Who should the 49ers take with the No. 1 pick if they get it?

San Francisco 49ers general manager John Lynch speaks to reporters at the team’s football facility in Santa Clara, Calif., Monday, April 23, 2018. (AP Photo/Jeff Chiu)

The 49ers have the worst record in the NFL. They would own the top pick in next year’s draft if the season ended today.

It’s possible the 49ers will own the top pick when the season ends a little more than a month from now. Who would you take with the top pick, and why?

This article has 422 Comments

  1. If I was in charge i will trade down a few spots down and draft Florida State Burns.

    Why?….get more draft picks
    And …..pair Burns next to Thomas . Burns is very similar to Aldon Smith. Thomas is never going to play with his head up, he is best well bull rushing or being physically tied up. That is why he plays best against run plays.

    An athletic pass rusher like Burns will excel next to a disruptive hold his ground DT like Thomas ……

    Think Aldon Smith and Justin Smith…..

    Funny red flags with Bosa…..the whole family’s focus on money to me is a concern…..

        1. Prime, I did advocate trading back, and selecting Burns.
          .
          I also mentioned Bosa and his injury proclivity.
          .
          Nice, starting out hurling insults. You are SO predictable, and classless.

          1. You put words in peoples mouth and cannot back up anything you say because in your words, you are “too lazy”.
            You are a liar and a fraud!

              1. “Well, at least I do not welch on bets, like you do. Razor accepted your bet, then you put conditions on it”

                Once again you lie without all the facts.

                You are a liar and a fraud because you are too lazy to put together a valid argument. Cannot back up anything.

        2. sebnynah & prime time – reads like the two of you need a time out and a chance to think about returning to civil discourse.

          Yes, since the Niners are more than 1 year away and more than 1 lead pipe lock Pro Bowl impact player away from being a Super Bowl contender I would trade down to accumulate more top round picks not only in the 2019 draft but also in the 2020 draft.

          The first selection in the 2019 draft should bring 2 number ones in 2019, a #3 in 2019 and at least a #2 and a #4 or #5 in 2020.

          Niners need too many players just to settle for the #1 and think they are well on their way.

          Not in any order at this time, but needs in first two rounds are CB; DE; WR; OL. Trading down and maybe a second trade down in the first round can get you all of these players in rounds 1 and 2

    1. Oneniner

      In my humble opinion, you were doing good until you put Burns next to Thomas…Unless you’ve got a chrystal ball that says that Thomas is going to ‘grow’ 4″ taller and lengthen his Arms and Legs proportionately, Solomon Thomas isn’t going to have a long career as a DLineman in the NFL chiefly because he will always be going up against bigger better Olinemen who are faster and stronger than him. I would trade Thomas, Celek, and Ward for draft choices, and trade down as you suggested to take more picks preferably in the 2nd to 4th rounds…a meat eating TE, and two TALL WRs and spend the rest on depth at OL…

      1. I understand the bust stamp on Thomas ….. he is not flashy and lacks a pass rush move….but no one can deny he is good against the run……which I understand better after watching him play…

        He is always off balance while rushing the passer because he over plays his first move…..which is good when trying to stop the run but not when he has to readjust to the passer.

        We don’t need all the Dline men to be pass rushers….Thomas has value….

        Celek has no value……too many missed opportunities

        Ward ….brings value to the Safety position…..I will offer him a similar contract given to Tartt…a two-year deal worth $13 million, with a chance to climb to $15 million if he can reach various incentives……but we all know if he reaches FA another team will sign immediately to big $…..

    2. The biggest possible trade candidates are either the raiders or giants. I don’t believe Bosa will go number one in this draft. He will slide, just like his brother and either Quinnen Williams or the top QB will go number one

    3. Bosa takes a year off? No way he is a top pick. Niners need to get off the wounded warrior-hope for the best list. And please let Garnett go. He is out again with a minor injury. He has no desire to play as was evident 2 years ago. Another bust first rounder.

  2. Greedy Williams. Best CB in the draft, no injury concerns. With our lack of pass rush, he and Sherman can literally give our pass rushers, an extra 2 seconds to get to the qb. We have lacked this since prime time…

    1. Why wouldn’t we just get a pass rusher in a great pass rusher class to boost our pass rush so that the corners don’t have to worry bout covering another 2 seconds

      1. Lucas, because if this pass rush class is really that deep, then you get the best player, and get you a pass rusher Rd 2. And I’m willing to bet their aren’t to many guys better at their position than greedy.

    2. @steel….have you been watching the NFL this season…..CB’s can’t catch up to these offenses …….a team needs a sophisticated pass rush to win…..having just one dynamic pass rusher won’t do it anymore….see Broncos……

      My take is a team needs it’s Dline playing together in a scheme……consistently getting to the QB is the only way to play defense now……

      1. Yes sir I have been watching the NFL… And our own d proves it. They rarely ever go to Sherman. Why? Because we literally only have 1 good cb. Greedy on the other side gives us an even playing field. Nick bosa will be hurt before the season starts. We have had a good pass rush before with Smith’s R Us. But what happened in the championship games? Some wideout got behind our mediocre CB’s. I have clamored for a shutdown corner for years and we never have one and seem to get beat by mediocre WR’s in the biggest games. If the pass rush class is this talented, get one in round 2. Bout if the bet CB by a mile is right there, get him. Because by God the 49ers need one

        1. Both Aldon and Justin got hurt down the stretch. Justin played with a torn triceps and Aldon played with a torn shoulder labrum. You’re not gonna have solid pass rush playing with basically one arm.

      2. That’s a good take. And the niners are actually doing that. Or that’s what they say they are doing. This dline is run stuff heavy, so the need for a pass rusher is there. But so is the need to try to shut down the playmaker. It’s pick your poison. As send last night. Neither one of those teams have elite cb but they both have elite pass rushers. But giving up 50 is nothing to brag about. What if they had elite CB’s out there? Could have cut the field in half and changed the game and the score

        1. Each team’s running backs totaled 70 yards last night, and the two passers combined for just
          over 900 yards passing. So you can’t blame the other teams’ rushing attack for the passing success. That game proved you can win in the NFL without a good pass rush.

    3. I’m a huge Greedy Williams fan. I think he’s a future All Pro player and will be a leader on whichever team drafts him. I don’t think he’s the splash most teams look for in the #1 pick. As much as I hate it, I think the only option the 49ers have if they can’t trade the #1 pick is to draft Nick Bosa. He’s obviously the best pass rusher in the draft but I’m not a Bosa fan. The injury issue concerns me and I very much dislike his decision to leave Ohio State. IMO he abandoned his team in the exact same way Joe Williams abandoned his team. In some ways, I respect Joe Williams decision to leave college more than I respect Nick Bosa’s decision to leave college. Williams was battling personal demons due to a tragedy. Bosa just made a business decision and turned his back on the young men who he worked alongside for years. I’ve got zero respect for that decision. I wish it weren’t true but Bosa’s talent and the 49ers pass rush need makes him the clear cut #1 choice.

          1. And I agree to differ. One injury does not make a player prone. Case in point, when Brees injured his throwing arm/shoulder, Miami took your view while the Saints did not. How’d that work out for the Dolphins?

              1. Brees was a F/A. He visited Miami and they declined to sign him because they believed his surgically repaired shoulder posed too great of risk….

              2. Razor is right. Brees was injured when he played for the Chargers. They declined to resign him because of the injury concern. The Dolphins wouldn’t take a chance on him either so he ended up with the Saints. The rest is history as they say.

            1. Cassie, I am just being polite. I like Razor, and want to keep being on good terms with him.
              .
              Of Course, Baalke treated players like pieces of meat, so civility is not in your lexicon.

              1. “Cassie, I am just being polite. I like Razor, and want to keep being on good terms with him”

                Yeah because outside of Razor, the rest of the blog thinks your an idiot!
                And for those that don’t, keep talking they’ll eventually figure it out!

          2. He had missed one game in his College career before this season. He was unblockable in the 3 games he played to start the season. This is not a hard decision, unless he fails a medical in the offseason.

            1. « He was unblockable in the 3 games he played to start the season. »

              Good thing he was unblockable by the powerhouse olines of Oregon State and Rutgers.

              1 game with at least 2 sacks in his college career.

              1. Good thing he was unblockable by the powerhouse olines of Oregon State and Rutgers.
                1 game with at least 2 sacks in his college career.

                So what? It`s not all about sacks as I know you know. Pressures, penetration and stopping the run. He does everything at a high level. He is the best option in the draft at our biggest need. This is not a tough decision, at least it shouldn`t be.

            2. Doesn’t Seb tout Gore. What was his predraft history.

              PS – this in no way is a knock on Gore. All knocks are intended for the principal village clown and his propensity to swing both ways.

        1. If it’s #1 it’s not even debatable. If it’s #2 trade down and take Ferrell.

          Why? We need Edge players. Plus we need other players too.

          I believe getting a CB, a Safety WR, another Edge and a Tackle have to be pretty high priorities as well.

        2. What Rocket, Under and Razor said. Bosa is the easy choice. Think Justin Smith at his best but on the edge. Nick is better and more talented then his brother. No brainer!

    1. In my opinion, if we had bosa on the line and Witherspoon on the corner, we would still be up sh$$ Creek. I don’t care how good you are or fast you are or strong, hell if we had both bosas and watt in the middle, and Witherspoon on the corner, we are fried. Unless he takes extreme strides in his game, he freaking sucks. Bosa isn’t going to change that. And as long as he’s out there no dlineman will help this team. Just ask Von Miller and his so called DeMarcus Ware replacement.

  3. Trade back. We need a lot of help and only have 5 picks. Even a trade back a few spots could net a future first and an extra 2nd this year, at the min.

  4. I will not point out individual players, because there still are the Bowl games and the Combine.
    .
    However, I will delineate an overall strategy.
    .
    The Niners should trade back with a QB needy team. They should trade back more than once, to get as many second and third round picks as possible. In fact they should obtain 2020 second and third round picks, if possible. They should move back 4 to 6 spots each time, so they still stay in the top half of the first round.
    .
    Yes, they may miss out on an elite player, but they need multiple bodies to fill multiple needs.
    .
    Major needs- Pass rusher, single high safety, shutdown corner, big and fast WR,
    .
    Other needs- Eventual O line replacement for Staley, TE to help Kittle, big durable fast RB and MLB depth.
    .
    The Niners should be patient, save their draft picks, and not move up in the draft. They could even move back in the second round, just as long as the player who they target is still attainable.
    .
    The Niners should put weight on Senior Bowl and East West Game players, and their practices, to help formulate realistic evaluations and assessments.
    .
    The Niners should avoid red flagged players like Foster and Joe Williams.
    .
    They should avoid ACL players like Street.
    .
    They should not reach into the third round to pick a 6th round ranked player like CJB.
    .
    JL should put on his Trader Bill hat, and make deals that benefit both teams.

    1. Looking at the list of DEs, Bosa, Ferrel, Sweat and Polite are top picks, but Rashan Gary or Zach Allen may be available if the Niners trade back.
      . I also like Brian Burns and Joe Jackson.

  5. I’d lean to trading back for additional picks if we could get a decent deal. That said, if the offer isn’t good enough don’t over think it, just take Bosa.

  6. Jack Hammer thinks that if the 49ers have the number 1 pick they should first be looking to trade back to pick up additional picks in rounds 2/3 and maybe a first for next year.

    1. They can look, but sources are indicating that Herbert will return for his senior year. I wouldn’t give up Bosa for anything less than two 1st round picks….

      1. Raz

        Bosa reminds me of an ancient warrior out of U Texas and the Atlanta Falcons…LB Tommy Nobis…From out of the same cookie-cutter as Randy White with attitude, Nobis could not be moved…By the end of the first half, Nobis resembled a ‘mummy’ undressing…his bandage cost must have rivaled his paycheck…always hurt, but still in the game…Yeah, find us a Tommy Nobis and a Randy White, and send the rest out for coffee…Bosa will be hurt (injured) more than Reuben Foster….

    2. They can trade down in the second round for additional picks. If they have the first pick and don’t keep it to take Bosa it will be a huge mistake imo. Biggest need filled with best player in the draft. What is there to think about?

      1. They can, but they won’t get anywhere close to the same amount of draft capital back and it will likely limit them to getting just one elite level talent.

        1. They won’t get the same amount of draft capital but they will get additional picks in the rounds where more is better. If they trade down in the first they cut down their chances of landing the one elite talent.

  7. Trade down if the right offer came along. What would the right offer be? Hard to say on 20 November. Would be best to retain a first pick somewhere in the top 4-8 positions and secure additional 2nd and 3rd round picks–with another 1st or 2nd in 2020. Perhaps a player is part of the deal as well–coming in or going out.

    Shanahan and Lynch, holding a petty grudge against Grant, will overdraft–selecting in the first round a short armed 5’11” center who, at best, would have been a UDFA.

    Will become very interesting at the conclusion of the Combine on 4 March.

  8. Ordinarily I’d be a fan of the “trade back for more picks” scenario, but the 49ers don’t need a “bunch of guys”. They have a “bunch of guys”. They need a few GAME CHANGERS in key spots. Only way to get them is draft them high or pray for another teams stupidity (I’m looking at you John Gruden). To me, its all about Nick Bosa. If they think Bosa is as good as advertised, they have to take him. Outside of QB, there is no position more vital to team success. A steady pass rush would work miracles for the 49ers. They could close out games and would likely have several more wins this year even with an injured Garoppolo.

  9. Bosa if they stay at #1, but I would trade back if possible. Too many needs, too few picks. And plenty of really good looking edge guys that will be available in the 1st round.

      1. Well, I think it is unrealistic to think they will get 2 first round picks without a top QB for teams to covet. I would be looking for a small trade back and trying to pick up at least a 3rd and 4th this year plus a 2nd next year.

        1. Yea, pretty much what I figured. Can’t do that. Bosa is worth more to me than a 2nd/3rd/4th. No way that would have gotten Garrett from the Browns. Chubb? Sure. Bears gave up two 1st’s for Mack….

          1. I understand your point and I certainly wouldn’t be upset with drafting Bosa, but worth keeping in mind re your examples that the Browns already had a boat load of picks and it was a bad year for edge guys, while Mack is an established elite level player in the NFL.

            Bosa looks great, but he’s still never played a down in the NFL and this year there is going to be a lot of good edge guys to choose from while the 49ers are starting with just five draft picks with a lot of holes to fill.

            1. To me Bosa is the only blue chip pass rusher in this draft. Sure there’s a bunch of good pass rushers in this draft, and each of them come with their own question marks. The only question with Bosa is if he checks out medically. I have no reason to believe he won’t, and after studying the dissertations from doctors who have experience with the injury, there is little to no chance that it will hinder him in the future or create any proclivity for recurrence. The 49ers have loads of cap room. If they can lure in Thomas at FS, and grab Dee Ford, I see no reason why 5 draft picks won’t be satisfactory. We have plenty of bodies without any blue chip player other than maybe Buckner. I just do not believe, nor would I ever believe giving away one at such a premium position for lower draft picks where the chances for NFL success drop exponentially is a good idea….

          2. Raz

            Don’t let another team’s stupidity guide ours…Don’t bring Seb’s logic of “Trade our trash for their treasure” bundling…and for crissake don’t bet on finding another Garropolo deal…they don’t come ’round that often. Begin NOW, and reassess who is on our roster who will work to become GOOD, and get them some snaps …every team has a couple of them and should want to swap them out…find who’ll fit Kyles system from someone else’s bench….there are a LOT of 6th-7th rounders and UDFAs on other’s PSs…RAID ‘EM …Then work your ‘trade magic’

            1. The fact that a lot of former Niners are playing for other teams, prove my point.
              .
              I saw Aldrick Robinson, Bruce Ellington, Aaron Lynch, Crabtree, Hyde, Looney, and even Derek Carrier playing. Attaochu has 2 sacks.
              .
              The Niners did trade away players. Brown, Macdonald, Harold. They just did not bundle players.
              .
              Hmmm, sounds like you are parroting me, advocating poaching players from other team’s PS.

        2. Terrible. Trade back from the first overall pick for 3rd, 4th, and maybe a future 2nd? Cmon bruh. So we could potentially pass up on the best player in the draft, at a position of need, and end up with Witherspoon (3rd), Joe Williams (4th), and Dante Pettis (2nd)?

          If we trade back from #1, it’s absolutely mandatory that it involves an extra first round pick in addition to high draft choices (2nd and 3rds). I’ve never seen someone trade back from #1 overall for a collection of mid-round picks. Even just a trade back from #1 to #4 should cost an extra 1st, a 2nd, and possibly even a future 2nd/3rd.

          1. C’mon bruh, take a look through the history of trading 1st overall picks and you will see you only get that type of compensation when trading back a long way and a QB is involved.

            As for never seeing it before, yeah, seriously, go back and look at the history of trading 1st overall picks. C’mon bruh!

            1. Scooter, considering Lynch’s offer for Mack Daddy was purportedly richer than the Bears offer; something tells me he’s not that concerned with the quantity of 49ers draft picks….

              1. True, and it may well be that Lynch would prefer to take Bosa than trade back. I am just stating what I would do. As I said before, I would be very happy taking Bosa. He’s the best edge player in the draft and probably the best player in the draft period.

              2. If he’s healthy. When you have to take off so much time to get healthy, that’s concerning.
                His brothers health history also should be a red flag.

            2. I haven’t looked through the history but off the top of my head, I can’t remember anyone trading out of #1 to get a 3rd and 4th and future 2nd.

              McG, I would suggest you define your trade better. Are you trading out of the #1 to get the #2? Are you trading out of #1 to get #10? Makes a huge difference in what you get in return. But no one trades out of #1 to pick up a 3rd and 4th and future 2nd. At most, you can only trade down one spot for that package.

              1. I said a small move back. A few spots at most. Still a top 4 pick.

                The most recent trades of the 1st overall pick that was a small move were the early to mid-2000s, with the Rivers-Eli trade, and the Vick trade. It doesn’t happen often.

          2. Exactly! If we have the #1 pick, trade back onlyyyy to the 3rd, 4th, or 5th spot only. Prayyyy Greedy is there. If not Ferrel. If CB 1st, Leo LB next, followed by Big WR, The FS, Then OH, and LT. All other picks are dept.

          3. Here’s whats going to happen. Gruden is getting destroyed over the Mack trade. He needs Nick Bosa. 49ers trade the #1 pick to the Raiders for their Pick #2 and Pick #25 in the 2018 NFL Draft. The 49ers select CB Greedy Williams with the #2 pick and DE Clelin Ferrell with the #25 pick.

            Thats a lock. Take it to the bank.

        3. Well, I think it is unrealistic to think they will get 2 first round picks without a top QB for teams to covet. I would be looking for a small trade back and trying to pick up at least a 3rd and 4th this year plus a 2nd next year.

          Correct which is why you don’t trade down. That is not enough to pass on the best player in the draft. Not even close really.

          1. If the gap is as big as you believe between Bosa and the other edge guys then I agree, take Bosa as the trade back isn’t worth it if it means you get a big drop off in talent. Where I disagree is the size of the gap.

            1. Dunno, taking the 2014 through 2017 drafts from 1500 players, only 14 earned blue chip status. That’s about 3.5 per draft, and this draft is purportedly weaker than most. The gap between Bosa and the rest might be bigger than anticipated, Scooter….

              1. Looking at the edge players from 2017 to the upcoming draft, how would you rank them? Based on that, do you still think this year’s class has a big gap between Bosa and the rest?

              2. Well, as I said to rocket, if that’s the case you take him. Maybe I am underrating how good Bosa is. I definitely think he is the best edge guy this year, and definitely a strong case can be made for best prospect in the draft, but I don’t think he is a generational talent. I just think he is really good across the board, which when combined makes for an excellent prospect.

              3. Scooter, I get what you’re alluding to. Nick might not be the generational talent that say Garrett could be, but his coordination between hips, feet, and hands is like watching an artist. When you combine that with his nearly elite athleticism; it makes for a very difficult sell for mine….

              4. Bosa is not in the Myles Garret class but he’s in the Bradley Chubb discussion. Can dominate in both run and pass and has an all day motor. I don’t see a comparable talent in this class which is why I wouldn’t pass on him.

              5. I thought it was interesting to hear Joey remark how he felt Gus Bradley’s scheme suited him, and the praise he gave Giff Smith, the Chargers defensive line coach….

              6. Yeah, you guys are in the same ballpark as me when it comes to Bosa then – not the talent someone like Garrett was coming out, but around the same as Chubb (I would say a bit higher, but yeah, that ballpark).

                I guess I must think more highly of some of the other edge guys coming out than you guys do then though. Because I think this class has talent closer to Chubb than 2017 or 2018 did. I think Ferrell is a slightly less athletic Chubb/ more athletic Derek Barnett. Montez Sweat looks like an Aldon Smith type player – a bit linear but still a good athlete with balance, a huge wingspan and knows how to keep OTs off his frame. You guys know what I think of Polite – I see him as a Vic Beasley type athlete that with the right coaching can really develop into a top edge player. Josh Allen is still probably a bit underappreciated, but he’s a good athlete with length and flexibility plus a high motor. Brian Burns also fits that same bill, but has better get off and flexibility than Allen.

                I think all of those guys are better prospects than the edge guys that have been drafted after Garrett and Chubb in the first round the past couple of years.

              7. Scooter,

                I agree that this class of pass rushers is better than last years as a whole, I just don’t see anybody in Bosa’s class worthy of passing on him for. I’d be really disappointed if they had the chance to draft him and passed, but I also understand the other side that thinks grabbing one of the other pass rushers with a trade down to get more picks is the way to go. I just see a chance to add an elite talent to a roster full of average players at too many spots and wouldn’t pass it up.

            2. I think Bosa is clearly the best player on the Edge but Ferrell is not bad either.
              In fact I prefer Ferrell to Chubb last year, which may sound crazy to others but I believe he is the better pass rusher, who has played well on the biggest stage.

              1. Doesn’t sound crazy to me shoup. I don’t think there is much difference between Chubb and Ferrell, though I think Ferrell might be a slightly worse athlete.

        4. Scooter McG

          Excellent post, …and a good compensation package…seriously, I believe that we have 1 or 2 Ws left in this season which will remove us from the #1…I think we’ll be at #3…let’s not screw THAT up again….Bosa’s mother figured out Joey’s contract…and he’s not worth breaking the bank for…I like your trade back to maybe #6, and then perhaps a 3rd and 4th and next years 2nd…Two #2’s is a pipedream…

    1. I like Bosa, but I’m wondering about the severity of his ‘abdominal/groin’ core injury which needed surgery. In the past, such injuries have flared up time and again to limit player availability/effectiveness.

      Recall what happened to Ecic Wright from the mid-80s. He was never quite the same afterward.
      https://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/08/sports/sports-people-49ers-wright-out.html

      I understand that sports medicine has improved greatly, but that abdominal/groin stuff is pretty nasty. Wonder if Bosa will participate in all Combine activities?

        1. Wait…..so you are willing to draft Bosa #1…..kowning he quit on the team his final season……wont do so much in combine……high possibility he will not resign with same team after his rookie contract…..

          1. Yes. He made a smart decision to move on from Ohio State considering he wasn’t going to be ready until late in the season and still might not be 100%.

            As long as he checks out at his pro day there are no other question marks.

  10. If Saleh is let go and replaced with a DC who prefers a different scheme, I wonder what the draft priorities on defense would be?

    1. That’s why I think it’s a waste of time to speculate now given that if they do replace Saleh, there may be an entirely different list of needs generated by the guys who are supposed to know. It is impossible for me to believe that someone with the stature of, say Vic Fangio, would have blessed the selection of Thomas given that they already had two first round picks on the DL. And, if Fangio did not have enough juice to veto Solly’s selection, therein lies the problem. Saleh obviously has no juice because Thomas was drafted with no specific plan on how to use him. Like we used to say in the ’60s – he’s still finding himself..

    1. From the link provided:

      “The first round is full of land mines,” says one veteran AFC exec.
      “This is not a top–10 type of draft,” adds an AFC college scouting director. “To me, there are a lot pass rushers and D-linemen, but I don’t know that there’s anyone that compares to, say, Bradey Chubb, if you take [Nick] Bosa out of it.”

      This has been my view all along. There are a lot of pass rushers, but they are not top level prospects and only 1 that has elite blue chip traits and that is Bosa. This is why you don’t trade down if you have the number one pick and your top need is an Edge rusher. This team needs elite talent; not more guys.

        1. Agreed. In that scenario, I take Jachai Polite. Some question his length, but I guarantee his arms are over 33″:

          Mack Daddy: https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/08/30/USAT/2bd0a513-4789-4bad-8bb9-f8d141ac5298-USATSI_10484988.jpg

          Polite: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/62/ff/d262ffb81622f7dcc4754ce20867d0b5.jpg

          Now Mack weighed in and measured: 6′-3″ 250lbs 33.25″ arms
          They list Polite: 6′-2″ 260lbs

          After studying the photos, you tell me who has more length?

          1. Geez…. I hope all this doesn’t lead to another round of Grant igniting a furious argument during OTAs over ‘how much does so-and-so really weigh?!?!’

  11. The draft board is going to change 10 times over from now till March. If Bosa remains the consensus from now till then, we have to take him. Otherwise, try to trade down.

    Id also like to take the tackle Jonah Williams from Alabama or the corner Greedy Williams from LSU. Both are areas of need and again like everyone mentioned, this draft is full of good edge rushers and corners later in the draft.

  12. Still working on who to pick. Edge rusher and corner back are my hopes. Nick Bosa comes to mind, but some fans are wary of durability concerns.

    Here’s what I don’t want the 49ers to draft with a (high) pick

    – A player that doesn’t exist. No matter how dire the need for a sack master, if a proven edge rusher isn’t there don’t waste a high pick hoping to convert the player into one.

    – A player with an injured ACL or Achilles.

    – A player with off field concerns or motivational concerns.

    1. Good call Brodie.

      Please don’t select a player that wont be on the field.
      Please do select a player with enough stature to step up to NFL and make a difference in games played.

      I’d also like to add that the Niners should avoid “scheme” picks or trades. Get players that will win their matchups.

  13. Bosa, if medical reports come back good.

    Or trade down if you get a boatload. Problem is that only Raiders have multiple picks that would make it worthwhile. Would they trade #3 and #15 for #1 to get Bosa?

    There are potentially 7 first round pass rushers, so while Boas is the prize, trading down might not be that bad. I would try to trade down a couple times and try to get 3 first round picks. Get Pass rusher, CB, and WR. Yes, that would be difficult to pull off, but the draft capital of the #1 pick makes it a possibility.

  14. If we can possibly trade back for 2 1sts & 2 2nds (at least!), it’d be hard not to take it.

    The option of then trading 1 of the 1sts or a 2nd and 3rd / 4th package for Jalen Ramsey and hopefully still being able to draft a premium pass rusher is too appealing.

    We have the money to also pay the best DE in free agency (I’m praying Ford, Clowney and / or Lawrence makes it!) and go grab Earl a Thomas. That’s a scary defense. Use the other picks on WR(s) and depth all around and we have a team going into 2019!

  15. Clelin Ferrell, definitely a pass rusher, a true pass rusher. The only way to take pressure off a young and poor secondary is a solid pass rush. Buckner can’t do it alone, I would solely play Thomas inside if he’s not gone in the offseason and get a DE that wreaks havoc. Then come back and draft another DE later.

  16. Trade back n get xtra draft picks n grab Sweat. Second round trade out of n get what you can get in picks for this years Third round in those two trades. Trade our third round pick back– depending on your board. Now were in picks 65 to 100 with 3 or 4 picks. Get OLB, CB n future LT. 4th round TE. 6th Safety. 7th ILB. Like the seventh, any extra picks choose for rushing passer or depth. Save ton of $ in cutting NT williams. WR Garcon. MLB smith. Long snapper. Sign fa corner n pass rusher n wr with that $. Ink our guys like deforest.

      1. Maybe, just maybe they would have if already in Las Vegas, but after Lynch screwed Gruden outta McGlinchey; you’re right to say that there was no way he was gonna send us Mack Daddy….

      2. That’s how I read it too, and Lynch seems to think so as well. This proves that this regime does understand the importantance of an Edge rusher, contrary to what some people said after the draft.

    1. I can’t see the Niners offering two first round picks. My guess is that Lynch feels a 1 and a 2 or 3 from them is better than the two lower first round picks they’ll get from the Bears. Who knows, but I’m glad it didn’t happen.

      1. Shawnrhod

        If I read it right, Armstead is tied for second on the team for sacks, first in hurries, as well as QB hits…How about cheering the guy instead of chumping him…

  17. If not Bosa, trade back with Jax in a package that involves their pick and Jalen Ramsey. Theres a chance they could trade him this off season

  18. We need a playmaker!

    I know hard to tell, but other then QB (OL as well b/c they are not impact playmakers) we should draft the best playmaker available.

    I’d argue we need help at every position and a playmaker is needed. Last year I thought safety was on the up tick so NO don’t draft FSU S or Fitz… but man it would have been nice to have a stud in the secondary.

  19. I understand trading back for extra picks…But theres too much risk. U trade back and whiff on those extra picks, what do you have then? Your better off holding the number one pick unless you get proven players in a trade.

  20. Just a thought. Trade back to 13 to 20 grab a second round pick as well. Draft Montez Sweat at DE MSST. There is the edge rusher. Second round grab Collin Johnson 6_2 receiver from Texas to give Jimmy a Target in the red zone and grab Bo Benzschawel from Wisconsin at guard with extra pick to help that interior line. Also sign Laveon Bell as we have the cash then go defense round three Jamal Peters or Taylor Rapp CB and round four Tre Lamar ILB Clemson

    1. I like all of your choices, and the order in which they were taken.
      .
      However, Bell might not come to the Niners. He wants a ring, and the Ravens might be his landing spot, since that would be a revenge destination.

  21. The question is…….will there be enough demand for teams to trade up. If we can stockpile and still get a pass rush beast I’m all for it……then get a few DB’s. Hopefully some of the picks this year can develop. We need really good players. We have some of the pieces of the puzzle but not enough.

    One of the reason the rams are so good right now is from this trade. (The Redskins will send their first-round (sixth overall) and second-round picks in this year’s draft, plus first-round picks in 2013 and 2014, for what is expected to be the selection of Baylor’s Griffin.)

    1. That trade with the Redskins has little to do with why they are good now. The Rams have one player left from the picks they acquired in that trade. They are good right now because of picks they traded away to move up for Goff and because of FA and trade acquisitions.

  22. Trading back is risky, but a QB needy team might give up a Goff or Wentz amount of picks, especially if the Niners consummate the elegant tank and wind up with the first pick.
    .
    The main strategy would be to determine where in the draft is the sweet spot- the spot where the players will not only contribute, but excel. Usually, that is around pick 80. Last draft, Michael Gallup was chosen at 81. In 2017, Kareem Hunt was chosen at 86.
    .
    Once that sweet spot is determined, the Niners should try to get as many draft picks before that number. The Niners would then have as many possible starters as those draft picks, locking them up into rookie contracts.
    .
    The Niners should not have traded away pick number 74. They should have been patient, and gotten Pettis anyways. If not Pettis, there were several other WRs available. Christian Kirk, Anthony Miller, DJ Chark and James Washington. With that saved pick, the Niners could have taken Derrick NNadl, Sam Hubbard, Malik Jefferson, Rasheem Green or Arden Key.
    .
    The Niners should study the Seahawks, and their draft strategy. They traded back multiple times, and got a boatload of picks. The trick is to make the deal seem beneficial to both teams.

  23. The 49ers defense needs someone to effectively set the edge against the run and the pass. That is exactly what Nick Bosa can do and why he should be taken by the 49ers if they have the top pick. Normally, I am one who would say that trading back is the better option, but that will not be the case during the draft unless the 49ers inexplicably are able to land Lawrence, Clowney, or Clark in free agency, or there are stellar QB options available. Neither scenario is likely to happen, so taking the best player in the draft who can greatly improve the pass rush is more or less a no-brainer.

    1. I disagree they need an edge guy that can be both a good pass rusher and run defender. Obviously that would be ideal, but really what they need is pass rush. If whoever they get is just a designated pass rusher for his first year, ala Aldon Smith, then that is fine.

        1. The defense was put in a tough spot in many of the losses due to turnovers and poor QB play. Garoppolo doesn’t put them in those positions most likely.

          1. BUT, a defense that blows 3 4th quarter leads?
            And a defense that’s not getting better as a group or individually for that matter?

            Neither the offense or the defense complemented each other well this year but blowing leads is strictly on a defense, and that to me adds up to three more wins.

            1. I disagree that blowing leads is strictly on the defense, but it likely doesn’t come down to that it in some of these games if Garoppolo is playing anyway.

              1. How is an offense responsible for giving up game winning drives by AZ twice, GB and NY?

                Maybe Jimmy G leads better drives late in those games or maybe he doesn’t. Pure speculation.
                My point is it’s the job of the defense to hold a lead.

              2. I personally think Jimmy G makes our defense better but I don’t think he is good enough to mask Robert Saleh’s incompetence.

                If we are speculating about how many wins Jimmy G would account for if playing I said 3 more wins. Rocket said 5 more. My response was “I’d agree if Saleh wasn’t running things on defense“
                You have an issue with my reply to his speculation based on my speculation?

              3. How is an offense responsible for giving up game winning drives by AZ twice, GB and NY?

                If the offense takes advantage of their opportunities late in those games, it doesn’t come down to needing the defense to make a stop to preserve the win or send it to OT. That has happened in pretty much every loss they’ve suffered without JG.

              4. “If the offense takes advantage of their opportunities late in those games, it doesn’t come down to needing the defense to make a stop”

                Take advantage? The average points scored in an NFL game in the 4th quarter this year is 8 points. The Saints this year are at 11.1. That’s 2 possession scores in an average of
                18 plays run by an offense in the 4th quarter.
                To ask an offense to capitalize on an efficiency scoring rate that high is asking a lot. That’s why relying on your defense to hold a lead is more realistic.

                Last night perfect example. You would never know by the score but the Rams and Chiefs defense actually held their own in scoring and eventually the Rams defense held when needed.
                Point is the defense is a more realistic option in ending a game then relying on an offense to score late in games with limited possessions and most times field position.

              5. It’s not just scoring prime. It’s burning clock, giving the defense a rest, setting them up in a good situation with field position. I’m not absolving the defense of blame, but the losses involve a lot more than the D gassing leads.

              6. Yes field position, clock management play huge roles in setting up the defense but not too many times as an offense you can control those factors. Yes you’d like to execute all those factors but when you cant, its up to the defense to hold. You know, the bend don’t break concept?

                I put at least 4 loses on the Niners defense this year because in each of those games there was a combination of blown coverages, missed assignments, wrong personnel on the field and mismatch coverages. Those all fall on Saleh as a coordinator. He looks incompetent.
                Add the fact I don’t see any players individually improving, its time to make a change.

    1. 4-6 or 6-4. The 49ers would have probably beaten the Cardinals twice, but I am not sure if they would have beaten the Chargers and Giants.

      1. Mid,

        Of course anything can happen and I’m just speculating on something that can’t be proven, but the basis for my opinion was simply the fact they lost some very close games that featured poor to horrific play from Beathard. Mullens was better, but he too left some plays on the field against the Giants and threw a bad pick deep in his own zone. If Garoppolo is in there I think it swings things enough to overcome the 2 point swing with the Chargers and the 4 points against the Giants. We also should keep in mind that Garoppolo was still relatively new to the system overall and would have gained comfort as the weeks went on.

        1. Yea, you’d like to believe Jimmy would have gotten more acclimated as the season progressed but seeing is believing.👀 Am I right?

  24. Draft or no draft….there should be no excuse for not signing a big time pass rushing DE in FA ……..

    Lawrence, Clowney or Ford

    1. Those guys will not hit the open market. Quality pass rushers at the very least get franchise tagged. Those 3 won’t make it to free agency.

      1. About the only one of those guys who could hit the market is Ford. The Chiefs will have the cap space to retain him, but there are players that they will most likely want to extend. Their secondary is also in need of an overhaul.

    2. Draft or no draft….there should be no excuse for not signing a big time pass rushing DE in FA.

      There will be an excuse. None of the candidates you mentioned will want to come to a team that’s as fundamentally incompetent as Grant Cohn has (repeatedly) alleged.

  25. Bosa comes with one other cost:
    He’ll hold out, a la his brother, and not be in until mid-season, providing little help his rookie year.
    Trade back scenarios are fine, we’ll be getting several thousand more from the Village Idiot, but the Niners got stuck at #1 when they took AS, and they’ll have to see what offers emerge. Strategizing moving back 3-5 spots without offers is just tilting at windmills.

    1. Brotha, the Chargers organization has had a bad reputation for their business dealings, rightly or wrongly. Remember when Eli refused to play for them? I believe at issue for the Chargers regarding Joey was what percent of his signing bonus he would get in 2016. He wanted it all now. The Chargers offered him more money in the calendar year than the Rams gave the #1 overall pick, Jared Goff and he said it wasn’t enough. Not sure why Joey at pick #3 thought he deserved more than the #1 pick.

      Schiano said Nick was one of the best players he’s ever coached, and if he goes #1; I don’t foresee the same problem occurring with the 49ers organization, regardless whether or not he has CAA as his representatives. Solomon Thomas was represented by the same firm, so the 49ers are quite familiar with how they operate….

      1. Ok take it down a notch…..no need to slob on the bosa stick…..now it’s the chargers fault for language or trying to structure a rookie contract which almost all other rookies abide by?…….

        Calm down bro….you are not earning any stripes trying to convince us about Bosa…

        Not sure why Joey at pick #3 thought he deserved more than the #1 pick.

        It’s not the first time you were not sure about something easy as right and wrong…..a trumppert aren’t you….

    2. Hard to believe we’ve reached Cleveland status where we’re talking about the #1 pick being a lock with 6 games to go. I was just kidding when I posted:
      Walsh:——————Shannahan:
      Year 1 2-14 —————— 6-10
      Year 2 6-10 ——————- 2-14

      History doesn’t repeat but sometimes it flip flops, I guess.

  26. This team is a three year “best athlete available” total rebuild.

    Name one player on this team that starts for the Rams, Saints or Chiefs?

    You’ve got a pretty good TE, a pretty good d lineman in Buckner, a middle of the road RB in Breida, and a gimpy, middle of the road quarterback.

    They have no talent.

    It’s going to take years of draft day home runs.

  27. ?You’ve got a pretty good TE, a pretty good d lineman in Buckner, a middle of the road RB in Breida, and a gimpy, middle of the road quarterback.”

    Easy there, it’s not that bad. Our TE is more than “pretty good”. Buckner is very good and may be elite with a speed rush next to him, and I simply don’t get your references to RB and QB.

    There are other pieces, too. Warner, McGlinch, ….

    I know you’re trying to keep it real, but that’s quite a negative and incomplete spin.

      1. Kittle, Garoppolo, Gould, Bredia, Staley, McGlinchey, Buckner, Goodwin, Warner, Sherman… Oh, I’m sorry. You said name one player. My bad.

        1. “With that said, Quinned would be the player that some thought Thomas would be. There are far worse picks for them at #1…like Bosa.”

          Yes, what some thought Thomas would be. Assuming both prospects hit their ceilings…

          Williams
          Good against the run as an End in base.
          Interior pass rush improves.

          Bosa
          Good against the run as an End in base.
          Would improve our Edge rushing.
          Interior D-lineman benefit from outside pressure.

        2. What is it about Bosa’s game that gives you cause for concern? Not that it’s a big deal because quite honestly, I do not believe we will have the 1st pick when it’s all said and done….

  28. any of the first three is fine, fills a big need. I agree with this order
    Nick Bosa, DE, Ohio State
    Quinnen Williams, DT, Alabama
    Ed Oliver, DT, Houston

    Trading down may be smarter, as a later top ten player (say around pick 8 or 9) that fills needs like
    Josh Allen, OLB/DE, Kentucky
    Greedy Williams, CB, LSU (think a younger faster Richard Sherman; Goodbye #23!)

    And pick up a extra 2nd, maybe a 4th and likely a 1st next year. If you go for Williams you can probably trade Witherspoon for an extra pick in round 4 or 5.

  29. Looking at the present draft order, the Niners have the first pick. They could parlay that into a future first and more second and third round picks.
    .
    Looking at the trade value chart, the Niners could trade the number one pick back with the Giants, who presently stand at 5. They have a crying need for a new, younger QB. The Niners, by moving back 4 spots, could garner the 5th overall pick, a 2020 first round pick, and a second round pick.
    .
    With the number 5 pick, they could trade back again. Washington, Miami and Jax, all have big QB needs. Buffalo, Tampa Bay and Denver have QB issues. Even Cincy, Chargers, Steelers and Pats have aging QBs. Niners could trade back 5 spots, and garner the 10th pick, a third round pick, and a 2020 second round pick.
    .
    All in all, the Niners, by moving back 9 spots, could garner an additional second and third round pick, along with a 2020, first and second round pick. That way, the Niners could have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds, and 4 picks in the first 2 rounds of the 2020 draft. Those extra picks will go a long way in filling needs and creating depth.
    .
    They say that it is a QB weak class, but watching the highlights, there are several good QBs eligible for the draft, and at least 8 teams who have QB needs. The QB position, being so critical for success, will generate a lot of interest, and QBs will typically move up in the rankings.
    .
    The Niners are rebuilding, but also, this season has proved , with all the injuries, that they need solid depth.

  30. High draft picks are meaningless to this franchise. Just can’t draft period. They had #2 pick last year and despite desperately needing a franchise QB they pass on one to move back one spot and take a very bland unimpactful DE. Passing on Trubisky had the side effect of having to trade for Garrops who they ended up paying $130M. A little steep for a QB who has a whopping 10 starts in 5 years and even manages to get seriously injured in 2 of those starts meaning he only has played 8 entire games in his career. The regime follows that up with a run blocking OT at the #9 pick this year. I see two good picks, kittle and Warner, in two years. Roughly the same rate as previous regime. I used to want them to lose to get higher draft picks but that never really helped. Not worth the effort anymore. These guys no doubt woulda drafted Ryan Leaf over Payton Manning…

  31. Haven’t had time to watch much college ball this year so I’m not going to act like I’m current on potential picks @ #1 but they need to find a game wrecker like Aaron Donald… Someone that can crush pockets and QBs. Give Buck some help already…. Thomas and Armstead certainly aren’t getting it done although I wouldn’t be surprised if they improve once Saleh is fired… Replacing him is our biggest need which could affect direction on that #1 pick. The guy has mostly failed at coaching this defense and struggles at teaching these young guys simple fundamentals. Lack of overall discipline is almost embarrassing and even John Lynch is starting to admit players need to be put in better positions to succeed on that side of the ball…..

    1. Saleh is suspect, that I get. I wonder about the abilities of position coaches and coaching assistants/quality control types who work on the defensive side of the game. Saleh is the big juicy target. Are others on the defensive coaching staff deserving of scrutiny too? I’d think yes.

      1. The problem is Saleh doesn’t have the experience or knowledge to evaluate those working for him. The blind leading the blind. A new experienced DC would bring in most or all of his staff based on previous experience. That alone is worth the change. They’re losing the fans. Jed has to do something. Remember, he’s the one whose accountable. Well in theory anyway.

        1. I’m afraid we’re in a catch 22 defensively. There’s no one available that knows the scheme, and changing the scheme sets us back further….

          1. Kris Richard knows the scheme and would be an immediate upgrade. Heck, the Cowboys have the 3rd ranked D when it comes to points scored and he’ll take another DC opportunity I’m sure if Shanahan wants to offer it.

            1. Richard may not have the formal title of DC, but for all intents and purposes; he is and is there to replace Marinelli, who will be retiring soon….

          2. You’re right about changing the scheme setting us back further. The question is how much further down the toilet do you want to go before suffering your setback. Remember the farther behind your are the farther you are set back when it comes. We screwed up. OK, get over it and cut our losses. A journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step. We’re still walking backwards. Draft now for a future that starts next year or start drafting later for a future that starts way later.

            1. I doubt they flush Robert before they upgrade the pass rush, and the FS position. If the defense is still floundering next year, then they’ll have no choice; tossed Saleh(ed)….

      2. I would think absolutely Hafley has to be. I see our corners and safeties allowing receivers to get behind them, and then in coverage, not turning to look for the ball as the receiver slows down and begin to raise their hands. Inexcusable!

        1. I brought all these points in an earlier thread. The position coach I would think most needs scrutiny is Hafley who was brought in under Kelly, I believe. The secondary has been very suspect and I have to believe that he should be the first to be on the possible hot seat.

          Rocket made the point that coaches being fired would set the team back, but I too wonder how much will it set the team back to get a new position coach and/or is it advisable to do it earlier or wait till later.

          Since many of the position coaches are young and inexperienced they are essentially learning on the job. Can we afford to wait this long?

          1. The only way a new coordinator sets anything back is if it’s a drastic change in scheme, going from 4-3 to 3-4 for instance.

            Changing out position coaches wouldn’t be cause for concern in this regard.

            1. My take too. Though I don’t have data on that. I should think some of the coaches ought to be brushing up their resumes.

            2. They easily have the personnel to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 as most times this year they’ve played a 4-3. It would not be drastic whatsoever.

            3. I would disagree with the popular argument and suggest that a change in sheme GENERALLY HAS THE POTENTIAL TO set things back. But not always. Harbaugh brought in an entirely new offense and the program was set forward, so to speak. Also, I could be wrong but I seem to recall that Fangio first introduced the 3-4 upon his arrival. One can use statistics to attempt to make Saleh’s defense look tolerable. My own eyes keep telling me that he is indefensible as a DC, if only because he cannot properly supervise his position coaches. He goes, they get better is what I believe. I don’t believe that a change of scheme ALWAYS sets a team back and particularly in this case because they are pretty much as bad as you can get at pass defense and only appear to be good at rushing defense because their DBs are either primarily run stoppers or are paying too much attention to the run. Not the first time I’ve been out on a limb.

              1. Also, this defense has zero identity. What do they do well, in fact, what are they trying to do? They don’t tackle well, they don’t pressure the QB well, they don’t turnover anyone over and they have zero ball hawks. So any type of change might actually give them an identity to build upon because currently this defense truly is vanilla.

              2. What scheme?
                It still comes down to football….btw the lines…
                An experienced DC will figure it out….

                We need a DC that can make good adjustments during and finshing games…….Saleh is actually better in the 2nd half but 4th quarters are where he has issues….

                If no experienced DC then let them roll the dice on Saleh for one more year…….

              3. « Harbaugh brought in an entirely new offense »

                Not really. The offense was already built with bruising o linemen, fullback, etc.

                « I could be wrong but I seem to recall that Fangio first introduced the 3-4 upon his arrival »

                You’re wrong. Harbaugh and Fangio inherited a defense and personnel that had been built to play the 3-4 since the arrival of Mike Nolan.

              4. Jack- You are again playing fast and loose with facts. This issue is changing from a 3-4 to a 4-3 or vice versa. The 49ers began the change to a 3-4 defense in 2005 when Mike Nolan took over, primarily a 2 gap 3-4 base. The defense never really took and yearly the team would waiver between a 3-4, 4-3, and Big Nickel as the base defense, until Singletary took over full time in 2008 and fully committed to a 1 gap 3-4 front. Singletary took over after the bye when the 49ers were 2-5. I am technically wrong that Fangio changed it, but I think it’s fair to say that the transition took place under another Head Coach midseason and was obviously improved when Fangio took over. To summarize, the 49ers changed from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and ran it for 4 years. They then changed to the 4-3 but at midseason changed back to a 3-4, which was taken by Fangio and led to a trip to the NFC Chapionship game. My point was that it is not always a major setback and may lead to improved conditions. I don’t think that is changed by the fine print.

          2. EC,

            I wasn’t clear in my point that you referenced. I was referring to a change at DC more than position Coaches. I can see the possibility of new position Coaches, I just don’t want to see a change in the system they run.

            1. Rocket, I imagine that you meant OC, DC,STC and HC. I just took the opportunity to start a discussion regarding other coaches. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

              1. No problem, I worded the original point poorly so I just wanted to clear up any discrepancies that might exist.

              2. No worries Rocket. Like I stated, I imagined you weren’t speaking of minor coaches.

                I agree that the major ones could have an effect.

                I think that the unit coaches are the ones you need to account for. I would expect DB coach, LB, Conditioning at least to have some heat on them for the state of their unit. I would also expect the Special teams coach to have a bit as well.

    2. Every DC has to start somewhere and while I agree that Saleh needs to get better at his job, he also needs the horses to run his system correctly. Everyone agrees this team is lacking severely at Edge, CB and FS and yet that gets pushed to the side in the criticism of Saleh. You can’t play good defense without a pass rush. It is impossible, and that is what Saleh is dealing with right now. I can’t see them firing him when they know he’s working with an arm tied behind his back. Position Coaches are another story and maybe they change a couple, but the scheme is not the problem imo; it’s the lack of options at his disposal.

  32. Illuminate this confused fan. Both the Raiders and the Niners currently hold 2-8 records. The Niners beat the Raiders, doesn’t that give the Raiders the tiebreaker for #32 and 1st pick in the draft?

    Nevermind. a little googling reveals order determined by strength of schedule not head to head match ups, which seems strange. After all, if playoff positioning tiebreakers are determined by head to head, why not draft order?

  33. Razor,

    I’m still watching film on the edge prospects but currently I would lean to Josh Allen over Jachai Polite.
    I love his get off, length and hands.

    I prefer Allen for the following reasons.
    – He has consistency gotten pressure over his career and is not the 1 year wonder Polite is. (ie safer) and this year has more sacks and TfL’s in spite of being the only guy opponents have to account for.
    – He is bigger and longer (est 6’5″ 260)
    – He Has been shown to be solid in coverage when asked to do so.
    – Due to his attributes in the worst case scenario he can play SAM

    Note* I still have to watch more film before making a final assessment and need to watch Ferell and Burns and a few others as well.

    1. His coach had Clowney under his tutelage if I’m not mistaken, and as of 10/1/2018 according to PFF, he has the top pass-rush productivity in the nation at 21.6, notching six sacks, seven QB hits and 16 hurries on only 111 rushes. His win percentage of 30.6% is also best among the nation’s edge defenders and he’s been strong against the run with an 82.8 grade. I like him a lot, so I understand why you would prefer him over Polite. According to Mack Daddy, Allen is further along than he was in college, so that’s a great endorsement….

      1. Interesting stats Razor. Do you have a list of the top 5 or 10 and their win percentages available?

        I would be curious to see who the leaders are.

        1. Shoup, I found that on PFF but unfortunately I do not have a subscription. When I get some time, I will attempt to research more information to include your curiosity….

    2. « I’m still watching film on the edge prospects »

      Where are you guys finding college game film? Or do you mean you’re going through and watching YouTube highlights?

      1. Jack,

        No, I hate highlights.
        Occasionally you can find one that shows a trait, but you never know if it’s consistently demonstrated or not based on them.

        I’m not sure if it’s different because I am in europe but I can find quite a few full games on youtube here.
        Additionally, there are some guys that showcase some film breakdown clips… nfl draft geek film room or Voch Lombardi but they will show more tape later on as we get closer to the draft. However, I prefer watching them after watching tape on my own and getting a general feeling on if I like them or not.

        Note* one of the reasons why I stated I was still watching film on them was because more tape ( especially coaches tape )will become available later.

      2. Hammer, you can view entire games on youtube, not just the highlight reels. There’s plenty tape out there for the hack’s like me if you have the time. As for the all 22 perspective, no I do not have access to those. Wish I did….

    3. Shoup,

      I agree with you on Allen. He is a very versatile player much like Edmunds was last year, but a much better pass rusher. He’d be a guy I’d be looking at if they do trade down.

    4. Shoup, Polite is still quite raw as an edge player – he played DT his first two seasons at Florida. He dropped weight this offseason and is now at his best position where he can really take advantage of his superior athleticism. He was on a tear to start the season but has been a bit quieter (though still impactful) the last month as teams started to pay him more attention.

      He needs to work on technique and pass rush moves, but even without great technique or multiple moves he is already a dangerous pass rush threat due to his get off and athleticism. He has loads of upside. But as you say, there are safer picks than him. I would suggest Ferrell, Allen and Sweat are all safer picks. Just don’t have the same upside.

  34. Yes it’s illogical in a sense. Lowest strength of schedule is the tie breaker for tied teams at the top (or bottom).

    Speaking of that, my prediction goes to Jets. Still play Pats twice, along with Texans and Packers, and they have a coaching mess and a dwindling situation with morale. Not to mention Darnold is having a hard time. Early prediction for order: Jets, Raiders, Niners, Bills, Giants.

  35. Niners have to play TB, Broncos and a Rams team who will be sitting their starters. Hopefully, Mullens can win a couple of those. Do not think they will beat the Seahawks who are striving for the playoffs, or the Bears with Mack.
    .
    Looking at who they play the rest of the schedule, Raiders have to play the Ravens, Steelers, Broncos and the Chiefs twice. The only game they have a decent chance to win are the Bengals. Giants also have a tough schedule.
    .
    The final draft order may be- Raiders, Jets, Giants, Niners, Bills. I think Gruden is in full tank mode for Bosa, the pass rusher he covets.

  36. 49ers RB Alfred Morris has been the least efficient running back in the NFL this season, according to Football Outsiders.

    Joe Williams is definately in the shanahan’s red book……

    Was JW that bad?

    1. Yes, he was lazy and not a good teammate.
      There is no way in hell I would have drafted a player who noted for being Lazy and was caught stealing from a teammate.

  37. Nick Bosa (has a great inside countermove ,and his bullrush is also great),Clelin Ferrell(Who has a great go-to move that is a chop-rip that is executed with precise timing to counter the offensive tackles punch and his spinmove is also great and also a decent Swimrush),Greedy Williams(Has the athleticism,size can mirror a WR and has the vertical speed) those 3 guys would make our team instantly better.

  38. We should be 😃 💃🤘…..No way they fck up getting a true pass rusher…….too many good options….

    NW: Well that’s the best possible news for San Francisco. Let’s start with that strong EDGE class. We’ve talked about Nick Bosa and Clelin Ferrell on Niners Wire. Are those the only guys you see worth taking if the 49ers pick in the top three? Or are there other first-round talents who could rise into top-three or five consideration?

    DW: Those are the only two guys I see sticking around in that range. However, if the 49ers ended up trading back into the latter part of the top 10-15 picks, there are a handful of names that could make sense in that range: Kentucky’s Josh Allen, Florida’s Jachai Polite, Florida State’s Brian Burns and Mississippi State’s Montez Sweat.

    1. One,
      I wouldn’t say they are garenteed to get a good pass rusher. Harold was thought to be a very good pass rusher coming out but never materialized. Several of these pass rushers will not produce at the level expected and provide only around 5 to 7 sacks a season on average.

  39. OT, but great news, Paradise is getting rain. Hopefully, this will end the fire danger.
    .
    Also, kudos to Aaron Rodgers, who has given a million dollars to the Camp Fire victims.

    1. « great news, Paradise is getting rain. Hopefully, this will end the fire danger. »

      Not really great news. The burnt ground is ripe for mudslides.

          1. First thing they want is to end the fire danger. I did not mention the threat of mud slides in my first post.
            .
            If you think the fire fighters are cursing the rain, worrying about mudslides, you are delusional.
            .
            So far, it has been light rain. I did not mention any forecast. The satellite pictures show a band of rain coming, but it is green, not red. The capacity of soil to absorb rainfall is good, especially after being dry for so long.
            .
            First, put out the fires, then worry about mud slides.

      1. Good for Aaron Rodgers and my prayers go out to the victims who are about to experience what may be a rough situation with mudslides. It’s not the biggest of storms but it doesn’t take much when there is zero ground cover.

      2. To be fair that’s going to be a danger if it comes now or later better to have it now to help stop the spread of the fire.
        It is also needed across the entire north state and its for the land to repair itself.

        1. TY, Shoup.
          .
          Believe it or not, the fire fighters are glad, and are pulling back, letting the rain douse the fires, while they now can concentrate on erosion control and searching for victims.

      1. A few donated their game worn jerseys from the Giants game for auction. Quite the gesture considering they don’t pay for them.

        1. Yeah, was thinking too of those players with family roots in the greater Nor Cal/Central Cal region like Goff. Gotta be others.

  40. Lynch should trade down…he only has 5 total picks to work with. Trading down from potentially the top spot could garner arguably 3 high picks. He can do a lot more with 8 picks than 5…and there are plenty of holes to fill, especially after they cut loose players they don’t intend to keep (Ward, just to name one).

  41. Of course I recognize that the blog is for us uninformed to bellyache and moan about what we DON’T have and how to fix that…We believe in our coaches (HA) and trust that they can coach poor into good… I think that we DO have some unused talent in Harris (S) and Moore (CB) to go with Ahkellah and Sherman for our D backfield….

    1. I’m eager to see what we have when OTAs begin after the draft–new talent via the draft, UDFAs, players returning from IR, maybe two or three FA additions, and roster players entering their second and third year. Not that far away.

      1. Fangio’s defense, much like the current 49ers defense, is an extremely simple scheme and does a good job of forcing teams to work their way down the field.

        Compare his current personnel to that in SF and the two aren’t even close.

            1. The Bears run one of the most simplest defences in the league. Rush 4 and play coverage with the rest.

              All you need is guys that can track the ball, can run and get to the QB. Pretty easy concept.
              The only thing is getting there with 4 guys, to the QB becomes so dependent.

              The difference is Fangio is a great teacher. Donnatel has been in this system and in this scheme forever. So he would be a great guy to hire.

              1. « The Bears run one of the most simplest defences in the….All you need is guys that can track the ball, can run and get to the QB. Pretty easy concept. »

                Yeah it’s an extremely easy concept. Too bad the personnel to do that doesn’t exist in SF, which by the way, employs a very similar and simple concept.

              2. The Niners play a lot a cover 3 and the hand off from the corner to the safety becomes very challenging if guys are not on the same page or if they can’t track the ball.

                As we’ve seen, Saleh hasn’t been able to teach it properly.

                I personally think that the Bears scheme that they run is much more suited to the personnel that we have.
                Witherspoon and Sherman can lock down the outside because it’s just a simple concept of stay with your guy. Then the safeties can either provide help like in a cover 2 or keep everything in front of them.

                You add 2 edge rushers and I think a combination of Buckner, Blair, Thomas, and Armstead could get there.

              3. Prime,

                Pretty much every zone and combination coverage in any defensive system involves DB’s having to communicate and work in tandem. In man, yes a DB stays with whoever he’s designated to cover, but even then there are situations when they have to switch – pick formations, pre snap coverage changes etc. – so DB’s are always having to know what the others are doing. This defense really isn’t that complicated in fact it’s one of the easiest because it’s as much about hustle and pursuit as it is about formation.

              4. I’ve played in cover 3 and it’s not that easy. Especially when there isn’t much of a pass rush or your safety isn’t very good moving laterally.

                My point is the scheme they’re running right now in San Francisco seems to have confused the players more than anything.
                So a scheme like the one the Chicago Bears are running seems it would be better suited to us based on personnel and the simplicity of it.
                Saleh hasn’t been able to obviously dumb it down or teach it better as it looks like the players are thinking instead of just playing.
                That’s why an experienced guy like Ed Donatell would be a perfect hire.

        1. Hammer, I might argue that the biggest difference in the Bears secondary versus the 49ers is Eddie Donatell rather than talent, but of course they’re helped out by the Bears defensive front too….

          1. The Bears have 2 starting corners that were drafted in the top 19. Donatell is an excellent coach who had some pretty good talent to work with. Throw in a couple safeties they’ve drafted since he’s been there to go with Hicks and Mack off the edge.

            Yeah, SF doesn’t have anywhere close to that talent on D.

      1. Yep.

        I am with Jack re: replacing Saleh – I don’t think he is as big a problem as fans want to make out. I don’t think any DC would have made this D good this season. But he’s done a decent job with what he has for the most part. I would like to see this D with a decent pass rush and a secondary that doesn’t blow so many assignments.

        1. Saleh will get his pass rushers in 2019. The Cowboys may have the inside track to Earl Thomas, but I’d love to woo him to the Bay where he can give Pete the finger two times a year….

            1. Why give a 30+ year old safety who’s suffered 2 broken legs over $10 mil. That’s bad business. Seattle was smart with how they played that.

              Also not sure if Mathieu has the range to play the single high safety.

              1. Wait, didn’t they say the same thing about Dick Charmin? Thomas should be fully healed, and would give Saleh his single high centerpiece he so desperately needs. He should be priority 1a and Dee Ford 1b….

              2. Jack Hammer

                excellent points…Earl Thomas was the premier S for many years…too many band aids now and long in the tooth…Also Jack, I seriously agree that Saleh is not the problem…the old story of “Can’t make a chicken sandwich out of…” He hasn’t missed a tackle or blown a coverage all season that I know of…

        2. 29 out of 32 coordinators would make a coverage adjustment and force opposing teams to target someone other than Witherspoon at crucial times in the game. Saleh isn’t good enough. He’s a scheme coach.

      2. The biggest issue for this defense is a consistent pass rush.

        We’ve seen flashes of it at times, stretches in GB come to mind, but they need a guy or two that when the game is on the line and you know the other team has to pass can cause havoc.

        1. I agree that is a big issue, but there have been 3-4 games that could have been won if the defense finished the job. That said, the same is true about the offense.

          1. « I agree that is a big issue, but there have been 3-4 games that could have been won if the defense finished the job. »

            No kidding. If they had the personnel to make pass rush not be an issue maybe they could have finished the job. Was pretty much the point.

    1. Fire the lot of them now. Anything else is just delaying the inevitable.

      We have a color commentator for a general manager, an offensive coordinator for a head coach and a position coach as a defensive coordinator. Nobody in this organization is qualified for their job.

      1. “an offensive coordinator for a head coach”

        Let’s see how the team responds after getting called out by KS. This team has never looked like a team that quits. We’ve only had a handful of blowout losses. KS as a HC has gotten his team ready to play every week. If anything, the play calling by KS the OC has been questionable.

        Agree on Lynch and Saleh.

      2. Sorry to disagree, but we have seen what the coaching merry go round produces. We should look for stability and continuity. Saleh is young, but he is mainly hampered from a lack of player talent.
        .
        JL has turned around the organization. He is light years better than Baalke. Yes, he could improve, but so can each one of us, too. He is building up from bottom, brick by brick. Some have commented that the Niners could have been 6-4 or even 7-3, if JM and JG did not become injured.
        .
        Still think KS should hire an OC, but his offense has the 4th best rushing offense in the league. Jed hired them with 6 year contracts, because he knew that this rebuild will take time. If they go 2-14 next season, we may be questioning their leadership, but I will wait until next season before calling for JL,KS and RS’s heads.
        .
        However, I agree with Razor and others, Hafley may be the sacrificial lamb.

      3. Fire the lot of them now. Anything else is just delaying the inevitable.
        We have a color commentator for a general manager, an offensive coordinator for a head coach and a position coach as a defensive coordinator. Nobody in this organization is qualified for their job.

        Great idea. Firing Coaches has worked so well for this team during the Yorks run of ownership hasn’t it?

        1. You could take away Firing coaches and insert anything (Building a new Stadium, hiring former coach’s son, hiring coaches). The only exception to this is Harbaugh!

          Point being, just about everything the Yorks touch turns poison. They are the anti midas. Our own pyrite.

            1. Perhaps Grant should get his resume in front of Jed and Denise, and do some politicking with key NFL luminaries. Seriously.

          1. The real question is; how much influence does Lil Shan have on the draft. So far the biggest problem on the team is the lack of talent stemming from piss poor draft picks. The problem started with Baalke but hasn’t improved with Lynch.

              1. Because coaches other than Shannahan. Very good OC but poor supporting cast. Too early to call HC bust. Fix supporting cast and move forward. Keep status quo and argue about drafts forever. Someone has to step up….Lynch, Jed, Uncle Eddie, or????

            1. “The real question is; how much influence does Lil Shan have on the draft.”

              I think Thomas was more of a Lynch pick. Wllliams and CJ appear to be KS picks, but Lynch should have said no to Williams, and not yet to CJ.

              Lynch on Williams.

              https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/5/1/15494590/joe-williams-49ers-draft-board-2017-nfl-draft-john-lynch

              “Screw it,” he said to himself Saturday morning. “I’m going to try to jump up and get this guy.”

              “Screw it”

              Yeah, screw it. let’s take a quitter. Screw it, let’s take Solomon ‘freakin’ Thomas instead of Lattimore or Adams, or trading down again. Screw it! The screwer screwed himself.

              We have Adam Peters in the building.
              Peters>>>Lynch
              Maybe Nick Caserio will want the job now that we have Garoppolo.

      4. Didn’t you say you were done with this team? Why are you still here. I’m sure Chris Ballard would love for you to come come hold his jock…. “Not qualified”? These men just tore down an epic failure and are doing their best to return to greatness. You don’t do that in the NFL in one year. Not with a complete rebuild. If you think so you are Alice in wonderland… Take a hike..

      5. “Fire the lot of them now. Anything else is just delaying the inevitable.”

        Yep. Everyone can see the writing on the wall. Shanahan has not improved his game management or situational offense since he got here. He’s a system coach. So is Saleh. And Lynch is not a GM.

        1. While I have been very critical of KS, I do not think he should be fired.
          .
          The first things you should ask are – Who would be better? Are they available? Would they coach for Jed after he fires his 4th coach in 5 years? Could the new coach attract decent coordinators and position coaches?
          .
          There is a reason why many coaches are available. They were usually fired from their last job. JH took a step up from the college ranks, and look how Jed treated him.
          .
          You need to find adequate replacements before thinking about firing the present GM and HC. Otherwise, Jed will be hopping on the merry go round, hat in hand, and getting humiliated again.

          1. I would hire Scot McCloughan and Jeff Brohm from Purdue. Lynch can keep his position as the mouthpiece who makes very few decisions, I guess.

              1. Why do you say he has to run a 4-3? Base defense isn’t the primary concern in today’s NFL. Plus, Solomon Thomas could play Sam linebacker in a 3-4.

              2. I think Thomas would be better in a two-point stance so he can read the play more easily. Donte Whitner said the same thing. Either way, you can find a base 3-4 linebacker to set the edge and drop into the flat and play zone coverage. Base defenders are a dime a dozen.

              3. Off the top of my head, options could be John Fox, Jack Del Rio, Todd Bowles if he gets fired or Vance Joseph if he gets fired.

              4. Jeff Brohm?
                What happened hiring Mora from UCLA? I remember you beating the drum for him too.
                What is it you love about these middling college coaches.

            1. Brohm’s first coaching job, he went 2-14.
              .
              He is now 5-6 at Purdue. Sounds mediocre, although he used to be a Niner. The former Niner who I liked was Anthony Lynn, but the Chargers hired him.
              .
              Re- hire a drunk? That sure sounds like it will end well.

              1. Brohm destroyed Ohio State this season. Harbaugh never has beaten them.

                McCloughan is one of the five best drafters on the planet.

              2. McCloughan is one of the five best drafters on the planet.

                When he’s sober, maybe but I would remind you he chose Smith over Rodgers.

              3. Ohio State is a shell of its former self. HC scandal. Bosa quitting. Watch Michigan destroy them.
                .
                SM is needed like the Niners need a hole in their head.

              4. Browns lost to the Raiders. They are still 3-6-1.
                .
                Seahawks never could draft an O line.
                .
                SM got lucky, but he is not worth the headache.

              5. Maybe the Niners should hire Wade Phillips as HC, and let KS be the OC. Keep JL, but see ya Saleh.
                .
                OK Scangarello for OC, since he likes JG, and JG likes him.

              6. I like it. But, get a different offensive coordinator who’s in charge of the fourth quarter and the red zone.

              7. Grant, I watched both games. Football is an emotional sport, and the Boilermakers were playing for Tyler in that game. What happened against MSU when that emotional fuel was spent?

              8. Brohm’s next task will be to take Louisville and make them competitive in the SEC. If he can do that, then he’ll have some Pro offers….

              9. Purdue beat up on Ohio State — Get’s Brohm a pass to be 9ers HC. Okay…

                Solomon Thomas has A stellar game late in his career at Stanford — Becomes a very high 9er draft pick…and Grant finds boatloads of fault with him.

                Grant… Do you see any value in withholding judgement until there’s a reasonable body of work available?

              10. Okay Grant….Rooney Rule is a sham. I do appreciate your honesty, and going on the record.

                That being said–good/bad/indifferent–the 9ers will need to comply. Any names you’d like to advance for interviews?

              11. How about Chris Peterson, the Huskies coach. He did well at Boise ST, and is a UCD grad.
                .
                He led Boise State to an undefeated season. He beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. He was bold and innovative, with a Hook and Lateral on 4th and 18, that went for 50 yards and tied the score with 7 seconds left. He called for a direct snap to a WR on 4th and 2, and they executed a Statue of Liberty misdirection play that went for 2 points to win the game in overtime.
                .
                Chris Peterson called a Statue of Liberty play to win in overtime? He is my kind of coach.

              12. Brohm and McCloughan would be underwhelming to say the least. A guy who hasn’t Coached in the NFL and another who can’t hold a job in the NFL. McCloughan is also being a little overrated. He’s got a good resume in some respects but he also oversaw a couple of terrible drafts here before they canned him for the alcoholism. He’s been a personnel guy for most of his career but the years he was actually the GM of a team and making the final call – 08-09 with the Niners and 15-16 with the Skins – the drafts were not all that good.

              13. They were not.

                Brohm’s lack of NFL coaching experience would be offset by his head-coaching experience, his experience in the league as a quarterback, plus having an experienced NFL defensive coordinator and experienced personnel man who could help.

                McCloughan’s draft record is as good as anybody’s. I’d keep Lynch as a figurehead and make McCloughan in charge of personnel.

            2. Hey Grant…

              Before you get too far along with your selection, who would you bring in for ‘Rooney Rule’ interviews–and possibly get a great candidate?

        2. You guys are being to harsh. In my opinion, nobody would have came in here and done any different, with the same circumstances. I believe someone else would have came in, spent a bunch of money and won 8 games. Making it seem like they would have done better. But you’re expecting flowers out of fecal matter, without the proper time to watch them grow.

          1. I beg to differ. This team is not a steaming pile. There is talent, and those last 5 games last season showed that they can win, with the QB overcoming the coaching.
            .
            Actually, I grow flowers the size of dinner plates when I use manure. ;p

            1. Seb….. Lol. I’m not saying this team is a pile of poop. I’m saying when they got here it was, was the whole reason for the complete rebuild. Now we have to watch the seeds they are planting. And see if they grow.

              1. Steel

                I am in agreement with both you and Seb as to the fact that when Lynch and Kyle took the reins, the niners were a few good players holding the team together…through some good drafting, and addition of some UDFAs, we are now a good team, that has been waylaid by significant injuries. No, not all of the drafts have been fruitful (ST)…unfortunate that it was Lynch’s FIRST pick…Right now, I (as a 49er Faithful) am celebrating Thanksgiving that we’re not as bad as we were, and just a few chuckholes away from becoming real good.

            2. You’re begging again. No, it’s not a sign of being polite. It’s like your little brother poking you in the arm–“hey, hey, hey, hey”…… Just get to the point.

              1. No, Cassie, the stench of Baalke permeates this site.
                .
                Did you know, Baalke was so hated, decent FAs avoided the Niners like the plague?

        3. “Yep”

          You’re on record now Grant. Your vendetta against Kyle Shanahan continues, and has once again led you to give a bad take.

  42. Fun stats for Wednesday…

    Vance McDonald is the 13th ranked TE with 33 receptions, 46.3 yards per game and 3 TDs.

      1. I was never a huge Vance fan but I thought he was adequate as a decent #2. Many on this blog ripped him mercilessly. Always like to see players (and coaches) who get BBQ’d on this blog go on to do okay to well.

          1. « 49ers won’t pay a number 2 more than minimum wage. Paraag’s algorithms are calling the shots. »

            Wrong.

            The 49ers are paying Garrett Celek more than the Steelers are paying McDonald.

            1. Jack – You’re wrong. Celek’s contract value is $10 Mil. McDonald’s contract value is $32.5 Mil. McDonalds is three times Celek’s.

    1. Join the 9ers as DC? Sebbie (and Grant) would have a fit. They’d been blaming Shanahan–as Falcons OC–for being 100% responsible for Atlanta’s loss in the SB. Now they could attack Quinn. We could use the drama for sure.

      Stripping all that hate and posturing aside, Quinn does have good DC and DL credentials.

  43. Bosa……or a 1st, two 2nd and a 3rd….+ another 1st and 3rd the year after….

    Hard to turn this deal down….

    The 2016 Rams were the last team to trade up for the first-overall pick. They gave up a first round pick, two second-round and third-round selections to the Tennessee Titians, along with first- and third-round picks the following year. In addition to the swap from No. 1 to 15, the Titans sent a fourth- and sixth-round pick back to the Rams. 

  44. I don’t think we get Greedy

    49ers certainly seem content on letting Moore and Witherspoon learn. They’ll probably address corner in the later rounds.

    But what we really need is a fs. Just look at how Eddie Jackson’s presence transformed that Bears secondary. I think Moore could be that player personally, but there’s no way to tell if we’re intent on keeping him at corner. If that’s the case trade back for some picks and take Deionte Thompson. Maybe we snag another first rounder and can secure Ferrell, Gary, or Sweat. Metcalf in the second pretty well covers the bases.

  45. Win a few more games and not draft number 1 or 2 overall. Its a terrible place to draft. I am looking at positions in this order specifically. Defensive End (Edge-PassRush), Outside Linebacker (Edge-PassRush), Cornerback (No corners with Richard and Akello out of the conversation which next could make this true), Cornerback (same reason as last pick), Running Back (Depth)
    Clelin Ferrell round 1 pick at Defensive End
    D’Andre Walker round 2 at Linebacker
    Montre Hartage round 3 at Corner
    Jamal Peters round 4 at Corner
    Wes Hills round 6 at Running Back
    Free Agent trades and signings will handle: Safety, Right Guard, Wide Receiver, Etc.

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