggled with this in their first year. Kyle’s quarterbacks generally tend to throw more picks especially in their first year with him because of this.
pot/kettle- you make some good points! I like your take on Cohn too! The ego on this guy is something else…..the evidence has been there in his writing….but listening to the pod cast….it becomes clear as day! He thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room “cuz he has a degree from UCLA…..dosent matter if you make more $$ than him…..your either a dumb jock or a ” high level loser”!!! LMAO
You cant even understand the guy in his own pod cast ‘ cuz he dosent even have a “grown man voice” lmao!
His vocal cords havent hit puberty yet!!! either that ….and/ or they’re stunted from spending years alone living in Lowell’s basement…..void of human contact!
You guys are so dumb. You throw barbs at someone that you thoroughly enjoy. Why do have to agree with everything that entertains you? If I acted like you, I’d be like “F%4# Anthony Hopkins! Doctor Lector is such terrible human being” .
hey Brian, i dont like grant! I like %90 of the people that post on here! Grant is like the arrogant door man at a club……you go because you like the ppl in the CLUB! you kinda despise the door man…but you tolerate him to gain access to the club!
Shoup
Well stated and I agree. Especially your evaluation of both Brady and JG.
Haven’t listened to the podcast, but if Grant said Buck is clearly the 2nd best DT in the NFL then yeah, I agree, that’s a leap. I really like Buckner. He’s a very good, consistent player. He is among a group of guys that could be argued as one of the top 5 at the position. He has been the 49ers best player on D for a few years (though Bosa I think would have surpassed him in the near future, if not already). But I have never thought he was a game plan wrecker. More a guy you need to account for on every play, and even then will still have his share of wins. I have to say, and this is not just me downplaying things in light of the trade, I had actually been a little worried about paying top dollar to keep him as I thought he was a guy you’d pay like he’s a game wrecker and he’d never quite play up to that.
Exactly.
I like Buckner a lot, and he’s in that conversation for the second best DT because of his consistency.
A complete game wrecker he is not, and that is not really a knock on him. It is really tough for DT’s to take over games as it’s easier to scheme for them. That is why Donald is so special, teams really scheme for him and he still wrecks shop. To me, if Donald is tier 1, there is no one in tier 2, and around 8 guys in tier 3. The Gap is that big.
I don’t follow Grant’s stuff much, and so I don’t know if he has mentioned this fact. Buck’s salary against the cap for 3 years is $56M, and Arik’s is $38.5M. This is the only number that counts — the salary that counts against the cap. That’s almost $6M per year. Can probably get a couple of veteran serviceable backup linemen for that money.
Very true, it wasn’t a simple “we like Armstead more than Buckner” case.
It was a business decision that allowed for more options.
Perhaps it won’t end up being a good one, but if they draft the right guy or get a few real players out of it, it could be a great one. Fans understand this.
No pro days. Players choosing not perform drills at the combine. There will be a lot of sleepers in this years draft. I expect agents to leak personal workout videos etc in the beginning weeks of April in an effort to increase value.
I think Buckner is a great talented player, but he has a few things going against him. First, he got his payday. Some players see a decline after inking a huge deal. Will his motivation still exist?
Let’s see how he does without the benefit of three other first round draft picks on the line with him. Let’s see how he does in a division facing Derrick Henry twice a year. He will have to play Baltimore. He will face another mobile QB at Houston 2xs a year. He will be playing in a much colder environment on the East Coast regularly. He is a great talent, but he certainly cashed in his talent for a tougher road.
“Let’s see how he does without the benefit of three other first round draft picks on the line with him”
He had nothing like that in his first four years, and was very solid, then caught on and had a 12 sack season with nobody around him to help.
And more importantly he never got injured!
Can’t say the same for Armstead in either of these points.
I’m sure he will be just fine.
Agree keep Buckner…..Arm had 1 decent year…..bad move kinda like getting rid of Gore….no loyalty
The more I read and listen to Eric Crocker, the more I realise he and I have similar thoughts on WRs (and to a lesser extent CBs). No idea if that is a good thing or not. But he recently posted that at 13 he’d be happy with either Jeudy or Ruggs, but not Lamb. I agree. I like the idea of what Lamb could be, but as Crock points out far better than I ever could articulate, his film doesn’t show a guy winning through NFL calibre route running. Great hands and body control, and really great contact balance, but he mostly faced awful defenses and against better defenses that offense designed ways to get him open. At 13 I don’t feel comfortable making that pick. He could be great, but too much risk for my liking.
Apparently, OBJ is available for a trade. According to the linked article below, the 49ers made the best offer last year, but Gettleman didn’t want to trade him within the conference. He’s already got a contract, so if the 49ers were to trade for him, here are the cap numbers: $14.2 for 2020, $15.7 million the next season, and $15 million in the next two years.
I wonder if the 49ers will try to trade for him. Posey seems to think that Kyle is obsessed with wanting OBJ. Given that this is a great year for college WRs and the 49ers have the 13th pick, I would pass.
https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/3/20/21187625/49ers-obj-is-on-the-trade-block-will-shanahan-try-and-get-his-guy
I don’t think the 49ers can take on his contract at this point. Possibly some moves they could still make to free up enough space, but would be tight.
As good as the draft looks to be for WRs, hard to imagine they will get anyone better than OBJ. If the trade package needed isn’t exorbitant, and the 49ers can find a way to fit him under the cap, it certainly wouldn’t shock me to see them make that trade.
If the 49ers did make this move, and it costs less than pick 13 (which it absolutely should for the 49ers to consider such a trade imo), that would make the Buckner trade look better. Buck was one of the top 3 guys on the roster, but at a position where the 49ers already have a lot of other good players. OBJ would instantly be one of the top 3 guys on the roster as well, but be cheaper and at a position of need. Plus the team would have a top 15 draft pick to play with to add another good talent elsewhere.
But I don’t think the Browns will be interested in a trade that gets them less than what the Vikings got for Diggs.
I really like Eric Crocker as a talent evaluator for DBs (he played that position briefly in the NFL) and WRs, and have been following his evaluations for 3 seasons. He doesn’t watch youtube highlights. He watches 3-4 full games selected at random. I like that approach.
Last year Crockers top receivers were Brown, Samuel and Metcalf. All 3 went in the second round and probably were the top 4 (along with Terry McLaurin) in the first dozen receivers taken in the first 3 rounds.
Crocker likes Tee Higgins and Brandon Aiyuk for the Niners late in the first or early in second. He doesn’t see anything special in Lavishka Shenault and Jalen Reagor.
I can see the Niners trading down for both the first round picks and getting Blacklock, a CB, and a receiver — all in the 20-50 range.
That would be ideal.
I think part of the reasoning behind the Buckner trade is Shanahan has identified a WR he really wants at 13. At this point I would be quite surprised if one of Jeudy or Ruggs is not a 49er next season.
When Crock said he liked Higgins or Aiyuk at 31 he hadn’t considered the possibility of the 49ers being in a position to draft one of the consensus top 3 (I also don’t believe he said Higgins was a guy he thought Shanahan would like, just a guy he really likes). Also, since that comment, he has said he prefers Mims to either of those guys (Mims is one rare player where I disagree a bit with Crock – I like him, but not that much, more a 2nd/3rd rounder for me).
His take on Shenault and Reagor is similar to what I had been saying, so felt pretty good that I wasn’t completely crazy when I saw Crock talking about them on his Twitter feed! He also likes Pittman a lot more than most, as do I.
As for last year, his top guys were also the same guys I liked. I’m not trying to suggest I know what I’m talking about, but it seems that the things Crock likes in WRs are similar to what I like, and Crock does a great job of articulating and explaining what my untrained eyes think they are seeing.
Ruggs wr
#31 Trade down for 2nd and 3rd
Round 2 Blacklaw 3t
Round 3 Terrell CB
Round 5 Bryant TE
That would make sense for sure.
Razor
Round 2 blacklaw 3t? Who dat? U mean DT Ross Blacklock TCU?
Yep, that’s the one. I’m starting to feel like Norm Crosby!
Whats that ya been putting in yer pipe dude? lol
Too much Blues Glues. ?
Scooter,
I’m sure you follow Crock far more closely than I do (I listen mostly to his podcasts during my commute, and now mostly while doing the dishes!), and I believe you are absolutely right with your takes about these players. You have a good eye for talent.
However, I am not sure that Buck was traded with a high pick receiver in mind. I can imagine Shanalynch being torn between loading up for another run for the Lombardi next season or (to quote Walsh) setting up base camp at the foot of the peak to make an annual assault. For the latter, they really, really would need to get a lot of good picks in the next 2-3 drafts for which they need as many mid-round picks as possible. Just look at the number of 1-2 year contracts and key aging veterans. They also have less cap flexibility for the next 2-3 seasons after this off-season’s contract reworkings. I won’t be surprised if they trade down to make good deals that involve next year’s picks.
Yeah, just speculation on my part obviously and I could be completely off base. I expect that as it got closer to working out a trade they probably had an eye towards draft strategy. Maybe that strategy was as simple as pick 13 gives them great flexibility. But my gut feeling is Shanahan has his eyes on Jeudy or Ruggs and didn’t want to accept anything less than a trade that gave them a pick where those guys are expected to go.
Ha ha it’s true Scooter.
I remember listening to his ratings and couldn’t help but think he agreed with you on almost everything. As to Mims, I like him a lot, but more because I think it’s obvious that is a hard worker with good hands and decent size. I don’t see him being an elite wr but I think he will have a long productive career.
This is why I would value him as a second or third-rounder but could understand him being a late first-rounder for those that just want a solid receiver with low bust potential.
Sanders to the Saints.
Finally the 49ers get a compensatory pick next year. With the trade of Buckner and a compensatory, we’re operating more and more like Caserio….
Of all teams the Saints! Come on man!
It’s a good move for Sanders. Kyle calls a few too many runs for him. It’s all ok.
Bon chance.
On Sanders to the Saints:
According to profootballrumors.com, it’s a two-year deal with a base value of $16 mill and can be worth up to $19 mill. Link is below. If that’s the case, I’d say it’s a very medium offer and suggests they’ve been ready all along to draft a starting receiver in the first round.
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/03/saints-to-sign-wr-emmanuel-sanders
Nice avatar. Guess you lost a bet. ;p
I did. But it was so long ago I forgot what it was about? Do you remember?
;p
Good for him.
He will flourish there I am sure and may help take the saints back to the superbowl, but that is not a contract SF could afford to take on.
Just listened to the Cohn Zohn. Lowell is a treasure trove of stories about the Glory Years. I would go to games, and focus my binoculars on Bill Walsh, just to watch the master in action. Bill was unflappable, and you could just tell that his mind was racing a mile a minute. I never saw Bill lose his cool. He would use biting satire to get his point across to the refs. While coaching, it seemed like he was in the zone.
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I am glad Grant watched that 1981 NFCC Game. Now, maybe he will understand why I have advocated for the Niner coaches to study the drive before ‘The Catch’. This was a classic game where one could see that the Cowboys had more talent, but the superior Niner coaching defeated a superior opponent. Yes, Joe Cool was on display, but he also threw 3 picks. Joe was amazing. He made it look effortless. Yes, BW was a stickler for technique, but Joe’s famous throw was made while throwing off the back foot while hopping back to avoid the pass rushers.
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I wish to respectfully disagree with Lowell and Grant. Tom Brady may have won 6 rings, but right now, he is not a superior QB when compared to JG. Brady’s skillsets have declined over the years. If they had gotten the opportunity to get Brady 2 years earlier, Brady would have been clearly better. Now, JG may have more upside. The Niners may focus on winning next year, but JL has built a solid foundation so they should be able to compete for a ring for years to come. We want instant gratification, but planning for the future takes vision, not blinders.
The Colts released Pierre Desir.
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/03/colts-release-cb-pierre-desir
C’est la vie.
Well, Free Agency changed everything. Many teams filled their needs in free agency, so my trade proposals are now moot. However, 3 teams should still be targeted- The Dolphins, Vikings and Broncos. They have 14, 13 and 11 draft picks, so they have draft capital to work with.
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It is tempting to stay at 13, and select a WR, but the Niners should be targeting a replacement for Buckner. WRs picked in the first round tend to become injured in their first year, because they just have not worked out enough to build muscle to withstand the sledgehammer blows the DBs are paid to deliver. It is better to get a grizzled veteran, who has demonstrable skills, along with proofs of durability and resilience. That does not mean they should reach for OBJ, who does not seem like a team player, hence his moving from the Giants to the Browns. His ego might become a distraction in the locker room. Emmanuel Sanders is a good example, even though he is now a Saint. He came to the Niners for a modest price, and helped elevate them to the SB, and was one pass from helping them win it. That veteran was well worth the price, since he immediately helped the Niners through their toughest stretch of the season, and into the playoffs.
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I am not sold on Ruggs. The Niners already have Goodwin, who can run a 4.27 forty. Jeudy is slated to go to the Raiders, who pick 12th, on many, many mocks. CeeDee Lamb is going first, in the top 10. The Niners should trade back, get picks in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds, and select a good WR from this deep and talented WR class.
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I wish to propose a few trade backs. Unless Javon Kinlaw falls into the Niner’s lap at 13, the Niners should trade back 5 spots with Miami and garner their 3rd round pick (70). The NIners should trade with the Vikings, because they want to get ahead of LCV, Jax and Phi, to select the next defensive BPA. The Niners move back 4 spots, and garner their 3rd round pick(89). The Niners trade back a third time, with the Chargers because they want to get ahead of their division rival, and poach the next best RB before the Chiefs do. The Niners move back 6 spots, and garner their 4th round pick(112). This adds up exactly on the TVC.
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This would accomplish the goal of getting 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks, by moving back 15 spots.
Maiocco on Solomon Thomas:
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I’ll be happy if he just CONTRIBUTES! With Buckner gone, he’s going to be the guy trying to filling his shoes and being a rotation player won’t feed the bulldog.
I hope to God that Lynch isn’t considering a trade for OBJr. That would be really dumb.
Razor
+10
Why do you say that? Is it the personality?
I can understand being concerned about whether OBJ has the right attitude to fit with the team and not cause distractions. He’s been a distraction for the Giants and Browns. Both teams have sucked though… I think on a good team there would be a lot less issues.
My main concern would be the impact he has on the young guys like Deebo, Pettis and Bourne, who all seem like pretty loose cats at the best of times. Sanders was a good role model for them. My understanding is that OBJ actually works really hard, so it isn’t that side of things I would be concerned about, but more about his impact on their demeanour and how they carry themselves on and off the field.
However, from a pure talent perspective, you aren’t going to find a more talented WR than OBJ. I know his numbers were down last year, but the Browns were awful for reasons other than OBJ. His per game production with the Giants was nuts. And he is exactly the type of WR that would go bonkers in this offense.
Yes, there’s a chance the youngsters in that room could be negatively influenced by a player that lacks leadership. You would be taking a step backwards from the step forward you just took by trading for Sanders.
No one denies OBJr. is one of the best route runners in the league but his salary is cost prohibitive on this team. Especially when you consider that you have the #13 pick and Jeudy is almost as good a route runner. Much cheaper too with less mileage. OBJr. has 6 years of wear and tear, and keeps getting nicked up here and there. I just don’t think it makes a lick of sense to trade #31 + $14 million for OBJr. How would we even sign our draft picks?
The team can free up money by moving on from Goodwin, Coleman and Nzeocha. OBJ’s contract is a bargain for as good a player as he is.
The problem isn’t finding the cap space to pay him. The problem is then finding the cap space to extend Kittle.
There is, unfortunately, no guarantee that Jeudy will be there at 13. Or that Jeudy will be as good as OBJ. Being a great route runner is just one of the things that makes OBJ one of the top WRs in the NFL.
OBJ is a cancer. Two teams already and he’s still only 27 years old. And he’s salary doesn’t work.
At #13 you take Henry Ruggs III. This guy is the perfect fit for this offense.
We need speed inside and out and Ruggs does both.
I do agree that Ruggs is the player Shanny probably covets, but if he was prioritizing route running, then Jeudy would be the guy.
Scooter, you can’t say the problem isn’t finding cap space, and then turn around and say there won’t be anything left for the heart and soul of the offense, George Eucking Kittle. Who would you rather, OBJr. or Kittle? Kittle all day for mine!
Your comment was they wouldn’t be able to afford OBJ plus draft picks. They can. In terms of Kittle’s extension, they don’t have to extend Kittle this offseason, and they could also backload it.
Short story is, they can afford OBJ’s contract, which is quite reasonable, if Shanahan really wants him. Given they tried really hard to get him last offseason I am definitely not writing this off – it has a non-zero possibility of happening if the Browns are looking to offload him.
Kittle should not show up to camp if the Niners don’t extend him this offseason.
The way he plays and the way he plays hurt, if I’m his agent I’m telling him to hold out until they extend him now.
The Niners have to extend him before camp. It’s the smart thing to do for your best player.
Prime is right, Scooter. You don’t want to drop a piss off bomb on Kittle by not extending him. The peoples TE deserves to be paid. Best show him you don’t want him on the field playing for peanuts anymore….
Scooter
If the 9ers passed on paying Sanders ~$10 Mil P/Y, I can think of $14,250,000 Mil. reasons the 9ers won’t sign OBJ. Not when there are player in the draft the 9ers can get. Not to mention if OBJ would set a bad example for the younger players.
Then there’s this: · Odell Beckham Jr. has told other players and coaches around the league that he wants out of Cleveland and has told coaches from other teams, “come get me”, per @JayGlazer.
Fine, they can backload his contract, like I said. It will be tight, but there are things the 49ers can do to make it work. It will be a problem, but hardly an insurmountable one.
Fact is the 49ers can add OBJs contract. Using his contract as an excuse to not get him, if Shanahan really wants him, is silly when you consider it is below market value.
I get you both don’t like his personality. That’s fine. No need to manufacture other reasons that don’t really stack up for not getting him.
GEEP, are you comparing Sanders to OBJ? Yikes. I like Sanders, but he’s a career #2 WR.
You just admitted that it would be a problem and at the same time accuse us of manufacturing one because we don’t like. It’s not personal, it’s the totality, Scooter.
1. Lack of leadership
2. Lack of cap
3. Older and breaking down
4. Best wr draft class ever and we’re in position to get one of the best 3 on a cheap 5 year deal
Yes, a problem in that it would be tight and might need some extra moves in freeing up space.
I understand the reticence in trading for him based on attitude and injuries, as well as this being a deep WR group in the draft. I have reservations for the same reasons. It is not the move I would make unless it cost pick 31 or less in compensation, and even then I would still have reservations. The cap “issue”, however, is a small hurdle if Shanahan deems OBJ to be the guy they need.
Regarding the draft, as good and deep as it is, how many of these guys are going to realistically step in day 1 and be great? Or be great even by the end of year 1? The 49ers have one glaring hole left on the roster – WR. They need whoever they bring in to be good. It is why I expect them to take a WR at #13. But it is a risk in and of itself – history is littered with first round WRs that failed to live up to the hype. Shanahan has already tried multiple times to find his guys through the draft. And at #13 there is no guarantee the guy Shanahan wants will be available.
So while I understand why you guys don’t like the idea of trading for OBJ, I also think you are being a bit unrealistic about the potential interest the 49ers could have. We know for a fact Shanahan really likes him. It would not surprise me at all to see the 49ers try and get something done.
Interest? Yes. #31? No. Flip it for a 2 and 3. Send the 3 plus Goodwin to the Browns for OBJr. That would get me on board, and that way the team is protected if he pulls a contract holdout or a hissy fit over having to block somebody week in and week out….
Right, so there is a point where you feel comfortable making that trade. And as you say, the main reasoning behind going so low on acceptable compensation comes down to mitigating risk around his personality/ attitude. Not the impact on the salary cap.
Good news is the Browns would be very unlikely to sell so low. Bad news is, from all reports Shanahan offered to trade a shirt load more than that last year for him.
His stock is down. Wasn’t that long ago that the Giants wanted us to give up The Bosa Constrictor for that little primadona. Then they tried for Buckner as part of the deal. Lynch didn’t even want to give up Buckner for him. Wise. The fact that the Browns have been shopping him so quickly after trading for him speaks volumes. I also don’t hear too many of his team mates having his back like ours did for Sanders. As for teetering on the precipice of cap hell, that’s only one piece of the totality of the argument against giving up #31….
This is a good debate and I am somewhere in between on this.
1. I believe that the niners do absolutely to extend Kittle this offseason, They could backload it or do whatever, but they absolutely need to make that the going forward.
2. Even saying that the niners could get the cap space for OBJ if they wanted. They might have to makes some tough decisions to do so but they could.
3. I don’t like OBJ’s attitude but he is absolutely a game changer that could unlock this offense and the idea that he’s a TO type cancer is a bit overrated IMO. He’s a diva who is immature but not a locker room cancer from everything I have seen.
Would I give up a 1 for him? Yes. Would it be the #13 pick? No.
My reasoning for this, is that while OBJ is an absolute game changer, this team needs to prepare for the future losses that are coming. ie, OT, C, DB, DT, and WR. In addition, WR is not the most valuable position to me, If I were to rank positions in terms of importance outside of QB, it would be
Tier 1. OT, DE, CB,… tier 2, WR,DT, C, S… tier 3 TE, OG, LB, RB… tier 4 FB.
Some players are so good they break tiers and some systems will prioritize different positions so it will change their tier level .. ie of OG’s are likely tier 2 in NO. \
On a side note. Many seem to think Shanahan will love Ruggs because of his speed. I don’t think that is as important to SF as getting someone that can reliably beat man coverage.
SF had some real problems last year when they couldn’t beat man quickly, as the interior of their line was bad (bottom third of the NFL if I remember correctly).
Amidst all the craziness that is coronavirus, one thing that hasn’t been discussed is the impact this is having/ will have on offseason workouts for players. This time of year is usually when players are doing strength and conditioning training. It is a really important period for guys that are entering their 2nd season, as it is their first full NFL off season strength and conditioning program. But is also important for all the other guys to for getting their body right for the rigours ahead.
No access to the 49ers facility. I imagine players have limited access to facilities elsewhere as well due to lockdowns, etc. Will be interesting to see what sort of condition players come back in. Will also be telling as to which players are self motivators.
This is exactly where the culture work put into building this team should shine.
Shoot, even players on league minimum can afford to spring for some gym equipment in their garage or spare bedroom. Their conditioning is on them. Jerry Rice ran the hill. Frank Gore tugged around an old tire full of cement. No excuses.
Yep. They can certainly afford it. But they have to be at least somewhat self motivated. So, it will be interesting to see.
Scooter:
* “GEEP, are you comparing Sanders to OBJ? Yikes. I like Sanders, but he’s a career #2 WR.”
Actually Scooter I made several points, but you failed to address them. Including the difference in their salaries. Not just if Sanders is, was, or will be a #2 WR. Would the 9ers got to the SB without him?
As you point out, there are things the 9ers can do if ShanaLynch (still) want him, but do they? Operative word “IF.”
There’s also the problem with OBJ’s attitude (self centered Diva), being a bad example on the younger player. Can you put a value on that?
Also: OBJ has told other players in the league that he wants out of Cleveland, even telling other coaches “come get me,” as reported by multiple sports writers! Obviously, it’s a little more complicated than who’s a #2 WR.
Q: Do you want OBJ? What would you be willing to pay him to be a 9er? What if he was an all pro WR? In 2020, OBJ will earn a base salary of $14,000,000 and a workout bonus of $250,000. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/odell-beckham-jr-14421/ I’m all for getting another a WR in the draft and paying Kittle. There’s also the problem of filling the DT position Buckner left. There may be a free agent Shana/Lynch want to sign?
You’re talking about an elite talent on a contract that is below market value. His salary is only a little more than what they would have paid Buckner under his 5th year option. The move would mean they effectively replace one of their top 3 players with another elite player at a discount, who is still under contract for another 4 years, and at the position the 49ers need most.
The main reason people don’t like the idea of trading for OBJ is his personality. That is fine and I totally get it. But when I see people arguing his contract is an issue I just don’t get it. Elite talent at a below market price – his contract isn’t the issue.
As for whether I want the 49ers to trade for him – at the right trade compensation, yes. Great teams have “problem” personalities and make it work all the time, including past great 49ers teams. Success has a funny way of making problems go away. But, anything more than pick 31 and I am out.
But it isn’t up to me – I was just trying to make the point that given Shanahan is known to like him a lot, and there are rumours he is available, I think there is a good possibility the 49ers explore the option. And his contract won’t be much of a factor in their decision.
And just think, if they trade 31 for OBJ, they can then trade back from 13 and probably have a 1st and 2nd round pick on top of OBJ (and possibly more). Replace Buckner with a high pick if you are worried about how to replace him internally. Can also address OL and/ or secondary.
Scooter
Your comparing OBJ to Buckner? As you say “YIKES!” Buckner wasn’t a cancer in the locker room, OBJ is.
9ers made a business decision not to pay Buckner Donald money, but then he didn’t tell other players in the league he “wanted out” and he never told other coaches to “come get me.” As I ask you before, what’s that worth? A self centered diva, that divides the locker room, is not a super star, he’s a super problem!
* “You’re talking about an elite talent on a contract that is below market value.”
We’ll have to agree, to disagree on OBJ. I believe here’s a reason the Giants got rid of him and it wasn’t because he was an elite talent. I hope the 9ers aren’t as foolish as the Brownies….We’ll see what the market says he is, if the Brownies trade him.
In terms of talent, yeah, OBJ is at least as good a player as Buckner. Probably better.
In terms of being a locker room cancer, it would be interesting to see just how bad a distraction OBJ really is on a well run team. The Giamts and Browns are two of the wprst run franchises in the NFL.
A question for you – if the 49ers could have gotten Diggs for pick 31, would you have wanted him? Did the Bills overpay for him? Another question for you – is Jarvis Landry worth having? Both of those guys have made problems.
Was Randy Moss worth having? TO? These guys were great when they played for good teams with strong leadership.
I wish they had gotten Hopkins and a 4th round pick while the Niners could have given up Tevin Coleman and a second round pick.
Scooter
* Q: “if the 49ers could have gotten Diggs for pick 31, would you have wanted him? Did the Bills overpay for him? Another question for you – is Jarvis Landry worth having?”
A: I believe it’s a proven fact that building thru the draft is the best way to build a team, not by a team signing free agents. But to answer your question about Diggs, for pick 31. When any player uses social media to complain he’s unhappy with the team he’s playing for and wants to be traded, I’d have strong reservations about trading for him. With respect to trading for Diggs with draft pick #31: No, not likely. Maybe with a 5th – 6th Rd draft pick on a cheap, one year Paraag team friendly contract, with incentives? But not before interviewing him and stressing my concerns! The same with Landry. Just my own personal opinion, but with respect to the 2020 draft, there are too many exceptional WR prospects, to be wasting resources on expensive free agent DIVAS!
Same question for you Scooter: Would you sign WR Antonio Brown? If yes, why and If no, why not?
No on AB. He is on a different mental level.
Scooter, that’s putting it nicely.
Scooter
* “No on AB. He is on a different mental level.”
That’s true Scooter, but how do you know that won’t change once you trade for OBJ? YOU DON’T and thats the problem. If he does it, why can’t other players?
BB and NE thought they could handle AB…..How’d that work out?
On that logic you should never trade for anyone. Never know when they might AB on you!
I think you are exaggerating how bad OBJ is. He’s a diva. He’s about himself. He’s immature. But he’s not done anything to suggest he’s about to go full AB.
Scooter:
And using your logic, the 9ers could end up like the Giants and Browns. Wasting $ millions on a disruptive diva they had to cut.
The Giants: A) New York Giants wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. made a point after Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott escaped a fine for jumping into an oversize Salvation Army kettle that he would have been fined for doing the same thing.
B) Beckham took to Instagram on Wednesday to say he was fined for wearing shoes in honor of the late Craig Sager that were auctioned for charity — and it still cost him.
C) “With his latest Twitter rant, Odell Beckham likely answered the riddle of why he was traded. If you don’t believe OBJ’s latest tirade isn’t cringe worthy, then clearly you have a case of BDS (Beckham Derangement Syndrome).” Not my words Scooter, the words of a NY sports writer.
The Browns:
A) Odell Beckham complains on social media about fine for uniform violation. “14 k for some pants that are NOT gonna protect me from anything … this shxt is ridiculous,’’ Beckham posted on his Instagram story.
B) Browns receiver OBJ, previously complained about a warning letter from the NFL after wearing his expensive Richard Mille watch during a game. (Head case)
C) Sunday’s report from Jay Glazer of FOX, that Beckham has told other players and coaches to “come get me!”
D) Sources close to Odell Beckham Jr. confirmed that the wide receiver did talk to other players and teams about leaving Cleveland.
Bottom line: I don’t see that much difference between OBJ and AB. Both were cut because they were a cancer and a waste of resources. We both have our opinions of him and we both know what opinions are like….and everyone has one! Rather than wasting our time, lets agree
to disagree and enjoy talking about the 9ers. Not some other teams problem?
* Division rivals Arizona Cardinals signed DT Jordan Phillips, a starter, to complement Chandler Jones and acquired WR DeAndre Hopkins in a deal with Texans. Both Cardinals games were close and with draft picks, they will be an improved team in 2020.
* The Seahawks split with the 9ers in 2019. With Wilson, WR’s D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, healthy RB’s in Carson and Penny, plus 8 draft picks, they will challenge the 9ers for the division title in 2020.
* After losing Buckner and Sanders, the 9er must find player to fill those positions. The Cardinals and Seahawks have dangerous WR’s. Weatherspoon is a question mark. Sherman’s still a top CB, but a year older and he did get exposed in the SB. The 9er’s need CB’s that can cover them if they going to return to the SB
E Sander gets to play with the Saints…good move by him….he will have DBrees tossing him the football
A couple of thoughts about the recent 9er moves.
1st–Buckner–I understand why the team did what they did. There was no real chance to re-sign him at THE PRICE THE 9ERS WANTED. That is important to note because signing him at the price Buckner wanted (deserved?) would have limited other moves. So the team did what they could do to maximize a current return. That being said:
2nd–Armstead–he is a good player and seems to fit out system well. But he is not the player that makes others around him better. He is the player that is made better by other players. The argument can be made that he was, at best, the 3rd best d-linemen on the team behind Bosa and Buckner. And I believe that a healthy Ford and Jones contributed to Armstead’s success more then the other way around. And his contract is structured so that after the 2nd year, the Niners can make an early decision to get out or re-do it. I do believe that the team is expecting more from DJ Jones next year as not just an early down player. And can the combo of S. Thomas, J. Taylor, and K. Street step up to be more then just rotational players?
3rd–also remember, C-Richburg and DL-Jones were on IR for the SB and both will (I assume) be back healthy. Also OT-Coleman, DL- Street and Taylor and second year CB-T.Harris will have a leg up on all new comers.
Overall- the team has changed enough so as to not stay the same and has given itself a chance to maybe improve. But… it has also kept the core together so that there is no question about what their ceiling is going to be.
And Grant, thank for giving us stuff to talk about here on your blog during these trying times. Please keep it going.
Everyone be safe, take care of yourselves and you families.
hey everyone! hope all is well:) just thought i’d share some thoughts to pass the time.
Buckner- it wasnt just the value/size of the contract….it was the cash flow/cap# in the first couple years! Paraag is doing contracts with low cap#s this year and next….then allowing them to balloon in 2022 because the cap will make a huge jump that year with the new tv deal…AAs cap number this year is $6mil….AA and Jimy Ward cap #s combine is about $10 mil this year!!!!!! That is the key! DB getting double that this year!! Not only did he want big $$$ he wanted it NOW!!! No team friendly structure. So based off of that…..i think it was a great move!
Draft-wr at 13 seems to be a lock. I wouldnt mind any of the top 3. I like Ruggs speed, wouldnt mind him. But this draft is very deep at wr….so i wouldnt be shocked if we took a wr later than 13…..we could take BPA at 13( more on that in a min.) and get a wr at 31…….or…..id love a trade with Miami- our 13 for 18 and 24 i believe they have….. That would give us 3 first rounders! even if JJ and CDL are available… i still like this move.
Weather we draft at 13 or move back…..if not wr……i could see them going DT or OL……..i dont think the value is ther for CB, maybe at 31 the value for CB would line up.
crazy moves- by crazy, i dont mean idiotic….i mean surprise! Trade both first round picks to move up and get Chase Young DE ohio state! i dont really see Washington doing business with us…..but if they get crazy and take Tua…..the Lions might make this move! If this did happen….i’d try to trade back into the late first round or early 2nd to get a wr.
Trade for OBJ….the rumors wont die and i saw a picture of him in elk grove the other day!? I wouldnt give up 13….maybe 31….but preferably next years 2nd or something like that! Then we get an O or Dlinmen with 13….
Draft wr at 13 and Johnathan Taylor at 31!! The offense would be great! I know we have a log jam of rb’s…..but one that size with that speed could put up HoF #s with that running scheme!!
Dont sleep on Oline. Everyone is thinking WR or DT to replace Buckner…..but we do have Hurd and TT coming back as well as 8+ guys that play DT! CB would probably be the next position on everyone’s list…… But Sherm is starting on one side and AW and EM are both young with lots of starting experience!
The draft is gonna be fun! I cant wait for it! We also could trade down for more picks…. i think there is a lot of good mid round talent…….but im not sure we have 7-9 roster spots to give out……but ANYTHING could happen!
j
* MIA = #18 and #26, not #24……https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=MIA
* Draft pick #18: CJ Henderson, CB Florida. 40 = 4.39s, B-press, 20 reps, VT 37.5″, B-jump 127.0″ I’d like to see his 3 cone and 20 Yd shuttle , but he didn’t do them.
NFL Analyst, Lance Zierlein: Silky smooth boundary cornerback with mirror-and-match footwork and the agility and athleticism to stay connected to routes. He has NFL recovery burst and the long speed to track vertical routes downfield. He has the twitchy acceleration to jump a throw and take it away if the quarterback lingers on the target, and he’s quick to wrap and finish after the catch. He makes mental mistakes from time to time and occasionally loses awareness from zone. He’s willing and capable in run support but needs better control as an open-field tackler. Henderson is a fluid cornerback with ball skills and burst and has CB1 ability as a first-rounder.
* Armstead: I agree
* “Trade both first round picks to move up and get Chase Young DE ohio state! lol, Maybe if #e(( freezes over?
* “Trade for OBJ” No way, don’t want him.
* “Draft Johnathan Taylor at 31” Shanahan drafts his RB’s on day 3, not in the 1st Rd. Check out RB Darrynton Evans, App St. Rd #7 at 9er draft pick #245
* “The draft is gonna be fun!” I Agree! “We also could trade down for more picks…. i think there is a lot of good mid round talent.” I Also agree….Can’t wait for it!
just an FYI-
Im not too high on Kinlaw or the other top DT at 13 due to some scouting reports ive read questioning effort.
Im not high on CBs at 13 based on scouting reports ive read about the kid from Florida on others behind Okuda…..claiming their ceiling might be a good #2 cb
I think the value at 13 is with wr or Oline IMO.
another crazy move would be tp trade up for Okuda, Ohio State cb…….if he falls to 5 or 6
What if Wirfs is the target because they know Staley plans to retire. Similar to the way Justin Smith went out.
exactly razor! i was thinking if we draft a guy at 13…he could play Guard for a year or 2 until JS retires…….but your right! JS might be ready to retire NOW!!!! And Lynch might have asked him to keep it quiet till after the draft!
There is at least 3 Olinemen i would take if they fell to 13
Razor / j
If the 9ers knew Staley wanted to retire, why resign swing Tackle Shon Coleman? For insurance?
With cap space tight, I don’t know? Maybe, but I doubt it. I do agree there are at least 3 O-linemen I’d like to see the 9ers sign, but not at #13, Top of my O-line list is Center Cesar Ruiz, Michigan, late Rd 2. Top OT is Tistan Wirfs, Iowa, but I’d be shocked if he fell below the top 10.
If Staley is ready to retire now he is doing the team no favours by not announcing it to clear up cap space.
Good point, Scooter.
scooter- that is a good point….but the context is- Lynch knows Staley is ready to retire bust asked him to keep a lid on it in order to not have the teams hand reviled before the draft. yes, its a reach….but if true…Lynch knows he has that cap $$ in his back pocket! Maybe it would go to Kittle on an extension……maybe its to pay OBJ when we trade next years 2nd rounder for him
Willis, Wirfs, Becton and Thomas…..all ranked in the top 15 overall at CBS
I think they look hard at Javon Kinlaw, because he is the most logical replacement for Buckner. Kinlaw is so good, they have to double team him all the time, just like Buckner.
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Looking at many mocks from the database, Kinlaw is slated at 13 many times, with a DB for the 31st pick.
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Since they signed Compton and re-signed Garland, I do not think they would go for an OL at 13, and it all depends where the QBs fall. This draft is deep in O linemen, so they could get a good prospect in the second day of the draft. 21 O linemen were ranked in the top 100 picks. 13 ran 5.1 or better. Some teams may want to move up to select QBs, which may let Kinlaw fall to 13, although he has been mocked in the top 10 many times.
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Wirfs in mocks has gone as high as 4 to the Giants, and since the Cards obtained Hopkins, they most likely would pick Wirfs if he were available at 8. The Browns and Jets may also be looking at O linemen with their first picks.
i hear ya seb…i think theres value at OL at 31. I dont question Kinlaws talent….but scouts have questioned his constancy….and that is enough for me…especially with so many DT’s already on the roster! I believe we need to do our due diligence ant give them a look- Armstead,Thomas, Day, Jones, Street, Moore, Blair……..thats 7 guys and i know we have more!!!! I mean geez,,,,,over 7 guys to play 2 spots!!! I think DE is more of a need IMO
Buckner was the best DT on the team. He won the most valuable player award. Those DTs on the team are inferior to Buckner, and will be hard pressed to replace him.
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Thomas has questions. Will he ever live up to his number 3 status?
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Day is still a free agent.
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Jones, Street, Moore, Blair and Julian Taylor are all injured.
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DE is not a high priority with Ford and Bosa.
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Kinlaw has questions about his consistency? Kocurek will whip him into shape, and get him to play hard from the snap to the whistle.
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Kinlaw commands double teams, just like Buckner does.
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My worst case scenario is that Kinlaw may go in the top 10. Then, the Niners should trade back.
I’m not sure where the “lack of effort ” label is coming from… I only found one scouting report questioning his effort.
Here are some quotes I found in his scouting report just doing a quick search.
“consistent motor to maximize his good natural gifts”
” and showing a constantly humming motor.”
“Always plays with a hot motor and pursues the football.”
His biggest problem is that he is extremely raw as he is relatively new to football, so his consistancy suffers as he doesn’t have the muscle memory or mental processing part down just yet. I don’t know that I would take him at 13… but I do think he would be upgrade over Buckner by the end of his second season.
Shoup
Lance Zierlein, NFL Analyst:
“For a player with so many elite physical traits, Kinlaw’s tape was much more inconsistent than expected. He had moments where he was able to use his size, length and power to overwhelm opponents, but poor pad level and an inability to harness his energy coming off the snap led to body control and balance issues that prevented him from reaching his full potential. He can be a disruptive force along the interior with that explosive first step and freaky physical gifts, but utilizing his heavy hands and plus length as a read-and-react 3-4 end might allow for improved technique, control and consistency. No matter the front, Kinlaw’s traits and potential could make him a solid starter early in his career.”
* I don’t think he’ll still be available at draft pick #13, but even if he is, is he a good fit for the 9ers as a read-and-react 3-4 end?
Many college players must step up their game when they become pros.
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Thankfully, Kocurek would be drooling over his elite skills, and would teach him to become a disruptive force. Look what he did with Bosa.
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Not many players are rated as highly as Kinlaw, and since he commands double teams, he could easily replace Buckner. All of the other positions are adequately addressed, but there is a big need to replace Buckner.
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Staley and Sherman will play, so they only need to groom their successors. Buckner’s loss means they have to immediately address that need.
“Read” is a four letter word in a Kocurek wide 9 defense. Penetration, penetration, penetration. Blacklock to me looks like he possesses the physical skill set they’re looking for at 3t, and you should be able to get him in round 2….
Blacklock- ‘Flashes menacing disruptive qualities as a gap seeker, but is just ordinary when forced to sit and take on blocks.’
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Weaknesses- ‘Missed all of 2018 with an Achilles injury. Drops head into double team challenges.’
We don’t sit and take on blocks. Not in this defense. There is no 2 gapping allowed.
If the 49ers decide to address the CB position at #13 and wait to get a WR with their second pick I think I’d pass over Reagor and Shenault and give Gabriel Davis some consideration. His route’s leave a little to be desired but not as bad as Reagor from what I gather.
You really think they would consider a CB at #13? They Constricted opposing pass offenses better than any other team.
Makes sense when you consider the depth in the draft at the two positions. Fairly large drop off from the top couple CB’s to the rest of the class, not quite the situation at WR however with high quality candidates still available into the second and possibly third rounds.
Sherman needs to be replaced.
The problem the 49ers face is they have one remaining glaring hole on the roster – WR (unless you believe the team is happy to roll with the same guys as last season, who they felt compelled to improve on mid-season). It is an immediate need, and I expect they likely feel they need to find a guy they believe can start in 2020.
At CB, on the other hand, they have three outside guys they believe in and a slot they believe in. The chances of whoever they draft at CB starting this year is reasonably low. There is a big issue looming at CB in 2021 with all these guys coming off contract, so they will no doubt add at the position, but it doesn’t need to be a guy that can start immediately.
Yep. I think their philosophy is to develop cb’s and get them a pass rush to help facilitate that development.
Yea, I’m not convinced they would draft a CB that high. We just saw what a pass rush can do for a secondary. From worst to first! RG was the weakest link on the team. They got 3 guys lined up for that competition in Brunskill, Garland and Compton. In a perfect world you’d probably like them as backups if you’re spending a high pick on OL. I think the only other position they need a starter at is opposite Samuels, and that’s why I still believe it will be either Jeudy or Ruggs….
I’m not totally convinced they believe in their CB’s at this point. Akhello clearly lost his job but are they 100% sold on Mosely? Sherman is ready to be replaced.
A large part also comes down to what are their plans for next year and how do they view the 2021 class of corners. They might be looking for Staley’s replacement next year instead.
Before the injury they believed Coleman was a starting OT in this league. He does well this year and I’d imagine he’ll get a chance to compete for LT next year….
They believed in their CBs enough to roll with them in 2019 when almost everyone believed they needed to upgrade, and continued to roll with them even when ‘Spoon got hurt. The CBs then repaid that faith by playing well most of the season.
Same cannot be said of the WRs.
Correct.
The CB class wasn’t deep last year either and Sherman is another year older. You’re also ignoring that the greatly improved pass rush was making the corners look better than they really were, that was illustrated when Ford got hurt and the secondary started to struggle.
It’s a unit that needs a new starter if not this year next for sure. They can probably grab a starting CB in the first and still get a starter worthy candidate WR in the second maybe even third round, can’t say that about the CB position in this draft. So if they do want to upgrade the CB position it would make sense to address it first and then double back for a WR.
Personally I want Jeudy, but if they do select a corner at #13 I’m not going to be shocked.
Grant, this CB over WR in the first was your idea. How about you give us your thoughts.
If there were no good CB prospects likely to be available beyond pick 13 I would potentially agree, but I don’t see that as being the case. They need a starting WR in 2020. They need starting CBs for 2021. Draft a CB with 31 or after a trade back from 31.
They didn’t trade for a corner. Who’d they trade for? A wr, am I right? Saints In Hell!
Razor
I believe Shana/Lynch wants to draft WR Henry Ruggs III with draft pick #13! But if not, will the 9er trade down?
Trade draft pick #13 to MIA for Draft picks #18 and #70?
#18: Draft CB: CJ Henderson, Florida
#31: Draft WR: Justin Jefferson, LSU
#70: Draft C: Cesar Ruiz, Michigan
* With Buckner gone, the DB will have to cover longer and both Arizona have WR’s that will make that difficult.
Ariz. QB Kyler Murry and WR’s DeAndre Hopkins, Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk and draft pick # 8
Sea: QB Russel and WR’s DK Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, David Moore and 8 draft picks.
I could see them trading out of #13 if there was an offer they couldn’t refuse.
Geep-
about the only thing im against in this draft….. Is drafting is drafting Cj Henderson with our first pick! The scouting report basically said theres a huge drop off from Okudah to the next few…..and that Henderson will be the 2nd cb taken based off of his 40 time……and that he MIGHT develop into a decent #2 cb……but that hell never be able to consistently cover a teams #1 wr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds a lot like AW and EM if you ask me! IMO…..we must come out of this draft with a #1 wr firt and foremost …..ans after that if we get get either- an Olinemen who could start one day- a cb to push AW and EM- Dline help
Yeah, I think Ruggs is the target too.
It’s not because of his 4.27s 40 either, though his speed is part of it. It’s because he combines that speed with pretty good route running, good hands, body control, contact courage and decent enough size to take the rigours of an NFL season.
It is also partly because I think Jeudy will be gone. If Jeudy and Ruggs are available at 13, that could be an interesting discussion at the draft table.
Scooter
* ” If Jeudy and Ruggs are available at 13, that could be an interesting discussion at the draft table.
TBH, I’m not too sure who I’d pick, but I think Shanahan likes Rugg’s speed and route running?
* Someone on the blog pointed out there are also excellent WR’s in 2021 draft. Buckner’s loss means the DB will likely have to cover WR’s longer, so it’s possible the 9ers trade
down and take a CB with #13?
The 49ers have left themselves in a position where they should be contending for the SB again this year, but outside of Deebo don’t have any WRs they can really rely on to produce at a high level (and even then, Deebo is only a 2nd year guy and we have seen sophomore slumps by guys the 49ers were counting on before).
Every other position pretty much is covered for 2020 at least, though there are obviously some areas that could still be improved and depth added. But in terms of having a very unsettled starting lineup, WR is by far the biggest question mark.
So the team isn’t really in a position to just wait to add a WR when it represents value in the draft, and certainly can’t put it off until 2021, unless they feel like taking a huge gamble. Admittedly they did that with CB in 2019, and it worked out for them so wouldn’t be unprecedented. But when you know your SB window is now it seems like an unnecessary risk to take.
In terms of Ruggs vs Jeudy, yeah, that’s a tough one if they have the option of either.
I think Jeudy’s route running will interest Shanahan a lot, and while his 4.45s 40 isn’t shabby he looks like he plays faster than that too. Pretty good with the ball in his hands as well. Jeudy makes a lot of sense, and I can easily see Shanahan loving him.
But something is telling me Ruggs may be the guy even if he has the choice between both, for the reasons I outlined above. Just seems like a Shanahan guy that will open up the field for everyone but is also a good option to take short passes the distance and work the middle of the field.
Whose got the better hands?
I enjoy the cohn zone. Good format and an interesting take.
One of the topics raised was about Bill Walsh calling plays to get his players involved in the games early to help with the big match enthusiasm/nerves. I think JG in particular showed like most people he was excited to play in the playoffs. This is where KS could have called more plays to get JG in rhythm and kept him there for the whole of the game. Instead JG seemed ‘cold’ a number of times. It was extraordinary that KS said he wouldnt have changed how he called the SB. The time to strategically gamble is when you have 2 1/4s to play. He should have let JG go for it in the 2 minute drill. Backed him. The time to be conservative is with 5 minutes to go. Whereas to expect JG to win the game with a couple of minutes to go is odd. Making higher risk plays with no time to recover your position. All of KS tactical calls will seem correct at the point of making them but I think BW’s strategy of involving the players early, keeping them involved and taking risks at the right point in the game is stronger. Genius play designers sometimes try to be too clever.
I think it would be interesting to hear more CohnZones talking about strategy vs tactics in football and how the great coaches differ form the good in their approach.
Do you think the 49ers go after OBJr.?
Matt Maiocco
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@MaioccoNBCS
No, I don’t because this draft class is steeped with talented wide receivers. For the #49ers to commit big cap dollars to another player makes it more difficult to retain George Kittle on a long-term contract. Right now, he’s got to be the No. 1 priority. https://twitter.com/Wisconsin49er/status/1241380712839872512 …
Maiocco does a good job but this is a bad take. First off if the Niners wanted to pay OBJ and Kittle long term they could easily. Cutting Coleman, Goodwin frees up almost 10 mil. At that point we are working with 25 mil in cap space. 35 million comes off the books next year with Sherman and S Thomas , Staley coming off the books. You could easily structure Kittles contract in a way that starts paying him top dollar in 2021. Not to mention the cap is going to start growing huge starting in 2021. I could be wrong but to let go of Sanders when he is only making 8 mil a year for 2 years signals to me that they could easily flip 31 for a Vet Wr. OBJ in my opinion is in play. If he is not I believe Ruggs is absolutely the target at 13. There is no way they take a corner at 13… Another stupid take by many on here. Plus CJ Henderson is not that good. Much more likely to go Kinlaw or Brown IF he fell then a corner. Niners also sniffed around with Hooper in free agency. Apparently were in the running. That to me is a CLEAR sign that they will upgrade from Dwelly who is at best a #3 TE.
I like Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic. We’re not drafting a cb at #13 and we’re not trading for OBJr. I agree Ruggs will be the pick….
This is a deep and talented draft. There may be 5 QBs taken in the first round. 20 out of the top 100 prospects are O Linemen. 18 out of the first 100 prospects are WRs. 25 DBs can run 4.5 or faster. 15 DBs can run 4.45 or faster.
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The Niners should trade back, and get picks in the 2nd 3rd and 4th rounds, with the top 100 being the sweet spot in the draft.- Players in the late third round that can contribute right away, and possibly start.
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Javon Kinlaw may go in the top 10, so I will consider him unattainable. Therefore, they should trade back. They may miss out on some really good players, but they could also fill multiple needs.
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2 later DTs the Niners should consider are Marlon Davidson, and Davon Hamilton. They may be adequate replacements for Buckner.
#13 should be Henry Ruggs cuz he is to good to pass on with his blazing speed, willingness to block and he’s not shy for contact ,and his big natural hands.
Can you imagine a Shanny offense with Deebo Samuel,Trent Taylor Jalen Hurd and Henry Ruggs that’s pretty insane for our opponents DC.
And just trade down from #31 for additional picks.
I found this earlier while looking for 10 yard splits from the combine.
https://steelersdepot.com/2020-nfl-scouting-combine-results-tracker/
1.43s 10 yard split for Ruggs. That is, of course, very fast. I believe that the fastest in combine history is 1.40s. Anything below 1.5s is very fast.
Jeudy with 1.48s tracks with what he shows on tape too. He looks faster than his 4.45s 40 because he gets on top of the DB so quickly.
I like Jeudy quite a bit more than Ruggs for SF. He is not as fast but he is so much better at creating early separation, which fits better Jimmy’s game. This becomes even more relevant given our issues in pass protection. Additionally, I think he is fast enough to get overtop if its asked of him.
I like Jeudy too but he’s got a lot of dropsies.
True, but he’s always open and he was option A the same field with Ruggs, who coincidentally was option C in that in that receiving group.
Ceedee is also good, but he is from a conference that has only read about defense on the internet, so that makes me a bit nervous.
In truth I am leary of all wr’s even the previous greatest draft ever… Watkins, Beckham, Evans, Benjamin, and Cooks were all first rounders.
Option A or option C. I don’t think you can go wrong with either at #13.
That was a great draft, but how many of the drafting teams are thrilled with those selections?
That’s my concern with Jeudy too. Time using Jugs should help fix it, but it’s a question mark.
Another mid round WR prospect to look at is Denzel Mims. Nice sleeper in the 3rd.
CFC
WR Mims has moved up the draft boards after his Combine performance. Looks like he’s now projected to go early to mid second round.
Mims was dominant in the Senior Bowl practices. DBs were grabbing his jersey because he was always open, and he showed refined route running and soft hands. I have seen him mocked into the first round.
GEEP says:
March 23, 2020 at 8:55 am
CFC
WR Mims has moved up the draft boards after his Combine performance. Looks like he’s now projected to go early to mid second round.
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Yea, found a tweet from Benjamin Albright that says he thinks he’s a 20-25 guy.
So if they wanted to target him they could swap with say Minnesota who also has two first round picks both of which that fall into the 20-25 range.
49ers get #22, #58, and #105 and they draft Mims at #22. They also get a 2nd and a late 3rd.
Personally I’d rather have Jeudy if he’s still there at #13 but the above scenario wouldn’t suck either.
In no particular order, DL, OL, CB with the 13th pick. Pick up the WR with the 31 pick and don’t worry about reaching. Screw trading back as Lynch/Shanny have shown a penchant for filling out the roster with hidden talent in the late rounds.
Undercenter
Shan/lynch traded for WR Sanders because they knew the 9ers needed him to get to the SB. The 9ers still have that need. With so few draft picks, the 9ers will likely trade down with draft pick #31
Geep I hear what you are saying, but this draft according to the pundits is deep in the WR class. Drafting a WR ‘might’ make the WR corps better but it also makes them younger. I have never been fond taking skill position players early in the draft. Games are won and lost in the trenches and the Niners trenches are suspect especially on the offensive side of the ball.
UC
* Who do you believe the 9ers will sign at WR, to replace Deebo Samuels?
* “Niners trenches are suspect especially on the offensive side of the ball.”
Yes and no. OG Person was cut and Brunskill will likely replace him. 9ers resigned free agent OT Shon Coleman, as backup swing OT. The only question is Center Weston Richburg’s recovery. Garland looked to be an adequate short term backup. If the 9ers don’t believe Garland is capable of being the starter, I look for them to draft a Center (Cesar Ruiz) after trading down with draft pick #31
Who else do believe the 9ers should change on the O-Line and who should replace them?
Trade back. Use the 2 first round picks wisely, and get picks in the 2nd 3rd and 4th rounds to tap into the second day of the draft. Follow the Larry Roberts strategy like Bill Walsh did in 1986.
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The Colts, Seahawks and Pats have traded back within the last few years, and have garnered many extra picks. The Seahawks turned one late first round pick into 6 picks, to help rebuild their defense quickly.
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There is more of a chance that a third round pick becoming a starter than a 6th round pick. The Niners had late round picks work out, because the roster was decimated, depleted and deficient, with many needs. Now, this is a rebuilt SB roster, and few third day picks may crack the lineup.
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Sure, they may just stick with the picks they have, but I remember that JL managed to make 6 trades in his first draft. He knows how it can be done, and it is the superior strategy because it will lock up more players under rookie contracts, which will help with the salary cap, and tap into the sweet spot of the draft.
I had a quick question regarding the offensive line,….. would moving Staley to the right side and having McGlinchey side by side with one playing tackle and the other guard….. extend Staley’s career and give them a dominate run side? Or would neither be suited to play guard?
dc9er
Why ruin the O-Line continuity by moving either? If Staley believes he’s no longer capable of playing LT at a
high level, he’ll retire.
The 9ers resigned free agent OT Shon Coleman to a one year contract, to see if he’s recovered from a leg injury. If they believe he has, he’ll be the swing OT and likely Staley’s replacement when he retires.
I am not sold on Ruggs. I remember the blazing speed of Cooks and Ross, and they have underachieved in the NFL. The Niners already have a WR with blazing speed in Goodwin.
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At Alabama, Ruggs benefited from RBs Josh Jacobs and Najee Harris. Other teams would focus on stopping them. Jerry Jeudy would command the double coverage, so Ruggs benefited from single coverage.
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What the Niners lack is that tall WR who can high point the ball. Tee Higgins, Justin Jefferson and Denzel Mims are 3 WRs who may be available at 31. Later round candidates include – Michael Pittman, Chase Claypool, Antonio Gandy- Golden, Donovan Peoples Jones, Collin Johnson and Van Jefferson.
J
* YOUR COMMENT: “The scouting report basically said theres a huge drop off from Okudah to the next few.”
After re-reading your post again today, I’m curious who’s scouting report you’re reading?
While I don’t disagree Okudah is the #1 CB in the 2020 draft, I’m not sure he’s that much better than Henderson.
* Former NFL and AFL cornerback Eric Crocker said He viewed CJ Henderson as the number one CB, on his CrockTime account….https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/2020-nfl-draft-cj-henderson-gators-best-cornerback-eric-crocker
Also, here’s Lance Zierlein, NFL Analyst opinion. “Silky smooth boundary cornerback with mirror-and-match footwork and the agility and athleticism to stay connected to routes. He has NFL recovery burst and the long speed to track vertical routes downfield. He has the twitchy acceleration to jump a throw and take it away if the quarterback lingers on the target, and he’s quick to wrap and finish after the catch. He makes mental mistakes from time to time and occasionally loses awareness from zone. He’s willing and capable in run support but needs better control as an open-field tackler. Henderson is a fluid cornerback with ball skills and burst and has CB1 ability as a first-rounder. “
GEEP- CBS scouting report.
I like Ruggs at 13 and maybe the cb from Bama at 31…or….
Oline at 13 and Mimms at 31??
How about Becton, Oline if he makes it to 13??? he fast for a guy 6’7 365!!!!! play G for a year then move to LT when JS retires??
J
WR Ruggs Check
Bama CB Trevon Diggs: A former WR with rare combination of size, strength & ball skills. A good Press CB. Inconsistent staying with downfield routes and long speed is his kryptonite, causing him to grab and hold.
Lance Zierlein, NFL analyst. I haven’t yet read what Eric Crocker’s said about him.
IMO: Probably take a year of coaching before Shanahan trusts him enough to let him see the field? Some are projecting him as a better fit at FS?
WR Denzel Mims: Excellent height, weight and speed with an insane catch-radius. A RZ threat that can catches the ball above the rim, but struggles to release and separate from physical press corners and doesn’t always use his body to boxout opponents for positioning on contested catches.
IMO: With NFL coaching, I believe he could become a dangerous “Z” receiver in a vertical offense. I think it’s wrong, but some NFL scouting report say his floor may be lower than some teams are comfortable with?
* A WR I like, but won’t be drafted by the 9ers. Notre Dame WR Chase Claypool. 6′ 4″ X 238, 4.42s 40,
Benched 19 reps, Vert= 40.5″ and B-jump 126.0″ Physical inside the route, adept at making contested catches. Has the size/strength/speed to muscle up CB’s on 50/50 deep balls and a vertical challenger outside. A possession receiver as a big slot, an outstanding run blocker and immediate coverage ace on special teams.
Carolina got a 5th for sorry @$$ Kyle Allen?
JP
Renews hope for a better return on a Goodwin trade!
Just barely listened to the CohnZone (at least part of it). I think its hilarious how Grant loves to talk about the fans being biased and overly-optimistic, which I would say is mainly true, however the funny part is that Grant is about as unbiased as CNN at this point.
The irony is that i would say those uber-optimistic are certainly not the fans that make up this comment section, due to the fact that they hate Grant. I think for the most part we are mainly realistic about expectations. So not sure who exactly Grant is talking about.
Lamb and Jeudy will be off the board by the time we pick. Ruggs may not be the route runner that Jeudy is but his hands are better. Tbh, there’s really not that much separation between the two. Ruggs isn’t just a speed guy. He’s a good route runner in his own right, but his hands are softer than Jeudy’s. That’s why I feel like you can’t go wrong with either player. There’ll be an adjustment period for Ruggs as he goes up against NFL cb’s, but his hands, speed and Shanny will serve him well. When he’s on the field a safety will be held to account at all times. Our offense’s lethality rate immediately goes higher….
The Niners just signed FA Joe Walker LB who played for the Cards last season.
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Hmmm, imagine the intel………;p
Hightower gets his man!
Tom Pelissero
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@TomPelissero
The #49ers are signing LB Joe Walker to a one-year deal, source said. Walker took a first-round pick’s job last year, started 11 games and had 65 tackles for the #Cardinals. Now, he stays in the NFC West.
363
2:31 PM – Mar 23, 2020
JP
After all the players the 9ers (re)signed, do you have the latest latest Cap numbers?
I do not. I’m still waiting to see the details on Compton’s contract.
They have about 15-16.5 million in cap space right now.
$19.5 Million, to be exact.
Albert Breer
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@AlbertBreer
Per the NFL’s internal cap report, 10 teams with least space as of this AM.
1. Chiefs $555K
2. Patriots $2.80M
3. Saints $9.02M
4. Steelers $10.64M
5. Falcons $14.28M
6. Packers $14.80M
7. Cardinals $15.71M
8. Ravens $17.42M
9. Niners $19.49M
10. Rams $19.65M
787
5:14 PM – Mar 23, 2020
TKS
Anyone else check out the new Rams logo? Very similar to the Chargers.
its the worst ! lol they call it a rams horn, but it looks like the chargers lightning bolt bent to the shape of the rams horn!!! this logo could suffice for both teams…..and not one person would care lol
Razor,
Ha! Looks like something Disney designed.
With a draft rich in WR’s, it’s a roll of the dice on who the 49ers will chose.
My personal WR pick would be Ruggs because of his killer speed. While Ruggs is a little on the smaller side, he has large hands which makes his catching ability much better.
I’ve been leaning towards CeeDee and Juedy, and either one of those two would be a nice addition, but when I think of which WR may have caught the long pass that Jimmy G overthrew to Sanders in the Superbowl, Ruggs’ is my choice.
The small fast shifty wide receiver has no durability in the NFL. The media and the hyperbolic fan both like to say how that receiver type takes the top Off a defense.
You have to have time through protection. IMO, it’s Better to shore up your secondary, add talent and depth across multiple positions, than add one player that will likely play 60% of the year and be gone in three. Ex: Minnesota Philly, Tampa bay. Don’t spend a 1st round pick at receiver, because that receiver will not survive 5 year contract.
Top 5 nfl receivers in 2019: Michael Thomas. 6’3” 212. Julio Jones. 6’3” 220. Chris Godwin 6’1” 209. DeVante Parker. 6’3” 216. Keenan Allen 6’2” 211.
Only 1 receiver out of the top 15 last year was under 6 ft. DJ Moore.
Don’t waste a pick on a frail undersized speedy receiver. No to Ruggs.
There has been large WR’s who have fizzled out like Benjamin, Funches and Green. These guys were the talk of the draft not very long ago because of their great size and measurables. Benjamin and Funches had a small window of success, but Green couldn’t even get on the field.
Ruggs’ speed gives him a special dynamic that can’t be created because it’s a gift. This gift reminds me of a 7′ basketball player. There are some dynamics that can’t be taught.
matt- Tyreek Hill is the best wr in the nfl dude!! he missed time last year…look at his 2018 stats! Dude can score EVERY SINGLE TIME he touches the ball!!! Guys like Michael Thomas are good too….dont get me wrong…Julio is the best IMO when he can stay healthy ( but those days are long gone! hes got the size of Thomas but as explosive as Hill)
A big play for MT is 20-25 yards…..a big play for TH is a 50+ yard td! Deebo and Kittle can do the things a MT or Devante Parker can do……NO ONE CAN DO THE THINGS T.Hill does!!!! If Ruggs can…….WE NEED TO GET HIM!
B4 you argue….think about this- T.H is putting up close to, if not more yards and tds with way fewer receptions
matty my boy- dug up 2018 stats for ya-
player – rec. – yards – avg. – td – 20+ – 40+ – fum
Thomas -125 – 1,405 – 11.2 -9 – 17 – 2 – 2
Hill – 87 – 1,479 – 17 – 12 – 27 – 8 – 0
Time is my argument with the TH numbers. You have a QB in KC who moves around the pocket, is a threat to run which can slow the rush, and is superb at buying time for TH to get open. JG doesn’t buy time as well.
If SF can produce the time needed, it would be exciting to see what KS can draw up with someone with that speed.
Matt,
You make some good points, but I don’t necessarily adhere to the presumption that smaller WR’s are bound for injury.
Ruggs is 5’11, 188 lbs which puts him in the Antonio Brown weight category. Brown didn’t seem to have issues with his size playing in the hard hitting Central Division.
Tyreke Hill has done pretty well himself. And let’s not forget that it was his blazing speed that finally caught up with us in the 4th Qtr of the SB.
Sanders is gone and our fastest WR Mr. Goodwin will likely follow suit.
Having a speed guy like Ruggs opposite of Deebo gives us a great thunder and lightning offense.
We still don’t know what we have in Pettis, Hurd and Trent Taylor. If these guys still can’t get on the field our WR corps shrinks substantially.
Ruggs is my guy.
DeSean Jackson will be entering year 12. He’s smaller than Ruggs. I’m not aware of any injuries incurred by Mr. Ruggs during his collegiate career either….
DeSean Jackson played 3 games In 2019. Has played 2 complete season in his 12 year career. 2008 and 2013.
Antonio Brown has played 4 complete seasons in His career the last being 2015.
I don’t doubt or argue that speed is helpful. I just don’t think you lock up a 1st round pick with a fast small guy.
Devin Duvernay, probably a fourth rounder: great hands and ball tracking. Work in progress for route running separation and beating press coverage. Great blocker. you get speed plus 210 lbs. He can do what Deebo does running the ball.
I’m not sure I want to be as smart as you, Matt if it means getting so focused on the trees that I can’t see the forest. A 12 year career in the NFL tells you how much they valued his skill set if he only had 2 complete seasons. Antonio Brown was the best in the game before his metal breakdown. Henry Ruggs is more than just a speed receiver, and there’s a good reason he’s considered the 3rd best wr in a historical class….
12 seasons for DeSean Jackson and he is great with 3 pro bowls. Teams value speed. We don’t disagree. He and Jordy Nelson were the two best receivers in that class as it turns out. I credit his talent and work ethic.
He was a second round pick too though. I’d support using a second round pick on a smaller wr as I would expect to get 3 years of service out of that receiver on a 4 year contract. That’s the whole argument. A 5 year contract for a first round pick is too risky on a small light wr who isn’t staying healthy.
For all intensive purposes Alabama is an NFL team and schedule in the SEC. A season in the SEC is a good predictor of NFL durability IMO.
OBJr. 5′ 11″ 198 lbs.*
HR3 5′ 11″ 188 lbs.
*Has had a pretty good career thus far.
Lol Matt are you joking maybe you have to watch some tapes and read the scouting profiles better because Ruggs is playing bigger than his size.
Ruggs 2019 campaign had him dealing with lower body injuries starting in Sept and finishing with a withdrawal from the combine drills. Both the combine drill and the Ole Miss injury were non contact injuries. He also had a hip injury and concussion in the Citrus bowl.
You’re knocking him for playing wounded all year?
He didn’t play wounded. He couldn’t continue in early sept. He couldn’t play through bruised ribs in Nov. he couldn’t play through a hip pointer in the senior bowl. He was injured early and often.
What I said was small fast wrs are more prone to injury in the meat grinder of the NFL and that a first round pick for a small fast light receiver merits a poor roi. This team has several needs that can be filled by trading back and taking the best cb in the first round at 31. Then, taking a fast small receiver later in the fourth.
Matt, in the history of the NFL Combine only 6 wr’s have ran a sub 4.3 Forty, and HR3 was one of them. In Shanny’s offense a star will be born. Play action heavy scheme sucking the safety in, and leaving Mr. Ruggs one on one is a recipe for defensive disaster. The bottom line is his receiving talent doesn’t take a backseat to his speed. Probably explains why PFF ranked Alabama WR Henry Ruggs III as the 10th best player in this year’s NFL Draft on their updated big board….
I humbly defer to your expertise then Razor and look forward to seeing what you and AES see as supreme talent.
Expertise. Ha! You’re a funny man, Matt.
Matt,
You’re taking my comments on Ruggs a little to personal. I’m not denigrating your choice for WR.
I simply gave you my personal thoughts on the WR I like.
I’m far from an expert and confess that most of my pre-draft picks have been wrong. Guess that’s why it’s called a mock, which basically means only the FO office knows.
I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic. I was genuine. My draft choices are much like throwing darts at a wall. I appreciate all of your opinions and feel like I’ve learned about a receiver I wasn’t well versed on prior to our conversations. I appreciate both of your insights sincerely.
Matt
Ruggs’ rare speed, large 10″ hands and 42″ high jump along with good route running puts him in the top 3 wrs category alongside Jeudy and CeeDee.
Again, I’d be happy with either of them, but I prefer Ruggs. I will trust in Lynch and Shanahan to draft the right player.
I wouldn’t be disappointed with Ruggs. I just think there are better options with higher ROI for this team in a deep draft at WR. You lose hand size, ball tracking, and leaping but you gain size and durability. You also fill an important need at CB.
I think it comes down to which position the team values higher. Cb or Wr with their current talent. There will be drop off after Ruggs but is the drop off more at The next wr or the next Cb? That’s the question I meant to pose by all of this. Couple that with durability concerns with any player that is 180lbs and I’m left thankful that this decision isn’t mine to make.
CB or WR? There aren’t any openings at CB that I’m aware of. When I look at the roster, there’s only one position with a glaring hole. WR. If they thought they needed a starting CB, why did they trade for a WR?
im with razor- i dont see the need for cb. Everyone freaking out about it like they always do at this time of the year…..but i just dont see it. Sherm played great, he gave up 2 big plays all year! EM looks like a long term starter….dude gave up one big play all year and everyone freaks out ! LMAO!
AW has shown promise….as a starter! To have him as a back up is not that bad….KW might be the best nickle cb in the league…..
Were does a rookie start? He dosent! So then the argument, if it is in the logical realm, is that sherm is GONE next year!!!!! Im telling you right now….if he’s even close to the guy
he’s been since he got here……he’s singing a 2 yr $20 mil deal!
WR is where we need a stud NOW! We can worry about cb next year! By then we will know exactly what we have in EM and AW…..and where sherm stands in the fight vs father time.
Niners signed Kerry Hyder, DL
https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/11/18/kerry-hyder-weight-loss-nfl-detroit-lions-breakout-season
Thank you for sharing. Kerry Hyder is easy to root for. Great article.
Matt- in 40 career games Hyder has 10sacks, 15 TFL, 25 qb hits!! good #s for a part time guy…he will fit in great! i think we can forget about Kinlaw at 13 now….its gonna be wr……I hope its Ruggs!
I’m Feeing a lot more informed about Ruggs. It certainly would be exciting to see what KS draws up with that sort of speed.
No, Hyder will rotate with the Edge players. He is nothing like Buckner or Kinlaw, who are DTs.
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If Kinlaw is available at 13, the Niners should run to the (virtual) podium to select him.
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However, since the Jags traded away Calais Campbell, they will be targeting a DT, and Kinlaw may be picked number 9. Sigh, C’est la vie.
Ruggs is the guy at #13 Sebnnoying!
A month or so ago you wrote Kinlaw would be available in 5th Round, now he’s 13th overall? Sheesh.
He probably will be a 1st rounder, but you flip flop like a bass on a line about draft prospects and what various teams will do. The Forrest Gump of draft prognosticators.
#NoClue
I know you have no clue. Just like the draft pundits.
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The draft is an inexact science, and mocks are just mocks. They may list possibilities, but things change over time. Denzel Mims was a third or 4th round prospect, but after the Senior Bowl and stellar Combine, he may have rocketed into the first round.
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Actually, Kinlaw is now probably a top 10 pick.
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You know, life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.
Seb, Hyder brings versatility, if I interpret what’s been said about him correctly, the kind of versatility that Blair offers. So I’m thinking that we shouldn’t rule out some inside work too. I wish him well. Like Matt said above, it’s easy to root for him, and there’s a body of productive work. Another undrafted free agent who’s made good for himself and his family.
George, I will grant you the fact that he may play inside, but that article detailed how he slimmed down from DT to becoming a DE. Buckner played at DE at times, too, but few DL will take on double teams at 275 lbs. Bucknner is 295 lbs.
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I will also say that I liked his story, and am rooting for him to be successful.
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Now, if only we have a season…….;p
After dissing WR OBJ, I feel I need to apologize after reading this: How could I have been so wrong?
https://brobible.com/sports/article/10-historical-event-odell-beckham-made-about-him/
j
Just realized I missed your question about OT Mekhi Becton.
Biggest question about Becton is his weight and quickness.
Two reasons I doubt Shanahan will draft him:
1) Shanahan’s MO is drafting O-linemen in 3rd Rd. or later.
2) Discipline to get and keep his weight under control. (does he fit Shanahan’s ZBS)?