Jed York buys a victory for the 49ers

Jed York spent big bucks to promote four candidates for the Santa Clara city council. It looks like it worked. Now what will happen with Levi’s Stadium and the ongoing feud between the team and the city? (AP Photo/Tony Avelar)

It turns out the 49ers did get a win last week after all. Only it wasn’t on the field.

In a way, you could say it was about the field — the one at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara.

Earlier we told you about the efforts by 49ers owner Jed York to vote in team-friendly candidates to the Santa Clara city council. And when we say “efforts,” what we really mean is mounds of cash. In all, York contributed a staggering $2.9 million to the campaigns of four candidates. A cool $3 million . . . for a city council election.

And when the votes were counted last week, three of of those backed by the House of York were elected. And no wonder, calculations by Yahoo Sports’ Henry Bushnell tabulated that “York’s money accounted for around 90 percent of all spending on city council campaigns.” He says it worked out to $150 per vote.

Here is where we might accuse York of “trying to buy the election.” But we won’t.

Because at this point we can say he wasn’t trying to buy the city council. He did it.

Santa Clara Mayor Lisa Gillmor has called the move “shocking and obnoxious,” and no wonder she isn’t happy. York’s candidates ousted a Gillmor ally, Teresa O’Neill, and won two open seats. That means Gilmore’s majority of supporters on the council are no longer the majority.

There are actually a couple of non-49ers issues to this election, and we will give them a look in a minute. But the real takeaway is York now appears to have a 49ers-friendly majority in the city council. It will be interesting to see what that means to the future of Levi’s Stadium.

It’s not a very big city — about 130,000 — but Santa Clara is feisty. The football team and the city have engaged in an increasingly bitter series of disagreements. It began with the infamous “Soccer Mom/dad Uprising,” when the team ran into an activist buzz saw when it wanted to use youth soccer fields for Super Bowl hosting, and has only gotten nastier and more personal.

They’ve feuded over the amount of rent owed the city, maintenance costs and — famously — the 10 p.m. curfew on weekday concerts at the stadium. The early night rule was such a sore point that pop star Ed Sheeran dropped Levi’s from his concert schedule.

Groups like Stand Up For Santa Clara are railing against the council re-shuffle, convinced the newcomers will be a rubber stamp for York.

“He’s got a stadium. Now he wants to buy the city council,” Stand Up president Burt Field has said.

It’s not an unreasonable concern. Winning candidate Suds Jain has already been quoted as saying the city should consider making the curfew later.

So we should keep an eye on what happens, stadium-wise.

But there are a couple of other points. First, although York definitely blew through the fund-raising ceiling, there are other big money players. Related Companies, a development firm that The Silicon Valley Voice says has an $8 billion development deal with the city, also poured in money, but in support of Mayor Gillmor’s candidates.

It wasn’t peanuts, but Related’s contributions were still far below York’s. News reports estimated Related Companies contributed $11,000-14,000 to four candidates.

The other issue in Santa Clara politics is diversity. Although the city is only about 40 percent white, the city council has generally had a white majority. The city even passed a Voting Rights Act in 2018 that divided the city into six districts in the hope that it would promote a more diverse council.

It hasn’t really worked. At the time of this election, five of the six seats were filled by white council members.

But now, after the York Revolution, the city council added two Asian council members. And that, York insists, is what the 49ers were really trying to do all along. It wasn’t about the stadium and money. It was about diversity and commitment to people of color.

Which ousted council member O’Neill thinks is hilarious.

“If Jed York cares so much about civil rights,” she told Politico’s Carla Marinucci, “why isn’t Colin Kaepernick still playing for the 49ers?”

 

 

 

This article has 493 Comments

  1. “If Jed York cares so much about civil rights,” she told Politico’s Carla Marinucci, “why isn’t Colin Kaepernick still playing for the 49ers?”

    He can no longer morally justify a sport that is so inherently violent, and has been proven to cause brain damage?🙄

  2. This is hack piece by Nevius. He quotes only the Niners opponents in this article. He casts aspersions on the integrity of the newly elected member without any proof. This is utterly dishonest and is a good reason why MSM media gets just a bad rap.

    Since Levi’s Stadium was opened, Mayor Gilmour and her friends in the Council have had second thoughts about the legally-binding agreements they have signed with the Niners. They have tried to nullify some of those terms by taking the Niners to court. They have lost most of those cases costing the City millions in legal fees for cases they wouldn’t have been pursued in the first place. Meanwhile the City has some of the highest paid workers at top management positions.
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/01/29/santa-clara-city-manager-among-highest-paid-in-the-state-gets-11-2-raise/

    I follow this Santa Clara City politics to some extent. The political establishment have a nice buddy system that strongly support the incumbents has prevented new comers to City from successfully running from office. And now the two Asians who won don’t matter because Asians, as we all know, are not the political-correct minority. San Jose Mercury News supported Jain and Park against Gilmour’s buddies. Mercury News has also reprimanded Gilmour in editorials about her personal vendetta against the Niners which has cost significant money to the City taxpayers.

    FYI, data shows that money has not made a difference in winning and losing elections in California. If money was the deciding factor, Meg Whitman would have been governor. Nevius’ assertion is an insult to the voters of Santa Clara that they voted for Jain and Park because Niners supported them through a PAC.

  3. I hardly ever comment on stuff beyond football in this blog, but since Nevius brought up politics, I will take advantage of it to conclude my above rant with a tribute to our unappreciated (or under-appreciated) poll workers whose steady work over last week has been one of the critical components of the triumph of our democracy. Our federal government may be a disaster but it is important the other civic and public institutions function properly to keep this Republic strong. The elections were conducted pretty efficiently with almost no glitch and it shows that the country has improved this critical component for democracy since the 2000 election fiasco.

    As a naturalized U.S. citizen I’m very pleased with how well the process has worked. Politically, I couldn’t have asked for a better result. Most of the California Propositions went the way I hoped. The current President has been a unmitigated disaster to this nation and needed to be a one-term President. I was never a fan of Biden but he’s a decent guy who has some sense of responsibility who can hopefully clean up the mess. The split Congress ensures that the Dems can’t push through more uncontrolled spending. But the taxes will need to go up to run a smaller deficit. Not good news for me after the 2017 “tax cut” bill increased my federal tax by 30% by reducing my state and local tax deductions :( Oh well, maius bonum I suppose.

    1. Don’t be a fool. “Hands Out Biden” (which is what is what he was known as in DC) is not going to clear up a damn thing in DC. He’s part, parcel of the DC culture (i.e. swamp) and will continue to profit greatly because of it.

  4. ALL elections are now “bought” by both sides. Sometimes your side wins, sometimes it doesn’t. Stick to sports, it suits you better.

  5. Wow. Nevius discovered the seedy world of……… Political Donations? Really? Let’s turn this newfound curiosity on, you know, actual meaningful conflicts that could impact the public benefit. Where did Gavin Newsom get his millions in donations? California’s Teachers Association and Blue Shield donated 7 figures. Now, what do you suppose they want from Gavin Newsom? Why in the heck would a teachers association donate over $1M to a politician? Honestly, why would any Teacher’s Association or an Insurance Company donate to a politician who was guaranteed to win without their contribution. The donation wasn’t for the actual campaign. Those donations were for Newsom pushing policies that would help enrich them. CA spends $72bn on education but the state has the worst Student/teacher ratio in the country with 23 students for ever teacher. That donation guarantees favorable policies that enrich education bureaucrats without any benefit whatsoever for actual students. So CW, I’m encouraged by your outrage with campaign finance issues. Maybe you can turn that newfound outrage into something more constructive other than sweet concessions deals at Levi’s. Maybe you can talk to your buddy Will Scmitt at the PD who actually covered some of Newsom’s shadier schemes.

    1. Lol. So it’s just teachers and Newsome, eh Tex? Why would any billionaire businessman or corporation spend millions in political contributions? They have already been successful, why do they feel they have buy political clout?

      1. Speak coherently Grand Duke of York. Your comment makes no sense. As with most unions, the teacher union political donations have nothing to do with actual teachers. You should know that.

        1. Houston,
          As long as the supreme court says money is speech we are stuck with this mess. As a public employee union member I would love to see all corprate and union donations stopped.

          1. You can blame the Supreme Court all you want but it’s your money being used to buy Democrats like Gavin Newsom. Hopefully, you are vocal in your union about your thoughts on using your dues to facilitate corruption.

        2. As with most unions, the teacher union political donations have nothing to do with actual teachers.

          A right wing lie. Coming from a right winger, that’s not unexpected. Ask any teacher if they appreciate having the protection a union affords them.

          Political donations, no matter where they come from, are all about ass-covering. You should know that.

          1. My wife is a teacher. Her mother was a teacher for 40 years. My uncle was a teacher in California public schools and then a professor at a California University for almost 50 years. My aunt was an elementary teacher in Santa Rosa for 30 years. Both of her daughters are currently teachers in southern California. One of my male cousins is a history teacher at a high school in Sacramento. Of course teachers like the collective bargaining the union handles but MANY teachers find union leadership decisions in their political donation choices to be highly objectionable. It’s not some one-off right winger in a teachers union that is outraged at the corruption of their union leadership. Many teachers union members on both sides of the political aisle are outraged at how the union choses to spend their dues. The CA Teachers Union can negotiate the collective bargaining agreement without donating over $1M to Gavin Newsom’s campaign. You have no effing idea what your’e talking about Ahole.

            1. The answer is keeping corporate and union money out of elections. I have no more of a voice in my union at the state level than a mid level employee at a large corporation has in how his CO and stock holders make political donations. The only way it will stop is for the supreme court to decide that money isn’t the same as speech. With the recent makeup of this court thats not going to happen soon.

            2. So members of a union have no voice? Then why not opt out of the union? Considering Nevius’s comical pearl clutching over Jed spending $3M here’s a pretty eye opening analysis of CA Teachers Union spending on just one ballot initiative. CTA spent $10M this year to support Prop 15 and it just failed. CTA has spent over $200M in the past 2 decades getting friendly school board members and city council people elected and fighting against school choice. Even with all this spending, teachers in LA went on strike last year wanting higher pay and smaller class sizes. CTA political donations have nothing to do with helping teachers or improving education outcomes for students.

              https://www.the74million.org/article/analysis-money-is-no-object-as-the-california-teachers-association-tries-to-eke-out-a-property-tax-ballot-victory/

            3. No doubt your fossil fuel employer contributes to political action committees or directly to candidates, and most assuredly republican candidates, also. Are you in such an uproar over that as well… ahole?

              1. Ribs I respect your football opinions. You seem like a bright guy. I have to think you are either blinded by your tribe or you are intentionally obtuse in your effort to support the liberal ideology of your masters. If it’s intentional ignorance, my God what a humiliating existence you must experience.

                Donations to a PAC are active choices by an individual to support political causes that person supports. Public Union political donations are funded by automatic payroll deductions and used on causes a union member may or may not agree with. That you can’t grasp the difference is shocking – well maybe it’s not. If I donate to causes in the energy industry then it’s because I believe that industry is the backbone of our economy and supports over 10 million jobs in the US alone and is the foundation of tens of millions of Americans 401k plans. If I donate to causes in the energy industry it’s because I realize the individuals who work in that industry are really the experts and the path forward to a clean climate in the future for my descendants. Spending on clean energy research and initiatives by the oil & gas industry is in the billions of dollars. If I spend money supporting those causes rather than demonizing an entire industry for some idiotic Mother Jones talking point then that is my choice. Teachers Union members in CA aren’t so lucky. If a teacher disagrees with spending $50M in a single year to support legislation that raises taxes or supports politicians the teacher dislikes then that Teacher is SOL. Sure they tell you, teachers can opt out of those donations but it’s not really that easy. If a teacher disagrees with who the Union supports for a school board or for a city council spot then that teacher is SOL. Their money will be donated to someone they don’t support. If a teacher believes school choice benefits students and family and is the only option to escaping failing schools, especially for minority kids then that teacher is SOL. And why would a union fight to kill policies that are spectacularly successful in helping minority students go to good schools? Because the teachers in those school may not be union members. They don’t need the union to bargain on their behalf. So the union is fighting to make sure all teachers are forced to pay them dues even if the fight they are waging is harmful to students. And guess who supports school choice in states outside your imbecile bubble… Thats right – Democrats. In fact, the genesis for the school choice programs that have been so successful in Louisiana came from Democrats.
                Teachers don’t get a choice in how their dues are used to support political causes. I do have a choice. Big difference that I’m sure you realize but refuse to admit.

              2. Public Union political donations are funded by automatic payroll deductions and used on causes a union member may or may not agree with.

                If you work for a corporate entity that contributes to causes you disagree with (contributions made from corporate earnings due to the efforts of you the employee) you certainly have the option of quitting. If you as a teacher, if you also disagree, you have that option as well. No one is forcing anything from anyone. Is that so hard to grasp?

              3. Cmon Ribs. I expected more from you. You moved the goal post from voluntary political donations vs compelled political donations by way of union dues to – Well you’re free to quit the profession. Jeez. I mean the intellectually dishonesty of liberals knows no bounds.

    2. Houston, you’re talking about campaign money as a conservative …. lol, oh man, that’s rich!

      Do yourself a favor now and go do a little research on Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission 558 U.S. 310. The case arose after Citizens United, a conservative non-profit organization challenge the 2002 Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, In essence any limit in independent expenditures by corporations and unions violated the First Amendment’s protection of free speech. The ruling opened the floodgates in terms of political donations, and had a major, major impact on campaign finance, allowing unlimited election spending by corporations and labor unions and fueling the rise of the dreaded Super PACs. and later rulings by the Roberts Court, including McCutcheon v. FEC (2014), would strike down other campaign finance restrictions, creating an absolute swamp of money, a lot of it dark money. Also, studies show that the Citizens United ruling boosted the electoral success of Republican candidates.

      The fact that you are unaware and don’t even seem to realize that you are arguing against a conservative principle, and in favor of a progressive position, would seem to indicate that you are likely one of those people who are trapped in your own social networking bubble, simply parroting the dangerous misinformation you are being fed on social media, and because of this you are no longer able to think for yourself on a critical level. I hate to assume to know someone simply by their tribal politics, but the data at least, would suggest you are considered a male white male voter without a college degree. You know, the kind of voter that refuses to wear a mask (to help save lives and the economy) because it’s his constitutional right.

      1. Try to keep up skippy. CW wrote an article seething with outrage that Jed York spent $3M on city council races. I found it humorous given the vast amounts of money given to sleazy politicians like Gavin Newsom. Easy to find examples of money in politics. CA Teachers Union spending is just the easiest illustration. Now go back to your chicken nuggies and Impractical Jokers and let the grown ups talk.

        1. Houston, it’s that you single out Newsom, as if it’s only Democratic Governors, and not GOP Governors who are also taking huge donations from special interests, is the point I am making. And perhaps more importantly, the fact that you complain about money in politics, but you refuse to knowledge that it’s been the lawsuits and challenges to campaign finance laws from conservative groups like Citizens United (Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission), that have opened the floodgates to in allowing unlimited election spending by corporations and labor unions and fueling the rise of Super PACs, and that studies show that the Citizens United ruling boosted the electoral success of Republican candidates, that tell me you either don’t care about the facts of how we got here as a country, or aren’t willing to admit to it.

          I’m not sure if it’s that you don’t even seem to realize that the argument you are making should be directed at conservatives, or that you do realize this, but are such a partisan hack that you are trying to twist he logic of your argument, either way it tells me a lot about you as an uninformed citizen.

          1. JFC, in case you haven’t heard the 49ers play in CA. Jed York donated to politicians in Santa Clara, CA. Gavin Newsom is one of the sleaziest politicians in America and was the Mayor of San Francisco. He has been surrounded by finance, sexual harassment, and extramarital affair scandals literally for decades. CW’s outrage at perfectly legal political donations by Jed York is comical compared to the corruption right there in CWs backyard with Gavin Newsom. The comparison is an obvious comparison to make unless you are an absolute effing imbecile. I guess it wasn’t obvious to you so you’ve outed yourself as the AFI. Congrats.

            1. Houston, I think it’s very clear that you are confused as to where you stand on campaign finance, and money in politics. You might want to figure out what you are arguing for, or against, before posting this confusing nonsense.

              Are you against campaign contributions in general, or just campaign contributions from groups you don’t like (like teachers, for crying out loud)?

              I hate to tell you this but, until you figure that much out, you’re just going to continue to come across as confused about the point you are trying to make.

              1. You aren’t a serious person. You are blinded by the letters next to a mans name. If the letter happens to be a (D) then you will go to your grave defending that man even if it means defending a man as immoral and corrupt as Gavin Newsom. This guy slept with one of his best friends wives and ruined their marriage. He has had so many financial scandals you can’t count them on your hands and feet. He has been credibly accused by multiple women of sexual harassment. And your first reaction is to defend the guy because he’s a Democrat. I find that truly pathetic. I suggest you get off your knees and stop regurgitating everything the dear party spews into your mouth and actually try to think for yourself. Until then, adios mi amigo. You don’t deserve another second of my time.

              2. Houston,
                Lets be fair here. You are right Newsome is an immoral pos but when it comes to personal immorality he is Trumps twin brother. If you are going to criticize those who defend Newsome you have to be equally critical of those who defend Trump. imho

              3. Houston, earth to Houston, we were talking about campaign contributions, you are the one that went off on a nonsensical, Gavin Newsom tirade (partisan hackery), while I was talking about he bigger picture as to why our political system has been corrupted with money!

                Settle down and focus yourself, dude!

                Again, is it campaign contributions in general that you are railing against, or just campaign contributions from groups you don’t like?

                I’m not sure you even know what the heck you are arguing for. SMH!

                BTW, this “corrupt” D- Gavin Newsom was elected over R- John Cox, in a fricken landslide! What does that say about Cox, lol?

              4. Cmon OC. Whataboutism doesn’t suit you. I’ve made my opinion of Trump very well known on this blog. I can’t stand the guy. He is a true scumbag and I detest many things he’s done in his life. But the grift of Newsom is a much more logical comparison to make when discussing donations to politicians in Santa Clara. The swift reaction and whataboutism when anyone mentions anything about a Democrat is truly nauseating. Newsom is a bad guy. Democrats should own it. You would NEVER see a NeverNewsom movement with Dems like you have with Republicans. You just wouldn’t. And that’s because liberals always put party over country. Its an undeniable fact. Own it.

              5. Then join the progressive movement in getting all of this money, which we know is the driver of corruption, out of our political system. Keeping some kind of scorecard about which campaign contributions are OK, and which aren’t, just isn’t a workable solution.

                And I am not defending Newsom, except to say that for every Democratic politician you think is corrupt, it can be easily countered as an argument against Republicans, because it’s our SYSTEM that breads corruption, and that’s the point you don’t seem to get, Houston. That’s why I find your argument to be … let’s just call it frustrating, at best.

              6. Progressive movement to end corruption, huh. Pardon me for a moment while I vomit. Have you forgotten Hillary Clinton collected literally billions of dollars in contributions to her personal family foundation from foreign countries WHILE she was Sec State? Not even an appearance of corruption there, right?

                Progressives just elected the most racist president since LBJ because they wanted to…. end racism?
                Progressives just elected a DC swamp rat who has been a politician in Washington for nearly 50 years because they wanted…. change?
                Progressives just elected a politician who funneled bribes from Ukraine, Russia, and China through his drug addict son because they wanted… to end corruption?

                I hate to tell you this but you are an imbecile. What’s worse is you are a dishonest imbecile. It’s ok to be partisan. It’s ok to think Democrat policy goals are better than Republican policy goals. An honest disagreement is healthy. In this case you aren’t honest. Spare me the sanctimonious hypocrisy. It’s tiresome and I’m growing extraordinarily weary of you. Go away.

              7. Of course, you can’t expect one party to say no to political contributions (which naturally amounts to political influence), while the other party is taking them hand over fist. That’s why I was taken aback by your original post. Yes, the York family has way too much influence on our political system, but that’s hardly the York’s fault. That’s the way our system works now. You and I have almost no voice now, and no influence, because our political system is all about the big dollars and deep pockets of special interests. That’s the system we have now, and it’s been exacerbated, not by Governor Newsom, but by the conservative Supreme Court ruling (decided along party lines, btw), of Citizens Untied v. FEC, which is proving to be absolutely disastrous for our political system.

                That’s a fact! And that’s my point, a point you seem unable to grasp, because inside your apparent bubble, you can’t seem to see forest through the trees.

              8. And BTW, the truth always comes out. You want to hold yourself up as some kind of independent thinker because you supposedly don’t think highly of DJT, yet as soon as you get irritated (I’ve apparently gotten under your skin), your partisan colors sure come out. You don’t really give a rat’s arse about money in politics, as long as it’s money you agree with … am I right? Do you think that’s somehow a principled position to take? Well it’s not, so you ought to pipe down, and quit wasting our time. Nobody cares if you approve of Newsom’s influence, or Jed’s influence, because you don’t seem to understand the subject at hand.

              9. @49R

                My post was about political donations made by California Teachers Association and Blue Shield. YOU made it about Gavin Newsom. I posted about political donations made to a politician who was born and raised and held office for many years and I’m sure is very well known to CW Nevius. My apologies for not posting about campaign contributions to Ron Desantis in Florida, a state as far as I’m aware CW has never even visited. It’s obvious your knee jerk reaction is to defend any Democrat and defame anyone who criticizes them. It’s really quite comical and unfortunately highly predictable for any “progressive.” You want to pretend progressives are leading the charge to change campaign finance laws while at the same time progressives have elected some of the most corrupt politicians in the history of our country. Your ignorance and hypocrisy would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.

              10. And BTW, fear not – you don’t get under my skin. Counsel for a junior investor changing a deal at the 11th hour because they didn’t calculate the payoff on a mezzanine loan properly causing a waterfall of extra work for everyone else so they can recoup $1k gets under my skin. My daughter calling me ranting about her Greek Lit professor knocking her paper on Medea down a whole letter grade because she failed to follow his instructions on the bibliography formatting gets under my skin. Pete Carroll chomping that gum with his goofy walk on the sidelines while the Seahawks beat the 49ers gets under my skin. Some rando on a 49er blog doesn’t get under my skin. Calling it like I see it even if it hurts your feelings is exactly how everyone in my profession communicates. I’m sure I’ve interacted with bigger morons on this blog than you but I can’t remember when. Just because I tell you that actually doesn’t mean I hold you ill will. You’re just a dishonest hypocrite and I’m compelled to let you know about it.

              11. Houston, if you can’t even answer the most basic question in terms of where you stand in relation to the heart of CW’s article, how is it that you can expect anyone to take you seriously?

                Honestly, I still have no idea where you stand on the issue of campaign contributions, and money in politics (which is the basis of CW’s article), so again, take a deep breath, and answer the obvious question (if you can):

                Is it campaign finance, i.e. campaign contributions, and the related influence “bought” by those contributions that you have a problem with, or is it just the campaign contributions and related influence from folks and organizations which you don’t agree with, that you have a problem with?

                I’m guessing you have no Until you figure out the answer to the question of where you actually stand on the broader issue of campaign finance, everything else is just … as they say in my neck of the woods, circumferential mumbo-jumbo!

              12. I’m the hypocrite? Hah!

                Whose the hypocrite … the guy who has made it clear that he wants to limit the undue influence of money in politics regardless of party affiliation, or the guy who seems to be so thick that he either doesn’t even realize that he’s talking out of both sides of his mouth on an issue … that Citizens United, which is the driver of unregulated campaign finance laws, was brought on by organized groups of conservatives, with the conservative judges on the Supreme Court ruling to allow unbridled political contributions (driven by the fact that money buys influence), in the ridiculous guise of “free speech”, which has essentially drowned out the voices and “free speech” of individual citizens, to the benefit of Super PAC’s, mega-corporations, and organized labor, and their out-sized influence on our political system … or realizes it and simply doesn’t care?

  6. CW, nice article. I could not agree more. If Jed wants to be pro-active and promote diversity, he should promote Bobby Turner to OC, and at least give Kaep a tryout.
    .
    Some one may be up to his eyeballs in lawsuits, so he may not have time to- ‘Fire that SOB’.
    .
    I will question JL’s football acumen, if he thinks Josh Johnson is a superior QB to Kaep. Maybe he is going cheap, but that will produce cheap results. JL would be doing his due diligence, exploring all possibilities, because with this turnstile O line, Mullens and CJB may not make it through the rest of this season. Giving Kaep at least a tryout, would be a bold decisive move. If Kaep fails miserably, so be it. If he still looks like he can play, some team should give him a chance. Expecting to win against New Orleans and Buffalo, may require upgrading the QB position.
    .
    Thank you, you just made my day.

    1. The ganja has rotted your brain cells. You stated that Kap would be signed Nov 4th, it is now Nov 9th, what team signed him? Get over your obsession, Kap isn’t coming back. Promote Bobby Turner because he is black or because he is the best qualified for the job?

      1. I fully admit I was wrong, and it does not upset me in the least, because I was correct about November 3rd.
        .
        That event will set in motion events that will create an avalanche, and bury your hero. He will be too busy suing everyone else, so he will not have time to sue Kaep.
        .
        Promote Bobby Turner? He has only coached for 48 years, so he is amply qualified. He has been an OC, and assistant HC, and has helped coach 2 SB teams. Additionally, it looks like KS needs all the help he can get. He still wasted 2 time outs last game. He really should stop playing OC, and focus on being the HC.
        .
        Jed has pledged to create more diversity in the coaching ranks, but talk is cheap. Concrete actions like promoting Bobby Turner, will speak volumes.

        1. Have you ever thought that Bobby Turner may not want to be an OC?
          – He’s 71 years old, He’s quite likely at a point in his life where he likes what he is doing, can do it in his sleep and doesn’t want the added stress/workload that an OC would have. A modern version of Bobb McKittrick so to say.

          1. Gosh, I suppose a pay raise may be in store, if he is lucky enough to get a promotion. Guess you think he may not want that.
            .
            71 years old, on the side line with Kendrick Bourne. What could possibly go wrong?

            1. see Bobb McKittrick comment… He turned down promotions repeatedly.
              At a certain point pay raises are may not worth the additional responsibility/work…
              Take into account that Peter King is very likely the highest paid rb coach in the NFL, it may well be that they (the Shanahan’s and him) have a mutual understanding.

              1. This is like saying that Kaep does not want to play, with absolutely no proof.
                .
                Bobby Turner makes 650K, but as OC, he could double his salary.
                .
                Guess you want to keep him in his place, because he knows no better. Believe it or not, some black people do have ambitions.
                .
                KS himself questions why there are not more black head coaches, and thinks it unfair. Many head coaches are elevated from the coordinator position. There are very few position coaches who have leapfrogged into a HC role.

              2. “This is like saying that Kaep does not want to play, with absolutely no proof.“
                Speaking of no proof… why are you jumping to the “you must be racist” angle? How much proof do you have that he wants to be the OC?
                My speculation was based on the fact that he’s 71 years old, could do his job in his sleep and may no longer want to put in the crazy extra hours an OC would have to, while not getting the credit because Kyle would be calling the plays on Sunday.
                Your rush to call me a racist says more about your judgemental nature than it does about me being a racist or not.
                For your information, over here in Europe I have witnessed multiple people turn down promotions and their salary increases in order to have a better quality of life. This isn’t a racial thing, it’s priority thing and priorities tend to change with age.
                How much money would you take to barely have time to see your loved ones? Now tell me Is that a racist question?

              3. Kaepernick could play today if he wanted to. Gotta do what the boss tells you though. Can’t expect much more than league minimum for the year, but if you’re so Eucking good you would bet on yourself for a big payday the following year. Why is this so difficult to comprehend? Players do it all the time!

              4. Shoup, he is a RB coach for the San Francisco 49ers. NFL coaches do not mail it in. Usually, they are obsessed with winning, and put in long hours every day. Most coaches dream of becoming a head coach some day, but with many black coaches, even though the league is three quarters black, there are few Coordinators, and less Head Coaches.
                .
                Did I call you a racist? Well, if the shoe fits. Guess I hit too close to home. You certainly are not a racist like Prime, who thinks just because of my Asian ancestry, I cannot be an American, or understand football.
                .
                They already do not see their loved ones enough, because any NFL coach has to put in the long hours. This pandemic is also making it twice as hard to live normally. Maybe he would want to get doubly compensated, because people do want to earn as much as they can. Just because he is black, does not mean he is content to sit in the back of the bus.

              5. Seb,
                I guess you think Bobb McKittrick wasn’t worthy of an NFL coach.

                Did I call you a racist?
                Hmmm I wonder where I got that idea.
                Your words were
                “Guess you want to keep him in his place, because he knows no better. Believe it or not, some black people do have ambitions.”

                You are the one who interjected race, and made a judemental statement… hmm what groups do things like that??? You could fit right in.

                Now if you are done being a holier than thou ahole and want to get back on topic, the Shanahan’s have promoted Bobby Turner to an Assistant HC in the past along with RB coach… so I would assume they don’t have a problem with giving him control.

              6. When are people gonna learn that Seb is a cancer on here. He argues the same old tired points. How many times have we heard about Kap, Shanny needs an OC, blows timeouts, “guess you are saying… this or that. I guess you are a racist or a bully.

              7. Techy, techy techy, I am implying you are stereotyping black people, but you were the one to run to the ‘Racist’ card.
                .
                If you have such thin skin, do not post here. We can be pretty brutal.
                .
                Assuming Bobb McKittrick is the shining example, just does not take into consideration everything that went on. He spent 21 years coaching only the offensive line, and had no experience as OC or Asst HC. Bobby Turner does have OC and Asst HC experience. Bobb McKittrick was a fixture in those Glory Years, having been OL Coach for all 5. He was happy where he was, and liked the organization so much, he did not want to leave the Bay Area. That happens.
                .
                Yes, Bobby Turner and KS have an understanding, since Bobby Turner was recruited by KS. He can live with the situation, because that is what he is doing, but maybe he could help them finally achieve greatness as the OC. KS, being selfish, wants all the power, but delegating authority is part of the HC job. You, or no other person, has ever explained how having an OC would hurt the team.
                .
                No, I do not think you are a flaming racist like prime, but maybe you should try to become better educated. Black people want advancement and success, just as much as white people. It is a human condition.

                I am assuming that most people want to get promotions to make more money. They gladly take on more responsibility, for the bigger paycheck. You are accusing me of assuming things with absolutely no proof, but I can say the same thing about you. If Jed York promoted Bobby Turner to OC, do you really think he would turn that down?
                .
                To those who assume Bobby Turner is not qualified to be OC, all I can say is that he was an OC and Asst Head Coach before. He is amply qualified, and his almost half century of coaching gives him more experience than almost every other coach in America.
                .
                Jed, do the right thing, because then, you will be doing everything in your power to win. Let KS still call plays, but let Bobby Turner help with game management.

              8. Seb,
                I never spoke regarding any group of people only speculated regarding one man’s reasoning and you went on to attack my personal character.
                But since you want to do this… Please what remarks have I made regarding any group of people that would Play to your narrative that I think “they” should be kept in their place.
                I’ll wait.
                After you’re done perhaps I can start going through your quotes where you rush to judge people…

                I wonder how that would turn out.

              9. It’s alright Shoup, and if I hurt your feelings, I apologize.
                .
                This site has gone bonkers lately, so please understand where I am coming from.
                .
                Maybe it was addressed more to ‘Disgusted’, than you.

              10. Well there’s a new low. Make a baseless accusation of someone being racist, then tell that person they are being “tetchy” and “thin skinned” for taking exception to being called racist (while absolving themselves of any responsibility or wrong doing for offending by saying it is par for the course on this blog), and then offer an apology only if the person they offended “had their feelings hurt”. Not an apology because they were wrong or at fault, which they clearly were. Classy.

              11. ‘Guess you want to keep him in his place, because he knows no better. believe it or not, some black people do have ambitions.’
                .
                That is what I wrote, but Shoup starts whining and crying I called him a racist. HE is the one who brought that up, not me. I did not throw out the race card, he did.
                .
                In an attempt to keep a civil conversation, I apologized. The classy thing to do is accept it, and move on, but you had to interject with your own snark. So classy. You allow posters to insult me backwards and forwards with expletives, invective and hate, without a peep, but I post one thing that I apologized for, and you just cannot help yourself. Talk about being thin skinned, too. I thought we agreed to leave each other alone, but if you want to snark at me, expect the same thing back.

              12. I did not throw out the race card, he did.

                ‘Guess you want to keep him in his place, because he knows no better. believe it or not, some black people do have ambitions.’

                Yeah, that is NOT playing the race card because it is very obviously brought up before this ;). And it’s obvious your “apology” was sincere ;).

                So I’ll just call it a day, assuming you are like a typical closet biggot and you will go on accusing everyone else of making racist judgments. I’m done with this conversation.

              13. Shoup, I am glad you are wising up. Some try to talk me down, but realize it is an exercise in futility.
                .
                ‘Have you ever thought that Bobby Turner may not want to be an OC?’ That is like saying- Maybe BT does not want to win a SB. Maybe he does not want the doubling of salary, and added prestige. I do not buy that for a minute. He could still be OC, and let KS call the plays.
                .
                Sure, you may not see the dog whistle in that statement, but I do. So now we all know who the real closet bigot is.
                .
                Actually, it is Prime, with his racist tendencies, violent threats and expletive laden insults. He is the real cancer on this site, and sure does not seem to be a 49er fan. He wants to make it twice as hard to win, thinks teams will lay a 40 burger on the Niners, and now has gone into full tank mode, because he does not hink they will win another game. He wants them ‘Rewarded’ with the 5th pick. I want the Niners to pick last every year.

              14. Turner has been the RBs coach for the Shanahan’s for 25 years, followed them to every new team they went to, and is one of the highest paid position coaches in the NFL, but we are meant to believe that all this time he has secretly harbored a desire to be OC? Sounds legit.

              15. Seb, although I have never met him, tried to a couple years ago at Union Square, but he was terrified for some reason, is the guy in the crowd who chirps the players from the stands, but when confronted, runs out the corridor.
                You know that guy? That is him. A little annoying chirper!

        2. My hero? If you are speaking of Trump he is no hero of mine. The best thing he accomplished was keeping the Clinton grifters and their Arkansas Mafia out of the White House. Shanahan doesn’t want an OC so give it up. You want Turner promoted because he is Black, if he is promoted I want it to be based on merit alone. It amazes me how much you seem to think you know about football.

          1. ‘KS does not want an OC so give it up.’
            .
            Those who do not learn from their mistakes, are doomed to repeat them. KS imploded against the Pats in the SB. He had a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter, and lost to the Chiefs in this last SB. Guess you are content to lose, AGAIN.
            .
            Since you want to sound smart, tell me how having an OC would hurt the 49ers. Hurt KS’s feelings? I am beyond that. KS wants to play OC, and forgets what a HC needs to focus on. I get disgusted to see KS, in the heat of battle, staring at his play sheet, when he should be working more on his game management.

            1. Its called delegation. Shanny has assistant coaches, maybe you are just saying they are not capable. Maybe you don’t think Bobby Turner, Mike Lafleur, Mike McDaniel are capable without a tittle.

              1. Maybe there needs to be a set hierarchy. KS is not delegating authority by keeping the OC job, and his lack of game management is glaring. Last game, he still could not get them to get a play off before the clock expired, so he had to waste 2 time outs. When behind, that is a recipe for disaster. If Bill Belichick sees the need to have an OC, maybe KS should not think he is smarter than Bill Belichick.
                .
                No, YA Tittle has been dead for years.

              2. Looks like Belicheck was a product of Tom Brady as he doesnt seem to be that good of a coach without talent. Funny how that works.

                “KS is not delegating authority by keeping the OC job, and his lack of game management is glaring. Last game, he still could not get them to get a play off before the clock expired, so he had to waste 2 time outs”

                Did you see how many new starters they had? On a short week? Wake up man! Dumbest guy on the blog right there!

              3. Good coaching can overcome a lack of talent, but bad coaching loses all the time.
                .
                This is the NFL, they should be able to get a play off in time.
                .
                Of course, you want to make it twice as hard to win, so you must be giddy with delight.
                .
                Yes, I am expecting basic competency, but you must realize that the players were not prepared because the coaches did not focus on the important things, like minimizing mistakes.

                .
                Maybe you did not read this in your Football for Dummies, but wasting time outs is not a wise strategy. That is all on KS, not the players.

              4. Seb, go to the mirror and punch yourself in the face a few times.
                Maybe that will knock some sense into you!

          1. You seem to be assuming that a coach that has been an OC and Asst HC with 48 years of experience, is not qualified for an OC position. He has helped coach 2 SB winning teams, so he knows how to win. Bobby Turner would not be promoted to be the OC just because of the color of his skin, which is what you are certainly stating.
            .
            Another thin skinned poster on this site? Omigosh, please grow up.

            1. I said he should get the job if he is the best qualified. How is that racist? You want him promoted based on race, that makes you the racist.

              1. No, I want to redress past injustices. Blacks have historically been unfairly excluded from the top tier coaching jobs. With a league that is three quarters minority, there is the coaching that is 80% white. Jed York and KS themselves have decried the lack of black coaches, and have both pledged to work towards more diversity in the league. They want to continue Bill Walsh’s legacy, which is a noble thing to do.
                .
                Well, actions speak louder than words. They have an opportunity to demonstrate their commitment towards a more just and fair system. Diversity is good. Lack of diversity is bad.
                .
                You seem to think that I want Bobby Turner to become OC just because he is black. You are so wrong because he is eminently qualified. Do you think because he is black, he does not deserve to be OC? That is racist.
                .
                So now you think I am a racist? Project much? I believe in equality and justice for all. Do you?

              2. I believe in equality for all and have continued to tell you that. I have no problem with the color of anyone’s skin and never have. It is you who continues to bring up race and nobody else. I don’t care about the color of skin of any Coach, GM or owner. Everything is about race with you, that makes you a racist. You just don’t get it and never will. By the way, you seem to be the crybaby, always whining about how people call you names.

              3. You really do not know the definition of a racist. A racist considers his race as the superior one, and that all others are inferior. I believe I am the exact opposite. I am race conscious, and see race relations in totality, factoring in past history. I hold that these truths to be self evident, that all men (and women) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A racist does not believe in that.
                .
                I bring up race to help redress past injustices. A racist does not want that to happen, and wants to ignore the problem, to perpetuate more racism. You accuse me of being the only one on this site to bring up race? You obviously do not read much.
                .
                Accusing me of being a racist, exposes your own lack of character, and failure to evolve.
                .
                I did not bring up the name calling and boorish behavior, until others in the peanut gallery started to whine and cry. If I had become all bent out of shape about the snark, I would have left a long time ago. However, I am a big boy, and name calling says way more about them, than it does me. I endure a lot of hate, but even Grant marveled at my rhinoceros hide.
                .
                Maybe you should show a little class by at least acknowledging that Bobby Turner is qualified to be an OC.

            2. I don’t care what color he is if he is the best qualified. You are the one who keeps bringing up color therefore you are the racist. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

              1. Disgusting, of course it is about race. Promoting diversity is all about race, so we cannot talk about it without mentioning race. Crybabies like you whine and cry when taboo subjects come up, but CW just posted about Kaep, and race has a lot to do with that, too. Just like posters who hated anyone talking about Kaep in a positive light, talking about diversity is about as popular to some, as talking about homophobia in the NFL.
                .
                Your declaration that only the best will do, conveniently implies that black candidates are inferior, so they could not possibly be the best. Just like pundits declaring that Kaep is a bad QB, so he could not possibly get a tryout
                .
                It is a dog whistle, and your name is apt.
                .
                Relating this back towards football, I do think Bobby Turner is the best qualified for the position. He is already part of the staff and has coached for years with not only KS, but his father Mike, too.
                .
                In fact, maybe KS should lean more towards Bobby Turner and his expertise. Bobby Turner also recently coached in 2 SBs. He helped his team build up a lead, only to see KS abandon the run, and throw the game away. Maybe if he had listened more to Bobby Turner, KS would have kept running the ball, and could have won 2 SBs. Bobby Turner as OC could possibly stop KS from abandoning the run. So no, I am not advocating for Bobby Turner, just because he is black. I think he could help the Niners achieve greatness.
                .
                KS is the one holding him back. KS is the HC of the San Francisco 49ers. He is already top dog. Holding the OC title, or ‘Tittle’, a Prime writes, is just being selfish. Bill Walsh advocated for promotions, because he himself was held back for so many years, and was supremely frustrated. His minority mentorship program was a shining example for all to emulate. KS seems to want to keep anyone he can, so they can’t advance in their career. KS should realize that it is a feather in his cap, to see his assistants getting job promotions in the league.
                .
                Looking at the Seahawk game, Pete was not fooled at all, so KS’s game plan stunk. This Packers game was ugly, but the Covid 19 protocols have ravaged the team, so I am not as upset about that loss, His lack of game management just screams for improvement, and an OC could easily and wisely solve that deficiency. That could be put in his job description, while also letting KS call the plays. In this upcoming game, the Niners only chance is to play disciplined and focused, with no mistakes. Wasting 2 time outs will just doom them to failure.
                .
                Well obviously, KS could promote his running game coordinator or passing game coordinator, but they are young and relatively inexperienced, especially considering Bobby Turner’s resume. In the future, Daniels and LaFleur will advance, and LaFleur should have been allowed to go to his brother’s team.
                .
                Jed should stop being cheap, and hire Bobby Turner as OC. If Jed wants to advocate for more diversity, this is a golden opportunity for him to show positive leadership. Yes, it would be a good PR move, but more importantly, it would help them win. Looking at this season, KS needs all the help he can get.

  7. 6. Zach Wilson, QB, BYU (6-2, 212)*
    The story of the NFL Draft process thus far has been the ascension of Wilson. The competition on BYU’s schedule doesn’t get evaluators excited, but his library of throws, which I wrote about in October, is why he is in the top-10 conversation. His outstanding instincts, arm talent and accuracy have NFL teams buzzing. Some around the league believe he could go higher than sixth.

    Wow. Seems Wilson is now a pipe dream.

      1. I just wanted to see him in the scarlet and gold, but to your point; some need more proof but for mine, I’ve seen all I need to take him 12th overall. Balling out against topflight competition will all but guarantee we’d have to give up a Louis XIV of France type ransom to get him….

        1. The 49ers will end up drafting late teens/early 20s. No hope of getting Wilson or any other big time guy 49er fans have circled on their draft wish list. My prediction is the 49ers will select either Brock Purdy or Tanner Morgan in the 4-6 rounds. Neither will ever be anything other than a backup in the NFL but Shanalynch will come out on draft day and say he was the #1 QB on their board.

              1. We will need more than that Razor. Saleh hasn’t shown the ability to devise a scheme to the personnel at his disposal. He hasn’t been able to generate a pass rush and he still hasn’t been able to contain the mobile QB, AND stop giving up the explosive plays.

                For us to win we need a near perfect coaching performance by Shanny and Saleh. Shanny has shown he can do it, Saleh not so much.

                4-12 and the 5th overall pick in the draft.

              2. If the QB isnt there, trade down and trade down again. Leave day 2 with a starting corner, OT, and pass rusher, OG.
                The good news is we will be the best 4-12 in NFL history!

              3. Who are the other 2 teams besides Dallas and Washington?

                49ers could win any of the next 7 games. And yes, I am including the upcoming game against the Saints. This game is a classic letdown game for the Saints after coming off a huge division win blowout against the Bucs. I don’t expect the 49ers to win this Sunday because it’s a payback game for the Saints after the game last year but the 49ers could absolutely beat the Saints. Saints have played poorly this year and it’s hard for a team to achieve consistency beginning in week 9. So if you ask me what games the 49ers win here is my prediction:

                Saints – Loss
                Rams – Win
                Bills – Loss
                Redskins – Win
                Cowboys – Win
                Cardinals – Loss
                Seahawks – Win

              4. Rodgers shredded this defense and so will Brees.
                No way we sweep the Rams.
                Can’t beat Wilson with the type of defense Saleh is calling.

              5. Maybe you’re right. Who knows. Rams are winning games with smoke and mirrors. IMO the 49er roster is superior to the Rams roster so I think we win that game even with Mullens as the starter. Maybe starters rest in the final game so the Seahawks can heal. Maybe the 49ers starters come back for that game and Jimmy isn’t playing on 1 leg. I also think the 49ers can beat the Bills. Unlikely but it can happen. 8-8 and I’m sticking with that prediction.

              6. Houston are you forgetting how shi$$y Mullen’s is?
                Even with Deebo, Aiuyuk and maybe Mostert this week, he cannot string more than 5 completions in a row!
                The guy will be stunned against NO’s who has a pretty good secondary.

              7. Well then Mullens shouldn’t be on the roster. Shanny is a good coach. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.

              8. I don’t think I can watch another quarter of either Mullen’s or Beathard. I’d almost like to see JJ get in so we can solidify a top 5 pick.
                No one hates losing more than me but this year was over after Bosa and Ford and Jimmy G went down.
                You can’t win many games in the NFL without a QB and a pass rush.

                Shanny is a great coach but he can’t walk on water.

              9. Mullens had no chance against GB. No receivers or LT. What do you expect? He’s probably not a starter in the NFL but he’s a great backup who can win you a couple of games if the team around him is strong.

              10. Not sure why this got censored but after the Green Bay game I tried to post but the moderator rejected it:

                Shanny continuing to trot out Mullens behind that o-line showed Shanny cares more about CJ Beathard than Nick Mullens. Putting Mullens behind that o-line and continuing to call plays with 5 and 7 step drops was straight up abusive. It was like Mullens was Michael Spinks to Shanny’s Mike Tyson. Not sure why Shanny hates Mullens but if were Nick Mullens Dad I’d be waiting at Kyle Shanahans door after that game. That was awful.

              11. Beathard has taken his share of abuse so I don’t feel sorry for Mullens. Wouldn’t surprise me if neither is on the roster next year….

              12. Oh geesh, slow your roll, guys. Just because Wilson is currently trending, doesn’t mean he’s going to be a top 20 pick by the time May 1st, 2021 comes along.

                I’d say there is still a very good chance that Zach Wilson will remain a viable draft option for the 49ers. He’s still undersized, still playing against weak competition, and still coming off of a very lackluster 2019 West Coast Conference college campaign.

              13. I believe you Razor, I don’t always agree with you, but I don’t question your knowledge of draft prospects because I’ve known over the years that you do your homework well.

                I just think everyone is getting ahead of themselves with the Zach Wislon hype. I’m not saying he can’t end up as a top 10 prospect, I just think it’s a little early to assume he will be. In fact, when you take the totality of his college career as a body of work, it’s hard to argue that he’s a sure fire, blue chip talent. I think there is a pretty good chance that he comes back to earth as he faces stronger competition, and by the time we get to 5/2021, there are likely to be a handful of QB prospects ranked ahead of him.

                There’s a lot to like, but he is undersized, and his first 2 seasons at BYU were underwhelming at best. Generally speaking, undersized QB without overwhelming athleticism (he’s no Jackson, Watson, or Murray), with average-to-slightly-above-average arm strength, and only one strong statistical season (out of 3), generally don’t end up being drafted top 20. That’s all I am saying. Razor.

                I will be watching him closely, along with Trey Lance, Jamie Newman, and Kenny Pickett, to name a few.

              14. In fact Razor, if you like Zach Wilson this much, I’ll have to dig a little deeper on the kid. He’s clearly broken out this season. I’d be curious to compare his 2020 film with his modest sophomore season, which looks like this (Zach Wilson – 2019 Season): 62.4% Comp, 7.5 AVG, 11 TD’s, 9 INT’s.

              15. 49Reasons, the way Wilson has played this season he will be a top 10 pick unless he falls flat on his face in his remaining games, or he has some medical/ background issue people aren’t aware of atm.

                He is a true junior that has been starting since his freshman year. His 2019 stat line wasn’t amazing, but he was injured (coming off shoulder surgery and then broke his hand) and even then he played well enough as a freshman and his sophomore year to be a guy that was known to be on teams watchlist for 2020 with quite a bit of buzz already. Don’t need to do too much googling to see this is true. The idea he has come out of nowhere is a myth.

              16. That could be right Scooter, he’s certainly on fire right now, and we all know that college QB’s with NFL viability, tend to be drafted higher than they likely should be. I mean, if Daniel Jones was a top 10 pick, why not Zach Wilson, right? His draft stock is definitely skyrocketing at the moment.

                On the other hand, he actually does have an injury history, doesn’t he? Shoulder injuries? I believe he has already had one surgery on his throwing shoulder. And if his season last year is any indication, he could very well come back to earth. Who have BYU played besides #21 Boise St? I mean, Louisiana Tech, Troy, Navy, Texas State, Western Kentucky? Not exactly murderer’s row, you know what I am saying.

                With his history and what I’ve seen so far, I like what I’ve seen this season, but I also think there is a lot of risk in taking him with a top 10 draft pick, at least at this point, IMO. Maybe I’ll have a different view if he wins a bowl game (he really laid an egg in last season’s bowl game VS Hawaii, 24-40, 0 TD’s, 2 INT’s)

              17. Oh yah, sorry I forgot that you mentioned the injuries, Scooter.

                By the way, don’t get me wrong … I think he’s a talented kid, no doubt about that. Does he have what it takes at the next level? Maybe. He’s certainly not a scrub. But yah, he kind of did come out of nowhere. I don’t remember anyone talking about him as a potential 1st round pick last season. Am I wrong about that, Scooter?

                I’d certainly hope the Niners would entertain the prospect of drafting him if he drops to them in round one, which I think very well could happen.

              18. He wasn’t being discussed in the same breath as Lawrence, Fields or Lance at the start of the year, but he was well known already and a guy that was discussed as someone that could rise. He’s been on the radar since he impressed as a freshman.

              19. I’ll take your word for it Scooter. It sounds like you know a lot about him and are buying in on the hype. Am I correct in assuming you would like the 49ers to consider drafting him, but that they would likely have to trade up in round one in order to draft him?

                Any thoughts on QB Kenny Pickett – Pitt Panthers?

              20. I’ve spent a bit of time over the past couple of weeks looking into him. I’m not much a QB scout, but yeah, I like the look of him and I do believe he likely ends up going quite high. If Shanahan likes him I am comfortable with them moving up to get him.

                I haven’t looked at Pickett, so no thoughts on him.

              21. Long ways to go before the draft, but right now, I’m leaning more in the direction of taking a QB on day 2, rather than the risk and draft capitol it might take to trade up in round 1 for Wilson or Lance, especially if there is a QB prospect whom Kyle believes capable of taking the reigns sooner rather than later.

                One of the day 2 prospects I have my eyes on at the moment, is Pitt Panthers senior QB Kenny Pickett, who certainly showed flashes early in his college career, while also being erratic, has really developed into a legitimate NFL prospect (IMO), and seems like a very good fit for Kyle’s system, as he’s well versed in a pro-style system that does a lot of the same stuff that Kyle likes to do.

                https://www.profootballnetwork.com/pitt-qb-kenny-pickett-serious-qb4-candidate-nfl-draft/

              22. Th e Niners might have enough draft capital to trade back into the 1st after their selection which will be probably 12-18, but to move into the top 5 might be too much.
                Especially when the next 2 drafts the focus has to be rebuilding the secondary and offensive line.
                Kyle Trask, or Mac Jones in the 2nd or 3rd round and keep Jimmy G on restructured 2 year deal.

              23. And I don’t like Trask as a fit for the 49ers, and I certainly don’t like him or Jones as 1st round picks. I’d also rather have another team take the risk of Fields’ boom or bust potential.

                Right now there are only 3 QB’s I’d draft in round 1 if I were ShanaLynch: Lawrence (obviously), Lance, and Wilson.

  8. So I’m going to pat myself on the back now… I called it on Saturday. Said I was thinking of taking the Panthers to cover +10 against the Chiefs and the Jets to cover +10 against the Patriots. Both teams covered. Too risky to me to bet on such dregs as the Panthers and Jets so I only made a pizza bet. It’ll cover a night out with the wife for dinner and drinks this weekend so today is a good day.

    I’m also going to call it now. If the Jets hold on to the #1 draft slot and pick Trevor Lawrence they will be in the playoffs and actually a good team within 3 years. Need to get rid of Gase but they actually have some decent players on that team. They have the foundation for a good o-line next year. In 2022, the AFC East will be the best division in football. Whomever wins that division will win the Superbowl.

  9. Guys I totally screwed up. I meant to buy stock in pharmaceutical giant Pfizer but accidentally bought stock in Pfizer Total Landscaping and Sex Shoppe. Does anyone know how to undo a stock trade ? LOL.

    The good guys always win. And a life long whiney b!tch continues to be just that.

    1. Does anyone know how to undo a stock trade ?

      Anything total landscaping and sex shoppe is definitely a buy, at least a hold, right now.

    1. I like the stadium a lot, but I would like to see modifications to Levi’s Stadium. No roof, but some kind of sun-shade overhang (perhaps similar in style to CenturyLink Field), while making the stadium much louder by closing up the two large openings at Gate A and Gate C.

  10. Looking past this season at the draft, the Niners have many needs.
    .
    Maybe the best strategy would be to trade back and get as many second and third round picks as possible.
    .
    With Bosa out and Ford maybe not returning, they may draft another D lineman again. With Richberg out, they need a center. No CB is under contract next season, so a CB may be a huge need. Trent Williams may leave for greener pastures. I had hoped he would be happy here, competing for a SB, but he may see the Niners as a rebuilding team, and want go to a serious contender. I had hoped he would take a home team discount, but many teams with more cap space, will throw money at him.
    .
    Hmm some one predicted Oweh may be the Niner selection. I hope Greg Rousseau could fall into their lap. If Trent Williams leaves, Samuel Cosmi may be an adequate replacement.

  11. From Matt Miller of Bleacher Report:

    —Speaking of quarterbacks, rumors around the scouting community indicate the San Francisco 49ers are investing serious time and resources into scouting signal-callers. One area scout told me the team has sent top evaluator Adam Peters to see BYU’s Zach Wilson and Alabama’s Mac Jones this season.

    Not a surprise, but puts some substance to the speculation. No doubt Notanexpert will have a reason we should dismiss this as well.

      1. I am actually interested to see whether the 49ers will look to trade up for a QB, depending on how the draft lines up. I think to get one of the top 4 QBs you’ll need to pick in single digits unless some of the teams that need a QB look to a vet option.

        1. Tend to agree. I was having this same discussion with Houston. If we finish no better than 6-10 we should be drafting in that 10-12 range. A team like the Bengals could be a potential trade partner, given they don’t need a quarterback.

          Prime, I can vouch for Wilson but I’m not sticking my neck out for Jones!😎

          1. Yeah. The problem the 49ers are likely to find themselves in is that there will be quite a few teams likely finishing with worse or similar records that will be in the QB market. Might make it difficult to get one of the top guys. Going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.

      2. Raz,
        Maybe Zac Wilson becomes the 2nd BayArea “Baby-face assassin after Stephen Curry.
        If Wilson is the player Shanahan and Lynch target in the draft, I’d be ok with that.

        But the thing with Wilson racking up stats and getting national attention leads me to believe that he will likely be a top 10 draft pick. For the 49ers to put themselves in the top 10 category they probably need to lose another 5-6 games.

        If they finish 8-8 that might hurt their chances at drafting Wilson, unless they can make a sweet deal.
        And of course, I wouldn’t count out Lynch in making one.

    1. What is there to dismiss Scooter McG? Rumors circulating around the scouting community are quite common and it would not be surprising if the 49ers are looking at QB’s. They have one who is a restricted FA and another who is a UFA, so it would make sense for them to draft one. They wouldn’t take one with their first pick in my opinion but after that they could be looking for sure. As I said today on the previous topic board however, I will bet any of you who have bought into this silly theory of them trading or cutting Garoppolo, that not only will JG be back, he’ll be back at his full cap charge unless they sign him to an extension. Doesn’t have to be money, just a tag line or something that the winner gets to pick for the loser.

      1. If they were just after a backup to JG would they invest “serious time and resources” to scouting QBs? Sounds more like they are looking at drafting a guy that could be their long term starter, whether that be as soon as next year or some time in the future.

        I’m not going to bet anything re JG. I’m certainly not dismissing the idea he will be back as the starter next year nor that he will be on his existing contract. I am not part of the 49ers FO so can’t tell you what they are thinking, just what their actions suggest. And based on their actions, as well as salary cap situation, I think there is a very reasonable chance this is his last season as a 49er.

        1. What constitutes serious time and resources? They are doing that for the draft period. There is nothing to suggest they are treating the QB position any differently than another. Trading or cutting a QB who is less than a year removed from taking his team to the SB is not reasonable. Successful teams do not make decisions that downgrade the QB position in order to create cap room. They also don’t overreact to a couple of poor performances while the QB is playing through an injury and disregard the fact he is the only QB they’ve won with. Those are the opinions of fans and people who want drama to write/talk about.

          1. Right. Matt Miller chose to write about it because the amount of time and resources they were putting into scouting QBs wasn’t anything noteworthy or out of the ordinary. Makes sense.

            Your argument re JG is entirely based on an idea that they were very happy with what they got from him in 2019. Maybe they were, but I have laid out the reasons I suspect that might not have been the case previously. I know I’m not going to convince you of those reasons, but your continued suggestion I am just being emotional or overreacting is tiresome and off base. There are good reasons to believe the FO weren’t as sold on JG as you think they were after last season.

            1. Scooter, let me just say if they sent Adam Peters personally to scout Wilson/Jones, they are serious as a heart attack and twice as deadly….

              1. The way Miller wrote it sounded to me like those aren’t the only guys they have been scouting and those were the just the two they knew for certain Peters had scouted personally.

            2. You called for him to be traded possibly before the deadline and you hadn’t even watched the famn game yet. You then suggested going with Mullens and a rookie without any idea who that would be. You can deny it all you want but that was fan emotional overreaction without a doubt.

              1. I said I wouldn’t be surprised if he was traded before the deadline. I didn’t call for it to happen. I clearly wasn’t basing it on his performance in that game – as you noted I hadn’t even watched it at that point. The rationale was simple – the cap savings would have been huge. Not only getting the cap saving from next year, but also half his salary from this year which could carry over. I have explained ad nauseum my rationale, and why I thought it could be a possibility. Not a likely thing to happen at that time, but a possibility. You are basically just calling me a liar by saying it was an overreaction, and to a game I hadn’t even seen. And have been calling me a liar ever since. Strange given I laid out a lot of my thoughts on this topic before the season. Maybe I was overreacting to his performance this season then too, in anticipation of what was to come.

                And yeah, I think the team will try very hard to draft a QB high next year as the future starter. No, I don’t know who they will target or what their chances of landing the guy they want will be. We are halfway through the season. I have no way of knowing even when the team will draft. I’m not Nostradamus.

              2. Haven’t had a chance to watch the game, so only basing this on what I have read, but I think that might be it for JG in terms of being the QB for the 49ers beyond this season. Going to be hard for him to win Shanahan’s trust back over the next 8 games. I wouldn’t even be surprised if he gets traded before the deadline just to free up cap space heading into next year, and certainly wouldn’t be surprised if he loses the starting job to Mullens for next week.

                A shame, as he has ability, but just too inconsistent and he has looked off all season bar that 1st quarter against the Jets.

                You are clearly basing a lot of your opinion on how he’s looked playing through an injury. That is overreaction. I don’t know what you said in the offseason but if you truly believed this was a make or break season after what he did last year, your opinion didn’t make a lot of sense from the start. The guy was a top ten QB who led his team to the SB. The only thing people had to criticize him about was Shanahan not letting him throw in a game they were destroying GB on the ground and had zero reason to throw, and his play during the last 10 mins of the SB. To consider him on the bubble or having to prove himself to last beyond this season is irrational and is a true hot take without any logic at all. Garoppolo is not perfect, but he wins and that is something we haven’t seen around here with regularity over an extended period of time since Steve Young was playing. Media types throwing this stuff around for attention I understand. 49er fans who have been through some terrible years with a revolving door of QB’s I don’t. Unless they get a vet like Rodgers, which isn’t happening, there is no sound argument to be made to move on from Garoppolo.

              3. So we are blaming injury on his inconsistency in 2019 too? And on how he played week 1?

                “The only thing people had to criticize him about was Shanahan not letting him throw in a game they were destroying GB on the ground and had zero reason to throw, and his play during the last 10 mins of the SB.”

                No, it isn’t. He was inconsistent all year in 2019. He made a lot of dumb throws all season. Had lots of turnovers, and even more turnover worthy plays that he got lucky on. He also made some great plays, but he was inconsistent and his decision-making is right to be questioned from what he has shown when healthy. He also played awfully against the Vikings the first week of the playoffs, btw, which I see you left off.

                There was a lot of talk towards the back end of the season and after the SB that Shanahan’s trust in JG to run his offense the way he wants it run was waning. A lot of it was just fan raging, but there was also chatter from people in the NFL citing some level of insider knowledge. At first I didn’t give it credence, but as the off season went on and they chose not to restructure JG’s contract to free up cap space but rather leave it as effectively a series of one year deals, despite his contract being by far the easiest to free up cap space, I came to the conclusion there was some truth to the rumours.

                You disagree, that is fine, but you keep arguing against what I say on a basis that everything I am saying is based on his play this year while injured, which it is not. Your constant insinuations otherwise are quite frankly insulting. Disagree with me if you like, I have no issue with that and actually encourage it as I am happy to be wrong and discuss/ argue in a reasonable manner. But not a fan of people calling me a liar or openly refusing to accept their interpretation of what I say may be incorrect when I have very clearly outlined now what I actually said and meant.

              4. So we are blaming injury on his inconsistency in 2019 too? And on how he played week 1?

                He played really well in 2019. Top ten/Top 5 in most categories. Inconsistency is part of the growing process when you haven’t started a full seasons worth of games. He also played well enough to win in week one this season even with some poor throws. They didn’t lose because of QB play.

                No, it isn’t. He was inconsistent all year in 2019. He made a lot of dumb throws all season. Had lots of turnovers, and even more turnover worthy plays that he got lucky on. He also made some great plays, but he was inconsistent and his decision-making is right to be questioned from what he has shown when healthy. He also played awfully against the Vikings the first week of the playoffs, btw, which I see you left off.

                You must realize you could do this little exercise with every QB in the league and come up with a lowlight real of bad decisions and almost disasters right? Again he hadn’t started even one full seasons worth of games and he wasn’t inconsistent all year. The second half of the season, final 9 games to be exact, he played really well and was a big reason they won most of those games. Saying he played “awfully” against the Vikings is yet another overreact which is a constant with you it seems. He led them on TD drives two out of the first 3 possessions, threw a bad pick then came back and led them on another scoring drive to start the second half before Cousins threw a pick and let them take an insurmountable lead. He certainly wasn’t great, but he wasn’t awful either and contrary to popular opinion Shanahan did not immediately stop letting him throw the ball after the pick. He stopped throwing after the Cousins pick and the subsequent drive in which they ran it down the Vikings throats to go up by two scores.

                There was a lot of talk towards the back end of the season and after the SB that Shanahan’s trust in JG to run his offense the way he wants it run was waning. A lot of it was just fan raging, but there was also chatter from people in the NFL citing some level of insider knowledge. At first I didn’t give it credence, but as the off season went on and they chose not to restructure JG’s contract to free up cap space but rather leave it as effectively a series of one year deals, despite his contract being by far the easiest to free up cap space, I came to the conclusion there was some truth to the rumours.

                It was pretty much all fan raging and one of the guys who has closest access to what the team is doing – Mike Silver – said Garoppolo was the perfect guy to run Shanahan’s offense immediately after the season concluded. All you have to do is watch how he played against the Saints and Seahawks in must win games to see it was a lot of chatter that didn’t make much sense. You are entitled to your opinion but basing it on what the team is doing in regards to the salary cap instead of what is happening on the field is trying too hard to read between the lines rather than looking at what happened on the field each week.

                You disagree, that is fine, but you keep arguing against what I say on a basis that everything I am saying is based on his play this year while injured, which it is not. Your constant insinuations otherwise are quite frankly insulting. Disagree with me if you like, I have no issue with that and actually encourage it as I am happy to be wrong and discuss/ argue in a reasonable manner. But not a fan of people calling me a liar or openly refusing to accept their interpretation of what I say may be incorrect when I have very clearly outlined now what I actually said and meant.

                I have not called you a liar and have used your own words to make the case against you. You clearly said Garoppolo has looked off all season except for the Jets game which implies you are basing at least some of your opinion on how he’s looked playing through an injury. If you want to dispute that ok but that’s how it reads.

                One last thing I’ll leave you with, fans seem to be blinded when it comes to their own teams both positively and negatively, especially when it comes to QB play. I know a lot of Dallas fans who want to get rid of Dak when it makes no sense from an outside perspective. Wentz has struggled and missed a number of games is his young career and I don’t see him being labelled as a guy the Eagles should move on from because his cap number is too high. Looking at last season, DeShaun Watson put up the exact same type of numbers Garoppolo did with fewer wins and he was rewarded with a massive extension. It’s all about perception and the name being talked about. Garoppolo hasn’t earned the cred these other guys have even though he’s performed just as well and won more games. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to be suggesting a team part with one of these other guys does it?

              5. I agree with a lot of what you say here regarding other QBs and other teams, and that JG should be in a similar boat. But as I have tried explaining, I am not as convinced as you are that Shanahan believes in him. If he does then of course he will be the QB next year. But I believe there is reason enough to think Shanahan is less than convinced in JG and what we saw this year, injury or not, did nothing to improve his belief in JG.

              6. Notanexpert,
                The scariest part is when you have that kind of cap space tied up in a guy who’s most proven attribute is his ability to get injured.
                NE- gets injured after a few starts
                SF – comes in works magic
                SF – gets injured after a few games
                SF – healthy. Borderline top 10 QB in the regular season, sputters in the playoffs.
                SF – hurt
                3 out of the 5 years he’s played he’s gotten hurt. That’s a major concern… not knowing if he will suit up or not.

        2. I think they will restructure his deal. Keep it at 2 years, incentive laden and they draft a QB. Not in the 1st, but for sure in rounds 2-3.
          Perfect world:
          Round 1: Sam Cosmi-LT- Texas
          Round 2: Kyle Trask-QB-Florida
          Round 3:TJ Carter-DB-Memphis
          Round 4:Charles Snowden-OLB-Virginia

          1. Maybe you do not know this, but the Niners do not have a third round pick in 2021.
            .
            Better get your facts straight before trying to sound smart, otherwise, the exact opposite result happens, and you sound clueless.

            1. Who is to say they don’t trade back into the 3rd with their 2 picks in the 5th and 7th?
              I guess I have to spell everything out for you.

              1. Now you are advocating bundling picks to move up in the draft?
                .
                Quit parroting me.
                .
                I mention Samuel Cosmi at 10: 30 AM, then you tout him at 6:30 PM. Glad you agree with me.

              2. Yes, Mr Trubusty.
                .
                Of course, you assume a team would want to give up their third round pick for 2 late round picks. No team would be giving away that pick. No TVC would ever justify that trade. Hmm, maybe you are assuming another team is as stupid and gullible as you are. ;p

          2. Sam Cosmi, another local Houston kid. Grew up right down the road from me. Played for former Tx A&M QB, Craig Stump. Stump took over a poor program at Atascocita High School and has been a wildly successful coach there. My boys played against him many times. Cosmi and Trask actually played against each other a few times in youth football. Believe it or not, Cosmi was actually a RB as a kid. I really like the kid and his family. Cosmi is 6’5″ but he has an unusual build for an o-lineman. Doesn’t have the length you’d look for in an NFL tackle. Not super long arms, kind of a compressed torso. IMO, he’s definitely not a tackle in the NFL but he could be a really good Guard. I’d love the pick but not sure you really want to pick a guard that high.

    1. I also like Zach Wilson but I don’t like the word surgery associated with throwing shoulder.
      Plus I like QB’s who play against tough defenses.
      TJ Carter is my draft crush as of today. I think we need to draft at least 2 of them (DB’s)this upcoming draft.

  12. If the 49ers decide to ride with Jimmy G into the future and selected Ja’Marr Chase in the first round of the NFL draft, the 49ers would have the best WR group in the NFL – bar none. Chase, Aiyuk, and Deebo have complimentary skill sets and they are all extremely talented. Heads would explode with that pick and it wouldn’t address the glaring weaknesses in the o-line and secondary but man o man what a WR room. IMO, Chase will be the best WR in the draft but he could drop to the 49ers. Chase is a top 5 talent who will drop to the teens. Everyone is going to overdraft one of those QBs which will help the 49ers.

    1. Houston,
      This is another amazing draft when it comes to wr. Chase, Waddle, Smith and Batemen are all first round talents.
      This is why I’m not sure I would go with Chase should he fall but rather look to trade back a few spots. TBH if I am running SF, unless a qb catches my eye or Fairley or Surtain fall, there is a high likelyhood I drop into the later part of the first if not out of the first altogether.
      Using the additional picks to bolster the Oline, grab a db, and edge rusher on day 2. Of course all of this changes if somehow one of those wr’s falls to day two… at some point you just have to take the best player.

      1. Yeah, definitely. That’s a legit strategy. I’m just saying Chase is better than Ruggs, Jeudy, Lamb, and Justin Jefferson from last year. He’s better than Waddle and Smith this year. I don’t know much about Bateman. A guy with that level of talent may be available in mid to late teens in this draft. I wouldn’t be upset at all if the 49ers took him even though they have more glaring weaknesses at other positions.

        1. I wouldn’t hate the idea of Chase either if he is that much better than everyone else.
          It would mean SF would need to change their team make up… but this team can’t keep basing their offense around Deebo so much given his propensity towards getting dinged up.

  13. My philosophy when drafting is usually best player available but where the Niners are, we need to draft for need.
    Secondary, pass rush, QB. WR. According to some current mocks, the Niners will draft between 12-18. Worst spot ever. With the current ready to win roster, the Niners can sacrifice 2022 picks and move up in each round.

  14. My philosophy drafting in the NFL is to trade back to garner more picks. Then, use the additional draft capital to move up in the draft to get the player they covet, but who may not be there if they wait.
    .
    Assuming they are picking between 10- 16, the Niners should trade back around 4 spots to a willing partner, in order to obtain an additional second round pick. The Niners should then trade back once again, and obtain a third round pick. By moving back 4-8 spots, they may miss out on some good talent, but there will still be good talent available, and the 2 extra early round draft picks will help fill 2 dire needs with potential starters.

  15. The F.A. signing period will tell us what position the 49ers will draft in the first round. If they end up with a top 10 pick they might draft a QB but I wouldn’t bet money on it. They could draft a CB, they could draft an O lineman or they could draft a pass rusher. It will all depend on who they sign in free agency or even more importantly who they let go in free agency. I have a feeling they will trade back a couple of times to collect extra picks and we will see Jimmy G. behind center next year. imho

    1. Yes, Happy Veterans Day. My wife worked as an architect for many years. In the economic downturn around 2008 pretty much all cap ex projects died so there were massive layoffs among architects and construction companies. My wife went into teaching and hasn’t really looked back. She now runs a program where high school students on an architecture and engineering path actually build tiny homes and donate the homes to a facility dedicated to serving homeless veterans. It’s a student led service learning project where high school students in many programs work to design, budget, market, fundraise, and build a structure. Over the past 4 years, we’ve volunteered a great deal of time and made many donations to help veterans. I wasn’t really knowledgeable about the difficulties many veterans face. It has been an eye opening experience to say the least. If you have the ability, today is a good day to donate to a group that supports military veterans in your area.

    2. Cheers Coach,

      happy Veterans Day to everyone who is serving, has served, or has a relative who served in our armed forces!

  16. 1. Zach Wilson, QB, BYU
    2. Azeez Ojulari, Edge, Georgia
    4. Ambry Thomas, CB, Michigan
    5. James Empey, OC, BYU
    5. Zach Quinney, OG, Georgia Tech

    1. I missed that Buckner said he was hoping the Niners would meet him in the middle on a contract. I’ve always thought that Buckner is a lot better than Armstead and that Armstead’s good year last year was a product of the other guys on the offense (everybody pretty much knows this). The only thing is that the team would never have gotten a 13th overall pick or probably even a first round pick for Armstead.

      I’ve been thinking about this because Buckner is pretty much always available – i.e. no to minimal injuries. With all the injuries this year, I’m just wondering if it might be worth paying a bit of a premium for a player who has no injury history.

      Of course anybody can get injured at any time, but I’m talking about guys with no or very minimal injury history.

  17. Gregg C. asks: Matt, is Josh Johnson the future mentor for a rookie quarterback or is he merely a simulation for the mobile QBs in the division?

    Can’t it be: C — All of the above?

    I think Shanahan was forthright when explaining why he brought in Johnson: COVID-19 easily could eat into the quarterback room the way it did the wide receiver room before the game against Green Bay. With Garoppolo hurt, the 49ers need to improve their odds in that regard. And Johnson, who has a long history of joining teams during a season and picking up their offense, is the right kind of guy to add in mid-November.

    I posed the same question to Kawakami. If he answers it I’ll post it as well.

  18. “…and that is on John Lynch.”

    Be interesting to know the impact our Bean Counter in Chief and salary cap genius had on the decision. In the business world there is always the correlation vs. causation issue one has to deal with when trying to reason out why things happen.
    (Meant as a response to JP’s article above)

    1. NFL contracts are all about the guaranteed money at signing, and they chose to give the money to Armstead and Ward.

      Armstead/Ward guarantee at signing: $39,650,000
      Buckner guarantee at signing: $39,378,000

      1. And if the team wasn’t dealing with a massive amount of injuries and losing you wouldn’t be looking for things to whine about. I seem to recall you singing Garoppolo’s praises previously and now he needs to go. This week it’s they should have signed Buckner. You are officially Grant Jr. Develop your own voice man.

        1. Thanks for paying so close attention to what I say/write.

          Garoppolo’s a good middle of the quarterback, and if the cap wasn’t what it is I wouldn’t have suggested moving on from him.

          I wrote at time the Buckner trade went down that the deal would only be good if Armstead could maintain a level of play similar to 2019. Wasn’t expecting 10 sacks year over year, but for that contract one should expect 5-6. Now that we’re 9 weeks in it’s clear that the Armstead we saw in 2019 was a one shot wonder.

          1. True… but Perhaps the better question was should the 49ers have let them both walk?
            Both Buckner and Armstead are interior rushers and unless you have an AD it may not be wise to invest that heavily for that role.

            Buckner is getting paid AD money but is only on pace for 5-6 sacks while AD is on pace for 15 -20 and Armstead is overpaid due to his base DE role… but his real value has always been as an interior rusher.

            IMO, it was Ward’s contract that was the killer… not Armstead’s.

            1. “Buckner is getting paid AD money”

              This is incorrect. Buckner is getting paid closer to Armstead money than he is Donald money.

              “… it was Ward’s contract that was the killer”

              This is true, and that’s why you need to include both the Armstead and Ward deals in the discussion.

              The 49ers chose to pay two mediocre guys instead of keeping a top level guy.

              1. Armstead was overpaid, but that was partially due to him being valued as a DE rather than as an interior rusher as he should have been. Additionally, if the only questions in SF was who to offer the deal too and the numbers were nearly the same… then yes they made the wrong choice.

                As to Buckner, He will be averaging 22 million for the first 3 seasons even if they void the contract for the final 2 years. Should they decide to keep him on board for the final 2 years his average earnings per year would drop to 21 mil per year. Given that AD’s salary averages 22.5 mil… I would say the colts are paying him at near AD levels… far more than he should justifiably earn given his career average in sacks is below Aaron Donald’s worst season. In fact Defo has only reached AD’s worst season total in (8) sacks once in his career.

                Like I said, maybe the question is should they have let them both go and offered deals to someone else like a Corner, Center, WR.
                In any case it’s an the whole positional value and how to build a team is an interesting and ever evolving discussion.

              2. Shoup,

                You are completely and absolutely wrong on every aspect of Buckner’s deal. While the contract with Indy was announced at 4 years at $84 million, it’s actually $96.378 over 5 years.

                How so? The Colts added the new money to his existing contract just like the 49ers could have if they wanted to keep him.

                They could have structured a deal similar to how they did Armstead’s. By converting some of Buckner’s $12 mil salary for 2020 to bonus they could have kept his cap total to around 9 mil this season, bumped it to $23 next year, that’s what they’re paying in cap for AA/JW, then let’s say 27 for 2022 which would still be 4 mill less than AA/JW and then gone down to numbers like $21.7 and $23.3 for the last two since that’s what they’re already have slated for Armstead over the last 2 years.

                Those numbers I just threw out total more than what Buckner’s deal is, but adds up to only $4 mill less than the 49ers have committed to two mediocre players that aren’t as good.

                Oh, and Buckner will average under $19 mil for the first 3 years and $20 mil over the last two. If you don’t believe me go look it up at Spotrac or OverTheCap.

              3. JP,

                You are completely and absolutely wrong on every aspect of Buckner’s deal. While the contract with Indy was announced at 4 years at $84 million, it’s actually $96.378 over 5 years.

                I understand that, but I also note you didn’t want to use the same standards across the board for AA and AD.
                Using OTC’s numbers… and the same logic.

                AD’s contract is actually a 7 year 141.8 million dollar deal (20.2 per season average)
                Defo’s is a 5 year 96.378 dollar deal (19.2 or 19.65 if they use the opt out)
                Armstead’s can be looked at as either a 6 year 85 million dollar deal, a 5 year 83.5 million dollar deal (as the final year and 1.5 million is only reached if Armstead doesn’t have a new deal), or worst case scenario a 5 year 85 million dollar deal (14.1/16.7 / 17 psa)

                As you correctly noted the major difference is the flexibility the colts afforded themselves by paying Defo his bonus up front. I will also agree that Defo is better than AA and Ward combined.

                I just reject the notion that it had to be an either or decision, as I have repeatedly stated I am uncertain that keeping any of them at those prices would have been the correct move.

  19. 1. JG will open up at QB next year despite the incessant rumors.
    2. The salary cap will be frozen at this years level.
    3. The Niners will finally draft a center.

    (IMO)

    1. If the salary cap remains at $190M next year then that will be huge for the 49ers (and a lot of other teams as well as players). Hope you’re right.

        1. Yep. I’m assuming the cap will be $175M as currently projected and agreed with the NFLPA. Going to be a bloodbath for a lot of teams and players. The 2021 landscape could be significantly different to 2020.

          1. I don’t get it. The NFL has been making record profits year in and year out. Anyone wanna share why they think the cap will go down so significantly?
            Can’t they just put a freeze on the current amount?

            1. They are projecting it will go down so significantly because the cap is based on % of revenue that is allocated to go to players, and revenue will be way down. The owners are unlikely to agree to players getting a higher % of revenue as that will mean their profits take an even bigger hit than they already will be taking this year. As much as we like to moan about owners taking X% of the pie, running a team is not costless and player salaries are only part of that cost.

          2. “Going to be a bloodbath for a lot of teams and players.”

            The way I see it, if this was not a black swan year I would agree its going to drop. However due to the 19 hanging around a lot of exceptions have already happened and will probably continue to do so. I think the owners will strike a deal with the NFLPA and freeze it for a some undetermined years. I think the owners already realize the ramifications of a rolled back salary cap, doesn’t do anyone on either side any good. With writers such as CW, I can see them lashing out at ownership…unmercifully. Just a feeling I have.

              1. In most business they do love their money and football is no different but I think with most owners its more of a toy that just keeps on giving. They want to have the best toy…

            1. “I think the owners will strike a deal with the NFLPA and freeze it for a some undetermined years.”

              This is exactly what the NFL and NFLPA have already done. The cap is based on revenue. With big revenues being lost at the gate, concessions, etc, the owners worked with the players to set a level that the cap cannot go below while spreading the losses out over 3 years, thus the salary cap floor was set at $175m for next season but could go up if the revenue turns out to be better than expected.

            2. 175 is worst case scenario and if it is that low, almost every team in the league is going to have to cut a large amount of players and push money on new contracts into future years. This is not a Niner issue it’s a league issue which is why I’m not sweating all the players coming up for FA. There is going to be a major market reset for a year or two across the league with the understanding that no matter what happens with Covid related attendance issues, the new TV deals will be negotiated soon and the cap will jump significantly because of it.

              1. The problem the 49ers will have is they have more guys coming off contract/ less guys under contract than most teams, including a lot of key players, while also not having much cap space at $175M.

                While the lower cap will of course be an issue for lots of teams, but that doesn’t make it good for the 49ers. I don’t think anyone should assume the team will be able to find quality starters to replace all the guys coming off contract on the cheap.

              2. I didn’t say it would be good for the 49ers, I’m saying it’s not as bad as it appears right now. Yes they have a lot of players to sign but the FA market is going to be severely compromised because most teams are in the same or similar situation the 49ers are. We won’t be able to sign everybody on the list, but that is never going to happen even in a regular year. They will be able to keep the players they truly want to keep that is the bottom line.

              3. They won’t be able to sign everybody on the list or find good replacements for them, even in a depressed market. Not with JG on his current cap hit.

                But if they freed up a lot of JG’s contract they probably could keep or replace most if not all.

                That’s the trade off they will need to consider. Is JG a winner without an exceptionally strong roster around him? Can a top end rookie QB be as good or better with a strong roster around him for the next four years as JG with a lesser roster?

              4. “ Can a top end rookie QB be as good or better with a strong roster around him for the next four years as JG with a lesser roster?

                That is going to be a difficult question to answer for this regime which ultimately will determine the next 3-5 years and their chances of winning a SB.

                I know right now that everybody thinks that because of the contract extensions to John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan that they’re untouchable. But guys missing the boat on a quarterback can really set a franchise back about 5 to 10 years. Just ask Jim Harbaugh.

              5. The problem is if you persist with a QB that isn’t “it”. The team kept wanting Kaep to be the guy, and never really attempted to challenge or replace him for many years. Once his contract started taking out a chunk of cap space and they could no longer field as strong a team around him, the team floundered.

                We don’t know if JG is or isn’t it just yet. We know he can lead a very good team to a lot of wins. But so could Kaep. So can a lot of decent starting QBs for that matter. Not many QBs can consistently keep their team challenging for playoffs and SBs with lesser talent around them. Those are the elite QBs. The teams that are consistently in the playoff hunt seemingly every year have one of those guys.

                Can JG win with a lesser supporting cast? We just don’t know, and that is largely because we really only have one season of solid QB play from him (while surrounded by an elite roster) due to injuries. And that’s the problem the team now finds itself facing at a time where they need to make some difficult decisions around player retention. If they roll the dice for one more year on JG, they will need to be letting some of their talent around him leave. Tough spot to be in, and some tough decisions to be made.

                Good news I guess is that JG’s contract means they can pull the ripcord any time with minimal impact to their cap, so they aren’t tied to him long term even if they go with him again next year and it doesn’t work out.

              6. And that is the most difficult thing about the NFL. In that only 4 maybe 5 teams have the QB that can carry a team.
                Point is that you can’t always be searching for that elite guy.
                Its time the Niners draft and develop their own. Even if it’s a system guy, make him the best guy to play and be successful in your system.
                But in the meantime, ride your system guy in Jimmy G till you draft and develop your guy.

              7. Sure. The problem is, if you keep JG next year you are making the team your drafted guy inherits worse, as they can’t keep as many other players. That’s the catch-22. Which is why, for mine, you’re either rolling with JG and want to use your high draft picks on replacing as many of the guys you can’t re-sign/ replace as possible, or you let JG go and draft a QB high, and use the cap space created to re-sign/ replace guys around him. Trying to do both (keep JG and draft his replacement) just makes the roster around your QB weaker.

                If they draft a QB high, he may as well start unless he is a complete fish out of water. Shanahan will tailor the offense to suit him year one while he develops. Shanahan has shown multiple times he can adapt an offense around a QB that is learning the system with success.

  20. A draft day trade with the Patriots similar to the Trent Brown trade seems like a safe bet. We send a 5th and Jimmy for the Patriots 3rd(compensatory).

        1. USA Today had a mock draft today with Wilson being selected 5th overall, behind Lawrence and Fields. Of course it doesn’t mean a lot except that he’s getting or has already got a lot of exposure.

          1. Yea, I’ve accepted the high probability that Wilson will be unobtainable. He’ll stay as my 1a, but Shanny is gonna love Mac Jones and that’s the reason he’s my 1b….

    1. That is so ridiculous I can’t even read it without laughing. Trade a QB who took a team to the SB for some magic beans. The Niners would look so inept if they ever made this kind of deal. Thank goodness it’s just another crazy suggestion on a message board that has no chance of happening.

      1. Not,

        I’m less worried about JG’s talent to be Niners franchise QB than his ability to stay on the field and exhibit that talent. One season out of three is not encouraging.

        1. Yeah, that is where I am at.
          I think he is a solid qb that you can win with, but at this point you more surprised if he stays healthy than if he gets hurt.

        2. I would share your concern if he had not just come off a season where he started 19 games. Injuries happen in this sport, this team has been inundated with them this season especially, so singling out Garoppolo as a guy who can’t stay healthy when he just showed he can stay healthy less than a season ago doesn’t seem right does it? I put up some examples of other QB’s in a response to Scooter McG yesterday who also have struggled staying healthy/winning games like Wentz, Watson and Prescott and none of those teams have contemplated dumping them and rightly so. It’s been a frustrating season and that brings a lot of negativity to a place like this but we have to keep things in perspective and not make rash statements based on that frustration.

          1. Prescott just had his first major injury… he played all 16 games in his 4 seasons prior to this year.
            Wentz is a bit concerning, however he has missed 3 games and 5 games and respectively played all 16 games 2x (including last year) already. Watson missed time his rookie year but in the 3 years since then has only missed 1 game. Jimmy will have missed the majority of the starts for 2 of the last years.

            Additionally with Wentz and Watson, you would want to give them more leeway, as their upside is insane… both of these qb’s when healthy have played at MVP levels. Jimmy has played well but has never been in the conversation as one of the best qb’s in football.

            1. I said staying healthy/winning games which Prescott hasn’t done for a couple of seasons now. Wentz has missed games due to injury and while he played the regular season last year he went out early in the playoff game which ended the Eagles chances. Watson isn’t winning. These were just a few examples of how the money and production don’t always match up to expectations. Garoppolo is a winner, he’s proven that. You don’t get rid of the only QB you’ve been able to win with in SF because he’s had some bad luck with injuries…like practically everyone else on the team.

              1. Exactly. That’s why you gave him a 5 year deal. Restructured contract or whatever, you give him another year with an option for another.

              2. The real question is does KS believe his offense is limited by Jimmy G. It’s been 3 years and that’s a time frame, which is often bandied about in the NFL, after which if there’s no significant improvement you move on from a guy.

                People talk about the one good half against the Jets – hell, I’ve mentioned it. But it was the Jets. What changed my opinion was Jimmy’s inability to do anything against the Seahawks, when virtually every other QB had, and Mullens came in and looked like a franchise QB. As I’ve stated before, I don’t buy the garbage time argument for that particular game against a hated opponent. Also, I don’t fully buy the Jimmy was hurt and that’s why he played poorly. Yes, being hurt affects his ability to throw, but why did it effect his decision making?

              3. 1. Watson -doesn’t even deserve to be in this conversation.
                He has stayed relatively healthy and is a proven winner but even he will struggle when saddled with an incompetent coach/GM who trades away all his best players for has beens.

                2. I think Dak is massively overrated but he has also playing for a dysfunctional franchise… as to his health… he has been healthy until this year.

                3. Wentz, well he has an extensive injury history and I would be scared to have him as my qb… but he has still managed to stay healthier than Jimmy in his time as a starter.

                If you are a GM and you have those 4 players to choose from to build your franchise around who are you taking? And how would you rank them?

                IMO Jimmy is last among them, yeah he wins when he is out there… but of those players mentioned he’s the least likely to suit up on game day and has the lowest talent level. *note* I would feel the same way about Wentz if he got hurt again and move him below Jimmy.

  21. 77 million and still counting….

    Razor and Houston are you embarrassed on how your leader is acting?

    Everything we told you about this guy is TRUE…

    Nobody could write this story….he is hiding in the White House….tweeting bout fox news…firing people who won’t commit crimes….and not a single word on the virus…

    I used to want to argue Trump is the worst president we ever had…there is no longer an argument to be had…the future won’t be kind to him

    1. the actions speak for themselves – We told you Trump is not about America first – he is only about Trump first

      Shame on ALL of you – who followed this cry baby – who is really a snowflake

        1. Rib,
          Whoa!
          I’m the kid (growing up in school) who chased off bullies from intimidating other kids.
          I’ve never used a derogatory remark towards any person of color (of which I am one).
          I help those less fortunate in my community, and never broken the law.
          Heck, I haven’t used a curse word since the 8th grade (lol).

          But now I should be ashamed? I guess that you agree with Hillary that I’m a “deplorable.”
          So, I ask you; where do I fit in your world?

          1. So, I ask you; where do I fit in your world?

            A professed man of religious faith who backed the very definition, through his actions and behavior, of the Anti-Christ. What person like that fits into your world?

            1. Rib,
              “A professed man of religious faith who backed the very definition, through his actions and behavior, of the Anti-Christ. What person like that fits into your world?”

              Ha, that’s cute. It amazes me how Dems place labels on people that actually stick and are believed by their followers.
              Deplorables, Racist, Cultist, Bigots, Russian agents, Religious Bigots, White Supremacist and a host of other adverse names.

              Maybe Biden can end this language. But if he can’t, the mad protest street legislation will pound on his door when they don’t get their way. So, will AOC.
              BLM chairwoman is already knocking on Biden’s door for a meeting. She wants to make it clear to Biden that her efforts to garner the black votes won him the election.
              Looks like Biden is off to a smooth start (ha).
              But, I will support him if he’s my president.
              That’s what true Americans do.
              This is also my last comments on politics.

        1. Prime, what? Are you going to bring brass knuckles and chains to the PD reunion? Get real. Each of us has called out or otherwise denigrated, personally or collectively, each other here. I have no doubt we’d all get along fine face to face. I’m looking forward to when we can meet up at the next Niners game at the meadowlands.

          1. Not you Rib. One lame whose become Mr.Politics on here. It’s one thing to criticize peoples football IQ, but when you taunt people’s political view points, over the internet, on a football blog nonetheless, it’s coward territory.

  22. Tartt out? Maybe this is a good time to see what Cyprien can do.
    .
    The Niners can win, if they can shut down Kamara. Play Armstead inside, and alternate Kinlaw and Jones. Dion Jordan is pedestrian, so maybe Saleh should give Givens more snaps. KS needs to have crisp, efficient game management. If they are worried about pass protection, maybe they should line up hasty deep in the I, and let him build up a head of steam before attacking the weakness in the defense. Then, play actions for long bombs. KS needs to take advantage of the Saints defensive speed by doing counters and misdirections. Reverses with Aiyuk and James may be very effective.
    .
    I hope the Saints are complacent, and do not take this game too seriously.
    .
    Sometimes, it just comes down to whichever team wants it more. I know the Niners are desperate, while the Saints are basking in their blowout win against the Bucs.
    .
    Niners, 24-23.

      1. Prime Time says:
        October 25, 2020 at 9:04 pm
        I know. Nov.4th we will see if your prediction comes true OR if you have egg on your face.

        Prime you should call your sissy friend to come wipe that $h!t of your face…

        1. You are so stupid, you don’t have a clue what we were talking about, but here you go.

          Prime Time says: 
August 22, 2020 at 7:59 am 


          He did take the league by storm. But when will he return?

          Seb says: 
August 22, 2020 at 9:16 am 

          November 4th.

        2. Prime really does not have a clue.
          .
          Being wrong about November 4th , pales in comparison to November 3rd.
          .
          I am content to admit I was wrong, but am ecstatic that I was right.
          .
          I am also right about my prediction concerning the Covid 19 Pandemic. I thought there would be a second spike, and it looks like they will have to go to crisis mode.

          1. You were wrong about Kap and I don’t give 2 sh$ts who is running your country. Canada will be just fine!
            The only satisfaction I need was seeing you eat your crow and with egg on your face!
            🖕🏻U!

    1. Mac Jones or Kyle Trask? I’m studying both guys right now and Trask leads because of his size. Jones coming on as he is more accurate. TBC.

    2. Raz,
      I read that earlier, but as SY said, Wilson may be the 3rd QB chosen in the draft which puts him in the top ten.
      If the 49ers win a few more games, they will not only need to make a substantial deal for him, but will likely get rid of Garoppolo in the the process.

      Also, ZW (if drafted) will need to learn the intricacies of the Shanahan O-scheme which won’t happen over night. This could take anywhere between 4-6 (maybe more) games into the season.
      Who is the QB in the interim?

      1. Who is the QB in the interim?

        That answer scares the crap out of me?
        No to Matt Ryan, Kirk Cousins, Matthew Stafford, Nick Mullen’s.

        Here is my problem. If its not Jimmy, the Niners are going with a very expensive, cap eating veteran, or a useless stop gap like Mullen’s who is cheap.
        Plan B, draft a QB early and hope he wins the job and can lead a ready to win championship team.

        Answer: I don’t like either option.

            1. It will have to be the right vet who is okay knowing that in a year or two the rookie draft pick takes over.
              Ryan Fitzpatrick?

        1. I’ve always liked Brissett, but is he willing to continue to be a bridge until the next QB is ready?
          Imho, I don’t know if the Colts will be in a hurry to move Jacoby after the game Rivers recently had.

          I’m with Prime on this one. There’s just too many variables to count on any FA or rookie QB to keep the team relevant next year.

          1. Any F/A QB would love to run Shanny’s offense. Brissett would be cheaper than Jimmy and he’d compete with the rookie and Johnson….

          2. Shanahan wouldn’t ask a rookie to run his full offense year one. But Shanahan can tailor the offense to work with a less expansive playbook, and use the strengths of the team which is YAC. Heck, he’s been doing that with JG.

            The idea a rookie can’t learn and run a version of Shanahan’s offense doesn’t hold water for me.

              1. Nobody is saying that couldn’t happen. You can have a simplified offense that still incorporates downfield passes. But I think the offense would likely be paired back a bit for a rookie so he doesn’t have too much on his plate to start.

      2. Some truth and facts straight from John Lynch:

        “Here’s what I know about Jimmy Garoppolo, and I’ve been consistent: We’re a better team when he’s out there. We win a lot when he’s out there and we’ve struggled to win without him.

        “People can pick his game apart. A lot of this year, Jimmy probably hasn’t played up to his standard and he’s been somewhat compromised with his health since he had that high ankle in the Jets’ game.”

        And in case anyone has forgotten just how bad this team was and is without Garoppolo:

        Garoppolo is 22-8 as the 49ers’ starter since arriving his December 2017 debut. Coach Kyle Shanahan is 5-22 without him in the lineup since 2017.

        I understand there is a frustration and venting process that some need to go through, but Garoppolo isn’t going anywhere.

          1. I agree which is why I don’t see anyway he moves on from Garoppolo because he knows he can win with him. If you look at Shanahan’s QB’s historically they are a lot like Garoppolo. Matt Schaub, Kirk Cousins, Brian Hoyer, Matt Ryan. All pocket passers with limited mobility that play within the system. The only outlier is RG3 who the Shanahan’s didn’t want to begin with.

        1. “Garoppolo is 22-8 as the 49ers’ starter since arriving his December 2017 debut.”

          If he doesn’t come back this season he will also have missed 23 out of 53 regular season games during his time in SF.

          1. Chris Simms said yesterday that college QBs are coming out more ready to play than basically any time he can remember. There’s no more of this 3 or 4 years waiting to start. Now, I suppose a lot of that is because the pure pocket passer is going the way of the dodo. An interesting side effect, according to Simms, is that teams can now expect to have their franchise QB on a cheaper salary cap for more years than heretofore. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens to the value of the QB position. No doubt it will always be at the top, but will contracts be trending towards $40 million per year or $20 to $25 million per year.

          2. Yep football is a rough sport and injuries happen. Doesn’t change the fact he started 19 games a season ago all the way to the SB.

        2. The context of his comment is important. Lynch was directly confronted about the team scouting QBs – what did you expect him to say? “Yep, JG is done as a 49er.”?

          He admits they are scouting QBs. He indicated they do it every year, but that is a bit of a furphy – they don’t send their top scout to look at top end QBs every year.

          Regarding JG, he could have said the team wanted him as their QB next year. He didn’t. Instead he said the team has been better with him historically and that some of the issues this year were due to injury. Basically, he’s currently the best QB on the roster (yes, he is), the injury impacted his play (yes, it did), and when he (and the rest of the currently very good roster around him) is healthy the team has shown they can win a lot of games (yes, they can).

          1. Really? You know that they never send Peters out to look at a QB? I didn’t know that. I’d think the top scout would be checking out a number of prospects at every position in person but that’s just me. As I also said to you previously, they should be looking at QB’s because they only have one under contract and I would imagine they will check out a few more, but I don’t see them taking one in the first round. I could be wrong of course but it doesn’t make a lot of sense to take a QB when you have one under contract you know you can win with and you need help at other positions to make a serious run at another SB berth.

            As to the rest, you can’t help yourself. You fixate on the wording instead of the message so you can keep reading between the lines. He clearly said they win with Garoppolo and lose without him. Play the word game if you must just like the cap management angle but at the end of the day Garoppolo is the best option for them next season.

  23. Nobody is disputing Lynch, but he did send his top lieutenant to personally scout Wilson. Make no mistake, if Peters concludes he’d be an upgrade at the position, they won’t hesitate to pull the trigger….

    1. Yes and I would hope that would be the case for every position which I would imagine it is. Wilson is interesting, but he’s only had one year of this kind of performance and is likely going to require them trading up if they can even find a trading partner. If they did do that that would be passing on players at other positions who could help them at greater areas of need. So it comes down to bailing on a young veteran QB at a decent number for what he has accomplished while adding a combination of pass rusher/CB/Interior lineman with the first two picks or even trading down, vs. trading/cutting that QB, giving up their top two picks in this draft and likely more next year for a gamble on a one year performer who hasn’t played against top competition. If you are a team that views itself as a SB contender which they and everyone else did coming into this season, I don’t think you panic and overreact to an injury marred season and do a 180 which is essentially what option 2 would be.

  24. The Niners are not moving on from JG. Yes, he may be a team player, and restructure his contract so JL has more cap space. However, all the speculation about needing to draft a QB is just fantasy.
    .
    No matter what, whoever is at QB will be doomed to failure if the Niners do not shore up the O line. Both the run game and pass protection is so critical for any QB to succeed. Maybe the Niners should have selected Wirfs, instead of letting the Bucs get him. Then, they could have traded back at 31 to garner more picks, but still also get Aiyuk.
    .
    No poster on this site has given any reason why any QB will be a lock. Both Lawrence and Fields are unattainable. Wilson looks good against mediocre competition, but I will wait for the bowl games to assess his abilities.
    .
    Looking at the draft order, right now, they have the Niners at 18th. I think they might pick around 13. They should trade back 4 to 6 spots, in order to get another second round pick. Then trade back again for a third round pick. This way, they will move back around 10 spots, but then have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, instead of only 2.
    .
    If they end up at 23, they could possibly get Dillon Radunz OT, Samuel Cosmi OT, Eric Stokes CB or Trey Smith IOL.
    With their 2 second round picks, they could possibly get Jayson Oweh DE, Deonte Brown IOL or Alex Linderbaum IOL.
    .

  25. I wouldn’t mind seeing the 9ers move back all of the way out of the 1st rd into the early 2nd. If their pick is around #10 they could pick up 4 or 5 picks by trading back 2 or 3 times. This team needs a lot more than a good 1st round pick. They need DB’s, O linemen and a pass rusher. Having 8 to 10 draftees on next years roster will also take care of another problem, the cap. I think Jimmy G should start next season and we should look to draft, sign or trade for a QB the next off season. My 2022 draft crush is Jayden Daniels QB Ariz St.

  26. Andy Reid had a QB he could win with in Alex Smith. What’d he do? Identified and traded up for the guy that could take his offense to the next level, and that’s exactly what I expect Shanny to do; and it’s what he should do….

    1. Sounds good on paper. But keep in mind, you better not miss.
      Point is you have a guy when healthy has shown he can win games.

      1. As I pointed out above, plenty of QBs have shown they can win games when healthy and surrounded with an excellent roster. JG is not unique in that regard.

        1. And that’s pretty much all the teams in the league. They have just enough to win games but not enough for the QB to carry them.
          Aaron Rodgers, Mahomes are the only 2 guys in the league good enough. The rest, like us, need a complete roster to win.

          1. The teams that have consistently been making playoffs over the past decade or more are the Patriots, Seahawks, Steelers, Packers and Saints. Before that, the Colts were also pretty much a perennial playoff team with Manning. Maybe the Chiefs become such a team over the next decade. What did/ do they all have in common? The same thing that is also the reason why the Patriots aren’t making the playoffs this year and the Steelers didn’t last year with Roethlisberger injured.

            It isn’t rocket science. The easiest way to keep yourself in the SB race over a long stretch of time is to get the QB position right. An elite roster led by a decent QB tends to be more short term because it is harder to keep an elite roster together, especially when a decent QB counts so much against the cap.

            1. That’s why it’s so hard to win in this league. There isn’t enough franchise type QB’s. The one other constant in all those teams, continuity in the coaching staffs.
              My point is it is really difficult to find the right guy at the QB spot. Then it’s difficult to have a head coach who is good enough to build a scheme and evolve it year in and year out.
              Like AES said, even with a franchise QB, it’s really hard to win it all. You need everything to go perfect.

              1. Yes it does take a good coach, and those teams have all had good coaches, but let’s just say it is easier to keep your job as a HC if your QB is good enough to get you to the playoffs most years.

                And yeah, even with a great QB you (usually) need a very good team around them to win it all. No doubt.

                This should go without saying, but only one team can win it all each year. So yeah, great QBs aren’t going to always win it multiple times. Over the past decade, Brady has won it 3 times, Russ once, Rodgers once, Brees once, Peyton Manning once and Mahomes once. Other QBs (Eli, Flacco and Foles/Wentz) have won it just 3 times combined over that span. Add the five years before that and Roethlisberger won it twice, Brady once and Peyton once, plus Eli again. It is hard to win the SB, but great QBs (and QBs named Manning) have significantly improved odds.

              2. So then, do you use all that draft capital next year to keep building up the roster: secondary, oline, WR and and pass rush, or trade away multiple picks probably in 2021 and 2022 to move into the top 5 and get the QB?

                Or roll with Mullen’s, Jimmy G and stop gap vet for another year, build the roster up and hopefully strike gold in the later rounds for the next Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Mark Rypien, Roger Stabauch?

              3. The hard truth may well be that the 49ers SB window with JG at QB is closing, unless he develops into an elite QB. Keeping a very strong roster around him is going to start getting difficult as of next season. The chances of being able to fill all their upcoming losses with as good or better players through FA and the draft I believe will be slim. To compensate for the weaker roster they would need to rely more often on the QB carrying them at times. And while JG has some excellent aspects to his game, there are areas where I think it is fair to question whether he’ll ever get there, decision making and consistency chief among them.

                And hoping a later round pick will become your elite QB is pretty wishful thinking imo. It could happen, but the chances are just so low. The best chance of getting a top QB is taking one early.

                I would not be opposed at all to trading up high for a QB if they really believed that player had the skills to be their franchise QB. While giving up the draft capital would hurt, the salary cap space freed up by moving on from JG would mean they can use FA to supplement the roster and keep it strong.

        2. Scooter,
          Are you including Mullens and Beathard in that equation?
          Lynch was completely right in his comments that the team has won with Jimmy G at the helm.
          The numbers support this and when Jimmy is healthy the offense runs like clock-work more often than not.

          I understand the angst, but I don’t put the entire blame on Garoppolo. It’s incredible how many starters have been hit with injuries and missed time.
          Do we discuss the possibility of moving players like Mostert, Bosa and Deebo that have also missed games due to injuries?

          Jimmy gets one more “healthy” season in my book. I guess that I’m not ready to discard a QB that took us to the SB, 10 months ago.

          1. No, I am talking about decent starting QBs. There are plenty of QBs that can win games with a strong supporting cast in the NFL. Heck, Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer won SBs and they aren’t as good as JG imo.

            Regarding Mullens, while I firmly believe he is a backup QB only, it is also worth pointing out we have never seen him with as good a supporting cast as JG had last season either. He is not as good a QB, not even trying to suggest that, but I do think the 49ers can win games with Mullens at QB so long as the rest of the team around him is good and healthy.

            1. I agree 100% that a talented team can win with a mediocre QB. This the very reason why I’m giving Jimmy another year. Because he’s proven that he can win when he’s surrounded by talented players.
              That hasn’t been the case this season.
              I don’t see a hot rookie QB or FA QB winning if the 49ers face the same kind of injuries next season.

              Elite QB’s aren’t guaranteed to win a SB during their careers as well.
              Namath only won one, and Marino only went to one SB during his illustrious career. I am starting to believe that in todays game, there aren’t many Quarterbacks that can carry a team on their back throughout the whole season.

              1. As outlined in some of my other posts (a) the team is unlikely to be as talented around JG next year due to the cap issues, and (b) 10 of the past 15 SBs have been won by a QB widely considered to be elite or close to elite that has consistently taken their team to the playoffs year in year out (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees), and one by a QB many believe will be/ already is the same (Mahomes). So yeah, elite QBs aren’t guaranteed to win a SB, but man, the odds of them winning are significantly greater than for just a decent to good QB.

              2. AES,

                I tend to disagree with this… especially when mid tiir qb’s are making nearly as much as their elite counterparts.
                Since 2000 the odds of a team winning the superbowl without elite play at the qb spot are still around 3 to 1 in favor of the elite qb winning it. These numbers hold roughly true with even making it to the superbowl as well.

                While some argue in favor of building an elite team and having mediocre qb… while the approach has merit, teams built this way will fluctuate much more from season to season. The salary cap makes it nearly impossible to hold onto a team full of elite talent year after year. Even if a team chooses to go cheap at qb. Corners, Edge positions, tackles, and wr’s can all be costly… and teams will need to restructure their teams makeup frequently and even well run teams will not always get it right… I think Baltimore is a good example of this.

              3. But that’s the dilemma. Every team is in need of a “elite/franchise” QB.

                The Jets thought they had it in Darnold. Same for the Browns with Mayfield. I’d say the same for Lamar Jackson and Philly with Wentz.

                These generational QB’s are few and far between. That’s why building the roster is more important. It’s just way too hard to find that QB who can carry the entire team.
                If Jimmy makes that one throw to Sanders in the SB last year, he goes from zero to hero. One throw!
                Every team is gonna have a drop off in talent from year to year. Through injury and free agency, you are always having to reload.
                Replacing WR’s, RB’s, Edge rushers etc. is much easier than QB. But finding that one QB is probably the most difficult.

              4. Prime, it is a lot easier to build a strong roster around a solid QB when that QB is on rookie $. That’s the dilemma the team now faces. They built the roster up already and it was as strong as it is ever likely to be the past two years. They missed their shot last year and this year has been a CF. They are now paying starting vet QB money and the cheap stars and other starters/ contributors they had are now getting paid/ due to get paid. They would have been ok for a few more years but COVID has effed things up. They don’t have the cap space to keep this roster as strong anymore.

                It’s unfortunate, but the 49ers SB window with JG at QB is probably closing due to COVID unless he progresses to become an elite QB.

                Guys like Darnold fail as much if not more so due to the circumstances as the talent. He got drafted by a bad team. Hehas a bad coach with a poor supporting cast. Hard for a rookie to work out in that situation. Any rookie QB coming into the 49ers would be placed in a significantly better situation to develop.

              5. Scooter / Shoup,
                I don’t refute your takes. But the best two QB’s in the last 40 years have been Joe Montana and Tom Brady. They were (are) elite, but they were also surrounded by great talent and arguably the best head coaches of all time.

                I’m going to switch gears and go to Shanahan. He has yet to prove that he is anywhere close to an elite head coach.
                But like in the case with Jimmy, I can’t honestly grade them when the team has been decimated with so many injured starters.

                All this comes back to my initial take that I keep Jimmy G, for next season and analyze him based on him playing healthy.
                If he falters while healthy, we start to implement plan 2. And that could involve a FA or rookie QB.

              6. Further to my point, of the last 15 SB winners, only one was won by a team with a non-elite QB that wasn’t on a rookie contract, and that was Eli Manning in his 2nd SB victory (his first was on his rookie contract). Flacco and Wentz won theirs on rookie deals (and Wentz didn’t even really win, it was his low salaried backup in Foles).

                Even with the elite guys, many of them won while on their rookie contracts and a couple haven’t won since (Wilson, Roethlisberger). Mahomes was also on his rookie deal.

              7. AES, by that time the team will have already needed to let go a bit of its talent. That’s the problem. By trying to keep it going for another year, and giving JG one more shot, you not only are doing so with what will most likely be a lesser talented roster in 2021, you are also likely weakening the roster for the next few years for any rookie QB if JG doesn’t pan out.

                I’m not saying the team won’t do that, but they had better hope JG works out and is that elite QB they hoped he was when they extended him.

          2. AES don’t forget George Kittle. Everyone says he is the best TE in football but how many games has he missed since being drafted due to injury?
            This is a serious factor for the entire 49ers organization to figure it out and get it right.

    2. Very true and it stands out because it rarely ever happens. It’s also a very different situation. Smith was given a few seasons to show what he could do and could never get them to a SB. Garoppolo did it in his first full season with the 49ers. Usually if a team wins 15 games and goes to a SB they aren’t looking to replace the QB the following year. There are exceptions like Dilfer of course, but it’s extremely rare.

      And correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t you just saying Garoppolo was going to be the starter next year on the previous topic thread?

  27. Greggis Khan
    Do they resign Dick Charmin?

    SB Nation
    Kyle Posey
    reply

    In reply to Greggis Khan
    My guess is no because of his age and injury history. Sherm will have missed half of this season, and he played ’18 through an injury. He’s on the wrong side of 30. I’d imagine they pick the younger Jason Verrett if he continues to stay healthy for the remainder of this season.

    I think it’s way past time to invest in one of the most important positions in the game.

    Also, his new name is Dick Charmin from here on out.

    1. Hey Razor. I’ve been watching some film on Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, and Kyle Trask.
      So far, what worries me about each of these guys, everything they do well is out of the shot gun formation.
      This is why I hate the idea of going with a rookie QB next year. Especially in Shannys offense where a lot of it is predicted on play action.

      1. The same can be said of almost every QB coming out of college these days. Yet more and more rookie QBs are having success and looking good early on in their career. Offenses are evolving to fit the new age QB. Shanahan can adapt his offense to suit a rookie until he gets comfortable handling the nuances of Kyle’s system.

        1. Which is almost 90% play action. I haven’t seen the game change much this year with QB’s playing primarily from shot gun formation. It’s still a game that you need your QB to play under center.
          Honestly, I don’t see that ever changing because players on defense are as fast, if not faster than the skill positions guys on offense.
          That’s why the art of deception is still key.

          1. And yet, those rookie QBs that are now being asked to play a fair bit under centre despite limited to no exposure to it in college have shown they are able to adapt.

            I think you are making this out to be a bigger issue than it is.

            1. I’m curious to see how much Tua & Murray, two mobile QB’s do versus pocket passer QB’s like Allen and Burrows when the year is over from a stat perspective.
              4 new age QB’s with some similar and some different skill sets.

              1. These young QBs all still need to be able to operate from the pocket and be proficient passing the football first and foremost to be successful. The mobility these guys all provide, to different levels, are secondary components that make them more dangerous and more difficult to defend, but need to be secondary to what they provide passing the football. Otherwise they will end up like Kaep and other “running QBs” from the past.

              2. I agree. And this is why I see Lamar Jackson needing to evolve his game. He isnt any better from last year as teams have found ways to contain him.
                He better change or he will become Kaepernick.

              3. JH once again does not know how to properly utilize his QB. Both Jim and John, with Roman as the OC.
                .
                Lamar Jackson complained that the defense was calling out the play just before the snap, so JH needs to be less predictable.
                .
                The Read Option would help solve that problem, because the decision to where the ball is going, happens after the snap. GB runs the Pistol.
                .
                Just by looking at the QBR alone, Kaep is better than half the starters in the league. He is bigger, stronger and way faster than all but the elite QBs. Bloviating that Kaep could not possibly play, when the drek QBs are making games unwatchable, is specious.
                .
                Pontificating about rookie QBs is all that is left after this injury train wreck? I think they can regroup, and win enough games to squeak into the Wild Card. This is a winnable game, but KS needs to coach his A game. Saleh needs to mix things up more, so their offense cannot attack one player all the time.
                .
                Right now, Kaep is better than any rookie. Mahomes did well because he got the Aaron Rodgers treatment. He had a year to study and learn behind AS. Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert are putting up decent numbers, but they were thrown into the breach, and have been struggling to win.
                .
                If JG cannot play again this season, Kaep is clearly superior to Mullens and CJB. Kaep is a record setting SB QB with a 4-2 road playoff record. Thankfully, the blackballing will soon stop, now that the guy who called Kaep an SOB, is now neutered.

              4. Prime Time says: 
August 22, 2020 at 7:59 am 

                He did take the league by storm. But when will he return?

                Seb says: 
August 22, 2020 at 9:16 am 

                November 4th.

            2. Seb,
              I have a question for you and i’m not being sarcatic. How many years does CK have to sit before you say he can no longer come back?

              1. Don’t you know in Seb’s mind, Kap is Superman and can still play when he is 60 or even 70. Hero’s never get old.

              2. Well, if Josh Johnson can sit for 5 years, then Kaep could, too.
                .
                Remember, Kaep has not taken any brutal hits for all the years he has been blackballed, so he should be perfectly healthy with fresh legs.
                .
                Yes, Kaep just turned 33, but with no wear and tear on his body for 4 years, he may be capable of playing for years. With the new league rules protecting QBs, he could play into his forties.
                .
                With that bellicose, bloviating bombastic, belligerent bully losing, Kaep has a good chance of returning. Some team just needs to realize that the drek QBs they are playing, just doom them to keep losing. Hopefully, instead of being content to lose, some team will take a chance on Kaep because they truly want to win.

              3. PT- The guy who prefers Fitzpatrick over JG. I do not think he could have derived that from his Football for Dummies. He probably pulled that out of his rear end.

  28. RICH SKRENTA set me free from old debt and increase my credit score plus took away all bad inquires on credit report within a short period of time without any stress. CONTACT INFORMATION: (rich) (skrenta) (cyber) (service) (@) gmail.com

  29. A talented player I think could take over for Trent Taylor is Dazz Newsome out of North Carolina. He’s cat quick with legit speed. Check him out if you get a chance.

      1. Yeah, I think Taylor’s days are numbered here as I believe he was kept here in hopes that he would rekindle his connection with Jimmy.

        1. Taylor hasn’t looked the same and what’s with all the guys on our team with back injuries?
          Ford, Hurd, Taylor!

          Richie James becomes the new starting slot WR.

  30. Razor,
    You have become the QB whisperer here so I will address this to you. Before last week and his first half this week I saw Ian Book as a 4th round pick but I believe he is moving up the draft quickly. He is if nothing else a big time winner. What are your thoughts on Book?

    1. I think he’s improved at feeling the rush in the pocket and making subtle moves while keeping his eyes downfield. Really like his intuitiveness at picking seams to run through, and he’s improved his deep ball. He does have physical limitations though that probably relegate him to a 2nd or 3rd stringer. I could see a coach like Gruden taking a flyer on him day 3….

      Thanks for the compliment but I’m no qb whisperer. Just a draft nerd.

  31. Raz,
    Your college players information is very helpful.
    Perhaps one day when you have some time, you can give the blog family a “top 10 all positions” list.

    I haven’t kept up with college football over the past few years. I’m at the point where I only focus on players who fit the 49ers positions of need.

  32. Why are all the Proud Boys either obese, or undersized, pasty, pencil-necked midgets?…….They’re not a great advertisement for Aryan supremacy?

    Looks like a flu klux klan rally

    One thing I noticed viewing the many closeups of this crowd. Not a lot of women! – then I noticed their women look like men……

    according to Fox news – They’re trying to get a count of how many people are at the MAGA March in Washington…….But every time they reach 270, someone screams for a recount and they have to start over.

    I love how Trump gave his crowd of losers a ten second drive-by and wave, before hitting the links 😆

    So funny how a bunch of Trump supporters come to Washington to show their support, and Trump goes golfing. Hey rubes, those “Stop the Steal” donations you’re making? They’re going into his bank account for a rainy day.

    Lol they are calling their own march “fake news “. What idiots

        1. You actually think anyone gives a rats a$$ on this blog what you are talking about?
          And if they do, they are as stupid if not dumber than you!

          Football blog dummy!

              1. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits, as I will not take advantage of your handicap – Acting like a dick, won’t make your 3 inches any bigger

    1. Maybe I don’t understand this being so far away from the US but aren’t they lead by a man who identifies as an afro/cuban? Wouldn’t that be like if Hitler was a Jew when leading the Nazi party? Have they been hijacked?
      I apologize for my ignorance on this and I am not trying to be a smartass I’m genuinely curious, as the narratives regarding the group seem a bit all over the place.

      Also to everyone else… I’m sorry for posting regarding a non 49ers topic on this board.

      1. It’ll be difficult to discern direction until/unless they transition from proud boys to proud adolescents. My guess is that like all pubescents, they’ll discover the opposite sex and focus on that.

    1. Prime,
      Trask 4 TD passes in the 1st half. Ain’t bad at all my friends.
      But, he’s not very mobile.
      Still, the kid can definitely spin the ball!

      1. I have seen people say he is a statue but that isn’t what I have seen. He moves pretty well in the pocket and can extend plays. He just isn’t much of running threat.

        The way he is playing I can see him being a guy that is part of the conversation to be the 3rd QB taken after Lawrence and Fields.

          1. I think after Lawrence and Fields it will come down to what flavour of QB a team wants that will determine order in which the next QBs get selected. Want a big armed and athletic QB? Take Lance. Want a gamer that can play some sandlot football? Take Wilson. Want more of a traditional pocket passer? Take Trask.

            I can see Trask being a guy Shanahan really likes.

      2. Actually, 5 TD’s in the 1st half. He threw number 5 about 2 minutes later after my first post.
        Unfortunately, for the 49ers, Trask’ game tonight may have pushed him from 2-3 rd into a top 15 pick.

    2. He looked good. Made a lot of touch passes with accuracy, showing his ability to drop the balls between defensive layers.

      My only question here was did he face any pressure at all? Similar to Wilson, I would like to see what they throw like when their feet aren’t clean. However, given the circumstances, you couldn’t have asked for better QB play.

  33. I’ve been touting Trask for the last 3 weeks and if you are watching the game, you know why.
    The kid is a straight up spinner with uncanny accuracy.
    But if I can be just a little picky here, I’m slightly concerned about his arm strength. But that can be developed in the pro’s.

    1. The kid is accurate and seems to have command of that offense.
      He looks the part and I’d say him and Wilson, the Niners would be lucky to get one or the other.

  34. Jack(Hammer) I appreciate your 5 burning questions over on SI, great work is becoming the standard from your submissions.

    In regards to your first question; what’s changed that will allow Shanny to go back to those plays?

    1. Oh, but did you forget that Razordoll predicted a SB win this season!
      And Prime Slime and Razordoll predicted a landslide for the Liar in Chief…..

  35. Jack Hammer sure tries hard, but I just cannot listen anymore. I will be content to just read what is written. Several of the SI writers are having a hard time reading what they write. It seems forced, and stilted. It really is painful to watch them mangle their words. Maybe they should try reading out loud their article at least 5 times before doing their podcasts. Practice delivering it to their spouses. I do not know about their children, kids can be brutally honest.
    .
    There is a new guy, Vincent Saglimbeni. He gave 3 keys for an upset win for the Niners. The first was to make the Saints one dimensional. Yes, they need to contain Kamara, but he wants the Niners to force Brees to throw the ball. No, just no. That would be like the Niners forcing Aaron Rodgers to beat them with his arm. Too bad he diced and sliced the Niner secondary. Usually, it is best to attack a weakness, instead of highlighting a strength. Thomas, Sanders and Cook, along with future HOF QB Brees, sure seems like it is a potent and dangerous facet of the game. It would have been better to say that the Niners should keep everything in front of them, and make the Saints conduct long drives, hoping they make a mistake.
    .
    He then states that KS needs to be creative, coaching this game. Sure, in his infinite wisdom, JL traded Kwon Alexander to a future opponent, so KS should just assume that the Saints have the 49er playbook. KS needs to change things up, but not get too cute. Making JG line up wide did not fool the Seahawks at all. They ignored JG, so it was 11 against 10, and the play got stuffed.
    .
    I will agree that the Niners should try to dominate the time of possession, but easier said than done. Mullens will need to play the game of his life.
    .
    Maybe the best hope for an upset will be for the Niners to play disciplined and focused. They need to avoid making mistakes, and treat time outs like they are precious, instead of wasting them. Maybe the only way for them to win, is to hope that the Saints make mistakes, that the Niners can capitalize upon.

  36. Did anyone else see the NC game? I was watching it to see some of the skill position players that could be available later in the draft.
    Sam Howell looked amazing and is a true sophmore… if he had the build of Lawrence or Luck, he would likely be a top 5 pick in a year or 2. Yesterday he put up 550 yrds and 6tds and 1 int.
    College qbs are getting better and better or defenses are getting worse than I can remember. SMH.

  37. Buckner : “I was hoping the 49ers would at least meet me in the middle. I definitely didn’t expect them to trade me. I poured my heart and soul into that organization…to go from 2-14 my first year to build a culture and get to a Super Bowl? You just don’t expect to be traded.”

    1. I saw this… but it seems a little off.

      I totally get that he was hurt and understandably so. However, I don’t know how he could be shocked by it given that when he made his salary demands the team gave his agent permission to find a trade partner. They then found the trade partner and made the deal. If the team made him no offers at all then they f’d up… but I can’t see them just making no offer.

    2. Buck is counting for $22.3M in cap space for the Colts this season. Armstead is counting for $6M in cap space for the Niners this season, and about $9M next season, IIRC. Armstead will likely re-negotiate his contract down the road. Fans complaining about Buck being traded likely do not understand the cap repercussions, IMO.

  38. With all of the QB talk around here lately I have been watching tons of college games and looking at QB’s very closely. I think it has to do with covid football but Offense is dominating defense and QB’s are looking incredible on many teams especially in the mid majors. I believe we need to look closely at last years stats and when it comes around the combine. I pretty much watch college football on Saturdays from 9:00 AM to the late evening and I seem to develop a crush on a different QB about every three hours. I think the 9ers will draft a QB but not until the 4th round or later. My latest crush is on Ian Book in the 4th round. He reminds me of a Brady when he was in college except far more mobile.

    1. Those are valid points OC. College scoreboards are starting to look like slot machines with scores climbing ever higher. I don’t know that I would wait as long as you but performances prior to this year should be a major factor when deciding who to target.

      1. Thing is, this isn’t that uncommon to previous years either. QBs coming out just seem to be better able to translate their game to the pros the past few years. If you were basing selecting a QB on body of work rather than latest season then the last two 1st overall picks never would have been drafted that high, yet both of them are looking like real stars for the future in the NFL. If you were basing selecting a QB in consideration of the inept defenses they faced then Mahomes wouldn’t have been a 1st round pick, but he’s obviously an exceptional player.

        Now that’s not to say there won’t be misses, but I just think you have to look at what the players do well regardless of how defenses play against them, and if those skills are ones that translate at the next level then they are well worth considering as high picks.

        Regarding OC’s crush on Book, I can understand that. I like him too. If the 49ers decide to roll with JG again next year I certainly wouldn’t mind them taking Book in the mid rounds to be the backup and a guy you hope might be more. But if they are looking to take a guy to replace JG that they really believe will be a long term starting QB, I think you need to be looking at one of the early tier QBs.

        1. Those are sound points… I was basing it more on the collegate defenses have looked this year. As to your point regarding Murray vs bad defenses, I think he was more of a talent and fit to where he went… than a guy that could operate in any offense. To your poinit though, this is something has to be looked at in regards to every prospect.

    2. Coach,
      Good observation. And if we look back at pre-covid college QB’s, my target would be Trey Lance.
      He finished the 2019 season with 28 TD’s and 0 Int’s and went 16-0.
      In the one game he played this season before the school canceled the season due to Covid, he threw for 4 TD’s and the win.

      The one concern may be (to many pundits) is that he plays in a lower conference, but the skills are absolute. I see him as another top 10 pick if he enters early.

      1. I kind of think he is the player most likely to fall.
        Lawrence is going 1, Fields in the top 3, then I think Wilson will climb up into the top 10.
        He might be a good fit in this offense… has experience under center, throws a good deep ball and has good mobility for Kyle’s boot actions.

        1. Who needs a QB?

          Jets
          Jags(Maybe)
          Dallas(Maybe)
          New England
          Washington
          Chicago(Maybe)
          Atlanta(Maybe)

          All these teams depending on where they finish, might take a QB in the 1st. The “maybe” designation is because some of these teams might keep their current starters.

    1. That’s why Shanny is the best play caller. Makes mediocre guys look like pro bowlers.
      Of course Mullen’s will get all the credit until he has to improvise.

      Keep watching

  39. Wow, Reed has some serious Mitt’s. It’s too bad he has had such a concussion issue, otherwise he would be a potential pro bowler.

  40. He and Brady are the most protected players in the NFL… This is like that Ahmad Brooks sack penalty call that screwed SF out of homefield and made them travel to Seattle in the playoffs.

    You can see why DC’s might go the Greg Williams route and just say “screw it, you’re going to get called anyways, you might as well make it worth while.”

  41. 3rd and 1, in 2 down territory and you decide to throw the ball, and then run the ball out of the shotgun?
    Shanahan is telling us right there what he thinks of his interior line.

  42. This is rubbish……mullens is a moron…

    Kshan over thinking again….on freaking 4th and 1 you run out of shotgun..wtf..

  43. Fire Robert Saleh right now! Two times already you’ve left Kamara all alone!

    Now watch Shanny go all chicken and run the ball to kill the half.

      1. You can always make me try onelame.
        Of course you can never afford a plane ticket up to Canada with all your life savings anyways so who am I kidding!

              1. Head North to Vancouver British Columbia. When you get here. Head to Burnaby. Let me know when you cross the border and I’ll email you my address.
                Let’s say next Saturday?

  44. McKinnon is not, I repeat not a every down back! 3rd down pass catching back at best. Shoulda kept Breida & got rid of him.

    …at one point he had 13 yards on 13 carries.. And Shannan compounds his inadequacy by calling a failed 4th & 1 play for him, which set up Brees & NO for a TD!

    KD with some shaky play calling today.

  45. Mullens…….how many more fckups …….that WR he was throwing to was covered.. …

    You spent all those years on the bench to get worse…

    1. Mullens is a very smart qb, but I think he is more of a 1 read qb than Jimmy is. He seems to often make up his mind where he is going with the football prior to the snap. He has a good feel for this and is often right but he throws a lot of dumb looking picks when he is wrong.

      1. We can’t go into 2021 with Mullen’s as the starter or bridge QB.
        If people can’t see what he can do by now, that’s embarrassing! He sucks.

      2. Not sure he is so smart. CGJ is continuously getting pressure and even a sack on him. I’m not sure if it’s Mullens not recognizing it repeatedly or if it’s the fault of protection that was called to try and stop it. His blitzing is killing the offense.

        1. That depends on the play. For the most part it’s been on Mullens IMO, as CGJ has been a free rusher, but the backs have missed a few blocks as well.

          That said, at this point, some of this has be on Kyle. He needs to scheme accordingly for this blitz now, knowing Mullens limitations.

            1. It is on the qb, but once you know the qb is not reacting properly you either have to replace him or account for it in your play calling. Failure to account for your players limitations is a failure on the coaches part.
              It would be like if a qb repeatedly threw to a wr who always dropped the ball. It’s still the receivers fault for dropping the ball but at some point you have to start placing some of the blame on the qb for even throwing him the ball.

        2. Mullens seems to go into a funk after he makes a mistake. After his first Int, he almost threw two more, then threw the one in the end zone.
          Mullens’ greatest career roadblock could be his inability to forget a bad play and move on to the next one.

          The NFL draft can’t come soon enough!
          If there’s one positive for me, it’s that the team has never stopped playing hard regardless of the score. The competitive culture is still there, all we need now are the right players.

        1. I can call him smart because he often correctly diagnosis where the ball should go pre-snap and gets the ball out quickly.
          Given his physical limitations that is the main reason he made it to the league at all. Smart qb’s are not always good qb’s.

    1. That was Richie James Jr. saying “My god our QB’s SUCK!”

      They really do, and so does our Special Teams, which, other than Gould, is laughably bad at this point!

  46. I guess it was the special team’s turn to be not-so-special. Their muffs and gaffes led to 17 Saints’ points.

    Mullens’ brain can’t move his arm at NFL speed. He knows when and where he needs to throw but he can’t do it. He knew that it needed to be a back shoulder throw to Aiyuk but he threw it inside :(

  47. why look for a new quarterback when you have an awful o line and running backs that cant pass protect. Mckinnon is terrible he cant make anybody miss,he cant pass block and he is as slow as hell. many cuts coming this off season

  48. This is where Mullens really shines. Stat padding in garbage time…. or maybe even that’s too much for him this time around….

      1. Yeah, going forward regardless of if they stick with Jimmy or not, I hope they draft a new qb that at least has the requisite talent/skills to become a starter one day. Especially if they are going to continue holding onto 3 qb’s.

      2. The idea of him as a bridge went out the window after the Philly game.
        Why anyone thought different is crazy. I’m sure they know now.

      3. Grant will likely find a way to blame Kyle.
        Probably saying stuff like why didn’t Kyle scheme up those “Jimmy Gimmies”, he obviously want’s Nick to fail.

      4. If they are drafting a QB in the first round, they probably won’t be using a bridge. Question then is whether Mullens can be a decent backup. From what we are seeing, they’d be better off bringing in a better backup option in case the rookie isn’t up to speed to start the season.

          1. A rebuild is in order but it’s not a complete rebuild. They have to make the playoffs next year. This roster when healthy is pretty good.
            But offseason priorities:

            1. Fire Robert Saleh
            2. Keep or replace Jimmy G
            3.Corner, safety
            4. Pass rush
            5. Shanny grows a pair. Too many times playing safe. Safe is the easiest way to lose.

          2. I don’t see it as a rebuild per se. As Prime points out, the team is still strong around the QB. The chances of winning the SB would be low, sure (in fact if they won a SB with a rookie QB I believe it would be the first time a rookie QB ever wins it), but they should definitely be competing for the playoffs. And then by 2022 the idea would be the team is right back in the SB mix with a window of at least a few years.

            1. Today you can clearly identify how important a QB is. Shanny played it too safe and Mullen’s took way too many chances with a skill set not there to make those chances work.
              If we get Bosa back plus an additional pass rush, it’s still a championship defense.

              On offense, Shanny better find a QB who he can trust and execute a win type offense. Not an offense where he is trying to hide his QB’s deficiencies and where he has to call the perfect plays every single series.

              This is the exact same type of offensive approach we had with Alex Smith. Run the ball until you have to pass and when you pass, take the absolute easy, for sure type pass completion.

              #draftKyleTraskkidhas
              stones!

  49. did anyone see in Dallas the long lines of people in cars waiting to get free food……..

    things are really tough out there –

  50. The 9ers need a big infusion of young cheap talent this off season. I see them finishing 6-10 with a pick between 7 and 10. I hope they trade back multiple times ending up with about 10 picks. They need to draft a QB round 4 or later keep JG for one more year. I believe they will make the playoffs as a wild card team. They need to use the same draft strategy the next year and by then their salary cap woes should be done and they hopefully will have restocked the talent they need. If you are looking for our future Qb do yourself a favor, take a look at Ian Book.

  51. I am still proud of the Niners. They fought hard, and was one score from tying it up in the 4th. Unfortunately, they made way too many unforced errors, that basically had them defeat themselves.
    .
    Glad the Mullens hype has died down. He just does not have enough support. He can make plays, but his inconsistency dooms him to defeat.
    .
    KS will get some second guessing, with his 4th down play running into the teeth of the defense. However, I will commend him for using his time outs wisely, to stop the clock. He had a game plan that could have achieved victory, but the turnovers and mistakes were too much to overcome.
    .
    The Saints will not be swaggering. They are staggering, with the injuries to Drew Brees and Chauncey Gardner.
    .
    Players who impressed me were- Javon Kinlaw. He had a good game with 1.5 sacks. His run defense was stout. Kerry Hyder had a high motor, and seemed to always be around the ball. Jason Verrett helped the DBs hold the high powered Saints to 139 yards passing. Jimmie Ward made plays, but also dropped a pick. Warner put in some big hits. Reed made some fantastic catches.
    .
    Players who did not shine were- Richie James, who went from hero to goat in 2 games. Ken Webster needs to know where the ball is. Mullens with his 2 picks, along with the Saint defense dropping 3 other possible picks.
    .
    In the 2017 draft, the Niners had the 66th and 67th picks in the third round. They chose Ahkello Witherspoon with the 66th pick, but then traded away the 67th pick for the Saints second round pick in 2018. The Saints chose Alvin Kamara with that 67th pick. The Niners compounded that mistake in 2018 by using that pick with a third round pick, to move up 15 spots to select Dante Pettis. Oof.

    1. Seb,
      I think Webster getting hit by the punt was not his fault but it was Trent Taylors. He made a fair catch signal then at the last second decided that he was going to let it drop. His verbal warning to his teammates came very very late. Webster does not have eyes in the back of his head he needs warning. Did you notice that Taylor was pulled from punt returning after that. (which did not work out well with James fumble.

      1. Exactly. Trent Taylor was given the hook too quickly, for something he had no control over. It was just a fluke bounce, but Webster still should have had enough awareness to look where the ball is, especially after Taylor called for a fair catch.
        .
        KS seems to want to punish players for messing up. This leading by fear, just makes the players uptight, and not calm and in control.

      1. What a defeatist. Sounds like you like losing. But of course, you are such a loser, anyways, you really can relate to losing. Looks like you lost November 3rd, too. You say you do not care, but you are lying, like a sore loser.
        .
        Any supposed Niner fan who predicts the Cowboys will defeat the San Francisco 49ers, is not a true, die hard, faithful Niner fan, in my book. You have the IQ of a paramecium if you want to predict a Mike Nolan led defense with a 2-7 record, can defeat the Niners.
        .
        Since you are a closet Cowboy fan, go join the Blogging with the Boys. They tend to bloviate a lot. They are happy they are tanking, from what I read. I hate tanking, because it is the wrong mindset to have. I still think the Niners have a chance to make the playoffs, especially with certain teams losing, and the expanded playoff format.

    1. I suggest we wait for the Niners to take a lead (like 10-0 today) in the rest of the games, and just declare victory while the Niners are ahead.
      That will make us feel better while the Niners inch towards a high draft pick….

  52. Interesting musical chairs with backfield: Moore replacing Tartt, and Harris replacing Al-Shaair. Wonder if that had a beneficial effect on the pass D.

    1. Michael Thomas and Emmanuel Sanders combined for three catches and 33 yards. Thomas caught just two of seven targets while Sanders was targeted once.

  53. This has been a season from hell for the 49ers, but games like this one at least give us glimpses of the potential their two first round picks possess. Both Kinlaw and Aiyuk were good. Aiyuk has now put three straight impressive games together.

    1. True, Kinlaw was at least partially responsible for 4 stops on 3rd down.
      Pass Breakup, Stuffing T. Hill, Sack, and Partial sack.

      Brandon, was just being his usual awesome self.

      1. Yup, I felt that the defense played very well against the Saints. Our mistakes on special teams put the saints offense in short field scoring positions.

        I believe that had Jimmy been healthy and played in the game, he would given the team a much better chance at winning – but that’s neither here nor there at this point.
        Time to race to the finish line and work on next year’s draft!
        Baring any further injuries and plugging some roster holes we should see the real 49ers next year.

        1. Ha Ha Ha, true, At this point… I think I am rooting more for players to stay healthy than I am for them to win the games. My nature as a Fan makes me root for the team always… but in reality they would likely be better off if they lost out, stayed healthy and got the best draft pick possible.

        2. There is no doubt a healthy JG gives the team a better chance to win than Mullens. Any debate on that, which was always ridiculous, I think has firmly been put to bed by now.

          Regardless of which direction they go at QB next year they really need to address the OL or it won’t matter. Re-sign Williams, put a rocket up McGlinchey to get himself bulked up again because getting put on your a$$ repeatedly is unacceptable, make him compete with Shon Coleman for the RT job (and make it a real competition), add a new starting calibre centre, and add another OG that can genuinely compete for a starting spot (not a Compton calibre backup). The centre spot in particular is the key though, assuming they re-sign Williams.

          1. Yes sir! Scooter.
            There are some definite holes to fill to get the team back to the high bar they set for themselves last year.
            Crazy, crazy 2020 year on so many levels. Any modicum of normalcy in 2021 will be much appreciated.

    1. Was this a Grant quote?

      He was blaming Shanahan for the loss and Nick’s poor play again I saw. Yes, Shanahan has some questionable calls and should be called out for them the 3rd and 4th and 1 sequence was crap. However, to essentially gloss over Mullens role in the debacle was kind of ridiculous.

        1. I will disagree with Grant. They did not make the change to Moore because of him, so no hurray’s. It was just a logical move, with the next man up after Tartt went in IR.
          .
          I will vehemently disagree with him about Aiyuk. No no no, they should not make him the punt returner. That is a good way to get him injured. They should have kept Trent Taylor in at PR. James did not play well.

          1. Seb,
            I just heard on the radio that Taylor was hurt thats why they pulled him. Off the subject, are you looking foreward to the NBA draft Wed? It could be very interesting for the Warriors.

            1. Old Coach, thanks for the information. Gosh, the Niners are dropping like flies. I hope they can rest and regroup, and have some players come back from the injured list. This past game was exciting at the beginning. Too bad they shot themselves in the foot many times.
              .
              My son is a huge Warrior fan, and he is jumping for joy over the fact that the Niners may select Wiseman. Edwards may be a safe pick.
              .
              The Warriors are sitting pretty. If Wiseman is gone by a team moving up, he wants the Warriors to trade back to get a solid veteran. He likes Jrue Holiday from the Pelicans, but that would entail moving back to 13.
              .
              I like Wendel Carter from the Bulls, for moving back to 4, then selecting Okongwu, Hayes or Avdija.
              .
              He does not like Lamelo Ball or Obi Toppin, and neither do I. Neither seem to be interested in defense, and that will be a huge factor in any Warrior selection.
              .
              The Warriors have Wiggins as trade bait, and could possibly get a desperate team that really wants to move up, and could possibly leverage out a 2021 first round pick from a trade. Embiid may also be a good pick up, if the Warriors stay in their- Win Now mode.

        2. Kind of Mood, However this is mostly due to the inactivity of the Blog… at some point this place will die off but the community here has been quite resiliant.

        3. Mood,
          “Grant is still messing with the collective mind of this blog?!”

          Yup, the Cohn Fever is hard to get rid of around here. Not sure why some of us keep going back to the Cohn Well, when we already know his shtick.

        1. Pretty much the same guy now. He’s bought into Grant’s antagonistic and overreaction opinions. Most of the content over there is about how the team screwed this or that up, should have signed this guy let that other guy go. Hindsight reporting which is so lame and unproductive and is simply meant to stir people up. The funny thing is after writing how the Niners should have re-signed Buckner, two of the players they were able to keep/acquire by letting him go, had great games yesterday in Ward and Kinlaw. Buckner is a great player but they were able to keep more pieces by letting him go and still have a first year DT as part of the deal who is still developing.

            1. Under, I agree with this guy. Shanny is playing to lose by being too conservative. No down field passing attack. At the end of half’s he is too content to just run out the clock. 3rd and long’s, handing it off. There is no semblance of attack or get after it mode.
              Now this might be because of the injuries but even last year in the SB, there was no step on the throat mentality.
              Point is we are 4-5 yesterday. Go after it. You are going against one of the best rushing defenses. Change it up, attack a little down field. I counted one deep ball attempt to Aiyuk.
              We are becoming way too predictable.

              As for Saleh, we should have fired him last year. He hasnt shown an ability to make any in game adjustments. Look at the Miami game, yesterday with Kamara, any running type of QB he has let them run wild. Time to let him go.

              1. I agree with that Razor, but you still have to make the attempts to back off the defense and maybe get a call. I mean come on, you are making it so easy for the other teams secondary and LB’s to defend. I’m seeing shades on Jimmy Raye!

              2. Prime I agree with some of the things but cowardly no. Mullins has a noddle for an arm, CJ processes information to slow, and JG cant stay on the field, like you have said many times the value of the QB has reared its ugly head this year. I don’t like making excuses but injuries have killed this team and yet they are still fighting and playing hard and that’s an intangible that gets unnoticed and stems from the coaching staff. There is no quit on this team.

              3. Aside from a declining Goodwin, Shanalynch have not been able to get themselves a decent downfield threat in a wide receiver.

            2. Under,

              Yeah, I don’t think that Shanahan is cowardly at all. Yesterday was about a predictable call on 4th and 1 and his inability to adjust to the safety blitz.

              Don’t have a problem with going for it on 4th and 1 there, but the play call was atrocious. The moment that the tight end went in motion everyone knew where the ball was going because its a play they’ve run repeatedly in similar situations this year.

          1. 3, Notanexpert,
            Aiyuk was also obtained at least partially due to Buckner trade, as the extra ammunition gained from the 1 pick tradeback allowed them to trade up for BA.

          2. Kinlaw had his best game of the season yesterday, which I wrote in a column that will post later today.

            Ward got blocked out of the way on the long kickoff return and dropped an interception that could have set the 49ers up inside Saints territory with the score still at 20-10. He did make a nice play on one throw though and stripped the ball from Hill in garbage time, but he was far from great. You should have gone with Aiyuk as the second guy instead. He’s actually better than both of them.

            As far as overreacting, not really. Before the season started I wrote that they would not have the success they did in 2019. Unfortunately they are playing pretty much exactly like what we saw from them in 2018.

            On Mullens, he played very good in the first half and threw a bad pick on their opening drive of the second half. Throw in a running game that has been nonexistent since the NE game, an offensive line that looks like a mess and no ability to make an adjustment to stop a blitzing safety and you get what we saw yesterday.

            Quarterback is a problem for this team, has been all year, but it won’t matter if the starting right tackle keeps getting knocked on his backside every week.

            1. I think Ward and another Niners player ran into each other.

              Kinlaw would look very good (as will Armstead) in third downs once Bosa returns next season.

              Mullens as all the characteristics of an average backup, not a good one. A good backup can string together a few games where they don’t make major mistakes. Mullens has trouble stringing together a few quarters of mistake-free football. IIRC, he has made mistakes even when the running game is on.

              1. 49ers have run for under 100 yards in 3 of the 4 games that Mullens has started. Philly was the outlier.

                That Int on the opening drive yesterday was a killer.

                As I said on Thursday during our round table, I don’t have a problem with Kinlaw. He didn’t have an offseason and came in as a guy who doesn’t have much skill as a pass rusher.

                For the money they’re spending on AA/Ward I would rather have Buckner, and looked to trade back if Aiyuk was unavailable at 31 and taken Shenault Jr.

  54. Steve Young pontificated that the Niners should have contingency plans for every blitz, so they automatically attack the area the blitzer left.
    .
    Too bad it looked like they could not identify the blitzer, so he came in untouched at least 5 times. It is hard to have contingency plans for something they are not aware of.

      1. So true.
        .
        Maybe they should swing out the back, so he is a safety valve. Mullens could then get rid of the ball quickly, so the blitzer does not have time to get to him.

  55. Was reading about Andrew Whitworth ‘s injury. The 38-year old Whitworth is to the Rams what Staley was to the Niners. A leader and a steadying force in the locker room with a friendly, helpful personality. The difference with Staley is that he had not missed a game since 2013 until he got injured in the second quarter of yesterday’s game with diagnosis pending the MRI. He was playing very well for the Rams.

    This brings me to Trent Williams who’s relatively young at 32. If he can stay healthy, he could be productive for 5 years or more. I’d expect the FO to target him, Juice and Bourne on the offensive side for re-signing. The cap should be closer to $195M from what I heard from Lynch.

    1. If they don’t make re-signing Williams a priority I would be shocked. But at 32 turning 33, no way am I signing him to a 5 year deal. 3 year deal maximum.

      1. I can see a 5-6 year contract which is actually a 3 year contract. Paraag has done a bunch of those. The tricky part would be how the guaranteed money is doled out considering the cap shrinkage next season.

  56. They did not protect Mullens well enough, so he took some major hits.
    .
    Mullens functions smoothly when he has time and protection. However, after several blows to the head, he seemed rattled, and off his game. Maybe they should coach Mullens to roll away from the safety blitz, after identifying where the blitz is coming from.
    .
    Maybe they should do something desperate, like using Arik Armstead as a blocking TE. Then, they could have 6 man fronts, so blitzers do not have gaping holes to run through.
    .
    Dwelley just is not a good enough blocker, and Woerner is a raw rookie. McKinnon was also exposed as a terrible blocker. Juice even whiffed on a block. Armstead used to be a forward/center in basketball, so he should be able to catch the ball, too. He sure is not shining brightly as a defensive lineman.
    .
    Yes, it would be a desperate move, but with Kittle gone, the TE squad is allowing Mullens to get bludgeoned. Keep Mullens upright and untouched, and he has a chance to continue what he did in the first quarter.

  57. Per Barrows: “Cornerback Ahkello Witherspoon was a healthy scratch for the second straight week. Asked last week why Witherspoon wasn’t in uniform, Shanahan said it was mostly a “special-teams decision.””

    Ouch! This is Pettis-level doghouse status

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