Interesting statistical analyses there. This article seemed “hella” short though, and I was interested to read more about your take on the topic. It’s certainly an important one.
Gabbert is a back up quarterback, and that’s why he’s paid like one. I expect the 49ers to come down off their “buzz” and sober minds will prevail. Good write up Grant!
I disagree. The article contradicted itself in the final paragraphs. Dig a little deeper indeed. I could list the usual apologetic list: no running game, no line, no receivers, terrible OC, no game plan, but that would miss just how far off this article is.
Once again it appears the negativity has run off the necessary hits so this article is meant to garner a reaction. You spent the first 13 paragraphs telling why the team should keep Kaepernick then undercut the thesis in the remaining 5 paragraphs.
Simply put, the team is rebuilding. That is why the 49ers do not need Colin Kaepernick and the decision to keep him would only waste 10 million dollars in cap room.
No one is fooled into believing Gabbert is the future of the franchise. It becomes a public spin campaign. The organization must convince the fan base that parting with Kaepernick is a necessary step in the progression of the 49ers. Gabbert can hold the spot until that franchise quarterback is obtained. The ten million in savings can be used to solidify the line, improve the defense, or bring in offensive weapons.
Don’t be fooled by the ureteric coming from the front office.
I’d like to suggest to you Grant that instead of supplying an endless chain of negativity, you actually try and contribute meaningful insightful stories. They will likely generate just as many hits if not more than the current agenda.
If he’s cut prior to April Fools day, the dead money hit is just under $8 million. That’s if he passes the physical….
Then jokes on us?
First off all, the Niners can’t cut Kap prior to April 1 unless he’s able to pass a physical. Secondly, the team has almost 60 million dollars in cap space already. How much money or space do you think they need to solidify the lines on both sides of the ball? They also have 12 draft picks, so the team already has plenty of ammunition to restock the team…Finally what it boils down to is which QB gives the team the best chance for a speedy recovery? A rookie, Kap or Gabbert. Any unbiased person would conclude that it is Kap. He has a proven record of success when he is protected up front and has a HC with a legitimate system in place. Baalke should address the offensive line via FA along with one or two pieces along the defensive front seven. The draft can then address the spots he missed through FA and depth. This is the most sound way of rebuilding the team in short order and get the team back in a position to compete for the division title and/or the playoffs. Gabbert may be good enough to have the team be 8-8…9-7 until the rookie is ready to take over, but Kap is good enough to have the team 10-6…11-5 and contending for a deep plahoff run..
My view on the playoff run is this: If you are not winning super bowls you’re just hurting your draft position.
60 million in cap room is a good start but every year the team will need to replace players. So, saving 10 million in 1 season can be carried over to the next season.
Oh, I get it…Your saying 31 teams waste their time trying to win, because they aren’t winning super bowls. And therefore they hurt their draft position…. I’m sorry, I will never agree with that. Teams don’t play 16 games to improve draft position. Only fans of teams want that to happen… No wonder typical fans aren’t GM’s.
Matt sounds like Jed- speak; Teams are rewarded for doing badly, so the Niners strategy will be to lose so they get a great draft position.
I long for the Glory Years. Niners always picked near the end of the draft, but still were in the Super Bowl hunt.
Yep.. I agree 100%
Seb< I've called you out on this before, and I'll do it again. If you keep pucing this false narrative, you lose credibility. Just because you can twist words around and/or take them out of context, does't make it true.
Jab never said or insinuated that losing is a viable strategy, because the more you lose, the higher you end up with your draft position. Job never said anything of the sort. And pretending he did, only makes yourself look bad.
You can credibly criticise Jeb for any number of things, but this simply isn't one of them. As a matter of fact, the opposite holds more truth. Jeb has been on record stating that he expects the 49ers to compete for a Super Bowl every season, and that, even though it's a high bar to set, reaching for anything less is unacceptable. Some people have argued that this is not a realistic bar to set, therefore, it undermines his coaches. Because it's unrealistic, it creates an environment where, every year the 49ers haven't won a Super Bowl, it's considered a failure, therefore it unfairly sets expectations too high, while setting his coaches up for failure.
Her is one of Jed's the transcripts –
( http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/29/jed-york-hold-me-responsible-if-49ers-dont-win-super-bowls/ ): “It’s up to us to make sure we compete for and win Super Bowls,” York said. “That’s our only goal. We don’t raise division championship banners, we don’t raise NFC Championship banners. We raise Super Bowl banners. And whenever we don’t deliver that, I hope that you will hold me directly responsible and accountable for it. And we look forward to getting this thing back on track.”
Your are somehow (and I have no idea how your brain works this way) translating this quote :“8-8 and 5-11, neither one of them is acceptable to me. I’d rather take a swing like we did on Jimmy T and if you miss, the nice thing about the NFL is they reward you for missing. We have a high draft pick and that’s the thing that I don’t want to be drafting high, but if we don’t compete for championships, I’d much rather be drafting high and be able to add the top-tier talent in the draft to this roster. So, that’s where we are today. It’s not good enough. Trent understands it’s not good enough and we need to continue to add talent to this roster and make sure that we can compete for championships”, to mean Jeb thinks, because teams are compensated with high draft picks when they lose, Jed's OK with losing and believes losing is a viable strategy.
I am also including the notion that Tomsula, Forrester, Baalke and York all conspired when moving Boone from RG to LG, instead of sliding him out to RT, even though they believed moving him to RT would have made the team better, in order to lower Boone's value when he hit free agency after the season. In other words, even though Tomsula, Forrester and Baalke realize their job security is tied to how well the team performs, somehow they felt it was more important to influence Boone's value as an upcoming FA (even though there was no guarantee they would even still be with the team after the season, nor was there any guarantee Boone wanted to resign with the team as a FA).
IT"S LOONEY TUNES BRO, Looney Tunes!
For all the intellect you bring to this forum Seb, when you twist and distort quote's and phrases, you lose credibility.
I was being sarcastic and using an extreme example to point to the ludicrousness suggested. What would 1 more year of Kaepernick do to improve this team?
Arguably the best head coach in the last decade couldn’t win a Super Bowl with Kaepernick and one of the best defenses in the league. That team has been decimated and you’d have the fan base believe that same QB can overcome all of his deficiencies in 8 games after being benched to resurrect the organization to 10 or 11 wins?
I think that money can be better spent on more needs. If you can plug the gap until a more viable option is available with a man who costs 10 million less a year, I think it would be irresponsible not to do so. Just my opinion.
I have never seen a guy go from being benched, and unwanted by an organization, while also losing the locker room, to leading the same organization deep into the playoffs. Maybe my memory is bias.
The point of giving kap a chance to resurrect his chance here is, that it won’t be for 1 more year. I agree that why usehim for one more year if that year is to just bridge another qb, but if he plays well under this new system, then we have our franchise guy. Me personally, I would wage my money on RG3. I used his stays in a previous post. The man he was the year and a half he was fully healthy, would be special to Chip Kellys system. But even you can’t say, Blaine Gabbert gives this team a better chance to win than Kap. It’s all irrelevant tough if Chip looks at the tape and decides Kap is no good. Mike Shanahan made that assumption, therefore he’s not the niner coach. But I finally think that with our current resources, and multiple draft picks, we are in prime position to give Kap a team around him. It will help her his confidence back. And it should help him reap the fruits, of the discounted contract he signed
RG III could be an interesting dynamic in Kelly’s system. He’d also be cheap. That’s an interesting take.
Finally, an intelligent analysis…
Just cut both of them and cement the prime drafting positions for the next year or two. Had Tomsula done the smart thing this past season and played Hayne at QB, they’d have some pretty sweet choices in this draft, instead of leftovers.
Well that was a dumb statement, Hayne at QB, what are you smoking.
He just was following Jeds wishes to lose every game so they would be rewarded with the first pick.
I just don’t see Kaep sticking around. If the 49ers decide they want to keep him, I wouldn’t be surprised if he asks for a trade or to be released. This is a broken relationship, like RGIII at Washington. And once that happens it would be silly to keep him, as how can the other players follow a guy that doesn’t want to be there?
I was watching a Kelly passing clinic on the Eagles website. H frequently uses the term “NFL open” to explain why his quarterback threw successfully to a seemingly covered receiver.
CK has no idea about “NFL open.”
Kelly also talks about “repetitive accuracy.” CK has no idea about “repetitive accuracy” either.
Everyone’s obsessed with quarterback running, but its really the threat of the quarterback running that makes his offense work.
Good stuff Brodie. I’ll add what Steve Young referred to as “reflexive recall” to the mix. You’re absolutely correct about the “threat of running”. Of course, a QB needs to have “functional mobility” in order to create the threat of running. It’s remarkable, and really a testament to the viability of a Chip Kelly offense that a motley crew of immobile QB’s like Sam Bradford and Nick Foles were able to put up pretty good numbers DESPITE presenting much of a running threat. Just as soon as Chip finds a QB who displays repetitive accuracy, with the ability to to throw his receivers open, with a credible threat of running, LOOK OUT!
By the way I’m not convinced Colin can’t regain some of that accuracy. When he was playing confident, early in his career, accuracy wasn’t really an issue. Plus, he’s always been remarkably accurate throwing on the run. IMO, he also needs to stop doing as much upper body/arm weight training, and putting on so much muscle mass, and straighten out his mechanics in terms of his base, and his footwork. If he does this, and he dedicates himself to learning every little nuance of Chip’s system, he could resurrect his career, and be an improved version of the guy who took the NFL by storm in 2012/13. However, IMO he already has some stiff competition. I think Blaine Gabbert might be a great fit running Chip’s offense. If Colin rededicates himself, it could be an EPIC QB BATTLE in camp this year!
Ian Rapoport is reporting today that Colin is “more than open” to staying on board and competing to regain his starting spot in 2016! Which is fantastic news, IMO. Will he win a camp battle against Blaine? Not necessarily, but it sure will be fascinating to watch, and I think it bodes well for the future. However, were not there just yet. We’ll see how healthy Colin is by March 31st!
How much of this is Agent speak though? If I were trying to sell Kaepernick to the masses, I would be playing politics. Make the 49ers FO the bad guy would be agenda one.
They tried to leak a story to say he wanted to play elsewhere. Brandon Marshal ruined that. Now, he has to move on to plan B.
Why? Because if a man whose talent was made for the offense that is now coming to SF doesn’t want to play there, there are a plethora of red flags for any new negotiations with another club.
The problem here is that the team doesn’t want Kaepernick. The FO, the coaches they can say what they’d like. The team abandoned him.
Ha! No one saw Smith sticking around either until Harbaugh glued him back together….
Have you seen any big push being made by Kelly to keep Kaep? I just don’t see him wanting to come back. Do you?
Gotta wait until the combine for clarification on those questions Scooter….
What are his options?
Plenty of teams that need a QB. At this point I think he’d rather a fresh start on less money at a club he felt had his back than at the 49ers. Just my hunch, of course.
Where else could he start next season?
Broncos, Jets, Redskins, Browns, Texans, Eagles, Rams. Maybe even the Bills.
Don’t see it.
You said could not would. I think it is conceivable at least one of those teams may see him as a guy that could compete to be their starter. Which is exactly what he’d be doing at the 49ers.
Conceivable but not likely. Redskins will tag Cousins. Jets will sign Fitzpatrick. Texans have Hoyer and will draft a QB. Bills will stick with Taylor. Eagles will sign Bradford. Broncos will sign Osweiler. Browns and Rams will draft a QB in Round 1.
That is what is likely to happen if Kaep isn’t available. Things could easily change if he was available. All it would take is one HC to think they can take Kaep’s athletic gifts and build an offense around him that would replicate his early career success.
Of all the QBs you outlined at those teams, Kaep has had more success in his career than them. Considerably more than some.
So the Texans should prefer Hoyer over Kap?
The 2016 QB Franchise Tag number is $19.6M. Kaepernick’s contract in 2016 is for ~$15M, rises to ~$19M from 2017-19, and increases to $21M in 2020, with very team-friendly termination terms along the way. He is still unproven, but at least he has shown the ability to win in the playoffs, and his tools are superior to every other QB in the league, bar none.
If the 49ers want him, he can’t do anything about it. None of the guys Grant mentions can hold his jock, and yet all will be demanding greater compensation, with or without being tagged.
I agree Scooter. I do not think the marriage is salvageable. It now becomes a matter of what sort of compensation the team will be responsible for after he is cut and picked up by another team.
Yes. Get eyeglasses.
Razor
You have a penchant for exaggeration to say the least
Grant, I have two questions…
1) We know Gabbert’s failed completion percentage. Does Football Outsiders track failed quarterback run percentage?
I’ve always though CK puffed his passing stats by running short of the sticks instead of throwing a low percentage pass or throwing the ball away.
Both quarterbacks are pocket chicken. They respond differently. On 3rd and 8 CK scrambles for 5 yards. Gabbert throws for 5 yards.
2) My question… how much was it Chryst’s play calling, and how much was Gabbert’s check down tendencies?
Question 2) was asked often during he season. I don’t know that we’ll ever get an accurate answer.
I think Kaep’s average pass on third down being 0.7 yards past the marker and Gabbert’s being well before the marker answer that to some degree.
I got the 0.7 yards past the marker part.
I’m interested in CK’s failed 3rd down run/scramble conversions. To me that’s the same as throwing short of the sticks.
Six failed completion third downs + half dozen failed run third downs = 1 pocket chicken.
If you look purely at those statistics, perhaps. But integrated into that I think would be how long Kap or Gabbert held on to the ball. So Kap tended to hold on to the ball longer which allowed the receivers more time to get to the markers. Gabbert, OTOH, seemed to get rid of the ball more quickly and perhaps too quickly which contributed to his “before the marker” statistic. Do you know where to look for a stat on the average time each QB held on to the ball during a pass play. I know there are other factors that contribute to that stat (such as the severity of the pass rush), but since there would be a fairly large number of attempts for each, it should be meaningful.
I suppose the best measure would be “total failed 3rd down conversions” with apples to apples breakdowns, like yards to go.
I think question number 2 is answered by the way Gabbert threw the ball too quickly so he would not get sacked. However, I think he did not show patience and let them get to the first down marker, so it was more on Gabbert than the play calling.
There is no need to fear, UnderGoff is here!
I don’t think the Niners will admit it but if Goff slips to them he will be the pick.
Neither Kaepernick or Gabbert should be on a NFL roster.
I think the 49ers would grab Goff in a heartbeat. I think Goff will be gone by pick 7 though.
The Browns and Cowboys need a QB for the future, and are openly shopping the #1 pick. They recently said multiple teams have inquired about trading up.
This could be a ploy, but I see a trade happening with the first pick.
– The Browns sacrificing a day three pick to secure their targeted quarterback against leap froggers. The Titans would still get Tunsil or Bosa. It would be below “trade chart value”, but why not take a freebie extra pick and still get Tunsil or Bosa?
– Dallas is within striking distance of a modest trade-up. If the Browns took a QB, then Tunsil or Bosa or another really good player would be at 4 for the Titans. The Titans still get their man + even more/better picks.
– The 49ers have been huddled away in San Diego “laying in the weeds, sharpening their knives”, and could covet Goff more than they let on.
– The quarterback desperate Rams have two second round picks. They could make a move.
I think the trade up will cost well below traditional chart values. Trade ups involving top ten picks fluctuate wildly. In 2013 Miami only had to give up the 12+42 picks to move all the way up to pick 3.
A part of me hopes Goff is sitting there, just to prove you wrong. I know teenage girls that are built more solidly than him….
Wrong about what? I’m predicting the Titans will trade down. If I’m wrong, that’s part of the fun.
I listed the 49ers trading up as one of the four (less likely) possibilities. The Browns, Cowboys and Rams are more likely to trade up for Goff if one does happen.
But in the unlikely event Goff does fall to 7 I think the 49ers grab him.
“I think the 49ers would grab Goff in a heartbeat” Wrong, wrong, wrong. So wrong…; > O))
Razor,
I continue to be amazed at how little you respect Goff and continue to use hyperbole and rhetoric when describing him.
His weight is not an issue. If it was he wouldn’t have gone 3 years without missing a start. His height to weight ratio is pretty much exactly what Matt Ryan’s is right now, never mind when he first came out of College. Goff is heavier than Brees and Dalton are right now. He could play in the NFL at 215, but he’ll likely add 5-10 lbs just by being in an nfl training program for a few months.
You’ve gone all in on this anti Goff viewpoint. You could wind up looking really silly if this kid comes in and plays well.
The hype on Goff speaks to the lack of first round quarterback prospects. Spending a premium pick on a quarterback with a lacking arm, average athletic ability, slightly above average football IQ, and inconsistent sangfroid seems to me, to be a complete waste of resources. I don’t mind eating crow, so long as I have salt and pepper….
Again I have to disagree with your portrayal here. His arm isn’t lacking at all. He can make every throw and more importantly, make it accurately. His football IQ is very high and he was given more command of his offense than most College QB’s get. I understand if you think it’s more important to build other parts of the team first, and there is merit to that line of thinking, but you are so severely underestimating Goff it really boggles the mind.
Mind boggling is one of the initial symptoms of Whooping Goff…; > )
Mind boggling is one of the initial symptoms of Whooping Goff…; > )
Goff did throw 6 TDs against a mediocre Bowl team, but he also threw 5 picks in one game. He is not a slam dunk playoff QB.
Not to mention Seb, their Bear Raid Offense is easier than the Quack Attack Offense….
Whoop there it is!
Goff did have some good WRs, but that Oregon offense was pretty impressive, too.
Funny how Goff will go top 10 and Adams will go maybe 5th round, even with a good E-W game.
I could see Goff sliding out of the top ten, sitting in the green room with a look of bewilderment….
I could see Goff sliding out of the top ten, sitting in the green room with a look of bewilderment….
It’s possible, it did happen to Rodgers after all, but I doubt it.
I wouldn’t want to be the team that faced him afterwards if he does indeed slide.
Why not?
Because you could be facing an Aaron Rodgers situation: a top prospect dropping for some reason on draft day thus developing a chip on his shoulder.
Players like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, they don’t need chips on their shoulders….
No, but that’s what makes QBs like them even more dangerous.
I’m sorry, but nothing about Goff scares me. Just like nothing about Gabbert scares me. Just like nothing about Alex Smith scares me. All chips notwithstanding….
You just compared two top 10 picks to a guy you just said could slide. Bad comparisons.
Two top ten picks that were overdrafted. Gabbert should have been taken in the 3rd and Smith in the 2nd. I think they compare rather nicely, but what do I know?
They’re bad comparisons because they were taken in the top 10 regardless of whether they were over drafted and you’re comparing them to a guy who you think slides. The comparisons are only sound if Goff is taken in the top 10 and not if he slides.
Ok, but I’m still not scared….
Goff and Adams are the only two QBs I can see making some noise in the NFL. None of the other QB prospects scare me.
I like the idea of taking Adams and let him develop in Kelly’s system, but so far, I’ve been able to avoid coming down with Whooping Goff….
True, but you have been overCOOKed. ;-)
I liked Cook and still do, just not in the first round. I think he could be another game manager….
In still on the Cook train even though he played terrible against Bama. Then again no one was beating Bama.
He needs a year to sit and learn like all the QB’s coming out but if the Niners get him in the 2nd, it will be a huge steal of the draft!
Cook at the top of round 2 I wouldn’t be overly excited about. Trading into the bottom of round 2 for Cook would be exciting.
I’d be surprised if he lasted after the mid part of round 2
Goff shouldn’t start next season.
I agree. He has the most experience but is only 21 years old. I’d let him cook for at least a season. Let his body fill out and his football brain develop.
Very rarely should a rookie start Grant ,the pressure and frantic pursuit of the “franchise QB” is a symptom of a serious disfunction in the NFL.
Hightop, you don’t draft a quarterback in the top ten if he’s not going to start….
Only because the team’s drafting a QB that early typically don’t have any better option. If you need a franchise QB and one is available in the top 10 that needs some development time, and you also have a vet that can hold the fort until the young QB is ready, you still draft him.
If that’s the case, then I take one at the top of the second and develop him. If there is a franchise quarterback, he should be able to beat out the place holding veteran….
And how do you know Goff wouldn’t come in and win the job? The best option would be to have him sit and learn, but quite frankly he could come in and be the best QB on the roster from day one.
I could get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull’s ass, but I’d rather take the butcher’s word for it. If a GM thinks Goff is a franchise quarterback, I’ll defer to him. I’m just a hack who hasn’t come down with the Whooping Goff that’s been going around….
Razor,
If you feel others are too high on Goff, it’s only because you are so Anti Goff. Your view of Goff is not shared by any draft sites or analysts I’ve read or listened too, and doesn’t fit with the film I’ve watched which is pretty much every game he’s played in his College career. Even the article from Rotoworld you linked to didn’t have many negative things to say.
I like Goff as a prospect. I think his natural ability to throw accurately from the pocket and under duress is something special. I think the Niners should take him if he’s there.
On the other hand, I’m also ok with drafting another position if Goff is gone and taking a QB later. I like a lot of players in this draft and there are many who could help the Niners faster than taking a QB, but the goal is to be sitting with the best possible talent at some point during their rookie contract; not taking the one who can contribute the fastest.
We’ll see come draft day and subsequently throughout his career. I don’t care if you’ve known him since he was in kindergarten. No one knows for sure what he is at this point….
Rocket do you think Goff could start day one? With the 49ers?
Razor,
I’m not saying I’m an expert or know the guy personally. I have watched most of his games because I’m a College football – especially Pac 12- fan and he’s gotten progressively better each year he’s played. It’s the level of criticism you are directing at him that is confusing me as I haven’t read anything as remotely negative as you have been about him. You are right we won’t know until he actually plays in the league, but it’s strange that you are so down on a kid who throws the ball as well as he does.
Prime,
I think he could start from day one yes, but I would rather see him sit for at least half a season or more so that he can get comfortable in the system and cut down the chances for setbacks.
It’s not that strange at all Rocket. Afterall, we’ve seen the real experts underestimate talent and overestimate it quite often. You’re sure he has the elite traits of a top ten quarterback. All I see is a second round developmental guy who is going to need a year to be an adequate starter….
I agree Rocket. Whoever the Niners draft at the QB position should sit a full year or at least 12 games. Doesn’t matter if it’s round one or 5, let him sit and learn.
That’s why to me Gabbert is a perfect bridge QB. Cheap, young, mature and can be a good mentor. What’s CK gonna teach him, fashion and how to pluck a teammates girlfriend?
That bridge looked awful shaky to me….
I don’t understand what most of you think. Goff will not be the pick at 7 if there or not. This is not how Balke operates. He will not pick a QB at 7 or trade up from 7. The pick will come down to Jack, Buckner or spence.. Quite possibly Smith if knee continues to check out well. Balke will give Kelly his choice in the 2nd rnd. Watch out for Hackenburg who he has none since a kid. If not him Vernon Adams in rnd 4…
*known*
I’d be happy with Buckner, Jack, Spence, or Lawson….
No doubt but it won’t be Lawson either. A wild card could be ogbah in a trade down scenario.
If Scooter pounds the table for Ogbah, I would acquiesce….
Hmmm, I’m not totally sold on Ogbah, but I do think he’s the type of player Baalke will really like.
Or Jaylon Smith :-)
To me the biggest part of the combine will be the medical exams, follow ed by the weigh ins and measurements.
I want to see about Jack and Jaylon’s knees… And which colleges puffed up their players dimensions.
I think UCLA puffed up Jack’s dimensions.
6’1”, 230? Small, but does he have all the traits necessary to overcome it? I think so….
Yep, me too, though he may have bulked himself up for the combine. He looked like he played in the 220lbs to 230lbs range.
Jaylon Smith looks like he’ll be about what ND said he was.
Article says he is 6’1″ and 245 lbs. But here’s what I found interesting:
““He’s way above track in his rehab,” said Brett Fischer, who’s overseeing Jack’s training. “When I gave his stats to the doctor, he couldn’t believe it. The leg that Myles had surgery on is bigger than the one that didn’t, which is unheard of.”
Fischer is the founder of the Fischer Institute and the physical therapist for the Arizona Cardinals. He was handpicked by Jack to supervise his rehab when he made the decision to withdraw from UCLA in October and declare early for the NFL draft.”
Baalke – “I’d like to introduce our “awfully good” new slot corner. Myles Jack.”
“We had an awfully good interview with him at the combine and came away awfully impressed with his 40 time. We had his name sealed in this awfully good envelope, and were awfully pleased when he fell to us at pick 7…”
It will be interesting to see what Jack weighs, but his listed measurements at UCLA really are similar to Willis’ at Mississippi.
Four really good players that could help the team right away. Any thoughts on Stanley?
Needs to work on technique, he gets a little too vertical which allows the opponent to take better angles, pushing the pocket. He gets that fixed, and I think he’ll be top shelf. Might struggle early like Bam, but I think he ends up the better player. Love his feet….
Like a lot of young OL these days, do you worry about his strength to anchor?
Sure do
Me too.
I think Jack, Buckner or Spence will all be good choices, but if Ronnie Stanley is available, the Niners should draft him even with Davis possibly coming back.
Please, no more red shirt ACL picks. Niners need immediate help.
I have to disagree. If the Kaepernick situation has come to a resolution, and the team either seeks to trade him, or negotiates an injury settlement with Kap, I think GOFF is absolutely a possibility at #7. That is, if Chip see’s him as the best option to run his offense moving forward. They have an ideal “bridge” QB on the roster, in Blaine Gabbert, so they wouldn’t have to play JARRED as a rookie.
However, if their relationship with COLIN take a turn for the better this week in, and both Chip Kelly and COLIN KAEPERNICK are on the same page with Colin competing to reclaim his starting position this season, then no, I think the team goes in a different direction, and addresses the pass rush and/or inside linebacker, in round one.
I do not think Grant makes a very complex argument for Colin Kaepernick being the 49ers starting QB in 2016. While there is certainly some validity to the “failed completions” concept, I think it’s far more complicated than Grant’s article would suggest. And, while I do believe GABBERT needs to do a better job “pushing the football downfield” I do think there is a lot more to it than simply taking the easy check down rather than throwing to the sticks. For instance, some of it comes down to the OL not giving QB enough protection to allow routes to develop. Some of it comes down to schemes, progressions, etc.
I am actually shocked at how little substance there is to Grants article. No mention at all about Colin’s accuracy, and elongated release. No mention at all about “reflexive recall”, and how quickly a Chip Kelly QB needs to be able to process information? No mention about “functional mobility” whatsoever?
Come on Grant, choosing between Gabbert and Kaepernick is far, far more complicated than “failed completions!”
The bigger questions are; What will we see next year, the 2012 Kaep or the 2015 Kaep? Will Chip be able to accentuate his strengths and hide his weaknesses? Is Kaep going to be forced to be only a pocket passer? Will he have a decent O line? Will Hyde stay healthy? Can Baalke acquire good pass rushers? Is Chip totally committed to Kaep, or are his people skills needing to be brushed up? Gabbert is OK, but can he get the ball past the first down marker?
I really hope Kaep can be the Niner starting QB, because I adhere to the unwritten rule where a player does not lose his job due to injury. Kaep also gives the Niners the best chance to win. I bet the Broncos would really like a QB like Kaep, especially since their other QB could not run or throw the ball. Kaep, with that Denver defense, would be Freddy Kreuger scary.
If Kaepernick, paired with Kelly can be Jason Voorhees scary, I’d be happy. Besides, he can’t be killed….
Even with Kaep regaining his starting job, I hope Chip gives Gabbert a few snaps, and maybe even a series to keep him involved and contributing.
I also think the Niners should draft a QB, but not in the first round. Hogan and Adams are good choices, and I think Jacoby Brissett has the skillsets to be able to run the Chip Kelly System, too.
I really hope the Broncos take Kap,anybody please take this Guy off of the 9ers hands,really don`t want to see him on the field this year for the 9ers.
Next thing you’ll be saying, is you plan on moving out of the country if Kaepernick is the starting quarterback….
If the Broncos get Kaep, expect the Broncos to get a couple more rings.They won a SB with a QB who could not run or pass.
Because Kaep helped the 49ers get so many rings in his time here….right…
Well, it took PM 18 years to get 2 rings, so Kaep has plenty of time.
Yeah, and by the time he was Colins age he had 1 Super Bowl championship, 2 NFL MVP awards, 7 Pro Bowl appearances, 3 All Pro 1st Team & 2 All Pro 2nd Team selections, had twice led the NFL in passing yards and thrice led the NFL in Passing Touchdowns…
Now what has Colin done that touches any of that?
Well, Kaep has a 4-2 road playoff record, He has the record for the most running yards by a QB in playoff history, and the second most, too.
Kaep made it to the SB after 10 games, and played in 2 NFCCGs in his first 2 years.
Of course, Manning is a shoe in for the HOF. Maybe just by comparing Kaep to Manning, your are elevating Kaep’s status. Also, both have been to a SB, and both have lost a SB.
Is this supposed to be a ringing endorsement for Kap, seb? If the Bronco’s won a Super Bowl without a QB who run or pass, why do they need Kap? I’m confused.
Seb, I’m not certain you understand the concept of a valuable starting QB.
A head coach isn’t looking for a QB who can win on the back of the league’s best defense. A head coach is looking for a QB who makes all of the players around him better, and therefore can win a championship without the best defense in the NFL.
Over the past 4 years I received a lot of strife over this question and only guy was able to answer with reluctancy.
I’ll ask Seb the #7 blow hard. Who has Kaepernick made a better player? Who’s game has he been able to elevate?
The true measure of a leader is making players around him better. I’d like to know who #7 has made a legit NFL’er since being in the league?
Nobody. In fact he might have made some players worse. Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Torrey Smith and Anquan Boldin. Only for the simple reason he never got those guys the ball or was never able to throw them open.
I am laughing at how some people think Chip Kelly is going to come in and all of the sudden make Colin Kaepernick a once again good QB. Kelly’s system relies greatly on accuracy and decision making. Two things he has never done well, even with Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman.
I know Sebenayah is a big fan but being a fan of one player is masking his ability to see the true performance and entire body of work as a NFL QB for the 49ers.
Prime, if I recall correctly, you were the one who claimed that Kaep took the league by storm. With Chip as the HC, he may do it again.
When he was winning in 2012, his threat to run made the defense key on him, and allowed Gore to shine. Additionally, Crabtree did a lot better when Kaep was throwing to him instead of AS, and came within inches of winning a SB with him, and also returning to the SB with Crab.
Maybe you did not know this, but Kaep does not play defense, so he cannot claim to have elevated Cowboy’s play.
Blow hard? No, that is what you do when you bend over all the time.
FDM, I have admitted that Kaep regressed, but you and many other posters will not acknowledge that last year’s O line was so putrid, Kaep had to have 3 surgeries because of their turnstile play.
Seb he may again take the league by storm. That’s an 11 million dollar gamble for a potential back up. As a business owner would you take that chance or trade that asset in return to help the rebuild?
In 2012 was it the defense that carried the Niners or was it Crabtree and #7?
I’ll give you more time to think about who #7 made a better player. Crabtree was already established and his numbers only improved slightly. Now look at him in OAK, big difference and he’s the #2. What does that tell you? I’ll await your answer.
Crabtree went from the number 1 receiver who had double coverage while on the Niners, to being the number 2 receiver and getting lots of single coverage. Cooper garnered the double coverage, so Crabtrees job was a lot easier. Also, the Raider O line actually gave Carr time to throw. Last year, they gave up 38 sacks all year. The Niners, after the first game, gave up 28 sacks in 7 games while Kaep was playing.
Seb everyone was putrid last year. The point is Colin Kapernick has been regressing every year since 2011. You cannot deny that or hope that coach is going to come in and all the sudden make him accurate and a better decision maker. You cannot teach those elements. Geep Chrsyt dummied down the offense so much and even then he could not perform in it.
When Harbaugh was here he put Kaepernick in the best situations possible. Then with games on the line he choked.
Now I’m not here to tell you how to be a fan. I’m just saying be objective in your analysis. Football is a team game and a lot of things need to be good for everyone to succeed, but when you look at his performance and what is best for the team moving forward, is he the best option versus keeping a cheaper Gabbert and drafting a successor?
The 49ers are not close to being a playoff team. Continue the rebuild, acquire more assets and rid the big money deals.
FDM, I would like to point out another QB who was panned as a bust, but came back to win a couple SBs.
Jim Plunkett.
Maybe history will repeat itself.
Seb I highly doubt teams doubled Crabtree while in SF. He’s slow.
Do you remember Crabtrees comments about CK this past off season? A guy who lacked studying his play book? And a guy who would not throw him open unless there wasn’t a defender within 5 yards?
That’s what Im referencing. An oline does not cure accuracy or intelligence or decision making. Or the ability to elevate the players around you. You keep blaming all the other moving parts except the one that’s in between his ears. He’s not a smart QB. Kelly, an all pro oline or even Bill Walsh can’t fix that!
Sebnyah you keep making arguments based on hope. As fans we all hope but hoping does not make it reality. Do Niner fans want a Jim Plunkett story, of course. But the reality is this a dollar and cents decision. This is also based on indentifying Kaepernick future development.
From a contract decision it makes no sense to take on that risk if you believe he wont flat out win the job in camp. By no one making any gesture towards that, I tend to believe the 49ers are weighing other options at the QB position.
Prime, maybe you do not follow the Niners as closely as I do, but PFF in 2014 has Crabtree as the the number 1 receiver.
Kaep threw the ball to Crab in the 2013 NFCCG because he was single covered by Sherman.
FDM, I want the Niners to win. Giving up on Kaep just dooms them to rebuilding with a rookie QB since Gabbert is a 5-27 QB. No untested rookie QB is going to win a SB, especially with a 29th ranked defense.
Kaep is a SB QB. He gives the Niners the best chance to succeed. Granted, Baalke has to sign some elite FAs and hit a home run in the draft, but Chip is a definite upgrade at the coaching position, and with a healthy Hyde, the offense cannot do anything but improve.
If a team has an elite defense like the Ravens or this year’s Broncos, a great QB is not needed
Obviously, with a 29th ranked defense, the Niners are never going to win a SB unless the defense improves.
So you’re telling me that the Broncos would have won the Super Bowl with Bryan Hoyer or Nick Foles….or the Ravens would have won the Super Bowl had they kept Tony Banks in at QB?
Ravens did it with Dilfer, and he is a remedial QB.
PM almost gave it away with his interception, and the Panthers were only 6 points away from gaining the lead for much of the second half.
The Ravens told Dilfer to just hand off the ball and never throw. Hoyer had the third ranked Texan defense, but choked away the game because he threw the ball like the DBs were the intended receivers.
because I adhere to the unwritten rule where a player does not lose his job due to injury
Really? Then you shouldn’t be too happy about Kaep being the QB to being with!
That was on JH, and it backfired on him, so maybe they should adhere to that rule now.
Colin was benched because of performance, not injury. If his injuries were having such a negative impact on his game, Colin would have come forward and disclosed the injuries well before he fumbled away his job! However, I would like to see what Colin brings to the table in Chip Kelly’s system.
When Kaep was throwing the ball into the turf, I guess no coach, doctor or trainer asked Kaep how he felt. After the GB game, Kaep had a splint on his thumb. I guess he did that himself because he did not show up on the injury report.
Sitting on my couch, I could tell something was wrong.
And the pick 6’s against AZ, was that become of the thumb, shoulder and knee?
Or what about the uncovered WR he never saw open? Was that on the oline, Tomsula or the injuries?
Or better yet, running out of bounds killing the clock for the other team? Injuries, coaching or oline?
Behind that O line, Kaep had a pass rusher in his face before he could take 3 steps. On missing Torrey, the DB was reading his eyes and saw that Kaep did not look in Torreys’ direction so he cheated up to the LOS because he figured it was going to be another run into the teeth of the defense. Which it was.
When you are trying not to get injured further, running out of bounds is understandable. The coaches should have told him to just slide feet first, but forgot to tell him that.
Seb you are full of it! Either you are 15 yearsold or the dumbest football fan I’ve seen on here. I’m guessing you are just trolling now so I’ll wait to see what the 49ers do with your hero before listening to anymore of your blow hard arguments. Grow up!
Prime, when I mentioned that I had season tickets in 1979, and witnessed the Glory Years, you should do some calculations and realize that I am over 60. But I guess math is not your strong suit…..
Well then that makes you an old crusty fart who still has no clue!
Either way you are an idiot when it comes to football!
Throwing out insults is just par for the course with you. Too bad you cannot civilly and calmly discuss football without becoming infantile and absurd.
Remember, Kaep took the league by storm.
Have you been able to answer my question? No you just use lame a$$ excuses at every turn for #7.
You are not 60. You are 15 years old trying to talk like an adult. I’m wasting my time while wasting everyone else’s time clogging up the board. Too bad Grant does not see you as killing this blog. Sad!
Prime, I have tried very hard to answer your questions. Maybe I missed one, but when you throw out 20 questions it is hard to answer every single one of them.
Getting back to Kaep taking the league by storm, at least you admit that Kaep displayed elite skills. Sometimes, a QB will struggle when his O line is bad. For example- Indy. Luck was supposed to get into the SB because 2 years ago, he seemed ready to go all the way. Indy lost to the eventual champion patriots. Then last year, his O line sucked, he got injured, and they missed the playoffs. It happens. Maybe you need to stop hating so badly and take an objective view of the Niner situation and of football in general. Chip Kelly himself stated that Kaep is an extremely talented player. I think the previous coaches were brain dead because they did not know how to properly utilize his skillsets. With Chip, I see a coach who will be smart enough to see his potential, and Chip will devise plays that will make Kaep give DCs nightmares.
I also believe Chip is smart enough to be able to use Hayne properly. Maybe it would be best if they just allow Hayne to be a punt returner, because then he does not have to worry about routes or blocking assignments. However, I hope Chip will devise plays like a swing pass that will put the ball in Haynes’ hands while in space so he can make the first tackler miss.
Grant, interesting article but I think the starting QB will be the one Kelly thinks has the best mastery of his system and the accuracy/release to implement it, and I just don’t see Kaepernick winning that battle. Also I see them picking a QB in the 3rd or 4th round. They need the earlier picks for OL and pass rush. The team has some rebuilding to do, so it makes sense to draft a QB they can groom. For that, I’m betting on Prescott.
George
Good post…I think that Grant is throwing this out as a teaser….Every time they make an argument FOR Kaep, they bury at least a half dozen reasons Against him. I reckon we’ll all find out on April fools day….how appropriate….
Too many unknowns to have a firm opinion at this point. Will Kap tell Kelly that he’s determined to move to another team, because he hates York and Baalke? Will Kelly win Kap over? And once it’s decided if Kap will even be here, are we sure that he’s a better quarterback than Gabbert? Gabbert was a high draft pick who struggled early, then looked pretty good as the 49ers quarterback – so maybe he’s improving to the point he could be a better than average NFL QB. Is Kap going to be on the upswing or downswing? Last season he looked much worse than a couple of years ago, so maybe he’s on the downside of his peak. Or maybe with a better offensive line he can regain his mojo. Then there’s the question of – Kap or no Kap – will Kelly/Baalke draft a QB in the first round? Just too many questions right now.
Me, I agree that Kap should be given a shot – but not because of Grant’s silly stats analysis. I just think he has a chance to be good again – but it’s also foolish to write off Gabbert. It’ll all play itself out.
If there was a do over, Gabbert would be a 3rd round pick and Kaepernick would move up into the first round….
Wilson, you hit it on the head. I think it is more of a conflict between Jed and Baalke with Kaep, than Chip. Hope all can rise to the occasion, show maturity and move on towards a common goal.
Ck had his chance in the super bowl and the championship game against Seattle. Albeit Ck was the only one keeping us in that game.
He lost the locker room this past year and more importantly went backwards with football IQ.
We need to cut our losses and use Blaine while we rebuild the team… period.
It is far fetched to think Chip can turn ck around. Seriously people…really. I was a ck supporter until his meltdown.
Alex Smith stock was lower than Kaepernick, until Harbaugh started brokering….
Yeah, but given all Alex dealt with he seems more mentally tough than CK7.
Kaepernick played for the worst coach in 49ers history. How mentally tough is that?
Alex played under a shroud of bad coaches for years, Kap only had the one year.
I agree with the notion that Kap doesn’t want to play for the Niners. Maiocco details pretty well in this article how both the team and Kap can move on.
“Right now, it’s pretty clear from multiple sources Kaepernick would like to resume his career elsewhere.”
But I think CK is the wild card when it comes to CK7’s future.
Alex is playing under a great coach, and still flames out in the playoffs. Excellent trade by the 49ers….
That same coach is under fire for poor management of the time clock.
Sounds familiar….
x2
shawnrhod
Well said…Seb and now Razor are declaring for Kaepernick….how many more wasted years ? He belongs in the CFL…
Problem is, he’s still under contract and until he’s not, I’ll support him. That’s the difference between you and I. I’ll let Seb address you momentarily, right now he’s in a meeting with a NRA official….
Good point razor.
However, Gabbert is also under contract… yet you don’t appear to be supporting him?
Scooter, how many times have I said, “may the best man win”? The hate for Kaepernick has become intolerable….
That’s true. Good point again. I agree the hate for Kaep is ridiculous.
I hope the 49ers can work it out with Kaep and he and Gabbert can fight for the starting job. There isn’t any better options in FA, and I’m not convinced the 49ers QB of now or the future will be available in this draft. Its a pretty weak QB draft. I’m just not sure either the 49ers brass or Kaep are really interested in making that happen though.
I think your summation is spot on Scooter….
Solid.
All I will say is, sometimes, one will discover how precious a jewel is, only the moment it leaves the hand while being thrown away.
HellNo Kap needs to be traded or letgo,I don`t want to go through another year of watching Kap failure to be a BASIC QB let alone a Decent QB……He is not Willing to do what it takes,why waste the little talent you do have by running this looser out on the field why.
Go, go Gabbert dink n dunk!
Another Peyton Manning…of late.
Grant you are nit-picking,I guess you`re ok with Gabbert droping back and instead of COMPLETING a pass you want Him to be like Kap and Take sack.or aleast Gabbert COMPLETES a pass to a Receiver and not throw the ball OUT of bounds when receivers are running OPEN,You really scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to drum up support for Kap,You say the 9ers have no chance to make the playoffs without Kap? did you really make yourself say that? Hell the 9ers have`nt made the playoff with Kap since……..my point exactly. give itup Grant your viewpoint is Flawed and yes Gabbert will give the 9ers a better chance then Kap because Kap REFUSES to do the things REAL QBs do;STUDY and Pay attention to the little things called DETAILS of QBacking 101 and Kap is slow processing info and reading the field and I don`t know if you can teach someone like Him when He is not Willing to learn.
People said the same things about Alex Smith. Roll right, throw it to the towel boy. Kaepernick is under contract and like Alex Smith, cooler heads should prevail. He’ll realize Chip Kelly is his best opportunity for redemption….
Real quarterbacks don’t check down on almost every third down. That’s shameless stat-padding.
Do you think it likely that some of that was lack of confidence by Gabbert in the OL? After all, he saw how Kap suffered under the poor OL play.
I definitely think he lost confidence in the OL, as did Kaep. And it effected both players. Kaep is a much better player behind an OL he trusts, and I’m sure Gabbert is too. But unfortunately part of being a QB is sometimes you have to play behind less than stellar OLs and still get the job done without flinching. Both guys failed that test last season, in my opinion.
What’s the range between less than stellar and putrid? ;-}
Scooter
Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck looked pretty putrid behind putrid OLs. It affects everyone except Tom Brady.
Devvy the rotating RG during Kaep’s time taking game snaps didn’t make it on Brady’s team. He was on and not on the Patriots before he went to the Niners
Aaron Rodgers was still able to win games. Andrew Luck was having a bad season even before his injuries, but he’s a tough dude that is willing to take a hit. Both guys are able to hang in the pocket. Kaep and Gabbert were skittish even when the pocket held up this past season.
After the Viking game, Kaep was sacked 28 times- 4 times per game.Any QB would get skittish taking such a brutal beating.
Is Aaron Rodgers skittish? Russell Wilson? There were other QBs in the NFL having to play behind bad OLs that were able to overcome it and win football games for their team.
While I am in complete agreement with any argument that Kaep would look a lot better with better OL play, there is no getting around the fact he played very poorly with a bad OL.
True. Lets hope a better O line coach and better players can solidify the O line.
Pears made his job a lot harder. Devey succeeded to get Kaep injured. Finally, when Brown was elevated, Gabbert had a little more time to throw.
The check downs are shameless something. Some say stat padding. I think he might be pocket chicken. Either way it doesn’t win football games.
And some say Chryst. We will know for sure at some point.
You may think you will, but you won’t.
It’s interesting how we’ve gone from blaming the OC for not calling the right distance plays on third down to saying “Not Gabbert. On third down, he drops back, panics and dumps the ball to a running back as soon as humanly possible.”
That’s not what you were saying last season.
Somewhere CFC is rolling his eyes. He was saying how subpar Gabbert’s play was the whole time during his starts.
In Chip’s system with an open competition between Gabbert and Kaep, Gabbert will beat out Kaep to start. But I think Kaep will be traded unless they fail miserably to shore up both sides of the line in Free Agency.. Chip/Baalke should tip their hand by mid to late March..
I’d take that bet because Kaepernick has already beat Gabbert twice in training camp. I think we’ll get a better idea of who has the winning hand during the combine….
True, though Gabbert has never been given an equal shot at winning the job either. Both years he has gone into camp as the clear cut backup, and Kaep the clear cut starter. If they keep Kaep, this would be the first time either player will go into TC as part of a real competition.
Looking forward to it….
Why do you say “a better idea …. during the combine”? Is that because negotiations get started and trade rumors start to have some meat behind them or not?
Correct
I believe the Alex Smith trade was consummated at the combine….
That’s a funny definition of “consummated.”
Kaepernick is going to be the starter. Has he ever said he doesn’t want to be one the 49ers? Or have writers portrayed it that way? Chip Kelly has openly said that he wanted to trade for Kaepernick. All this hoopla about him not being the starter is becoming a joke to me.
Before the season ended, Kaepernick and Baalke sat down and talked about everything. No one seems to talk about this and to me it is one of the most important reasons as to why I believe he will be the starter.
“A source with knowledge of the situation told La Canfora that this meeting was better than the ones before and after Kaepernick was benched, and that the relative marginalization of team president Paraag Marathe is seen as a positive. However, there still remains significant skepticism from Kaepernick’s camp that the team wants him back” http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25402847/report-49ers-kaepernick-meet-qb-may-return-in-2016
After that meeting in the first week of December Chip Kelly was fired by the Eagles and hired as the 49er head coach. The part I showed above shows that Kaepernick was skeptical about being on the roster. Some of his uncertainty stemmed from them not signing players to help play around him and also hiring a sufficient coach to coach. So what did they do? They went out and got the coach who wanted to work with Kaepernick (also tried on another coach who wanted Kaepernick). I think the two leading candidates for the 49ers job tells you all about how the organization feels about Kapernick. Kaepernick and his agent know the team has loads of money to spend in free agency. So I am looking for them to further show they are serious about keeping Kaepernick and helping him succeed by spending big on some players to help support him.
To me Gabbert is the trade bait, he has more appeal to teams like Houston, Denver, and other teams looking for a franchise QB than Kaepernick does. I’m guessing Gabbert is the one that gets traded and we get Prescott or Adams or both as backups.
James, that’s an interesting point you bring up. The 49ers moves in free agency this year could go a long way to Kaep deciding whether or not he wants to stay. If they solidify the OL and bring in some decent players at the skill positions, he may see more value in sticking around.
Well done mate!
Interesting take on trade bait. I think Gabbert only has a year on his contract. I’m not sure what he would fetch.
Why would Gabbert be trade bait? He wasn’t effective as a starter and lacks the ability to carry an offense on his back.
It’s perfect he has one year on his deal. Teams looking for a QB can draft other players to build their roster and if Gabbert has a bad year than they don’t have to have him on their team because he’ll be a free agent. I would agree though, he isn’t really huge trade bait becaus the most we could get would be a 5th rounder. More like he provides value for the 49ers on the trade block.
You’re giving a better argument as to why a team wouldn’t trade for him. It cost the 49ers a sixth round pick in ordet to get Gabbert from the Jaguars, and he did nothing to truly stand out in the NFL since then, so I doubt any team would be willing to trade anything more than a seventh round pick or a roster bubble player for him.
James, I agree, Gabbert does have trade value.
Gabbert showed how limited the QB play can be without a decent O line. He actually showcased his talents pretty well, and looks like a QB that will not throw the ball like the DBs are the intended receivers, like Hoyer did in the playoffs. Gabbert is only 26, so he could have a long career as the Texan QB. If the Niners could manage a second round pick for him, I would be very happy.
A second round pick?! The GM who makes that move should be fired and not allowed another GM position ever again.
Well, at least I did not call for 2 firsts and a second, or 2 seconds like Alex Smith.
That’s still a ridiculous cost for a player who hasn’t shown any form of improvement.
Well, if they will only get a 5th rounder for him, it would be better to keep him.
MWD
Seb is obsessed with trying to steal another team’s 2nd. At least he’s pushing a backup QB now instead of 2 PS players and an ancient.
Well, I hope you agree that getting a second round pick is desirable, especially with such a deep draft.
I postulated a trade with 2 starters and one of 2 CBs who ran sub 4.5 forties. They did have value. I put in the PS players if they wanted to go with youth.
Seb
Of course I agree that it’s desirable, I’m a 49ers fan. But nobody is giving up a 2nd for Gabbert. When Andy Reid gave 2 2nds for Alex, Smith had the best QB rating in the NFL, and had shown that he could be coached. In other words, Smith had shown Reid that he would be the perfect QB to run Reid’s WCO, predicated on mobility and short-passing accuracy.
Gabbert hasn’t shown much, frankly hasn’t had the chance, being that he played for the worst HC in the history of the NFL. At least he’s shown more than he did in Jax, so it’s likely that he could garner more than a 6th, but probably nothing better than a 4th, tops.
Well, at 2 mil, Gabbert is a good deal for a backup, and Chip himself intoned the necessity to have 2 QBs on the team due to attrition.
Considering Kaep had 3 surgeries, it is prudent to have a decent backup QB, and Gabbert did win 3 games.
With 12 draft picks, the Niners do not need to get rid of Gabbert for another pick. Unless it is a 2nd rounder, they should just keep him.
Seb
This is true. And your piece at the bottom is great. They can’t go into next season with Gabbert, Thompson, and a rookie. They’ve got 2 guys for the price of 1 right now. This will be the year that dictates the future.
Sil, glad you saw I put in a little research. I tried to get a sampling from most of the recent SB QBs.
Yeah, Seb, it resonates a lot more when one can point to that kind of evidence, I think. There are a lot of different ways to think about stuff during this time of year, and when someone brings something new and solid to the table, it’s great. That guy James Foster has a good post up on this page somewhere too. Interesting, different take.
OT but I have been wondering about the Ravens. With Flacco having both an ACL and MCL, I think they may take a QB in the first since they will be able to get decent defensive players later due to the depth in the draft.
Ravens have a ton of needs, so the Niners should be able to be guaranteed to choose between Jack, Buckner or Stanley.
Well, the Texans are desperate enough for a decent QB. Hoyer, their present QB, threw passes that looked like the DBs were the intended target in their playoff game.
The Texans, with their third ranked defense, would love to have a QB who did not suck. A rookie may take a few years to develop, so getting a veteran QB may be their best strategy.
This was a terrible article Grant. You gave very weak reasons why Gabbert shouldn’t start and why Kaepernick should. You can do better than this.
Chris Biderman making a case for a Kelly-Bradford reunion:
“Or put another way: Bradford’s learning curve might be the least steep of any potential option while San Francisco tries to return to prominence in a division loaded with talented defenses.
In his first eight games, Bradford completed 62 percent of his throws and had a 76.4 passer rating, both ranking 27th among quarterbacks. But after the team’s bye in early November, Bradford’s production improved dramatically.
He completed 68 percent of his passes, ranking fourth during that period, with a 97.0 passer rating while averaging 280 yards passing per game with 10 touchdowns and four interceptions.”
“Bradford appeared far more comfortable in Kelly’s offense, which is predicated on decision making and accurate throws, two areas where Kaepernick struggled the last two years.”
“Despite his long injury history, Bradford will be an option worth considering for Kelly while he tries to make his mark during the first year with his new team.”
Yet a defender stated that they would ignore the run option because Bradford would not risk running with the ball. That was one reason the Eagle offense sputtered. Having either Kaep or Gabbert as mobile QBs will make the Zone Read option work.
True. But it was a surprise to me when Kelly traded for Bradford. After all, it was pretty obvious at that time that it was highly unlikely that Bradford would keep defenses honest with an ability to run from the zone read. Surely, Kelly knew this but he traded for him anyway.
Desperate times called for desperate measures, hence the 2nd Round pick he foolishly paid for him….
I can understand the learning curve point that Biderman makes. With all the upheaval on the team and if they truly have a desire to potentially make a significant improvement in the win column, then having a QB (the most important position on the team) who already knows the new coaches’ system could be a big advantage. Might not be a good choice for the long term, but possibly for the short term.
With regards to the zone read, Kelly had this to say after Bradford was hit by Suggs during the preseason:
“It was just a handoff. Not every shotgun run is a zone-read play. We didn’t run any zone-reads. We don’t run as much zone-read as everyone thinks we do. I thought the interpretation on the field was correct.
He said it was a read-option play, but it wasn’t a read-option play. I know our quarterbacks can get hit on a read-option play, but not every run we have is a read-option run. We run sweep, power, counter, trap — all of those things out of the gun.
Everyone in the league runs shotgun runs. Are they going to hit every quarterback in the league when they hand off in the shotgun? That’s up to the league. I think it would be troubling for the league if every quarterback in the shotgun can be hit.”
Well, he was a definite upgrade from Foles. I think Chip was counting on Murray to carry the load, but with Mathis leaving, the guard play suffered.
Kelly’s offense is predicated on the running game. Don’t let anyone tell you different.
Word
Agree. But that statement doesn’t have to include the QB running the ball. Or are you implying that it does?
It absolutely does.
Then how do you explain Kelly trading for Bradford?
Lack of options.
Why did he need to trade at all? Foles was great in 2013 and not so great in 2014. But the Eagles record was still better in 2014 than 2015. With regards to running here are the stats:
“In 13 games Foles ran 57 times for 221 yards, averaging 4.4 yards/carry. Compare that to Bradford’s paltry 26 attempts for 39 yards with an average of 1.9 per carry in his 14 games in 2015.”
Kelly’s 2014 game vs Fangio’s 49er defense was a turning point.
Prior to that game, Kelly’s offense terrorized the league. After Fangio shut him out, his win/loss record plunged.
Not saying its all Fangio. Eagle FO issues, bad personnel moves, injuries played a part. But when you look at his record with at Philly, the dividing line is pretty stark.
The day Fang devoured the chip
Eagles Offensive Stats vs 49ers Defense – Sept. 28, 2014
Points – 0
First downs – 11
Total yards – 213
Turnovers – 4
Penalties – 10 (70)
Third Down Conv. – 5-13
Fourth Down Conv. – 0-2
Total Plays – 56
Time of Possession – 17:43 (49ers 42:17)
The Eagles didn’t get past their own 43 yard line until after 6:35 left in the 4th qtr.
Drive. Plays / Result
1. 6 / Punt
2. 6 / Punt
3. 3 / Punt
4. 6 / Punt
5. 6 / Fumble
6. 2 / Fumble
7. 3 / Punt
8. 2 / Int
9. 3 / Punt
10. 15 / Downs
11. 4 / Int
Chip Kelly’s NFL Head Coaching Record
Before Fang ate the Chip – 13 W, 6 L
After Fang ate the Chip – 14 W, 15 L
Not suggesting Fangio killed the Chip Kelly offense from that point forward. Injuries and the well documented FO issues had alot to do with the fall off.
But It does seem like a pivot point. Kelly has a near dominant record before he played Fangio’s defense. A losing record after.
Did Fangio “write the book” on Kelly’s offense for the rest of the league?
I find that highly doubtful.
(Did Fangio “write the book” on Kelly’s offense for the rest of the league?)
The Eagles won 3 of the next 4 games so if the book was written then people weren’t reading.
After 4 games, Foles was out of the season and the Eagles still closed the season 4-4.
So after the Niners game the Eagles were 7-5 on the season, with most games with their backup QB.
Hardly a sign that their offense had been figured out.
The “losing record” after the Niners game is mostly due to 2015 results, with a very much different offense than 2013-14.
So to paint that Niners game as a pivot point seems like a bit of a stretch.
Yes, that was a defensive gem.
But let’s not forget that the Eagles had Nick Freaking Foles as QB.
The guy can’t even be the starter on the Rams.
That the Eagles were able to win some many games with him, and that people were surprised by how bad the offense looked against the Niners is as much an endorsement on Chip’s work as is on Fangio’s.
I actually do not care if Kaep sticks around and Gabbert for that matter. Bringing in Vernon Adams would be a good thing. Chips system makes the QB in every case, a better QB. I was optimistic last year. My optimism this year is tempered until free agency. With the cap room used for a couple of big signings on defense and drafting defense with the first pick would go a long way towards re-establishing a dominate defense. Snag me a center and a and a OL with the second and third pick and I could see this team doing well next year. The team has to buy in, and the team has to run the ball and a QB that is a threat to run and the offense will do well.
Posters who flippantly declare that they do not want Kaep are not thinking it through. If not Kaep, then Gabbert will probably struggle like last year, and with Cards and Seahawks in the division, the playoffs will seem unattainable.
Counting on a rookie to make it to the playoffs is laughable. Cam took 5 years to make it to the SB. Both Winston and Mariota failed last year. Alex Smith was thrust into the starting lineup as a rookie, and he still has not made it to the SB. It took RW 2 years and the Seahawk defense to make it to the SB. It took Joe Flacco 5 years to win a SB. It took 11 seasons for Eli to win 2 SBs. Aaron Rodgers had to sit for years before he got his chance and won a SB after 5 years.
Only Kaep made it to a SB after playing in 10 games, and now some posters think he is washed up. Kaep gives the Niners their best chance to succeed. If Kaep is gone, expect losing seasons for the next few years.
What about “Big Ben” in Pittsburgh? It takes more than just a QB to win a SB; otherwise, guys like Marino would have a fistful of rings. Look at Trent Dilfer in Baltimore. That alone validates the proof that it takes more than a QB to win a SB.
Joe Montana admitted he would not have won without Ronnie Lott. It does take a whole team and if there is a weak link, it might be enough to thwart their ambitions.
Hopefully, the defense will regain their past form and the offensive malaise will be cured. Kaep is only a part, but since he touches the ball every offensive snap, he is a crucial factor in moving the ball and scoring.
Seb, I’m with you. This team definitely needs Kap, especially with an offensive minded head coach who can get the best out of him. My personal opinion is, Kap lost confidence running for his life, being sacked so much, not having recievers get open quick enough, and a building full of rumors and turmoil. Now I believe kap can’t win games by making people around him better, he’s not cut out like that. He needs a system, he needs players, he needs confidence in his kraft. He had that in 2012-2013.. Then for some reason, they tried to change him and the roster he took a discount to keep strong.. Well he is in prime position to be with another good football mind and reap the rewards of his discounted contract. No need to bounce now.
I am hopeful. If they had hired Shanahan, I think Kaep would be long gone. Now that they hired Chip, Kaep is an ideal QB to be able to run his system.
Keeping Kaepernick will be Kellys down fall. He should have a pretty good idea how bad of a QB is Kaepernick and actually can’t read opposing defenses and find his open receivers and sucks in the pocket. Blaine Gabbert and smart and very accurate from the pocket even though he doesn’t have a good line.
Probably why he tried to trade for him….
It doesn’t mean anything if the the rumors that he tried to trade for him or not. That’s History ! Move forward dude you still living in the stone age your boy Kaepernick doesn’t have it, his next occupation should be in Hollywood that’s where he’s good at in front of the camera showing off his biceps.
You’re a drive by shooter on Kaepernick, who I might add is under contract to the 49ers. As long as that’s the case, I will continue to support him. Keep carrying your Bucket Full Of Hate….
He’ll appreciate your support for him until the end of March but beyond April1st, you’d better start looking for another QB for the 49ers to support.
I could give a rats ass if he appreciates it, and quite frankly, I really don’t value your advice. Just saying….
Razor, when I’d read your last post, man you made me spill my wine. :)
Kaep is Chip’s best chance to resurrect his coaching career. Kaep is a perfect fit for Chop’s system, and thank God Kaep finally has a coach who is smart enough to accentuate his skillsets.
Seb, what skill set does Kaep has? Sure he can throw the football 60 yards and when the ball is snapped all he does is think about where to run with the football instead handing it to the running backs or finding and throwing it to his open receivers.
Well, I have seen Kaep throw passes that are jaw dropping. Very few other QBs could have made those throws. He also put his foot on the half yard line, then sprinted up field untouched for a TD. He not only out ran the LBs, he outran the DBs.
I also watched many Nevada- Reno games. He ran the pistol and had to do multiple reads and make quick decisions. Against Boise, I saw Kaep will his team to victory, even though Boise St. was the superior team.
That playoff game against GB where he ran for 181 yards, just showed me that he is an extremely talented player.
Kaepernick cannot adjust to opposing defense and the other team has kaepernick numbers that’s why he looked like a mediocre QB.
Bloody brilliant!
Look at Cam Newton his a way better overall QB than Kaepernick he didn’t survive the Broncos defense. Do honestly think Kaepernick would’a done better than Cam?
Funny, I’ve never seen Kaepernick pout like a baby, or give up on recovering his own fumble, while the game was still in question, in the Super Bowl, because he was afraid….
Cam Newton thought by him winning the MVP in the NFL he’s already above everyone. What drove him to that was too much pride and expectation on himself that he’ll win the SB single handily. But the Broncos defense didn’t allowed him too.:)
Cam’s MVP shoes were soooo pretty….
Kaepernick, operating behind a Top-5 OL in 2012, reached the SB, and the NFCCG in 2013. He came one stupid Harbaugh timeout away from winning the Super Bowl. In fact, he has been superior to Cam Newton since they were both drafted; this year, Cam played behind the 2nd best OL in the NFL, but he didn’t come as close to beating the Broncos in the Super Bowl as the Niners did the Ravens.
Question is, who is more Superior between the two now??
And when it’s said and done who’s going to have a more brilliant career. Certainly, Cam Newton for one thing will have a better NFL career and secondly he has more upside than Kaep.
Why? How do you figure? He saw a ball sitting on the ground in front of him after dropping it there and instead of picking it up, he ran the other way screaming. Can’t bet on that guy.
Bah. Cam melted down big time. He may never win a SB. all they have to do is rattle him, and he collapses like a house of cards. Did you see him fall down on the side line when the play went against Carolina? Cam, like Manning, was the beneficiary of a great defense. However, Manning, even with his weak arm and legs, knew how to play well enough to win a SB.
You’ve not watched how good Cam Newton played the whole season, you’re basing he’s overall performance in one game against a stout broncos defense, even the great maybe hall famer QB Tom Brady was denied by the great defense of the Broncos.
Seb that’s why Manning is a hall fame QB. You’d said Cam melted down big time, so did Kaepernick against the Seahawks defense they’d rattled him up and the poor bewilder Kaepernick didn’t know where he was playing at.:)
Jamaica Panthers Fan
You forgot how good Kaep was in 2012 and 2013. And then you jumped to the Panthers, and now you’re a Cam Newton fan. You’ll jump again soon. See ya, chump.
Siliconchip, sorry to disappoint you I’m not a Cam Newton or a panther fan for one thing. To tell you frankly i’m just a football fan. I’m a 49ers fan for a long time but to tell you the truth Kaepernick doesn’t impressed me all.
Siliconchip, sorry to disappoint you I’m not a Cam Newton or a panther fan for one thing. To tell you frankly i’m just a football fan. I’m a 49ers fan for a long time but to tell you the truth Kaepernick doesn’t impressed me.
Behind that O line, no QB would succeed. Once Devey was benched, Gabbert actually had time to throw. Once Pears was removed from the RT position, the Niners played a lot better.
Too bad Kaep was injured so badly, he had to have 3 surgeries. He was injured because the O line acted like turnstiles.
Seb, C’mon man do you honestly believe that crap? If he was injured why didn’t he tell the 49ers management sooner and wait until the season is over? Too many smoke screen..
Well, when he had those surgeries, I think that fact told the Niners he was injured. Maybe the team doctors did not have his best interests at heart when they failed to diagnose those injuries and made him play while injured. When he threw the ball into the ground, maybe they should have gotten a clue that something was not right. I never heard Kaep on the injury report, so either the doctors were hiding his injuries, or they were incompetent.
Or maybe the player is just not very good?
You seem to always blame everyone else but the player. I’ve never heard you once place any accountability on him? Why?
For 2 years he showed a diminishing return based on his play. At some point you would think its the player and not this huge conspiracy theory you keep babbling about!
Seb, I believe you’re a die hard Kaep apologies. I’ll respect that. But you think those 49ers doctors are incompetent because they didn’t discover Kaep’s injury sooner you said. I thought this group of 49ers doctors are professional with a degree in their field of medicine and swore that they will take care their patients to the best of their knowledge & abilities. And that’s why they are getting paid lots of money by the 49ers organization to look after their players.
Prime, I have said that Kaep regressed, but you refuse to acknowledge that Kaep’s struggles could have been due to injuries. He had 3 surgeries. Over 2 seasons, he was sacked 80 times. One game he was sacked 9 times.
If the O line had given him more than a nanosecond of time, Kaep may have played better.
Remember, Kaep took the league by storm, and now with competent coaching, I hope he does it again.
Seb forget the CK from 2 years ago, the injuries and the bad coaching and surrounding personnel.
The bottom line is he is a bad teammate! The Aldon situation, the relationship with the media, the players around the league verbally not endorsing him, he is a cancer.
I know it breaks your heart but he needs to start fresh in a new city to resurrect his career. Go be a back up for a year and earn a starting job.
SF is the last place he needs to be!
He did indeed take the league by storm, but all that was, was a flash in the pan!
Jam, maybe the fact that Kaep had to go to Colorado to have his surgeries spoke volumes about what Kaep thought about the Niner Doctors.
Once again, I will stress that I never heard Kaep on the injury report, so either they were downplaying the injuries, or they were incompetent. They did not look after the players. They forced Kaep to play while injured.
Prime, Aldon is not blameless in this matter. He lost a 100 million dollar contract over a woman who did not want him. Maybe he should have been more mature about the situation, instead of imploding. He had 100 million reasons to move on, but could not.
The same Niner doctors that were ultra conservative with Navorro Bowman? To me those same doctors did it very well with him.
Seb, or it’s the other way around Kaepernick knew about the injuries and he kept it a secret from the 49ers doctors. Because he was afraid losing his starting Qb position like Alex Smith did when he went on injury. But still that’s not an excuse for not performing to your ability out on the football field. He’s just guilty like the 49ers doctors you say are incompetent as well.
Seb,
I like Kap as well, but in my humble opinion if Kelly really wants him it will likely be because like some of us, Kelly is enthralled by the 2012-2013 CK7.
The current Kap persona and abilities are very different than what we witnessed in his first two seasons. His regression, his move on Aldon’ girl friend (a breach of teammate etiquette) are just two reasons why CK’ may have lost respect on the field and the locker room.
Let’s face it, the ideal of the current CK starting at QB this year boils down to the lesser of two evils if he beats out Gabbert in TC because Gabbert is not the future either.
I view the prospect of Kap being our 2016 starting QB like this; He will need to be better than the explosive and exceptional player that went to the Superbowl. Why? because although he was good enough to get us there, he wasn’t good enough to get us over the top.
Last I looked, we go to SB’ to win.
This team has many holes to fill and maybe Kap or Gabbert can help make us a little better than last year, but the way I see it, our franchise QB has yet to put on a 49er uniform.
I hope Kaep can go to Aldon and apologize for his transgression, and clearly state that Aldon’s former GF said that she had broken off the relationship before Kaep became involved with her.
I do not think Kaep lost the locker room as much as the FO was pushing to get rid of him with all those leaks. Heck, they would not even let him on the side lines. That was sending a message loud and clear that they did not like or want him.
Seb,
Just for the sake of it, let’s agree that CK has not lost the locker room. Let’s eliminate the Aldon/girlfriend situation from the equation.
My question to you would be; When has CK been a vocal leader both on and off the field?
Last years rookie QB’ Mariota and Winston showed more leadership on the field in their first season than CK has shown during his entire NFL career thus far.
I am far from being a Kap detractor (you should know that by now), but unless he makes some major character changes and uses better judgement he will never be regarded as a true leader in the locker room and in the huddle.
AES, I will counter your argument by saying that Joe was not a vocal leader in the locker room. He did all his talking on the field, just by being cool, calm and collected. Randy Cross would say that after Joe got sacked hard, he would not say a word like most QBs would, and that made Randy feel even worse, so he would try 10 times harder to protect Joe.
Sometimes a leader does not have to be a rah rah type. He just needs to lead by example. I think Joe would defer to Ronnie Lott, who would fire up the squad in those pre game speeches.
I also agree with you. Kaep needs to show better leadership skills. Those PCs were brutal in the beginning, but in the end, he actually wore a suit and answered all the questions with full sentences, instead of monosyllabic grunts. I hope Kaep ditches the head phones and does more practice sessions with Bob Lange.
Maybe I should clarify. Joe did speak, but there were other leaders on the team who were more vocal. It helps when they had Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott who both commanded respect.
Joe led by being Joe Cool. He did not say as much, but when he spoke, players listened.
Seb,
It is bordering on sacrilege to put CK’ name in the same sentence as Joe Montana’s.
Again, some here are still infatuated with the 2012-2013 Kap to the risk of doing themselves a disservice of not honestly viewing the current CK with all that has unfolded over the last couple of seasons.
If Kap had won the SB he would have stood on the shoulders of the great Montana and Steve Young and there would have been a certain aspect of respect attributed to him that come with a SB win. One of those attributes would have been a level of leadership that comes with winning a Superbowl.
But CK did not cross that bridge and his subsequent seasons following the SB have been less than stellar – or to the point of losing his starting job to put it succinctly.
Instead entering the 2016 season with the knowledge that CK is our proven and undeniable QB and leader, we enter the 2016 off season with questions such as; can Kap regain his mojo and will he even be on the team?
Seb, that’s a far cry from a QB in which we could say his career is defined by leadership.
AES, I did not include Kaep in the same sentence as Joe. I did talk about 2 different styles of leadership, though, and Kaep needs to improve.
Seb, you should’a said Harbaugh, the 49ers stout defense and OL and Gore’s excellent running game was the reason for Kaepernick success. Without those ingredients Kaep was just a mediocre Qb.
Seb
There’s never a second chance to make a good first impression
OREGON,
C’mon my ol’ frienamy, you can’t say that CK didn’t make a good first impression. It’s his regression after the SB that has been his demise.
Hey, I find it interesting that the 49er and Kap’ reps want to meet in Indy. Will the Org wait to see how the combine QB’ perform before meeting with CK’ reps?
Who knows, CK’ future might hinge on the combine.
The 49ers Owner and GM are both stupid if they don’t draft a franchise QB in the Draft. Lets face it, Kaepernick is not the answer for the 49ers he’s history. And the 49ers don’t want to turn back the page and wait for this guys Kaep to be a franchise QB which he’s not.
What franchise quarterback?
Well, my first impression was that after 10 games, Kaep was a Super Bowl QB.
AES do you remember when Grant reported that Patton made a mistake and Colin ripped him a new one. I don’t think he has the personality of an upfront leader. When he tries he doesn’t do it very well.
Living in Denver its reported all the time that Manning tears into his receivers when they don’t get stuff right. For a while he wouldn’t even play with Cody Latimer because of how frustrated he was with his preparation.
wilsonm,
I do remember that. But Kap’ rip on Patton was based more on frustration than a show of leadership.
I saw J. Winston get in the face of his entire OL on the sidelines to light a fire under them. I saw the players he was speaking too totally giving him their full attention. Not bad for a rookie.
When CK became the starter, he would try to hard to appease players like Randy Moss and M.Crabtree by telling them (on the sidelines) that he would get them a TD pass.
Kap’ exuberance on the sidelines was refreshing but singling out a few players as opposed to bring the entire offense together was a missed opportunity to take on a true leadership role.
Kap has a huge uphill climb to regain the starting role again. He has to prove that he is head-n-shoulders better than last season in training camp. He will need to regain the coaches confidence and probably his biggest hurdle, gain the confidence ad respect of his teammates again.
I like CK a lot, but this may prove to be to tall an order for Kap to overcome.
Wilson, I think it was because Patton was goofing off, and Kaep was trying to get him to focus and get serious. It was also in TC. Brady would rip his WRs during the game.
I did not see Kaep be negative along the side lines, but I saw other players throwing helmets. Keeping cool calm and collected is hard to do in the heat of the moment, and I saw the other Niner players lose their composure way too many times.
I blame the coaching for not preparing them properly.
AES
Joe Montana wasn’t a vocal leader; he was incredibly cool, which, I admit, Kaep doesn’t seem to be, but he was not vocal, not your typical type of leader.
Montana became a leader by virtue of his penchant for winning throughout his career and of SB’s.
He was consummate non-verbal leader who led by example. Kap has yet to meet neither of those criteria.
Any leadership value he received during the 2012-13 season was smothered by his poor judgement along the way. From his wearing the cap of a different NFL team to his move on a teammates girl friend it seems to validate the opinion that CK’ less than stellar judgement is questionable at best.
Kap has his work cut out for him if he wants to win over the locker room again. What worries me is that winning his teammates confidence is only half of his uphill climb – he still has to prove that he can play to his 2012 level again as well.
As I said earlier, that is a tall order.
AES
Early in his career, after the 1981 Super Bowl victory, Joe Montana had an LT-sized cocaine habit, and it was such a problem that Bill Walsh almost traded him. That’s history, and we’re in a different world now, but CK7 has been a relative choir boy in comparison to Joe.
It’s funny, we all sit here and judge Kaepernick harshly, casting aspersions on his actions with “Aldon’s girl” or his strange fashion sense — but we don’t really know what goes on behind the scenes. What we know is that Aldon’s alcoholism has caused him to be an epic disappointment, so maybe we’re not really seeing the picture as clearly as we might imagine. I’ve been guilty of it.
I’ll bet if Kaep recommits himself to the team, and dedicates himself to a rigorous mental program with Chip and Ryan Day, it won’t be long before he’s back in the captain’s chair.
Regarding Joe Montana, if he had a bad drug addiction the team did a great job in keeping it behind closed doors. Today’s athletes are living in a glass house become of the advent of social media.
While CK has not been on the police blotter he has made decisions that have been immature and lack keen discernment. The type of poor judgements Kap has made are the kind that damage team spirit.
Montana may have made a poor decision that was hurting himself – Kap made a decision that hurt another teammate and subsequently himself.
*because* of the advent
“His regression, his move on Aldon’ girl friend (a breach of teammate etiquette) are just two reasons why CK’ may have lost respect on the field and the locker room.”
and that is why I think #7 is no longer a 49er.
Not sure the Cowboys takes a QB as 1st pick after the suspension of Gregory.
And Goff not ready to start thats uncertain till he really starts and from my point of view if a guy really has all the intangibles he can start but it depends who is the HC and if there is a good QB already see Favre-Rodgers.
“from my point of view if a guy really has all the intangibles he can start”
Do you mean like Montana and his intangibles who sat behind a QB that was just good enough to get you beat?
I made the SAME points at the end of the season. 1 QB IS CAREER 8-27, the other has lead his team to 2 championship games and a SB.
Chip’s background in theology may be too much for QB7 to surmount. Chip has a strong sense of right-and-wrong and we have seen QB7 playing on the edges of morality over his career. QB7’s on field performance is not enough to help him thorough this conundrum ala Peyton Manning. Based on this metric Chip may well find QB7 falls short on integrity affecting his leadership role. The Nessa-Aldon-QB7 event is the most recent character failing for QB7. This headache might be a bridge too far for Chip who is trying to build a winning team. QB7 may well not have a friend in Chip Kelly.
Am I the only one peeved the NFL made comp picks trade-able this year, then delayed the change until 2017? They actually had the “2016” crossed out. Doubt Baalke was very happy about it.
Kap is a one pitch thrower–fastball. That only works if you’re Mariano Rivera.
In the Pro’s, a variety of throws and reads are needed, hence, Goff wins this election by a landslide
However, I’m of the opinion that if you can get a QB who fits your system in the later rounds while using those earlier picks on defense and WR, that’s the route I’d take. Remember, Walsh got Montana in the 3rd round and traded a 4th rounder for Steve Young.
NFC West Scout: ‘No problem’ giving QB Adams shot in camp
It’s interesting to see the way the article is spun as being a compliment to Adams. I see it more as a backhanded one, as the scout said I would have no problem giving him a shot in camp but didn’t think he was worthy of being drafted.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that you’ve backtracked/changed your mind yet again Grant, but hey its your blog.
If Kelly wants Kap to stay and Kap reciprocates then we can see if he really does fit the scheme and if he can beat out Gabbert, but from what I’ve seen and heard Kap doesn’t really fit the scheme and doesn’t want to be here anyway.
I know many think it’s a crazy idea, but I could see them trading or cutting Kap, and signing Bradford instead or drafting a rookie in round 1 and bringing in another vet to compete with Gabbert as the place holder. Anything is possible but it doesn’t seem either party wants to be in business with each other right now.
Rocket:
You may not have seen it, but I posted an article above where Chris Biderman provides a case for Kelly bringing Bradford to the 49ers.
Just saw that Cubus, thanks for posting it.
“The 49ers need Kaepernick for at least one more season. They have almost no chance to make the playoffs without him.”
This might sound silly but why is it so important for the 49ers to make the playoffs next season?
Turn that around. Why is it so important to have Kap when Adams is already a plug and play QB who has played in Kelly’s offense? Take Adams in the 4th, and walla, you don’t have to wait a year for a new QB to learn the system.
My question had nothing to do with the QB. Clearly you like Adams but don’t just make up excuses to say so.
Like you, my question had nothing to do with QB, but team building (however, since you get to mention the QB position so do I).
Oops, my apologies. If I had known you were an imbecile I wouldn’t have bothered responding. My mistake.
There’s a new website. You must have mistaken this one, dealing with NFL, for the one you’re looking for: Idiots looking for an education…Good luck with that one.
And, Stryker, your dumbfounded photo says it all– maybe it could double as an advertisement for your new educational resource as well.
7. San Francisco 49ers
Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State: They get a mobile player who can excel in the pocket in Chip Kelly’s offense. This would mean Colin Kaepernick is done
If the 49ers draft a QB in the first, I think it would follow CK being traded/released.
in New England, Bill Belichick is running the show. I mean, hes a man of many talents. OC, DC, GM, HC, he has a say in it all. Thats what Jim Harbaugh was getting at. Jim Harbaugh was starting a dynasty, like how Belichick started one in New England. Minus all those cheating scandals. (Don’t shoot the messenger, please.) But no. Trent Baalke saw this coming from a mile away. He was not going to lose his job over this. He was going to poision the ears of Jed
One has to give Harbaugh credit, he did one of the top 3 defensive coordinators in the NFL
The man took the team to 3 straight NFC championships. Thats unheard of. Coaches like Harbaugh don’t come around very often. But story goes on, Harbaugh is shown the door.
TomD
You’re a dolt. Harbaugh has never won anything at any level. He was a drill sergeant who knew enough to hire Fangio, but was too foolish to move on from his idiotic allegiance to Schembechler offense.
So, you want to anoint a 49ers coach, anoint Fangio. He’s the reason the 49ers were successful from 2011-2013.
Dolt.
Considering what he did at SD, Stanford (for the first few years) and how he got Michigan to greatly over achieve without Fangio I think that is a bit harsh.
Jim Harbaugh had Fangio for one year (2010) at Stanford, and brought him to the 49ers because he wanted the strongest staff he could get.
Of course, the real story is that Jim wore out his welcome at the non football scholarship University of San Diego, wore out his welcome at Stanford, and had worn out his welcome right after losing to Seattle on the last play of the NFL Championship game. It’s only a freak of nature that USD and Stanford continued to win with the remains of Jim’s program.
They will probably kick his incompetent ass out of Michigan within the year.
“The 49ers will meet with Kaepernick’s representatives this week in Indianapolis, according to NFL sources.” – Barrows
“Meetings between team officials and the agents of prominent players are common and often perfunctory in Indianapolis.” – Barrows
I’m guessing its a feel out meeting between both parties. Colin needs to know where the team stands. The team needs to know where Colin’s head’s at.
They’re also meeting with the representatives of Williams, Boone, and Boldin.
I don’t see any of those players (including Kaepernick) returning in 2016.
Down on Goff, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth:
On Tunsil: “The game against Auburn might have been his most challenging, but Carl Lawson plays like a future first round pick.”
Lawson certainly does. A real shame he decided to stay at Auburn for at least another year, as he would have been great value in the 2nd/3rd round. I like him better than Spence.
What do you like better about him Scooter?
Excellent first step explosiveness combined with great strength and hand usage. He’s a highly disruptive player that can also be strong against the run.
Because he’s had difficulty staying healthy the last 2 years, I understand why he chose to stay another year. If he can keep from getting bitten by the injury bug this year, he’ll be a top 10 pick. #howmethe$$$
Yep, I expect so to. I certainly am not surprised by his decision, just think its a shame he’s not available this year as he probably would have been a guy that could be taken lower than his talent should dictate.
I was bummed too, but I’m sure Coach Steele is not….
Ranks
23 Cal QB Jared Goff
24 North Dakota St QB Carson Wentz
25 Memphis QB Paxton Lynch
No other quarterbacks in the top 75 players. Its a nation wide dental emergency.
3. Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott is interesting.
I had a dream of a Hyde/Gurley backfield, but a Hyde/Elliott committee would be a combination to salivate over as well. Too bad the 49ers don’t have that luxury….
I loved Gurley. I was so bummed the Rams snagged him at 9. Gurley+Hyde would be deadly. Fresh legs and extended careers.
Clearly Goff recognizes defenses and has the ability to throw a man open. He smoothly goes through his progressions and hits the open receivers. So the QB bar is not very high for the 49ers, we just have not seen this in 15 years since the York’s took ownership. I would settle for Goff if he was available.
There’s no sure thing quarterback in this draft. Nothing approaching an Andrew Luck. Luck’s a rare duck.
Quarterbacks usually have a far “lower floor” than most first round prospects. In terms of likelihood of NFL success, only injured players or players with substance/off field issues carry the same risk.
Drafting a quarterback top seven means skipping an almost sure thing player that can help your team win right away… for a guy with a roughly 50% chance of being a total flop.
(this very same subject is being discussed in the Dallas papers)
Imagine a draft being alot like Russian Roulette using a gun with 10 chambers…
– Andrew Luck: 9 empty chambers
– Most Quarterbacks taken in the top seven: 4 to 6 empty chambers
– Most other positions taken in the top seven: 7 to 9 empty chambers
It will be painful to skip some fantastic players like Jack, Stanley, Treadwell, Buckner and so on… but I’m still taking Goff. He has drawbacks (thin, fumble rate) but his combination of positive traits are too good to pass up.
I’m no football expert by any means. If anyone sees specific negative properties Goff has I welcome the feedback as tools in my tool box for deciding who we should draft.
Pointing out flaws in Goff (or Kaepernick or Gabbert) does not make you a “hater” in my mind. I can use all the info I can get.
I take your point Brodie, but I think the real issue comes down to whether you think his expected ceiling is worthy of taking him so high. Some people will look at him and see a potential elite QB, others will not.
I fear this year that teams will be projecting some of these QBs as better pro prospects than they really are simply due to need and a lack of alternatives. When I look at players I try and compare them to players from previous years to try and gauge whether I think they are worth being taken at a certain point in the draft. With Goff, I think he’d have been behind Winston and Mariota quite comfortably last year, but could have gone in the mid to late first round. In 2014, I think he would have been slotted in around the same area as Bridgewater and Carr (late first/ early second). So I can’t help but think any team drafting Goff (or Wentz, for that matter) in the top 10 is overdrafting the player.
Part of the problem Scooter is the very notion and expectation that a QB from the college ranks immediately translates into a franchise or elite QB especially if taken in the first round.As you know the likelyhood of that occuring is a low percentage. Perhaps Goff or Wentz for instance could be “that guy” but throwing them into the fire of a starting QB role immediately might be the very thing that mitigates that possibility.The need for a patient cultivation of talent seems less and less possible in frantic cauldron of the NFL today and it is taking its toll.
The idea a first round pick must start is one of my big bugbears. If a team feels a QB will develop into a star player but needs development time, they are still worthy of being picked in the first round and be given the time to develop. Same goes with any position.
Regardless of position, a player drafted in the top ten should have elite traits that translate to winning the starting position….
Baalke is on the hot seat. He will try to draft Day 1 starters with his first two picks.
“Baalke is on the hot seat. He will try to draft Day 1 starters with his first two picks.”
Wouldn’t that be nice.
Can he do it, Grant?
Grant Cohn February 22, 2016 at 1:29 pm
He will try to draft Day 1 starters with his first two picks.
Don’t most GM’s?
Not Farmer Ted!
“Regardless of position, a player drafted in the top ten should have elite traits that translate to winning the starting position….”
That is the ideal, but I don’t by any means see it as a prerequisite. The draft is about the future. You should be taking the player that you believe will be the best in 2-4 years time, not as a rookie. Use FA to fill immediate needs.
The player you “believe” to be elite in 2-4 years should already possess those traits to develop in the top ten….
Traits, yes. The consistency, NFL body and refined technique to be a starter from day 1, not necessarily.
Those can and are developed in training camp, where they often win the starting position….
Completely agree Scooter. The draft is not about finding immediate starters. It’s nice if you do, but the key is drafting players that become great players for you before their second contract.
A rebuilding team like the 49ers should especially be looking at best NFL prospects and not immediate need.
Scooter,
I fear this year that teams will be projecting some of these QBs as better pro prospects than they really are simply due to need and a lack of alternatives. When I look at players I try and compare them to players from previous years to try and gauge whether I think they are worth being taken at a certain point in the draft. With Goff, I think he’d have been behind Winston and Mariota quite comfortably last year, but could have gone in the mid to late first round. In 2014, I think he would have been slotted in around the same area as Bridgewater and Carr (late first/ early second). So I can’t help but think any team drafting Goff (or Wentz, for that matter) in the top 10 is overdrafting the player.
That’s an interesting take Scooter. I actually see it differently in that I think the QB’s in this draft are now being undervalued because of perceptions that they can’t adjust to a pro offense or will have to sit for an extended period of time.
I don’t know where Goff would have gone last year, but his 3 year run as a starter was comparable to Mariota’s with nowhere near the talent to work with. Cosell has said Goff is a better passer than Winston and I read an article where Tony Grossi said he was told by a draft guy that he felt Goff is a better prospect than Winston or Mariota. It’s all noise at the end of the day and we won’t know for sure until we see him play in the NFL, but there is some serious underestimating of Goff going on around here imo.
Wentz is tougher to predict because of the level of play and what I see as accuracy issues when pressured, but he has played very well over his time in the FCS and has it all physically so there is definitely some merit to thinking he could make a Flacco type move from College to the Pros.
Your last point was interesting in that you listed some successful young QB’s Goff could be lumped in with but then viewed it as over drafting if he went higher than they did. Knowing what we know now about Carr, there is little doubt he would be worth a top ten pick. Bridgewater as well although there are still some question marks. So why does it matter where the player is taken if you feel he’s capable of playing at that level?
Just to be clear the comparison with Mariota is their passing numbers not rushing where Mariota is obviously superior.
The comments about Goff’s body structure seems similar to what Brady looked like in his shorts at the combine. They are both tall skinny kids ata similar time in their lives.
I’m also reminded of Clark’s impression of the skinny guy at the end of the lunch counter before they were introduced. Clark thought Montana was a kicker if he was a player.
Carr and Bridgewater I like, but I doubt either will ever be elite QBs. Carr looks to me like a Cutler type, while Bridgewater looks a game manager type. Both are NFL calibre starters you can win with when you surround them with talent, and are worthy early round picks, but I don’t think either was worthy of an early first round pick. Which is how I feel about Goff.
When it comes to various people in the media saying Goff is a better prospect than Winston or Mariota, I honestly think it is just a case of short term memory. Falling for the shiny new toy. I honestly can’t see any team taking Goff over Winston or Mariota if they were all in the same draft.
When picking in the top 10 I believe you want to come away with an elite level talent. QB may be the most important position, but that shouldn’t mean you bypass an elite prospect at another position to take a good QB prospect that (at least in my eyes) isn’t an elite prospect.
But, I also acknowledge those are just my thoughts on Goff and Wentz. If a team thinks they have elite talent they should definitely take them.
Wholeheartedly agree Scooter. If Goff is sitting there in the second round, I’d have no problem taking him whatsoever….
Wholeheartedly agree Scooter. If Goff is sitting there in the second round, I’d have no problem taking him whatsoever….
Thinking you know a QB’s ceiling after two years in the league is a major leap Scooter. Andy Dalton pretty much debunks that theory. Both QB’s improved from year one to year two and in Carr’s case significantly. I guarantee you there are a number of teams wishing they had used a first round pick on him right now.
I don’t see Goff as being as prepared as Winston was to step into the NFL, but let’s not forget that Winston only started for two years in College either. An entire season more as a starter is nothing to shrug off. The point was that there are people who see this group – especially Goff – as Franchise caliber prospects. FWIW, I agree with Cosell that Goff is a better passer than both Winston and Mariota. That doesn’t mean he’ll be the better player, but he has a lot of arm talent that if nurtured and developed correctly could pay off big time.
Considering Goff is ranked as a top ten prospect in pretty much every ranking out there I don’t think this applies. What elite prospect are you passing on to take Goff at #7 if he’s thought of as being right in that area as a draft pick? What players do you see as can’t miss elite prospects in this draft at #7 that you couldn’t imagine passing on in favor of Goff? I don’t see any personally, in fact I don’t see a can’t miss level of talent in this draft period.
My view is simple: QB is the most important position in the game, the Niners don’t have a bonafide potential franchise QB, you don’t find many outside the top of the first round and who knows when they’ll be in this spot to take one again? If you get the chance to take a prospect who shows as many top shelf qualities as Goff does, you take him imo.
Classic symptoms of Whooping Goff. Probably got it from Cosell….
“Thinking you know a QB’s ceiling after two years in the league is a major leap Scooter.”
And yet you have no qualms saying that “knowing what we know now about Carr, there is little doubt he would be worth a top ten pick”.
As for the elite prospects, I think at a minimum Tunsil, Bosa, Ramsey, Jack, Smith and Buckner are all better prospects than Goff. To be honest I’m currently undecided as to which QB out of Goff and Wentz I prefer, as there are some intangibles about Wentz I really like. In particular he’s a gamer, and I think a bit like Roethlisberger is a guy that is mentally tough and plays better when he needs to. Goff is the flashier of the two, with better mechanics etc. He’s more NFL ready than Wentz.
And yet you have no qualms saying that “knowing what we know now about Carr, there is little doubt he would be worth a top ten pick”.
Not at all, because a second year QB with more than 30 TD passes and a rating over 90 is highly coveted in this league. He’s only going into year three which is why I don’t think you can put a limit on his ceiling, especially after the improvement from year 1-2.
As for the elite prospects, I think at a minimum Tunsil, Bosa, Ramsey, Jack, Smith and Buckner are all better prospects than Goff. To be honest I’m currently undecided as to which QB out of Goff and Wentz I prefer, as there are some intangibles about Wentz I really like. In particular he’s a gamer, and I think a bit like Roethlisberger is a guy that is mentally tough and plays better when he needs to. Goff is the flashier of the two, with better mechanics etc. He’s more NFL ready than Wentz.
It’s ironic that the Niners are picking 7th and you listed 6 players in the initial list isn’t it? ;)
Personally I don’t see any of those players as clearly being in a class above Goff. They are all good players, but all come with question marks especially Smith who no matter how hard they try to say otherwise, isn’t even likely to play this year. We are both speculating obviously, as is everybody else, but to me you take the QB if the talent is comparable and it is, at least to me.
Scooter_McG – Thanks for the info. You touched on some fundamental valuation issues when it comes to quarterbacks.
“QBs as better pro prospects than they really are simply due to need and a lack of alternatives.” I agree. This happens (almost) every draft.
The quarterback position is a fly in the NFL’s parity ointment.
– Teams near the top are usually desperate for quarterbacks.
– Quarterbacks have a low hit rate
– Most first round quarterbacks are “over drafted” due to the importance of the position
– Bad teams rush their quarterbacks into action
– Bad teams usually have poor quarterback development capacity
“I try and compare them to players from previous years to try and gauge whether I think they are worth being taken…” is a smart standard of measure.
Greg Cosell said Goff and Wentz look a little better compared to Winston and Mariota at the same stage of their careers. He wasn’t predicting NFL performance, just saying based on college vs college film he would rate Goff and Wentz higher as “prospects.”
For some perspective, Cosell preferred RG3 over Luck as a prospect…LOL. I’m certainly not taking his observations as bible.
Ceiling is a tough one. Most positions a ceiling can be estimated with properties like speed, size, explosion.
But there are so many ways a quarterback can get it done. Montana and Manning have totally different body types coming out of college.
Like any quarterback prospect, Goff has lots of flaws. I’m looking forward to talking about his good and bad qualities until the draft.
B2W, they said some skinny kid from ND would never make it in the NFL. he lasted til the third round.
However, while Goff is a skinny kid with throwing skills, he was not a clutch player. Goff did not do well against the stronger teams. Unlike Joe, who seemed to rise to the occasion and made some miraculous victories.
Joe was the best quarterback in history.
Goff’s college footage looks a bit like Drew Brees. They both have the odd looking habit of bending the torso (chin pointing up) to avoid pressure, but their footwork ensures the passes are accurate anyway.
I’ve noticed Goff’s base is too wide and his passes suffer poor accuracy because of it. Funny how two people look at the same player and see them completely different….
I’ve noticed Goff’s base is too wide and his passes suffer poor accuracy because of it. Funny how two people look at the same player and see them completely different….
Not many see it the way you do Razor. One of the positive traits talked about most with Goff is accuracy.
There’s always going to be a difference of opinions when it comes to scouting but Goff is in the top ten of pretty much every other list out there so Rotoworld is definitely not an indication of where his value is believed to be overall.
What I never understood was how these guys move up and down the draft board from week to week. Its possible Goff goes to being the 1st overall pick consensus by the end of the week to maybe 20th overall by the end of March. The fluxuation is insane.
FDM,
There’s a very obvious reason for the fluctuation: Most of these draft guru’s don’t watch film of every player before making their rankings early on. It’s all based on hype and what conference they have focused on the most. The reality is a player like Goff wasn’t seen regularly by these guys because he played in the PAC 12 and had a lot of games late on Saturday night East Coast time. The reason his ranking has increased since January is some of these draftniks are just now starting to watch more game film and seeing what fans on the Westcoast already know.
Unless Goff and Wentz completely choke in their workouts between now and the draft, they are likely guaranteed a place in the top ten.
FDM, everything will change once the Combine is over. This is just idle speculation. Everything will change once Free Agency is over, too.
If the Titans pick up the best FA tackle available, they might not pick Tunsil, and every draft prognostication could be skewed. Also, I predict some team will move up in the draft to select a player they really covet. Might be Rams, might be Texans.
These guys move up and down the pretend draft boards fans like me create. I would imagine team draft boards are considerably more stable.
Baalke said in an interview last year his draft board is mostly set well before the draft. (I think he said even before the combine)
He also said something surprising… a few teams (not the 49ers) have only a fraction of the players on their draft boards. 40-50 players that will work in their system.
Its really about getting their targeted player. The rest of the players are invisible.
Its a good thing to remember when watching the draft. The public and press are considering all the players “left on the draft board.” Most teams are picking over a much smaller number of guys.
It’s the most recent mock available….
You clearly have a case of Whooping Goff….
When I hear some guys here say in their post that Kaepernick should be the starter for the 49ers in 2016 is a JOKE! One more thing the 49ers can let Kaepernick walk before April 1st and they don’t owe this douche bag anything. Common sense the 49ers brass and owner don’t want to go back to last year disappointment. And keeping Kaepernick will just duplicate the 49ers bad team chemistry. Need to move forward and clean up the mess and it’s time the 49ers team go the positive ways.
Take out your hearing aid….
Actually I don’t wear one. Do you have one? :)
No, but I don’t hear anything when I read….
OK, we get it. You hate Kaep.
Personally, I like Kaep and hopes he helps the Niners win multiple Super Bowls. Forcing Kaep to be only a pocket passer was almost criminal.
Kaep, in Chip Kelly’s system, could take the league by storm.
Seb, Good luck to the multiple SB and to Kelly’s career as well, if he keeps Kaepernick. At least Kaepernick and Kelly will be holding hands heading to the exits together when they both screw up the 49ers team again. Maybe Baalke will be driving the bus out off San Francisco with them. :)
Well, I wish Baalke had been mutually parted with in January. He refused to spend 13 mil in cap space because he was not trying to win. Baalke leaked that Tomsula was going to be fired before his last game, so Jed should just keep his word and part ways with him.
However, I still believe the Niners are a talented team. Too bad the coaching sucked last year, but with Chip, Kaep has a great opportunity to play in a system that will enhance his capabilities.
If Chip can get Kaep to buy into his scheme, they may get to 10-6. If Kaep is gone, then a 5-11 season is probable.
Seb, I like your positive thinking. Kelly and the 49ers has a lot of work to do and holes to fill in the 49ers defense and OL lineup. It’s not going to take overnight like when Harbaugh took over a great young talented 49ers team that Singletary molded, especially the 49ers stout defense he assembled. It’s going to be hard for the 49ers to replace those once talented aging players who retired, free agency, injury and etc.
Um, Singletary did not mold that team. Scot McCloughan built that team. Singletary could not coach his way out of a paper bag.
Singletary was once a great player in the NFL, but being head coach is over his head.
Goodnight Seb !
G’nite.
So there is a chance that Demarco Ware might not be back with Denver. What do you guys think about signing him up for a one-year rental. Given the current market and since I think many teams will lock up any good free agent pass rushers, I think the 49ers should at least consider it. I think the choice would really make sense if we were a playoff bound team just missing a few pieces. Since that’s not the case, it might not make sense to invest in a guy that maybe has a year or two left. He does currently have an $11.67 million cap figure with the Broncos.
He is talented, but I would pass on him. Besides, he probably would not want to come here.
I see that the Niners and Kaep’s representatives will be having a meeting during the Combine week. Hopefully, everything will be settled. My guess is that they will either anoint him as the starter, or he walks. If they ask for a cut in salary, he walks. If they try to trade him, he will declare he will not play for that team and demand a release from his contract.
Hopefully, both sides will realize that Kaep’s best chance to succeed will be with Chip and his system. However, after the treatment they gave him, I would not be surprised if he walks.
I’m with you Seb, for all of our sakes, Kap, please walk!
All the great Qb’s like Joe Montana, A. Rodgers and Brady make’s young average receivers play good. Qb’s like Kaepernick make’s goods wide receivers look horrible and bewilder players when they’re on field with CK. :)
Whaaaaaaat? Seb, you really think Kelly’s going to anoint Kap the starter before he even starts working on the field and in the film room with him and Blaine?
Oh my, the elevator doesn’t reach all the floors in your head, does it Seb? Just when I think your starting to get it, you blow me away with some shortsighted comment that makes absolutely ZERO logical sense.
49, I concede that every position should have competition. However, I think Kaep will out compete Gabbert.
Gabbert has a record of 5-27, and has never even sniffed the playoffs. Kaep has a 4-2 road playoff record and has played in a SB.
It makes perfect sense to allow an injured player to regain his starting job, and it would be preferable to have the 12 mil QB start and let the 2 mil backup be supportive.
I would keep Gabbert happy by allowing him to play a few snaps each game. Heck, maybe he could play a whole series of downs. Kaep may benefit by watching from the side lines, and studying the defensive alignments.
I would go so far as to make it competitive during games. Each QB would get his chance. The QB will continue playing until he fails to score, then the other QB will get to play until the team has to punt.
This would be a huge incentive to keep scoring.
Ian Rapoport is now reporting that Colin Kaepernick is now “more than open” to playing in San Francisco in 2016. Doesn’t logic suggest that Colin is realizing he doesn’t have the leverage to force the 49ers hand during combine week, with multiple QB prospects getting set to perform, and a starting QB in Blaine Gabbert already on the teams roster, getting paid relative pittens? Isn’t it more likely that Colin is realizing his stock isn’t as high as he was hoping (wishful thinking considering his recent performance and injury status) and that the best thing for his career is to suck it up and start acting like he’s confident he can win his job back this season. After all, he’s under contract, coming off the worst season and a half of his young career, and has disclosed multiple injuries which he has recently undergone surgery for?
I do believe the 49ers are genuine when they talk about a fresh start for everyone. However, it’s still also a business, and Trent and Chip are going to do what they think is best for the team first. I think they would like Colin to compete for the starting job, but Colin has to show to them that HE wants to be there and compete. His health status is still a major obstacle at this point. Whatever it ends up looking like, I just hope it works out best for all parties involved, but first and foremost, I want what’s best for the 49ers as a team! And there is an “I” in the name Kaepernick, but there is no “I” in the word team! Start acting like a team player, or step aside and let the next man up compete! Piss or get off the pot! Sounds like Colin is starting to get it.
Mid: I found this to be a good read. I think Branch provides some good historical perspective. However, I don’t understand why he believes Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith are potential OLB selections for the 49ers. Not in a 3-4 defense.
Possibly the 49ers have their receiver in Rogers (CFL) and may choose pass rusher
All that matters to me, Gabbert is 2 years YOUNGER than Colin and more mature to boot. Gabbert has the quicker release and a better understanding of how to read defenses and pull the trigger. Blame him all you want for the short throws on 3rd down but its as much on the OC to call plays that have the WRs running past the sticks and its on the WRs to actually run past or to the sticks….Gabbert cant just throw a 7 yard pass when the WR runs only 5 yards.
49er’s have problems at QB–it’s undeniable. The bar is so incredibly low that watching Goff read through his progressions quickly and hitting the open man is refreshing.\
Currently, the 49er’s have no one with that capability.
Hitting the open man CONSISTENTLY.
MJ,
The age is irrelevant unless the younger player has shown evidence of being better and so far that isn’t the case. What we saw from Gabbert last year was a caretaker mentality at the position. Playing it safe and not scoring anymore on average than they did with Kap. We can blame the OC and WR’s,,but if you do so then you have to allow that for Kap as well. The bottom line is it’s questionable whether we have a QB on the roster we can win a SB with or even get back to the playoffs with for that matter, but in comparing the two, one has a much better resume and history and it’s not Gabbert.
What we saw was a QB who put up better numbers, had 3 wins (to Kaeps 2) and was a guy who was a total reclamation project. Kaep was coddled and given every opportunity to succeed and has digressed…Gabbert failed from the start and when referenced it was always as a joke yet he overcame that, worked on his craft and has shown a lot more than Colin did last year.
I’ll take the fighter over the man who puts headphones on and would rather run sprints than open his playbook.
And he’s 2 years younger and about 14 million less.
Gabbert wasn’t very good though. He had better numbers but most of it was empty meaningless stat padding with few positive results on the field. There is no doubt Kap took a major step back this past season. His confidence was shot, but you don’t base decisions on small pieces of information, you base them on every piece you can find. As I mentioned, Gabbert’s history is not good and it wasn’t all that good last year even though you are believing otherwise. Gabbert hasn’t come remotely close to achieving the level of play Kap has previously. Kap may never achieive it again either, I don’t know, but at least I know he’s been there and done it unlike Gabbert.
The other stuff you said about taking the fighter over the guy with headphones is nonsense. You can say a lot of things about Kap but there aren’t many guys in the league as competitive as he is. As to the rumors about the playbook, funny that Harbaugh got some pretty good play out of him and has never mentioned anything about a lack of interest in studying the playbook or watching film. He has no reason to keep heaping empty praise on Kap yet he still talks glowingly about him. Instead of taking gossip as gospel look at what those closest to him say about him.
Rocket
If Kap was as competitive as everyone says, why didn’t he learn from his mistakes and correct them in moving ahead instead of regressing ?
Also when Kaep was unceremoniously jerked from the field of play for Gabbert, he had the advantage of having worked for 2+ years taking snaps with the first team, whereas Gabbert had been playing off to the side with the scrubs until called in to put out the fire.
As to Gabberts ‘short’ throws, he hit his receivers in the hands before they got to the sticks. I expect a whole lot better this year in our passing game
If being competitive was all it took to achieve success, more people would be successful. It’s hard playing QB in this league and even more so for a QB who completely changed his way of playing the position once he was drafted. Gabbert played better than Kap last year but that’s because Kap fell to a level that couldn’t get much lower. It wasn’t a case of Gabbert playing well. More a case of playing competently and cautiously while not improving the offense much in terms of points. It doesn’t matter how well he throws the ball if he is throwing it short and not converting 3rd downs.
The problem is that Kaeps descendence is that it wasn’t just 2015…it was 2014 and 2013 and lots of 2012. Look at his performance as a whole, he has a handful of very good games but mostly average and a lot of poor games, games where he did nothing to elevate the team and get them the win (if they won or lost). I don’t see him going back and improving, he’s just not that player, he’d rather be in the gym or on the grass working on his physicality instead of his mental side.
Nobody is arguing he is inconsistent. What gets overlooked is that it is inconsistency, and not a complete downward spiral. Kap’s biggest problem is string good games together instead of scattering them. Obviously he needs to become a better QB in terms of his pocket awareness and accuracy, but consistency from week to week in what he does well would be a major improvement.
Oregoniner, Maybe Kaepernick is really not that good of a Qb, The way I see it, what contributed to his early success the 1st year because of the good young talented players surrounding him at that time. The 49ers stout defense were always in the rescue when CK and the 49ers offense struggled. The good running game of Gore and HC Harbaugh was a big factor as well. And offensive line was awesome. Now, that all those factors are not there anymore to cover Kaepernick deficiency, he can’t hide his bad performance anymore and it shows how terrible he is as a starting Qb. :)
Seb, I’m not a CK hater, just saying whet i see in his ability and performances.
Great points Jam. For #7 to be successful he needs an elite defense, offense and special teams and an all world coach. And the ticker, he makes franchise QB money. Now tell me if that’s a good deal?
Kaepernick is getting paid as a franchise Qb It’s a good deal for Ck and his agent. But for Baalke and the owner Jed they think they got a good deal also. That’s why the 49ers aren’t going anywhere until both dumb and dumber sells the team to a smarter ownerships.
Although Rogerswas cut by the Cowboys in summer camp for lack of speed
Carlos Hyde, also from Ohio State, is a punishing runner who absorbs too much punishment to handle a 250-carry workload. With Elliott, Chip Kelly could have a potent backfield to employ his run-heavy attack. The Eagles ranked seventh in 3 seasons under Kelly.
Branch brought that up in a discussion of potential first round prospects the 49ers might consider. He mentioned Ezekiel Elliott given Hyde’s punishing style, and Kelly’s running game.
I don’t expect the 49ers to use a first round pick on a running back, but could we see it happen?
2016 NFL Scouting Combine: Why Vernon Adams Needs to Have a Breakout Day
I propose the 49ers think about trading down– out of #7. Swap 1st round positions, Pick up an additional 2nd rounder, take a pass rusher with their 1st pick, swap 2nd round positions, picking up and additional late 3rd rounder and draft Vernon Adams. Receivers could be found later in the draft–if needed.
University of Oregon quarterback Vernon Adams is gaining traction leading up to the 2016 Scouting Combine and NFL Draft. Adams’ participation in the 2016 East-West Shrine Game spurred the continuing momentum of his draft stock
Late QB candidate for #49ers? Mel Kiper Jr. mentioned Oregon’s Vernon Adams in 4th Rd and Arkansas’ Brandon Allen in the 5th.
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@mattbarrows
Walsh never drafted a D-II Quarterback for good reason. The week in, week out completion drop off is too severe.
Baalke’s consistent offensive draft failures make the selection of Wentz an unsound choice.
NFL mock draft 2016: Pre-combine mock goes quarterback to 49ers
let’s take a look at Dan Kadar’s latest 2016 NFL mock draft at SB Nation. Kadar has the San Francisco 49ers grabbing North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz with the seventh pick
Tom, Wentz is not a Div 2 Qb. He is a Div1 FCS Qb, he comes from the same level as Joe Flacco and Jerry Rice.
I’d take a flyer on Everett Golson in the 6th/7th or UDFA. The dudes got the arm and speed, just wonder if he has the ability to overcome his turnover issues.
MJ this next comment is coming from the heart of a Notre Dame fan. Golson? NO,NO, NO and HELL NO. imho
Again…in the 6th or 7th or UDFA, why not? I watched every snap he played at ND, well maybe not every one, but the guy, in 2 season, racked up 41 passing tds, 14 rushing TDs, helped guide them to a NT game, got them to a bowl game in 2014….and is not named Tommy Rees.
Yea, I live in South Bend and Golson is still in the doghouse around here….
Why is he in the doghouse? I know he had that academic issue in 2013, but I mean with the way Malik started,and how well Deshone filled in this year (which will be interesting to see play out this spring), after Everett left, I don’t see the problem anymore.
And I know it won’t happen but I’d love to see Fuller get picked up by SF, but hard to see him making it out of the 1st and wr is probably 4th or 5th biggest issue for SF.
MJ,
I was joking, in the 6th rd with 4 picks what the hell, I can let bygones be bygones.
Holy cow Grant, I think I am going to start calling you the arsonist. “CK should be the starter in 2016” talk about throwing gasoline on the fire. I’m surprised some of the posters haven’t started a mutiny but then again you certainly put yourself on Seb’s Christmas list.
;p
I would not have Seb on my Christmas list because he wants the 49ers to lose, constantly forcing his talent barren players, Kap and Hayne on us.
Thanks Coach–haven’t followed them since UC Davis engaged them in D11.
However, Walsh traded in front of Dallas for Rice…Obviously he spotted something, right.
Walsh also signed 4 time Pro Bowler Jeff Garcia out of San Jose St.–not a powerhouse.
It’s all about whose pulling the strings, and Baalke has proven nothing, offensively
Notice Adams keeping his head downfield while scrambling and still hitting his receiver in stride.
Kap freaks out if his 1st read is covered and scrambles for yardage because he’s too awkward in the NFL dancestep requiring a QB to keep eyes downfield and evade pass rushers without looking at them and still completing a pass.
Signing Alshon will be just as effective as signing Torrey was. You can’t put the cart before the horse. Let’s get a QB before we worry about whether or not our receivers are any good.
Last time I checked, the 49ers have Kaepernick and Gabbert under contract. Jeffery is not worth what he’ll be asking for because he can’t stay on the field….
His rookie season and last season are the ones where he couldn’t stay on the field. Jeffrey made Cutler look better than what he is. He’s easily worth the gamble.
The 49ers have plenty of receivers right now, and there will be good value prospects late. Such as Roger Lewis and Jalin Marshall….
Plenty of receivers that don’t fit the type of WR Kelly has usually employed on offense or have done squat when they have been given the chance. Also, no a true #1 WR in the group.
I found it quite telling that he wanted to make Eric Rogers his first signing, and he fits the Chip Kelly prototype. That was the 49ers F/A move for the WR position. I would be very surprised if they signed another….
It was a typically Baalke move where he signs a free agent that is low risk – high reward. It was more of the status quo.
Don’t think so. Rogers visited 15 teams, and Kelly called him personally to tell him he wanted him to be his first signing….
And that makes Rogers the answer at WR? If that’s the case, then I’m predicting the 49ers WR corps to be a worse fir for Kelly’s scheme than I first thought.
*fit
Apparently Chip Kelly thinks he could be, but what does he know?
Hard to say since he was fired from the Eagles after three seasons and only the 49ers wanted him.
MWD
Niners have 5 WRs under contract who are at least 6’2″ and run 4.5 40s; that’s exactly the Chip Kelly WR. None of them has played, but the 49ers haven’t had a competent passing game since Mariucci was the team’s HC.
Campbell, Anderson, White, Smelter, and Rogers will all factor this season.
A good number of those WRs either don’t fit the mold, have done nothing to show they can be the answer, or are just raw.
MWD
You keep saying they don’t “fit the mold,” but you haven’t stated what that “mold” is, that I can tell. As far as I’ve learned, Chip likes big, physical WRs, and the 5 I listed are just that.
Yes, they are raw, but they have played under incompetent coaches at the NFL level, so we don’t know. Add those guys to Ellington, Patton, and Smith, and you have 8 WRs that are now 49ers veterans.
You’re just flat wrong about them not fitting the mold, until you show otherwise, but yes, they are all raw, as are 99% of young WRs. They’re better than spending another $10M on a WR who is only good, and often injured. If Josh Gordon is made available, different story; 49ers should definitely pursue him.
Sorry Chip, but you’re easily in the wrong here.
Let’s start with White. He’s 6′ and weighs 192 lbs. How exactly does he fit the mold of a big and physical WR?
Next is Campbell. He’s 6’2″ and weighs 206 pounds, so he fits the big part, but there’s absolutely nothing to indicate that he has a physical aspect to his game.
Anderson is as being 6’2″ and weighing only 190 lbs; there are also serious questions on whether the knee injury he suffered during his final collegiate year will hamper him going forward.
Smelter is a guy I really like and can’t wait to see hit the field, but he has only two years of football under his belt and is very injury-prone, so expecting an immediate and productive contribution from him is borderline ridiculous.
Finally, there’s Rogers who has not done anything at the NFL level for him to even being as the fix that some on here believe.
You ask me to state the mold and then go on to describe it in the following sentence. I find that as ironic as people believing our current WR corps meet the needs of Kelly’s offense. Smith is the only WR that truly meets the criteria while the others are raw or under performing #3 WRs at best. Claiming otherwise otherwise is only denying the obvious truth.
…even being considered…
Last time I checked neither one of those QB’s was worthy of being considered a starter.
Pay no attention to Grant’s postulation about keeping Kaepernick for the next season. After one of the QB’s runs a fast 40 time this weekend he’ll change his stance and insist that that rookie is who our starter should be. And it’ll probably be someone else a couple weeks after that.
Last time I checked Kaepernick assisted in getting the team to the Super Bowl, and another couple NFC Championship games. Oh, there was that frozen tundra win at Lambeau Field. The mental toughness and intestinal fortitude to go in and win that game was an example of Harbaugh’s mighty men. Oh yea, and then he went in and helped knock out the Panthers at their house. You are not worth Ted to carry Gabbert’s jock strap, let alone Kaepernick’s….
Last time I checked Kaepernick assisted in getting the team to the Super Bowl, and another couple NFC Championship games. Oh, there was that frozen tundra win at Lambeau Field. The mental toughness and intestinal fortitude to go in and win that game was an example of Harbaugh’s mighty men. Oh yea, and then he went in and helped knock out the Panthers at their house. You are not worth Ted to carry Gabbert’s jock strap, let alone Kaepernick’s….
Last time I checked it was nearly 3 years since Kaepernick had that success and he’s regressed every year since to the point of losing his job.
Last I checked, Baalke wants Kaepernick healthy to compete against Gabbert for the unworthy role of starter, Ted….
Razor, you’re pissing in the wind. Keep polishing Kaep’s knob if you feel compelled to, I’m sure Seb will love to join in.
That’s some compelling insight and advise Ted, but I have to say, I don’t value it. Thanks anyways….
Last time I checked Grossman assisted the Bears to the Super Bowl and an NFC championship game. Should we sign him too?
Should we sign anyone that’s had success in the past regardless of how they’ve played over the past few seasons?
Last I checked Grossman isn’t under contract for the 49ers, Ted….
Try standing up and maybe you wont have so much go over your head.
Ted, you have nothing on Confucius. Maybe you should start your own fortune cookie company….
Yeah, cause Grossman ran for 181 yards and accounted for 440 total yards beating Rodgers in his own house. Idiot. Grossman. Don’t be a fool if you want people to take you seriously.
It’s always fun when someone who completely misses the point calls someone else an idiot. It wasn’t about stats, it was about basing the QB’s pedigree on what he did in the past versus what he’s done lately. Idiot.
Here you go Silicon Derp, since everything needs to be spelled out for ya; “Should we sign anyone that’s had success in the past regardless of how they’ve played over the past few seasons?”
Ted
You are a repugnant fool. You brought Rez Fuggin Grossman into this conversation, so yeah, you’re an idiot.
And whatever you think your point was, you obviously couldn’t get it across your first time, but since you now say it’s about what have you done for me lately, what did Rex Grossman ever do? Nothing, ever. So what has Kaep done recently? Played injured for the worst coach in the history of the NFL behind the worst OL in the history of the NFL and still have a season on par with Andrew Luck, who is going to soon sign a “shocking” contract extension.
Cool your jets, jackarse.
I’ll bet when Gabbert makes you eat your words it will be because Kelly made him better because of the system and players around him.
This is the bottom line. The 49ers won a lot because of defense and the running game behind a good offensive line. There is no way anybody in their right mind can come to the comclusion that a horrible qb like ck will do better than a mediocre qb like Gabbert at this point. Here’s all I had to see. Last season… That’s it! Ck is done! And Gabbert is on the rise. If he played better with the same team around him he will probably play better with a better team around him. You saw what Denver did to Carolina and Newton. The option is a thing of the past and thinking that bringing it back will help ck is a joke! The day ck stands in a takes hits while delivering a ball is the day I’ll say he’s improved. The day he can hit a 5 yard pass is the day I’ll say he’s improved, the day he stands back there and can go through more than his first read and not see ghosts, is the day I’ll say he’s improved. They will plummet further into the abyss with CK! Gabberts upside> Than the ck show! No thanks! Gabbert will be your starter and will plunkett the Bay Area like JIMBO did in the 80’s! Watch and book it!
Niner I am with Grant in one area, Gabbert stinks. The plays were there down field, he just never made them this season. It wasn’t coaching or play calling, it was him. I think it’s foolish to believe Gabbert will be any better than we’ve seen him. I also don’t expect any of these QB’s in this draft to pan out immediately into great QB’s. Both of these things show how desperate we are that we are willing to buy into unproven production from QB’s who’ve never played a down of NFL football and a QB he throws behind the sticks more than nearly any QB in football. Kelly might be able to do something with Gabbert, BUT Sanchez, Foles, Bradord, Vick are all better QB’s in their previous play than Gabbert has ever shown before Kelly started working with them. Gabbert has a quick release but he’s as bad as Kaep in that he goes right to the check down quickly. Do you really think we can win with that? At least Kaep knew where the down markers were.
Ehhh. He knew where the down markets were? I saw him time and time again lose yardage while running and not throwing the ball away and ending up behind the LOS!
Heck at least Gabbert can complete those short passes. My take is Gabbert was basically a rookie last year with an advantage of experience. Sounds funny but the dude had even less talent around him in Jax. A first rd pick they tried to force to save the franchise.
I would pick Gabbert first because he has the mentality and brains to play the position. I just don’t think ck is fast enough in that department. I’m not saying it’s a huge difference between the two but the money owed is. Last season was supposed to be the season ck finally got it. It was his worst season yet, Gabbert however had his best. Although it wasn’t probowl caliber it was still an improvement. Idk for some reason I can see Gabbert flourish with the right system and coaching.
Ck and the option will fade away like it’s been doing since Baltimore laid out the blueprint.
And I totally agree with the draft, this is why I say go defense heavy and let a year tick away for the offense. Seriously couldn’t get any worse than last season.
Ninermd, did you see Scooter’s post at the top of this thread bout Kaep’s throws to the sticks? So he knew better than Gabbert. Gabbert stinks. Stop making excuses for him that you nail people for making on behalf of Kaep. Gabbert’s only quick to throw to check downs and hot routes. Stop with the rookie stuff, it’s lame. Jacksonville is loaded with 1st round picks, they’re terrible still.
Scooter
I think Kaep’s average pass on third down being 0.7 yards past the marker and Gabbert’s being well before the marker answer that to some degree
Enough is enough taking a running Qb in the draft. We need a smart talented mobile Qb that can throw the football accurately from the pocket with a quick release and knows where his open receivers are, and knows what the opposing defense are trying to implement. Why not used the #7 spot in the draft for one of top Qb in the draft. Build his supporting cast around him with the 11 remaining choice in the drafts for 2016. The main thing is to get a Signal caller that we need to turn the pages to success and perhaps win the SB in two years.
Yes, we have Qb name C. Kaepernick that you guys say has lots of skill set, he can throw 60 yds and he can run with the football. But he lacks the knowledge to recognize opposing defense adjustment to him and his very poor finding where his open receivers are and when he gets flushed out of the pocket he start running or getting sack This guy had a lot of chance winning with this good talented group of guys, and when some of his supporting cast retired and some went on to FA it got worse for him. The bottom line is, he just don’t have it.
Seb, sorry I’m not a CK hater, I’m just telling what I see with this guy CK poor performances. Just don’t make an excuse he almost won a SB because of he HC fault he got denied.
Aaron Rodgers isn’t in this draft….
No he is not.
However, the way the 49ers can build a defense at times, Goff, who can go through his progressions, or Adams all look better at this stage than any of the 49er QB’s.
The bar is so low that anyone who can make one read only seems to be acceptable.
Jamaican, how about a dose of reality? There’s no QB in this draft that can take this team to the SB in 2 years or even 4 years. If we’re in the playoffs in 2 years that will be a success. This team needs talent in a lot of places.
Wilson, you need to start somewhere and take your best shot. But if you’re still living in a stone age era and not trying to do something new to get a positive result, and then you’ll get the same negative result. You need a reality check::)
By the way, 1) Jared Goff, 2) Carson Wentz, 3) Paxton Lynch are going to be great QB’s in the NFL. This guys are NFL ready Qb’s and CK has reach his ceiling. :)
Jamaican, let’s come back to this in 4 years. Think about the drafts with Cam, Kaep and Dalton, Gabbert, Ponder, Maziel. On and on on we hope these guys will be the next Brady, Montana or Manning. Even Luck and RGIII didn’t pan out. These guys are all hype right now and nothing more. But hope away in unproven people. ITs wishful thinking.
Well, when you called him a douche bag, I saw a glimmer of hate, at least.
Maiocco’s Projected Draft Pics:
1. First round: Own pick, No. 7 overall
2. Second round: Own pick, No. 36 overall
3. Third round: Own pick, No. 69 overall
4. Fourth round: Own pick, No. 7 pick in round
5. Fourth round: Projected compensatory selection*
6. Fifth round: Own pick, No. 5 pick in round
7. Fifth round: San Diego pick acquired from 2015 draft trade-back, No. 3 pick in round
8. Fifth round: Projected compensatory selection*
9. Sixth round: Dallas pick acquired from 2015 draft trade-back, No. 3 pick in round
10. Sixth round: Denver pick acquired in trade for TE Vernon Davis, No. 32 pick in round
11. Sixth round: Projected compensatory* selection*
12. Sixth round: Projected compensatory selection*
Chip Kelly is not scheduled to have a press conference at the NFL scouting combine. He would be the first 49ers coach to not take part.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence….
Smart move. Less leaks with less said.
I think it’s kind of cowardly. He’ll have to address Mathis’ comments sooner or later. By choosing later, it will linger and smell….
Razor
Cowardly ~!? What in the hell are you getting at ? You’ve had hair across your fanny all week….you’re better than this….
Is it Kelly being cowardly or is it the front office putting on Kelly?
There’s two sides to every debacle and I’m very concerned about Chip repeating the same mistakes. I’d like to hear Chip Kelly’s side and how he plans on avoiding the issues Mathis raised going forward. Instead, the F/O and Chip have decided not to put themselves in position to address the matter….
Why does he need to address Mathis? Mathis is obviously a disgruntled former player who has an axe to grind, and Chip Kelly’s record speaks for itself.
Beside, the Broncos ate the Panthers alive, and they were 17-1, and a lot of people thought they were the best team in the NFL.
Besides, Chip has a completely different roster now, and hopefully QB with better functional mobility than the motley crew of statuesque QB’s he had in Phily!
I read that article, what do you think Razor? I think of guys like Sherman who hated JH as a coach. Then you’ve got guys like Luck who like him. I wonder how much of Mathis’s perspective is true and what’s a sour perspective?
Seems like a couple things I question in Mathis’s statements. He calls Kelly’s offense vanilla. Did he pay attention to the Bronco’s offense this year? Pretty vanilla if you ask me. Seems to knock his credibility to me. I don’t doubt Kelly has a short leash for guys who think they’re bigger than the scheme. I also don’t doubt he’ll struggle with certain temperaments. I think it’s a stretch though for Mathis to say he couldn’t have coached the Broncos. Those offensive guys bought into and played in a scheme that didn’t highlight their strengths as an offense. That says something about the coaching and the willingness of the players to put the squad firsts. Kelly could be as bad as they say, but we don’t really have any over the top personalities.
Treadwell will not run the 40, which tells me he’s probably a 4.6 guy….
It definitely tells me his 40 time is of concern to him.
Maybe, but it could also be that he doesn’t want to risk an injury running the 40 since he had to come back from a broken fibula and dislocated ankle.
I think that is extremely unlikely to be the reason. He has played a full season since that injury. If he’s worried a 40 yard dash will re-injure it at this point then I think every team should be put on notice about his ability to stay healthy.
True, but we’ve also seen a good number of players pull up when running the 40 and he could be trying to avoid that happening.
That’s laughable. You cannot be serious MWD!
Think about it. If he suffers an leg injury at the Combine, that would be his second injury related to his legs and would raise the question of his durability.
Now does that mean that is the reason? No, but it also can’t be ruled out.
He already has durability concerns and why will he run it at his Pro Day? Is that the day he won’t be afraid of pulling his hammy? Why even show up at the combine and do any drills, if he’s that concerned?
Pulling up while running the 40 would only enhance questions about his durability, no?
Sure, just as choosing not to do it because he’s afraid he’ll pull his hammy. I hope that’s not the reason he’s giving scouts. It’s not, because he’s already stated that he wants to devote training time to it, so he can be fast on his Pro Day….
Which is fine. I was merely suggesting another possibility. Also, please don’t pose a possibility and dismiss it in the same breath.
The point is, he’s afraid of testing slow, not pulling his hammy. For the love of God~!
No, the point is that I posed one of a few possibilities for the heck of it and you chose to show bad taste while proposing and dismissing a possibility in the same breath.
That explains it. I though you were serious….
Of course not! ;-)
We seriously need a sarcasm font.
Maybe Ted needs one too?
Nah, he just needs another Airplane movie to star in.
They made a third Airplane movie, it was called The Naked Gun and that hack Leslie Nielsen got my role!
Whatever, at least I don’t have a drinking problem. Besides, Priscilla Presley is way hotter then Julie Hagerty.
Based on his film and without running a timed 40 yard dash he’s the consensus #1 WR. What reason does he have to run at the combine. If his film and college stats are enough for pretty much every draft site to consider him the top WR prospect what can he gain by running the 40?
Aren’t you one that usually says that players are picked based on their film, not how they run in their underwear?
He’s not running it because he’ll test slow. That’s why he’s devoting training time to it so he can mitigate it at his Pro Day, where he plans to do it. With respect to the combine, it’s a good complimentary scouting tool….
Regardless of the theories the fact of the matter is that he’s not running because he doesn’t have to. When you are already considered the #1 choice how is it going to improve your stock especially when that isn’t what teams are basing their choice off of anyway. Why go out and risk a hammy when you’re already the #1 choice? If he runs at his pro day I’m pretty sure it wont be anything to be impressed by and no on will care.
If he’s afraid of pulling a hammy, I’d have to question his constitution….
And if that’s the case, why even show up and do any drills. He could break a nail….
Really, so only weak constitution receivers pull their hammies? Healthy receivers don’t strain or pull their ham strings when their trying to run fast or hard?
I wouldn’t get your panties in a bunch over it, Ted. There will be plenty of receivers, running backs, cornerbacks who will not be afraid of pulling their hammy. They will compete and make themselves money, or not….
So begins the repair of a broken relationship between the 49ers and Kaepernick. May the weeping and gnashing of teeth begin:
Though I’d rather not think about it, you have to wonder if the fact he’ll earn more playing for the 49ers in 2016 than with another team is the main reason he’s willing to return and not the possibility of Kelly revitalizing his career after reaching a low point in 2015.
You mean like Alex Smith did with Harbaugh?
Different circumstances entirely. Harbaugh convinced Smith to stay; we have yet to hear anything from Kelly about wanting Kaepernick to stay.
You’re right, one is under contract and the other shopped himself around, before finding out his best shot was with Harbaugh….
Which time are you talking about Razor: 2011 or 2012?
He visited Miami in 2012 and came back knowing his best shot was returning to Harbaugh….
Okay, but the circumstances are still different Razor. I don’t recall the front office trying to discredit Smith during that process.
I don’t recall Kaepernick saying he didn’t want to play for the 49ers….
That wasn’t even close to what I said.
Though I’d rather not think about it, you have to wonder if the fact he’ll earn more playing for the 49ers in 2016 than with another team is the main reason he’s willing to return and not the possibility of Kelly revitalizing his career after reaching a low point in 2015.
“the main reason he’s willing to return”? Sounds like someone is convinced he didn’t or doesn’t want to return to me. Or is this another fun musing?
We’re getting our wires crossed here Razor. This thread has gone from talking about me wondering about Kaepernick’s in regards to returning to play for the 49ers to you bringing up Smith to me saying the circumstances were different and us chatting a little while on that to suddenly going back to what I said in my first post.
Since we’re back to discussing my first post in this thread, I can reply by repeating that I didn’t say that Kaepernick did or didn’t want to play for the 49ers; instead, I was indicating money could be his motive for for being open to playing for the 49ers in 2016 despite how how the front office tried to discredit him.
Fair enough
Dear Kaep, I know you probably will not read this, but I have to write it this way to tick off folks, so here goes.
First of all, I hope you are not like Jed and hears these blog messages loud and clear. Stay off media because it is a distraction, and a huge time waste.
Please spend most of your free time studying to get better. You should study the team chalkboard sessions with Bill Walsh. Put them on loop so you can watch and learn at any time.
I want to be on record that of all the posters on this blog site, I have been one of the few that like you, and want you to be the Niner QB. I recognize your unique skillsets and think you can win multiple SBs.
I was thrilled with your accomplishments, and looked forward to seeing you in the red and gold, helping the Niners to win games.
I wish to apologize to you for the boorish behavior of the Owner. You have every reason to be peeved, but I hope you have a little forgiveness in your heart, because Jed just did not know better. I do not think he did it maliciously, he just needs to learn to be a man. He was responsible for the leaks, because he opened his mouth and uttered those words. He should have kept his big mouth shut, but could not. Please move on and forgive his slights. I think you are big enough to do it.
I think Jed has somewhat atoned for his sins, because he could have hired Shanahan. Instead, he hired Chip Kelly, and his system is Ideal for your skillsets. Chip will look like a genius if he can resurrect your career, so he is licking his lips and rubbing his hands with glee just thinking of the myriad ways he can use you properly. Finally, Chip has 2 mobile QBs, so he just doubled his playbook.
Your job will be to become unpredictable, and present too many threats for the defense to counter. You should buy into the Chip Kelly up tempo offense, and if you have decent O line play, you should make one of your goals to be to put the ball in the hands of your playmakers. With just a few tweaks, your game can become a nightmare for DCs.
I hope Baalke fulfills his promise to you and re-signs veteran talent. I think Williams Boone and Boldin should be given pay raises that do not break the salary cap.They are needed for leadership, too.
I wish to thank you for all the thrills and victories. I am sorry for the poor coaching that limited you, and the putrid O line play that only succeeded to get you injured. I hope you become a comeback player of the year, and with you leading the Niners, I hope for a 10-6 record and a chance to make the playoffs. GO NINERS!!!!!!
Seb, after reading your long noble, you actually don’t make any sense. You already handing the starting position to CK without consulting Kelly. :) What so funny is, didn’t the 49ers in the last 2 season acquired good players in free agency and surrounded him with great wide receivers to compliment that you said CK skill sets? For one thing there’s nothing unique about Kaepernick skill set. You just don’t get it, his early success is because of the 49ers stout defense, HC Harbaugh , Gores running ability, a good OL and good special team. Without those key ingredients CK is not even an average player. and if you notice after the 49ers great players retired and went on to free agency CK performance was below average. Sorry :)
There’s nothing repairable in the relationship between the 49ers and CK The 49ers management did the right thing in benching Ck for Blaine Gabbert who has more upside than Kaepernick.
Razor, piece of advice don’t get your hope to high that kaep will be back with the 49ers. All those are just speculation after 11/2 years Kelly might have change his mindset on Kaep. But that’s good, you thinking positive especially you love for your hero to stay in the bay area. What If?
Like I’ve told you before, Kaepernick is under contract with the 49ers, and I don’t value your advise. I will continue to support him until he is no longer on the team, while you continue your crusade of carrying the Bucket Full Of Hate for him….
Chip Kelly won’t speak at the combine, but he will speak at his pro day in March.
He’s also expected to run a 2-Cohn Drill, and an EQ obstacle course involving snuggles with a yellow lab puppy and sensitivity meditation.
I just want to hear his response to Mathis’ assertion that the Broncos would eat him for breakfast….
Razor
I’m happy that ‘Chip’ chooses not to dignify that back-alley BS
I expect it to be the first question asked at his next presser, don’t you?
The two main points spelled out in Mathis’ email:
“Two of the main issues that concerned me were: 1. A never-evolving, vanilla offense that forced our own defense to play higher than normal play counts. 2. His impatience with certain personality types even when they were blue-chip talents.
Both are legit. Kelly’s offense was diminishing in effectiveness as time wore on, and he dumped some very good players even though it made his team worse. Players aren’t stupid they can see through this stuff and if they don’t have confidence that the HC can lead them to prosperity or doesn’t have their best interests in mind, they check out. Hopefully Kelly has been humbled enough to rethink his way of doing things and comes in with a new outlook moving forward.
Rocket
1.”A never evolving vanilla offense that forced our own defense to play higher than normal play counts” 2 of the three seasons that he coached the eagles they were 10-6 in the third, he had Mark Sanchez
2. “His impatience with certain personality types even when they were blue-chip talents” Does this mean that you advocate having a ‘team within a team’ ? Coddle the ‘blue-chip talents’…baby-sit the malcontents LaSean, DeSean, Boynton, and Mathis who doesn’t seem to know what side of the fence he’s on from week to week ?
Oregon,
The systems effectiveness decreased each year. We can sit here and discuss the reasons why but that is what happened. We know that Chips system is pretty simple overall and relies more on speed and catching defenses in base to exploit the matchups. Nothing wrong with that, but if defenses are finding ways to mitigate that advantage, it’s up to Chip to evolve and find a new way to operate. I know Chip is smart and that’s why I’m keeping an open mind even though I have serious reservations about this hire, but he has to keep working to stay a step ahead because his offense really is fairly simplistic in nature.
The second point becomes an issue when multiple players are jettisoned and the talent level is diminished because of it. At some point Chip has to accept that some of the problem may lie with him and not just the players. Part of being a HC in the NFL is knowing how to massage egos and personalities. It’s a necessity and if you can’t do it, you are destined to fail. You can’t dump every player who you feel doesn’t fit into your preconceived view of what you want on your team. You have to find ways to make it work because there is no generic makeup of a football player that is going to fit all of your criteria; certainly not 53 times anyway.
Rocket
with Foles and Sanchez and whatzisname for his QB(s), the systems effectiveness would have to decrease. My hope is that we draft, trade for, or find a FA who has what Chip is seeking….They ARE out there, and I’m confident that we will find at least one (I’m not convinced that we don’t already have one in Dylan Thompson) Adams, maybe, but I’m not making book on him yet.
Rocket, don’t mistake me, I respect your opinion, even though we do cross swords from time to time….one of those times is now in my disagreement about massaging egos is not good team building…my solution would be to poll the other 45-50 players on the Eagles…one discontented Olineman doesn’t make a quarum….
Dylan Thompson is nothing more than camp fodder….
Exactly Oregoni, as a matter of fact, when you consider the motley crew of QB’s he had to work with in Philly, none of which were even good fits in his offense, and they still managed to be a prolific offenses, it really speaks to the viability of Chip’s system. And it’s no secret that teams evolve and find ways to exploit another teams weakness. And there is no doubt that Chip’s system will continue to evolve in order to counter the adjustments defenses make. I’ll take the opinion of a guy like Steve Young, who thinks Chip’s offense is prolific, over the opinion of an obviously disgruntled former player who was ultimately released against his will.
In all seriousness, the value of the opinion of one disgruntled player like Mathis, who was clearly unhappy to be released, is hardly even worth the energy that I am using up typing this response.
Razor,
An easy and honest reply to Mathis’ comment would be, The Bronco”s D would have eaten every team in the NFL’s O for breakfast this year. Just ask Cam Newton.
I believe the comment, “eaten alive” was referencing how he managed individual personalities, as well as his “vanilla” offense….
I’ll never forget how Vic Fangio ate Chip Kelly’s offense alive in 2014…
I don’t think any one of us can.
Grant
Are you ever going to get over his first presser ?
EH, one game doesn’t mean squat in the NFL. Look no further than the 49er teams that have been “eaten alive” in one game during the course of CHAMPIONSHIP SEASONS. Outliers happen in the NFL all of the time. “Any given Sunday” as they say.
I can remember during the course of Bill Walsh’s WCO dominance, it seemed every season, and individual player opponent, or even a opposing defensive coordinator would claim that they had figured out the West Coast Offense, and every season, Bill Walsh’s WCO would make adjustments accordingly, resulting in a decade of dominance.
Chip Kelly has been a HC for only 3 seasons. I get the feeling Chip Kelly is just getting started!
Hmm, I thought that the Chipper had already run the 2-Cohn drill (more of an obstacle course) at his introductory presser.
Chip Kelly has a Pro Day?! I’m grabbing some popcorn for that event!
On the eve of the Combine, there are 3 players who I think might break into the top 10. Reggie Ragland, Sheldon Rankins and Leonard Floyd.
Hmm, Antonio Cromartie was waived. Wonder if Baalke would sign him because his brother is on the Niners.
Why would that matter for anything.
Jared Goff,
Analysis
Strengths Quality arm. Makes all the throws and can sling the deep out with velocity and accuracy. Clean release and snaps throws off with flick of the wrist. Drives hips through his release for extra heat. Pocket mobility and poise showed improvement from 2014 to 2015. Maintains proper footwork and readiness to throw as he slides inside the pocket. Speeds up internal clock when he feels pressure or recognizes blitz. Pocket climber. Able to run out of trouble rather than into it. Looks the part of a confident, first round quarterback when working from a clean pocket. Sells his play fakes with purpose and draws linebackers forward. Has learned to expedite his throws from off-balance angles due to pocket pressure. Will throw receivers open in tight quarters. Has excellent trajectory and pillowy soft touch on touch throws down the field that give receivers a chance to make plays.
Tom D, If Jared is gone before the 49ers pick at #7, we can hope that Carson Wentz would be available for the niners. I like this guy Carson Wentz very smart Qb and has a lot of upside playing in the NFL.
Goff, Jared QB 6’4″ 215 California 6.7
Lynch, Paxton QB 6’7″ 245 Memphis 6.4
Wentz, Carson QB 6’5″ 232 North Dakota St. 6.2
Cook, Connor QB 6’4″ 216 Michigan St. 5.8
Hackenberg, Christian QB 6’4″ 228 Penn St. 5.6
Tom,
Do you believe the 49ers will draft a Qb in this years draft? If so, what rd do you think they will draft him in? If you were GM who would you draft and where?
GM Trent Baalke has his criteria, we all know that. The QB bar has been set so low for so long we’ve become used to one read QB’s, novice level passing attacks, and a GM who bases his team’s offensive concept on a brute strength rushing attack–pushing people around.
That worked well when one inherited Scott McClouhan’s defense–now what?…We go to Chip, who at least has a grasp of route concepts. In order to quickly read these concepts and get the ball to the open man (accurately), the 49ers need a QB whose done this–Jared Goff.
However, Chip may want to run his zone read. A more mobile QB is needed. In that case, draft QB, Adams, Univ. of Oregon .
Getting Adams in the late 3rd or early 4th would allow the 49ers to manipulate the draft board downwards, and acquire more picks.
Since it’s do or die for Baalke, I predict he swings for the fences knowing he doesn’t have the time for the downward trade and development scenario. He’ll take Goff if available.
If my job depended on this draft I would select Goff to be safe. If I was Kelly and had more power, I would select Adams.
Let me add that it also helped Trent’s run based offensive philosophy to inherit a Hall of Fame running back who never got injured from Scott McCloughan.
Tom,
I agree. I would take Goff or any of the top QBs if you think they will be a legit starter no later then year 2. I have yet to put my novice eval on he QBs I usually wait until the combine to start my research. Nonetheless, if a stud is there, swing or the fences.
Otherwise, I would use Gabbert as a stop gap and then as you stated maybe take a fun spread option QB that fits Kelly’s office AND JUST AS IMPORTANT…have a good football IQ with mental toughness. Adams, Prescott, perhaps these guys…
I would beef up CK talk and try for a trade otherwise cut him. I like the kid, but the downside is worse then the upside. If I was to risk rate the CK situation the potential for CK sticking around and the entire team going south far outways some “look what JH did for Alex, so Kelly can do it too…” scenario.
Coach will draft a franchise Qb with our #7 pick in the draft. That’s the most logical thing to do for a franchise that’s on a slide. Build around the franchise Qb with the remaining 11 picks we have in the 2016 draft. I’ll give the 49ers 2 years from now to be a winning football team if they draft well and get good veteran players from free agency as well.
FA could be tricky, would you over pay for someone in particular? Maybe Alshon Jeffries at WR, or an OL perhaps? Maybe both…
A lot of Sean Smith chatter… I am more of a pass rush and mediocre CBs person myself. Front 7 all the way!!!
P.S. Before anyone chimes in, I don’t believe in our young WRs. Tory is and always will be a one trick pony. That is fine, we just need to compliment.
I would argue a shut down cornerback is the second most important position on the field….
I am very much with shawn regarding the D. Give me a good pass rush with ok CBs over good CBs with an ok pass rush.
You say that because true shutdown corners are ultra rare. The most difficult position to play on defense. Erasing the opposing teams number one receiver also allows you to roll your coverages. I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal….
Draft day you won’t find another Von Miller, he’s a rare breed of elite pass rushers.
I beg to differ. Noah Spence has been compared to Von Miller recently, but after viewing his film last month, the first name to pop in my mind was Khalil Mack. Now next year, if he can stay healthy, there’s another guy Scooter and I love, by the name of Carl Lawson….
“You say that because true shutdown corners are ultra rare.”
No, I really don’t. I say it because I genuinely believe a strong pass rush is more important than a lock down CB. Actually, to clarify, I believe a strong front 7 that is able to stop the run and rush the passer very well is more important than a lock down CB. It takes more pieces to accomplish, but I think it is essential to consistent strong play by the D.
I think Revis helped out the Patriots with that championship in 2015 and I don’t remember them having an elite pass rusher….38 Sacks?
Same with the ’94 Niners, I don’t remember a dominant pass rush but I do remember Sanders erasing Irvin to get them there….33.5 Sacks?
Pass rush is a far more valuable tool to a defense because of how many passes that end up going to receivers that are even being defended by a corner back. What good is a shut down corner if the offense is dumping it off to the TE in the middle of the field?
Did the Broncos beat Brady and Cam with shutdown corners or a vicious pass rush?
“that are even”
Sorry, that AREN’T even…
The Broncos happened to have both. They had the best secondary in the league and they exposed their wide receivers just like I said they would, Ted….
They had a good secondary overall but nobody is calling their CB’s shutdown corners. When the game was over was it the secondary everyone was talking about or the pass rush?
Only two receivers are going to be covered by corners but you can have 4 or 5 offensive targets on the field. Having a strong pass rusher will be more valuable on more plays then having shutdown corner.
Oh Ted, you really stepped in it there. For five weeks in 2013, CHJr didn’t give up a score. Then all of 2014. All of it. Then the first 13 weeks of 2015. It had been more than two calendar years since anyone—anyone at all—scored a touchdown against Harris. Ted, if that’s not a shut down corner, why don’t you enlighten everyone on here just what the hell is….
If you want to make it a debate about what a shutdown corner is because you realize that you can’t argue with the fact that a pass rusher is more valuable then a shutdown corner then by all means go ahead and try and change the subject.
If you can find an article that calls the Broncos cornerbacks shutdown corners then I’ll gladly say your right in that regard but that wasn’t what this discussion was about.
An elite pass rusher will be involved and have the ability to make an impact on more plays then a shutdown corner, there’s no question which player individually is more valuable to a defense.
They had a good secondary overall but nobody is calling their CB’s shutdown corners. When the game was over was it the secondary everyone was talking about or the pass rush?
….”but nobody their CB’s shutdown corners”. Them be your words of worthless wisdom Ted. Not mine, not Seb’s, Yours!
I don’t need you or Vince Lombardi to tell me CHJr is a shutdown corner. You know why? Because he is!
Ted, you’re entitled to believe what you want, but your belief is unbelievable….
Clearly you’ve conceded that you’re wrong about the shutdown corner being more valuable then the pass rusher otherwise you wouldn’t be trying so hard to change the subject.
Ted, you’re scaring me….
“I think Revis helped out the Patriots with that championship in 2015 and I don’t remember them having an elite pass rusher….38 Sacks?”
A top notch CB can of course help you win a championship, but if you don’t think the Patriots had a good front 7 there isn’t much point for us progressing this discussion. That front 7 was plenty good, even if it did “only” get 38 sacks (or 40, whatever it was). They created pressure in multiple ways, and they stopped the run. And that is how you develop a consistently good D.
Same with the 49ers in ’94. That D was dominant up the middle with Young and Stubblefield causing havoc against the pass and stopping the run.
I think we’ve established you can read Ted, but apparently it’s selective.
“I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal”
Now Ted, I can’t at this time, give you the kind of therapy to resolution you need to solve all your problems, and you know why. I’m in South Bend and you live in the state of confusion. Go see Dr. Marvin and suggest Lithium as a more effective managing tool and maybe that will help….
I think we’ve established you can read Ted, but apparently it’s selective.
“I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal”
Now Ted, I can’t at this time, give you the kind of therapy to resolution you need to solve all your problems, and you know why. I’m in South Bend and you live in the state of confusion. Go see Dr. Marvin and suggest Lithium as a more effective managing tool and maybe that will help….
Yea, I never said they didn’t have a good front seven, but I did say they had a shut down corner….
Yep, Bryant Young was the Rookie Of The Year, and Prime Time was Defensive Player Of The Year….
So both teams had a good front 7 and a shut down CB… in a discussion of what is more important I don’t think either example really demonstrates one way or another.
I think it is very rare for a consistently high quality defense to not have a good front 7 that can stop the run and rush the passer, but a high quality defense can get by without a shutdown CB. Though obviously you still need to have a good enough secondary – a bad secondary will get exposed.
Yea Scooter, every time we visit this discussion, we end up in the same place. I value a strong front seven and you value a strong front seven. I value a shutdown corner and you value it less.
“I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal”….
We agree but it’s a convoluted agreement…; > )
“I think we’ve established you can read Ted”
I wouldn’t be so sure of that because I’m forced to admit that I’ve been arguing for nothing. I either misread that paragraph or remembered it differently and never went back to check but yea, I’ve clearly been wrong about your stance.
Mea Culpa.
@Razor
I love me a shut down corner. Dion Sanders is a top 5 all time in my book. Anyway my argument is a good pass rush. Is that a best 3 tech and an dominant edge rusher. Or two book ends with some clever blitz scheme. I just feel a revue island is sweet, but if the dude gets hurt or ego over pay and loose in other spots. Remember when we grabbed Carlos Rogers and had Spencer and those hard hitting safeties. That dBack field was not elite but we had Brooks and Smith coming of age and Cowboy abs Franklin. Plus to all pro inside lbs. God it is making me sad to think about.
Damnit. I hate the fact we lost that super bowl the following year or whenever. We should of won that game. That was the window. I digress. Damn damn damn.
Go niners
Top five for d. Sanders and position all time in case it wasn’t clear.
Let, Jerry, Montana and Brady
The 49ers would never have won their last Super Bowl without Sanders. They had no answer for Irvin….
I was working Joe Roby events for my hs booster club. Went to that Super Bowl in Miami it was awesome!!! Went off to college and the Dallas and Green Bay take over was the beginning of the dark days. GB was lucky to have back to back hall of fame QBs and they only have 2 rings to show for it. Ha!
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Grant,
Interesting statistical analyses there. This article seemed “hella” short though, and I was interested to read more about your take on the topic. It’s certainly an important one.
Gabbert is a back up quarterback, and that’s why he’s paid like one. I expect the 49ers to come down off their “buzz” and sober minds will prevail. Good write up Grant!
I disagree. The article contradicted itself in the final paragraphs. Dig a little deeper indeed. I could list the usual apologetic list: no running game, no line, no receivers, terrible OC, no game plan, but that would miss just how far off this article is.
Once again it appears the negativity has run off the necessary hits so this article is meant to garner a reaction. You spent the first 13 paragraphs telling why the team should keep Kaepernick then undercut the thesis in the remaining 5 paragraphs.
Simply put, the team is rebuilding. That is why the 49ers do not need Colin Kaepernick and the decision to keep him would only waste 10 million dollars in cap room.
No one is fooled into believing Gabbert is the future of the franchise. It becomes a public spin campaign. The organization must convince the fan base that parting with Kaepernick is a necessary step in the progression of the 49ers. Gabbert can hold the spot until that franchise quarterback is obtained. The ten million in savings can be used to solidify the line, improve the defense, or bring in offensive weapons.
Don’t be fooled by the ureteric coming from the front office.
I’d like to suggest to you Grant that instead of supplying an endless chain of negativity, you actually try and contribute meaningful insightful stories. They will likely generate just as many hits if not more than the current agenda.
If he’s cut prior to April Fools day, the dead money hit is just under $8 million. That’s if he passes the physical….
Then jokes on us?
First off all, the Niners can’t cut Kap prior to April 1 unless he’s able to pass a physical. Secondly, the team has almost 60 million dollars in cap space already. How much money or space do you think they need to solidify the lines on both sides of the ball? They also have 12 draft picks, so the team already has plenty of ammunition to restock the team…Finally what it boils down to is which QB gives the team the best chance for a speedy recovery? A rookie, Kap or Gabbert. Any unbiased person would conclude that it is Kap. He has a proven record of success when he is protected up front and has a HC with a legitimate system in place. Baalke should address the offensive line via FA along with one or two pieces along the defensive front seven. The draft can then address the spots he missed through FA and depth. This is the most sound way of rebuilding the team in short order and get the team back in a position to compete for the division title and/or the playoffs. Gabbert may be good enough to have the team be 8-8…9-7 until the rookie is ready to take over, but Kap is good enough to have the team 10-6…11-5 and contending for a deep plahoff run..
My view on the playoff run is this: If you are not winning super bowls you’re just hurting your draft position.
60 million in cap room is a good start but every year the team will need to replace players. So, saving 10 million in 1 season can be carried over to the next season.
Oh, I get it…Your saying 31 teams waste their time trying to win, because they aren’t winning super bowls. And therefore they hurt their draft position…. I’m sorry, I will never agree with that. Teams don’t play 16 games to improve draft position. Only fans of teams want that to happen… No wonder typical fans aren’t GM’s.
Matt sounds like Jed- speak; Teams are rewarded for doing badly, so the Niners strategy will be to lose so they get a great draft position.
I long for the Glory Years. Niners always picked near the end of the draft, but still were in the Super Bowl hunt.
Yep.. I agree 100%
Seb< I've called you out on this before, and I'll do it again. If you keep pucing this false narrative, you lose credibility. Just because you can twist words around and/or take them out of context, does't make it true.
Jab never said or insinuated that losing is a viable strategy, because the more you lose, the higher you end up with your draft position. Job never said anything of the sort. And pretending he did, only makes yourself look bad.
You can credibly criticise Jeb for any number of things, but this simply isn't one of them. As a matter of fact, the opposite holds more truth. Jeb has been on record stating that he expects the 49ers to compete for a Super Bowl every season, and that, even though it's a high bar to set, reaching for anything less is unacceptable. Some people have argued that this is not a realistic bar to set, therefore, it undermines his coaches. Because it's unrealistic, it creates an environment where, every year the 49ers haven't won a Super Bowl, it's considered a failure, therefore it unfairly sets expectations too high, while setting his coaches up for failure.
Her is one of Jed's the transcripts –
( http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/29/jed-york-hold-me-responsible-if-49ers-dont-win-super-bowls/ ): “It’s up to us to make sure we compete for and win Super Bowls,” York said. “That’s our only goal. We don’t raise division championship banners, we don’t raise NFC Championship banners. We raise Super Bowl banners. And whenever we don’t deliver that, I hope that you will hold me directly responsible and accountable for it. And we look forward to getting this thing back on track.”
Your are somehow (and I have no idea how your brain works this way) translating this quote :“8-8 and 5-11, neither one of them is acceptable to me. I’d rather take a swing like we did on Jimmy T and if you miss, the nice thing about the NFL is they reward you for missing. We have a high draft pick and that’s the thing that I don’t want to be drafting high, but if we don’t compete for championships, I’d much rather be drafting high and be able to add the top-tier talent in the draft to this roster. So, that’s where we are today. It’s not good enough. Trent understands it’s not good enough and we need to continue to add talent to this roster and make sure that we can compete for championships”, to mean Jeb thinks, because teams are compensated with high draft picks when they lose, Jed's OK with losing and believes losing is a viable strategy.
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article52984760.html#storylink=cpy
I am also including the notion that Tomsula, Forrester, Baalke and York all conspired when moving Boone from RG to LG, instead of sliding him out to RT, even though they believed moving him to RT would have made the team better, in order to lower Boone's value when he hit free agency after the season. In other words, even though Tomsula, Forrester and Baalke realize their job security is tied to how well the team performs, somehow they felt it was more important to influence Boone's value as an upcoming FA (even though there was no guarantee they would even still be with the team after the season, nor was there any guarantee Boone wanted to resign with the team as a FA).
IT"S LOONEY TUNES BRO, Looney Tunes!
For all the intellect you bring to this forum Seb, when you twist and distort quote's and phrases, you lose credibility.
I was being sarcastic and using an extreme example to point to the ludicrousness suggested. What would 1 more year of Kaepernick do to improve this team?
Arguably the best head coach in the last decade couldn’t win a Super Bowl with Kaepernick and one of the best defenses in the league. That team has been decimated and you’d have the fan base believe that same QB can overcome all of his deficiencies in 8 games after being benched to resurrect the organization to 10 or 11 wins?
I think that money can be better spent on more needs. If you can plug the gap until a more viable option is available with a man who costs 10 million less a year, I think it would be irresponsible not to do so. Just my opinion.
I have never seen a guy go from being benched, and unwanted by an organization, while also losing the locker room, to leading the same organization deep into the playoffs. Maybe my memory is bias.
Here is a chart that lists franchise QB’s who were benched.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000340761/article/oakland-raiders-matt-schaub-broken-beyond-repair
The point of giving kap a chance to resurrect his chance here is, that it won’t be for 1 more year. I agree that why usehim for one more year if that year is to just bridge another qb, but if he plays well under this new system, then we have our franchise guy. Me personally, I would wage my money on RG3. I used his stays in a previous post. The man he was the year and a half he was fully healthy, would be special to Chip Kellys system. But even you can’t say, Blaine Gabbert gives this team a better chance to win than Kap. It’s all irrelevant tough if Chip looks at the tape and decides Kap is no good. Mike Shanahan made that assumption, therefore he’s not the niner coach. But I finally think that with our current resources, and multiple draft picks, we are in prime position to give Kap a team around him. It will help her his confidence back. And it should help him reap the fruits, of the discounted contract he signed
RG III could be an interesting dynamic in Kelly’s system. He’d also be cheap. That’s an interesting take.
Finally, an intelligent analysis…
Just cut both of them and cement the prime drafting positions for the next year or two. Had Tomsula done the smart thing this past season and played Hayne at QB, they’d have some pretty sweet choices in this draft, instead of leftovers.
Well that was a dumb statement, Hayne at QB, what are you smoking.
He just was following Jeds wishes to lose every game so they would be rewarded with the first pick.
I just don’t see Kaep sticking around. If the 49ers decide they want to keep him, I wouldn’t be surprised if he asks for a trade or to be released. This is a broken relationship, like RGIII at Washington. And once that happens it would be silly to keep him, as how can the other players follow a guy that doesn’t want to be there?
I was watching a Kelly passing clinic on the Eagles website. H frequently uses the term “NFL open” to explain why his quarterback threw successfully to a seemingly covered receiver.
CK has no idea about “NFL open.”
Kelly also talks about “repetitive accuracy.” CK has no idea about “repetitive accuracy” either.
Everyone’s obsessed with quarterback running, but its really the threat of the quarterback running that makes his offense work.
Chip Kelly Offensive Resource Page
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/2/20/10878930/chip-kelly-offense-resource-page
Good stuff Brodie. I’ll add what Steve Young referred to as “reflexive recall” to the mix. You’re absolutely correct about the “threat of running”. Of course, a QB needs to have “functional mobility” in order to create the threat of running. It’s remarkable, and really a testament to the viability of a Chip Kelly offense that a motley crew of immobile QB’s like Sam Bradford and Nick Foles were able to put up pretty good numbers DESPITE presenting much of a running threat. Just as soon as Chip finds a QB who displays repetitive accuracy, with the ability to to throw his receivers open, with a credible threat of running, LOOK OUT!
By the way I’m not convinced Colin can’t regain some of that accuracy. When he was playing confident, early in his career, accuracy wasn’t really an issue. Plus, he’s always been remarkably accurate throwing on the run. IMO, he also needs to stop doing as much upper body/arm weight training, and putting on so much muscle mass, and straighten out his mechanics in terms of his base, and his footwork. If he does this, and he dedicates himself to learning every little nuance of Chip’s system, he could resurrect his career, and be an improved version of the guy who took the NFL by storm in 2012/13. However, IMO he already has some stiff competition. I think Blaine Gabbert might be a great fit running Chip’s offense. If Colin rededicates himself, it could be an EPIC QB BATTLE in camp this year!
Ian Rapoport is reporting today that Colin is “more than open” to staying on board and competing to regain his starting spot in 2016! Which is fantastic news, IMO. Will he win a camp battle against Blaine? Not necessarily, but it sure will be fascinating to watch, and I think it bodes well for the future. However, were not there just yet. We’ll see how healthy Colin is by March 31st!
http://www.49erswebzone.com/news/91850-rapoport-kaepernick-more-open-returning-san-francisco/
How much of this is Agent speak though? If I were trying to sell Kaepernick to the masses, I would be playing politics. Make the 49ers FO the bad guy would be agenda one.
They tried to leak a story to say he wanted to play elsewhere. Brandon Marshal ruined that. Now, he has to move on to plan B.
Why? Because if a man whose talent was made for the offense that is now coming to SF doesn’t want to play there, there are a plethora of red flags for any new negotiations with another club.
The problem here is that the team doesn’t want Kaepernick. The FO, the coaches they can say what they’d like. The team abandoned him.
Ha! No one saw Smith sticking around either until Harbaugh glued him back together….
Have you seen any big push being made by Kelly to keep Kaep? I just don’t see him wanting to come back. Do you?
Gotta wait until the combine for clarification on those questions Scooter….
What are his options?
Plenty of teams that need a QB. At this point I think he’d rather a fresh start on less money at a club he felt had his back than at the 49ers. Just my hunch, of course.
Where else could he start next season?
Broncos, Jets, Redskins, Browns, Texans, Eagles, Rams. Maybe even the Bills.
Don’t see it.
You said could not would. I think it is conceivable at least one of those teams may see him as a guy that could compete to be their starter. Which is exactly what he’d be doing at the 49ers.
Conceivable but not likely. Redskins will tag Cousins. Jets will sign Fitzpatrick. Texans have Hoyer and will draft a QB. Bills will stick with Taylor. Eagles will sign Bradford. Broncos will sign Osweiler. Browns and Rams will draft a QB in Round 1.
That is what is likely to happen if Kaep isn’t available. Things could easily change if he was available. All it would take is one HC to think they can take Kaep’s athletic gifts and build an offense around him that would replicate his early career success.
Of all the QBs you outlined at those teams, Kaep has had more success in his career than them. Considerably more than some.
So the Texans should prefer Hoyer over Kap?
The 2016 QB Franchise Tag number is $19.6M. Kaepernick’s contract in 2016 is for ~$15M, rises to ~$19M from 2017-19, and increases to $21M in 2020, with very team-friendly termination terms along the way. He is still unproven, but at least he has shown the ability to win in the playoffs, and his tools are superior to every other QB in the league, bar none.
If the 49ers want him, he can’t do anything about it. None of the guys Grant mentions can hold his jock, and yet all will be demanding greater compensation, with or without being tagged.
I agree Scooter. I do not think the marriage is salvageable. It now becomes a matter of what sort of compensation the team will be responsible for after he is cut and picked up by another team.
Yes. Get eyeglasses.
Razor
You have a penchant for exaggeration to say the least
Grant, I have two questions…
1) We know Gabbert’s failed completion percentage. Does Football Outsiders track failed quarterback run percentage?
I’ve always though CK puffed his passing stats by running short of the sticks instead of throwing a low percentage pass or throwing the ball away.
Both quarterbacks are pocket chicken. They respond differently. On 3rd and 8 CK scrambles for 5 yards. Gabbert throws for 5 yards.
2) My question… how much was it Chryst’s play calling, and how much was Gabbert’s check down tendencies?
Question 2) was asked often during he season. I don’t know that we’ll ever get an accurate answer.
I think Kaep’s average pass on third down being 0.7 yards past the marker and Gabbert’s being well before the marker answer that to some degree.
I got the 0.7 yards past the marker part.
I’m interested in CK’s failed 3rd down run/scramble conversions. To me that’s the same as throwing short of the sticks.
Six failed completion third downs + half dozen failed run third downs = 1 pocket chicken.
If you look purely at those statistics, perhaps. But integrated into that I think would be how long Kap or Gabbert held on to the ball. So Kap tended to hold on to the ball longer which allowed the receivers more time to get to the markers. Gabbert, OTOH, seemed to get rid of the ball more quickly and perhaps too quickly which contributed to his “before the marker” statistic. Do you know where to look for a stat on the average time each QB held on to the ball during a pass play. I know there are other factors that contribute to that stat (such as the severity of the pass rush), but since there would be a fairly large number of attempts for each, it should be meaningful.
I suppose the best measure would be “total failed 3rd down conversions” with apples to apples breakdowns, like yards to go.
I think question number 2 is answered by the way Gabbert threw the ball too quickly so he would not get sacked. However, I think he did not show patience and let them get to the first down marker, so it was more on Gabbert than the play calling.
There is no need to fear, UnderGoff is here!
I don’t think the Niners will admit it but if Goff slips to them he will be the pick.
Neither Kaepernick or Gabbert should be on a NFL roster.
I think the 49ers would grab Goff in a heartbeat. I think Goff will be gone by pick 7 though.
The Browns and Cowboys need a QB for the future, and are openly shopping the #1 pick. They recently said multiple teams have inquired about trading up.
This could be a ploy, but I see a trade happening with the first pick.
– The Browns sacrificing a day three pick to secure their targeted quarterback against leap froggers. The Titans would still get Tunsil or Bosa. It would be below “trade chart value”, but why not take a freebie extra pick and still get Tunsil or Bosa?
– Dallas is within striking distance of a modest trade-up. If the Browns took a QB, then Tunsil or Bosa or another really good player would be at 4 for the Titans. The Titans still get their man + even more/better picks.
– The 49ers have been huddled away in San Diego “laying in the weeds, sharpening their knives”, and could covet Goff more than they let on.
– The quarterback desperate Rams have two second round picks. They could make a move.
I think the trade up will cost well below traditional chart values. Trade ups involving top ten picks fluctuate wildly. In 2013 Miami only had to give up the 12+42 picks to move all the way up to pick 3.
A part of me hopes Goff is sitting there, just to prove you wrong. I know teenage girls that are built more solidly than him….
Wrong about what? I’m predicting the Titans will trade down. If I’m wrong, that’s part of the fun.
I listed the 49ers trading up as one of the four (less likely) possibilities. The Browns, Cowboys and Rams are more likely to trade up for Goff if one does happen.
But in the unlikely event Goff does fall to 7 I think the 49ers grab him.
“I think the 49ers would grab Goff in a heartbeat” Wrong, wrong, wrong. So wrong…; > O))
Razor,
I continue to be amazed at how little you respect Goff and continue to use hyperbole and rhetoric when describing him.
His weight is not an issue. If it was he wouldn’t have gone 3 years without missing a start. His height to weight ratio is pretty much exactly what Matt Ryan’s is right now, never mind when he first came out of College. Goff is heavier than Brees and Dalton are right now. He could play in the NFL at 215, but he’ll likely add 5-10 lbs just by being in an nfl training program for a few months.
You’ve gone all in on this anti Goff viewpoint. You could wind up looking really silly if this kid comes in and plays well.
The hype on Goff speaks to the lack of first round quarterback prospects. Spending a premium pick on a quarterback with a lacking arm, average athletic ability, slightly above average football IQ, and inconsistent sangfroid seems to me, to be a complete waste of resources. I don’t mind eating crow, so long as I have salt and pepper….
Again I have to disagree with your portrayal here. His arm isn’t lacking at all. He can make every throw and more importantly, make it accurately. His football IQ is very high and he was given more command of his offense than most College QB’s get. I understand if you think it’s more important to build other parts of the team first, and there is merit to that line of thinking, but you are so severely underestimating Goff it really boggles the mind.
Mind boggling is one of the initial symptoms of Whooping Goff…; > )
Mind boggling is one of the initial symptoms of Whooping Goff…; > )
Goff did throw 6 TDs against a mediocre Bowl team, but he also threw 5 picks in one game. He is not a slam dunk playoff QB.
Not to mention Seb, their Bear Raid Offense is easier than the Quack Attack Offense….
Whoop there it is!
Goff did have some good WRs, but that Oregon offense was pretty impressive, too.
Funny how Goff will go top 10 and Adams will go maybe 5th round, even with a good E-W game.
I could see Goff sliding out of the top ten, sitting in the green room with a look of bewilderment….
I could see Goff sliding out of the top ten, sitting in the green room with a look of bewilderment….
It’s possible, it did happen to Rodgers after all, but I doubt it.
I wouldn’t want to be the team that faced him afterwards if he does indeed slide.
Why not?
Because you could be facing an Aaron Rodgers situation: a top prospect dropping for some reason on draft day thus developing a chip on his shoulder.
Players like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, they don’t need chips on their shoulders….
No, but that’s what makes QBs like them even more dangerous.
I’m sorry, but nothing about Goff scares me. Just like nothing about Gabbert scares me. Just like nothing about Alex Smith scares me. All chips notwithstanding….
You just compared two top 10 picks to a guy you just said could slide. Bad comparisons.
Two top ten picks that were overdrafted. Gabbert should have been taken in the 3rd and Smith in the 2nd. I think they compare rather nicely, but what do I know?
They’re bad comparisons because they were taken in the top 10 regardless of whether they were over drafted and you’re comparing them to a guy who you think slides. The comparisons are only sound if Goff is taken in the top 10 and not if he slides.
Ok, but I’m still not scared….
Goff and Adams are the only two QBs I can see making some noise in the NFL. None of the other QB prospects scare me.
I like the idea of taking Adams and let him develop in Kelly’s system, but so far, I’ve been able to avoid coming down with Whooping Goff….
True, but you have been overCOOKed. ;-)
I liked Cook and still do, just not in the first round. I think he could be another game manager….
In still on the Cook train even though he played terrible against Bama. Then again no one was beating Bama.
He needs a year to sit and learn like all the QB’s coming out but if the Niners get him in the 2nd, it will be a huge steal of the draft!
Cook at the top of round 2 I wouldn’t be overly excited about. Trading into the bottom of round 2 for Cook would be exciting.
I’d be surprised if he lasted after the mid part of round 2
Goff shouldn’t start next season.
I agree. He has the most experience but is only 21 years old. I’d let him cook for at least a season. Let his body fill out and his football brain develop.
Very rarely should a rookie start Grant ,the pressure and frantic pursuit of the “franchise QB” is a symptom of a serious disfunction in the NFL.
Hightop, you don’t draft a quarterback in the top ten if he’s not going to start….
Only because the team’s drafting a QB that early typically don’t have any better option. If you need a franchise QB and one is available in the top 10 that needs some development time, and you also have a vet that can hold the fort until the young QB is ready, you still draft him.
If that’s the case, then I take one at the top of the second and develop him. If there is a franchise quarterback, he should be able to beat out the place holding veteran….
And how do you know Goff wouldn’t come in and win the job? The best option would be to have him sit and learn, but quite frankly he could come in and be the best QB on the roster from day one.
I could get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull’s ass, but I’d rather take the butcher’s word for it. If a GM thinks Goff is a franchise quarterback, I’ll defer to him. I’m just a hack who hasn’t come down with the Whooping Goff that’s been going around….
Razor,
If you feel others are too high on Goff, it’s only because you are so Anti Goff. Your view of Goff is not shared by any draft sites or analysts I’ve read or listened too, and doesn’t fit with the film I’ve watched which is pretty much every game he’s played in his College career. Even the article from Rotoworld you linked to didn’t have many negative things to say.
I like Goff as a prospect. I think his natural ability to throw accurately from the pocket and under duress is something special. I think the Niners should take him if he’s there.
On the other hand, I’m also ok with drafting another position if Goff is gone and taking a QB later. I like a lot of players in this draft and there are many who could help the Niners faster than taking a QB, but the goal is to be sitting with the best possible talent at some point during their rookie contract; not taking the one who can contribute the fastest.
We’ll see come draft day and subsequently throughout his career. I don’t care if you’ve known him since he was in kindergarten. No one knows for sure what he is at this point….
Rocket do you think Goff could start day one? With the 49ers?
Razor,
I’m not saying I’m an expert or know the guy personally. I have watched most of his games because I’m a College football – especially Pac 12- fan and he’s gotten progressively better each year he’s played. It’s the level of criticism you are directing at him that is confusing me as I haven’t read anything as remotely negative as you have been about him. You are right we won’t know until he actually plays in the league, but it’s strange that you are so down on a kid who throws the ball as well as he does.
Prime,
I think he could start from day one yes, but I would rather see him sit for at least half a season or more so that he can get comfortable in the system and cut down the chances for setbacks.
It’s not that strange at all Rocket. Afterall, we’ve seen the real experts underestimate talent and overestimate it quite often. You’re sure he has the elite traits of a top ten quarterback. All I see is a second round developmental guy who is going to need a year to be an adequate starter….
I agree Rocket. Whoever the Niners draft at the QB position should sit a full year or at least 12 games. Doesn’t matter if it’s round one or 5, let him sit and learn.
That’s why to me Gabbert is a perfect bridge QB. Cheap, young, mature and can be a good mentor. What’s CK gonna teach him, fashion and how to pluck a teammates girlfriend?
That bridge looked awful shaky to me….
I don’t understand what most of you think. Goff will not be the pick at 7 if there or not. This is not how Balke operates. He will not pick a QB at 7 or trade up from 7. The pick will come down to Jack, Buckner or spence.. Quite possibly Smith if knee continues to check out well. Balke will give Kelly his choice in the 2nd rnd. Watch out for Hackenburg who he has none since a kid. If not him Vernon Adams in rnd 4…
*known*
I’d be happy with Buckner, Jack, Spence, or Lawson….
No doubt but it won’t be Lawson either. A wild card could be ogbah in a trade down scenario.
If Scooter pounds the table for Ogbah, I would acquiesce….
Hmmm, I’m not totally sold on Ogbah, but I do think he’s the type of player Baalke will really like.
Or Jaylon Smith :-)
To me the biggest part of the combine will be the medical exams, follow ed by the weigh ins and measurements.
I want to see about Jack and Jaylon’s knees… And which colleges puffed up their players dimensions.
I think UCLA puffed up Jack’s dimensions.
6’1”, 230? Small, but does he have all the traits necessary to overcome it? I think so….
Yep, me too, though he may have bulked himself up for the combine. He looked like he played in the 220lbs to 230lbs range.
Jaylon Smith looks like he’ll be about what ND said he was.
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/heres-how-myles-jack-former-bellevue-and-ucla-star-got-himself-ready-for-the-nfl-draft/
Article says he is 6’1″ and 245 lbs. But here’s what I found interesting:
““He’s way above track in his rehab,” said Brett Fischer, who’s overseeing Jack’s training. “When I gave his stats to the doctor, he couldn’t believe it. The leg that Myles had surgery on is bigger than the one that didn’t, which is unheard of.”
Fischer is the founder of the Fischer Institute and the physical therapist for the Arizona Cardinals. He was handpicked by Jack to supervise his rehab when he made the decision to withdraw from UCLA in October and declare early for the NFL draft.”
Baalke – “I’d like to introduce our “awfully good” new slot corner. Myles Jack.”
“We had an awfully good interview with him at the combine and came away awfully impressed with his 40 time. We had his name sealed in this awfully good envelope, and were awfully pleased when he fell to us at pick 7…”
It will be interesting to see what Jack weighs, but his listed measurements at UCLA really are similar to Willis’ at Mississippi.
Four really good players that could help the team right away. Any thoughts on Stanley?
Needs to work on technique, he gets a little too vertical which allows the opponent to take better angles, pushing the pocket. He gets that fixed, and I think he’ll be top shelf. Might struggle early like Bam, but I think he ends up the better player. Love his feet….
Like a lot of young OL these days, do you worry about his strength to anchor?
Sure do
Me too.
I think Jack, Buckner or Spence will all be good choices, but if Ronnie Stanley is available, the Niners should draft him even with Davis possibly coming back.
Please, no more red shirt ACL picks. Niners need immediate help.
I have to disagree. If the Kaepernick situation has come to a resolution, and the team either seeks to trade him, or negotiates an injury settlement with Kap, I think GOFF is absolutely a possibility at #7. That is, if Chip see’s him as the best option to run his offense moving forward. They have an ideal “bridge” QB on the roster, in Blaine Gabbert, so they wouldn’t have to play JARRED as a rookie.
However, if their relationship with COLIN take a turn for the better this week in, and both Chip Kelly and COLIN KAEPERNICK are on the same page with Colin competing to reclaim his starting position this season, then no, I think the team goes in a different direction, and addresses the pass rush and/or inside linebacker, in round one.
I do not think Grant makes a very complex argument for Colin Kaepernick being the 49ers starting QB in 2016. While there is certainly some validity to the “failed completions” concept, I think it’s far more complicated than Grant’s article would suggest. And, while I do believe GABBERT needs to do a better job “pushing the football downfield” I do think there is a lot more to it than simply taking the easy check down rather than throwing to the sticks. For instance, some of it comes down to the OL not giving QB enough protection to allow routes to develop. Some of it comes down to schemes, progressions, etc.
I am actually shocked at how little substance there is to Grants article. No mention at all about Colin’s accuracy, and elongated release. No mention at all about “reflexive recall”, and how quickly a Chip Kelly QB needs to be able to process information? No mention about “functional mobility” whatsoever?
Come on Grant, choosing between Gabbert and Kaepernick is far, far more complicated than “failed completions!”
The bigger questions are; What will we see next year, the 2012 Kaep or the 2015 Kaep? Will Chip be able to accentuate his strengths and hide his weaknesses? Is Kaep going to be forced to be only a pocket passer? Will he have a decent O line? Will Hyde stay healthy? Can Baalke acquire good pass rushers? Is Chip totally committed to Kaep, or are his people skills needing to be brushed up? Gabbert is OK, but can he get the ball past the first down marker?
I really hope Kaep can be the Niner starting QB, because I adhere to the unwritten rule where a player does not lose his job due to injury. Kaep also gives the Niners the best chance to win. I bet the Broncos would really like a QB like Kaep, especially since their other QB could not run or throw the ball. Kaep, with that Denver defense, would be Freddy Kreuger scary.
If Kaepernick, paired with Kelly can be Jason Voorhees scary, I’d be happy. Besides, he can’t be killed….
Even with Kaep regaining his starting job, I hope Chip gives Gabbert a few snaps, and maybe even a series to keep him involved and contributing.
I also think the Niners should draft a QB, but not in the first round. Hogan and Adams are good choices, and I think Jacoby Brissett has the skillsets to be able to run the Chip Kelly System, too.
I really hope the Broncos take Kap,anybody please take this Guy off of the 9ers hands,really don`t want to see him on the field this year for the 9ers.
Next thing you’ll be saying, is you plan on moving out of the country if Kaepernick is the starting quarterback….
If the Broncos get Kaep, expect the Broncos to get a couple more rings.They won a SB with a QB who could not run or pass.
Because Kaep helped the 49ers get so many rings in his time here….right…
Well, it took PM 18 years to get 2 rings, so Kaep has plenty of time.
Yeah, and by the time he was Colins age he had 1 Super Bowl championship, 2 NFL MVP awards, 7 Pro Bowl appearances, 3 All Pro 1st Team & 2 All Pro 2nd Team selections, had twice led the NFL in passing yards and thrice led the NFL in Passing Touchdowns…
Now what has Colin done that touches any of that?
Well, Kaep has a 4-2 road playoff record, He has the record for the most running yards by a QB in playoff history, and the second most, too.
Kaep made it to the SB after 10 games, and played in 2 NFCCGs in his first 2 years.
Of course, Manning is a shoe in for the HOF. Maybe just by comparing Kaep to Manning, your are elevating Kaep’s status. Also, both have been to a SB, and both have lost a SB.
Is this supposed to be a ringing endorsement for Kap, seb? If the Bronco’s won a Super Bowl without a QB who run or pass, why do they need Kap? I’m confused.
Seb, I’m not certain you understand the concept of a valuable starting QB.
A head coach isn’t looking for a QB who can win on the back of the league’s best defense. A head coach is looking for a QB who makes all of the players around him better, and therefore can win a championship without the best defense in the NFL.
Over the past 4 years I received a lot of strife over this question and only guy was able to answer with reluctancy.
I’ll ask Seb the #7 blow hard. Who has Kaepernick made a better player? Who’s game has he been able to elevate?
The true measure of a leader is making players around him better. I’d like to know who #7 has made a legit NFL’er since being in the league?
Nobody. In fact he might have made some players worse. Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Torrey Smith and Anquan Boldin. Only for the simple reason he never got those guys the ball or was never able to throw them open.
I am laughing at how some people think Chip Kelly is going to come in and all of the sudden make Colin Kaepernick a once again good QB. Kelly’s system relies greatly on accuracy and decision making. Two things he has never done well, even with Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman.
I know Sebenayah is a big fan but being a fan of one player is masking his ability to see the true performance and entire body of work as a NFL QB for the 49ers.
Prime, if I recall correctly, you were the one who claimed that Kaep took the league by storm. With Chip as the HC, he may do it again.
When he was winning in 2012, his threat to run made the defense key on him, and allowed Gore to shine. Additionally, Crabtree did a lot better when Kaep was throwing to him instead of AS, and came within inches of winning a SB with him, and also returning to the SB with Crab.
Maybe you did not know this, but Kaep does not play defense, so he cannot claim to have elevated Cowboy’s play.
Blow hard? No, that is what you do when you bend over all the time.
FDM, I have admitted that Kaep regressed, but you and many other posters will not acknowledge that last year’s O line was so putrid, Kaep had to have 3 surgeries because of their turnstile play.
Seb he may again take the league by storm. That’s an 11 million dollar gamble for a potential back up. As a business owner would you take that chance or trade that asset in return to help the rebuild?
In 2012 was it the defense that carried the Niners or was it Crabtree and #7?
I’ll give you more time to think about who #7 made a better player. Crabtree was already established and his numbers only improved slightly. Now look at him in OAK, big difference and he’s the #2. What does that tell you? I’ll await your answer.
Crabtree went from the number 1 receiver who had double coverage while on the Niners, to being the number 2 receiver and getting lots of single coverage. Cooper garnered the double coverage, so Crabtrees job was a lot easier. Also, the Raider O line actually gave Carr time to throw. Last year, they gave up 38 sacks all year. The Niners, after the first game, gave up 28 sacks in 7 games while Kaep was playing.
Seb everyone was putrid last year. The point is Colin Kapernick has been regressing every year since 2011. You cannot deny that or hope that coach is going to come in and all the sudden make him accurate and a better decision maker. You cannot teach those elements. Geep Chrsyt dummied down the offense so much and even then he could not perform in it.
When Harbaugh was here he put Kaepernick in the best situations possible. Then with games on the line he choked.
Now I’m not here to tell you how to be a fan. I’m just saying be objective in your analysis. Football is a team game and a lot of things need to be good for everyone to succeed, but when you look at his performance and what is best for the team moving forward, is he the best option versus keeping a cheaper Gabbert and drafting a successor?
The 49ers are not close to being a playoff team. Continue the rebuild, acquire more assets and rid the big money deals.
FDM, I would like to point out another QB who was panned as a bust, but came back to win a couple SBs.
Jim Plunkett.
Maybe history will repeat itself.
Seb I highly doubt teams doubled Crabtree while in SF. He’s slow.
Do you remember Crabtrees comments about CK this past off season? A guy who lacked studying his play book? And a guy who would not throw him open unless there wasn’t a defender within 5 yards?
That’s what Im referencing. An oline does not cure accuracy or intelligence or decision making. Or the ability to elevate the players around you. You keep blaming all the other moving parts except the one that’s in between his ears. He’s not a smart QB. Kelly, an all pro oline or even Bill Walsh can’t fix that!
Sebnyah you keep making arguments based on hope. As fans we all hope but hoping does not make it reality. Do Niner fans want a Jim Plunkett story, of course. But the reality is this a dollar and cents decision. This is also based on indentifying Kaepernick future development.
From a contract decision it makes no sense to take on that risk if you believe he wont flat out win the job in camp. By no one making any gesture towards that, I tend to believe the 49ers are weighing other options at the QB position.
Prime, maybe you do not follow the Niners as closely as I do, but PFF in 2014 has Crabtree as the the number 1 receiver.
Kaep threw the ball to Crab in the 2013 NFCCG because he was single covered by Sherman.
FDM, I want the Niners to win. Giving up on Kaep just dooms them to rebuilding with a rookie QB since Gabbert is a 5-27 QB. No untested rookie QB is going to win a SB, especially with a 29th ranked defense.
Kaep is a SB QB. He gives the Niners the best chance to succeed. Granted, Baalke has to sign some elite FAs and hit a home run in the draft, but Chip is a definite upgrade at the coaching position, and with a healthy Hyde, the offense cannot do anything but improve.
If a team has an elite defense like the Ravens or this year’s Broncos, a great QB is not needed
Obviously, with a 29th ranked defense, the Niners are never going to win a SB unless the defense improves.
So you’re telling me that the Broncos would have won the Super Bowl with Bryan Hoyer or Nick Foles….or the Ravens would have won the Super Bowl had they kept Tony Banks in at QB?
Ravens did it with Dilfer, and he is a remedial QB.
PM almost gave it away with his interception, and the Panthers were only 6 points away from gaining the lead for much of the second half.
The Ravens told Dilfer to just hand off the ball and never throw. Hoyer had the third ranked Texan defense, but choked away the game because he threw the ball like the DBs were the intended receivers.
because I adhere to the unwritten rule where a player does not lose his job due to injury
Really? Then you shouldn’t be too happy about Kaep being the QB to being with!
That was on JH, and it backfired on him, so maybe they should adhere to that rule now.
Colin was benched because of performance, not injury. If his injuries were having such a negative impact on his game, Colin would have come forward and disclosed the injuries well before he fumbled away his job! However, I would like to see what Colin brings to the table in Chip Kelly’s system.
When Kaep was throwing the ball into the turf, I guess no coach, doctor or trainer asked Kaep how he felt. After the GB game, Kaep had a splint on his thumb. I guess he did that himself because he did not show up on the injury report.
Sitting on my couch, I could tell something was wrong.
And the pick 6’s against AZ, was that become of the thumb, shoulder and knee?
Or what about the uncovered WR he never saw open? Was that on the oline, Tomsula or the injuries?
Or better yet, running out of bounds killing the clock for the other team? Injuries, coaching or oline?
Behind that O line, Kaep had a pass rusher in his face before he could take 3 steps. On missing Torrey, the DB was reading his eyes and saw that Kaep did not look in Torreys’ direction so he cheated up to the LOS because he figured it was going to be another run into the teeth of the defense. Which it was.
When you are trying not to get injured further, running out of bounds is understandable. The coaches should have told him to just slide feet first, but forgot to tell him that.
Seb you are full of it! Either you are 15 yearsold or the dumbest football fan I’ve seen on here. I’m guessing you are just trolling now so I’ll wait to see what the 49ers do with your hero before listening to anymore of your blow hard arguments. Grow up!
Prime, when I mentioned that I had season tickets in 1979, and witnessed the Glory Years, you should do some calculations and realize that I am over 60. But I guess math is not your strong suit…..
Well then that makes you an old crusty fart who still has no clue!
Either way you are an idiot when it comes to football!
Throwing out insults is just par for the course with you. Too bad you cannot civilly and calmly discuss football without becoming infantile and absurd.
Remember, Kaep took the league by storm.
Have you been able to answer my question? No you just use lame a$$ excuses at every turn for #7.
You are not 60. You are 15 years old trying to talk like an adult. I’m wasting my time while wasting everyone else’s time clogging up the board. Too bad Grant does not see you as killing this blog. Sad!
Prime, I have tried very hard to answer your questions. Maybe I missed one, but when you throw out 20 questions it is hard to answer every single one of them.
Getting back to Kaep taking the league by storm, at least you admit that Kaep displayed elite skills. Sometimes, a QB will struggle when his O line is bad. For example- Indy. Luck was supposed to get into the SB because 2 years ago, he seemed ready to go all the way. Indy lost to the eventual champion patriots. Then last year, his O line sucked, he got injured, and they missed the playoffs. It happens. Maybe you need to stop hating so badly and take an objective view of the Niner situation and of football in general. Chip Kelly himself stated that Kaep is an extremely talented player. I think the previous coaches were brain dead because they did not know how to properly utilize his skillsets. With Chip, I see a coach who will be smart enough to see his potential, and Chip will devise plays that will make Kaep give DCs nightmares.
I also believe Chip is smart enough to be able to use Hayne properly. Maybe it would be best if they just allow Hayne to be a punt returner, because then he does not have to worry about routes or blocking assignments. However, I hope Chip will devise plays like a swing pass that will put the ball in Haynes’ hands while in space so he can make the first tackler miss.
Grant, interesting article but I think the starting QB will be the one Kelly thinks has the best mastery of his system and the accuracy/release to implement it, and I just don’t see Kaepernick winning that battle. Also I see them picking a QB in the 3rd or 4th round. They need the earlier picks for OL and pass rush. The team has some rebuilding to do, so it makes sense to draft a QB they can groom. For that, I’m betting on Prescott.
George
Good post…I think that Grant is throwing this out as a teaser….Every time they make an argument FOR Kaep, they bury at least a half dozen reasons Against him. I reckon we’ll all find out on April fools day….how appropriate….
Too many unknowns to have a firm opinion at this point. Will Kap tell Kelly that he’s determined to move to another team, because he hates York and Baalke? Will Kelly win Kap over? And once it’s decided if Kap will even be here, are we sure that he’s a better quarterback than Gabbert? Gabbert was a high draft pick who struggled early, then looked pretty good as the 49ers quarterback – so maybe he’s improving to the point he could be a better than average NFL QB. Is Kap going to be on the upswing or downswing? Last season he looked much worse than a couple of years ago, so maybe he’s on the downside of his peak. Or maybe with a better offensive line he can regain his mojo. Then there’s the question of – Kap or no Kap – will Kelly/Baalke draft a QB in the first round? Just too many questions right now.
Me, I agree that Kap should be given a shot – but not because of Grant’s silly stats analysis. I just think he has a chance to be good again – but it’s also foolish to write off Gabbert. It’ll all play itself out.
If there was a do over, Gabbert would be a 3rd round pick and Kaepernick would move up into the first round….
Wilson, you hit it on the head. I think it is more of a conflict between Jed and Baalke with Kaep, than Chip. Hope all can rise to the occasion, show maturity and move on towards a common goal.
Ck had his chance in the super bowl and the championship game against Seattle. Albeit Ck was the only one keeping us in that game.
He lost the locker room this past year and more importantly went backwards with football IQ.
We need to cut our losses and use Blaine while we rebuild the team… period.
It is far fetched to think Chip can turn ck around. Seriously people…really. I was a ck supporter until his meltdown.
Alex Smith stock was lower than Kaepernick, until Harbaugh started brokering….
Yeah, but given all Alex dealt with he seems more mentally tough than CK7.
Kaepernick played for the worst coach in 49ers history. How mentally tough is that?
Alex played under a shroud of bad coaches for years, Kap only had the one year.
I agree with the notion that Kap doesn’t want to play for the Niners. Maiocco details pretty well in this article how both the team and Kap can move on.
“Right now, it’s pretty clear from multiple sources Kaepernick would like to resume his career elsewhere.”
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-no-1-priority-figure-out-kaepernick-conundrum
But I think CK is the wild card when it comes to CK7’s future.
Alex is playing under a great coach, and still flames out in the playoffs. Excellent trade by the 49ers….
That same coach is under fire for poor management of the time clock.
Sounds familiar….
x2
shawnrhod
Well said…Seb and now Razor are declaring for Kaepernick….how many more wasted years ? He belongs in the CFL…
Problem is, he’s still under contract and until he’s not, I’ll support him. That’s the difference between you and I. I’ll let Seb address you momentarily, right now he’s in a meeting with a NRA official….
Good point razor.
However, Gabbert is also under contract… yet you don’t appear to be supporting him?
Scooter, how many times have I said, “may the best man win”? The hate for Kaepernick has become intolerable….
That’s true. Good point again. I agree the hate for Kaep is ridiculous.
I hope the 49ers can work it out with Kaep and he and Gabbert can fight for the starting job. There isn’t any better options in FA, and I’m not convinced the 49ers QB of now or the future will be available in this draft. Its a pretty weak QB draft. I’m just not sure either the 49ers brass or Kaep are really interested in making that happen though.
I think your summation is spot on Scooter….
Solid.
All I will say is, sometimes, one will discover how precious a jewel is, only the moment it leaves the hand while being thrown away.
HellNo Kap needs to be traded or letgo,I don`t want to go through another year of watching Kap failure to be a BASIC QB let alone a Decent QB……He is not Willing to do what it takes,why waste the little talent you do have by running this looser out on the field why.
Go, go Gabbert dink n dunk!
Another Peyton Manning…of late.
Grant you are nit-picking,I guess you`re ok with Gabbert droping back and instead of COMPLETING a pass you want Him to be like Kap and Take sack.or aleast Gabbert COMPLETES a pass to a Receiver and not throw the ball OUT of bounds when receivers are running OPEN,You really scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to drum up support for Kap,You say the 9ers have no chance to make the playoffs without Kap? did you really make yourself say that? Hell the 9ers have`nt made the playoff with Kap since……..my point exactly. give itup Grant your viewpoint is Flawed and yes Gabbert will give the 9ers a better chance then Kap because Kap REFUSES to do the things REAL QBs do;STUDY and Pay attention to the little things called DETAILS of QBacking 101 and Kap is slow processing info and reading the field and I don`t know if you can teach someone like Him when He is not Willing to learn.
People said the same things about Alex Smith. Roll right, throw it to the towel boy. Kaepernick is under contract and like Alex Smith, cooler heads should prevail. He’ll realize Chip Kelly is his best opportunity for redemption….
Real quarterbacks don’t check down on almost every third down. That’s shameless stat-padding.
Do you think it likely that some of that was lack of confidence by Gabbert in the OL? After all, he saw how Kap suffered under the poor OL play.
I definitely think he lost confidence in the OL, as did Kaep. And it effected both players. Kaep is a much better player behind an OL he trusts, and I’m sure Gabbert is too. But unfortunately part of being a QB is sometimes you have to play behind less than stellar OLs and still get the job done without flinching. Both guys failed that test last season, in my opinion.
What’s the range between less than stellar and putrid? ;-}
Scooter
Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck looked pretty putrid behind putrid OLs. It affects everyone except Tom Brady.
Devvy the rotating RG during Kaep’s time taking game snaps didn’t make it on Brady’s team. He was on and not on the Patriots before he went to the Niners
Aaron Rodgers was still able to win games. Andrew Luck was having a bad season even before his injuries, but he’s a tough dude that is willing to take a hit. Both guys are able to hang in the pocket. Kaep and Gabbert were skittish even when the pocket held up this past season.
After the Viking game, Kaep was sacked 28 times- 4 times per game.Any QB would get skittish taking such a brutal beating.
Is Aaron Rodgers skittish? Russell Wilson? There were other QBs in the NFL having to play behind bad OLs that were able to overcome it and win football games for their team.
While I am in complete agreement with any argument that Kaep would look a lot better with better OL play, there is no getting around the fact he played very poorly with a bad OL.
True. Lets hope a better O line coach and better players can solidify the O line.
Pears made his job a lot harder. Devey succeeded to get Kaep injured. Finally, when Brown was elevated, Gabbert had a little more time to throw.
The check downs are shameless something. Some say stat padding. I think he might be pocket chicken. Either way it doesn’t win football games.
And some say Chryst. We will know for sure at some point.
You may think you will, but you won’t.
It’s interesting how we’ve gone from blaming the OC for not calling the right distance plays on third down to saying “Not Gabbert. On third down, he drops back, panics and dumps the ball to a running back as soon as humanly possible.”
That’s not what you were saying last season.
Somewhere CFC is rolling his eyes. He was saying how subpar Gabbert’s play was the whole time during his starts.
In Chip’s system with an open competition between Gabbert and Kaep, Gabbert will beat out Kaep to start. But I think Kaep will be traded unless they fail miserably to shore up both sides of the line in Free Agency.. Chip/Baalke should tip their hand by mid to late March..
I’d take that bet because Kaepernick has already beat Gabbert twice in training camp. I think we’ll get a better idea of who has the winning hand during the combine….
True, though Gabbert has never been given an equal shot at winning the job either. Both years he has gone into camp as the clear cut backup, and Kaep the clear cut starter. If they keep Kaep, this would be the first time either player will go into TC as part of a real competition.
Looking forward to it….
Why do you say “a better idea …. during the combine”? Is that because negotiations get started and trade rumors start to have some meat behind them or not?
Correct
I believe the Alex Smith trade was consummated at the combine….
That’s a funny definition of “consummated.”
Kaepernick is going to be the starter. Has he ever said he doesn’t want to be one the 49ers? Or have writers portrayed it that way? Chip Kelly has openly said that he wanted to trade for Kaepernick. All this hoopla about him not being the starter is becoming a joke to me.
Before the season ended, Kaepernick and Baalke sat down and talked about everything. No one seems to talk about this and to me it is one of the most important reasons as to why I believe he will be the starter.
“A source with knowledge of the situation told La Canfora that this meeting was better than the ones before and after Kaepernick was benched, and that the relative marginalization of team president Paraag Marathe is seen as a positive. However, there still remains significant skepticism from Kaepernick’s camp that the team wants him back”
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25402847/report-49ers-kaepernick-meet-qb-may-return-in-2016
After that meeting in the first week of December Chip Kelly was fired by the Eagles and hired as the 49er head coach. The part I showed above shows that Kaepernick was skeptical about being on the roster. Some of his uncertainty stemmed from them not signing players to help play around him and also hiring a sufficient coach to coach. So what did they do? They went out and got the coach who wanted to work with Kaepernick (also tried on another coach who wanted Kaepernick). I think the two leading candidates for the 49ers job tells you all about how the organization feels about Kapernick. Kaepernick and his agent know the team has loads of money to spend in free agency. So I am looking for them to further show they are serious about keeping Kaepernick and helping him succeed by spending big on some players to help support him.
To me Gabbert is the trade bait, he has more appeal to teams like Houston, Denver, and other teams looking for a franchise QB than Kaepernick does. I’m guessing Gabbert is the one that gets traded and we get Prescott or Adams or both as backups.
James, that’s an interesting point you bring up. The 49ers moves in free agency this year could go a long way to Kaep deciding whether or not he wants to stay. If they solidify the OL and bring in some decent players at the skill positions, he may see more value in sticking around.
Well done mate!
Interesting take on trade bait. I think Gabbert only has a year on his contract. I’m not sure what he would fetch.
Why would Gabbert be trade bait? He wasn’t effective as a starter and lacks the ability to carry an offense on his back.
It’s perfect he has one year on his deal. Teams looking for a QB can draft other players to build their roster and if Gabbert has a bad year than they don’t have to have him on their team because he’ll be a free agent. I would agree though, he isn’t really huge trade bait becaus the most we could get would be a 5th rounder. More like he provides value for the 49ers on the trade block.
You’re giving a better argument as to why a team wouldn’t trade for him. It cost the 49ers a sixth round pick in ordet to get Gabbert from the Jaguars, and he did nothing to truly stand out in the NFL since then, so I doubt any team would be willing to trade anything more than a seventh round pick or a roster bubble player for him.
James, I agree, Gabbert does have trade value.
Gabbert showed how limited the QB play can be without a decent O line. He actually showcased his talents pretty well, and looks like a QB that will not throw the ball like the DBs are the intended receivers, like Hoyer did in the playoffs. Gabbert is only 26, so he could have a long career as the Texan QB. If the Niners could manage a second round pick for him, I would be very happy.
A second round pick?! The GM who makes that move should be fired and not allowed another GM position ever again.
Well, at least I did not call for 2 firsts and a second, or 2 seconds like Alex Smith.
That’s still a ridiculous cost for a player who hasn’t shown any form of improvement.
Well, if they will only get a 5th rounder for him, it would be better to keep him.
MWD
Seb is obsessed with trying to steal another team’s 2nd. At least he’s pushing a backup QB now instead of 2 PS players and an ancient.
Well, I hope you agree that getting a second round pick is desirable, especially with such a deep draft.
I postulated a trade with 2 starters and one of 2 CBs who ran sub 4.5 forties. They did have value. I put in the PS players if they wanted to go with youth.
Seb
Of course I agree that it’s desirable, I’m a 49ers fan. But nobody is giving up a 2nd for Gabbert. When Andy Reid gave 2 2nds for Alex, Smith had the best QB rating in the NFL, and had shown that he could be coached. In other words, Smith had shown Reid that he would be the perfect QB to run Reid’s WCO, predicated on mobility and short-passing accuracy.
Gabbert hasn’t shown much, frankly hasn’t had the chance, being that he played for the worst HC in the history of the NFL. At least he’s shown more than he did in Jax, so it’s likely that he could garner more than a 6th, but probably nothing better than a 4th, tops.
Well, at 2 mil, Gabbert is a good deal for a backup, and Chip himself intoned the necessity to have 2 QBs on the team due to attrition.
Considering Kaep had 3 surgeries, it is prudent to have a decent backup QB, and Gabbert did win 3 games.
With 12 draft picks, the Niners do not need to get rid of Gabbert for another pick. Unless it is a 2nd rounder, they should just keep him.
Seb
This is true. And your piece at the bottom is great. They can’t go into next season with Gabbert, Thompson, and a rookie. They’ve got 2 guys for the price of 1 right now. This will be the year that dictates the future.
Sil, glad you saw I put in a little research. I tried to get a sampling from most of the recent SB QBs.
Yeah, Seb, it resonates a lot more when one can point to that kind of evidence, I think. There are a lot of different ways to think about stuff during this time of year, and when someone brings something new and solid to the table, it’s great. That guy James Foster has a good post up on this page somewhere too. Interesting, different take.
OT but I have been wondering about the Ravens. With Flacco having both an ACL and MCL, I think they may take a QB in the first since they will be able to get decent defensive players later due to the depth in the draft.
Ravens have a ton of needs, so the Niners should be able to be guaranteed to choose between Jack, Buckner or Stanley.
Well, the Texans are desperate enough for a decent QB. Hoyer, their present QB, threw passes that looked like the DBs were the intended target in their playoff game.
The Texans, with their third ranked defense, would love to have a QB who did not suck. A rookie may take a few years to develop, so getting a veteran QB may be their best strategy.
This was a terrible article Grant. You gave very weak reasons why Gabbert shouldn’t start and why Kaepernick should. You can do better than this.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/nfc-west-scout-no-problem-giving-qb-adams-shot-camp
That is one stupid scout.
Why?
Which one? There were eight scouts in the article.
Kevin Dodd and Kamalei Correa are two players I’m interested in seeing compete at the combine….
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cut-chip-ex-eagle-says-kelly-will-succeed-49ers-if
Chris Biderman making a case for a Kelly-Bradford reunion:
“Or put another way: Bradford’s learning curve might be the least steep of any potential option while San Francisco tries to return to prominence in a division loaded with talented defenses.
In his first eight games, Bradford completed 62 percent of his throws and had a 76.4 passer rating, both ranking 27th among quarterbacks. But after the team’s bye in early November, Bradford’s production improved dramatically.
He completed 68 percent of his passes, ranking fourth during that period, with a 97.0 passer rating while averaging 280 yards passing per game with 10 touchdowns and four interceptions.”
“Bradford appeared far more comfortable in Kelly’s offense, which is predicated on decision making and accurate throws, two areas where Kaepernick struggled the last two years.”
“Despite his long injury history, Bradford will be an option worth considering for Kelly while he tries to make his mark during the first year with his new team.”
http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/02/18/considering-a-sam-bradford-and-chip-kelly-reunion-with-49ers/
Yet a defender stated that they would ignore the run option because Bradford would not risk running with the ball. That was one reason the Eagle offense sputtered. Having either Kaep or Gabbert as mobile QBs will make the Zone Read option work.
True. But it was a surprise to me when Kelly traded for Bradford. After all, it was pretty obvious at that time that it was highly unlikely that Bradford would keep defenses honest with an ability to run from the zone read. Surely, Kelly knew this but he traded for him anyway.
Desperate times called for desperate measures, hence the 2nd Round pick he foolishly paid for him….
I can understand the learning curve point that Biderman makes. With all the upheaval on the team and if they truly have a desire to potentially make a significant improvement in the win column, then having a QB (the most important position on the team) who already knows the new coaches’ system could be a big advantage. Might not be a good choice for the long term, but possibly for the short term.
With regards to the zone read, Kelly had this to say after Bradford was hit by Suggs during the preseason:
“It was just a handoff. Not every shotgun run is a zone-read play. We didn’t run any zone-reads. We don’t run as much zone-read as everyone thinks we do. I thought the interpretation on the field was correct.
He said it was a read-option play, but it wasn’t a read-option play. I know our quarterbacks can get hit on a read-option play, but not every run we have is a read-option run. We run sweep, power, counter, trap — all of those things out of the gun.
Everyone in the league runs shotgun runs. Are they going to hit every quarterback in the league when they hand off in the shotgun? That’s up to the league. I think it would be troubling for the league if every quarterback in the shotgun can be hit.”
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/2/20/9874820/how-one-play-changed-sam-bradford-in-chip-kellys-offense
Well, he was a definite upgrade from Foles. I think Chip was counting on Murray to carry the load, but with Mathis leaving, the guard play suffered.
Kelly’s offense is predicated on the running game. Don’t let anyone tell you different.
Word
Agree. But that statement doesn’t have to include the QB running the ball. Or are you implying that it does?
It absolutely does.
Then how do you explain Kelly trading for Bradford?
Lack of options.
Why did he need to trade at all? Foles was great in 2013 and not so great in 2014. But the Eagles record was still better in 2014 than 2015. With regards to running here are the stats:
“In 13 games Foles ran 57 times for 221 yards, averaging 4.4 yards/carry. Compare that to Bradford’s paltry 26 attempts for 39 yards with an average of 1.9 per carry in his 14 games in 2015.”
The Foles data is for 2013, I believe.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/2/20/9874820/how-one-play-changed-sam-bradford-in-chip-kellys-offense
Kelly’s 2014 game vs Fangio’s 49er defense was a turning point.
Prior to that game, Kelly’s offense terrorized the league. After Fangio shut him out, his win/loss record plunged.
Not saying its all Fangio. Eagle FO issues, bad personnel moves, injuries played a part. But when you look at his record with at Philly, the dividing line is pretty stark.
The day Fang devoured the chip
Eagles Offensive Stats vs 49ers Defense – Sept. 28, 2014
Points – 0
First downs – 11
Total yards – 213
Turnovers – 4
Penalties – 10 (70)
Third Down Conv. – 5-13
Fourth Down Conv. – 0-2
Total Plays – 56
Time of Possession – 17:43 (49ers 42:17)
The Eagles didn’t get past their own 43 yard line until after 6:35 left in the 4th qtr.
Drive. Plays / Result
1. 6 / Punt
2. 6 / Punt
3. 3 / Punt
4. 6 / Punt
5. 6 / Fumble
6. 2 / Fumble
7. 3 / Punt
8. 2 / Int
9. 3 / Punt
10. 15 / Downs
11. 4 / Int
Chip Kelly’s NFL Head Coaching Record
Before Fang ate the Chip – 13 W, 6 L
After Fang ate the Chip – 14 W, 15 L
Not suggesting Fangio killed the Chip Kelly offense from that point forward. Injuries and the well documented FO issues had alot to do with the fall off.
But It does seem like a pivot point. Kelly has a near dominant record before he played Fangio’s defense. A losing record after.
Did Fangio “write the book” on Kelly’s offense for the rest of the league?
Source – http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201409280sfo.htm
Brodie,
I find that highly doubtful.
(Did Fangio “write the book” on Kelly’s offense for the rest of the league?)
The Eagles won 3 of the next 4 games so if the book was written then people weren’t reading.
After 4 games, Foles was out of the season and the Eagles still closed the season 4-4.
So after the Niners game the Eagles were 7-5 on the season, with most games with their backup QB.
Hardly a sign that their offense had been figured out.
The “losing record” after the Niners game is mostly due to 2015 results, with a very much different offense than 2013-14.
So to paint that Niners game as a pivot point seems like a bit of a stretch.
Yes, that was a defensive gem.
But let’s not forget that the Eagles had Nick Freaking Foles as QB.
The guy can’t even be the starter on the Rams.
That the Eagles were able to win some many games with him, and that people were surprised by how bad the offense looked against the Niners is as much an endorsement on Chip’s work as is on Fangio’s.
I actually do not care if Kaep sticks around and Gabbert for that matter. Bringing in Vernon Adams would be a good thing. Chips system makes the QB in every case, a better QB. I was optimistic last year. My optimism this year is tempered until free agency. With the cap room used for a couple of big signings on defense and drafting defense with the first pick would go a long way towards re-establishing a dominate defense. Snag me a center and a and a OL with the second and third pick and I could see this team doing well next year. The team has to buy in, and the team has to run the ball and a QB that is a threat to run and the offense will do well.
Posters who flippantly declare that they do not want Kaep are not thinking it through. If not Kaep, then Gabbert will probably struggle like last year, and with Cards and Seahawks in the division, the playoffs will seem unattainable.
Counting on a rookie to make it to the playoffs is laughable. Cam took 5 years to make it to the SB. Both Winston and Mariota failed last year. Alex Smith was thrust into the starting lineup as a rookie, and he still has not made it to the SB. It took RW 2 years and the Seahawk defense to make it to the SB. It took Joe Flacco 5 years to win a SB. It took 11 seasons for Eli to win 2 SBs. Aaron Rodgers had to sit for years before he got his chance and won a SB after 5 years.
Only Kaep made it to a SB after playing in 10 games, and now some posters think he is washed up. Kaep gives the Niners their best chance to succeed. If Kaep is gone, expect losing seasons for the next few years.
What about “Big Ben” in Pittsburgh? It takes more than just a QB to win a SB; otherwise, guys like Marino would have a fistful of rings. Look at Trent Dilfer in Baltimore. That alone validates the proof that it takes more than a QB to win a SB.
Joe Montana admitted he would not have won without Ronnie Lott. It does take a whole team and if there is a weak link, it might be enough to thwart their ambitions.
Hopefully, the defense will regain their past form and the offensive malaise will be cured. Kaep is only a part, but since he touches the ball every offensive snap, he is a crucial factor in moving the ball and scoring.
Seb, I’m with you. This team definitely needs Kap, especially with an offensive minded head coach who can get the best out of him. My personal opinion is, Kap lost confidence running for his life, being sacked so much, not having recievers get open quick enough, and a building full of rumors and turmoil. Now I believe kap can’t win games by making people around him better, he’s not cut out like that. He needs a system, he needs players, he needs confidence in his kraft. He had that in 2012-2013.. Then for some reason, they tried to change him and the roster he took a discount to keep strong.. Well he is in prime position to be with another good football mind and reap the rewards of his discounted contract. No need to bounce now.
I am hopeful. If they had hired Shanahan, I think Kaep would be long gone. Now that they hired Chip, Kaep is an ideal QB to be able to run his system.
Keeping Kaepernick will be Kellys down fall. He should have a pretty good idea how bad of a QB is Kaepernick and actually can’t read opposing defenses and find his open receivers and sucks in the pocket. Blaine Gabbert and smart and very accurate from the pocket even though he doesn’t have a good line.
Probably why he tried to trade for him….
It doesn’t mean anything if the the rumors that he tried to trade for him or not. That’s History ! Move forward dude you still living in the stone age your boy Kaepernick doesn’t have it, his next occupation should be in Hollywood that’s where he’s good at in front of the camera showing off his biceps.
You’re a drive by shooter on Kaepernick, who I might add is under contract to the 49ers. As long as that’s the case, I will continue to support him. Keep carrying your Bucket Full Of Hate….
He’ll appreciate your support for him until the end of March but beyond April1st, you’d better start looking for another QB for the 49ers to support.
I could give a rats ass if he appreciates it, and quite frankly, I really don’t value your advice. Just saying….
Razor, when I’d read your last post, man you made me spill my wine. :)
Kaep is Chip’s best chance to resurrect his coaching career. Kaep is a perfect fit for Chop’s system, and thank God Kaep finally has a coach who is smart enough to accentuate his skillsets.
Seb, what skill set does Kaep has? Sure he can throw the football 60 yards and when the ball is snapped all he does is think about where to run with the football instead handing it to the running backs or finding and throwing it to his open receivers.
Well, I have seen Kaep throw passes that are jaw dropping. Very few other QBs could have made those throws. He also put his foot on the half yard line, then sprinted up field untouched for a TD. He not only out ran the LBs, he outran the DBs.
I also watched many Nevada- Reno games. He ran the pistol and had to do multiple reads and make quick decisions. Against Boise, I saw Kaep will his team to victory, even though Boise St. was the superior team.
That playoff game against GB where he ran for 181 yards, just showed me that he is an extremely talented player.
Kaepernick cannot adjust to opposing defense and the other team has kaepernick numbers that’s why he looked like a mediocre QB.
Bloody brilliant!
Look at Cam Newton his a way better overall QB than Kaepernick he didn’t survive the Broncos defense. Do honestly think Kaepernick would’a done better than Cam?
Funny, I’ve never seen Kaepernick pout like a baby, or give up on recovering his own fumble, while the game was still in question, in the Super Bowl, because he was afraid….
Cam Newton thought by him winning the MVP in the NFL he’s already above everyone. What drove him to that was too much pride and expectation on himself that he’ll win the SB single handily. But the Broncos defense didn’t allowed him too.:)
Cam’s MVP shoes were soooo pretty….
Kaepernick, operating behind a Top-5 OL in 2012, reached the SB, and the NFCCG in 2013. He came one stupid Harbaugh timeout away from winning the Super Bowl. In fact, he has been superior to Cam Newton since they were both drafted; this year, Cam played behind the 2nd best OL in the NFL, but he didn’t come as close to beating the Broncos in the Super Bowl as the Niners did the Ravens.
Question is, who is more Superior between the two now??
And when it’s said and done who’s going to have a more brilliant career. Certainly, Cam Newton for one thing will have a better NFL career and secondly he has more upside than Kaep.
Why? How do you figure? He saw a ball sitting on the ground in front of him after dropping it there and instead of picking it up, he ran the other way screaming. Can’t bet on that guy.
Bah. Cam melted down big time. He may never win a SB. all they have to do is rattle him, and he collapses like a house of cards. Did you see him fall down on the side line when the play went against Carolina? Cam, like Manning, was the beneficiary of a great defense. However, Manning, even with his weak arm and legs, knew how to play well enough to win a SB.
You’ve not watched how good Cam Newton played the whole season, you’re basing he’s overall performance in one game against a stout broncos defense, even the great maybe hall famer QB Tom Brady was denied by the great defense of the Broncos.
Seb that’s why Manning is a hall fame QB. You’d said Cam melted down big time, so did Kaepernick against the Seahawks defense they’d rattled him up and the poor bewilder Kaepernick didn’t know where he was playing at.:)
Jamaica Panthers Fan
You forgot how good Kaep was in 2012 and 2013. And then you jumped to the Panthers, and now you’re a Cam Newton fan. You’ll jump again soon. See ya, chump.
Siliconchip, sorry to disappoint you I’m not a Cam Newton or a panther fan for one thing. To tell you frankly i’m just a football fan. I’m a 49ers fan for a long time but to tell you the truth Kaepernick doesn’t impressed me all.
Siliconchip, sorry to disappoint you I’m not a Cam Newton or a panther fan for one thing. To tell you frankly i’m just a football fan. I’m a 49ers fan for a long time but to tell you the truth Kaepernick doesn’t impressed me.
Behind that O line, no QB would succeed. Once Devey was benched, Gabbert actually had time to throw. Once Pears was removed from the RT position, the Niners played a lot better.
Too bad Kaep was injured so badly, he had to have 3 surgeries. He was injured because the O line acted like turnstiles.
Seb, C’mon man do you honestly believe that crap? If he was injured why didn’t he tell the 49ers management sooner and wait until the season is over? Too many smoke screen..
Well, when he had those surgeries, I think that fact told the Niners he was injured. Maybe the team doctors did not have his best interests at heart when they failed to diagnose those injuries and made him play while injured. When he threw the ball into the ground, maybe they should have gotten a clue that something was not right. I never heard Kaep on the injury report, so either the doctors were hiding his injuries, or they were incompetent.
Or maybe the player is just not very good?
You seem to always blame everyone else but the player. I’ve never heard you once place any accountability on him? Why?
For 2 years he showed a diminishing return based on his play. At some point you would think its the player and not this huge conspiracy theory you keep babbling about!
Seb, I believe you’re a die hard Kaep apologies. I’ll respect that. But you think those 49ers doctors are incompetent because they didn’t discover Kaep’s injury sooner you said. I thought this group of 49ers doctors are professional with a degree in their field of medicine and swore that they will take care their patients to the best of their knowledge & abilities. And that’s why they are getting paid lots of money by the 49ers organization to look after their players.
Prime, I have said that Kaep regressed, but you refuse to acknowledge that Kaep’s struggles could have been due to injuries. He had 3 surgeries. Over 2 seasons, he was sacked 80 times. One game he was sacked 9 times.
If the O line had given him more than a nanosecond of time, Kaep may have played better.
Remember, Kaep took the league by storm, and now with competent coaching, I hope he does it again.
Seb forget the CK from 2 years ago, the injuries and the bad coaching and surrounding personnel.
The bottom line is he is a bad teammate! The Aldon situation, the relationship with the media, the players around the league verbally not endorsing him, he is a cancer.
I know it breaks your heart but he needs to start fresh in a new city to resurrect his career. Go be a back up for a year and earn a starting job.
SF is the last place he needs to be!
He did indeed take the league by storm, but all that was, was a flash in the pan!
Jam, maybe the fact that Kaep had to go to Colorado to have his surgeries spoke volumes about what Kaep thought about the Niner Doctors.
Once again, I will stress that I never heard Kaep on the injury report, so either they were downplaying the injuries, or they were incompetent. They did not look after the players. They forced Kaep to play while injured.
Prime, Aldon is not blameless in this matter. He lost a 100 million dollar contract over a woman who did not want him. Maybe he should have been more mature about the situation, instead of imploding. He had 100 million reasons to move on, but could not.
The same Niner doctors that were ultra conservative with Navorro Bowman? To me those same doctors did it very well with him.
Seb, or it’s the other way around Kaepernick knew about the injuries and he kept it a secret from the 49ers doctors. Because he was afraid losing his starting Qb position like Alex Smith did when he went on injury. But still that’s not an excuse for not performing to your ability out on the football field. He’s just guilty like the 49ers doctors you say are incompetent as well.
Seb,
I like Kap as well, but in my humble opinion if Kelly really wants him it will likely be because like some of us, Kelly is enthralled by the 2012-2013 CK7.
The current Kap persona and abilities are very different than what we witnessed in his first two seasons. His regression, his move on Aldon’ girl friend (a breach of teammate etiquette) are just two reasons why CK’ may have lost respect on the field and the locker room.
Let’s face it, the ideal of the current CK starting at QB this year boils down to the lesser of two evils if he beats out Gabbert in TC because Gabbert is not the future either.
I view the prospect of Kap being our 2016 starting QB like this; He will need to be better than the explosive and exceptional player that went to the Superbowl. Why? because although he was good enough to get us there, he wasn’t good enough to get us over the top.
Last I looked, we go to SB’ to win.
This team has many holes to fill and maybe Kap or Gabbert can help make us a little better than last year, but the way I see it, our franchise QB has yet to put on a 49er uniform.
I hope Kaep can go to Aldon and apologize for his transgression, and clearly state that Aldon’s former GF said that she had broken off the relationship before Kaep became involved with her.
I do not think Kaep lost the locker room as much as the FO was pushing to get rid of him with all those leaks. Heck, they would not even let him on the side lines. That was sending a message loud and clear that they did not like or want him.
Seb,
Just for the sake of it, let’s agree that CK has not lost the locker room. Let’s eliminate the Aldon/girlfriend situation from the equation.
My question to you would be; When has CK been a vocal leader both on and off the field?
Last years rookie QB’ Mariota and Winston showed more leadership on the field in their first season than CK has shown during his entire NFL career thus far.
I am far from being a Kap detractor (you should know that by now), but unless he makes some major character changes and uses better judgement he will never be regarded as a true leader in the locker room and in the huddle.
AES, I will counter your argument by saying that Joe was not a vocal leader in the locker room. He did all his talking on the field, just by being cool, calm and collected. Randy Cross would say that after Joe got sacked hard, he would not say a word like most QBs would, and that made Randy feel even worse, so he would try 10 times harder to protect Joe.
Sometimes a leader does not have to be a rah rah type. He just needs to lead by example. I think Joe would defer to Ronnie Lott, who would fire up the squad in those pre game speeches.
I also agree with you. Kaep needs to show better leadership skills. Those PCs were brutal in the beginning, but in the end, he actually wore a suit and answered all the questions with full sentences, instead of monosyllabic grunts. I hope Kaep ditches the head phones and does more practice sessions with Bob Lange.
Maybe I should clarify. Joe did speak, but there were other leaders on the team who were more vocal. It helps when they had Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott who both commanded respect.
Joe led by being Joe Cool. He did not say as much, but when he spoke, players listened.
Seb,
It is bordering on sacrilege to put CK’ name in the same sentence as Joe Montana’s.
Again, some here are still infatuated with the 2012-2013 Kap to the risk of doing themselves a disservice of not honestly viewing the current CK with all that has unfolded over the last couple of seasons.
If Kap had won the SB he would have stood on the shoulders of the great Montana and Steve Young and there would have been a certain aspect of respect attributed to him that come with a SB win. One of those attributes would have been a level of leadership that comes with winning a Superbowl.
But CK did not cross that bridge and his subsequent seasons following the SB have been less than stellar – or to the point of losing his starting job to put it succinctly.
Instead entering the 2016 season with the knowledge that CK is our proven and undeniable QB and leader, we enter the 2016 off season with questions such as; can Kap regain his mojo and will he even be on the team?
Seb, that’s a far cry from a QB in which we could say his career is defined by leadership.
AES, I did not include Kaep in the same sentence as Joe. I did talk about 2 different styles of leadership, though, and Kaep needs to improve.
Seb, you should’a said Harbaugh, the 49ers stout defense and OL and Gore’s excellent running game was the reason for Kaepernick success. Without those ingredients Kaep was just a mediocre Qb.
Seb
There’s never a second chance to make a good first impression
OREGON,
C’mon my ol’ frienamy, you can’t say that CK didn’t make a good first impression. It’s his regression after the SB that has been his demise.
Hey, I find it interesting that the 49er and Kap’ reps want to meet in Indy. Will the Org wait to see how the combine QB’ perform before meeting with CK’ reps?
Who knows, CK’ future might hinge on the combine.
The 49ers Owner and GM are both stupid if they don’t draft a franchise QB in the Draft. Lets face it, Kaepernick is not the answer for the 49ers he’s history. And the 49ers don’t want to turn back the page and wait for this guys Kaep to be a franchise QB which he’s not.
What franchise quarterback?
Well, my first impression was that after 10 games, Kaep was a Super Bowl QB.
AES do you remember when Grant reported that Patton made a mistake and Colin ripped him a new one. I don’t think he has the personality of an upfront leader. When he tries he doesn’t do it very well.
Living in Denver its reported all the time that Manning tears into his receivers when they don’t get stuff right. For a while he wouldn’t even play with Cody Latimer because of how frustrated he was with his preparation.
wilsonm,
I do remember that. But Kap’ rip on Patton was based more on frustration than a show of leadership.
I saw J. Winston get in the face of his entire OL on the sidelines to light a fire under them. I saw the players he was speaking too totally giving him their full attention. Not bad for a rookie.
When CK became the starter, he would try to hard to appease players like Randy Moss and M.Crabtree by telling them (on the sidelines) that he would get them a TD pass.
Kap’ exuberance on the sidelines was refreshing but singling out a few players as opposed to bring the entire offense together was a missed opportunity to take on a true leadership role.
Kap has a huge uphill climb to regain the starting role again. He has to prove that he is head-n-shoulders better than last season in training camp. He will need to regain the coaches confidence and probably his biggest hurdle, gain the confidence ad respect of his teammates again.
I like CK a lot, but this may prove to be to tall an order for Kap to overcome.
Wilson, I think it was because Patton was goofing off, and Kaep was trying to get him to focus and get serious. It was also in TC. Brady would rip his WRs during the game.
I did not see Kaep be negative along the side lines, but I saw other players throwing helmets. Keeping cool calm and collected is hard to do in the heat of the moment, and I saw the other Niner players lose their composure way too many times.
I blame the coaching for not preparing them properly.
AES
Joe Montana wasn’t a vocal leader; he was incredibly cool, which, I admit, Kaep doesn’t seem to be, but he was not vocal, not your typical type of leader.
Montana became a leader by virtue of his penchant for winning throughout his career and of SB’s.
He was consummate non-verbal leader who led by example. Kap has yet to meet neither of those criteria.
Any leadership value he received during the 2012-13 season was smothered by his poor judgement along the way. From his wearing the cap of a different NFL team to his move on a teammates girl friend it seems to validate the opinion that CK’ less than stellar judgement is questionable at best.
Kap has his work cut out for him if he wants to win over the locker room again. What worries me is that winning his teammates confidence is only half of his uphill climb – he still has to prove that he can play to his 2012 level again as well.
As I said earlier, that is a tall order.
AES
Early in his career, after the 1981 Super Bowl victory, Joe Montana had an LT-sized cocaine habit, and it was such a problem that Bill Walsh almost traded him. That’s history, and we’re in a different world now, but CK7 has been a relative choir boy in comparison to Joe.
It’s funny, we all sit here and judge Kaepernick harshly, casting aspersions on his actions with “Aldon’s girl” or his strange fashion sense — but we don’t really know what goes on behind the scenes. What we know is that Aldon’s alcoholism has caused him to be an epic disappointment, so maybe we’re not really seeing the picture as clearly as we might imagine. I’ve been guilty of it.
I’ll bet if Kaep recommits himself to the team, and dedicates himself to a rigorous mental program with Chip and Ryan Day, it won’t be long before he’s back in the captain’s chair.
Regarding Joe Montana, if he had a bad drug addiction the team did a great job in keeping it behind closed doors. Today’s athletes are living in a glass house become of the advent of social media.
While CK has not been on the police blotter he has made decisions that have been immature and lack keen discernment. The type of poor judgements Kap has made are the kind that damage team spirit.
Montana may have made a poor decision that was hurting himself – Kap made a decision that hurt another teammate and subsequently himself.
*because* of the advent
“His regression, his move on Aldon’ girl friend (a breach of teammate etiquette) are just two reasons why CK’ may have lost respect on the field and the locker room.”
and that is why I think #7 is no longer a 49er.
Not sure the Cowboys takes a QB as 1st pick after the suspension of Gregory.
And Goff not ready to start thats uncertain till he really starts and from my point of view if a guy really has all the intangibles he can start but it depends who is the HC and if there is a good QB already see Favre-Rodgers.
“from my point of view if a guy really has all the intangibles he can start”
Do you mean like Montana and his intangibles who sat behind a QB that was just good enough to get you beat?
I made the SAME points at the end of the season. 1 QB IS CAREER 8-27, the other has lead his team to 2 championship games and a SB.
Chip’s background in theology may be too much for QB7 to surmount. Chip has a strong sense of right-and-wrong and we have seen QB7 playing on the edges of morality over his career. QB7’s on field performance is not enough to help him thorough this conundrum ala Peyton Manning. Based on this metric Chip may well find QB7 falls short on integrity affecting his leadership role. The Nessa-Aldon-QB7 event is the most recent character failing for QB7. This headache might be a bridge too far for Chip who is trying to build a winning team. QB7 may well not have a friend in Chip Kelly.
Am I the only one peeved the NFL made comp picks trade-able this year, then delayed the change until 2017? They actually had the “2016” crossed out. Doubt Baalke was very happy about it.
Kap is a one pitch thrower–fastball. That only works if you’re Mariano Rivera.
In the Pro’s, a variety of throws and reads are needed, hence, Goff wins this election by a landslide
However, I’m of the opinion that if you can get a QB who fits your system in the later rounds while using those earlier picks on defense and WR, that’s the route I’d take. Remember, Walsh got Montana in the 3rd round and traded a 4th rounder for Steve Young.
NFC West Scout: ‘No problem’ giving QB Adams shot in camp
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/nfc-west-scout-no-problem-giving-qb-adams-shot-camp
It’s interesting to see the way the article is spun as being a compliment to Adams. I see it more as a backhanded one, as the scout said I would have no problem giving him a shot in camp but didn’t think he was worthy of being drafted.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that you’ve backtracked/changed your mind yet again Grant, but hey its your blog.
If Kelly wants Kap to stay and Kap reciprocates then we can see if he really does fit the scheme and if he can beat out Gabbert, but from what I’ve seen and heard Kap doesn’t really fit the scheme and doesn’t want to be here anyway.
I know many think it’s a crazy idea, but I could see them trading or cutting Kap, and signing Bradford instead or drafting a rookie in round 1 and bringing in another vet to compete with Gabbert as the place holder. Anything is possible but it doesn’t seem either party wants to be in business with each other right now.
Rocket:
You may not have seen it, but I posted an article above where Chris Biderman provides a case for Kelly bringing Bradford to the 49ers.
Just saw that Cubus, thanks for posting it.
“The 49ers need Kaepernick for at least one more season. They have almost no chance to make the playoffs without him.”
This might sound silly but why is it so important for the 49ers to make the playoffs next season?
Turn that around. Why is it so important to have Kap when Adams is already a plug and play QB who has played in Kelly’s offense? Take Adams in the 4th, and walla, you don’t have to wait a year for a new QB to learn the system.
My question had nothing to do with the QB. Clearly you like Adams but don’t just make up excuses to say so.
Like you, my question had nothing to do with QB, but team building (however, since you get to mention the QB position so do I).
Oops, my apologies. If I had known you were an imbecile I wouldn’t have bothered responding. My mistake.
There’s a new website. You must have mistaken this one, dealing with NFL, for the one you’re looking for: Idiots looking for an education…Good luck with that one.
And, Stryker, your dumbfounded photo says it all– maybe it could double as an advertisement for your new educational resource as well.
7. San Francisco 49ers
Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State: They get a mobile player who can excel in the pocket in Chip Kelly’s offense. This would mean Colin Kaepernick is done
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pete-prisco/25490739/priscos-2016-nfl-mock-draft-10-eagles-start-fresh-with-paxton-lynch
If the 49ers draft a QB in the first, I think it would follow CK being traded/released.
in New England, Bill Belichick is running the show. I mean, hes a man of many talents. OC, DC, GM, HC, he has a say in it all. Thats what Jim Harbaugh was getting at. Jim Harbaugh was starting a dynasty, like how Belichick started one in New England. Minus all those cheating scandals. (Don’t shoot the messenger, please.) But no. Trent Baalke saw this coming from a mile away. He was not going to lose his job over this. He was going to poision the ears of Jed
http://nflcraving.sportsblog.com/posts/12848238/the-demise-of-an-nfl-dynasty–the-san-francisco-49ers.html
One has to give Harbaugh credit, he did one of the top 3 defensive coordinators in the NFL
The man took the team to 3 straight NFC championships. Thats unheard of. Coaches like Harbaugh don’t come around very often. But story goes on, Harbaugh is shown the door.
TomD
You’re a dolt. Harbaugh has never won anything at any level. He was a drill sergeant who knew enough to hire Fangio, but was too foolish to move on from his idiotic allegiance to Schembechler offense.
So, you want to anoint a 49ers coach, anoint Fangio. He’s the reason the 49ers were successful from 2011-2013.
Dolt.
Considering what he did at SD, Stanford (for the first few years) and how he got Michigan to greatly over achieve without Fangio I think that is a bit harsh.
Jim Harbaugh had Fangio for one year (2010) at Stanford, and brought him to the 49ers because he wanted the strongest staff he could get.
Of course, the real story is that Jim wore out his welcome at the non football scholarship University of San Diego, wore out his welcome at Stanford, and had worn out his welcome right after losing to Seattle on the last play of the NFL Championship game. It’s only a freak of nature that USD and Stanford continued to win with the remains of Jim’s program.
They will probably kick his incompetent ass out of Michigan within the year.
“The 49ers will meet with Kaepernick’s representatives this week in Indianapolis, according to NFL sources.” – Barrows
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article61654057.html
“Meetings between team officials and the agents of prominent players are common and often perfunctory in Indianapolis.” – Barrows
I’m guessing its a feel out meeting between both parties. Colin needs to know where the team stands. The team needs to know where Colin’s head’s at.
They’re also meeting with the representatives of Williams, Boone, and Boldin.
I don’t see any of those players (including Kaepernick) returning in 2016.
Down on Goff, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/60478/325/draft-rankings-big-board-30?pg=1
On Tunsil: “The game against Auburn might have been his most challenging, but Carl Lawson plays like a future first round pick.”
Lawson certainly does. A real shame he decided to stay at Auburn for at least another year, as he would have been great value in the 2nd/3rd round. I like him better than Spence.
What do you like better about him Scooter?
Excellent first step explosiveness combined with great strength and hand usage. He’s a highly disruptive player that can also be strong against the run.
Because he’s had difficulty staying healthy the last 2 years, I understand why he chose to stay another year. If he can keep from getting bitten by the injury bug this year, he’ll be a top 10 pick. #howmethe$$$
Yep, I expect so to. I certainly am not surprised by his decision, just think its a shame he’s not available this year as he probably would have been a guy that could be taken lower than his talent should dictate.
I was bummed too, but I’m sure Coach Steele is not….
Ranks
23 Cal QB Jared Goff
24 North Dakota St QB Carson Wentz
25 Memphis QB Paxton Lynch
No other quarterbacks in the top 75 players. Its a nation wide dental emergency.
3. Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott is interesting.
I had a dream of a Hyde/Gurley backfield, but a Hyde/Elliott committee would be a combination to salivate over as well. Too bad the 49ers don’t have that luxury….
I loved Gurley. I was so bummed the Rams snagged him at 9. Gurley+Hyde would be deadly. Fresh legs and extended careers.
Clearly Goff recognizes defenses and has the ability to throw a man open. He smoothly goes through his progressions and hits the open receivers. So the QB bar is not very high for the 49ers, we just have not seen this in 15 years since the York’s took ownership. I would settle for Goff if he was available.
There’s no sure thing quarterback in this draft. Nothing approaching an Andrew Luck. Luck’s a rare duck.
Quarterbacks usually have a far “lower floor” than most first round prospects. In terms of likelihood of NFL success, only injured players or players with substance/off field issues carry the same risk.
Drafting a quarterback top seven means skipping an almost sure thing player that can help your team win right away… for a guy with a roughly 50% chance of being a total flop.
(this very same subject is being discussed in the Dallas papers)
Imagine a draft being alot like Russian Roulette using a gun with 10 chambers…
– Andrew Luck: 9 empty chambers
– Most Quarterbacks taken in the top seven: 4 to 6 empty chambers
– Most other positions taken in the top seven: 7 to 9 empty chambers
It will be painful to skip some fantastic players like Jack, Stanley, Treadwell, Buckner and so on… but I’m still taking Goff. He has drawbacks (thin, fumble rate) but his combination of positive traits are too good to pass up.
I’m no football expert by any means. If anyone sees specific negative properties Goff has I welcome the feedback as tools in my tool box for deciding who we should draft.
Pointing out flaws in Goff (or Kaepernick or Gabbert) does not make you a “hater” in my mind. I can use all the info I can get.
I take your point Brodie, but I think the real issue comes down to whether you think his expected ceiling is worthy of taking him so high. Some people will look at him and see a potential elite QB, others will not.
I fear this year that teams will be projecting some of these QBs as better pro prospects than they really are simply due to need and a lack of alternatives. When I look at players I try and compare them to players from previous years to try and gauge whether I think they are worth being taken at a certain point in the draft. With Goff, I think he’d have been behind Winston and Mariota quite comfortably last year, but could have gone in the mid to late first round. In 2014, I think he would have been slotted in around the same area as Bridgewater and Carr (late first/ early second). So I can’t help but think any team drafting Goff (or Wentz, for that matter) in the top 10 is overdrafting the player.
Part of the problem Scooter is the very notion and expectation that a QB from the college ranks immediately translates into a franchise or elite QB especially if taken in the first round.As you know the likelyhood of that occuring is a low percentage. Perhaps Goff or Wentz for instance could be “that guy” but throwing them into the fire of a starting QB role immediately might be the very thing that mitigates that possibility.The need for a patient cultivation of talent seems less and less possible in frantic cauldron of the NFL today and it is taking its toll.
The idea a first round pick must start is one of my big bugbears. If a team feels a QB will develop into a star player but needs development time, they are still worthy of being picked in the first round and be given the time to develop. Same goes with any position.
Regardless of position, a player drafted in the top ten should have elite traits that translate to winning the starting position….
Baalke is on the hot seat. He will try to draft Day 1 starters with his first two picks.
“Baalke is on the hot seat. He will try to draft Day 1 starters with his first two picks.”
Wouldn’t that be nice.
Can he do it, Grant?
Grant Cohn February 22, 2016 at 1:29 pm
He will try to draft Day 1 starters with his first two picks.
Don’t most GM’s?
Not Farmer Ted!
“Regardless of position, a player drafted in the top ten should have elite traits that translate to winning the starting position….”
That is the ideal, but I don’t by any means see it as a prerequisite. The draft is about the future. You should be taking the player that you believe will be the best in 2-4 years time, not as a rookie. Use FA to fill immediate needs.
The player you “believe” to be elite in 2-4 years should already possess those traits to develop in the top ten….
Traits, yes. The consistency, NFL body and refined technique to be a starter from day 1, not necessarily.
Those can and are developed in training camp, where they often win the starting position….
Completely agree Scooter. The draft is not about finding immediate starters. It’s nice if you do, but the key is drafting players that become great players for you before their second contract.
A rebuilding team like the 49ers should especially be looking at best NFL prospects and not immediate need.
Scooter,
I fear this year that teams will be projecting some of these QBs as better pro prospects than they really are simply due to need and a lack of alternatives. When I look at players I try and compare them to players from previous years to try and gauge whether I think they are worth being taken at a certain point in the draft. With Goff, I think he’d have been behind Winston and Mariota quite comfortably last year, but could have gone in the mid to late first round. In 2014, I think he would have been slotted in around the same area as Bridgewater and Carr (late first/ early second). So I can’t help but think any team drafting Goff (or Wentz, for that matter) in the top 10 is overdrafting the player.
That’s an interesting take Scooter. I actually see it differently in that I think the QB’s in this draft are now being undervalued because of perceptions that they can’t adjust to a pro offense or will have to sit for an extended period of time.
I don’t know where Goff would have gone last year, but his 3 year run as a starter was comparable to Mariota’s with nowhere near the talent to work with. Cosell has said Goff is a better passer than Winston and I read an article where Tony Grossi said he was told by a draft guy that he felt Goff is a better prospect than Winston or Mariota. It’s all noise at the end of the day and we won’t know for sure until we see him play in the NFL, but there is some serious underestimating of Goff going on around here imo.
Wentz is tougher to predict because of the level of play and what I see as accuracy issues when pressured, but he has played very well over his time in the FCS and has it all physically so there is definitely some merit to thinking he could make a Flacco type move from College to the Pros.
Your last point was interesting in that you listed some successful young QB’s Goff could be lumped in with but then viewed it as over drafting if he went higher than they did. Knowing what we know now about Carr, there is little doubt he would be worth a top ten pick. Bridgewater as well although there are still some question marks. So why does it matter where the player is taken if you feel he’s capable of playing at that level?
Just to be clear the comparison with Mariota is their passing numbers not rushing where Mariota is obviously superior.
The comments about Goff’s body structure seems similar to what Brady looked like in his shorts at the combine. They are both tall skinny kids ata similar time in their lives.
I’m also reminded of Clark’s impression of the skinny guy at the end of the lunch counter before they were introduced. Clark thought Montana was a kicker if he was a player.
Carr and Bridgewater I like, but I doubt either will ever be elite QBs. Carr looks to me like a Cutler type, while Bridgewater looks a game manager type. Both are NFL calibre starters you can win with when you surround them with talent, and are worthy early round picks, but I don’t think either was worthy of an early first round pick. Which is how I feel about Goff.
When it comes to various people in the media saying Goff is a better prospect than Winston or Mariota, I honestly think it is just a case of short term memory. Falling for the shiny new toy. I honestly can’t see any team taking Goff over Winston or Mariota if they were all in the same draft.
When picking in the top 10 I believe you want to come away with an elite level talent. QB may be the most important position, but that shouldn’t mean you bypass an elite prospect at another position to take a good QB prospect that (at least in my eyes) isn’t an elite prospect.
But, I also acknowledge those are just my thoughts on Goff and Wentz. If a team thinks they have elite talent they should definitely take them.
Wholeheartedly agree Scooter. If Goff is sitting there in the second round, I’d have no problem taking him whatsoever….
Wholeheartedly agree Scooter. If Goff is sitting there in the second round, I’d have no problem taking him whatsoever….
Thinking you know a QB’s ceiling after two years in the league is a major leap Scooter. Andy Dalton pretty much debunks that theory. Both QB’s improved from year one to year two and in Carr’s case significantly. I guarantee you there are a number of teams wishing they had used a first round pick on him right now.
I don’t see Goff as being as prepared as Winston was to step into the NFL, but let’s not forget that Winston only started for two years in College either. An entire season more as a starter is nothing to shrug off. The point was that there are people who see this group – especially Goff – as Franchise caliber prospects. FWIW, I agree with Cosell that Goff is a better passer than both Winston and Mariota. That doesn’t mean he’ll be the better player, but he has a lot of arm talent that if nurtured and developed correctly could pay off big time.
Considering Goff is ranked as a top ten prospect in pretty much every ranking out there I don’t think this applies. What elite prospect are you passing on to take Goff at #7 if he’s thought of as being right in that area as a draft pick? What players do you see as can’t miss elite prospects in this draft at #7 that you couldn’t imagine passing on in favor of Goff? I don’t see any personally, in fact I don’t see a can’t miss level of talent in this draft period.
My view is simple: QB is the most important position in the game, the Niners don’t have a bonafide potential franchise QB, you don’t find many outside the top of the first round and who knows when they’ll be in this spot to take one again? If you get the chance to take a prospect who shows as many top shelf qualities as Goff does, you take him imo.
Classic symptoms of Whooping Goff. Probably got it from Cosell….
“Thinking you know a QB’s ceiling after two years in the league is a major leap Scooter.”
And yet you have no qualms saying that “knowing what we know now about Carr, there is little doubt he would be worth a top ten pick”.
As for the elite prospects, I think at a minimum Tunsil, Bosa, Ramsey, Jack, Smith and Buckner are all better prospects than Goff. To be honest I’m currently undecided as to which QB out of Goff and Wentz I prefer, as there are some intangibles about Wentz I really like. In particular he’s a gamer, and I think a bit like Roethlisberger is a guy that is mentally tough and plays better when he needs to. Goff is the flashier of the two, with better mechanics etc. He’s more NFL ready than Wentz.
And yet you have no qualms saying that “knowing what we know now about Carr, there is little doubt he would be worth a top ten pick”.
Not at all, because a second year QB with more than 30 TD passes and a rating over 90 is highly coveted in this league. He’s only going into year three which is why I don’t think you can put a limit on his ceiling, especially after the improvement from year 1-2.
As for the elite prospects, I think at a minimum Tunsil, Bosa, Ramsey, Jack, Smith and Buckner are all better prospects than Goff. To be honest I’m currently undecided as to which QB out of Goff and Wentz I prefer, as there are some intangibles about Wentz I really like. In particular he’s a gamer, and I think a bit like Roethlisberger is a guy that is mentally tough and plays better when he needs to. Goff is the flashier of the two, with better mechanics etc. He’s more NFL ready than Wentz.
It’s ironic that the Niners are picking 7th and you listed 6 players in the initial list isn’t it? ;)
Personally I don’t see any of those players as clearly being in a class above Goff. They are all good players, but all come with question marks especially Smith who no matter how hard they try to say otherwise, isn’t even likely to play this year. We are both speculating obviously, as is everybody else, but to me you take the QB if the talent is comparable and it is, at least to me.
Scooter_McG – Thanks for the info. You touched on some fundamental valuation issues when it comes to quarterbacks.
“QBs as better pro prospects than they really are simply due to need and a lack of alternatives.” I agree. This happens (almost) every draft.
The quarterback position is a fly in the NFL’s parity ointment.
– Teams near the top are usually desperate for quarterbacks.
– Quarterbacks have a low hit rate
– Most first round quarterbacks are “over drafted” due to the importance of the position
– Bad teams rush their quarterbacks into action
– Bad teams usually have poor quarterback development capacity
“I try and compare them to players from previous years to try and gauge whether I think they are worth being taken…” is a smart standard of measure.
Greg Cosell said Goff and Wentz look a little better compared to Winston and Mariota at the same stage of their careers. He wasn’t predicting NFL performance, just saying based on college vs college film he would rate Goff and Wentz higher as “prospects.”
For some perspective, Cosell preferred RG3 over Luck as a prospect…LOL. I’m certainly not taking his observations as bible.
Ceiling is a tough one. Most positions a ceiling can be estimated with properties like speed, size, explosion.
But there are so many ways a quarterback can get it done. Montana and Manning have totally different body types coming out of college.
Like any quarterback prospect, Goff has lots of flaws. I’m looking forward to talking about his good and bad qualities until the draft.
B2W, they said some skinny kid from ND would never make it in the NFL. he lasted til the third round.
However, while Goff is a skinny kid with throwing skills, he was not a clutch player. Goff did not do well against the stronger teams. Unlike Joe, who seemed to rise to the occasion and made some miraculous victories.
Joe was the best quarterback in history.
Goff’s college footage looks a bit like Drew Brees. They both have the odd looking habit of bending the torso (chin pointing up) to avoid pressure, but their footwork ensures the passes are accurate anyway.
I’ve noticed Goff’s base is too wide and his passes suffer poor accuracy because of it. Funny how two people look at the same player and see them completely different….
I’ve noticed Goff’s base is too wide and his passes suffer poor accuracy because of it. Funny how two people look at the same player and see them completely different….
Not many see it the way you do Razor. One of the positive traits talked about most with Goff is accuracy.
There’s always going to be a difference of opinions when it comes to scouting but Goff is in the top ten of pretty much every other list out there so Rotoworld is definitely not an indication of where his value is believed to be overall.
What I never understood was how these guys move up and down the draft board from week to week. Its possible Goff goes to being the 1st overall pick consensus by the end of the week to maybe 20th overall by the end of March. The fluxuation is insane.
FDM,
There’s a very obvious reason for the fluctuation: Most of these draft guru’s don’t watch film of every player before making their rankings early on. It’s all based on hype and what conference they have focused on the most. The reality is a player like Goff wasn’t seen regularly by these guys because he played in the PAC 12 and had a lot of games late on Saturday night East Coast time. The reason his ranking has increased since January is some of these draftniks are just now starting to watch more game film and seeing what fans on the Westcoast already know.
Unless Goff and Wentz completely choke in their workouts between now and the draft, they are likely guaranteed a place in the top ten.
FDM, everything will change once the Combine is over. This is just idle speculation. Everything will change once Free Agency is over, too.
If the Titans pick up the best FA tackle available, they might not pick Tunsil, and every draft prognostication could be skewed. Also, I predict some team will move up in the draft to select a player they really covet. Might be Rams, might be Texans.
These guys move up and down the pretend draft boards fans like me create. I would imagine team draft boards are considerably more stable.
Baalke said in an interview last year his draft board is mostly set well before the draft. (I think he said even before the combine)
He also said something surprising… a few teams (not the 49ers) have only a fraction of the players on their draft boards. 40-50 players that will work in their system.
Its really about getting their targeted player. The rest of the players are invisible.
Its a good thing to remember when watching the draft. The public and press are considering all the players “left on the draft board.” Most teams are picking over a much smaller number of guys.
It’s the most recent mock available….
You clearly have a case of Whooping Goff….
When I hear some guys here say in their post that Kaepernick should be the starter for the 49ers in 2016 is a JOKE! One more thing the 49ers can let Kaepernick walk before April 1st and they don’t owe this douche bag anything. Common sense the 49ers brass and owner don’t want to go back to last year disappointment. And keeping Kaepernick will just duplicate the 49ers bad team chemistry. Need to move forward and clean up the mess and it’s time the 49ers team go the positive ways.
Take out your hearing aid….
Actually I don’t wear one. Do you have one? :)
No, but I don’t hear anything when I read….
OK, we get it. You hate Kaep.
Personally, I like Kaep and hopes he helps the Niners win multiple Super Bowls. Forcing Kaep to be only a pocket passer was almost criminal.
Kaep, in Chip Kelly’s system, could take the league by storm.
Seb, Good luck to the multiple SB and to Kelly’s career as well, if he keeps Kaepernick. At least Kaepernick and Kelly will be holding hands heading to the exits together when they both screw up the 49ers team again. Maybe Baalke will be driving the bus out off San Francisco with them. :)
Well, I wish Baalke had been mutually parted with in January. He refused to spend 13 mil in cap space because he was not trying to win. Baalke leaked that Tomsula was going to be fired before his last game, so Jed should just keep his word and part ways with him.
However, I still believe the Niners are a talented team. Too bad the coaching sucked last year, but with Chip, Kaep has a great opportunity to play in a system that will enhance his capabilities.
If Chip can get Kaep to buy into his scheme, they may get to 10-6. If Kaep is gone, then a 5-11 season is probable.
Seb, I like your positive thinking. Kelly and the 49ers has a lot of work to do and holes to fill in the 49ers defense and OL lineup. It’s not going to take overnight like when Harbaugh took over a great young talented 49ers team that Singletary molded, especially the 49ers stout defense he assembled. It’s going to be hard for the 49ers to replace those once talented aging players who retired, free agency, injury and etc.
Um, Singletary did not mold that team. Scot McCloughan built that team. Singletary could not coach his way out of a paper bag.
Singletary was once a great player in the NFL, but being head coach is over his head.
Goodnight Seb !
G’nite.
So there is a chance that Demarco Ware might not be back with Denver. What do you guys think about signing him up for a one-year rental. Given the current market and since I think many teams will lock up any good free agent pass rushers, I think the 49ers should at least consider it. I think the choice would really make sense if we were a playoff bound team just missing a few pieces. Since that’s not the case, it might not make sense to invest in a guy that maybe has a year or two left. He does currently have an $11.67 million cap figure with the Broncos.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-demarcus-ware-may-not-be-back-with-broncos/ar-BBpMsQl?ocid=spartandhp
He is talented, but I would pass on him. Besides, he probably would not want to come here.
I see that the Niners and Kaep’s representatives will be having a meeting during the Combine week. Hopefully, everything will be settled. My guess is that they will either anoint him as the starter, or he walks. If they ask for a cut in salary, he walks. If they try to trade him, he will declare he will not play for that team and demand a release from his contract.
Hopefully, both sides will realize that Kaep’s best chance to succeed will be with Chip and his system. However, after the treatment they gave him, I would not be surprised if he walks.
I’m with you Seb, for all of our sakes, Kap, please walk!
All the great Qb’s like Joe Montana, A. Rodgers and Brady make’s young average receivers play good. Qb’s like Kaepernick make’s goods wide receivers look horrible and bewilder players when they’re on field with CK. :)
Whaaaaaaat? Seb, you really think Kelly’s going to anoint Kap the starter before he even starts working on the field and in the film room with him and Blaine?
Oh my, the elevator doesn’t reach all the floors in your head, does it Seb? Just when I think your starting to get it, you blow me away with some shortsighted comment that makes absolutely ZERO logical sense.
49, I concede that every position should have competition. However, I think Kaep will out compete Gabbert.
Gabbert has a record of 5-27, and has never even sniffed the playoffs. Kaep has a 4-2 road playoff record and has played in a SB.
It makes perfect sense to allow an injured player to regain his starting job, and it would be preferable to have the 12 mil QB start and let the 2 mil backup be supportive.
I would keep Gabbert happy by allowing him to play a few snaps each game. Heck, maybe he could play a whole series of downs. Kaep may benefit by watching from the side lines, and studying the defensive alignments.
I would go so far as to make it competitive during games. Each QB would get his chance. The QB will continue playing until he fails to score, then the other QB will get to play until the team has to punt.
This would be a huge incentive to keep scoring.
http://www.49erswebzone.com/news/91850-rapoport-kaepernick-more-open-returning-san-francisco/
Ian Rapoport is now reporting that Colin Kaepernick is now “more than open” to playing in San Francisco in 2016. Doesn’t logic suggest that Colin is realizing he doesn’t have the leverage to force the 49ers hand during combine week, with multiple QB prospects getting set to perform, and a starting QB in Blaine Gabbert already on the teams roster, getting paid relative pittens? Isn’t it more likely that Colin is realizing his stock isn’t as high as he was hoping (wishful thinking considering his recent performance and injury status) and that the best thing for his career is to suck it up and start acting like he’s confident he can win his job back this season. After all, he’s under contract, coming off the worst season and a half of his young career, and has disclosed multiple injuries which he has recently undergone surgery for?
I do believe the 49ers are genuine when they talk about a fresh start for everyone. However, it’s still also a business, and Trent and Chip are going to do what they think is best for the team first. I think they would like Colin to compete for the starting job, but Colin has to show to them that HE wants to be there and compete. His health status is still a major obstacle at this point. Whatever it ends up looking like, I just hope it works out best for all parties involved, but first and foremost, I want what’s best for the 49ers as a team! And there is an “I” in the name Kaepernick, but there is no “I” in the word team! Start acting like a team player, or step aside and let the next man up compete! Piss or get off the pot! Sounds like Colin is starting to get it.
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/49ers-will-look-for-help-in-moving-the-ball-6845792.php
Mid: I found this to be a good read. I think Branch provides some good historical perspective. However, I don’t understand why he believes Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith are potential OLB selections for the 49ers. Not in a 3-4 defense.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/rogers-long-road-leads-chance-49ers
Possibly the 49ers have their receiver in Rogers (CFL) and may choose pass rusher
All that matters to me, Gabbert is 2 years YOUNGER than Colin and more mature to boot. Gabbert has the quicker release and a better understanding of how to read defenses and pull the trigger. Blame him all you want for the short throws on 3rd down but its as much on the OC to call plays that have the WRs running past the sticks and its on the WRs to actually run past or to the sticks….Gabbert cant just throw a 7 yard pass when the WR runs only 5 yards.
49er’s have problems at QB–it’s undeniable. The bar is so incredibly low that watching Goff read through his progressions quickly and hitting the open man is refreshing.\
Currently, the 49er’s have no one with that capability.
Hitting the open man CONSISTENTLY.
MJ,
The age is irrelevant unless the younger player has shown evidence of being better and so far that isn’t the case. What we saw from Gabbert last year was a caretaker mentality at the position. Playing it safe and not scoring anymore on average than they did with Kap. We can blame the OC and WR’s,,but if you do so then you have to allow that for Kap as well. The bottom line is it’s questionable whether we have a QB on the roster we can win a SB with or even get back to the playoffs with for that matter, but in comparing the two, one has a much better resume and history and it’s not Gabbert.
What we saw was a QB who put up better numbers, had 3 wins (to Kaeps 2) and was a guy who was a total reclamation project. Kaep was coddled and given every opportunity to succeed and has digressed…Gabbert failed from the start and when referenced it was always as a joke yet he overcame that, worked on his craft and has shown a lot more than Colin did last year.
I’ll take the fighter over the man who puts headphones on and would rather run sprints than open his playbook.
And he’s 2 years younger and about 14 million less.
Gabbert wasn’t very good though. He had better numbers but most of it was empty meaningless stat padding with few positive results on the field. There is no doubt Kap took a major step back this past season. His confidence was shot, but you don’t base decisions on small pieces of information, you base them on every piece you can find. As I mentioned, Gabbert’s history is not good and it wasn’t all that good last year even though you are believing otherwise. Gabbert hasn’t come remotely close to achieving the level of play Kap has previously. Kap may never achieive it again either, I don’t know, but at least I know he’s been there and done it unlike Gabbert.
The other stuff you said about taking the fighter over the guy with headphones is nonsense. You can say a lot of things about Kap but there aren’t many guys in the league as competitive as he is. As to the rumors about the playbook, funny that Harbaugh got some pretty good play out of him and has never mentioned anything about a lack of interest in studying the playbook or watching film. He has no reason to keep heaping empty praise on Kap yet he still talks glowingly about him. Instead of taking gossip as gospel look at what those closest to him say about him.
Rocket
If Kap was as competitive as everyone says, why didn’t he learn from his mistakes and correct them in moving ahead instead of regressing ?
Also when Kaep was unceremoniously jerked from the field of play for Gabbert, he had the advantage of having worked for 2+ years taking snaps with the first team, whereas Gabbert had been playing off to the side with the scrubs until called in to put out the fire.
As to Gabberts ‘short’ throws, he hit his receivers in the hands before they got to the sticks. I expect a whole lot better this year in our passing game
If being competitive was all it took to achieve success, more people would be successful. It’s hard playing QB in this league and even more so for a QB who completely changed his way of playing the position once he was drafted. Gabbert played better than Kap last year but that’s because Kap fell to a level that couldn’t get much lower. It wasn’t a case of Gabbert playing well. More a case of playing competently and cautiously while not improving the offense much in terms of points. It doesn’t matter how well he throws the ball if he is throwing it short and not converting 3rd downs.
The problem is that Kaeps descendence is that it wasn’t just 2015…it was 2014 and 2013 and lots of 2012. Look at his performance as a whole, he has a handful of very good games but mostly average and a lot of poor games, games where he did nothing to elevate the team and get them the win (if they won or lost). I don’t see him going back and improving, he’s just not that player, he’d rather be in the gym or on the grass working on his physicality instead of his mental side.
Nobody is arguing he is inconsistent. What gets overlooked is that it is inconsistency, and not a complete downward spiral. Kap’s biggest problem is string good games together instead of scattering them. Obviously he needs to become a better QB in terms of his pocket awareness and accuracy, but consistency from week to week in what he does well would be a major improvement.
Oregoniner, Maybe Kaepernick is really not that good of a Qb, The way I see it, what contributed to his early success the 1st year because of the good young talented players surrounding him at that time. The 49ers stout defense were always in the rescue when CK and the 49ers offense struggled. The good running game of Gore and HC Harbaugh was a big factor as well. And offensive line was awesome. Now, that all those factors are not there anymore to cover Kaepernick deficiency, he can’t hide his bad performance anymore and it shows how terrible he is as a starting Qb. :)
Seb, I’m not a CK hater, just saying whet i see in his ability and performances.
Great points Jam. For #7 to be successful he needs an elite defense, offense and special teams and an all world coach. And the ticker, he makes franchise QB money. Now tell me if that’s a good deal?
Kaepernick is getting paid as a franchise Qb It’s a good deal for Ck and his agent. But for Baalke and the owner Jed they think they got a good deal also. That’s why the 49ers aren’t going anywhere until both dumb and dumber sells the team to a smarter ownerships.
Although Rogerswas cut by the Cowboys in summer camp for lack of speed
Carlos Hyde, also from Ohio State, is a punishing runner who absorbs too much punishment to handle a 250-carry workload. With Elliott, Chip Kelly could have a potent backfield to employ his run-heavy attack. The Eagles ranked seventh in 3 seasons under Kelly.
Branch brought that up in a discussion of potential first round prospects the 49ers might consider. He mentioned Ezekiel Elliott given Hyde’s punishing style, and Kelly’s running game.
I don’t expect the 49ers to use a first round pick on a running back, but could we see it happen?
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/2/22/11092592/san-francisco-49ers-running-back-depth-chart-free-agency-2016-nfl-draft
2016 NFL Scouting Combine: Why Vernon Adams Needs to Have a Breakout Day
I propose the 49ers think about trading down– out of #7. Swap 1st round positions, Pick up an additional 2nd rounder, take a pass rusher with their 1st pick, swap 2nd round positions, picking up and additional late 3rd rounder and draft Vernon Adams. Receivers could be found later in the draft–if needed.
University of Oregon quarterback Vernon Adams is gaining traction leading up to the 2016 Scouting Combine and NFL Draft. Adams’ participation in the 2016 East-West Shrine Game spurred the continuing momentum of his draft stock
above draft scenario based on this article:
http://ninernoise.com/2016/02/22/2016-nfl-scouting-combine-why-vernon-adams-needs-to-have-a-breakout-day/
Late QB candidate for #49ers? Mel Kiper Jr. mentioned Oregon’s Vernon Adams in 4th Rd and Arkansas’ Brandon Allen in the 5th.
Matt Barrows Verified account
@mattbarrows
Walsh never drafted a D-II Quarterback for good reason. The week in, week out completion drop off is too severe.
Baalke’s consistent offensive draft failures make the selection of Wentz an unsound choice.
NFL mock draft 2016: Pre-combine mock goes quarterback to 49ers
let’s take a look at Dan Kadar’s latest 2016 NFL mock draft at SB Nation. Kadar has the San Francisco 49ers grabbing North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz with the seventh pick
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/2/22/11086244/nfl-mock-draft-2016-pre-combine-mock-goes-quarterback-to-49ers
49ers draft Wentz-above.
Tom, Wentz is not a Div 2 Qb. He is a Div1 FCS Qb, he comes from the same level as Joe Flacco and Jerry Rice.
I’d take a flyer on Everett Golson in the 6th/7th or UDFA. The dudes got the arm and speed, just wonder if he has the ability to overcome his turnover issues.
MJ this next comment is coming from the heart of a Notre Dame fan. Golson? NO,NO, NO and HELL NO. imho
Again…in the 6th or 7th or UDFA, why not? I watched every snap he played at ND, well maybe not every one, but the guy, in 2 season, racked up 41 passing tds, 14 rushing TDs, helped guide them to a NT game, got them to a bowl game in 2014….and is not named Tommy Rees.
Yea, I live in South Bend and Golson is still in the doghouse around here….
Why is he in the doghouse? I know he had that academic issue in 2013, but I mean with the way Malik started,and how well Deshone filled in this year (which will be interesting to see play out this spring), after Everett left, I don’t see the problem anymore.
And I know it won’t happen but I’d love to see Fuller get picked up by SF, but hard to see him making it out of the 1st and wr is probably 4th or 5th biggest issue for SF.
MJ,
I was joking, in the 6th rd with 4 picks what the hell, I can let bygones be bygones.
Holy cow Grant, I think I am going to start calling you the arsonist. “CK should be the starter in 2016” talk about throwing gasoline on the fire. I’m surprised some of the posters haven’t started a mutiny but then again you certainly put yourself on Seb’s Christmas list.
;p
I would not have Seb on my Christmas list because he wants the 49ers to lose, constantly forcing his talent barren players, Kap and Hayne on us.
Thanks Coach–haven’t followed them since UC Davis engaged them in D11.
However, Walsh traded in front of Dallas for Rice…Obviously he spotted something, right.
Walsh also signed 4 time Pro Bowler Jeff Garcia out of San Jose St.–not a powerhouse.
It’s all about whose pulling the strings, and Baalke has proven nothing, offensively
Even at this point Vernon Adams Jr. is better than Kap and Gabbert. He can be had in the late 3rd or early fourth round
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31FSFBGkUBc
Notice Adams keeping his head downfield while scrambling and still hitting his receiver in stride.
Kap freaks out if his 1st read is covered and scrambles for yardage because he’s too awkward in the NFL dancestep requiring a QB to keep eyes downfield and evade pass rushers without looking at them and still completing a pass.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/02/22/pro-49ers-should-resign-ian-williams-spend-big-on-alshon-jeffery/
Signing Alshon will be just as effective as signing Torrey was. You can’t put the cart before the horse. Let’s get a QB before we worry about whether or not our receivers are any good.
Last time I checked, the 49ers have Kaepernick and Gabbert under contract. Jeffery is not worth what he’ll be asking for because he can’t stay on the field….
His rookie season and last season are the ones where he couldn’t stay on the field. Jeffrey made Cutler look better than what he is. He’s easily worth the gamble.
The 49ers have plenty of receivers right now, and there will be good value prospects late. Such as Roger Lewis and Jalin Marshall….
Plenty of receivers that don’t fit the type of WR Kelly has usually employed on offense or have done squat when they have been given the chance. Also, no a true #1 WR in the group.
I found it quite telling that he wanted to make Eric Rogers his first signing, and he fits the Chip Kelly prototype. That was the 49ers F/A move for the WR position. I would be very surprised if they signed another….
It was a typically Baalke move where he signs a free agent that is low risk – high reward. It was more of the status quo.
Don’t think so. Rogers visited 15 teams, and Kelly called him personally to tell him he wanted him to be his first signing….
And that makes Rogers the answer at WR? If that’s the case, then I’m predicting the 49ers WR corps to be a worse fir for Kelly’s scheme than I first thought.
*fit
Apparently Chip Kelly thinks he could be, but what does he know?
Hard to say since he was fired from the Eagles after three seasons and only the 49ers wanted him.
MWD
Niners have 5 WRs under contract who are at least 6’2″ and run 4.5 40s; that’s exactly the Chip Kelly WR. None of them has played, but the 49ers haven’t had a competent passing game since Mariucci was the team’s HC.
Campbell, Anderson, White, Smelter, and Rogers will all factor this season.
A good number of those WRs either don’t fit the mold, have done nothing to show they can be the answer, or are just raw.
MWD
You keep saying they don’t “fit the mold,” but you haven’t stated what that “mold” is, that I can tell. As far as I’ve learned, Chip likes big, physical WRs, and the 5 I listed are just that.
Yes, they are raw, but they have played under incompetent coaches at the NFL level, so we don’t know. Add those guys to Ellington, Patton, and Smith, and you have 8 WRs that are now 49ers veterans.
You’re just flat wrong about them not fitting the mold, until you show otherwise, but yes, they are all raw, as are 99% of young WRs. They’re better than spending another $10M on a WR who is only good, and often injured. If Josh Gordon is made available, different story; 49ers should definitely pursue him.
Sorry Chip, but you’re easily in the wrong here.
Let’s start with White. He’s 6′ and weighs 192 lbs. How exactly does he fit the mold of a big and physical WR?
Next is Campbell. He’s 6’2″ and weighs 206 pounds, so he fits the big part, but there’s absolutely nothing to indicate that he has a physical aspect to his game.
Anderson is as being 6’2″ and weighing only 190 lbs; there are also serious questions on whether the knee injury he suffered during his final collegiate year will hamper him going forward.
Smelter is a guy I really like and can’t wait to see hit the field, but he has only two years of football under his belt and is very injury-prone, so expecting an immediate and productive contribution from him is borderline ridiculous.
Finally, there’s Rogers who has not done anything at the NFL level for him to even being as the fix that some on here believe.
You ask me to state the mold and then go on to describe it in the following sentence. I find that as ironic as people believing our current WR corps meet the needs of Kelly’s offense. Smith is the only WR that truly meets the criteria while the others are raw or under performing #3 WRs at best. Claiming otherwise otherwise is only denying the obvious truth.
…even being considered…
Last time I checked neither one of those QB’s was worthy of being considered a starter.
Pay no attention to Grant’s postulation about keeping Kaepernick for the next season. After one of the QB’s runs a fast 40 time this weekend he’ll change his stance and insist that that rookie is who our starter should be. And it’ll probably be someone else a couple weeks after that.
Last time I checked Kaepernick assisted in getting the team to the Super Bowl, and another couple NFC Championship games. Oh, there was that frozen tundra win at Lambeau Field. The mental toughness and intestinal fortitude to go in and win that game was an example of Harbaugh’s mighty men. Oh yea, and then he went in and helped knock out the Panthers at their house. You are not worth Ted to carry Gabbert’s jock strap, let alone Kaepernick’s….
Last time I checked Kaepernick assisted in getting the team to the Super Bowl, and another couple NFC Championship games. Oh, there was that frozen tundra win at Lambeau Field. The mental toughness and intestinal fortitude to go in and win that game was an example of Harbaugh’s mighty men. Oh yea, and then he went in and helped knock out the Panthers at their house. You are not worth Ted to carry Gabbert’s jock strap, let alone Kaepernick’s….
Last time I checked it was nearly 3 years since Kaepernick had that success and he’s regressed every year since to the point of losing his job.
Last I checked, Baalke wants Kaepernick healthy to compete against Gabbert for the unworthy role of starter, Ted….
Razor, you’re pissing in the wind. Keep polishing Kaep’s knob if you feel compelled to, I’m sure Seb will love to join in.
That’s some compelling insight and advise Ted, but I have to say, I don’t value it. Thanks anyways….
Last time I checked Grossman assisted the Bears to the Super Bowl and an NFC championship game. Should we sign him too?
Should we sign anyone that’s had success in the past regardless of how they’ve played over the past few seasons?
Last I checked Grossman isn’t under contract for the 49ers, Ted….
Try standing up and maybe you wont have so much go over your head.
Ted, you have nothing on Confucius. Maybe you should start your own fortune cookie company….
Yeah, cause Grossman ran for 181 yards and accounted for 440 total yards beating Rodgers in his own house. Idiot. Grossman. Don’t be a fool if you want people to take you seriously.
It’s always fun when someone who completely misses the point calls someone else an idiot. It wasn’t about stats, it was about basing the QB’s pedigree on what he did in the past versus what he’s done lately. Idiot.
Here you go Silicon Derp, since everything needs to be spelled out for ya; “Should we sign anyone that’s had success in the past regardless of how they’ve played over the past few seasons?”
Ted
You are a repugnant fool. You brought Rez Fuggin Grossman into this conversation, so yeah, you’re an idiot.
And whatever you think your point was, you obviously couldn’t get it across your first time, but since you now say it’s about what have you done for me lately, what did Rex Grossman ever do? Nothing, ever. So what has Kaep done recently? Played injured for the worst coach in the history of the NFL behind the worst OL in the history of the NFL and still have a season on par with Andrew Luck, who is going to soon sign a “shocking” contract extension.
Cool your jets, jackarse.
I’ll bet when Gabbert makes you eat your words it will be because Kelly made him better because of the system and players around him.
This is the bottom line. The 49ers won a lot because of defense and the running game behind a good offensive line. There is no way anybody in their right mind can come to the comclusion that a horrible qb like ck will do better than a mediocre qb like Gabbert at this point. Here’s all I had to see. Last season… That’s it! Ck is done! And Gabbert is on the rise. If he played better with the same team around him he will probably play better with a better team around him. You saw what Denver did to Carolina and Newton. The option is a thing of the past and thinking that bringing it back will help ck is a joke! The day ck stands in a takes hits while delivering a ball is the day I’ll say he’s improved. The day he can hit a 5 yard pass is the day I’ll say he’s improved, the day he stands back there and can go through more than his first read and not see ghosts, is the day I’ll say he’s improved. They will plummet further into the abyss with CK! Gabberts upside> Than the ck show! No thanks! Gabbert will be your starter and will plunkett the Bay Area like JIMBO did in the 80’s! Watch and book it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBGR2I6pFYk
Niner I am with Grant in one area, Gabbert stinks. The plays were there down field, he just never made them this season. It wasn’t coaching or play calling, it was him. I think it’s foolish to believe Gabbert will be any better than we’ve seen him. I also don’t expect any of these QB’s in this draft to pan out immediately into great QB’s. Both of these things show how desperate we are that we are willing to buy into unproven production from QB’s who’ve never played a down of NFL football and a QB he throws behind the sticks more than nearly any QB in football. Kelly might be able to do something with Gabbert, BUT Sanchez, Foles, Bradord, Vick are all better QB’s in their previous play than Gabbert has ever shown before Kelly started working with them. Gabbert has a quick release but he’s as bad as Kaep in that he goes right to the check down quickly. Do you really think we can win with that? At least Kaep knew where the down markers were.
Ehhh. He knew where the down markets were? I saw him time and time again lose yardage while running and not throwing the ball away and ending up behind the LOS!
Heck at least Gabbert can complete those short passes. My take is Gabbert was basically a rookie last year with an advantage of experience. Sounds funny but the dude had even less talent around him in Jax. A first rd pick they tried to force to save the franchise.
I would pick Gabbert first because he has the mentality and brains to play the position. I just don’t think ck is fast enough in that department. I’m not saying it’s a huge difference between the two but the money owed is. Last season was supposed to be the season ck finally got it. It was his worst season yet, Gabbert however had his best. Although it wasn’t probowl caliber it was still an improvement. Idk for some reason I can see Gabbert flourish with the right system and coaching.
Ck and the option will fade away like it’s been doing since Baltimore laid out the blueprint.
And I totally agree with the draft, this is why I say go defense heavy and let a year tick away for the offense. Seriously couldn’t get any worse than last season.
Ninermd, did you see Scooter’s post at the top of this thread bout Kaep’s throws to the sticks? So he knew better than Gabbert. Gabbert stinks. Stop making excuses for him that you nail people for making on behalf of Kaep. Gabbert’s only quick to throw to check downs and hot routes. Stop with the rookie stuff, it’s lame. Jacksonville is loaded with 1st round picks, they’re terrible still.
Scooter
I think Kaep’s average pass on third down being 0.7 yards past the marker and Gabbert’s being well before the marker answer that to some degree
Enough is enough taking a running Qb in the draft. We need a smart talented mobile Qb that can throw the football accurately from the pocket with a quick release and knows where his open receivers are, and knows what the opposing defense are trying to implement. Why not used the #7 spot in the draft for one of top Qb in the draft. Build his supporting cast around him with the 11 remaining choice in the drafts for 2016. The main thing is to get a Signal caller that we need to turn the pages to success and perhaps win the SB in two years.
Yes, we have Qb name C. Kaepernick that you guys say has lots of skill set, he can throw 60 yds and he can run with the football. But he lacks the knowledge to recognize opposing defense adjustment to him and his very poor finding where his open receivers are and when he gets flushed out of the pocket he start running or getting sack This guy had a lot of chance winning with this good talented group of guys, and when some of his supporting cast retired and some went on to FA it got worse for him. The bottom line is, he just don’t have it.
Seb, sorry I’m not a CK hater, I’m just telling what I see with this guy CK poor performances. Just don’t make an excuse he almost won a SB because of he HC fault he got denied.
Aaron Rodgers isn’t in this draft….
No he is not.
However, the way the 49ers can build a defense at times, Goff, who can go through his progressions, or Adams all look better at this stage than any of the 49er QB’s.
The bar is so low that anyone who can make one read only seems to be acceptable.
Jamaican, how about a dose of reality? There’s no QB in this draft that can take this team to the SB in 2 years or even 4 years. If we’re in the playoffs in 2 years that will be a success. This team needs talent in a lot of places.
Wilson, you need to start somewhere and take your best shot. But if you’re still living in a stone age era and not trying to do something new to get a positive result, and then you’ll get the same negative result. You need a reality check::)
By the way, 1) Jared Goff, 2) Carson Wentz, 3) Paxton Lynch are going to be great QB’s in the NFL. This guys are NFL ready Qb’s and CK has reach his ceiling. :)
Jamaican, let’s come back to this in 4 years. Think about the drafts with Cam, Kaep and Dalton, Gabbert, Ponder, Maziel. On and on on we hope these guys will be the next Brady, Montana or Manning. Even Luck and RGIII didn’t pan out. These guys are all hype right now and nothing more. But hope away in unproven people. ITs wishful thinking.
Well, when you called him a douche bag, I saw a glimmer of hate, at least.
Maiocco’s Projected Draft Pics:
1. First round: Own pick, No. 7 overall
2. Second round: Own pick, No. 36 overall
3. Third round: Own pick, No. 69 overall
4. Fourth round: Own pick, No. 7 pick in round
5. Fourth round: Projected compensatory selection*
6. Fifth round: Own pick, No. 5 pick in round
7. Fifth round: San Diego pick acquired from 2015 draft trade-back, No. 3 pick in round
8. Fifth round: Projected compensatory selection*
9. Sixth round: Dallas pick acquired from 2015 draft trade-back, No. 3 pick in round
10. Sixth round: Denver pick acquired in trade for TE Vernon Davis, No. 32 pick in round
11. Sixth round: Projected compensatory* selection*
12. Sixth round: Projected compensatory selection*
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/mackensie-alexander-vs-south-carolina-2015/
Might be a good choice for the 49ers to 1st. Jared Goff, 2nd Paxton Lynch, 3rd I’d like Carson Wentz.this guy might be the real deal.
The 49ers might be able to take one of this 3 Qb’s in the1st rd.
Grant, next presser, you have to ask Chip about this:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/22/evan-mathis-this-broncos-team-would-have-eaten-chip-kelly-alive/
So much for that Grant:
Chip Kelly is not scheduled to have a press conference at the NFL scouting combine. He would be the first 49ers coach to not take part.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence….
Smart move. Less leaks with less said.
I think it’s kind of cowardly. He’ll have to address Mathis’ comments sooner or later. By choosing later, it will linger and smell….
Razor
Cowardly ~!? What in the hell are you getting at ? You’ve had hair across your fanny all week….you’re better than this….
Is it Kelly being cowardly or is it the front office putting on Kelly?
There’s two sides to every debacle and I’m very concerned about Chip repeating the same mistakes. I’d like to hear Chip Kelly’s side and how he plans on avoiding the issues Mathis raised going forward. Instead, the F/O and Chip have decided not to put themselves in position to address the matter….
Why does he need to address Mathis? Mathis is obviously a disgruntled former player who has an axe to grind, and Chip Kelly’s record speaks for itself.
Beside, the Broncos ate the Panthers alive, and they were 17-1, and a lot of people thought they were the best team in the NFL.
Besides, Chip has a completely different roster now, and hopefully QB with better functional mobility than the motley crew of statuesque QB’s he had in Phily!
I read that article, what do you think Razor? I think of guys like Sherman who hated JH as a coach. Then you’ve got guys like Luck who like him. I wonder how much of Mathis’s perspective is true and what’s a sour perspective?
Seems like a couple things I question in Mathis’s statements. He calls Kelly’s offense vanilla. Did he pay attention to the Bronco’s offense this year? Pretty vanilla if you ask me. Seems to knock his credibility to me. I don’t doubt Kelly has a short leash for guys who think they’re bigger than the scheme. I also don’t doubt he’ll struggle with certain temperaments. I think it’s a stretch though for Mathis to say he couldn’t have coached the Broncos. Those offensive guys bought into and played in a scheme that didn’t highlight their strengths as an offense. That says something about the coaching and the willingness of the players to put the squad firsts. Kelly could be as bad as they say, but we don’t really have any over the top personalities.
Treadwell will not run the 40, which tells me he’s probably a 4.6 guy….
It definitely tells me his 40 time is of concern to him.
Maybe, but it could also be that he doesn’t want to risk an injury running the 40 since he had to come back from a broken fibula and dislocated ankle.
I think that is extremely unlikely to be the reason. He has played a full season since that injury. If he’s worried a 40 yard dash will re-injure it at this point then I think every team should be put on notice about his ability to stay healthy.
True, but we’ve also seen a good number of players pull up when running the 40 and he could be trying to avoid that happening.
That’s laughable. You cannot be serious MWD!
Think about it. If he suffers an leg injury at the Combine, that would be his second injury related to his legs and would raise the question of his durability.
Now does that mean that is the reason? No, but it also can’t be ruled out.
He already has durability concerns and why will he run it at his Pro Day? Is that the day he won’t be afraid of pulling his hammy? Why even show up at the combine and do any drills, if he’s that concerned?
Pulling up while running the 40 would only enhance questions about his durability, no?
Sure, just as choosing not to do it because he’s afraid he’ll pull his hammy. I hope that’s not the reason he’s giving scouts. It’s not, because he’s already stated that he wants to devote training time to it, so he can be fast on his Pro Day….
Which is fine. I was merely suggesting another possibility. Also, please don’t pose a possibility and dismiss it in the same breath.
The point is, he’s afraid of testing slow, not pulling his hammy. For the love of God~!
No, the point is that I posed one of a few possibilities for the heck of it and you chose to show bad taste while proposing and dismissing a possibility in the same breath.
That explains it. I though you were serious….
Of course not! ;-)
We seriously need a sarcasm font.
Maybe Ted needs one too?
Nah, he just needs another Airplane movie to star in.
They made a third Airplane movie, it was called The Naked Gun and that hack Leslie Nielsen got my role!
Whatever, at least I don’t have a drinking problem. Besides, Priscilla Presley is way hotter then Julie Hagerty.
Based on his film and without running a timed 40 yard dash he’s the consensus #1 WR. What reason does he have to run at the combine. If his film and college stats are enough for pretty much every draft site to consider him the top WR prospect what can he gain by running the 40?
Aren’t you one that usually says that players are picked based on their film, not how they run in their underwear?
He’s not running it because he’ll test slow. That’s why he’s devoting training time to it so he can mitigate it at his Pro Day, where he plans to do it. With respect to the combine, it’s a good complimentary scouting tool….
Regardless of the theories the fact of the matter is that he’s not running because he doesn’t have to. When you are already considered the #1 choice how is it going to improve your stock especially when that isn’t what teams are basing their choice off of anyway. Why go out and risk a hammy when you’re already the #1 choice? If he runs at his pro day I’m pretty sure it wont be anything to be impressed by and no on will care.
If he’s afraid of pulling a hammy, I’d have to question his constitution….
And if that’s the case, why even show up and do any drills. He could break a nail….
Really, so only weak constitution receivers pull their hammies? Healthy receivers don’t strain or pull their ham strings when their trying to run fast or hard?
I wouldn’t get your panties in a bunch over it, Ted. There will be plenty of receivers, running backs, cornerbacks who will not be afraid of pulling their hammy. They will compete and make themselves money, or not….
So begins the repair of a broken relationship between the 49ers and Kaepernick. May the weeping and gnashing of teeth begin:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap3000000637704/Kaepernick-open-to-returning-to-49ers
Though I’d rather not think about it, you have to wonder if the fact he’ll earn more playing for the 49ers in 2016 than with another team is the main reason he’s willing to return and not the possibility of Kelly revitalizing his career after reaching a low point in 2015.
You mean like Alex Smith did with Harbaugh?
Different circumstances entirely. Harbaugh convinced Smith to stay; we have yet to hear anything from Kelly about wanting Kaepernick to stay.
You’re right, one is under contract and the other shopped himself around, before finding out his best shot was with Harbaugh….
Which time are you talking about Razor: 2011 or 2012?
He visited Miami in 2012 and came back knowing his best shot was returning to Harbaugh….
Okay, but the circumstances are still different Razor. I don’t recall the front office trying to discredit Smith during that process.
I don’t recall Kaepernick saying he didn’t want to play for the 49ers….
That wasn’t even close to what I said.
Though I’d rather not think about it, you have to wonder if the fact he’ll earn more playing for the 49ers in 2016 than with another team is the main reason he’s willing to return and not the possibility of Kelly revitalizing his career after reaching a low point in 2015.
“the main reason he’s willing to return”? Sounds like someone is convinced he didn’t or doesn’t want to return to me. Or is this another fun musing?
We’re getting our wires crossed here Razor. This thread has gone from talking about me wondering about Kaepernick’s in regards to returning to play for the 49ers to you bringing up Smith to me saying the circumstances were different and us chatting a little while on that to suddenly going back to what I said in my first post.
Since we’re back to discussing my first post in this thread, I can reply by repeating that I didn’t say that Kaepernick did or didn’t want to play for the 49ers; instead, I was indicating money could be his motive for for being open to playing for the 49ers in 2016 despite how how the front office tried to discredit him.
Fair enough
Dear Kaep, I know you probably will not read this, but I have to write it this way to tick off folks, so here goes.
First of all, I hope you are not like Jed and hears these blog messages loud and clear. Stay off media because it is a distraction, and a huge time waste.
Please spend most of your free time studying to get better. You should study the team chalkboard sessions with Bill Walsh. Put them on loop so you can watch and learn at any time.
I want to be on record that of all the posters on this blog site, I have been one of the few that like you, and want you to be the Niner QB. I recognize your unique skillsets and think you can win multiple SBs.
I was thrilled with your accomplishments, and looked forward to seeing you in the red and gold, helping the Niners to win games.
I wish to apologize to you for the boorish behavior of the Owner. You have every reason to be peeved, but I hope you have a little forgiveness in your heart, because Jed just did not know better. I do not think he did it maliciously, he just needs to learn to be a man. He was responsible for the leaks, because he opened his mouth and uttered those words. He should have kept his big mouth shut, but could not. Please move on and forgive his slights. I think you are big enough to do it.
I think Jed has somewhat atoned for his sins, because he could have hired Shanahan. Instead, he hired Chip Kelly, and his system is Ideal for your skillsets. Chip will look like a genius if he can resurrect your career, so he is licking his lips and rubbing his hands with glee just thinking of the myriad ways he can use you properly. Finally, Chip has 2 mobile QBs, so he just doubled his playbook.
Your job will be to become unpredictable, and present too many threats for the defense to counter. You should buy into the Chip Kelly up tempo offense, and if you have decent O line play, you should make one of your goals to be to put the ball in the hands of your playmakers. With just a few tweaks, your game can become a nightmare for DCs.
I hope Baalke fulfills his promise to you and re-signs veteran talent. I think Williams Boone and Boldin should be given pay raises that do not break the salary cap.They are needed for leadership, too.
I wish to thank you for all the thrills and victories. I am sorry for the poor coaching that limited you, and the putrid O line play that only succeeded to get you injured. I hope you become a comeback player of the year, and with you leading the Niners, I hope for a 10-6 record and a chance to make the playoffs. GO NINERS!!!!!!
Seb, after reading your long noble, you actually don’t make any sense. You already handing the starting position to CK without consulting Kelly. :) What so funny is, didn’t the 49ers in the last 2 season acquired good players in free agency and surrounded him with great wide receivers to compliment that you said CK skill sets? For one thing there’s nothing unique about Kaepernick skill set. You just don’t get it, his early success is because of the 49ers stout defense, HC Harbaugh , Gores running ability, a good OL and good special team. Without those key ingredients CK is not even an average player. and if you notice after the 49ers great players retired and went on to free agency CK performance was below average. Sorry :)
There’s nothing repairable in the relationship between the 49ers and CK The 49ers management did the right thing in benching Ck for Blaine Gabbert who has more upside than Kaepernick.
Razor, piece of advice don’t get your hope to high that kaep will be back with the 49ers. All those are just speculation after 11/2 years Kelly might have change his mindset on Kaep. But that’s good, you thinking positive especially you love for your hero to stay in the bay area. What If?
Like I’ve told you before, Kaepernick is under contract with the 49ers, and I don’t value your advise. I will continue to support him until he is no longer on the team, while you continue your crusade of carrying the Bucket Full Of Hate for him….
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/49ers-waive-te-brian-leonhardt
Chip Kelly won’t speak at the combine, but he will speak at his pro day in March.
He’s also expected to run a 2-Cohn Drill, and an EQ obstacle course involving snuggles with a yellow lab puppy and sensitivity meditation.
I just want to hear his response to Mathis’ assertion that the Broncos would eat him for breakfast….
Razor
I’m happy that ‘Chip’ chooses not to dignify that back-alley BS
I expect it to be the first question asked at his next presser, don’t you?
The two main points spelled out in Mathis’ email:
“Two of the main issues that concerned me were: 1. A never-evolving, vanilla offense that forced our own defense to play higher than normal play counts. 2. His impatience with certain personality types even when they were blue-chip talents.
Both are legit. Kelly’s offense was diminishing in effectiveness as time wore on, and he dumped some very good players even though it made his team worse. Players aren’t stupid they can see through this stuff and if they don’t have confidence that the HC can lead them to prosperity or doesn’t have their best interests in mind, they check out. Hopefully Kelly has been humbled enough to rethink his way of doing things and comes in with a new outlook moving forward.
Rocket
1.”A never evolving vanilla offense that forced our own defense to play higher than normal play counts” 2 of the three seasons that he coached the eagles they were 10-6 in the third, he had Mark Sanchez
2. “His impatience with certain personality types even when they were blue-chip talents” Does this mean that you advocate having a ‘team within a team’ ? Coddle the ‘blue-chip talents’…baby-sit the malcontents LaSean, DeSean, Boynton, and Mathis who doesn’t seem to know what side of the fence he’s on from week to week ?
Oregon,
The systems effectiveness decreased each year. We can sit here and discuss the reasons why but that is what happened. We know that Chips system is pretty simple overall and relies more on speed and catching defenses in base to exploit the matchups. Nothing wrong with that, but if defenses are finding ways to mitigate that advantage, it’s up to Chip to evolve and find a new way to operate. I know Chip is smart and that’s why I’m keeping an open mind even though I have serious reservations about this hire, but he has to keep working to stay a step ahead because his offense really is fairly simplistic in nature.
The second point becomes an issue when multiple players are jettisoned and the talent level is diminished because of it. At some point Chip has to accept that some of the problem may lie with him and not just the players. Part of being a HC in the NFL is knowing how to massage egos and personalities. It’s a necessity and if you can’t do it, you are destined to fail. You can’t dump every player who you feel doesn’t fit into your preconceived view of what you want on your team. You have to find ways to make it work because there is no generic makeup of a football player that is going to fit all of your criteria; certainly not 53 times anyway.
Rocket
with Foles and Sanchez and whatzisname for his QB(s), the systems effectiveness would have to decrease. My hope is that we draft, trade for, or find a FA who has what Chip is seeking….They ARE out there, and I’m confident that we will find at least one (I’m not convinced that we don’t already have one in Dylan Thompson) Adams, maybe, but I’m not making book on him yet.
Rocket, don’t mistake me, I respect your opinion, even though we do cross swords from time to time….one of those times is now in my disagreement about massaging egos is not good team building…my solution would be to poll the other 45-50 players on the Eagles…one discontented Olineman doesn’t make a quarum….
Dylan Thompson is nothing more than camp fodder….
Exactly Oregoni, as a matter of fact, when you consider the motley crew of QB’s he had to work with in Philly, none of which were even good fits in his offense, and they still managed to be a prolific offenses, it really speaks to the viability of Chip’s system. And it’s no secret that teams evolve and find ways to exploit another teams weakness. And there is no doubt that Chip’s system will continue to evolve in order to counter the adjustments defenses make. I’ll take the opinion of a guy like Steve Young, who thinks Chip’s offense is prolific, over the opinion of an obviously disgruntled former player who was ultimately released against his will.
In all seriousness, the value of the opinion of one disgruntled player like Mathis, who was clearly unhappy to be released, is hardly even worth the energy that I am using up typing this response.
Razor,
An easy and honest reply to Mathis’ comment would be, The Bronco”s D would have eaten every team in the NFL’s O for breakfast this year. Just ask Cam Newton.
I believe the comment, “eaten alive” was referencing how he managed individual personalities, as well as his “vanilla” offense….
I’ll never forget how Vic Fangio ate Chip Kelly’s offense alive in 2014…
I don’t think any one of us can.
Grant
Are you ever going to get over his first presser ?
EH, one game doesn’t mean squat in the NFL. Look no further than the 49er teams that have been “eaten alive” in one game during the course of CHAMPIONSHIP SEASONS. Outliers happen in the NFL all of the time. “Any given Sunday” as they say.
I can remember during the course of Bill Walsh’s WCO dominance, it seemed every season, and individual player opponent, or even a opposing defensive coordinator would claim that they had figured out the West Coast Offense, and every season, Bill Walsh’s WCO would make adjustments accordingly, resulting in a decade of dominance.
Chip Kelly has been a HC for only 3 seasons. I get the feeling Chip Kelly is just getting started!
Hmm, I thought that the Chipper had already run the 2-Cohn drill (more of an obstacle course) at his introductory presser.
Chip Kelly has a Pro Day?! I’m grabbing some popcorn for that event!
http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article61889592.html
Linebacker options for the 49ers.
On the eve of the Combine, there are 3 players who I think might break into the top 10. Reggie Ragland, Sheldon Rankins and Leonard Floyd.
Hmm, Antonio Cromartie was waived. Wonder if Baalke would sign him because his brother is on the Niners.
Why would that matter for anything.
Jared Goff,
Analysis
Strengths Quality arm. Makes all the throws and can sling the deep out with velocity and accuracy. Clean release and snaps throws off with flick of the wrist. Drives hips through his release for extra heat. Pocket mobility and poise showed improvement from 2014 to 2015. Maintains proper footwork and readiness to throw as he slides inside the pocket. Speeds up internal clock when he feels pressure or recognizes blitz. Pocket climber. Able to run out of trouble rather than into it. Looks the part of a confident, first round quarterback when working from a clean pocket. Sells his play fakes with purpose and draws linebackers forward. Has learned to expedite his throws from off-balance angles due to pocket pressure. Will throw receivers open in tight quarters. Has excellent trajectory and pillowy soft touch on touch throws down the field that give receivers a chance to make plays.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334
Tom D, If Jared is gone before the 49ers pick at #7, we can hope that Carson Wentz would be available for the niners. I like this guy Carson Wentz very smart Qb and has a lot of upside playing in the NFL.
Goff, Jared QB 6’4″ 215 California 6.7
Lynch, Paxton QB 6’7″ 245 Memphis 6.4
Wentz, Carson QB 6’5″ 232 North Dakota St. 6.2
Cook, Connor QB 6’4″ 216 Michigan St. 5.8
Hackenberg, Christian QB 6’4″ 228 Penn St. 5.6
Source of top 5 Quarterbacks:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position
Tom,
Do you believe the 49ers will draft a Qb in this years draft? If so, what rd do you think they will draft him in? If you were GM who would you draft and where?
GM Trent Baalke has his criteria, we all know that. The QB bar has been set so low for so long we’ve become used to one read QB’s, novice level passing attacks, and a GM who bases his team’s offensive concept on a brute strength rushing attack–pushing people around.
That worked well when one inherited Scott McClouhan’s defense–now what?…We go to Chip, who at least has a grasp of route concepts. In order to quickly read these concepts and get the ball to the open man (accurately), the 49ers need a QB whose done this–Jared Goff.
However, Chip may want to run his zone read. A more mobile QB is needed. In that case, draft QB, Adams, Univ. of Oregon .
Getting Adams in the late 3rd or early 4th would allow the 49ers to manipulate the draft board downwards, and acquire more picks.
Since it’s do or die for Baalke, I predict he swings for the fences knowing he doesn’t have the time for the downward trade and development scenario. He’ll take Goff if available.
If my job depended on this draft I would select Goff to be safe. If I was Kelly and had more power, I would select Adams.
Let me add that it also helped Trent’s run based offensive philosophy to inherit a Hall of Fame running back who never got injured from Scott McCloughan.
Tom,
I agree. I would take Goff or any of the top QBs if you think they will be a legit starter no later then year 2. I have yet to put my novice eval on he QBs I usually wait until the combine to start my research. Nonetheless, if a stud is there, swing or the fences.
Otherwise, I would use Gabbert as a stop gap and then as you stated maybe take a fun spread option QB that fits Kelly’s office AND JUST AS IMPORTANT…have a good football IQ with mental toughness. Adams, Prescott, perhaps these guys…
I would beef up CK talk and try for a trade otherwise cut him. I like the kid, but the downside is worse then the upside. If I was to risk rate the CK situation the potential for CK sticking around and the entire team going south far outways some “look what JH did for Alex, so Kelly can do it too…” scenario.
Coach will draft a franchise Qb with our #7 pick in the draft. That’s the most logical thing to do for a franchise that’s on a slide. Build around the franchise Qb with the remaining 11 picks we have in the 2016 draft. I’ll give the 49ers 2 years from now to be a winning football team if they draft well and get good veteran players from free agency as well.
FA could be tricky, would you over pay for someone in particular? Maybe Alshon Jeffries at WR, or an OL perhaps? Maybe both…
A lot of Sean Smith chatter… I am more of a pass rush and mediocre CBs person myself. Front 7 all the way!!!
P.S. Before anyone chimes in, I don’t believe in our young WRs. Tory is and always will be a one trick pony. That is fine, we just need to compliment.
I would argue a shut down cornerback is the second most important position on the field….
I am very much with shawn regarding the D. Give me a good pass rush with ok CBs over good CBs with an ok pass rush.
You say that because true shutdown corners are ultra rare. The most difficult position to play on defense. Erasing the opposing teams number one receiver also allows you to roll your coverages. I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal….
Draft day you won’t find another Von Miller, he’s a rare breed of elite pass rushers.
I beg to differ. Noah Spence has been compared to Von Miller recently, but after viewing his film last month, the first name to pop in my mind was Khalil Mack. Now next year, if he can stay healthy, there’s another guy Scooter and I love, by the name of Carl Lawson….
“You say that because true shutdown corners are ultra rare.”
No, I really don’t. I say it because I genuinely believe a strong pass rush is more important than a lock down CB. Actually, to clarify, I believe a strong front 7 that is able to stop the run and rush the passer very well is more important than a lock down CB. It takes more pieces to accomplish, but I think it is essential to consistent strong play by the D.
I think Revis helped out the Patriots with that championship in 2015 and I don’t remember them having an elite pass rusher….38 Sacks?
Same with the ’94 Niners, I don’t remember a dominant pass rush but I do remember Sanders erasing Irvin to get them there….33.5 Sacks?
Pass rush is a far more valuable tool to a defense because of how many passes that end up going to receivers that are even being defended by a corner back. What good is a shut down corner if the offense is dumping it off to the TE in the middle of the field?
Did the Broncos beat Brady and Cam with shutdown corners or a vicious pass rush?
“that are even”
Sorry, that AREN’T even…
The Broncos happened to have both. They had the best secondary in the league and they exposed their wide receivers just like I said they would, Ted….
They had a good secondary overall but nobody is calling their CB’s shutdown corners. When the game was over was it the secondary everyone was talking about or the pass rush?
Only two receivers are going to be covered by corners but you can have 4 or 5 offensive targets on the field. Having a strong pass rusher will be more valuable on more plays then having shutdown corner.
Oh Ted, you really stepped in it there. For five weeks in 2013, CHJr didn’t give up a score. Then all of 2014. All of it. Then the first 13 weeks of 2015. It had been more than two calendar years since anyone—anyone at all—scored a touchdown against Harris. Ted, if that’s not a shut down corner, why don’t you enlighten everyone on here just what the hell is….
If you want to make it a debate about what a shutdown corner is because you realize that you can’t argue with the fact that a pass rusher is more valuable then a shutdown corner then by all means go ahead and try and change the subject.
If you can find an article that calls the Broncos cornerbacks shutdown corners then I’ll gladly say your right in that regard but that wasn’t what this discussion was about.
An elite pass rusher will be involved and have the ability to make an impact on more plays then a shutdown corner, there’s no question which player individually is more valuable to a defense.
They had a good secondary overall but nobody is calling their CB’s shutdown corners. When the game was over was it the secondary everyone was talking about or the pass rush?
….”but nobody their CB’s shutdown corners”. Them be your words of worthless wisdom Ted. Not mine, not Seb’s, Yours!
I don’t need you or Vince Lombardi to tell me CHJr is a shutdown corner. You know why? Because he is!
Ted, you’re entitled to believe what you want, but your belief is unbelievable….
Clearly you’ve conceded that you’re wrong about the shutdown corner being more valuable then the pass rusher otherwise you wouldn’t be trying so hard to change the subject.
Ted, you’re scaring me….
“I think Revis helped out the Patriots with that championship in 2015 and I don’t remember them having an elite pass rusher….38 Sacks?”
A top notch CB can of course help you win a championship, but if you don’t think the Patriots had a good front 7 there isn’t much point for us progressing this discussion. That front 7 was plenty good, even if it did “only” get 38 sacks (or 40, whatever it was). They created pressure in multiple ways, and they stopped the run. And that is how you develop a consistently good D.
Same with the 49ers in ’94. That D was dominant up the middle with Young and Stubblefield causing havoc against the pass and stopping the run.
I think we’ve established you can read Ted, but apparently it’s selective.
“I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal”
Now Ted, I can’t at this time, give you the kind of therapy to resolution you need to solve all your problems, and you know why. I’m in South Bend and you live in the state of confusion. Go see Dr. Marvin and suggest Lithium as a more effective managing tool and maybe that will help….
I think we’ve established you can read Ted, but apparently it’s selective.
“I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal”
Now Ted, I can’t at this time, give you the kind of therapy to resolution you need to solve all your problems, and you know why. I’m in South Bend and you live in the state of confusion. Go see Dr. Marvin and suggest Lithium as a more effective managing tool and maybe that will help….
Yea, I never said they didn’t have a good front seven, but I did say they had a shut down corner….
Yep, Bryant Young was the Rookie Of The Year, and Prime Time was Defensive Player Of The Year….
So both teams had a good front 7 and a shut down CB… in a discussion of what is more important I don’t think either example really demonstrates one way or another.
I think it is very rare for a consistently high quality defense to not have a good front 7 that can stop the run and rush the passer, but a high quality defense can get by without a shutdown CB. Though obviously you still need to have a good enough secondary – a bad secondary will get exposed.
Yea Scooter, every time we visit this discussion, we end up in the same place. I value a strong front seven and you value a strong front seven. I value a shutdown corner and you value it less.
“I have no real argument against an elite pass rusher being right there as far as importance. In the end, they all work in unison for the common goal”….
We agree but it’s a convoluted agreement…; > )
“I think we’ve established you can read Ted”
I wouldn’t be so sure of that because I’m forced to admit that I’ve been arguing for nothing. I either misread that paragraph or remembered it differently and never went back to check but yea, I’ve clearly been wrong about your stance.
Mea Culpa.
@Razor
I love me a shut down corner. Dion Sanders is a top 5 all time in my book. Anyway my argument is a good pass rush. Is that a best 3 tech and an dominant edge rusher. Or two book ends with some clever blitz scheme. I just feel a revue island is sweet, but if the dude gets hurt or ego over pay and loose in other spots. Remember when we grabbed Carlos Rogers and had Spencer and those hard hitting safeties. That dBack field was not elite but we had Brooks and Smith coming of age and Cowboy abs Franklin. Plus to all pro inside lbs. God it is making me sad to think about.
Damnit. I hate the fact we lost that super bowl the following year or whenever. We should of won that game. That was the window. I digress. Damn damn damn.
Go niners
Top five for d. Sanders and position all time in case it wasn’t clear.
Let, Jerry, Montana and Brady
The 49ers would never have won their last Super Bowl without Sanders. They had no answer for Irvin….
I was working Joe Roby events for my hs booster club. Went to that Super Bowl in Miami it was awesome!!! Went off to college and the Dallas and Green Bay take over was the beginning of the dark days. GB was lucky to have back to back hall of fame QBs and they only have 2 rings to show for it. Ha!
http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawakami/ci_29552746/kawakami-colin-kaepernicks-return-49ers-is-possible-not
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