What does 2-10 record say about Kyle Shanahan?

San Francisco 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan talks to reporters following an NFL football game against the Seattle Seahawks, Sunday, Dec. 2, 2018, in Seattle. The Seahawks won 43-16. (AP Photo/John Froschauer)

SANTA CLARA — Can Kyle Shanahan defend the job he has done with 49ers?

The 49ers’ season will end three weeks from Sunday. Their record is 2-10. They won’t make the playoffs, haven’t improved and may even have gotten worse recently. They suffered back-to-back blowout losses the past two weeks.

“I don’t like to grade myself,” Shanahan said Monday, the day after the Seattle Seahawks hammered the 49ers 43-16.

“You look at our record,” Shanahan continued, “we’re all extremely disappointed in that. Always feel like we should win more games than we have. But I’m still going to come to work every day and be the same person. I do as well as I can, work as hard as I can. I take the situation we have and try to get the most out of our players.”

No one questions Shanahan’s work ethic. But the NFL isn’t a work-ethic-based business. It’s a production-based business. Has he produced? Has he gotten the most of out of his available players?

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This article has 545 Comments

    1. sebnynah says:
      November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
      Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

      When the caller of a legend is no longer, what will be your status then?

        1. Sebbie…

          You’re kinda like a Canada Goose…the one which struts about, occasionally honking and spreading a boatload of p**p for others to step in.

        2. sebnynah says:
          November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
          Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

          But you haven’t even been elevated?

            1. sebnynah says:
              November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
              Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

              Go eat some rice! Maybe that will elevate your status!

              1. When the shoe fits….
                Prime=Canada Goose. Irritating honking and smelly output.
                Cassie, you on the other hand, reeks of a stench I cannot describe.

              2. sebnynah says:
                November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
                Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

                These comments are not endearing to your status elevation!

  1. ‘We did not play very well. That does not mean they did not respond to my challenge.’
    Oh, yes it does.Just negatively.
    ‘Magic words do not make people different.’
    It was as if Pete Carroll waved his wand and yelled- Confundus!
    ‘I’m evaluating the heck out of our team’.
    KS is also coaching the heck out of our team.

        1. Sebbie…. You certainly give us plenty of opportunity to question what comes from your mouth/fingers…lots of opportunity. A cornucopia of opportunity…

              1. sebnynah says:
                November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
                Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

                Elevation requires a lot of work! Its not a lazy mans game!

              2. Prime, even though you said Kaep took the league by storm, the Racist Redskins would rather have a woman beater than a social justice warrior.
                Guess they would rather miss the playoffs, than sign Kaep.

              3. sebnynah says:
                November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
                Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

                Cannot make up lies and think your STATUS will improve.

              4. Prime, are you glad you once said Kaep took the league by storm?
                Maybe that elevated your status.

              5. sebnynah says:
                November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
                Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

                Is there a timeline oubhave in mind to elevate your current STATUS?

        2. Seb, I don’t have to. Hes actually telling us the truth. You give us plenty of opines and feelings. Nothing wrong with that. Until you start believing it’s truth.

          1. KS is not behaving like a confident HC. He reeks of desperation, but go ahead, drink the Kool aide. Snape recommends the tiny clear bottle.
            Steele, the truth will set you free.

            1. What on Earth did he say that sounds desperate? And Kool aid is very delicious. I’ll always drink it. Again, you are giving us opinion. The only think that wreaks of desperation is you trying to convince yourself that Kyle is desperate.

              1. Steele, KS challenged the heck out of his players, and they responded magnificently, according to your OPINION.
                My OPINION is that they got bludgeoned, crushed, shaped and humiliated the heck out of them.

              2. Seb my opinion never said that. My opinion never even alluded to that. I never even commented on their performance. You made that up, as usual. But you keep saying that he wreaks of desperation, without giving us any point where he looked or said anything desperate. Thats like me saying I challenge you to grow up. And you don’t respond well. Does that make me wreak of desperation because you failed? Didn’t think so.

              3. Steele, I know a team that gets blown out does not respond magnificently, so I was being sarcastic.
                Techy techy techy. You are a little too sensitive.
                I will give an iron clad moment when I think KS reeks of desperation. Exactly when he cussed out the ref.
                Glad you like drinking the Kool aide. I do not, because of what happens next.
                BTW, I do not think the Niners wreaked havoc. I think KS reeks of desperation, just like any 2-10 HC should.

              4. Steele, you DO know the meaning of -Drinking the Kool aide? Not too cute. ;p
                Glad you think KS, by cussing out the ref, was one of his finest moments. KS admitted it was the wrong thing to do. He actually hurt his team. Personally, I thought that reeked of desperation, and was counter productive.

              5. The Sebber says: “Glad you think KS, by cussing out the ref, was one of his finest moments. KS admitted it was the wrong thing to do. He actually hurt his team. Personally, I thought that reeked of desperation, and was counter productive.”

                Jerry Rice would beg to differ.

              6. Sebbie as mister sensitive…

                Sebbie, did you know that some people who had family members die at Jonestown cringe at the phrase ‘drink the Kool-Aid’? As a self-promoting beacon of sensitivity, you fail.

              7. That is why Steele should not claim he would gladly drink the Kool aide, and thinks it is delicious.

              8. ‘ I don’t think I have to get a penalty or use the wrong language to earn their respect, so it was not a smart thing by me and something I can’t do.’
                JR should read what KS said, before commenting.

              9. “That’s what I want to see on the football field,” Rice said. “That’s what I want to see on the football field. That’s what I want to see at the facility, in the classroom — all of that. Because the players are going to follow him. And, if he’s emotionally into the game and he wants to win like that, they’re going to do the same thing.”

              10. Fly off the handle? Be out of control? Hurt the team?
                I hope KS channels Bill Walsh.
                Brent Jones HATED losing. It was unacceptable to him. However, his worse team went 10-6.
                KS went 6-10. Now they are 2-10. They are accepting losing because KS is accepting losing.
                JR also knows a lot about winning. He never had to deal with losing, except at the end of his career.

              11. FREEKIN SEBS!!!!!!!

                Walsh had constant wars with the media-he hated them and, in his own way, he let them know it. He held grudges against them. He also showed his temper on the sideline if one of his position coaches screwed up–like that late come from behind victory the cards made? You do remember? He was incensed…….

                Want to challenge me on that?

    1. Is there a point you want to make here, or are you just entertaining us with meaningless platitudes? Need I remind you, sebnynah, that correlation does not imply causation?

            1. sebnynah says:
              August 27, 2017 at 6:18 pm
              If Hoyer can play like that, I will not mind if Kaep is blackballed.


              1. Hoyer was performing at that level–at that moment. If doesn’t apply….you slippery revisionist you! You pushed Kaep under the bus…If or not. I thought you backed Kaep 100%….and then you applied an if condition. There are no ifs when standing up for your convictions Sebbie.

                Own it Sebbie…..

              2. IF Hoyer could do that. Obviously, he did not.
                Your pushback reeks of desperation.
                But then again, I might just be smelling the stench of Baalke.

    2. FREEKIN SEB!!!!

      You would be belly-achin about the same thing in 1980==so would Grant.

      However, I will give this to the Seb-skov……………..If we are talking about the same issues next year-and without huge numbers of injuries-then I’ll admit the -skov was right.

      ……………….”otherwise……..we shall cut Sebs into a thousand pieces and cast him to the night sky, and he shall make the face of heaven so fine, that we shall worship the moon and Sebs, and pay no thought to the garish sun.”

  2. I live in Southern Illinois/Kentucky. And even though I haven’t mentioned him, There is a bonafide edge rusher right here in the bluegrass state. Josh Allen is a Freak… And the numbers he has put up this year is in the SEC. Can’t knock the man for playing good teams. 84 tackles, 18.5 tackles for loss, 14 sacks… Man this DPOY work in the NFL. If we don’t have the number 1 pick I still want Greedy, but by damn this man Josh Allen is s monster and a guaranteed pro bowler.

    1. I saw Josh Allen play against A&M. The kid is a one man wrecking crew. I was very impressed. Only thing that worries me is he looks like a bit of a tweener. Not sure how his size will translate to the NFL. We certainly don’t need another Solomon Thomas. I also attended the A&M vs LSU 7 OT game. LSU has 3 players I think are going to be Pro Bowl level players in the NFL – Greedy Williams, Grant Delpit, and Devin White. I always knew Devin White was a great player but what struck me about him during the A&M game was his leadership. The kid is a Ray Lewis type player. During OT when the defense was dog tired he was at his best. He was pushing and pulling and leading that defense when other guys were ready to collapse. He was truly amazing. Not sure if Delpit is coming out but if the 49ers ended up with Greedy or Devin White I’d be ecstatic. They are difference makers.

      1. Houston.. My man is 6’5 260. As an edge that’s not small at all. Comparing to Dwight Freeny who was 6’1 269, and von Miller who is 6’3 249, I think I he has ideal size. Might have to worry about strength. But I think he’s so ideal as an edge. Better than the last 2 standouts, Bradley Chubb and Myles Garrett.

        1. Wow, didn’t realize Allen was that big. During the game, I just noticed he seemed to get swallowed up the Aggies tackle every now and then. Occasionally he had issues separating from the block. Don’t get me wrong the kid was an absolute beast who jumped out at you on certain plays. He does have a lot of Wow to his game. Having said that, there is no way on God’s green earth Josh Allen is better than Myles Garrett. Not sure about Chubb but he’s not better than Garrett. Myles Garrett is the best defensive player I’ve ever seen play in person. When Garrett is healthy he is absolutely unblockable. Think about a cross between Bruce Smith and Julius Peppers only stronger, faster, and more agile. Garrett has the motor of JJ Watt and the character of Sam Mills. He is a franchise cornerstone type player. If you are saying Josh Allen is better than Garrett then it’s not debatable – 49ers must go Josh Allen with the #1 pick.

          1. Steel, Houston,
            Here is a recent article (yesterday) from
            Kyle Madson, CBS Draft.

            “Any iteration of a projected 2019 NFL draft has to have the 49ers selecting an edge rusher. It’s the only way it makes sense for San Francisco to go. A recent mock draft from CBS Sports offers an interesting scenario where the 49ers fall to No. 3 overall and make a reach for Kentucky EDGE Josh Allen.

            Allen is having a monster year for the Wildcats with 84 tackles, 18.5 tackles-for-loss, and 14 sacks. The senior has 28 sacks in his last three seasons. His athleticism, along with his 6-foot-5, 260-pound frame make him, on paper, an ideal edge rusher in any scheme.”

            Allen seems to have all the measurables to find success at the next level.
            I would happy if he fell on our lap.

            1. Aes… Thanks. I’ll read up on that. But heck Allen does look the part. And DPOY in SEC and College football is an outstanding honor and show of just how good he is.

          2. Houston, I’ve never seen Garrett in person, but the kid was great in college so I’ll take your word for it. But that is high praise, watt and Sam..

    2. I love Josh Allen too and will be ecstatic if we get him.

      Bosa’s single minded focus on being in the NFL (ie making money) and not playing for his team scares me. Even though Ferrell has steadily increased his production, I would love to see the 9ers pick Josh Allen.

      If he can do it in the SEC which is the top defensive conference, he can translate that to the NFL too.

  3. How is this on Kyle. We’ve got bums to decent players on this team. This goes back to Balke and Harb days of drafting injured players. Or drafting safeties high and not getting a consistent player for years…I’d argue Reid was best option. Don’t get me started on DL.

    We have a talent issue period.

  4. IMHO Shanahan should be evaluated after 4 seasons that’s fair.
    But they really need to make a blueprint that works.

  5. ““I don’t like to grade myself,” Shanahan said Monday”
    Didn’t he say ‘totally’ ?
    “I don’t like to totally grade myself.”
    When you quote someone, you should put all words

    Click here to read the rest of the article.

    no, thanks

      1. Kyle is an excellent head coach, and unmatched for the most part as a play caller. When you look at film he schemes guys open pretty much every play, this game is the perfect example he has Nick Mullens the NFL’S top ranked quarterback and Dante Pettis responded with a coming out party to coach challenging him to step up shows he still has the locker room. Our D coordinator is a different story but we’re not talking about Saleh…

    1. Using Grant’s high standards for ‘professional’ level performance, Grant is a bust as a journalist. Failing to get a quote 100% correct is unfathomable. Just as having a rookie first round pick have occasional difficulty in one-on-one drills in camp is a sure fail…bust!

      The transcript…

      Personally Grant, I don’t think you’re a bust. But, when you tag other professionals as busts and failures by way of your ‘high standards’ world view, then you have the honor of being judged similarly.

  6. How good is Shanahan? The jury on that is still out. No one questions whether the team can move the ball. They can, but does that mean he’s a good coach?

    He ranks moderately higher than Chip Kelly in offensive categories while he also ranks better defensively. But being slightly better than Chip Kelly isn’t saying much.

    Having lost his signal caller has definitely affected the rest of the season but I think two wins is the lowest of thresholds.

    Going into next year and with two key players having ACLs, will that affect the team too going into the early part of next year?

    From a talent evolution standpoint KS has not done very well. His handpicked QB who he thought was the best of the draft isn’t even starting due to poor play. His handpicked RB is no longer on the team. Many of his chosen players are either not doing well or they’re not being utilized in a way that maximizes their contribution.

    I think in game management has to be somewhat questioned as well. No one can dispute that KS is creative at scheming, but that is only a part of coaching. Getting players prepared, ready and focused is also a part of coaching.

    He has a good relationship with the players but is that enough? He has a good relationship with the media, but does that matter?

    This team cannot afford to do poorly again. I think a modest 6 win season ought to be the floor. Don’t think anything less will be enough to assure that Shanahan returns for a 4th year.

    1. His handpicked QB who he thought was the best of the draft was replaced by his other hand picked QB who he obtained as an undrafted free agent. If we’re going to criticize the guy for talent evaluation (which I do think is justified) then we also need to give him credit for the personnel he got right. Some of these young players are doing well. The coaching staff should get some credit for that success.

      1. Except Mullens is more of a surprise for them than an, oh yeah, we could see this kid was special.

        Besides, Mullens still has very little body of work to properly evaluate. Now, this is true also for Shanahan to be fair. But one cannot think he was handpicked as they got him in FA. They made no draft moves to secure him at all and he could have walked anywhere.

        1. If we really want to be critical of talent acquisition I don’t think the offensive side of the ball is the place to criticize. The 49ers have acquired some talented offensive players through the draft and FA. That’s just a fact. Where they have struggled is the defensive side of the ball. The 2017 draft was an unmitigated disaster. Solomon Thomas, Reuben Foster, Ahkello Witherspoon with the first 3 picks. That’s some bad ju-ju right there. The 2018 draft appears to be much better but that was heavier on the offensive side of the ball. From an outsiders perspective, it looks like Shanahan is influencing the offensive picks and Lynch is running the defensive picks. So far, Lynch is striking out. Curious how much input Saleh has had on the defensive picks.

            1. Joe Williams was a bad pick as it turned out, but it was a 4th round pick where you are just hoping to find depth and it was offset by the fact they wound up with a pretty good back in UDFA. It’s the sum of the parts that matter; not where they were drafted.

              1. Absolutely. One of the few upsides to suffering through an injury filled season is that you get to see a lot of players and gauge how they perform with added responsibility. RB appears to be a strength, both in quality and depth, moving forward.

            2. I didn’t forget Joe Williams. Even according to Grant, Williams had round 2 or maybe even round 1 talent so the 49ers took a 4th round flyer on him. I have no issue with taking a 4th round risk when the player has a major upside to him. I personally wouldn’t draft a player who quit on his team (which is why I’m not in favor of drafting Nick Bosa) but they took the chance. It’s better than taking chances on injured players. I was referencing the first 3 picks of the Lynch/Shanahan era all seem to be bad decisions. Solomon Thomas, Reuben Foster, Ahkello Witherspoon – all defensive players playing poorly. 49ers have drafted Trent Taylor, Kittle, McGlinchey, Pettis, Richie James – they all have talent and have contributed. I’d even put CJ Beathard in there because I think he will be a serviceable backup. The defensive side has had much less success. The only guy who looks like a decent player is Fred Warner. Witherspoon looks like he’s gifted athletically but he’s not a good football player. There’s nothing about him I even remotely like. He needs a complete overhaul to his game including changing his piss poor mental approach to the game.

            3. Houston,

              Unrelated to the subject matter, but I disagree with your comparison of Bosa to Williams as far as quitting on their teams. Bosa didn’t quit on his team. He suffered an injury that was going to keep him out for most of the season and decided he needed to prepare for the next stage of his career. He’s not the first one to do that and he won’t be the last. It’s a business decision and putting your pro career at risk is not worth the consequences if there is nothing to play for.

              1. Definitely true that Nick Bosa has #1 pick talent. No denying that. BUT, I have zero respect for the guy. You can argue he shut it down to avoid an injury that would cost him money. I guess I can understand that to a degree. BUT, the guy could have come back this year and played. Explain to me how that is not letting your teammates down. Not only did he shut down his football season – he left school. It’s not like he even stayed around to help his replacement with film study, or technique, or just for support. The guy literally abandoned his teammates that were relying on him. I don’t respect that. Also, this appears to be a trend with the Bosa family. They are a Me First family. The most beautiful thing about football is it’s a team sport where men endure terrible hardships, pain, and exhaustion to work together for a common goal. The best teams are the teams that play for each other. Philip Rivers played with a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game for his teammates. Emmitt Smith played through a separated shoulder in the playoffs for his teammates. Ronnie Lott had a finger partially amputated so he could stay in the game for his teammates. The list goes on an on. These are type of men I want on my team. I don’t want some guy who’s going to miss a playoff game while his daddy gets his second or third opinion scheduled with a doctor across the country after the first doctor said he was fine to play. I know I’m old fashioned and Bosa’s decision to leave school will not impact his draft status. It’s just that I have zero respect for the guy and I hope the 49ers don’t draft him.

              2. Rocket,
                I also take issue with Bosa’ situation. He made a decision to sit out the entire season after an early injury – ok, I can respect that.
                But if by now he’s healthy enough to play in a bowl game to help his team win, it just doesn’t settle well with me that he signed himself off.

                When I see a player like Matt Breida battle every Sunday on a bad ankle and other players gutting it out with nagging injures, it gives me pause in drafting N. Bosa. It wouldn’t surprise me if Bosa pulls a LaVeon Bell down the road at some point.
                I’m starting to get swayed by Josh Allen’ game the more I watch him.
                But if the team goes the Bosa route I’d be fine.

              3. Houston,

                Fair enough you are entitled to your opinion but basing anything off of his brother or father is doing a disservice to the kid imo. There is also a misrepresentation of the injury status of the Bosa boys going on around here. Joey missed 4 games his entire time at OSU and Nick had missed only one before this season.


                I don’t know if he’s healthy enough to play, but even if he is there is no point to return and risk injury for nothing more than a bowl game. We are seeing this more and more – Christian McCaffrey skipped Stanford’s bowl game to prep for the NFL the year he came out just off the top of my head – and it’s because the repercussions for the players are severe if they get injured in these games. Jaylon Smith suffered a terrible injury which set him back both in how long he took to recover and where he was drafted and players are now wary of that. I don’t see how you can blame them honestly.

              4. “Jaylon Smith suffered a terrible injury which set him back both in how long he took to recover and where he was drafted and players are now wary of that. I don’t see how you can blame them honestly.” Rocket

                I certainly see your point on a business standpoint. But I’m old school and this type of mindset rubs me the wrong way.

                I expect Bosa to bypass the combine using the same mindset. He knows that he likely will be the first draft choice so why even show up.
                Frankly, it’s the “not showing up” attitude that bothers me.
                It will be interesting to see how he treats the combine in February.

              5. AES,

                I’d like to see the players play in the games too, but I understand the decision not to. We are talking about millions of dollars potentially lost if the player suffers a career ending injury. I don’t think it’s up to us to judge somebody facing that dilemma.

                Bosa could miss the combine and it would be right in line with a lot of other players in his situation over the years. Many of the top prospects choose to bypass the combine on the advice of their agents and concentrate on their pro day and private workouts.

              6. Breida and the rest of the NFL players get paid to play through pain, Bosa not so much. Me first isn’t any different than the NFL’s attitude towards players. Nothing personal, just business. When you’re the #1 pick, you have nothing left to prove until you get into the league….

              7. Interesting takes on Bosa.

                However, if people felt that way about him then they had to feel the same way about McCaffery who was healthy when he chose not to play in the bowl game.

                I understand both sides in this scenario. The man in me understands protecting your lively hood and insuring your family will have a few million dollars come draft day.
                The football player in me hates the idea of abandoning your teammates.

            4. EastCoast-

              Walsh made several bad picks, and you know this. He just made more good ones than bad.

              The jury is still out. But if these issues are not rectified by this time next year, then, clearly Shannylynch are not seeing things clearly.

        2. Agreed.
          That’s why I don’t give them much credit for Breida. If they knew he was going to be this good they would have drafted him. UDFA’s can be claimed by anyone and so it goes without saying you are willing to lose them to someone else. Ie Mullen’s and Breida were not hand picked.

    2. EastCoast9er

      Chip’ Kelley picked up the reins of AndyReid’s 2-14 team in Philly, and turned in two back to back 12-4 seasons despite fighting the GM and the owner all through his time there…He was ‘hired’ by the most inept team in the NFL…the 49ers…who hired him late, gave him no Draft s, and no UDFAs….Are you REALLY surprised at his lack of success..? After what I’ve seen in two seasons so far, Shannahan’s coaching group couldn’t coach a cockroach out of a beer can…QUIT SCREWING UP GOOD COACHES AND THEN ASKING WY AND HOW IT HAPPENED…

      1. SEBS!!

        You are clearly stepping over the line, with that last (of a very, very, very long line of) sanctimonious remarks.

  7. When exactly was the last time the 49ers had a 3rd string quarterback throw for 400+ yards in Seattle? I think Shanny has done as well as can be expected given the hand he’s been dealt….

    1. Pretty much agree.

      Grant shouldn’t confuse an objective, full context– view of 9er reality with blind homerism and deep love of the York way.

  8. 49er Total Yards Ranking:
    2014 – 20
    2015 – 31
    2016 – 31
    2017 – 12 (Shanny’s 1st year)
    2018 – 15

    49er Total Scoring Ranking:
    2014 – 25
    2015 – 32
    2016 – 31
    2017 – 20 (Shanahan’s 1st year)
    2018 – 22

    Shanahan’s impact on the 49ers is undeniable. He is an outstanding football coach. He has improved the offense using mostly backup QBs. Jimmy G has only started 8 of the 28 games in the Shanahan era. Shanahan has dramatically improved the 49er offense using 2 Undrafted QB’s and a 5th rounder with less than 2 years experience. The 49ers will absolutely stay the course with Shanahan. I expect there will be changes to the coaching staff especially on the defensive side but Shanahan will get at least 2 more years to run this team. Suggesting otherwise is straight up imbecilic.

    1. 2015 opponents points scored rank: 18
      2016 opponents points scored rank: 32
      2017 opponents points scored rank: 25
      2018 opponents points scored rank: 29

      So Shanahan can move the ball, I think that’s obvious. How are his RZ and 3rd down stats?

      His defense haven’t been great and he is more than merely the OC. Or are all head coaches just evaluated on offensive prowess?

      And before you pat him too much on the back remember that backups were playing the years you had CK and Tomsula stats too.

      1. I realize Shanahan is graded on the entire team. Shanahan inherited the worst defense in the NFL in terms of yards and points. In the first year they improved to 24 in Total Defense and this year they are 12 in Total Defense. The points per game isn’t great this year and that has to do with the turnover differential.

        All I’m saying is Shanahan is a good coach who inherited the worst roster in the NFL. The team has improved in every statistical category and they’ve done it with major setbacks due to injury. Shanahan is a good coach. I’m certain Lynch and York know this to be true. Suggesting Shanahan is on the hot seat is flat out stupid. The only reason to make that suggestion is for some personal agenda because you don’t like the guy. That’s it.

        1. The 2016 team had a defense that was last in yards allowed. There was no where to go but up.

          Yes the 2018 defense is currently 12th in yards per game, but how much of that has to do with opponents continuously being given short fields due to the failings of the offense and special teams?

        2. “Only” reason is because you don’t like the guy….that’s stupid. He’s seat is getting warmer every loss with his excuses plus the offenses they’ve played against this year were not great.

    2. 2014 – Harbaugh, Coach of the Year of 2011. Had great coaching staff, position by position. Fired.

      2015 – The Butcher. Does that even count?

      2016 – Chipster. Does that even count?

      2017 – Kyle Shannahan with new GM: Ended three years of offensive boredom, and almost put out dumpster fire.

      2018 – Warming our hands by the dumpster fire, hoping that health and high picks will help in 2019.

  9. Weather for Sunday’s game looks decent–with rain later in the evening. Hope the field is in good condition.

  10. Grant…

    Not long ago you felt–after being prodded–that 9er players continued to put forth good effort, and that Shanahan hadn’t lost the locker room. Recently you shared Bill Romanowski’s thinking that the 9ers are giving up/have given up. So, are you now on record that the players have quit? Or are you just lurking in the shadows and pointing to what Romanowski says?

    Thanks in advance for your response.

    1. Cassie, I will pinpoint a play that showed they gave up.
      Watch the 98 yard pick six.
      Trent Taylor is a WR. He was chasing a LB. He gave up on the thirty yard line.

  11. What’s missing from this article is “why” they are losing. First and foremost, the QB position. You don’t win often in the NFL with rookie third string QB’s or lousy 2nd string QB’s. QB rating is another statistic, which we all know are deceiving. Kaepernick had. 91.2 QB rating and was 1-10 and last 9 in a row in his last dismal season. How about mentioning all the fumbles, interceptions, penalties, missed assignments , etc. that contributed to the loses instead of trying to prop up the roster like its an all star team. Kyle has no problem taking his share of the blame, and he deserves to, including the entire coaching staff, but in the end it’s the players that must execute and perform. You can cherry pick the few good stats, but as a team, they haven’ttf played good sound football. Too many mistakes coupled with, team wide, mediocre talent.

  12. more with the shanahan vendetta. give it a rest.try reporting some football takes instead of always finding an individual to hammer.

    1. In a way, Grant is a hammer searching for a nail to crush. He’d be doing the same if he were a science writer covering NASA Mars missions or NOAA’s deep dive expeditions.

  13. What would be the most edgy, take-no-prisoners, guaranteed wins GM, HC, OC, and DC combination? Candidates must be alive and are available today or will be/could be by February 15th…

    1. GM — David Shaw (teamed with seasoned, very strong scouting and player development staff)

      HC — Mike McCarthy

      OC — Eric Bieniemy

      DC — George Edwards

  14. Kyle is 6-2 with a frontline NFL QB. That’s equates to 12-4. His two Loses this year with JG were to two possible SB teams. East, your “How good is Shanahan piece” is excellent. I would only say that players making mistakes doesn’t necessarily mean they weren’t prepared, ready and focused. I would say that every player would say they were, but just didn’t execute and perform. That’s not excusing the coaching staff. It’s holding the players responsible, something that man to man they would do themselves. +1 Houston. You also make some great points that are hard to argue with.

    1. Thanks Juan. I certainly agree with the points made, for the most part. Where I differ is on where the responsibility ultimately lies. Yes players are responsible for executing, however they can be benched, waived or traded when they are not performing.

      When losing focus is habitual, you also have to look at the common denominator. When teams consistently miss RZ opportunities that has something to do with coaches.

      Right now the team ranks 31. Last year 27 and the year before that? 2nd. That’s right even though our offense wasn’t tremendously good, they did make the best of their opportunities. This team also lacked talent and yet….

      Now this is not to say that those figures can’t or won’t improve. I have always wondered why Kyle gets so much love. His Washington offenses left a lot to be desired and there is a suspicion that his play calling led to RGIII injuries. Don’t know if he will be a great coach. Jury still out on that.

  15. Ah, yes, blame the players. They are the ones on the field. They are the ones who should be focused, prepared and disciplined. Any mistake, blame the player because a coach was not on the field.
    In fact, why even have coaches? They do not play. There are 27 salaries that could be saved. They are superfluous.
    A 2-10 team? The players own that. The coaches had nothing to do with that.
    Juan, all your years of coaching was just a waste of time. Coaches do not matter. Coaches do not teach strategy, technique or discipline. Coaches do not prepare and motivate. Players challenge themselves.
    This was all said with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. ;p

      1. KS would rather lose without Kaep, than win with Kaep.
        JL likes women beaters more than social justice warriors.

        1. Wow. That last line is abolute BS and completely uncalled for. There is no excuse for you posting that at all.

              1. JL gave a woman beater a second chance. The truth hurts.
                .JL will not even give Kaep a tryout. Another profile in courage.

              2. Sebbie’s conditional support for Kaep…

                sebnynah says:
                August 27, 2017 at 6:18 pm
                If Hoyer can play like that, I will not mind if Kaep is blackballed.

              3. There is a troubling aspect to Sebbie’s conditional statement. Remember that Sebster has continually positioned himself as a champion of social justice. And yet he doesn’t care as long as his team wins.

              4. I am assuming that Kaep is being blackballed, but I have no control over the situation. Yes, as long as the Niners have competent QB play, I will resign myself to Kaep being blackballed, and hope he can play for another team who wants to win.
                I said I was happy with JG, so when he was playing, I did not decry that the Niners were blackballing Kaep. If Hoyer were competent, I would not have been too upset that Kaep was being blackballed. However Hoyer pulled a Gabbert, and benched himself.
                Now that JG is on IR, I think Kaep is the superior QB. Unfortunately the blackballing is too strong. Niners are 2-10, and they will not even give Kaep a tryout.
                This league has amply demonstrated that they will accept DV perpetrators, because they want to win. Big Ben, Winston, Elliot, Clark, Mixon and even some Niners. Foster is the last one.
                It is totally factually true that JL gave Foster a second chance. JL even said he not only likes Foster, he loves Foster, and wishes the best for him. Foster is a woman beater, and JL is giving him effusive praise? Not a good optic.

              5. The truth hurts.

                So does a false statement made by someone with the sole goal of attacking another person’s integrity in order order to justify their viewpoint. There is absolutely nothing to back up your claim. Kaepernick was never going to be a fit for Shanahan’s offense no matter how much you whined about it, and the 49ers allowed the legal system to run its course in regards to Foster. Claiming what you did just shows a high level of arrogance and ignorance at the same time.

        2. sebnynah says:
          November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
          Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

          Starting to unravel there Seb. Your status is dwindling! Cant make up lies and false accusations!

            1. sebnynah says:
              November 28, 2018 at 7:43 pm
              Grant, by calling me a legend, elevates my status,

              I am not the one trying to elevate my STATUS

          1. The answer to that depends on whether you view letting the legal system run its course as giving Foster a second chance or as something that reduced the amount of leniency available to him. However, both answers still do not justify your slanderous statement, regardless of what one you choose.

            1. Ennis accused RF of DV.
              Then she did it again. Niners cut Foster.
              I did not ‘Slander’ JL for giving RF a second chance. That is what he did.
              However, you are slandering all victims of DV by downplaying his behavior. Recantations are not rare, but they are usually done because she got paid off.

              1. Yes you did. By making the disgusting claim that Lynch liked women beaters, you attacked Lynch’s integrity.

        3. FREEKIN SEBS………..going on his VERY selective rants about social justice, trying desperately to recreate ’68………..straight off the Berzerkly Campus………..the same campus that helped create the nuclear bomb!

          Don’t try to tell us Oppy was a victim and didn’t know what he was doing, Sebs. No more of your selective “victim” bilge.

          And, given Kaps last 3 yrs, their is no evidence he would help any team. He was clearly trajecting down.

      2. Christmas song for Sebbie:

        “I really can’t stay (Baby it’s cold outside)
        I gotta go away (Baby it’s cold outside)…”

  16. They stunk before Jimmy arrived in 2017.
    They stink after Jimmy goes down in 2018.

    They have a roster full of JV players in a Varsity League

    The only surprise is people are surprised.

  17. Your articles are getting stale Grant. You keep pounding a view point that isn’t shared by most and isn’t going to happen. Let it go and write about something that is interesting.

        1. Grant…

          That’s too easy. Kinda lazy actually. Yes, some people are in denial, a good many are not. Are you reading every post?
          Don’t mistake differing viewpoints from yours as signaling denial. You are way too quick to draw conclusions. Are you the final arbiter of what’s denial and what isn’t?

          Tell us, what are your conditions for someone being in denial?

        2. I’m not in denial at all. I know exactly what this team is which is why I’m not overreacting to what is taking place right now. You tend to write in Black and White with no context – Richie James had a good KO return so he’s good at KO returns, Richie James fumbled a punt so he’s bad at PR’s – and It overlooks key information in what you are reporting quite often. It’s been a terrible season but that is due to injuries more than incompetent coaching. Most teams will struggle when they lose their starting QB, never mind one in year two of a rebuild with a first time HC and staff. The Niners have lost a staggering number of key players both long and short term that explains the struggles and lack of improvement. If the same problems continue with a healthy roster, you have something to write about, but calling for people to get fired when the roster has been ravaged by injury is nothing more than making noise and trying to sensationalize what is a pretty clear case of unfortunate circumstance.

            1. Grant,

              You don’t know what you’re talking about. If it weren’t for the redzone fumble, punt return fumble, the long kickoff return or the redzone pick 6 the game on, pick a game from almost any week, would have been much closer.

              1. “Let’s get that meaningless debate going again.”

                No need. They’ve proven how much those 5 wins at the end of last season meant for how they’d play in this one.

              2. “No need. They’ve proven how much those 5 wins at the end of last season meant for how they’d play in this one.”

                Nobody argued against that.

              3. “Nobody argued against that.”

                Yeah, that’s pretty much what it was about but people wanted to tell me about:it taught them how to win, would help bring in free agents, and on and on. None of which is reality except in the mind of a fan grasping for something to hang their hat on.

              4. “Yeah, that’s pretty much what it was about…”

                You say/said it was all about the winning streak not carrying over (which everybody agreed with). But then you argued against everything else. Like helping bring in free agents, Sherm signed BTW. We got to see enough of JG to give him a large contract and to not sign Cousins, yet you said JG would have got his current contract regardless of how he played. Sherm also mentioned JG as one of the reasons he signed with us.

              5. Nobody else was going after Sherman, unless you buy into the Lions, and Sherman wasn’t going there. He came here just as much if not more to play the Seahawks than Garoppolo.

                Once the trade was made the option of Cousins was dead. It doesn’t take any smarts to figure that out, and the Garoppolo contract was almost exactly what I said it would be. Again, easy to predict.

              6. Don’t forget they would have won. That game had they had Jimmy and DM! Somehow the mistakes go away magically if those two hit the field and the defense gets better as well (except for Saleh – he’s a terrible coach – even when offense and special teams turn the ball over inside the 50).

              7. “He came here just as much if not more to play the Seahawks than Garoppolo.”

                It was huge.


                “That had a huge part of it,” Sherman said of Garoppolo’s presence with the Niners. “The way he played down the stretch was inspiring, it was incredible. It was poised. Sometimes you can get hot, a quarterback can get hot and then the next year fall off the face of the earth and you never hear from them again. What I saw from him was consistency. I saw poise. I saw leadership. I saw respect of his teammates, I saw command of the offense and he’d only been there a few weeks.”

              8. Sherman knows what to say. It’s like Harbaugh telling reporters his team would run the West Coast offense in his first presser. Tell the folks what they want to hear.

                “In addition, Sherman noted his desire to stay on the West Coast, where he has family (he’s slated to get married at the end of the month), his ties to the Bay Area from his time at nearby Stanford and, of course, his desire to play against the Seahawks a couple of times a year in the NFC West.”

              9. Sherm is a straight shooter. I’ll take his word over your interpretation of his words.

                “Once the trade was made the option of Cousins was dead. It doesn’t take any smarts to figure that out, and the Garoppolo contract was almost exactly what I said it would be. Again, easy to predict.”

                No. JG wouldn’t have been the highest paid QB in the league if he played like Hoyer or CJ. That move would have been unanimously ripped.

              10. “JG wouldn’t have been the highest paid QB in the league if he played like Hoyer or CJ”

                Once that trade was made and they didn’t get a new contract done it was clear that he would get the Franchise Tag at a minimum and that’s basically what the contract is.

              11. “Once that trade was made and they didn’t get a new contract done it was clear that he would get the Franchise Tag at a minimum and that’s basically what the contract is.”

                First, JG is making 27.5 million a year, the tag would have been 25 million.

                Second, both sides were OK with the tag right after the trade. Tagging JG would have been a one year deal, not a long term deal. Big difference.

                Third, JG’s trade value would have plummeted if he stunk up the joint. People would have called him Cassel 2.0. We wouldn’t have been able to get a 2nd round pick or higher if JG sucked. And Cousins would be a Niner.

            2. Grant,

              Take it however you want. I have had a pretty good read on this team for a few years now and I see it the way I described above. We are ultimately going to see who’s right because there is no chance Shanahan is getting fired this year.

              1. By the grace and all that is smart in the world of journalism, he won’t be here next year!

        3. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own den-eye-l; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s den-eye-l. Your articles have become stale and predictable….

        4. You, Rocket and lots of fans are in denial about the state of this team. It’s fascinating.

          Actually, we are just tired of you beating the same horse over and over again. It makes what you post predictable in its tone and what you omit, and honestly, I feel like it shows a lack of effort on your part. As a reader, I want to be engaged in what I read. Predicting the outcome beforehand or after reading a few paragraphs (or in this case a few sentences) make the material a bore and unreadable.

  18. Seb, you are assuming that because the players are making mistakes, which in this league means you lose, the coaches are not preparing them correctly. I’ve said the buck stops ultimately with the coaches, and finally with the head coach. What I don’t assume is that because players cannot perform, it must be and only be the preparation, because of lousy coaching. These guys are professional football players. I get the feeling you had some bad experiences with coaching. Maybe you got cut? Maybe you warmed the bench? What is it that jaded you towards the coach? As for Kyle, did he have a coaching epiphany the last five games of last year, and then resorted back to being a bad coach? Take Mike McCarthy as an example. Was he a great coach when he won the SB but now a bad coach because his team is losing? It’s the players! It’s the players! It’s the players!!!

    1. Juan, my bad experiences with coaching started with the drek before Walsh. Erickson was an eye opener. It continued with the empty suit Nolan and peaked with Simpletary. JH gave me hope, but even he had me grinding my teeth over the game management.
      Tomsula and Chip played the hand dealt them, so I blame the stench of Baalke, and cut them some slack.
      However, KS is 2-10, and posters seem to give him a free pass. Yes, this squad is inferior in talent compared to other squads. Yet, with competent coaching, the Niners could have won 4 more games.
      Watching last game, I felt as though red zone ball security was a foreign concept to the Niners. Wilson should have been coached to go down after initial contact, so they could not hold him up and strip the ball away. Mullens was victim of another rookie mistake. Hope he learns from it.
      What was particularly galling, was when they were on the one foot line, and false started. Coaches should have coached Mullens to do a quick snap. They cannot false start after the ball is hiked.
      Yes, I have seen it all. Good coaches, bad coaches and some who should not coach at all. Incompetent coaches and coaches who I would run through a brick wall for.
      KS admitted it himself. He said JG overcame the coaching. JG was the field general, and had crisp efficient and effective execution.
      It is not only the players. It is the players, being coached. The team is 2-10. That includes the players AND the coaches.

  19. Here’s what we know about the 2018 49ers:

    Regardless of who is playing QB:

    They struggle in the redzone.
    They turn the ball over and put the defense in bad field position or it’s a pick 6.
    They run the ball well in the middle of the field.
    They put up a lot of yards.
    They can’t rush the passer.
    They struggle with assignments in basic zone schemes.
    They can stop the run.
    Special teams is just as bad, giving up long returns or turnovers themselves.
    They have some vets who are living off reputation, not actual production.
    As bad as the top of the 2017 draft was, those spots from the 2018 draft show potential.

    Week in and week out we come in here and say something like, “the game was actually close, if not for the fumble, interception, blown coverage, bad call, etc.”

    This team is bad, and it’s bad in ways that just having Garoppolo or McKinnon on the roster wouldn’t help. The team was 1-2 with Garoppolo, and was doing the same dumb stuff with him in there.

    If this is taken as dumping on Shanahan, that’s fine. He’s ultimately the one in charge as the head coach. All I can really say with regards to him is that it seems like he is an offensive coordinator with the title of head coach and that’s why we see so many little things creep up every week instead of getting cleaned up.

    1. Don’t disagree with any of this except one thing maybe. I think the major difference is factoring in where this roster was when Lynch/Shanny arrived. The 49ers had the worst roster in the NFL. Bar none. Not even the Browns. IMO this started at a 3-4 year project to rebuild talent and depth. The injuries to key players haven’t helped on the road to the rebuild. I’m willing to give time to Shanahan to execute the plan which was never a 2 year plan. In year 2 they are behind where I hoped in terms of win/loss but I have no doubt about Shanahan’s ability to coach. He’s a good coach.

      The thing I don’t understand is you say “they struggle with assignments in basic zone schemes.” Are you talking about run blocking assignments or in pass defense. If pass defense then I agree. If zone run schemes then I disagree. I think they’ve done much better than I expected in run blocking.

    2. I agree with the basic thread of your take. The 9ers are not good, and change–which includes allowing space for making solid progress–is needed (my opinion). I don’t agree that any and all aspects of being close in games (ultimately losing) can be dismissed outright–they shouldn’t be overblown, and they shouldn’t be dismissed.

      We could be approaching an interesting crossroads. Hose out the building in late January–letting all coaches and operations leadership and staff go–and start all over again in 2019 with all new faces. Accompany that with gutting the squad by 70%+. Or, the 9ers could stay the course with some staff adjustments and go forward into year three–working to improve the roster in all ways possible. Or, some blend of the two. So, which way do we go?

      Over the last three months I’ve really wondered about the quality of the position coaches and related assistants and quality control types. Same goes for the scouting department. Any improvements to be made there? I’d think so. Wish Grant would put some effort into looking at that side of the puzzle–position coaches/assistants/scouting…

      And ultimately, we have the York matter. What’s going to happen with that?

      1. Grant has pointed out the scouting issue and the assistant coach issue.

        As great as Bill Walsh was, the quality of the asssiants that he aligned himself with certainly played a large role.

        Similar thing with what Harbaugh was able to do when he was the coach here.

        That was a big part of why 2016 was so bad. How many of the guys on that staff are anywhere to be found in the NFL? How about 2015? Etc.

        If Shanahan can’t fix that area he’s doomed.

        1. Looks like I missed it. Was Grant’s analysis recent? Was his take on position coaches/assistants and scouting limited to a flip remark, or was there a line of thinking shared?

          Not wanting to be contentious, just wanting to know what Grant’s take is.

        2. If Shanahan can’t fix that area he’s doomed.

          Enough said. Is he a HC or a good OC. The $64 dollar question

    3. Yep, pretty much sums it up. Making excuses for the woes is fine to a degree, but the reality is the team has displayed the same issues all season, and there are issues across all three phases of the team.

      Having JG for a full season would likely make the offense better to some degree, but it wouldn’t fix everything that has been going wrong with the D and STs.

      ‘Fixing’ the D by replacing Saleh won’t change the issues the defensive roster has at key positions required to defend the pass. Nor will it change the issues the offense and STs are having.

      The team is bad. Some things have happened that have accentuated how bad they are. The ‘positive’, if we want to call it that, is that given where the team came from in 2016 they should be a bad team, especially after losing their QB. Turning the team around in that space of time was going to be difficult. The negative is that the team is still just as bad as it was two years ago once you take the QB out. Maybe worse. And there is plenty of blame to go around as to why that is.

      1. There are a lot of serious questions here.

        This is a crap roster (regardless Grant’s that if a player is drafted high or gets paid a lot he must be good) so them getting pushed around or beat is understood.

        The problem is the repeated mental mistakes being made by roster mainstays, ie the safeties not being deep enough in single high looks, passoffs not being made in zone coverage schemes. I mean I almost expect a false start in the red zone at this point (et tu Staley?).

        While the scouting department is extremely suspect at this point… Malcom Smith and McKinnon being payed like pro bowlers is a head scratcher. Thomas being drafted when they have multiple players that could fill the same role. Only adding Sherman to shore up a backfield that has a roster full of unproven talent, that cant seem to stay on the field. All of which means they will be going into year 3 of the rebuild with many of the exact same questions they had in year 1. God help them if Jimmy was an aberration.

        In terms of player development… only Breida and Kittle appear to be getting noticeably better. While Ward, Colbert, Witherspoon, Foster, Tartt, Thomas , and Pitta T have all regressed or shown little to no growth.
        Will McGlinchey, Pettis and Smith improve in year 2? This bears monitoring as it will be quite damning to the staff if they do not in my opinion.

    4. Hammer,
      I get it, you agree with Grant.

      Speaking for myself only. I don’t care what label your boy Grant places on fans like me. I’ve been a fan longer than he’s been alive – his/your penchant for negative comments don’t change anything on my end.

  20. What does a 2-10 record say about Kyle Shanahan?

    I don’t know, what should it tell me? The team is losing and Kyle is responsible for that, I already know that. Its on Kyle for the players that are on the team, sure is. Kyle picked James who fumbled a punt and took a fair catch inside the ten, Kyle selected Mullins who threw a 98 interception, he selected the players who allowed the long kickoff return, yup Kyle picked the three QB’s who have thrown numerous interceptions this year, yup he also picked the center who hiked the ball fifty yards over Mullins head. Kyle also picked that guy who dropped a sure interception, he also picked those guys who failed to pick up Baldwin, he also picked that WR who caught a pass on third and long and all he had to do was turn upfield and the first down was there, but nooooo he didnt, and just to keep it real Kyle also picked the guys who have been injured. There is no question whatsoever its on Kyle. He knows it, he owns it, its his team. The team is 100 percent behind Kyle that is all I have to know. (for now)

    1. Yes, yes, and yes. And Kyle picked Kittle, McGlinchey, and Warner. Also brought in UDFA Breida.

      And yes, if the team is 100% behind Shanahan, I’m okay with that.

      Question for Grant… Has Shanahan lost the locker room?

  21. “What does 2-10 record say about Kyle Shanahan?”
    Whatever it says, there is nobody here on this board even remotely qualified to begin to judge his record at this time under the current circumstances — least of all Grant.

    Speaking of Grant, he’s become a veritable pinata on KNBR talk hows. Larry Kreuger ( a bit of a lightweight doofus himself) elaborates why he thinks that “there are two realities — the true reality and Grant Cohn’s alternate reality” !
    It’s the Nov 26 podcast with Matt Barrows, at the 5:25 minute mark and also the 8:00 minute mark. I think Grant is now infamous enough to claw into the Skip and Shannon Show…

    1. Krueger bounces around and his takes often depend on who he’s talking to.

      He often says a lot of the same things as Grant on his show, and just yesterday tweeted out how the 49ers should bring McCloughan in as an advisor for this years draft.

      I think I’ve heard that mentioned, maybe it was an alternate reality though.

      1. Of course Krueger is yet another self-important nitwit.

        Pining for McCloughan is yet another manifestation of the grass being greener on the other side. Scottie is a good, honest scout who made a career out of perpetually betting that only big, strong football players succeed in the NFL. That got him some good players and some busts with the wealth of first round picks that the Niners offered in McNolan years. Not so much success with evaluation of skill position players with the glaring exception of his bet on Gore that cemented his status as a legend to some Niners fans.

        Scottie is not suited to be a GM because he seems to have a sizable ego that gets in the way of taking others’ inputs and working very well as a team (Nolan clearly stated in a KNBR interview two years ago that he and Scottie grew apart steadily. His problems with Bruce Allen is well documented). He’s found his niche a scouting consultant. Hopefully he has his personal issues under control so he can focus on “personnel issues” (paraphrasing Niner FO’s statement after firing Scottie).

        The NFL game is changing and moving closer to the college game. The expectations of the players are changing. I would think there are dozens of better choices of consultants than Scottie. I’d hire Urban Meyer as a consultant as someone who may be able to accurately evaluate the mental make up of young players for NFL success.

        1. All plusses, and I think your Urban Meyer observation is dead on. I was thinking about some way to tap his knowledge and experience–and you nailed it!

    2. Krueger plugs me almost every day, either specifically by name, or by repeating my opinions and ideas. I appreciate it.

      1. Then ask for a job? Go, move on to bigger and better? Why stay here with a bunch of fans who are not realistic about their team?

        You are better than this and take the legend with you!

      2. So you are saying you’re a legend in his eyes?

        Krueger -> Grant. Legend
        Grant -> Seb. Legend.

        Can’t wait to see who Seb bestows legend status on.

  22. Scooter…The team is as bad as 2 years ago. Correct, worse? Maybe, but the rosters now, since all the injuries, is full of 2nd and 3rd stringers who should be special teams standouts, not starting in NFL games that count. That roster 2 years ago was full of veteran laden talent that lacked the offensive mind to compete. Do I think Kyle would have won more games with that type of team, of course. But apples aren’t always to apples. Different teams, same records, but also different reasoning. You guys can call it excuses if you want, but it’s not an excuse, it’s actually what it is.

    1. The injuries are a problem, but every team faces injuries. The big loss was JG. The others are guys the team should be able to replace. There has recently been a spate of more injuries, but the team wasn’t performing before the injuries so using injuries to other players than JG as an excuse is just that.

      Basically, aside from JG, they’ve replaced a bunch of bad veterans with a bunch of young players that currently aren’t much better, if better at all. The good thing is the young players have some chance of improving.

  23. Hammer, you make some great points about the team but I don’t buy your statement that Jimmy and McKinnon wouldn’t make a difference on this bad team. They were 6-2 with Jimmy including beating two playoff teams last year. They were 1-2 this year with Jimmy, but lost to two likely Super Bowl teams on the road I. Two of the toughest places to play in the league. Without McKinnon. Come on! The last Niners SB team, 2012, would probably have lost those games, even with the great Kaep! I think they’d be sitting at 6 wins right now with Jimmy and McK! I think this season proves that Kyle and co. Can’t win with a lousy, injury depleted team. The jury is still out!

    1. You just made my point One.

      They lost to Minnesota by 8 in large part to a fumble in the redzone and a pick 6. The same type of mistakes that we’ve seen from this team in losses throughout the season as I stated.

      They got lucky in the Lions game that another pick 6 was called back due to a holding call on the opposite side of the field where Garoppolo never even looked.

      I can appreciate the whole “6-2 thing with Garoppolo” but as I said last offseason, that 5 game stretch wasn’t going to help them this year and it included 3 bad teams.

  24. All this team needs is a pass rush. Fixing that one area will have a domino effect over the entire team. Suddenly the secondary will not look nearly as bad is it does now. The defense will get off the field quicker and therefore will not be gassed by halftime. The offense will play more freely, knowing that even if they wind up punting, chances are good that the defense will get off the field fairly quickly.

    I wish Lynch had worked harder to get Khalil Mack. He now says the 49ers made as good an offer as Chicago. Well, “as good” was obviously not enough. He should have upped the ante.

    Mack was a potential game changer (Lynch’s words, not mine). They should have pulled out all stops to get him.

    I blame Lynch for this fiasco of a season far more than Shanahan.

  25. “For me, this year has everything to do with next year. I’m evaluating the heck out of our team, our coaching staff.”

    Good this needs to be done.

    “I don’t like to grade myself,” Shanahan said Monday, the day after the Seattle Seahawks hammered the 49ers 43-16.”

    Bad. Everyone on the team needs to be evaluated. I am still a strong supporter of KS, but he needs to be evaluated and he needs to accept the results of that evaluation and improve. Not many people can fairly evaluate themselves, so I hope there are others (his father perhaps and maybe even JL) who provide him with an honest evaluation.

    One of the biggest areas needing evaluation is the poor RZ offense. In my opinion, KS needs some independent evaluation of why the RZ offense is relatively poor (sure there have been drive killing turnovers, but there have been many cases where they are just not getting it done). Still think they need bigger and stronger players for the RZ. Wilson looks good (despite the fumble), but they really need a big strong WR or another pass catching TE (where’s Celek been this year??).

    1. Pretty much agree with most of what you noted. Saying he doesn’t like to grade himself doesn’t mean evaluations won’t be undertaken, and those evaluations include Kyle.

      Can’t wait for the Combine and draft…and all that follows.

    2. Cubus,
      OZ scheme does have an issue with scoring when close to the goal line. Kyle’s team has been up and down over the years when scoring in this arbitrary red zone. See this link below
      “Here’s what Shanahan had to say when asked about his red zone numbers.
      “You want to get your best players involved down there,” Shanahan said. “It’s changed with every team. I don’t know all of my numbers or what they’ve been in the red zone over the years. I’m sure that we’ve had good ones . . . but it depends on your team. You always like to run the ball, that makes it a lot easier down there. But it’s also hard to run the ball because it gets tight.
      “When that happens you need good quarterback play. You need big targets. But there are lots of different ways to be good in the red zone. Being a coordinator for seven years, I feel that I’ve been good in every aspect. But, I’ve also had years where I’ve been bad at it, too. In those bad years, you learn a lot.” “

        1. Average ppg 21. Last 3 16 ppg. Last year 20. This team isn’t. Good at putting it in the end zone. Does it matter? You betcha if you want to win games.

  26. +1 Hammer, Rick, Cubus, and Cas! You all make too much sense. I will say that beating bad teams is just as important as losing to bad teams. Both hold equal weight. I would venture to say that NFL Football is THE most difficult professional sport to win a game, regardless of who your playing.

  27. Grant…

    Do you have a sense for how the 9ers will engage the Alliance of American Football (AAF)? Since the AAF has NFL ties, I’m curious if the 9ers relationship with the AAF will be funneled through the NFL hierarchy, or will the 9ers have some form of direct link–or more direct than through NFL HQ.

    Do you think the AAF–over time–will yield significant player development benefits?

  28. PFF = owned by Collinsworth.

    Not sure if that was well-known or not, but thought it was interesting to know considering that it’s reputation is suspect (mentioned in the A Football Life series on him- about 5-10 mins in).

    1. Collinsworth bought into it after it was already up and running. No stat service is perfect, but PFF along with FO provide interesting analysis that gives more insight at the very least.

  29. Kyle was a late hire due to the super bowl and didn’t have the cream of the crop when it came to assistants. He’s basically rolling with the same guys that he hired in a rush/pinch. There have been no real changes. No team has poached their staff and after this season likely won’t again either.

    I think this is the nexus of the issue–the coaching staff. Shanahan needs to make changes, whether it’s Saleh or Kiffin, or the special teams coach, or all of the above.

    We’ve seen teams like the Cards, Browns, Panthers, Jags, and Cowboys, for better or worse jettison their coaches during the season. Now some of those moves border on scapegoating, but in the case of the Browns and Cowboys, they actually got better.

    Shanahan needs to have a deep look at his staff and make some changes.

    This team lacks depth and explosive, game changers.

    Could you imagine Derwin James or Jamal Adams at safety?

    Marshon Lattimore at CB?

    These are the type of caliber players this team needs.

    If Lynch doesn’t kill the next draft and get some valuable free agents, I would fire him after next season and get someone with some real, front office experience.

  30. I challenge you, Grant.

    I challenge every editor of the Press Democrat to start demanding improvement in your sports reporting.
    You have four games left. I challenge you to make the most of them. Since Kyle Shanahan became the head coach in 2017, you have ragged on the Niners exposing a very biased agenda that is completely unprofessional.
    I challenge you to end that trend between now and Week 17.
    I’m calling you out item by item, starting with your rants about the head coach.

    1. I challenge you to write articles or record Periscopes that do not mention Shanahan for the rest of the season.

    You have lost all objectivity and credibility when it comes to Kyle. For you to continue to assess his ability or performance is analagous to a cat making suggestions about the preservation of canaries.
    Objective criticism is a needed element in sports reporting, but you are not objective. Leave it alone until you are. You can begin by responding to some of the suggestions from your own fan base.
    For instance, you have been challenged to look into the scouting and other means of providing information about potential players. Please do that. I would read that, instead of skipping most of your article and going directly to the comments.
    Find a solution, Grant.

    2. I challenge you to deliver more articles that show depth in your reporting, instead of settling for the “hot read” as your fan base calls it.

    On occasion you have demonstrated potential as a sports reporter, when you have gone into depth about a player or something interesting behind the scenes.
    However, far too often you write like a person who is dealing with the first stages of grief. That is the stage of denial and anger. In your reporting that comes across as blame. The denial that you exhibit, namely a rebuilding team stripped of more projected starters and playing more replacement, third string, or practice team players than any other in the NFL, is not going to win and is going to make mistakes.
    Find a way to write about a lost season that is more original than demanding that coaches be fire or putting demeaning labels on players, such as saying they are “garbage”. You writing has become predictable and boring because of your one-sided approach to reporting.
    I blame you, Grant.

    3. I challenge you to live up to the high standards that you profess to have, but do not apply to your writing

    What in the world do you do during the week, Grant?
    You’re the Press Democrat’s man that is ‘Inside the Niners’and you have no imagination. Your writing takes the easiest possible route. And that is blame. That’s what little kindergarteners learn to do in school. If something doesn’t go right for them, the very first thing that is attempted is to blame something or someone.
    For example, when the Niners narrowly lost to the Vikings, you were full of blame for Shanahan. Your perspective was entirely devoid of any recognition that everyone in the known universe expected the Niners to lose that game and it was the schemes of Shanahan that came close to upsetting them.
    Not only is blame easy, it is also lazy. It takes effort to be objective about disappointing losses. However, you fortify your negativity by claiming that your colleagues, who do the hard tasks that you repeatedly demonstrate that you are unable or unwilling to do, are either “homers” or “not telling it like it is.”
    Well, I’m telling you how it is. You are either so dialed in emotionally that when the Niners do better than expected, but lose, that you have to punish someone; or you are the Miley Cyrus of sports reporting–you are trying to draw attention to yourself with over-the-top, outrageous writing, laced with a heavy dose of blame.
    Your writing is in a rut. You are predictible and boring. You’re failing in every way.
    Show something, Grant. Give the Press Democrat a reason not to fire you at the end of the season.
    You have four upcoming games against teams who probably will demolish the 49er scrub team. Doesn’t matter. Just find something to say that isn’t laced with lazy blaming.
    I freaking dare you.

        1. I recognized the similarities when you ended with the-I freakin dare you.
          However, not talking about KS is like ignoring the elephant in the room.
          Find about a way to write about a lost season without being negative? Look at what the Matts write, if you want saccharine pablum.
          No imagination, lazy? Please, Grant is mentioned on KNBR, and his topics lead the discussion. Personally, I kinda like the edgy hard hitting prose. It certainly captures my sentiments of this season.
          49er scrub team? Lazy blaming? Sounds like you also need to step up your game.

    1. Dis, that which you request would require effort, intellectual thinking, professionalism.

      He is just following the lead of his Sads(intentional)career took.
      The sad part is those angles don’t work in today’s day and age.

    2. You say I’m boring, but I clearly struck a nerve, and you read me every day, and this article is the second-most read article on the Press Democrat’s website. You can’t handle the truth.

  31. +1,000,000 Dis
    That is the best I’ve read on this sight in the two years I’ve joined in. You said what many on here, including myself. have thought , but couldn’t put it down without coming off as being. I don’t know the right word, ummm bullying or anti Grant? Absolutely perfect. I hope he accepts the challenge! I doubt it, but I hope!

  32. What’s the big deal with what Grant writes? He’s got a particular style. If you don’t like it, go read the Chron, Sac Bee or Mercury. Or pay $.2.99 per month and read Kawakami’s digital rag. Or better yet, why don’t you start your own blog and write the way you want Grant to write.

    I don’t get the animus towards him.

    I think he’s 100% wrong on Kaep, but Grant has his own style/vibe for better or worse.

    I’ve got way more of an issue with having to sort through sixty comments that revolve around Seb.

    Grant’s writing often outshines the tripe that passes for commentary in this chatroom.

  33. Grant, can you- or anyone who has some insight on this, answer this question:
    Why, through all of this sad mess of a season, has Jed York been MIA? Is he in the witness protection program, or what? Seems to me he owes the fan base, and his remaining ticket holders at the very least, a few words on all of this and more importantly, his plans on righting this sinking ship.

    1. Jed put the team in the hands of Lynch and Shanahan. He’s pretty much stayed out of the football side of things. It’s better that way.

  34. There is a very simple explanation to why this team has not improved under KS. Its a QB league. Thats it no need for further discussion. 1-9 with Hoyer and Beathard. 6-3 with Jimmy G and 1-7 with Beathard and Mullen nuff said.

    1. It’s not that simple. The team was 1-2 with Garoppolo this year and nearly 0-3. Those five wins last season were garbage-time wins. Meaningless.

      1. My point is they won (in your opinion) meaningless games with JG and lost what looks to be meaningless games with Mullen and Beathard. The QB is the difference and will continue to be the difference in all games when he is healthy. No coach could win with Mullen or Beathard .

        1. Garoppolo wasn’t the difference this season. He was worse than Mullens in terms of production. Lots of coaches could win some games with Mullens. He gives his team a chance to win.

          1. Now you’re really reaching. While I agree it’s not just JG, he is the biggest loss and a key reason why they are in the position they are. I think you are underestimating just how good of an offensive mind Shanahan has. QB’s like Mullens can look good because of the system, not the other way around. Even Beathard has put up some numbers in between turnovers.

            1. Garoppolo was one ticky-tack call away from being 0-3 this season. Of course he’s a big loss, but he wasn’t playing that well this season. Mullens has outproduced him in 2018.

              1. He had a so so first game, but was good against Detroit other than over correcting from the week before and taking too many sacks, and was playing well against KC even though they were completely over matched. Garoppolo would be playing at a much higher level than Mullens and Beathard if he was not on IR.

                Mullens is an average at best player. He’s doing well statistically because of the system put in place by HC/OC and not turning the ball over as his counterpart did. Look throughout Shanahan’s history and you see a list of average QB’s who produced good numbers in his system.

              2. Beathard and Hoyer didn’t produce good numbers for the 49ers. You don’t know how Garoppolo would be playing right now. Don’t pretend you do. He played three games this season. Mullens has played four. Mullens’ passing numbers are better and he has taken six fewer sacks. Those are the facts.

              3. Good, should be a feisty competition between the two. I look forward to your training camp reports.

              4. Yup….looking forward to Grant’s training camp reports. Mullens and Garoppolo battling for the #1 spot.

              5. Sigh..
                You just can’t help yourself Grant. You have to argue even if your point flies in the face of logic.

                Beathard and Hoyer have both put up good numbers in this system as is Mullens. None are or ever will be a threat to take Garoppolo’s job.

              6. I didn’t say Mullens is a threat to take Garoppolo’s job. Show me where I said that.

                And Hoyer and Beathard did not put up good numbers on the 49ers.

                Hoyer’s QB rating last season was 74.5.

                Beathard’s QB rating this season is 81.8.

                Garoppolo’s QB rating this season is 90.

                Mullens’ QB rating this season is 91.5.

                Mullens has reproduced the production Garoppolo was providing this season before he went down, while taking fewer sacks.

              7. “You don’t know how Garoppolo would be playing right now”

                Pretty sure a 60% healthy Jimmy G plays better than what we have seen the last 8 weeks.

              8. “I didn’t say Mullens is a threat to take Garoppolo’s job. Show me where I said that”

                No you just said it indirectly in a jerk off way!

              9. Hoyer and Beathard have both had good games playing in this system.

                You are trying to say Shanahan should be winning games with Mullens and focusing on stats accumulated in limited playing time. I’m pointing out a number of QBs have put up good stats in this system so your attempt at trying to insinuate Mullens is as good or better than Garoppolo based on the 4 games he’s started is severely flawed.

              10. Over a multi-game sample size, Mullens has played significantly better than Beathard and Hoyer. No comparison. But, there is a comparison between his numbers and Garoppolo’s.

              11. Mullens compared to Beathard and Hoyer isn’t even a contest.

                Comparing Mullens and Garoppolo is a bit tricky only from the standpoint of the defensive focus.

                But yeah, take emotions out of the equation and the two have almost identical numbers.

              12. “But yeah, take emotions out of the equation and the two have almost identical numbers”

                The numbers? How pathetic has this blog become that you guys are comparing Jimmy G and Mullen’s as possible equals? Losers!

              13. Over a multi-game sample size, Mullens has played significantly better than Beathard and Hoyer. No comparison. But, there is a comparison between his numbers and Garoppolo’s.

                Simply not true.

                Hoyer’s first 4 games with Shanahan in Cleveland:

                1007 yards
                6 TDs
                1 Int

                Nick Mullens first 4 games under Shanahan:

                1147 yards
                7 TDs
                5 Ints

                Beathard first 4 games under Shanahan:

                941 yards
                4 Ints

                Mullens may turn out to be as good as you think he is, but he’s played 4 games and as you can see above, Hoyer was significantly better and Beathard was in the ball park as far as yards.

                This system is a great QB system and a lot of average QB’s have had success in it.

              14. It’s disingenuous to use Hoyer’s time in Cleveland. We’re comparing these quarterbacks using their stats on the 49ers. Mullens’ stats are clearly superior. That’s why you’re moving goal posts.

              15. No I’m not. I’m looking at the numbers for each QB’s 1st 4 games in this system. If you want to include Hoyer from last season that’s fine as he had a couple of monster statistical games which proves my point even more, but for a true comparison you need to look at the first games in the system. Mullens has some decent stats much like the others but you are overreacting big time in comparing him to Garoppolo. Looks like we may have found our backup though.

  35. Slamd,
    What makes you assume that some of us don’t read other outlets?
    And what makes you think that we are here because of Grant?

    Breaking news! I would venture that the majority of posters will be here if the PD finds another moderator.
    I’ll take it a step further, some former posters may come back as well.

    1. I guess you just need a forum to bitch about Grant or whomever. Doesn’t matter who is writing here.


      I get it.

      In that case, Grant’s doing a fine job in tapping into latent animus.

      A real public service.

      1. Slamd,
        I have no ill-will towards Grant. I just missed meeting him at training camp last summer and hope to meet him at next year’s TC.
        Like I’ve said before, I’m sure Grant is a cool guy.

        My concern is him taking away or adding his personal views to someone’s comments.
        Case and point :
        November 19, headline “Donte Whitner rips Ahkello Witherspoon.”
        Grant – “Whitner even used a telestrador and slow motion just to show just how worthless Witherspoon is at his profession.”

        At no time in Whitner’ comments did he make any inference that Witherspoon was worthless.
        The most telling or criticism mentioned regarding AW is, “Here we go, Cover 2. (Witherspoon) is (supposed to) jam the man, open up, take away this (sail) route and then come up to make the tackle in the flat. Let’s see what we get. No jam, Break. Dive. Miss. That’s just bad football.”

        Not a good commentary from Donte regarding Witherspoon, but far from being” worthless at his profession” as Grant put it.
        Whitner also gives Witherspoon a little positive, “This is (Witherspoon) doing it correctly, and this is what it should look like every time.”
        Again, far from the “worthless at his profession” interpretation by Grant.

        Nah, I’m not animus towards Grant – would just like to see him not distort comments to fit his personal opinions.

        1. Grants a baby. Shanny did something to offend him and now his commentary revolves around anything that Shanny says,said or has done.

          Watch or listen to the press conferences. It’s awkward.

    2. the majority of posters will be here if the PD finds another moderator.
      I’ll take it a step further, some former posters may come back as well.

      Were that the case this (sometimes) poster would actually even read the articles instead of just the back and forth of the posting regulars

  36. The 49ers will be needing a new long snapper.

    Kyle Nelson, who has served as the 49ers’ long snapper for every game of the last five seasons, has been suspended for the next 10 weeks, Field Yates of ESPN reports.

    That means Nelson will miss the last four games of this season and be required to sit out the first six games of next season.

  37. Kelvin Benjamin has been cut by the Bills. Why not bring him in? I’m not sure, but wouldn’t the 49ers be first on the waiver list to claim him?

    1. If the 49ers do pick him up, the team would owe him around $2 million for the rest of the season. A hefty price tag for a tryout, since he is a free agent after this season. Thoughts?

      1. Interesting to say the least. Wonder how Shanahan would use him scheme-wise in 2019 (if Benjamin stuck and demonstrated he could play at a reasonably high level).

      2. Sign him, because Garcon is not playing. He would automatically be a big bodied red zone target, something the Niners lack. 2 mil? Chump change to give a tryout, considering the Niners have 43 mil in cap space.
        Maybe KB needs a clean slate, and a new challenge.
        If they sign him, at least they would look they are TRYING to win.

    2. Benjamin is one of the more overrated WRs in the league. The only thing he really does well is be bigger than the guy covering him. He got lucky playing for the Panthers in an offense that was willing to force the ball to him, even if he doesn’t appreciate it.

      I really don’t think he is a fit for this offense. And yeah, I know his size can be an asset in the red zone and that is an area the team struggles, but Shanahan himself has said he wants WRs that are good across the whole field.

      1. If Shanahan wants good receivers across the whole field he may have to find some new ones as their RZ numbers are worthy.

  38. I guess this is what one should expect when viewing a discussion of a slow motion train wreck as it happens.

      1. Grant… By “most 49ers”, are you referring to the the players? Players + 9er coaches, operations and business staff, etc.? Fans?

        1. He means 49er fans. Funny thing is it’s not just some of the fans who disagree with him. It’s most of the writers who cover the team and everybody who looks at this situation from the outside as well. To most it’s easy to decipher what is happening here.

          1. Yup. I don’t see a catastrophic train wreck–the classic 100 car train fully off the rails, torn-up road bed and ties, dozens of casualties, spilled chemicals, spreading fires, etc.

            No Grant, I’m not in denial.

            I do see a team closing out its second year of a difficult rebuild, beset by many injuries, and shallow in roster talent. There are some weaknesses on the coaching side, and thin experience on the operations (GM’s office) side. Two drafts have been spotty.

            No mistake (Grant), there’s much work to be done this off season. If the 9ers are 1 and 9 at this point next year after botching the ’19 draft, then yeah, we got a bad train wreck. If we’re 5 and 5 with a decent draft, then we may be on the way out of this tunnel.

          2. The only training wreck is the guy writing about the team pretending he doesn’t have a personal vendetta against the head coach.

          3. Most of the fans and writers who cover the team thought Chip Kelly deserved a second season as well. Argued passionately in his defense all season when I called for his job. Mocked me and said he never would get fired. You included. People forget that.

            1. Chip Kelly is not a x and o coach. He’s a U, C, L and A coach now. Shanny is a x and o coach that will get 2 more years as the HC of the San Francisco 49ers, no matter how loudly you call for his job….

            2. “I called for his job”

              Between writing about coaches getting fired and comparisons to Bill Walsh, your act is played!

              Hey PD, get your ass out of the sand and find a writer who can write about the team, unbiased!

            3. If you are referring to me, I was not a passionate supporter of Chip Kelly. I didn’t like the hire from the start. I accepted it and hoped it would work out with Kap but he was not my choice. When it came to whether he should be fired, my stance was there was no point in firing him if they were going to keep Baalke and let him hire the next HC. Once they fired Baalke there was no reason to keep Kelly.

              1. Chip Kelly came to the 49ers with baggage and a locker room revolt during his time in Philly.
                Like you (rocket), I hoped for the best with the hire, but always felt a little weary about it.
                I’m not sure that Kelly ingratiated himself with all the 49ers players as well.
                I would have liked to see Chip with one more year, but his offensive scheme was killing his defense.

                Btw, Chip is not opening any eyes at UCLA either.

            4. “Most of the fans and writers who cover the team thought Chip Kelly deserved a second season as well. Argued passionately in his defense all season when I called for his job. Mocked me and said he never would get fired. You included. People forget that.”

              Yeah, I remember that. Those same people mocked me too. This was weeks before you called for his job. Back when I was a “hater”.

      2. 2-10, and heading towards 2-14, is a slow motion train wreck.
        Sure, JG going down did not help. but they could have won 4 more games with better game management.
        However, I do have hope. The offense and defense have improved from 2016.
        Still, there needs to be a big infusion of talent. They need to win a couple games if they want to attract decent free agents. They need to trade back to get more bodies to lock up into rookie contracts.
        Yes, a slow motion train wreck is a fiasco, but they just need to repair the rails and they can travel again. The team does not need a full rebuild, they have many bricks in the foundation.

      3. Grant Cohn says:
        December 4, 2018 at 3:42 pm
        Here’s the funny thing: Most 49ers think this isn’t a train wreck.
        It’s not a train wreck. It’s a gd damn dumpster fire.

  39. I hope brother tuna hasn’t gone for good. Miss his takes and sense of humor. Lost htwaits unfortunately.

  40. So what can be said about Kyle Shanahan near the end of two seasons? He’s still very much a work in progress. A coach interrupted in many ways.

    There is the good: dynamic plays, close competition in many games, surprising contributors, new found pride in the organization, apparent respect of the players, a sense of hope that better things are just around the horizon.

    Then there is the bad: injuries, players who haven’t lived up to expectations, high predictions for the team that have been dashed, wasted opportunities, red zone shortcomings, third down conversion rates, coaches who seem out of their depth, mistakes that squandered any opportunities for wins.

    So what do we make of all this? What grade can we honestly give this head coach? I think an incomplete is the best we can give him but a lot of the work seems to be short of the mark. Great potential, but as of yet unseen.

    Granted, he won’t get grades until mid-term but he does have to light a fire under his belly to finish the project as expected. I believe Jed said something about Super Bowls.

    Remember that he undertook this project knowing what he was getting into. His eyes were wide open. His mid-terms might be a bear. Hope he prepares well.

    1. Yeah, that’s the worst part about this season. It’s almost impossible to accurately evaluate him as a coach and you would hope to have a much more accurate assessment at this point.
      If we can see improvement in the power run game, the red-zone offense and stop making mental errors in coverage, and start generating a few turnovers, that will be a solid start. I’m not even talking massive improvements just get to a point where they can pick up a yard when the opponent knows they are going to run it, Improve the red zone offense to rank in the late teens and get the defensive coverage to the point where they can go through a game or 2 without blowing a coverage.

      1. The reality of losing teams is the consistency with what they do things. Same is true for winning programs.

        Think back to the Winning years for this franchise and how consistent they were in their execution. No matter what happened you always “knew” they were coming back.

        This is also true now. I wait for the screw up that will cost them the game.

        The funny thing is it isn’t big things but small little things that make all the difference.

        The big question is if Shanahan is big enough for the job to correct the little things that need correction so that the team can accomplish big things.

        1. I cant wait till next year when all you doubters see what this team does with the addition of a pass rush and the weapons back on offense. Its gonna be crow fest 2019! Get your plates ready!

          1. Prime,
            I wouldn’t really call East or Myself as doubters.

            We are not in the Grant camp, saying they must move on or the Jack/Seb camp arguing that they have underperformed with the talent given.
            We (correct me if I am misrepresenting you east) are more in the Camp that will wait and see, but hope to see some noticeable improvement in certain areas with more roster consistency.

            So I am not sure how we would be eating crow.

            1. Shoup,

              This team does the same stupid stuff week after week to lose games and they’ve done that for the better part of 2 years now.

              If you or others can’t see that I need to ask what you’re watching.

              That’s where the frustration comes from. I didn’t have grand expectations of this team before the season, didn’t include them in any playoff prediction or anything like that. Once Garoppolo went down I knew the season was done, however that doesn’t excuse the mistakes, and poor play that we see every week.

              1. Jack,

                The stupid mistakes made by the team are the reason for the caution on my part. I don’t feel I have drunk the koolaide so to speak. When they get in the Redzone, I’m at the point where I expect a false start, or for the qb to take a sack. Part of this can be explained with the musical chairs in the backfield, or by a young a young qb taking a sack when he shouldn’t, but certainly not all.

                The same can be said of the coverage woes on the backend. I now expect to see at least 1 blown coverage per game, where the opponent’s wr is running free. Once again, some of this can be explained by musical chairs on the backend but certainly, that doesn’t explain it to the regularity that it has been happening.

                That is why I said there are specific things that improvement needs to be seen on.

                I had this as about a 7 win team with Jimmy. But with all the injuries, I had this roster as the 3rd worst in football, only AZ and Oakland being worse. That’s why the AZ losses were the most disapointing for me.

              2. The mistakes continue to happen but who is making them? It seems to be different players week to week. That is a clear indication of players being thrown into the mix who have to sink or swim. These are the things that happen when you are unable to keep the same players on the field for an extended period of time.

              3. Oh, Jack. Of course Garoppolo’s injury excuses the mistakes. It excuses everything. Stop being so negative.

              4. “The mistakes continue to happen but who is making them?”

                The special teams coverage units have had problems most of the season. Ahkello Witherspoon was a day 1 starter and continues to blow coverage almost weekly. Richie James has been returning kicks for the last 8 weeks straight so no switching there. The oline has been pretty much intact all season other than a few minor injuries in the first couple weeks yet still kill themselves with false starts in critical situations. The defensive line has been intact all season, but they just stink and don’t do anything against the pass.

                This team doesn’t do the little things it takes to win and hasn’t since the current group took over, their record reflects that. Yes, injuries have played a role, but that doesn’t excuse coaches for not having everyone on the team ready to play.

                Coaches get fired based on wins/losses. Shanahan won’t get fired this offseason, but that’s not because he’s doing a good job because he’s not.

                He’s failing. His staff, and their shortcomings are on him. He’s a one hit wonder offensive coordinator masquerading as a head coach, and his teams show that week in and week out.

              5. “He’s failing. His staff, and their shortcomings are on him. He’s a one hit wonder offensive coordinator masquerading as a head coach, and his teams show that week in and week out”

                You are a joke!

              6. The special teams coverage units have had problems most of the season. Ahkello Witherspoon was a day 1 starter and continues to blow coverage almost weekly. Richie James has been returning kicks for the last 8 weeks straight so no switching there.

                And how many different players do you figure have played on ST’s this season due to injuries? One of our best ST player (Mostart) had to play more snaps at RB due to injury and ultimately was lost for the season. There have been changes to this unit multiple times throughout the season which leads to problems. Witherspoon has blown some coverages, but he’s also been let down by blown coverages by the S assigned to help him. There has been a revolving door at S position which leads to confusion and the problems we have seen. Richie James made a huge mistake last week and that was part of the point. It is different players making the mistakes from week to week. Jeff Wilson was another one as was Mullens throwing the pick 6. It’s a clear case of young players or players not having played a lot to this point who are making the mistakes more often than not.

                The oline has been pretty much intact all season other than a few minor injuries in the first couple weeks yet still kill themselves with false starts in critical situations. The defensive line has been intact all season, but they just stink and don’t do anything against the pass.

                Sometimes they do, but before this past week where they took a stupid amount of penalties, the team as a whole had been in the lower half of the league in penalties. The DLine gets pressure from the DT’s, but not from the Edges. That’s a personnel issue, not a Coaching one.

                This team doesn’t do the little things it takes to win and hasn’t since the current group took over, their record reflects that. Yes, injuries have played a role, but that doesn’t excuse coaches for not having everyone on the team ready to play.

                This is just a cliché Jack. They don’t do the little things? Like what? They aren’t ready to play? No they just aren’t as talented as most of the teams they face and that is very clear pretty much every week.

                Coaches get fired based on wins/losses. Shanahan won’t get fired this offseason, but that’s not because he’s doing a good job because he’s not.

                He’s not going to get fired because most rational people can see they are playing with both hands tied behind their back. Give me an example of a team in year two of a rebuild with a new coaching staff who suffered the injuries this team has and won games anyway? I’ll wait.

                He’s failing. His staff, and their shortcomings are on him. He’s a one hit wonder offensive coordinator masquerading as a head coach, and his teams show that week in and week out.

                Smh. You always say you aren’t calling for him to be fired yet you make comments like this. He’s certainly not perfect and he owns his part in the teams failure to win, but this idea that another HC could do better in the same situation is pure nonsense. If you want to pin the blame on Shanahan that’s your prerogative, but it is ignoring basic common sense.

              7. “You always say you aren’t calling for him to be fired yet you make comments like this.”

                Stating that I think Shanahan is failing isn’t saying I think he should be fired. If I felt that way I’d say it.

                “He’s not going to get fired”

                Yeah that’s what I said.

                “They don’t do the little things? Like what?”

                Like handle their assignments on defense. Like holding onto the football. Like penalties in critical areas. Every week there’s a different excuse, sorry, reason why the team lost or the score got out of hand.

                And this isn’t something that started happening in week 4. This stuff happened in week 1, they caught a lucky break in week 2 but a win is a win, and they were miserable in KC until they were down 25 at half and the game was out of hand.

                “That’s a personnel issue, not a Coaching one.”

                I agree with that to a point, however that doesn’t excuse Shanahan or the job he’s doing. He’s involved with the guys they bring in, whether that’s through draft, free agency, or trade.

              8. Stating that I think Shanahan is failing isn’t saying I think he should be fired. If I felt that way I’d say it.

                You are saying it in how you describe him and place most of the blame on him for what’s happened this year. One hit wonder isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement.

                Like handle their assignments on defense. Like holding onto the football. Like penalties in critical areas. Every week there’s a different excuse, sorry, reason why the team lost or the score got out of hand.

                Those are the same things you’ve already mentioned. Assignments getting blown on defense are on the players and it’s often because there is no cohesion which has been the case here. I posted an interview with Richard Sherman in the previous thread where he states the players have blown easy assignments and that it’s not the play calling that is the problem. Same thing with holding onto the ball. That is not a Coaching failure, it’s a player failure. Penalties haven’t been a problem for most of the season as they’ve been in the bottom half of the league for most of it, but sure if you want to say that is Coaching then I can see that. It’s never acceptable to continue making mental errors and that has to be cleaned up.

                And this isn’t something that started happening in week 4. This stuff happened in week 1, they caught a lucky break in week 2 but a win is a win, and they were miserable in KC until they were down 25 at half and the game was out of hand.

                So you feel the Niners should have won in Minny and KC? At some point you have to accept that the better team wins more often than not Jack. The picks sunk them in Minny, but they played pretty well other than that, as they did against Detroit. The defense was awful against KC, but most defenses are awful against KC. Realistic expectations have to come into play here. They didn’t lose either of those games because they were outcoached.

                I agree with that to a point, however that doesn’t excuse Shanahan or the job he’s doing. He’s involved with the guys they bring in, whether that’s through draft, free agency, or trade.

                Sure but the point I’ve been trying to make in the face of all this criticism of the HC is that he’s one small part of it. The biggest issues this team has faced this year are having to replace players weekly due to injury and not having the depth to do it effectively. That isn’t a Coaching problem and yet you and others are trying to place most of the blame on Shanahan. There isn’t a Coach out there that would be succeeding in this situation. I can’t prove that because it’s never happened before, but suffice to say, I’ve seen some really good Coaches lose a lot of games with fewer setbacks than the Niners have faced this year.

              9. “You are saying it in how you describe him and place most of the blame on him for what’s happened this year. “

                If you want to speak for me than that’s your prerogative.

                “I posted an interview with Richard Sherman in the previous thread where he states the players have blown easy assignments and that it’s not the play calling that is the problem. Same thing with holding onto the ball. That is not a Coaching failure, it’s a player failure.”

                Of course it’s a coaching failure. It’s there job to make sure that the guys put on the field know what they’re supposed to do and are doing it.

                Same thing with fumbles, it’s on the coaches.

                “Penalties haven’t been a problem for most of the season as they’ve been in the bottom half of the league for most of it, but sure if you want to say that is Coaching then I can see that. It’s never acceptable to continue making mental errors and that has to be cleaned up.”

                The 49ers don’t have a lot of penalties usually, but when they do it’s usually in a critical area.

                As for other coaches succeeding, there’s coaches who would be doing better. This isn’t just about wins and losses. Look at the team, look at what you write about them on Monday after a game. You should save yourself the time and just copy/paste because it’s pretty much the same story. And that’s on coaches not fixing the issues.

              10. If you want to speak for me than that’s your prerogative.

                Your words are speaking for you, not me. You keep insulting the guy and criticizing things he has no control over. How does that equate with not wanting him to be fired?

                Of course it’s a coaching failure. It’s there job to make sure that the guys put on the field know what they’re supposed to do and are doing it.

                Coaches can’t play for them. According to Sherman they are making stupid mistakes and it’s on the players. The scheme is not that difficult.

                Same thing with fumbles, it’s on the coaches.

                Nope. It’s on the players.

                The 49ers don’t have a lot of penalties usually, but when they do it’s usually in a critical area.
                As for other coaches succeeding, there’s coaches who would be doing better. This isn’t just about wins and losses. Look at the team, look at what you write about them on Monday after a game. You should save yourself the time and just copy/paste because it’s pretty much the same story. And that’s on coaches not fixing the issues.

                I disagree. Coaching is extremely important, but every Coach in the NFL would agree that players are the most crucial factor and if you don’t have them, you have no chance.

            2. East has been dogging the Niners all year. A lot of people have. I’m not sure if you have or not.

              My point is you take away the talent the Niners have lost this year, add it to next year and some additions in the secondary and pass rush, and I guarantee you this team will much improved.

              So the doubters can have their moment till the offseason. Then we will see.

            3. Actually Shoup, I’m more in the Scooter/Hammer camp. I think the team is being held back, but I’m willing to wait and see (I don’t think we have much choice, unless we want to cut off our nose to spite our face).

              I am certainly not in the Seb camp. That is a sad and lonely place and the only way you would ever see me there is if I lost my mind and become completely untethered to reality.

              I don’t think I have to eat crow but will devour bowlful after bowlful if the team becomes what we all waiting for it to be.

              1. Yeah, I am just focusing on what’s happened so far. This season has been awful and really shown the glaring weaknesses of the team. And its not just the player talent, even though that is a large part of it.

                I think Shanahan can have success if he’s given a good group of players. Whether the right people are in place to give him that talent I don’t know. Whether the right people are in place to help develop the talent I don’t know.

                And from what we have seen, we should expect that even with top end talent the team would likely still make silly mistakes which could cost them games. It would just be costly less often if the talent was able to make enough good plays to overcome the mistakes.

              2. Fair enough East,
                I’m definitely concerned with what I see but want to give him a year with some better players to see what he can do. The things that most concern me with this regime are in regards to player acquisition/scouting and development. The players they have brought in as a whole have disappointed and not developed. Right now I think it’s Shanahan’s off-field decisions are the ones might get him fired from draft choices to staff selection.

              3. Shoup, we certainly converge on those points.

                Like Scooter said, talent plays a part of the overall evaluation (and here we agree with Rocket). However, who helped pick and develop that talent and put them in places to be successful?

                The wasted opportunities are not ones that can come back. Remember when people were ok with the trade ups because we had so many picks. Those picks could fill in holes right now. Reaching for players means we lose opportunities. That was true for a number of our players. Then there is the drafting redundancy that has occurred. Again, precious draft capital that we can’t get back!

                Now those 5 picks better be out of this world or this team is in grave danger. Those FA acquisitions better be stellar too.

                I said injuries would be a key and was told that’s true for all teams, but for our team it has been catastrophic. I said they didn’t address pass rush and was told that they were ok with what they had and wait until next year.

                Watching this team you get the feeling that people aren’t noticing the patterns developing.

                Nevertheless, I think the die is cast. We have to follow through to year 4, unless there is a repeat of this season. That will surely get Shanahan the boot if he isn’t able to do more next year.

              4. East,
                Yeah, the draft picks and development have been subpar, to say the least. However, we disagree on the fact he gets 4 years. He gets 3 in my mind no matter what happens, but if they don’t show noticeable improvement in certain areas he’s gone after 3 years.
                I hope he has a bit better luck next year in terms of injuries, but they need to set themselves roster wise to not be so devastated if a few guys go out. However, even if they have major injury setbacks next year and don’t improve, he will have had enough time to be evaluated.

        2. East,

          Here’s my question….next year Garoppolo is healthy, McKinnon is healthy, they get their pass rusher maybe a corner and then they go 8-8.

          Is that looked at as a ?? or ???

          1. I think that the floor has to be 6 wins. Anything less would be a disappointment in a 3 year plan.

            I think 8-8 would be pretty good though. A 10-6 year would make me start to believe the hype surrounding Shanahan.

            1. “I think 8-8 would be pretty good though.”

              So only 2 games better than where they were in 2017 is pretty good.

              1. So only 2 games better than where they were in 2017 is pretty good.

                Aren’t you the one who’s been arguing endlessly about how meaningless those wins were? Why would you include them as a point of reference for next season? I think they will be better than 8-8 if healthy, but 8-8 would be a sign of improvement at the very least.

              2. Yes because, like you I saw a lot of those wins as mirages. The team was certainly not as good as the wins indicated. They happen to catch magic at the right moment.

                Just a curious, but what do you think of an 8-8 season?

              3. “Just a curious, but what do you think of an 8-8 season?”

                That’s the low. I had them at 8-10 going into this season. That should be the expectation for 2019 with everyone back and new additions.

                “Aren’t you the one who’s been arguing endlessly about how meaningless those wins were?”

                And they were.

                I felt that the 2017 team was a 6-8 win group. They ended up getting to 6, but blew a number of opportunities earlier in the season to get above that.

                This year we’re seeing the opposite. The marginal/weak opponents were all in the first half of the schedule. Last year they were all at the end.

            2. Hammer, i guess I didn’t have as lofty expectations of the team as you did, so my floor starts lower. Either way, I think we see the team underperforming and a general consensus that it starts at the top and filters down.

          2. With just those notable additions, yeah, 8-8 would be a thumbs up for me. Assuming they are also competitive in the other games. I think this team has a lot of question marks and in order to do much better than 8 wins would need a lot of their draft picks from 2017 to 2019 to be good to solid starters next year, or require more additions to the team than you outline.

          3. It will be year three of a rebuild in a parity league. A rebuild that was accelerated by getting a franchise QB. Anything less than ten wins would be a disappointment.

          4. The ownership/FO seems to be convinced that it’s going to take up to 6 years to right the ship. So winning 7-9 games in year 3 (based on their time line) would be considered “on track” (successful).

            I agree that when all is said and done, it all falls on Shanahan and Lynch’ desk. They should (and believe they will) bear all responsibility for this season. That’s what (young) leaders learn to do. This team is a reflection of it’s young and inexperienced leadership in the mistakes Dept.
            What the team is NOT (as our young moderator has proposed), is a team that has quit on their head coach.

            Like many here have expressed, I’d like to see what Shanahan can do with his injured key players back on the field and more talent as well.
            Apparently ownership and FO feels the same way, hence the 6 year build project.

      2. Nothing wrong with criticism as long as it’s warranted imo. Some of the criticisms that have been attributed to Coaching are not warranted imo. All you can do as a Coach is practice as much as you can, teach as best you can and motivate as best you can. The rest is up to the players and if they aren’t up to the challenge there isn’t a whole hell of a lot you can do. This team is playing with a number of backups and lower. You can criticize Shanahan for that as he is part of the personnel decision making team, but show me a rebuilding team in year two that has the depth to overcome injuries to key players. All I wanted to see once Garoppolo went down was continued development of young players and compete level maintained. For the most part that has happened. Mistakes continue to happen but most of it is young players being forced to shoulder more responsibility.

  41. This long-snapper thing is the icing on the cake. Hopefully it marks the bottom of this debacle of a season. There’s really no where to go but up.

    1. Do you remember when Seattle had all those PEDs and the fact the kicker got snagged was icing on the cake and a scathing indictment on Pete Carroll? I wonder what it means that our Long Snapper has gotten snagged?

  42. Scroll to comments without reading BECAUSE NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK GRANT COHN! You are a whiny a-hole with ZERO talent, just like your daddy.

    1. To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw: If all the blog posters who have ever posted here were laid end to end, they couldn’t reach a conclusion.

      1. Imagine if we found ourselves on Mars–making up the first colony on the red planet. Just 15 to 20 of us. Wonder how long we’d survive? Who’d be the first to expire? The last?

  43. It’s raining! Bummer, no golf today! Bowling? Nice article in the PDYNT by Cam Inman about Dante Pettis’s recent success and growth. Nice to read an article about the players that isn’t a negative opinion piece. Just good reporting. Refreshing.

  44. Shanahan is blaming others. It’s everyone else’s fault, not his. At least, that’s how he comes across. He says “I do as well as I can, work as hard as I can”. Translation: “I’m doing my part”.

    If you’re arrogant enough not to acknowledge your shortcomings, then how can you improve? I’m losing faith in Shanahan.

      1. Grant, you presented facts of Mullens outperforming Garoppolo, and yet at the same time say he doesn’t improve. It seems like you vacillate both ways….?‍?

  45. Why is this team 2-10? It starts at the top, and Jed just begs to be humiliated. Jed is also cheap, because he will not spend all of the salary cap, so one could say that they have 43 mil less talent than many playoff teams, who spend every penny to win. Jed pockets that extra cap money, so he does not care if his team is 2-10.
    Jed preferred a suit over a coach, which led to this fiasco. Baalke was an unmitigated disaster, and the stench of Baalke still lingers. One poignant reason the Niners are struggling is because of the horrendous drafts. Case in point, Baalke took a card out of his pocket to show how clever he was, and AJ Jenkins name was on the card.17 picks later, the Seahawks chose Bobby Wagner, who single handedly eviscerated the Niners last game.
    Baalke dismantled a SB team. He let Iupati go, because he was cheap. He engendered no loyalty so Cowboy and Willis retired. Borland quit on him. Baalke dissed Frank Gore by not even offering him a contract.Boone was let go. Looney, the starting center for Dallas, was cut and they kept Devey, the human turnstile. Baalke stabbed Kaep in the back by promising he would retain veteran talent and leadership, so Kaep signed a team frendly contract, then proceeded to gut the team.
    The present FO has kept up the tradition. They let go Ellington, Aaron Lynch, Davis and others who are playing in the NFL. They traded away MacDonald Kilgore Brown and Harold, and of course, let Kaep walk out the door. Now, only 2 players are left from that SB team.
    JL is in over his head. Sure, he wanted to change the culture of the team, and he stopped the leaks, but he made the same mistakes as Baalke. He let his emotions influence his decision making process by colluding to blackball Kaep. He pulled a Baalke by drafting red flagged and ACL players. JL should have been patient, and saved his draft picks, but he got desperate, and wasted picks to move up Too bad his picks turned out to be bad. Seahawks took advantage of the Niners, traded back, the Niners took Foster, who has disappeared like a puff of smoke. With that 4th round pick, the Seahawks took Tedrick Thompson, who is now their starting free safety. JL gave a woman beater a second chance.
    KS is in over his head. He imploded in the SB, and has not learned from his mistakes. His teams are unprepared, unfocused, undisciplined and uninspired. Yelling at players and threatening their jobs are not sound motivational tools. KS has a huge ego, and will not hire an OC. He is now 2-10. JG managed to overcome the coaching, but once he went down, the wheels fell off. Sure, the injuries are a good excuse, but even with all the injuries, they could have won more games with just basic decent game management. Sure, he can call plays, but KS ignores the defense, and hired a LB coach as his DC.
    Saleh has no clue. Even with all the intel from Smith, Marsh and Sherman, like MM pointed out, he tried to school the master, but got put in the corner with a dunce cap on. Saleh has put players in the wrong positions and has not utilized them properly. Some think uncovered receivers are the player’s fault, I blame Saleh. He cannot coach a player to set the edge, so Penny ran untouched for a TD, and the Seahawks scored within 16 seconds of the second half, crushing their chances.
    So yes, I would love to be talking about a 10-2 team, and I would be heaping praise on them. I would be effusive with praise if they could be contending for a playoff spot, but playoffs are just a distant memory. Now, they are 2-10, and are inelegantly tanking. Many will disagree, but the whole season could have been saved if only they had signed Kaep once JG went down.
    Now, we are surmising if Jed will lower the boom. I do not think he will do that, because who will replace them. Jed must have a better replacements waiting in the wings, or he will just become more humiliated.
    Right now, Jed is jumping for joy, because he now has the first pick of the draft. He likes to be rewarded like that. Personally, I hope the Niners draft last every year.

    1. Seven hundred six words… Keep goin’ Sebbie. You’re closing in on 1000.

      Jumping for joy that what you’ve outlined, you’ve outlined dozens and dozens of times earlier. And I’m confident we’ll see it again, and again.

      So, how about the Alliance of American Football?

      1. “how about the Alliance of American Football?”

        Their top drafted QB’s just signed with Washington. Pretty much says all you need to know.

        1. Pretty good. From a fan’s point of view, the AAF could be very interesting–particularly if it hangs around for more than two years. Good for player AND coaching development.

            1. Early yes. If the AAF proves viable over a number of years, I’d think some new blood could work its way in.

    2. Glad even Buckner admitted they did not set the edge. That untouched Penny TD was a dagger in the heart.
      Maybe they should go to the 3-4. Whitner mentioned Solomon Thomas would thrive in a 3-4 defense.
      Niners need to learn to hold up the ball carrier so another defender can attack the ball and get some separation.
      Since they cannot get to the QB, maybe they should strategize by rushing to a point in front of the QB and try to tip the ball up for a possible turnover.
      Glad Dennis Brown mentioned that the players may be playing for a job, but also the coaches may be coaching to keep their jobs.

      1. I keep repeating myself because the Niners keep repeating the same mistakes. Some day, they will learn.
        Some one mentioned my profession. I am a licenced and bonded Landscape contractor, specializing in design build, low maintenance, xeriscaping with a touch of the Japanese garden influence. Balance and harmony, with color combinations. I always propose edible landscapes and recommend removing lawns.
        I work when I want to and am particular who I work for. Right now, I just finished a couple projects, and am ready to move into my pruning schedule of past projects.
        As I type, I am looking out my window, and see 2 bucks with 6 point racks, and 3 does. Life is beautiful.

    3. “The whole season could have been saved if only they signed Kap………….”

      And there it is.


      Right out of the “Twilight Zone”, with our host Rod “Sebs” Sterling.

  46. Seb, you owe me big time . I got about a third of the way through your never ending diatribe and nodded of and hit my forehead on my coffee cup. The bottom line is the Niners would rather work with a young QB with a possible future than lose with a washed up has been who was 11-24 in his last 35 starts including going 1-10 in his last season, setting a franchise record 9 loses in a row. ;-)
    Thanks for the bump!

  47. Outside of Jimmy falling into their laps, two years of John Lynch has amounted to nothing much.

    This organization is desperate for outstanding college scouting and talent evaluation.

    Forget firing coaches and GMs.

    Hire somebody who knows something about evaluating football talent, emotional intelligence and integrity.

    Word is that Coach Shanahan has a “Perfect Physical Profile” for each position on the roster.

    Throw a bunch of money and Coach’s list at Scot McCloughan.

    Let him stay in his cabin in Northern Washington and hire him a communicator to get him through his rough stages.
    The poor guy is an alcoholic but he’s a brilliant talent evaluator.

    1. Middleburg,
      Scot McCloughan is good but is far from brilliant.
      His 2008 draft for the 49ers removes some of his shine.
      Kentwan Balmer
      Chilo Rachal
      Reggie Smith
      Cody Wallace
      Josh Morgan
      Larry Grant.
      This draft alone gives McCloughan a black eye when looking at talent.

      1. All true but by that time the poor guy was seriously in the bag.
        He’s reportedly straight enough right now to give this team better than Solomon Thomas and Rueben Foster.
        Give him a year with some BS title like ‘Special Assistant’ or some such nonsense.
        NFL teams are built through the draft and the 49er’s draft record, save for Buckner, is flat out awful the past 5 years.

    1. Keep your head low?

      Use your hips?

      Both hands on the ball?

      Beware of Baalke’s aura, we hear it’s powerful?

      Don’t shoot yourself in the foot, read up on CA gun laws?

      No head slapping?

  48. Quarterbacks and pass rushers can hide lots of problems.- KS.
    Too bad he has neither. He could get another QB if he wanted to.

    1. Keep poking Sebbie.

      Kaep ain’t comin’ back. You can BBQ the 9ers all day on that matter–to no avail. Kaep ain’t comin’ back. Your tears won’t bring him back–nor your anger. So bitter. Keep ripping that scab off. Oh, the humanity…

      Blame Nessa, no?

      Hall & Oats She’s (He’s) Gone….

      “I better learn how to face it…”

      1. KS keeps leading with his chin.
        This was like Gruden lamenting the fact that he did not have a pass rusher, after he traded away Mack.

      2. Like the weeping sap from an old New England maple Tree,
        So does Sebby’s bitterness and hostility leak from every pore and orifice.

  49. From today’s presser (vua Matt Barrow’s tweet)

    “A quarterback can hide a lot of problems and so can a pass rush.” — Kyle Shanahan, who called pass rusher the most pivotal position on defense.”

    1. Sounds like some of the stuff the haters have been saying ! Shame on Branch! Doesn’t he recognize a sacred cow when he sees one?

  50. Biderman responds to if the Niners should take Bosa or trade down for multiple picks (assuming they have the first pick). I thought this was an interesting comment:

    ‘This will be the third draft for Shanahan and Lynch, which means they should be nearing the end of their rebuilding mode. That’s why I would take the elite talent in Bosa rather than throw even more young players into the mix that need developing. If this were their first or second draft class, I would be more inclined to trade back, knowing there wasn’t pressure to win next season.’


    1. I agree with Biderman. This team needs difference makers; not just bodies. If Bosa isn’t there then a small trade down would be ok as there is a group of players in the same category of talent imo.

      1. Agree. Because of the mistakes of 2017 this has to be a knockout draft. Maybe JL should concentrate on getting talent and less on looking good on MMQB.

  51. Rocket,
    And would it kill (Grant, metaphor only) to ever say something positive?
    Fairness and balance have been tossed aside to make room for the negative.

    1. AES:

      I posted a link to Eric Branch’s article above. I think he has the balance just about right. He doesn’t believe that injuries are to blame for the entire season, but also mentions the positives at the end of his article.

      1. “Still, there has been a shift this season in the way Shanahan and Lynch are viewed: The honeymoon has ended and been replaced by a period in which their acumen is being questioned for the first time.

        In other words, their collective reputation has taken a hit.

        And that places them among the many who have been pounded in the 49ers’ painful season.”

        Branch does a good job of pointing out what many who are labeled “haters” around here have said. Only thing if disagree with him on is Sherman, got a lot of free run off reputation early on but hasn’t held up when tested.

        1. Everyone I know feels like Shanny has some ‘splainin’ to do next year. No use beating a dead horse all season long….?

          1. Feel free to focus on whatever else you’d like. No one is forcing or asking you to read or comment.

            Why is Trump now blaming the Democrats for not financing a wall that he said he’d make Mexico pay for?

            1. Feel free to beat away, but I’m not gonna Beat It.

              They probably already paid through the nose via the USMCA, but I’m not an attorney, nor did I play one, and I didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night….

        2. Branch didn’t blame Coaching as many here have and acknowledged the injuries were a problem. The focus of the article was the fact the 2017 draft didn’t produce which in turn has led to the team being short on depth to replace the injuries. I’ve yet to read anyone besides Grant and some of the people in this forum say the Niners biggest problem this year is Coaching.

          1. You’re getting things twisted.

            Everything that Branch wrote here has been written in this comments section by me at some point over the season. If you don’t recall then maybe 80 can look them up for you.

            “The losses of Jimmy Garoppolo, running back Jerick McKinnon and others can’t excuse all the stench from the 49ers’ 2-10 season.

            That’s because the wretched 49ers might have been respectable if more of the new regime’s 2017 draft picks had emerged to offset the attrition. Instead, the first five picks from the first draft overseen by Shanahan and general manager John Lynch have been disappointing, to varying degrees.

            In addition, two of last year’s biggest free-agent signees, wide receiver Pierre Garcon and inside linebacker Malcolm Smith, have been dogged by injuries, an issue that has marked their two-season tenures.

            First, consider those draft picks: Defensive tackle Solomon Thomas hasn’t come close to resembling a No. 3 overall selection. Thrice-arrested inside linebacker Reuben Foster (first round) was released last month. Beleaguered cornerback Ahkello Witherspoon (third round) was benched twice early in the season. Quarterback C.J. Beathard (third round) was supplanted by Nick Mullens, a 2017 undrafted free agent. And running back Joe Williams (fourth round) was released before Week 1 without having played a regular-season snap with the team.

            Making matters worse, the 49ers three times traded a pick to move up in the draft, giving up a third-round pick in order to select Foster, a fifth-round pick to take Williams and a seventh-rounder to get Beathard.

            As for Garcon and Smith, they have combined to miss 30 games since they signed. Garcon, whom the 49ers tried to deal at the trade deadline, has missed four of the past five games with a knee injury and could be placed on injured reserve for the second straight season. Smith is playing with tendinitis in his lower leg and wasn’t overly optimistic last week when asked if it would clear up in the offseason: “I hope so,” he said.

            Lynch and Shanahan have had some monumental misses, but the 2017 draft class did include tight end George Kittle, a fifth-round steal. And their first three 2018 draft picks — right tackle Mike McGlinchey, wide receiver Dante Pettis and linebacker Fred Warner — all appear promising. In addition, Pro Bowl fullback Kyle Juszczyk and Sherman have been strong free-agent signings, and New England head coach Bill Belichick called the 49ers to offer Garoppolo for a second-round pick partly because of his respect for Shanahan and Lynch.“

            1. “If you don’t recall then maybe 80 can look them up for you.”

              Didn’t you complain about people taking unprovoked shots at you in posts that had nothing to do with you? Hypocritical as ever Jack.


              Jack Hammer says:
              October 23, 2018 at 5:28 pm
              “This was a discussion point on here a few weeks ago. It would absolutely make sense, but only if they plan on keeping Kaep around as the backup next year.

              “Quite frankly this is the move that should have been made prior to 2017 with Beathard as the third guy if they still wanted to draft him.”

            2. “Didn’t you complain about people taking unprovoked shots at you in posts that had nothing to do with you?”

              That wasn’t a shot at you. You’re like the blog librarian. You’ve proven that you have the gift of time to go through and bookmark or find comments. Was trying to help rocket out.

              Thanks for finding that. It definitely fits with what I’ve been saying for a while. They cut/traded/released guys who could fill roles on the team and were decent players. Keeping Kaepernick or Gabbert around to compete with Hoyer would have been better than bringing in Matt Barkley.

              1. Thanks. I am blessed with the gift of time. I’m thankful that I have the 20 seconds or less to find that stuff.

          2. I haven’t said Shanahan is the 49ers’ biggest problem. I haven’t ranked their problems. But, he certainly is a problem. He’s failing.

            1. You’ve criticized him the most in the articles you’ve written and keep calling for him to be fired. If you feel that there is a bigger problem you certainly haven’t focused on it as much as you have Shanahan.

              1. I also keep calling for Lynch and Saleh to be fired. They all should go. Ranking them is pointless.

              2. The only one that has a possibility of being fired is Saleh, and I’m not sure that’ll happen unless a very respected veteran DC comes available.

              3. That’s a prediction. I didn’t make one. I gave a prescription. There’s a difference.

              4. Nice wuss out on your question to Shanny today about Mullen’s.
                Why didn’t you mention his numbers are the same as Jimmy G’s?

              5. I didn’t say you predicted anything. Just pointing out the only one of the group that has a chance to be canned is Saleh.

              6. Keep calling Grant. Someday you will be thanked. I know that’s very important.

          3. I’m not twisting anything. You blame Coaching every week. This article details things that pretty much everyone agrees with. The 2017 draft is looking really bad and it’s set the team back. No argument from anyone on that as far as I know. The differences of opinion happen when you and a few others try to pin it on the Coaching which Branch does not do in this article.

              1. I respect the position, but I capitalize it purely for emphasis. I know you’re an English Major but don’t get side tracked by a lack of attention to the rules of Grammar on a message board.

            1. “I’m not twisting anything. You blame Coaching every week.”

              Except you are, because even though I’ve been critical of the coaching I have also more than once hit on each of the personnel issues that Branch wrote about.

              1. So has everyone else. The only difference is you continue to blame Coaching even though these other points have been made and agreed upon.

              2. Not everyone. There’s more than a few who are hanging on thinking the 2017 group will come around.

                If you think the team is well coached, so be it.

              3. I don’t know how well they’re Coached. I’m not in the locker room or on the practice field. I’m simply pointing out that some of the negative things being attributed to Coaching are incorrect. As a Coach you teach the proper way of doing things, practice them and continue to repeat over and over. That’s all you can do. You can’t play for them.

              4. “As a Coach you teach the proper way of doing things, practice them and continue to repeat over and over.”

                Correct. And there is such a thing as bad coaches, just like there’s bad teachers.

      2. Actually he acknowledges the injuries are a big reason but focuses on the fact the team didn’t have the depth to replace them because of the failures of the 2017 draft and the injuries suffered by FA’s.

  52. https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/121600-transcript-shanahan-discusses-mullens-preparing-broncos-learning-working/

    “Bobby has dedicated his life to being as good as he can be at studying and coaching running backs. I have more respect for Bobby Turner than anyone I’ve coached with. Every day he’s the same. He loves his guys. He works them, he holds them accountable. Anything you ask Bobby to do, he’s going to do his job and be very good at it. You don’t ever have to worry about Bobby. You might give him 30 running backs to look at in the draft and he’s going to look at 200. He doesn’t want to miss on anyone. I always feel very fortunate to be able to coach with Bobby and he’s helped us out a ton in that area.”

  53. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/05/is-jim-harbaugh-trying-to-get-back-to-the-nfl/

    “Watch out for Jim Harbaugh because Jim Harbaugh, potentially, is trying to get his way out of Michigan, all right?” Carter said. “I’ve got good sources that are telling me not only Green Bay but also watch out for the Cleveland Browns. He likes the quarterback situations there, and, I believe, that there is front office people in Green Bay who are enamored with Jim Harbaugh and potentially trying to get him to come to Green Bay.”

    “Earlier today, one source predicted that, if/when Harbaugh comes back to the NFL, he’ll coach the first NFL team that seriously pursued him — the Dolphins, who are owned by Michigan alum and benefactor Stephen Ross.”

    1. Kinda cool actually. I would assume the position is virtual. Wouldn’t mind having a small office overlooking Monterey Bay on the Pacific Grove-Monterey boundary. Monte Sereno wouldn’t be bad if one needed to be closer to Santa Clara. Alameda could work too.

      Alas, my writing skills reflect my increasingly lazy nature. Anyway, I have a rather satisfying occupation these days. Would be taking the opportunity seriously if we were talking early to mid 90s (a lifetime ago).

      C’mon Grant. Go for it! More autonomy!

  54. So fourth string RB Wilson is injured and not practicing. Time to suit up fifth stringer Matt Dayes.
    Meanwhile Dekoda Watson returns to IR — this time with torn calf. Time to warm up Pita…

    1. That is some great work done by the author of that article. It blows up the idea that any team would have to change their offense for Kaepernick because most of the concepts laid out in that article are used all over the NFL. There is no reason for Kap not to have a job; not a valid one anyway.

        1. Just another unforced error. Brown was perfectly capable, and there were more desperate draft needs, like a PASS RUSHER.
          KS also stated he likes a player to fit within exact measurements. Too bad he did not find a Julio Jones type that is 6′ 3″ and 220 lbs.

        2. Huh! You are comparing apples to oranges. Kaep can be accommodated in the Skin scheme easily as shown in the article. Trent Brown was a non-starter in the run game. You surely realize that his role with the Pats is primarily to pass block for Brady — not run downfield at an angle in the zone blocking scheme. He may also have attitude problems that is bad for a young, rebuilding team but not in an established locker room.

          Not even sure why you are even bringing up this issue since Kyle has elaborated at length about the need for a pure thrower and pocket passer for his offense, and a instinctive and athletic downfield blocker for his run game. I guess you are hunting for some conspiracy theory or to show us that you are better than Kyle at selecting personnel for his offense.

  55. Grant…

    Are you drawing energy from some of the negativity shown you on this blog? I’d half expect you be be above this but I see you’re in there slinging and sniping. Feels like 9th grade at times.

      1. Playground behaviors/rules…


        Extrapolate to this blog. Require posters to certify they’ve viewed the video and understand its content. Failure to comply will result in banning–Grant included. He’s our leader. We expect more from him.

        We can create a behavior review board–MWNiner as chairperson (nice guy), and 3-4 others. Not Grant.

        1. yeah … East … but ..
          I’m surprised…( shocked I tell you ) that
          Kyle Nelson … didn’t even get a mention !

  56. From the halls of Cardinal Newman
    To the shores of Half Moon Bay
    We will fight against angry sports writers
    With spit balls and dry clay
    We will fight for lunch and recess
    And to keep our desks a mess
    We are proud to claim the title
    To angry sports writers, we are PESTS

    1. Nothing could be finer, than to be a 49er, in the morning
      Nothing could be sweetah, than to see a ring to greet ya, in the morning
      Where many years of glories, and the feats of yore
      Whispering pretty stories, I long to hear once more
      Nothing could be finer, than to be a 49er, in the morning
      If I had Aladdin’s lamp for only a day
      I’d make a wish, and here is what I’d say
      Nothing could be finer, than to be a 49er, in the morning

      1. I was cruisin’ in my Stingray late one night
        When an XKE pulled up on the right
        He rolled down the window of his shiny new Jag
        And challenged me then and there to a drag

        I said “You’re on buddy — my mill’s running fine
        Let’s come off the line now at Sunset and Vine
        But I’ll go you one better, if you’ve got the nerve
        Let’s race all the way — to Dead Man’s Curve”

        is no place to play
        (Dead Man’s Curve) you’d best keep away
        (Dead Man’s Curve) I can hear ’em say
        “Won’t come back from Dead Man’s Curve”

        1. My White Bicycle/Nazareth

          My white bicycle, My white bicycle, my white bicycle
          Riding all around the street
          Four o’clock and they’re all asleep
          I’m not tired and it’s so late
          Moving fast everything looks great.
          My white bicycle, my white bicycle
          See that man, he’s all alone
          Looks so happy but he’s far from home
          Ring my bell, smile at him
          Better knock over his garbage bin
          My white bicycle, my white bicycle
          The rain comes down but I don’t care
          The wind is blowing in my hair
          Seagulls flying in the air
          My white bicycle, my white bicycle
          Policeman shouts but I don’t see him
          They’re one thing I don’t believe in
          To find some charge but it’s not leavin’
          Lift both hands, his head in disgrace
          Shines no light upon my face
          Through the darkness, we still speed
          My white bicycle and me

  57. Wow! I think we’ve finally got a blueprint to return the 49ers to glory. I don’t know what time it is where all you all are but it’s (past) 5 o’clock here and I’m having another drink. Cheers.

  58. Three things, Walsh had on his roster the best QB in the history of the game and we have a serviceable and might be good third string QB in Mullins, secondly our two starting receivers have been injured and our rookie receivers are showing some promise but not quite there yet. Lastly, Grant does not like KS, so I take his article with a grain of salt. Thankfully there are many others on here that knows football way more than me and certainty Grant that can see that KS should not be fired after season two and we should not sign Kaep who can’t read defenses and not a student of the game,

      1. Another Walsh comparison. Let’s just relive the glory days 30 years later.

        Should we talk about Rice and Montana as well?

      2. Yes in his entire career, KS has only two seasons. Walsh did jack with his first two seasons, Montana played in most of the games.

        1. Sure Neal. Walsh won 6 games his first 2 seasons without his star QB. Shanahan is on track to win 2.

          If Shanahan hadn’t been gifted Garoppolo it is very realistic to say the 49ers would be on pace for back to back 1 win seasons.

          1. Jack,
            None of this matters till next season. The pressure will be on JG, KS and JL. Next season will be a interesting one. Can Lynch knock it out of the park with draft picks and free agency? Can Jimmy G play great and stay healthy. I like the promise of our rookie receivers,. We all know what we need in the draft and free agency. Although I can’t see York firing KS and JL, with still 3 more years on their deals after next year

      3. “Walsh won a number of games with his backup QB and even a few with his 3rd string QB.” Hammer

        Who were the teams they beat, and what was the 49ers supporting cast in those wins?

  59. I wonder which NFL team has the most angry fan base? Is there a way to measure that?

    Too, is there a way to distinguish among the various anger threads? I think we’ve discovered that our anger is all over the place–we’re not unified by any stretch. Angry experts with air tight takes from all points of the compass. And each is right. Period.

    Such is the human condition I suppose–especially with sports fans.

    Imagine a blog operating during the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge–screwed up engineering, it’ll never stand, it’s way too big (no way there’ll be that much traffic), it’s too small (can’t carry enough traffic), too expensive, bad color choice, and on and on and on.

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