I guess everyone saw the 49ers’ 20-12 win over the Cardinals coming, right?
At kickoff, we had the floundering, 5-9 Niners, losers of the last three in a row, and defeated in six of the previous seven. They were on a month-long camping trip to Arizona. They had so many injuries the team bus is an ambulance. They were dis-invited to the playoffs last week. They were basically playing for exercise.
Opposing them were the 8-6 Cardinals, previously known as the NFL’s Next Big Thing, but now considered more middle of the pack. Still, they were definitely in the playoff hunt, had an electric talent in QB Kyler Murray and motivation was expected to be sky-high because this was a clear, must-win game. Also, they’d already beaten SF, 24-20, in the first game of the season.
And the flounderers won.
Not only that, despite the closeness of the score, the Bay Area side clearly looked like the better team. It was definitely a wait-a-minute-here moment, where you have to question your pre-conceived perceptions. Because a lot of what happened came out of nowhere. For instance:
C.J. Beathard, a third-string quarterback who was so lightly regarded that Kyle Shanahan previously resisted putting him in the last two games, despite the fact that Nick Mullens was basically lighting himself on fire, started and threw three touchdown passes and no interceptions. Of course, he did.
Jeff Wilson, an undrafted and unheralded running back who went to college at North Texas (that’s a school, not a location) ran the ball 22 times. With the 49ers in 2019, he ran for a total of 105 yards in the entire regular season. In this game, he rushed for 183.
“It felt like every run was a gash,” Beathard said after the game.
Wilson also caught a touchdown pass. Tell me you had him on your fantasy team.
Ahkello Witherspoon, the maddeningly inconsistent cornerback voted most likely to be described as in Shanahan’s “doghouse,” made a game-saving interception in the end zone. And all over the Bay Area the Faithful turned to someone next to them and said, “You know if he can continue to play at this level . . . ”
It was just stuff you didn’t expect. Next, you’ll say that relentlessly efficient Robbie Gould missed three kicks. (He did. And one was an extra point.)
But let’s focus on the positive. How did this happen?
First, we have no idea. Teams rise up unexpectedly and win games like this. It happens every year. But there are always some factors that make it more likely.
First, the defense has come to take pride in itself as the strength of the team. For linebacker Fred Warner to make his first Pro Bowl, validates the effort. Warner also should send a thank you card to analyst Tony Romo. Back in October Romo called him the best middle linebacker in the game. Others took notice.
Also, the Robert Saleh show continues to earn raves. Saleh is TV’s hot sideline shot for every game, with the obligatory mention that he’s a prime candidate for a head coaching job. When his defense makes a play, and he’s seen leaping in the air on the sideline, the intensity increases and his stock goes up.
Commentator Matt Maiocco called Saturday’s game “a three-hour job interview,” which was well put.
It is also true that, although it seems eons ago, this is a team that was in the Super Bowl less than a year ago. A core of the roster played in critical games during the season and in the playoffs. That’s an experience that sticks with you. Granted, the team hasn’t won, but it still has players, and coaches, who know how to.
And, let’s just say it, the George Kittle effect is real. He appeared in his post-game interview in a garish “The Joker” T-shirt and took questions like a veteran improv performer. You can’t help but smile.
“Just having Kittle at practice is different,” Shanahan said. “It feels different.”
Limited to 28 snaps, he made the most of them. On his first play from scrimmage, he took out a defender’s legs with a low block that face-planted him. He also caught four passes for 92 yards, flashing that runaway cement truck running style. Again, you can’t help but smile.
As for Beathard, Shanahan has to start him against Seattle, right? At one time I was thinking of making the case that if Jimmy Garoppolo were healthy a final start might be worthwhile. If he played well it might silence some of his critics and if he didn’t . . . well, maybe we should take a second look.
But you can’t stop a story like this. You’ve got Beathard coming in, almost a year to the day since his brother Clay died in a stabbing incident outside a bar, and playing pretty darn well. He only threw 22 passes and for fewer than 200 yards, but no interceptions. He even took off on a couple of runs.
“I can’t imagine what C.J. and his family have been through,” Kittle said. “But I knew if he got a chance, he’d play inspired.”
C.J. deserves one more start.
Meanwhile, on the other sideline, we might want to dial down the hype-machine on Arizona QB Murray. We are once again hearing about how mobile quarterbacks are the hot new thing. And yes, Murray got away from the pass rush more than once to gain a first down.
But the 49ers appeared to be game-planning what other teams started doing with Colin Kaepernick. They tried to keep Murray from getting to the sideline. They funneled him back into the middle where the thumpers are. Murray had just over 70 yards, but was relatively contained.
Also, for all the highlight runs, a quarterback has to make smart throws at the right time. Murray’s interception in the last five minutes, trailing by just eight, was inexcusable.
First, he was in the red zone, at the 49ers’ 14. Also, it was second down, so if nothing was open throwing the ball away was definitely Plan B. And third, he launched the throw off his back foot toward a receiver who was closely covered by Witherspoon. The weather balloon of a pass never had a chance. Witherspoon gathered it in and the game essentially was over. That was as poor a throw as you are likely to see a professional make.
Just a reminder, 49er fans, sometimes even the hot, young quarterbacks have some growing to do. For those of you who want to replace Jimmy G. with some flashy QB who runs a 4.3 40. Be careful what you wish for.
TRUMPVIRUS DEATH TOLL
Mar 1 – 1 Dead
April 1 – 6,460 Dead
May 1 – 67,044 Dead
June 1 – 109,509 Dead
July 1 – 131,013 Dead
Aug 1 – 156,764 Dead
Sept 1 – 187,643 Dead
Oct 1 – 208,347 Dead
Nov 1 – 236,072 Dead
Nov 7 – 242,103 Dead
Dec 9 – 299,988 Dead
DEC 28 – 400,000+!!
As it stands today, Kyle Shanahan expects to have Garoppolo as his quarterback next season.
“Yes, I do believe Jimmy is going to be our quarterback next year,” Shanahan said.
Shanahan then was asked whether he could say with “100 percent certainty” that Garoppolo will have the job again in 2021.
“You can’t say anything with certainty,” Shanahan said, via Nick Wagoner of ESPN. “You don’t sit here and make promises on anything. When you build a football team, it’s your job to put the best team together year in and year out. People talk about Jimmy’s salary. Jimmy is like one of the middle quarterbacks in the league right now in terms of salary. That’s just how much they cost. So it’s not like it’s something ridiculous or anything like that, so we can work all that out. And, not to mention, look at Jimmy’s record when he’s been here. Jimmy you can win with. He’s proven that. He’s proven he’s a starting quarterback in this league. We had a couple of other guys who got opportunities this year who played like they have a chance at times to be starting quarterbacks, but they did play like backups overall. C.J. [Beathard] played like he has ability to be a starting quarterback two nights ago. He also did that in 2017 in a few games that we had with him. I remember him playing like that versus San Diego.
“But Jimmy, there’s a reason his record is what it is, and that’s why we paid for him to be our starting quarterback. And to think that that’s ridiculous with where his contract is, this isn’t like the first year. That’s how much quarterbacks cost in this league, and he’s right there. I don’t know the number, but I think it’s somewhere between 13th and 19th, so that’s nothing too big. That’s how much they cost. Now, you look into every avenue and you see if there’ something out there that can get you a ton better. That’s the same answer for every position, but you look at Jimmy, look what he’s done, look where he’s at financially, we better have a very good answer if you’re going to find something better than that. Jimmy has shown in one year that he’s the guy who can take us to the Super Bowl and I also think that Jimmy is going to get a lot better the more he plays.”
Garoppolo’s average of $27.5 million per season ranks 13th in the NFL, per overthecap.com. Garoppolo, 29, has two years remaining on the deal.
In 3 1/2 seasons in San Francisco, Garoppolo has started 30 games. He has missed 23 with injuries.
Garoppolo has a 22-8 record with a 98.1 passer rating.
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Fields is a much better passer than Murray.
Emotion is powerful fuel for a team that has nothing to play for other than each other. Let’s see how they do when they’re running on emotional fumes against the Seahawks….
You don’t play CJ against Seattle because the likelihood of him playing well is probably not gonna happen.
Let him take his AZ tape and shop it around the league and see if he can become a back up some where else.
I love the kid, his toughness and all, but if it wasn’t for the play calling, Kittle and the defense, CJB was nothing special.
As for Saleh, good luck in Detroit or Houston or Atlanta. Those 3rd round compensatory picks will be appreciated.
Prime,
Do you think, that if there are any well qualified minority candidates for the 9ers OC and DC positions that the team should jump to keep those 3rd round picks coming in. I believe they should pick the best candidate for the job but with all of the minority asst’s available it shouldn’t be too difficult a match.
Win-win. Absolutely right.
Do you think, that if there are any well qualified minority candidates for the 9ers OC and DC positions that the team should jump to keep those 3rd round picks coming in.
I’m not Prime, but I can try to answer your question Coach. I keep seeing DeMeco Ryan’s being listed as a potential replacement for Saleh, so the team would be replacing Saleh with another coach of a minority ethnic background therefore negating any reason to bring in a minority coach to interview. As for OC, I do not foresee Shanahan creating that position and simply filling the position that LaFleur would vacate from within the organization.
Ryans will be the next 49ers DC. Book it! Take it to the bank!
I agree.
You have absolutely no clue about football players. CJB won this last game, and you are upset to be proven wrong, again.
.
CJB earned another start with his competent play, and KS would not be insulting to CJB by benching him. Right now, CJB is the best QB to start for the 49ers, because he is the healthiest, and knows the playbook.
.
Rosen knows very little of the playbook, and could not possibly be totally in sync with his receivers like CJB is. You only want to bench CJB so Rosen can help the Niners tank. That is a loser’s mentality.
I did. I mentioned how the Niners might defeat the Cards.
.
‘Surmising about the Niners, they could beat the Cards, but CJB needs to have good ball security, and not make unforced errors…. Quick easy reads and the RB flaring out as a safety valve…. Getting Kittle back is huge. He will help with the blocking, and definitely help with the passing….KS needs to throw away the play sheet and go bold. Go for it. Do not settle for field goals. He has nothing to lose. If he can establish an early lead, he can let his defense seal the victory.’
After leaning into whisper to Lynch, “do whatever it takes, but get me Zach Wilson”, I excuse myself to use the head. It’s at that time OSU alumni, Donte Whitner pulls Lynch aside telling him, “you need to sell the farm for Fields”. Meanwhile over on the fence, AES has a look of apprehension in his steely gaze….
Raz,
I’ve like Zach for a while. I’ve never disparaged his talent. My concern has been the lower level of competition and his small upper body stature.
I happen to believe that these two concerns could have adverse results in the pro game.
Wilson was rarely put in any negative positions this year. His one game against Coastal Carolina didn’t show me that he could put the team on his back to garner a win.
Trey Lance could possibly fall on our lap, but I’m not completely sold on him either. If Shanahan is willing to spend 1-2 years of grooming him then I’d be OK with him. But at the moment, I don’t see Lance taking the reins right away.
Fields will be off the boards when our turn comes around.
For me, if the 49ers really want a QB in rd one it could likely come down between Trask and Mac Jones.
I would be happy with either, but I’m leaning more to Jones because he’s more mobile than Trask.
Too bad Penei Sewell will be gone before our pick. This guy is a 10-12 yr All-Pro. Heck, you and I might be able to run for a few yrds with this guy leading the way ?
Jerry Rice:
I went back and watched the Coastal Carolina game and Wilson played well. He was the only reason they were in that game. He made phenomenal throws all night. His receivers dropped balls and the team overall lacked focus. He also demonstrated his intangibles when it came to facing adversity under pressure. With only seconds left he was clutch in driving them down to within a yard of victory with a beautiful pass. I’m not sure why people question this kid, but I stand by my original assessment. Go get him by any means necessary!
Yeah, I didn’t understand why people were questioning him a little after that game. He played well against a team that actually made him uncomfortable. Got little help from his teammates.
Same could be said of Trask who kept battling back against the no.1 team in the country.
It makes me wonder how Wilson could have fared against Alabama.
I’d be interested in seeing where Wilson, Trask, Lance and Mac Jones are a few years into to their careers.
TBD
He was ok but kept in check for most of the night and still didn’t face much of a pass rush. More than a 3rd of his passing yards came on the final drive when CCU was playing prevent to run the clock. Up until that point he had the lowest production of his season by far. CCU also wasn’t some world beater. They were ranked 18th when he played them but Liberty beat them a few days ago so I think we can safely say they weren’t even a top 25 team overall.
I’m not trying to insult the guy or say he is a bad prospect. He has great physical skills and looks like he could be very good as a pro if he goes to the right team. My point is in order to be thought of as a franchise can’t miss player that you trade the farm for, you need more than a year of top level production and you need to have some wins over top competition. He doesn’t check either of those boxes. Right now, at least to me, he’s a physically gifted QB who is being pushed up the draft board because of the highlights he’s produced with all day to throw against mediocre competition. He could wind up being the next great young QB but he’s just as likely to be a bust. There is just not enough to go on imo.
Wilson has become the nfl mock draft outlets new darling.
This reminds me of players like Johnnie Manzel and others that have been labeled as can’t miss types.
And this occurs every year at pretty much any position.
I also like Wilson, but not to the extent of hollowing out our draft capital for the next couple of years.
I agree. It’s not that I don’t like Wilson he looks like a really good prospect. I just don’t see how anyone can be so sure he’s a franchise QB with so little to go on. No way I’d mortgage that much to find out.
Just to be clear. I said Goff would be a bust, and for what the Rams gave up for him, and then doubling down on a new contract; he is a millstone around the neck of McVay. Wilson is no Goff. That I can assure you….
What the hell is this can’t miss crap? Who started this.
Those guys come along once a decade and you don’t trade up for them… because you really can’t.
You want to get Andrew Luck and I have the number 1 pick? Fine, I’ll take your first round pick for the next 10 years.
Can’t miss qb prospects are extremely rare and if you won’t draft a qb because they are not “can’t miss” then you would pass on every great qb not named above… and god forbid someone else has the number one pick.
All that said, I wouldn’t do “whatever” it takes to get Wilson. There is a price range I would be willing to pay and then I am out. I think he is the type of qb who needs some training wheels at the beginning as are most.
I think Wilson could be a star in this offense.
Training wheels? We’ve got a vet on training wheels making $25 million.
I don’t believe it will cost as much to move up to #2 for Wilson as it did for the Rams to move up to #1 for Goff. Would this price be right or would you tap out?
This years 1st, the expected 3rd from Saleh’s departure, and this years 4th.
Next years 1st(2022)
Following years 2nd(2023)
Razor,
That would be an ok price for me.
Yes, I think he would need some training wheels at the beginning.
The one thing Jimmy was good at when healthy was getting rid of the ball and helping this Oline look better than it was.
Wilson was standing behind a fortress in BYU and never saw pressure… his internal clock will have to be sped up and that takes reps in the NFL. I imagine he will need about 2 seasons before he becomes truly comfortable with this.
That’s not a knock, it’s just based on my belief that with rookie qb’s (that don’t go to stacked teams with great olines) tend to struggle for a few years before they adjust and learn to make consistently positive plays.
In thinking a bit more about KS and what he likes in QBs, I’m a little surprised that he doesn’t seem to prefer dual-threat QBs given how he approaches the other skill positions on the offense. WRs that are also running backs, running backs that are WRs, TEs that have to be able to do it all and a fullback designated as an offensive weapon. In all of these skill positions he likes/prefers “hybrid” players, but it doesn’t seem to be that way at QB.
I’m assuming that by the term “dual threat” you are referring to QBs who are much a threat with their legs as they are with their arms.
Perhaps Kyle’s approach QBs is different from his approach to other skill positions is because the role of the QB is so very different. The primary role of the QB in Kyle’s offense is executing Kyle’s meticulously-crafted offense, not making off-schedule splash plays that have endeared Wilson and Mahomes. Sure, he’d like to have such a QB who are great at both, but Kyle’s priority is someone who plays within his system. It’s like the compromise that Kyle makes on tackles valuing run blocking over pass pro. Kyle values QBs who are comfortable with the play action game (snaps under certain, back to D), who have quick release and hang in the pocket and get the ball out to receivers in stride in short and intermediate distances. Deep pass opportunities are few and mostly from play action. So he’s not too concerned over a few missed deep passes. He wants a QB (like Ryan or Cousins in their earlier versions) who fully understands and buys into his offensive philosophy and is his field general in the huddle. Of course, certain qualities like good decision making and fast processing of D pre- and post-snap are desirable traits in all QBs including Kyle’s type.
IMO, most dual-threat QB will likely never develop into a franchise QB who will take the team deep into the playoffs year-after year. Currently I have Murray and Jackson in this group unless they can prove otherwise by elevating their pocket passing games. There are exceptions who improve dramatically their pocket passing because of correct mindset, talent and effort such as Josh Allen.
Over the last decade, I’ve heard Steve Young on KNBR discuss how difficult it was for him to get rid of his instinctual tendency to run out of the pocket once his first read was covered. There is that old story about Sid Gilman tying Young’s feet together so he could not run out of the pocket. This interview below from 2014 is a good read:
https://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2014/11/21/steve-young-and-the-art-of-molding-a-mobile-quarterback/
My definition of dual threat or pseudo dual-threat is a QB that if he threatens to run or there is a play called where that is an option, the defense takes it seriously. Nobody takes Tom Brady running seriously. So, my definition includes Mahomes, Wilson, and a lot of younger QBs. In short it’s a QB that is not a statue in a pocket, even if said QB can deftly maneuver within that pocket.
OTOH, I make a nuanced distinction between the following three:
Dual-threat QBs: QBs who are much a threat with their legs as they are with their arms. (from Kap and RG3 to Jackson and Murray). Large number of designed runs are included by OCs for them. They are limited passers.
The other two categories are pretty close:
Mobile QBs: QBs who are more pocket passers but will bail out of the pocket if the play breaks down and gain yards with their legs. May or may not keep looking for passing downfield when on the move. Newton, Wentz, Jones, Trubisky, etc., etc.
QBs with athletic instincts: I heard this term first used by Harbaugh to describe the QBs he looks for, e.g., Luck. They are all primarily pocket passers who try to improve their pocket movement skills. They tend to have their eyes downfield when on the move and use movement out of pocket primarily to buy time to throw. They can make effective running plays in a disciplined manner when required but they would rather not. Category includes Herbert, Watson, Mayfield.
These are distinctions of convenience for me based on the characteristics of the QBs for whom these words have been used. I’ve left out the older Hof QBs and young HoFers like Wilson and Mahomes who transcend categories.
Alright. My definition was simplistic and did have lots of shades of “gray”. Since you’ve presented some definitions and have an apparently easy day at work :), I’ll start using the term mobile QB or QB with athletic instincts.
Ha ha — I took the day off to deal with such an important issue. I got tired off having to use the same description for RG3 and Mahomes.
” I got tired off having to use the same description for RG3 and Mahomes.”
Agreed. Mahomes we want, RG3 not so much.
I don’t love the term athletic instincts, because athletic instincts by themselves are more or less useless in the absence of actual athletic ability. In other words, a QB can be athletic without athletic instincts, but they can’t really make use of their athletic instincts if they aren’t actually athletic from a physical standpoint.
It seems to me that instinctive and athletic are two entirely different things. “Instinctive” implies a natural mental ability, while “athletic” implies a physical ability.
I believe Garoppolo has solid athletic instincts. In fact, prior to his knee injury, his athletic instincts were one of his strengths. His mobility shined at the end of 2017, particularly in terms of navigating the pocket, and extending plays. He was never a guy who was a threat to run for 75 yards, but he was athletic enough that teams needed to respect his ability to tuck the football and pick up a first down with his legs. But this is no longer the case after the injury. His instincts haven’t left him, but his athleticism certainly has. Rarely is he even capable of escaping a collapsing pocket, and/or effectively rolling out of a the pocket to extend a play and buy time for his receivers to find a soft spot in the defense. And he seems to be even less capable of doing what we saw CJB do on Saturday – pick up significant yardage on a designed zone-read concept.
Bill Walsh on what he looks for in a quarterback:
“athletic instincts”
“It means he’s the best athlete in the entire high school. He could go make the basketball team, at least be the sixth man, he could make the soccer team, he can swim, he can field balls from center field, he can be a shortstop and could probably pitch on the baseball team”.
Very well said. Shanahan wants the QB to be the PG and distribute the football to the playmakers. That’s how he’s built his team with receivers who are RAC specialists and smaller OL who are better run blockers than pass blockers. That’s how his old man built his teams and it’s the type of roster Kyle has been the OC for before becoming the HC. We have seen numerous dual threat QB’s (my definition of this is a QB who relies on his legs as much or more than his arm) and I’ve never seen one who has had long term success without eventually becoming more of a pocket passer than a runner. Shanahan wants a QB that is accurate on the short to intermediate throws and doesn’t bail on the pocket when pressured. That is Garoppolo and the biggest reason why I don’t see them moving on.
Why do you think he was so high on Cousins? Because he had a big arm that was very accurate deep.
All you have to do is look at Shanhan’s history as an OC and HC to see the deep ball is not a large part of the offense. It’s play action, boots and short passes to playmakers. If he’s got a QB who is a good deep ball thrower, he will likely incorporate that a little more but the offense this team runs with JG is the Shanahan system.
Both Shanahan and Scangarello have flat out said the QB in the system is meant to be taking deep shots. It’s an offense built around explosive plays. The fact that with JG and Mullens they haven’t been is due to the players not taking them, and Shanahan modifying his play calling to get explosive plays in other ways. Which he has said he now realises is something he may need to do, but doesn’t mean it is his ideal scenario.
I didn’t say deep shots weren’t in the system. I said they are a small part of the system and they are. Most of the yards his offenses produce come from the running game and short to intermediate passes. It’s been that way every where he’s been.
It’s pretty difficult to take deep shots when your offensive line cannot pass protect.
Are we to believe a rookie QB is going to come in,learn Shanny’s system in an offseason, be able to make all the calls and win?
I highly doubt it.
We need to keep Garoppolo.
Agree with notanexpert. I don’t know what Scangarello has said but I have seen this question being brought up several times to Kyle. He gives the same answer. Explosive pass plays are definitely part of the playbook. I cannot recall every hearing that these explosive pass plays are deep passes. Most of the explosive plays are RAC by receivers schemed open. A few are deep passes play action passes (and rarer ones on extended bootlegs). Also, never does he say that 7-step drops are integral part of his offense.
I wonder if fans pine for a Coryell-Turner-Martz type passing offense which would be impossible with Kyle’s personnel because his athletic O linemen not named Williams cannot protect the pocket for 5+ seconds routinely. It does not matter how accurate and strong the QB’s is if the pocket collapses in 3-4 seconds. Receivers go to get downfield.
Cousins was masterfully accurate deep with a very strong arm. 59 mph velocity speed. The Shanahan’s hand picked him. Going downtown to Jackson and Garcon was really fun to watch. Stretch zone play action, and then pull it to go deep. That’s a very important component of Shanny’s offense that has been unavailable to him….
Sorry Mood, but every stop Kyle has been to before this got a lot of its explosive pass plays off deep shots. Yes, a lot were off play action; that is the foundation of his playbook, run to set up the pass.
At every previous stop his offense has averaged air yards per attempt over 7, and the best years (i.e. when his offenses were top rated units) they were above 8. The 2016 Falcons were over 10. The 49ers offense has consistently been below 7. It isn’t his normal mode of operation.
If arm strength and deep ball accuracy was what the Shannys were primarily looking for back in 2012, they could moved around to draft a HoF QB who was available just 14 spots higher at #88 :)
It’s so much fun to read old QB draft analysis. Here RG3 pick is rated A+ and Cousins pick is rated C:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1161610-washington-redskins-2012-draft-picks-results-analysis-and-grades
I’m not sure what source you are using for your stats Scooter McG but in looking at ESPN in regards to deep balls, Ryan attempted 65 of 31 to 40+ in 2016. Garoppolo attempted 52 in 2019. That is a difference of less than one attempt a game. There were years where Shanahan’s QB’s attempted 100+ of them, but that wasn’t when his system had it’s most success. The most successful season’s Shanahan has had offensively by far, were 2016 in Atlanta which was Ryan’s second full season playing in it and 2019 which was Garoppolo’s first full season of playing in it. The next closest one is RG3’s rookie season with a completely different system developed for him. The second best offensive output ever in his Coaching career came with JG at QB in his first full season as a starter. That is why I keep shaking my head at all the fans that think he wants to dump Garoppolo (not directed at you as you’ve explained your reasoning on this.)
I agree that AYPA has been lower in but that does not necessarily mean that Jimmy G is limiting Kyle. I don’t think those Air YPA numbers take into account the lack of high quality receivers like Jones and Johnson that Kyle had in places where he racked up those high numbers. Niners have had a half a year of Sanders and one of Aiyuk (latter without Jimmy G). Deebo’s role will not show up in AYPA. It also doesn’t account for the overall worse O lines (mostly because of injuries) than in Atlanta and Washington.
The fact that Jimmy G led the league in 2019 in deep passing efficiency even with the small number of passes tells me that given some stability with quality receivers and a decent O line that gets the run game going, he can most likely make the deep throws off play action. He did have a bad start to 2020 on deep passes but things went south pretty quickly this season on many fronts. Jimmy G is never going to be Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson running around making deep pinpoint passes when the pocket collapses. But he’s pretty serviceable for Kyle’s scheme, IMO.
“The fact that Jimmy G led the league in 2019 in deep passing efficiency even with the small number of passes.”
He had 8 passes of 30 yards or deeper, completed 3, and was consistently off target even on the completions. He was better between 20-30 yards, though again didn’t make a heap of them.
In 2017 his completion % on deep passes was very bad – again his accuracy deep was a problem.
Notanexpert, not sure about those stats from ESPN. Are you sure those aren’t completed passes, and based on all yards (air and YAC)? All other sources I have seen have far fewer passes being attempted of that depth.
This isn’t a case of the receivers not being capable. You just have to watch some breakdowns over on Niners Nation to see guys are getting open deep. The passes just aren’t being made.
I’m not sure why this is really a debate tbh. You don’t need stats to know JG doesn’t throw deep much and doesn’t do it accurately when he does. The eye test is sufficient. You also don’t need stats to know Shanahan in the past has had more deep shots being taken in his offenses – just need to have watched some of his offenses.
I’ll believe it when I see it. Consistent deep ball accuracy from Jimmy Garoppolo.
I get that you two don’t believe Jimmy is limiting the offense, but don’t take offense if I give Steve Young’s assessment just a little more weight when addressing the issue:
Scooter McG,
I don’t know honestly. I just looked at the splits and there is a category for each depth of pass. In the 31-40 range Ryan attempted 65 in 2016 while Garoppolo attempted 52 in 2019. If I’m reading it wrong I don’t know but it seems pretty straight forward. What source are you using?
I don’t disagree that his offense here has taken fewer deep shots. What I’m saying is it doesn’t matter as much as you think it does. As I said previously, the two best seasons Shanahan has ever had by far are the 2016 Falcons and the 2019 49ers. The deep ball was not a huge part of the offense in either one of those seasons. In 4 years he has not drafted a burner to take deep shots with. He has consistently drafted RAC receivers because that is the main component in his passing game.
I love Steve Young, one of my all time favorite players but the 49ers were the second best offense in football last year so Garoppolo can’t be holding it back that much.
Notanexpert, you and I combined don’t make a pimple on the ass of Young’s football acumen and insider network. Notafool called. Maybe you should answer it….
You are a funny guy now show me where I said I know more than Steve Young. I provided a fact that shows Garoppolo is good enough to to lead the second best offense in the league last year. He’s not perfect but very few are.
Scooter,
Despite being a small sample, 3 out of 8 (38%) is right at the average completion rate for passes above 30 yards
https://www.thespax.com/nfl/estimating-completion-probability-in-the-nfl/
Actually, he was top 10 in the NFL in that category, per PFF and Football Outsiders.
In 2017 he threw only 6 passes over 16 yards with 40% completion to the eminent receiving corps of Goodwin, Taylor, Bourne and Murphy in a brand new offense while being one of the most accurate QBs in the league and leading the team to 5-0 record.
The debate is whether he misses deep passes when Kyle’s scheme sets up those throws. Does he miss some receivers deep on, say, multi-level stretch schemes, and settle for receivers on short and intermediate routes. Absolutely. Will other QBs with similar inconsistent pass pro be able to do that under the same circumstances where the pocket collapses after 3 seconds? Questionable.
The debate is also about how much Kyle values deep passing. His actions show not so much. As notanexpert pointed out, if he really cared so much about it, he’d probably draft Ruggs or some or the burner. Kyle will probably move on from Jimmy G if he really cares so much about deep passing. We’ll see.
What’s the “but” for? Steve is extremely cerebral when it comes to the position. If he says Jimmy is holding back Shanny’s offense, who am I to but him?
He’s far from perfect. He’s average and last year is history. You can’t be what you were last year and expect to be successful. You have to keep evolving your game, and improving your skill. He didn’t look good this year before he got hurt. In fact, he looked like he regressed to me. Defenses have caught up to the smoke and mirrors. In the same way McVay is handcuffed by Goff, Shanny has been handcuffed by Jimmy….
The “but” is because I don’t blindly accept what someone says if the evidence doesn’t support it. The 49ers had the second best offense in football last season with JG at QB and went to a SB. If that is a limited offense I’m sure Shanahan can deal with it. The 49ers could have had Brady if they thought JG was limiting the offense and they didn’t sign him.
Garoppolo was healthy for 5 quarters this season and should have won both games. He wasn’t great against Arizona but wasn’t the reason they lost either. He played well enough to win and was having a great game the following week in NY before he suffered the high ankle sprain. I also disagree that defenses have caught up to the smoke and mirrors. The offenses problems were a lack of cohesion due to so many players missing time and if they can keep the majority of the starters on the field next season you’ll see them right back up where they were in 2019. Lastly you seem to have an obsession with the Rams and Goff especially. You mistakenly thought you and I had a conversation about him awhile back and now you have brought him up multiple times in the last two threads. What’s your deal with this guy?
Maybe you should blindfold yourself then because that “someone” happens to be an expert.
Goff is a system qb just like Jimmy.
Jimmy has been available 30% of his time spent here. That’s unacceptable. He’ll go down again next year wherever he plays, be it here or there….
I deal in facts not opinions. The facts are that Shanahan produced the second best offensive output of his career with JG at QB. By all reports they could have had Brady this offseason. Based on those facts I don’t buy the notion that Shanahan believes his offense is limited by JG. Still love Steve Young though.
You don’t seem to understand that is what Shanahan wants. He wants the QB to get the ball to the playmakers and JG does that. JG has also been successful in two different systems so I guess he’s a multiple system QB. I still don’t see how Goff relates to this but you go on letting him live in your head.
I don’t think your math is correct and he’s just as likely to start a full season as he is to get injured again as he’s done both.
Jimmy played like $hit before he got hurt. His long ball accuracy is $hit. His constitution is $hit. Time to look away from your Jimmy poster, turn and face the facts. The longer we stick with him, the further up $hit creek we’ll be without a paddle….
I have no poster of Garoppolo as I am not a teenage girl and as mentioned previously deal only in facts. Garoppolo was 33 of 49 for 390 yards and 4 TD passes with no picks when he was shut down with the first high ankle sprain. He played well enough to win the AZ game and without a blocked punt and getting stuffed on 4th down and 1 at the goal line, they do win that game. I get it, you are down on him and enamored with the idea of a shiny new toy but you are just ranting with baseless comments now.
You just don’t get it. The biggest competitive advantage a team can have in the NFL is a good quarterback on a rookie contract. Because the DL today are so athletic, it’s imperative that your quarterback can escape the pocket and make defenses pay, either by running or extending the play with his legs and then throwing downfield. Jimmy cannot do that, not to mention you cannot continue to pay $27 million to an injury prone quarterback….
Garoppolo can’t do it? Then how did he put up top ten numbers and win 15 games last year? Seriously it’s like you’ve completely wiped anything before this season out of your memory and have tunnel vision towards drafting a QB in a class that has little experience beyond Lawrence. You do realize in order for the QB on a rookie contract angle to work the QB has to work out right? The odds are that at least half of the 6 being viewed as first rounders are not going to work out and yet you have convinced yourself that dumping a proven winner and trading away multiple prime draft picks to take a gamble on one of them is the way to go. Thank F*cking Christ you are just some dude on a message board and not in charge of this teams personnel.
Looks like we will end up with pick 13-16 in this years draft. Too far to trade up for one of the top 2 QB’s and every QB after Wilson and Lawrence are gambles. We can get an outstanding O lineman in the mid 20’s and pick up an extra 2nd where we can draft both a pass rusher and CB. Keep an eye on Nick Starkel and Ian Book in the 4th round. Another sleeper is Cade Hall DE San Jose St.
Maybe the best term is not Dual Threat, but Mobile.
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Yes KS did not like Kaep, and preferred more of a pocket passer, but he seems to now Grok it. The league is evolving. KS is getting burned by QBs who can deliver from the pocket, but if the protection breaks down, the QB is not immobile. He is elusive enough to slide around in the pocket to buy time until a receiver is open. Then, if the opportunity presents itself, the QB is fast enough to break containment, and gain first down yardage with his legs, which ends in a feet first slide so he is untouched. That is what a Mobile QB is. Patrick Mahomes is a mobile QB. A Dual Threat QB like Lamar Jackson does produce offense, but the risk of injury may doom any chance for success. However, even in last season’s playoff, LJ did gain 500 yards, so he was productive, but his defense could not stop Henry.
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Will KS move on from JG? No. He preferred JG over Tom Brady, so he must think that JG is a long term foundation cornerstone. Now, all they need to do is trade back and give JG some pass protection. With the defense clicking on all cylinders, getting better play out of the O line should be their highest priority.
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The “grass is greener” complex — Matt Barrow’s take on the RVQ replacement for Jimmy G:
“I worry that anyone pining for Random Vet QB hasn’t watched RVQ over a full season and that if you asked RVQ’s more ardent followers about him they’d tell you he’s garbage. See, every quarterback not named Mahomes or Wilson has driven his fans bonkers at some point. Complaining about the hometown quarterback and wishing he’d get replaced by the guy a few towns over has become our national pastime. The awful things 49ers fans are saying about Garoppolo? In Detroit they say the same things about Stafford.”
https://theathletic.com/2284115/2020/12/25/49ers-2021-depth-chart-qb-trade-mailbag/
Not all fans are as astute as the ones found on this blog.
That’s most reassuring. We now need SRPD to value us a little more :)
Lol. That comment from Barrows describes the majority of fans on this site. We’ve seen so many clamoring for a rookie, vet from another team, backup from another team you name it. I chalk it up to the disappointment of a lost season when the expectations where high going in.
Preach it, Matt Barrows.
Dalton Miller has Wilson taken #2 by the J E T S. Here’s what he had to say about the BYU gunslinger:
Lmao! Kyle Crabbs and I are on the same page:
49ers
Zach Wilson
QB, BYU
TRADE: San Francisco trades 2021 1st & 2nd round picks, 2022 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks & 2023 3rd round pick to New York (Jets) for No. 2 overall
Full disclosure, this mock just dropped today and no sign of Jones or Trask in round 1.
Yes, let the Niners mortgage their future, so they can get the SECOND best QB in the draft? smh.
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Rams did that kind of deal, and ended up with Jared Goff. I bet they rue the day that happened.
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Barnwell thinks the Niners are patsies, and advocated the Niners trading for Wentz, before this giveaway to the Jets.
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Thankfully, JL is way too smart to be duped so horribly. They need draft picks. They should trade back to get 5 selections in the first 3 rounds.
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If anything, the Niners should trade back with the Jets. The Jets have 2 first round picks. The Jets could trade their 25th (?) pick and 34th pick (Second round), in order to move up around 12 spots to get the Niners first round pick. Moving back around 12 spots may be well worth garnering a second round pick. There will certainly be a quality OT available at 25.
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Why don’t we just give them 3 1sts while we’re at it? No need for day one and two picks if we get the savior Wilson.
Raz,
That smacks of absolute desperation.
I agree with Seb on this one. You can’t mortgage the next few years with what I call a Mike Ditka type deal.
If such a deal fails, it has the potential to set the team back 5-7 years.
I give an emphatic no!
Duly noted and recorded.
I have already covered the two reasons a team would trade up for a QB and that the 49ers do not fail into either category. The defense is the backbone of the team, so using their first round pick on an edge rusher or DB seems like the best move to make with their pick instead of mortgaging their future on a QB who most likely would not be a starter to open the season.
That’s the page you are on, 384? SMH, move over Mike Ditka. This makes your Jonesing for Solomon look absolutely brilliant. Even in hindsight.
There is close to a Zero percent chance that SF trades up for a QB. Way too many holes to fill with so many free agents and the cap dropping. I believe the Niners stumbled upon a very talented QB for just about for free. Josh Rosen is a very talented passer who got drafted just 2 years ago in a terrible situation. Just 23 years old. I’m willing to bet Kyle is very high on Rosen. Niners will not be drafting a QB in rnd 1. Wouldn’t surprise me if they waited until rnd 3. Rosen is a much better thrower then Mac Jones and Trask too. Niners got very lucky.
If he was so high on him why didn’t he get him before week 16?
Because it made no sense to bring in a 23 year old half way through the season and expect him to learn a system that quickly. They had already committed to Mullen’s and CJ. But expect Rosen to shine in the off season. JG, Rosen, Rookie… Thats what I see.
I agree that they won’t trade up for a QB and I really can’t figure out why this QB class is garnering so much excitement. There is one guy who looks like a can’t miss franchise QB. The rest are one year wonders or in the case of Fields, looked better last year than this year. I think this is a draft that could feature some major busts at the QB position because they are really being graded on one year of high level production and that production has come in a season completely thrown on it’s head by Covid 19.
It is garnering a lot of excitement because it is a really good class. Don’t let your desire for the team to stick with JG cloud your judgement on the QB class – it is one of the better looking groups of QBs to come out in some time.
Every QB class has its question marks. This one is no different. Of course some of these guys will be busts, whether it be due to talent, injury, dedication or situation they are drafted into. But from a pure talent perspective this group is right up there.
I see no Haskins in the top 4 qb’s. Fields, Wilson and Lance each come with their own questions but it’s not gonna take much to come up with the right answers given the potential of each prospect….
JG has nothing to do with my comment on the draft class and you got pretty bent out of shape when I told you what I thought you were thinking in regards to JG yet you are doing the same thing here. If you told me we could get Lawrence, I’d do it. My questions come into play when looking at the other consensus top ten picks like Fields, Wilson and Lance. We have one guy who has played against top competition and was a big time recruit out of HS in Fields. He looked good last year, not so good this year. We have Wilson who nobody was talking about until a few games into this season when he was putting up great numbers against mediocre opposition and Lance who started for one year in a lower conference. All of these guys are physically gifted and all have huge question marks which is more than usually is the case when this many QB’s are being touted as top ten picks. There aren’t many top ten picks with one year of production. I guess you could say Burrows, but he played two full years at an SEC school. To me it’s a lot of hype based on some great highlights against bad competition. At least Trask and Jones have played in the SEC even if it’s only one year for Jones.
The last two #1 overall picks only had one year of good production. Both are looking like pretty good pros.
It is very usual for all top 10 QBs to have question marks.
I disagree. Most top ten QB’s have a larger on field resume than some of these guys have. As for the last two #1 picks, I’d slow your roll a bit. It’s too early for Burrows and Murray is already showing signs that he may not be the answer long term in AZ.
Justin Fields will fall out of the top 10. The Niners should avoid him.
I would be really surprised, Prime if that were to happen. He’s a better passer than Murray and a more physical runner than Newton right now. The only thing that could derail him is if he were to go to a dysfunctional organization with no plan for him other than to throw him to the wolves….
I am not surprised. Changes happened in the college game over the last 10-15 years starting with the spread offense , and “basketball-on-grass”. Now combine that with the way the NFL game has changed in the last 5 years including better protection for QBs and receivers, and more wide-open offenses. This combination has led to excellent all-around high school athletes gravitating to the QB and receiver positions, and many of them making an impact as a rookie in the NFL. I think we’ll see more and more high-quality QBs and receivers in the upcoming drafts. Contrast that to the relative drought of good QBs in the decade starting from the late 90s.
I don’t doubt that. My point is there is huge hype for some of these guys with very little substance. I don’t know what the overall percentage is of pro success by QB’s who have one year of good College production, but I can’t imagine it’s very high.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30613088/washington-football-team-releases-qb-dwayne-haskins-sources-say
Quit parroting me.
If Shanahan’s presser today is anything to go by, JG will be the QB in 2021. Effectively he said that is what he currently expects unless a significant upgrade is available.
Unless they can get a Stafford( Not Likely), the QB room will consist of JG, Rosen and a rookie in the 2nd/Third rnd. Don’t sleep on Rosen being the QB that can really develop under Kyle. Very good tools and is very intelligent. Just a hunch.
After listening to what Shanahan said today, I don’t expect them to draft a QB at all. He said he wanted both Mullens and Beathard back and also said Garoppolo will be his starter next year in no uncertain terms. The wild card will be Rosen as mentioned. I would imagine they gave him some assurance that he will be given a chance to compete in the offseason to entice him to leave TB. They could still draft a QB of course as things change but I got the sense Shanahan likes his QB room and blames the overall performance on the injuries incurred all over the roster.
I really hope they don’t go into next year thinking Mullens/ Beathard are fine as the backups if JG gets hurt again.
Same.
I don’t either but he made it seem like that is what he wants. He pretty much said you can’t afford a backup that plays like a starter. That’s why I think Rosen may play a bigger role if he shows anything in practice.
Bingo! Rosen is a better talent then Mac Jones or Kyle Trask. Except he won’t cost them a late 1 or early 2nd rnd pick. I expect Rosen to impress in OTAs. It should also be noted, that Kyle said that he he scouted Rosen a lot coming out of college and he stated that he is incredibly intelligent. 6’4 220 with a first rnd arm talent and is apparently very intelligent. Sounds like the prototypical Kyle QB..
He hasn’t been the prototypical anything. Washed out of Arizona after one year. They’d seen enough. Same goes for Miami. He ends up on the Bucs prototypical practice squad and picked up as a last resort to an emergency situation. He’s been the prototypical bust! Now he’s gonna be the prototypical Kyle qb? C’mon man!
I agree with Razor. If they truly thought Rosen was anything worthwhile he would have been picked up the second time Jimmy got hurt.
And if Johnson doesn’t get Covid Rosen probably doesn’t become a Niner.
He was drafted under AZ when they had Steve Wilkes as there HC for one year. Behind the worst O line in league history according to analytics. At 21 years old was forced to start behind an awful team! Then was traded to the Miami Dolphins with an even worse roster. Have some prospective on the situations he was in. For any young QB it’s ALL about when and where they were drafted. Your making a mistake thinking this kid can’t be successful if he is properly groomed in a good environment with great coaching….
Less washed out than the new guy came in with a hard-on for a different guy. He could be serviceable, one way to find out.
Rosen went from playing behind the worst rated O line in his rookie year to playing behind the worst rated O line in a different team the next year. While he may turn out to be incapable of playing in the NFL, he hasn’t had a semblance of a fair chance to grow and show what he’s capable of. Just from a talent viewpoint, I’d rate him ahead of Beathard and definitely ahead of Mullens. Of course, there’s much more to being a successful backup than just talent — commitment, smarts, patience, hard work, etc.
Raw,
I like Rosen, but I believe that he takes too many chances with his passes.
When he was at UCLA, I was never crazy of how many times he tried forcing passes to his WRs when there were very tight windows.
But Rosen has a strong arm and is nimble enough to extend plays. If he is open and willing to being coached he may revive his career.
I’ve heard a lot of descriptions of Rosen, but nimble isn’t one of them. I googled statue and his picture came up.
We can’t go into the 2021 season with the same QB room. That would be a huge mistake.
By the way Rosen choice to sign with TB so he can go to a stable situation and learn behind the GOAT. Learn with work habits. Continued to turn down offers from several teams to be on there 53 man roster. Decided to leave bonus playoff money from TB by making the playoffs just to sign with SF for this year and the off season to compete for a job. I’m telling you right now, he has an opportunity to become one of the three QBs next year.
“ Bingo! Rosen is a better talent then Mac Jones or Kyle Trask”
What!!!!!!!!
You do realize that if Josh Rosen was in this draft class he would be rated better then Trask and Jones right? If you don’t, you should do some research on how highly regarded Rosen was in high school and at UCLA. Your boy Trask was a BACK UP in high school. Has a noodle arm and throws to WIDE OPEN WRs at Florida. The funny thing is that Rosen is 23 years old in the league for over 2 years. While Trask will turn 23 before he plays in an NFL game. But hey I guess only time will tell on what happens going forward. If the Niners are a smart organization they would focus on developing a first rnd talent that they essentially got for free instead of guys that will struggle to beat anyone out. Just my opinion.
NAE,
I would take everything a coach says regarding current players on their team the same way I would take comments regarding players on upcoming opponents teams. That is to say, with a major grain of salt… Mullens post Tommy John is unlikely to have the necessary arm strength for at least a year, but my guess is his NFL career is done.
100%
With JG injury history the backup QB better be ready to play, is why I think they will keep either Mullen or CJ. Rosen is of course the question mark…who knows how he will turn out.
I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else at this juncture.
Razor,
“I’ve heard a lot of descriptions of Rosen, but nimble isn’t one of them. I googled statue and his picture came up.”
Well, maybe it’s time to put nimble in the QB vernacular next to Dual-Threat and Mobile (lol).
Brady has the ability to slide in the pocket enough to avoid being sacked and get the pass off. I call that nimble.
The 49ers have JG as their starter, so they need a backup. Both Mullens and CJB will probably move on, since they are free agents. Mullens declared that he considers himself a starter, and CJB just dashed the hopes of all Cards fans. They just signed Rosen, a former top 10 QB, and he could sit behind JG and study hard, so he will not be thrown to the wolves, again.
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The Niners will possibly be out of the top 12 picks in this draft, so they would have to give up too much to move up. Draft selecting is an inexact science. It may be better to get many players, so if some of them do not pan out, some others may shine. That would be preferable to putting all their eggs in one basket, and if the egg is cracked, there is no backup available.
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Additionally, like AES says, the Niners have many needs, and will not be able to sign all of their free agents.
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I believe best strategy may be to allow Trent Williams to walk, and use that compensatory pick they get for him, to lock up an O lineman to a 4 year rookie contract. Trent Williams bet on himself, and his Pro Bowl nod just paid off, and he will make millions more.
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The good thing is- several teams will be looking to upgrade their QB position, so they may trade up with the Niners if the player they covet, may not last until they pick at their spot. Hopefully, the Niners trade back a couple times, garner second and third round picks, and Jamie Newman is available when the Niners use their third pick.
If we’re drafting in the 12-14 range and plan on keeping Garoppolo, then I say trade out for some more draft capital in the second and third rounds.
Oline, CB, DE, WR and a QB could help fill some gaps for the immediate future. And of course, FAc could also close some holes.
Glad Shanahan put the QB draft topic behind him. Now, we could focus on which players in the draft could fill some vital positions on the roster.
Very astute observation.
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My question is- which FAs do they re-sign? That will also determine which positions get drafted early.
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The top 12 I hope they re-sign –
Jaquiski Tartt
K’Waun Williams
Ronald Blair
Ben Garland
Kerry Hyder
Jason Verrett
Jeff Wilson
Daniel Brunskill
DJ Jones
Marcel Harris
JaMycal Hasty
Kevin Givens.
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Trent Williams and Juice will have money thrown at them. They may not be able to afford Sherman and Gould.
Yeah, I agree, if the plan is to keep JG then trading back makes a lot of sense this year.
I’ve been on that bus for a while now but discussing edge rushers and DBs is nowhere as much as fun as discussing QBs the Niners won’t be in a position (or will not move up) to draft!
Ha! You’re right Mood.
Cam’s last pass was a Kaep Special; a one hopper.
Kaep’s last play was going for a 2 point play, being stopped at the goal line, and using his supreme skills to score the game winning points.
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Cam will be remembered for dressing up for his interviews, perfectly defining an empty suit.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30595770/nfl-playoff-picture-2020-week-16-standings-bracket-scenarios-outlook-postseason#nfc
Is there a chance both LA and AZ miss the playoffs if Chicago wins and AZ beats LA?
Based on the link you posted, I would say no. The only teams mathematically in it are the Cowboys and Giants because NFC East.
I don’t think Shanahan saying he’d like both Mullens and CJ back next year means a whole lot. What else is he going to say? I’m convinced that JG will be back as he should be. I expect that Rosen will be on the roster. He has just too much talent to ignore and the upside just too great to not invest a year with him. I think that a lot of 1st round QB draft busts have more to do with poor coaching/ organization than lack of talent. Maybe Mullens or CJ will also be on the roster but not both in my opinion.
Maybe he thinks that neither will have an offer from any other team and will then sign non-guaranteed vet minimum deals to compete in camp with Rosen?
Aiyuk out for Sunday, He is this week’s victim of high ankle sprain grim reaper. I miss low ankle sprain :(
In other news, Trent Williams is also out and time to shop for another long snapper for this week since Pepper went on COVID list.
I was wrong. Both Aiyuk and Willis went down with HAS, which seems to have “spread” faster than COVID among the Niners (8 cases this season). I think we should replace the phrase “Achilles heel” with “high ankle sprain” ….
Don’t look for CJ to still be around next year. He’s playing much better in his 4th year than he did in his 2nd year, now that he knows the plays better and is getting better protection. KS referred to his play against Arizona as “perfect.” GMs around the NFL are watching, and many of them need a quarterback. They saw his 63 yard hail Mary completion, and had to be impressed. If CJ plays well against Seattle, Lynch’s phone will be ringing off the hook. Dismiss all speculations about whether CJ will be a 49er next season. He’ll be gone–the only question being how high a draft pick he’ll bring us, and what kind of a deal his agent can negotiate for him.
Last Sunday was a great opportunity for Buck to make a difference and close out the game after the Colts took a 24-3 lead against the Steelers. I believe they would have clinched a berth to the playoffs with a win. Instead the Steelers won 28-24. Buck had 2 tackles and no sacks. Buck is a very good and reliable player, and a great locker room presence. But he’s never been a difference maker in critical games, including the Super Bowl.
Maybe the Lynch critique for letting Buckner walk could be put to rest.
The defense missed it’s true leader this season. And that is Nick Bosa.
Hopefully we can also put to rest moving on from Jimmy but I doubt it.
Why? Because of what Shanny said? I’d remind viewers what he said about Buckner,
Then the Josh Rosen support from the Cardinals HC,
Agree. Kyle has always left the door open to moving on from any player if the opportunity emerges to improve the team at comparable cost. I’m betting that the opportunity is close to non-existent for 2021. Things could change dramatically for 2022.
Sure, I’ve been around long enough to know there’s such a thing as “coach speak.”
But while contract talks have started and draft charts are being assembled it’s imperative that the FO make these type of statements.
We won’t know until next year whether Shanahan’ words have any validation.
Well, Buck is a excellent player but I am not sure he is the dominant, game-changing player worth Aaron Donald money that some Niners fans made him out to be after he left for the Colts. Heck, based on how Niners effectively handled Donald, I am not sure any defensive tackle is worth Aaron Donald money since that positional threat may be schematically neutralized. Edge is where the money is best spent with defensive tackles putting just enough pressure to prevent the QB from moving up in the pocket to evade the edge rush.
Grant Cohen wrote a really stupid Article about Trent Willams implying he won’t sign with the niners because he turned down their first offer and wants to test the market. Of course he wants to text the market. Of course he turned down the first offer before the season was even over. He’s already said he would prefer to stay with the Niners and that they can’t pay top dollar. Grant thinks he’d be a schmuck to sign with the niners. I think he will sign but Grant is clearly an expert on being a schmuck.
From what I am seeing, the 49ers can rise as high as the 10th pick or as low as the 16th pick depending on the results from Week 17. Currently, the team sits at the 15th pick
If we’re at 10 would you trade this years 1st, the expected 3rd from Saleh’s departure, and this years 4th. Next years 1st(2022), and the following years 2nd(2023) to move up to #2?
There are not moving up for a QB!!!! Let it go.
No. I get why you and others would Razor, but to me that is too much draft capital to give up for a team that is tight against the cap and has at least two additional players currently on their rookie contract that will need to be paid during the next two off seasons. Having those picks might lessen the salary cap headache which is coming.
I don’t think either side would do that deal. Jets would want more than that and I can’t see the Niners trading that many picks to move up for a QB.
Jets will go after Wilson. The Darnold experiment is done in NY.
I don’t see any team swooping in to take Wilson from the Jets.
Exact same deal the Eagles negotiated with the Browns for Wentz.
You think for a second Trent Williams will resign long term if the intention was to dump JG for a rookie? ?… They will draft a QB no earlier then rnd 2. Even that is a stretch. They will attempt to trade for Stafford( Not Likely), if they can’t they will keep Jimmy for another year to see what this team can do together healthy. Moving up and giving up all those picks is what idiot organizations do like the Rams and Eagles just 3 years ago. You think they regret moving up for Wentz and Goff? Absolutely they do.
Well, Buck is a excellent player but I am not sure he is the dominant, game-changing player worth Aaron Donald money that some Niners fans made him out to be after he left for the Colts.
Currently Buckner’s stats place him as the second best DT in the league.
OK, for the sake of discussion lets say the 9ers pass on drafting a QB in the first 2 rounds. Is there a surprise QB in the 3rd thru 5th round? I have mentioned my dark horse candidates Ian Book (he reminds me of Jeff Garcia) and Nick Starkey (if he shines in his bowl game he might start moving up) Anyone else out there have a dark horse choice? I see the 9ers starting off next season with Jimmy G., Rosen, a draft pick and possibly CJB.
https://thetouchdown.co.uk/davis-mills-the-dark-horse-qb-of-the-2021-draft-class/
Not sure if he will declare for draft or return for another year.
Mood,
Mills is an interesting candidate other than he has the mobility of a sign post.
Should fit right into the QB room :)
But Coach, are you sure of his immobility? I have watched him and he seems to move around in the pocket fairly well. Even ran for a few first downs. Coming out of HS, he was rated as having above-average mobility. Recently, a columnist even mentioned his mobility as a strength
https://dallas-post.com/2020/10/31/qb-davis-mills-key-to-returning-to-relevance/
Staying local, Chris Dalman’s son, Drew, just declared for the draft. He was rated #1 center in Pac-12 by PFF. How about him in 4th or 5th round?
Trey Lance is a mobile QB who is fairly accurate, from what film I have seen of him. He also has decent size- 6’3″, 224 lbs. I think he was ranked 14th so if he falls to the Niners, he could be selected. Maybe they might trade JG back to Belichick for a couple first round picks, so they would pull the trigger on a QB in the first.
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He night benefit from sitting behind JG for a couple seasons, before competing for the starting job. Jamie Newman may also be considered.
Seb,
A number of NFL insiders have said the best the 9ers could get for JG is a 5th maybe a 4th round pick. JG is far to injury prone for the 9ers to get much more than that.
Old Coach, if Jamal Adams is worth 2 firsts and a third, JG is worth more, especially to BB, who will not re-sign Cam.
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Those who think that JG is worth only a 5th round pick want to fleece the Niners.
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In any event, I would start high and settle for less. Giving away a SB QB is not wise, especially when CJB and Rosen are the only present alternatives.
Yes, Old Coach. If Joe Montana had missed most of two seasons out of three, sitting in a box seat, laughing and scratching and eating popcorn, making $2 million per game, the Niners probably would have stuck with Joe. Jimmy Garoppolo and his sprained ankle should be sent packing. He didn’t show much at the beginning of the season, before being injured. Why take a chance on a less-than-elite quarterback?
Yes, Joe Montana sat out a while due to injury, and Young took his place. Joe got his job back, just like JG will. After that, there was quite a kerfluffle over that Montana/Young QB controversy.
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I will believe Kittle over the peanut gallery, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Because there is no sure fire elite quarterback in the draft that they have a chance at. You don’t drop a top 10 QB without assurance you can get somebody substantially better.
I would normally completely agree… but is he a top 10 qb? I think there are at least 16 teams that would take their current qb over Jimmy given the situation they are in.
The biggest issue with Jimmy is health, he has been scheduled to get significant playing time in 5 separate seasons, and he has gotten hurt in 3 of those seasons. At this point, based on past performance, the odds are greater that he will miss significant playing time than they are that he will make it through the season.
The odds are- he would be healthier, if he had decent pass protection.
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Maybe they should draft an O lineman in the first round, so he would not be bludgeoned and become injured.
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Any Niner QB will become injured behind their present line, and I am expecting that they will lose TW. Mullens became injured, CJB has taken some big hits.
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Any rookie QB would just get the Joe Burrow treatment, and results.
Seb,
I agree that the Oline is a major issue and have thought it was for some time.
I also wish they would address the Oline, but I think part of the argument for going with a rookie is that they would have more cap room to address such things.
I’ve run thought a lot of Mock simulations where SF kept Jimmy, traded back and drafted an Olineman (Humphrey or Meyers) at C, then a db and an Edge on Day 2. Having said that, prior to free agency it’s impossible to know what will be SF’s biggest holes.
You hear it year after year about how the team should draft IOL or CB in the first round. Never gonna happen, but that doesn’t stop ’em. The offensive line next year will be, Williams/Tomlinson/Brunskill/McKivitz/Glinch. I expect them to add IOL through the draft on day 3, CB on day 2. Probably toss in a bargain vet at both positions as well….
Trent Williams will have money be thrown at him. If you think they cannot afford JG, they certainly cannot afford TW.
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TW bet on himself, and it paid off, with his Pro Bowl nod.
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Drafting an O lineman in the first round is smart, if he can anchor the line for the next 10 years.
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McKivitz may only be a backup. They should draft or sign a center, and move Brunskill to RG.
Seb, drafting an OT in the first round is smart. Fixed it for ya.
I guarantee our offensive line will be better next year even though it’ll be the same faces.
There is no way that’s the starting O line going into next year. That same line minus Mckivtz who looks terrible the little he has played, destroyed two QBs. They will focus on signing a guy like Alex Mack in Free Agency. You cannot have Brunkskull be your starter there. Way too important of a position to put a guy at Center who has never played up until this year.
I think they’re perfectly happy with Brunskill at center, and they’ll want continuity there. Sure they could bring in Mack but that’s not going to be cheap. Obviously they like McKivitz a lot as he got the rare gold star next to his draft card. I’m pretty confident in him getting the job at RG, again keeping the continuity next to Brunskill and Glinch, and they’ll be better for it next year….
Kyle puts a premium on the Center position wherever he has coached. He will not go into the season with his 4th string Center as his starter. Not happening. Secondly I can careless if he got a pink star. He has looked attrious. You cannot have him and McGlinchey together again. They will invest in the Center position and kick Brunkskull at his much more natural position at RG. You cannot have 2 guys on the right side of the line that have been embarrassed all year. It can’t happen.
Razor, Shanahan has shown he believes in investing heavily at centre. Using a 1st/2nd rounder on the position wouldn’t surprise at all.
I think they like Brunskill for his versatility and believe he can start at OG, but I highly doubt he is what they want at centre long term. If he was it wouldn’t have taken them so long to move him there this year – they literally tried every other strategy first.
Matt Maiocco:
Scooter, not true. Brunskill has been cross training at center since the first year he got here because Benton liked his potential there.
Benton:
Feb/2020
Moving guys around on the offensive line is bad. I’m telling you guys, you may not like it but it’s gonna be Williams/Tomlinson/Brunskill/McKivitz/Glinch!
They have to improve the C position and possibly RG. There has been a lot of criticism of the QB play by both Garoppolo and Mullens, but much of that is a direct result of poor Oline play in the middle. It was that way last year after Richburg was injured and has continued throughout this season. McGlinchey has been inconsistent but is still one of the better run blocking OT’s in the game and needs to get stronger this offseason. I’d be shocked if they didn’t sign or draft a C/OG to at least compete with the current depth chart.
Of course. Who said they wouldn’t sign a cheap vet and draft a day 3 ol to throw into the competition? Nobody.
Shoup,
We don’t know what teams are thinking but based on his play last year, Garoppolo is top ten or very close to it. The numbers and the results back that up. I know the injury angle is the big focus right now, but I don’t think other teams would ignore a 19 start season with a SB appearance the way fans and media seem to be. If he had a chronic injury like a shoulder, back, soft tissue injuries etc. it would be a different story but he’s had two injuries that have resulted in missed time because they can’t be played through, at least not effectively. Even then he did come back in 3 weeks from the first high ankle sprain which is normally a 6-8 week recovery time.
“but based on his play last year, Garoppolo is top ten or very close to it.”
Based on his play last year, I don’t agree with this. He’s mid tier. The stats he produced were heavily inflated by the scheme. I imagine most NFL execs would recognise that too.
I’m not a big fan of Cousins, but over the past couple of years he has been better than JG. I struggle to put Cousins in the top 10.
“Scooter, not true. Brunskill has been cross training at center since the first year he got here because Benton liked his potential there.”
As I said, they like his versatility. But when push came to shove, he was literally their fifth choice centre option. They preferred to go with Grassu off the PS who they’d only just signed over Brunskill. That tells me all I need to know.
Scooter, opportunity has met valuable experience. Center isn’t a position you learn as the 5th option. I’ll be very surprised if he’s not the starting center next year….
The numbers and wins say different. I keep hearing you talk about how the scheme is responsible and yet they don’t win with anybody but Garoppolo so again you aren’t supported by the facts. You know what NFL execs like? Wins. Not to many QB’s have done that as often as Garoppolo has.
Lol you are reaching big time now. No he hasn’t and wins matter. As I said Garoppolo is top ten or close to it and the numbers and wins back it up.
Razor,
If they are happy with that Oline, then this team is going nowhere and the team is in denial about what they have.
That oline is neither good at run blocking or pass pro, it’s not good enough for Jimmie stay healthy and it would destroy the psyche any young developmental prospect.
Additionally, As everyone else has noted, the idea that SF wouldn’t invest on a Center is puzzling considering Kyle, has gone after a quality center at nearly every stop where he didn’t have one on the roster.
NotAnExpert,
Just so I have an understanding, Given the choice, who are all the qb’s you would take Jimmy over?
Shoup,
I look at it more in tiers. There are very few QB’s who stand out as elite top tier QB’s and then there are a large group that resides in the second tier on down. To me, JG is in the second tier after Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Watson, Brady and Wilson. After that it’s a group of good not great or unproven QB’s that can be ranked however you like. Personally I would rank the next group as follows: Ryan, Tannehill, Brees and then Garoppolo. Many on here and in general would argue against that but when I look at the production and win loss column that is how I see it. The ones that are hard to grade are Lamar Jackson, Murray and Herbert because they are more runner than passer or in Herberts case has put up great numbers but is early in his career and his team still lost a lot of games. What I can say with great confidence is Garoppolo is in the top 15 and if you just look at production when on the field and wins he is top ten.
Old Coach
Just out of curiosity, have you (or anyone else), seen or heard anything that would indicated BB has any interest in JG? Anyone that is, other than the THC saturated thing Seb hangs his hat on?
* Oh, sorry Seb, I forgot BB has you on speed dial and consults with you about his major decisions! RIGHT?
Desmond Ridder if he declares. He should probably go back to Cincinnati for another year, but if he enters a situation where he can sit and learn for a couple years, watch out.
After the top 6 QBs, I like Book and Ridder who have been mentioned by yourself and Mid. But the guy I have my eye on as a later round QB is Dustin Crum.
Gonna have to wait a year for Crum, Scooter.
IF they draft a QB in the first two rnds ( I don’t believe they draft one in rnd 1 early) I like Desmond Ridder in the second. But I think they bypass on a QB until rnd 3 or 4. Two names I like is Ian Book and Brock Purdy.
But I’m on the Josh Rosen train whether it stays on the track is another story. I just like the talent and fit. I could be wrong but I doubt it ?.
Nothing gets me as excited as drafting a backup.
That train hasn’t been on the right track and probably headed towards the wrong station.
Yeah, after the first 6 guys I think you have (depending on declaration) two guys you hope have potential to be starters in Ridder and Newman, then a bunch of backup calibre QBs.
And agree on Rosen. He has looked awful in the pros. Can blame the situation and that has been part of it, but part of it is just him being bad. Maybe he improves, but at this point anyone looking at Rosen as the long term answer is living on hope and prayer.
Isn’t he a senior?
Nevermind, just saw he has committed to returning in 2021.
Scooter,
Ridder is looking good from a raw skills stand point. He definitely has the legs and arm talent.
Kitties Voice when interviewed yesterday on KNBR for those that missed it:
“I can’t say enough about the leader Jimmy G is, and how his presence changes how the team is feeling, how the team is going about its business and how the team practices every day. Jimmy G is our quarterback, and moving forward he’s our quarterback, and that’s all I really have to say about it.
He continued saying he is just a TE but he said he has a voice. If you think for a second a rookie is going to start for this team in 2021 you are sadly mistaken!
This is another important thing the “anybody but Jimmy” fans overlook. He’s great in the locker room and his teammates love him. One of the keys to this teams success is the closeness of the players and Coaches. They all genuinely like and want to play for each other.
Noone has questioned his leadership except for his lapse in judgement with the porn star.
Raz,
Jimmy Crack Porn, and I don’t care. As long as he can stay on the field and give us the best chance at winning.
Some have said that Rosen will be back next year, but I don’t see it like that. Rosen has only proven one thing in his career, and that is that he’s not a starter.
Three teams have given up on Rosen in his early career thus far. That says a bus load of where he stands among the NFL community.
49ers will draft a QB in rd two, especially if they can trade out of the first rd to garner another pick in the second rd.
Yea, nobody is saying someone cares about the porn star but no one doesn’t think it showed poor judgement on Jimmy’s part either.
Sure they can take a longer shot in round 2 and hope it rolls into the hole. It’s a strategy. Wouldn’t be my strategy but that’s why I’m here and they’re where they are making all the decisions. We’ll see how it all comes together and then how it ultimately shakes out. They could move up for the 4th quarterback, whether it’s Fields, Wilson or Lance, relatively cheaply and groom the rookie for a year while rebuilding Jimmy’s trade value….
Wilson, Fields and Lance could conceivably be gone by the time the 49ers pick, which means that they would need to make some outlandish moves to acquire one of these guys except for possibly Lance.
Seems like the best second tier QBs are Mac Jones and Kyle Trask. These guys seem more likely to be available if the 49ers pick in the 13-15 range.
The Trask media following has lost some steam over the last couple of weeks which could drop him to the second rd. If this scenario takes place, a second pick in the 2nd rd could possibly put the team in a reasonable position to draft Trask. Trask would be a bonanza in the 2nd rd.
Trading up from 16 to 10 wouldn’t be an outlandish move for Lance. I don’t think it would be too costly either.
If 4 QB’s go before the Niners pick there will be a very good prospect at a greater need position for them or they can trade down to get that extra pick you mentioned and take another DE/CB/OL in any order. I really don’t get the impression they are going to draft a QB judging by what has been said and the needs they have elsewhere. I have no clue of course and could easily be wrong on that, but I get the feeling they are going to go with Garoppolo, Rosen and Beathard and bring in a late round or UDFA QB like they did with Mullens a few years ago.
If they go into next season with Jimmy, Josh and CJ and an UDFA they are fools! That would be one of the dumbest moves ever by these guys. You’ve got the best qb class in a decade. If the top 4 are not available, then yes they take the next best qb on their list in round 2 and take the best edge rusher in round 1….
How disappointing would it be to have 2021 cratered by JG getting injured again and not having a viable backup… they really need to draft a QB reasonably high.
Not quite as stupid as bringing back the exact same O line that got 2 QBs killed. One may never play again because he has to get Tommy John Surgery. JG, Rosen, CJ and a rookie in rnds 2-4. Thats how I read the room. By the way Rosen is VERY talented. This ain’t CJ or Mullen’s tool set. He just needs proper development for this level. Kyle will provide that. Get the O line better or else it don’t matter who you have at QB. That’s the biggest weakness on the team.
Not nearly as foolish as going into next season with a rookie, Beathard and whoever they can get to sign for 10 mill to be a place holder while also trading a bevy of picks away. And best QB class in a decade? Man you are way out on that hyperbole branch.
I’d be fine with a QB being picked in the second round as I’ve said previously, but based on what has been said and the fact they brought Rosen in, I have a feeling they won’t.
“Some have said that Rosen will be back next year, but I don’t see it like that. Rosen has only proven one thing in his career, and that is that he’s not a starter.”
Did you say the same about Alex after his first year on a horrible team with a horrible coach? I certainly do not agree that it is proven yet that Rosen is not a starter.
Maybe he should have paid her 130K out of that big contact of his to lay low :D
How can the Niners defeat the Seahawks? Well, the Seahawks are not going to get the first round bye, so they may rest players who are nicked up. Even if they do defeat the Niners, the Saints will probably defeat the Panthers, and still lock up that second seed for the Saints.
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The Niners want to play spoilers, and keep the Seahawks from a second seed.
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The Niner defense is keeping them in games, so the offense just needs to be efficient, and have good ball security. I hope CJB has a terrific game, and scores 3 TDs. I hope Wilson (Jeff) runs for over 100 yards. I hope Gould has amnesia about last game, and returns to form.
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It will be difficult, but I think KS can out coach PC.
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It’s wild to think that despite the increase in playoff teams an 11-5 team may miss out on the playoffs in the AFC (at worst a 10 win team will), while in the NFC a 6-win team may win a division and the last wild card spot may go to an 8 win team.
That’s a testament to how strong the AFC is compared to the NFC this year. Like I said a while back, the AFC Championship is going to be the Super Bowl match-up, while the actual Super Bowl is probably going to be a debacle.
I’m going to be cheering for the Bills to win their first SB!
Bills Mafia baby!
The 49ers ought to be taking a chance on Dwayne Haskins.
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He went unclaimed through waivers.
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IMHO he can be the next Kaep. Not quite as polished but same upside.
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Lynch would be foolish to pass up this chance.
Please disregard this catfish. I would have touted Kaep over Haskins.
Change your avatar idiot!
Perusing the top 100 draft prospects, it looks like there are 10 to 13 OL prospects in the first 40 ranked players.
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The Niners will be able to trade back a couple times, and still get a starter for the O line.
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Since it is a deep position in the draft, the Niners may decide to spend their first pick on an edge rusher, then select an O lineman in the second round. I am hoping that they re-sign Verrett and K’Waun Williams, so drafting a CB could wait until the third round.
Gould reups for two years @ $3.65 million per year.
The $7.25M is full guaranteed. Probably move some of the money to 2022 as signing bonus for added cap relief in 2021….
This tells me they are gonna keep the gang together and give this group another run before a rebuild.
It tells me that they believe having a clutch kicker is an extremely important component to winning.
Lombardi: “Gould’s new deal has presumably freed up at least a couple million dollars in 2021 and brought the 49ers under $155 million in total liabilities for the time being.”
Interesting.
$30M cleared so far on the expected cap of $185M.
Gould missed 3 kicks last game. That is hardly clutch.
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This timing is suspect, after his poor performance last game. They should have waited, and gotten him for less. Free agency starts in April, why the hurry?
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I would rather they sign a FA kicker who would cost half as much as Gould, but also be able to kick 65 yard field goals.
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Paraag strikes again.
Excellent Tanier as usual.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/30/sports/football/quarterback-keeper-jets-browns-and-bears-face-contract-decisions.html
Mayfield at 40 per year, Darnold at 25 and you guys are griping about JG’s 24?
Excellent article. Another point that seems to get missed or ignored. Garoppolo is now in the middle of the pack as far as contract totals. If you cut him or trade him you are still going to have to pay any vet you bring in at least half or more of what he is on the books for and won’t get anywhere near the results.
Think I pointed out that he’s 13th on the QB pay chart.
The market price for a serviceable starting QB is now in the range of $25-$30M. A surefire franchise QB’s market price going forward would be in the range of $35M-$40M. Niners fans whining about Jimmy G’s salary would be delusional to think he’s overpaid. There is not reason to believe that he is going to be injured every season.
Exactly!
Has anyone heard anything about Dee Ford? Is his career over or is he projected as returning next year?
Trask throws a p6 and is down by two TDs. Start the adversity meter.
Good opportunity to see what he’s made of.
Trash like I’ve said all along. Go ahead and take him in round 2. Good luck with that.
Ouch! Trask is quickly descending to the 3rd rd. 3 Int’s in the first half.
No bueno
Oof, Trask. I know it is hard without his weapons, but man, some of these throws have been brutal.
60 minutes boys, 60 minutes!
You can pay me now or pay me later!
2 of those were the type throws that worried me.
Those out patterns are just not in his bag… I thought before this game that his arm was about the same as Mullens (pre-injury) and that is a major issue as it eliminates too much of the field for NFL defenses. There just isn’t enough upside for me to draft him as more than a future backup.
*Note* the one over the Middle I am not putting on him.
Trask is who you and I thought he was. Mullens’ arm with a Jimmy brain.
But don’t forget Trask is part of the best QB class in a decade.
Some like Trask. Some don’t. I never have. Rest your head easy on your Jimmy pillowcase pillow.
Like I said Rosen is a much better talent then Trask. Develop Rosen who is the same age with a stronger arm and is very smart. Get a Desmond Ridder or Brock Purdy latter.
Lawrence and Wilson are the only two QB’s worth a first or second round pick. The 49ers are absolutely not going to trade up for either of them. Fields, Trask Jones and Lance are not the answer. Can we please stop talking about drafting a QB in the first 2 rounds. Say we stay at 13 or trade back to get an extra 2nd round pick, who will we draft then? A pass rusher at 13 and a CB or OL in the 2nd or 3rd round. Possibly a trade back for an extra 2nd and an OL in the later first with a CB and pass rusher in the 2nd. How bout some names? what pass rusher will be available at 13 or which OL in the 20’s with a pass rusher and CB in the 2nd round. Our QB’s will be JG, Rosen and a 3rd day QB draft pick.
Kyle has made it clear that Jimmy will be the QB next year and why wouldn’t he be since last year he was top 5 or top 10 in most statistics and is relatively cheap. But then I don’t expect the JG haters to stop hoping. I agree that Jimmy and Rosen will be on the roster next year but I think CJ might be also.
The QB discussion isn’t going away OC, best get used to it. No matter what they do with JG they need one. Rosen is not the answer at backup.
1st or 2nd round? That is a bit rough don’t you think?
I would take Lance without much hesitation should he fall.
I don’t really want to trade away everything for Wilson but if he were to fall into a decent range by some miracle I would move up.
If either of those don’t happen, then I would look to trade back and target Humphrey or Meyers at C, I also really like Ojulari out of UGA at edge.
Barring a draft day gas mask, medical red flags or character concerns, Lance would seem to be the most likely of the four to slide. He has the least amount of starts, which is a huge red flag but I think if you have the kind of structure in place that the 49ers have and a plan to let him sit behind Garoppolo at least until the trade deadline to see how he comes along; it would be extremely concerning to me if Shanny passed on a talent like Lance….
We are in agreement here and if he or Wilson (highly unlikely) were to somehow fall within reasonable range I would be looking to move up.
Scooter McG is right OldCoach this QB talk isn’t going away no matter what happens. There are too many people who want to believe the Niners are going to show JG the door and take a shot with a rookie. No matter what Shanahan or Lynch says – Lynch just said yesterday yet again that Garoppolo was their guy – there will be people who latch on to the wording to create hope that they these men are secretly planning Garoppolo’s exit and their big move up the draft for the next great Niner QB.
You don’t know that. A 23 year year old former first rounder with very good tools can’t be a quality back up? I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
The thing about Rosen is that when you’ve been on 3 teams already working on your 4th, chances are it’s not your talent anymore, it’s getting the reps to prove yourself.
He will have to be near perfect in OTA’s and training camp just to get a chance at a back up.
He’s looked bad every stop so far in the NFL. Can’t blame that just on the situation. Add that to a college career where he never really improved much from his freshman year… in no way would I be heading into next year thinking he’s an answer. Happy to give him a shot as he does have talent, but can’t count on him and still need to address the position.
He had one year in both AZ and Miami. He was in a bad situation in AZ with an OC who was fired part way through his rookie season and a first year HC also fired after the season. He wasn’t great but showed some good things in a few games that year. Miami was a disaster but again he didn’t get much of a chance and was in a bad situation with a team that traded most of it’s top players away and tanked for most of the year. That’s all we have to go on other than he chose to sign with TB to work with TB and Arians and turned down some offers to go to other teams until the Niners called. The fact he gave up a chance at some playoff money and possibly getting a chance to compete with TB next year leads me to believe the Niners offered him more than a chance at two weeks on their active roster. My guess is they told him they’d bring him back to compete for a spot next season but I guess we’ll see soon enough. When I compare him to this draft class I think he’s better than most of them based on his College play and experience but that is something that won’t be determined for awhile.
Bingo! Not hard to see the thought process. It does exist that they do still draft a QB but it won’t be early in rnd 1. Maybe they jump back into the first for a guy like Ridder. Or they wait in rnd 2-3 for a Mond. That’s what a smart organization does.
Ridder in the 1st? Ha!
I wouldn’t touch Mond in round 4 let alone 2 or 3!
They said the same thing about Mahomes and Love coming out. It takes one team that really loves them. That want to get a 5th year option. Riddler has all the tools to be a very good QB at the next level. Who knows what Kyle is looking for. I’m not gonna pretend to know that. I’m also smart enough to know that he won’t give up his next 2 drafts for a kid from BYU that has played NO ONE in his entire career and who just a year ago had a shoulder problem which required surgery on his throwing shoulder. I will give you more details about your boy Wilson. He has ADHD… Which I know your smart enough to understand the severity of that. My 7 year old son has it. He is very difficult to deal with if he misses ONE day of his medication. Now it’s manageable but it requires him to take Adderal just so he can get through school. I’m not here saying that Wilson can’t be a very successful QB at the next Level. I’m saying these minor Details are very important. Especially when your talking about a turning the keys to a Franchise with a rookie QB. I wish him nothing but the best and IF SF identified him as the next great QB, I will support him even more then someone else just because I know the struggle him and his family dealt with growing up. Whatever Kyle decides he better get it right.
That BYU kid sure throws a mean football!!!!!!!!!
*Meant to be sung to Elton’s Pinball Wizard?
?… I think we all just want Kyle to get it right. I hope for our sake and his he does.
Regarding your caution about his ADHD, it’s been my understanding that it only becomes a problem when you’re not interested in the topic. I don’t see it as a problem wrt football because he loves it. Looking at this list, Walt Disney, Albert Einstein, Michael Jordan, Sir Richard Branson, John F. Kennedy, all had ADHD and I feel like it’s more a gift than burden as far as football is concerned for, Zach because that’s probably where most of his creativity and instincts come from when he steps onto that football field….
That exactly could be the case. I hope so Razor.
I agree ? with that Scooter. I’m just making the point it makes a lot more sense to invest in developing a talent like Rosen then Nick Mullen’s or CJ. Yes they do need to draft someone in rnds 2-4 imo. That’s what I have been saying.
raw,
I felt when they signed Rosen that it was more out of desperation vs. long term interest.
Given the fact that so many of our players have been out due to injury or covid, it was imperative to sign Rosen with both Jimmy and Nick sidelined.
If Rosen is willing to come back on the cheap then I say give him a TC and preseason to prove himself.
Regarding the starting O-line for 2021, has anybody heard what Richburg’s status is?
I’ve seen projected lineups for the line from fans, as well as analysts, and his name is hardly brought up.
Is he being released? ??♂️
Chris,
It’s almost guaranteed he will not be brought back. He is coming off a patellar tendon injury and according to a study referenced on https://sportsnaut.com, only 50% of players that suffer this injury ever return to the NFL. Of those that return, the vast majority suffer a marked decrease in playing time over the next 3 years.
Given that he is 29, has suffered multiple injuries, and would save the team nearly 4,896,349 in cap space… I don’t know how they could bring him back.
Shoup,
Thanks for cap savings info. I was hoping there wasn’t going to be a large amount of dead money.
With that being said, I agree with you; Richburg is as good as gone.
Using TDN for my “Keeping Jimmy Mock”,
I traded out of the first round to pick up 2 seconds and moved around to pick up multiple day 2 picks.
My draft went as follows.
pick – selection
40 – Center – Josh Meyers – Replacement for Richburg, he’s a center that make the necessary reach blocks and is solid in pass pro.
45 – Edge – Azeez Ojulari – Replacement for Ford he screams off the edge.
52 – CB – Tyson Campbell – Replacement for Uncle Sherm with major upside.
76 – QB – Mac Jones – Jimmy’s backup, he makes multiple read throws and is very accurate. (He Never runs, is he athletic enough?)
83 – OT – Tevin Jenkins – An athletic OT who is nasty, a backup plan in case Mount McGlinchey stays Big Slim.
113 – S – Richie Grant – Here I debated between him and Ross to replace Bourne but decided he’s a guy that could slide in next to Ward and Succeed.
193 – Edge – Patrick Johnson – He’s a versatile rusher who has has the speed to threaten the edge but can also drop into coverage. Will he be able to handle the step up in competition? He has the necessary athletic traits.
This secondary draft class isn’t all that. Weak at the top and weak depth.
Ben Rolfe,
ALEXIS MANSANAREZ,
One of my dark horse QB’s is off the board. Nick Starkel S.J. St. is using the “covid” rule and returning to school for another year. Keep an eye on this kid next year.
We will not know how the draft order will be, so until the draft order is set, I have refrained from surmising too much about prospects.
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Compensatory picks will factor in, too. Guess they may get a 5th round pick for Emmanuel Sanders. If/when Saleh leaves, that third round pick is as good as gold, even if it is around pick number 100.
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I have been perusing the trade value chart, and see that a few teams have multiple first round picks. Miami, Jax and NYJ all have 2 first and second round picks. They may be good targets for a trade back scenario. The Vikings have additional third, fourth and fifth round picks, so they may want to bundle some to move up. The Patriots may get compensatory picks, so they may be a good trade partner, with lots of trade capital.
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Right now, I am wondering about this upcoming game. Looks like there are many Niner players who will not play.
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Signing Gould to a 2 year extension, then putting him on the Covid list, is a head scratcher.
It used to be the backup QB was the ignorant fan’s favorite player. Now it’s the QB not even on the team. Or the QB not even in the league yet.
What a year. Happy new year Faithful.
https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/12/31/22208191/shanahan-on-losing-d-j-reed-thats-something-i-wish-we-could-have-had-back
I brought this up a few days ago and now we here KS lamenting the move. I won’t pretend to understand all of the issues with regards to how many could be on the PUP, but they should have kept Reed and let Witherspoon go to the PS, if possible (not sure), or even cut him. Also, seems strange to me that the 49ers didn’t know if Reed could play at all this year but once he got to Seattle he was ready to play by Game 8 (not sure how many weeks that was). That seems like a pretty big miss from the medical/training staff. Reed has played very well for the Squawks and locked down an “outside” corner position, which I don’t believe he ever played for the 49ers. It seems to me that somewhere in the organization there is some really bad evaluation of talent or perhaps pride in draft picks (AW in the 3rd) that is keeping some players from legitimately winning a spot. I don’t know, I’d be curious to know what others think on this.
The person(s) in the organization who traded away our 13th pick to Tampa Bay for Kinlaw blew it. Tampa Bay grabbed Tristan Wirfs to protect Tom Brady’s right side. Wirfs (no. 78 if you want to watch him operate) has given up only 1 sack. The site I read said Wirfs should have been the number 1 tackle off the board.
Does anyone really believe that Wilson wouldn’t have hit Sanders in the endzone?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1330298596097454081
He wouldn’t have had all that time to set and make the throw to Sanders. Most of Wilson’s highlights are the same. Clean pocket, lots of time to make throws. That wouldn’t be the case here.
He’s got the arm strength to put it on him without a clean pocket.
Yeah, give Garoppolo a nice pocket like Wilson had with no one in his face and Jimmy makes that throw 10 times out of 10.
Why, cuz he’s so Eucking accurate? Give me a break!
There’s around 30 QBs that make that throw with the time Wilson had.
There’s no magic in Wilson’s throw.
Don’t take my word for it. Steve Young thinks there’s magic in those throws by Wilson. He knows a little something about quarterbacks….
Why, cuz he had 6′ 6″ 310 lbs Chris Jones in his face on that throw.
No one knows how Wilson would have done in that scenario. But it certainly wasn’t a comfy pocket shown in your video.
Wilson’s deep ball accuracy is outstanding. Jimmy’s not so much. In fact, ever since his injury his accuracy has been terrible at all levels. Putting our receivers in harms way with such errant throws. Just think of the RAC these receivers could get with an accurate ball they can catch in stride!
That’s news to me. I have to admit that I’ve never heard any of his receivers make that claim.
In fact, his best receiver George Kittle would like Garoppolo to be his QB next year. If I had a QB putting me in harms way when I go for a pass, I doubt I’d take Kittle’ position.
Are you telling me that you haven’t noticed his passes sailing high or behind his intended receivers? Lmao. I can recall off the top of my head seeing Kittle take an unnecessary hit to his knee because of Jimmy’s inaccuracy.
If you cannot throw an accurate deep ball in the NFL your chances of winning are greatly diminished.
I do, but that’s only because throws of that length are very low percentage. I’ve Brady, Mahomes and Rodgers and yes even Wilson miss on throws like that.
We all see the highlights but for every deep ball completed there are about 2 that are missed, they just don’t make the highlight reel.
But he does have a live arm, it’s really improved and it’s impressive.
Who knows really, but it appears he was injured enough that they didn’t see him being able to play for awhile and thought they could resign him to the practice roster after cutting him with an injury designation. It didn’t work out unfortunately and it would have been nice to have a young guy they drafted and invested time into but cutting Witherspoon at the time didn’t make a lot of sense considering they wouldn’t have Reed for half the season at best. Somebody has to be available to play right?
I’m more irritated by the fact that the 49ers seemed to think the season was over for Reed, yet when he gets to the Seahags he is only out for 8 games and able to play half of the regular season. There’s been questioning of the high number of injuries on the 49ers and just what the hell does Ben Peterson do? And now, I’m wondering about the medical staff. These guys are supposed to be professionals and they sure whiffed on this one.
It would be one thing if we were talking about defensive linemen where the team is really stacked. But when Reed was let go, there wasn’t a single CB under contract for next year.
Wilson would be so much better running this offense than Jimmy G it’s not even funny. BYU ran outside zone on 52% of its plays this season while Wilson took 18% of his snaps from under center. 38% of his dropbacks were off of play action with a passing grade of 92.9. His accuracy would allow the RAC Club to really RAC it up! I will stand by my, “whatever it takes” mantra in procuring Zach Wilson to be the face of this franchise for the next decade!!
Wilson threw 38 passes from the left hash to within 10 yards of the right sideline with a grade of 96.4. Flipping it, throwing right to left, he had a grade of 90.5 on 29 throws. He’s worth moving up for!
There’s a chance the 49ers could have the #10 pick and then they might have a shot for Wilson.
https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/12/30/22205049/the-49ers-path-to-the-10th-pick-in-the-2021-nfl-draft
But realistically, they probably won’t be in a position.
BS, was Andrew Reid in a position to trade up from 27 to 10 for Mahomes? Don’t tell me we can’t trade up from 10 to 2 for Zach Wilson!
Don’t tell me we can’t move up from 16 to 10 for Lance either!
And the Bears traded up to nab Trubisky. Anything is possible ???
Reid already had a playoff roster when he went after Mahomes. And he could take a risk on Mahomes because he also had playoff QB on the roster.
Completely different scenarios.
Unlike the Chiefs, the 49ers are in no position to give up draft capital.
No one ever excused their way to a championship.
Who’s making excuses?
Not Andy, he went up and got his man! He heard enough about not winning the big one. Getting up there in age too. He took a risk. Didn’t make any lame excuses for not taking that risk! What’s he got to show for it? R E D E M P T I O N
Andy had a playoff qb on the roster who is just like Jimmy. Could only get you so far. Kudos to Andy for realizing it and not letting emotion cloud his judgement!
“Andy had a playoff qb on the roster who is just like Jimmy. Could only get you so far. Kudos to Andy for realizing it and not letting emotion cloud his judgement!”
Yup, Andy had a playoff caliber QB in Alex Smith that allowed him to make such a deal.
Do we have that luxury? No. Do we have enough talent on the team to let JG walk in order to make room for Wilson? No.
We found out this year that we are not a playoff team without Jimmy on the field and you’re suggesting that we let him go for an unknown NFL product?
I would be shocked if Lynch and Shanahan had this mindset. A proven winner over an unproven NFL player just doesn’t add up.
Donte Whitner thinks that Saleh may sign 3 DBs when he goes to Detroit. K’Waun Williams, Jaquiski Tartt and Ahkello Witherspoon.
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I think the Niners will try really hard to re-sign K’Waun Williams, but they may move on from Tartt and Witherspoon. Tartt may cost too much, and the Niner defense has played well while Tartt has been on IR. Witherspoon has been replaced by Moseley.
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49ers no QB first 5 rounds mock:
#27 Trey Hill C (Trade #15 to NYJ for #27,66, & 97)
#47 Jaycee Horn CB
#57 Carlos Basham DE (Trade #66, & 110 to Ten)
#97 Trey Smith G
#142 Michael Carter RB
Coffee,
I like your thought process with both of these drafts even if I am not a fan of Trask and may have gone a different way with some of your picks, your rebuild appears sound.
In the QB mock I’m taking a chance that Basham makes it to 66, with this mock I make a small move up to grab him. Might not make it to 57 either but that’s why it’s called a mock.
I like Basham,he fits the wide 9 well, but there are a lot of edge rushers in this draft that I like.
There isn’t the singular stud ala Bosa or Young, but there is a lot of talent and depth at the edge roll, and I would be pissed if we didn’t tap into it all.
I’d tap twice.
49ers take a QB first 5 rounds mock:
#27 Kyle Trask QB (Trade #15 to NYJ for #27, 66, & 97)
#47 Rashawn Slater G/C
#66 Carlos Basham DE
#97 Tyson Campbell CB
#110 Trey Smith G
#142 Michael Carter RB
I like both drafts CFC.
Happy New Year everyone!
Coffee,
Is Trask still a 1st rd candidate after his bowl game disaster?
While looking at Trask in the game against Oklahoma, he reminded me of the old raiders QB Marc Wilson – lob passes, but accurate. He will need a very strong Oline in the pros to succeed.
Trask would be a nice pick at 27.
For those that like Trask more than Jones, what is it you like about him more than Jones? The main argument against Jones had been he is a product of the talent around him. We have now seen Trask is very much a product of the talent around him. So what makes Trask better?
You got me, I prefer Mac’s arm and think he’s more accurate. Trask is bigger, and maybe more willing to improvise… but not by much.
Agreed. For mine Jones also appears to be a better decision maker and can also make plays on the move. He won’t make wow plays on the move, but because he knows where his outlets are I have seen him make quite a few plays when the pocket collapses by calmly moving up, sliding, whatever and dumping it to his outlet. He did it earlier in this one vs ND – pressure from the right immediatley and he recognises it straight away, rolls to his left and throws on the move to his receiver. Hardest pass for a righty to make and he made it look easy.
True, this was a good showcase game for him.
He’s shown the ability to scramble, throw on the move, go through progressions and consistently take the check-down when deeper routes are covered.
It will be interesting to see where he gets drafted. Physical talents aren’t special which would normally mean he’d struggle to be more than a day 2 guy, and tbh that is probably what he should be. But lots of teams are likely to be looking for a QB in the draft this year – I could easily see him getting drafted round 1 as a result.
That would be a big mistake. He is surrounded by exceptional talent. Talent that might be better than some teams in the NFL.
The talent around Trask was pretty darn good too Prime, but you love him. Pitts will be a sure fire 1st rounder, and Toney will be no worse than a day 2 pick. Grimes is also good.
That’s true but Bama is basically the 33rd team of the NFL.
Sure, Alabama is very talented. But you have to scout the player, not the team. Saying Jones (or Trask) were only good this season because of the players around them is wrong. But they also aren’t elite talents that can go out and consistently get it done without talent around them either.
As far as traits go, I prefer Jones to Trask. Just does a better job working the pocket, makes better decisions, and is able to make plays on the move.
Zach Wilson officially announced that he is entering the draft.
“We have now seen Trask is very much a product of the talent around him. So what makes Trask better?”
I’m a little surprised that you can make a comment like that and completely disregard that the same can be said of Jones, who has better talent around him.
But I’ve cooled on Trask of late and believe that Mac would be a better fit for the 49ers because he’s more athletic. That’s why I give Jones the edge. I also believe that Jones could be available at #15 if the 49ers want a QB in the first rd.
Trask might slip to the 2nd rd which could conceivably be there for the 49ers if they trade out of the 1st rd for another rd two pick.
The only thing certain for the 2021 draft is that there will be a lot of moving parts leading up to it.
AES,
Scooter didn’t disregard it he said the same argument can be used against both qb’s. Both have NFL receivers and pretty solid lines in terms of pass pro. So the question remains, why do some people think Trask is obviously better when they have similar questions?
“I’m a little surprised that you can make a comment like that and completely disregard that the same can be said of Jones, who has better talent around him.”
Where did I disregard the same can be said of Jones? My point is that Trask fans will use this argument against Jones, but it is just as applicable to Trask. The talent he had around him was also excellent, and without it… he really struggled.
I also saw a tweet recently re why 49er fans shouldn’t want Jones – because he’s basically JG that can throw deep. Isn’t that exactly what Shanahan wants?
I prefer Jones to Trask and I think he is exactly the type of QB that Shanahan will like.
Jones certainly looks like he could do everything that KS is currently asking of his QBs. I haven’t really watched him this season, so will have to take people’s word for his deep ball ability, something that is sorely lacking at the moment.
What I have seen impressed me with Jones quick processing & accuracy.
Apologies Scooter.
I misread your comment.
You did regard Jones in your post.
New Year’s hang over.
But I do like Jones over Trask.
Mac would be a good pick at #15 and Trask in the 2nd rd if we trade out of the first and garner an extra rd 2 pick.
That was a good throw to see from him. He doesn’t throw often while on the move but he did it well there.
Assuming the Niners draft 11th, maybe they should stand pat and select DeVonta Smith, who is ranked 11th on a prospects ranking. He could be a difference maker. Then, with Deebo and Aiyuk, the WR squad wuld be one of the strongest in the league.
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However, I still want them to trade back at least 2 times, to get as many draft picks in the first 3 rounds as possible. Smith is so special, he may go top 8.
Fields is out playing Lawrence.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen Lawrence look average.
I look for Fields to solidify the #2 QB pick over Wilson with a win tonight.
Fields is showing why he was considered the consensus 2nd overall prospect earlier in the year.
End of the day, the top 4 QBs are all very talented and will be high picks for a good reason.
49ers need J Fields ……..
If JimmyG took the same hit this kid took earlier in the game, he would have been shut down for 2 weeks……
Experience – check
Pass Accuracy – check
Arm Strength – check
Mobility – check
Leadership – check
Toughness – check
Holy Cow, Justin Fields! Have yourself a day, young man.
Wow!
Now, will the Jags pick Fields over Lawrence?
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Mac Jones may move up from a third round prospect(100) on the Draft Network big board.
Fields had a good game but if the big 4 I’m still taking him last. His physical skill set is special, I just really don’t like the way he sees the field. Throwing into triple coverage, missing the wide open receiver in front of him to throw a td to a well covered player… obviously it worked out but it was still a bad decision.
He does this a lot and a good defense will make him pay. Clemson doesn’t have that this year. I am not sure that Alabama game will be fun to watch.
I’ll be rooting for Woody Hayes over Bear Bryant on this one.
It should be a good game.
You and me both AES, you and me both.
Yeah, I feel somewhat similarly. But regardless of what order you put them, the talent is there for each of the top 4 QBs. Obviously not finished products, not even Lawrence, and will need to develop their games in the pros, but the natural talent is there. As to whether any of them pan out, who knows for sure.
Ryan Day used to be the QB coach for the Niners, so there is that connection, but Alabama is an offensive juggernaut. Ohio State is too, so it may just come down to whoever has the ball last.
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In the CBS big board, Deonte Brown (32), Alex Leatherwood (45) or Landon Dickerson (74) may be Alabama prospects who could help improve the Niner O Line.
“I think the key to long success is having the right quarterback throughout that whole time and then having a good coaching staff and good personnel department. I think if you look at anyone, whether it’s Pittsburgh, whether it’s New England, whether it’s New Orleans, Green Bay, Seattle, all the teams that have had great quarterbacks over the last decade with good coaches and with good personnel departments, they’ve got a shot to be in the playoffs year in and year out.”
This response from Shanahan is what I have been saying for a long time (not that its anything earth shattering). Sustaining success without a great QB is almost impossible. Great teams built around a decent QB will erode over time.
The other part of this equation is that great QBs have won considerably more SBs than decent QBs in the past two decades. Having a great QB doesn’t just provide longer term success – it increases your chances of winning a SB significantly. Again, nothing earth shattering.
So, unless you believe JG is a great QB or that the top QBs in the upcoming draft are rubbish, I really can’t fathom why you wouldn’t want the team to go after one of the top QBs in the upcoming draft.
As the history of drafting QB show and especially drafting a QB in the first round, there’s a long distance between “rubbish” and “can’t miss”.
So those teams mentioned by Shannie and their QBs:
Pittsburgh – 1st round, 11th pick
Green Bay – 1st round, 24th pick
New Orleans – Acquired as “damaged goods” (drafted 2nd round)
New England – 6th round
Seattle -3rd round
Just goes to show great QBs can be found outside of “the top QBs in the draft”.
The chances of finding a top QB outside the first round are very small. Just look at the last 20 SB winners. Outside of Brady, Wilson and Brees (who was taken just outside the 1st), those teams starting QBs for the majority of the season was a first round QB.
No, nothing such as can’t miss. Always a chance the player won’t work out. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try when presented an opportunity at a talented QB, because history over the past two decades has shown that settling for a decent veteran QB rarely brings SB victory or sustained success.
One of the key reasons talented young QBs fail is poor supporting cast and organisational structure. 49ers are able to provide any rookie QB with a talented roster and good offensive head coach. The chances of the QB failing is thereby lessened. If they can then sit behind JG for a year or even two, all the better.
History over the last two decades has been dominated by a gem found in the 6th round.
At what cost? Trading away the house insanity as Razor insists?
Brady is very much the exception. Heck, Wilson in the 3rd is very much the exception. Using that as a guide for drafting QBs is ridiculously stupid. If you don’t see this I can’t help you.
There are 4 very talented QBs in this draft. Don’t need to trade up to 1 or 2 to get one.
Joe Montana was an exception. These exceptions blow your “rule” out of the water. Your 1st round QB is just as likely to be a 5th year albatross about team’s neck than a SB winning QB
Jesus, pulling out a QB drafted in the 70s to make your point? 10 of the last 15 SBs were won by a team with a 1st round QB.
15 years? OK.
Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Ryan, Brady Quinn, Josh Freeman,Mark Sanchez,Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow,Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Paxton Lynch
Want to tell me what the above luminaries have in common? It sure as hell isn’t SB winning. If you are at a loss, it’s 1st round pick team saviors of the last 15 years. I’ve not included the 1st round picks of the last couple years – too soon to tell. But the vast majority of them are going to end up in the same historical dustbin as the above.
Why don’t you now go through all the non-1st round QBs taken over that period just to show me how successful that path is?
There is already a QB on the roster that got the team closer to the Lombardi than all but one or two of those first round names ever did for their teams.
What more pressing team need do you forego in your quest? Edge? OL? Secondary? Yeah, yeah I know Niners never pick CB or safety in the first round… though with one starting CB on his way out, the others that can’t stay healthy, maybe this is the year they should.
And if they can load the roster around JG again like they did in 2019, maybe they can get back to the dance and win it. Not questioning that. But I am questioning how likely it is they can do so.
The team is now in the “struggling to retain talent” phase, not the “acquiring talent” phase. This is why maintaining success without a great QB is so difficult – you build a great roster but at some point you can’t afford to pay everyone and the chances of replacing lots of great talent with equal or better talent that is cheaper is very low.
I mean, does anyone here truly believe that the 49ers will be as good or better in 2021 than they were in 2019? Exactly how epic a draft would that take? And if they aren’t as good or better, what are their realistic chances of winning the SB?
“ I mean, does anyone here truly believe that the 49ers will be as good or better in 2021 than they were in 2019?
Absolutely and why not? The NFC is not loaded with great teams.
With a solid draft and some good luck with health, this is a championship team.
Why not? Prime?
Because they have a secondary with only it’s starting safety set to return, so their will be a lack of continuity and likely a new defensive coordinator.Because that secondary won’t have Defo, Ford, and Bosa is likely a year away from returning to full form coming off an ACL&MCL year. Because their best pass rusher this year (Hyder) isn’t signed and neither are key depth pieces like Jones.
It would take a miracle for the defense to be as good, so the offense would need to step up big time… and with their oline having 4 members that are Bad in pass pro I can’t see a major step forward.
Shoup, and yet the likes of Razor and Scooter insist a first round QB is the key needed to make this team competitive for challenging a SB title again. Even in said QB’s rookie season says Razor. Insanity.
Ribico,
I think there is a key difference in Scooter and Razor’s thinking. Razor thinks a better QB will make this team a contender immediately. Scooter doesn’t think this is a SB contending Roster and the fastest way to rebuild is to utilize a Jimmys contract to fill key holes in the roster and the rookie wage scale for a new, potentially better QB, (potentially worse also).
In both cases if you get it right, the QB can fix a lot of wrong decisions. Keep Jimmy or Move on this team isn’t contending for a SB next year, but they could make a strong run in 2 years. It just really depends on what you believe Jimmy to be, or rather what you believe he is capable of being.
Prime, just look at all the FAs they have this year. And the limited amount of cap they will have. Plus Richburg and Ford likely to be cut. Plus Buckner already gone.
The chances of the 49ers fielding a team that is as good or better than the 2019 one are very small. It would take an epic offseason. One that includes nailing the main FA signings and top draft picks, as well as finding a large number of good to excellent starters plus decent depth players through low cost FAs and day 3 draft picks.
Now I am not saying the team has no chance of winning the SB next year, but if the 2019 roster wasn’t good enough, the chances aren’t likely to be improved in 2021. And this is what usually happens with a strong team built around a decent QB – you have your shot, but after that the salary cap means the team around the QB gets weaker.
Rib, I am saying that history over the past two decades shows that the most likely way of putting a SB roster together is to either have a great QB, or a 1st round QB on his rookie contract. And the likeliest way of finding a great QB is also drafting one in the 1st round.
Which I see is basically what Shoup said, as well.
Can you unequivocally say that the four top quarterbacks coming out this year are great?
Because if you are then the Niners will be mortgaging their future to get one.
Great talents? Yes. As far as natural talent goes the top 4 are very good and stack up with top 15 QBs drafted in the past 10 years. Some will argue the resume isn’t there for some of these guys, which is probably true, but as far as natural talent goes they have it.
Great NFL QBs? Nobody can know that right now. But the 49ers as a landing spot for any of them would increase their chances of success.
And no, I wouldn’t trade the farm for one of them either. If that is what it takes to get one, go a different direction. But if the 4th guy is there at say pick 10-12… it won’t cost the farm.
Next week’s championship game against Alabama and Ohio St. might determine where the top 4 QBs draft positions permanently land.
A strong performance from either Jones or Fields could possibly shuffle the draft QB order.
The current (according to some mock draft sites) draft order is:
Lawrence
Fields
Wilson
Lance.
There’s been a debate between Fields and Wilson being the second QB off the board, but after Fields rained on Lawrence’ parade last night, Fields might have claimed the number 2 overall pick.
I personally feel that the second tier QB group is Jones, Lance and Trask. The guys should be within range for the 49ers.
Mac would be my choice.
From a natural talent perspective I put Lance with the top three – the arm talent, mobility, movement in the pocket is all there, and while he is obviously inexperienced and raw, he has demonstrated good poise and decision making in the pocket. If Ridder declares I think he has more natural talent than Jones and Trask too, but needs work as a pocket passer that the other four I think have shown more capability with right now.
But Jones has a lot of the intangibles I like in a QB with good enough arm and mobility. He would be a fine consolation prize late 1st/ early 2nd imo. Though the physical limitations may be enough to drop him to later than that, same with Trask.
Scooter
Don’t sleep on Ala. QB Mac Jones. I know he’s got WR’s DeVonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle, plus RB Najee Harris. (The O-Line’s not bad either, with Deonte Brown, Alex Leatherwood and Landon Dickerson), But I think you’ll admit Justin Fields and Ohio St. D exposed Trevor Lawrence and Clemson ? And as you said, Jones has a lot of the intangibles to like in a QB! If Jones and Alabama beats Fields and Ohio St., Mac Jones will deserve some of the credit. That/s to say, he’s more than just a “game manager,” or if he is, he’s a pretty good (underrated) one?
Having said that my question to you, or anyone that wants to add their opinion, is this. If Alabama makes Ohio St. look like just another overmatched college football team and Jones contributes with 2-3 touchdowns, will that move him up into the top 4 QB’s and move Wilson and Trey Lance down…Making one, or both, available for the 9ers to draft with their 1St RD draft pick? (will someone please give Razor a towel to dry his eyes)?
2nd question: If the 9ers keep JG, can they afford both he and Trent Williams, especially with Williams MARKET VALUE now at $18.2 Million, even if he gives the 9ers a home town discount of say $16.2 Million and they back load his contract? Also, reference your January 2, 2021 post at 7:06 pm, how does that affect the 9ers “realistic chances of winning the SB?”
I’m not sleeping on Jones. I really like him, as I have said previously. If they miss out on one of the top 4 I would be happy drafting Jones… but not at 10-15. Later in round 1 or in round 2.
He looks like a guy that can be exactly what Shanahan wants in his QB.
If the 49ers keep JG they can still keep Williams as well. But yeah, keeping JG obviously reduces the chances of keeping/ signing other FAs and will result in the roster around JG likely being weaker.
Jones is going to remind Shanny of Kirk Cousins.
Exactly my thoughts, razor.
Exactly where I’ve been for the better part of 6 weeks.
KS- ‘Yes, I do believe that Jimmy is going to be our QB next season….. And not to mention, look at Jimmy’s record when he’s been here. Jimmy, you can win with. He’s proven that.’ He also mentions that JG’s salary is not too high, so they will not cut him to save cap space.
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JL- ‘Jimmy is our quarterback.’ There is no 6 time SB winner to consider, and even then, the Niners chose JG over TB.
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So no. The Niners will not draft a QB in the first round, and they certainly will not move up to select a QB, when so many other positions have huge needs. What they will do is help JG by giving him more protection.
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Fortunately, in the top 102 players in the CBS prospects rankings, they have 19 O linemen. In the top 51 players, they have 7 CBs. With their first 2 picks, they should be able to find a starting OT and CB.
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I do not think the Niners will be able to trade back with the Jags, since Baalke will be running their draft. He and Jed did not leave on good terms.
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The team the Niners should trade back with, is the Dolphins. They have a boatload of picks, and may want to move up with their later first round pick. They could offer their first and second round picks in order to move up for the Niners first round pick.
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Surmising about this upcoming game with the Seahawks, I hope the Niner pass rush can get to Wilson early, so Pete Carroll will pull him in order to prevent injury.
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I believe their priorities are a speed rusher, center and CB. Only a OT if they can’t sign Williams. I don’t believe they will need to trade back much. They don’t need wholesale picks. They need high quality picks.
I put Safety near the top of the list. We need to find our own Minkah/Derwin. We need a guy who can deliver a big hit … a guy who can coral a mobile QB … a guy who can help in coverage versus #1 receivers .
No one seems to talk about a need that has gone unmet — a punt-returner with potential to be the third receiver. A good punt returner is almost as important to the team as a good punter. Niners have ranked in the bottom quartile and have been average-to-bad for all of Kyle’s tenure. With Taylor leaving, James continuing to be inconsistent, and Aiyuk too important to routinely field punts, there is a need for a good punt returner who can be the third receiver (or compete with the third receiver, based on the Bourne situation).
On high quality picks, I expect Shanalynch to use some of the picks to move around in the draft and end the third day with closer to 7 picks than 10.
Mood, remember that NCAA record setting punt returner? A Dante something or other, I think ? If only the team could find a guy like that, problem solved! ?
Hey, Pettis just scored a TD for the Giants today. When was the last time you heard Pettis catching a TD pass?!
I think Niners are likely to draft a punt returner/receiver with a NFL build and some dog in him.
Yeah, and made a pretty good trap McCarthy missed that ended up being the difference in the game.
Jerry,
There should be a lot of day 2 candidates at edge, center and corner that fill those needs and provide quality.
I also would expect SF to grab Bourne’s replacement on day 3.
*if it were not a luxury pick and we didn’t have so many needs elsewhere I would love to have Etienne, as I believe he could be a much better version of what Shanahan envisioned McKinnon becoming.
Jerry
* “if they can’t sign Williams. I don’t believe they will need to trade back much.” * So who would you draft to replace Trent Williams? Do you believe the 9ers will draft someone to replace him, or will the they replace him with Daniel Brunskill, then draft an OT on day three? * Since Shanahan values the O-Center position, who would you draft to replace Weston Richburg? Or do you believe the 9ers will replace him with Ben Garland, or draft a Center on Day three?
** Then draft a Center**
Here’s how the drama unfolds:
Kyle (for the dozenth time): We expect Jimmy G to be our QB going into 2021. We have won with him and he is still get getting better. However, we continually review all our positions if opportunity arises to get better at any position which will improve the team.
ESPN, Comcast Sports or any other media: We have reliable sources who say that Niners will move on from Jimmy G as soon as they can grab a better QB. Let’s spend the next 3 months till FA discussing who that will be. And then we can focus on rookies in the draft.
Fans: Of course we need to move on from Jimmy G. He’s mediocre and making too much money. Kyle, we have a list of QBs we have voted for your consideration. Please listen to the wisdom of the masses. Granted that the order in the list changes after every game each QB plays, after every new highlight video on Youtube and after every mock draft released weekly by self-appointed football gurus. Heck, just to be on the safe side, mortgage the decade and draft all the QBs not named Lawrence. One of them will pan out and some of us would be right about drafting him. We will help you trade the rest after you groomed all of them into trade baits. Let’s do it, Kyle!
Mood_Indigo:
Congratulations, we heard it from you FIRST! Jed has hired Seb as his new GM and HC….
And JG stays on Sebs team after only receiving offers of 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and a 5th instead of his floor of 3 firsts, 3 seconds, a 3rd, 4th, 5th and package of 7 players. ???
You folks just convinced me to add Lawrence to the QB stable! Let them fight it out! Make it happen, Kyle!
Yup, and JG helps lead the Niners to another SB. In the second half, the Niners run the ball, and achieve their Quest for SIX.
I do not need to be the HC. KS is taking my advice and is being bold. He went for it on 4th down, and made it.
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Now, all they need to do is score a TD, and not settle for a field goal.
* “I do not need to be the HC. KS is taking my advice”
* Yes indeed, some narcissist is suffering from delusion of grandeur!
NOTE: By definition, delusions of grandeur is the false belief in one’s own superiority, greatness, or intelligence. People experiencing delusions of grandeur do not just have high self-esteem; instead, they believe in their own greatness and importance even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary!
* Anyone want to guess who fits that description? Do you know anyone like that Seb?
Lighten up, Francis. I did not start this by declaring that Jed hired me to be GM and HC.
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BTW, if KS had taken my advice, and not settled for field goals, he might have won.
Seb
My name is NOT Francis! And even YOU are not narcissistic enough to believe your own obtuse, THC induced drivel. Or are you?
Gosh, I said I do not need to be the HC. That sounds kinda humble, to me.
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Maybe the ‘Lighten up Francis’ – remark went over your head. Drivel? Where have I heard that term before?
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‘As I said before, if you do not like my post, no one is forcing you to read it. You can whine about it, scroll on by, or take your own advice and go away! I suggest you stop whining, and learn to live with it.’ Pot, meet Kettle.
Hey Razor, your guy Lin Wood’s been in the news lately. And not for threatening slander suits against our President-elect. He’s upped his game, now threatening the current VP with execution. Secret Service on line one.
Ribico
* Correct me if I’m wrong Ribico, but didn’t Razor GUARANTEE some politician would be reelected? Some politician who has a habit of making conspiracy “ALLEGATIONS” that slandered someone? Hey Razor, help me out here….. WHO WAS THAT POLITICIAN? Maybe politician is the wrong word, as some consider him a DEVINE DEITY?
BTW: That politician from your home state, what’s his name? Is he another “PATRIOT” that wants to join the wing nut from Tex-as and the other 140 “PATRIOTS” and save the republic by ignoring the “WILL OF THE PEOPLE” and overthrowing the new President elect, his administration, and ignore the Constitution? Just asking for a friend if you believe that will help him gain favor with the orange “DEVINE DEITY’ you guaranteed would win reelection and help get him elected President in 2024? OH WAIT, That other one you guaranteed would WIN is going to run again in 2024, RIGHT? So Razor, can you please explain how that’s going to work out?
Geep, as a serviceman Razor took an oath to defend the Constitution. I can’t speak for him, but at this point he has to disavow this post-election seditious behavior of the current president and his enabling minions. Especially in light of the recording of his felony vote tampering attempt.
Ribico
You’re assuming “facts not in evidence!” Rusty Razor’s edge is too dull to cut to the truth! He’s still believes as a “PATRIOT,” it was another “PERFECT CALL,” because he can’t handle the truth!
I’m thinking that Kyle may have some designed runs for Beathard this afternoon.
Jamal Adams has 9.5 sacks this season. Let’s add that to job description of the Super Safety I am envisioning.
Rollo, haven’t you been following???? Sorry but those 2 firsts and a third needed to land an Adams talent are slated for a QB this draft. Who needs a safety when you have Super-Rookie QB!
GEEP
* A small school RB from N. Carolina A&T, Jah-Maine Martin. He’s likely a 2021 F/A the 9ers should take a look at.
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nc-at-running-back-jah-maine-martin-is-a-diamond-in-the-rough/
GEEP
* A small school day three / 7th Rd. WR draft prospect, at 6′ 5″ x 225, with a projected 4.5s 40. Mike Strachan from Charleston is also a player the 9ers should take a look at.
https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2020/05/mike-strachan/
Niners are looking good. Tied 6-6 in the third.
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GO NINERS !!!!!!
Kittle amazing catch. CJ can’t take the sack
CJ Beathard obviously cares about the 49ers draft position.
Good God, does he make another NFL roster? I pray Kshan doesn’t bring him back when no one signs him.
The announcer just said Breathard was out-playing Wilson. We lead 9-6. What game are you watching? You obviously know nothing about football.
9 pts and I am supposed to be impressed? He was not seeing wide open receivers, and left 10 pts at least off the score board.
This last drive though was a solid one.
It sure seems to me that they will be able to sign Williams. As for a center I don’t waste my time scouting potential draft picks. I leave that up to the guys whose jobs are on the line and who do this as a profession.
Beathard has been careful with the ball. If he ( or anyone else) don’t turn it over, Niners take this one.
I take back every negative thing I’ve said or thought about Saleh. He coached his @ss off this season under the most extenuating of circumstances. We are going miss him mightily next year.
He did and they won’t.
Noice. Saleh is coaching the heck out of his last game with the Niners.
Good game plan and great play by the players.
“NOICE!” Writing is FUNDAMENTAL….Just ask Seb.
Indubitably.
We are seeing once again that so long as the QB doesn’t turn the ball over, no matter how many TDs they miss this team has a chance to win games.
Oof. CJB suffers a strip sack.
Scooter
Can you say PRESCIENT?
GEEP
Northern Iowa OT Spencer Brown is an athletic freak the 9ers should take a hard look at. He’s 6′ 9″ X 322 and is said to run a sub 5.0d 40. He also benches 500 pounds and would likely be drafted mid to late 3rd Rd, had the football schedule not been moved to late spring. The 9ers could draft him in the 4th Rd, or get a steal in the 5th.
https://nflmocks.com/2020/08/22/2021-nfl-draft-spencer-brown-athlete/
Geep,
I really don’t see this team going after an OT early in this draft. Center maybe but not OT, unless Trent isn’t resigned, but I don’t see them letting that happen.
Shoup
At Center, I like Oklahoma’s Creed Humphrey. CBSSPORTS.COM has him listed late Rd 2, at #61. Do you think Shana/Lynch would draft a Center then?
There are actually about 4 or 5 that are really good but I would rate him and Meyers the highest right now… I sill need to watch the kid from Iowa though.
I really like Linderbaum. Still learning the position but is already really good and tough. My only real question mark is whether he will declare.
Actually, just saw he has already said he will return to Iowa next year. So he isn’t an option.
Shoup
Northern Iowa’s OT, Spencer Brown should be available in the 4th Rd., possibly the 5th. The kid is an athletic Freak and with a year or two of NFL coaching, I believe he could be the steal of the 2021 draft. A 4th Rd. draft pick salary of ~$ 3.3 Mil. would also help alleviate the 9er 2021 Salary cap problem. Check out his scouting report and see if you don’t agree.
Once again Saleh cannot make the adjustments in game.
It has been swell fellas.
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I am super excited to close out football and get into some swinging action with the wifey and the neighbors across the way.
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Have a wonderful 2021!
Okay, weirdo
Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve tried it!
Go away. You can do whatever you like in your bedroom but your sexual transgressions are not welcome on a football blog.
Do not fall for catfish trolls. It makes you look clueless.
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I thought family was off limits.
Apologies.
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My wife posted this comment.
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It was a mistake. Note to self- close the laptop. ;p
This catfish tries too hard.
A pity the team couldn’t hold on and win that one – played hard all game. Credit to the players and coaches; it’s been a tough year but they’ve continued to play hard throughout. In the end the story of the season has been injuries and turnovers killing them.
Pick #12 is now locked in. Going to be a fascinating offseason.
Definitely credit the players and coaches. Also thumbs up to the NFL and Goodell for making the season work with all of the rescheduling issues .
First time in franchise history we draft 12th overall. Let’s make it a good one.
If WFT loses, the Giants move from 11 to 19. SF and WFT will have the same record at 6-10, but I don’t know which team will pick at number 11 and which team will pick 12th. Anybody know – can the team move up one pick if WFT loses tonight?
Makes no difference cubus. 49ers have the harder strength of schedule no matter whether it is the Giants or WFT.
Yeah, I was afraid of that. Thanks.
The Seahawks fielded a team that was significantly more talented overall than the Niners. At no point did I feel that Niners are going to win the game — even after the 10 point lead in the fourth quarter. Wilson cannot maintain that frenetic pace of scurrying around finding the open receiver for an entire game. So he does it all in the fourth quarter. The Niners D line was giving him lot of time all through the game. But the receivers were not getting open and Wilson was not running out of the pocket. They generally save all that for the fourth quarter after staying close for three quarters. Lacking the closers in Bosa and Ford to pressure from the edges, the Niners D was outmanned after the offense failed to keep drives alive.
But like Scooter, I’m pleased with how the team rose to the occasion and played above their talent level in a game that meant so much more to the Seahawks than to the Niners.
Mood_jndigo
The good news is, players that normally would not get any on field reps in, did get some. They got some game time experience and the coaches now have video to evaluate them with and decide who to keep and who not to, for the 2021 season.
It was great to see them giving the Seahawks all they could handle but I knew the bottom would fall out eventually. They just didn’t have the horses this year due to all the injuries but the job done by Saleh was fantastic and Shanny did well to have this team competitive for most of the year while missing so many key players. The biggest issue this team has – besides the cap – is trying to figure out how to curb the injuries moving forward.
Yeah, the effort and performance was testament to the character of the team that has been built, the quality of coaching, and the leadership of Kyle and Saleh.
Most of these injures can be ascribed to lack of OTA and the rest to back luck. The only exceptions are players like Deebo who should focus more on off-season health maintenance.
Rooting for Alex Smith…????
Your obsession with Alex Smith is unhealthy.
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However, there is a 49ers QB that took the team to the Super Bowl, and is still available.
Seriously after 3 yrs in the same system….kshan failed us at QB….
You mean we carried both mullens and CJB on the roster this long thinking we had a strong QB room….but instead we got nothing/ bust in return after 3 yrs….
JimmyG is good but dude is not available….he gets hurt easily and makes sense why he lacks the awareness on when to run the ball…….
We need a JField to seat behind JimnyG for 2yrs…..
Resign Verret asap..
1. Niners will be a team to be reckoned with next year. Niners in even years and Giants in odd.
2. Is it my imagination or did Witherspoon and Al-Shaair play well 2 weeks in a row ?
3. I guess it has become my duty to defend Jimmy. In 2019 there were 6 games in which Jimmy led the team back to tie or win in the last or second to last possession. It was Jimmy not our D or running game which won those games.
4. Furthermore Jimmy sustains drives. What killed us this afternoon was giving the ball right back to Wilson in the 4th after they scored. We needed a time consuming ball control drive.
Witherspoon gave up the winning TD!
Rollo, the line is that defense carried Jimmie to the super bowl last year. This year? ESPN has Niners D as a top 5. Other sites somewhere in the top 10 (amazing considered the talent sidelined). And what did that excellent defense carry the Niners to this year? Now what could have been the difference between a SB calling card and missing the playoffs completely? Hmmmmm?
Well come on ribico you know the answer to that question is…Zac Wilson!
Tough season, but understandable really given all the team had to overcome. 6-10 looks bad but I don’t feel too down, it could easily have been 10-6 had a couple breaks gone the right way. Salah will be missed if he does indeed leave, but I don’t think it would spell the end for the Niners either.
Hope everyone reading is staying safe, and had a nice Christmas/New Year. Now to enjoy the playoffs stress-free, and look forward to the draft. Here is hopin the 2021 edition is less Covid-racked.
ESPN’s Chris Mortensen said the following on Sunday NFL Countdown Sunday morning:
“Garoppolo’s injuries certainly complicate the picture. Kyle Shannahan, the coach said, he believes Garoppolo will be the quarterback in 2021, but he says he can’t say it with certainty. Most league insiders believe if there’s a better option, the 49ers will have somebody other than Garoppolo at the start of next season.”
https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/1/3/22211543/most-league-insiders-believe-the-49ers-will-move-on-from-jimmy-g-if-there-is-a-better-option
“Most league insiders believe if there’s a better option, the 49ers will have somebody other than Garoppolo at the start of next season.” Well of course. That’s always the case for every team. That’s a meaningless thing to write. That and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.
That is kind of funny.
So… you are saying most NFL people believe Kyle when he said if we can improve there or at any position we will try to do so. Big News, there :D.
Jerry: It does seem kind of meaningless and the way it is written is “click bait”. But what it really means is that league insiders believe there will be a concerted major effort on the part of the 49ers to evaluate options for the starting QB this offseason – JG is not locked in at all at the position. In that sense, it is not the case for every team. There will be no effort to evaluate who the starting QB is at KC, Green Bay, Seattle, Cincinnati, Houston and a few others.
Restructure is the only way the 49ers silence the quarterback talk of replacing Jimmy Garoppolo.
I’d go further and say at this point only an extension will silence the talk. A restructure will still mean two years left, which will still mean talk of who the QB of the future is.
By this point I think everyone should be aware the team is at least keeping its options open with regard to JG. Not only does the contract situation say that, Shanahan has openly insinuated it.
Agreed. Don’t think it happens, but we’re about to find out. This team from the front office down to the towel boy is going to be a different animal next year. I feel like this year is critical to finding sustained success moving forward. QB coach, 1st and maybe 2nd lieutenants of scouting, passing game coordinator, fullback, secondary, qb decision, and on and on….
Well it looks like Trump finally found the “ELECTION FRAUD” he been looking for! In his less than “perfect call,” to a Georgia official, he may have also committed another crime!
* As word spread Sunday of President Trump’s astonishing phone conversation with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger the day before, there is widespread speculation that the president had committed one or more crimes in his effort to overturn the results of the election in Georgia, including extortion and, ironically, election fraud.
A recording of the one-hour call was released Sunday by the Washington Post. The president is heard pressuring Raffensperger to “find 11,780 votes” that would put him in the lead over President-elect Joe Biden in Georgia, which has already certified its results. Trump also threatens Raffensperger with the possibility of criminal charges unless he comes up with the votes to overturn the election results.
* TRUMP: ““You know, that’s a criminal — that’s a criminal offense. And you know, you can’t let that happen,” Trump says on the call. “That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. That’s a big risk.” “There’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you’ve recalculated,” the president said.
* Joined on the call by his general counsel, Ryan Germany, Raffensperger calmly and methodically disputes Trump’s election theories. “Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong,” Raffensperger said.
* SO THE QUESTION TO ALL YOU TRUMP SUPPORTERS IS: Do you support the wing nut from Tex=a$$ and the other 140 GOP “PATRIOTS” who agree with the CRIMINAL-IN-CHIEF?
Yes
I know that I do not support your political comments on a football blog. Please go away.
Jerry
If you don’t like my post, no one is forcing you to read it. Your choice Jerry, you can whine about it, scroll on by, or take your own advice and go away!
I suggest you stop whining and learn earn to live with it!
And how about a little courtesy on your part and stick to football on a football blog
Jerry
A narcissistic, pathological lying President of the U.S. wants to ignore the will of the people, overthrow the President elect and trample on the Constitution, all because his ego can’t handle the fact he lost! And you don’t want to hear about his crimes, so you WHINE about COURTESY on a football blog? You need to stop looking at the world thru your belly button and get your priorities straight. There are bigger problems than courtesy on a football blog, even if you don’t like hearing about Trump’s criminal behavior and election fraud!
As I said before, If you don’t like my post, no one is forcing you to read it. You can whine about it, scroll on by, or take your own advice and go away! I suggest you stop whining and learn earn to live with it!
Narcissistic?
Dude you’re pretty much describing yourself on this blog.
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Lane Meyer?
“DUDE?” THE NAME IS GEEP! WHEN I WANT YOU OPINION, I’LL ASK FOR IT! DO YOU REMEMBER ME ASKING?
* Has anyone on this blog ever hear of this so called “LANE MEYER” ever posting on this blog before? NO, me either! More than likely Lane Meyer is some gutless swamp rat that’s afraid of exposing who it is, so it hides behind a fake name….
That tape was disturbing to hear. A pres of the US should never be threatening state officials to “find” votes. There are many good people who support Trump for good reasons, but this is taking it too far
So what are we going to do here, folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.”
Dude is pathetic….
oneniner
“Dude” is a pathetic criminal…..There, fixed it for you!
Niners didn’t lose today!
Everybody knows they were clearly ahead in the 4th quarter and the game should have been called right then!
This is a scam! And the fake prime time donnas will pay for this treason!
It’s fake!
Ok, that is funny :D
And the Niners won the super bowl last year, there’s no way Niners lost that game! I was there, Niners fans vastly outnumbered Chiefs fans.
But, but,,, they used slow motion instant replay, and that is infallible. Just look at all those football games!!!!!!
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You replay it 3 times, and it shows they counted the ballots 3 times. That’s incredible!!!!!!!
orange dude is going insane
going ?
Losers!
Congratz to Alex Smith. He is an inspiration to all. He led his team to the playoffs, when earlier, they were jockeying for the first pick in the draft.
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I am happy. The Cowgirls lost. They did not deserve to get to the playoffs.
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I am wondering where Saleh lands. Atlanta may be a good landing spot, but Detroit seems the most logical spot.
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Maybe KS will be forced to elevate Mike Lafleur to OC, so Saleh does not lure him away.
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The Jets Texans, Lions and Falcons may interview Saleh. The Jags, Chargers, Bengals and Vikings may be looking for new HCs.
Hopefully he does end up with the Lions. That would be the kiss of death.
>>I am happy. The Cowgirls lost. They did not deserve to get to the playoffs.
Hehe… and Dante Pettis was instrumental in that Giants win ;)
Looks like Doug Marrone and Anthony Lynn are looking for jobs.
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Saleh may like the Chargers job. That team does have talent.
PFF:
If they do draft a QB, I like Jamie Newman better than a Wentz clone.
Wentz is mentally weak. Without sitting in on interviews, you have very little to go on regarding the psychological makeup of the upcoming qb class….
Wentz isn’t mentally weak. You just need to have watched him in college or his first few years in the NFL to know he is one tough hombre. Unfortunately his body can’t hold up. Injuries have taken their toll on him.
Let me explain. I think it’s a confluence of events that makes me believe he’s mentally wounded. Gun shy from the injuries. 2nd round quarterback shook his confidence that the team believes in him. Piss poor coaching. Porous OL. Lack of weaponry.
I think his confidence was shaken, for a variety of reasons, so if that is what you meant I agree. Main reason imo being injuries.
In no way would I consider him mentally weak though. Tbh, I expect once he gets out of the Eagles he will resurrect his career.
I wouldn’t want to be the one in on that reclamation project. Kinda reminds me of the Alex Smith scenario. Maybe a coach like Harbaugh could rebuild his psyche, and get him close to his former self….
If Fields has a dominant game against Ohio St. there’s a good chance that he overtakes Lawrence as the #1 QB. And if Mac Jones does the same against Ohio St. he could become a top 5 pick.
The QB draft order could have a lot of ramifications after the championship game.
I can’t see any way Fields is picked over Lawrence and it would be bad decision to do so based on his team winning.
Why not?
If Fields has a great game in beating Alabama that gives him wins over two prominent QBs in Lawrence and Jones.
Lawrence looked average against Ohio St. and appeared to look lost on the sidelines.
He finally went up against a strong team and he whiffed.
I believe in the old Boxing adage; “If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.”
That’s exactly what Fields has done so far. We’ll just have to see how it all shakes out next week.
I agree with Shoup. Lawrence has been viewed as a generation talent going back to High School and he’s done nothing to lose that standing. I didn’t see average from him in the OSU game at all. I saw one team that was significantly better dominating a team that was only in it due to the QB. Lawrence played a very good game considering he was under duress most of the night and Clemson couldn’t run the ball at all. That isn’t meant as a knock on Fields, but Lawrence has the better body of work and should be the #1 pick.
Why not AES,
Because they are not playing against each other, their teams are playing against each other, and Lawrence was going against OSU’s defense which played much better than Clemson’s. His defense gave up 35 pts in the first half alone, remember the Miami game as the wheels fell off? You can’t be balanced even if you want to be after that.
As to his playing average he threw for 400 yards 2td’s and 1 int.
Using the logic you described means you end up drafting Jake Coker over Deshaun Watson, or Baker Mayfield over Patrick Mahomes, or Mason Rudolf over Patrick Mahomes. You always have to scout the player and Lawrence as a Player is much better than Fields.
I agree. waiting until the Bowl games and Championship games, will tell a lot more about talent assessments, when they go up against elite talent. Jamie Newman may use the Senior bowl to skyrocket up the rankings.
I have seen too many reports throughout the season indicating that the Falcons are expected to draft a successor or replacement to Matt Ryan. And I would pass on Lance at 12; he has the tools, but I do not see him as a franchise QB.
If Lance has all the tools, why do you not see him as a franchise QB?
What the Falcons do will likely largely come down to who they hire as HC and what they want to do.
Because College QB’s who have only started for one year don’t have a very good track record in the NFL. It is a massive gamble to take Lance with a first round pick.
So for you it is experience/ body of work? Not anything about his talents?
He is talented just like every other QB that gets picked in the first round. If it was just about talent we wouldn’t see busts or under achievers but we do because it is about a lot more than talent. Experience at the College level isn’t a guaranteed indicator of pro success but it slants substantially more to that side. One year starters in College going in the first round are extremely rare and for good reason.
Its definitely a risk. But then Murray only started 1 year.
The only reason he is a one year starter though is because of COVID. Not his fault. He started as a RS Freshman, which is a good sign, and dominated, which is an even better sign.
As you say, he has the talent. He’s highly intelligent. Reportedly a very good worker and leader. He dominated in his 1 year as a RS Freshman. That’s a combo I am willing to take a risk on.
It’s been a cardinal sin, but I agree with, Scooter. His elite traits are worth the risk, and exactly why you commit the sin….
If Lance has all the tools, why do you not see him as a franchise QB?
I feel like he doesn’t use them well enough, and his style of play will require him to play in a system that can negate his weaknesses.
Matt Barrows Retweeted
Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
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8m
Free-agent S Obi Melifonwu, the Raiders’ second-round pick in 2017, is signing with the San Francisco 49ers, per his rep
@seanstellato
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Raz,
Is this an indication that the 49ers let Tartt walk?
Btw, Obi is basically TC fodder at this stage in his career. He’s never been able to show any semblance of his college play.
Another one of those risk vs. reward players that couldn’t stay healthy.
I think they already have Tartt’s replacement in Moore. The safety positions are interchangeable. Weak draft class for safety. Maybe they can take a flyer on a developmental prospect in round 5….
Another possibility is he is a replacement for the hybrid role Harris was used in this season.
I’ve been impressed with the force of Moore’s hits when tackling. He’s pretty coiled, low to the ground as he comes in for the pop. Might be second on the defense behind Warner in that category….
I was actually talking about Harris where he played at LB at times after Alexander was traded.
Yep, I was just sharing my thoughts regarding the violence Moore displays when arriving for the tackle.
Hmm, I wonder if they are angling to draft his brother, Ifeatu.
I prefer the option of sitting pat (or potentially moving up a few spots) to draft Trey Lance, but I wouldn’t strongly object to either one of these two scenarios.
Prior to Fields legendary performance vs Clemson, I had Fields potentially falling to the 49ers (provided the 49ers remained with a top 12 pick) even though Fields had the obvious edge in terms of level of competition. In terms of skill sets, I personally have Fields and Lance dead even and ranked 2a and 2b in the QB prospect hierarchy (with Wilson at #4), so I would prefer that Kyle finally gets “his guy” without giving up the farm in order to move up.
Now it’s looking like Trey Lance is slotted solidly as the #4 QB prospect, and in potentially just the right range in terms of where the 49ers will be drafting.
Draft Lance, re-sign QB Josh Johnson to mentor Lance during the off-season, while also potentially filling the roll of bridge QB for the first half of 2021, this way Kyle can get his guy AND save a ton of money at the QB position, WITHOUT sacrificing the upcoming season.
I think it’s unlikely Lance falls into their lap based on supply and demand. The Jets will either take a qb or trade out for a team needing one. Miami is next and could be in a prime position to do the same thing. In order to get Lance you would more than likely need to move up above the Panthers, and perhaps the Lions, which would mean a deal with either the Eagles or preferably, the Bengals to insure you get him. Or if you have balls of steel, you could sit still and hope he falls. If he doesn’t you go with the best bending edge rusher on the board, which would probably be, Azeez Ojulari, (I sing his last name like Dean Martin’s song, Volare) outta Georgia, and then target Mac Jones in round 2. I’ve been convinced for weeks that he’s the qb Shanny would be tickled pink in procuring….
Mac Jones’ availability as a round 2 pick (potentially) seems to be setting up as the wildcard. The more viable options for drafting a QB the better. I personally would like the 49ers next QB to have some mobility to his game, even if it’s only at the level of what we have seen from CJB over the last couple games, or even Garoppolo’s mobility before he blew up his knee. Is Mac Jones that mobile? He might be. I’ll be interested to see how he moves at the combine or his pro day.
I think he is or could be. I do not believe he’s a 1st round talent, but he’s going to remind Shanny of Cousins. Getting him with their 2nd round pick would be where I’d value him, because he doesn’t really possess any elite trait that you can point to. It would not surprise me to see either of Jones or Trask being that 5th qb that a team always moves up into the bottom half of the 1st round for. Overdrafting but getting that 5th year option on their guy….
From what I have seen of Jones I would say he is around the same mobility as JG pre knee injury, which is enough. And he has the athleticism to pass accurately on the move either left or right within 10-15 yards of the LOS (just don’t ask him to launch a 30 yarder downfield on the run).
While I would not be at all upset with the 49ers taking him late round 1, I have a feeling he will fall to the 2nd (or even 3rd) round. When you look at the history of QBs that get taken in the 1st, they almost all have physical traits that match what coaches think a franchise QB needs to have, in particular a big arm. And I think Jones falls just below what coaches desire in that regard. He looks more like a guy that would typically get drafted round 2-4. There are a few exceptions of guys with weaker arms being taken late 1st round though, so I could easily see that scenario too given the number of teams needing a QB.
Trask falls in the same category for me. I actually think he will fall even further though – his arm will worry teams. I won’t be surprised at all if he falls to round 3 (or lower), despite all the hype.
I hope Prime isn’t too disappointed. He can pay me now or pay me later.?
Ha!
To be clear, that is not a prediction or something I feel strongly about. But it definitely wouldn’t surprise me and if I had to take a guess I would say he falls to round 3 or later.
The only DE I would take in the top 15 is Rousseau. If they miss out on one of the top 4 QBs, and assuming they don’t need an OT, Rousseau would be my pick if he is available. If not, I would try very hard to trade back (tbh I would try and trade back even with Rousseau on the board), and if no trade partner is available, then take a CB as that is where the value would be at a position of need. And yes, I know they don’t typically look at DBs that high, but you still need to draft based on value.
As good as Trent Williams is, his longevity may only last 3-4 years. I wouldn’t be disappointed if the 49ers use him as a trade piece to garner more picks.
Bill Walsh always felt that you trade a player who still had value. Williams not only falls into this category, but frees up a chunk of cap space.
Not really sure if Williams has a trade claus or not, but if he can be traded in a deal to acquire a Zack Wilson or possibly Lawrence, why not?
Impossible, he’s a f/a. Compensatory, yes. Trade, no.
And in terms of comp pick, the best they can get for him is a 5th.
AES, we all know how important a good LT is, and how much Shanahan values the position. I see no way they let him walk without putting up every effort to retain him. 3-4 years is a championship window, and all they will realistically be looking ahead.
I would be very disappointed to lose Williams. Top notch left tackle who is in great condition and should be very good for a few years yet. He has to be the number one focus in FA imo. If he walks they are in the position of potentially having to fill 3 of the 5 spots on the Oline and while that doesn’t mean certain doom, it is not ideal.
Williams might have signed on with the 49ers because the 49ers were viewed as a strong SB contender. If Williams can procure a better deal in FA with a team that gives him a better chance at winning a ring, well who knows.
I like the ideal of getting into position to garner another pick in the 2nd rd for a stud Olineman who can become a cornerstone for the next 8-12 yrs vs one who is going to cost us a few Brinks trucks for possibly 3-4 years.
Williams has stated that he very much wants to stay a Niner because of the culture. He doesn’t want to take a chance on ending up on another team like Washington. He has indicated this is very important to him. I think he will stay with the Niners.
I would not be. He is 32 years old, and his Pro Bowl status has just made him one of the highest paid O linemen in the league. Some playoff team with cap space will throw money at him.
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The Niners will not be able to afford him, unless he takes a home Niner discount. If they sign TW, they may not be able to afford 4 to 7 other free agents.
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The Niners should be happy with their 5th round compensation, and wish him well.
Ojulari is gonna go higher than some expect I suspect, similar to Aldon Smith.
Not a top 15 pick for me.
Ojulari reminds me of Josh Allen. Very bendy. Probably the bendiest in this draft. I get Rousseau is the higher ceiling prospect.
I like him as a 1st rounder, but top 15 is too high imo. He isn’t as explosive as Allen imo.
Yea, I’ll be watching his 10 yard split with great intrigue.
What do you guys think of the Paye kid from Michigan? I haven’t seen much of him but he seems to be high on the mock list in most of the ones I’ve read.
I like him a lot. He looks like a guy that is plug and play from day 1, that will be good against the run and a solid pass rusher with upside. But I don’t know he will ever be a dominant pass rusher – more a guy that is a constant nuisance for the OL.
Adrian Clayborn, but one thing Paye said that made my eyebrow go up,
This past season has been a trying time for the 49ers, and all Niner fans. However, I am incredibly proud of this team, and how they fought hard through adversity. They have a championship mindset, and once many players return from injury, they will be competitive again.
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The Niners played the Seahawks tough, and even had a lead in the 4th quarter. While I am sad they lost, at least they now have secured the 12th pick in the draft. From that position, they could stand pat and get a very good starter, who could fill a need, or trade back.
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In one possible scenario, the Dolphins trade up 6 spots from 18 with the Niners , and give up one of their second round picks to do that. The Niners trade back 6 spots in the first, and end up with the 18th and 50th picks in the draft. In the first 2 rounds, the Niners could stay put at 12, and have the 12th and 43rd picks, or trade back and have the 18th, 43rd and 50th picks.
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Selecting based on the CBS rankings, the Niners could select Patrick Surtain CB (ranked 13th) and Alex Leatherwood OT (ranked 45th), if they stay put.
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If they trade back, they could select- Christian Darrishaw OT (ranked 19), Jaycee Horn CB( ranked 43), and Quincy Roche EDGE (ranked 48).
“ There’s a lift to when he’s out there,” Lynch said. “It’s one of the qualities he has that I admire. I think his teammates thrive off his presence.”
That’s why he will be back. He’s a glue guy.
of course we WON the game
So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 4 points ,- add the missed TD to Kittle, which is more than we have. Because we won the game.
Pathetic Paul is sure to mention every single collegian who declared for the draft. He’s getting his usual early start so he can later claim he called it. Same old sorry-ass Seb.
You are just bent because in my last mock draft, I chose Javon Kinlaw. Who did you choose? Or are you one of those gutless wonders who do not do mocks so you cannot be shown to be totally clueless?
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Quit whining.
Grant Cohen wrote a really stupid Article about Trent Willams implying he won’t sign with the niners because he turned down their first offer and wants to test the market. Of course he wants to text the market. Of course he turned down the first offer before the season was even over. He’s already said he would prefer to stay with the Niners and that they can’t pay top dollar. Grant thinks he’d be a schmuck to sign with the niners. I think he will sign but Grant is clearly an expert on being a schmuck.
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Wow, cool post. I’d like to write like this too – taking time and real hard work to make a great article… but I put things off too much and never seem to get started. Thanks though.
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