The strengths and weaknesses of Nick Bosa

Ohio State defensive lineman Nick Bosa runs a drill during the NFL football scouting combine, Sunday, March 3, 2019, in Indianapolis. (AP Photo/Darron Cummings)

Check out my video breakdown of Ohio State defensive end Nick Bosa, who recently blocked me on Twitter.

Note: After pressing play, click on the arrows at the bottom-right corner of the video to make it full screen.



This article has 233 Comments

    1. I am not sold on Bosa’s work ethic. Did he pick and chose when to play at OSU? Yes, I think Lynch is under pressure to pick him but I like Willimas or Allen more.

      1. I’m not necessarily saying Bosa is the right pick for the Niners, but I’m not sure it’s fair to say he picked and chose when to play at Ohio State. He didn’t miss a game through his first 2+ seasons at Ohio State, which equated to 29 straight games, prior to the core injury. I’m not sure how, playing in his team’s first 29 straight games, despite the inevitable wear and tear associated with playing DL on one of the top teams in the nation, is considered picking and choosing, unless you don’t believe his injury was real?

        Would most people in his position come back to finish Ohio State’s last couple games, even though the Buckeyes had been eliminated from FBS Championship contention? Not many in today’s day and age, IMO.

  1. If this guys name was Mike Smith there’s no way he’d have this hype around him

      1. Was it direct interactions that caused him to block you or just your commentary on his play?

          1. Looking forward to your Josh Allen review. I think with Ford as the Leo Allen fits the scheme better. Or at least what we think we know about the scheme.

            1. Wilson, I think Lynch made it clear that he wants power at DE in the wide 9 and probably why they released Marsh who was too weak. Allen’s coverage skill probably wouldn’t be utilized enough to sway the pick in his favor, because the defense plays predominantly zone coverage. If Bosa is on the board when the 49ers pick, I’d be shocked if he weren’t the selection….

              1. Razor, why pay Armstead and keep touting Solomon? You were crazy about Solomon too. We can disagree, I am not in the Bosa camp and don’t love us spending another top pick on a DE/DT.

                Maybe Lynch has some plans to trade one of those players? I am not sure what Lynch’s plan is.

              2. Wilson, I’m a nobody but I knew Lynch would take Thomas and I’m telling you, Allen will not be the pick at #2. It will be Bosa if available. Feel free to blame me when it happens….

    1. What a lousy excuse. Scouts would care less whether a player was the son of Michael Jordan if the skill set to play at the professional level was not there.

      1. If that were the case, why isn’t Larry Allen III a top pick? Ridiculous and offensive to even suggest it’s his name that has him as the consensus top pick in this draft….

      2. Part of scouting is looking at potential of the player. When someone has a father or brother that have been successful it plays into the analysis.

        In this case, they player would be thought highly of, but the hype surrounding him doesn’t match the production.

        1. It’s true if your brother or even father was a great player it plays into the analysis..but it’s not very nice to admit, not pc.

        2. It may play into the analysis, but it is far from the deciding factor. Skill set, potential, and character concerns are the deciding factors, regardless of what bloodlines a player has.

          1. Nobody said anything about it being the deciding factor, MidWest. Just that it IS a factor. Which you tried to claim it wasn’t.

            1. It has nothing to do with the decision whatsoever. It’s like a warranty. Doesn’t really mean much, but it makes you feel good after the purchase….

              1. It can’t be part of the analysis, and also be a warranty, and yet have *nothing* to do with the decision. Even if you feel like it has very little impact. Let’s use an example. Two prospects, both equal in virtually every way, both ideal team fits. One has an NFL background, the other doesn’t. I think the former gets picked. According to you, who claims it has “nothing to do with the decision whatsoever”, they’d just flip a coin…

              2. Your hypothetical is a real long shot. No two players are going to interview the same, fit the same, have the same skill level, come out of the same level conference, impress every staff member the same, measure the same, etc. In other words, the bloodlines or dna of a player is an afterthought. Period.

                So let me get this straight, Renis. On one hand you’re saying it’s part of the decision and on the other it’s a flip of the coin. Do I have that right?

              3. No no no, Razor. On one hand (the right one), I’m saying bloddlines plays a role in analysis. On the other, I’m saying YOU are saying it is meaningless. Because that is what you said. The example I gave was to illustrate how I think two evenly matched prospects would have a tie breaker applied, and how you, as per your claim that it “means nothing whatsoever”, haven’t given any sort of tie breaker based on something of substance between them (hence, the coin flip). When you say it means nothing at all, you’re saying it isn’t even useful enough to serve as a tie breaker.

                Comprende, Razor?

              4. Renis, you and I have two different definitions of what goes into making a decision. A flip of a coin is not one of them. Chance is not part of an evaluation. Not only that, as I pointed out, the odds of two players being “tied” after the final analysis is so minute, that it isn’t worth discussing….

              5. I don’t think it’s as minute as you say, Razor. You can like different players, for different reasons. Is the idea that the Niners might be torn between Bozo and Allen really such a stretch, that the notion Bozo’s “NFL Pedigree” (read: his similarly injury-prone brother (who has better character than Nicky)) might result in him being picked over Allen, rightly or wrongly, is too far out there to bear even thinking about? If you say so…

                By the way, I’m still waiting on exactly what it is that you love so about Bozo. Do you just have a thing for short arms and poor vert jumpers?

            2. Jack claimed that Bosa would not has the hype around him if he had a different last name, and that just is not true.
              If he had the name but played like Jane, Bosa would not be looked at the same.

              1. Like I said, why isn’t Larry Allen III being talked about as a top pick. He has the bloodlines. He has the name. Something’s awry….

              2. “If he had the name but played like Jane”

                “Like I said, why isn’t Larry Allen III being talked about as a top pick. He has the bloodlines.”

                Please show me where I stated that the player isn’t good. Of course there has to be talent to be in the conversation. In this case the production of the player doesn’t match the hype that has surrounded him since last offseason.

                The bump from being say #3/4 as an edge prospect to #1 is what his brother has accomplished and that being projected onto him. What’s being overlooked is that Nick’s college production doesn’t match up.

                Burns and Sweat are much more comparable to Joey in terms of actual results.

              3. Yeah, but Burns and Sweat aren’t related to Joey Bosa, so I don’t trust their bloodlines.

              4. Say what you will, but I will not embarrass myself by questioning a guy like Gil Brandt. If he isn’t concerned about his college production, why should I be?

                I’d love to hear old Gil’s response to your assertion that the Bosa name is why Nick is rated as high as he is….

              5. Grant, are you suggesting there’s a bloodlines conspiracy? Wow, I did not know the Bosa’s were so powerful. They’ve managed to buy off almost everyone but you and Hammer. Bravo! ?

              6. I’m saying people are overlooking Nick’s long list of negatives because his brother is Joey.

              7. Grant Cohn says:
                March 19, 2019 at 5:35 pm
                It’s the same reason Chris Long was the second pick in 2008. Bloodlines.

      3. I completely disagree Mid.
        Scouts absolutely take bloodlines into account and there are some legitimate reasons for it.
        Whenever you draft someone this high you are really splitting hairs.

        1. Since when did NFL bloodlines become a detriment? It’s nothing more than a cherry on top of an already accomplished prospect. Nothing more, nothing less….

    2. Top Edge Prospects Per Game Production:

      Bosa: 2.7 tkl. 1.0 tfl. .6 sacks
      Allen: 5.2 tkl. 1.0 tfl. .75 sacks
      Oliver: 6 tkl. 1.66 tfl. .42 sacks
      Burns: 3.7 tkl. 1.2 tfl. .71 sacks
      Sweat: 3.9 tkl. 1.13 tfl. .87 sacks
      Ferrell: 3.8 tkl. 1.15 tfl. .61 sacks

  2. Grant.. clip 2 is not setting the edge as you suggested but yet clip 3 Bosa DOES do an excellent job setting the edge which you called a bullrush…

    Stopped watching right there.

    1. Cannot stand watching Grant give praise. You would have thrown a hissy fit , watching Bosa get knocked down in the later clips.
      You bring nothing to this site.

        1. I cringed when he used the ball point pen, thinking that was a good/bad way to mar the screen. The pointer was fine, to me.

      1. seb, way to be a bully!!! considering ive watched most regulars here gang up on you over the years for sniffing kaps jock strap…….its especially low! shame on you! your whats wrong with society today!!!! you got from the victim to the bully first chance you get!!!!!! no compassion even though you used to be “that guy “…..getting shi from everyone!!!!! first chance you do to others what was unfortunately done to you!

        and its whats wrong w this blog!!!!! someone new comes along and they get ignored if the have any clue of what their talking about or talked down upon if they show any ignorance!!!

        bunch of ugly old guys drinking coffee every morning at mcdonalds……mad that ppl actually come in and buy food!!
        were a family of niners fans…we should treat each other better.

        1. I gotta laugh. I have been put down and vilified to no end, but heavens forbid if I do that to another poster.
          BTW, I still get put down incessantly, but I do not let them get to me. They have learned their lesson, and try every so often, but it makes them look bad, so they stop, generally.
          Also, maybe you have not been cognizant of the fact that I generally have been supportive of Grant, and we do not see the ad hominem attacks, like we used to. I just saw another closed minded individual, attacking Grant even while he was being positive, then not bothering to watch anymore.
          However, I also do not consider myself a toady, so I make it a point to add some constructive criticisms, while also disagreeing with his arguments. Grant can be wrong at times, and he can improve. Yet, I am happy when he imparts his wisdom detailing the clips which are informative and illuminating.
          This blog is just fine, and there are some new posters who do bring a lot to this site. So far, this has been an enjoyable off season, and am eagerly anticipating the draft.
          Ugly old men? Speak for yourself. Drinking coffee at MacDonalds? I would not deign to sip that bilgewater. Complaining about others eating? Nothing further from the truth. I like nothing better than frying some bacon, brewing up a strong pot o’ Joe, frying 2 eggs sunnyside, and dipping the yolks with sliced sourdough bread. Then having a couple puffs and sitting down to peruse the blogs. I am not going to waste my time driving to MacDonalds to grouse about other patrons.
          Lighten up, Francis. Maybe you should take your own advice, and treat others better.

          1. I think he’s one of the old times hanging out at McD’s getting his senior cup of mud. J needs to chill, too wound up. Seems Alf only wants to see good and can’t stand anybody pointing out any facts to the contrary or faults of china doll Bos.

          2. “Learned their lesson……….”

            THIS is why your worth millions, Old Bean! Your the prize at the bottom of the Cracker Jacks box!!!!
            Your insults are candy to me!

  3. Grant, I like the analysis. Thank you for putting it together.

    I think Bosa is a very high-quality player that will improve a lot with coaching. But like others, I wonder how much is based on his name and how much is based on feasible upside.

    Bull rush is only going to get you so far in NFL, because other players are strong too; kind of like a MLB pitcher that can throw 95 mph.

    Speed will be key for the edge rusher; and I’m concerned with an inconsistent first step. He looked too wide in a couple clips you showed; and I’m wondering whether that’s a coaching problem or a confidence issue (“I’m not strong enough to move him, so I’m going to make it a foot race?).

  4. Good start for analysis, but it looks like he plays a different spot every play. The last play looks really bad, as if he gave up before he started. It would help to show when in the game these plays are. Are they chronological, random or backward? 1st,2nd, 3rd, 4thQ?
    It would help to see if he gets better in a game or worse.
    Dee wants to know.

  5. You completely whiffed on the things that make Nick Bosa so good Grant. For shame.

    Yes, he’s a good athlete. Very good, though he’s certainly not the best pure athlete in this draft. In fact, I have my doubts with his fit as an OLB in a traditional 3-4 D. But a 4-3? Oh yah! 31.9 win rate in 2018, best in the FBS. What makes him so good as a DE? An elite first step, fantastic football awareness, a relentless motor, raw power, and a huge arsenal of pass rushing techniques.

    I love this first video from The Draft Network, prospect battle Josh Allen vs Nick Bosa. The guy on the left reminds me of a yoked up Grant Cohn, leaning on stats. I got a kick out of it:

    And, I had to post another laser pointer for you Grant:

    1. Bosa doesn’t have an elite first step — he times the snap well. He’s not explosive. And he doesn’t have great field awareness. He lost track of the ball four times in that game against Oklahoma. He’s a tight-hipped athlete who falls down a lot.

      I didn’t see an elite arsenal of pass-rush moves against Oklahoma’s lengthy offensive tackles. I saw one good move — his power to speed. The rest of his moves were ineffective and he didn’t show counters.

      1. I’d disagree that he’s not explosive, and his first step is deep enough to read and counter what the OT does.

        1. 33.5-inch vertical jump is not explosive. If he were explosive, he’d be able to beat an NFL-quality tackle with a speed rush.

            1. His vert is 57th percentile among DEs who’ve worked out at the Combine throughout the years. His arm length is 26th percentile.

              1. That’s fine and dandy but how do you account for the amount of real estate he covers in his first 3 steps?

              2. He doesn’t cover that much ground with his first three steps. He times the snap well.

              3. Those twitter videos it looks like he times the snap and in one you couldn’t see the snap. He bull rushes well and has a good power move but takes 5-8 steps to the qb. Couple videos shows him not touched for a 5 step sack and 5 step tackling the rb.

              4. I have generally been slightly for Bosa over every other DE but I do find a few things interesting.

                1. Bosa was announced as the top player at the edge with a very small sample size (TDN). He then got injured early in the season so it’s not like the sample size increased by much.

                2. To his credit, he did look unstoppable at the start of this season but it must be noted that the early games on their schedule were against the absolute dregs of the NCAA.

                3. It must also be said that no one dominated their Poor competition (stats wise), as well as Bosa, did, not Allen, Sweat, Burns or anyone else. Is this because his superior technique allows him to shine when playing inferior talent more so than those with greater athletic traits?

                I think he is a very good player but I also think there is far more risk involved than all these draft guru’s are leading us to believe due to the sample size and quality of opposition.

            1. BTW, the 49ers have their “speed rusher”, his name is Dee Ford!

              The question for me is ….. would they do better with a DE/OLB like Josh Allen, who is good at dropping into coverage, or a pure, well rounded DE like Bosa, equally adept at stopping the run?

              Only the Niners can answer that question.

              1. Funny he’s already blocked you, wow, is he that sensitive.? Razor might of warned him of you. Great breakdown video’s and periscopes. Can’t wait for camp videos later, just not the blaring music.

              2. “He times the snap well” – I looked to me that he times the movement of the player he’s attacking well. He was often not the first guy to move and sometimes the last. His skill in the film I’ve seen is attacking his opponent before they have properly set up to execute. I would liken his skill to judo – using his opponents’ momentum against them. I haven’t seen enough film but it looked to me in the film I saw that all OS linemen were focused on the nearest man instead of the ball moving. If you’re good at timing the snap, you’re off at the same time as the NT or faster. Bosa rarely is. Dee Ford is very good at timing the snap – which leads to a lot of neutral zone infractions. Doubt Bosa had any. –

              3. That’s really lame of Bosa to block you, whiner. Can’t take anybody pointing out good things and some faults. Big ego.

              4. With Bozo blocking Grant, James, we have all the information we need on how he would be in an NFL locker room. Would probably walk out, stamp his feed and demand a trade if a player gave him any sort of banter. Not what the Niners need.

              5. Yes Renas is does say something or how sensitive and maybe hard headed he might be playing for a team. I also agree wondering how will he be in a locker room or if he stubbed his toe he might go up to the coach and say ..’hey I’m not feeling it, I’m out’.. and sit on the bench. Never now with this guy now.

      1. You are such an idiot. The forty is useless for d lineman because they will never run 40 yards. Bosas 10 yard split was as good as anybody. I was a head coach for a high school football team for 30 years and I have to say 49 reasons is right on the money. That is a very objective evaluation of Bosa.

        1. Believe it or not, they need speed to get to the QB. If Kyler Murray becomes the Cards QB, he will run circles around Bosa, just like Russell Wilson will do, too.
          Montez Sweat is only 6 pounds lighter, and he ran a 4.41 forty. Now THAT is elite speed.
          Quinnen Williams is only 4 one hundredths slower than Bosa, but out weighs him by 37 pounds.’.
          Allen runs a 4.63 forty, and his tape shows he can turn the edge and get to the QB. Thus the 17 sacks.
          I watched 2 clips of Grants, and it showed Bosa getting pushed to the ground. Maybe while you were a HS coach, you did not teach the pass rushers to keep their feet, or did you not mind that the pass rusher gets over whelmed so easily?
          Looks like Bosa is a workout warrior, and has worked hard on the agility drills, but that did not show on the game film I watched. In fact, Taron Vincent was the one who caused the sack in one sequence and had the tackle for loss., not Bosa.
          49 objective? Well according to 49, Connor Cook should have been in a Pro Bowl by now.

          1. From linked article: “However, if you had to pick an event that might “matter most” when it comes to hinting at a player’s future NFL production, you’d be hard-pressed to find a stronger correlation than that between the 3-Cone Drill and elite sack artists.”

            Bosa’s 3 cone was fast, particularly for his size. His 20 yard was 3rd fastest among Edge & DL. The 2 guys faster were 10lbs lighter. In those two drills, he was Khalil Mack fast.


              1. Montez Sweat had better numbers, too. Hope his heart condition is not serious. Guess it was not serious enough to stop him from participating in the Combine.

              2. Sebber, the doctors have determined no Sweat when it comes to Montez’s heart condition.

              3. Sweat may still drop a few spots or out of the top 10. Maybe not or he can slide a bit more than we think.

              4. Hah, true. But he’s not an edge rusher! Maybe Baalke was right about something – you need long arms on linemen.

      2. That speed is fast for a lineman, lol. His vert was only 33″, same as his arm length. He times the snap well and has a decent first step and power move, he’s not explosive.

    2. 49, good post! you make most of my case for me!
      athleticism alone is only about 1/4 of the equation. we see some of the greatest athletes every year become some of the biggest busts!! and that ‘cuz guys like you put too much stock into one piece of the puzzle!

      this is the puzzle!!

      you could argue that at this stage, athleticism is the least important……for the simple fact that everyone in the NFL are tremendous athletes!!!
      I played TE, my shorter bf played guard…..I watched him use his technique, motor and intelligence to dominate far larger, more athletic guys!

      1. Exactly j, well said! Nick Bosa’s best quality is his ability AS A FOOTBALL PLAYER. He happens to be great at playing DE! I’d say he’s even a natural.

        Cheers. GO NINERS!

        1. And I don’t use the term “natural” lightly. And when I refer to him as a natural, that’s not to imply that he hasn’t worked hard to became great. He’s clearly put in the hard work. And his DL Coach at Ohio St, Larry Johnson, is one of the best, IMO.

          1. “As the sons of a former NFL defensive end and the nephews of another, many assume that the brothers’ (Joey & Nick) success is simply God-given. However, it’s the masterful technique that has come under Johnson’s instruction that separates the duo from their peers.”

            According to Oh St. DL Coach, Larry Johnson Sr., there are five essential elements required for a defensive lineman to be successful on any given play:


            “As he has shared at multiple coaching clinics over the years, including Ohio State’s own in which he relegated the offensive coordinator to the second stage, these five elements must be drilled on a daily basis. Through the years, he’s developed countless methods of training these techniques, which are evident in the younger Bosa’s play on gamedays”.

            Tons of great athletes at the NFL level. What separates the great football players from the great athletes is fundamentals!

            1. By the time a well coached athlete makes it to the NFL, the fundamentals of the game become second nature. The best players will be the first to tell you themselves, it’s the fundamentals and technique that sets them apart. Dee Ford explained why he’s so good at forcing turnovers. He chalks it up to the muscle memory he’s developed over the years. Football becomes second nature for the best players. For a RB it’s probably vision. For a WR it’s hands and route running. For a QB it’s the ability to process information quickly/efficiently and pass the ball accurately. For an OL, it’s about about footwork and technique above all else.

              And as Larry Johnson says, for a DE, it’s about stance, attack, neutralize, escape & pursuit. If you can do those 5 things exceptionally well then you can probably pressure the QB consistently, whether you’re Elvis Dumervil at 5’11” 250 lbs, 32″ arms (2x- NFL All-Pro, 105.5 career sacks, including 17 sacks in two different seasons), Kevin Greene at 6’3″ 250 lbs, 33″ arms (3x- NFL All-Pro, 160 career sacks), or Nick Bosa at 6’4″ 266 lbs, 33″ arms.

              1. Of course, one more thing I should probably reiterate is Bosa’s motor. Some NFL players take plays off and some guys just seem to play harder than others. When he’s on the field, Nick Bosa’s motor runs as red hot as any player I’ve seen. He is absolutely relentless in pursuit of the football.

                Some people have questioned how badly he wants to play. Well, all I’ve heard is that he loves football, and has that competitive edge you look for in a professional athlete. He sure plays hard, no doubt about that. All gas, no brakes, right? Absolutely relentless! Sure, he missed most of his junior season, but his injury was, by all accounts, a ligament injury. Before he suffered the core injury, he hadn’t missed a game in 2+ seasons, which was the span of his entire college career. Not one game, prior to the injury, despite all of the bumps and bruises that come with playing DL in the Big Ten, on one of the best teams in the country. I mean, all the Buckeye’s di was win the Big Ten Championship followed by the cotton Bowl.

                How good was Bosa in the cotton Bowl? Bosa delivered one of the most dominating defensive performances of the 2017 college season, registering a staggering two sacks, two QB hits, 10 hurries and 14 total QB pressures, according to Pro Football Focus. His two sacks fell short of a career-high three he had earlier this season vs. UNLV but the hurries and pressures were both career-highs.

  6. Nice breakdown Grant. Bosa certainly doesn’t come without question marks.

    However, I think he’s a great fit if you are after a guy that can play the strongside of the formation and be good against the run while also being a good pass rusher. With Ford playing one end spot, Bosa might be exactly the type of DE they want opposite him. All comes down to whether you think he can be a good pass rusher from the edge. I think he will be, in a similar way his brother is.

    1. Thanks, Scooter.

      Chris Long also was a strong-side defensive end when he was younger. He’s a good comparison for Nick Bosa.

      1. He’s a lousy comparison.

        1st step-Bosa>Long
        Speed to power-Bosa>Long
        Pass rush moves-Bosa>Long
        Plan of attack-Bosa>Long

    2. He’s the perfect compliment to Ford. Unless he’s off the board or there’s a significant trade offer on the table, he’ll be the player Lynch takes.

  7. Allen reminds me of Vic Beasley. Bosa reminds me of his brother. Once again Allen will not be the pick at 2.. It’s down to 2 players. As it should. The only Elite prospects. Bosa and Williams.

      1. Yep, or a trade back. I do like Josh Allen, with a trade back. But if they stay put, it’s gotta be either Bosa or Williams.
        8 days ago I would have been raving mad with the idea of passing on Bosa, but after signing Dee Ford, I could stomach the idea of another interior lineman with Williams’ talent. Great player, great talent, but clearly a redundant pick for the Niners.

        1. Cardinals take Murray and it’s Bosa.
          Cardinals take Bosa and it’s a U Haul of draft picks.

          That’s been my take, and the acquisition of Ford just confirms to me Bosa is the complimentary player Lynch covets….

          1. Makes sense Razor. Plus, they released Marsh, so they are probably still planning on drafting an edge rusher. At least that’s my read.

          2. Or if Ari takes Murray or Bosa…Oak or Giants may call for Murray/Haskins?. At #4 or #6, 9ers still get Edge and pickup another 1st and 4th rd pick?

  8. I might be in the minority but I’m actually hoping we draft Williams. He is the best player in this draft and while he might not fill a “need” he will be a major upgrade over Thomas and Armstead.

  9. Bosa is good, he does have skills, and he would improve the Niners.
    However, there are other factors to consider. He did have surgery, and has been injured a lot since high school.
    He might emulate his brother, and hold out for more money, He might miss all the OTAs and TC, so he will not be up to speed when the season starts. He skipped his pro day, so his loyalties are not shining examples to the Niners. He should have showed off his skillsets, while helping be a recruiting tool for Ohio St.
    The film does not lie. His short arms do not allow Bosa to shed the blocks of the tackles.
    He might emulate his brother in another aspect. Joey did show flashes of elite ability, but during the playoff game against the Pats, he disappeared.
    If the Niners want to get back to the playoffs, they should leverage that second pick into as many picks as possible. Thankfully, there will be some QB desperate teams, so the Niners should not be greedy, and make some win/win deals.

  10. I wonder who will make Niner fans heads explode louder, Williams or Bosa? Months ago I would have said Williams hands down, but now I’m not so sure….

  11. Grant,
    Another nice breakdown. But I would like to see the strengths and weaknesses on Allen as well.

    1. Yes..really good video breakdown of how he and Joey compare. It shows some of the good things Nick does but also his weaknesses and struggles and how it might translate into the NFL.

    2. I posted this video to Razor a couple blog posts ago. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, he had no retort. One might almost suspect he was trying to sell us Bozo Bucks…

    3. Very good review. I’m beginning to have some pause regarding selecting Nick with the #2 pick. Kollmann admits that selecting Nick would give a good return on investment because he is pretty much “bust proof”. Still, the review indicates to me that his ceiling is a “very good” player but not an elite player. Lynch might be drawn to the idea that Bosa is “bust proof” given that Solly hasn’t shown returns yet and Foster was a complete whiff.

      Justin Smith seems like a good comparison. But will Nick have the “blue collar” work ethic that Justin did or will he have a more “entitled” outlook.

      Although I swore that if the team picked an inside DL again, I’d throw something at my TV, I think Quinnen Williams has to be given a look, because he really does seem to be an elite prospect.

  12. Grant didn’t even know who Josh Allen was prior to last season.Now he’s jumped on the bandwagon.

  13. Firstly, thanks again to Grant for putting these together. Total fun. A few thoughts…

    – Everything I read about Nick Bosa was they were good at not showing their chests to the offensive tackle. Rarely squaring up. They angle their torso, as if they were almost slippery. Hard for offensive tackles to get their hands on.

    Your examples show Nick’s not always successful at keeping OT’s hands off him. But I’m wondering that’s the typical situation. Slippery Bosa as the sports world suggests, or gets tied up Bosa as your clips display.

    – If any of you subscribe to The Athletic, read today’s article by Matt Barrows on the Wide-9. It’s easy to visualize Dee Ford rushing the weak side, and Bosa in a 4-point stance crashing down on the tight end. To echo what Scooter_McG suggested above, I think that would kill alot of quarterbacks.

    But the wide-9 pioneer (forgot name) Barrows interviewed said he thought Armstead, Blair, Street, Taylor would do well in that very same spot. He especially liked Blair. The strong side DE was more power oriented. I’ve thought if Williams was the pick at #2, there would likely be a trade lined up for Armstead or Thomas. Now I’m thinking the same thing with Bosa.

    It’s also easy to visualize a good base down situation for Allen at SAM. Some teams counter Wide-9 by having the tight end free release, the offensive tackle kicking out to pass block. But that opens a direct line between Allen and the quarterback. (naturally Allen would switch to defensive end pass downs)

  14. Bozo is the pick PFF guys will go for. Safe enough to avoid major flack, but not good enough to truly change a team. Bozo would be a good player on a team like Denver, or perhaps Chicago. When you look to him yo really lead the line though… let’s just say, historically speaking, he isn’t exactly at the upper end of his craft (for long, anyway). My question is, what happens when it’s December, and Niners are in the thick of the gritty, physical stretch to get into the post season? If Bozo has a niggle or two to deal with, will he play through it for the team? Or will he protect his brand, and shut it down just in case? With Allen, I can see he’ll dig in and gut it out. Allen has more potential to be a proper star, though I guess for some, “good” is good enough…

  15. What do people think of safety Chauncey Gardner in the 3rd round?

    – Reads play anticipation very well with uncanny knack for always Being There.
    – Takes takes instruction so well it’s almost as if coach Kosinski directed his every action.
    – Concerns about his seemingly placid demeanor fade when scouts realize what incredible concentration he has.
    – Sees the “big picture.” Not only how he fits his system, but how everyone else does too.

    – May have trouble adapting to big city life in the NFL.
    – Tends to overlook little details. May have difficulty adapting to the minutia of NFL play.
    – Has been a strict role player. May have trouble adjusting when plays break down.

      1. P. Sellers and others have emulated Chauncey Gardner’s style with some success, but its how Gardnder hits the books and his commitment to film that make him stand out.

        1. Yea, I like CGJ over Adderley not only because of the competition level, and bigger size but also his versatility.

      2. Chauncey Gardner’s quite polarizing. Some in high places see him as a unique force. A few that knew him early on think he’s merely a product of Kosinski’s tutelage, and that he’ll probably vanish in any other environment.

  16. Of the top tier players in the draft, which one is at greatest risk of falling several positions–later in the 1st round?

    I’m not predicting that any of them would, just curious which might be at risk of a fall–even a modest fall of eight or ten positions.

    1. I would say Haskins. For the following reason:

      Cards – might be in play for a QB. Probably not Haskins.
      Niners – Obviously, not in play for a QB.
      Jets – Not in play for a QB.
      Raiders – might be in play for a QB. However, with many other holes, Gruden being relatively safe for a few more years and a deeper QB draft next year, unless they love Haskins I can easily see them staying with Carr.
      Buccs – Staying with Winston one more year.
      Giants – Reportedly not interested in Haskins. Could be a bluff.
      Jags – Too much invested in Foles to panic draft a QB here.
      Lions – Not in play for a QB.
      Bills – Not in play for a QB.
      Broncos – Flacco signing means they probably aren’t interested in drafting QB this year. Might still do it, probably most likely spot for Haskins after Giants, but not too likely.
      Bengals – Not in play for a QB.
      Packers – Not in play for a QB.
      Dolphins – Tanking for Tua.
      Falcons – Not in play for a QB.
      Redskins – Potential landing spot, though with Keenum and maybe Smith I’m not so sure.
      Panthers – Not in play for a QB.
      Giants #2 – Same as above, except maybe a bit more likely to pull the trigger for Haskins if they can get him this far down.
      Vikings – Not in play for a QB.
      Titans – Not in play for a QB.
      Steelers – Not in play for a QB.
      Seahawks – Not in play for a QB.
      Ravens – Not in play for a QB.
      Texans – Not in play for a QB.
      Raiders #2 – As with their first pick, but like Giants, more likely to take him here.
      Eagles – Not in play for a QB.
      Colts – Not in play for a QB.
      Raiders #3 – As with their second pick, except more likely still.
      Chargers – Good chance he’s taken here if still on the board. Depends on what the Chargers are looking for, though.
      Chiefs – Not in play for a QB.
      Packers #2 – Still not in play for a QB.
      Rams – Not in play for a QB.
      Patriots – I would expect him to be taken here if still on the board.

      So Haskins can feasibly fall from a top 5 pick to a borderline bottom of first round pick quite easily with one or two teams opting to go elsewhere at the top of the draft. I don’t see any other player projected that highly that can fall down this far with any degree of reasonable assumption.

      1. It’s looking less likely there’ll be a trade up to pick 2, but not out of the question.

        I had hopes of 49ers trade 2 for Raiders 4+24+4th. At pick 4 49ers take on of Bosa, Allen, Williams.

        But I’m not seeing it. I think Lynch makes a selection at 2.

      2. Broncos – Flacco signing means they probably aren’t interested in drafting QB this year. Might still do it, probably most likely spot for Haskins after Giants, but not too likely.

        Joe Flacco is the Broncos starter in 2019, but the Broncos will almost certainly draft a QB this year, to groom as Joe Flacco’s potential replacement. John Elway isn’t shy when it comes to drafting QB’s. He’s going to continue this approach until he hits on a good one. The only question is who and at what pick.

      3. Murray will most likely be the first pick.
        Jets may not like Darnold’s tendency to throw picks.
        Raiders Gruden cannot look askance at Carr, and feel he is their future QB.
        Giants are keeping their interest in Haskins, low level? Then why did they wine and dine DH with the FO?
        Lions may want to move on from Stafford.
        Bills did not seem impressed with Allen.
        Broncos will draft a QB, bank on it. Flacco is a short term solution.
        Bengals may move on from Dalton.
        Miami is tanking for Tua, but Fitzpatrick will not last.
        Washington will not rely solely on Keenum.
        Carolina needs a backup to a surgically repaired Cam.
        Titans are not relying solely on injured Mariota.
        Steelers need to find a replacement for Ben.
        Seahawks have Paxton Lynch as the backup.
        Ravens need a backup to Jackson.
        Texans need a backup to Watson.
        Eagles need a backup to Wentz, now that Foles is gone.
        Colts may run out of Luck if Luck gets injured.
        Chargers has an ancient Rivers.
        Chiefs need a backup to Mahomes.
        Rams need a backup to Goff.
        Pats have Hoyer. They will most likely draft a QB.
        This is a QB driven league.

        1. I don’t really disagree on these, Sebbie, though I strongly doubt the Jets will be moving off Darnold any time soon, but I feel like I ought to point out that Cassie’s question was about the top tier draft pick most likely to slip. I, personally, think he will stay as a high pick, but between him, Bozo, Williams,Murray and Allen, I see him as the most likely to slip.

        2. If Murray is 1. Maybe Gruden trades Carr, wants Haskins at #2. Gives up 4,24,106 or Giants 6,17,108. 49ers still get Edge.

  17. Nick Bosa is very similar to his brother Joey. Almost the same measurements. The knock on Joey when he came out is what Grant is saying about Nick, always falling down, won’t be able to be tackles and runs slow . Now of course they also both have that injury history. I’m not a fan of Nick or Joey but I started to look at what his brother has done with the Chargers when he has played and he gets sacks and forces turnovers. That’s what the 49ers need right? Even with signing Dee, you can’t never have to many sacks on the team. The problem is the team has been drafting to many DL prospects the last few years. Their really isn’t a true number 1 pick this year since they say its a deep pass rush class, but if Nick gives you what his brother has done in the NFL, I would take that production. I would still say draft Josh Allen and or trade down if its a good trade deal but drafting Bosa might not be a bad idea after all and I would be ok with that and also since it wouldn’t be the first pick in the draft.

    now of course I don’t know his character or how his work ethic is and things like that. I’m sure that has to play a factor. But you also don’t want a soft player on the DL. Comparing him to Justin Smith who was a beast of a player is not all bad.

    PICK 2:  OLB/ DE Josh Allen

    PICK 36:  FS Nadir Adderley

    PICK 67:  WR Andy Isabela

    PICK 104:  CB David Long

    PICK 176:  WR Shawn Poindexter
    PICK 212:  NT Trysten Hill

    WR Preston Williams
    TE Drew Sample
    OG Bunchy Stallings
    DE Justin Hollins
    CB/S Alijah Holders

  19. I like your Mock there Midwest. Problem is that the Niners will not select Josh Allen. If they remain at 2 it’s down to two players Williams and Bosa. The Niners do not put a premium on the sam position. Allen right now is better suited to stay at that position moving forward. Niners are looking for a more stout and polished edge player which is Bosa. Williams is in play if they move Thomas or Armstead. Just my opinion but I would bet Allen will not be the pick at 2.

    1. Agreed. Our Nascar package will be Bosa Constrictor/Armstead&Thomas/Uncle Buck/Ford F250.

    2. Thanks Rebuild. My mock was more in line with what I think the 49ers will do rather than what I want them to do. I went with Allen for a couple of reasons. The first reason is because I believe the Cardinals are using a smokescreen with Kyler Murray and will be selecting Bosa instead. The second reason is because Allen fits with what Lynch and Shanahan have done with their last two first round selections; that criteria has been having little to no contact with a four-year prospect leading up to the draft in order to avoid revealing their cards, while the coaches schmooze up the other prospects. The only two prospects that I know fitting that criteria so far is Allen and Sweat, and as much as I love the prospect of the 49ers selecting my draft crush, I doubt Sweat will be the second pick.

      1. Why would the Cardinals need to create a “smokescreen”? If they want Bosa, they can take him. They can take whoever they want. Nobody can stop ’em. The only scenario involving smoke would be blowing it up some teams ass so they Make The Move up for Murray….

        1. I don’t see that happening Razor. I also do not buy that the Cardinals are planning on drafting Murray.

          1. You don’t see what happening? Again, why would the Cardinals need to engage in subterfuge with the #1 pick other than to inflate a players stock in order to get a team to move up?

            1. My guess is that is what the Cardinals are trying to Razor. However, if the Cardinals are unable to garner the interest in Murray that makes a team trade up for the first pick, then the Cardinals will take Bosa.

              1. MWD, the Cardinals are now advertising the friendly cap number that Rosen would bring to a team trading for him. This does not sound like a team trying to get a team to move up for Murray….

              2. If the Cardinals are faking interest in Murray I think its to drum up trade interest for pick 1. But a smokescreen could come in handy in a the new draft slot if a trade dud happen.

          2. Kingsbury will tie his hitch to Murray. He fits his system perfectly. Rosen does not. Plus anytime a new Coach especially one that is a QB “Guru” some say(I don’t agree) will want his hand pick choice. Keim is on his last leg. He has to go with Kingsbury choice at #1… Which is Murray. Bosa will be there at 2. Even if Bosa by some miracle goes 1, Niners will pick Williams. He is a much better player then Allen.

            1. “Personally, I like Bosa more than Williams but they are in a sweet spot there at No. 2,” Brandt said.

              I will not argue with Gil.

            2. RAW,
              The fact that Murray looks like the perfect fit for AZ makes me wonder if Kingsbury is fielding calls from other teams for a possible trade.

              If the raiders feel Murray can provide an entertainment value in Vegas they might be willing to give up two 1st rd picks.

              Gruden is in a perfect situation with his garaunteed contract so making an entertainment value pick to help put more butts in the seats for the next five seasons and beyond might attract his and Marky’ attention.

            3. I think the Oct 28th interview with Kingsbury helped get him the Card’s HC job. In that he declared he would draft Murray with the first pick, if he could.

      2. I agree to a point Mid. I think the talk of taking Murray #1 won’t come to fruition (mainly because it is such a bad idea). But I don’t think Bosa is the guy they would take. They have Jones and added Suggs, so the two OLB starters are already on the roster. Q Williams would make a lot more sense for the Cards.

    1. Good stuff, Shoup. I’m still confused as to whether or not the LEO is designated to always play on the weak side. In Delmark’s video, he identifies the LEO as being on the weak side in the 4-3 under but on the strong side in the 4-3 over (I thought he simply made a mistake when he identified the LEO as being on the strong side). But in the Big Cat writeup, they show the LEO on the weak side regardless of whether or not the defense is in the 4-3 over or 4-3 under.

      1. The LEO is the weak (Open) side End in the Under. Remember that the “LEO” position is based on the Elephant position that 49er’s George Seifert pioneered. That pass rusher moved around and lined up everywhere. So if the strong side end in the Over is actually a LEO that means he’s charging up field as opposed to gap control. ..if that’s the case the SAM had better be one heck of a force player (and probably should cheat outside a bit with where he lines up) because he has to back up the C & D Gaps while being the Force Player.

        If the Strong End in the Over Formation is not a “LEO” then he’s controlling his gap and spilling the ball carrier to the SAM.

  20. A ‘Seb’ introspective:

    “Know Thyself,”

    Socrates says, as he did in Phaedrus, that people make themselves appear ridiculous when they are trying to know obscure things before they know themselves. Plato also alluded to the fact that understanding ‘thyself,’ would have a greater yielded factor of understanding the nature of a human being.

    Seb, I’ve been gracious in disregarding your treatment of various bloggers since you came back to this site, after leaving because you couldn’ t stand the 4th qtr. heat.

    To be a great pro (a gamer), one must succeed in ‘crunch time’. You bailed when the blogger became aware of your true name, instead of standing in the pocket, and delivering the perfect throw.

    6 months later, you came back (after it was announced Shanahan would coach the team)–something I had written that the York’s should consider.

    Be that as it may, the latest blogger–j says, said this:

    seb, way to be a bully!!! considering ive watched most regulars here gang up on you over the years for sniffing kaps jock strap…….its especially low! shame on you! you got from the victim to the bully first chance you get!!!!!! no compassion even though you used to be “that guy “…..getting shi from everyone!!!!! first chance you do to others what was unfortunately done to you!

    and its whats wrong w this blog!!!!!

    “Know thyself,” Seb. Now and them, a cup of chai tea near a waterfall and complete a self introspective before commenting to others and you’ll find that what j says was correct.

    FYI: avoid the McDonald’s coffee, as the cheap coffee cup often leaches into the coffee.

    1. TrollD, just cannot help yourself, can you?
      I am a bully? For what? Did I call him names? Did I disparage his football knowledge? Did I resort to personal attacks and expletives? No, I just pointed out that Grant was praising Bosa, and the detractor was not accepting that, adhering to his fallacy that Grant is always negative. Then I mentioned he did not bring much to this site, because he would not even participate in watching the film analysis. How can he intelligently comment on something he refuses to watch?
      Bullies are the biggest crybabies I know. They sure like to dish it, but sure cannot take it.
      Grow up. This is a blog site, not the Library of Congress, and posters can be polite, civil and respectful, or they can be like you and Cassie. I put up with all kinds, this is not my first rodeo.
      I must admit, you have toned down your rhetoric, and have not gone off the deep end, fantasizing about breaking into gun safes and creating nightmares, so I have refrained from engaging with you. I am sure all the other posters are glad I have been trying hard to keep it focused on football, and have shown immense restraint about Kaep, since I generally do not bring him up, and only return comments after some one else does.
      ‘Now and them’. Your screed would be stronger with proper diction. When posters start misspelling, it just means they are getting too emotional. ‘(a)nd it(‘)s what(‘)s wrong w(ith) this blog.’ Nothing further from the truth. This blog is just fine, and I consider it a must read. It sure generates debate, even on KNBR.
      ‘What j says is correct’. LOL He admits reading for years, so I just consider him another burner account, most likely Saw. The exclamation marks are a dead giveaway.
      OK, back to football. I do not think the Niners will pull off a trade back, until what happens with the first pick. However, I hope JL gets on the phone with Mayock or Gettleman, and have something in place ahead of time. Thankfully, they both have multiple first round picks, so they have enough draft capital to move up and select the player they covet.

      1. Let’s be truthful… JL will contact you first for counsel, then he’ll follow your direction…

  21. There are some Bosa lovers on this site.

    Bosa means “kiss” in some language.

    They’ve been been kissed by Nick.

    1. Do you have any video evidence to support your stupidity? Nevermind, I’ll take your word for it.?

      1. What’s more fun than reality? The Bosa’s are Italian, and their Great-Grandfather was Al Capone’s bodyguard. That’s the real reason Grant, Hammer and the rest are so down on their bloodlines….?

        1. That’s the reason I’m so high on there bloodline :). I was born in Italy and came to this country when I was three. I speak it fluently but can’t write in Italian. My parents are here with one of my brothers. The rest of my family lives close to Florence. Anyway you can’t go wrong drafting an Italian!

          1. I too am Italian and we come from Catania. My last name is Cataldo. I’d like to point out that it’s no coincidence that the goat is Italian too. Joe Montana!

            1. Joe is Italian for sure. He must be Sicilian because he is an a**hole in person ?. Probably what made him so good. :)

              1. Joe’s father’s family came from Northern Italy, while his mother’s family (Bavuso) came from Sicily.

            1. My inlaws are Northern Italy (near Rimini) and feel about the same towards Sicilians as most people do towards Southerners. ?

          2. Gio Carmazzi?
            Sorry, could not resist. ;p
            Thankfully, Jimmy Garoppolo is carrying on the tradition.

  22. Don’t be stunned if the 9ers acquire a QB–via draft, trade, or FA/UDFA. Not to be the starter of course, but to provide a camp arm–and who knows, someone who could unexpectedly shine and press for the #3 (or even #2) roster position. Maybe become tradable in some form…or enable the trade of a current 9er QB (other than Garoppolo).

    One never knows…

    1. Maybe the last resort starter at some point, playing so well as to elicit “Shanahan couldn’t recognize talent if it bit him on the @ss” from the usual quarters. Like that never happened.

  23. Am I in the minority here? I like both Bosa and Allen but I also like Williams or Oliver and Sweat if they trade back. I believe that Bosa is a better match with Ford than Allen but I won’t be disappointed if they draft either. Williams would be a great match with Buckner, like Jack said the other day they remind me of BY and Stubblefield. A front 4 on passing downs of Ford, Williams, Buckner and Blair could be devastating. If they are able to trade back (I don’t think they will be) and draft Oliver or Sweat and pick up 2 extra picks maybe a 2nd this year and a 2nd next it would also be great. Usually by this time I am sold on one maybe 2 picks but this year I believe there are many roads to success.

    1. OldCoach, you cannot go wrong with any of those scenarios and I think it’s a case where even Baalke couldn’t screw up this pick.

    2. Old Coach, I hope the Niners act like they would be happy with any of the players you mention, so they do not act desperate about trading back.
      However, if they do trade back, they could possibly get Clelin Ferrell, Garrett Bradbury, N’Keal Harry and C Gardner Johnson. Grant’s mock has them picking Josh Allen and Amani Oruwariye in the first 2 rounds.

  24. This may sound silly, but when I look at his picture above, I’m struck that such a large portion of his body is muscle. And that makes me wonder about a few things:

    — The most obvious: Is there performance enhancement going on?
    — Will he develop persistent tendon and ligament problems as the result of his musculature?
    — Aside from his muscles, what’s his bone structure like? How sturdy is his frame?

    Your thoughts, anyone?

      1. The size of those quads would seem to mitigate the risk of another acl tear but who knows.

    1. George,
      There are many players entering the draft that have big muscle mass.
      DK Metcalf is probably the most notable muscular athlete in the draft but I don’t recall anyone mentioning the possible PED angle.

      I just don’t get the inference that Bosa
      might be on something because he looks muscular.
      Checking his bone structure sounds like an intense case to prove he’s on drugs.

      You can’t do this to one player without doing this across the board.

      1. Along the lines of the PFF business model, perhaps someone could launch a player imaging service and post the images to a website for paying members only–media, teams, had-core fans. Players would only wear shorts. Photos would be taken from multiple angles.

          1. Me? No. I don’t buy into the ‘mountains of rippling muscles‘ = certain NFL All Pro. Having said that, I imagine many others–including media types–would throw $$$$$$ at the service.

  25. Based on this film study, if the Niners are indeed employing a “Wide 9” pass rushing alignment, Bosa may not be a good idea. I think he could be a good strong side DE even in the Nickel. But not if the scheme design is for upfield penetrating speed off of the edges.

    That first run defense clip (other than the gap exchange), it’s a textbook SQUEEZE Technique which is a single gap control technique that is pseudo two gap control. Inside shoulder into the defender and drive him back towards the center. Keep the outside arm free to defend the Gap you’re in. In fact the play is textbook in how the in original Under scheme is drawn up, the Under Tackle run defense technique which is to squeeze and then release into the backfield. In the original under defensive scheme all of the defensive linemen have the squeeze technique duties (most dependent on if the ball is coming to them or going away from them)….including the Open End. The Open End in the Niner’s scheme is the LEO who plays more like the Under Tackle. In fact I’m not even sure if he has squeeze responsibilities before he releases into the backfield. I think he just penetrates upfield.

    Bosa appear to to need to develop a spin move as a counter to make up for his shorter arms not being able to get off of pass blockers.

    I can kind of see the Justin Smith comparison. As he is now, he’s IMO a 4-3 strong side defensive end that can probably best pass rush off of that side, he’d be a tough rugged try hard edge rusher. Much like Smith was coming out of college and with the Bengals. If he gets even bigger and stronger and with more experience (reading back flow and blocks) he could become more like 49ers’ Justin Smith that could eat up defensive linemen for lunch with brute strength.

    Right now with the 49ers’ with Ford as the LEO that would likely make Bosa a Closed End in the base defense which is currently Arik Armstead’s position. Unlike Armstead, I think they could keep Bosa on the edge in the Nickel package (as long as they don’t force him to speed rush from a wide 9 alignment). But with Bosa you’re not locked into keeping him on the edge or inside as a pass rusher so there’s that kind of nice versatility.

    1. He has versatility, but I suspect he will be more effective rushing inside than from the edge in the NFL. Similar to Justin Smith.

      1. Justin Smith with the Bengals was not an interior rusher….at least not primarily. I’m also not convinced that currently he could pass rush on a regular basis from interior.

        IMO right now, he is what he is, a try hard battler of an Edge Rusher with some skills. IMO, he’s one of those 8-10 sack guys (as a rough approximation of pass rushing talent) off of the strong side. I think right now, I would only match Bosa against specific match ups (slow or vastly under-powered Guards).

        Being able to move him around some is interesting. If used correctly he could be sort of a Big End Elephant (BEE?)

        1. Smith’s best years were as an interior rusher for the 49ers. That’s where he was most effective.

          1. Sure, but that’s not who Smith was initially (interior D-lineman) and that’s not who Bosa is right now. Bosa is not man-mountain strong to regularly take on Guards in the Nickel. He’s strong and can beat some Guards. But IMO not on a regular basis….as I said…I’d only move him inside as a change up or in some specific match ups.

            1. He’s not much smaller than Michael Bennett, who’s an interior rusher. compares Nick to Bennett.

              1. Bennett moves around from the Left End to the Right End to the interior. It’s probably match up specific or a change up to surprise the defense. Much like I described Bosa.

                Remember how much of an outside rusher Justin Smith was even when he got to the 49ers. They were transitioning from a 4-3 defense to Nolan’s hybrid 4-3/3-4 hybrid. Nolan toyed around with having Justin Smith at Outside Linebacker before moving him back to End. Back in those days even in the Nickel Justin Smith rushed from the edge. This type of player that early Justin Smith was and what I believe Nick Bosa is now….is like former 49er Pierce Holt who played multiple kinds of defensive lineman both as an attacking 3-4 defensive lineman, sometimes a 2-gap lineman and sometimes as a 4-3 End.

  26. I have been reading a lot of posts debating better fit between Bosa and Allen. Putting talent aside, if we assume they are of equal talent, who is the better fit?

    Pros for Bosa are that he could play strong side end in base and nickel. That helps keep two good pass rush ends on all 3 downs. Cons for Bosa are that the strong side end in base is already well catered for with Armstead, Thomas, Blair and Street. And while Armstead and Thomas would slide inside in nickel, Blair and Street can play end in nickel.

    Pros for Allen are that he can take over the SAM spot in base and play end in nickel. 49ers are thin at SAM so that helps strengthen that spot. He is also able to replace Ford as the Leo if Ford were to get injured, and they are thin at that spot behind Ford. Allen at SAM would also allow the team to be multiple up front in base, shifting Allen and Ford between Leo and SAM if an offense shifts. Cons for Allen are that in base only one of the edge guys would be a good pass rush threat, as one of Allen or Ford would be in coverage.

    I originally thought Bosa made more sense taking talent out of the equation due to having two good edge rushers in base, but tbh either guy brings a good outcome and Allen better addresses areas of weakness.

    1. “Allen at SAM would also allow the team to be multiple up front in base, shifting Allen and Ford between Leo and SAM if an offense shifts.”

      Thanks for explaining this Scooter. I was thinking the same thing with regards to the offense shifting resulting in the defense shifting from the 4-3 under to the over or vice versa. You wouldn’t have one guy designated as the LEO run from one side of the line to the other if the offense shifts. But having both Ford and Allen “on” the line seems to solve this problem. Right now, I don’t see a backup for Ford if he gets hurt, and Bosa would not be an ideal backup whereas Allen seems like he would be. Allen does seem like he might be a better overall fit, given his versatility and given that the team already has Armstead, Thomas, Blair and Street.

      1. Yeah, on further consideration that is kind of where I am leaning too, cubus. Allen probably is the better overall fit just due to covering areas of current weakness.

        End of the day though it will obviously come down to how the team sees the two prospects, and how they envision using them. If they would prefer to always keep Ford as a DE (which from recollection the 49ers have rarely shifted the SAM/ Leo due to an offensive shift), then having Allen at SAM in base isn’t really that necessary whereas Bosa would provide a nice pass rush option opposite Ford.

    2. Good breakdown of Bosa and Allen Scooter. Honestly, I do not think the 49ers could go wrong by selecting Bosa, Williams, or Allen.

      1. Yeah, that’s pretty much where I am at too Mid. Any of those guys looks good to me.

  27. The only All-Pro level talent in this draft is Q Williams. Bosa, who is very similar to his brother, may be a Pro-Bowler at some point. Allen, similar to Anthony Barr, is the least impressive, but could find himself in Pro-Bowl in 3 or 4 years.

    Regardless, there will be some point in th future, if we take Bosa or Allen, that we will wish we’d taken Q Williams. Other than Donald, he is the best tackle to come out of college in 10 years. He is the only transcendent talent. Bosa and Allen would both be huge also-rans if a Miller, Mack or Garrett were in this draft.

    One thing Fisher did well for LA, he just kept drafting the most BPA despite more pressing needs. Couldn’t coach them, but he accumulated talent.

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