Penn State running back Saquon Barkley runs a drill during the NFL football scouting combine, Friday, March 2, 2018, in Indianapolis. (AP Photo/Darron Cummings)
Note: This mock draft could change dramatically after free agency.
1. Cleveland Browns: Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State.
Analysis: Barkley is the best player in the draft. He will tremendously help whichever quarterback the Browns get.
2. New York Giants: Sam Darnold, QB, USC.
Analysis: The Giants have to draft an heir apparent to Eli Manning while they’re in position to do so.
TRADE: Buffalo sends two first-round picks this year, plus a first-rounder and a second-rounder next year to Indianapolis in exchange for the third pick this year.
3. Buffalo Bills: Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA.
Analysis: The Bills are a playoff team that needs a quarterback who’s ready to play right away. Rosen can play right away.
4. Cleveland Browns: Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming.
Analysis: Allen is raw — he needs a season to sit on the bench and develop. And the Browns can afford to sit him. They’re years away from being good. Allen is the perfect quarterback for them.
5. Denver Broncos: Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame.
Analysis: This assumes the Broncos sign a veteran quarterback such as Kirk Cousins or Case Keenum.
6. New York Jets: Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma.
Analysis: This assumes the Jets don’t sign Cousins or Keenum.
7. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Bradley Chubb, DE, N.C. State.
Analysis: The Buccaneers defense ranked last in sacks last season.
8. Chicago Bears: Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech.
TRADE: Green Bay send a first-round pick, a third-round pick and a fourth-round pick to San Francisco in exchange for the ninth pick.
9. Green Bay Packers: Minkah Fitzpatrick, CB/S, Alabama.
Analysis: Fitzpatrick joins the Alabama connection in the Packers secondary with safety Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix.
10. Oakland Raiders: Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State.
Analysis: Ward joins the Ohio State connection in the Raiders secondary with cornerback Gareon Conley.
11. Miami Dolphins: Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia.
Analysis: Smith will replace veteran linebacker Lawrence Timmons.
12. Cincinnati Bengals: Derwin James, S, Florida State.
Analysis: The Bengals need an offensive tackle, but won’t reach for one here. Instead, they’ll take best defensive player.
13. Washington Redskins: Vita Vea, DT, Washington.
Analysis: The Redskins run defense was abysmal last season.
14. San Francisco 49ers: Isaiah Wynn, G, Georgia.
Analysis: The 49ers have to protect Jimmy Garoppolo. Wynn can play any position on the offensive line.
15. Arizona Cardinals: Lamar Jackson, QB, Louisville.
Analysis: Jackson will give the Cardinal an electric rushing threat to pair with running back David Johnson.
Interesting, Grant. I see Landry is no where to be found. Buffalo going for Rosen just makes too much sense. No one to develop one, and Rosen is the most developed….
Davenport will get picked before Landry.
Yea, that’s a whole lot of projection. I’d go with the proven production in Landry, who was a top 10 pick, right behind Key, going into the 2017 season. He’s got the best bend, flaten, and explosion to the arc, while Kiffin will be tasked with fortifying his arsenal….
Davenport can convert speed to power. He’s similar to Chubb.
I don’t think there’s much separation between Chubb and Landry actually. Davenport is a bigger projection than I’d risk in the top 15, but I’m just a hack, so you could be right. Barrows agrees with you. I just think Davenport is redundancy with Armstead. We need to add a Landry style rusher to help unleash our 3t penetration….
I agree that Landry is a better fit for the 49ers. But I think most teams would grade Davenport higher. I don’t see the projection. He was terrific in the Senior Bowl.
The way I interpreted reports were he was man handled during one on ones, but he gradually improved throughout the process. He had a good game too….
Davenport is a big time gamble imo. I would not take him in the first and definitely not at #9 but I’m just a hack too.
Some team will make that gamble in the teens. Probably not the 49ers, though.
I’d grade Davenport as a mid to late 2nd round pick. Landry was a top 10 pick last year, and I see no reason he’s not this year. Unless there’s a medical red flag that I’m not aware of….
Yeah somebody will bite in the first, but I agree it won’t be the Niners. He is high risk and all potential at this point.
Doesn’t Saleh’s defense call for a speed edge rusher at LEO? Doesn’t sound like Davenport. We have enough “power” guys already up front, but little speed to close the deal. Landry fits the bill.
Davenport is fast.
But I heard he’s a riskier pick. Landry combined for 21.5 sacks in 2 seasons and drew a lot of double team’s in 2017, a problem he won’t have in San Fran because of Defo.
This is so incorrect. Landry >>> Davenport. Focus on 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle you dunce.
James will get picked before Fitzpatrick. You could be right about Davenport.
Chris Trapasso of CBSSports.com countered with, “Sure, Davenport’s played lower competition for most of his collegiate career. But he posted 4.5 tackles for loss and three sacks in outings against Arizona, Kansas State, Texas A&M, and Baylor while at UT-San Antonio.”
Projection: First round
“A fast riser right now, Davenport put up 8.5 sacks and 17.0 TFL,” wrote ESPN.com’s Todd McShay.
Height/weight: 6-6, 255
Year: Senior
Pros: “He has the length and athleticism to play on the edge in the NFL. The senior racked up 55 tackles with 17.5 tackles for a loss, 8.5 sacks, four passes batted and three forced fumbles in 2017. Davenport recorded 6.5 sacks as a junior after racking up four as a sophomore,” wrote Charlie Campbell of WalterFootball.com.
http://www.cleveland.com/nfl-draft/index.ssf/2018/03/marcus_davenport_utsa_de_2018.html
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/971405682816831488
https://t.co/7E7wZclZRs
Marcus Davenport Highlights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyTQtQotzc
Love the trade down idea, but man oh man if Chubb fell that far I’d really be tempted to trade up to get him. I’d take Landry if it fell this way and be very happy.
Wynn at 14 would be a good pick, especially if they don’t get a decent OG in FA.
I really am of the belief the 49ers will go pass rusher first round though. And while some teams my not value Landry as a top 15 pick, I think the 49ers will as he looks a perfect fit for the Leo role, as he is a very similar player to Cliff Avril and Vic Beasley.
I find it hard to believe the 49ers will spend their top pick on a defensive lineman for the fourth year in a row.
True, but it’s a different type of DL at arguably their biggest position of need. Very different than the 3 straight drafts of 3T’s.
Still, the 49ers have much bigger long-term investments on their DL than on their OL or in their secondary. Those are bigger needs.
49ers pass rush was tied for third worst in the NFL in sacks. Dominant pass rush improves the whole defense. Can’t see a bigger need than that.
Edge rusher for first selection is a result of supply and demand, Grant. Supply and demand…
Normally I would agree with you, but I don’t believe the 49ers FO gives much thought to what the previous regime did. They didn’t care that prior to selecting Thomas the team had drafted two DTs in the first round the past two drafts. And I don’t think they will care the team has now taken DL three years in a row.
Also, as rocket said, Landry fills a very different role to the one the other guys they have taken.
The 49ers have two of their four defensive line positions filled with first-round picks the team hopes will be cornerstones for a decade — Thomas and Buckner.
How many players like that do the 49ers have on the offensive line? Or in the secondary?
They will be adding veteran players at both of those positions this offseason, as well as draft picks. I can definitely see a scenario of taking OL first round. But my belief is it will be a Leo. Mainly because the depth at OL is much better.
“They will be adding veteran players at both of those positions this offseason, as well as draft picks.”
Not the same as adding first-round-pick franchise-cornerstones to those positions. The Niners have none in the OL or secondary. They have two on the DL. They can’t spend all of their first-round picks on one position group.
No, you’re right, its not. But end of the day you simply need to focus on what is best for your team overall, based on what is available. And in this instance addressing the pass rush is going to be nigh impossible via FA, while CB and OL can be.
Grant
C’mon man…it’s been hashed over sooo often…Solomon Thomas was never going to grow longer arms or legs…he was a loyalty bias pick who will haunt John Lynch as long as he is a niner…I don’t know if he is an outright ‘bust’ , but even if he does improve, he’ll be losing ground to those who should be playing ahead of him…O.K. Foster was a bad pick (at this point) it shouldn’t be so difficult to ‘fess up that so was Thomas….Trade him for some draft capitol and let’s get on with life….
You’ll eat those words…
Bill
Only to the Stanford alums; don’t be so parochial…I’m the same way about Armstead
You can’t hold Lynch responsible for Baalke’s mistakes. You might as well pretend that Armstead wasn’t drafted, because he doesn’t have a place in our D really.
You could also make the argument that speed on the edge will immensely maximize our investments in Buckner and Thomas, since QBs will finally be forced to step up in the pocket. Right now then can stay comfortable at the depth of their drop, as there’s no threat around the edge.
You can find speed off the edge in Round 3.
Your right, I can’t believe this either, it’s time for the offense to get better, and starting with getting some
protection for Jimmy and his 137 mil.
Let’s just hope he’s not Leonard Floyd or Bruce Irvin or Bud Dupree. I think Landry has better flexibility and speed around the arc than those guys. Kiffin will have the essential material to mold his pass rushing Leo into a formidable force to be reckoned with….
Landry may be a pure speed rusher, like Dante Fowler. Not a speed rusher who also can convert speed to power, like Yannick Ngakoue. The 49ers should not spend their first-round pick on another Dante Fowler.
Fowler isn’t a good pass rusher because he is tight hipped and not agile enough to be a consistent speed rusher. Not the case for Landry. Landry is more like Avril and Beasley.
Bruce Irvin is a better example. Speed and agility, but no power.
Avril and Ngakoue have speed, agility and power.
Yes, Irvin is also similar athletically. I think Landry is significantly better as a run defender than Irvin was coming out of college though (not hard, Irvin was awful). Landry isn’t great, but he is competent.
Irvin as a pass rusher is also more likely to simply try and run around the OT, as opposed to Landry who actually has an effective ability to bend around the corner.
A lot of mediocre rushers can bend around the corner. The good ones also have power.
Not as well as Landry does.
Landry’s ability to keep an OT off his frame and disengage is also underrated. Watch him on play action passes and you will see he has a number of instances where he does an excellent job of taking the OT head on, keeping his arms extended, then disengaging and getting after the QB once he reads pass.
Obviously Landry will need to develop some elements of his game. But he has a lot of nice tools to work with and looks a great fit for Leo to me.
NFL.com says Landry does not convert speed to power. Maybe Zierlein is wrong.
Wouldn’t be the first time.
Landry benched 24 reps. He’s not a finished product, but he’s got blue chip traits that make him a top 10 pick to me….
Bruce Irvin benched 23 reps.
I don’t think Irvin has the balance and flexibility to get as low as Landry can bending around the arc with speed.
Landry has no counter move, no power element, and he’s sub par against the run. He can be an asset as a one-note speed rusher on third down, but unless he improves his game, he won’t be a starting Leo.
That’s what Kiffin was hired for, wasn’t it? I thought his speciality was quarterback sick ’em 101. Landry possesses the blue chip traits than cannot be taught, but he can be taught techniques, and gain strength through a NFL strength and conditioning program throughout the year. I’d start him as a situational pass rusher like they did with Aldon Smith….
All the more reason to take a Leo in the third round.
Irvin was also 20 pounds lighter then Landry.
Lol, so much stupid in this post.
When I mentioned Floyd I didn’t mean it as a comparison. They are different players. Floyd and Dupree are very much more LBs than edge rushers, though they are being cast as edge rushers by their teams. I actually think Floyd and Dupree would both be good fits as SAM backers for the 49ers. That can then be used as DEs in nickel.
Analytics overview
Davenport currently has Pro Football Focus’ third-highest grade among all 4-3 defensive ends in the country, trailing just Bradley Chubb and Nick Bosa. On 199 pass-rush snaps in 2017, Davenport has accumulated 43 pressures (eight sacks, six hits, 29 hurries).
That equates to PFF’s highest Pass-Rushing Productivity Score — a metric that measures how often a defender creates pressure relative to how often he rushes the quarterback — among 94 defensive ends playing in a 4-3 who’ve participated in at least 50 percent of their team’s snaps. (For perspective, Von Miller has amassed 49 quarterback pressures on 249 pass-rush snaps this season.)
And Davenport’s run-stopping grade is the third-best among all players at his position.
Beyond all that, he isn’t some obscure, one-year wonder. In 2016, he had the No. 15 overall PFF grade among 159 qualifying 3-4 outside linebackers. The year before that, Davenport was given the No. 62 overall grade among 286 4-3 defensive ends who qualified.
The guy can play. Simple as that.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-utsa-pass-rusher-marcus-davenport-has-enormous-nfl-potential/
Puke.. I would literally puke if the niners did that
Absolutely nailed the Browns.. IMO, Josh Allen is the best QB in the draft. They sign AJ McCarron, draft Allen and get Barkley. Huge upgrade and set at QB for a long time allowing Allen to develop..
Still awful early past the 4th pick. The Niners will select who they couldn’t address in Free Agency, so it could be a Guard, a Corner, a LB or an edge rusher. Trading down is likely unless they strike out in Free Agency which ain’t happening..
Thanks, Don.
No he did not. Laughable to think the Browns take a RB 1st overall and settle on best remaining QB. Would be fired for that. This is not FF. Browns not taking a RB lol, they have so many holes to fill.
I’ll leave this here so you can educate yourself Grant.
https://twitter.com/JoshNorris/status/971112851443277824
You’re only proving that you need to be educated. Rumors coming from the Combine have stated that Barkley is at the top of the draft board for the Browns.
Said it 100 times. If the 49ers stand pat (no trade) the best value at that spot is Vita Vea. Then split time between Pita and Dumervil at the Leo….Plug and play, no doubt Pro Bowler, Day 1.
Isn’t this the type of player the 49ers have whiffed on lately ? Go for explosiveness 49ers. Crush the Rams and Seattles O-Line….Oh and by the way, he also lines up at D-End for the Huskies !
UW’s Vita Vea shows off ‘scary’ explosiveness at NFL Scouting …
The Seattle Times-Mar 4, 2018
All those guys aren’t as good, plus a couple come with serious injury history. I think Landry is a top ten pick, but if they can get him later…more power to ’em! I think the Packers would have keen interest. Matthews is getting long in the tooth….
Landry is like a Porsche Spyder around the corner, and the rest are more like Toyota Supras.
Lol, what a terrible trade. Your ignorance knows no bounds. Astonishing you cover a sport you know so little about.
The notion the Browns will take RB at 1 and settle for whatever QB falls to them at 4 is beyond stupid.
GB isn’t moving up for Minkah and we wouldn’t move back for a 3rd and 4th to draft a guard lol with much better prospects at positions of need still on the board.
Do you even think these things through or is it the path to quickest clickbait that guides you?
Worst Mock I’ve seen so far. And that’s only because Edmunds isn’t our pick at 9. ??
Ninermd
+1
Harold Landry looks like a bad ass. Has some Robert Mathis in him.
https://twitter.com/JoshNorris/status/971112851443277824
The 49ers should flat out trade out of the first round completely unless Chubb or Barkley slip that far. Get an extra second and third this year and a first and third next year. The value chart says the 49ers would get a first an second the year after but 1st and 4th would be good for the 49ers.
My mock.
1. Browns: QB Darnold
2. Giants: QB Allen
3. Colts: DE Chubb
4. Browns: HB Barkley
5. Broncos: QB Rosen
6. Jets: QB Mayfield
7. Buccaneers: CB Ward
8. Bears: G Nelson
9. 49ers: LB/sub package LEO Edmunds
#80
I can dig-it
I kind of think there’ll be a couple of trades involving the top ten spots…
http://draftanalyst.com/pro-day-march-7-alabamacoloradocolorado-state
“Cornerback Tony Brown stood on his pro day numbers but looked sensational in drills. Brown met with almost ten teams one-on-one over the past 24 hours including the Tennessee Titans, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Miami Dolphins, Washington Redskins and San Francisco 49ers.”
“A svelte Bradley Bozeman, one of the few Crimson Tide prospects who was not invited to the combine, tipped the scales at 298 pounds (down from 315), completed 27 reps on the bench press.”
Your mock makes sense Grant provided Nelson is not there at 9. I think he will be. There are plenty of mocks I’ve seen that have Nelson going 9-12. If he goes early, make that trade if they can. They still get a versatile G/C/T in Wynn and 2 more early and mid round picks. Hard to argue with that scenario, though they still need to address the Foster suspension issue so I think they could keep 9 even if Nelson goes and take Smith. I’ll be happy with any one of those situations.
If Chubb falls to the 7th pick, I can easily see the Niners jumping up into that spot. I vehemently disagree with Saquon Barkley at no. 1. Why would the Browns risk losing out on the QB that they want for a RB that might last 7 years at best vs a QB that could go 15? And don’t say “because they’re the Browns”. New GM in Cleveland.
Josh Rosen ready to play?! Did you even watch him at the Combine? Horribly inaccurate on short to medium throws. Allen won’t make it past the 2nd pick if the Browns pass on him.
Josh Rosen ready to play?! Did you even watch him at the Combine? Horribly inaccurate on short to medium throws. Allen was spot on all day and has a cannon for an arm. If the Browns pass on him, he won’t make it past the 2nd pick. Josh Allen no. 1 to Cleveland.
None of the QBs are worth the first pick. The Browns should take Barkley or trade down.
I disagree. I think Darnold and Rosen are worthy of the top pick and far more valuable than a RB no matter how athletic he is. Next in line would be a pass rusher and Chubb would be the pick if you don’t go QB imo. The hype train on Barkley has gone off the tracks. Drafting a RB first overall would be a move the old Cleveland Brown front office would pull. I don’t see John Dorsey doing that.
Darnold has major decision-making issues and Rosen has shoulder and concussion issues. Neither should be ranked in the top 15 prspects, but they’ll get taken in the top five because teams always reach for quarterbacks.
Darnold’s only issue is protecting the ball. He has everything you want in a QB and is still learning based on the fact he’s only started for a season and a half. As far as Rosen goes, injuries happen but he doesn’t have any issues other than some teams seem worried about his upbringing and love for the game along with his attitude. Both are extremely talented and worthy of the #1 pick imo. I don’t disagree that QB’s get pushed up the order due to the position and need, but they are both excellent prospects. I can’t see any team taking a RB over them or Chubb.
Darnold’s decision making got worse the more he played in college. That’s a huge red flag.
I would never take a quarterback who has concussion and shoulder issues with the first pick.
I’m a USC guy so I could be biased I admit, but the biggest problem Darnold had this year was his protection up front. The OL wasn’t very good going into the season and got worse due to injury and the playing of FR who weren’t anywhere near ready. He survived the season and played pretty well overall. I think he’s going to be a great NFL QB.
Rosen played on a terrible team and was the only reason they were even competitive this year. Injuries are always a concern for any player, but he only missed significant time in year two and will get bigger in an NFL weight program. He had no history of concussions before the two he suffered late this past season, so to me that’s a non issue, but who knows how NFL teams will view it. Whatever the case, he is a great prospect who will be ready to step in day one imo.
You’re a USC guy? No wonder we don’t get along. :)
I watched Darnold and agree he had poor protection. Still, his decision-making got worse, not better, after his first season as a starter. That’s not good. I still really like him, but wouldn’t take him No. 1.
I also watched Rosen. Yes, he played on a horrible team. Yes, he’s a fantastic talent. But he’s a quarterback prospect with a history of concussions and shoulder injuries. That knocks him down a peg.
I thought you knew that? That must be the reason I haven’t been banned yet :)
So that’s what happened to Claude Balls.
Was thinking just yesterday the big 4 non quarterbacks (Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, Fitzpatrick) + Tremaine Edwards could very well be gone by pick 9.
A 4 quarterbacks in the top 8 scenario insures one drops to 9. If they don’t fit, they still make good trade back bait.
I took my troubles down to Arlington
You know that Hokie that can stop the run
He’s got a pass rush, he’ll never ride the pine
Sellin’ little bottles of Draft Edmunds No. 9
I told him that I was a flop with picks
I told him that I once took Jack Nix
He looked at my team and he made a victory sign
He said “What you need is Draft Edmunds No. 9”
#80
All right…#80!!!
I think coaches and personnel guys have specific traits in what they prefer in a quarterback. The mock-u-verse might see the 3 or 4 quarterback’s as close to each other in value. Maybe correctly in a general sense. But it’s likely Hue Jackson has specific quarterback traits in mind. He’s looking for system fit+traits, not rankings. It seems like a big gamble choosing Barkley at 1.
Jackson traded for Carson Palmer, and it’s rumored he really liked Goff. Which of the quarterbacks in the rookie class most resemble Carson and Goff?
My new mid round draft crush is LB Genard Avery. Holy dooley, the kid is all over the field.
Yea, he’s an energizer bunny and a perfect insurance policy for Foster. I mentioned him as an additional prospect to add to Grant’s list of potential draft targets….
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/07/report-seahawks-will-release-richard-sherman-in-next-couple-of-days/
If the 49ers don’t get Johnson or Talib, would have to think they will make a play for Sherman.
Agreed, but one has to wonder if his injury will affect him going forward.
Reports say that he also had “cleanup” work done on the other Achilles as well. Seems very risky to me.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-free-agents-who-could-use-a-change-of-scenery
Mid what do you think about Ross Cockrell for depth?
I wouldn’t mind him signing for the right price.
Love the mock and trade scenario. I think Issiah Wynn is going to be a pro bowl guard who can also fill in at tackle (and center) if needed. Pick-up an extra 3rd and 4th rd pick in a pretty deep draft to, good stuff!
I do not want to see d-bag Sherman in a Niners uniform. Eff that guy.
Agreed, Gabriel.
Nope, don’t want him…..
I am not a fan of Sherman either, but the team may have no choice if they strikeout on Johnson and Talib.
I’d take Sherman no problem. You can’t let personal feelings interfere with business. If he’s released he immediately becomes one of the best options on the market and knows the defense we play. He’d be a great addition.
“he immediately becomes one of the best options”
Will turn 30 this month. Ruptured his right Achilles. Just had surgery on his left Achilles. Was already on the decline pre-injury. Whiny bitch that helped create a toxic locker room by hating on his QB and HC.
He is aging, lost a step, coming off surgery, and a cancer. He could easily influence a young locker room and cause a ripple effect. This would be a huge mistake to sign him.
The 49ers need to continue building through the draft. There are not many great options in free agency for players in the secondary. Id avoid Richard Sherman as much as possible.
Agreed.
Sherman will always be the “enemy” in my book. As far as I’m concerned, we don’t fraternize with the enemy!
After feasting on our own 50 yard line like a queen, I wouldn’t go out of my way to have any interaction whatsoever with Dick Charmin….
Personally, Id like to run him over!
He crossed the business line for me, and made it personal.
That’s on the NFL. They set it up.
Recovering from an Achilles has been done enough times now that I have no doubt Sherman will be fine. I also disagree that he was declining. He is still playing at a high level and certainly much better than anybody we have or could get in FA if Johnson can’t be signed.
I don’t care about the temper. That is part of what makes him great. He’s a vet who’s been on a SB team for a number of years. He’d be good for the Niners and his experience would be good in the locker room imo.
I disagree. Bow wasn’t the same. Kobe’s career basically ended, although he was much older.
Bow was still recovering from a terrible knee injury when he tore his Achilles. Coming back from two devastating injuries in succession is a whole different animal.
AP came back with one of the best seasons of his career after an Achilles tear. It’s not the same level of injury it used to be. Sherman is also not a CB who has relied purely on speed.
Is AP an outlier or the norm?
This is from 4/5/17. Before the injuries.
https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/05/nfl-richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks
“Sherman struggled with change-of-direction last year. When forced to swivel his hips and follow a receiver breaking out on a corner route or, especially, breaking in on a slant, he often allowed too much separation.”
“When age starts to impact an athlete, it’s often his balance that goes first. Balance is a big part of change-of-direction. But remember, Sherman also played with an undisclosed MCL injury in 2016.”
Hmm, that knee too.
Here’s what PFF had to say about Sherman in 2016:
Ike Taylor end of 2016 season CB rankings:
1) Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks (Last week’s ranking: 1)
Season stats in coverage: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against.
If that is a player in decline, sign me up.
He’s not the same player. He was better last yeay than he was in 2016. One step forward after two steps back.
MCL injury in 2016.
Achilles surgery in 2017.
Achilles surgery in 2018.
Is his body breaking down due to age, Adderall, and who knows what other kind of PEDs? I doubt he ever plays a full season again.
PED’s? Now you are just making things up. Don’t resort to that. Injuries are a part of football and I just provided you proof that he played very well in 2016 while playing through that knee injury and you yourself said he was better last year, so where is the decline exactly?
You doubt he will ever play a full season again? The guy had never missed a game in his entire career before tearing his Achilles. He plays through pain and still plays at a high level. I have zero doubt he’ll return and play well.
Adderall is a PED. I didn’t resort to it, Sherman did. It wouldn’t surprise if he’s on something now while trying to recover. He obviously doesn’t mind cheating.
The decline Is in his hips. How long will he be able to mask that as he ages and the injuries pile up.
Remember that athletes put more pressure on the other healthy Achilles that wasn’t injured. But both Achilles have been operated on. He’s an injury waiting to happen.
Sherman’s Adderall ban was overturned and he’s never tested positive for anything else before or since.
He’s going to be 30 not 50. His hips and joints will be fine.
You are reaching big time.
So Sherman has hip issues because he is old and Landry has chronic ankle issues because he hurt his ankle last season. You do seem hell bent on finding tenuous arguments not to sign players you simply don’t like.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/sports/football/adderall-a-drug-of-increased-focus-for-nfl-players.html
“and there is some suspicion that at least a few players may claim they took Adderall instead of admitting to steroid use, which carries a far greater stigma.”
Overturned? OK, but he admitted it. Why would he say he “accidentally drank it”?
Scooter,
You know I like Landry, just not at #9 for various reasons. I’ve never said Landry for sure has chronic ankle issues. I’ve suggested it could be the reason that he has some low projections.
Do you disagree about his hips?
Are you in no way concerned about his Achilles injuries?
Is he not aging?
Sure 30 isn’t 50, but he’s no spring chicken.
You have used his ankle injury as a reason to be concerned with drafting him. The only reason you would be concerned about the injury is if you think it will reoccur.
Talib is 32, and he would be a huge upgrade at CB for the 49ers. 30 years old does not mean Sherman is too old to be good still.
Yes, the achilles injury is obviously a concern. But there have also been many players come back well from such an injury. Assuming he is able to as well, he would be a massive upgrade for the 49ers.
“There have also been many players come back well from such an injury. Assuming he is able to as well…”
You can’t assume that.
How many corners in their 30s have come back from an Achilles tear?
You can’t assume that without a fall back plan.
Yeah, potentially. I’m not a doctor. But the teams do have doctors. Have you not noticed that I hadn’t mentioned his ankle until recently since he is still getting low grades?
I mean really, excuse me for using a players past injuries in the evaluation process of a prospect. Foster was under heavy scrutiny on here last year. The shoulder is important for a LB, just like the ankle is important for Landry. We can debate on how much weight to put on those concerns, but there’s nothing wrong with me bringing it up. I apologize for questioning your girlfriend (draft crush).
Talib isn’t coming off two Achilles injuries in the same year. Which you admit is a concern.
“There have also been many players come back well from such an injury. Assuming he is able to as well…”
“You can’t assume that.”
This guy gets it. +1 Grant.
I can’t think of a CB off hand, but Terrell Suggs suffered an Achilles tear around the same age Sherman is now and not only did he come back strong, he came back quickly. This is not the same kind of lasting injury it used to be.
Lots of pass rushers play into their 30s. Cornerbacks usually don’t, especially ones that rehabbed from Achilles surgery in their 30s.
“I apologize for questioning your girlfriend (draft crush).”
Good grief, grow up.
Can you name any top tier CBs that in their late 20s/ early 30s didn’t come back from an Achilles injury?
DeAngelo Hall came back, but he had to switch positions and become a safety. And then he never could stay healthy.
Can’t pin subsequent injuries on the Achilles injury.
And worth noting:
– He had already been moved to NCB before the injury, and discussion of moving him to safety had been around for a while.
– He also re-tore his Achilles while at home after the initial surgery.
If Sherman comes back from an Achilles surgery at 30 and plays corner at an acceptable level, he probably will be the first ever to do so at his position. I sincerely doubt the 49ers will roll the dice on him.
Hall had been talking about switching to Safety before rupturing his Achilles and he tore it a second time a month after surgery. Even after all that and his advanced age, he’s still playing. I think there is a pretty good chance Sherman can come back from this and still play at a high level, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Forget it Scooter beat me to it.
For evevy AP there’s a Jake Long.
https://healingfeet.com/sports/nfl-news-torn-achilles-tendon-prompts-early-retirement-for-vikings-jake-long
“Jake Long was the first overall draft pick in 2008. The left-tackle won the Pro Bowl four times with the Miami Dolphins before spending a season with the St. Louis Rams, the Atlanta Falcons, and finally the Minnesota Vikings. Despite his success, he decided to retire at age 31 after suffering an Achilles tear—the kiss of death for many NFL players.”
“Of the Achilles injuries, two-thirds will suffer from diminished performance and 36% never return to NFL football at all, according to Lower Extremity Review.”
Scooter,
You have been pretty defensive about Landry. So much so, that you just brought him up in a seperate conversation. Seb would be proud.
The conversation was very much along the same lines of argument you had been using recently against Landry. It wasn’t exactly a huge stretch to bring it up.
Your petty insults are just that, petty. You clearly don’t like it when people disagree with you. But no need for the insults. Likening my comments to Seb is just another in what is becoming a long line of childish jabs by someone throwing a bit of a tanty when people question their opinion.
Jake Long? Didn’t he have a laundry list of injuries during his career? No one is saying it’s a walk in the park to come back from an Achilles injury, but it’s not the career wrecker it was at one time. In recent years they’ve discovered new procedures that have been very successful in getting athletes back faster and pretty close to the level they were before.
You started this Scooter.
“You do seem hell bent on finding tenuous arguments not to sign players you simply don’t like.”
You said I don’t like Landry. That was false. How is saying that a player isn’t as good in an area due to age a tenuous argument?
“Your petty insults are just that, petty.”
Implying that my arguments are tenuous is petty and insulting IMO. Why haven’t I insulted rocket? Because we respect each others opinions even if we disagree.
Yes, Long had a lot of injuries. Sherman also had the knee issue. But yeah, good point. The second paragraph is telling. Two thirds will have diminished performance.
If you found that insulting then I apologise. But I really don’t think questioning someone’s argument as being tenuous is an insult.
Ok, I accept. And I apologize for my comments.
Cheers mate.
It’s a business, yes, but it’s a businesss that sells emotion as a commodity. Watching captain ickhead smear my favorite team’s uniform will diminish my experience as a customer. It’s not about personal feelings necessarily; it’s about providing a product that your customer base enjoys.
I respect your opinion Gabriel but I’d enjoy watching Sherman drive other teams nuts the way he has us over the years. I want players who will take the Niners to the next level and imo Sherman would be one of those guys.
Me too. Cowboys fans got over their dislike for Sanders and Owens fast enough. 49ers fans will do the same.
Rocket and Scooter, yeah I suppose. If he came over and balled out I guess I would get over it.
He’s just such a dbag. There’s a life-sized cardboard printout of him in a grocery store near my home. I want to effing kick it every single time.
Yea, I can tell you right now, I’m not getting over it no matter how far out his balls are.
I wanna see Dick Charmin slither away like Gollum.
Im with a lot of others, Barkley at one makes absolutely no sense.
If I’m the Browns I make a trade with the Giants. They have plenty of draft capital to swap the 4th pick for the 2nd pick.
This way you get Barkley and your choice of QB.
It also makes sense for the Giants because the Colts are not going to take a QB at #3. They could move back a couple spots and add another pick or two while still having their choice of QB.
So you think Luck is going to play next year? He hasn’t thrown a pass in months and has missed 25 games in the last three years. I wouldn’t write the Colts off on drafting a QB, unlikely yes, but you just never know with Luck’s injury.
I agree with you but I dont think the Colts are ready to move on from Luck yet. Will he be ready week one? Not sure but he is expected to be back sometime this season.
The Giants are clearly trying to make one last run with Eli. Assuming they take a QB with Barkley on the board is not a given. A Beckham and Barkley duo may be too good to pass up in a place like NY
The problem with this is you are assuming the Browns intend on drafting a QB.
Its a pretty safe assumption considering there will likely be 4 QBs taken in the top 6 picks.
If that many are projected to go that early it figures to be a pretty talented group.
I didnt see enough out of Kizer to believe he is the long term answer.
I think the Browns acquire AJ McCarron in FA but I dont think you put all your eggs in that basket either. I think they still take a QB and try to get a franchise guy for the future.
Kind of like the Bears did last year with Glennon and Trubisky.
Jbrack
I know it’s ludicrous, but what would be the fall-out if we (niners) took AJ McCarron in FA…?
That would completely depend on the size of the contract. I imagine if he signs with the Browns he will get 16-18 million a year but he would also be the expected starter.
If he were to sign with the 49ers he would obviously be signed to backup money. That would be 3-6 million a season maybe.
At that cost I wouldnt be up in arms about it if Shanahan thought he was a reliable backup that could help our team.
Look what Nick Foles did for Philly last year and he is making 5.5 mil per season.
It isn’t even close to a safe assumption. The Browns, Giants, Broncos, or Jets could sign a QB in free agency and forgo drafting a QB with their first round picks.
The Browns will sign a QB and it will be AJ McCarron like I said.
Do you just roll with AJ and say the QB position is fixed and no longer needs to be addressed?
Umm No, you dont!!!!
Grant, I’m just curious why you went with Wynn over Hernandez from UTEP? I think they will both play in the league for a long time, but Hernandez seems to be a nastier run blocker than Wynn. Plus, he’s bigger and just as mobile and athletic.
So 1st round RB prospect Derrius Guice sits down with a team for a Combine interview and the 1st question asked of him is whether he likes men; you know, Gay. WTH?
These Young’s fellows are trying to be on their best behavior, but I’d sure like it if one them would tell the coach it’s none of his business, and then blow the whistle on the coach and team publicly at the earliest opportunity to shame them.
D.Smith of the Union suggests that a team doing that should be banned from the Combine. I’d support a one year ban like that. It’s unethical, illegal and outrageous.
Supposedly it’s a ‘stress test’ to see how someone reacts. OK, so my reaction is to walk out of the interview and go public. How you like that?
And I won’t tell you who I voted for or what my religious beliefs are either.
If you are going to pay me millions of dollars to play a kids game you can ask me whatever the heck you want.
Id just laugh personally…
The police do the same thing when asking if you have any bombs or hand grenades . They are just looking for a specific reaction.
Whoever asked him that wasn’t looking for a reaction. They were on a fact finding mission to try and avoid the possibility of drafting a gay player. The question is offensive and completely unnecessary and the guy who asked it deserves to be called out on it.
They also asked him if his mom was a prostitute. I thought it was funny how that was left out.
I think they were obviously shopping for reactions.
Once again, illegal, unethical and outrageous
The size of a projected contract does not require one to waive their personal employment rights (and dignity). What’s the dollar cut-off for ceding rights? $1M/yr? $600K/yr?
It’s not about money
”It was pretty crazy . Some people are really trying to get in your head and test your reaction. … I go in one room, and a team will ask me do I like men, just to see my reaction. I go in another room, they’ll try to bring up one of my family members or something and tell me, ‘Hey, I heard your mom sells herself. How do you feel about that?’
This is from the horses mouth…
Its pretty obvious Juice isnt gay or that his mom is a prostitute.
People need to lighten up.
it ‘d be worthwhile to make list of the sorts of cr*p that people have had to put up with under this excuse:
Racism,
Sexism,
Religious bigotry,
Bullying,
…
….
…..
What makes this even worse, is that there is a memo sent to the teams every year by the NFL office outlining the types of questions they are not allowed to ask. Guess what questions are included?
It wasn’t left out. There are a number of articles citing that Guice said somebody told him they had heard his mom sells herself and how did he feel about that. Both questions are ridiculous and completely unnecessary. If these homophobes really want to get a reaction all they really need to do is tell the player how they really feel about him personally. That would get a great reaction.
I prefer the Columbo approach. I like them to be comfortable, and confident as I lead them down the primrose path, with seemingly innocuous questions, geared to end with an unscripted reaction before they even see it coming….
Sure but the main thing I want to find out is whether this kid has a history that could threaten his NFL career; not his sexual preference or how he reacts to someone calling his Mother a prostitute.
I’d have a dossier on every player I planned a meeting with, prepared by ex-CIA operatives and former FBI agents….
Th NFLPA should look into this sort of objectionable behavior. The solution, of course, is to call out the morons, both by team name and the specific people in the room. These morons think they can get away with whatever they want because they hold out hope of the chance for 22-year olds to make a lot of money. If they do something that violates specific rules, slap a substantial fine just like they would do for other transgressions.
This happened to Eli Apple in 2016. The perp was a coach with the Atlanta Falcons. According to the linked PFT article, the team, HC, and coach took ownership. Goodell announced that “The team has taken on training programs within the organization which I think are all very satisfactory. So I don’t see any further steps at the league level at this point.”
In my opinion, I think this was an appropriate response and is also the kind of thing you find in other organizations outside of sports. The NFL as a whole, though, should provide training to all teams since a simple reminder prior to the combine isn’t doing the trick. Repeat offenders need to be dealt with up to and including termination. If an investigation determines that this behavior is sanctioned by the FO of a team, then punishing the team as whole should be considered.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/08/nfl-question-to-derrius-guice-was-completely-inappropriate/
“Aww, it’s alright, lots of guys do it” is NOT a supporting argument.
NOT a justification.
The League took an adult approach with the Falcons, and sends reminders to all. Not working.
That’s not what I said, BT. Not sure where you got that from.
Not aimed at you at all Cubus, was meant to. continue a theme from above, but clumsily done by me and not worth ‘splaining now.
I’d support a one year ban like that. It’s unethical, illegal and outrageous.
Herein lies the problem with that; the team as a whole may be unaware that the question was asked, Do you punish the team still? A better solution instead of a ban for the whole team would be to ban the one who asks the question, and for the NFL to do an investigation into the matter to make sure it is limited to just that person.
I agree, Mid, unless the team has shown a pattern of this type of behavior, in which case the behavior is probably coming from the top down.
That’s where an investigation comes into play.
What we need is a special council!;>)
I’m not going to guess who asked the question, but here are the teams that met with Guice at the Combine according to walterfootball.
Buffalo
Pittsburgh
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/08/report-49ers-agree-to-3-year-extension-with-receiver-marquise-goodwin/
Nice.
Good-deal!
Good for the Niners and good for Goodwin!
Great move. I like this deal a lot more than I like the Garcon deal. That one is still a headscratcher.
Good deal for Goodwin. He earned it.
If the 49ers were then to sign Robinson that would make for a very expensive WR group.
True, but potentially only for a year as they can walk away from Garcon next year without a major cap hit if they choose.
rocket,
That makes sense.
Garcon’ physical playing style gives me concern. At this point, I’m not sure if even Garcon knows how he will play upon his return. Neck injuries have the potential to cause a variety of negative health effects once injured. I give him huge props for returning from the injury and hope he can play with the same physicality and confidence he’s had throughout his career.
That said, the org needs to plan ahead for the future at this position.
Awesome!
Goodwin’ dedication and work ethic is rare in today’s sports world.
I also believe that the Browns are going to do this, with that said, I don’t think the giants are going after a QB, they are going to go after Chubbs. The colts trading out is a great possibility and they don’t need a QB and have a lot of holes. As for the niners, I would hope we get more than that but, getting protection for Jimmy is a need, but don’t see it happening, I would project Landry because the niners are going to go after Norwell or Sitton (even if Norwell is believed to favor NY because of ties-money can talk a lot louder than ties).
Apparently Nelson is a once in a lifetime pick. So I guess guard would be the play at 9 if he fell to us. DL again if Chubb was there. Other then that I would not sweat those positions in the first round. At 9.
I actually think our guard play from Lakin Tomlinson improved as the year went on. Garnet might be an improvement too. Not sure how he fits in system. Also was he really all that great when he did play. I’m just saying Garnet has a lot to prove backing first round pick. Solomon Thomas and Armstead too.
Anyway I think we need to be aggressive this draft. Move back up back and up again as needed. The safe pick would be one of the 3 LBs in the first round.
True thy wift in free agency, but could still can try to sign Brandon Coleman RFA,wr, Saints.