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Jalen Ramsey, the All Pro cornerback for the Jacksonville Jaguars, appeared on NFL Network this week and said Jimmy Garoppolo doesn’t deserve to rank in the NFL’s top 100 players.
Ramsey should have kept his mouth shut, but he was right.
Click here to read my column.
I suspect we’ll see many defenses adopt the “clog mid field” approach for the 1st few games…
physical DB play, jamming mid route/mid field passing lanes…
LB’s cheating up close in a show of disrespect for the new OL and RB’s…
so, early ’18 season offense checklist:
effective OZ run game getting “chunk” yardage keeping us above 4 YPC…
rcvrs separation + timing + substantive YAC along with the off schedule JG fireworks…
Kittle, Celek, Garcon, and maybe McKinnon leading the early season receiving stats…
and lots of FG’s!!!
tjf – Agree. Jimmy throws fantastic middle lasers. Teams will try to take away what Jimmy does best. Force him to win with well timed long passes and Deep outs. Feathery throws over DBs.
I think Jimmy and Kyle will stick to the laser throws, not sure JG does the “feathery” stuff so well, but maybe…
the run game really needs to make a better showing this season…
otherwise we’re in for much gnashing of teeth…
the deep out thing will often be Marquise pulling a DB or two downfield to clear out a medium route…
Goodwin’s numbers may suffer a bit till mid-season…
he’ll be a focus of D coordinators to limit Kyle’s options to under 20 yd plays…
and this will be the trap they’ll volunteer to fall into…
playing right into the midfield shenanigans that make up the Kyle & Jimmy show…and a show it shall be!
I wrote “feathery throws and deep outs” as another kind of pass teams will try to force Jimmy to throw. I Should have included this in the previous sentence for more clarity.
no, I got your point…I just think JG may not do “fade” and “arc” passes so well…
That was my point
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Hey Dana… Are you related to Donna Summer?
Cassie, with that syntax I’d say “Dana” is more likely related to Sun-Tzu.
It is a double edged sword. Jimmy G. will be more familiar with the offense and with his receivers. The Offense line should be better and the running game might be better.
The defense might be a little better and give the offense better field position and 1-3 more series per game.
Football is a constant game of adjustments, Kyle is very capable of adjusting his offense to the other teams defense. Jimmy appears to be smart enough to adapt. He also has a very quick release which covers up a lot of problems. He will also have more game experience which is extremely helpful.
“Ramsey does know his business, though. Garoppolo did not dissect the Jaguars defense that day – Kyle Shanahan did.”
More true than false for sure, although JG still had to execute. Would Hoyer or Beathard been able to execute as well as JG?
But what’s lost in the Ramsey quote is the huge compliment to Shanny. KS lit up one the best pass defenses with scheme alone according to Ramsey. Not bad, that’s why we hired KS. As you said, “Shanahan’s plan was brilliant”.
JG did have success while going off script though. We saw this throughout his five starts. Shanny’s ability to scheme and JG’s ability to go off script is huge. It’s like having two OC’s.
Go back and look at some of those throws…they were perfect. Defenders were hanging all over the recievers and JG through it right on the money…every time. That isn’t scheming, that was execution and accuracy.
Ron,
I said it was more true than false. I didn’t give Shanny all the credit, but he does deserve a lot of it. I then said JG still had to execute, and questioned if Hoyer and CJ would have been as effective.
In my opinion, when you have receivers wide open, that is credited to scheme or defensive mistakes. Throws made in tight windows will generally tally a point for the QB. Having both good scheme and good QBing bodes well for this team.
80, I’m going to pick some bits here ?.
While I agree that Shanahan is a master at scheeming against defenses, Jimmy deserves a ton of credit for that game.
Every pass play that is called has different route combinations, progressions and timing. The QB has to go through those progressions to find the open man, and do so quickly against that pass rush. He is the one making the snap decisions and must get a large helping of credit because of it.
Jimmy completed over 66 percent of his passeds against them and had a 102 rating.
Don’t get me wrong Shanahan’s scheme was brilliant but he was getting guys open all year. His qbs just weren’t making the right read, were missing throws or didn’t time it up correctly. Jimmy allowed him to empliment his attack.
That said, yes it will be interesting to see how defenses adjust to Jimmy and how Kyle and Jimmy counter those adjustments.
My bad. I didn’t mean to imply that JG was anything less than great that day. That was the game that sold me on JG as a franchise QB. Garoppolo didn’t just complete passes against Jax, he completed the right passes. It really was a perfect marriage between JG and KS.
I mentioned that JG was successful going off script in that game and his other starts. I didn’t think I was being too dismissive of JG in that game. But you’re the second one to mention it, so shame on me. I guess I’m a hater now.
:-)
80,
You’re fine. I was just nit picking. The reality is no 2 nfl jobs are so co dependant as that of coach and qb. A great coach can look like a fool if his QB can’t make the right reads. And a terrible coach can turn a great QB into an average Joe by putting him in terrible positions. They both did exceptionally well in that game.
No doubt both a good scheme and good QB play are important, but to suggest that Jimmy G’s precise throws weren’t a major part of the win or that he didn’t make something from nothing on several broken plays is erroneous. The most famous was the sidearm throw to TT in the end zone. Another great play I thought he made was his first pass of that game which was a sideline out to MG as Jimmy was being hit. The play went for eight yards, but the pass in the air was about 20 yards.
Just view the highlights shown in the link below and you can see a number of high precision passes exemplified most by the pass to Bourne between two JAX players at about the one minute mark of the 1st Q (surgically placed as noted by Lofton).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppk5AvlTRK8
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/27/49ers-garoppolo-ready-for-another-faceless-foe/
“McVay and Shanahan, a year removed from being hot-shot offensive coordinators, both spoke highly of Garoppolo’s ability to improvise on a broken play, or go “off-schedule,” as is this season’s trendy phrase.”
“The off-schedule plays have been the best thing to me, personally,” Shanahan said.
“You see it show up consistently, his ability to speed up his release and change his arm angle, even when his body position has taken him to the left and he’s throwing back across the grain,” McVay said. “That’s a small example of a lot of great things you’ve seen from him over the last handful of weeks.”
Grant is right that DCs have studied the QB and scheme; see also: Kapernick, Colin.
But they will be studying Shanny’s stripped down 2017 playbook play calls. Jimmy came midseason and learned a truncated version of the offense.
With the full off season work together I think KS and JG will have some new things to show.
Ramsey’s remarks are OK, kinda like Deon, as long as he walks the walk. He does.
OTOH the other two QBs before Jimmy were running Shanny’s scheme too….so the difference is..?
But SF put up 44 points on his Defense, so maybe Ramsey shouldn’t be bringing it up…..to remind everyone.
Good point.
Two things….Garoppolo definitely played well both inside and outside of the scheme. What they did against Jax should translate well against defenses such as Seattle, SD which are similar in how you attack them. Should bode well.
Against Jax the offense put up 37 points, not 44. Doesn’t change the point, but most continue to make that mistake. Offense also benefited from short fields with 2 TD drives totaling 44 yards.
Meaningful or meaningless…..?
*38
Garoppolo’s ability to sustain the level of play from last year will definitely be the biggest question surrounding the 49ers in 2018, but it’s very likely that teams won’t have a “book” on him until 2019.
Dang Grant.
Your girl still won’t let you rip down the Kinmy G poster she has up huh? ?
Who threw those balls? Shanahan or Jimmy G?
Sounds bitter. So I guess no QB shreds defenses since their playbook is written by someone else. There isn’t a qb or offense in the league that doesn’t attack defenses weaknesses.
And this top 100 thing was voted on by his peers. So obviously they think he’s good enough to be in there, and you don’t play with them. So guess who’s opinion has more weight?
If Shanahan is as good as Grant thinks he is, Jimmy G will be great next season. Every time an opposing D coordinator adjusts to JG, Shanahan will just adjust to the new scheme and carve it up. I’m happy to see Grant has a new bromance with Shanahan, kind of like his Pops and Walsh.
“Only one 49ers wide receiver had more than 25 receiving yards in that game. ”
What about tight ends and running backs?
“What about tight ends and running backs?”
That was the whole basis of Ramsey saying it was about scheme, and he’s right. You beat that defense with the underneath stuff to TE’s and RB’s.
and the underneath stuff to the TE’s and RB’s depended on forcing LB’s and DB’s to honor the semblance of a run game Kyle kept using as a decoy, stubbornly calling “yardage neutral” run snaps to keep JAX D off balance, unable to clog mid route passing lanes…
“and the underneath stuff to the TE’s and RB’s depended on forcing LB’s and DB’s to honor the semblance of a run game”
Which is why I kept ripping Lil Shanny for being so unbalanced in the first half of the season.
and how much of that “unbalanced” play calling was due to QB play before the CHI game?
They were closer to 70% during the first half of the season with Hoyer and Beathard.
if you mean 70% pass, which I think you mean, I suggest poor QB play as culprit forcing KS to go pass only, as counter-intuitive as this seems…
Hoyer & CJ’s skill sets gave permission for oppo D’s to stack the box, along with our poor OL play making the issue even worse…
there were brief exceptions where Hoyer (1st Lambs game) and CJ (NYG and 4th qtr. of 2nd SEA game) showed an ability to extend drives w/o run game help…
neither Hoyer nor CJ (at that point) were good enough to give Kyle a way to convert 3rd dns consistently…
but the run game was even more futile…till JG rode into town…
Hard to blame the QB’s when it was a trend that began to change when Beathard was still the QB.
as we’ve discussed before, CJ’s final game- the 2nd SEA game, saw very little run/pass balance in the 4th qtr…
in that 4th qtr. over 80% of O snaps were pass plays or broken up pass plays…
I’m well aware. I chart the games as they’re happening. The 2nd half of the season, even the 3 games before Garoppolo were called much different than the first half of the season.
Also, they were more successful running the first 8 weeks than the last 8.
Good point tjf.
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/11/7/16615818/49ers-run-pass-statistics-are-not-good-2017
From Nov 7th.
“Later he mentioned that someone told him the 49ers had run six plays this season while holding a lead.”
http://ninersradio.com/index.php/2017/11/10/49ers-vs-giants-week-10-preview/
“1) Can Kyle Shanahan catch his balance?
Over the last three weeks with a rookie quarterback who was making his first three NFL starts and an offensive line that has been banged up with injuries and allowing hits to the quarterback at an alarming rate Shanahan has done little to help his guys out. Of the 200 plays called by Shanahan during this time 137, or 68.5%, have been passes. This reached comical levels last week against Arizona when he called 56 pass plays to just 17 runs.
In the first half of last week’s game, prior to the final two minute drive Shanahan had called passes on 17 of 25 plays despite the fact that the run game had been finding success and averaging slightly over four yards per attempt.
The 49ers only touchdown drive of the game came on their first possession of the second half. On that possession Shanahan stuck with the run, calling five running plays on the drive and closing the gap to only 4 points. Unfortunately, they would run the ball only 2 more times for the remainder of the game.
While this may be a lost season, this should be a concern and something that fans keep an eye on. Shanahan has a track record of getting a little too cute from time to time. Despite having the second lowest passer rating in the NFL the 49ers have attempted the most passes.
Perhaps Shanahan didn’t learn from his Super Bowl mistake after all.”
Hoyer starts
Car: 15 rushes 54 total plays 27%
Sea: 19/48 39%
LA: 33/74 44%
AZ: 27/79 34%
Ind: 22/70 31%
Was: 20/70 28%
CJ
Dal: 22/65 33%
Phi 24/64 37%
Ari: 17/73 23%
NY: 33/58 56%
Sea: 24/67 35%
Garoppolo
Chi: 34/73 46%
Hou: 31/66 47%
Ten: 22/68 32%
Jax: 35/66 53%
LA: 30/63 47%
The high number against NY coincides with CJ having his best game. The Niners converted 8 of 12 first downs that day. They also weren’t playing from behind the whole game. Better QB play, better balance in play calling.
Yeah I already know the numbers. Stating that Shanahan was off balance was based off in game notes and the play call charting.
For example, Seattle 2 looks pretty pass heavy, but that was mostly due to the long drive that ended the game. In reality they were pretty balanced that day. Or it could be little things like going off tendency and calling a run on 2nd & 15 against the Giants to set up a more manageable 3rd down play.
It’s a credit to Shanahan that he adjusted in the back half of the season. If you’d like to argue against that it’s fine.
It’s a credit to Shanahan that he adjusted in the back half of the season.
Makes a world of difference when you actually have a competent quarterback. Shanahan is good but Garoppolo makes him better.
Yes, Garoppolo and Shanahan make a good tandem but Shanahan’s turn around with the 49ers began 2 games prior.
“Yeah I already know the numbers.”
Sure, if you say so.
“The 2nd half of the season, even the 3 games before Garoppolo were called much different than the first half of the season.”
Nope. Lowest run percentage (23%) of the season against Az. 35% against Seattle, compared to 34% in the first 8 games. If you really did chart the games, you should checked your notes.
You can say Seattle 2 was more balanced than the final numbers indicate. Well guess what? Teams throw more when they are trailing and have short drives because of poor QB play. That was tjf’s point and I agree with it.
Seattle 2 was 31 passes to 23 runs until the drive that ended the game.
Saying 3 games prior was a brain fart. You’re right about the Arizona game. That was the tipping point. Hell, read my comment that you replied to and I was even talking about his lack of balance from that game.
“Saying 3 games prior was a brain fart.”
Fair enough, we all have them.
“Seattle 2 was 31 passes to 23 runs until the drive that ended the game.”
That’s usually how it works. Teams have to abandon the run when they’re trailing late or earlier if they’re getting blew out.
The 49ers weren’t getting blown out in their early season games though.
“The 49ers weren’t getting blown out in their early season games though.”
They still had late drives where they were trailing. Compare the end of the first LA game to the end of the Jax game. Against LA they passed, against Jax they ran because they were winning.
The Rams game was their highest % of run plays though prior to week 10 though.
“The Rams game was their highest % of run plays though prior to week 10 though.”
And it would have been higher if they were winning. Teams have to throw more when trailing late, that’s football. I know you know this.
When did we abandon the run against Seattle? The first drive of the 2nd half was run heavy. The next was 1 rush and two passes, 3 and out. OK, maybe they should have ran Hyde or Breida instead of CJ, maybe they should have ran 2 out of the 3 plays. But CJ failed to convert the 3rd down (3rd down conversions have a big impact in play calling).
Seattle scored a TD on the ensuing drive making the score 21-6. The Niners get the ball back with 14:54 left in the 4th while down by 15, it’s not surprising that they would throw more for the rest of the game.
Regardless, both games were pretty balanced in their play calling.
If you don’t agree that Shanahan improved as the season went on it’s ok.
“If you don’t agree that Shanahan improved as the season went on it’s ok.”
And where did I say that Jack? Another blatant misrepresentation of my take. I said Shanny improved when he got JG. He got slightly better with Beathard. CJ was slightly better than Hoyer. Garoppolo was much better than Hoyer and CJ.
And of course you have selectively forgotten that I was one of the few people that agreed with you when you were calling for more balance in the first half of the season. I just didn’t go on about it 24-7.
Go on about it 24/7? Lol. Ok. ?
Almost missed this nugget, “He got slightly better with Beathard. CJ was slightly better than Hoyer.”
Yeah, other than the fact that he had a lower completion %, a higher interception %, a lower TD % and a lower QB rating he was totally better than Hoyer. ?
Laugh it up, but here’s the numbers.
Run %
Hoyer 34%
Beathard 36%
Garoppolo 45%
There was a slight improvement in balance with CJ, 2% more than with Hoyer. A major improvement with JG, 9% more than with CJ. NY was one game, then they were closer to their average the following week at 35%, (34% with Hoyer and 36 % with CJ). The NY game also came one week after their lowest run percentage (23%) of the season. One game against NY isn’t a trend.
If we switched positions for this discussion, you’d be saying the NY game was an outlier. But it wasn’t an outlier. CJ played well and converted 3rd downs, similar to JG.
“he was totally better than Hoyer”
Yeah, CJ who had more passing yards, higher QBR, higher yards per pass, and an added theat as a rusher (CJ 136 YDs rushing, 5.2 YPC, 3TDs).
I will laugh it up. You just spent 3 paragraphs with stats and stuff that my last comment had nothing to to with.
Beathard had more attempts than Hoyer, I hope he passed for more yards. I don’t pay attention to the ESPN QBR. Too subjective. He had a higher % of negative plays and a lower % of positive plays. Wow, .3 yards per pass more. Sweetness.
But if you want to say that Beathard is better that’s cool. lol
Neither are very good regardless.
Passer rating doesn’t tell the whole story either.
“Neither are very good regardless.”
Absolutely. But I think QBR is a better stat than passer rating. Plus CJ can run. Btw, CJ’s 26 carries affected the teams run %.
Too subjective when you start throwing in win probability and expected points.
Passer rating is just throw and catch, no context. A screen pass that goes for 70 yards and a TD is a huge spike. A perfect pass that goes off the WRs hand and gets picked off is a huge drop in passer rating.
CJ had an higher average per pass, so this quote doesn’t hold water.
“Beathard had more attempts than Hoyer, I hope he passed for more yards.” Hoyer tried to play safe and still threw as many picks as TDs.
They’re both bad, I can see why you think Hoyer is better, it’s certainly debatable. But CJ is better IMO.
A better explanation.
http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/123701/how-is-total-qbr-calculated-we-explain-our-quarterback-rating
The basic question: Will Garoppolo’s increased familiarity with the offense and teammates outweigh increased attention by defensive coordinators on Garoppolo (and 49er pass catchers too).
Things that could mitigate any “book.”
– Additions of McKinnon, Garcon and Pettis catching passes
– All skill players being more familiar with the offense, and each other
– 49er coaches being more familiar with the skill players strengths
– (likely) Improved run game making play action more effective
The big secret (that’s not really a secret)… Shanahan intends to have a run oriented offense this year. A run game with more play action will help keep Garoppolo healthy.
we were saying the same things about Shanny’s plan last year with Hoyer–
run oriented O…
credible run game…
play action keeping Hoyer upright…
etc., etc….
only the run game wasn’t credible last season, especially the games Hoyer and CJ played in…
True. Spending major draft and salary capital on McGlinchey, McKinnon, Richburg will hopefully turn intentions into reality.
“only the run game wasn’t credible last season, especially the games Hoyer and CJ played in…”
Not true. Over the first 11 games the 49ers averaged 4.28 ypc. That dropped to 3.71 in the 5 games started by Garoppolo.
I agree, Ramsey talks too much. Idea’s can be brilliant as long as you have someone that can bring them into effect. Foles routed Zimmer’s defense. I like our chances….
Ramsey’s comments have been blown out of proportion. He absolutely was right that JG doesn’t deserve a spot in the top 100 yet. And while JG played very well that game (and to be fair to Ramsey, he did say JG is good) he wisely didn’t test the CBs much. The only area I think Ramsey is a bit off is saying that it was the scheme that beat them. Yes, of course having a good scheme was part of it. But good QBs take what the D gives them. JG did that very well against the Jags, and made some great throws in doing so.
As for it being harder this year, completely agree. It will be. He will inevitably have some bad games. But this is where pairing a good scheme and play caller with a good QB makes the difference. While it will no doubt be tougher for JG I also think the offense will be harder to predict and defend with JG knowing the full playbook.
“He absolutely was right that JG doesn’t deserve a spot in the top 100 yet.”
If there is no criteria for a minimum number of games, then Jimmy does deserve to be in the top 100 based on the five games he played. He and the offense lead the NFL or were in the top five in many statistics. If you put a minimum criteria of one season, then obviously he can’t be considered in the discussion.
“Ramsey’s comments have been blown out of proportion.”
Of course they have. Anything even remotely viewed as a slight towards Garoppolo is met with a strident defense of the guy.
Not true, Hammer. Many of “us” Jimmy supporters recognize that he has issues with the deep ball. Shoup had a good post late last night about how the game was won by both Shanahan’s scheme and Jimmy’s play (I posted something similar yesterday, but think that Shoup provided a better explanation; also Rocket had a good and what I consider accurate post about this at around 7:49 PM yesterday). Ramsey’s crying is sour grapes over getting whipped by a great scheme and great QB play. What more could 49ers fans ask for: great scheme coupled with great QB play. Seems like the majority of his NFL comrades don’t agree with him.
I fully expect Jimmy to have some bad games this year. During the games last year you ‘ripped’ him at times for throwing passes that should have been intercepted. At the time, I didn’t agree but upon watching the games again, you are right. Still I like that he is somewhat aggressive and I fully expect he’ll improve in that area. I’ve said this ad nauseum, but I really hated Tomsula’s philosophy of “you can’t be afraid to punt”. Further, you have to take into account that he was thrown into the deep end of the pool last year.
Yeah, I’m well aware of the whole “I can talk bad about my team/players, but no one else should” phenomenon.
As for Shoup’s comment, I agree. Basically said the same thing when Ramsey’s comment was first posted a couple days ago.
“Jack Hammer says:
June 26, 2018 at 12:59 pm
Ramsey is right in that the scheme was spot on for that defense, but it also took Garoppolo to properly execute the scheme. The Jax and Seattle schemes are almost identical, and the results of those games show the importance of being able to execute.”
Jack, Cubus,
The funny thing is I think we all basically agree, but perhaps disagreed with how it was worded :). I think we as posters to often miss the forest through the trees. This happens a lot to us posters.
Did we kick their rumps with scheme or quarterback play? How nice it is to have a “good problem.” I’ll take it.
Wondering if Ramsey comment could be taken as back handed criticism of Jax defensive coaches?
This is a decent article, with a solid premise. However, setting aside the silly baseball – hitter VS pitcher analogy (an egregiously oversimplified analogy because a pitcher/batter matchup in baseball is far less complex than a QB/vs 11 defenders – matchup) it’s par for the course, as of late, that Grant would present only one side of the two-sided coin.
While it’s true that DC’s had limited Garoppolo game film in which to scheme against, which is admittedly an advantage for Garoppolo and Kyle, this advantage is surely counterbalanced by the fact that Garoppolo was operating from a truncated, watered down version of Kyle’s playbook, which is an advantage for the opposing defense. Jimmy was also making a lot of his reads via memorization of the game plan rather than real-time analysis, again, advantage defense.
I could go on and on about other factors like missing training camp, missing his best receiver, relying on rookie receivers, things like that, because this is such compelling subject matter, but I shouldn’t have to point out such an obvious undersight! Considering the unusual circumstances involved in Jimmy’s 5 starts last season, this subject was taylor made for an compelling and complex debate. And it’s certainly current news right now thanks to Jalen Ramsey (who comes across as a poor loser), but you’ve completely missed the mark by oversimplifying the subject matter, and presenting only one side of such an obviously complex, two-sided coin.
And what a shock it is that, having presented only one side, you chose to argue on the side of 49ers pessimism. SMH
“This is a decent article, with a solid premise. However…”
Par for the course. At least you stopped with the caps and bold-face type.
What I meant to add is that I do agree, the jury is still out on Garoppolo. 7 starts certainly isn’t enough of a sample size to predict the long term trajectory of any NFL QB’s career. Adjustments will need to be made on Jimmy’s and Kyle’s part because the NFL is like a living, breathing organism, always evolving with time. And Jimmy will face adversity at some point as well, and we’ll see how he responds.
I simply forgot to include these things in my last post out of frustration for the fact that Grant seems unwilling to give us any semblance of balanced 49ers analysis these days. When you miss the mark as dramatically as he has lately (not just 49ers analysis, but also Warriors, but I won’t go there) one has to ask, is he stretched too thin? Is it laziness? Or is he simply unable to look at things from a neutral, balanced perspective for some reason?
Can we get some ray of 49ers sunshine on this blog anymore, or is it going to be all doom and gloom, playing the devil’s advocate-24/7 type of reporting? Because boy, this is one subject matter that sure was ripe for a balanced complex write up.
There’s nothing doom and gloom about this column. Go read Joe Fann or David Fucillo.
I haven’t read a David Fucillo article on this subject yet, but I follow him closely. However, here is a short piece from his SB Nation colleague on the subject.
Jimmy Garoppolo signed a brand new long-term deal this offseason after starting his 49ers career with a 5-0 mark. He has been given a lot of praise and there are big expectations of him and the 49ers this season. He was ranked in the Top 100 players by his peers, but one opponent from last season doesn’t think he belongs just yet.
Jaguars CB Jalen Ramsey did not think Jimmy should have been in the Top 100 NFL players list this season. Jimmy and the 49ers offense hung 44 points on the Jaguars defense last season in Jimmy’s 4th start. Jalen thinks that was more on Kyle Shanahan’s scheme and there being no film on Jimmy than Jimmy’s actual play. Jalen thinks defenses were not prepared for Jimmy last season. He did mention that he thinks Jimmy will be a good player.
While Jalen may have a point about the limited playing time Jimmy has had in his career, Jimmy still hung 44 points (it was actually 37, but still, Jimmy dominated their defense) on him and the NFL’s best defense. He did play 3 games before he handed the Jags that loss so the Jaguars had some tape of his play. It should also be taken into account that he had limited time learning Kyle’s playbook, so he was not able to learn the whole scheme when he faced Jacksonville. This season, defenses will have plenty of film to look at and Jimmy will have had a full offseason to learn Kyle’s full playbook. With a good season this year, Jimmy may turn Jalen into a believer.
Riveting stuff.
Yah, not a great article, also, not a negative one either.
Give me riveting Grant, from a neutral observers standpoint. That’s all I’m asking. Where are your thoughts on the unusual circumstances of Jimmy’s run last season, and the why-vs-why not, they will come into play in 2018? Where’s the stuff on going through a full training camp, and working off an expanded playbook? Or on the possible effect an improved run game may or may not have on Jimmy’s 2018 season compared to the end of 2017? Maybe it’s more about will Jimmy pick up in 2018 where he left off, as opposed to, things will beDid you forget that part of the equation?
And give me a break on all of these Zimmerman – exotic blitzes that supposedly Shanahan has never seen? Really, he’s never seen?
My column isn’t negative, either. It’s neutral. It’s impossible to rate Garoppolo right now.
Oops, screwed part of that last post up.
It’s negative because you basically only presented the reasons why Jimmy had it easier in 2017 than he will in 2018. Can’t you see that? Nothing about a full camp, a better understanding of an expanded playbook, improved running game, etc.
So yes …. that’s obviously unbalanced to the negative side, leaving out huge chunks of …. why he may, you know, actually “improve” next season (insert Grant “GASP” here) , which is something we hope for as fans, you know? If you can’t see that, maybe that’s the problem.
Hold on. You think he will have it easier next season?
I’m not saying leave out the negative Grant. I’m saying add the positive, to create “balance” in you work. It’s good for the soul!
I hear you.
I think he will have it harder in some ways and easier in others. That’s the whole point, and that’s the way football tends to work, especially when you play one season without the benefit of a full training camp and playbook, and optimistically, a better balanced offense thanks to an improved running game. Yet, ON THE FLIPSIDE (see what I did there Grant) there was less game film for defenses to use against Jimmy this year, and he really didn’t have to deal with the adversity of, perhaps, back to back losses, or a really bad game, etc.
I think he will have it harder. That’s my opinion. This is an opinion piece.
But my point is that, whether he has it easier or harder next year is going to be based on more factors than whether or not the league has more game film on Jimmy. Sure, next year brings new challenges, but it’s such a compelling debate, not simply because teams will have more film on him next year, but also because he had so much success this season despite so many things going against him. Don’t you think, in order to get the full picture, we really have to take all of the factors into account, including the fact that Jimmy will be operating with a a full training camp under his belt, which means a much bigger playbook in 2018, and there is at least an argument to be made that the 49ers should, at least in theory, be better at running the football in 2018 as well?
Seems to me that, without taking all of these factors into account, you are oversimplifying the subject, thus you are more likely to come to a flawed conclusion and/or opinion.
At the very least, we need to go back and look at last seasons Jag’s game. USA today broke down the game film and charted every completion Jimmy threw in that game against the Jags. They charted whether the receiver was “open”, “wide open”, or well covered – forcing Jimmy to throw into a “tight window”. And based on this they made a determination as to which completions were more about scheme, and which ones were more about Jimmy the QB. Jimmy completed 70%, and according to their chart, it was almost exactly 50-50. Jimmy made a number of off schedule and improvised plays as well, so even based on last year’s game, it’s a reach to say his success was all about scheme.
That’s just a small sample of factors involved with this question. And to take a one sided view on such a complex subject is, IMO, disappointing. You’re a talented writer Grant, and you’re very knowledgeable as well. I just feel like a lot of it is lost on trying to play the contrarian, the skeptic, and Devil’s advocate 80% of the time.
49reasons, how about one of those factors is that, full scheme, limited scheme or no scheme, JG will be getting more real game experience than the 1/2 season total he has thus far.
That can only better his decision making, better his ability to react to all these new looks that Grant is expecting to stymie him.
@49reasons.
So, agree… That book on Garoppolo that is being looked upon as the be all answer is being given way to much potential potency.
The Garoppolo that was seen last season isn’t coming back this year. The Garoppolo that brilliantly held his own under incredible circumstances will have the team’s top receiver to help him, this year in Garcon. No matter how bad the offensive line continues to get criticized it won’t equal how poor that unit from last season was.
Carlos “I can’t find the right hole” Hyde who isn’t built for the zone stretch run is now living and residing in the Cleveland area, and has been replaced with a running back who probably won’t miss touchdown passes was downfield. The new running back also has the kind of speed that is going to make him one of Shanahan’s main weapons when it comes to setting up mismatches.
The ideal thing is that all the 49ers receivers are fast and run routes well. Again with the added time with Garoppolo I doubt there exist a DC in the league that can just shut everything off for the 49ers with Shanahan play calling from a book that he now knows something about. Contrary to to this report Grant, and no disrespect meant, but I really doubt Zimmer can out coach Shanahan.
Shanahan is the same coach who tore Belichick apart in the last Super Bowl that they met up in. Belichick is the best there is at taking a potent offense apart. Sure the Falcons lost, but it took a miracle and a pathetic Falcons defense to win that game for the Patriots.
What is becoming more and more prevalent is the lean towards now that the world has viewed Jimmy Garoppolo he’ll be adjusted to and beaten. I can agree that he’ll have to prove the naysayers wrong, but it’s easy to see that kid is not RG3, Brock Osweiller, Colin Kaepernick or Derek Carr. Shanahan & Garoppolo are going to be a difficult combo to run off the field.
Grant’s doing his best Jack Hammer imitation…
Often imitated, never duplicated
How about often wrong, always sure.
Throwing shade at other journalists, eh? Not a good look Grant.
Grant, you are missing a few key points……………there is nothing gimmicky or due to scheming the way Graps throws the ball, right there with Marino………..he reads defenses very well, certainly better than avg…………..from college to the Pats to the 9ers, he holds the ball for a very short time, and he has the ability to make something out of nothing. Shannys schemes simply compliment Graps abilities. Throughout his career, how much room have his receivers ever needed to have him get the ball there??? He has that ability………….
They can “scheme” against Graps all they want-he has some unique abilities that you cant scheme against.
I hope the defenses are stellar so when Jimmy G carves them up there will be no doubt how good he is. I think the Vikings are going to be the first of many to be shaking their heads after losing their season opener to the not so surprising Niners. Heck ya the Niners are on everybody’s radar, kind of nice for a change.
Agreed.
Jimmy G deserves the skepticism. He hasn’t proven anything, he hasn’t played enough to show a substantial body of work.
BUT, what he has demonstrated is the intangibles every team wishes their QB had. The only intangible worth crowning him with, is he makes players around him better. Forget the quick release, intelligence, work ethic, he’s a Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Joe Montana DNA makeup where he makes #3 WR’s look like #1’s. He made Celek into Celek time. He got Goodwin a nice extension.
Point is players play better and perform better when Jimmy is the QB.
Ramsey can talk all he wants. He knows Jimmy G shredded that defense. Play calling or scheme, Jimmy G made all the throws in a tight game, a almost playoff type game where the Jags played well.
Sure he has a lot to prove. But let’s be real. He’s a QB a lot of teams wish they had to build around.
I don’t know how someone can write an article on this subeject, as Grant did, and fail to touch on so many factors.
And the baseball analogy is lame, IMO. I get the idea of having a “book” on a player. It is a big deal in baseball, and we see it all the time. A pitcher/batter matchup, when the pitcher has never faced a batter, giving the batter an advantage. Or a young player comes in and has holes in his swing, but it takes time for the league to figure it out and exploit it. For instance, when Yasiel Puig broke into MLB a few years back, a Dodger fan friend of mine thought he was destined to be the next great Dodger and MLB hitter. I thought differently. Not only was the kid immature, he also had huge holes in his swing. I told my friend to relax, just wait until the league figures out where those holes are, because they will exploit those holes relentlessly. Nowadays, thanks to huge holes in his swig, Puig is only dangerous when a pitcher makes a mistake, otherwise, he’s an easy out. Sure, the newest fad of dramatically shifting defenders in the field is big in baseball, and based off of that very book.
But it is still a holy simplistic matchup as compared to 11 defenders vs a QB, with offensive and defensive coordinators matching wits from one play to the next.
Not only would a defensive coordinator need to figure out the best strategy to defend a QB, they also have to deal with a world-class offensive coordinator (Kyle) who is going to counter those strategies, and find other ways to take what the defense gives them. And that’s what makes football so great. And if Jimmy is simply a QB who’s strentgh is to play within a scheme, because he has that rare ability to process information at the blink of an eye (which seems to be who Jimmy is), with a lightning quick release, and enough pinpoint accuracy within 20-25 yards to consistently complete passes to those recievers who are schemed open, taking what the defense gives him …. well then GREAT! That’s what I want in a QB. That’s more or less who Joe Montana was, playing within the great Bill Walsh’s system. And just because the league eventually found a few of Joe’s less-than-perfect tendencies, and developed a book on him, they couldn’t stop Joe Cool from carving up their defenses on a week to week basis, coulkd they?
Not saying Jimmy is the next Joe Montana. Joe also had ice in his veins. The jury is still out on Jimmy. I am saying that, like Joe, if Jimmy is really, really good at playing within a system, and that system is Kyle’s WCO 2.0 system, all I have to say is … good luck to those opposing defenses whom Grant seems to think may get the upper hand on Jimmy in 2018. I don’t see it happening.
Your verbosity is quite impressive. This article really seems to be bothersome to you. Maybe try Xanax.
I’m irritated Jack. Grant seems to be slipping into a pattern of – “what’s the next potentially possitive development on the 49ers front in which I can poke holes, and spin in a negative light”, and in doing so, he’s usually only presenting a fraction of an argument.
It’s been one thing to shed light on all of the 49ers organizational flaws that we’ve seen over the last handful of years, when there are far fewer positive’s for 49ers fans to hang our hats on. However, I can say with confidence that the 49ers seem to be moving in a much more positive direction with ShanaLynch’s second offseason heading into it’s second training camp just 4 weeks off. There are so many positive things to think about for a change, why spend 85% of the time looking for ways to play the contrarian, especially if you are going to ignore all counterpoints to the argument?
This particular subject is ripe for discussion because of the unique circumstances in which Jimmy broke onto the scene last season, and led a 1-9 team to 5 straight wins to finish the season. Is it not a fact that Jimmy found success last season despite circumstances that probably should have stunted his success, at least initially?
FYI, after the 49ers aquired Jimmy last season, Grant went out of his way to point out all of the reasons why things were likely to play out very much the same with Jimmy behind center, as opposed to Hoyer and Beathard. Okay fine. Grant wasn’t the only football writer who felt like Jimmy would likely have limited success behind the 49ers struggling OL, and depending on a number of rookies on offense. Not to mention his limited exposure to Kyle’s ultra-complex offense? An offense BTW built on a number of different concepts than McDaniels’ system.
Shouldn’t Grant have at least touched on these factors working against Jimmy last season:
– Jimmy never had a training camp in which to digest Kyle’s playbook last season
– Jimmy never had an opportunity to build chemistry with his receivers last season
– Jimmy never had an opportunity to build rapport with his offensive line last season
– Jimmy first start of the season was on the road in a hostile environment
How about these factors that should play to Jimmy’s strenths this season:
– Jimmy has the luxury of an entire offseason to learn Kyle’s system
– Jimmy should be working with an expended playbook
– Jimmy should be working with a better run-blocking OL
– Jimmy has a dynamic duel threat RB at his disposal
– Jimmy has been developing chemistry with his receivers all offseason
– Jimmy should have a sense of comfort having adjusted to moving across country
Look, I’m all for playing the Devil’s advocate while making an analysis, but not at the expense of omitting two-thirds of the relevant information for making such an argument or analysis. In fact, presenting one side of a two-sided coin is borderline pointless, and Grant has, and can, do better, because he knows this stuff. He’s just choosing to ignore it!
“FYI, Grant went out of his way after the 49ers squired Jimmy last season, to point out all of the reasons why things were likely to play out very much the same with Jimmy behind center, as opposed to Hoyer and Beathard.”
Yup. A lot of people on here said the same things. Some even said he was the next Cassell or Flynn.
Kudos to seb though. Seb rightly stated that JG would make teams pay for blitzing him because of his accuracy and quick release. I’m pretty sure seb was the first to mention that.
“seb rightly stated that JG would make teams pay for blitzing him because of his accuracy and quick release.”
He’s said that same thing about every QB for the last however many years. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.
Not true. Seb used to say Hoyer would pull a Gabbert and bench himself. He was right about that too.
80, TYVM.
Razor,
You were there. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being a home game and 10 being NFC Championship game in Seattle, how hostile was Soldier Field on that crisp early December afternoon?
Tame. I’d say it was a 2.
Moron.
Grant already told you his opinion was that Garoppolo would face a tougher task this season.
The stuff you’re bringing up is alright for a football nerd blog post, but this was written for the paper for mass consumption.
What he wrote was fine. He stated his opinion and gave reasons as to why he felt that way. Can’t say that I totally disagree with him.
I’m smirking at the debate about whether or not JG “deserves” to be in the Top 100.
Since of the invited respondents, his peers,……those who voted…………
…..voted him in.
Where’s the debate?
Votes cast. Votes tallied. Results reported.
Of course he deserves to be in.
Jalen would have voted otherwise. OK.
In the USA only about 75% of eligible voters are registered.
Generally about half of registered voters actually vote.
Votes cast. Votes tallied. Results reported.
?♂️
Yep you can’t take it away from him when it comes from the players he plays against. He’s developed a great rep in a short period of time but he has to continue to build on it or they’ll drop him 60 spots like they did Carr this year ;)
Grant sez : …
“….Jimmy Garoppolo faces much stiffer challenges
as career proceeds…..”
Although, Grant, you are technically correct, here …
this statement requires a ….
“.. Duh ! … Ya think ?..” .. type of response !
Why ?
Because this statement applies to every player who plays
on every one of the 32 teams in the NFL …
(Not to mention the fact that it also applies to those
who play college ball.. arena league..
and even on down to Pop Warner …)
It’s the nature of the game … It’s what the game is all about..
“Overcoming all the challenges” !
The “challenges” you speak of .. are what makes
the differences from one season to another !
Also to note … when you agreed with Ramsey … you stated
your ..“OPINION”…
and still maintain the moniker of a ..“Journalist”… right ?
Well .. The very first thing they teach you in a “Bonehead”
Journalism 101 class … is … (in part)….
“…….The moment you insert your “opinion” into an
article … it becomes .. (no longer) … “Journalism” … but. instead
“… just …. your … opinion” … !
And … your opinion … plus $5 …. just might .. get you
a small coffee at Starbucks …
Yogi Berra kinda summed it up: “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future” So Grant does a work around and basically says we’ve got to wait to see how Jimmy G’s future turns out. Brilliant!
Grant is not a journalist. He’s a blogger. Opinions perfectly acceptable.
Scheme vs Jimmy invites alot of binary observations. Similar to OTA practice reports where one player’s achievement in the “Good” section corresponds to his opposing player listed the “Bad” section.
The answer to this question may determine Garoppolo’s value in that game: How would Beathard or Hoyer have done vs Jax?
we have enough aggravation without visualizing a Hoyer led SF Offense vs. the JAX D in our imaginations…
no thank you…
We’ll never know. But we can look at Hoyer and CJ against a Seattle’s similar D.
Spoiler alert: Hoyer was terrible and CJ wasn’t anything special. And we lost both games.
Mulling the question highlights Garoppolo’s (perceived) value.
The straw men continue to march through this blog.
What quarterbacks didn’t face increasing challenges throughout their careers? Huh?
There’s a strawman epidemic today. Spent much of the afternoon arguing with people I was agreeing with.
Commenter: “Jimmy G is such and such…”
Me: “Good point. Your comment is right on the money. Here is why I agree with you…”
Commenter: “You’re wrong. Jimmy G is such and such…”
Me: “Where the hell did I put my Percocets?”
It’s partly my fault. My writing is even more unclear than usual on Percocets. Gol dang stitches killing me.
None that I can think of…
http://www.westcoastoffense.com/bill%20walsh%20article%202.htm
“As you review and analyze tapes of your upcoming opponents, you are looking for specific defenders to attack. Again, as an example, you are looking for the outside linebacker who fails to get into the flat or is slow getting there because he is fooled, or the inside linebacker who will attack a running play so forcefully that he loses sight of the ball, or a safety who will commit to the run and lose his perspective of the field, or a corner who will look into the backfield and take his eye off his receiver, etc.”
Yup. Look for an advantage and execute, that’s football.
“The answer to this question may determine Garoppolo’s value in that game: How would Beathard or Hoyer have done vs Jax?”
For one, they would have gotten the 49ers a top five pick if they had played those last five games. It would have been a two or three win season.
So you’re saying “Garoppolo > Scheme” vs Jax? Or not?
Either way Garoppolo has massive value. Today’s blog debate is a wonderful thing to have.
That’s a distinction much like the on a lot of you grew up with – Walsh or Montana.
Not worth the discussion.
Nothing to get worked up about. Premature accolades and awards can backfire such as Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize his first year into office just as he was expanding the war in Afghanistan and mounting his drone bombing campaign. Similarly, Jimmy G shouldn’t be listed as a top NFL player until he has actually completed his first full year as a starter.
I won’t categorize Obama’s award backfired or even viewed negatively…only of course if you are part of the bitter group
A better example of backfire is GWB “mission accomplished” banner
A classic if there ever was one.
Your analogy just doesn’t work. It’s ignorant gobblygook just as a political rebuttal. Saying someone is a great QB before they’ve even played a full season is similar to saying someone was the worlds greatest power for peace before they’ve even been in power for a full year. Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” stupidity is more like winning the NFC Championship game and hanging a “Mission Accomplished” banner at your pre- SuperBowl press conference.
More like after winning your season opener.
lol, you took the words right out of my mouth Rib.
“Bush’s “Mission Accomplished” stupidity is more like winning the NFC Championship game and hanging a “Mission Accomplished” banner at your pre- SuperBowl press conference.”
The war went on for years after that speech. They weren’t on the eve of the SB, they were in the first year of a long rebuild. They were purging the regime and the Iraqi roster, so to speak.
And never forget that the war was based on lies and post-2001 fear.
And remember how Iraq’s oil was going to pay for the war? Didn’t happen, more than a trillion dollars spent. And for what? Revenge for W’s daddy. Disruption of Iraqi oil production, making oil more scarce and thereby more expensive (or more profitable if you’re already an oil man like Bush). A chance to wear a codpiece and project manliness on a carrier with a BS banner.
Will Jimmy G. face stiffer challenges this season? I hope so , if he is participating in games that have playoff implications for the 49ers he will be facing stiffer challenges. imho
Tom Pelissero
✔
@TomPelissero
#Bucs QB Jameis Winston’s apology was part of the negotiated settlement on his 3-game suspension, sources say. He does not admit guilt to the conduct the NFL says violated the policy. But he acknowledges he was drinking that night and doesn’t remember everything. @TomPelissero
I think what Ramsey was trying to say is that his defense could only shut down the 49ers primary receivers, which left momentary windows when tight ends and backs were open. JimmyG was able to quickly check down and deliver the ball to third, fourth, and fifth options all day long. Which is how you put up 44 points and come away with a passer rating above 100 against the second best defense in the league. If that isn’t slicing and dicing, what would real slicing and dicing look like?
Howard:
Check out the Better Rivals podcast. Around the 35 minute mark they start talking about how effective passing out of run looks was and they also break down several plays in detail. Wide open receivers generally indicates good scheme or terrible defense (since it was JAX, the edge goes to game planning).
https://soundcloud.com/betterrivals/ep-239-jimmy-garoppolo-jalen-ramsey-passing-run-personnel
Garoppolo will continue to improve and gain more confidence in Shanahan’s system–pretty much the same for those other players on offense…particularly the returning veterans. Having Shanahan as ‘the schemer’–with a year’s experience with the 9ers–is a good thing. Anyone want Jimmy Raye or Geep Chryst calling the offense for Jimmy G?
I suspect 9er schemes will adapt just as good DCs will be better prepared for the 9er offense–who will have the upper hand? If Shanahan suddenly looses his M&Ms (mojo and moxie)–his play design and play calling abilities–then the 2018 season may become a dumpster fire.
Yeah Grant…Jimmy will face a stiffer challenge–and too he’ll be better prepared than last year, and Shanahan likely won’t tank as the offensive’s architect.
The best part about this thread is that the naysayers are heaping praise on Kyle Shanahan. Oh how times have changed.
Ha! Yup!
“Anyone want Jimmy Raye….?”
Yeah. That’ll by Seb’s next resurrection trade scenario, LOL!
‘ Trade our Long Snapper, a couple of Trainers, Marge In Accounting, and a 7th Rounder in 2020 and BRING BACK JIMMY RAYE!!!’
Actually, I am wondering what KS would say if JG advocated for the Niners to hire an innovative OC. (Obviously not Jimmy Raye, who could not think his way out of a paper bag.)
.
What if JG said that by having an OC, they might sync up the cadences, and having an OC might help them win.
Hey Seb how’s the wife and my kids?
Another old and discredited idea dredged up? Way to go.
Innovative offensive schemer acclaimed around the league, but you want to replace him? Did you notice the point of this article? Here’s a hint: Jalen said Jimmy didn’t carve us up, Kyle did.
JG: Hey Coach, I know some guys who could coach me better than you.
Or:
Employee: Hey boss, I’ve got some suggestions on who you should hire to supervise me.
You should apply for the job, Lucy. You could devise formations that could run OR pass on any given play. You could coach ‘em up on catching the ball and then immediately dropping into the fetal position. Just apply right here because I’m sure Lynch and Shanahan check in daily to read your comments.
Pretty much Brotha,
If Jimmy didn’t like the play calling I’m guessing it would have been much harder.
Asking Kyle to let someone else be the OC at this point would be like asking a brain surgeon to let his nurse perform the surgery right as slapping his gloves on.
Interesting. The last 29 teams that won the SB had an OC. Even BB has an OC, and he has won 5 SBs.
.
Do not know how having an OC would hurt the team. Hurt KS’s feelings?
.
Many HC have called the plays, but they still needed to delegate authority to an OC so the OC could help organize and prepare the offense. A competent OC might help them win.
.
KS should delegate authority, so he can concentrate on being the HC. A HC needs to focus on all 3 aspects of the game. Just promote Scangarello. That would be rewarding competence, especially after watching the last 5 games of last season.
.
No, the brain surgeon would ask for a cranial specialist, and let the nurse and anesthesiologist do their jobs. It would be a team effort, with everyone concentrating on their specialties. If KS wants to be the OC, maybe he should not be the HC.
Hey Sebbie why are you such a dum dum?
Nice throw back on Willie Mc Covey, but even when Big Mac wasn’t hitting at a high average he was still a major threat each time he came to the plate and pitchers and defense made critical adjustments.
Also, he was a fantastic 1st baseman.
Now, I’m more concerned about what Sherman said about a tell tale sign in Jimmy G’ game rather than giving a red cent on Ramsey’ remark – which btw, are true.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/falcons-seahawks-nfc-divisional-playoffs-score-result-analysis-kyle-shanahan-49ers/1inau06lxxg412wcmc1hfhfh7
“As he’s also done all season, Shanahan kept a disciplined run D off balance with his perfect interchanging of pace between Devonta Freeman and Tevin Coleman.”
This is how Shanny wants it.
“The understanding of fast, physical football, influenced by Quinn and his other mentors, including his father, Mike Shanahan, is what make Kyle Shanahan a very good bet as a first-time head coach at age 37.”
-Garoppolo did not dissect the Jaguars defense that day – Kyle Shanahan did.
Well why could Shanahan not win with Hoyer or CJ Beathard prior to the Giants game? You are saying a coach can single handedly win games? All year you wrote how his play calling needed to get better. So what is it Cohn head?
We can talk trash too.
https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Bolt/San-Francisco-49ers-linebacker-Reuben-Foster-doesnt-want-to-give-Jacksonville-Jaguars-hat-and-T-shirt-week-112656758/
“Oh, a hat and T-shirt week? Oooooooh, okay,” Foster said. “This is a hat and T-Shirt week, I guess we’re going to have to take it off then.”
Well, look at the bright side. If Grant’s worst fears come to pass, the Niners will still walk away with a top-5 pick in next year’s draft. Any decent edge rushers likely to be available thereabouts?
I don’t have specific names yet, but the Move the Sticks crew thinks 2019 will be a great draft for pass rushers.
Indeed it will be.
Who? Landry? Idiot.
Each vintage has it’s strengths and weaknesses. I read a piece yesterday casting major shade on the ‘19 QB class. It’s early
“….If Grant’s worst fears come to pass…”
Well … there’s the rub… huh ? … You see … Grant is as
good at calling out all his … (“perceived”) ..negative things…
as I am attempting to predict the Niners final win/loss totals ..
And as far as Ramsey’s “sour grapes” goes … Shanny’s “scheme”
didn’t throw those balls … Jimmy did …
and it was a combination of Kyle and Jimmy … who carved
up Ramsey’s top 5 defense ! … what’s difference does it make
who…. carved them up ?… Fact is
THEY GOT CARVED !
(see the final score)
If Cooper starts at RG, Niners will have 4 1st round draft choices and one 2nd Rounder (Richburg) on the OL. Same if Garnett starts at RG.
I’d like to see them draft a premium quality “brick” for the OL next year.
They need another tackle. Staley…….
He’s going to have it harder next year. Wow, what an epiphany. Way to go out on a limb Grant.
Reading that article reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where George gets the white mark on his lip and he tells his therapist “I think your rooting for a tumor”! Jeesh!
I’m not too worried about teams having a book on Garoppolo. This system is unstoppable if the QB is accurate and has time. There could be some growing pains – JG has only started 7 games after all – but there isn’t a play caller in the game who can adapt quicker to what he’s seeing than Shanahan, and Garoppolo’s accuracy and release fit the system perfectly. I think the offense is going to be top ten. My concern is the defense and more precisely the pass rush.
I agree with you entirely.
That’s how I see it as well.
rocket
I am in total agreement with you concerning Shannahan being the quickest to spot and correct whatever’s wrong…That is why we should be tough to handle and switch to System B…or C….
Grant you are so NEGATIVE! every chance you get you put the Niners down.
if “Damsey” wouldn’t say anything about JG you probably would have find something negative to say about why JG was voted #90. Do you ever have something positive to say about where the Niners are heading? GO NINERS!!!!
Interesting. Grant was not wildly optimistic, so you call him negative. He was just being realistic, and pointed out the possible obstacles to winning the SB.
.
Just by the small sample size of QBing only 7 games, maybe Ramsey is right that JG does not need to be one of the top 100 out of 1600 players. Still think JG is way better than many QBs who made the list, but he needs a full season to properly evaluate him.
This is why I hope the Niners do not have a losing season. Other teams will have tape on JG and they can scheme against him. An 8-8 season will be a 2 game improvement, so I think that is a modest and realistic goal. The planets need to align, and the Niners need to avoid major injuries in order to get 9 or 10 wins and a shot at a wild card spot.
.
Ramsey pontificates that JG schemed better against the Jags. Guess what? JG gave other teams the blueprint on how to attack their defense. It is logical to assume that the Niners avoided their All Pro CB, and attacked their weaknesses. Hence, the short passes to the RBs and TEs, with safeties and LBs covering them.
.
Ramsey was right. JG executed his scheme, and the Jags were executed. Niners put 38 points on that vaunted defense. Ramsey should pontificate more on improving their QB situation, instead of whining about getting sliced and diced by JG. Bortles sure is not the answer, and the AFCC Game proved it.
The 49ers not only won their last 5, but it was also 6 of their last 7. They also had a legitimate shot to win 7 games earlier in the season. While 8-8 is a better record than what they achieved in 2017 it would be a major disappointment.
12 reasons why I think the Niners should be content to be only 8-8.
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1. 16-0 is just a pipe dream.
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2. Rams, with their trades, FA signings and draft, are poised to win the division. They have playoff, and even SB aspirations. They have a young, innovative HC, a SB winning DC, Goff, Gurley and Donald. Except in the playoffs, they did not under perform. The Niner’s best chance to make the playoffs is by winning a wild card spot.
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3. Niners are 45 mil under the salary cap, so they have 45 mil less talent overall, than teams who have spent up to the cap. They did not sign an elite FA, and had to overpay for McKinnon.
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4. Niners had a consensus need to draft a pass rusher. They basically ignored the available Pass rushers . The Niners should have been patient, and not spent the 74th pick to move up. Pettis would have been available at 59. Niners could have used that 74th pick to select Sam Hubbard or Rasheem Green.
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5. Niners got smaller in the RB department. Jerick McKinnon is 20 pounds lighter than Hyde. Niners need to be able to pound the rock between the tackles.
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6. Niners still lack a number one WR, who is big, tall and fast and can attack the red zone.
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7. Niners should be conservative, and not count on Sherman until mid season, so the DB squad is in flux. Ward may be the answer, but he may not stay healthy.
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8. Niners may still commit those unforced errors, and injuries will be a big factor.
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9. Seahawks followed my draft scheme by trading back multiple times to garner more picks. They ended up with 9. Schneider and Carroll are formidable foes, with SB success.
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10. Arizona got Rosen, who may be the best NFL ready QB in the draft. They have David Johnson returning. The cards defense was solid, last season. It was the lack of David Johnson and Gabbert at QB that doomed them. The Niners may go 2-4 in the division. They would have to win 6 of 10 of the other contests to get to 8-8.
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11. The Niners start with the Vikings, a playoff team. They play Detroit, with Patricia bolstering the defense. They play KC, another playoff team. Chargers were victims of several close losses or they could have been in the playoffs. Then they play the Cards and Packers, 2 tough opponents. Then they play the Rams and the cards again. Niners may be fortunate to go 2-6 in the first half of the season.
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12. Other teams now have tape on JG, so they will be able to scheme better against him. Niners did get better, but so did their opponents. Hope JG does not have a sophomore slump.
12 reasons why I think the Niners will make the playoffs.
1 Jimmy. He’s clutch. Goes through his progressions and gets the ball out quickly with consistent accuracy.
2 Shanny. Teams will be able to scheme against JG, but KS is the Scheme Weaver. The team has already bought into KS and his system.
3 DBs. Witherspoon and Colbert will be pretty good, if not elite. Sherm is on track for Training Camp.
4 Richburg. The centerpiece of the OL.
5 ILBs. Warner and Foster can cover. Foster is excellent against the run. Improved technique will help his game. He’s fully healthy and will have participated in most of the offseason program.
6 Time of possession. The D will be fresh.
7 McKinnon. 1000+ YDs from scrimmage.
8 Buckner. Buck is a beast.
9 Goodwin. Has proved he is more than just a deep threat.
10 Kittle. George is healthy.
11 Juice. Versatility, hands, blocking.
12 Staley. No explanation needed.
Bakers dozen. 13 Pettis. Field position. Will be the first WR off the bench. Could beat out Taylor in the slot.
14. Continuity in the coaching. Instead of starting over with new coaches, system and playbook, the Niner coaches have a year under their belt. Now they do not need to make snap decisions and assessments for the entire team. Additionally, the players are more familiar with the schemes, and will better understand what the coaches are trying to accomplish.
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Sure, the O line has undergone lots of turnover, but the changes are improvements.
Good one.
15. Garcon. #15 had to be Garcon right? Solid target for JG. Was on pace for 1,000 yards last year.
#80, I’m thinking McKinnon could potentially go for closer to 1,500+ all purpose yards. I think he’s going to be that valuable to this offense.
And what a great security blanket he’ll be for Jimmy, something Grant is clearly overlooking!
He certainly could get 1,500+. I originally was gonna say 1,200+. But there’s so many viable weapons in our passing game. I have no clue how many targets each WR, TE, and RB will get. The good news is that opposing DC’s won’t have a clue either.
1) Never said they’d go 16-0
2) Nothing new
3) This shows your lack of understanding how the cap is calculated.
4) Those rookies likely wouldn’t have been upgrades this season. We’ll see.
5) McKinnon is almost the same size as Terrell Davis
6) The whole #1 WR bit is overblown
7) Sherman will start week 1
8) They might
9) Seattle will be tough as long as they have #3 at QB. That defense isn’t as good as it once was though.
10) Arizona is a total unknown due to coaching change.
11) Yes, schedule is rough in the early season. KC was a playoff team last year but change at QB and D that’s fallen off makes them more beatable. Arrowhead is a challenge.
12) Agree and disagree. This will probably come into play more in 2019.
1. Why be so negative? C’mon, SB or bust! ;p
2. Glad you at least agree.
3. Some teams will do everything in their power to win, so they will spend every nickle they can to improve the team. Some teams do not spend so they can make money. Elementary.
4. Again, the Niners did not need to be desperate, and move up to get Pettis. He was the 22nd ranked WR in the CBS prospects. If they had been patient, and saved that 74th pick, they could have chosen Sam Hubbard or Rasheem Green. I will second guess their draft strategy if either of those 2 players do well. We will see.
5. Please, you are trying too hard. Terrell Davis is a 2 time SB winner and a 3 time all pro. McKinnon is not very accomplished. TD is 2 inches and 5 pounds bigger. TD and JM have totally different running styles.
6. Maybe you are right, and it can be like Marino with Clayton and Duper.
7. Sherman had injuries to BOTH Achilles. Percentages are against him. Sometimes it takes 2 years to fully recover from an Achilles.
8. Hope the coaches can prepare them well enough, and the trainers can keep the players healthy.
9. Seahawks will get Thomas back, and he is the glue that holds the defense together. Wonder if their rookie RB is good, and if the OL can provide protection. Seattle fans were gobsmacked when they drafted a punter before they drafted an O lineman.
10. I agree, the QB situation is a big question mark, but getting back David Johnson is huge, and they did have a top 6 defense. Coaching just needs to be competent, because the team does have talent.
11. I DID give them 2 wins in the first half. I am hoping the Niners win either Detroit or KC, and split their games with the Cards.
12. We will see how it all unfolds. I predicted a 6 win season last year because I thought it would triple the win total from the season before. This season, I am hoping for improvement, but dream of future rings. I have realistic expectations, but would be deliriously happy if they made the playoffs.
NFL Could See an Epic Class of Pass-Rushers in 2019 Draft……https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2775136-nfl-could-see-an-epic-class-of-pass-rushers-in-2019-draft
* Nick Bosa, Defensive End, Ohio State: 6’4″, 263 pounds
* Ed Oliver, Defensive Tackle, Houston: 6’3″, 290 pounds. The Aaron Donald comparisons come from talking to
scouts.
* Rashan Gary, Defensive Tackle, Michigan: 6’5″, 281-pound.
* Others to Watch: Clemson D Linemen (Dexter Lawrence, Clelin Ferrell, Austin Bryant and Christian Wilkins.
Ferrell is the best of the bunch on tape, but all four have potential.
* Alabama: Raekwon Davis, D Lineman, Anfernee Jennings, EDGE
* Ohio State: Dre’Mont Jones has a top-20 grade. Would have had a Round 1 grade if he enters the 2018 draft draft.
* CBSSports.com: 2019 NFL Mock Draft: Nick Bosa, Clelin Ferrell selected with first two picks. The super-hyped defensive line class has six members go in the top 15 of the 2019 draft. ….https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-mock-draft-nick-bosa-clelin-ferrell-selected-with-first-two-picks/
GEEP – thanks for the breakdown.
Hoping that even if the 49ers have 9+ wins they can still find a way to secure a top edge player.
That’s the question Brodie. Waiting for better classes can often keep you waiting. The pass rushing Dt’s have little value to SF and as edge rushers are highly valued. There is a decent chance the ones that are scheme fits and worthy of a first round sesection are gone at our selection.
Agree entirely Rocket. Well said. Like I said Willie, Grant in essence is “rooting for a tumor”. Don’t believe it when he states that he has no “stake” in the team, or doesn’t care one way or the other. I don’t buy that horse manure for a second. Does anybody?
Why the constant negativity? Maybe it’s having to be around these guys everyday, watching them drive out of the parking lot in their Porche’s, Mercedes and Cadillacs headed to a fine restaurant or men’s club, or heading home to their luxurious homes, while he sits in his Kia, contemplating whether to stop at Taco Bell on the way home or maybe Kentucky Fried Chicken before heading home to the rather mundane apartment. I can actually see that resentment filtering it’s way into the thought process.
This explains, I think, why when he discusses the Niners, the glass isn’t just half empty, it’s on the ground, smashed in a thousand pieces.
I think that all those SB MVP’s and other accolades that Joe got should be rescinded and given to Bill Walsh. After all, it was Bill who out schemed those opponents. Joe just threw the ball, accurately, to say the least , but so what. It was all Bill really. ;-)
Golly I love my wife of 40 years!
She just came downstairs to tell me that there’s a big spider in the shower.
To tease her I asked if I should use the .40 Cal Glock or the 12 Guage.
She said, “I don’t care, just evict that f%@#&er in the morning!”
She’s never authorized a Free Fire Zone before, hahaha
409 will work fine
:)
Yea, my wife freaked when she saw a spider the size of a 50 cent piece. I didn’t grab the .50 cal desert eagle, or the 12 gauge shot gun. Instead, I grabbed the Eureka hand held and sucked it up….
Sig Sauer 9 mm .
I’d rely on the 40 although a Glock 32 would be even better…
In the morning? You’ve got yourself one lenient landlady there, BT. ?
Two things:
1/ She doesn’t encourage my Mongo tendencies or firearm play halfway through a fine Sonoma Valley Zinfandel,
2/ 40years
?♂️
I wish to challenge Grant’s assertion that KS was more responsible for the Niner victory over the Jags than JG.
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If that was the case, CJB, or even Hoyer could have beaten them. It was JG’s execution of the system that led to the Niners scoring more points than any other game that season. JG sliced and diced them. Ramsey had only 4 solo tackles, and I think he had only one pass defended.
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JG had many obstacles to overcome. He needed to assimilate a brand new playbook. He was throwing to new receivers. He had to overcome the coaching, which told him not to throw into triple coverage. JG did that, was successful, and KS even admitted that JG exceeded expectations. JG attacked their weaknesses. His quick release frustrated many pass rushers. JG threw past the sticks so he converted third downs and kept drives alive. JG had many long drives, which kept the Niner defense on the side line, so they were rested. JG did not have perfect form. He threw off his back foot side arm. Fortunately, it was completed for a TD.
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KS was responsible for the game plan, and he was smart enough to take a page out of the Patriot playbook, since JG was familiar and comfortable with running those plays. Still, while KS put him in a position to succeed, JG was the one pulling the trigger. JG executed the scheme almost flawlessly, and put 38 points on a championship contender, with a vaunted playoff defense.
The Mighty Quinn is right! Graps executed those plays~just as Montana and not Deberg executed THOSE plays..
Bring back Kap. Bring back Gore. Bring back Kelly. Bring back Tomsula.
Heeheehee.
Bring back Dom DiMaggio!
You’re the Lucy Ricardo of the blog! ?
12 reasons why I think Jimmy Garoppolo can succeed, even with stiffer challenges.
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1. JG is accurate. He not only threw into tight windows, he threaded the needle. That pass to Louis Murphy into triple coverage looked impossible to catch. I remember LM holding the ball up to signify that he did actually catch that ball.
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2. JG is a quick study. He picked up KS’s system, and learned a whole new terminology in 3 weeks. He never walked up to the line, looked confused, and called a time out.
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3. JG has a quick release. He avoided many sacks, and made his O line look good. This year’s O line is maybe even better than last year’s, so JG may have more time to throw, and less pressure.
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4. JG is cool under pressure. Kinda reminds me of Joe. Even with a pass rusher in his face, he made plays.
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5. JG benefited by studying behind Brady. He knows where everyone is on the field because he has had time to analyze and dissect plays for years. It was similar to Aaron Rodgers studying behind Favre.
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6. JG can not only out think the defense, he can think faster than the defense. He is one step ahead of the competition. Hopefully, he can treat the game like a chess match, and think 3 moves ahead.
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7. JG is a born leader. Players raved about his leadership, and they welcomed him with open arms. That 5 game win streak happened because the players believed in him, and they played their guts out for him.
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8. JG can be deceptive. He can look off the safeties. He can execute the play action. He needs to work on his pump fakes, but every QB needs to do that, too.
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9. JG helps the defense. By converting third downs and sustaining drives, he allows the defense to rest. By scoring points, he puts pressure on the opponent’s offense, so they have to score to keep up.
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10. JG is in a good system. KS knows how to use JG. KS will put JG into positions to succeed. Maybe the best thing KS can do is let JG be the field general, and call the plays in the no huddle offense. Maybe that would allow JG to catch the defense with 12 men on the field, for a free play that morphs into a long strike down field. Maybe JG can draw the defense off side for a free play. Hopefully, KS can make JG more crisp, efficient and effective by reducing the unforced errors.
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11. JG has had the whole off season to sync up with his receivers. Pierre Garcon is coming back from injury. They spent a second round pick on Pettis, a WR. Richie James may be a sleeper. There will be stiff competition for the last WR spot on the roster. McKinnon is a better fit than Hyde, because he can run the OZ and is a better receiver.
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12. Now that JG has total command of the playbook, he can now concentrate on the details. He can pick up the nuances of a play, and target a specific player. JG can study to understand the how’s and why’s a play is successful, or a failure. JG can anticipate certain scenarios, and process plays in real time action. He can think quick on his feet to make the proper adjustments.
Jalen also stated that other QB’s shouldn’t have been in the top 100. Irvin said the same.
The show didn’t break down all of the qb’s these two felt shouldn’t have been there.
I know it’s a 49er room, but apparently JG was simply his first option to debate the top 100’s list of players. Heck Irvin didn’t even mention the QB’s he didn’t feel was worthy.
So it comes down to his vote wasn’t in favor of JG but his peers votes were.
And to be honest the players votes have much more credibility than sports writers or fans.
Besides coaches I couldn’t think of better opinions on a player and a list of the best.
Ramsey needs to look at his own game film. There are times when he is sure he has the jump, and gets to the receiver late. That’s called getting beat not scheme
“Garoppolo did not dissect the Jaguars defense that day – Kyle Shanahan did. Shanahan pinpointed its weaknesses. Shanahan created the patterns that featured the running backs and tight ends the Jaguars struggled to cover. Shanahan outcoached them.”
Then why is this an article about the struggles Garoppolo is going to face? You make it sound like Garoppolo is just along for the ride. Shouldn’t this be about the challenges Shanahan is going to face continuing to beat teams with scheme?
especially without an OC and #1 WR????
oh my…
Alarming…
Lightweight.
Without meaning….
The Grant memes. And it’s not even preseason yet.
Greek Chorus
: -)
Thanks CFC, that’s what I am wondering. Only Grant would find a way to poo poo on a QB for doing his job nearly flawlessly. After all, isn’t it the job of every NFL QB to execute the gameplan?
Seems to me that the real question is: How much better can Jimmy be moving forward, considering how well he executed the game plan last season despite all of the factors he had working against him?
I mean, let’s get real Grant. The minute (literally) Jimmy took over as the 49ers QB, Kyle’s offense, heck, the entire team took on an entirely different identity, and looked like a completely different team. I mean, night & day! Suddenly, the 49ers weren’t just going toe to toe with playoff caliber teams, they were winning! And they were winning in impressive fashion! The transformation was dramatic, and awe inspiring! The entire league stood up and took notice. Wouldn’t logic suggest that, the more comfortable Jimmy gets within Kyle’s system, the better chance he has to perfectly execute Kyle’s game plan on a weekly basis?
I know NFL defenses are ever evolving, and football is a game of adjustments, but there are a lot of smart football minds who are wondering ….
…. Just how great can this guy be?
I think that’s the real question!
A really good read on how PFF rates QBs.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-pff-qb-evaluation-what-we-look-for-on-tape
from “Redskins Wire” site today…in a tweeted quote attributed to Jay Gruden re: comp between Alex and Kirk:
“He’ll (Alex) get the most out of the receivers and Oline because they’re going to want to play for him and they’re going to feel confident that he’s going to make something happen in a positive way or at least give it everything he’s got and take responsibility if something doesn’t work out”
uh oh…bad juju between Gruden and Cousins…
Nigel Bradham got a one game suspension for assault and battery.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000939057/article/eagles-lb-nigel-bradham-suspended-for-one-game
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/21/15848280/emory-fan-study-49ers-rankings-seahawks
Seattle ranked 18th? What happened to the 12th man? Oh that’s right, this is the city that lost it’s NBA team.
#80…
this is also the same fan base and team that was outsold by their soccer team prior to 2012.
The 12th man is “Fake news”
Did anybody see the video yesterday of Sherman doing cone drills? His cutting looked pretty good to me.
1 reason why Jimmy Garoppolo can succeed, even with stiffer challenges.
1. He’s better than most of the QB’s in the league.
Enough said without rambling on about the obvious.
The guy has only started the equivalent of half a season. He’s basically a rookie. Does Grant, and others, think he’s at the apex of his skills right now? With every game played he’s going to get better.
I think I disagree with just about everything in this article.
1. The top 100 NFL Players and JG not deserving: The top 100 is based on 2017 results so the ASmith, Cousins and Marriotta career work is irrelevant. If we extrapolate (which the players probably did) JG stats for a full season 4500 yards / 25 TD is not too shabby. Those stats are better the above mentioned qbs in yards and inline on TD. There is also the intangible consideration that JG was 5-0 and coordinated 3 game winning drives.
2. Willie Mcovey: Aaron Judge is having a fine sophomore season. There goes that one. Google Aaron Judge plays catch with fan – pretty cool.
3. Shanahan gets credit not JG: What? JG had to execute the game plan. He threw for 242 /2 TD against a top 5 Jags D.
4. Ramsey – ” It wasn’t like he was just dicing us up ” , Grant – ” Garoppolo did not dissect the Jaguars ” I think Grant and Ramsey need to watch the film below. Garoppolo frustrated their LBs with pinpoint precision and quick release. Again 242/2 is impressive
How Jimmy Garoppolo Carved Up the Jaguars Defense on 3rd Down | Film Review | NFL Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd31AuKunOw
5. JG in trouble because D Coordinators will game plan: Guess what – so will Shanahan. It is a chess match. Also, JG will benefit from an entire off season together with receivers/TE. JG will benefit from a younger healthy O line. JG will benefit from the speedy Mckinnon and Pettis may contribute. Garcon will be back . etc.
A superior rant Rollo!
Bravo because you gave such cogent reasoning.
I’m not trying to just cap on Grant, your piece is well thought out.
Did you plagerize from Seb?
?
Rollo … Thanks for posting the proof that Jimmy
did, indeed… carve up the Jags D … and also the reason
for Ramsey ‘s …”sour grapes” ….
(it starts at 2:50 . in that youtube– talk about embarrassment !)
Thanks Guys. I think Grant never got over the Niners not pursuing Cousins with more vigor.
either that … or maybe he really wanted Romo
when the Cowgirls got rid of him
Lil cohn still in love with “A+” Hoyer
May God save us from this Trump disaster…..this dotard has to be the worst president on record…..
Another rethug supreme court justice……God help us
Dude spread those cheeks wider so we can get the real meat up there.
Stuttering John being able to get trough to Trump on Air Force One and then have pull off a conversation about immigration and the Supreme Court is pretty damn funny.
It seems like oneniner and onewhiner are the same person and should get a psychiatric evaluation. Having conversations with yourself is not normal.
Nice piece Rollo. Precise and to the point without a boat load of “duh”!
Remember how most on this blog said Edmunds would be a SAM? Remember how I and a few others said he would be drafted to play MIKE primarily?
https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/31/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-tredavious-white-tremaine-edmunds/
“Edmunds, who the team selected with the 16th overall pick in the 2018 draft, is the team’s presumptive starter at middle linebacker.”
The SAM guys were so sure. So sure, yet so wrong. The blog’s gatekeepers of opinion will continue to be cocksure about anything and everything, but they will be wrong frequently. Take their opinions which are often, but not always right and decide for yourselves.
These guys are far from perfect, just like the rest of us.
Come on man, the guy has yet to play a down in the NFL. I know it’s a lul period and there’s not a lot to talk about, but let’s give it a little time before claiming victory based on one writer’s comment. I don’t have a dog in the fight but just saying…
It’s not just that writer. From the same link.
“Tremaine has done a really good job up to this point,” Frazier said. “It’s a challenge coming in as a rookie, for sure, and then being a middle linebacker, to lead, you’re in a leadership role if you’re the middle linebacker.”
To be fair 80, when was the last time a coach you heard a coach not sing praises about a first round pick?
Let’s not jump to conclusions as to where he is best just yet.
I’m not doing that, I think he could play both. If he can handle MIKE, he’ll stay there aside from occasionally rushing the QB if that part of his game develops. Why? Because MIKE is more important. If he ends up as just a SAM, (no MIKE or pass rushing) he’ll be a bust IMO.
This article does a good job of explaining why the Bills drafted TE and how they will use him. They had a hole at MIKE and a returning starter at SAM.
https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/15/buffalo-bills-2018-nfl-season-tremaine-edmunds-matt-milano/
Partly though fans were envisioning where he would play on this team.
On this team, I actually think he would have been better as a will initially, as his instincts are still developing and his athleticism would allow him to chase down plays. Eventually, he would have either moved to MLB or Edge depending on which skill set developed most for him.
Foster ended up playing WILL last year. Foster’s best position is WILL.
I personally think Warner will play good enough to keep his job when Foster returns. Foster goes back to WILL, where he doesn’t have to deal with as many blockers and doesn’t have to be the QB of the D.
Edmunds would have had the same role as Warner, be ready to play both MIKE and WILL (interchangable), but primarily MIKE. I pretty sure Edmunds could be successful at MIKE or WILL right away, I’m less sure he’d be successful at SAM right away.
Edmunds being able to rush the passer isn’t a given and shouldn’t be expected right away, it could take years to develop. That’s another reason why he wouldn’t be a SAM.
Wonderlic
Warner 32
Edmunds 22
Wonderlic
Warner 32
Edmunds 22
Foster 9
I’m pretty sure that’s a contributing factor as to why they want him at Will.
;>)
Yup. Foster reminds me of Gore. They both certainly understand the game, but not the best communicators.
I’d love to get, Gore on the staff in some capacity after he retires. Whether it’s as a coach or a scout.
80,
“Foster ended up playing WILL last year. Foster’s best position is WILL.”
That’s highly possible (even if still unknown),But Foster has far better instincts and play diagnosis than Edmunds at this time. That’s why I preferred seeing him in the middle, because he could help the linebacker on either side while Edmunds developed.
“I personally think Warner will play good enough to keep his job when Foster returns. Foster goes back to WILL, where he doesn’t have to deal with as many blockers and doesn’t have to be the QB of the D.”
I agree and argued the same thing earlier but he is a very different player than Edmunds and his issues were taking on blockers not instincts… this could still be an issue and will bear watching when camp starts but I believe it was over stated. And I dont really remember him being a player that was talked about much prior to the draft.
“Edmunds being able to rush the passer isn’t a given and shouldn’t be expected right away, it could take years to develop. That’s another reason why he wouldn’t be a SAM.”
I never said it was, but instincts don’t develop right away either. I suggested after playing the Will, he could move to be a Leo/edge rusher or an MLB whichever role he showed a greater proclivity towards.
Good points, although Edmunds being slow to diagnose is partly mitigated by his tackle radius and speed. I also think that VT’s aggressive scheme led people to believe that his diagnosing ability was worse than it actually was.
I also think that Foster is better than Edmunds in coverage. Neither are great at shedding blocks, but I give Edmunds the edge there. And with Edmunds’ size, I think he has a much higher ceiling as block shedder.
It was reported that Warner had good hands, indicating that he’ll be able to shed blocks. But it was non-contact, so it will be something to monitor in camp as you said.
“I never said it was”
I know. That was part of the main topic about whether or not Edmunds would be a SAM. My bad for putting that part there.
I think the plan was for Foster to be MIKE after Bow was gone. He played MIKE with Reid at WILL. I think this was when they decided that Foster would be better suited at WILL. Then they started Coyle and moved Foster.
Man, you sure do get your panties in a twist when people have the audacity to disagree with you.
As for Edmunds, I wish him the best and he certainly has great physical talent, but perhaps it would be best to wait until he has actually played a down of football before proclaiming how brilliant you are for liking him as a Mike. And even then, you know, don’t feel like you have to… :-P
It’s not about people disagreeing with me. I expect it on a football forum. My post was about echo chambers.
Edmunds’ value was always as a MIKE. With added value as a potential rusher, while still playing MIKE primarily. When you have a guy that can play MIKE or SAM, you don’t put him at the less important position.
I felt the SAM argument was a weak one and I was surprised that it was generally accepted after a few people made the case. But I do understand why it happened. As I said in my earlier post, you and others are right more often than not. I then suggested that people consider those opinions and decide for themselves because nobody is perfect.
About my brilliance. Hardly, I’m just a fan. I have no illusions that I could be a GM or coach.
I do bring it up when I’m right sometimes, but not always. I usually do it when there was a lot of pushback to a take of mine, like Edmunds.
I’m also frequently give other people credit when they get things right. Mid went against the grain and said Meeks would go undrafted while the rest of the blog including myself, thought he would be a mid round pick. I gave him props for that, he ignored the echo chamber and came to his own conclusion.
I also call myself out when I’m wrong. Being right or wrong isn’t that important to me, as we all make mistakes, the professionals get it wrong too. I just try to present a good case to support my opinions.
80,
I was in the Edmunds camp as well leading to the draft. My thought was that he was capable of playing many positions because of his incredible versatility.
But in reality, I feel that it could be a blessing and a curse if TE settles in at MLB.
I understand the team’s thinking that TE is capable of calling defensive plays and filling the gap in the middle, but I believe that his versatility is hampered with all the traffic in the middle.
This move reminds me of a Lambo being hemmed in by a commuter traffic jam.
I had already chosen to follow Edmunds’ progress throughout the season and now it will be more interesting.
But let’s face it, we won’t have a read on Edmunds until the end of the season.
AES,
Sure it’s too soon to crown him (I never did), but that wasn’t my point. No team was going to use a high to mid 1st round pick on a SAM. I think that’s why some tried to pigeonhole him there. An example being, you don’t take a SAM that high, so forget about Edmunds and take whichever guy I like.
As I’m sure you remember, Edmunds’ game was frequently dissected. Some of it was fair, some of it was a bit overblown, and some of it looked like biased hit pieces or hit posts.
Having access to YouTube and scouting reports doesn’t make any of us a scout. The Bills traded up for TE after they let their MIKE walk. They must have felt confident that TE can handle the position.
I’ll be following TE as well. He was a fascinating prospect.
80,
+100
https://www.askideas.com/media/41/Funny-Cookie-Meme-Give-That-Man-A-Cookie-Picture.jpg
Is that the good Vlad or the bad Vlad?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObeKv0iNd_0
If we are talking about the same Vlad, ain’t no “good one”
I thought it was, ain’t no sunshine when she’s gone?
Make Romania Great Again. He resisted Muslim invasion. He wanted to build a wall, but the Ottomans wouldn’t pay for it.
So many “Greats” throughout history. Let’s see…there was the Great Depression, the Great Gatsby, and my personal favorite, Alexander The Great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfWq92zwiVE
— Jalen Ramsey
So what’s all this about the Niners (or Shanahan) needing a true #1 WR, Grant?
Ribico …
Ramsey is still griping about his top 5 D… getting carved up ?
I’d say he got schooled ! … Cuz as far as I know … Nowhere
in the NFL rule book does it say …
“only WRs are allowed to catch the ball” …
Seems Shanny believes everybody but the O-Linemen are
trained to catch the ball … and it wouldn’t surprise me if
Joe Staley caught a TD in this offense ..
Honestly .. Ramsey is beginning to remind me of someone
on this blog who couldn’t put the #7 debacle away … either
He took a the exact same 1 and 10 team on a five game winning streak against 5 pro football teams..give credit where credit is due…players still gotta execute
I think Jalen is right, it is premature to put him in the top 100. Don’t know which players voted but they are prone to hype like anyone else (see Oscar voting).
Is it all scheme? Nope! But it certainly helped him look real good too. As for KS growing in his role, he most certainly did and some of the early mistakes where less obvious as the season wore on.
What will do with his career? No one knows…however we get a first hand view. The pressure will be greater (he will have a target and will have to live up to the hype), and the stakes will be higher (team hype).
We will see what he and KS are made of as the game stakes go up. I remain skeptical of a lot of what the team can accomplish (guards and new OL, no pass rush, playmakers on offense, DB situation, backups, etc)
In our little corner of the Faithful, we have many who live outside the Bay Area tv market and a few in far flung countries. A bit of mildly good news for those is that the Niners website will be live streaming the pre-season games. Y’all can join us watching Pre-season 4th quarters with future truck drivers and construction workers running around.
: -)
OT, but the fix is in. Russia is meddling in the World Cup. Spaniard was obviously pulled down while trying to kick the ball for an easy goal, but even with replay, they did not call it correctly. Of course, there was no guarantee that Spain would have made that PK.
.
Russell Crowe as ‘The Spaniard‘ in Gladiator wouldn’t have tolerated that one bit…
At least he attacked his opponent! Spain seemed stagnant! Make no mistake, they deserved to lose! I have followed them for many years (When Hierro was a player in 94 and Tessotti knocked out Luis Enrique with a deliberate injury which meant that Spain was a man down for a portion of the game).
Isabella watched many of these players for years and can say Silva was subpar and De Gea a huge disappointment! Isco was the only consistent player. That is never enough! While I love the team, their listless play cost them and Hierro as a manager was not up to speed. Shouldn’t have fired Lopetegui 2 days prior to the tournament!
Every host country gets favorable calls. Excellent players get past it. Spain, for all its considerable talent, didn’t!
Can we please just get to the season so we can shut all the naysayers up. It’s intolerable. Goff sucked in year one with a terrible coach. In year 2, he became all world. Garoppolo has never had a bad coach. Now, he has the best offensive coach in the NFL. No QB under Shanahan’s has been anything less than really friggin’ good. He made Schaub look all-world, Hoyer was way better than his talent (Cleveland). Hell, even Griffin had an over 60% completion rate. Now, like Ryan he has another QB who has never shown anything but elite-level. At worst, Garoppolo throws for 4, 000 yds. At worst. Will he lower his INT’s? Maybe, but Favre was an INT machine and still one of the best ever. Garoppolo is a playmaker. He makes everyone around him better. He makes plays that others can’t (ala Favre, Rodgers, and Wilson). Other fans are just jealous because they cannot stand the fact that we lucked into him. For the Cards, Seahawks and Rams, it sucks. If he is elite, elite, it’s 10 years of heartbreak for them.
PS: You give Shanahan a whole offseason to prep for the Vikings – Good luck Vikes!
Yep, contrary to popular belief, Zimmer will be the loser and Shanny will be the winner on opening day.
Yup
Even though Jimmy was operating Shanny’s complex offense on the fly, and had arguably the worst offensive roster in the league, he still scored at an unprecedented rate of 62% per drive. This is why I’m bullish on his chances. Shanny has upgraded key positions on offense that fit what he wants, plus he gets Garcon back. Having full command of his offense, I expect Jimmy will exceed his 10.8 yards per pass and 63% completion rates for 2017, making the 49ers a very tough out during the 2018 campaign….
Vikings do not need luck.
.
They were the number one defense last season.
.
Cousins is considered an upgrade over Keenum by many pundits.
.
Zim-Tzu quotes The Art of War.
.Zim-Tzu quotes The Art of War.
He only made it to the NFCC Game, using those concepts. That was pretty effective.
Fun material in Mao’s Little Red Book as well…
And Jacksonville was right there at #2. Yet the stacked roster Niners, their scheme and their neophyte QB blew past them like they weren’t even there.
Just goes to show how important an accurate QB is.
.
Jags actually outgained the Niners 472 yards to 369 yards, but could not overcome the 3 picks.
When your team is winning basically by shutting down the opposition’s offense, and you don’t do that, yeah it’s likely you will lose.
49ers scoring – 44 (37 Hammer points), Jags avg 16.8
49ers rushing – 131 yds, Jags avg – 126 yds
49ers passing – 238 yds, Jags avg – 169 yds
This has morphed to the Jags, when the focus should be on the Vikings, their first opponent.
.
Guess now that RF is suspended 2 games. losing him for the Vikings game will make winning harder to accomplish. Hope you will concede that point.
I concede nothing. You can root for your sun-tzus, I’ll root for the Niners. And their OC.
I still want the Niners to win, but I will not be Pollyanish and say they will have an easy time doing it.
.
I am just being a realist, but hey, if you refuse to admit that losing the Niner middle linebacker is a big deal, I cannot make you concede that point.
Maybe some good news
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23967587/kam-chancellor-seattle-seahawks-safety-appears-announce-retirement-via-twitter
With no Boom, it’s the Legion of Gloom.
https://mobile.twitter.com/49ers/status/1013460716018233344/photo/1
“Wishing all of our Canadian fans a happy #CanadaDay!”
Ya eh!
Cubus, as a Norwesterner,
Who’s the Seattle GOAT at Strong Safety?
Kenny Easley or Kam?
Anybody?
Mine: Kam’s teams enjoyed more success, and he was a better draft value bargain.
Easley was even more talented. He gets my vote, but it’s close.
Actually, I haven’t been here that long. Moved up from San Francisco about a decade ago. So, I don’t even know who Kenny Easley is. But Kam owned Vernon Davis and was an enforcer type. He’s smart not to mess around with his neck: “My final test showed no healing”. I wonder how Garcon’s neck fracture was different.
As to history, Ronnie Lott and Ken Easley were the two WAY HIGH prospects. It was presumed, and occurred, that Seahawks took Easley and Niners(Walsh) took Lott. Lott’s Cb/S versatility was touted, and he played LCB for a couple of years. It was like having an OLB on the far edge. BIG presence.
But Kenny Easley was YUGE!
The year Walsh drafted a secondary. Lott, Eric Wright (“wimpy long strider who would be a long-shot to make a team/),
Williamson.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23967725/lebron-james-joining-los-angeles-lakers-4-year-1533-million-deal
Good call Grant.
Bron will still need another stud (Leonard) to have success in LA.
P. George would have been a nice piece but he is staying in OKC, so Kawiah is the mission at the moment.
Wasn’t crazy about McGee moving on but he accomplished his goal of winning two ships with GS.
I wish him the best.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/7/2/17524548/eagles-news-ringer-suggests-trade-philadelphia-49ers-nfl-san-francisco-brandon-graham-defensive-end
The article suggests a 2nd round pick. I wouldn’t hate that trade, but I’m thinking more like a 3rd.
Rather poor air quality… Hope they get a grip on the County Fire soon–hope all are safe.
With Lebron going to Lakers, does this mean Luke is out of a job, or just irrelevant?
King James insists on being HC and GM wherever he is.
Brotha,
Ha! I always felt that Ty Lue was nothing more than window dressing.
It was more than evident (especially in Finals) that Bron was running the team.
I’ll be watching from afar how Lue does next season. Lebron can make even the most average coach look like a genius.
Luke is a good coach but he will have plenty of in-house challenges with Bron who will be treated like royalty by the Org.
Got Jimmy?
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/02/jimmy-garoppolo-surges-past-tom-brady-in-nflshop-com-jersey-sales/
Cubus,
It’s all good and all hype mixed together.
JG had emerged as a popular player and that’s the “good.”
At the moment his popularity is based on hype.
I certainly hope that Jimmy G lives up to the hype and not fall into the Mozart Effect.
That said, I will be rooting for him and the entire team. https://media.giphy.com/media/11sBLVxNs7v6WA/giphy.gif
Not sure which one is more harmful for brain health: creating NFL’s top-100 list, or debating if a player should or should not be in it.
Nothing new about what Ramsey said recently. He has been downplaying JimiG’s playmaking right after they lost the game. See this report:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/24/jimmy-garoppolo-impresses-even-mighty-jaguars-defense-you-cant-hate-on-him-man/
Ramsey is nothing more than a sore loser and like many others in his generation he points at all factors rather than take responsibility for a humiliating loss.
Personally, I can live without an NFL Top 100 especially given the fact that the list changes from year to year. But it gives football fans something to talk about in the off season.
Agree on both points.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/patriots-react-ramseys-guarantee-he-should-be-confident
“I ain’t got too much to say, but y’all make sure you bring that same energy out here next week and the week after,” Ramsey said in Jacksonville following his team’s win in Pittsburgh. “We’re going to the Super Bowl and we’re going to win that (expletive). We’re going to win that (expletive).”
Doh!
:-)
Grant
, Nice article on the Giants 3 young pitchers this morn.
Gotta love this deal.
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/125162/happy-bobby-bonilla-day-his-annual-1-19-million-payday-is-here
“Every July 1, from 2011 to 2035, the Mets make the payment as part of deferring the $5.9 million the Mets owed him from the 2000 season, a year in which he didn’t play for the team, because they released him in January. As noted last year, Bonilla’s agent worked out a deal that deferred payment (with an 8 percent annual interest rate).”
“With eight payments now in, Bonilla has now collected $9,545,986.60. There are 18 more payments due to Bonilla through 2035. When all the payments are made, Bonilla will have turned that $5.9 million into $29.8 million.”
“All this looks even better from his home in Sarasota, Florida, where there’s no state income tax.”
Really good story on Saleh.
https://www.49ers.com/news/finance-to-football-robert-saleh-s-story-of-pursuing-his-passion
Yea, thanks for that, Dave. Enjoyed it.
Brodie2Washington says:
June 28, 2018 at 1:37 pm
The basic question: Will Garoppolo’s increased familiarity with the offense and teammates outweigh increased attention by defensive coordinators on Garoppolo (and 49er pass catchers too).
“Much ado about nothing.” JG will be fine. Dak Prescott tore it up as a rook. His 2nd year sans Zeke, Dak was subpar. And Dak didn’t have Tom Brady as a mentor.
Between Tom Brady and the new so called genius–Shanahan, I worry not. 49ers will find a way with a big hand to 2nd year continuity !
Holy Crap Boogie Cousins to the Warriors. I did not see that coming.
Oldcoach,
I’m with you on this. This came out of nowhere for me.
My first reaction is that Cousins’ sour attitude will not mesh well with Draymond and KD but since the contract is basically a one year “prove it” signing at a bargain garage sale deal, I can live with it.
If LeBron can’t get Khawi he will rue the day of signing on with LA.
Even the greatest player on earth can’t beat a team with 4 all-star starters on the floor.
Old Coach / AES
THINK ABOUT THIS:
The 2018-19 Warriors will be the 6th team in NBA history and first since the 1975-76 Celtics, to have five All-Stars from the previous season!
And this is why the NBA is a joke. You have 2 or 3 superteams vs. a league of Washington Generals.
Yep. Kudos to those who can get into watching a basketball game, but I’m glad I only get into football, as it sucks enough of my time up as it is….
This is nothing new. NBA has always had 2-3 dominant teams.
No argument but it’s become a league of all stars trying to get on one team and the league is a complete joke because of it.
Again that’s not really anything new, and the NBA is such a joke that it’s the one pro sports league with TV ratings actually going up.
Not to this extent. The league was a lot more competitive before LeBron started moving around to form all star teams and Durant joined a team that had already won a Championship. The Warriors now have 5 all starts on their team. It’s been more than 40 years since that occurred and that was a team that already had the players on the roster, not all starts joining after the fact.
Not really. Celtics: 11 chips in 13 years late 50’s-69. Lakers 5 chips in 80’s, Celtics 3. Bulls 6 chips in 90’s. Lakers/Spurs 8 in 00’s. NBA has always been about dominance.
Not to this degree. There have always been great teams, but it’s never been a case where you know only 2 or 3 teams have a chance at winning a title and the rest are fodder. The league was at least competitive during all of those Championship runs in the past. Whatever the case, the NBA sucks.
From 80-89 the Lakers and Celtics won 8 of 10 Championships. Both seasons that one of the two didn’t win it was the Lakers who were the losing team in the Finals.
They absolutely dominated that period in time, yet it’s also widely recognized as the reason for the explosion of NBA popularity.
“Six different NBA teams have won a title this decade. That’s the most of any decade since the 70’s.
80’s: LAL 5, Bos 3, Det 1, Philly 1
90’s: Chi 6, Hou 2, Det 1, SA 1
00’s: LAL 4, SA 3, Mia 1, Bos 1, Det 1
10’s: GS 3, Mia 2, LAL 1, SA 1, Dal 1, Cle 1” ~ from the great Al Sacco
Yeah I understand that. What I’m saying is it was at least competitive. There were some great teams during those era’s that didn’t win the Championship like Philly who only won one during the Lakers and Celtics run in the 80’s. The 90’s had a number of excellent teams like the Spurs, Knicks, Rockets and Jazz who truly had a shot at a Championship. For the last 4 years it’s been Cleveland and Golden State. We now have two real contenders for a title in the Warriors and Rockets going into next season unless the Lakers get Leonard. That isn’t compelling, at least not to me.
The Western Confernece is brutally tough. On the Eastern side it will be interesting to see how the Celtics and 76ers improve. If Boston has a healthy Kyrie and Hayward they could be formidable.
Rocket, for all thier all-star power and dominance, the Warriors made it out of the West by the skin of thier teeth. There are still teams that can and will give them a run for thier money, just not from the East. Because of teams familiarity with each other, I’ve always thought intra conference rivalries were the most compelling anyway.
http://walterfootball.com/offseason2018lar.php
“Quarterbacks have struggled after being separated from Olson – Freeman was quickly run out of the league – and Goff could follow this pattern now that Olson and LaFleur are coordinating the Raiders and Titans, respectively.”
“Goff was not making pre-snap reads last year, which has to be considered a red flag of sorts.”
Anyone that watched the Rams play saw that McVay had Goff running simple low to high concepts with half field reads that he could comprehend. Goff doesn’t scare anyone….
LOL @ people still trying to disparage Goff around here. The kid is the real deal.
Nah, his rookie year was a disparaging disaster. In his sophomore year he was efficient with McVay doing the mental heavy lifting for him. “With McVay defining his reads—and making it clear that Goff would benefit from a first-read open receiver on nearly every play—the signal-caller became far more comfortable and productive than he ever could have been in 2016 under then-head coach Jeff Fisher and his offensive coordinator, Rob Boras.”
Rocket, the question this year and moving forward is…will Goff be able to transcend his game to the next level? Dunno….
His rookie year was poor for many reasons and as I told you during the many times you predicted his failure, he was going to turn into a really good QB and he has. A lot of OC’s talk to their QB’s right up until cut off time including Shanahan. That was a non story and Goff was adept at going through his progressions once the ball was snapped. He wasn’t just a single read catch and throw QB and he’s going to get better and better as time goes on.
News Flash. He was a colossal failure for the exact reasons I stated, which was why the Rams reversed course and selected McVay for the Goff reclamation project….
Who the f¥<k cares? The guy was good last year. His HC played a big role in that. Nothing new.
Sounds a lot like Grants article actually.
Not sure who pissed in your Wheaties there, Hammer but the yellow milk should have been a big heads up for ya….
;>)
“the question this year and moving forward is…will Goff be able to transcend his game to the next level?”
This pretty much the exact same question asked by Grant with regards to the 49ers QB.
That’s because I am in fact, Grant.
;>)
Wait, I thought I was Grant.
Ha! Wait…I’m supposed to be, Seb!
Seriously, though. I didn’t watch every Rams game last year. Probably around 6 or so. The Thursday night game was thrilling. Probably my favorite loss. ;>(
The windows Jimmy was throwing through, with guys on top of him was not something I was able to witness from, Goff. It’ll be interesting to see the swath their respective careers carve out….
Hey rocket, hammer, is there any law preventing fans from running down opponent’s players even if they are good?
Not at all rib. This Goff thing has been going on since his draft year though and is more than just an opposing teams player getting criticized. I was on an island with one or two others who agreed with me, that Goff was going to be drafted in the top 5 and become a really good NFL QB. Now instead of just accepting that he has become a really good QB, the resistance takes a turn in a different direction. That is what keeps arguments going for years on end ;)
We’ll see rocket. Kaep had a pretty good year or two also. No need to respond with the obvious “that’s more than JG has had.”
Or what about Dak? One year wonder? Will CFC rue the props he’s been piling in his direction?
No he wasn’t Razor. You criticized everything from the offense he played in to how much he weighed and the simple fact of the matter was he struggled because he was playing for a lousy OC and had no Oline in front of him. You have been wrong about this kid from the beginning and it’s continuing it seems.
Yep, but I was right. I knew he’d fail under Fischer just like I knew Trubiscuit would under Fox. He played in a simpleton offense under old, Sony. I’m not the only one critical of his success last year, Rocket. Let’s see how he does this year before we exclaim he’s arrived…
Sorry man but you weren’t right. In the run up to the draft you ripped everything about him and said he’d be a bust. Then once they fired Fisher you started to allow for the fact that he could be better with an offensive minded Coach even though you were still critical of him as a player. You can’t rewrite history my man. I have no problem saying he’s arrived because he has. He was excellent last year and will be better after a year in the system much like Garoppolo here.
Yea, that’s not correct but it’s fine. If they would have hired an incompetent offensive mind, I would have continued to believe Goff would fail. Since they hired McVay, in my mind the odds of salvaging him went up exponentially. I believe I had Goff with a 30% chance of success under Fisher, which I changed to 65% chance of success under McVay. McVay had the means to develop him, and I believe Nagy does as well wrt, Trubiscuit. I call that, history repeating itself….
Razor those are things you said after the fact. You said he’d be a bust in the lead up to the draft and criticized everything about him. It wasn’t until he was actually in the NFL and playing that you allowed for the fact he may be better with a different OC. Not trying to be a jerk here, but you were and continue to be critical of this kid while allowing a caveat that he could be ok if….
Life’s full of caveat’s, not to mention the NFL. No worries. My concerns are you’re gonna take it too hard when we beat the f¥<k out of him twice a year. I hope you’ll be able to find the silver lining in those ass kickings….
Not at all. It’s not about cheering for Goff; it’s about all the arguments about this kid in the lead up to the draft. Gotta keep it real.
Goff is lucky the Rams realized the error of their ways, and we’re able to procure, McVay. Otherwise, Goff would most likely be ruined in short order. The dude couldn’t even beat out Mannion….
Yep. Another year or two under Fisher likely would have ruined him.
From the horse’s mouth.
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/30/16719282/rams-sean-mcvay-jared-goff-job-pre-snap-communication-cheating-rules
“Most of the time, (McVay) calls the play and he knows what he’s talking about, so I let him do it,” Goff said. “But there’s plenty of times where it gets below 15 [seconds on the play clock] and we have to ad-lib it a little bit. It doesn’t happen often, but there are times where that’ll happen.”
First. The idea that the Rams were cheating is total BS.
Second. It’s OK to disagree with me, my panties will not get twisted.
Third. McVay held Goff’s hand more often than not.
I read that article when it came out and it’s nothing new. That’s the way McVay operates. He did the same thing in Washington. It’s not something new because Goff needs the help. Shanahan does the same thing. They talk to the QB right up until the 15 second cutoff because it’s an advantage.
I’m aware of that. IIRC, McVay said he learned it from Kyle.
“It’s not something new because Goff needs the help.”
Sure does. And that’s the point. Shanny does it too, but Jimmy can make pre-snap adjustments in his sleep. Jimmy also plays well under pressure. Does Goff?
http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles-rams/post/_/id/37409/rams-expecting-another-step-forward-for-jared-goff
“But he completed only 34.4 percent of his passes while under duress, which ranked 29th. Operating under pressure stands out as a major target for improvement. So does ball security, with Goff fumbling eight times this past season.”
I really hope our pass rushing gets better.
Actually McVay has said Goff has the freedom to call an audible and he wouldn’t be given that ability if he couldn’t do it. Don’t confuse McVay putting him into good situations with Goff not being able to read a defense.
Completion percentage under pressure is not an indication of how good a QB is in those situations. Protecting the football and not throwing picks is just as good as completing a short pass that leaves you short of a first down. PFF had Goff rated 12th in the league under pressure and 4th against the Blitz quite a bit higher than Garoppolo in fact. He does need to cut down on the fumbles but most of them happened because he stood in the pocket trying to make a play.
Goff should be ok. He’s got a hell of a team on paper.
“Actually McVay has said Goff has the freedom to call an audible”
I would hope so. We saw that with his TD to Reynolds. But more often than not, he was doing what McVay suggested (which is smart, so credit where credit is due).
“He does need to cut down on the fumbles but most of them happened because he stood in the pocket trying to make a play.”
Those fumbles are just as bad as picks, usually worse because of field position. And the part about standing in the pocket too long reminds me of CJ and Hoyer.
He has things to work on, but the performance in year one of the system was pretty good. I think between Garoppolo, Goff and Wilson and maybe Rosen in a year or two, this division will feature the best group of QB’s in the league in the not too distant future.
Agreed.
Rosen was my #1 QB in the draft. I thought Shanny would like him. Then we got Jimmy.
:-)
http://settingedge.com/week-12-qb-spotlight-jared-goff-and-how-stats-lie-through-good-supporting-casts
“Goff’s warts, specifically his limited arm talent, processing, and ability to react under pressure, place a ceiling on the potency of the Rams offense and will likely come back to hurt the Rams come playoff time, especially in rough weather conditions.”
It’s too bad that they lost in the playoffs in large part due to turnovers on special teams otherwise the validity of that quote may have been tested.
I’m not saying the ST’s turnovers weren’t a factor. However…
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-rams-falcons-hernandez-20180106-story.html
“Goff completed 62% of his passes in the regular season, but only 53% on this night, misfiring on 21 of his 45 throws. His completion percentage was under 50% for a majority of the game.”
“Of his 259 yards, 102 came in the Rams’ final two possessions, after the Falcons scored a final touchdown that put the game out of reach.”
“The Rams went three and out on their first two possessions, as Goff was sacked twice in the first four minutes of the game.”
“They played nearly eight minutes before finally registering a first down, predictably, on a run by a Gurley. But after three more pass attempts by Goff, the Rams had to punt again.”
“The Rams, who averaged 29.9 points per game in the regular season, were blanked in the opening quarter. Goff completed only one of five passes for three yards in the period.”
Sure, just imagine how poorly he might have played in cold weather.
What’s funny about the whole dumping on Goff thing, to me at least, is that most of what is happening to help Goff is what they do here too so you’re kinda putting Garoppolo in the same boat.
You say, “Jimmy can make pre snap adjustments in his sleep” when Goff’s HC says the same about his QB.
Both guys are good. They’re playing in basically the same system. One is 23 while the other is 26. They’re both likely to be the top 2 in the NFC West for years to come. We’ll see.
Hope your panties aren’t in a bunch. Learn something new every day around here.
Yep it’s funny how JG can do these things that Goff supposedly can’t when they were both coached and managed relatively the same.
I find the fact that, Goff is rooming with, Trubiscuit much more interesting. Shows he’s a good guy.
I think your first comment was laughable.
“It’s too bad that they lost in the playoffs in large part due to turnovers on special teams otherwise the validity of that quote may have been tested.”
As if those turnovers absolved Goff’s poor performance.
What’s really funny is that you have frequently dismissed Garoppolo and are now using ST’s turnovers to prop up Goff. Hmm.
Prop up Goff? No sweetie. Just pointing out that the 10 points that Atlanta got from those changed the complexion of the game. Kinda similar to what happened up here with Kyle Williams in 2011.
Goff didn’t have a good game but the Falcons defense was playing well and got a lot of pressure on him. They held the Eagles to 15 points a week later.
Let’s put it this way #80, Goff was playing his first full season in a new offense with all new receivers around him and finished top ten in pretty much every meaningful QB stat while leading his team to the playoffs. It seems silly to be speculating on how much he’s going to regress because he lost a couple of Coaches who don’t call the plays, at least to me. He was a number one pick for a reason.
“Goff didn’t have a good game”
Thank you rocket.
“…changed the complexion of the game.”
Yes it did. It allowed Goff to pad his stats during garbage time.
rocket,
Wrt your last paragraph. Goff was good, but he could regress. Losing the two coaches doesn’t help. The Walter article was typical hyperbole, I don’t expect Goff to be out of the league in two years.
But the Falcons provided the blueprint to beat LA. Stop Gurley and force Goff to beat you.
We’ve seen number one picks discarded to the NFL quarterback scrap yard time and again. Being a number one pick doesn’t mean dink. Unless you’re a Manning or Luck, most recently, Rosen, today’s quarterbacks need a proven offensive developer on staff to warrant making that kind of investment at the top of the draft. Actually, I think the Eagles gave the Rams the blueprint, who then gave it to the Bears….
“Yes it did. It allowed Goff to pad his stats during garbage time.”
Who cares? Nobody brought up his playoff stats
“Who cares? Nobody brought up his playoff stats”
Seriously, what is wrong with you? I brought up the playoff game, you then tried to dismiss it because of turnovers. I then brought up his stats, which makes your “Nobody brought up his playoff stats” quote false. After that you again tried to dismiss Goff’s performance because of the turnovers.
#80,
I think Jack just means that the TO’s were the biggest difference in the game. In a close contest that can go either way TO’s are a killer and that was the case in that game regardless of Goff’s performance.
Regardless of the turnovers, Goff didn’t play well in the biggest game of his career. That can’t be omitted from a discussion about Goff’s future.
Settle down and fix your panties sweetie. Here is my initial response to you in this thread.
“Jack Hammer says:
July 3, 2018 at 3:16 pm
It’s too bad that they lost in the playoffs in large part due to turnovers on special teams otherwise the validity of that quote may have been tested.”
Which I followed up with,
“Jack Hammer says:
July 3, 2018 at 3:57 pm
Sure, just imagine how poorly he might have played in cold weather.”
I never said I thought he played good or bad, only that the game was impacted by 2 big special teams errors.
I think the problem here is that you are taking my comments to mean that he played good which I never said.
As for his future, I think he’ll probably be good as long as McVay is his HC. But I already said that earlier.
You are correct Rocket.
This is the quote you responded to.
““Goff’s warts, specifically his limited arm talent, processing, and ability to react under pressure, place a ceiling on the potency of the Rams offense and will likely come back to hurt the Rams come playoff time, especially in rough weather conditions.”
It did come back to hurt them in the playoffs, partly because of Goff. You said the validity of that quote wasn’t tested. But it was tested, Goff played poorly.
He didn’t no doubt about it, but that doesn’t change the fact he was a top ten QB during the regular season and the entire body of work provides a pretty encouraging future.
He’s good, but he’s in a good situation. Cousins is still trying to shake off that reputation. We’ll see how it goes over the next several seasons.
Right, and I was mostly focusing on this, “especially in rough weather conditions.” which they would have faced in Philly
Whatever you say Jack.
Thanks, since I’m pretty sure I know what I was thinking when I responded
Whatever you think Jack.
GEEP,
You are correct, and I should have noted that GS will have 5 all-stars on the floor rather than 4.
That said, they will be the big bullies (Goliath) that opposing teams will try to bring down and basketball pundits will expect to win another title. But that comes with the territory after signing Boogy.
Also, I think that the GS/LA rivalry will develop into something special for the next couple of seasons while the players involved are at the peak of their prime.
Teams like the Warriors don’t come around often, so I will enjoy their window of success while it’s here.
Being a Bay Area sports fan for over 60 years has afforded me the opportunity to witness the 49ers, SFGiants, Warriors, A’s and yes, even the hated Raiders win championships.
Just waiting for the Sharks now.
No doubt a lot of “meaningless “ Warriors games next season as they coast into the playoffs.
No doubt. Part of why they could sign a guy like this who won’t play for the first 2 months of the season.
Is that the same rationale Baalke used in signing all those gimps?
AES
“Being a Bay Area sports fan for over 60 years has afforded me the opportunity to witness the 49ers, SFGiants, Warriors, A’s and yes, even the hated Raiders win championships. Just waiting for the Sharks now.”
* Nothing wrong with being spoiled…..lol
* And a few more 9er SB wins with JG…..gotta love it
at the risk of inciting someone who cannot stay away..
I offer .. This piece…. on a subject which ..(to some)
is of vital and social importantance
AES,
Don’t forget the Earthquakes who won two MLS titles with the first edition of the team. Of course, some may consider those wins “meaningless”, but the newer version of the team won the Supporters Shield (best regular season record) in 2012.
Mood,
Ha! Seems like “meaningless” is becoming the new norm in these parts lately.
But bringing this up is, well, meaningless.
GEEP, Mood,
Looking forward to Jimmy G taking us to the promise land.
Forgot the Earthquakes (oops).
Do you guys remember the Oakland Invaders (semi) football team that started up after Al Davis moved the team to LA?
My memory is a little hazy these days, but was Gary Plummer on the Invaders team before coming to the 49ers?
Oakland Invaders Championship Game…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4uG2hZFkNs
Cassie,
Thanks, that’s awesome!
Foster suspended for two games.!!!!
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/116801-nfl-suspends-49ers-reuben-foster-two-games/
Nailed it!
Kind of bugs me though, Bradham got only a one game suspension for assault and battery which I find to be a greater offense then possession of some pot.
Dave, I think it’s the culmination of events beginning with already being enrolled in the substance abuse program. I do think they took into consideration the false accusation, and the ensuing defamation, cost and anguish he suffered because of it….
I understand that and quite frankly he broke a rule and deserves the two games, I just think Bradham should of received a greater suspension – after all assault and battery there is a victim.
Yea, absolutely agree with you there. I wasn’t familiar with Bradham’s situation. Seems he should have received at least a 6 game suspension for the first offense….
Good call Razor. I feel it should have been 1 game, but it’s Goodell. I was actually worried that Roger might give Foster a lengthy suspension to get back at us for Jed’s activism.
I glad the decision was made now. It’s good that we’re accepting the ruling. I’d rather have Foster miss the first two games than later games like Zeke.
We will get a decent look at Warner. And I think he will look good.
Can’t wait for Grant’s hot take on the two game suspension…
2 games for Foster
That is just about what I thought he would get. He will probably get dinged up in the preseason and be suspended for 2 games which will give him time to get healthy.
Well done, OldCoach!
Oldcoach,
It wouldn’t surprise me if Foster brings his own tricked-out tent to games ?
Good news, and also no surprise.
The big money was on 2 games or fewer. I figured 2 on the high-end, with a real possibility of 1 game (and a slim chance of no suspension at all). I know a lot of people pointed to the Zeke and Hardy suspension’s as examples of Goodell handing out punishment despite a criminal conviction. However, what Goodell and the league does is determine, through their own investigations, which facts are more-likely-than-not to be true (or false), in these kinds of cases. Once Foster’s accuser testified to having fabricated the entire incident, and then it came to light that she has a history of making these exact kind of false allegations in the past, it seemed a forgone conclusion for me that it was highly unlikely that Goodell’s NFL could come to any conclusion other than that it was more-likely-than-not, that the assault actually never took place, hence the 2 game suspension for the marijuana possession/watered down urine and assault weapon charge.
Well done!
Now the question becomes …. has this ordeal been enough to shake some sense into Reuben so that he cleans up his act and starts carrying himself like a professional?
One can only hope :{) GO NINERS!
That’s good to hear. I figured he’d get 4. I hope this is his wake up call because anymore screw ups and he’s done.
We’ll be 2-0 when Foster returneth!
Yeth, inDoobilithly.
At leath I hopeth stho
;>)
The way I figure it, we know Cousins better than they know Jimmy. Kirk knows the Vikings less than Jimmy knows the 49ers, plus, Zimmer didn’t impress me much against Foles. Shanny may not have the stable, but he has the horses and a summer of preparation. That’s why I think we defeat the Vikings….