Look, I’m on the outside, but I can’t help but notice that Mark Sanchez just got a five-year contract extension from the Jets, $24 million guaranteed.
Alex Smith is a better quarterback than Sanchez. It would be embarrassing for Smith and his agent to accept a three-year deal with less than $20 million guaranteed. The best move for them is to find out if a team like the Seahawks or the Dolphins or the Browns would overpay in free agency before taking the Niners’ skimpy offer.
Does Smith owe it to the Niners to accept their skimpy offer? He’s made scores of millions already from the Yorks with only mediocre results. You could argue that Smith owes the Niners a discount for sticking with him, when all other franchises would have cut him after Year 3.
On the other hand, you could make the argument that the Niners owe Smith. Bad teams and worse coaches sabotaged the first half of his career, and yet he remained loyal to the franchise. He’s so loyal he led mini camps and caddied for his head coach in a golf tournament this past year, all without a contract.
Who owes who?
Another thing. With this stalemate, Smith is demonstrating surprising self-confidence. He’s not going back to the Niners with his tail between his legs. It’s as if he really believes he’s elite, and he wants to be paid what he believes is fair. Good for him.
Through these negotiations, Harbaugh is insinuating that Smith is no big deal without him, and that Harbaugh could win the Super Bowl with any bargain quarterback – Colin Kaepernick or Scott Tolzien or Josh Johnson.
Who’s confidence is more audacious – Smith’s or Harbaugh’s?
Lastly, a week ago most of you guys said Smith was coming back to the Niners one way or another. Your confidence in his return was around 99 percent. Where is it now?
My best guess is there’s about a 40 percent chance Smith comes back. The Niners won’t budge from their offer – it’s their philosophy to never overpay. Smith probably won’t budge, either. He wants Sanchez money. There are a lot of QB desperate teams in the league, and one might just give Smith his five-year deal. If one does, then the Niners would probably sign Josh Johnson, and play next season with a Super-Bowl-caliber defense and neophyte QB.
Your thoughts?
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Do us a favor, leave! The sooner we go to Kaepernick the better. Colin can handoff to Gore just as easily as Smith. Kap also can bring us more to table (downfield throwing and running) than Smith can….So if Alex wants to put a line in the sand – then C’Ya. In my opinion, 3 years is even too long. 2 years/$20m at most.
And if Colin isn’t ready? It isn’t as easy as you try to make it be David.
Sorry Dave …. just my 2¢ …. if I had my choice, I’d rather go with Smith over Kaep. I like Kaep, but he’s not ready.
you are right midwest! Grant and david are WAY off base here. Grant, Harbaugh would never insinuate that he could win a SB with just “another” QB. He is on record of saying that the QB position is the toughest and most challenging of all sports….David, I am neutral on Alex Smith but I can cast some objectivity, he played better thatn 80% of the starting QB’s in the league and he will improve. He was a #1 overall talent in 2005. The 49ers were not the only ones believing that back then…He will resign and he may not get what sanchez got but he will be back and he will be better.
All the “Haters” will always hate no matter what. What a bunch of losers. I hope Alex leaves and we end up with 2 unknown QB’s and finish 6 and 10 if we’re lucky. And they will just Hate another QB, until Joe plays again……
This here is a post that I’m talking about. An Alex Smith fan more than a fan of the 49ers. Hoping his so called “team goes 6-10 so his boy looks good.
You’re not a 49er fan. Get out.
@hallelujah
Papa Stan has been around a lot longer than you have.
If you left, nobody would care.
At the worse, Papa likes somebody. At best, you hate a person. Guess which one is the better fan? Guess who makes for a nicer blog environment?
Hallelujah is absolutely correct. What fan cheers for his team to lose because a mediocre player leaves the team?? A bad fan or a fan of the player before the team.
DS94, I don’t really care about my reputation on a blog and the fact that you do tells me a lot.
I don’t stand for alex smith fans faaking their 49er fandom. He would rather see alex succeed and prove all the haters wrong than for the 49ers to do well. Unacceptable.
@Hallelujah
You really don’t know who I am on this blog. I am somebody who does not care one bit about my reputation. But, I do care for how I conduct myself,. And for you to say “You’re not a 49er fan. Get out.” to somebody who has been here a lot longer than you for saying something that was not at all bad, I can tell you right now, this is not the place for you.
You are what is wrong with our fans.
Nice try Papa Stan, what a bunch of bull crap, you Smithers believe the reason why the niners were 13-3 was because of Smith, we won inspite of Smith. 29th best offense, worse red zone and 3rd down conversion last year, never pass for one 300 yard game in 7 years. Bye bye Alex
Way to wish the team bad luck in the name of smith. Your pathetic. You are now and forever on onelames level. I will now smash every piece of garbage that you type. Beat it raider boy!
How about the “fans” that want their team to fail because a player is on the team? All this garbage goes both ways.
Just because the Jets and Bills and other teams are stupid, doesn’t mean the 49ers should be. If Smith thinks he can get Mark Sanchez or Ryan Fitzpatrick money from another team, he should go for it. He’ll be in another new system, working with another new head coach and another new OC, new WRs and a new O Line. Good luck, Alex.
Meanwhile, Baalke needs to get Manning’s agent on the phone. Oh, right. It’s also Smith’s agent. Trent, let him know we’re interested in the HOFer.
Manning will not play in the NFC, period. Per his agent statement. Another hater…
why is he visiting the cards today then?
@grimey
When PM’s decision gets serious, he will look at the defenses he will face for 6 games (divisioal opponents), and the NFC West will be the toughest best defenses in the NFL.
Put another way, do you want to face JS/PW twice a year or those loser teams in the Dolphins division?
PM never had a division this good defensively to play against. PM would not have put up PM numbers if he played in a defensive division this strong.
And with PM’s injury situation, he would have to be stupid to come into the NFC West.
The more teams that at least appear to have a chance, the more pressure there will be on the real candidates on his short list.
Grant, JH and AS are on the outside. Paraag and TC are handling the details of the contract. It will get done. My guess is that one side will yield and that they will draft the contract in a way that the other party saves face – win/win. BTW, how long did MSanchez/agent and the NYJ’s negotiate his contract? It was just stated two days ago that PM was a target for the Jets. Hmm.
Which side do you guess will yield? Smith seems intent on hitting free agency.
This is exactly what I mean! Where do you come off stating – as if it was a fact – that Smith is intent on free agency? Are you privy to the negotiations? No. You are just trying to rile the readers.
The truth is you don’t know anything about what Smith’s position is. You are guessing, and your guesses are generally wrong!
No, I said he seems intent. Read the words.
…niners will give in……they don’t have a choice……
Grant, I don’t think AS is interested in FA. The 9ers need him and he needs the 9ers. It is business and each side will be smiling when the deal is done – the bad guys in this are Paraag and TC. They’ll come to a compromise and we’ll not know who really yielded because the contract will be drafted in a way to indicate a win/win. I’m sure there will be articles stating who we thought folded like a paper bag (yielded) but it will be all conjecture.
…..”The 9ers need him and he needs the 9ers”…… true the 9ers need him but he really doesn’t need the 9ers……
……After Payton, Smith and Flynn are the only two QB’s that can get starter $$…….
Oneniner, the 49ers don’t NEED Alex Smith, especially not at over $10m per year. They could use that $$ in other areas and CK will take over.
…if you really know this team or know the game you will understand that the chance of the niners making it to the playoffs again next yr is slim to none with a new QB……
Grant,
You say Alex is intent on hitting free agency. I don’t believe so and here’s some proof: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2012/03/alex-smith-not-worried-says-deal-with-49ers-will-get-done.html
Seems to me he is just showing that confidence some fans say that he’s been lacking.
Oneniner, I am pretty sure that CK can hand off to a running back just as good as Smith did this year and average less than 200 yards per game. This team is driven by the defense and special teams.
“…if you really know this team or know the game you will understand that the chance of the niners making it to the playoffs again next yr is slim to none with a new QB……”
Really? They went 13-3 with the 29th rated passing attack this year. Obviously, it can be done.
……..like i said you need to know the game to understand why the 9ers need him….
…you need not to not be an AS jock sniffer to realize why the 49ers don’t NEED him…
…”They went 13-3 with the 29th rated passing attack this year. Obviously, it can be done”…..if your passing attack is 1st rated in not turning the ball over……. because you have an experienced QB……
“with the 29th rated passing attack this year. ”
That was equally attributed to the lockout, WRs, play calling, and yes AS. But it seems you see it *only* on the QB.
Grant I guess I missed the interview where Smith said that, all I have seen so far is some media folks saying it is rumored that 49ers want this and Smith wants that. Sometimes I wonder if the media bloggers are the ones quoting each other just to get hits.
How in the hell do you know?????
C’mon Hofer, using the lockout as part of any excuse for the performance of the offense is weak. Every team had to deal with that, and it wasn’t like the players didn’t have their playbooks or miss much practice time. Remember how great Camp Alex was for getting them ready for training camp.
@Jack
Comments like that make me question if you were ever a coach.
Every expert said that teams with new HC’s and new systems were at an extreme disadvantage due to the lockout. They all pointed to the Niners as the one team who would be most effected.
Why can’t you give credit to AS for largely offsetting the lack of a TC with his own Camp Alex? Had he not done that the Niners likely start the season a lot less comfortable than they actually did.
JH giving AS the playbook and AS having Camp Alex were major events leading up to our historical season. Why can’t you admit that AS was largely responsible for it? JH has.
@oneniner
Turnovers determine the victor far better than any other category (except points obviously). QBR and yards mean squat. Yet fans think that those things are the keys to winning.
How often have you heard the players or coach say before the game that the team needs to throw for over 300 yards today to win?
How often do you hear the HC’s say that they have to protect the ball and get turnovers to win the game?
The answer is obvious. But haters won’t acknowledge or may not be smart enough to know that TO’s are the key to winning games. Not yards or QBR rating or passing rankings.
DS says, “Why can’t you give credit to AS for largely offsetting the lack of a TC with his own Camp Alex? Had he not done that the Niners likely start the season a lot less comfortable than they actually did.”
DS, Reading comprehension obviously isn’t something you excel at. In my post I even mentioned Camp Alex.
I also believe that Harbaugh’s experience in college helped us out because he was better prepared to install the systems in a very short amount of time. You have mentioned many times that you don’t follow college football so let me explain.
College coaches, unlike professional coaches, are limited in the amount of time they have with the players so they need to be able to break things down and teach tremendous amounts of information quickly.
The length of training camp this year was about the same as what they get in college, so our staff was able to take what they had done at Stanfordvand easily transition it here, while many veteran HC’s and teams were in uncharted waters.
No Jack.
I got an “A” in all my English and reading classes. As I was known for writing things that the teacher had not even thought up/read before after many years of teaching. In the real world, people are rewarded for such original thought, and not for spewing out the same thing everybody else is. As it turns out, there is more than one way to interpret a writing. I believe they are called “Book Clubs”.
I didn’t say you didn’t bring up Camp Alex, did I? I said you are not crediting him as much as you should have for the impact it had on the team/the coaches/everything.
The Niners succeeded last year for much the same reason I succeed in school. They thought of unconventional solutions to problems and bucked the trend in many things to get their great record.
That camp was pure genius. An average guy/QB does not run that camp. That took a lot of leadership. You managed to compliment and put down AS at the same time in your post.
And JM himself said it would take several years and many reps to get this thing going. We never saw that process in JM though because he sat behind a QB for a few years coming in at spurts. We never saw that process really mature from day 1 like we are from Alex Smith. At best, CK is benefiting from the same thing JM did. Learning an NFL system in the background. So, when he comes in, he will know more than AS did last year. Comparing the two…you better keep that in mind.
DS, Camp Alex was a thinking outside of the box? Really? Just like Brees doing the same thing in New Orleans, or the Raiders holding camp out in Georgia, or the other countless teams who did the same thing? If no one else had thought of it I would agree with you, but that wasn’t the case.
You are correct in that it took leadership to pull that off, and don’t forget that Justin Smith was also heavily involved with making those calls to get guys in there.
I never put Smith down in my post, I just disagreed with oneniner’s take that the 49ers NEED Alex Smith. They don’t need him if it means over paying him. Move on with the plan, and bring in the weopons they need for the offense.
@Jack
AS was not on the team. All those other guys you brought up were.
And, those other guys were not implementing a new offensive scheme. I don’t know if any team was. The Raiders had the same scheme as the year before with Hue Jackson. I don’t think there was another team with a new HC and new schemes last year. If I am wrong, how successful were they? And you don’t think that those teams could have benefited from TC? I do.
Also, the fact that the Niners had the record they had should not be discounted. How many of those other teams who had such camps were so successful? Maybe that means AS is better than average.
DS, what is your problem today? I already said that Camp Alex was a good thing, yet you keep harping on it. Show me one negative comment that I have made about Alex Smith over the last month.
Hofer,
Elite Alex is and has always been Average Alex. The philosophy of the Neners is to pay quality quality players good money. Elite Alex is not in that category.
You keep begging for that cOntract. You need someone to throw you a lifeline! Lol Bye bye Elite Alex. You are history Hofer and so is your idol. Good night now!!
No one here is saying Alex Smith is elite Jordan. I know you dislike Smith, but even the Smith faithful aren’t calling him elite. You just seem to think because they faithfully believe in him that they believe he is elite. Even an average of $9-10 mil means he is below top 10 QBs, and those QBs salaries start at around ~$12 mil per. If he gets a deal like Sanchez did, then the FO is wrong there. I trust this FO to do what is right for the organization. They will give what is fair.
Michael,
They have already given what is fair. Alex is not a top 10 QB. I don’t dislike him. I dislike his game. It’s business, it’s not personal. You guys called Jim a top 10 QB because of his QB rating. Theres a lot more that goes into it. Name 10 QBs that would’ve played better in the NFC championship game and you have your top 10 Michael.
He does not deserve 9-10 million. Not if nobody else will give it to him. If he deserved it, somebody else will be paying for his services next year. The saying goes, “only one team has to like you, not 32.
@Jordan I don’t think he is a top 10 QB right now either. His performance last year was middle, top 15 of the league right now. At his potential, he can be in the top 10, not top 5 though. That is why I commented on top 10 QB salaries at ~$12 mil per. I think he should get $7-8 per, but if he is given $10 mil per w/ low guaranteed and 3 yr deal, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. If he shows good improvement this year, $10 mil is a solid price for Smith. It doesn’t matter if he gets a contract with $10 mil average, it is whether or not the guaranteed allows the 49ers to release him if need be and if Smith is actually able to complete the length of the deal.
I loved this article, until the 40 percent chance thing. I think you enjoy making bombastic statements to get a reaction out of people. Even if you said 60% it would be a lot more realistic and still cause people to talk.
LMAO. Doesn’t really matter if it is 2% does it??! It’s business.
Hofer,
Please don’t tell me that you’re still waiting for that contract??? Poor Hofer. Can you imagine how long I’m going to hammer you when smith signs with the jags!!!!elite Alex is outta here!!
Well said!
I’m giving him a slightly better chance of leaving than staying. I’m betting he hits free agency and one team gives him the offer he’s looking for, and the Niners don’t match. We’ll see.
Oh lawdy oh lawdy oh lawdy, I hope you’re right. That would be the best news of the offseason.
40% chance? the guy has had an awful career so far because of HORRIBLE coaching and worse, a SEVERE lack of continuity. You think he’d leave the one GREAT opportunity he’s had in 7 YEARS for another year or two on his contract aka MONEY? Alex has received 38 million dollars and hasn’t spent it lavishly. He wants fair value and he will get it, but even if he didn’t, he would stay. What other choice would he have?
He will get a 4 year contract in the end with less guaranteed in that case, or a 5 year contract with “out” clauses. Either way, both sides are happy. 40% Grant, what are you talking about?
That could be Seattle. Wouldn’t that be an interesting situation for the next three years. I put the chance that he signs with the 49ers at 70% because the Jets contract is a lot less than it sounds like at first glance.
How sickening would it be if he lead the Seahawks to a Super Bowl while the Niners missed out?
could you imagine what the niners defense would do to Alex if he played for the hawks? He doesn’t want to see Justin and Aldon and co. twice a year.
I would love for him to get out of dodge. He has kept us in the cellars for 6 of his 7 years. No WRs develop with him at the helm either. Alex Smith is both a coach and WR killer. It’s too bad the guy is so damn likeable.
Interesting that you feel the odds are that he won’t return next year… As far as pundits go, I’d say you’re definitely in the minority.
We’ll all know soon enough. My money’s still on his return. I happen to think that he’s better than the casual fan suspects, and I think most NFL teams feel this way as well.
He’ll command, and get, typical NFL starter deal, with perhaps a moderate discount if he signs here.
The question for the 49ers is, being so close last year, do they take a step back, hurting their chances this year, just so they have options at QB? I guess that depends on how confident they feel about those other options. I know that no-one outside the organization has any real idea of how they feel about Kaep or Tolzien, or anyone else, for that matter.
Midwest,
That wouldn’t be sickening, that would be impossible. Lol
It wasn’t possible for him to lead the Niners to a victory over the Saints 23. So yeah it’s possible.
What team is going to offer Alex 10 mil a year for 4-5 years? Not happening. He’ll sign with the Niners…
40%??? Grant unless you have inside information your number makes no sense. The Webzone has an article that states Alex says a deal will get done. I know criticism can come from every corner on this blog, but Grant stop using your Fathers’ articles here. One gets the impression you don’t have enough material of your own. When you mark the link to read his article, I don’t even bother to go. If I wanted to enter the Cohn Zone I would.
40% is my opinion. I’m going to continue to give my opinions and link to my dad’s columns on the Niners.
Grant, I know it takes lots of time but you being interactive with us is fantastic. I know you will go onto bigger and better things but I hope you stick around for awhile.
Thanks, Andrew. I hope you stick around, too.
It’s been very suprising, I expected Alex to be a slam dunk resigning. Its going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
Frankly, I find your analyses to be mostly off the mark, Grant; not just in this circumstance but in general. Your positions do not seem to be accurate, most of the time.
I suspect the 49ers will sign Alex to a four year contract sometime Monday. I highly doubt they will let Alex go, because to do so would compromise their ability to get a top flight WR in free agency, and both Trent Baalke and Jim Harbaugh are VERY SMART football people; they wouldn’t sabotage their team when they are so close to another SB trophy.
Where in the world did you come up with 40% likelihood Alex signs??? That is just the kind of arbitrary rhetoric that I mean when I say your analyses are more often wrong than right.
Or maybe you are intentionally trying to rile your readers? If so, that is yellow journalism at its worst.
Do us a favor: give it a rest until the end of Monday, for all our sakes.
Longtime,
Please tell me how the Niners ability to sign a free agent hinges on Smith not getting signed. It was going to be tougher with his signed. Please explain your theory to me if you don’t mind?
IMO, Smith is a nice QB. Nice guy, nice stats, nice to have around. Is he THE answer? Probably not. Is he THE problem? ehhh, maybe. He is a little too anti Favre gunslinger type for me but he did win games last year and I don’t write the checks. Is he better than Sanchez? Yeah but so are 27 other starters in the league and probably quite a few backup QBs. That being said, I think he is a good QB to keep around but he isn’t irreplaceable. Get a QB that can put up one TD more per game and this team is 15-1 and goes to the Superbowl last year and probably wins the whole thing.
Well said. That was the best post of this thread.
….confidence in his return is still around 99 percent…….the Niners will budge from their offer –….. and paying him sanchez money is not overpaying him…..
……yes……it……is
No it’s not, hater!!!
Relax this is all conjecture. Don’t give yourself a stroke.
Papa Stan, you think alex deserves top 10 money? Hahahahahaha.
I know you’re hurt oneniner. You’re idol Elite Alex is outta here. He got too big for his own britches. Those pep talks went yo his head. Niners don’t cave son. You should know that. I told you your boy was done son. Good night now!!! Stop crying.
>>You’re idol Elite Alex is outta here.
You sound convinced. If he’s gone, I’ll stop posting here. If he signs, you honor your previous vow to stop posting here. Put your honor where you mouth is? A deal Jordo?
@Grant. 40%???? Come on, man. This will go down like your Ravens prediction.
That will be something, we could lose both Alex and Ribico. Oh my, I’m losing sleep already.
Nick, despite Grant’s 40% “hunch” neither one is going to happen.
I’m just trying to get Jordan to be a man. He gave his word. It’s sad to see man go back on it.
Jordo, should I sweeten the pot with a cash offer?
Seriously. 40 percent? I think I’ll bookmark this article to remember how outrageously silly you sounded when Alex re-signs with the Niners.
Right on!
Harbaugh’s track record indicates he could do well without Alex Smith.
His only track record in the pros is Alex!!!!!
Actually, 2002 NFL MVP Rich Gannon was a Harbaugh product.
Like I have already posted, Smith will get what he wants but it may not be from the 49ers. There are just too many teams in need of a serviceable QB and not enough QB’s available. My guess is that the Niners make the deal with Smith and when Kaep or Tolzien are ready they trade Alex for a few draft picks, towels and footballs. Every body wins. Josh Johnson hasn’t done anything in the NFL to warrent being a starter so he is not the replacement.
Apparently Grant fell for the smoke and mirrors that is the Sanchez extension. It is an extra 2.75 million dollars for 3 option years
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/10/breaking-down-sanchezs-lipstick-and-powder-contract/
Grant – please learn to read and think before writing irresponsible posts.
He’s still getting bumped up to 20+ million guaranteed, which Smith wants, and the Niners don’t want to give to him.
Grant, How do you know?
Reading tea leaves…
Realy Grant.
How do you know this??? Name your source.
Looks like it’s a difference of 2.5 mill between what Sanchez was going to receive and what he will get now. A strange move by the Jets any way you cut it seeing as how Sanchez has regressed.
I can’t see Smith and the Niners parting ways. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for either party really. Smith isn’t going to find a huge deal in FA, he would have to start over yet again and he’d be leaving the guy who saved his career.
The Niners would be starting over as well, at least at QB seeing as though Kap only got a handful of snaps and needed a fair bit of time on the bench to begin with.
The way I see it, if you can’t get a deal you like with Smith then go and get Manning. If you’re going to pay for a QB get the HOFer.
@Rocket stop being so reasonable. You’re ruining the angry vibe man.
:-D
Nothing gets the blood boiling like a little Alex Smith talk huh?
I’m thinking its 65% Alex signs with the 49ers; for many of the same reasons he signed the 1 year deal last year; mainly that although less than perfect from either side’s point of view, he & SF can help each other more than not.
What if he does bolt? Bad for 49ers this year because Kap probably won’t be ready by Opening Day, ST’s a back-up in training, and Josh Johnson? Please. I’m not saying he might not come here if Alex leaves, but he’s not the answer. Josh would be a noticeable step backwards from AS2011, and recruiting any FA WRs gets harder. The 49ers would survive ok and maybe make the Playoffs, but will need Kap to step up before they’re really going anywhere.
Alex goes to another team and instantly thrives? Maybe, maybe not.
Its better for him to stay here. In 2012 its better for 49ers if he stays here; though I know some of y’all won’t agree with me on that!
Brotha,
Why do you think Johnson can’t Dona good job as the Niners QB. He knows this offense and can step right in. Have you honestly seen Josh Johnson play a game before? I hope Johnson comes here no matter what.
Jordo, you’ve been so spot on with your prognostication before, TSmith, KKolb, DMcnabb, etc, etc. Give it a break you have no clue which QB or the skills necessary to run an offense. Jeez clueless wonder!!
Has History taught us anything? Throwing Colin Kaepernick to the wolves before he’s ready is exactly what got us the QB we have in the last 7 years. Fast Forward to a more prudent system where the QB sits the Bench for 2 or 3 years and completely learns the West Coast System and Develops then I could get behind the argument of letting Smith go. At this point this stalemate needs to get worked out. Smith needs to be in San Francisco and the 49ers need him here if they plan on having success in 2012. The benchmark was set by Fitzpatrick’s ridiculous contract he got midway into the season last year. The 49ers need to pay Smith and maybe compromise with a 4 year deal with an option for a 5th based on certain incentives. His 1 year deal last year was incentive laden and he met most of those escalators that being said, it would be foolish to see him end up in any other city.
Nuff Said,
AJ
If they let Alex walk then they have to believe Colin is ready. We will see
6 and 10 coming up with CK
Papa Stan,
If Kap is the starter, I’ll be here to bet you we won’t end up at 6-10.
Jordo, you have no clue what CK can do. You’ve got the agenda addiction bad. You need therapy!!
I agree with the 40%, baalke won’t budge
Grant,
“Another thing. With this stalemate, Smith is demonstrating surprising self-confidence. He’s not going back to the Niners with his tail between his legs. It’s as if he really believes he’s elite, and he wants to be paid what he believes is fair. Good for him”.
Well after being called ‘elite’ and ‘our QB’ by his coach, maybe there should be a little swagger of confidence in his attitude.
I’m hesitant about giving Alex anything more than 4 yrs at over 8-10 mil$, but then again, it’s not my money. If Alex can swing a 5-6 yr @13-15 mil$ deal, well he is a very savvy business man indeed. This is getting ineresting with each passing day.
This is the best news possible. Alex need the Niner’s more then the Niner’s need him, I have full confidence in our coach that Kaep, Tolzien, or a free agent can have a better season then Alex did year. 29Th best offense, horrendous red zone play, horrific third down play. See ya Alex.
Yeah they all would have had all the 4th quarter comebacks and the big comeback against the Saints. Get real…Hell Alex had more comebacks than Joe…
David Akers had those 4th quarter comebacks.
Stan,
With a different QB, we may not have had to come back. His games were very uneven. He was down, then up
In lots of the games.
Dont confuse him with me…
40%?!?!??!?!?!?
Let him walk. The 49ers will do just fine without him.
The Josh Johnson factor is significant, I think Harbs would feel much better about starting Kap, if he had Johnson backing him up
This would also free up even more cap space to sign our own guys
and bring in a top tier free agent
Im still expecting Smith to resign, and im ok with that, but I like the potential back up plan if he moves on
Grant ; Alex is going to throw for 37 Tds 4200 yards passing , 500 rushing yards 5 TDS , 1rec 26 yards 1 TD Mvp SB Mvp
You’re smoking some good bud, and you’re not sharing.
Hey Smithers,
I was just checking if your man crush signs with another team, are you going to root for that team instead of the Niners because you are AS fans and not Niner fans? Go NINERS !!!!!!!!!!!!
Neal, you’re trying to hard. Go back to your mentors Bay and Jordo and get a refresher course.
Hofer,
You didn’t answer Neals question. Are you staying with us Niner fans or are you going to Jacksonville with Smith?? Please answer the question.
Hofer has always been a 49ers fan first. Plus, he knows good wine.
@Hoffer,
Heard you went out with the your boys yesterday, your mentor, Prime Time, DS ( not sure what sex) Claude Balls and FDM. Did you have fun?
BEWARE OF THE RAMS
The Rams’ draft trade should be the story that supplants Alex Smith’s contract negotiations for the hour, and it should be a light bulb moment for the 49ers. The NFC West is about to turn night into day, becoming one of the strongest divisions in football. Sam Bradford, with weapons and protection, is going to be an elite QB. The Cardinals may land Peyton Manning, and Pete Carroll isn’t going to stand still in this arms race either.
All of these teams are going to be amassing weapons of war. They’re inspired by the 49ers’ overnight success and by the 49ers’ achilles heel at QB. They’re hoping the 49ers brass feels a sense of loyalty and are emotionally invested (just like 50% of the fans) in proving that Alex Smith is destined for greatness after all.
HE IS NOT! Alex Smith is not elite, and will never approach greatness. Right now, he’s the 11th best QB in the NFC. And with 9 of the past 10 Superbowls being won by elite QBs, that isn’t anywhere near good enough. Not even with the 86 Giants defense.
You may think you’re rooting as hard as anyone for Alex Smith to remain a 49er. But you’re not. Jeff Fischer, Pete Carroll, and Ken Whisenhunt are crossing their fingers…praying for the 49ers brass to waste the 49ers window of opportunity on Alex Smith. Everything hangs in the balance now…
Dude that was epic
And with 9 of the past 10 Superbowls being won by elite QBs, that isn’t anywhere near good
Guess it depends what you call elite. I dont consider Eli elite I guess some do.
@Undercenter
You bring up the point of what’s elite. This term is grossly overused and mis-used. A dictionary definition is the very best. So, what’s tops?
To me that means the top 10%. In the NFL that would be the top 3. I’ll call that Brady+Rogers+Bree’s. If P.Manning returns to health & form I’ll add him in without bumping anyone else.
That leaves out Eli, Big Ben, and Rivers (who should rebound) and makes them second tier, although still very good and still Championship QBs.
Other QBs follow and plug them in where you want, but to use the term ‘elite’ correctly, we’re talking about the top 3 or 4: 10% of 32 starting QBs.
And yes, I am contradicting our fearless leader, JH, when he called Alex elite. If he was saying Alex had become a ‘BigTime QB’ well, OK. It’s not the same to me.
Eli has been very lucky in his two SB runs.
This year the quick whistle by the ref negating Bradshaw’s fumble on the Giant 15 yard line with about 2:20 to go and KW two fumbles allowed Eli to be in the Super Bowl.
Against the patriots, that play to Tyree was 1 in 100.
He’s good, but he’s been pretty lucky, too.
@undercenter and brotha
We spend way too much time talking about who/what is “elite” without anybody agreeing what “elite” means.
How can you debate whether a player is “elite” or not when the term is not defined?
Grant, you NEED to do a blog about what you consider “elite”. That definition needs to fit all those players who you think are elite while excluding those who you don’t consider elite. That way, nobody is getting called “elite” who isn’t and nobody who is elite is discounted as being such.
Alan Marks,
I couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s sad but it is true. Our QB is the glaring weakness that we are not addressing. The Niners brass feel as though they can get by and win a super bowl with Smith, in spite of his spotty play. I don’t feel that way. I never have, I never will.
Well said. See how the Smithers turn the argument into an linguistic debate and argue the meaning of the word ‘elite’ while conveniently ignoring your points?
His points are well understood and has been hashed out many times by many people on many blogs. The one thing that he was stating that I didnt understand was 9 out 10 superbowl winning QBs were elite. I dont feel Eli is elite so I dispute that claim. And no I dont think Smith is close to being elite. I do feel Eli is better then Smith but I also dont feel Eli is elite. You can call it what you want. Thats a whole differnt subject and one I would like to debate but seems like no one wants to debate anything other then Smith and I am not doing that anymore. I agree with that the word elite needs to be defined and if you got a definition I would like to hear it. I dont call you a hater or anyone else for that matter, I refuse to lower myself down to grade school standards.
Nick
In a civil society and to have a civil debate, all people need to agree what words mean. The definition of a word may differ from person to person, and if that difference is substantial enough to bring about a different conclusion, then yes. It is important for all involved to come to an understanding of what that word means.
Of course, this blog is rarely civil and rarer still has civil debates. So, maybe you don’t know that.
Grant Cohn
2 mins ago
He’s still getting bumped up to 20+ million guaranteed, which Smith wants, and the Niners don’t want to give to him.
Grant that’s because 17.75 million of it was from his rookie contract. The Jets only added and additional 2.75 mil guaranteed for three team controlled options years. The move was more of a restructuring of salary as they save 6 mil this year by converting 8 mil to signing bonus.
So they basically did nothing that will hinder Alex’s deal. Once again you jumped the gun and wrote a reactionary article with little to no evidence to support your theory.
“So basically they did nothing that will hinder Alex’s deal.” Evan Silva disagrees.
Grant, he caddied for Jim got cripes sakes and just started raising his family. Maybe u don’t get it as I don’t think I turned 19 yet, but there is now a 99.9% chance he stays. Four year deal will get done ASAP. Niners forever baby!
Hey read barrows latest story and then adjust your percentages. And while u are at it, tuck in your shirt!
I’m sticking with 40 percent.
Is your shirt really untucked? For shame.
100% :)
Grant, don’t you realize that the impasse is due to the fact that the 49ers are dealing with Alex’s agent, who is doing what agents do, and not with Alex himself? My guess is that at some point Alex will tell his agent, you did a good job, thanks for trying, now get the best offer you can get from Balke, whatever it is, and I’ll sign.
This is trying to make a big story out of a non-story. If Alex’s agent starts collecting offers from other teams, then we’ve got something to talk about.
I think Smith has more pride than to yield at the last minute.
We’ll see. Alex has already made a bucket of money and as a smart guy he probably knows that life won’t be nearly as good under some other offensive coordinator. Alex’s pride has been massaged like Kobe beef by Harbaugh. Most players have their ego tied up in dollar amounts; I don’t think that Alex is driven by that so much. I could be wrong.
Grant, you are young so listen to an old timer… Pride will get you in trouble, put it aside. In any negotiation, the party to speak first always loses. The art of the deal is to put emotions (among them: pride) aside and go to the mattress. You can always walk away from the dream house, dream car, even dream girl if the fit isn’t right for your happiness. If you want something bad enough, you will overpay. If you allow your emotions in, you will certainly cave. How badly does AS want to play for JH? How badly does Baalke want to stress his salary cap management? In there somewhere is the meeting of the minds. Based on his past negotiations, I believe AS will be back for less than he wants but a wee little more than Baalke wants. As in any deal if one party remains rigid, stubborn, adamant to their price then the deal falls through (I can’t give you a percentage of the time to support your 60% guess). Someone else buys the house, gets the car and marries the dream girl.
I’m interested if you can share the source for where JH is insinuating he can do ok without AS. I agree as it is just another obstacle to overcome like no OTAs last year. But, if you don’t mind, I am interested to read the quote myself. Thanks.
It wouldn’t be yielding. The two sides will compromise. No one knows the exact details of the negotiations outside of a few people.
Grant, your fired!
Baalke is the GM so he handles roster matters he will listen a bit to Harbaugh his wants and needs but he is in charge and is instructing Paraag.
Baalke doesnt like AS the same way as Harbaugh IMO so he doesnt give AS a free pass.
It has been mentioned numerous times that most teams aren’t looking hard at Smith because they believe he will be back with the 49ers and don’t want to be used as a negotiating tool. I think all of the gushing over Smith might have been an attempt by Harbaugh to drive down his value to other teams. Even if he hits the open market I don’t see any other team giving him a contract close to what Sanchez just signed.
hmmm…..never thought of that.
I doubt that was Harbaugh’s intent, but interesting point.
Sorry Alex we aren’t the stuip jets!!!! Goodbye
So a QB goes 13 and 3 and we say good-bye. That’s smart???
Team went 13-3. Deefense and ST went 13-3. Alex Smith led the 29th ranked passing offense
I think Smith could have possible suitors cuz his season was very decent if some teams want a QB who plays safe he will be on there list but now cant be make public otherwise its tampering, so i hope that he holds out till FA opens but its 50-50 IMO dont know if he has the balls to explore his options, thats also why he isnt high on my list cuz he lacks the balls for our team
If AS gets a offer from a club that has a better than decent OL and a NFL quality receiving corps, I think he should go. AS is very smart and analytical. He knows what he needs to do his job, and the 49ers really don’t fit him. Good luck AS, you are not elite, but you probably can be successful in a better environment.
The Jets can get free of Sanchez just as easily as they could before the modified his contract. For $2+ million now, they have the option to dump him at no cost in the last three years of his extended contract. Everything else was coming to him out of his original contract. That’s face for Sanchez, and flexibility for the Jets.
I still think the 49ers and Smith work something out Monday. After Sanchez, I’m dropped my certainty from 99% to 70% which, because I’m also a no nothing on the outside, is just a wild guess.
The 29% difference is based on the possibility that the Seahawk’s organization may want to mess with the 49ers. They could sign Alex or drive his price up. That would be interesting poker, and there are at least two guys up there that would enjoy that.
“no nothing” or “know nothing” … which ever
Truth is Alex Smith needs us more than we need him… Any other coaching staff and he’s going to look just like he did the first 6 years… Don’t budge Niners… You traded up to grab CK for a reason…
As fans we have the luxury of sticking to one team and never wavering. To those involved with the NFL (players, coaches, etc.), this is a business. There really isn’t loyalty on either side thanks to free agency.
If they can’t make this work by Tuesday, then Condon will see what kind of offers Alex will get from other teams. I can’t think of many who will jump to offer him what he’s looking for, so I think his odds of reconsidering the Niners’ offer is pretty high.
The Niners will opt to look for a contingency plan. If they sign another QB while Alex tests the market then they might pull the offer from the table regardless of what Alex decides.
No matter how this plays out it should make for some interesting talk in these parts :-)
“If they sign another QB while Alex tests the market then they might pull the offer from the table regardless of what Alex decides.”
Stop getting my hopes up you evil temptress!
You are using sound business logic, 49erGirl. However, logic sometimes escapes the people in power. Examples that come to mind: Daniel Snyder, Stephen Ross, Mike Ditka, and the yahoo who gave Ryan Fitzpatrick his latest contract.
Luckily for us the 49ers have shown better judgement as of late, leading me to believe they are of sound business mind :-)
49erGirl,
Baalke does not budge. You don’t just give a guy a 4 year deal because he wants it. The Niners don’t crack, if you don’t like their offer, you can find another team.
Niners didn’t budge on Goldson last year. They didn’t budge on Rogers this year. Why would they budge on Alex?? They treat everyone in that locker room the same. That’s why the team is so special. Alex won’t and shouldn’t get any special treatment. That treatment could divide a locker room. Especially one that had over 20 free agents this year.
Grant you just want Alex out and the niners to get Peyton. That’s ok. So do I.
If he’s healthy of course.
You don’t get it. Get Manning as is in order to get rid of Alex Smith. That’s a win win even if it creates a mess. Right?
Manning “as is” isn’t necessarily a win win. If he can’t play then you’re stuck with Kap ready or not. If Alex doesn’t want to sign and wants to test the market what’s the harm in checking out Manning? If Manning can play it’s a no brainer who’s better and it’s a better situation for Kap cause you know Manning only has 2 or 3 more years left anyway. If the niners aren’t sure about Kap (unlikely in my view), however, then Smith is the choice cause he can play 8 more years.
Sorry. Sarcasm doesn’t seem to register in these blogs.
with some of the idiots on here it’s hard to tell sometimes. not calling you an idiot ht.
The Niners will be better off without Smith. Harbaugh knows he blew it when he called Smith an elite QB. I think Smith believes he really is elite, but in relaity, he is nothing but mediocre.
I can see Harbaugh, given his record with quarterbacks, missing on his evaluation of a quarterback that he’s worked with for a full season. I just don’t get him missing elite all the way down to mediocre. Maybe Harbaugh’s judgement about quarterbacks is mediocre.
The 49ers are the best option for Smith and Smith is the best option for the 49ers. I think a deal will get done.
If not, no big deal. CK will have to step up or the 49ers can bring in a Smith clone like Matt Moore. It doesn’t take elite talent to hand the ball to Gore and Hunter and watch the defense win games.
I’ve recently been thinking about the time when the 49ers couldn’t get a deal done with Rickey Watters after their last Superbowl. No big deal. But, it turned out to be a big deal for Watters and the 49ers. It hurt them both. Neither one got back to the Superbowl.
Ricky had mad game though! Elite Alex, not so much
The 49ers offense was fine after Watters left. In ’95 the 49ers were one of the top offenses in the league even without Watters. The defensive collapse was the problem.
If the 49ers lose Smith the passing offense might drop from 29th in the league to … well, you can’t go much lower actually.
They needed Watters to beat Dallas and that’s all that counted back in 95.
I concur yet let’s not downplay the value of the QB only turnnig the ball over only 7 times in 18 games. If he has “average” numbers to the other NFL QBs (elite or not), he’ll have 13 turnovers in 18 games and our turnover differential is middle of the pack. Our great D has to fight off short field drives more often.
Rather than reference the hand-offs I’d prefer to reference the 3rd down decision making and the red zone play calling. I know it is more than the QB (TE, WR, blocking O line, etc). Those are the things Matt Moore or Josh Johnson or CK have to give us above and beyond what 2011 AS gave us to get us back to the NFC Championship game and the SB.
Yeah the defense won all the games, right. Oh forget about the 4th quarter comebacks by who, AS if I remember right. The Saints game our great defense blew 2 leads in the 4th and who won it with 9 seconds left. Let me guess, oh it was Alex again.
Kick rocks barefoot Smith! I never liked him. I still don’t see what he did so great this year. You are paid to not make bonehead mistakes like he always did in the past. Thank the Defense more than Smith.
Grab Josh Johnson or Vince Young. Work with CK7 and see what he can do in 2013. 49ers should never be stupid like the Bills and Jets.
“… 49ers should never be stupid like the Bills and Jets.”
Well, I can agree with that. You’ve left out a great prospect that is sure to be available. He’s a guy with a world of potential. I think his name is Davis “something or other”. Or was it “something or other” Davis?
Why not go after Manning? That would show Smith whose boss.
@htwaits
So very well put ht, I’m sure there wasn’t a hint of sarcasm there, was there? I loved it
In some circles it would be too obvious, but maybe not here.
J ski,
That’s hilarious bro. Kicking rocks barefooted!!!! SMH bro!!! Funny!!
I really would love to see Kaepernick get his shot at the job. Alex had a good season last year but was terrible on third down conversions.
The team had an amazing season last year and the offensive team was terrible on third downs. The offensive team was also terrible on a lot of first and second downs which led to a lot of long third down attempts.
I’m really curious to see what Alex can do year 2 with Harbaugh. It’s almost worth the niners apparent tunnel vision. Will he really be that much better? Or will he remain mediocre? Can we please fast-forward to september?
it doesnt matter whopwe sign kap will get his shot this offseason. alex or not kaepernick will have a chance to show how good he is…dudes straigth out of college he aint ready yet
Another dumb remark. Check the 4th quarter comebacks
Fourth quarters dont equal 3rd down conversions…… and its funny that everyone that brings up the 4th q comebacks dont bring up the running game. Our kicker was our offensive MVP. Nuff said
@md
In what big game did TB come back in and win it with a TD? Not a FG?
Now I’m going to go walk five miles as payment for all the silly posts I’ve been making. Enjoy.
Who owes whom? Seriously? The reality is that neither the Niners nor Alex Smith owe the other anything.
Assuming that Colin Kaepernick will be a franchise or elite QB is laughable. He may turn out to be a Hall of Famer or he may be a complete bust. If people in the league were convinced of his future greatness he wouldn’t have been available in the second round. He’s an interesting prospect, nothing more and nothing less. Assumptions of future greatness based on a successful college career in a minor college program playing in a second rate conference against second and third rate opposition are foolish. The people who are so convinced CK is HOF material are probably many of the same people that thought Nate Davis was the answer.
Big Sky Niner,
Thank you!
Best post of the week!
That’s it! Nate Davis. I keep forgetting that guys first name.
Yep, and Joe Montana wouldn’t have been around in the 3rd round, or Tom Brady in the 6th round correct Big Sky? Truth is, the only people who know how ready CK is are the coaching staff and front office because we never saw much after the preseason.
If they feel confident that they can win with him, it might make AS’s bargaining power very weak. Remember, until the season started no one thought much of Bowman either and look what he did. Unless we are at practice a lot of this crap is purely speculation on our parts.
@Jack
It is rare that a new starter plays like Bowman did.
Add up all the new starters in the NFL last year (bet it is near 100) and fewer than 5 (at most) played at NB’s level.
To expect every new starter will play like NB did is to have unreasonable expectations.
@DS, Again you miss the point. If the talent evaluators were always correct why would Montana and Brady still be sitting there that late? Our scouting department and coaching staff are nails. Look at what they did last year alone. 4 rookies who had significant roles, and others were good special teams contributors.
I am sure if you go back to the quick signing period you will remember how many were up in arms regarding them not re-signing Spikes, Clements, et al, yet their replacements played at a higher level.
If for some reason they are not able to come to terms with Smith, I have complete confidence that they feel the have a capable replacement already in place.
ds… Aldon Smith??????
Not to mention Culliver, Hunter, Miller and Jones. All key contributors in 2011, though not at the same level as Bowman.
@Jack
No. You didn’t get the point.
The point is that CK has a much higher likelihood of not coming close the performance Bowman had (or AS in particular). Also, the QB position is much harder than those other positions and players you mention. The only semi-shock to me was Spikes. I never thought for a second that replacing Nate was going to be that hard. I think it will be a whole lot harder to replace AS than it was to replace NC in 2010.
And, yes I am well aware that we had an excellent draft last year. No need to inform me of that.
@md
I don’t know what you are asking me here. Are you asking me if I think Aldon Smith performed well? Come on man. I have written more than 1 post this season talking how good he is.
But, I also think he was put in the best situation in his rookie year. Something the other AS was not in his rookie year. Aldon had to come off the bench and was asked to do things that he is comfortable with. That is primarily rush the passer. I don’t know if he will get so easily accumulated into the other duties of playing OLB in the Niners 3-4. If he does, then that is more a tribute to Aldon and JH and his staff more so than Balke. If he does not, then that is where the issue of PH (keep/renegotiate his salary, cut him) come into play. That decision is a big time decision which can have a profound impact on our club. And most fans are just ignoring it completely wanting some PM to come here instead.
I think your brain is working at 40%, for coming up with that percentage when Smith & Co. are still saying publically that it will be done. It will be done.
hes coming back. if you really think the team an him wont work togeher or alex wont accept less years or money to stay with his successful team then you must have not known the 49ers before last season. hes done it before we just got a play away from the SB hel obviously want to go there again. anyone who thinks kaepernicks is ready needs to watch some football. alex said himself it will get done, they had him for 7 years all of them unsucessful except last year when he finally got an offensive coach he started doin it. never had the same OC before. never played the same playbook the year after he learned it. now hel get his first chance to do that in his career an u guys think hes gonna walk away from that or not let it happen? come on be logical at least.
wow, can things really be getting this snippy?
Alex was a mortal lock to come back just a few days ago. Then Peyton Place comes back in reruns, the Jets pull a complete brain-cramp on Sanchez, and suddenly the Niners are leaking (via their spokesman, Maiocco) the name Josh Johnson and they only want Alex for 3 yrs because they feel Kaep will be ready by then.
Could it really be, despite Harbaughs constant protestations, that the “Alex is our guy” comes with an important caveat: assuming its with the right contract. If that’s the case, then he’s not *necessarily* our guy, right? He’s our guy unless we think he’s not realistic in valuing himself, in which case there are other guys that can occasionally chuck a football and let Patrick Willis, Justin Smith, Navarro Bowman, et al keep them in the game.
No. Its just getting snippy. Alex really is our guy (Harbaugh’s in particular), and this is the little dance that happens before the years and numbers are agreed to on a contract. But a message has been sent (by Baalke, via Maiocco). You think you got this? No, you only got this if you do it on terms we’re ok with. You dont like it, we have options. This is, after all, a business. If we dont win the Super Bowl in 2012 with you, we might just win it in 2013 and 2014 with another guy.
We’ll see how good a poker player Baalke really is. So far, so good. But even a good player can overplay his hand.
Doesn’t matter who the qb is it always depends on the contract. the saints had to franchise Brees cause they couldn’t get a contract done yet.
it does matter: Brees gets franchised because he’s ELITE. Niners franchised Goldson, NOT Alex. As in, now way the Saints let Brees go; the Niners, on the other hand, are saying they can live without Alex, because he’s a fricking FREE AGENT.
neither here nor there. this is just another play in the game.
Love your takes fesnyc ! You do a good job articulating the main points, I loved Alex against the Saints but thought for sure he should of made one or two more plays against the Giants. Much different with a Young Quarterback, but once again Harbaugh and Balke appear to work with each other and not against each other.
I have nothing useful to add. I just wanted to say great post fesnyc.
thanks guys, really appreciate it
Do you think the 49ers are reconsidering Manning with this Alex Smith stalemate?
I would love that… Peyton’s flying to AZ pretty soon according to reports. At the very least, fly him here just to piss off AZ.
If they don’t then they won’t live up to their promise of always looking to improve the talent at every position.
Larry Fitzgerald just tossed Kolb even further under the bus on NFL Network. Love it.
@msc
Like I told you. Kolb sucked. AZ sucked with Kolb. Once Skelton came in AZ won.
And, what did LF say msc?
Grant,
Did my fellow blog area learn anything from last year. Baalke and the 49ers don’t cave. They make an offer and you take it or leave it. When tge Niners get priced out, they get out. They didn’t cave on Goldson, Clements, Franklin, Lawson. You take tge Niners deal or you get no Niners deal.
The deal gas been on the table for weeks. JH told you that last month at the combine. He gets worried when his QB is unsigned.
Grant, its funny how all of a sudden, the traffic on this blog has slowed down. It’s as if that 40% feels like 5% to the Smithers. The Niners will not cave, they don’t.
Alex, don’t let tge doorknob hit you in the azz on the way out. Jacksonville jaguars #11, Alex Elite Smith!!! Bwahahahahaahahahaha!
Jordo, you’ve been wrong here so many times that one more time doesn’t matter and becomes boring. Meh.
If the 49ers let Smith go, then I’m going to assume, until proven wrong, that it was the right thing to do and that they have a plan.
Having said that, I’m expecting Smith back with the 49ers.
@exgolfer
The voice of sanity. If you have faith in Coach and Baalke just let it roll.
@Jordan,
I think he can go to the Seahawks, with the rivalry between Harbaugh and Carol, it won’t matter our defense would set Alex back to 2005.
Wherever Alex goes he won’t be worth crap for two years. That’s the #1 Alexcuse – he needs two years to learn a new system.
I’d love to see Seattle sign him.
@MSC,
That would be two automatic wins for us.
I just can’t believe how many haters there are. After a 13 and 3 season and beating the Saints would be enough. No not the haters. First winning season in 10 years and the haters just plain hate. And our defense isn’t that elite. Rogers and Goldson had career years, can they repeat the feat, no. Rogers might not even be back. A lot of fans want his gone too and he’s a pro Bowl player. We just have stupid fans.
“Rogers and Goldson had career years, can they repeat the feat, no.”
Using that logic same with Alex Smith then, no? Time to move on from the 7 year wonder who apparently overvalues himself… Good thing the org doesn’t.
Funny how once money gets in the picture the whole “team” philosophy kinda goes into the gutter. I think Smith should take the deal. After him being overpaid for 7 years, why should the Niners shell out more money. And seriously who knows, maybe if Smith takes the offer and he does really well, the Niners might just extend his contract.
Everything in this article is poorly supported opinion passed off as fact. Harbaugh does not negotiate for the 49ers, the front office does. Trying to sign Smith for less years and less money does not mean Harbaugh thinks he can win the Super Bowl with anyone playing QB. That is a stupid thing to write.
My hope is Smith signs for 3 years (give him more per year if that will help), and then Kaepernick can grow into the job.
There must be a bunch of young kids posting on this forum, because those of us who have seen the great 49er QBs think it’s pathetic that you guys believe Mr. 1 of 13 is anything better than mediocre. He even admitted that he froze up on the first play vs. the Giants. It was supposed to be down the middle to D. Walker who was wide open for a TD. Alex didn’t even look at him and checked off. That’s Pop Warner football. If they do keep Alex make him compete with CK. Then let him go to Seattle or Arizona and guarantee us two wins a season.
And if Kaepernick goes 13-3, while playing efficiently but not putting up big numbers, then plays one great playoff game and one poor one, will you be happy with that? I am legitimately curious if you simply don’t like Alex Smith or if you won’t be content until the 49ers have someone on the Brady/Brees level?
@jerome
They don’t want the guy to be named Alex Smith.
Had CK done what AS did, they would be ecstatic. “Look how smart and efficient CK plays. AS never could have done that! Look at 6 comeback wins. AS didn’t have rhat many in 6 years! CK won 13 games. It took AS 5 years combined to win as many.” And so on.
If ck does that in his first year starting I’d be damn happy with that. Who wouldn’t? Smith isn’t a rookie last I checked. Apples and oranges my friend!
@md
He is a rookie in the system. Heck, his whole career he has been a rookie in a system.
And, I hear all the time how important it is for a QB (from QB’s now, so they know) to stay in the same system.
Terry Bradshaw has remarked how smart and head strong AS is. Terry had trouble learning just that one system he ran in Pit for all those years. Much less 6 systems.
DS Smith is far from a rookie. New offense yes, but ittakes a rookie a lot more than scheme to make it in the NFL. Smith should know a ton of defensive schemes. A rookie doesnt, the speed of the game. Rookies dont, and certain tendencies that a rookie doesnt. Apples and oranges ds
“Smith should know a ton of defensive schemes”
I agree. I guess we just differ on if he does or not. I think he does.
I think AS may know the defensive schmees better than his own. Since he has seen lots of defenses before, but he has not seen his own system long enough. I watched the Giants and NO and several times the announcers would say something like:
“WOW! What a play by Eli/Brees. The only way to make that play is because that QB knows the system so well he knows where all his own guys are going to be at all times.”
So, even for guys who you call “elite” md, they didn’t start out making those types of improv plays. A lot of times, it is due to the QB having ran that play so many times, he can do it in the dark.
When SY retired, he said he/and the team could have ran a few passing routes with blind folds on and make them work. I don’t know if he was serious, but the fact that I wonder about it means that reps make those things work.
Fact: In his last 24 starts, Alex Smith has is 17-7 with a 92.6 qb rating, 32 TDs/8 INTs. Including a 101 qb rating with 6 total TDs/0 INTs in the 2012 playoffs, leading one of the most remarkable 4th-quarter comebacks in NFL playoff history.
Along with what Kolb, Sanchez and Fitzpatrick got, 3 years ago Matt Cassel got 6 years, $62.7 million, 28 million guaranteed for going 11-5 with an 89.4 qb rating, 21 TDs/11 INTs. Jay Cutler got 5 years, $50 million, $20 million guaranteed and he has never put together as good a season as Alex had last year.
Had CK done in his first year what Alex did, hell yea I’d be impressed. As a matter of fact I’d be estatic because unlike Alex and the kid Andy Dalton, CKs’ ceiling is off the charts. Paarag and Baalke will not chicken out against Condon. Different teams place different values of their players. Some to their foolish chagrin. Case in point. DeAngelo Williams. Kolb. I don’t know what game Alex is playing but he might end up holding the clipboard.
I say it sounds like a great plan. Bring on JJ
Hate to change the subject, but just seen that G Steve Hutchinson was released by the Vikings. He’d be a cheap stopgap option at RG so that Kilgore can take another year to develop.
@midwest
1. Do you think he is better than Adam Snyder?
2. Do you think that he will come in at the same price as Snyder?
I think the Niner’s want him back, but they are tough negotiators, it a take it or leave it attitude or check the the free agent market, it seems that they are using the same method as New England, minus a great QB.
Hutch played his whole career at LG sometimes that is a tough transition.
At this stage I think Snyder is actually better than Hutchinson at guard. Hutch was awesome but he’s pretty old now.
I also really like Snyder’s versatility. He can do a respectable job at any position on the line. I’d like to see the 49ers upgrade the RG position but I hope they hang on to Snyder as well. He’s a valuable backup.
Snyder seems like a lock to get overpaid in free agency by another team.
I agree Grant. Snyder will likely get an offer like Wraage got last year from the Rams.
Still, if he doesn’t get that offer I’d love to see him come back to the 49ers. I like Snyder for the same reason I liked Wraage – hard worker and versatile.
Good point msc
If Snyder goes, who else do we have to be the versatile OL who can come in and play in a pinch at a satisfactory level for any OL position?
I just can’t get over 40%! I think Grant just threw it out there for the web traffic. He is coming back and with another year under Jim you will see a more dramatic improvement. Take it to the bank … With the contract that Alex is going to sign in the next couple days!
Is that a clip-on tie u r wearing? If u are going to play with the big boys do some research!
Niners Forever!
Why is this always about Alex? It’s not like the Niners have signed any of their other “must” sign FAs other than Spillman and Brooks either. Hopefully we should see what the Niner front office is up to shortly. Are they just getting a value on their players or what?
@niner61
You’ve been around long enough to know the answer to your own question.
Woukd be great if he gets 5 yr, $20 plus million deal in the division! What would be better for the Niners record then to face him 10 plus times… Nobody knows him better then the Niners coaching staff and the contract would eat up a huge chunck of said teams salary cap. Go Alex Go! Get paid, please!!!!
You don’t know your NFL history very well do you?
The Raiders screwed over Marcus Allen, and for years Allen beat the crap out of them as a Chief. You never want to play against an ex-player twice a year if you can at all help it. They will perform great and whoop you.
Forgive the sarcasm DS, but Alex is no Marcus Allen.
Allen indeed was screwed over by A.Davis. But he was not going to start over a healthy Bo Jackson. Having Allen’ heavy contract made no sense if BJ was going to carry the load. Another bad comparision (Allen/Alex) when you take into account that MA had a SB win under his belt and many great years on his resume.
Yeah, I’m sure our defense would be terrified.
@AES
I believe you stated many times that AS needs to have that fire lit under him. When the Niners are behind, he looks great. When they have a lead, you looks average.
Have you not stated something like this before?
Then, don’t you think that AS being kicked out of the team he was so loyal too and got to the NFC title game would light that little extra fire when he plays against his old team?
I remember the Seattle game in 2010, opening day. We had just dropped Robinson, our RB and Seattle picked him up. Robinson sucked running the ball when he played for us. But, in that game, he ran over some defenders and made a much larger impact on that game than he ever made in his many years here for our team.
And Robinson is not as good as AS.
So, you may be right about AS not being as good as Marcus Allen, but AS is a LOT better than Robinson. And Robinson did that against a pretty good defense as well. The point being, when a player faces the team who dropped him, they have that little extra thing that makes them better than normal.
Fox’s Jay Glazer reports that the salary cap will be announced Monday, the figures, 120.6 million for 2012, compared with 120.375 in 2011.
Grant,
What do you think about signing Bince Young? Could JH fix him? Remember that Vince lead the eagles to a big win on the road last year against the Giants…
Just because Vince had a great game against the Giants, doesn’t mean that Bince will be just as good. Marcus Vick wasn’t even in his brother’s league.
Bottom line, either we’ll see the end Of an era ( alex) or we’ll see the continuing of it……I’m getting nervous as if I was going for my first kiss!!! lol anxious I guess because I know we’re so close to hitting a homerun!!
Look people. If Alex smith is still here after everything else that’s went on what makes you think he is going anywhere now after his “best” season as a 49er? THE only way he isn’t coming back is if he chooses to with greed! And I just can’t see that happening. He would be lost without harbaugh.
We could have a nuclear war and Alex would still be here.
He’s a damn cockroach.
Lmao!!!
MSC, as much as you and I get along your comments are starting to read like Neal’s and Tim’s. Come on man you are smarter than that! Really?
C’mon HOF that was funny with a little truth. He has gone through a nuclear holocaust with this franchise. Lighten up dude
I have never been a fan of Alex, Aarron Roders home town is 15 miles from us, wanted him and was very mad at Nolan and McCarthy and McCarthy benefited, The differences’ is Cockroaches run and hide when the lights come on, Alex seemed to stand tall even when every one was booing him, me included, and after the Saints game I though wow he has arrived, But has bad as the williams plays killed us and yes I believe with out that stupid play of not getting out of the way, we would have been in the Super Bowl, Alex should of made one or two plays that put us over. I like CK’s potential and a gut feeling Thorzein but right now Alex may be our best shot for consistancy but 23Jordo could be right about Johnson of Tampa, Who knows, All I know after the first week of Free Agency in August, I thought we were going to be crappy and we know how that turned out. Look at the Raiders and Colts, All kinds of Salary cap problems and we have more talent and flexibility.
C’mon now Hofer. I’m not that bad.
The 49ers have gone through a nuclear winter over the past 8 horrible years. Players have come and gone but one constant remains – Alex Smith. Fair or not he will always be linked with the worst period of the franchise’s history.
And admit it – you chuckled a little.
btw – the wine tasting was a disaster. We had a Bink Syrah and a Chiarito from a winery I can’t remember. Both had the complexity of a Fetzer merlot. Blah. Totally blah. $50 down the drain. I am not happy.
MSC, I knew you could take it. Your comment was funny (but there are the agenda guys that take you seriously) so I had to throw the tim/neal thing at you. jk
Is papa Stan or onelame Chris Crockett? That is the question!
Wow someone else feels the exact same way I do. I know longer waste my time debating Alex. I love the sport of football but this blog has turned into a bunch of rambling of so called fans on both sides of the issue. They hide behind their computers calling each other names. The sad thing is when Matt ran this blog it was an okay place to debate. Thats the problem when you have a young man in charge, doesnt have the ability to understand whats right and whats wrong. When you all decide to talk football let me know.
I was thinking, what other QB could I compare Alex’s past season to and I came up with David Garrard’s 2007 season, 18 touchdowns 3 interceptions. Garrard was also viewed as a game manager with a good set of wheels as I recall.
Thank you Grant for getting rid of the nonsense.
Still waiting for your fan mock Andrew.
By the time I finished a mock draft next years would be coming out. It’s 9:27 pm in India and I’m waiting for the Doral Open to come on at 11pm. I’ll make a mock draft (in no specific order) of the people I read on this site, with a couple of comments.
msclemon67-smart
hoferfan67-a good guy
dse494everxel-all 49er fan
razoreater
ninermind
23jordon
adam707-I was born at 7:07
fesnyc- was born in nyc
jack hammar -tells it like it is
49ergal- couldn’t leave you out
oregoniner -once lived in oregon
nickrow
elguapo-real fan
coachakeemraheebsmolasumyaweed- I don’t know why??
Grant – for keeping the whole thing together
Sorry if I left anyone out but that’s my mock draft. Thanks everyone for posting and go Niners.
Mock indeed.
@Andrew
I’m honored to be on your fan mock draft :)
Thanks for the shout out Andrew.
: – )
again whats the big deal w will kick 3,000 field goals who are you people
Associated press reports Randy Moss is flying in for a tryout with the 49ers.
And I hope he flys right out! Team player, Never Quits, Up-side, Positive attitude, Selfless, These seems to be qualities Balke and JH look for, Does Moss have any of these:? What is the point of this move, Other then Intell in case he is signed by some one else. I personally would rather have robert meachum of the saints.
Yes ,surprising development to mind as well.I can only imagine what having him around someone like Crabtree or one of the the drafted rookie WR’s we will pick might do.
Not a Moss fan but, if there was ever a year to sign him, this would be the year. He’s not gonna be a problem in a comeback year! I read his workout with the Saints was “off the charts”
Grant, I like the job you’re doing. I’m an older 49er fan (61 in a week0 and I like a younger observer’s perspective. Also you seem to know a lot about football. Keep learning and keep up the good work. Re: Alex. Chances of him returning to the 49ers? 99%. The 1% is in case he is mentally deragned (which I don’t think he is). Or he’d have to be VERY upset about something. I mean, he’s been through frustration and bad coaching and losses and fans booing for years and when he FINALLY gets top coaching and is QBing a TOP team and is about to start his second year under the same offensive coordinator for the FIRST time …… he leaves????? Over some extra money?? (when he’s already been paid tens of millions and will no doubt get tons more from the 49ers) If he leaves now, I’d say good riddance, cause something would be very wrong with this guy.
Alex Smith will be most be likely be going back to the Niners with his head bow down and in shame, he realizes that the other teams in the NFL donot think he is a elite QB, even though Harbaugh called him that to build up his confidence in his fragile head, he was just pulling Alex little chain, he will be with the team for maybe two years top, and Kaep will take over. You Smithers have have won the battle maybe but not the war, because Harbaugh and Balke don’t want your boy toy man crush for another 5 years.
It won’t matter who the QB is in the future. Fans will dislike the starter and will fight tooth and nail that the backup or practise squad guy is a diamond in the rough and just needs a chance. The debate should be who is the next Nate Davis?(I don’t mean to bash ND who, hopefully, has a sweet career started somewhere, be it in football and elsewhere)
Wow when the season was going and we were in the playoffs I don’t recall reading bad post about Alex Smith. Yeah there were the usual fans un happy with him but they always will be even if Smith helps this team win a SuperBowl.
We are all expressing our opinions but if you choose a player over the team then you are a not a true fan of this 49er organization period. I could care less who plays as the QB as long as the coaching staff and management has the full confidence in their ability to take us to the promise land. Jim and Trent we trust. GO NINERS
Well said, Chicago.
agreed
Randy Moss workout scheduled for 49ers on Monday. Will be arriving today. Intriguing
YOU-SOB..if I hadnt waited to finish breakfast…well,2nd!
Actually 3rd look above!
Someone up above already posted it. Beat ya by more than an hour! lol
Grant couldnt be more wrong..Smith is better? He’s one good season in seven. Sanchez-graduated early- has TWO conference finals already in three seasons. And he has the handicap of a coach who advertises his wife on Porn sites with fetish video’s. uh,if you thought Smith had it bad with Nolan and Singeltary..
But,I know the media imitates itself…just like “at the end of the day” is beaten to death, “Mark Sanchez cant play QB” is the same monkey say,monkey repeat.
Sanchez is a turnover machine and a Trojan.
What was Alex’s T.O. ratios,his ratings,his accomplishments for SIX years?..your youth shows how soon you forget..
Lets not forget-Sanchez,perfect health. Smith? bum shoulder..
Come on Grant,
Sanchez is much better then Smith , do you think for one second that Smith could of lasted more then 2 seasons in NY, before the media and and the fans put pressure on the ownership, to dump him.
“Sanchez is much better then Smith”
What are you smoking and where could i get some. HAHA. You clearly dont understand football if you believe that statement.
Haha, Sanchez sucks. The 2 championship years wasn’t him getting them there. Had alot of dropped int’s. The year(last year) they finally had to rely on him a little more, he showed his true colors. Why do you think Holmes is so mad? AS is way better…not even close. That is funny tho!
WHAT and it was Smith not Harbaugh who created this years 49er success? ..in Smiths seventh year?
And -when Moss see’s Alex cant reach him for the deep pass?…Smith is a sulk inducing QB for Moss.
Hmmm! I thought Alex always over threw on the deep ones.
Over, AND under..I always said, to Alex the deep vertical is just a hail Mary.
Alex cant always have VD down the middle…
Randy Moss workingbout for the Niners on Monday. Just heard it on yahoo sports radio!! The Niners would actually sign Randy Moss and think he could co-exist with Alex Smith. That combo doesn’t make sense to me. Are we getting a new QB to play with Moss? CK deep to Moss. That would be interesting. Josh Johnfon to Moss? Hmmm.
The best scenario would be Manning to Moss. That would be Nice!!! Yeah, I’m still wanting Manning. I’ll settle for Johnson.
@ Jordan,
Would love Moss to be on the team but still would like a couple of young big ass receivers, thru the draft or the free agent market. Let’s hope the money that we might save from Smith could be free cap money to improve the team.
Doesn’t take a good QB to throw the ball up in the air. Which is all you need to do with Moss.
Don’t know Jordan,
I would think if the money is right he would go with the Saints, it is inside stadium, that is where he did all of his damage, and then you have Brees, enough said about him.
23…. There is no way moss picks smith over brees. Coming out of retirement to a juggernaut offense or a 29th ranked offense. Which would you choose? If its for the money. Then I see sf having a better chance, but what would that say about him really wanting to win? I don’t like it. Rather have TO. At least he wants to win and puts in 100 percent. My first choice of course is V JAx. Man he would help out big time.
MM reported this ..
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/Smith-visits-Cardinals-facility-expects-?blockID=667518&feedID=5936
So much for your 40% prediction.
That sucks but it just shows that the BRASS , does not have the confidence in Smith, in what Harbaugh called a elite QB, also Espn report’s that Manning is down to two teams which is Denver and the Cards, not as high on Miami as once thought. If the Cards get Manning along with Fitzerald, that would be a frighting combination.
MB reported smith saying the same thing yesterday. A little late with this one.
Sorry NinerMD
I have a life, and not a Full time reporter.
Come on Matt!
That was a horrible title for the story. It implies something that it clearly wasn’t.
The Cardinals rolled out the red carpet for Peyton today according to NFL Network. The owner, GM, a couple of other team executives met with Manning for 4+ hours. The Cardinals are not pulling any punches and realize the importance of having an elite QB (remember how the signing of Warner catapulted them to a Super Bowl contender?) .
Manning is going to sign with the Cardinals. I said it last week and Hofer kept telling me that they wouldn’t pay the money because of the Kolb contract. Arizona is due to pay Kolb a large roster bonus before or on March 17th. If not, he’s cut and he’s a free agent.
I’m thinking that arizona gets Manning and cuts Kolb. That is what I said last week and what I believe nOw. Manning is meeting with Wisenhunt as I type this comment. Manning to Arizona. Not good news.
If he has choice between AZ and MIA he will choose MIA. Its already been clearly stated he desires to stay in the AFC but would come to NFC if he has to. Plus he will look at which team has a better defense, which is Miami. But AZ plays in a dome and that will be appealing to him. I think a better fit would be Miami though, they seem more fit to win now if they get Peyton, and thats the main thing he will be looking at
The latest report from ESPN is Bronco’s and Cards, my guess he will sign with the Cards.
Miami’ defense is about the same as arz in stats like ppg and sacks. And arz had a first year defensive coord. If you remember they got really hot by the 3rd quarter of the season. Arz defense will be better than Miami’ next year. Their o-line on the other hand is pathetic. I am sure manning will be looking at what they are doing about that.
Mortensen on ESPN is citing unnamed sources as saying Peyton is favoring Denver ahead of Az and seems to think Miami is behind Az, and that Seattle hasn’t been able to schedule an interview yet.
Just jabber at this point.
I’m just praying it is not AZ. I like PM, he’s one of my favorite players in the game and if he were to become a Cardinal i would have to root against him every single game. But DEN also is a good choice, they made the playoffs with the worst throwing QB in NFL history, will Peyton they would contend without a doubt.
Jordo, why are you fabricating what I said?!!
That’s not what I said. Let me jog your memory, I said I hope AZ does sign PM it will set them back 5+ years because again they will be looking for a QB long term. Signing PM is a band-aid approach. He’ll give a team a couple of years but no guarantee for playoffs.
Arizona is currently $16 million over the cap. Even cutting Kolb won’t give them enough space to sign Manning.
I’m thinking it might end up being the Broncos. Colts’ fans insist that Manning has a gentleman’s agreement with Irsay not to sign in the AFC South (I don’t read a lot of Colts’ news so I have no idea if that has any basis in fact) and he has declined to meet with the Seahawks and Dolphins.
On Broncos’ blogs the Tebowmaniacs are freaking out. It’s quite amusing.
@msc
I hope it is the Broncos.
Can’t stand “Tebowmania” and it would be cool for the Dolphins to lose out once more.
That Dolphin QB started coming on in the last half as well. Now, they would have to tuck their tails and ask for him to be their QB after failing to land PM.
Looks like MR. Smith does not have alot of options, according to the Merc read, just shows no one else is interested and the Harbaugh and Balke have him by his you know what. http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2012/03/09/alex-smiths-options-shrink-with-redskins-jets-moves/
Thatwas a given. Idk why they wouldn’t even contact manning to put more pressure on smith and force that price to drop more. Even though they say they’re not interested. Smith and his agent are going to have to crack eventually! Monday will be the day! You heard it here thx to my insider unknown source.. ;-)
He has no other place to go, maybe the Seahawks.
I agree with Cam. AS will sign a deal similar to MSanchez. I also agree with Grant, AS is better than Sanchez.
AS has options. He could go to Sea, AZ, Clev, Jags, Mia, Denv, etc. Interesting thing is JH’s legacy is making AS a top QB after everyone threw him under the bus. Stay tuned…
@ Hoffer.
The Niners are not treated Smith as a top QB, with the 3 year deal which just shows you Smithers, he is just ordinary and the other teams in the other teams in the league don’t think he is so hot, also Hoffer I doubt that he has all of those choices, he actually just has one which is the Niners, if he does go elsewhere holding a clipboard, are you going to leave us Niner fans and root for Smithy?
Oh poor Neal, when the contract is signed reported by the press, call your buddy and mentor Jordo, the two of you can have a sobfest! LOL
No freakin way is Smith going to get Sanchez contract, what the hell are you drinking, the Niners don’t have to negotiate anymore with Smith, because he has no where to go.
Hof your on drugs if you think smith is getting a big payday! He has no leverage. Him and his agent will crack tomorrow. We have options smith doesn’t.
MD, who said a huge contract? It will be a contract amicable to both parties. He has plenty of leverage. There were 12 teams that inquired about PM. He will sign with one and the others will be looking to improve. JH and AS will show us last year was not an anomaly. BTW, have you seen the JH QB Clinic on youtube?
Contract? Stay tuned…
Neil,
nice link. Can you imagine the GM for the Browns talking about making a big splash to their owner.
BROWNS GM, ” We are about to bring in a new QB. Don’t look at his stats though. In fact, don’t look at any of his stats or you’ll fire me for even mentioning his name to you. ”
“We will bring him in and we will go to the superbowl. We just have to figure out how to get our defense to be top three and we have to get a franchise record amount of turnovers. Oh and we need a good field goal kicker. Our new strategy will be to have our kicker be our leading scorer. Don’t worry, it will work”.
BROWNS OWNER ” Is his third down percentage any good?”
GM “Uh, we can get him for less than $10 million a year, he’s a hard worker and he doesn’t have any drug problems.
Browns owner ” Where did he rank in TD’s last year?”
GM ” He’s a real hard worker and he doesn’t go to clubs. Really clean cut, he doesn’t wear a lot of bling or anything like that”
BROWNS OWNER “How about yardage. Did he come close to 5000 yards? It is a passing league now you know..”
GM Don’t worry. His team went 13-3 last year…..
Bay, if that comment was pointed to me you need to try harder. The bobbsey twins now have a groupie in Neal. lol
@Bay
That was hilarious dude
LMAO at Bay
That is hilarious, do you think Balke said that to Alex agent. Hoffer I thought that Prime Time and Claude balls were your mentor.
Moss would be a good fit. He can be a possession and an occassional deep threat on the offense. Moss would be an immediate upgrade on third downs and in the red zone.
My only concern (well actually more than one):
1. Will his heart be in it, or is his return based on a possible depleated bank account?
2. After being off for a year, can he still muster the skill and energy to carry him throughout a 16 (and playoffs) game season?
3. Can he be willing to put aside personal goals and be a team player?
4. Can Alex co-exist with a potential HOF type WR, or will he feel compelled to change some plays just to appease Moss thereby jeopardizing team chemistry?
5. Would he be willing (if he signs) to structure a contract based on his current status rather than on his past exploits?
If R.Moss can prove that he can cover these points, I’m in!
Moss would go to the Saints instead of the Niner’s if the money was right, comparing Brees to Smith is like comparing a Lobster to Spam.
To me-just looking at Moss,Is Harbaugh contemplating trading away Crabs man. Wouldnt get much..but if his time is up with Harbaugh-its up.
Is my idea of the Niners not have MC on their opening day roster seem quite so silly to many of you now?
Yes DS, it is still as silly as before. Good to see that your anti-Crabtree agenda is still strong as ever.
@Jack
So Stan is a GENIUS when he says it.
And, I am silly when I say it.
Ok. That makes no sense at all. But sometimes things don’t in life.
What would you do Jack if MC was dropped from the team come opening day?
Correct DS, Stan is a GENIUS, you, um not so much.
Well DS, let’s take a closer look at your question.
And please allow me if I may to use Alex Smith to parallel my response.
1. Like Alex, Crabtree has played under different OC.’
2. Like Alex, Crabtree was and has been hampered by injuries.
3. Like Alex, Crabtree has improved to the point of being our #1. WR.
4. Like Alex, Crabtree is a competitor who wants to succeed.
5. Like Alex, Crabtree has had his ‘boneheaded’ moments.
And to answer your question more directly; Like Alex, Crabtree does NOT need to be on the team for the team to succeed. Harbaugh has created a culture of success with his system, period.
Under B.Walsh’ system, even ‘backup’ QB’ found success if Montana was out because of injury.
DS asks, “What would you do Jack if MC was dropped from the team come opening day?”. I would be surprised for a minute and then cheer on whoever they have replaced him with.
See DS, the difference between you and me is that I don’t play good guy/bad guy with the players. When they are wearing a SF 49ers uniform they are all my favorites.
@AES
MC is not near AS.
MC did not catch any game winning TD’s. AS threw them. One “clutch” perfect pass which had it been thrown anywhere else, the Nines lose in Detroit. And once more in the Saints game with the TD pass Eric Davis was calling before AS even released it.
Why is it that MC never gets open in big moments? DW and VD did this past season. MC?
MC blamed everybody but himself for his pathetic title game performance. AS along with every other player blamed themselves and not others.
MC loved the game/Niners so much, he chose to admire it from the sidelines sitting 4 games out due to contract negotiations. AS loved the Niners so much, he ran a Camp for a team he was not even a player on.
MC is not earning anywhere near his pay. Look at a lot of the WR’s in the league. MC makes a lot more, and does a lot less than almost all the top WR’s. Look at what AS made and what he produced. The better money was spent on AS this year.
Your improve every year thing is a joke. His rookie season was his best and his 2nd year he could be blamed a lot for the Int’s and loses that team suffered. Look at the stats to see his great improvements. Look at his games to see how many great impact plays he has made from year 1 to year 3.
MC was drafted onto a team many experts thought to be a playoff team. And they had a winning record before he started. Check it out. When he came in, the Niners were under 0.500. So, his great rookie season he made no impact on getting the team to win more games. The Niners went 5-7 after MC signed. They were 3-1 before. How can one say his presence was so great for the team?
AS by comparison was drafted by the worst team in my memory. Of any team.
And, in year 3 he played horribly for 7/8 quarters in the 2 most important games of his life. Then topped it off blaming others for his lack of skill.
Sorry. He is not an impact play maker (evidence of team being 3-1 before signing MC, and 5-7 after and MC in year 2 not being where he was supposed to be in the start of the season that resulted in many of AS’s Int, to year 3 where VD was the big hero getting open at critical times.).
And MC is not a team player. No team player goes 1 catch in the title game and blames others for it. Heck, a team player can catch 10 balls for 200 yards and lose and still point the finger at himself for not doing enough to win.
Why is it that MC is a guarantee fixture on this team for year 4 again? And AS is in the same boat for all he did? No. That is not remotely fair.
@Jack
:See DS, the difference between you and me is that I don’t play good guy/bad guy with the players. When they are wearing a SF 49ers uniform they are all my favorites.”
You clearly never saw my posts about what I thought about AS when we drafted him, or when Hill took over.
If AS was not a Niner, I could care less. As long as he wore that uniform,then I cared. The difference between MC and AS is that I know AS cares. I don’t think MC does.
The Niners cupboard of WR’s is nearly bare. I don’t see Crabtree going anywhere, this year anyway.
And when is Lowell going to do a Mike Montgomery choked this year post?..2 chances in his last three games to make the NCAA’s,nail down a spot ..and he lost both.
DS, all you’ve succeeded in doing with your long discourse is ‘slanting’ the numbers to justify your ‘hate’ of MC, in the same way you swing the pendulum to ‘slant’ your over-the-top view of Alex.
Are you refuting the points I made? Are you saying that there is no truth to any points?
I could also write a long dissortation on Alex’ shortcomings, but he has been selectively ‘covered’ by the ‘bad coaching’ era.
DS, exactly how many times was MC thrown to in the championship game?
Of those passes, how many of those had significant ramifications?
But let’s back-track prior to the championship game.
Did MC catch a TD in the playoffs against the Saints?
Did MC make some considerably great catches on poorly thrown passes by Alex?
Did coach Harbaugh refute yours and other posts on this blog in saying that Crabtree is a TEAM player?
And to add to my previous points; Like Alex, Crabtree will be our starting WR in 2012!
Big time players make big time plays in big games.
VD did it. AS did it.
MC has not. You did not point out one instance where he made the key play.
Just to help you out, I will. That great pass/catch in Seattle. Other than that, can you think of one?
“DS, exactly how many times was MC thrown to in the championship game? Of those passes, how many of those had significant ramifications? ”
He was thrown to the same number of times as VD. 5. Don’t fault VD for making the most of his 5 opportunities. And I don’t get your “significant ramification bid”. The fact that you can’t recall any is a sign that MC did not get open, and was not doing his job. If he had, then he would have been a factor. Also, a big note is that VD was double virtually all game long. On the one time he was not, he made the Giants pay with a TD. On another occasion, when the safety was late getting over because AS looked him off, VD scored another TD.
And MC was single covered all game long. VD single covered once = TD. Safety late coming over 1 time = 1 TD for VD. MC single covered all game long = 0 TD, only 1 catch. If MC played like VD did, the Niners would have blown the Giants out big time.
If you can’t see the difference, then I don’t’ know what to do.
And , I stated many times MC had a good 1st quarter against the Saints. Hence the 7/8. The remaining 7, did you even know if he was in the game? AS had more TD passes than MC had catches. For both games I believe. And MC almost had more drops than he had catches in the playoffs. That is not slanting anything. That is a sad fact.
JH won’t say anything bad about any player. The fact that so much speculation is around the Niners getting a WR and not looking to enter the PM sweepstakes or the retard sweepstakes with Washington should tell you where JH values MC vs. AS. AZ needs a compliment WR to LF. You don’t see them making a move for Wallace though do you? Or VJax or any other big name WR? Why not? Because if you have your big name WR, you don’t need to look for another one. MC is overpaid. Did you look at the salaries of other comparable WR’s who get paid less or equal to MC?
And JH hardly sounded complimentary towards MC when asked about MC’s behavior at the press conference on Monday following the game.
And you failed to tell me what measuring stick you are using to claim MC has gotten better each year.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12563/michael-crabtree
In most categories, MC is down from his rookie year. And, what big impact plays has MC had?
You failed to answer my questions AES. Why is that? Not one answer. That is usually a sign that somebody does not have one.
DS94everXev says:
March 11, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Big time players make big time plays in big games.
VD did it. AS did it.
According to your theory the team should only suit-up VD and AS. If i’m not mistaking, it wasn’t to long ago that people on this posts was calling for VD’ and AS’ head on a platter.
You often pass yourself as a TEAM and not soley an Alex supporter (which can debated) and then you continue to bring up Crabtree’ shortcomings while ‘selectively’ overlooking those of other players.
Everytime you spew your Crabtree venom you invalidate your TEAM position.
You’re either a TEAM first fan or not DS, if you made half a case in defense of Crabtree like you do for Alex, you might tip the scales towards being a TEAM first fan. But when it comes to Crabtree, I guess in your case, the buck stops there.
My how ‘agendas’ reign around here.
A team guy can recognize where an improvement is needed AES.
If not, then why/how does a GM improve the team? Are GM’s not TEAM guys.
LF is a team guy. But the guy is not stupid either. He knows his team needs improvements. Whether he is accurate or not in choosing which guy will get the job done, that is up for debate.
And, could you honestly tell me who else the Niners passing game has besides VD and AS throwing him the ball that makes defenses worry? If so, then you are not evaluating talent fairly. Look at what the Giants did. That is proof. Not my words. Or your words. Or anybody elses words. The actions that the Giants took tells you the answer. We don’t worry at all about the WR’s. We take our chances with our very average #1 CB against MC, and really concentrate on VD. We do that well, and we win.
By the way AES, I am not the only person stating that MC is not the guy we need. Quite a few writers/ex-players have said it.
And, you wrote yet another post without answering my question AES. How hard is it for you to answer my question about MC making impact plays or not? He either has or hasn’t. Why do you evade the question so? Have I evaded any of yours?
TEAM guys do not have the requirement of being stupid, blind and deaf. TEAM guys don’t blame everybody but themselves for 1 catch in the title game.
And I never said VD and AS were the only two. I was talking about the passing game. FG and KH both showed up as well. As did our OL for the most part. Heck, even KW made some nice plays returning kicks he actually caught and held onto. There was 1 segment of the team that really stank. And it was not on the ST or Defensive side. It was not the QB (2 TD’s 0Int) or TE side (2 TD’s). Or the RB’s who both teared up the Giants, especially Hunter.
Know who that leaves? Know who is the leader of that segment? Know who gets the blame if that segment didn’t produce? Know who didn’t accept the blame?
I do.
“In most categories, MC is down from his rookie year.” Seriously DS? Did you even bother looking at that link before pasting it? The only category that is down is avg yards per catch. Everything else is up.
Your MC hate agenda is beginning to reach Jordanesque proportions.
Hammer,
Why do you continue to use my name in your posts? I don’t understand your obsession. Every time I see your post, it includes my name. I don’t get that. Whats your issue?
You’re becoming just like claude. You don’t post football. You just look for posts to attack. Are the the blog resident football expert. Why don’t share that great knowledge instead of keep your head up Sd’s azz.
Hey Jordo, How is that Natural Lite going down today? I only use your name in posts when trying to let someone know that they have begun let their hate for a player blur reality.
Don’t post about football? C’mon son, when you decide to not make every post about how bad AS is let me know. Until then, I will just continue to laugh at you make a clown and azz out of yourself, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I think that should just about include most of the content of a typical Jordan post.
If you want to talk football, bring it on, I would love to take you to school.
Did you actually look at it Jack, or did you just go on an emotional rant for nothing?
What numbers were you looking at?
Catches:
2009: 48
2010: 55
2011: 72
TD’s:
2009: 2
2010: 6
2011: 4
Average/catch:
2009: 13.0
2010: 13.5
2011: 12.1
Yards:
2009: 625 in 11 games
2010: 741 IN 16 GAMES
2011: 874 in 15 games
The only thing you care about are yards. What was MC catch:drop rate? It was pretty low, that much I know.
Receptions are up, but keep in mind the Niners WR core this year was decimated and he was the only one left. Yards are up. Again, not by a huge amount.
And, for some reason drops are not counted. But last year sure didn’t impress me. And drops are drive killers.
And, what big time plays did he make Jack? You presented nothing to the case of MC should stay. You sure didn’t look at the stats and you didn’t bother telling me what big plays he made. Last year, or ever.
Can somebody please tell me where he improved in his stats?
Did he make the big plays when needed?
Did he accept full responsibility like every other player did for losing the game and place blame on himself?
The answer to every question there is “NO”.
DS, I know you hate the guy, but please explain how these stats show a decrease. Catches: up each year, TD’s: about even when you consider AS only threw 17 last year, Yards: up each year, the only decrease is average per catch.
If you could find the catch:drop rate stat I would like to see it. This is a stat that I keep seeing brought up with no factual data to back it up.
Did he play big in the playoffs? No way, and I have said that repeatedly when you bring it up. He killed the drive right before the end of the first half against NO with the two drops.
In the championship game he didn’t drop any passes, and the others that were thrown in his direction were one hoppers when AS was escaping the pocket.
He will be back because he has shown improvement each year, despite missing camp with the foot injury, his teammates like him, and by attending the offseason program this year he should be able to build up his rapport with AS.
@jack
You don’t know what the word hate means do you?
I don’t hate the guy. i have never written anything that could be construed as hating. I don’t think he is anywhere near as good as we need him to be, and that he is a waste of a plenty good roster spot on a team with lots of talent now.
You also don’t know what statistically relevant improvement means do you? To say something improved you can’t just look at the raw data. 800 yards vs. 820 yards and say something improved based on that alone. Besides, there was no real improvement from year 1 to year 3
Another way to look at it on a per game basis:
Receptions/game
2009 in 11 games: 48/11 = 4.36/game
2010 in 16 games: 55/16 = 3.4/game
2011 in 15 games: 72/16 = 4.5/game
There was a drop in catches per game between year 1 and year 2, so he got worse, not better and a rise in catches between year 1 and year 3 of 0.14catches/game. Is 0.14 catches/game that significant? He only got back to where he was as a rookie. He didn’t get any better at all.
TD’s:
2009 in 11 games: 2/11= 0.18 TD/game
2010 in 16 games: 6/16 = 0.375 TD/game
2011 in 15 games: 4/15 = 0.27TD/game
So, again, there is no steady improvement at all. In fact there is a drop in the one thing that matters most, scoring. Where is the significant improvement here Jack?
Average/catch:
2009 in 11 games: 13.0
2010 in 16 games: 13.5
2011 in 15 games: 12.1
Again, there is a slight rise from year 1 to year 2, and a larger dropoff between year 2 and year 3. Where is the improvement here Jack?
Yards:
2009: 625 in 11 games = 56.81 yards/game
2010: 741 IN 16 GAMES = 46.31 yards/game
2011: 874 in 15 games = 58.21 yards/game
So, there was a nice dropoff from year 1 to year 2. And then a slight rise from where he was in year 1 to year 3 of just under 2yards/game. Is that significant to you Jack?
So, tell me again how MC improved on a statistical basis?
So, tell me again where MC made impact plays or plays that don’t really show up in the stats that much from year 1 to year 3?
So, tell me how MC matured on a personal front and took responsibility from year 1 when he chose not to come to work, and when he did, the team started losing more. To year 3 when he chose to be the only player to not point the finger at himself for the loss. When, he sucked the whole time?
So, on the 2 things that I look at to judge a player, or what most people look at, MC did not improve greatly in stats (what most people look at for improvement), impact plays or personality MC did not get better at all.
On the personality front MC went in Year 1 to not loving the team/football enough to not play in 4 games. In year 2 he thought he didn’t need to practice and subsequently there was a nice fight between VD and MC. In addition, AS was saying that he needs to practice with his receivers or bad things will happen. Well, bad things happened. Most of them when targeting MC. And in year 3 MC chose to blame everybody but him for his performance. Too bad. He made it all that way, and i was really starting to like the guy. I wasn’t happy with his performances, but at the very least he matured. Until that interview.
DS, I never said significant improvement, just that he improved.
It doesn’t surprise me that the numbers on a per game average were slightly less in 2010 given the fact that Raye was fired early, and Johnson stunk so bad he just got Neheisel fired too. Plus for someone who only cares about TD’s did you notice that 2010 was actually his best year in that category?
As for the personality issue, I have no problem with it. Everyone is different and I accept that we all aren’t perfect. Unfortunately for you MC doesn’t fit into that perfect little box for you.
This is a TEAM game right DS? Every time you mention MC that TEAM mantra that you espouse to protect AS is eroded even more.
Take me to school?? I think you got me mixed up with the low hanging fruit that DS gives you. I don’t hate Smith. I hate his game. I hate what little game you have as well. You wouldn’t know hate if it slapped yo weak azz in the face. I know vanilla when I read it. Keep trying to educate DS. That may help you with yo blog cred. Yeah right!
jack
There is statitical improvement, then there isn’t.
And if you want to say somebody improved with their numbers, then the improvements have to be statistical.
I am not going to buy the notion that MCs numbers improved because Jack said so. If you were in a drug company and said that, you would be laughed at then fired for incompetency. People keep claiming the same thing “MC has improved every year.” Well, statistically that is false.
But, I don’t much care about stats in sports. Football in particular. So, I look at the non-stat things a lot more. One nonstat thing I like are impact plays. Impact plays are not a stat that is followed. Impact plays though win games.
So, I am asking you and AES what/how many impact plays has MC had, and how did those numbers go up each year.
Nobody bothers answering the question because they don’t have an answer which proves their ideas correct. If they did, then they would have pointed out play after play of MC making an impact play. That is how you know you winning an argument. When you ask relevant questions that are ignored that would prove your point correct.
And, like you, I don’t remotely care if others here like/agree with me. I am here to discuss football and what I think about it. The correct answer is not the one which is the most popular. In fact, the most popular one is usually wrong.
Yes it is a TEAM game. If you don’t pull your own weight, you are not on the team. You keep obsessing about me saying it is a team game. When did I ever say we shouldn’t look to get better? If there is a better player to be had and especially if he comes at the same or lower price, you should go with that player. JH said so himself. If you are not improving, you are getting worse.
“This is a TEAM game right DS? Every time you mention MC that TEAM mantra that you espouse to protect AS is eroded even more.”
AS believes in the team. MC does not. Guess who I am going to support? Not the guy who places himself above the team every chance he gets. And, to repeat myself, I don’t care what you think about my mantra. You never believed in it anyway. So your opinion of it matters not.
I said at the start of the year to give AS and MC 1 more year. AS did what I wanted. MC did not. I am fair. You weren’t around, so you really should stay out of it.
Oh Jordo, It is sad that you don’t realize that the low hanging fruit is actually you. You bring nothing to the table other than your silly wise cracks about AS.
If you really want to talk football, and not throw names then bring it. Come at me with something that does not involve Alex Smith and lets go. Unfortunately with you the game begins and ends there.
Hi, my name is Jack, and I am a 49er-aholic. DS, Thank you for taking the time to go through all of those numbers and point out the slight drop off of 1 catch and 10 yards per game in 2010, when tweedle dee and tweedle dumb were running the offense. Those are very significant numbers I guess.
You got me, because I didn’t care enough to sit down and do the calculations. Does that make you feel better?
You don’t like Crabtree because he doesn’t stand up to your criteria, but the only people that need to like him are those in the locker room at 4949 Centennial Blvd. and based on his teammates comments they have a much different opinion of him then you.
Regardless, when the season starts Michael Crabtree will be starting at wide receiver for the 49ers, and you will be stuck having to cheer him on.
VD was a probowl TE with AS as the QB with those HC’s Jack. And PW and JS were pretty good as well.
Just saying that it can be done.
And, you have no idea what was said behind closed doors. Fans and media never should. That is the way it is supposed to be. I doubt MC’s teammates were cheering him on though or his coaches clapping when he said what he said after the Giants game.
If I were to complain about a teammate, I would be smart enough to do it in in private. Not in front of the media. Guess I am smarter than MC. Somehow I don’t feel any better about myself knowing that.
If people want to talk how MC improved every year with his stats, then I will challenge them with stats. That is what you do.
If you want to talk about how MC has improved every year in the non-stat things (the ones I actually care about) then I won’t talk about stats. Ill talk about those other things.
You opened up the can (stats). I just filled it with so many worms (statistical analysis) you can’t get the lid back on, and you’re scared mom and dad will find you with a half filled can of worms.
It was your choice from the very beginning Jack. You kept wanting to talk about stats and how they have improved. Do you have any non-stat things to support your argument? By the way, the argument isn’t really is MC going to come back. It is “should he, and at what price and in what role?”
@Jack/AES
By the way….
As of now, MC is the 5th highest paid player on the Niners (will go down to 6th when DG signs, and likely 7th when AS signs).
The players he is behind (total salary numbers) include:
1. Patrick Willis
2. Justin Smith
3. Ahmad Brooks
4. Vernon Davis
5. Michael Crabtree
Do you think MC is the 5th best player on the Niners? Or 8th assuming DG and AS sign for more?
I don’t think MC is anywhere near the top 15 skilled players on the Niners roster.
If you call NFL a business, then how can one justify paying a top 5 salary to a guy who is no where near top 10-15 skilled players on your team? That is bad business. And bad business decisions result in the business going bad, not good.
Please justify MC being on the team looking at the financial side of things now. How much production is coming out of the 5the highest paid player compared to 6-10
6. Anthony Davis
7. Frank Gore
8. Joe Staley
9a. Spencer (won’t be on the team)
9b Issac Sopagaa
10.Ray McDonald
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/
DS, I just said you were correct on the statistics, I didn’t care to spend the time to break them down. Congratulations on being the Swami of the Calculator.
Not that it would matter to you but here is a little piece from an interview that one of his teammates, Carlos Rogers did on NFL Radio, ” One a closing note, Tim Ryan asked Rogers his impressions of wide receiver Michael Crabtree, and Rogers responded: “The guy has got unbelievable hands and a great skill set. … He’s going to be an unbelievable player. At the same time, we need another receiver to complement him.”
This comes from a Pro Bowl CB that played with him, and went up against him every day in practice. Seems like he has respect in the locker room, and I will take his word instead of that of a street football warrior.
DS, Goldson is guaranteed at least $6. something due to being tagged, and like you said, if AS re-signs that would bump him to 7, depending on how FA turns out.
I predict that his production in 2012 will outmatch that of any other player on the list that he is above. Plus, c’mon Staley and Sopoaga? Really, they each has only 1 catch each this year ; )-
@Jack
Of course Carlos said that.
What was he supposed to say? The JH mantra is not put down the players/teammates. Carlos was following that mantra.
The fact CR said it does not mean he is wrong or that he is right. It means that CR is doing what he is supposed to do and stand up for his teammates. Can’t say the same about MC.
Kind of sounded to me like CR was suggesting that MC is not a #1 WR. I wonder what the PP says of needing to compliment LF in AZ. And, that is a lot of money for somebody who needs to be complimented. By comparison, the Giants don’t have a WR in the top 13 of players salaries.
Using Last Years Numbers:
Nicks counts (last year) $1.875 million against the cap.
Devin Thomas counted 1.23 million against the cap. Jerrel Jernigan counted 0.518 million against the cap.
Ramses Barden counted 0.666 million against the cap.
Victor Cruz counted 0.4 million against the cap. Michael Clayton counted 0.81 against the cap. Domenick Hixon counted 0.61 against the cap.
Dan DePalma counted 0.39 million against the cap.
Add them all up you get a grand total of $6.499 million dollars for ALL the Giants WR’s salary cap hit in 2011.
Compare that to MC’s cap hit of $5.734 million ($3.875 in base pay) and you tell me the Niners are getting a good deal.
Financially, are the Niners making out well?
Performance wise. Are the Niners making out well?
Is MC worth nearly as much as the whole Giants WR core?
I think “No, No, No”.
How do you reason out a “Yes, Yes, Yes?”
AES,
You spoke nothing but the truth. Very well said. You’re debating withan Alex Smith fan, not a Niner fan. Crabtree got semi targeted on at least 5 plays in that game. On the one catch he did make, the ball was poorly thrown. It was high and by the time he came down with the high throw, he had no running room. He had a pass batted down at the line of scimmage that was headed to Crabs on the 1st series of the game. We know Crabtree was open on that slant, because Smith wouldn’t have thrown it to him if he weren’t. We also know the 2 balls in the 4th quarter on the right sideline were thrown at Crabtree’s feet. He was coming back to the ball for at least a 5-9 yard gain, but Smith threw one out of bound, he threw the other at Crabtrees feet.
If you have the game on video. Look at that series, late in the 4th quarter. When crabtree has the 2nd ball thrown at his feet. He turns to JH, (because the play happened right in front of him) in an attemt to complain and JH sets his arms as if to tell Crabtree to calm down. I have the game on DVD. This sequence is fact.
*Like Alex, who will be our starting QB,
Smith has already peaked. He match lady years #s but he won’t blow them away. Also he got lucky with more than a few fumbles. The d is great but it won’t keep getting 4th qrtr picks. The 49ers are better off going with K and his upside
Think about it: Who is a better evaluator of QB talent than Jim Harbaugh? He played big-time football. He coached the num 1 qb in the upcoming draft (Luck). Don’t you think he knows the gap between Smith’s talent and the good-great ones? Remember all of the frowns on Harbaugh’s face when Smith made bone-headed plays? The reason Harbaugh limited Smith on plays and constantly encouraged him was because he knew he had to to what he could to keep Smith from sliding into a mini-depression when he made mistakes. Whoever signs Smith to big $ will feel just like the SF Giants the year after they signed Zito. I say let Smith go and take your chances…
The 9er org is using the RMoss tryout as a ploy. I’m starting to think they will now draft CFleener. They are letting the league know they are hunting for a WR but will laser focus on CFleener in the 1st round. Do *we* really think they are interested in RMoss based on the TEAM FIRST attitude? Fleener will be a major target in the RZ and in 3rd down conversion. What a ploy?!!
@hof
This ploy as you call it has no impact at all on whether Fleener is available for us or not in the draft.
I don’t get your point here hof. If there was one, please spell it out more for me.
Thanks.
Hofer,
This Smith contract is stating to destroy your brain cells. For the only time I may ever agree with BS on this blog. There is no reason the Niners need to put up a smoke screen to throw other teams out for a draft. Not this front office. This is not the BillWalsh era. There will be receivers there if we want one. Fleener’s pro day will tell us what we need to know about him.
I’m worried about you Hofer. Better call Alex. Im sure you have his cell number. Being on the propaganda payroll and all! lol
Jordo, you been right so many times…TSmith, DMcNabb, KKolb, etc, etc, I’m not too worried if *you agree* with me or not. Not a validation to have your endorsement. LMAO!
DS94everXev says:
March 11, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Can somebody please tell me where he improved in his stats?
DS, are you kidding???? Read your own posts.
Your Crabtree hatred is so blinding you are failing to comprehend your own words.
LOL.
MC will be here and so will AS. JH has a plan that the former HC’s didn’t understand. Stay tuned…
You may be right about that Hofer. One or both of them might be back this year. However, I think we can both agree that both of their days are numbered.
AS will be here for the long term. JH stated he is the long term QB. He has never been one to sugar coat words or say something without meaning it. JH chooses his words wisely. So yes I agree, MC may not be here for long but he will be here in 2012.
Really Hofer,
Then why isn’t he being offered a lOng term contract. Reading your stuff makes it more and more evident that being a 49er fan is a distant 2nd to being an Alex fan.
Hoffer,
You are in lalal land if your boy toy man crush was going to be in for the long haul, why is he treated with little respect with a 3 yr deal.
Neal, there is no right or wrong – we’ll find out soon enough one way or the other.
Hoffer,My guess is that Smith will stay, he has no other place to go, he will take the three yr deal with his tail between his legs. I wished their were alot of teams interested in Smith but only the Smithers and Smith agent think’s he is worth the big bucks.
@AES
Please try to read my 8:06 post. This is a very basic statistical analysis of his numbers. You need to learn to understand stats if you plan on saying things like “MC has improved every year.” Like games played having an impact on all those numbers and are a much better representation of what any player brings/does than overall stats (only looking at yards/receptions/etc).
For instance, a WR who was injured the first 14 games may have 2 200 yard games in a season, while another WR has 420 yards in 16 games. (average 26.25 yards/game). If you don’t pay attention to the games and only look at the yards (which virtually everybody does) that average is ignored, and you might think the 2 WR’s are equal. Clearly they are not equal at all when you look into it more.
All facts. No lies. Nothing stupid like AS can’t throw 40 yards crap. So, not really getting the “hate” deal from you.
MC has not improved on anything year to year on a per game basis. Not yards, catches, TD’s. And, he probably has just as many drops/attempt as he had before. Those stats are not available on NFL.com for some reason under stats, and that sucks.
And Eric Branch pointed out that MC barely had more catches than drops in the postseason. Not an encouraging sign the guy can deliver in the clutch. But, like I said, too bad drops are not an official stat.
@hof
Why keep MC around for 2012, but not 2013? The coaches and GM need to ask if MC will really improve that much more in 2012 compared to 2011. If they don’t, then why keep him for 2012 only to dump him in 2013 (his last contract year by the way)? They will save money by dumping him and open a roster spot simultaneously. Hopefully for an eager young WR who loves the game and not his shoes.
And if MC has a great 2013 season, how much does one consider the notion that he looked good in a contract year to get more money.
DS says, “Like games played having an impact on all those numbers…”. Funny thing DS is that his numbers in 2011 were better than 2010 and he played in one less game….
Move along with your agenda….no one else is even biting.
@jack
Do you have dyslexia?
MC’s stats went down in TD/game, average/catch.
The only thing that went up was yards/receptions. But when compared to 2009, it only went up like 2 yards/game. And MC was the only WR around the whole season. His receptions are about equal to his rookie year. He didn’t get better. He got back to where he was.
That is not substantial improvement Jack.
You guys have no clue how to read numbers at all. No clue at all if you think MC’s numbers improved.
SD, ?neam uoy od tahw
I never said substantial improvement. Move your silly little agenda on to someone else. Stan might agree with you. Talk to him about it.
@Jack
You got caught wanting to discuss numbers with somebody who knows numbers lot better than you and you want to find a way out of it while maintaining you are right. You are not. The stats bare that out.
If you want to say MC improved in non stat things, then that is fine. We can have that debate.
But, don’t try to pull your MC has improved every year statistically BS on somebody who actually knows stats. Because you are looking rather lost right now. You have nothing substantial at all to point at. Not one thing. MC has not improved in one category on a per game basis every year since his rookie year (only TD/game, and that is miniscule, and not statistically relevant). Maybe you are just realizing this, and you are acting like an alcoholic who is at the last step before admitting he was wrong.
DS94everXev says:
March 11, 2012 at 8:23 pm
@AES
“Please try to read my 8:06 post. This is a very basic statistical analysis of his numbers. You need to learn to understand stats if you plan on saying things like “MC has improved every year.” Like games played having an impact on all those numbers and are a much better representation of what any player brings/does than overall stats (only looking at yards/receptions/etc).”
DS, once again you allow your hatred of Crabtree to blind and contradict your own theory. How can honestly try to convince me that Crabtree has not improved while saying that VD has?
Since you seem to be weighing your case on stats and numbers, could you possibly say that VD’ numbers have improved? Have you seen VD’ stats since 2009? There’s been little to no improvement. So according to your premise, you need to conclude that VD’ has regressed rather then improved. Or can you justify (spin) those stats?
DS, clear your head and your heart of the hatred agenda towards Crabtree, it’s dulling your ability to think logically.
@AES
You know by now that I am the non-stat in football guy. But, if you want to say something like “MC has improved every year” while using numbers to prove it, then I will throw at you an analysis.
You are welcome to check the numbers yourself. Feel free to do so.
I don’t care about numbers very much at all. That is why I don’t remotely care about AS not throwing for 300 yards in every game, or any game. As long as AS wins it, I am cool.
And 6 comeback wins says he did his job. And in those 6 comeback wins, how many times do you remember MC making a big play? Once. In Seattle. That was it for me. Do you remember anymore?
I also said that if MC had somehow made that first down, especially a TD on his 1 catch, that all the other drops and non-catches would mean nothing. Big time players make big time plays in big time games. And if MC had done so, I wouldn’t have cared at all about the horrible play between the first quarter of the NO game and the 3rd quarter of the Giants game. A great play by MC right there, and the Niners go to the Super Bowl.
“Have you seen VD’ stats since 2009? There’s been little to no improvement. So according to your premise, you need to conclude that VD’ has regressed rather then improved. Or can you justify (spin) those stats?”
NO. I really don’t care about the stats, remember? Ask FDM/prime/anybody who has read my stuff the whole time I have been here and not hated me, and you will find that I am very consistent in my views on stats.
I don’t remotely care what stats VD was putting up. And, I did write many a post, as did many others (and most interestingly, nobody from any side defended VD that much. Our probowl TE was free to attack while our WR and QB were open game) asking about what was wrong with VD in the regular season.
If you have read my posts, you would also know that I don’t remotely care about the numbers you put up in the regular season, or all that much about how great you were either. To me, the regular season is just a long pre-season for the real competition in the playoffs. After all, why are the regular season games played if not to get into the playoffs and to get seeding?
Show up there (make a great play in a time of need to win the game), and that is what I will remember and judge you by. Don’t show up there, and I won’t care about your great accomplishments catching 15 passes for 250 yards against some second rate club you had in the regular season.
You are welcome to debate me on it. You won’t really change much since it is my opinion vs. your opinion. And I doubt I can change your opinion in return. But I am consistent on it. Which is something many people are not.
What have I been saying repeatedly lately? Big time players make big time plays in big time moments. That does not have a statistical category, now does it? Are you arguing that VD did not make those plays, and MC did, and somehow I am blind to it?
I said I would give MC one year. I did.
I said I don’t care about a players stats. I don’t. If you don’t believe me on that, then how can you think I support AS so much? If people want to say he improved and don’t talk about the stats or the non-stat stuff, then how exactly did he improve?
I said I want to see MC take responsibility for his actions/lack of actions. MC did not.
I said all post season, especially after the NO game that MC needs to show up big. That VD really saved his butt, and that MC needs to make the Giants pay for not respecting him. MC did not make them pay.
So, what I am saying is what I said I would say/do the whole time. Don’t blame me if MC can’t live up to what I said I needed to see him do. That was to be a #1 WR who can make the big play in big games in big moments. And he isn’t even close to being one or able to do so.
Sounds like you have the inside track on JH’s plan Hofe. Care to throw us inquiring minds a little bone. Afterall, you did say that Jerry Rice let you know he was being traded to the raiders before the official report. Not doubting you Hofe, I’m really interested in Harbaughs plan.
AES, think about it. I have. CFleener is the big bodied guy that NO and NE have at TE and have been successful with. This doesn’t discount DW, but CFleener is needed for RZ and 3rd down requirements.
I like Flenner but we need the threat to stretch the defense.
Never said that. What I said was in jest (sarcasm) AES to the AS comment. Didn’t mean to miss lead you. lol
Hofe,
If Fleener is the answer for our 3rd-dwn and red zone deficiencies i’m all in!
I have no problems with that. Whatever makes the team better now and in the future.
OABTW Hofe, thanks for the inside scoop.
lol
AES,
Hilarious!!
Hofer,
No more wine tonight bro!
It is hilarious how seriously this blog takes every comment. lol
Just my 2 cents but why are we searching for a red zone target when we have the 3rd best tight end in the leauge? Not only is davis a hell of a red zone target but exactly, can anybody say how many times smith gave him a chance down there? Are ppl on tgis blog suggesting smith loves davis except in the red zone? In my opinion, except for 2 cluct plays(lions game and saints game) smith was a below average red zon qb. imagine if akers doesnt lead the lead in scoring and half of his points were touchdowns. we would have won every game. dallas wouldnt have made it to o.t baltimore wouldnt have won and that payoff loss, would not have went to o.t either. and in my opinion, with our defense we would have dogg walked the pats. we need touchdowns not fied goals. So in the eyes n words of ppl who dont like thinking for theirselves il use the phrase,”harbaugh and balkee know more than me so ill trust them”. Thats true but its a garbage cop out. But ill say in my opinion we need a new qb. Not just a clean cut presidential candidate, but a hard nose decscion maker with prescion passing over 15 yards. i love my niners but imagine what harbaugh did with smith in a matter of weeks, give ck or another qb with more talent harbaugh for months and its title city. Everyone has their opinion and this one is mine. Go Niners
Good point nick. if we had that same mentality knowing we need an elite qb to win the big game. I tgink we are to stubborn to go after manning. oh well we will still beat them twice next year
Yeah my thoughts are you are an idiot and you only have this job because of your father although I don’t care for his column much more than I do yours. I am done reading anything you write. Your a young kid who is nearsighted and you have no idea what you are talking about. Take some notes from Branch and Barrows and Crumpacker.
CBS is reporting that Smith and the 49ers are working out the details on a contract.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/03/11/gameday-alex-smith-exclusive-we-are-working-out-the-details/
“SAN FRANCISCO (CBS 5) – San Francisco 49ers Quarterback Alex Smith told CBS5’s Kim Coyle tonight that reports of his demand for a five-year contract are “completely false,” and that he’s happy with the three year deal offered by the 49ers. Smith said his agent and the 49ers are working out the details and that he expects to sign a new contract with San Francisco.”
Guess that ends that then.