Picking winners in AFC, NFC title games

New England Patriots running back Sony Michel heads for the goal line and his second touchdown during the first half of an NFL divisional playoff football game against the Los Angeles Chargers, Sunday, Jan. 13, 2019, in Foxborough, Mass. (AP Photo/Elise Amendola)

First, I want to pick the Patriots to beat the Chiefs this Sunday.

I’ll get to the Saints and Rams.

I certainly don’t want to bet against the experience of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, especially after last week when I picked them to lose to the Los Angeles Chargers, a tough team. The Patriots just emasculated them. Made them look like chumps and made me feel foolish.

I should have known not to pick against the Patriots at home. They’re 9-0 in Foxborough this season and haven’t lost a playoff game there since 2013. The Chargers had no chance.

The Chiefs are better than the Chargers.

The Chiefs and Patriots already played each other this season, and the Patriots won 43-40. But that game was in Foxborough. This weekend’s game will be in Kansas City, and the Patriots haven’t won a playoff game away from Gillette Stadium since 2007. Plus, they’re 3-5 on the road this season.

I want to pick the Patriots, but these numbers trouble me:

Click here to read the rest of my column.

This article has 436 Comments

  1. I have no idea who will win, but I want the Chiefs and Rams to face each other in the Super Bowl.

    How can the Pats win? Stay within two scores by halftime.
    How can the Rams win? Run to chew clock, limit Saints possessions. Create turnovers on defense.

  2. Stats mean dink once Tom Brady steps on the field, and Gronk still has his size and double team requirement. Pats scalp the Chiefs on their reservation. It’s elementary that the Saints will miss Watson, but I’m still picking them to leave the Rams in purgatory and go marching in to the Super Bowl….

  3. Grant, I don’t believe your “click here” has got a link attatched to it. Pretty sure it’s not on my end – there is no hyperlink code when I checked inspect element.

    As for my picks, I have the Pats, because lmao picking against Tom Brady, and I have the Saints, because Saints in the Superdome. Not gung ho on either but I am 7-1 so far this post season (picked the Colts over Chiefs, foolishly).

  4. Chiefs and Saints in the Super Bowl.

    1. Chiefs are better than the Chargers?? Didn’t the chargers just beat them @ KC?

    2. Interesting stat 1 via Evan Silva : The Patriots with Brady are 30-6 in games at or below 30 degrees, but 30 of those games were either at home or against the Bills or Jets. It is expected to be in the high 20s in KC tomorrow.

    3. Interesting stat 2 via Evan Silva : The Patriots with Brady are 28-10 in the playoffs, but 3-4 in road playoff games .

    4. I actually agree with the Cooper Kupp analysis. He was Goffs security blanket.

    5. Not to beat a dead horse, but I predicted KC would win the West and ultimately reach the Super Bowl in the famous August Press Democrat season prediction article. If that happens, I really feel like I should win something. More to come on this…

  5. Saints 37, Rams 23
    Patriots 31, Chiefs 19

    I’m speculating on the outcome, NOT reflecting what I wanna see.

  6. The Rams will beat the Saints, but it will be close. Rams will bludgeon the Saints on the ground to eat up the clock and keep the scoring down. I would have picked the Saints because Gurley is not 100%, but CJ Anderson has run wild.
    The Cowboys had such a good run defense, and still, the Rams ran rough shod over them. The Saints run defense is not as stout as the Cowboys. Also, other teams would pass to try and keep up with the Saints, so the Saints run defense was not challenged as much. Rams defense will stymie Brees, and Donald should have a good day on turf.
    Chiefs will win because Mahomes looks one way, while throwing in a different direction. He may even beat them left handed. Mahomes will be turned loose, and his mobility will avoid the pass rush and convert third downs. Reid will learn from the Chargers game, and Brady will get sacked. BB will have a hard time playing keep away, and Arrowhead will be on a warpath.
    3 out of 4 visiting teams won the first round. Last week, all of the home teams won. This week, I hope for a split.
    Rams, 28-27.
    Chiefs, 31-24.

  7. I’d like to see the Chiefs and the Rams win. But I am not going to bet against TB12 and Bellichick. No coach in the history of NFL has played situational defense better than Bellichick, and I think he will find a way to counter both Kelce and Hill just enough to get the win. These two will probably be jammed at the LoS much more than they have been this season. TB will be happy to dink and dunk for 5-6 yards at a time to pick up steady first downs and will be complemented by the Pats new power running game. Mahomes may see some post-snap changes in Pats alignment that will make him hold the ball just a little longer…
    In the other game. the Rams will live or die with their running game, and Talib will shadow Thomas around the field on D. But the crowd noise may be too loud for Goff to operate without mistakes.
    So it looks like a Superbowl of Pats vs Saints.

      1. I’m pretty confident that the Pats will step it up to another gear in the play-offs.
        BB & the Patriots are 10-4 in AFC Championship Games. Andy Reid is 1-4 Conference Championship games.
        By no means am I writing off the Chiefs and expecting another blow out Pats win like that against the Chargers. It’s going to be a chess match between the two coaching teams and I have feeling that TB12/McDaniel offense will have an edge over Sutton’s defense even if Bellichick’s D vs. Reid’s O match is a draw.

  8. There is always more than meets the eye. Fangio’s hiring of Scangarello may seem like just a nod to Fangio’s preference for Kyle’s offense. But Matt Barrows digs deep and we learned from his Athletic column that Scangs and Fangs share the same agent and play off-season golf in the Bay Area!

      1. It’s just an Italian thing. They also like to share Mama’s best pasta recipes. You want something deep? I hear Jimmy G really likes Scangarello’s best recipes.

  9. Just saw a video with Sean Payton, whooping it up and celebrating in the locker room, mirrored ball and lots of Haze.
    Guess he thinks he better celebrate now, because his team may not want to party after the next game…… ;p

          1. Wren, I have fully admitted when I have been wrong, just like when I crow when right.
            In this instance, SP may be counting his chickens before they hatch. Niners never were known for celebrating beforehand. They were all business, focusing on the task ahead. They celebrated afterwards.
            I missed on the Ravens and Bears, but was happy when both Philly and Dallas lost.
            Let us do a gentleman’s bet. If you or I are wrong, we will have to acknowledge the other person’s football acumen. I think McVay has prepared his team well, and they are peaking at the right time.

            1. Let us do a gentleman’s bet. If you or I are wrong, we will have to acknowledge the other person’s football acumen. I think McVay has prepared his team well, and they are peaking at the right time.

              Sounds like a deal to me, Sebbie.

  10. Mark Fields, Clemson, 5-11. 180
    When the Senior Bowl was looking to add a cornerback this week, the 49ers were consulted. This is the guy they wanted to be added to the group.

  11. I think Brady gets the quick passing game going and they use their speed out on the edge with Dorsett and Patterson. They use Sony late in the game when KC is tired. I think NE defense gives up a lot of yards but holds right up in the red zone.

    One defensive turnover in the red zone from Mahomes trying to much to make a play. One missed FG by Butler.

    Saints over Rams Goff unable to make critical plays down the stretch.

  12. I’m still rolling with my Super Bowl pick at halftime of the season
    Chiefs beat NE soundly.
    Not that impressed with NE win last week.
    They looked way faster and sharp than San Diego did. And I’m calling them San Diego because the San Diego Chargers of old showed up. A little later in the season as usual but there they were. Outcoached, out smarted and our worked.
    Young Charger coach should learn a lesson after that game. Never go full zone all day VS Brady.
    Chiefs haven’t missed a beat offensively and seem to be getting nastier in defense at the right time.
    Loudest stadium in the world with that offense and the defense peaking???
    Not even old Andy can choke this one away.
    Chiefs 38 Pats 20 and maybe a late meaningless TD to lose by 11.

    The better and closer game will be in the BIG Easy. Saints Offense has been struggling a little since the Dallas game. And it seems they’re slowly getting it back to top notch. They were clicking late in the Philly game last week.
    LA has basically one threat.. Gurly OK two last week but I don’t see a repeat of that happening again.
    The rams defense is overrated. If they get pressure up the middle on Brees I think Payton is smart enough to use misdirection plays and roll Brees out as much as it takes.
    It seemed Dallas did that very little and was successful at it when they did. For some reason they stopped on passing downs and was trying to force the run a little to much and kept D Prescott in the pocket to often.
    Saints defense will be the stars again in this game but I think NO offense will look better and help them out. Because they’re not going to stop the rams like they did to Dallas.
    I’d pick LA if it were in LA. But Dem dome boys are very hard to beat down there. In the bayou.
    I got the Saints winning

    To secure what will probably be one of the most exciting, high flying, high scoring, wheeling and dealin, wife stealin, limo ridin son of a gun Superbowls we’ve ever seen.
    Don’t know who will win, but I’m betting the score will be something like 48-45. 😛😛

  13. The only question in the Cheifs/Pats match up is whether or not the Chiefs defense is going to show up. If so then it’s a no-brainer, Chief’s. If the defense struggles it’ll be another close shoot out.

    Chiefs 38-36.

    I think the Saints win easy. 37-17.

    1. C4C

      I agree that the Saints seat the Rams…perhaps not as easily as you seem to think…Saints 35- Rams 30

      I see the AFC to be a battle of the coaches …. Belichek 27- Reid 24

  14. Observing the East- West game, I have a few assessments and comments.
    The NFL is dying, with such sparse attendance to that game. They should have given away 20 tickets to each player, and given 1000 tickets to every nearby college and 200 tickets to every nearby High school. They must have known beforehand, how few tickets were sold.
    I thought the coaching was OK, and they did well, for such little time to prepare.
    Players I liked were-
    Easton Stick- Looked sharp.
    Jordan Ta’amu- Had nice touch.
    AJ Cole – Had a 50 yard return and kept his balance.
    Terry Godwin- Was the go to receiver.
    Jesper Horsted- Was productive in the practices and during the game.
    Shawn Poindexter- I liked his length and catching ability. Caught a TD.
    Ron’Quavion Tarver- Looked good in practice, so they say, and caught 5 passes.
    Lamont Gaillard- Was stout, and had his hands full with Mack.
    Darrin Hall- Had some hard nosed runs.
    Malik Carney- Looked quick.
    Mathieu Betts – Had his name called several times.
    Joel Van Pelt- Small Canadian College, but played well with the big boys.
    Daylon Mack- Was disruptive.
    Sione Takitaki- Supposedly had good practices, but did not play. I like him for his name alone. May be a replacement for Foster.
    BJ Blunt- Played like his name. Good tackler.
    Lukas Denis- Thought he had a good nose for the ball.
    Tyree Kinnel- Good athlete and recovered a fumble.
    Generally speaking, the offenses struggled for both teams, because the DEs were dominating the O Tackles. Saw some good plays from both sides. East moved the ball, but those turnovers killed them. Did not recognize most of the rosters, so the players should be targeted in the later rounds. These are just the players who impressed me, but there could be others who might improve their draft status during the Combine.

    1. Who could hang a name on you.

      Count the headlights on the highway.

      Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies.

      Out in the west Texas town of El Paso.


    2. SEB

      Just when you thought it was safe to go back on the field….another ‘DUCK’ shows up and throws his wrench into the mix, and upsets the whole apple-cart…

      What East-West Shrine game were you watching that you missed seeing U of Oregon OLB/DE Justin Hollins run up the score with 10 unassisted tackles, 2 sacks, and constantly in the QB’s face, and walked off with the DMVP…?

      Just so the ‘DUCK’s wouldn’t be piggish, they only sent Hollins to the Shrine game….Next Saturday, they are going to send LB/DE Jalen Jelks to mess up the favorites at the Senior Bowl….Pay attention…it’ll be worth it….

      1. My bad. I did mention the DEs were abusing the Tackles, and Hollins did have a good day.
        In fact, he was dominant. Good call.

        1. SEB

          My point was, is, and will continue to be, that these two players are right up the Road in Eugene, OR…and both are in positions that are crucial to this years 49er draft…Jelks at DE, and Hollins at OLB. Yes, this is going to be a ‘bonus’ draft year for the niners…IF THEY DON’T SCREW IT UP with alumnis bias and other such dumb moves…Matt Maiocco has been giving some pretty intensive reviews on OLine, Dbacks, CBs, and I anticipate…LBs….Let’s look some of these guys over….

          1. Yep, they may perfect later round picks, because I want multiple pass rushers picked, if possible.
            That is why I want to trade back, so they have more than 6 picks.

  15. Chiefs are better than the Pats and the Pats have played poorly on the road this season. This really should be double digit win for the Chiefs but it won’t happen that way. Andy Reid coached teams choke in the playoffs and Bill Belichick is Bill Belichick. Pats win by 1 point on a final drive by Brady that results in a 1 point win by field goal as time expires.

    Saints beat Rams. Cowboys defensive scheme against the Rams was atrocious. Dennis Allen is an excellent DC so the Rams will have a much more difficult time in this game. Saints offense isn’t firing on all cylinders right now but the Rams defense is terrible against the run and their big name free agents DB’s haven’t been playing well either. The NFL is desperate to build a fanbase in LA so I expect the Rams to get every possible call in this game. Marcus Peters will get away with mugging the Saints WRs on every play and their will be phantom offensive and defensive holding calls on the Saints. That still won’t be enough. Saints win and the McVay can’t win in the playoffs discussions will begin.

    1. I expect the Rams to get every possible call in this game.

      Wow. You are right about that Hou. Two blatant PIs not called against LA

      1. Yeah but I wasn’t right about the outcome. I thought the Saints would overcome the coordinated officiating in favor of the Rams. BUT the Saints let it come down to 1 play and allowed the officials to decide the winner.

  16. Taking the Chiefs and Saints. Pats are bad on the road and Chiefs will prevail. Saints will win , don’t have a lot of confidence on Goff, Rams defense will need to play insane for any chance.

  17. Bellichick will look to take away Hill and Kelce, so Mahomes should look to roll out and get the ball to Williams underneath and scramble for chunk yards. If KC’s D plays as they did last week, they win- I would look to put pressure on Brady and crowd the box a bit.
    Chiefs win 27-20
    My fun at the Rams game was telling their fans their D was weak and wouldn’t get them to the Super Bowl…… let’s see if it happens. I would have Kamara touch the ball 25-30 times and challenge the secondary with speed as Talib and Peters will both draw flags…….. I think Goff has a good game and believe it comes down to the last minute- and whoever has the ball last.
    Saints, 31-27.

    My $.02

    I just hope the 49ers and playoffs can be a legitimate discussion again………..

  18. Championship weekend!! Yes!!
    My biggest worry at this point is that I might pick the same winners as Coach/GM GC and with his record (of course he picks with no spread involved) it’s rather bothersome. My undefeated record without a spread could be in jeopardy. Going into today I am 7-1 vs the spread in the playoffs and 4-4 vs the O/U’s. The good news is I’m in the black and will remain there regardless of today’s outcomes. The mission now is to grow the black, contrary to Seb’s mission, which is to grow the green, and I’m not talking money! ;-} Let’s win some money!!

    NFC Championship
    LAR +3 at NO O/U(57)
    As it should be, a tough game to pick. Weather not a factor. The Rams offensively are better in every important category. Defensively the Rams have a slightly better pass defense and the Saints have a much better run defense. The teams have split there last two meetings and the Rams have won 3 of the last 5 meetings dating back to 2011. I think the Saints will do an adequate job of stopping the Rams run game enough to force Goff to beat them. Tough chore in NO. I have to go with experience in this one. The Rams are on the cusp of being great, but NO is already there.
    I’m taking the Saints -3 and the over (57)
    NO 38 LAR 34

    AFC Championship
    NE +3 vs KC O/U(57)
    Another difficult one. That makes it fun. Weather cloudy and cold as, well, you know! Here we have Andy Reid’s failure to win the big one vs New England’s lousy road playoff record. Nevertheless, no one has made a living betting against Tom Brady. I certainly haven’t. He’s made me lot’s of money over the years. NE is only 3-5 on the road this year, while KC is 7-1 at home. KC has this dynamic offense, bettering NE in every category accept rushing yards. The big difference is defense. Not only is NE’s better, but Belichick’s defenses have always seemed to peak at the right time, in the playoffs. The teams have split the last two meetings, and NE has won 3 of the last 5. I’d love to see Andy finally make it to a SB, and as an early proponent of Patrick Mahomes (when few were around here), it would be awesome to see them go. However, I just can’t lend myself to betting against the Patriots. My hearts says Chiefs, my brain says Patriots.
    I’m taking NE +3 and the over (57)
    NE 31 KC 27

    It’s going to be the “NEW BOWL” Super Bowl. It will be my NE patriots vs Coach/GM GC’s NO Saints. It’s gonna be great!

    Enjoy the games folks!!

    1. I’ve got the Saints and Pats as well ATS but I have the Under in both games. Saints offense has been off a little bit and the defenses for the Pats & Chiefs have been playing a little better lately. Officiating will play a big role in both results. If Refs throw fewer defensive holding calls in the playoffs than they did in the regular season then that could result in lower point totals.

    2. Juan, take heart. Hope you finally get to install that kegertor, but I just cannot root for the Pats. BB road record is not scintillating, so I hope the Chiefs go on the warpath and scalp Brady.

  19. Please not another Super Bowl with the Pats playing.
    At home KC should win, but can BB design a defense to slow down the Chiefs is the key question. If the Pats can keep it close they will win.
    I hope the Chiefs can take it 34-20.

    Saints should win at home. Turnovers and sacks will be the key. The team with the most sacks and less turnovers will win.
    Saints 27-20.

    Saints-Chiefs Super Bowl would be cool. Pats-Rams would be terrible; I would hope for both teams to lose.

  20. Pats seemed to know what the Chargers were going to run ahead of time. Once the Chargers figured that out, they were less predictable in the second half.
    Reid, with the RPO, will be inherently unpredictable, and the Pats will be exposed. The Pats defense just does not have enough speed to match the Chiefs, and they will have to defend from side line to side line, and goal line to goal line. Mahomes will not crumble like Mcnabb, and he is way better than AS. That is why they shipped AS out of town. Arrowhead will be so loud, Brady will have to use hand signals.
    Reid finally has a team that is solid in all phases, and Mahomes will out duel Brady. Reid is a disciple of Bill Walsh, and will have his team well prepared, while Brady and Gronk will show their age. ‘I want you cowboys to know something, there’s a new Sheriff in town.’
    Rams may not need to benefit from the officiating, and Brees will have a sympathetic home crowd rooting for him for a last hurrah. CJ Anderson and the Ram O line will bludgeon the Saints, then Gurley will break a long run for a one-two punch. They say defense wins championships, but they also say that the game is won in the trenches. The Ram O line destroyed Dallas, so I expect a repeat performance.
    Dennis Allen is a fine DC, but Wade Phillips has won a SB as a DC. Who is better than Aaron Donald? McVay will not be fooled by any trick plays by Payton, and may pull a rabbit out of his hat, on his own.

    1. In a tree by the brook, there’s a songbird who sings.

      We got to move these refrigerators, we got to move these color TVs.

      It doesn’t matter where you’ve been, as long as it was deep, yeah

      1. Since Baalke is long gone, your haunting of my posts seems to be curiously intriguing.
        Then I remembered excoriating Paraag, and calling for him to be banned from the draft war room.
        Guess like a lap dog, he has sicced you on me, so I will now include Paraag in my stench comments.
        I have no doubt that Paraag was the one who facilitated the Foster trade up. He was the guy on the phone, and his sheer desperation to make a deal allowed the Seahawks to take advantage of the Niners. Generally, it is not wise to deal with an opponent, and with that 4th round pick, the Seahawks selected Tedrick Thompson, who is now the starting FS . Saints also dodged a bullet, because Foster hung up on them, and did not even have the courtesy to tell them that the Niners had pulled off a trade for him. Foster did not implode on the Saints, and now, they are in the NFCC Game.
        I hope JL shows leadership and takes away the phone from Paraag, because he makes bad deals. JL should have Martin Mayhew, a former GM, talk with the other GMs. They will respect Mayhew, and it will be harder to pull the wool over his eyes, and trick him into making poor deals. Paraag was so desperate to look like a deal maker, he let the Seahawks trade back, and still get the player they coveted.
        Yes, the stench of Baalke is dissipating, but Paraag, his buddy, still remains, and the stench will never go away while Paraag is still around.

  21. The Patriots have reached the stage of their existence where they receive the benefit of the doubt no matter how much the evidence says otherwise. The Pats haven’t been a good road team this season and have not been a good playoff team on the road in the Belichick/Brady era. They have lost the last 4 playoff games they’ve played on the road and go into one of the hardest places to play a road game in against a team that has lost one game at home all season. The KC defense plays much better at home and the weather won’t be a factor as was feared earlier in the week. Everything favors KC in this game with the exception of the God like status of the two B’s. Chiefs will win this game.

    The Saints are favored over the Rams and the focus has been on how bad the Rams rush defense is and their inability to stop Thomas the first time around, but the Rams held Dallas to 2.3 ypc last week and have Talib back who missed the first game against the Saints. The Rams will be tougher against the run and pass this time around with Talib lining up against Thomas in man with some help over the top forcing Brees to look elsewhere which will be tough because the Saints don’t have any other receiving options that can make up for his production with their second best receiver being Kamura out of the backfield. Offensively the Rams are as balanced as any team left in the tournament and have taken their running game to another level the past month. The Saints are a great run defense, but they will not shut down the Rams running game completely which will open up the play action opportunities they love to exploit so often. The overall stats favor the Saints in this game, but looking at how the two teams are playing right now I like the Rams in this game setting up a rematch of one of the most entertaining games we’ve seen in years.

  22. Rams /Chiefs. Rams win the SB, which will lead the Niners to beat the Rams twice next year establishing the Niners new identity.

  23. The kegerator is already on the way Seb! Done deal, so I can just kick back and relax today! I also would love to see Andy get there. He deserves it! He’s been a damn good coach for years and he’s off the Walsh tree. However, Tom is a Bay Area product, and played in the WCAL (Serra), my High School league (Archbishop Riordan) so I’ve always had a special pride in that respect. Honestly these games are a crap shoot gambling wise. Both games can go either way. You have to be more lucky than good to win money today! We will see! Nothing anybody has stated here today is out of line. All have good arguments! Best of luck!

  24. Your looking good so far Houston with the under. If I lose the O/U’s today I’m going to start pulling a “Costanza” and do the “Opposite” of every instinct I’ve ever had concerning over/unders! ;p

  25. Yup, left arm around the WR but no call. Can almost rip the helmet off and no call Clock down to 00, and no call. Offensive PI?OOOkaaayyyy.

    1. By not making that obvious pi call against the Rams, the refs are trying to determine the outcome of the game. Make the obviously correct call there and Saints win right there.

    2. That PI was committed by the player and it was as blatant as it could possibly have been. How can you interfere with the pass more that that?
      That no-call was clearly concerted, as all of the refs saw it and freely chose to ignore it. The refs did this late in the 4th Qtr. It was no accident. It IS about revenue i.e. New Orleans vs Los Angeles.

      The NFL is dying, as attendance is down now and trending that way. All they need to do is look in the mirror as to who is the cause of it.
      The Goodell Sr. Mgmt of the NFL disgusts me. Without exaggeration, they are no better than Mafia Dons or Career Politicians.

    1. It was the most obvious pi call of the game but protecting the brand and the product made the no call a great call.
      If they make ot it it is a superb financial decision from the league POV. Let advertisers get a few more segments in.

    2. Of course they do 42. I told everyone I knew coming into this game that I had a hunch that, if this game was close late, the referees ( as an extension of the league) would probably find a way to be the deciding factor, getting a Southern California team to the Super Bowl, and I was rooting for the Rams.

      Therefore, I refused to bet against the Rams, even though I figured taking the home team would be the smart money today, under normal circumstances.

      Refs miss calls, I get that. But never have I seen such a blatant call completely missed, at such a pivotal time in the game. Think about what it takes for every official on the field to miss such a blatantly obvious call like that. A blind man would know that that was an illegal play on the defense. It’s just not credible to chalk that up to human error.

      And we should know by now that it’s hard to imagine any other reason why the league has pushed back so hard on allowing teams to challenge a call like that in the final 4 minutes of the game.

  26. By not making the call the league is letting the players play. The noncall brings back the human element which is easily explained away rather than allowing a call end a game in a championship game.
    The league doesn’t want referees determining the outcome when a no call just extends the game and allows the best play to end the game. It was a tied game at the no call.
    The no call made for a more entertaining championship and more revenue while giving all the fans something to talk about. Now Monday morning regardless of the outcome the league will be talked about.

  27. On the int it was offensive pi no flag. The defender has a right to the ball and was making a play on it while the receiver collided with him. Obvious pi. No flag. No upheavel by the board here.

      1. Seb I am referring to the no call 2.0 when Brees was hit and threw the game winning INT. That again in my opinion was an easy offensive PI call.

  28. Well, everyone else had predicted the Saints, so I will not rub it in too bad. Missed the exact score by 6 points.
    Ren, I await your acclamation.

          1. Just perused the comments and was mistaken. Rocket also predicted a Rams win. Everyone else on this site went for the Saints.

    1. The players determined the outcome. Every coach will tell you a game is not lost on a single play. Had the Saints been more productive after going up 13 early instead of settling for 10 points in 3 quarters this wouldn’t have been at the mercy of a ref in my opinion.
      I agree it was PI but as a fan of neither team I think the entertainment value for not throwing the flag was great. Just my opinion.

  29. Sue in accounting disagrees. Are you going to stop watching because no flag was thrown?

    Here is what will happen:
    The replay of that play will be loaded with advertisements. Clicks will be up. Viewership will not drop off.

    They might even hire Mary to help Sue count the additional revenue.

    Add that to the additional 12 minutes of air time and additional commercial revenue and I am sure the NFL is financially ok with the no call.

      1. My apologies. That wasn’t my intention. My comment should have been an opinion based solely on the extended entertainment value.
        The refs did miss the call. You’re correct.

    1. Thank goodness we have Joan in accounting. She will say that even a blind man could have made that call.
      The Ram defender impeded his path to the ball, and even hit him before the ball got there. To top it off, the DB did not turn around and make a play on the ball.

  30. I don’t think the PI decided the game. That’s an excuse. Excuses are for losers. Rams worthy winners, Saints were not good enough. Game is not won or lost on one play.

    1. Houston disagrees. Saints, if the call had been made, could have miked the clock down to 4 seconds, then kicked the game winner.
      While I am happy the Rams won, I could totally understand the frustrations that blatant PI engendered.

      1. Personally, and this is in response to 49reasons too, I don’t put much stock in bad calls. They happen. There are too many things that occur in a ball game over 4 quarters for it to all be down to one play. Saints fans can complain, but even the team will know that they were not good enough to get the win today.

        1. Understand this POV. BUT, rewatch that game. Watch the non offensive holding calls against the Rams in the 1st and early 2nd quarters. Then watch the series where the Rams punt from their end zone. Saints have great field position. First play is a a holding call against the Saints on a play 1000X less egregious than what the Rams were doing. Killed the Saints drive. Those are the kinds of things that make me wonder if the NFL is rigged.

          1. Houston-

            The NFL IS rigged! And the determining factor is revenues. We can thank Goodell and his lawyers for that. Like a politician, they are counting on us to watch this thoroughly corrupted product and continue watching, going to the games, etc.

            Nothing is going to be done as long as their revenues keep coming in. This is off topic, but you need look no further than the Yorks to see that truth.

          2. Oh no doubt. I just think that teams can’t look at bad calls and say that the game was wholly lost there. After all, if it is rigged, you have to wonder if the other team is in on it too. Maybe they themselves benefitted from said rigging.

    2. OH yes, the missed PI was definitely the difference. Give the Saints 1st and goal at the 6, with a chance to milk the clock down to 20 seconds, and then kick a field goal. Sure, the Saints could have missed what is essentially shorter than an extra point, but what are the odds of that, considering it’s indoors, without any weather conditions factoring in?

      I’d say the Saints win that game 97% of the time if the refs simply make what should have been one of the most obvious penalty calls you will ever see.

      Every else in the world saw it except the refs?

      1. This wasn’t one of those borderline calls. Are we really to believe that everyone else watching around the world saw the penalty, except for all of the highly trained NFL officials who were actually on the field?


    3. Hey Renas—

      “Game is not won or lost on one play???????????????

      Your just trying to stir sh-t up, right? The original “game of inches”? And one big play, or refs interjecting themselves at critical times, has no bearing on these games?

      I can assure you, Sebs want’s what your smoking!

      1. Never said it had no bearing. Just that there is more to a win or a loss than one play. I personally believe almost every ref in the NFL should be fired and replaced because all of them have displayed staggering incompetence, so I’m hardly defending them here. Just that, if it isn’t scripted, then the Saints had other opportunities to win the game, and failed to do so.

  31. Truth: If that missed call had cost the 49ers their ticket to the SuperBowl there wouldn’t be any “glad the refs didn’t decide the game” talk. People would be losing their god damn minds.

      1. Actually, I dont thing this was a meaningless game. This was such an obvious and concerted “no-call” by all of the refs, how can one not come to the conclusion they threw the game?

        It’s become a very corrupted product since Goodell got a hold of it. It smells, in the same way an $8.00 small bottle of water at a 9ers game smells.

      2. “Meaningless” as to the sanity of the Niners fan base. If I were a Saints fan, I’d be burning down Bourbon Street about now. But who knows, we may be on the long or short end of those big game determing bad/no calls ourselves before we know it.

        1. Im no paragon of virtue, but if the 9ers won an NFC Championship because of a call like that by the refs, called late in the 4th Qtr,, I would be disgusted, no drama intended.

          And Ribs, Im not inferring you wouldn’t feel the same way.

          The word is often overused, but the word for this game and how it was purposely thrown by the league is “Disgusting”-like all things overtly corrupt.

    1. No doubt about that Coffee.
      I just watched a video of the no – call, and there is absolutely no reason the refs did not throw a flag on that play.

  32. That is a PI call and should have been call but somehow I do not feel bad for the Saints since that BS Brooks call. I know that was long time ago.

    1. The very first thing that popped into my head after today’s no call was the Brooks roughness call. Cost us a bye and home field advantage.

      Turned out to be one of the most physical post seasons I can remember vs Carolina, Green Bay and SeAdderal.

  33. Well, look for the refs to hose the Pats. The league would concuss their last 10 mvps if they could get a SB replay of that rams chiefs night game.

  34. I find it ironic that folks say “I’m glad the refs didn’t decide the game when in fact they did”! That was unquestionably a PI. The ref was right there. Good for Goff though, another local kid (Marin Catholic)(Cal). Good for him. Good argument for extending the instant replay. Why wouldn’t they? If that was reviewed it would have been reversed, and NO would have been able to run the clock down to a few seconds for a last second field goal. Any argument?

  35. Bleacher Report is asking the question: Was this the worst blown call in league history?


    I say yes, IF you believe it was actually a blown call, and not a game fixing call. And after watching the NFL fix the Niners / Seahawks NFC Championship game in Seattle, among others, I have no doubt that the NFL is complicit.

    1. To paraphrase a bleacher report twitter reply, with the quality of officiating, how could anyone tell if a corrupt fix was in play?

    2. I imagine it will be- and astonishingly, happened pretty close to the official w a perfect viiw. Sorry Matt, that HAS TO BE called…… Saints would be in the Super Bowl.

      Brady fumble was bad, but it was the correct ruling per the idiotic, “Tuck Rule”.

      NE likes the A gap match up……….

    3. 49,
      The NFL is the new WWE – All-Scripted.

      Ravens vs 49ers Superbowl was scripted.
      From first half blow-out to a 30 minute power outage. Second half kickoff TD return had Ravens players holding inches away from refs and no calls.
      I could go on but what the heck 😏

      1. AES-

        I believe you are correct. The ref saw it with a birds eye view, and chose to not call it. How can one come to any other conclusion? Goodell turned this into the WWE-outcomes to be determined by revenues.

        The in-your-face greed of the league office smells like fresh dog sh-t.

  36. The fact that the call led to a team probably being denied a SB berth will lead it to being “infamous” at the least. How would you feel if that had been the Niners on the receiving end of that non call?

    1. “Sean Payton tells reporters that he just got off phone with league office, which admitted refs “blew the call.” Said it was not only pass interference, it was also helmet-to-helmet. Yikes.”

      Saints Interview

    2. Perhaps we should doxx the NFL refs that rigged the Saints v Rams game with the same fervor CNN is trying to doxx the Covington Catholic kids. The non- call against the Rams literally decided who is playing in the Super Bowl this year. The NFL is rigged. What a freaking joke.

      1. Doxxing names to push a political agenda? And minors at that? Outrageous. Houston you’re right – what kind of scurrilous organization would stoop to such disgusting and dangerous breaches of privacy?

        And each year, students join other Catholic high schools in the area who routinely send busloads of students to the March for Life in Washington, often canceling class so that students can go.

        Historically, ahead of the march, the Diocese of Covington publicly prints the name of every Catholic who opposes abortion rights in a multiple-page ad for The Cincinnati Enquirer, listed by parish or school, and includes the names of minors.



  37. I don’t ever want to hear doubters say this league isn’t rigged. That’s not a “blown call” that is a rig job. Flat out!

  38. It’s ok Seb. Like I said, the kegerator is a done deal. Even if I go 0-4 today I’ll still end up 7-3 vs the spread and 4-6 against the O/U. 11 for 20. The season account surplus is very black!! Even the boss gets a good share! All is good. I’ll be hooking up Cooperage and Henhouse kegs for the SB! ;p

      1. Luffa boy? Wtf, Houston? Jack may be a lot of things, but I highly doubt he is anything like Bill O’Reilly.

        If you are going to resort to trumpian name calling, you really should come up with something else.

    1. Hah! Jack, Trent can’t get to the second level to make his blocks. He’s a great OT in the right system, no question, just a piss poor scheme fit. And yes dude, that’s a real thing. Honestly, I can’t believe I even have to explain this to someone who claims he has football experience like you do. It’s kinda embarrassing man!

      Anyone who understands the sport, understands this. Now, if you are going to draft a replacement and trade a player, you best make sure the guy you draft is at least as good if not better. And yes, in the 49ers current scheme, McGlinchey was far superior as an all around OT, than Brown, and it wasn’t even very close. Brown was a liability in the run game and the numbers bare that out. That’s a fact Jack!

      If Brown wasn’t soon to become a FA, the 49ers certainly would have got more for him in return, but they weren’t going to trade him to a NFC team, and they owed Bill a little scratch back, so why not the Pats?

      And yes Jack, if you don’t think scheme fit is a real thing, then you obviously don’t know NFL football and should probably stick with high school, because you are embarrassing yourself!

      BTW, I am happy for him as well. No hard feelings for the big boy!

      1. « Trent can’t get to the second level to make his blocks. »

        That’s false. Stop doing the Birdbox challenge while games are on.

        1. Can somebody please explain to Jack the fundamental differences between the 49ers’ run blocking scheme and the Patriots’ run blocking scheme?

          I’m sorry but, honestly, this is amateuristic stuff, and well below my pay grade.

          I feel bad for a guy who claims to follow a team, yet has to rely on arbitrary stats, rather than in-game observation. I’m a little uncomfortable because I feel embarrassed for this guy!

          1. And why do I really need to point to a David Lombardi tweet to highlight just how silly this conversation even is right now?

            DAVID LOMBARDI: Anyway, re: this whole Trent Brown thing. Not possible to make a final evaluation on this until:

            – We see how much Brown makes on this contract (it wasn’t a 2018 move for 49ers)
            – How MM develops as a pass-blocker
            – How Tarvarius Moore develops
            – How 49ers use extra $$

            There is a real question as to whether Brown even resigns with the Patriots this offseason. If he doesn’t, it certainly changes the entire equation! As do these other factors David pointed out.

            Perhaps this ESPN article will also enlighten you Jack.


            1. Through 16 weeks, McGlinchey has been everything the 49ers expected as a run-blocker and has improved each week in pass protection. Pro Football Focus rates McGlinchey as the NFL’s best rookie offensive lineman, even outpacing Indianapolis Colts guard Quenton Nelson, his former Notre Dame teammate and a 2018 Pro Bowler. A good chunk of that rating comes as a result of McGlinchey’s work in the run game, where he has been an ideal fit in coach Kyle Shanahan’s outside zone-heavy scheme.


              1. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-mike-mcglinchey-is-leading-one-of-the-nfls-top-run-blocking-offensive-lines&utm_source=cj&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=cjaff&cjevent=8e07658a1db311e982cf001a0a1c0e0d

                And please don’t give me that lazy “PFF doesn’t mean squat” reply. If your going to debunk PFF, at least come back with some sort of qualified evaluation metric. Mike McGlinchey is far superior to Trent Brown, in Kyle’s scheme. That’s not debatable among football experts!

                For context, Morris and Breida rank 43rd and 35th, respectively, out of 51 running backs in elusive rating, a metric that measures a runner’s success beyond the help he gets from blockers. And yet, Breida is top-10 in yards, yards per carry and breakaway percentage. That’s not to discredit him as a runner; rather, it highlights just how important an offensive line is to a running back’s success.

      2. 2018 sacks allowed

        Mike McGlinchey 8.5 (16 games)

        Trent Brown 3.5 (18 games and counting)

        In 44 starts Brown has given up a total of 9 sacks. The extra .2 yards per carry doesn’t add up to all of the yards and potential yards lost by the sacks given up.

        1. In fairness, Garoppolo, Mullens and Beathard aren’t exactly the same tier of QB as Brady, especially when it comes to smarts and avoiding sacks.

          1. How are Gabbert/Kaepernick/Hoyer/Beathard/Garoppolo in comparison, because that’s who Brown was blocking for in his first 26 starts and he gave up a total of 5.5.

            1. Because the rest of the O-line collapsed almost immediately, especially the interior. As I said, I agree with you, but I don’t think sacks are the right metric here. He’s just better than McGlinchey, no two ways about it.

      1. Brady has been to the Super Bowl more than every franchise other than the Patriots. What we’re watching, especially with the salary cap, is the most dominant franchise in the history of the NFL.

        1. Yeah no doubt about it. To accomplish what the Patriots have in this era is unmatched in professional sports imo. The system is set up to stop the building of dynasties and yet here they are year after year. Truly amazing.

  39. When will people ever learn. Never, EVER, bet against Tom Brady. To think some Niners fans said Jimmy G was better now lmao.

    8-2 on my postseason picks. Not bad, I guess. I have the Pats winning the Superbowl.

    I agree with Jack RE Trent Brown. I don’t think McGlinchey or Staley are better tackles. Certainly not as of right now.

    1. Guess the Niners should learn not to help BB and the Pats possibly win another SB. Brown is a big reason why Brady has done so well.

      1. Brownie will face stiffer competition in the SB.
        If he can hold off the likes of Suh, Donald, and Brockers he will deserve all the accolades he receives.
        Until then, I’m not crowning him like some here are, who’s real intent is to take cheap shots at Lynch and Shanahan.

        1. Cheap shots? I am just stating that if the Niners want to win SBs, it is counter productive to help the team that has been in 5 of the last 6 SBs.
          I cannot stop them if they want to do that, but protecting Brady’s blind side is helping them win games. Last game, Brady was essentially untouched.
          I am just hoping they learn from their mistakes, so they do not repeat them. KS should also brush up on his assessment skills. Trading away talent is self defeating. Retaining talent may help them win.
          Salary cap considerations are specious when the Niners have 43 mil in cap space. I mention that because salary cap considerations were one of the justifications they used to explain why they traded away Brown.

  40. Coach had NO vs JAC in the SB. I had NE vs SF (I know, wishful thinking). Nevertheless, I win 1-0 ;-)
    9-1 straight up picks. 8-2 vs the spread. 5-5 vs O/U. One to go. NE has been installed as a 1 1/2 point favorite as the visitor. That will surely change.

  41. Last I looked McGlinchey was a rookie still learning the NFL game.
    Comparing him to a veteran player who has more games under his belt is absurd.

    I’d like to see Brownie continue to do well in NE, but I won’t pull for him for the purpose of throwing it back in Shanahan’ face.

    1. Brown has allowed .5 sacks more than McGlinchey in 31 more games. His first year as a full time starter he allowed 4.5.

      That’s a 7th round draft pick.

      McGlinchey has the look of a long term starter, and will improve. That pick was ok. The trade of a starter AND a 5th round pick for a 3rd wasn’t.

      1. @jack

        They traded a limited starter (at least the time) in terms of Brown’s ability to run block effectively. But even more importantly they traded a player with one year left on his contract. A player that will likely have to be paid well to be retained (and the odds are the Patriots will not likely hold to him). So the short contract remainder greatly reduces Brown’s value to the Patriots which effects his trade value to the 49ers.

        1. « They traded a limited starter (at least the time) in terms of Brown’s ability to run block effectively. »

          They gained a grand total of .2 yards per carry more this season than they did last year in his starts, and his replacement gave up 5 more sacks.

          « they traded a player with one year left on his contract. A player that will likely have to be paid well to be retained »

          Do the 49ers have a salary cap dilemma I’m not aware of? They have an old left tackle that will be coming off contract next year, easily could have configured a deal to make it work.

          1. « they traded a player with one year left on his contract. A player that will likely have to be paid well to be retained »

            the point about his contract status wasn’t about his value to the Niners but his value to the Patriots. His value to the Patriots (or any trade partner) is reflected in his contract status as well as his actual football value.

      2. A seventh round pick that fell that low due to an inconsistent work ethic and poor conditioning, all of which begs the question of whether Brown is going to return to inconsistency once he gets paid.

        1. Except he hasn’t been inconsistent and his shoulder injury had nothing to do with work ethic or conditioning. The fact that he played so well coming off surgery kinda debunks both of those.

          1. I believe the organization/coaches fell out of trust with him regarding his commitment to be on the field due to the lingering shoulder injury and his lengthy time off………

            1. I believe this might be closer to the truth than the whole « scheme fit » argument, and I think that falling out or lack of trust went both ways.

          2. Brown has been a consistent pass protector, but he has been inferior to average in the run game. To add to it, both the 49ers and Patriots had to keep an eye on his conditioning.

              1. It is also no coincidence that the 49ers went from went from the lower tier in 2017 to 13th in 2018 in regards to the run game despite going through several RBs through the season.

              2. « Based on his PFF grades. »


                As for the run game increase, they went from 4.3 to 4.5, and saying that the increase was all due to McGlinchey misses the fact that there were new players at C and RG.

              3. I could see this being a bigger issue if they had replaced him with a lesser player, but they didn’t. It’s not like losing Brown led to the OL falling apart. They replaced him with a younger guy who played pretty well and will be on a cheaper contract for the next 3 years. Again this kind of thing happens all the time in the league. If a team has no intention of resigning a guy going into his final season they see what they can get for him and the Niners did. Way too much being made of this imo.

              4. Laugh all you want, but the PFF grades are currently one of the best ways to ascertain a player’s performance.
                I am not dismissing the additions of Person and Richburg, but it cannot be ignored that Brown went to an offense that better suited his skill set.

              5. « Laugh all you want, but the PFF grades are currently one of the best ways to ascertain a player’s performance. »

                Watch the games. Do some research. Form your own opinions. Don’t be a sheep.

              6. Very idiotic comment Jack. I do watch games when I can and form my opinion based on what I watch and read. I also never allow my opinion of the current head coach, coaching staff, or player/prospect I wanted to affect my viewpoint of a player or prospect.
                I have yet to see any evidence that supports your claim that a two yard TD from Burkhead who got said TD by running behind Brown is an example of Brown being a fit for the offensive scheme run by Shanahan.

              7. « Baaah, Baaah, Baaah »

                All you have to do is watch the 49ers games from last year and the Patriots games from this year to see it.

                The trade wasn’t because he didn’t fit the scheme.

          1. It’s hard to find another teams castoff that didn’t have success with Belichicks Patriots, starting with Belichick himself.

    2. Here was the situation at the time of the Brown trade:

      Brown had started 10 games for the Niners and missed multiple games due to injury.
      His body type is not the preference for an OT in this system
      He was going into the last year of his contract

      They held on to him until they found his replacement in the draft and then traded him and a 5th for a 3rd round pick.

      I don’t see what the problem is here. They found a young guy who they liked better and traded the vet going into the last season of his contract. Happens all the time and yes Brown has played very well for the Patriots, he played well for the Niners for most of his time here as well, but you make decisions based on what fits your team the best and what you can get for a player who is not in the long term plans. That’s business in the NFL.

            1. Sorry if you don’t like the answer but that’s how it goes. They didn’t see him as the replacement for Staley or the answer at RT for that matter. It didn’t have a negative effect on the team no matter how much you hate the move.

              1. Of course that’s how they saw it. If they saw it differently this discussion isn’t happening.

                As for the negative impact on the team, I guess. I mean they were only the second worst team in the league, his replacement gave up almost as many sacks in 16 games as he has in 47 games. But yeah, the future is oh so bright. Hope springs eternal in the offseason.

              2. Some fans seem to have a lot of trouble wrapping their mind around the possibility that Trent Brown can be very productive as a pass blocker in a power run oriented scheme but not so much use as an overweight tackle in an outside zone running team. Hence, in the latter, one may choose not to give him a huge guaranteed contract. No one questions Brown’s pass blocking skills.

                We can revisit this issue after Bellichick awards a long term contract to Brown with a huge salary that is typical of left tackles. Until then, he’s just a typical one-season rental for Pats.

                Meanwhile it’s worthwhile to read what Kyle thought about Brown after the first off season:
                Those concerns clearly persisted even after the first season was over.

              3. Of course that’s how they saw it. If they saw it differently this discussion isn’t happening.

                Right and I’m telling you this discussion is a waste of time and is simply complaining for the sake of complaining as it had little to no impact on the overall fortunes of the team.

                As for the negative impact on the team, I guess. I mean they were only the second worst team in the league, his replacement gave up almost as many sacks in 16 games as he has in 47 games. But yeah, the future is oh so bright. Hope springs eternal in the offseason.

                Yep they were the second worst team in the league because they traded Trent Brown. Truly profound observation on your part.

              4. The organization has won 17 games the last 4 seasons. They shouldn’t be getting the benefit of the doubt. That was the point with pointing out that they once again sucked this year.

              5. The organization has won 17 games the last 4 seasons. They shouldn’t be getting the benefit of the doubt. That was the point with pointing out that they once again sucked this year.

                The current group has been around for the past two years and that’s all they should be judged on. This is not about giving them the benefit of the doubt. It’s about looking at the trade and what resulted along with understanding they found a player they thought fit better. As soon as that was done it became about finding some value for the player they knew wasn’t going to be around long term. They got a 3rd round pick for a 5th and an injured player going into the last year of his contract. They got a player they liked better at RT and trade value.

              6. A player that bonded with Staley which resulted in getting a couple more years out of the LT, because he probably would have retired after this year….

              7. « The current group has been around for the past two years and that’s all they should be judged on. »

                And they’re a whopping 10-22. Go 9ers!!

              8. I’ve never been a sheep and don’t plan on starting now. You’ve bought in to a lot of bad ideas in the past Jack – Tomsula as HC and Gabbert as the QB off the top of my head – so referring to others as sheep is rather dubious on your part. I call things as I see them. Always have always will, and my support of the current HC is based on seeing what he was able to do with a decent QB and understanding this season was a write off due to injuries to key players. If he has a 4 win season with a healthy team, I will be critical, but to make a big deal out of trading a player they didn’t miss and got some value for is a waste of time.

              9. You’re reaching Jack. You’re now making assumptions based on no evidence and resorting to name calling because your argument has been deconstructed. Move on.

              10. Yeah rocket, I was way wrong on the Tomsula hire. I don’t remember ever saying that I thought Gabbert should be the starting QB, but maybe I did. What I do remember on that was doing a 5 wild predictions piece prior to 2014 in which I stated that Kaepernick would get injured and Gabbert would lead them to the playoffs on the back of the running game and defense.

              11. Mid, the argument hasn’t been deconstructed at all. And please don’t act like you didn’t call something that was said idiotic.

              12. You essentially called me a sheep because I disagree with your take Jack, and I replied that it was a very idiotic comment.
                Your argument in regards to Brown has been debunked by others on here over and over again. The issue is that you refuse to accept it, and that is your choice, as it is mine to say that you pointing out one Patriots run play as evidence that Brown was a scheme fit for the 49ers offense is nothing but hooey.

              13. Jack,

                You had a optimistic expectations for Gabbert in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary much like the hiring of Tomsula and all the high win predictions.

                The point was not to single you out as someone who has been wrong about things, we all have, it was more about how calling others sheep is a tad hypocritical on your part.

              14. No mid, i called you a sheep because you’re following the pack and quite often do.

                My take on Brown hasn’t been debunked. The team gained .2 yards more per carry this year in part to McGlinchey but also in part to a new center, RG and more explosive running back all while giving up more sacks.

                Rocket, that was my take on Gabbert. He’s a good backup. Is he a starter no. That’s why I said what I did with regards to him stepping in and leading the team with the run game and defense.

                How is me calling others sheep when I’m making my own observations which aren’t necessarily in line those of the many in the fan base? If I was saying the same thing as everyone else then yeah, I’d be a sheep too.

              15. We all should refrain from the personal asides. Jack and Houston kinda remind me of my interactions with Prime.
                This blog would do best when we can allow for dissent, and do it calmly and civilly. I hope posters have seen that I have tried to be less cantankerous and more complimentary, and Renas has provided a good example of what good sportsmanship looks like.

              16. Jack,

                No this was more than saying Gabbert was a good backup. Going into the first season under Kelly you were pretty high on him as the starter.

                You have taken the sheep path yourself in regards to going along with some of the things I pointed out. That is why it is hypocritical of you to accuse others of doing it now. You disagree with those of us that don’t see the trading of Brown as a big problem. That’s your prerogative, but it certainly isn’t based on being sheep and believing the team can do no wrong. It’s based on how everything played out and the situation they were in at the time. We see teams do this all the time in similar situations.

              17. This is a rough idea of the difference McGlinchey made this season. Yes, it isn’t perfect because it requires extrapolation of the numbers put up by the offense in Browns 10 starts to get the 16 game totals. Just want to note that.

                In Browns 10 games last season the 49ers averaged 4.3 yards per carry, at the same 423 as they ran this season that total would be 1802 yards compared to 1902 for this season. Brown gave up one sack in his 10 games last year for 7 yards, so 11.3 for 16 games compared to 76.50 this season by McGlinchey. That nets out to a total improvement of 34.7 yards for the year.

                That doesn’t account for the changes at center and right guard, or a more explosive running back.

                Brown was such a bad scheme fit that getting rid of him allowed the team to gain an additional 2.17 yards.

                Now, go back and look at the extra 5 sacks given up by McGlinchey this season, how many potential additional yards were lost?

              18. At 8 yards per pass attempt and their 60% completion rate these 5 extra sacks potentially cost the 49ers another 24 yards in offense.

                What does this mean?

                The extra 100 yards of offense gained on the ground was negated by the 100.5 lost in the passing game.

                But please keep telling me how much improvement was shown this year because they traded a guy due to « scheme fit »

              19. Name three things you have criticized the new regime for.

                Redzone offense
                3rd down percentage
                Drafting Solomon Thomas
                Trading up for Pettis
                Taking an injured DL in the 4th round

                I’m sure I’ll come up with more if I really think about it.

              20. But please keep telling me how much improvement was shown this year because they traded a guy due to « scheme fit »

                I don’t know if this was directed at me or not but that isn’t what I’m arguing. I think scheme fit could be one of the reasons he may have been traded but don’t know that for sure and it certainly wouldn’t have been the only reason. There was also the fact he was injured and going into the last year of his rookie deal. Whatever the case, they didn’t miss him. Pass protection did struggle at times but that was more the interior than the OT’s. I just don’t see getting a younger guy who fits what you want size and mobility wise and turning the vet into a 3rd round pick as a bad move. That is pretty much the norm in these situations across the NFL.

              21. No mid, i called you a sheep because you’re following the pack and quite often do.

                Yet another idiotic comment from you Jack. You are on a roll today. 🙄 I have never followed the pack nor will ever be interested in doing so. I make my own conclusions based on what I see and what I read, just like you have. Only someone that does not have a solid form of rebuttal pulls the pathetic ‘follow the pack’ card as a form of defense.

              22. Name three things you have criticized the new regime for.

                Poor play in the secondary
                Lack of competition
                Trading up for Pettis
                Trading up for Beathard
                No true edge rusher
                The Pierre Garcon signing

              23. Mid,

                You are a sheep who quite often calls anyone being critical of the team idiotic and giving the excuse that it’s a rebuild. You’ve drank the koolaid my friend.

              24. No Jack, I call comments like yours idiotic because they are. There is no base to your argument. You are making stupid assumptions about me because I ask for actual evidence, and you fail to produce it. Therefore, calling me a sheep is your only line of defense. Quite frankly, it is childish on your part and a sign that you have no valid argument. You have yet to show why a two yard TD scamper is evidence that Brown fit Shanahan’s offensive scheme, and I doubt you will since you are too busy labeling people who disagree with you as sheep.

              25. Mid,

                I’ve presented a number of reasons to show how good Brown is and why the whole scheme fit excuse doesn’t hold up.

                If you think I’m basing this off a single play you’re not paying attention. Try keeping up my friend.

              26. What started this whole thing (at during the past 24 hours) is that you did base your argument on that one play.

                Jack Hammer says:
                January 20, 2019 at 6:52 pm

                Pats run it behind Brown for the go ahead score. Not a scheme fit though. What a joke.

              27. If you think that’s the only play I’m basing my opinion on you’re not very bright. Don’t think that’s the case so try to keep up my friend.

              28. Of course not Jack, but you have yet to state or provide evidence as to why that one play caused to make your post.

              29. DUH!!! But what in the play made you believe all the more that Brown fit Shanahan’s offensive scheme?

              30. Good one! Deserved that. Nothing about that particular play really, though it did look do milar to the blocking scheme used on Breida’s long TD run against Detroit

              31. Okay, that is what I was needing to know. I don’t really agree with your take because the Burkhead play appears to be more of a power run inside with FB Develin clearing a lane for Burkhead, but I can see a couple of similarities between it and the Breida run, so I can understand your thinking behind that post now.

              32. It’s basically a Wall play. TE kicks out, Tackle blocks down, FB leads through the hole. It’s a standard run play. Looks a little different there because it’s on the goal line instead of middle of the field.

              33. Anyone who is familiar with this team, would know that Kyle was very frustrated with the team’s inability to run the football over the right side of the OL in 2017. So much so that he nearly gave up trying all together. And Kyle was hardly secret about his frustrations with this, and how much more predictable his offense became.

                And, BTW, could it be a coincidence that the 49ers won every game Trent Brown missed in 2017 (all 4)? If the team was 4-0 without Brown last season, it’s hard to argue his value, isn’t it Jack?

                These are the reason I question whether Jack truly follows this team, or is simply looking to troll Niner fans. I suspect it’s the latter.

  42. Looks like a dinosaur did well enough to keep sure-to-win (and Grant heartthrob) Andy Reid out of the Super Bowl. And do it on the road where the Patriots had struggled of late.

    Wonder what Grant would be writing this morning if he covered the Chiefs for a KC newspaper…?

    1. Yup, and the genius young McVay looked anything but yesterday.
      If not for one of the worst no-calls on an agregeous PI we’re likely talking about a Brees vs Brady match up.

      Wonder if McVay will receive the same criticism that Harbaugh got if he loses the SB?

        1. F49,
          I’ll settle for a “very good marriage.”
          Very good team and what looks like a very good head coach.
          But time will give us the best lens. It took Belichick 5 SB wins to finally wear the title of the GOAT of head coaches.
          I’ll wait on McVay as well.

      1. The non call of the face mask gives the rams 1st and 10 at the 2 yard line. Game over there.
        Instead the Rams still had to hit a 67 yard field goal to win.
        Watch the initial tv angle which coincidentally is the refs angle. It appears it was the same time. It wasn’t until the end zone view was shown that the err was beyond obvious. But good luck finding the back side view that was initially aired.

  43. Just out of curiousity, why the “F” are we still talking about Brown? In case you hadn’t noticed, he’s not on the team anymore. He’s gone. Get over it. Maybe the discussion should move to “why did the Giants trade Orlando Cepeda”? Ridiculous. Players get traded. Players sign with other teams. Sometimes they do well. Sometimes not. Sometimes coaches don’t think they fit. Sometimes they do, or would have. Sometimes they don’t, or wouldn’t have. So you think Shanahan made a mistake. Bully for you. Jeez. Need a tissue?

    1. Fanboys of Brown like to post their little stats to take jabs at the 49ers HC, but one little stat they seemingly ignore is how McGlinchey bonded with Staley and the effect it had on not only his passion to continue to play but also competition….

    2. Because some here didn’t like the trade and are now pushing their agenda of Shanahan coach shaming.
      Hey, I’m old and like to cut to the chase these days 🙂

        1. So, a team in full rebuild loses their two projected starters and they are still expected to win?
          Now if we were the 49ers of the late 80′ and lost starters to injuries, I would say yes, we should still be expected to win because those teams were not in rebuild mode and were multi-talented. Heck, Steve Young was waiting in the wings.

          Nobody is going to convince me that a team in full rebuild mode with a handful of talent is supposed to win a make the playoffs like some here gave pushed.

        2. Plus, it seems people are conflating whether the 49ers got enough in return for Brown, and whether they should have held onto a OT whom they couldn’t win with (2-10 record with Brown, 4-0 without him in 2017) and let him walk in free agency, getting nothing in return.

          I agree with those who think they could have got more for him. I suspect there is more to the trade than meets the eye.

        3. Gould amounted to about 60% of their scores. So yes, they need to learn to punch it in. Don’t think either of the two players you mentioned could have helped with that dilemma.

          The team was able to generate yards. What it had trouble with was putting it consistently in the end zone.

    3. I just look at all the talent that the Niners failed to retain, and wonder why they let those players go. They let Frank Gore go, and he had productive seasons. They cut Looney, and he plays center for a playoff team. They trade Brown and he is playing in the SB.
      Yes, they made mistakes, but they need to learn from their mistakes, or they will keep making the same mistakes. First of all, they should not help a SB powerhouse.

  44. WTF? Cepeda is gone? No way!

    Next thing ya know, some fool will claim the Raiders traded Stabler. Insane!

  45. Brady looked like he had a magnetic force field surrounding him. Hard to believe the Chiefs pass rush was that bad or the Pats line blocking was that good. The only time I remember him being touched he was hit by a defender’s arm in his shoulder pads and it drew a personal foul penalty. (Mahomes was hit helmet to helmet and it went unnoticed. ) That penalty call must have come from the ref’s disbelief that anyone could penetrate the force shield without cheating. Seriously, whatever the Pats did or the Chief’s didn’t do to get to Brady made the Pats win inevitable. You let that 41 year old guy just drop back and deliver the ball to his receivers and there ain’t no one could beat them. Also, think hard about the difference in the rules for hitting the QB, especially a big name QB like Brady, before you tell me that he is the GOAT and Montana is second.

    1. I feel that the loss of Kareem Hunt came back to haunt them.
      Belichik consistently came after Mahomes knowing that their RB position was lacking.
      Btw, wonder if some team will take a chance on him next year.

      1. I think the bigger issue is the Chiefs did not invest enough into their defense. A lot of pieces got old, and the team really did not try to replace them.

      2. I don’t think they missed Hunt that much. Williams scored 3 TD’s for them. Not running the the ball enough was the bigger problem along with some big time mistakes by Mahomes in the first half that cost them points.

        1. Hunt would have given the chiefs a breakaway threat that Belichik would have had to scheme for.
          I yield to your “what if” sentiments on this one.

          1. True he would have, but they got 3 TD’s out of his replacement. The bigger issue imo was not running the ball enough rather than who they had running it.

  46. Lol Cassie! They really made a mistake trading Kwalick to the Raiders. I’m still bummed. Darn coaches think they can just have the players they want.

  47. That missed PI call was horrible, but the game was fixed? Take off the tin foil hats boys.

    The Saints still had the lead with less than 2 minutes to go and their D couldn’t hold up. Then they won the coin flip, which after the second game some are screaming decided it, and went out and turned the ball over.

    The Saints couldn’t regroup and find a way. That’s on them. Heck they had a 13-0 lead in Q1 and couldn’t hold that. But sure, the fix was in.

    1. With you on this one Jack. The Saints had plenty of chances to win that game and didn’t. There have been bad calls/non calls since the game was first played. If the game is fixed then why in the hell watch it…..

      1. Problem is that the refs (NFL) employees weren’t going to make the correct calls.
        I think that there are a few saints fans and players that feel the same way today.

    2. Get real Hammer. You damn well that non call sealed the game. LA had the momentum at that point and the call was so bad no way you can’t say it wasn’t on purpose. Let me guess. Boxing isn’t rigged for certain fights either.
      You can post anything you want on what happened before and after that play. But it means nothing at this point.
      I’ve seen flags thrown from 20 yards away and in the other side of the field. Every ref was watching that play and not one of them threw a flag?
      Stop with your Tin foil hat dismissive tactics. You’re that guy that refuses to look outside of what you believe is reality. Because you’re TOLD to believe it.

      1. I don’t use tin foil… Aluminum producers are controlled by dark governments. I use common cattle dung, dried by trusted western ranchers and formed into skull covers. Try ’em.

      2. So the NFL somehow rigged the game so well that they knew the Rams were going to get the ball back and score, or that Brees would throw a pick to a DB that was falling down and on his back when he caught the ball?

        You’re awesome bro!

      3. You can post anything you want on what happened before and after that play. But it means nothing at this point.

        This makes no sense on any level MD. In order for someone to believe the game is rigged there needs to be an obvious bias towards one of the teams and there wasn’t any. If the league were truly favoring the Saints they could have easily had the officials call them for holding to ruin drives multiple times instead of having them miss an obvious penalty that resulted in intense scrutiny. The Saints had 3 penalties called on them the entire game while 6 were called on the Rams for more than double the yardage.

        The league doesn’t rig games; they just have incompetent officiating far too often.

        1. I waver back-and-forth on this issue because I still remember favorable calls during the Walsh years for the 49ers and then saw offensive PI by Michael Irvin and defensive holding by Sherman for so many years. Additionally, Brady seems to have a lot of calls go his way.

          Was it PI? No question! Should the flag have been thrown? Of course! Should the Saints be in the SB? Well, here is where I side with Hammer. The Saints should have taken care of business one way or another and not have to be subject to that as a deciding factor.

          This is how I reconcile the past poor calls and those of my teams when we had calls go against us which we thought were obvious. You do what you should and the rest takes care of itself. Bottom line.

          Does it mean incompetence by the officials or collusion? Dunno and don’t care. I come to watch two competitors go toe-to-toe and enjoy the spectacle. Both games were very good and any team could have won but the ones who deserved it more did.

    3. If the correct call is made on the PI there is no overtime.
      That no-call reminded me of the 49ers /Ravens Superbowl in which 49ers players were being held on the Ravens 2nd half kickoff TD return.
      Guess that no-call didn’t change the outcome of that game as well.

      1. AES,

        Yes that call likely ends the game but what if it didn’t? What if the Saints fumbled the snap on the next play? Likely? No but not impossible either. That is why I don’t buy the Saints losing because of that no call argument. You don’t lose the game based on that penalty not being called. There is still a game to be played and you are fully in control of your own outcome. They took the lead with less than two minutes to play and win if they stop the Rams. They didn’t and then turned the ball over in OT. That is why they lost. Not because of a missed call.

        1. Exactly! The next couple of plays are runs, there can be a fumble and/or holding calls and puts them at long FG range and a missed field goal, or a blocked field goal run back. A lot can happen in a game.

        2. Rocket,
          Sports is inundated with what if’s, what we have here is an obvious missed call that could have changed the tenor of game.
          The issue goes beyond yesterday’s game. Many games have been effected by bad referees call.

          At this point the only discussion should be what can the league do to rectify this problem going forward.

          I still get a little tasty when I remember how the referees stole a possible SB appearance by the 49ers in the 1983 championship game against Washington on a bad PI call against Eric Wright.
          Sure even in that game there were many IF’S, but the fact was that one bad call changed the complexion of the game.

          The NFL is a huge money cow, these type of calls will cast doubt on their integrity.
          Rigged may be too strong a word, but if league doesn’t get it right words like scripted and rigged will become more audible.

          1. AES,

            In a sport created and run by human beings there will be mistakes. There have been changes implemented to try and reduce them, but you are never going to get rid of them completely. That example you gave is a good one. Another good one is when Jerry Rice fumbled against GB which would have ended the game but the refs missed it allowing the Niners to eventually score the winning TD. It happens to all teams at some time or another. It isn’t a conscious effort by the league to screw anybody. It is simply human error.

            1. Rocket,
              I believe in human error in games. But I also believe that human error should be correctable especially when it’s blatantly obvious.

              Why didn’t the referees converge for a quick meeting after the play?
              Sure, there is human error in sports, but what was there about that play that cast any doubt or debate?

    4. With the salary cap-thats the issue.

      Forget about the 9ers greatness for a second, and someone tell me how Brady does this against the ’86 Giants? Aint happening.

  48. As Lowell Cohn tweeted…

    12h12 hours ago

    I can finally reveal why KC lost to New England in today’s game. It was Kyle Shanahan’s fault.

    1. Brown has certainly helped Brady get to the post season this year. Is he the reason they are in the SB? No, doesn’t change the fact our FO made a huge mistake trading him.

      Same as Baalke did when he got rid of Delanie Walker.

      1. FO made a huge mistake trading him.

        Yup, just to spite the Pats, Shanalynch should just have paid Brown a starter tackle salary and had him ride the pine since, in Shanhan’s opinion, Brown’s inconsistent run-blocking effort didn’t allow him to be functional in Kyle’s outsize zone runs with reach blocks. But what do the coaches and front office know about the players who fit their scheme?

          1. McGlinchey had never played G in his life and the whole idea of drafting him was so they could have a more athletic run blocker at RT.

            1. Fine, but it would have been a good transition and likely have had better protection. You don’t get rid of good players especially with as many holes as the team had.

              Great coaches adapt. Decent coaches scheme, poor coaches look for the perfect player to fit their system.

              1. Teams dump players who don’t fit all the time. This is not confined to the 49ers. All Coaches look for fits for their system and in this case there was also the fact that the vet was in the last year of his contract.

              2. Sure that happens, but when you are a bad team, and we are a bad team, you really don’t have that luxury.

                One of the challenges this team faced this year, and you have pointed it out repeatedly was injuries. Had any of the key lineman been hurt the loss of this OT would have been more glaring.

                As it was it wasn’t as glaring but this was an excellent pass blocker who may have helped in many games when the 49er QBs were under siege.

                I go back to coaches and adaptability. Belichick adapts and fits his scheme to the opposition and therefore is not one dimensional. One dimensional teams will always be on the outside looking in.

              3. EC,

                This is exactly what a team in the Niners situation does and is supposed to do. They are in a complete rebuild. That means you don’t find a way to make players fit; you find players who do. That’s the whole point of rebuilding. Why would you keep a player you don’t want and have no interest in resigning? You trade away players in that situation which is what Belichick also does. Belichick also doesn’t just take players and make things work. He has made numerous bad draft picks that haven’t worked out for him along with some trades and FA signings. Yes he keeps winning year after year but it’s not because he makes every move correctly.

              4. Rocket,

                Didn’t say or even imply that BB doesn’t get rid of players or that everyove he makes is a good one. I was pointing at his adaptability and capacity to use players others deem expendable or not great (see 49ers, Julian Edelman, Wes Walker and others) and use them to full capacity.

                My point is that you don’t get rid of good productive players for nothing and expect to gain something in the return. Brown is a very good OT, one of the best, and yet because he wasn’t a “scheme fit” we got rid of him.

                At least they didn’t get rid of him prior to having a replacement (but that was certainly not a given at the point of trade – just hypothetical).

                The fact he has thrived as much as he has points to the error of the trade. Yes he was in his last year of his contract but Staley is the last years of his and he could have been hurt or play not as good. The fact that it didn’t happen does not negate that getting rid of him was an unwise move as we may see going forward.

                You have repeatedly pointed out that injuries racked this team this year. Last year during FA and the draft I repeatedly pointed out how paper thin this team was and that injuries were a major possibility going forward. Several posters told me every team had to contend with that. How well did this team contend with injuries, given the roster it had at the end of last year? Brown plays a part in these equations too because by grabbing McGlinchy they failed to address other areas of need (Pass Rush, CB). It was lost opportunities. I fear this may be the legacy of this team. Plenty of excuses but not execution.

              5. My point is that you don’t get rid of good productive players for nothing and expect to gain something in the return. Brown is a very good OT, one of the best, and yet because he wasn’t a “scheme fit” we got rid of him.

                Some on here are taking offense to him not being a scheme fit so how about we just say he wasn’t their kind of player. Your point is flawed here because they did get something for him and at the time most believed it was a good trade because Brown was injured and going into the final year of his contract. He has had a very good year in NE, and McGlinchey had a very good rookie year here. Trading Brown did not have a negative impact on the team. If one of the OT’s had gone down with a long term injury then sure it would have been good to have him, but the business of football is not that simple. If you have a player who is not going to start and you are going to let go after the season the obvious move is to see what you can get in a trade. That is NFL 101 across the league. The 49ers did that and it worked out for both sides.

                The fact he has thrived as much as he has points to the error of the trade. Yes he was in his last year of his contract but Staley is the last years of his and he could have been hurt or play not as good. The fact that it didn’t happen does not negate that getting rid of him was an unwise move as we may see going forward.

                No it shows he did well playing for NE. When he was in SF last year he struggled at times with run blocking and missed a bunch of games with a shoulder injury. They decided to move on, found somebody they liked better and got something for the odd man out.

            1. Believe it or not, I agree with East, McGlinchey would have been a huge upgrade from Person. In the NFL, players change positions all the time.
              Beadles, who I was never a big fan of, went from LG to RG to RT to C, over the course of a season.

              1. I believe we have had players move from guard to center and vice versa too.

                If Shanalynch has a better record they wouldn’t get second guessed but with the record they have it ought to be at least a question!

              2. Yes Sour, players move along the line all of the time. McGlinchey played well in the 2nd half of the Minnesota game at RG. Yeah it was a small sample size, but shows that it could have been done.

                It should be all about having the best 5. In this situation I don’t think that the scheme is why Brown isn’t here. There’s likely more to it as someone else touched upon earlier.

  49. As bad as the missed call in the Saints-Rams was, it is overshadowing what was a really great game. In fact we had two truly exceptional games yesterday with both going into OT which I’m not sure has ever happened before. It’s a terrible feeling if you are a Saints or Chiefs fan, but the quality of the games was great for football fans.

  50. People won’t care if the game is competitive if the outcome feels tainted. Unexplainable missed calls only leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth. The league has been teetering for the past few years on a dangerous precipice. Empty stadiums and inconsistent tv ratings are only a couple signs of where the league stands at the moment in this country.

    The league’s never had a legitimate excuse to not allow every play to be allowed and now the pressure will be greater then ever for the league to give up this last bit of control over the game. A missed call by a ref is just as much of an intrusion on the game as a thrown flag, if not even more so. If they still allow only two challenges per coach and all challenges become booth initiated after 2 minutes then the game wont be any more impacted then it currently is other then the ability to right obvious wrongs.

    1. That’s your opinion and you are welcome to it, but other people like myself see it differently. Bad calls/missed calls have been a part of the game since it began and while this particular call kept the Saints from winning the game right then and there, it didn’t decide the eventual outcome. They still took the lead, still had a chance to end it on defense, still had a chance to end it in OT and didn’t.

      The TV ratings were up this year overall and the league continues to dwarf every other sport in the Country so I don’t think they are all that concerned about a missed call blowing everything up.

      I agree Coaches should be allowed to challenge pretty much anything that affects the outcome. Not sure we’ll ever see that, but they should.

      1. Agree on all your points.

        I agree Coaches should be allowed to challenge pretty much anything that affects the outcome.

        Something like that has to be implemented because the referee’s job is just too hard these days because of the speed of the game. Even some slo mo look like it’s being played almost in real time. Also referees are human and the best of them will have occasional brain cramps, may be even at a critical moment. The key is to have a channel to double check the most important decisions that are close calls and will have a high probability of affecting the game’s outcome. I am all for having permanent officials but that won’t make them super-human.

    2. Coffee,
      I don’t understand why they can’t allow a call on the field to be challenged or rather a non-call.
      Some say it would make the game to long… but as long as the number of challenges was limited, it would be up to the coach to use them properly. If they squandered a challenge too early and there was a terrible call late in the game that’s on the coach, it becomes a part of the game and shouldn’t make the game last longer.

  51. For those on this blog who’ve played sports where refs and umps are involved, what did our coaches say to us about questionable calls as we prepared to play? And during a game? And afterward?

    Anyone on this blog serve as a ref or ump? How did that go?

    1. Bad calls/missed calls are going to happen and you just need to move on to the next play and forget about it. The game didn’t end when that call was missed and that is what you need to focus on.

    2. I used to tell my players (soccer but everything still applies): “you do what you should and the rest takes care of itself.”

      There are countless missed opportunities that outweigh any one bad call. You minimize these or create more mistakes in the opposition, you are more likely to have a favorable outcome.

      Saints had plenty of chances. So did the Chiefs. Both were at home so there are really no excuses for letting the other team hang around.

  52. With the team in an everlong shame spiral this has become my favorite part of the NFL year. Free Agency and Draft season is upon us.

    Now notice which of those I listed first. There’s always way too much impulse to jump straight into the draft and start producing a new mock every time you watch a youtube video. Without the moves made in free agency you can spend weeks focusing in on a position in the draft only to have it addressed and the need evaporate in the first day of free agency. No point getting wrapped up trying to figure out what the team needs at the end of April when it can all change by the middle of March.

    Are you positive you still want Bosa if the team goes out and signs the best free agent pass rusher on the market? No? Then why do you keep mocking him first when you don’t even know if the team will need him.

    Free agency THEN the draft.

    1. Are you positive you still want Bosa if the team goes out and signs the best free agent pass rusher on the market?


      1. +1, but I do see CFC’s point here. The draft is going to be affected in some way by what they do in FA, although I don’t see them passing on Bosa under any circumstance unless they get a ridiculous trade offer.

    1. Yeah, it is. It’s actually a bit more concerned about him than I am, but does a good job of outlining why there should be concerns with taking him so high.

      1. Agreed. I am leaning more towards wanting to see the 49ers trade down and take someone like Sweat, Polite, or White. If they cannot trade down and Bosa is off the board, then Q. Williams is the best way to go.

  53. My two cents on the PI non-call:

    In hindsight, if I were Payton and had the presence of mind after the refs blew it, I would’ve taken my players off the field and told the head ref we were no longer going to play unless they reconsidered the play. I know it wasn’t reviewable, but this would’ve stopped the game and, I assume, forced New York to instruct the refs to confer and throw a flag. I expect some of you will think this would have set a bad precedent, but, really, the season’s almost over and what’s the sense of watching a game if so egregious a non-call can be allowed to stand? It’s almost certain the Saints would’ve won.

    1. George,

      All that would have resulted was a delay of game penalty on the Saints because there is no rule in affect for that call to be reviewed and/or overturned.

      1. Although the league has yet to publicly admit its blunder (despite the fact that everyone knows that it was a blunder), an acknowledgement is expected. What shouldn’t be expected is an invocation of Rule 17, Section 2, even though Saints receiver Michael Thomas seems to be on board with the concept that was outlined here last night.

        The league office has not responded to a request for comment regarding the intended application of the rule, which authorizes the Commissioner to, among other things, replay the game from the point of an extraordinarily unfair act. A source with extensive knowledge of the rulebook tells PFT that Rule 17 would apply not to a missed judgment (even an egregious one) but to something beyond the boundaries of the game, such as for example a player coming off the bench to interfere with the play and the officials missing it.

        Some would argue that Robey-Coleman’s deliberate decision to take out Lewis in order to save a touchdown comes close to that line. Even if it would come close to the line of do-over demarcation, it’s already too late for the Commissioner to do anything about it, as a practical matter.

        Rams fans have purchased tickets and plane fare in reliance upon the Rams playing in the Super Bowl, and the Rams have hopped a plane and returned to L.A. If Rule 17 would ever be invoked, it would have to be invoked quickly, and decisively.

        Thus, while the Commissioner has shockingly broad powers to fix extreme messes, Sunday’s mess apparently wasn’t extreme enough.

        1. It would be more egregious for the Commissioner to step in than to let the result stand. It was a missed call but the game didn’t end on that play. As bad as the missed call was, the Saints were still able to take the lead and end the game on defense. They didn’t and the Rams one. Bad officiating but far from being bad enough to resort to an extreme like the one PFT proposed.

          1. “there is no rule in affect for that call to be reviewed and/or overturned.” True but there is also no rule that PROHIBITS it. Refs meet and confer many times during the season and sometimes reverse their calls. I doubt that NFL officials are any different than baseball umpires – your absolute first responsibility is to get the call right. How you do it does give some leeway to the officials. In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. If you are suggesting that one official who saw the bad call cannot make the case that his peers erred, the NFL is in worse shape than any of us believe. I don’t believe they all missed the call but they did lose sight of their first duty as an official. Maybe George’s plan would have woken the up.

            1. WC,

              Your point here applies right after a play when the officials get together to sort out a flag. No flag was thrown and thus no reason for the officials to huddle up to discuss anything. If Payton had done what George suggested, not only would he have not gotten the call but he would have incurred an unsportsmanlike/delay of game penalty or both. Coaches argue calls and non calls all the time and this was no different other than it was in a playoff game.

              1. Your point here applies right after a play when the officials get together to sort out a flag.

                Rocket, if I’ve seen refs huddle over a grounding non-call and then throw the flag afterwards (and I have), I know you have too.

              2. That’s basically my point, rib. In hindsight, Payton needed to pressure them somehow before the start of the next play. So pull the team off the field and let the refs’ knees start to shake.

              3. Rib,

                Ok just for you: Have you ever seen the officials huddle after an incomplete pass with no flag being thrown that wasn’t grounding? The point was there was no reason for them to do anything but move to the next play. If one of them had decided it was a penalty they would have thrown the flag, but nobody did. What is there to discuss at that point? The play is over.

              4. Rocket, you are a stickler for the rules in this thread. Is there something in the rule book that allows a ref huddle and late flag for grounding situations only. I don’t know, but I doubt it.

              5. Rib,

                I’m just going by what happens when a call or in this case non call is made. Nobody threw a flag on the play so there is no reason for them to huddle and talk about it. We can guess as to why nobody threw a flag but the simple fact is no one did, so why would they talk about it? George’s idea of Payton taking his team off the field wouldn’t change that and if it did it would open the officials up to a whole other world of criticism for being intimidated into throwing a flag after the fact. If Payton had done something like that, it would have been penalized because you aren’t going to get anywhere by showing up the officials.

                This wasn’t the first missed call and won’t be the last. It’s unfortunately a part of the game that sucks but is unfixable until they allow Coaches to challenge penalty calls.

          1. CFB,
            At best, after yesterday’s egregious non-call we can all agree that the NFL has a real conundrum on their hands.

            At first blush I would like to see more referees on the field but this might only add to the incompetence.
            How about having the head referee in the stadium video booth determining calls. It’s obvious that the current system is not working.

          2. Yeah, but Cassie, thats like admitting the sky is blue during the Summer in the Sacramento Valley. Big Deal!
            What I would like to know is how all those Refs saw that and uniformly did nothing! No meeting, no dissent-nothing. They knew what they saw……..

            It’s probably what Juan said–in an effort to not change the game, they changed the game. But I have seen some horribly officiated games the last decade. Something is wrong with this league, that determines who goes to the SB in that way. With the leagues intent for parity, there’s going to be more of this-games hanging on one play, one phantom call.

      2. Rocket-ship………….

        As u well know, u have to make a stand sometimes. That no-call was a concerted effort by the refs………they saw it, everybody saw it, and they CHOSE not to call it-all of them. It was the mindset……….what other conclusion can anyone come to on such a blatant, purposeful no-call? It was a text-book PI as well as helmet to helmet, but the refs knew if they called it at that point in the game, Saints win.
        This points to Goodell and the disparity of revenues with respect to New Orleans and Southern Ca.

        1. I hear through my NSA contact that Goodell has exclusive use of a black helicopter.

          And get this–immediately following the Raiders-Steelers ‘Immaculate Reception’ playoff game (12/23/1972), a black helicopter lifted off behind Three Rivers Stadium.

            1. My nephew has a bit part. I signed away my rights years ago so no royalties for me. Still mad about that–blame it on my plutonium dependency.

        2. It was a missed call. That’s it and nothing more. Why it was missed is anybody’s guess but it wasn’t because of a concerted effort by the league to keep the Saints out of the SB. Nothing about this game supports that theory unless you are a conspiracy enthusiast who doesn’t need any proof to believe in something preposterous.

          1. Rocket
            January 21, 2019 at 1:16 pm
            “It was a missed call. That’s it and nothing more.”

            It was a missed call that reverberates throughout the NFL landscape.
            There are missed calls all the time, but this one was a 7.0 on the richter scale.

            Unlike other missed calls this one clamers for immediate change. This missed call is a wake up call for the league to restore its consumers trust and rebuild its integrity.
            It’s much more than just a missed call.

      3. rocket, hi. I understand that. However, if the Saints then refused to play, the League would have had a terrible problem on its hands. They would have had to end the game and give the win to the Rams, or they would have had to, behind the scenes, order the flag. Given the national audience and the clear replay evidence, I think they would’ve buckled. This is hypothetical, so I’m not making a big deal about it. The thing is, though, the refs weren’t blind. Someone wanted the Rams to win, whoever that was — the League, some gambling entity, who knows? Just common sense imo.

        1. George,

          There is nothing that can be done to change the call at that point. Payton could drop his pants and run up and down the sidelines if he wanted to and it wouldn’t have changed anything because you can’t change the call after the play is over. There is no review for penalties or non calls, so the officials knees wouldn’t be shaking if Payton took his team off the field. They’d be throwing a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct and delay of game.

          1. rocket, I understand what you’re saying. I understand the rules, most of them anyway. There’s a rule about PI and the refs ignored that. I was talking about taking the bull by the horns and forcing the right result. It would have been bold, but as rib said above, sometimes the refs agree on a late flag.

            1. George,

              You are assuming the officials ignored it but most of them likely didn’t see it and the one who ignored it as you say may have just decided he was going to let them play at that point. We don’t know, but your idea wouldn’t work because they aren’t going to throw a flag due to a protest by the HC. Officials will make mistakes but they aren’t going to make decisions on a penalty based on a HC’s complaints or the replay playing in the stadium. They can’t do their jobs that way and would be suspended or even fired if they ever did.

    2. Salutations, George, hope your new year has started strong and healthy.
      Hope this game did not make your blood boil, it is bad for the ticker. ;p
      I think your idea is a teensy bit extreme. The better remedy, which Houston outlined, would be to allow the HC to throw a red flag on any play. The league office even admitted the refs blew the call, and they even said the refs missed a helmet to helmet blow.

    3. I’m glad the Rams won that game. The refs missed that call, but so what? Mistakes happen. The Saints can cry foul all they want. But, weren’t the better team. Their defense choked when it counted most.

  54. No fix. They’re not that smart . It’s just a lousy call. In an effort not to make a game deciding call, they make a game deciding call. That’s all.

    1. Those refs will do as their “told”-they know its not in their best interests to piss off Goodell. Their was not one single dissenting ref in the whole crew……on a play a kid could have seen it was PI.

      Big, big $$ has ruined the game.

          1. I miss the UH-1D black helicopters. You could hear ’em miles away by their distinct whump-whump rotor sound.

            Today’s UH-60s are a bit quieter–until they’re really close.

            Did you know that several of the larger National Parks have underground facilities to house the helicopters and special ops groups?

        1. As a matter of fact, I have! I determined, thru geometric logic a few yrs ago, …………………………………………………………………………SEB IS ACTUALLY ELVIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          (I also had a long and meaningful conversation with Bigfoot up off of Hwy 40 in the Sierras. Only problem was, he wouldn’t talk back. So I put an end to that right then and there).

    2. I even thought the Pats- Chiefs game was fixed. 3 challenges, and the Chiefs lost them all. Then the phantom blow to the head. Then, to top it off, Brady throws a pick, and the- lined up in the neutral zone flag, wiped it out. Pats get to keep the ball, when the Chiefs would have won the game, otherwise.
      I still love the game, but the League hierarchy just turns my stomach. League sanctioned homophobia, intolerance to dissent, blatant racial prejudice, Reefer madness, DV coddling, putrid officiating, indifference to CTE, and lack of health care, is shameful.

      1. Face it Sebbie…. A dinosaur played well enough to win. End of story. I hate the Pats, but that’s the game.

        Hate the NFL? Do something about it. Hunger strike. Travel to NY and block the door at NFL HQ. DO SOMETHING rather than run your mouth/bang on your keyboard.

        1. Cassie, I am a Die Hard Faithful Niner fan, but more importantly, I am an American.
          I know America is already great, but in order to create a more perfect union, ensure domestic tranquility, promote the general welfare, and allow for the pursuit of happiness, I will assert my rights to free speech.
          I will always protest against injustices, and seek justice and harmony throughout the land.
          Thankfully, the pen is mightier than the sword, and there is nothing more powerful than an idea, whose time has come, and can change the world. I can do a lot more here than traveling for a photo op, which will be ignored.
          I AM doing something. I have pointed out the stench of Baalke, and now see the stench of Paraag. His fingerprints are all over that horribly lopsided trade for Brown. A third round pick for Brown and a 5th round pick? Brown, the guy who has protected Brady’s blind side, so now the Pats are poised to win the SB? Jed got hosed, and his buddy, Paraag was the guy on the phones setting it all up.

          1. ‘Pointing out’ is a tiny step toward change. Very tiny.

            So, what’s next? Try going on a hunger strike and allow regional and national media to interview you. Get your message out. Too, have your writing truly preset on the national stage. As much as some of us may feel the Press Democrat 49ers Blog is a nation beacon of immeasurable importance, it’s not. Sorry…with few exceptions you’re pretty much being ignored here. You need a broader audience.

            As you say Sebbie, go bold.

            PS… A dinosaur (your term, not mine) played well enough to upend the hot and trendy Chiefs.

            1. You, with your snark, bring the stench. I will not suffers fools gladly. Stop haunting my posts, and I will be civil towards you.
              I gotta laugh. Misspellers tend to go emo, trying so hard to counter a post. You not only made a mistake, you made one in your correction.
              Here is a friendly piece of advice. Never let them see you sweat.
              Yes, Brady, at 41, is a dinosaur. Looks like Brees, Rivers and BR are becoming extinct, and QBs like Goff, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, and Luck will be part of the wave of the future.

      2. Seb-define very specifically “homophobia”……….because in my experience of growing up 27 miles South of S.F., it sounds like a catch-all phrase. How convenient for the “loud ones”.

        1. Please recall the scene before the last Niner Super Bowl. A defensive back joked that they would not allow that kind of business in the locker room. That stirred up controversy, and people questioned taxpayer money going to such a discriminatory organization.
          Michael Sam was the last player who came out, but he was unofficially blackballed.
          How many NFL were gay? Very very few.
          Since you asked, there is also a religious aspect, with many players keeling after the games. Strongly conservative Christians do not embrace the LGBT community. In fact, they consider it an abomination.

      3. By the way, Sebs, you yourself are very, VERY selective on what you find “shameful”.

        Not once did you go on your soap-box about that poor gal who was murdered in S.F, just walking along the pier with her father. The gun she was shot with was stolen from a Sherriff’s cruiser, and the perpetrator’s fingerprints were all over the weapon.
        I only point this out because you ARE our resident bleeding heart………..

        1. I have stated that it was a terrible tragedy, that could have been prevented with better gun security.
          I also pointed out that he did not point the gun at her, but claimed it went off accidentally, and the shot ricocheted off the asphalt with tragic consequences. He certainly was not trying to rob her at gunpoint, so go ahead and vilify all immigrants, but conveniently forget all the home grown homicides.
          Paddock, the Las Vegas shooter, was an American citizen, but intentionally sprayed bullets into a music venue, killing 58 and creating 851 injuries. I do not hear you decrying gun violence and the need to get military weapons out of the hands of American civilians. That is the best way to reduce the carnage.
          Believe it or not, most illegal immigrants are the most law abiding people in the United States. Why? Because they do not want to get deported. All they have to do is work hard to fulfill the American Dream. Compared to where they are coming from, America is the Promised Land. They are happy to live here, abiding all laws and paying taxes. They are contributing members of society, and help make America be great. They do the jobs the anti immigrant crowd would refuse to do, so the hypocrisy is thick. The anti immigrant crowd is being used for nefarious purposes, and buying the lies and propaganda, hook, line and sinker. The lie about immigrants costing taxpayer money is one of the biggest lies of all. The Immigrants pay taxes for services they will never see, but many never complain, because they make in a month, what they would make back home in an entire year. Here, they have laws, rights, and clean water.
          Since you seem to want to engage me, I will stipulate that the anti immigrant faction see their good manufacturing jobs go overseas, and do not blame Big Business, the real culprits, but blame poor immigrants. They accuse the immigrants for crime and drugs when it is the white criminals and white demand for drugs that cause the most problems.They warn of an invasion of rapists, when all I see are women and children, striving to find a better life, fleeing for their lives.
          Being in the landscaping business, I will emphatically affirm that in the 80’s and 90’s that the Campesinos I had been associated with, were the hardest workers I knew, while the white workers were generally lazy, cried if they got a blister, did as little as possible, and complained the most. Several were just out of prison, and one day, they just did not show up.
          Bleeding heart? Yes, my heart bleeds for the poor, hungry, down trodden masses, yearning to be free. They are the ones who built America and made it great. Now we have a Commie lover, and Putin’s puppet, dragging America into the gutter. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave.

          1. Sebs-

            Your using ethnicity to differentiate again, implying yet once again that who we are comes from the tint of our flesh rather than the color of our hearts………..
            And this “Commie lover, Putins Pal” stuff………………you’ve gone off the rails. Take two LSD aspirin pills and call me in the morning.

            1. And if that were your little girl, you would sing a different tune and you would have gotten on your soap-box–as you do, only for specific things that fit your narrative.

              You need to bleed for all human suffering, Sebs-not just those that fit your story. I mean, if were going to hear your rants, then bleed for everyone.

            2. Saw, quit leading with your chin.
              YOU were the one bringing up ‘Commie loving’, not me. We all know who is licking Putin’s boots.
              I invoke Ronald Reagan, no bleeding heart in anybodies’ book. He said – ‘Mr Gorbachov, tear down this wall!’. Some one else is holding America hostage to build a wall.

  55. Hey conspiracy fans!! Must read!! Evidence!!

    From SB50 (no, no Roman numerals)…

    “Even though Peyton Manning had been sidelined and played like a shell of his former self throughout the 2015 season, he and the Denver Broncos secured a berth to play NFL Most Valuable Player Cam Newton and the Carolina Panthers at Super Bowl XL. Newton and the Panthers looked downright unbeatable for much of the season, but Denver’s defense dominated the day and guided the Broncos to an impressive 24-10 victory.

    The thought had by some conspiracy theorists, not to mention pockets of unhappy Carolina fans, is that the outcome of the game was fixed so that Manning, one of the league’s most beloved player, could retire as a champion.

    Head referee Clete Blakeman drew the ire of Panthers fans when his crew made several game-altering calls against the Panthers, such as ruling Jerricho Cotchery’s first quarter catch for a first down an incompletion (And then holding up the ruling despite a challenge and video evidence that Cotchery had caught the ball before going to the ground) and completely missing Broncos cornerback Aqib Talib going offsides on a Graham Gano field goal that the kicker ended up missing.

    Not long after the Super Bowl, it was reported the wife of a replay assistant for that contest attended the game as a Denver fan. Coincidence?”

    And there’s more!!

  56. 49ers are going to have their scouts attend all practice meetings during the Senior Bowl to give them an up close look at how each player learns and acts during meetings. Every little bit of info helps.

    One guy I am really looking forward to seeing and excited he was added to the Senior Bowl is Sutton Smith. A pity he was added to the North roster, not the South. He’s been added as a LB and will probably flit between LB and edge drills I suspect. I could see him being an excellent SAM for the 49ers.

    1. I saw that Scooter. You’ve been high on him for awhile so I’m glad he got the invite. Lot of talent to watch this week and I’m glad the Coaching staff gets to see them up close and personal.

      1. Yep. He needs to sit behind Thomas or another safety and learn the position. When I stated that I hope he plays better, I did not necessarily mean as a starter. 😉

  57. I think Josh Allen missed a big opportunity when he passed on the Senior Bowl. That was his golden chance to show how he competes against NFL bound talent. He also passed on the opportunity to work out and practice with both KS and Gruden, from top teams in in the draft.
    Sure hope he does not bail out on the Combine, or fail to perform all the drills.

    1. How many of the projected top 20 players (as of 1/21/19) are not participating in the Senior Bowl? One? Four? Nine?

  58. Annoying question…

    If the Senior Bowl squad coached by Shanahan and his staff wins, who gets the credit…. Just players? Players + Shanahan? Or just Shanahan?

    If the Shanahan-coached squad loses, who gets blamed…. Just players? Players + Shanahan? Or just Shanahan?

    1. I see a whole lot sarcasm flying off this question but the true answer is: None of the above. No one cares who wins the game. They are more interested in the practices.

      1. Oh I understand.

        Just anticipating some form of Shanahan shaming….unless his squad wins by 28+ points. Would be soooo funny.

  59. 10 ways – How to reform the officiating, to restore the integrity of the game.
    1. Recognize and acknowledge that there is a problem. Denying there is a problem will never solve the problem. Both championship games had egregious errors that affected the outcome of the games.
    2. Make the officiating a full time profession. Part time officials is nor working.
    3. With a 22 billion dollar business, they should find some one in the league smart enough who can put together a fair and equitable schedule. No more Sunday games with only 3 days rest before a Thursday night game. Those are inherently unfair to the traveling team. Use the bye week to help schedule 2 games within 3 weeks, so a TNF game will have 10 days between games.

    4. Reform the challenge system. make it more stream lined, and incorporate an agreed upon time limit.
    5. Put an official in the booth. Have a team representative from each side with him, so they can point out areas of dispute. Allow the booth official to be able to communicate with officials down on the field, so he can tell a ref to throw a flag or pick up the flag.
    6. Let the official in the booth handle the challenges. Install a bank of monitors set on loop so the official in the booth can see the play over and over again, from every angle. Then let the team representative be allowed to also challenge plays. However, if the team rep is wrong, he cannot challenge again for that half.
    7. Let every play be reviewable. Allow PI and every foul be reviewable. Allow forward progress to be reviewable. Let the overall goal to be to get the call right.
    8. Let even missed calls on the Challenge replay be flagged. Do not disallow fouls to go unpunished. Sometimes, not calling fouls can affect the outcome of the game.
    9. Set up a grading system for the refs, and refs that are grading out poorly should be phased out.
    10. Establish an NFL officiating academy. Only accept top rated college refs. That would weed out many wannabes. Top graded refs should be the only ones allowed to officiate the playoffs.

        1. More like the standard deviation from 100 is used to grade refs over a season. Greater weight applied to crucial calls that were missed, where crucial is defined as a call that reasonably impacted the result of the game. Other metrics like time to call penalties and so on should all contribute. Any ref that grades poorly across all of this is put on warning. Repeatedly being put on warning and the ref gets fired.

      1. I am not going to hold my breath. ;p
        However, Joe Theisman brought up the idea of a mulligan, when once a game, a coach can challenge and review any play.

  60. Claims that this was a rig job by the nFL are very tinfoil-hat tier to be honest. If it was, it was pretty poorly done, given how the saints should have won anyway. Why not rig the coin toss, so the Rams get the ball first?

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