Despite offseason gains, 49ers still need to crush it at draft

File-This Oct. 7, 2017, file photo shows Florida State’s Derwin James warming up prior to the start of an NCAA college football game with Miami, in Tallahassee, Fla. (AP Photo/Steve Cannon, File)

The 49ers played extremely well to finish last season, but they still are a one- or two-win team without their quarterback.

They need more talent.

And they play in the same division as the LA Rams, who may have the most talented roster in the NFL. The Rams won 11 games last season, and just added Marcus Peters, Aqib Talib and Ndamukong Suh, and are trying to trade for Odell Beckham Jr. Four Pro Bowlers.

The Niners also play in the same division as the Arizona Cardinals, who won eight games last season without their star running back — David Johnson. He’s healthy now.

And the Niners play in the same conference as the Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers, Carolina Panthers and Atlanta Falcons — four terrific teams who could compete with the Niners for a wild card spot if the Niners don’t win the NFC West.

The Niners better crush the upcoming draft, or they could miss the playoffs next season. That’s where they stand.

These are the challenges the 49ers will face in the draft.

Challenge No. 1: Don’t take another Pac-12 defensive tackle in the first round.

Click here to read the rest of my column.

This article has 739 Comments

    1. I like the way Jed put himself in the line of fire and took Lynch out of it. Shows he’s maturing as a owner even as he his alopecia grows steadily….
      BTW, a chink has been found in JimmyG’s armor disturbing handsomeness. Reports suggest that a bald spot has been sighted at the top of his scalp — same as his employer :)

    2. Here we go again. Jed just can’t stay out of the limelight. Whether it’s his decision or not, he doesn’t need to put his two cents into it publicly. Seems little man has to throw Hos weight around to prove he’s the owner again. He could have easily skirted around that question. So what if lynch or Shanahan have it in their minds to give him another chance and spoiled boy takes that away? Conflict already. He hired them to run the team, that includes decisions like this. I’m seeing Al Davis and Jones in the making here.

    3. Two very different takes right here…one person thinks its good that Jed is involved, one the exact opposite.

      Can’t please everybody or anybody I guess.

  1. So are you out of the trade back for picks party now?

    What if James and Fitz are off the board and Edmunds, Smith, and Ward are sitting there….what do you do???

    1. If you really want Harold Landry, trading down would be fine. But, I’d rather take Fitzpatrick or James and take an edge rusher in Round 2.

          1. I agree with your leadership angle, and James has it in spades. If it were up to me, I’d draft James but Landry makes more sense in the grand scheme of things because he has proven production(16.5 sacks in 2016)around the edge. He also has two elite traits. Explosive first step, and bend. He also has speed unencumbered through the process, because he’s smooth as silk. Carlton Davis has leadership skills as well, and I’ve heard him described as a “dog”. Pairing Landry with Davis in a one, two punch would be very, very good for business moving forward….

            1. The Sneaky Pete disciples won’t draft corners before the fifth round if they run slower than 4.49, and Davis ran a 4.53…

              1. I don’t care. I’m making an exception rule for Davis, because he’s so f-ing good. Did you notice Herndon’s 3 cone drill mark? 6.66…you know, The Number Of The Beast?

              2. The more I see of Davis, the more I see the Culliveresque ability of being unable to track the ball when it is in the air.

              3. I don’t think Davis is as bad at locating the ball as Culliver was. I like him a lot. The only issue is whether he will be too physical for the NFL. Could get flagged a bit early on until he learns to tone it down.

              4. Of course he’s not, Big Scootie but Culliver was a safety playing corner anyways. Davis is an ideal apprentice to Richard Sherman, and in fact Zierlein compares him to the ex Seahawk….

      1. I wouldn’t take James that high. He is a leader true but he has no real benefit to this team.
        He’s a huge hitter, and a great athlete but not a single high safety. His instincts are Ok, but not great (see Trumaine Edmunds) and this means hes not a guy you want roaming the center of the field as a back line defender. His fit is more of the Kam Chancelor, safety/LB role. The problem is this team has several guys that can already fill this role. The selection of James would only slightly improve the defense imho.
        Due to fit, I would actually prefer Fitzpatrick who isn’t the athlete James is but is a better football player and a guy that could play center field in this defense. His instincts more than make up for the fact is slightly less of an athlete than James and his play on the field shows this, as he was the more productive player in college.

        1. James, like Landry and Key was ranked top 5 prior to the injury. You could make the argument he’s the best defensive playmaker in the draft. Mike Mayock, “When I put his tape in the first time, I thought I was going to get a strong safety that was limited a little bit with movement skills and that’s not the case,” Mike Mayock of NFL Network said Monday on a teleconference before this week’s NFL Scouting Combine.

          “He’s a big guy, he has easy movement skills, he can cover wide receivers, he can cover tight ends, he can go down in the box and hit you. The versatility of his game is critical.”

          I would add that he also can be a pseudo defensive end blitzing off the edge as well. His freshman numbers were insane. Where Fitzpatrick is near his ceiling, James’ game has room to grow.

          Mayock goes on, “In today’s NFL — which is a pass-first league — when you can drop a safety down on a slot (receiver) and feel comfortable, that guy is worth his weight in gold,” Mayock said.

          “Today’s NFL is a matchup league and he’s a matchup player.”

          “Perhaps the best defensive playmaker in the draft, James is the new NFL prototype as a safety capable of producing against the run or in both man and zone coverage,” PFF’s Steve Palazzolo said.

          “James is a movable defensive chess piece that can combat tight ends, slot receivers and opposing run games.”

          His combine verified his athleticism, and not only does Zierlein compare him to Eric Berry, he describes his personality as someone who takes over locker rooms and leads with an Alpha mentality. So yes, your contention that he’s no benefit to this team is erroneous due to the fact any position is upgradeable according to our HC, and I don’t know anyone that thinks he wouldn’t be an upgrade over our current safeties….

            1. In my mind, Tartt and James are interchangeable and right now, James is the more violent blitzer off the edge.

        2. James is a really good player imo. Definitely one of the elite talents in the draft. Even if you don’t think he fills a need you can’t lose by adding a player of his caliber.

            1. He could be a great one for sure. That’s why I’m not sweating the pick at #9. There are going to be some great options for the Niners to choose from.

              1. I think teams will see him as a liability against the run, and that will drop him to the 20s. But, he still would be valuable as a situational rusher.

              2. He’s better against the run than he’s being given credit for but you could be right on how he’s perceived. That’s how he’d be used his rookie year for the most part I would guess. Even then he’d be on the field for at least 70% of the snaps considering the amount of time the defense is in Nickel. If he drops into the 20’s he’s going to be a great bargain for somebody.

              3. Right. I agree. Edge rushers who go in the top 20 are typically perceived as all-around players who can help the run defense, too.

              4. Are you guys talking about James or Landry? I thought James was a safety not an edge rusher in the conventional sense.

        3. New helmet hitting rule will limit the “big hit” that players like James brings to the table.

          Can a hard hitting player like James change his style to fit the new NFL?
          With the new rules in place the one person who might be the best fit is Eric Reid.
          Reid came into the league as a hard hitter but his concussions precipitated a career saving change. I believe Reid could easily fall in step with the new tackling rule change and also be able to recapture his leadership role.

          Reid has not received interest from other teams and could be a candidate to come back at a bargain price.

  2. 1. More than likely, the team will take Chubb or James if either one falls to them, but I think it is more likely the team trades down.

    2. What if the best defensive prospect is a DT?

    3. I wouldn’t rule out Buckner or Thomas emerging as leaders this upcoming season, and ruling out Sherman as a leader is like ruling you out as a writer simply because you write for a sports blog Grant.

    4. Agreed, but I think Armstrong should play SAM.

    5. I think the 49ers were already planning to do so.

    1. Sherman is a question mark, not a leader. Everyone knows he has personal things to prove before he can lead the rest of the team. Same situation NaVorro Bowman was in last year. He never could lead that team.

      1. That’s a pretty lousy argument. There have been plenty of players that have been leaders even when coming back from an injury.

          1. Grant… Recall several days ago that you agreed Sherman would be strong addition to the locker room–in terms of his being an effective mentor to the DB corps? Being an effective mentor requires some leadership abilities.

          2. 1) I’m not certain you can paint every Pac-12 DL with the same broad stroke Grant, but I tend to agree with steering clear of using yet another first round pick on a defensive lineman.
            2) It’s going to be up to Shanny to exploit a weakness in the Rams, and Kyle should be able to find soft spots all over middle of the Rams’ defense. This doesn’t proclude continuing to fortify the interior of the OL, and/or finding a much needed big bodied WR like Sutton to match up up against the Rams’ big corners, and pair him with Garcon, Goodwin, and Taylor.
            3) Seriously Grant? You don’t think Richard Sherman, perineal Pro-Bowler and highest rated CB in the league for multiple seasons, naturally commands respect in the locker room? Richard Sherman is Richard Sherman, and will have commanded a leadership role the moment the Niners organize for offseason activities. Say what you will about Sherman, his strong leadership qualities born from experience, confidence, and an outspoken extroverted personality, is beyond question, especially at this stage of his career!
            4) It’s worth noting that the 49ers have a presumably healthy Armstead coming back, along with Harold, who will have a golden opportunity for an expanded role, Queen Solomon, Marsh, Attaochu, Taumoepenu, with Watson at the back end of the roster. 1 dynamic edge rusher through the draft, could do the trick.
            5) I suspect the Niners will draft at least 1 CB within the first 3 rounds, and perhaps they hit on 2 CB draft picks throughout the draft? Jimmy Ward is the wildcard who can play anywhere in the defensive backfield in 2018, provided he’s able to stay healthy.

            1. Off topic but something I need to repeat: I am very pleased with the front loaded contract strategy the Niners’ FO is deploying, with limited long term effect on the salary cap moving forward. Kyle knows what he wants and is willing to pay whatever it takes in the form of short term upfront, front loaded deals for premium players at premium positions within his scheme. A very intriguing strategy, especially if they can continue to keep there cap surplus at a comfortable number.

      2. Disagree, Grant. If a person has a deserved reputation as a leader, that will transfer over to a new organization. Initially, he will be perceived as a leader on the defense, but he does have to continue to earn that respect.

      3. Sherman is a question mark right now, he will not initially and automatically be the leader of the D. A deserved reputation can transfer over to a new team but not automatically off the bat, has to earn it in some time. Bowman didn’t last year is true. And injured leaders coming back to their same team will lead again, new team a little different, has to earn it which many do,

        1. I believe he will be a major leader of the D initially, James, because:

          1) he has been one of the top CBs in the NFL for a number of years,
          2) he has an almost “coach-like” understanding of this “Seattle-style” defense,
          3) and maybe most importantly, Lynch and Shanahan have already anointed him as a defacto leader.

          1. Not to mention the unequivocal statement from Sherman himself.

            “I’ve always been a guy to take young guys under my wing and give them any advice that they’ve wanted or they were seeking,” Sherman said. “Whether it’s staying after practice and spending countless hours of just technique or up in the film room when nobody is watching, ‘This is what I see. This is how I see it. This is situational football. These are fundamental things for me that I look for in a formation in a game, in a player, in a split.’ I look forward to helping this group grow.

            “I think that one of my best attributes is leadership and helping guys get the best out of themselves. And I think that at the end of the day, that’s all I want to do. I want to help them become better men and better players. Whatever that may be. If that means on the field just communicating better, if that’s off the field, just getting your affairs in order in a better way that’s more conducive of success, I think that’s my job and I take that responsibility seriously.”

            “At the end of the day, that’s all I want to do. I want to help them become better men and better players.” No question mark there.

    2. I’m hoping to stand pat (or even a modest trade up) to take a rare talent. Chubbs, Edmunds, James, Fitzpatrick etc. If the 49ers are nearly as good as most here anticipate, they won’t be picking anywhere near 9 for years to come. This will be their last shot at an elite high floor/high ceiling player.

      But if the Niners do trade down, I’d want at least a 2nd rounder to be coaxed out of the top 10.

      The Cowboy’s Draft Show podcast hosts were enthused about trading Cowboys 19+50+116 for pick 9.

      Would leave the 49ers with picks 19, 50, 59, 70, 74, 116, 128 in the fist four rounds. One of Wynn, Hernandez or Landry should be at 19.

      There’s no magic red button that forces Jones & Lynch to agree to trade. I’m still more into standing pat. I like the talent pegged to be at pick 9. This is just showing a scenario Dane Brugler tossed out there.

  3. Finally Grant , an article that I totally agree with. The one thing the 49er defense has been lacking is toughness. Tart and James could form the excellent enforcer duo we havent had since Whitner and Goldston.

    1. Hang on- the one thing you think the defense was lacking is an upgrade at Safety?

      There’s many things I can think that they need, but safety isn’t at the top of the list.

    2. The 49ers don’t need a fourth defensive tackle from the Pac-12, a notably soft conference.
      I agree.
      How many great defensive lineman have come from the Pac 12?

      You lost me here… blanket statements about a conference make no sense to me. Some years they are up some years they are down, but talent can be found anywhere

      Deforest Buckner
      Cameron Jordan
      Leonard Williams
      Everson Griffen
      Terrell Suggs

      Have all been very good, pro bowl level players.

  4. They can pick exactly who you say they should. And then you’ll write an article about how they blew the draft.

  5. Really? Thanks Captain Obvious.. lol

    And most teams without a good QB can barley win a game or two in this league. So again, Your just stating the obvious. No wonder people on Niners Nation rip you and your articles a part. However, I do find some of them good and interesting. But this one, wow

    1. The Vikings and Eagles won a lot of games without their starting QBs last season. The Niners are more like the Colts.

  6. I agree with the main points. To compliment or add…

    – Edge rushers. Gotta have-em. Salah frequently got opposing offenses in 3rd and long, but couldn’t close the door. Get them thar edge rushers, dag-nabbit!

    – Fitzpatrick… or Edmunds… or Chubb. As I wrote above it would take at least a 2nd to coax me out of pick 9, which seems to be within a nice sweet spot for talent relative to draft slot. Good chance the 49ers won’t be drafting this high in the foreseeable future. The time to stand pat (or move up) for an elite player is now.

    – I would take Nelson at 9 not in response to the Rams, but because it’s Nelson. Would love to see Shanahan’s run game with outstanding inside linemen.

    – I’m not writing off Denzel Ward. He’s a hair under 5’11” with long arms.

  7. Decent article but really I can’t see it – there’s been a lot of talk of St. James, and Fitzpatrick but they’re looking at moving Ward because they have three safeties they feel comfortable with going into next year. Tartt will get extended and Colbert needs more playing time.

    The real need which everyone knows is pass rusher. Chubb or bust for me but I can’t see a S being the 1st pick.

    There are a ton of needs on this club, and S is one of the best stocked positions right now.

  8. BPA is the pick at nine. I am with Brodie its going to take a lot to budge the Niners in moving down. Personally I am torn between Edmunds and Landry but then again you have to like Fitz or James and really Ward or Smith wouldn’t be bad either. Chubb, Barkley, Nelson long gone. Its going to be a real interesting draft first couple of days. Also, like some have stated, all indications point to the fact this quite possible could be the last time the Niners pick below 20 in the foreseeable future – and that’s a good thing.

  9. This was for shrubbie above. For some reason “Reply” keeps putting my comment down here.

    Rookie Ward was killed that game. Only a few games under his belt. A “welcome to the NFL” moment. I remember it well. Its by far Jimmy Ward’s worst game of his career.

    My only issue with Ward is his injury rate. I think he’d make a fine free safety. If he’s healthy in 2018 he’ll make some money.

  10. With the FA market soft for Eric Reid, wouldn’t it make sense for the 49ers to bring him back? The team needs help in the secondary. Never mind that he played well last year, showed commitment, displayed versatility (switched positions when asked), and is a good teammate

    I wonder if the kneeling has anything to do with it? Hmm

    1. Yes his kneeling has something to do with it. This is what happens when you bring your personal agendas to the work place.
      Nobody stopped him from kneeling, and he rolled with it and gambled his future. Business is more important to owners than a cause. And with him saying he won’t kneel anymore it looks like he feels the same. I guess millions are more important to him than the cause.
      Personally I’d like to see him back, I thought he was easily one of the mvp’s on our defense last year. But you had to have known his kneeling was going to hurt his stock in free agency. Whether some want to believe it or not, that caused the nfl fans and money last season. No owner wants to deal with that.

      1. Personal agendas in the workplace don’t seem to have an adverse affect on players when the agenda is displays of religiosity . Of course it is contingent on them being of an acceptable religion.

        1. rollo- this is the most inaccurate statement on the blog today!!! remember a guy named Tebow??? So religious it became a circus……out of the league because of it. I cant believe no one pointed this out to the anthem kneelers………if a guy can get black balled over jesus………..these guys are slitting their own throats with the anthem crusade.

          1. Tim Tebow was terrible at throwing the football, his religious beliefs had 0 to do with it.

            His overall completion % was 47.9%. How you can possibly say that he was blackballed is beyond me.

    2. It has less to do with his kneeling and more to do with the facts of Reid being injury-prone and an average player.

        1. So you would take an inury-prone player whose best season was his rookie year?

          I have had this same argument on other social media platforms, and the basis is still the same; it comes down to health and talent. The claims that the kneeling is why Reid is still a free agent is literally shot down in flames by the fact that several other players that kneeled or have been vocal about social injustice has either been signed or traded for. Why? Because they have the talent (and mostly health) that teams want. If Von Miller was allowed onto the free agent market, I can guarantee teams would be lining up to sign him. The same goes for many of the other elite or above-average players in the NFL. A player can be controversial (to a point) and/or unhealthy if you have at least above average talent.

    3. The whole thing is absurd. We are seeing teams ignore players who knelt for the Anthem but have given chances to players who have been involved in domestic violence, vehicular homicide and child abuse among other things. It’s all about portraying an image of respect for the Country to appease a group who get offended by something that isn’t even what they think it is. Lot of ignorant people in the Country who have to be pandered to apparently.

      1. We have also seen players that have kneeled or protest in some form be signed or traded for. All of those players have above average or elite talent for their respective positions.

  11. Of course it does. That’s exactky why they shouldn’t bring him back. Plus Tartt and Colbert are better.

  12. 1. Agreed.
    2. Agreed. We have Richburg. He will drive Suh or Donald into our Guards. He will call pass protection at the line, making things easier for Jimmy. We will still rush at Donald and Suh to wear them out, the Rams are planning on using Suh at NT at times.
    3. Sherman does count. He will be the spokesperson for the D, on and off the field.
    4. “Draft two edge-rushers” If we go that route, the first one needs to be Landry. The second would be Armstrong who could play SAM in base. Still, I don’t see two of the first three picks being edge-rushers unless it’s Edmunds and a true DE.
    5. Agree that we will take a CB in the 3rd, my preference is Quenton Meeks.

    I’ll add one.

    Challenge No.6. Find a replacement for Trent Brown. Brown doesn’t fit and he may be in the staff’s doghouse.

      1. The love for Landry is based on need. I think most realize that if we get a pass rush and improvement at CB this team could go a long ways. I haven’t seen a mock with us taking Landry at nine, I have seen a mock where Davenport is taken at nine. My guy, Chubby will be long gone by nine and your guy Key comes with some risk but still should be gone by time 59 rolls around. I think Sweat is smelling sweet at about 70 or 74.

        1. The love for Landry is based on the fact that when healthy, he averages a sack a game. That’s incredible production… especially when considering the level of competition.
          He showcased exceptional quickness and bend on tape and this was confirmed at the combine, where he recorded the second highest psparq score, behind only Josh sweat (who doesn’t have the production to back his numbers). And last, he plays at one of the most valued positions in the game that also happens to be one of the biggest needs the team has.
          For the most part teams can win without good running backs, tight ends, guards, linebackers, safeties, (depending on scheme) to some extent… But they don’t win without good quarterbacks, tackles, corners or pass rushers, and this is born out in the way teams pay these positions and in how often teams allow these positions to hit the open market.

      2. The Landry disrespect is puzzling and over the rainbow. No one in this draft has the first step explosion, and flexibility that he possesses, not to mention the production. Waiting on the Sweat’s, Armstrong’s, Turay’s, and the rest means you’re compromising at an extremely valuable position, and one you need to find in the draft. I truly believe Landry’s ability to consistently threaten the edge will force the quarterback to move up in the pocket, making our 3t’s salivate and devour….

            1. I’m with Razor, I don’t think NFL teams will slot Landry as a late first rounder. He dominated as a junior – per pff:

              Landry’s performance was made all the more important by the fact that he had so many question marks about his play in 2017. If you go back to August and look at just about any preseason draft rankings, you’ll see Landry’s name projected in the top-10 in almost every single one. The Boston College edge defender flat-out dominated as a junior in 2016, racking up 16.5 sacks, seven hits and 44 hurries. That was 16 more total pressures than No. 1 overall pick Myles Garett

              Although Garrett played in fewer games this is still impressive. I wouldn’t be surprised to see niners take him at #9, as he’s prototypical LEO for their scheme in my eyes, and would like to see actual scouts worth their salt saying late first rounder.

      3. The Landry love on this board is strange and over the top.

        Can only speak for myself, but my interest in Landry goes back two years when I thought he might declare after a huge 2016 season. Last year his numbers dropped, but his play did not. Even with a bad ankle he still played at a high level until injuring it even more severely. The way I see it, those that think Landry is unworthy of a top ten pick are strictly looking at the numbers this past season and not accounting for the other factors involved.

        I’m ok with a few players at #9, but Landry would easily fill the biggest need and is a major step up from the players who will be around at his position in the later rounds.

            1. Grant/rocket,
              Landry in the mid 20’s would be nice, but it’s also a gamble to hope he falls in that order.
              I would strongly consider him between 14-20. I have the same line of thinking as rocket.

      4. The reason I like him so much is he is the best pure pass rusher in the draft, and that is a highly sought after skill, and he looks a great fit for the 49ers D. I still believe people will be surprised by how high he gets taken. If not top 10 I expect it will be top 15.

        As for liking Davenport more than Landry because they sent more people to check him out… they are showing a lot of interest in the top edge guys. It is clear they intend to spend a pretty high pick on edge. Does anyone honestly think they don’t have interest in Landry, a guy who closely fits the mould of the Leo deployed by the Seahawks, Falcons and Jaguars? Of course they do. And sending more people to see Davenport more likely than not is an indicator of how comfortable they already are with Landry and his talents, not a sign they have more interest in Davenport.

        1. Agreed. Something that scares me about Davenport was his Senior Bowl week. He was getting reps at DT. He could be a Big End/T like Thomas.

          1. He had a bad first day of practice and an okay 2nd day of practice where the coaches ask him to rush from a three point stance. But he dominated the actual senior bowl game. Definitely the best player on the field.

            1st Quarter- QB Hurry; Sack; tackle; QB hit
            2nd Quarter- Collapsed pocket for pressure; tackle; QB hit
            3rd Quarter- Collapsed pocket; QB Hurry; Fumble recovery for TD; QB Hurry for Interception

            Played less than half the game. Came back from injury in 3rd quarter.


              “At UTSA, Davenport mostly rushed out of a two-point stance. When he did that in practices, he was fine when he could use speed to get inside. But when he had to play with a hand down and get wide around the edge, he struggled.”

              Saleh wants his LEO to have a hand on the ground. Can Davenport do it? I think that’s what Jeff Zgonina is trying to determine.

    1. It’s amazing to think Halford can still belt out the hits at his age, but he’s a freak of nature. Too bad about Tipton though. The original power duo of him and KK is no more. Only original member left is Rob.

      1. I like Motown, AES. I just like metal better. The only music I cannot listen to is rap. That’s why I could not be trusted with secret information. If they locked me in a room with that playing 24/7, it wouldn’t be long before they were no longer secrets….

        1. Think of rap less as music and more street poetry. In that genre, it can be brilliant. Metal makes my ears bleed, so to each their own :)

              1. It’s the greatest. I love it. Metal is great, too, but it died when I was a little kid, so I didn’t really grow up with it.

              2. Yeah the great metal bands stopped putting out material by the mid 90’s for the most part. I like any type of music if it’s done well. I was a big fan of George Clinton Funk and got into Rap and Hip Hop from there. There have been some incredible Rap albums that still hold up much like some of the classic Metal albums.

              3. Grant, metal doesn’t die until Judas Priest says so. Their new album, Firepower entered the Billboard 200 chart at position No. 5., their highest ever. In the UK, Firepower landed at #5, marking the band’s highest ranking since British Steel in 1980. It hit #1 in Sweden, #1 in Finland, #1 in Canada, #3 in Australia, #3 in Germany, #3 in da Netherlands, #3 in France, #4 in Belgium (#2 Flanders, #5 Wallonie) and #5 in Spain….

          1. Rap is dead, Rock is hanging by a thread. Country is too, I’m glad I have a wide range of musical love.
            Because 3000 songs are still in my ears daily.
            Nathanial Ratliff and Greta van fleet have helped with the library the past couple of years.

              1. Rap died late 2000’s.
                This crap they call rap today is god aweful.
                No meaning, no talent, no purpose. Computer generated voice overs, lyrics make no sense, and it’s later down with beats that obviously take over the lyrics.
                NAS nailed it sometime back.
                HIP HOP is Dead!

                Metal didn’t die because Danzig broke up. Punk died when The misfits broke up.
                I like Danzig, but I don’t consider them Metal.

        2. Good is good regardless of genre.

          “Metal is great, too, but it died”

          Rap died too. Old school hip-hop told meaningful stories. Early gangsta rap did too. But then rap moved toward being a comedy/gore genre, think Eminem. Em’s annoying voice and inconsistent flow paved the way for people like Lil’ Wayne and Drake. In other words, the so called “Rap God” killed rap.

          Or we’re all getting old, and everything was better when we were young. One more thing, I listened to a lot of oldies in my youth. classic rock, blues, motown, and old school country. My nephew loves Pac, Big, and Wu-Tang Clan. The good stuff will be listened to forever, the rest will largely be forgotten.

            1. Hmm, Shanny likes Wayne too. I don’t like Wayne’s voice. I think it’s just as annoying as Eminem’s and Drake’s. His flow was borderline pre-seizure, now it’s kinda slow. A slow flow is fine if you have a good voice like Method Man.

              1. Wayne has made thousands of songs — it helps to have a curated list of his best 30 or 40.

                (I have that list, if you need it).

              2. Don’t need it. I like your rap/wrestling comparison. I still consume the product, hoping it will be good again.

              3. It’s good if you know where to look. The stuff on the radio usually is horrendous. The stuff coming out of New York in particular gets worse every year. Strange times.

              4. “The stuff on the radio usually is horrendous.”

                True. Do you think we will extend Brown to keep his boombox with the team.

                I should just let it go and ride the wave. The team likes him.


                “Ever since their first win against the Giants at Levi’s Stadium, the 49ers have blared Lil Wayne from a huge boom box before emerging on the field. Right tackle Trenton Brown started what’s now becoming a tradition, blaring motivating tunes at halftime of the Giants’ win, inspiring the 49ers do it before games as well.”

            2. I’m old school Busta Rhymes. That dude has some dope skills. But I can only take a little rap because it begins to sound the same.

              I still need music with a good melody – I’ll take Stevie, Smokey, David Ruffin, and some J5 any day.
              OK, so I’m old! (lol)

            3. Wait… grant you hate Eminem’s voice but like Lil Wayne’s?
              Neither have been relevant in 10 years now.
              At least those two have lyrics you can relate too, and actually understand. The last of the hip hop genre.
              Lil Wayne
              Are some I can think of that we’re the last of the hip hop genre.
              RIP hip hop.
              Man I wish Adam Youch (MCA) was still alive. The Beastie Boys always came out with at least a hit every 4 years.

              1. The Beastie Boys were great in the ’80s when they still had their bratty sense of humor.

                Eminem is a good rapper with a bad voice who couldn’t write a song to save his life. Actually, that’s not true. His first single was great. Respect.

              2. The Beasties were great in the 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s.
                Paul’s boutique is one of the grewarest hip hop albums ever sampled and played. 89!!
                92 check your head was an awesome album, followed by I’ll communication. And hello nasty.
                Easy up on my Beasties!
                There are three bands that count to me.
                Beastie Boys and Seger!
                There are a lot of great bands, but these three can’t be beat IMO.

              3. Everything the Beastie Boys did in the ’80s was great. I liked some of their singles from the ’90s, but they lost some of their charm for me.

              4. Ugh, Em is funny, this is true. So is Weird Al. I’ll give him credit for good songs like “Guilty Conscience” and “Lose Yourself” Always hated how Em would trash his own mother though.

      1. This draft will tell a lot about the Shanalynch priorities. Their were very constrained in the last draft by the bare cupboard that Baalke left at key positions, starting with run blocking. We didn’t learn a whole lot from that draft.

        1. Mood,
          I tend to agree with your take, but partially.
          Last year did not produce any players that we could say have all-pro written on them (maybe Foster if he gets his act together), but we had a handful of players that were able to contribute.
          Ahkello Witherspoon
          Solomon Thomas
          Adrian Colbert
          C.J. Beatherd
          Trent Taylor
          George Kittle (who I believe can become a star)
          Kendrick Bourne
          Were contributors last year. I would add Matt Breida as a UDFA “gem.”
          Hopefully we can see what Joe Williams, Pita Taumoepena and D.J. Jones can bring to the table this season.

          All and all, not a bad haul imo.

          1. AES,
            I think it was an excellent draft by Shanalynch, and we will know better in another two seasons. But what I meant was that the depleted talent may have forced them to choose players at certain positions earlier in the draft than was ideal — including “overdrafting” Thomas at #3.
            This time they can sit back a little more and pick players that are good fit for the schemes without the urgency of having to look for tourniquets to stop the bleeding at various positions. That includes the luxury of trading down several notches in the first round.

            1. Mood,
              I see Lynch and Shanny making the necessary picks to help on offense and defense.
              But having said that, I still stand on my comment back when Shanahan and Lynch were hired that we are at least 3 strong draft classes away from making some serious noise.

              Last years draft class should show some obvious improvements and this years draft will likely add 2-3 starters to supplement the building project.

              We still have some hurdles in our division with the vastly improved rams and of course the cursed seahags who have beat us like a cheap piniata. And the cards will get an important piece of their offense back with the return of David Johnson. If we can go 500 against our division that’s 3 wins.
              Those 3 wins will not guarantee (depending how we do against the rest of our schedule) us a playoff spot come the end December.

              If we can gain a playoff spot I would be ecstatic, but I’m still thinking we make the playoffs in Lynch/Shanny’ 3 year when the desired players Shanahan wants are on the roster.

              1. I’d have agreed on the need for another 2 draft classes had Niners not lucked into a real franchise QB. With decent O line play leading to a functioning running game, Niners are just one impact pass rusher away from winning the division.

                I am not buying into the Rams Dream Team’s invincibility — Shanny will exploit the soft middle of their D.

    1. Thanks for the good read on Tartt. I actually just watched some highlights and commentary on him on youtube. Its worth a watch, the guy is pretty funny actually.

      But yeah I’m excited to see Tartt progress, if he can stay healthy I think he’ll prove to be a top tier safety. I would love to see him paired with Fitz or James.

      1. I can’t quite evaluate college players based on youtube highlights, but you think that a bigger incremental improvement in impact on pass defense would come from either Fitz or James at FS (over Ward/Colbert) compared to the incremental impact on pass defense from a starter-quality Leo (over Attaochu/Marsh)?

  13. I’ve always been a fan of Troy P/Minkah, lol. But I never thought we would have a chance at him until I saw this mock. Now I know it’s not what’s going to happen but if Fits was there with ward,James,Landry, Davenport and whoever, I’m taking Fitz evrrry time. To me he’s a Troy P clone. And what better person to have in your secondary. This is my ultimate draft player and draft crush.

    1. Steel,
      I see some similarities with Fitz and Troy P, but I believe that if we’re looking at comparisons, Derwin James has some Troy P, and Cam Chancellor in him.
      James can play effectively in the box if needed and also cover sideline to sideline with his speed.
      There isn’t too much separation between Minkah and James and although I’d prefer to trade out of the 9 slot in order to garner more picks I would be ok with either of these two if Lynch goes Safety.

      1. Aes.. James is way more violent,I don’t think he has the same nose for the ball. Minkah played all over the place but does not hit like James. But in my opinion that nose for the ball is what makes him more comparable. I understand the need for big hits, but screw the hits, I want the man that’s going to get us the ball back. Like Troy and Ed Reed used to do. We don’t have that and haven’t had that in a long time. Just my opinion but turnovers Trump big hits 10x out of 10

        1. Steel,
          Good points.
          But I wouldn’t diminish the importance of the big hit.
          The big hit creates the intimidation element that causes the wr to run on egg shells when going over the middle. James has the ability to control the flow in the secondary.

          But that’s my personal take on James.
          Both James or Minkah would improve our D.
          I also feel the same way about Edmunds, Ro. Smith and Landry. Anyone of these guy’s would make me a happy 49ers faithful.

  14. The situation in the secondary this year could be shaky with lots of question marks . The best way to cover (no pun intended) that situation is with a solid pass rush. I think prioritizing edge rushers/ linebackers in the draft would result in the biggest overall tangible improvement for the team.

    Giving Jimmy G a short fields more often will pay dividends.

    1. Thanks for the link.
      If you just read this Maiocco column below, Shanny makes it clear about his priorities for a pass catcher

      Shanahan’s offense with the Atlanta Falcons averaged nearly 34 points per game and quarterback Matt Ryan threw for 4,944 yards. The offense featured one of the top wide receivers in the game. But Shanahan said having a Julio Jones is a luxury, not a necessity.
      “You definitely don’t need that,” Shanahan said. “If you ever have it, then keep it. It’s very fun to have and it’ll help you a ton. But that’s not something you need.
      “You need guys who can beat man-to-man coverage. You need guys who are explosive enough to scare the secondary so it can open up your play-action game. And you need guys who can separate on third down. That doesn’t have to be a receiver. You’d like it to be all five of your eligibles — three receivers, your tight end and your running back.”

      When I read comments by draft and FA prognosticators (particularly Grant) about this red-zone guy or that #1 receiver or the other tall TE, I gotta SMH. Shanny’s first priority in a pass catcher is the ability to create separation by any means necessary (sheer speed, explosiveness, just excellent route running, etc.). He clearly states that his pass catcher does not even have to be a receiver. He probably sees his new and expensive RB as much a pass catcher as a runner.

      1. Exactly. Its something I have been saying for awhile – when looking at WRs that Shanahan will like you need to accept he doesn’t believe size is super critical. First and foremost they must be able to separate. If you can get a big that is also able to separate well then awesome, but those guys are rare.

        1. He seems to value size in his possession receivers, although they have to separate, too. But you don’t see him using tiny flankers.

          1. Calvin Ridley, Anthony Miller, Michael Gallop, DJ Moore and DaeSean Hamilton all seem like guys Shanahan would like.

              1. In 2014 I absolutely loved OBJ. I hadn’t seen such a combo of speed, agility and nuanced and smart route running coming out of college in a long time. For mine Ridley is the best in this regard I have seen since OBJ. He’s not quite as good an athlete, and hasn’t got quite the same hands, but in terms of great route running combined with speed and balance out of breaks, Ridley is top notch.

          2. Tiny flankers. Reminds me of Elton John’s Tiny Dancer…

            Run a post rout tiny flanker
            Count the headlights when your hit
            Get the ball into the endzone
            You had a busy day today

              1. Grant: That was a funny clip. I’ve never seen that show before. However, you do realize that Mozart is classical, right?

              2. Lack of appreciation (understanding) a genre does not make one a viable critic.
                Jazz aficionados may not follow or enjoy Rap and HipHop in some cases, but they understand that the two are just next waves in artistic evolution and appreciate them in that context without feeling the need to dismiss them. People who are confident in their views just say ‘not my cup of tea.’ People who prefer to lash out to make themselves feel more righteous or self important………….. narcissistic.
                Grab a musical instrument, and see if you can keep up with a Jazz cat.

              3. That’s how I feel when I hear any wordless genre of music.

                I guess Grant wouldn’t like a song Mr tambourine man would play for him.

              4. That’s how I feel when I hear any melody-less genre of music (rap). Like I said, rap is more poetry than music.

        2. Yep. I mentioned John Ross’ seperation many times. Turns out Ross was on Shanny “short” list. I got pushback because he was under 6′. I would mention that Ross’ size was similar to Antonio Brown, didn’t matter to some. Most of the people on here considered Ross an afterthought behind the taller Williams and Davis.

          Completely agree with your last sentence. Finding that rare tall guy that can get seperation would be awesome, but not necessary.


    “A Bill Belichick-friendly source agreed with my thinking that once a player makes Belichick start to contemplate life without him, Belichick starts to warm to being without that player. ‘He imagines you gone,’ [the source] said. The longer Gronkowski goes without saying he’s all in, the chances of him being traded increases, the source said.”

    Injury prone and could retire early. I wouldn’t give up any high picks for him. I’d do it for a 3rd round pick. It would probably make JG happy.

      1. That’s a terrible deal. Gronko does even want to play football. Once a guy starts thinking about retirement he is done. And Armstead is still young, you don’t give up in young talent. Stupid rumour.

        1. “Armstead is still young, you don’t give up in young talent.”

          What talent? Armstead doesn’t have a future on this team moron. He is bad against the run and has shown very little pass rushing. He’s also injury prone. He’s a backup on this team. Do we give a second contract to an underachieving, injury prone player that doesn’t fit the scheme or do we try to get something for him?

          I get the reservations about trading for Gronk (I included my concerns in my original post), but Armstead was a bad pick by the previous regime, he can and should be traded, whether it’s for Gronk or just a draft pick.

          1. I felt the same as you about Armstead but they let Carrradine go and kept Armstread, so they must think he still has potential. We haven’t yet see him when he is healthy for a full season. Don’t give up hope.

          2. What talent? 1st round talent at 24 years old.
            You don’t come to any conclusions at this stage of his career. His window and ceiling are still wide open.

            1. Chris

              It’s just something in #80’s make-up… he wakes up with morning wood for Arik Armstead and completely blows his cred with a stupid statement like that…Fortunately Lynch and Shannahan don’t lean on him for personnel advice…

            2. Yes, what talent? He’s played three seasons. That’s when a team needs to start determining whether or not to give a player a new contract. Armstead being a 1st round pick is the only reason he has trade value, it has nothing to do with his performance as a pro. Teams may think he will be better with a change of scenery and a different scheme. That trade value diminishes with every underwhelming performance.

              Armstead is a LEO for us in base. That’s about 30% of the team’s snaps. You have to be able to stop the run in base, Arik struggles with that.

              In sub packages he is a 3t. We already have Buckner and Thomas there. Armstead is a part time player. He has one role and he’s not good at it.


              “Fortunately Lynch and Shannahan don’t lean on him for personnel advice.”

              Last year I said Brooks would be gone. That didn’t go over well on here. I ended up being right. At least Brooks was a productive player. What has Armstead done?

              1. What has anyone done on a team that’s won barely 10 games in 3 years?
                You are playing personnel director and coach and scout. I’d say stay in your lane until training camp.

              2. “What has anyone done on a team that’s won barely 10 games in 3 years?”

                Buckner has played well.
                Staley has played well.
                Foster has played well, when healthy.
                Garcon, Goodwin, and Taylor have played well.
                Kittle has played well.
                Witherspoon has played well.
                Garoppolo has been great.

                “You are playing personnel director and coach and scout.”

                Well no $hit Sherlock. Why else would I or anyone else be here? You were playing personnel director when you said “And Armstead is still young, you don’t give up in young talent.”

                “I’d say stay in your lane until training camp.”

                I’d say go phuck yourself hypocrite.

              3. understand the sentiment…
                but so much more polite-sounding: “an invitation to auto-fornication” usually gets the point across…

              4. No we are on here to talk about the team. Not listen to some hot head proclaim who stays and who goes. Stay in your lane.

              5. “No we are on here to talk about the team.’

                So potential roster moves are off the table? Mock drafts are a no go? Being critical of coaches and players have no place in this forum?

                “Not listen to some hot head proclaim who stays and who goes.”

                You got a “hot head” response because you used the word stupid in response to my comment. This is the second time you have been a hypocrite. The first time was when you said “You are playing personnel director and coach and scout. I’d say stay in your lane until training camp.” while at the same time advocating that we should keep Armstead.

              6. Arik was moved out of his natural position to Leo because we didn’t have one and he was the second best pass rusher on the team.
                In terms of pass rush when healthy his first season his pressure rate was higher than Calais’s. So yes he has shown talent.

              7. I always wonder about the gray areas WRT the newer stats. Does it still count as a pressure if pressure comes from somewhere else, then say Armstead’s guy leaves him to help out, leaving Armstead free to get in the vicinity of the QB at the end of the play even if he was ineffective? Is It a positive play if a guy gets pressure on a Russell Wilson type, but whiffs on the tackle and the QB passes for a 1st down?

                Buckner has a high pressure rate and it shows on the field. I know I’m not qualified to give an opinion or to question anything, but why doesn’t Arik’s pressure/disruption show up on the field like Buckner’s?

              8. #80

                Brooks was an overpaid long-in-the-tooth LB who got more offside penalties than several TEAMS I believe that he was in his 8th year…Armstead has only been in the league 1 1/2 years of playing time…

            3. No matter what anyone thinks Armstead can become, so far he has been a colossal failure. If they can get something for him they should take it.

              1. Colossal failure? Overracct much? He’s now played in 2 very different schemes and he’s been injured.
                Coming to any conclusion on him this early in his career is silly.

              2. I’m not overreacting, just pointing out the truth. He’s 3 years into his career. It’s not early anymore. Being injured is part of the problem and when he’s played he hasn’t been good enough. He’s also redundant considering his best position is already filled by a better player. If they wait another year, they will get nothing for him.

              3. How about developing him? That’s what coaches and organization do when they draft kids out of college. They make them work. You don’t just trade a guy after a year into your system and not even a full year after he got hurt.
                I’d say you are clearly overreacting. He was a 1st round pick for a reason , you work with him. How many people already are saying Solomon Thomas is a bust? That’s overreacting.

              4. He’s had three years Chris. He can’t stay healthy and he isn’t that good when he does play. Part of the problem is they have to play him out of position because they’ve drafted the same type of player three years in a row. Buckner and Thomas are both better players at the 3, and if they can find a better pass rusher to play the Leo, he’s not going to get much playing time there either. They aren’t going to pick up his 5th year option, so trading him during this offseason is really the only option they have if they want to get something for him.

              5. Three years and he’s only 24 years old and you proclaim him done as a 49er? But now you want to trade him for what return? You don’t even know what you have in your investment. You guys act like you know where to play him and what position he can only play and what type of defense he is suited for. You have zero experience doing that.

              6. “You guys act like you know where to play him and what position he can only play and what type of defense he is suited for. You have zero experience doing that.”

                Good thing you have heaps of experience running a team and making these decisions to feel so confident arguing against trading him.

              7. I don’t proclaim to be an expert Chris. Just telling you my opinion based on what I’ve seen both in the pros and in College. He is a kid who was drafted based on his size and strength even though his College resume had a lot of holes. His best position is a 5T in a one gap 3-4 imo. He can also play the 3T in this defense but Buckner is a much better player and Thomas is capable of being the backup 3T and second DT in passing situations, so there really is no room for Armstead other than at Leo which he doesn’t fit. I don’t know if they have any intention of trading him or letting him play out his final year, but if they want to get anything for him they have to trade him before the season starts.

              8. Why would you trade him when you don’t even know his full potential yet? He’s 24 years old and barely 10 games into a new defense.

                Rocket, 80, save your opinion because it means nothing when trying to tell me whose better and fits where. I don’t see you guys ESPN or the NFL network as an NFL expert or former NFL coach.

              9. You don’t want to hear the opinion because it differs from your own Chris. You’ve decided to ignore what he’s actually done on the field in favor of his age and where he was drafted. That’s your prerogative but this place is for the sharing of ideas and opinions even if you don’t agree, so shooting them down because they aren’t coming from sources you deem as credible kind of defeats the purpose of being here.

              10. “Rocket, 80, save your opinion”

                OK, no opinion.

                Arik Armstead is a professional football player. He plays DE for the San Francisco 49ers. He played for Oregon in college. He is 6’7″ and 290 pounds. In 2015, he was the 17th pick in the 1st round of the draft. He has 50 combined tackles and 6 sacks in his career. Armstead attended Pleasant Grove High School, where he played football and basketball. His brother, Armond, played football at USC and in the CFL.

                There you go. No opinion. Pretty boring don’t you think? Save your we should keep Arik opinion. Scratch that. Defend Arik all you want. It’s makes for a better, more detailed conversation.

              11. No that’s not it. You just sound like an a hole who thinks his opinion matters. You have zero experience opinion wise to determine where this kid plays,how he plays and where he fits.

              12. “You have zero experience opinion wise to determine where this kid plays,how he plays and where he fits.”

                Yup, me and everyone else on this blog. So why do you even read this blog?

                “You just sound like an a hole”

                Yup, I tend to be an a-hole when people use inflammatory words like stupid.

          1. #80

            You change your mind too often…first you want to spend all the ‘cap’ money, now you’re complaining that AArmstead has a higher 5th year option because he has BEEN TOLD to play DE…not a word about Ward getting extended for his 5th year and who has been injured a hell of a lot more than Armstead.

            I must admit I almost choked to read that rocket ‘doesn’t claim to be an expert but only to offer his opinion …while denigrating any and all conflicting opinions to his …I certainly missed your condescending tone during your vacation ….

          2. Ore,

            I never wanted to spend all the cap money, some of it, yes.

            “now you’re complaining that AArmstead has a higher 5th year option because he has BEEN TOLD to play DE.”

            Yes, just because you have cap space doesn’t mean you should spend a lot of money on a role player that isn’t good at that one role.

            “not a word about Ward”

            Check the archives. I was against Ward getting the 5th year option. I think Colbert should start, but I understand if the team wants to go with Fitzpatrick in the draft.

            1. don’t forget: the DL room is still pretty well staffed even minus AA,
              with Ward and the state of the DB room — it’s all-hands-on-deck…

      2. Armstead has NFL talent but he’s wasted at the 49ers. The system isn’t suited to him, and his best position fits are taken by other first round picks. 49ers should trade him.

        1. Agree on Armstead. If there was a redux on the draft Arik would likely be picked in 2nd rd. Armstead is a Baalke holdover that was drafted with the notion that he would be a good fit in the 3/4 alignment.

          There are two strikes against AA.
          . Injuries have limited his play and growth.
          . He would need to learn a different scheme.

          Armstead will need to tore it up in TC to stay on roster. A #1 draft pick should have ability to adjust if need arises.
          That’s the language being used for players like D.James, Minkah, Edmunds, Nelson and Landry. These guys have the ability to play at least 2 different positions.
          Armstead did not blow away the opponent when he was asked to play one position – that alone may bring strike 3.

              1. Chris,
                Perhaps, or sometimes they find a player that fits their scheme. If AA stays onboard I hope he has a breakout year. That said, it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s not on the roster come September.

            1. why didn’t “Chris” just say so at the start of this debate:
              Zgonina’s posting here using the name “Chris”…
              slack time for film study in the DL room…

            2. AES,
              His role in this scheme should be the same role as Thomas. The problem I have is I believe he is the better player in that role as when he kicks inside he can actually provide a pass rush.

            3. Shoup

              Good post..Armstead should be playing Big end…his length and leverage gets him through bloocking schemes that Solomon can’t…Solomon (Thomas) is the proverbial 5th wheel, because Blair is bigger faster and better than him

              1. Nice guys who think they know the potential of 24 year old football players and what type of defense they can only play in. Nice guys can be arrogant di$ks too.

              2. “Nice guys who think they know the potential of 24 year old football players and what type of defense they can only play in. Nice guys can be arrogant di$ks too.”

                You’re doing the same thing. You think that 24 year old will be a good player that is worth extending. That’s your opinion and you don’t have any experience either. Why can’t you see the hypocrisy in your statements?

  16. Here is a thought ,

    OBJ , gronk , with JG

    Offensive line , rush end , cornerback , and no I don’t see them taking a safety .
    Not before addressing guard, or corner ,or DE .IMO

  17. Remember what they said the plan was , build the defense out of the draft , than pick guys that will have rolls to play , thinking they want that defense to grow together .
    Offensively players that already have a feel for shanny s system.

    1. Rolls… I prefer hot sourdough rolls, preferably consumed on a wharf somewhere along the central California coast.

      1. I love dismembering a large chunk of warm crusty bread from a loaf, and then dipping it in a hot steaming bowl of french onion soup.

  18. After listening to Shanalynch’s comments over the past month or two on the state of the pass-catcher corps, I’m inclined to believe that the Niners won’t be drafting a WR in the early to mid-rounds.

    I have a question in this regard. How important is a big-bodied red-zone receiver to Kyle’s system? In other words, what is approximate the fraction of TD passes thrown by Kyle’s QBs that are corner fade routes or high to the back of the end zone?

  19. Here’s a new and fair scouting report on Edmunds.

    Vulnerable to play action
    Can be overaggressive

    “Edmunds can be overaggressive at times, and that also shows itself in his vulnerablity to play action. Some of that was due to Bud Foster’s scheme, which wants the defense to play fast and attack”

    I mentioned VT’s scheme last week. He run blitzes a lot. Coach Foster wanted him to go from point A to point B. If the HB ran to point C, Edmunds would look bad even though he did exactly what he was asked to do.

    1. 80,
      Nice report on Tre Edmunds.
      It’s interesting that one of his strengths is his instinctive play. That has been a sticking point for some here.

      There are two players that I have been touting for the 49ers since late January – Q. Nelson and or Treamine Edmunds.
      I believe both these players will be off the board at 9, but if either one of them drop to us somehow, I would immediately jump on one.

      1. Edmunds is my choice if we don’t trade down. I would add Chubb as a guy I would jump on, with Nelson of course. I couldn’t pass on Nelson regardless who was still on the board. Dude is a stud.

  20. As predicted the views on Landry are changing in the media world. I’ve seen a few mocks that now have him in the top ten or just outside of it, and this from an NFL reporter on how the scouts see things:

    Ben Allbright: Last few days of talking to people and hearing Minkah Fitzpatrick is going too early in these media mock drafts, and Harold Landry is going too late

    1. That’s what I’ve believed too, and I hope Chubb is forced down from all the quarterbacks so Landry is sure to be there for us when we go on the clock….

    2. Don’t know how much stock should be put in what Allbright says, but this is certainly what I expect to happen re: Landry.

  21. If you place any value on Wonderlic scores (from PFT):

    “Wyoming QB Josh Allen scored a 37 Wonderlic at the NFL Combine.

    This is notable with Allen’s JuCo background. Allen’s completion-percentage (56.2%) at Wyoming also raised concerns over his football IQ. After winning the on-field Combine, this is another positive for Allen as he competes to go first overall. Josh Rosen (29) Sam Darnold (28), Baker Mayfield (25) and Lamar Jackson (13) all had lower Wonderlic scores than Allen.”

      1. “Smarts” can be in a narrow range, or a number of narrow ranges in each of us. Few are super strong across the board, and of course I’ve met a few who operate at levels I never did. The smartest guy I ever met, a college prof, once quipped that he’s met some smart guys and was humbled. That was more than humbling for me.
        Football smarts is a whole ‘nother thing, as Colin and guys like Joey Harrington taught us. Frank Gore is not well spoken; street vernacular; but he’s a Football Savant.

    1. The Wonderlic is useless imo. I really think it’s a test they use to make sure a player isn’t a complete idiot and not much more.

          1. Going down to LA and win two 1-0 games and Panik hits a homer in each game – one off Kershaw and the other against Jansen – yuppers.

            1. UC,
              Interesting game in that it had a da’javu script from the previous day.
              The biggest story is that the Giants pitching has shut down the dodgers hitting.
              But the dodgers has shut down our hitters as well, except for J. Panik.

  22. We should ask the Press Democrat–through Grant of course–to hire Cambridge Analytica to develop a database of this blog’s content, along with sophisticated query tools. Cull through the blog–topic-by-topic, response-by-response–beginning in 2013. Capture all the emotions, bold predictions, unassailable truths, character assassinations, selective amnesia, etc. Develop a profile of each contributor–say, those who’ve posted more than 10 times from 2013-2018–Grant is in this too. Display all this in a multi-dimensional, interactive info-graphic (data driven) which would allow us (and those in the psychiatric community) to develop a much better sense of who we are as a community.

    Among other things we could learn who’s really clairvoyant, and who comes up a bit short.

      1. Oracle and others could throw their hats in the ring. I could help Grant frame a request for bid. Press Democrat would retain all rights concerning deliverables.

        One of the analysis dimensions would be hyperbole–wonder how that could be measured? Degrees of hyperbole?

            1. The PD used to have an option that allowed you to recover and review all your entries dating back a few years.
              Yup, this was the wild-west a few years ago (agree with UC 5:48 entry).

    1. now, you know…since Grant is tight with Vlad the troll farmer….
      an exercise like this would just show Grant to be the most prescient and accurate football writer ever in the history of the world…
      like, really… the world…best ever!
      like the world has never seen before!
      who knew?
      well, I’m sure Grant knew…

        1. not so much…too high a blather and hyperbole weighting in the metric algorithms…
          I’d be right in on the avg., along with guys like “Chris”

    2. A grad student in psychology may do it for free with a site scraping tool and some text parsing tools. It would be an interesting study for sure :)

  23. I don’t see OBJ fitting in with this team; instead if there is any truth to the 49ers’ “interest” it probably has more to do with driving the price up on the Rams.

    Great QBs can make receivers great. Manning and several Colts receivers over the years; Brady and several receivers, the list goes on. This FO does not view JG as someone who needs the established Pro Bowler. It sees JG as someone who creates Pro Bowlers. So no need to lose a high draft pick over this.

    Doesn’t mean that Taylor or Goodwin are the only molds for this. I think they have potential (esp. after watching Goodwin in the last five weeks). KS most likely has his eye on a WR in the middle rounds, like Ateman. Meanwhile, drive the price up on OBJ…

      1. Bad call on Ateman. I have Anthony Miller on speed dial at pick #70, but on my phone contacts I have, Michael Gallup, ESB, Cedric Wilson. Antonio Callaway is a player I’d like to interview and gage what kind of risk versus reward with pick #74, given he has 1st round talent….

        1. Raz

          Of all of your ‘speed-dial’ candidates, only Cedrick Wilson is over 6′ tall, whereas Ateman, St. Brown, Tate, Chark, Lazard, and Sutton would present a ‘red zone’ threat….we have several shorter WR’s.

            1. Raz

              Are you saying that none of the receivers I mentioned can create separation…? If so, you’ve got a scoop…higher reach, longer stride, bigger bodies create separation

              1. Yea, none of these big receivers’ strength is separation imho. I really like Miller after Ridley, and I think teams might be sleeping on him. That’s why I’ve got him in my final mock draft at pick #65 that we acquired from Buffalo, although I have yet to post it….

  24. Question for hypothetical purposes:

    If the 49ers remained at #9 and all 5 of these players were available, who would YOU draft (out of these 5 players only)?

    1. Minkah Fitzpatrick
    2. Tremaine Edmunds
    3. Derwin James
    4. Roquan Smith
    5. Marcus Davenport

    I would select Derwin James

      1. MWD –
        You broke the rules, you had to select from those 5 only!
        Landry was in a bar fight the night before the draft and was arrested (hypothetically) :)

        1. I’d still trade down. I am not sold on Fitzpatrick. Drafting Edmunds or Smith makes little sense, and I would not touch Davenport until the third round. Finally, I just don’t see any way that James falls that far; the closest he may get is to the seventh pick, and I am pretty the Bucs will trip several times because of how quickly they want to get their selection up to Goodell.

    1. C15,
      I would take 1.a Edmunds (versatility), but 1.b D. James is a close second (versatile as well).

      I would be good with any of these players with the exception of Davenport.

    2. Tremaine Edmunds because he fills an immediate need as a pass rusher and can play inside while Foster screws his head on right.

      1. James plays a blitzing pseudo DE, and if you haven’t seen him knock OL on their butts, you should check it out because it’s pretty impressive, SS, FS, ILB, CB and NB….

        1. Razor,
          Derwin would make a great 49er, but so would Edmunds.
          Both of these players bring high end versatility to the defense.

          At this point I happen to agree with Prime that Edmunds fits a greater need.
          DJ may prove to be a better player then Edmunds, but Edmunds can fill the void left by Foster’s foolishness.

          1. Doesn’t bother me none but to me, Edmunds is more of a projection. Besides that, you can find ILB’s later on, especially in a draft where the position is extensive. Players like Genard Avery, Christian Sam, Oren Burks, Jack Cichy. I could go on, but since your mind is made up, I’ll stop right there….

            1. Razor,
              Using your philosophy the same could be said for James. We could find a Safety later in the draft as well.
              One of the players that James is being compared to is Kam Chancellor who was drafted in the 5th round.

              1. You don’t find players like James later in the draft, AES. Another player he’s compared to is Eric Berry. My description for him is he’s Earl Thomas’ and Kam Chancellor’s love child. We will need to agree to disagree on this one, AES. The argument can be made that ST. James is the most athletically gifted player in this draft. He’s much more valuable than a SAM LB that you’re hoping can develop into a pass rushing threat off the edge….

              2. “He’s much more valuable than a SAM LB…”

                Not that Edmunds couldn’t play SAM or that he wouldn’t get reps there, but he’s a MIKE/WILL first. We would draft him to play ILB primarily, while hoping he could eventually become an edge rusher in sub packages.

                Like Roquan Smith, I doubt Edmunds would be in the conversation if it wasn’t for Foster’s troubles. Which brings us to a key date. Foster could be “cleared” ala Brock on April 12th. If cleared, with no long term suspension and the lifetime ban for another DV incident in play, I will be on team Landry 100%.

              3. As of right now, we have our starting Mike and Will, so Edmunds would need to play Sam in order to get on the field….

              4. “As of right now, we have our starting Mike and Will, so Edmunds would need to play Sam in order to get on the field”

                As of now we have our starting SS, FS, LCB, RCB, NCB and Will. James would need to play Edge to get on the field.

                Of course this isn’t true. James would be an upgrade over Tartt and would start right away. Edmunds would be an upgrade over M Smith and would start right away.

              5. Edmunds is an upgrade over Smith? Ha! Not so sure about that, #80. I don’t see the 49ers drafting Safety because of Ward’s 8.5 million. I wouldn’t take Smith off the field over Harold. I’d rather have Will-Smith, Mike-Foster, and the weak link Harold released with Edmunds as Sam. In my mind, that is a stronger lineup than Edmunds/Foster/Harold….

              6. Edmunds at SAM would be a waste, like playing James at LB. It’s been said many times that we’re not taking a SAM at #9.

                M Smith is replacable. Judging by his contract, the team feels the same way. Harold can set the edge and is healthy. If we’re comparing M Smith and Harold, neither are special. Neither are someone you have to get on the field.

              7. We’re not drafting Edmunds unless Foster is in serious trouble, and so it’s basically a mute topic. On top of that, I think they’d take Smith over him anyways. Much better player as of right now, and he’d have a better shot of usurping Smith than Edmunds….

              8. “We’re not drafting Edmunds unless Foster is in serious trouble”


                I think you’re underrating Edmunds, but we can’t agree on everything. I’m not going to dis R Smith. I like him, reminds me of Foster as a player.

              9. The thing is, Edmunds is being touted for his ability to fill multiple roles at LB. The problem is that he needs all the reps he can get at one position so he can hone his instincts….

              10. “The problem is that he needs all the reps he can get at one position so he can hone his instincts.”

                That’s why he would stay at ILB (for the most part) when Foster returns. I think he would be an impact player at ILB, with a higher ceiling than R Smith and Foster. The rest (potentially Edge and SAM) is gravy.

                I also think Edmunds has a high floor. I think this is the sticking point for some. He’s a freak athlete so he has to be boom or bust. We can’t take another Taylor Mays, especially at #9. I don’t see a bust, barring injuries.

              11. “Edmunds is an upgrade over Smith? Ha! Not so sure about that, #80.”
                Hug? You can’t be serious with this statement. If Edmunds is mearly an average, starting linebacker, he would be an upgrade over Smith. Smith was a backup before playing for Oakland and was not very good as a starter there. Brock is our second best line backer.
                Simply put, if Foster can’t play, our linebackers are garbage.

              12. Razor,
                It was a bad signing if you ask me. They hoped a change of scenery and scheme would improve his play. But no matter the reasoning, they over paid for his services.

              13. Oh, ok but so far Lynch’s decisions have been pretty solid unless you hold Foster against him.

              14. Lynch’s signings have been ok but not exceptional either. Smith and Juice were both bad signings imho. Garcon and Goodwin both proved to be good signings as was the Jimmy G deal.
                But the Jimmy deal would have been made by anyone lacking a QB… so it’s hard to give him a ton of credit for that.
                Draft wise they did ok as well but also missed on some better players. I’d give him a B- grade. He did better 78 to 82 percent of the teams but the sample size is still small.

              15. Shoup:

                Disagree on Juice. Once Jimmy started, he became, imho, the offensive weapon he was signed to be. I don’t have statistics, but I have been rewatching Jimmy G’s games and Juice figures quite prominently in them. It seems like it took a starter-level QB to get Juice into the game. That would seem to make sense to me especially if Juice is generally not the first or even second read. Jimmy moves thru his progressions rapidly and can readily get to the third read. Beathard was a rookie, so no more needs to be said about that.

              16. Cubus,
                The signing of juice wasn’t bad, the contract was. His salary is more than the combined salary of the second, third and eighth highest paid fullback in the league. So to justify his salary he needs to at minimum twice as good as the next best player at his position.
                This part of the reason why it sounded like Shanahan was willing to bow out in the bidding war. While Lynch said lets think of him as an OW and continued to bid higher.

          2. AES – “Foster’s foolishness” is the reason why I select Edmunds over James. Got to be strong in the middle.

            1. Our biggest weakness on defense seems to me to be edge pressure, followed by pass coverage. Last year it was run defense. Foster’s foolishness needs to be mitigated, and that can be done fortunately for us, in this draft later on….

    3. In order, I would take Fitzpatrick, James, Smith, Edmunds, Davenport.

      For mine Fitzpatrick is the most instinctive DB in the draft. Add good athleticism and I expect he will be a high impact DB.

      James is very good too, but for the 49ers D I think he is a SS only and Tartt is good in that role already.

    4. Crab 15

      I was sleeping through your question…I would take Davenport…but I am torn twixt and tween with both Fitzpatrick andJames whom I think are interchangeable

      1. I’m curious on what immediate multiple needs Edmunds fills if you don’t mind me asking, other than an expensive deductible on your Foster insurance….

        1. I am curious about that myself. While he has the length, I do not see Edmunds as an edge rusher. I also do not see the team needing a WILL or MLB (despite Foster being on razor thin ice). The only position I see Edmunds being able to feel a need at is SAM, and I do see the team addressing the position that early.

          1. I see the team needing a Will and a Sam Backer even if Foster can man the Mike position. We have backups starting at both positions.
            Malcolm Smith was always a backup until Oakland where he was terrible then he suffered a major injury… And you believe he can be relied on?
            Or do you believe that Brock Coyle, Mr special teams is the gut that can the will?
            That takes us to the Sam backer… do you really think Eli is even average? I’m not a big PFF guy, buy they rated his season as poor, not below average but poor, and that marries with what I saw last season.
            To put it in perspective… we basically had the line backer equivalent of Beadles starting at Sam and Tomlinson starting at Will.
            I am not arguing for Edmunds but if we are really saying our linebackers are ok, we have our head stuck in the sand.

        2. Razor,
          Sure, thanks for asking.
          Edmunds is already rated the #1 LB by most analysist. This alone tells me that he much more then a project.

          So what are the multiple needs Edmunds can fill?
          . can play MIKE, SAM, LEO.
          . Is a sideline to sideline tackling machine.
          . can cover TE, RB and Russell Wilson when he runs out of the pocket.
          . can rush the QB from any package he’s playing.
          . Oh, did I mention that he fills an immediate need for Foster’ foolishness (lol).
          Doesn’t hurt that at 20 years old, he will only get better and can become a perennial all-pro.

          1. Edmunds was horrible early in the season, but he got much better as it wore on. I’ll give you that, but he can’t cover anywhere close to as well as James can cover those TE’s, RB’s and Russell Wilson. Do you have any production to back up your claim that Edmunds can be a double digit sack artist off the edge? I ask because Landry produced 16.5 in 2016 doing just that. We already have two SAM’s in Harold and Attauchu, and we just drafted Foster to play MIKE, plus we just signed “State Farm” Coyle as our insurance policy(PLPD) on his dumbass….

            1. Razor,
              Edmunds does not have the sack numbers to match Landry. That’s a given.
              But Edmunds is not an Edge either. You asked what multiple needs Edmunds could fill and I gave you my personal assessment. His strength at the moment may only involve one position, but he’s the type of player that can learn and excel in different packages.

              Like Solomon Thomas, I see Lynch and Shanahan picking a player like Edmunds who could become a superior talent in year two and only get better thereafter.

              1. If they take a linebacker at #9 it means the writing is on the wall for Foster.

                Btw, Leo is not a position I would expect Edmunds to fill in the foreseeable future, and that was the reason for my question. Best bet is to let him learn to play SAM this year….

                Addendum, if Edmunds is the pick I will fully support it and won’t poo poo it, and I certainly won’t claim he’s a bust during and after his first year.

              2. Razor,
                If Edmunds plays SAM, Harold warms the bench or more likely gets traded.

                Also, if we are only going by numbers of sacks than Joey Ostman from Central Michigan is the top dog.
                But I believe that like Solomon Thomas, we are looking for high dividends in year two and beyond with someone like Edmunds.

      1. Scooter,
        Landry would be a good choice.
        Seems like the list of preferred players comes down to Landry, James, Minkah, Fitz and Edmunds.
        Anyone one of these players could provide immediate help on defense. I also believe that drafting Edmunds at 9 is too high, but Lynch and Shanny showed that they are not tied to the popular draft consensus as they proved last year by trading up for Thomas. Also, I see Solomon improving on his technique this year. A stronger and improved Thomas might be enough to provide the QB pressure we need.

        My preference is Edmunds (sure its obvious by now) because he is a top 15 player with tremendous upside and versatility. My dark-horse pick is Ro. Smith because is the best pure LB in this draft.
        That said, I’m good with any of these talented players.

        1. There will be plenty of good players available at #9, and the 49ers are still in a position where pretty much any of these players would provide an upgrade. So from that angle they can’t go too far wrong.

          But there are certain positions and players that I think will be far more valuable to the 49ers. Fitzpatrick and Landry (or Chubb if available) for mine make the most sense. Then James or OL.

          Tbh though, what probably makes the most sense is a trade back a few spots and pick up an extra 3rd (or more), if the option presents itself.

    1. Landry. Edge rusher is the most important position on defense.

      Edmunds is good but very raw. And while our linebackers without Foster are basically d grade players our edge rush is non existent.

    1. George,
      Thanks for the link.
      Interesting that PFF rates Landry higher than Chubb.
      According to PFF, QB pressures seem to carry more value. But personally speaking, the sack is big because it fires up the entire defense and totally rattles the QB’s rhythm.

      1. “But personally speaking, the sack is big because it fires up the entire defense and totally rattles the QB’s rhythm.”

        Agreed. Pressure is good, getting the QB on the ground is better. Good QBs like Brady are still good under pressure. Thankfully we have Garoppolo, who loves to be blitzed, it just makes his job easier (eat your heart out Dick Lebeau).

        1. Chubb wasn’t even in the conversation last year, whereas Key and Landry were the top two ranked edge rushers coming into the season, and ranked top 5 along with Derwin James….

  25. Wonderlic:

    Josh Allen: 37
    Josh Rosen: 29
    Sam Darnold: 28
    Baker Mayfield: 25
    Lamar Jackson: 13/Deshaun Watson: 20
    Arm Velocity: Jackson/49 – Watson/49

    Does Jackson slide out of the 1st round? I’m willing to bet there’s a team smart enough to craft an offense around his talent, because of what the Texans were able to do with Watson last year….

    1. 55 mph is the NFL threshold, but what I was surprised to discover is that for every 2 mph ball velocity translates to 3 ft travelled on 20 yd throws in same time frame. So it seems to be based on good science….

    2. I would be surprised if he did. My guess is a team like the Cardinals could draft him, and there plenty of potential landing spots for him outside of the top ten.

      1. Which quarterback do you believe will be the last one taken in the top 10?

        As a 49er fan, I’m hoping it’s Allen because he may hold the same allure as Mahomes for a team looking to move up….

  26. Kyle Shanahan on Ward. Sees him as very versatile and a good player that he doesn’t want to leave the building. I agree that Ward is a good player and my only concern is his injury history. From what KS said, I wonder if the plan is to have Ward not start games at a particular spot but to be a “reliever” at multiple spots during a game. I wonder if this might statistically lower his chances of getting injured (because he won’t be playing as many minutes and if he plays less at the safety position that too might lead, statistically, to fewer injuries).

    1. Ward can play 5 positions and is starter-quality at more than one of these positions. That’s how he earns his $8M — saving money that the team would have to spend on multiple back-ups.

      1. Yep. See my post below. Do you think Ward could be “placed” in the secondary in such a way that the opposing QB wouldn’t be sure which position he is playing – hopefully leading to confusion?

        1. Interesting thought. I can see Saleh using such creative formations — he’s chess master and should enjoy trapping the opposing QB.

  27. WR’s , Rb’s , G’s can be found in the mid rounds.

    Agreed that the Niner’s will select defense on day one. Don’t overlook trade down opportunities.

    Top four prospects among mock drafts for 49ers’ first-round pick
    4 hours ago • 1 comment
    By David Bonilla

    4) S Derwin James, Florida State

    Height: 6-3
    Weight: 215 lbs.
    Combine Results
    40-time: 4.47 seconds
    Vertical: 40 inches

    3) DB Minkah Fitzpatrick, Alabama

    Height: 6-1
    Weight: 201 lbs.

    Combine Results
    40-time: 4.46 seconds
    Vertical: 33 inches

    2) CB Denzel Ward, Ohio State

    Height: 5-10
    Weight: 191 lbs.

    Combine Results
    40-time: 4.32 seconds
    Vertical: 39 inches

    1) LB Tremaine Edmunds, Virginia Tech

    Height: 6-5
    Weight: 253 lbs.

    Combine Results
    40-time: 4.54 seconds

    1. TomD

      I believe that of your top four, I would not be unhappy with Minkah, James, or Edmunds, Perhaps it goes all the way back to Woody Hayes, but I don’t like any OHIO STATE players…Sorry Denzel Ward…

          1. Brotha,
            I just can’t get the image of Woody Hayes cold-cocking a Clemson player on the sidelines out of my head when I think of Ohio St.
            Alex Boone’ best move was protecting Jim Harbaugh after a close win over the Lions in Detroit (not that Schwartz had a chance against JH, lol). Then he left here throwing out dirty laundry about the team. It doesn’t help my blind prejudice that Mike Rumph turned out to be a total bust. And knowing what I know now about Hyde, I would have kept the old war-horse Frank Gore.
            Blood pressure climbing – going off on that subject, lol.

            1. AES
              Woody Hayes is ancient history. I oughtta know, I watched that melt down live. Rumpf played at U Miami.
              Rate the player prospect, not the coach or team imo.
              Jerry Rice at Mississippi Valley State. Larry Allen at Sonoma State, my alma mater. TO at Middle Tennessee, etc.
              PS- Otis Sistrunk, University Of Mars. (Actually he was no college, but Univ Mars was the running joke.)

              1. Brotha,
                Thanks for the correction on Rumph.
                Wasn’t it Howard Cossell or Don Meredith that gave Sistrunk the University of Mars moniker? I was actually watching that Monday night game on tv when I heard one of those guys use that term.
                There was a camera shot of Sistrunk sitting on the sideline with steam coming off his head that I believe precipitated it.

              2. Guys – Otis
                Can’t remember the year, but I was standing in line at the Santa Rosa Post Office fiddling with my paperwork. A deep growl behind me said “You’re next.”
                I turn around and look into Otis’ belly in a black T. I pan up to The Martian.
                I scurry to the open window, hahahahahahahaha
                (That was in the days when The Rhayduhs summer trained at The Tropicana Hotel in Santa Rosa. Zillions of stories from those days.

    1. Per my post above, I’m beginning to wonder if the plan is to take James if he is available. In preparation for that, Ward will primarily be pencilled in at CB. If they do that, then they don’t need to get a veteran CB. Further, as I stated above, Ward might be the jack of all trades in the secondary. Relieving players at many positions during the game which might reduce his minutes in total and at safety (statistically lessening the chance for injury).

      Also, I wonder if it affects an offense if you have a guy in the secondary and the offense doesn’t really know what position he is playing. Will that confuse QBs, or will the smarter QBs simply figure it out via a process of elimination by looking at what roles the other DBs are playing?


    “Yale linebacker Matt Oplinger was not rated by scouts entering the season, but after a campaign which included 42 tackles and 11.5 sacks, he’s now on their radar.”

    “Seven teams including the San Francisco 49ers, New York Giants, Green Bay Packers, Indianapolis Colts, Atlanta Falcons, Chicago Bears and Detroit Lions made their way to New Haven, Connecticut, this morning, and Oplinger did not disappoint.”

    1. 80,
      Nice story. I’m a sucker for the underdog. You never know, Oplinger might turn out to be this year’s Matt Breida if he goes undrafted.


    “Everyone talks about running back and stuff — they need a new position to name people,” Shanahan said. “Because he plays running back and receiver and tight end — he does all that. You use him the same way you use all these positions. He’s a very good running back. But he also brings a lot of other stuff to the table.”

    “they need a new position to name people,”

    In the future, a Shanny disciple will be a first time HC. Fans and media alike will be saying the new HC needs to find a “jetback”.

      1. Yep. Landry could be the exception due to position importance and his ability. But if it were a choice between Landry and Chubb, I think we would take Chubb who can play LEO and Big End. You could easily flip Chubb and Thomas in Over/Under base packages.

        Some have Roquan pegged as a WILL only LB. If the Niners feel the same way, they won’t touch him.

      2. I think you guys may be overthinking things a bit. Shanahan loves players that fit his system. On offense, his system loves to create mismatches by using the RB as a movable piece. So yes, he likes the versatility McKinnon and Juice bring.

        On D, there is an important role for a guy like Michael Bennett that can play DE in base as a big run stopper but can slide inside on passing downs and be a good pass rusher. That is why they drafted Thomas. With Ward, they like his versatility because it provides cover at a lot of spots in the secondary. Very important to have guys that can do that. But you don’t want a DL full of Bennett’s or a defensive backfield full of Ward’s. You need guys that excel at the defined roles in the D. Same with offense. Aside from the backs and maybe a TE, those guys have pretty defined roles.

        They will (or won’t) like Landry based on how well he fits a role on D. In this case, it would you imagine be how well they like him as the Leo. Same with Chubb – does he or doesn’t he fit the scheme and what they need him to do? And same with every other player. In later rounds, some versatility will be important as you have a limited number of guys suited up so some guys need to back up at more than one spot. Having position versatility makes a path to the roster easier for lower drafted players. It is no different to any other team.

        1. “how well they like him as the Leo. Same with Chubb”

          They probably like both as the LEO. Versatility could be the tie breaker.

          1. May do. You know my opinion regarding which guy they will prefer for the Leo, but it may just be they prefer Chubb all round. Regardless though, if what they are looking for is a Leo pass rusher then the versatility to also play big end will be a minor consideration, if a consideration at all.

            1. Saleh stresses stopping the run. He likes to move his lineman around. This stuff matters too. They might feel that Chubb is the better pass rusher. He’s more polished and should be able to contribute on day 1.

              1. Saleh stresses stopping the run, and that’s one of the reasons King Solomon was the pick, followed by Riggs….

              2. All of the Carroll disciples stress stopping the run. Every other Carroll disciple has a Leo that is primarily a pass rusher.

              3. “King Solomon was the pick, followed by Riggs….”

                Followed by Chubb? Landry and Edmunds are moving up boards. Chubb could be available.

                My preferences assuming everyone is available.
                1. Nelson
                2. Chubb
                3. Edmunds
                4. Landry

                Fitzpatrick, Smith, or James would be good value at #9. They all look like quality starters.

              4. I remember the reference. This is what I meant to convey.

                King Solomon followed by Riggs, followed by Chubb. continuing the stop the run philosophy. Plus Chubb will be a good Edge rusher IMO.

        2. Scooter,
          I got you.
          Speaking of Bennett, Chubb seems like a carbon copy. Chubb can cover the Edge along the LOS as well as pressure the QB.
          But Chubb will likely be gone when we pick at 9. The question is, can Landry cover the Edge area? We know he can provide QB pressure but Edge coverage (against the run game and passes to the flat on his side) is a completely different animal.

          Now with Landry (who I like as well), you are getting more of a pass-rush specialist. If that is all we want from a player then he is our man. I just don’t if he has the versatility to cover a RB or TE coming in his area. Edmunds has shown that he can cover the RB or TE on pass coverage and sift and navigate through traffic at the LOS to make the tackle or pressure the QB.

          Landry is great at what he does best – pressure the QB. Don’t know if he is only in on passing downs?
          Edmunds can cover more landscape then Landry. He can play the MIKE, LEO and possibly WILL. He may not be able to crush those positions in his 1st year, but the possibilities are scary when his strengths are better defined in year 2.
          It’s a pick your poison proposition between Landry and Edmunds. But Lynch and Shanny may go an entirely different way come draftmas.

          1. Well, I disagree on a few things in this post. First, the narrative that Landry can’t play the run is well overblown. He is fine against the run. Not dominant, but fine. Second, the Leo is not a coverage player. He is effectively a DE. The number of times he drops into coverage will be very few. So if they are after a Leo, it won’t matter how good they are in coverage.

            As for Edmunds, I simply do not get the talk that he can play Leo. He is not an edge rusher. He is an off ball LB. Maybe one day he develops into a semi decent edge rusher, but I doubt it. I think he will always be a LB. If the 49ers are after a LB round 1 then sure, maybe Edmunds is their guy, but if they are after a Leo then forget Edmunds in that space.

            As for Chubb, I also disagree. He is not a carbon copy of Bennett. He is a DE. I doubt he gets moved inside on passing downs. He does his work from the edge. I think he will be at his best as a strong side DE in a traditional 4-3. In this D he could play big end or Leo, but would likely be Leo.

              1. Razoreater says:
                April 1, 2018 at 12:15 pm
                “When you get too high on athleticism, you end up like Baalke.”

                Or, last years version of Solomon Thomas.
                I referenced last years version because i’m sure that Lynch and Shanahan saw something special in ST that allowed them a window to give Thomas a few years to fully develop his football skills.
                Last time I looked, football (or any sport) has to have great athletes. And add to that great coaching. If football was based solely on great athletes why even have coaches? Skills need to be honed for the player to be effective.

                Now in the case of Edmunds, James, Fitz, Ro. Smith Landry, Nelson and Barkley their athleticism combined with great football instincts make them special talents.
                Edmunds is slightly behind in the “instincts” department (i’ll admit) but like Solo Thomas, Lynch and Selah could afford a little time for him to develop and mature if they feel Edmunds is worth the wait – Edmunds certainly has the age to be pliable and learn to become a perennial all-pro for years to come.
                We can beat the drum on this all day but we will have a better lens on Edmunds a couple of years from now when he has two seasons under his belt.

              2. And so the same can be said about Arik Armstead. A full season in this new defense and the addition of some solid coaching can make him a valuable player. Even if it’s situational, I’m pretty sure he can help out the defense.
                It takes time for young players to play instinctually.

              3. It seems anytime there’s an opportunity to take a dig at Solomon Thomas, someone goes and gets a shovel. He played very well for us, but unfortunately people had unrealistic expectations just because of where he was selected. That’s ok. I’m very happy that Lynch and myself saw eye to eye on making him our pick and look forward to him burying the sceptics….

            1. Scooter,
              You may have missed my earlier entries when I wrote that Edmunds has the ability to learn these positions if this is something that Shanny is looking at based on Edmunds versatility.

              I’ll say again that Edmunds value may not be defined until his second season and beyond.
              Key for Tremaine is versatility and the physical ability to conform to various packages.

              1. Size, speed and strength.
                It may not be a pure EDGE but can take on a variation of EDGE. The NFL is a passing league which could benefit Edmunds more in the pros then college.
                We’ll just have to wait to see how Lynch and Shanny feel about Edmunds at the end of April.

              2. If size, speed and strength were all it took to be a great edge rusher they would be a dime a dozen.

                This is something that really gets me. Projecting someone to do something based on not much other than physical attributes. Edmunds has very little experience playing edge. His ability getting after the QB in college was almost entirely based on being used as a blitzing LB. Which is very different to rushing off the edge. To me, this is another one of those areas of the Edmunds hype that is entirely and unwarrentedly overblown, much as his young age is. Yes, he is a great athlete and has physical traits that would seem suited to an edge rusher. Yes, he showed some skills as a blitzing LB. Neither of these things actually make him a good edge prospect.

              3. “If size, speed and strength were all it took to be a great edge rusher they would be a dime a dozen.” ~Scooter

                Do you see Edmunds as a dime a dozen type player?
                Those attributes combined with his football acumen is a reason why he is considered a top 10 player.

                I view a player like James with the same lens. I don’t see someone with his kind of physical attributes just playing one position in the pros.
                Same with Fitz.

                Their tremendous athletic abilities make them able to potentially play interchangeable positions. I certainly don’t believe that James and Fitz are a dime a dozen types based on their size and speed.

              4. Edmunds is considered a top player in this draft due largely to his rare athleticism combined with the wow plays that athleticism allowed him to make. He made those plays as an off ball LB, and that is the position that has him being talked about as a possible top 10 pick. Not as an edge rusher. Because that’s not what he is.

                I know I am not going to dissuade the pro Edmunds crowd of this, but being an amazing athlete with size that people would often equate with edge players does not actually make him a good edge prospect. He is an off ball LB prospect that can be used as a blitzer.

              5. Scooter, it’s not only Edmunds fanboys that are projecting him an edge rusher, they’re doing it for LVE. What they fail to realize is that while you’re getting him acclimated to such a role, his off ball instincts as a linebacker are not being developed, which both players are sorely in need of….

              6. You guys are getting hung up on my EDGE comment even after I tempered it by saying Edmunds could play a variation of EDGE and possibly other LB’ing positions.

                Scooter you noted the Edmunds has rare athleticism and makes wow plays that his athleticism allows him to make. Well, yeah! The kid can flat out play the game of football.
                I would have to believe that the recent combine had some participants that put up great combine numbers, but that does not guarantee stardom at the next level.
                This is not Taylor Mayes 2.0 here.
                You may down play his athleticism while I believe his rare athleticism is what makes him a special player that can learn to play interchangeable positions.

                Nah, I’m not a fanboy of Edmunds. I’d be happy with any of the players being touted as possible 1st picks. Sure, my personal preference is TE, but any of the other noted players would make great additions as well.
                Draftmas can’t come soon enough fellas!

              7. AES, go back and read through this thread again. I simply stated that his “versatility” and athleticism does not make him a good edge prospect, following your comment he could play Leo. You have since defended this take in every post until now, where apparently we are making too much of your comment? Why defend it so much if you didn’t mean it?

                As for him being a great athlete and that making him a great prospect, I will rely far more on the film. On film he has some positive traits, almost all of which are driven from his athleticism. His football instincts are underdeveloped and subpar. Athleticism is not enough in the NFL. Everyone getting excited about him is doing it entirely based on what he could be if he learns how to play football. That’s such a huge “if” that I simply cannot believe he is being considered a top 10 prospect. He’s a developmental prospect. I really don’t want the 49ers taking such a risk.

                As for comparing him to Thomas, I really don’t get that either. Thomas is also a great athlete, yes, but he showed football understanding as well. He needs to work on technique, but his football acumen is fine.

                Also, at LB, football smarts and instinct are more important than at DL. A LB has to be able to read the play at a high level. I get very nervous about taking LBs that don’t demonstrate those high end smarts and instincts on a regular basis.

              8. Edmunds play was atrocious in the beginning of the year, and as it progressed, so did he. Should have waited until next year to come out, because of LVE and Smith. I feel like both of those players make Edmunds stock bearish….

  30. If someone told me that three seasons after Harbaugh took over the Michigan program, the Wolverines would be in the semi-finals of the championship tournament, I would not have guessed it would be in basketball…..

  31. Word on the street is Landry is being talked up as a top 10 pick. Chubb, Landry, precipitous drop off. Fangio keepa your hands off of him! He’s ours!

  32. Word on the street is Minkah is slipping outside the top 10. I’m fairly certain the 49ers will not draft him at 9.

    1. And wouldn’t you know it, DraftWire now has Minkah going 4 to the Browns,

      BTW, wasn’t Troy P. projected as a S/CB coming out? Cant remember if it was him or Woodson.

      Happy Easter. Not as important, but it’s April, and that’s draft month.

    2. I’m fairly certain the Niners are down to two players if they stay at 9. 1. Edmunds 2. R Smith. Everyone else is a smoke screen. Especially drafting a safety. That’s not happening. I don’t see Landry as the pick either unless they trade down. Edmunds is the target!

    1. MWN,
      He’s my dark-horse pick – if Edmunds is gone.
      Love Edmunds versatility.
      Love Ro. Smith as a pure LB.
      Strengthening the box is my personal preference.

          1. They’ll pass on Edmunds. I hope the Bears take him or Ward instead of Landry. Nelson won’t get past the Buccaneers.

            1. They will pass on Edmunds if he is gone or Nelson drops. Which I don’t see happening. Edmunds is target #1… There giving clues you just ain’t seeing them. Trying Harold at Leo should of been a hint to you guys. Not signing anyone but Croyle at LB should of opened your guys eyes. Roquan is the fall back option. Edmunds can fill in for Foster once he gets suspended. When Foster returns he plays next to him.

              1. Harold will fail at Leo, and Attauchu will replace him at Sam. You don’t need to draft an ILB at 9 to mitigate the eventual 6 game suspension that Foster may or may not serve this year. You can do that in this draft on day 3….

    2. I don’t see the 49ers taking Smith or Edmunds. They already have their Mike and Will. Foster and Malcolm Smith, who is paid to be a starter. They have their backup for Foster in Coyle. They will add a LB but it will be for depth.

      Edge, CB, OL or safety. Their first pick will be one of those positions.

      1. Agreed. Edmunds looked a little labored and stiff in his lateral movement and change of direction to me. I wonder if that’s why he dnp in the 3 cone drill. He kinda reminds me of Bud Dupree….

      2. Trusting on Foster and M. Smith to be your long term LB’s seems to be a much bigger risk then Drafting Edmunds or Ro. Smith.

        1. Trusting Harold, Marsh and Attauchu to consistently apply pressure on the edge seems to be an exercise in futility. I’d much rather find a day 3 LB to reinforce our starters. Maybe Jack Cichy….

          1. Exactly. Foster, Smith, Coyle and a mid round pick will be sufficient for now. Marsh, Attaochu, Harold and a mid round pick is not sufficient. Edge is a bigger need than LB. And has less depth this year – there are servicable LBs that will be available in the mid rounds, but I wouldn’t trust a mid round edge to help fix the pass rush.

            1. Nope, I’m tired of just wishin’ and hopin’ and thinkin’ and prayin’ at the position. It hasn’t been properly addressed since Aldon Smith….

          2. Razor,
            You might be right, but I don’t think Lynch is convinced of that.

            If we go EDGE Landry is our guy.
            If we go Safety it’s James.
            If we go LB it will be Edmunds.
            If we go CB bank on Fitz.
            If we trade out of 9, all bets are off. Although Landry might be available in the mid 1st. If he is, it’s a no brainer and a steal.

              1. Packers need help on defense as well.
                If Landry drops to them he will be hard to pass up.
                Landry is a plug and play talent.

              2. 10-yard splits which are valued even more highly than the 3 Cone as it pertains to Leo:

                Khalil Mack: 1.56
                Jadeveon Clowney: 1.56
                Von Miller: 1.57
                Vic Beasley: 1.59
                Harold Landry: 1.60
                Demarcus Lawrence: 1.62
                Melvin Ingram: 1.62
                J.J. Watt: 1.64
                Joey Bosa: 1.66

              3. Highest Sack Production In A Season:

                Landry 16.5
                Chubb 10
                Sweat 7(comes with medical concerns although he passed his medivalve with flying colors)
                Davenport 8.5(against inferior competition)

                Production + Traits + Fit = Golden

  33. They value versatility ALOT. There is no one as versatile as Edmunds. Harold is a free agent at seasons end. Croyle is a special teamer. Smith won’t be on the team in 2019. Foster is on his last chance. Edmunds is the #1 target if he is there.

    1. Edmunds would be best served learning how to play one linebacker position first. Instincts need developing, unlike Smith who has them in spades. Boreland was the only player I can think of that Baalke selected by compromising his fanaticism with measurables over instincts. Worked out well until he decided football wasn’t his cup of tea….

      1. I don’t understand why you keep referencing Balke. He is no longer around. Smith will be cut after the 2018 season. Foster has a very cloudy future with the Niners. Edmunds is the most talented defender in this draft by a wide margin. He resembles most like a Julian Peterson slash Anthony Barr. Except he is even more athletic. LB is a much bigger need then you guys are talking about.

        1. Baalke, Baalke, Baalke. Lol! Has to do with football instincts, RAW. Edmunds has the measurables, and his play improved as the season went along, but his instincts pale in comparison to Smith’s. Smith is a superior LB to Edmunds at this point in their careers. As for Edmunds being the most talented defender in this draft by a wide margin? If I was Wikipedia, I’d use that as my first example of hyperbole….

            1. Happy Easter to you and your family, RAW! I will be disappointed with the pick at #9 if it’s Davenport, Josh Jackson or any OL not named Nelson, so it’s all good….

              1. Thanks! Me too. I prefer Edmunds, Nelson( Especially), Smith, Landry and a small part of me trading down for Sutton. But I can live with any of those. I like the two safety’s but don’t see it as a need. Going to be fun either way. Have a great night Razor…

  34. Razor,
    You make it sound as if Edmunds is a day two talent. Again, we are talking about a player who is highly rated for good reason.

    Even if plays one position he will excel at it.
    But if I’m drafting Edmunds I will be an ecstatic defensive alchemist developing a variety of ways to use his rare athleticism.
    It would be a sin not to develop his chops on different packages.

    1. Nah, Edmunds is legit for what he is right now and that’s an off the ball linebacker that looks limited in his lateral movement. If you want a specimen to develop a special defensive formula for at that position, I should think you’d be more enamored with Smith. He’s really good in coverage. What’s the matter, his small stature scares you? Dion Jones, my friend. That’s the linebacker I wanted….

    1. Razor,
      Thanks for the link.
      Biderman really likes Landry and so do I. Interesting that Biderman points to Aldon as our last pass rusher. Landry’ numbers in the 40 and 10 split are better than what AS posted at his combine.
      Ht. 6’4 1/4 in
      Wt. 263
      Arm Length: 35 3/8
      Hand Size: 10 In
      40: 4.74
      10 yd split: 1.66
      20 yd split: 2.70
      20 ss: 4.50
      3 cone: 7.19
      vert: 34 in
      broad 9ft 10 in
      Bench: 20 reps
      The difference is that Aldon produced on the NFL level until he went brain rogue.
      Now if Landry can post Aldon Smith’ NFL numbers he will be a “gem.”
      At the moment all we can do is hang our hat on the “potential” Landry has – which is all we have with the other players that have been mentioned here of late.

      1. rocket,
        Did you catch Grant’ March 21, listing his mock?
        He added some very good players after a possible trade with Green Bay.
        E.Nwosu, S.Griffin and Hercules Mata’Afa would be like hitting the lotto if we can secure them.
        Our LB’ing and pass rushing needs could come from these 3 players.
        Nwosu is a dominant player in the box who can also provide a very good pass rush.
        Griffin is a sideline to sideline tackling demon that can wreak havoc.
        Mata’afa is a fierce pass rusher with a powerful burst and relentless play.

        If this trade and draft can be consummated our defense would have the potential be a perennial stalwart for years to come.
        Having these players would nullify having to draft a one dimensional player like Landry and give us strength at multiple positions.

        1. I did see that and I’m all for trading down if the opportunity arises. I mentioned on that thread I liked Nwosu, but he’s not the caliber of player Landry is. I don’t see Landry as one dimensional, he’s actually a perfect fit for the LEO imo, but even if he were, that one dimension is arguably the most important one on a defense.

          1. rocket,
            Yup, I see your point. But if I’m an off-cord and need a little yardage to move the chains I wouldn’t even drop back to pass, I would just run right at Landry.

            I guess my whole weekend entries regarding Landry and Edmunds was that Edmunds’ game was being nitpicked while Landry’ game wasn’t.
            I just wanted to see a more better and balanced perspective on Landry.
            Either of these players would work for me, but my preference is Edmunds – potential to become the anti-one dimensional player.

            1. That’s understandable. It’s always best to be open and objective to both the positives and negatives that a player has. I like Landry better as a player than Edmunds. I think he has abilities that can be all pro caliber with NFL Coaching and it doesn’t hurt that he fills the biggest need this team has imo. That doesn’t mean I’m right or that you can’t like Edmunds better. Just my opinion.

  35. If Landry is a 10 sack guy every year then let’s take him. But if he is a Shane Rey I will pass. If they take Landry they better be right.

    1. He is the best pure pass rusher in the draft.

      I find this comment quite funny. “If Landry is a 10 sack guy every year then let’s take him. But if he is a Shane Rey I will pass.” Sooo what, we should fast forward a few years before making the draft pick, just to make sure? Wouldn’t it be nice if we could do that. But we can’t. And for what it is worth, you could say some variant of this for every player – basically “if they end up being good I am all in with taking them!”. I know I will be all in for drafting Edmunds if he becomes a great player. :-P

      “If they take Landry they better be right”. Or what? You will spend your days telling us they should have taken Edmunds instead? If they take Edmunds, does it matter if he pans out too, or is it just if they take Landry that they better get it right? Why is that? Because you think they should take someone else?

      Shouldn’t it just be a case of whoever they take, we had best hope they end up being good?

      1. I’ve heard how good Landry can be and how Edmunds lacks instinctive football acumen and sure, I see good positives and negatives on both players.
        This is a lengthy report from Charley Cambell of Walter Football – now I know that Walter Football is not gospel but it does present some insight on players with the positive and negative perspective.
        Charley Cambell
        Dated March 25, 2018
        Harold Landry, DE/OLB, Boston College
        Height: 6-2. Weight: 252. Arm: 32.88.
        40 Time: 4.64.
        Projected Round (2018): 1-3.
        3/25/18: Multiple teams sources told me that Landry belongs on the second day of the 2018 NFL Draft. They labeled his senior year tape as not impressive. His run defense was poor, and he looked disinterested in making an effort in the ground game at times. Landry had a big drop in his pass-rush production year over year and put together some ugly games in run defense. Teams that run a 4-3 defense have concerns about Landry holding up on the edge because he is very undersized to be a base end. Multiple teams have told me they have Landry graded as a second-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft. However, there aren’t 32 players who merit first-round grades, so some second-round talents will go on Thursday night, and Landry has a shot at being one of those players given the pass-rush ability he displayed in 2016.

        In 2017, Landry had 38 tackles with 8.5 tackles for a loss, five sacks and two passes broken up. The senior missed a few games with an ankle injury late in the year.

        Landry was a liability versus the run against the Fighting Irish, recording only one tackle while Notre Dame ran for seven touchdowns and had two players exceed 200 yards rushing. On the vast majority of his plays, Landry went against a freshman right tackle, yet was ineffective. Landry also lost his few reps against Mike McGlinchey, plus got rag dolled by Quenton Nelson. It was an ugly performance for Landry. He was slightly better against Clemson, although still underwhelming.
        Read more:

        A concern with me, if Landry can’t beat a freshman right tackle in college what expectation do we put on him at the pro level? Not crazy about a player who shows disinterest as well. Now you can accept or poo-poo this report, but what is being reported seems like actual events that were witnessed.

        Personally for me, Landry falls somewhere in the middle on the negative and positive scale.
        Landry at 9 is a stretch for me, Landry in the mid 1st rd makes more sense.
        But if we need a pass rusher who can also be good at stopping the run then trade up for B.Chubb.

        1. But, but, his ankle.
          :-) Just kidding, but his ankle has been used as an excuse for his entire season. Even early on like the ND game. He was a little hurt in that game. He’ll be a little bit hurt throughout his pro career, stuff happens.

          I find it odd that the people that don’t care much for Edmunds like Landry so much. Landry isn’t the most polished player either and he relies on his athleticism too (speed).

          1. Landry can certainly benefit from adding some extra counters, but he is pretty polished as a pass rush prospect. Not the finished article by any stretch, but he has plenty of tape demonstrating he understands the nuances of playing the edge.

            1. Edmunds has good tape too. How much of his bad tape was due to VT’s scheme?

              My point was that they both need to improve their games and they both rely or get by on their athleticism.

              Would Landry be a top prospect if he had average speed? Of course not. He would have never had a 16 sack season if he had average speed. So will his speed translate? That’s the question. I think it will, but it’s still a gamble like Edmunds would be.

              1. #80,

                I don’t think anybody is doubting Edmunds talent. It’s his natural instincts that are in question along with the position he would play in this defense. He could wind up being a great player but there is no comparison between a Will and an Edge in importance. Getting an edge rusher should be the #1 priority for this team and Landry is the best pure pass rusher in the draft.

              2. I’m just glad the two of us aren’t saving our opinions, as was suggested.

                I think the concerns about Edmunds’ instincts are overblown, like Landry’s run defense. They both have bad film WRT those areas, but more often than not, they were solid.

                Yes, his position. I’m glam I’m not the only one that sees him as a ILB instead of a SAM.

                “Getting an edge rusher should be the #1 priority”

                It wasn’t last year. They were going to take a LB at #3 if Thomas was gone. They might release Foster if he is charged at his court appearance which is before the draft. Granted, there wasn’t a Landry caliber Edge available at #3 last year. This draft could go a lot of different ways. Saleh preaches stopping the run, but we have a glaring need at LEO.

                So will it be BPA or biggest need? They could feel that Landry is both, neither or just one of them.

              3. #80,

                Opinions are all that keep this place going. Can you imagine how boring it would be if all we did was come on here like blind homers and talk about how great everything was? We are always going to have those types of fans on here, but thankfully there are others to balance it.

                The reason I’m judging these players so harshly is because of where they are going to be drafted. Edmunds is extremely talented and if they decide to take him I will support it, but when I’m looking at players who can go in the top ten, I want as few flaws as possible. Edmunds guesses a lot and guesses wrong. Now maybe they coach him to be aggressive results be damned, but I’d be surprised if that were the case. I’m also leery of his tackling ability at times. He goes high far too often and that is a sure fire way to miss tackles in the NFL.

                Last year was a different animal. They literally could have drafted any position and called it an upgrade. This year we have obvious needs and if Landry falls – which I’m honestly not sure of at this point – he would be a great option at arguably the biggest need position. I’m not an advocate of reaching for need. I just don’t see taking Landry at #9 as a reach. I think a lot of people fell asleep on this kid due to a season in which he played through injury and they are just now starting to wake up on him. He’s now a fixture in most mocks in the top 15 and I would be surprised if he wasn’t a top 15 player on most teams boards from the outset.

                Ultimately whether they draft Landry or not, they are going to be in position to get an elite talent and there are a number of prospects that would be good additions. While I like Landry a lot, it’s not a one guy or bust draft for me.

        2. AES,

          Walterfootball is a joke for reasons just like this. Instead of relying on Charlie Campbell who either doesn’t know what he’s watching or just read the box score of the game, watch it for yourself:

          He blew a couple of plays that resulted in big runs, but he sure as hell wasn’t a liability and was double teamed any time the QB dropped further than 3 steps. Watch how quickly he gets into the backfield early on. He has special pass rushing ability and is just scratching the surface. He’s going to be a top ten pick.

          1. Walter and Charlie have real NFL sources. As CfC mentioned, they do well at predicting where players get drafted. I believe this is because they base their mocks on what they hear instead of what they think.


            “Here is how all of the prominent 2017 NFL Mock Drafts scored”

            Charlie Campbell 9
            Daniel Jeremiah 8
            Peter King 7
            Lance Zierlein 6
            Walter Cherepinsky 5
            Mike Mayock 5
            Scott Wright 5
            Bucky Brooks 4
            Todd McShay 4
            Josh Norris 4
            Tony Pauline 4
            Pete Prisco 4
            Rob Rang 4
            Pete Schraeger 4
            Dane Brugler 3
            Chad Reuter 3
            Charley Casserly 2
            Mel Kiper 2
            Bob McGinn 2

            If Charlie and Walter are hearing something from real NFL sources, it’s worth paying attention to.

            1. #80,

              Mock draft scoring is fun, but not accurate. Charlie and Walter literally update their mocks every week. Most of the others on that list do 3-4 total. They are the Sebs of the mock draft world.

              I know nothing about these guys personally, but my bet is they are just guys who show up to events and then pretend they have more knowledge than they really do. I say that because a lot of the analysis they give is flat out ridiculous and nonsensical. The comments Charlie made about Landry based on the ND game are flat out wrong. If you watch the video, you see quite clearly that Landry set the edge very well for the most part and got a lot of pressure early on. ND countered by going to more 3 step and doubling him on longer drops. There were two obvious mistakes Landry made: One on an inside stunt where he left his side wide open on a run play and once when he got beat by the QB for a big gain. The “rag dolled” reference was hilarious considering he got double teamed by McGlinchey and Nelson on the play with Nelson hitting him while he was already engaged with McG. Charlie has no idea what the term rag dolled even means apparently.

              I posted that so AES could watch and form his own opinion instead of relying on somebody else. I hope everybody does that if they have the time.

              1. Someone on here pointed out how accurate Walter football is, I think CFC but I’ve been doing this for years, and it always seemed to me they were one of the worst sites for any semblance of reality….

              2. I’m not a big fan of their site. Not just because I think they are self promoters, but because the lay out is poor and hard to read with all the ads that continually pop up.

          2. They ere spot playing him in that game, whuch didnt make sense. Due to this he couldn’t have been the liability against the run people are saying he was in that game. Plus on passing downs he was getting pressure. Notre dame just got rid of the ball very quickly… that happens.

          3. rocket,
            Walter Football may be a joke but Lance Zeirlein who seems to be more reputable also listed Landry as having some weakness in the run game.
            My take on Landry is that there are areas in his game that need refining. Question is, does Lynch have the patience to give Landry the time for him to hone his skills?
            Also, if the team is looking for designated pass rusher only, then go after Davenport or Key later in the round. Key might even drop to Rd 2.

          4. rocket,
            Regarding Landy.
            There’s a tendency not to like those who disagree with us around here.
            I remember all the flak Greg Cossell used to get when he would share his insights on Alex Smith.
            Walter Football’s Charley Campbell and analysts Lance Zeirlein have been in this business for years.
            I’m guessing that they have an inkling of football info.

            1. There’s also a tendency to get a little anal when “their” player isn’t the 49ers choice. I trust NDT scouting over Campbell and Zierlein because they show their work and break it down with film….

              1. So does Greg Cossell (who has over 30 years experience), and he was getting hammered when he would give any negative analysis on Alex Smith during his weekly stint on KNBR.
                We will lean towards those who agree with our take/opinion at a much higher percentage than those that don’t agree.
                Landry (according to many professional analysis) still has holes on his game. It probably comes down to a matter of taste on Landry. If we are looking for a one-dimensional pass rusher than there are many in this draft to choose from. Some analyst have Davenport higher than Landry. And I recently saw Lorenzo Carter ahead of Landry – go figure.

              2. AES, you’re wrong. There’s Chubb, Landry, and then a cliff. Both have the traits along with production, and lack of production, along with surgeries, are what you get with the rest of the contestants or as you call them, “one-dimensional pass rushers”. Landry can be a double digit sack artist in this league, and I think Biderman spelled it out pretty damn well.

                As for Cosell, sure he’s good at breaking down quarterbacks. I’ll give him that, but I like scouting every position. NDT has good all around scouting, and some of their members are better at certain positions, but that’s just a given. We all have our specialties. I guess Seb’s was getting on people’s nerves….

              3. “I trust NDT scouting over Campbell and Zierlein because they show their work and break it down with film”


                “I wish Landry’s hands were more nuanced, as he doesn’t really incorporate much versatility or physicality into his attacks.”

                “One of the biggest areas of Landry’s game that needs to be developed is his usage of counter moves.”

                “Too often Landry lets his rushes die out at the top of the arc when he can’t corner”

                “He rarely adapted his rush plan to take advantage of opponent’s tendencies”

                “Landry can be hit-or-miss getting off blocks”

                “Landry graded out as an early day two value on my numerical scale, but that score will likely make him a top 32 talent on my board, if not a top 20 one.”

              4. Yep, he does a really good job. I think Landry is gonna be special. I don’t think he questioned his effort though….

              5. Razor,
                I said over the weekend if Chubb lands at 7-8 we should trade to get him. Chubb is a much better overall player then Landry.
                Some mocks have Davenport going before Landry in the draft. Landry is a pure one-dimensional pass rusher and most football pundits seem to say this. The holes in his game are obvious which in my opinion may cause him to slide out of the top 15 picks.

                Also, the more I look at Davenport I see a much stronger player at the point of attack, someone who will need to garner double team attention, he’s strong against the run and btw, he’s a player that can get to the QB.
                I can see why some pundits have him ahead of Landry.
                Sure, there are some questions surrounding Davenport – but if Lynch likes him I believe he can work to iron out any issues.

              6. You think Davenport is stronger than Landry, even after Landry put up more reps on the bench press?

              7. AES,

                Davenport doesn’t fit the profile of a LEO in this system. Way too tall, not all that strong for his size and he didn’t dominate inferior competition. He is a project that doesn’t belong in the first round discussion imo.

            2. AES,

              I’m not criticizing Charlie for disagreeing with me. I’m criticizing him because his comments on Landry re. the ND game are for the most part flat out wrong. I have never said Landry is a perfect player, he isn’t. He needs to improve his technique and develop moves he can execute off of each other. He also needs to become more aware of keeping contain while rushing the QB. What he is, is a natural pass rusher who is just scratching the surface of what he can eventually become and he’s already playing at a high level based on natural talent.

            3. Here’s what Zierlein says about Landry by the way:

              Bottom Line Landry lacks premium size, but his burst, stride length and ability to dip and rip around the edge give him special potential as an edge rusher. Landry lacks strength at the point of attack and may be a designated pass rusher early in his career. While he can play standing for 3-4 teams, he’s at his best with his hand in the dirt as a rusher. Landry can get by as an NFL rusher with just speed and athleticism, but he has an opportunity to become a Pro Bowler if he can improve his hand usage and develop an inside counter.

              Not exactly damning is it? His comparison is Vic Beasley who went 8th overall the year he came out. I’d be happy with that kind of production personally.

              1. rocket,
                I know all the positives in Landry’ game that has certainly been well documented here lately.
                I simply wanted to look at some negatives to make a fair perspective of his game that wasn’t being addressed.
                Look at Zierlien’ report again. Sure, nothing damning, but he points out some of the same things that Charley Campbell saw (just worded differently).
                Campbell used the word “liability”
                Zeirlien uses the word “weakness” that was included in his complete analysis. But in this section of his report, he said; “Landry lacks strength at the point of attack and may be a designated pass rusher early in his career.” This tells me that he is not a complete player, at least as of now.
                I repeat, if Lynch/Saleh is only looking for a one-dimensional pass rusher there are a few to choose from later in the draft.

              2. AES,

                Landry is not one dimensional. He can set the edge against the run and can also drop in coverage. He does need to be more consistent in the run game, but this idea that he can’t do it at all is just flat out wrong. Just watch that video I posted and some others you can watch at Draft Breakdown. He’s not a perfect player, nobody is at this stage of development, but as I mentioned, he has a natural ability to rush the QB that can’t be taught. The other things can be Coached as well as getting stronger in an NFL program.

  36. Well of course that’s what we hope for Scooter. I believe Edmunds is going to be special. I don’t see special with Landry but I could be wrong.

      1. Joey Ostman put up 14 sacks this season, where does that put him?
        Nary a mention of Ostman around here.

        So if the pass rush is vital for the defense why not make a draft trade for B.Chubb who is considered the best at his position?
        If Chubb falls to say 7 or 8, could Lynch make a move to acquire him?
        Lynch moved up one spot for Thomas last year and acquired Foster in the 1st rd as well.
        Except for a shoulder injury and some combine antics that got Foster sent home, Lynch thought highly of him to get him late in the 1st.

        If Chubb is gone at 9 then we’ll see what Lynch wants to do with 9. I still see us trading down and hoping that Landry makes it to the mid rd where he makes good sense.
        We could also have a shot at Davenport and Key in the mid rd as options to fill our pass rush need.
        Then again, for all we know, Lynch and Shanny may go WR to give Polo more weapons.
        Oh, the humanity, lol.

        1. Ostman? Sure, we can add him on day 3 if it’ll make you happy. I have no problem with that. Let’s double dip at corner too.

          As for trading down and
          Landry makes it? Bad idea if that’s who you want.

          1. “Bad idea if that’s who you want.”

            If that’s the only guy you want. Last year’s Niner board was

            So while Thomas was BPA, they risked losing him because they felt comfortable taking Foster.

            Say they think Landry is BPA at #9 (certainly possible), but they would be fine with taking Edmunds, Smith, Fitzpatrick, James or Sutton. Why not try to trade down to #14 if they’re all on the board at #9?

          2. Razor,
            Sure, if Lynch has his sights locked on Landry at 9 then yes, he should go get him. But if all Lynch wants is a pass rusher then he may also have Davenport and Key to choose from who I think will go late 1st and even 2nd rd.

        2. AES

          I hate to break into the conversation and the “my dog’s bigger than your dog..”, but it for opinions and I have one also…I agree with you if I’m catching your drift about Marcus Davenport…I like his size, and from the DE position, could wreak havoc in the O backfield at the same time opening up opportunities for someone like Marsh from the opposite side…no way are you going to ignore someone with his size, speed and flexibility. I mentioned Alex Vander Esch also, so to me, I think that edge rusher has plenty of good candidates. Frankly, I’m having a hard time with a mock, …tooo many good options….

          1. Davenport doesn’t possess nearly the ankle bend or speed that Landry does. I wouldn’t touch him until the 3rd round, but someone is gonna draft him in the first round. I’d guess in the 20’s. He’d be redundant for us because we already have Armstead, unless you’re advocating to trade him…;>)

            1. “I wouldn’t touch him until the 3rd round,”

              Agreed. He lacks experience in the 3 point stance. Would be a massive project for us.

              1. Is this where I’m supposed to pretend I don’t know who you’re talking about? I better get the shovel because I suspect another dig at Thomas coming….

          2. Oregon,

            At the risk of being labelled something for correcting you, It’s Leighton Vander Esch and he’s not an Edge rusher. Good LB prospect but he’s only been a starter for one season and has some of the same issues Edmunds does as far as taking himself out of a play by being too aggressive or guessing wrong.

            1. Being over aggressive in pursuit or against the run or guessing as you call it, is all about technique. In the NFL he will have coaches teach him this relentlessly.
              The thing about Edmunds is he has a non stop motor. You cannot teach that.
              For all the reasons you say he is not the right choice for the 49ers, in fact he is and that’s what makes him the best pick if he is there at #9. He is versatile, fast, competitive and yes raw. But that’s why you draft him and then develop him. As they are doing with Solomon Thomas, Pita, Eli Harold.

              1. My reasoning for Edmunds not being the right choice is mainly because I see better players at positions of greater need Chris. My negative points regarding his play fall in line with those of most young players including the ones I like better. I know he’ll improve and I’ve also said he could wind up being a very good player. I just think there are better options I would take ahead of him.

              2. Players who could still be on the board at #9 I would take instead:


              1. rocket

                Please excuse the ‘double-clutch’ but I am seeing a lot of concerns about our edge-rusher LB,/DE….Those are fire eating, heavy breathers who foam at the mouth, and would dive into hell to get to the QB. Fortunately, the football gods created OT’s and pulling C’s and G’s, and TE’s and Fullbacks to discourage them….Having attempted those positions, I’ve had to suck it up when I got waylaid 10-15 yards away from the QB…What I am saying, is that despite the success or failure,…you must be there for the next play, and be prepared to do it all over again…IT’S JUST PART OF THE JOB. Even the very best (LT, Aldon, etc) aren’t successful all of the time….But if you’re not getting knocked down, or being ridden out of the play, you’re not playing hard….

  37. Interesting read with film.

    “While he will get pressure, one of the issues with his signature move is that it can be anticipated and he gets driven around the quarterback and out of the play. This happens often. Here was one such instance against VT. Instead of a sack, the QB turns it into a big run”

    Think Landry versus Russell Wilson.

    I mentioned the gray areas about pressure stats recently. Here’s an example.

    “What gets me is these plays go down as “pressures” but are in actuality big gains for the offense because Landry laps the quarterbacks, removes himself from the play and leaves one side of the field open.”

    “he’s just not one of the surest finishers”

    Again, think Russell Wilson.

      1. No it’s not. It’s one I used to talk myself out of my original desire for Landry. What I realized was that we hired a pass rush specialist, and he can develop Landry’s arsenal. I also realized that using him as a situational pass rusher in his first year like Aldon Smith will force quarterbacks up towards our 3t’s, which will make their jobs easier and open up our entire defense….

        1. “What I realized was that we hired a pass rush specialist, and he can develop Landry’s arsenal.”

          Can’t assume a guy with inconsistent effort is going to work hard to improve his game.

          “will force quarterbacks up towards our 3t’s,”

          He was a liability on the plays in the links.


          Yup. This won’t sit well with the Landry fanboys.


          “That sounds like the tendency that Armstead has. Always running by the QB and seems to never put away the QB.”

          Bingo. And it still counts as a pressure somehow.

          1. Inconsistent effort? Are you referring to Key or Landry? As for liability on film, you need to check out Edmunds early on in the season although is won’t sit well with his fanbase. Pressure, disruption, it all leads to production….

            1. You know I’m talking about Landry. Key isn’t even on my board.

              “Pressure, disruption, it all leads to production”

              Yeah, how much of Landry’s “pressure” was the kind of pressure we saw in the link.

              “…Edmunds early on in the season although is won’t sit well with his fanbase.”

              Yes, I’m an Edmunds fan. I put this link by itself to avoid the Landry versus Edmunds talk. Just pointing out that Landry has flaws in his game and he has work to do. He’s not the slam dunk Edge people are making him out to be.

              And as I said, you can’t assume Landry is going to work hard at improving his game. This is where the interview process comes in. The Niners can determine if he will be a hard worker, hopefully.

              1. As humans, we all have flaws. First time I ever heard anyone question Landry’s effort. No one is a slam dunk except for Nelson. I will assume that Lynch chooses wisely….

              2. “First time I ever heard anyone question Landry’s effort.”

       and Walterfootball to name a few. I could post many links questioning his effort, but more than one link is considered spam. But it’s OK to post the work from home scam.

              3. Yea, just post your best one because this is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone question his effort or lack thereof….

              4. What’s the best? My guess would be NFL sources, the professionals.


                “Multiple teams sources told me that Landry belongs on the second day of the 2018 NFL Draft. They labeled his senior year tape as not impressive. His run defense was poor, and he looked disinterested in making an effort in the ground game at times.”



                “Landry’s effort level this year didn’t seem to match his 2016 tape even before he suffered an ankle injury.”

              5. Hmmm, I saw a guy who got a ton of double teams and played most of the year with a dinged ankle. I certainly didn’t come away with any questions regarding his effort, but then again, that’s something you were questioning about Solomon Thomas too, and I didn’t see it. I do need some new glasses…hmmm.

              6. “that’s something you were questioning about Solomon Thomas too, and I didn’t see it. I do need some new glasses…hmmm.”

                You didn’t see him slow dancing in place when he would get stood up?

            2. Looking for “pressure and disruption that leads to production?”
              Then look no further then E. Nwosu (USC). This guy is not an EDGE, but clearly has keen football instincts (probably best coming out of college) and has a nose for the football whether it comes by way of pass-rushing or batting down passes at the line of scrimmage.
              Wouldn’t surprise me if he becomes a better overall pro then Landry – and yes, even Edmunds.

              1. Nwosu looks like a day 3 pick to me.Again, you’re willing to compromise at the position, and I’m saying it’s time to stop doing that with a guy like Landry available….

      2. AES says:
        April 2, 2018 at 9:15 am
        “That’s an inconvenient truth some don’t want told.”

        You nailed that one AES. I’m with you on this. I like Landry and Edmunds, but Edmunds was getting picked to death while Landry was getting a pass (for the most part).

        1. Edmunds 2017, Solo-57, Asst-51, Total-108, Sacks-5.5, Tackle For Loss-14
          Sam 2017, Solo-87, Asst-40, Total-127, Sacks-3, Tackle For Loss-9.5

          1. Razoreater says:
            April 2, 2018 at 1:37 pm
            “Nwosu looks like a day 3 pick to me.Again, you’re willing to compromise at the position, and I’m saying it’s time to stop doing that with a guy like Landry available….”

            Your reading too much into what i’m saying. I never said Nwosu was a day one prospect. I said that he shows very good instincts and an uncanny nose for the ball. Nwosu seems to have more to offer then Landry and possibly Edmunds because he looks pretty good at doing many things on the field.
            Landry’ best asset is rushing the QB. That makes him a one-dimensional player at the moment. Coaching could help fill in the gaps but it won’t happen in year one.

    1. Ok and how many Russell Wilsons are there in the NFL? There is no doubt Landry has to do a better job of contain on some of his rushes, but let’s also keep in mind he is being Coached to get to the QB and does that very well. In the pros he will be Coached to use his eyes and hands to control where he is in his rush. That is not hard to learn.

      1. I’d break out the old Rocky drill, and have my defenders chase a chicken. That’s essentially what Wilson is when he moves around, but I think he’s due for an ACL with all the mileage. He could’ve been a dodge ball champion….

        1. C’mon Razor. If the only way we can beat RW is for him to get injured, then we aren’t ready to make a run at the division no matter who we pick in the draft.
          I should take your comment as sarcasm, right?

          1. C’mon AES. Let’s throw logic out the window for fear of being insensitive. I really hope you’re not doing some fake news by saying I’m hoping he gets hurt, are you? The facts are he’s been running around like a chicken for years, putting extreme stress on those knee cartilage’s, and sooner or later, and it will be sooner due to mileage, they gonna give, bro!

            1. I would add that unlike guys like Watson, Wilson is thickly built in the lower body. His quads and of course genetics are what have given his knees the duration he’s enjoyed….

            2. Yeah, I guess that I shouldn’t read too much into your “I think he’s due for an ACL with all the mileage” comment.

              1. Yea, that’d be something CNN would do, because you know, the more stress, wear and tear on knee cartilages have no correlation whatsoever with tears. I guess I should start running the stairs again with 30 lbs. in my Alice Pack now that I know my doctor was full of sh!t. Eyeroll….

        1. As mentioned, he will get Coached on his angles along with his hand eye coordination. He has the things that can’t be taught which is why he has a chance to be a special player at the NFL level.

          1. 1st step explosion, bend, production. Landry can’t be beat in all three categories, and there is one hell of a precipitous drop off after him….

      2. “Ok and how many Russell Wilsons are there in the NFL?” rocket.

        There is only one RW, but we play against him twice a year and he has been the cause of a lot of misery (dilly!).
        We aren’t going to make much headway in our division if we can’t contain Wilson.
        Maybe we jump that hurdle this year but we won’t know until we play them.

    2. There is no doubt Landry has things to work on, but in some of those clips he is actually doing his job on the play. He doesn’t get blown off the ball and forces the play inside more often than not. A lot of these clips actually show how bad the BC cast was overall.

    3. Lol! A lot of hand wringing over things that are either positives or correctable. Those pesky pass rushes where he gets pushed behind the QB – you will also notice the QB needs to step up to avoid him. That would be a good play if the inside pressure was any good. It absolutely should go down as a pressure as he did his job. Not his fault the guys inside didn’t do theirs. Against a guy like Wilson you will typically have a LB spying him as well.

      Honestly, you would think this never happens to good pass rushers in the NFL based on the way some of you are pointing to this as proof he is a risk. In those plays he gets a step on the OT and forces the QB off schedule. This is a good thing!

      1. It’s precisely what we need, and they’re bitching about it! We don’t have anybody that can do that on a consistent basis, nor have we in a long time….

      2. He’s too wide on those plays. Those athletic QBs went the other way because of the lack of pressure in general, not because Landry made them.

        This actually might be a bigger problem against pocket QBs as Landry is overshooting or getting too wide of the pocket. A QB that can stand and deliver in the pocket doesn’t have to worry about Landry unless he is coming free. If Landry is being engaged, he’s a non-factor since he can’t fight power with power.

        1. Huh? He was going to hit the QB if (a) the OT didn’t make a last ditch effort to push him wide and (b) the QB didn’t step up. He made the QB step up. His teammates did nothing to support him though.

          This feels very much like you searched for an article which supports the other articles you’ve read that told you about Landry’s weaknesses, and found a new thing to argue against him. But it is ill conceived in the article. Its like saying an interior pass rusher that gets through the line but is pushed aside by a recovering OG just past a QB that has needed to move from his spot made a bad play if that then results in the QB rattling off a long run in the space the DT came from. Ridiculous.

          1. I picked that link because it had film that we could all analyze. Apparently you disagree with the conclusion of the author and myself WRT the film. We all see things differently.

      3. Well, this goes back to when someone early in this conversation said that we need to draft pro-bowl, all-pro type players.
        Landry may become all-pro in time, but it won’t happen in his 1st season. Same could be said of Edmunds. The only players I believe have the potential to be pro-bowl in their 1st year are Derwin James, Minkah Fitzgerald and Quintin Nelson and possibly Barkley.
        After that, it’s a crap shoot.

      4. This is part of the problem when you are grading a player in a team sport and why many pro scouts aren’t fans of PFF. While it looks like Landry may be going too wide on his rush at times, he’s actually leaning against the OT as he gets closer and setting himself up to make the sack, or at the very least keeping the QB from breaking outside of him and forcing him to step up inside. The problem is when there is little penetration from the middle of the DL, it leaves huge gaps the QB can escape through. Landry certainly isn’t above blame on some of these as he was taken out of the play at times in the running game and had opportunities where he should have taken an inside line instead of arcing outside, but you can make these kinds of observations on pretty much every College player. They are young guys who are still developing. What you are looking for is the natural ability to excel in a given area and then relying on your Coaches to take them to the next level. Landry is playing with talent alone for the most part right now. When he learns how to use his hands a little better and starts to understand the tendencies of NFL OT’s, he’s going to be something special.

  38. That sounds like the tendency that Armstead has. Always running by the QB and seems to never put away the QB. Landry put the QB away plenty in 2016-2017… I think he is obviously in the discussion. I think the Foster decision is a lot more murky then people think. We will know more after April 12th.

  39. Several observations. I am also include some thoughts and analysis.

    1. If Edmunds is available at 9 we should take him. He can play multiple LB positions and he would be an updgrade and potentially fill a crucial need.
    2. If Edmunds is drafted and Minkah is available , we should trade the pick to someone who really wants Minkah.
    3. I am worried about drafting Landry. He had 16 sacks in 16 but only 5 in 17. It looks like he missed the last 4 games. The 5 sacks in 17 include a game with 3 sacks. He completely disappeared in several games including Notre Dame in which he had 1 tackle and zero sacks. Mayock has him rated 4th or 5th best edge. I say pass on Landry
    4. I agree with Grant that we can not overreact to the Rams , but we cant under react either. They are trying to by a Championship the same way Eagles did last year. They have the money with their QB on rookie contract. Their D looks scary and if they land Odell or Gronk, the party may be over.
    5. I would love to trade back and with the extra 2nd pick nick chubb or Ron jones. Sorry, I am not sold on Mckinnon carrying the ball 200 +
    6. I sound like a broken record, but we wold be in a much stronger position heading into the draft if he had singed Pugh/Norwell, not extended ward, brought back Reid (potentially ), skipped Mckinnon and signed ALlen Robinson.
    7. Actual draft cant come soon enough.

    1. RE: Safety>>>>
      I believe Minkah is more of a safety then CB. That is extremely important to note when drafting him. He is comparable to the kid from FSU. Rangy can cover the slot can run with backs and TEs. James is more SS and Minkah Free. I love both of those players but BPE, moreover any mock having 49ers taking a safety is off. I’d rather sign Reid back. He was balling the second half of the year. Plus we have a lot of young talent at safety. We need to fill other spots.

      RE: WR >>>>
      Allen is coming off a knee. He hasn’t played at a high level for a couple season. Yes Blake sucks and all that but there is a risk high reward situation there. Out pressing needs were/ARE, Edge, OL, CB (not safety). I think the coaches want to see the WRs we have with Jimmy for a full year. If value drops to us in the mid rounds sure grab a wide out, but signing a WR just b/c there are available is not prudent. We have to extend Buckner, Tartt, possibly Ward (??), heck maybe Armstead turns it around (doubt it ☹). I think we are good at WR.

      RE: Guards >>>>
      There were some sexy Guards out there that is for sure. But were they really a fit for Shanny’s system… Is Nelson a good fit. I heard he can move but would be better off as a mauler. Garnet “apparently” trimmed down b/c he wants to compete knowing he needs to fight for a starting job if not be traded. Lakin Tomlinson actually started to play well towards middle of the season. Plus Jimmy has good pocket sense and release. However, we do need an upgrade and it would be nice to ensure Jimmy doesn’t have to worry and can read field. I think the play for Guard would be to trade back grab that tackily from Texas or ND and have him sit at Guard for a while and groom got OT down the road.

      Draft strategy >>>> K.I.S.S.
      If we stay put just take one of those two LBs and call it a day.
      If we trade back, grab an OT or Edge (Davenport, Landry)
      If we trade up, try not to give up the farm and grab Chubb if he slips.

  40. I would NOT take Saquon Barkley. How many playoff games and championships these premier backs won? has AP, Fournette, Elliot, the cat from AZ…Gurley. Basically, once you get into high level play defenses can stop the run. If we didn’t have other needs sure grab a sexy RB, but this draft is deep on RBs and I don’t think we need one. COME ON JOE WILLIAMS… WTF

    1. My thinking is that with McKinnon in the fold, the chance of them picking Barkley is 10 out of 100, but that would only be if they saw him as a WR. I think McKinnon is going to be a terror and that WR is not a pressing need.

  41. Two days ago MM ranked their current needs. In order, he sees them as —
    1. Edge rusher
    2. Cornerback
    3. Offensive guard
    4. Inside linebacker
    5. Offensive tackle
    6. Wide receiver
    7. Tight end
    8. Safety
    9. Running back

    More from the article:

    “The 49ers have capable players starting – or competing to start — at every position. Now, they must create more competition and build the back end of their roster.

    –There are not many edge rushers who can step in and make an impact, so it’s possible this need goes untouched in the draft. The 49ers hope to develop the guys already on the roster – players such as Jeremiah Attaochu, Cassius Marsh, Eli Harold, Pita Taumoepenu – and get more from DeForest Buckner, Solomon Thomas and Arik Armstead, too.

    –Richard Sherman and Ahkello Witherspoon are slated to start at cornerback. The 49ers need a lot more help at this spot because it is rare that both starting cornerbacks remain on the field together for any length of time. The 49ers are still looking to sign a veteran cornerback so that all the competition at the back end of the roster in training camp does not include undrafted rookies.

    –Last year through most of training camp, coach Kyle Shanahan did not believe the 49ers had one, let alone two, starting-caliber offensive guards. Laken Tomlinson was acquired just before the start of the regular season. Now, Tomlinson, Jonathan Cooper, Joshua Garnett and, possibly, Erik Magnuson will be competing for the two spots. Plus, the 49ers could add another guard in the draft.

    –The Santa Clara County District Attorney’s office has not announced whether it will pursue criminal charges against Reuben Foster. With his status unresolved, the 49ers should add to the depth at inside linebacker.

    –The 49ers must start looking for a succession plan at the tackle positions. Trent Brown enters the final year of his contract. The 49ers seem unconvinced about making a long-term financial commitment to him. Joe Staley will be 34 when the regular season opens, and it’s uncertain how much longer he can play at a high level.”

  42. To step away from Landry praising/ bashing for a second, looking at it from a different angle, if there is one thing I feel pretty confident about it is that if they don’t take edge rusher early then we will be having the same type of conversation re: need for an edge rusher next year. And those guys don’t typically come available via FA.

        1. Too bad he’ll go top 5, and we’ll be in the 20’s somewhere. Gonna have to trade up. Maybe we should just go ahead and take Landry. My head hurts…;>)

          1. I would only trade up for B. Chubb – better all around game. Or take (gulp!) Davenport later in the 1st who can become a dynamic player all around player as well. He’s a project, but he’s also a beast.
            Landry’ speed will not work in the NFL unless he can combine some power with it.

            1. Uh, Chubb, Landry and Davenport won’t be in next years draft. Landry’s speed and bend will translate very well. I think he’s got a little more power than you’re giving him credit for. In fact, he put up 3 more reps on the bench than Aldon Smith….

    1. “I feel pretty confident about it is that if they don’t take edge rusher early then we will be having the same type of conversation re: need for an edge rusher next year”

      Please Lord noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

      1. Yea, it’s time to address the edge early. Day 1 and stare down from the cliff, or Day 2 and take the precipitous drop off.

  43. Uh, we won’t wait until next year to address our need for a pass rusher.
    The future hypothetical thought undercuts a specific immediate need.
    I believe Lynch addresses this in a few weeks.
    There won’t be a need to have this conversation next year gentleman. You ok with this Razor?
    We will get our pass rusher this year.

    1. Sure, but Scooter and I were having a conversation about next year’s draft. I’d take issue with your assessment that there will be no need to have a conversation about a pass rusher. There’s always a need for more pass rush, just like more cowbell. You like da sack, don’t you?

  44. The way I see it.

    1. James at nine is the safe pick. Potential for success is very high.
    2. Landry is my pick at Nine. Like QB’s, edge is hard to come by better get one while you can.
    3. I think the Niners draft Edmunds. No complaints here. I think he has the highest ceiling, needs more work then the other potential draftees.
    4. Fitz, R. Smith, Ward okay that works.
    5. I sure hope its not Ridley at nine.
    6. If there is a trade down, Niners better get more then its worth.

    1. Glad to hear your perspective, Undercenter. Now if we could just hear from brother JPN, we could proceed to finalize our board….

      1. Yea Razor, its my two cents and I expect no change. I am going to be pretty happy with whoever the pick is. Some good young talent is going to be there at nine.

        1. Good one, man! How’s Little Joe doing? Found out my cat Weasley has a slight heart murmur, and so I cut his food intake by 50% hoping he’d lose some weight. Anything happens to him, and I’ll be crying like a baby with a broken heart for the rest of my life. He’s like a son to me….

          1. Little Joe doing good, just like me, getting older. Doesn’t hear too good his eyesight diminishing. Its never easy when its time.


    “Paul Pasqualoni, a longtime Syracuse head coach who later graduated to the NFL, joined the BC staff just before Landry’s huge junior season, and the timing is no accident. Among Pasqualoni’s pupils are J.J. Watt, Jadeveon Clowney, DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen, and Jason Taylor. Landry is up next—as long as he maintains an obsessive attention to detail, Pasqualoni says.”

    Pasqualoni is DC for Detroit. Landry has said he wants to play for the Lions. Would anyone trade down to #20? There should be some decent options there. Williams, Sutton, Wynn, and I wouldn’t rule out Guice at #20. Feel free to add to the list. I wouldn’t trade down that far, but I would understand if we did.

    1. Sure would, assuming the compensation is worth it. I like the look of Landry, but this team is still in a position where more draft picks is better. Lots of areas they can improve.

    2. I don’t know. Extra picks are always good, but I’d probably stay at #9 rather than going down that far. I’m hoping one of the QB’s slips through and Buffalo wants to trade up. #12 and the first pick of the 3rd would be a pretty good option to me.

  46. Couple of oppinions/observations.

    1. Right now we seem to be spending to much time tearing down players to advance our favorite players. The niners are still a bad team talent wise and could improve at every position other than QB. If i were to rank the positions in order of greatest weakness. It would be as follows.
    1. Edge Rusher – non existant ( Grade F)
    2. Guard – terrible (F)
    3. Linebacker – (average with Foster hot garbage without Foster) (D+ Without Foster this becomes an F)
    4. Corner – (Lots of question marks here and could swing wildly during the season) (C)
    5. Tackle – ( one doesn’t fit the scheme and the other is quite old) (C+)
    6. Running back – (some good potential players but no proven good backs) (C+)
    7. Wide Reciever – (several solid and one very good receiver but no top tier guys) (B-)
    8. Safety – (The benefit of all those injuries was they found Tartt, Ward, and Colbert are all decent players… but can they stay healthy?)(B)
    9. DT – (Buckner is one of the best in the Business, and looks to be for a long time, barring injury)(B+)
    10. FB – (The benefit of greatly overpaying is, you get the best player at his position) (A+)
    11. QB – (Jimmy G. Brings a lot of hope and potential, lets hope he becomes a great one) (B)

    1. Great comments Shoup, my only disagreement is if you have arguably a top 10 quarterback, that is an A on my book, also for a rookie to start in Shannon’s complicated o gives bethard a decent grade as a back up. Good work , tackle and pass rush are important needs to upgrade.

      1. Rebel,
        He was one of the hardest to grade given the sample size. I believe he will become a top 5 qb… the problem is the limited body of work I couldn’t justify grading him as such just yet. Additionally my grading scale was based on starting level players only and units. So I don’t give him an A simply for being a top 10 qb, as roughly 1/3 of the starting qb’s would have an A.
        Maybe its a harsh scale but that’s how I chose to grade them… in my scale I would have something like 5 A grade qb’s and 7 B grade qb’s and 7 C grade qb’s… after that it’s D’s and a lot of F’s

    2. “…..tearing down players….”
      This happens every year, and not just to advance a fave over another guy. Fans and media pick over scouting reports and look for weaknesses and end up talking themselves out of some prospects. It’s from over-obsessing on limited data. I’ve fallen victim to this pattern and talked myself out of Alshon Jeffrey as being too slow to be effective; clearly incorrect.
      It’s April. NFL Fandom is in Washing Machine Mode: We go round and round on the same old stuff like clothes in a washer. Lots of churning and some circular arguements. Dead heats on a merry-go-round.
      Most of what’s written this month will be hyperbole, smoke screens, and group think. Barnyard disturbance.

      1. Yup. Paralysis by analysis. I’ve come to the conclusion that there are multiple good options that will be there at #9 and I will be happy with any of them. It’s all about improving the talent level of this team.

        1. @Rebelscum – QB is a solid B.

          JG has a small sample size and has not proven to hit the long ball. Not that long ball is important but we/defenses need to see he can burn them if they start to get cheeky at the line. He has proven to beat the blitz which is nice.

          The backup QB is more then serviceable. He can potentially grow into something tradable in a couple of years too.

        2. rocket,
          I agree with you Brotha. But it’s nice to be able to focus our attention on football instead of going in circles with Seb like many here have done.
          For awhile here it seemed like there was 50/50 split between football and Seb. Hopefully those days are over.

          Now let’s go out and crush this draft!

        3. rocket

          agreement…I seldom mess with mocks, because I went on about a 5 year run without finding any fruit…so I’ll be happy (begrudgingly occasionally) with whomever Lynch /Shannahan choose for our future. We are still 1-2 seasons away from #6…NO MORE SOLOMONS Please …

          1. Ore,

            We may not always agree on things, but I would like to see you do a mock. I have you to thank for putting Lazard on my radar. Lazard, who’s in my current mock. And yes, NO MORE SOLOMONS.

            1. #80

              Thank you for the encouragement…This is my “Last man standing” mock…In it, I am pointing out the most desireable draftee for the niners (IMHO) and what happens if/when they are taken by bad guys

              Quentin Nelson…….. G … …. everyone’s preference ….. We still need a Guard…Will Hernandez
              Marcus Davenport… EDGE-DE….. If taken…Josh Sweat
              Allen Lazard…WR-TE…Auden Tate …cut Celek and add Lazard/ Tate as either/or at TE-WR
              Derwin James…S-CB…Minkah Fitzpatrick …Either can play both positions WELL
              Isiah Oliver….CB…..Kevin Toliver …as above, both will improve our D backfield
              Alex Cappa….OT…..Mike McGlinchey…Preparing for the future…it IS coming…
              Tremaine Edmunds….LB/EDGE….Leighton VanderEsch….LB’s with rush potential..
              Royce Freeman….RB (big)….Ryan Nall….Yes, from Oregon, and Oregon State…It’s MY mock…and either one of these guys can take it from 5 yards in…

              To explain:
              I don’t think we’ll get a shot at Nelson;
              Davenport or Sweat will be great at Edge rusher;
              Tate or Lazard are interchangeable at TE or WR backing Kittles;
              Fitzpatrick or James are also interchangeable;
              Oliver and Toliver are both aggressive CB’s…big need;
              Foster who…?;
              Cappa and McGlinchey will leave some bloody noses on the field;
              We have 3 smaller backs to get us inside the 10….Now….

              Again thanks #80 and rocket

    3. Good job Shoup. For me it’s the top 2 you listed and then the rest in no particular order other than RB which I would put near the bottom with QB and DT

    4. “Right now we seem to be spending to much time tearing down players to advance our favorite players.”


      On the other end of the spectrum. Some people (not you Shoup) are done evaluating their draft crushes and are dismissive of new information that paints their crush in a negative light, even when there’s film.

      1. Lol! No need to not say who you mean, 80. I am dismissive only where the new information is painting a positive as a negative.

        1. Yes, you in particular, but others too to varying degrees. If only the OT hadn’t made a play the DE would have got home. That’s the standard.

          Some other “new” information I posted was about VT’s scheme and Edmunds’ role in that scheme. While the breakdown of VT’s scheme may be “new” to you, every fan of an ACC team already knew that Foster’s D was very aggressive and has been for about 20 years.

          Not a word on that from you. I’m sure you still maintain that Edmunds would be a bad pick if his game doesn’t develop. This is true, but that can be said about any prospect not named Nelson.

          1. Sorry, wasn’t aware I was meant to respond to the info on VTs scheme. It does help explain some things. But not others, and leaves a lot of questions also. The scheme doesn’t excuse the false steps towards the LOS before the snap. Why he gets fooled by playaction so easily. Why he can be so late to read the play. Why he so often fails to break down making the tackle. All it does is give him an excuse for targeting the wrong gap on occasion. And it brings into question how underdeveloped his instincts are even further as it seems these weren’t a priority for coaching.

            As I have said before, almost all of the good things Edmunds did were based on his athleticism. And his athleticism is great! He could develop into something special. But if I am drafting that high I don’t take that risk.

            Regarding your first paragraph, what? I am not saying those plays were good if not for the OT. They were good plays because he applied pressure and forced the QB to move. In the three examples provided in the article only one actually was an example of him being run out of the play. One! If it was such an issue he would have found more than one good example.

            1. Scooter_McG says:
              April 2, 2018 at 1:42 pm

              “In those plays he gets a step on the OT and forces the QB off schedule. This is a good thing!”

              Scooter_McG says:
              April 3, 2018 at 1:12 pm

              “In the three examples provided in the article only one actually was an example of him being run out of the play.”

              You just proved my point. Yesterday you dismissed all of those plays despite video evidence. Today you acknowledge that he was indeed ran out of one of those plays. The film didn’t change in the last 24 hours. But you’re making progress, I’ll take what I can get.

              1. Getting me to agree to something other than the point I want to make is like getting blood from a stone – you have done well!

              2. Seriously though, the author of that article was trying to make a point that Landry often gets run behind the play because his speed rush is predictable. He gave three examples to “prove” his point. From all the film he had at his disposal, those were the three plays he found to best demonstrate it. And in two of them, his analysis is off point. Only in the bottom one did it really show Landry being run out of the play where his arc was never a threat. If that was what he found in his film study to illustrate his point, he failed. He showed a player that had this happen to him once. Every player has bad plays.

                In my film watching of Landry I never noticed this as an issue. Because it is not. It just didn’t happen often.

              3. I still disagree on those two. I assume the play you acknowledged that he got ran out of is the third one, as it was pretty clear cut (still got credit for a pressure).

                On the first one Landry attempted to grab the QB, failed because he was getting pushed back, and left the right side of the field open. If he wasn’t getting pushed back and was able to stay to the right of (not behind) the QB, the QB wouldn’t have had anywhere to run to. He let the OT take him out of the play.

                The second play is similar. The QB waits for Landry to get pushed behind him and then runs to the part of the field that Landry got pushed away from.

                And it not just those 3 plays.


                This guy says he sees this way to often. Look at the still picture after the video. Landry is pushed out wide of the QB, about 10 to 12 feet away.

              4. Your posts inspired me to go back and rewatch Landry’s film to see for myself. So far I have rewatched the ND and Wake Forest games (2nd and 3rd games of 2017 for Landry). I tried to leave my bias aside as best I can. I considered any rush that resulted in him going behind the QB and the rush not impacting on the QB decision in any way as being an example of this issue. That is, if the rush saw him end up behind the QB, but it was because the QB was forced to step up in the pocket to avoid him I did not consider that an example. If he got close but the QB was not forced to move from his spot to avoid being hit (even if he did – emphasis was on forcing the QB to move to avoid being hit, not whether the QB moved) then that counted as an example of this issue.

                In both games I saw this issue rear its head three times each game (so six times in total across the two games). That was definitely more than I recalled. So it appears I was mistaken – my apologies. That is definitely a recurring event over two games watched which he needs to clean up. I will watch some more games over the next few days to see if it was an issue across more than this two game sequence as well.

      2. Lol, to be fair I end up tearing down all players at this point.
        Landry – to relient on speed and bend, not the stoutest person against the run.
        Edmunds – to raw, relient on athletic ability.
        R. Smith – struggles to take on blockers thats a yikes for a MLB
        D. James – To relient on athleticism and doesn’t have the instincts to play the backend
        M. Fitzpatrick – Is more of a safety than a corner ( Are we really just going to continue taking safeties and DT’s in first round?)