According to Matt Maiocco, Ahmad Brooks will count $2.85 million against the 49ers’ salary cap in 2012. For all the figures of Brooks’ deal, read Matty’s article here.
Just know that Brooks’ cap figures significantly increase in upcoming seasons, but in 2012 he’ll be a relative bargain.
Here’s how this affects free agency: Currently the Niners have about $23 million in cap space. If they cut Shawntae Spencer, then they’ll have roughly $26 million to spend. If they also cut Parys Haralson, a non-starter and a non-special-teamer, they’ll have roughly $29 million.
The Niners were able to reward their No. 1 free agent (Brooks) with a huge contract, but it’s back-loaded, so they get extra cap room now.
Why do they want extra cap room now?
Could it be they want to make a run at a top-tier wide receiver in free agency, like Mike Wallace or Vincent Jackson?
It’s obvious that the Niners’ biggest need is a deep threat on offense. They don’t have one. If they get one, they will be Super Bowl favorites. If they have the cap space, Jackson or Wallace could be a wise investment.
Here’s my prediction: The Niners will sign Dashon Goldson before free agency, like they did with Brooks. They’ll give Goldson roughly 5 years, $30 million, and the money will be back-loaded, too.
They’ll let Carlos Rogers test the market. In free agency, the Niners’ No. 1 priority will not be to re-sign one of their own players – it will be to sign Mike Wallace. Trent Baalke will be aggressive and get the best deep threat available, and that’s Wallace.
Signing Wallace would also cost the Niners their first-round pick, but so what? There’s no deep threat they could draft at pick 30 who’s as good as Wallace.
Alex Smith will wait to sign so that the Niners can make as competitive an offer to Wallace as possible. That’s how I see the next few weeks playing out.
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AS negotiations on hold until well into free agency….
i heard JH say he wants to make the WR relevant….but to put so much money into that position and lose the #1 when the niners are said to be a power offense that is TE centric…..
so this line of reasoning still does not strike a chord with me
not saying i wouldn’t want a wallace but the price tag is too much for an offense that is not WR centric
Agreed! Besides AS can’t get you the ball down field accurately and consistently anyways, unless you plan on starting CK.
Whats wrong with you fool! Haven’t you watch the last 16th games including the playoffs.. dummy..
I’m guessing they don’t cut Harylson – they only have three outside backers with him as it is. And going after Wallace isn’t the issue, it’s how much he’s going to cost, and I’m guessing in this week draft of WR, someone will end up overpaying him a LOT. That’s not the Niners philosophy.
Agreed. I would rather have him restructure his contract to stay with the team. If he does have to go, try trading him first.
The drafts this week? Or they draft Wr’s this week only? No wait, you meant its a WEAK Wr draft. Which you would be wrong again. Everyone claims this is a WR heavy draft.
Also, signing Wallace or Jackson would be a fool move. No big name, big money WR has ever signed with a team and been as good as he was with his previous team. Can anyone name one?
Ed McCaffrey
TO, Randy Moss, Welker…there have been some big time receivers that produced after being shipped out.
@dleo
I bet they can work someting out with PH on the salary end.
He isn’t going to get big money (more than likely) from anybody. His stats are not that great. But he is a solid player who also does not let anybody make any impact plays on his side either.
In a defense as good as ours, which has a lot of guys who can make impact plays, having a couple around who don’t, but also don’t do anything stupid and allow big plays is not going to hurt you either.
I totally agree as well,
It’s wayyy too expensive to not only sign Wallace but lose the 1st round pick too?
There are other FA WR’s out there, yes maybe not the speed of Wallace but clearly some that will be an Upgrade from what the 49ers had last year.
If they’re looking for Speed on the oustide then I would pull the trigger on Stephen Hill with that 3oth pick.
More than just stating that Niners and Pats are Superbowl contenders and attractive options to him, Wallace has stated that he wants to go somewhere he feels “like [he] could succeed” (link below). The question isn’t his cost – it sounds like he’s willing to deal if it will get him to a Superbowl. He’d also come in as the X receiver. We shoud disillusion ourselves that a 1st round pick at #30 is THAT valuable. Niners front office took Crabtree – a project – at #10. In Wallace, we can effectively get a proven commodity at #30. I’d say that’s better value than an unproven one that may be the 4th or 5th drafted receiver in the class. Grant has a point. It looks like Baalke is clearing even more cap space than we already had. He’s famously frugal but, again, he tried flying out Plax last year… I can see this happening.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8271efd1/article/steelers-wr-wallace-openly-flirts-with-49ers-patriots
What a nerd I must be! I’m enjoying waiting to see TB’s moves.
OK, bold enough to reach up? I don’t know. I’ll agree there’s no fear in this group when they decide something. Other than that, its a little out of character. Hill needs time.
We’d need to get SD’s #18 to have a decent chance at K.Wright or S.Hill. If SD loses VJax (likely) would they swap spots if we threw in K.Wms?
Both VJax and M.Wallace could help a lot.
@Brotha tuna
In all likelihood, S. Hill will not be a 1st rounder and my guess is that K. Wright will still be on the board at 30.
@ Nick
Respectfully disagree…..this week! : >)
Our opinions may evolve up to draft. Hill will get a huge bump from his 4.36 40-time. The film I saw from the combine had him looking really fluid too, so I think his stock is rising fast. I’d originally said he wasn’t quite worth #30, but right now I’m changing my mind. I hope I’m not being a “Numbers Numbnuts”. Anyway, I think he’s now a 1st Rounder but could slip to us (longshot). If we want Wright, I think we need to make a move. Imo 90% of GMs won’t be scared off by the 40 time. My guess is it doesn’t cost him more than 6 or 7 spots in Rd#1.
It will be interesting to see where these guys end up.
@ Brotha tuna
Hill in round 1, you gotta be kidding me. I saw all his drills in the combine (no dropped passes). Set the field on fire with his 40 time. Jumped out of the stadium with his vertical jump. My only question is…in a school where productive college WRs become successful NFL WRs (Calvin Johnson, and Demaryious Thomas), why does this guy have only 28 receptions in his junior year (45 career catches total in college). You have to figure that out for me before I can be convinced that Hill is a round 1, otherwise it is a complete joke at this point.
@81
I totally understand your skepticism at 1st round value! My take is that he’s a sleeper. Unimpressive QB at his school in a heavily run-oriented offense. His opportunities were limited by that situation. So there’s a slim body of work to judge him on for that high a pick; Yes. The question is, do you want him? He is going to go higher than ‘reasonable’, but somebody’s going to get him. What then? Many 1st rd WRs are busts…….He could be a difference-maker, like K.Wright.
Like last year’s QBs, some WRs will go higher because owners/TV are designing the game that way.
@NinerMiner
Georgia Tech had a different offense in 2011 with Hill than with those other guys…
http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-tech-sports/2011/09/27/paul-johnson-on-uniqueness-of-2011-offense/
Nerding out with you, brother.
To get either Wright or Hill – one of whom should be available – we’ll need to pick them at 30. And that begs the question, are they worth more than other guys who could be available at that spot (Fleener, Glenn, Worthy, Barron, L. Miller)? While DE or RB may not be a need today, they could be huge needs next year unless we address them now. OG or TE could be awesome value picks if those guys fall.
Perhaps another option – trade up to #17 if Floyd is still on the board.
All this assumes we don’t get Stevie Johnson (6-2, 4.55) or Pierre Garcon (6-0, 4.42) in FA, while resigning Morgan
@Steez
Nice post. Someone wrote about Larry Grant getting a 2nd round tender, which would allow the Niners to collect a 2nd rd draft pick from any team that wants to sign him. If they do this, then they could go after Mike Wallace and potentially still get Fleener early in the 2nd. Must be fun to be Baalke right now!
@Grant
Don’t quite get how you are saying AB was their #1 FA there Grant. Your logic is escaping me on this one.
I would let MC go and keep CR. CR is way better player than MC is, and he was a new player on the team. Let him get more comfortable with the other players in the secondary, and we will be that much better.
I say if there is any chance we can get Wallace, go for it. If we have Wallace, that strategy that the Giants employed would not have worked of letting single coverage go on the WR and doubling VD. AS would have found Wallace a lot, and we would be Super Bowl champs.
I like PH, but if it comes between Wallace and PH, or Wallace and Snyder (who I like a lot), we need Wallace more. We all think we have this great long dynasty ahead. And I hope we do. But, look at the Jets. Went to 2 straight AFC title games, then fell flat on their faces this year. We can win now. We need to go for it. And getting a young WR who has plenty of prime years left is a good start.
“Alex Smith will wait to sign so that the Niners can make as competitive an offer to Wallace as possible. That’s how I see the next few weeks playing out.”
Not a bad little theory of yours Grant. Of course if the Steelers are crazy, they might do anything to keep him. But I doubt they break the bank on the guy. It would cost them a lot, and their defense really wasn’t up to par with what they normally are. Very few TO’s by the defense really hurt them this year.
I doubt they’ll give a larger contract to a 49er this off season. We shall see.
And even if they do, Brooks was they guy they most urgently re-signed. They did not want to let him get to free agency.
@Grant
Don’t get me wrong. I really like Brooks a lot. He really came into his own this year.
My opinion is that TB and AB were the most improved players on the team. Ahead of AS.
I just think AS will get more than $17.5 million guaranteed. But we shall see. lol
I think the Niners are fine back-loading the contracts of a lot guys who they will sign because the rumors of the salary cap going so much higher in a year or two. And, the rest of the NFL will do the same as well.
Still, the Niners have zero fear of losing AS in free agency.
Agree. He was the hardest to replace. Needed and got a sufficient offer to stay where he’s the best fit for team and himself.
I don’t want to lose Rogers, but I can see getting past his loss. Cold-axe bizniz.
@Brotha
What is the hold-up in your view of getting CR?
How many more years do you think he will be good, and what age do you start getting concerned?
I say a 4 year deal is fair. Pay the guy for 4 years and have the 4th year be loaded with incentives. If he’s still decent, he can become your 3rd CB or something.
@DS
Numbers. I swear, I think this personnel group on the 49ers not only works out relative value, strategic value, tactical value on player evaluations (league-wide), but they have quantified it to a numerical value per player. That’s how I interpret their FA moves last year.
I’ve gone to a number of auctions. I have an over-all budget but no particular need to spend anything at all. I preview items and set a ceiling. Busts my ceiling? I pass.
Sorry, I think that’s how the 49ers do it. Like any other philosophy, you gotta be right more than wrong. So far, looking pretty good.
@ DS
I ain’t saying NOTHIN about my wife; she reads this blog sometimes. Waddahelzdamadderwidu?
Sorry Brotha
@Grant
For the good of Brotha’s stomach among other critical biological needs, can you please delete my post at 5:23?
Thanks.
P.S. Maybe this one to. There is a reason why those tapes in Mission Impossible always self-destruct.
Mark my words, if we do not re-sign Rogers, it will come back to haunt us…C’mon Paarag, Tb, get this guy under the wire. He’s got at least two, most likely three pro-bowl years ahead of him….And, HE WANTS TO BE HERE!!
Nobody was blowing Carlos Rogers at the end of last year, after his 7th year in the NFL. Why? Because he has never been irreplaceable. Rogers is a great CB, but he is absolutely a product of the Fangio system, and the beneficiary of a better-than-expected front-7. I like him, I want him back, but I’m not willing to pay over $6M / year for him. He’s earned that, but otherwise, let him go… He’s been a Daniel Snyder Redskin for ages… if he doesn’t care for the Jim Harbaugh team team team, we don’t need him.
I don’t know why we would sell out for a deep threat WR when our QB can’t even get it there with consistent accuracy. If he’s available and SF has the money, I say why not, but to give away a first plus tons of money for a guy that is marginal in redzone? I say heck NO!
@ninerminer
We really had 1 deep threat, and he couldn’t locate the ball in one case that was perfectly thrown, and in another case stupid CR screwed up with a penalty when Ginn finally did make a nice catch and scored a TD in Baltimore.
It takes the rest of our WR’s too long to go that deep. Our OL can’t hold up that long. If anything, AS overthrew his WR’s on deep balls this year when passes were down the middle of the field.
Besides how many passes did Big Ben complete over 50 yards (ball in the air) last year to Wallace anyway? I just want good 20-40 yard routes. Wallace is super fast. He can get the remaining yards to the endzone plenty quick.
@ninerminer81
I’m not sold on Wallace being a Niner. He’s not a good fit for this team. I agree with you that giving up a 1st round pick and big money is not good value. Kendall Wright – if available – would be a better way to go.
I don’t think Wright will drop past the Texans @ 26.
If speed is what you want, there is plenty out there that do not cost 10M plus a first round. We’re trying to fix a symptom of the bigger problem. The truth is that we can get all the talent we want, but AS can NOT make those throws. He doesn’t throw very many passes in the middle of the field and it certainly isn’t for more than 15 yards. I’m all up for Mike Wallace being a Niner. However, if you want a style of offense that can complete deep passes consistently, you need a QB that can throw deep passes accurately and consistently. We don’t have that in AS. The ball that was for TG in the Baltimore Raven game was significantly underthrown. TG made a great adjustment to catch it.
@Grant
As you’ve mentioned before, Baalke has a tendency of moving up to grab his guy. If they’re high on Wright, it wouldn’t surprise me if they moved up to grab him.
But, there’s also a chance Wright goes in the top-15.
Mike Wallace would never come here with alex smith as the qb. They know alex smith is a career killer in the nfl and has no accuracy especially on the deep ball and he has a very weak arm, any pass over 10 yards wobbles like a duck. I feel so bad for Crabtree he will be a beast like he was until he hit the bad luck lottery and got alex three and out smith as his qb.
He said he’s be open to signing with the Niners and Patriots.
@ Grant
Justin Blackmon
Michael Floyd
Kendall Wright @ 26
Stephen Hill where???
You said before you think Stephen Hill goes early, right? So who’s the 5th WR available in the 1st round, and does Baalke grab him?
The fifth receiver is Jeffery or Randle – someone the Niners don’t want @ 30.
I think the Rams will take Floyd over Blackmon, and then I think the Jags will take Hill over Blackmon. Blackmon will still end up going top-15, though. And Wright will probably go top-20.
As for KW, I don’t know what scouts think about him. I think he ran so much slower than what every one expected that his stock may have dropped. I’m just not really a fan of selecting a WR in the first round. If an OL is not available, I strongly recommend SF trading out of the 1st to compile 2 2013 1st rounds.
@Alex
Dude. Mike Wallace is on the record as saying that he would like to play in SF or NE if he isn’t in Steeler country. It was widely reported and discussed a lot on this blog.
A3&OSmith???
You are a turkey. None of what you write is accurate, but your hatred is fervent! Figure it out, get a grip on yourself, and come back with a little something more reasonable.
Smith’s arm is average, but one of his receivers owns the record for most yards ever in a playoff game. That’s a fact. Do you like facts?
All you people who say “Alex can’t do this or that” with regards to the deep balls, lest ye forget, he never had talent to get deep (A Bryant w/ Norv is an exception) along with the coaching that could provide openings. Now that he finally has Vernon AND Harbaugh, he was making strides late in the year. Maybe he CAN do something with deep balls, if he gets coached.
PorkBun:
You mention A. Bryant while mentioning that he is one of the only deep threats Alex has ever had. . If you recall it was Bryant that often showed Alex up when Alex failed to see him wide open or when Alex threw a horribly inaccurate pass his way . Remember the waving arms and sour looks on Bryant’s face when he was forced to play with Alex ? You are like a lawyer who doesn’t know what his star witness is going to say before he puts him on the stand. Bryant would not testify in favor of Alex ,as you tried to imply.
@ Tim…
You’re not reading very well, if you thought Bryant was a focus of that statement. The point was that Alex has never had a deep threat combined with a decent coach. Bryant was a headcase, but he is not the issue. The issue is that Nolan & Singletary were disgustingly pathetic coaches and Alex has been the fallguy. When people say he can’t throw deep, it is without sufficient evidence to say so. Last year, with Harbaugh teaching him, Alex’s deep pass improved to such a degree that it was the weapon that he used with Vernon to overcome the Saints. That’s all Tim. Nothing about Bryant. You think I sound lawyerly?
Yeah,I agree,I don’t think I would hire a lawyer named Pork Bun , lol.
Gop Niners !
…That was supposed to say…GO Niners…But I can’t type !
DS, Crabtree isn’t going to be released. Let it go, and realize that you are stuck having to cheer for a player you hate.
Or you could just let me go, and not start another thread about the topic.
I thought we agreed that we are done on this subject? That does not mean I won’t bring it up. Just means that we are not going to discuss it.
And you still don’t know what hate means do you?
hate – to dislike intensely
I don’t hate MC. I just don’t grade him out as highly as you do. I don’t make up stupid little names and call him that instead. I don’t follow those people who do like MC and personally insult them or attack them for their views. If somebody asks me about MC (and you did), I’ll give them my take. That is what a blog is about. Or don’t you know?
I have a right to have my opinion. You/they have a right to have theirs. Keep it civil and it’s all fun.
Find a “hater” who writes something like that Jack. You won’t find it because they hate. AS is just the vessel they use to hate.
I just don’t think MC is worth what we pay him and I don’t think he is going to get to the level we need him to be. You do. Great.
No, Jack’s correct – you’re a hater, DS – by your own definition. You speak poorly of Crabtree and want him off the team despite the fact he improves year after year. You do not believe Harbaugh and his teammates when the speak highly of Crabtree. You do not support him and he is still a 49er (not even a free agent this year).
You don’t get to define others as “haters” (despite their protests of not actually hating anyone) then claim the term doesn’t apply to you. Not how things work.
You hate Crabtree, therefor you are “a hater”
And here comes 49erGirl. Desperate for attention. Even if it is not wanted by either party.
Was this your 1st post today? My feelings would be hurt if it isn’t.
DS,
I’m willing to give Crabtree another chance just like I did AS last year. I think bringing back JM and acquiring a #1 receiver via free agency would allow to finally break out.
Allow Crabtree to break out I mean.
DS, you are the biggest freaking hater on this blog. You hate anyone who disagree’s with you.
DS – say what you want, but you’re still a hater and a hypocrite for your attitude towards our #1 WR, Crabtree. He’s not going anywhere and neither am I.
Besides, you’re keeping track of my posts – why don’t you tell me what order I posted this in…or is that too much effort for you?
@midwest
What makes you so certain that MC will be ok with a demotion?
And that the Niners will still want to pay MC his due salary and not have him re-negotiate to a more appropriate amount fitting a #2 WR (less than 1/3 of what he will get)?
And that MC will want to stay here at that reduced salary?
I’m not looking at just moving MC on over to a #2. I am looking at the whole picture of things that happen after you get the true #1.
There is only one way that it goes smoothly and a lot of ways that it will fail.
For the record, I said I would give MC his 1 year last year. I did. He had an ok regular season, then vanished in 7 straight quarters dropping more passes than he caught in those last 7 quarters. His post game interview sealed his fate for me.
He is now in the same bucket TB was in last year. I thought he sucked a lot. TB came out and was our best CB in the title game. He showed me I was wrong. MC now must do the same if he is still here on the team next year. Because he is getting paid a lot of money to be average.
BTW, DS – I’m guessing you’ve put up at least 150 posts over the last two threads….I don’t think you have a leg to stand on telling anyone they’re starving for attention.
Amen sista. 49ergirl sista not “it” sista.
And 49erGirl,
What would you do without me on the blog? Talk football? Can you do that?
How about this. You don’t talk or reply to/about me, and I’ll do the same to you for 1 whole week. Think you can mange? Think you can go without mentioning me when you do post? Do you even care to not talk about me?
Quite a challenge for you.
How would it be a demotion DS? Move Crabtree to the slot where he plays better? I don’t see Wes Welker crying in New England because he plays there.
DS – quite a sad little attempt at manipulation you put out there. You’re not looking to keep the peace, you just want one less person pointing out your hypocrisy.
Sorry, chick, I won’t be accepting your sorry “challenge”. You have absolutely no control over what I post and whether or not I respond to your excessive posts (and you never will).
How often does JH have a WR in the slot midwest? And why not have VD there instead? He is faster than MC, and it forces the defense into a bad spot. Who to cover him? VD is faster than any LB, and more than a few CB’s. When his head is in the game, he is a better route runner than MC.
Wes Welker is also a very special talent (who may become available to us as well). He is a consummate pro who also does not drop balls. MC does drop balls.
If MC “became” Wes Welker, I would have no problem with it. But, I doubt he can. Welker is the works harder than anybody. Welker could be the best route runner in the league. MC is not in Welkers galactic quadrant in that regard.
But most importantly, Welker is sure handed. And I don’t know how many WR’s in year 4 become sure handed after 3 years of drops. A WR can become a better route runner over time and learn to read defenses, and sense what the QB wants him to do if they are really in tune (MC is not with AS). But catching the ball? Not many WR’s I’d wager who had drop problems their first 3 years solved that one in year 4, 5, or beyond.
Like I have said for a while now. JM can do the same job about as well as MC, come cheaper, and won’t give stupid interviews.
@midwest
Isn’t Welker shiftier than MC? And isn’t that a valued trait, if speed is not in the slot? Then KW or that kind of WR could fill that niche as well.
DS,
You would put Davis in the slot each time when could mix it up by having Davis go deep, Morgan on one side of the field, ______________ on the other side, and Crabtree in the slot? Yeah Davis does great in the slot but he also does great going deep too. Just having Davis in the slot only would be a sheer waste of his God-given talent.
Crabtree has better hands than Williams right now. And who’s to say that type of style might come out of Crabtree with the right balance of receiving threats? Just a couple of blocks and he could be walking into the endzone.
Gotta agree with niner girl ds…. There are some on here that never called Alex smith out of name that you label a “hater” they aren’t allowed to have a negative outlook on smiths play. Without being dubbed a hater. You have to take the same title for crabbs. That’s how the world works ds.
@md
Being labeled a “hater” had little to do with AS.
49erGirl for instance was cool with what bay wrote about me that one time. It was a very hateful post and she found nothing at all wrong with it at all.
Then she gets all mad at oneniner for writing insulting things at her. Hardly fair.
If she was cool with what bay wrote to me, then she had to be cool with oneniner writes about her.
For the record. When oneniner did go cross the line on more than one occasion, I called him out on it. 49erGirl on the other hand does not return in kind, on the many more occasions bay/23J/others go at me.
And besides. Do you really think all the Niner players will return this year? I don’t. So, I’m evaluating them. And since every blog post is about WR (why would that be if MC is all that?), the WR is being discussed. And who was the only player in that locker room who did not point the finger at themselves following the loss? MC. Who vanished
the last 7 quarters in the playoffs? MC. So, why is it again that I am a hater for wanting to get rid of the only player who deflected blame onto others and didn’t play worth a penny of his salary in the 2 most important games in his life if it means we can get an all world WR?
If AS had behaved in this manner, I would have wanted him out a long time ago. He didn’t. I don’t.
Are GM’s across the league haters for when they drop their players? I am not going after MC. I’m going after his play without calling those who support MC “social moron” or other stupid names or cussing at them.
“Hater” has nothing to do with football md. Nothing at all.
You are welcome to view things your way. As I am to mine.
@midwest
“Crabtree has better hands than Williams right now.”
I don’t agree. Of course that does not matter at all. Only what the coaches think. I think the drops are about equal. They both could improve a lot.
But MC had multiple drops in the playoffs as did Williams. But Williams was basically a rookie. This was really his first full year. And, he was put in a tight situation with having to return punts in that weather. And, he did what I would expect a pro player to do at the end of the game answering all those questions.
I just don’t see MC doing that. And he is in his 3rd season.
I can buy KW not being able to handle the moment. He has a lot less experience. MC does not get that pass. Plus the possibility of KW getting a lot better I think is greater. KW has played in 18 games. MC has played in 42. We know a lot more about what MC can/can’t do than we do know about KW.
Besides, we used a #1 pick to get MC. And after 3 years we are looking to possibly give up a #1 to get another WR. That does not bode well. That can’t be dismissed. Even if the Niners don’t get Wallace or draft a WR in round 1 (I hope they don’t). The fact that people believe they should draft a WR so high is telling.
JR was complimented by a 3rd round pick in John Taylor. The Niners didn’t ever give the impression they were going to look for another WR in round 1 in 1986. JR in his brief play was showing that he deserves a #1 WR position. MC after 3 years has not.
JT by the way really took off in year 3.
DS,
I say let’s give Crabtree the benefit of the doubt for this upcoming season. If he doesn’t have a breakout season with a better WR corps, then I would say he should either restrict his contract his contract or risk being released. Smith proved himself this past season, so why not Crabtree this season. The Niners need some continuity at this position and Crabtree and Morgan would give them just that.
That should be restructure his contract, not restrict it. My bad.
There you go with your revisionist history again, DS.
When Bay made you freak out that first time I agreed with you that the comments weren’t very nice. You just got your panties in a wad because I didn’t agree with you about them being racist (and neither did anyone else except Claude, who we all know is out to get the guy).
Then you got even more freaked out and went on a tirade about it for the next few weeks trying to get more people to agree with you…looking back it was probably one of your first failed attempts to manipulate the blog to succumb to your petty demands.
Do you need me to go back and repost some gems from those conversations to prove you wrong yet again?
See the offer 49erGirl.
Take it or leave it.
@49erGirl:
Since you felt the need to bring me into this:
and neither did anyone else except Claude
That’s not an accurate statement of what happened.
who we all know is out to get the guy
I don’t think you have a very good grasp of cause and effect.
@claude
Just reading those two lines from 49erGirl which you quoted, I think my IQ dropped.
I don’t know how you get thru a whole post. I can’t do it.
Ds…. It looks like some of us look at players in a different way. Some look at attitude. I however look at production. When I wanted smith gone I feel it was warranted. His play stunk. And following a qb history the niners have it wasn’t and still isn’t acceptable for me.
Crabtree on the other hand had improved every year. He’s not a TO or Moss type that is loud and obnoxious. He stays to himself and that’s fine with me. I haven’t heard one “leaked” word about him being a problem in the locker room. So I can’t see why anyone would want him go e so badly. Makes no sense to me.
And as far as j23 bay, and onelame. To each their own. If its against one lame I wouldn’t give a crap. Everyone picks a side. Hater or smither. Until he absolutely becomes the face of this franchise. This rivalry will continue until he leaves.
That’s cool midwest.
I don’t agree. But I won’t persecute you for thinking that way either (hater did/will Jack).
The thing I am looking for from MC or any Niner player for that matter is to show up in the big games at the key moments.
If MC does that next postseason, I’m all in. Sign him to a nice extension.
Just look at what I wrote about VD during the year. Much of it was disappointing (not hating). Then he comes and plays the best 2 games of his life in the playoffs. All that stuff I said and thought about VD went right out the window for me.
MC, if he is here and plays like VD did this past postseason, all this will be wiped away. A clean slate will be ready and waiting as we hoist up our 6th Lombardi Trophy.
@md
“When I wanted smith gone I feel it was warranted.”
And, that, in itself was fine. I disagreed with you. And that is fine in itself as well. The thing that was not fine was how we each conveyed those opinions at times. At lest, that is how I think of it.
As long as I don’t (and I have not) use the same type of words in detailing my thoughts on MC at this time which we both wrote before to one another, that should be fine as well.
“I haven’t heard one “leaked” word about him being a problem in the locker room. ”
Well, we’ll just have to disagree. Either that, or you are putting too much emphasis on “locker room”. He hasn’t had a “clean” non-event year. I’ll put it that way.
In year 1 he held out 4 games into the regular season. He wasn’t anything in the locker room then because he wasn’t in the locker room. Hardly a sign that the guy loves football over anything else.
In Year 2, there was that huge shouting match between VD and MC. And it was believed to have something to do with MC not practicing and using his injury as an excuse. VD who was coming into his own, told him that was not cool.
And the Niners gameplan was for AS to get the ball to MC a lot, and in the first 5 games or so, AS threw a ton of Int’s. Almost all of them were intended for MC. And the strong belief by many is that AS and MC had not developed that chemistry that was really required between the two, and that struck me as bad considering that argument VD and MC have. And I am sure both now will say it was over-blown, etc.
Then after the season, MC made some slight comments about “Who is the Niner QB” when everybody knew that JH was giving AS another chance by that point
And I don’t know what measuring stick you are using when you are saying MC has improved each year. Each year, his yardage totals have gone up say 130 yards or so (but keep in mind his yardage totals would have been higher in his rookie year had he come to camp on time and started the season). His yards/game is basically where he was at as a rookie. His TD’s are actually down from year 2 to last year.
http://www.nfl.com/player/michaelcrabtree/71269/careerstats
So, if there was improvement, statistically it wasn’t there. And in the thing that I actually care about, making big plays in big games in big moments, how many such plays has MC had from his rookie year to year 2 to last year? Especially playoff games?
I can think of 2 plays last year. One against AZ in game 1 (Game 2 PP shut him down and that is concern I have) and the great throw catch in Seattle.
I can come up with more big plays VD and AS had in one game (Saints) than I can MC has in 3 years. Are there others you would like to share md? Has MC caught a game winning TD in the last, say 5 minutes of a game to seal it?
“To each their own. ”
I just hope that one day this blog does have an ignore button, and that you will use it on oneniner, and oneniner will use it on you. You know who I would use it on.
“See the offer 49erGirl.
Take it or leave it.”
My official answer, DS, is that you can shove your offer where the sun doesn’t shine.
Claude – my apologies for dragging you into this. I was originally going to say that nobody agreed with DS about the whole racist thing, but I remembered you stuck up for her so I didn’t want to be inaccurate.
Plus there are some fairly good options to replace him via free agency.
I’m talking about CR here. The previous post didn’t go where I wanted it to go.
Let him go. Niners are stacked at DB if you trust the FO. See Grant’s comments on previous blog entry:
Culliver
Brock
Brown
Nelms
Holcomb
–
all are 6′ burners. Culliver best physical specimen, Brown most experienced, Nelms best hands, Brock most instinctive, etc…
–
and then there’s the draft. lots of talent there too this year
Gotta agree with Pork Bun. I think Rogers is a product of a great defence, as much as anything. He’d be nice to have back, butr Don’t break the bank on him.
Wonder if Dallas Cowboys offer Rogers a huge deal! I hope not *Gulp* I don’t think there is a chance that the Steelers let Wallace walk, but if they did I think NE has the advantage lower #1 pick I think they have 2, plus he said he want’s to play with an elite QB. And we have well…A serviceable QB.
@lasVegas
“Wonder if Dallas Cowboys offer Rogers a huge deal!”
No repeat of history is needed there.
Not sure it matters since the Steelers are going to tender Wallace. That would mean no matter what deal the Niners strike with MW, Pittsburgh will be able to match and ultimately keep him. If they let Wallace walk, it would cost the 49ers a first round pick (and possibly 2 first rounders depending on the nature of the tender) which is essentially a non-starter.
It would only cost the Niners one first rounder, and the Steelers can’t match – they don’t have the cap space.
@Grant…
So do you think they grab Wallace then? If not, what position you think they’ll look to fill? BPA? Offensive lineman? Running back? Coby Fleener?
–
speaking of RBs, I think they get one in the draft or FA… Robert Turbin looks good. Also, Mike Tolbert from San Diego will be available. Insights?
I think it’s Wallace or Wright, more likely Wallace. Turbin looks like someone the Niners might draft in a middle round.
Grant,
Do you really think the Niners are willing to give up their first round pick and go into a bidding war with other teams who are interested in Wallace?
I have serious doubts they’d go that route. Baalke seems shrewd and willing to pass on the “must-have” free agents, and Harbaugh seems to feel he can work with anyone who has the right attitude and work ethic.
With their combination of negotiation skills and coaching ability, why wouldn’t they lean towards spending the same amount of money Wallace would demand and use it to fill more than one hole on the squad?
Why would they give up so much when they can pick up someone with a moderate talent level and make them better with their excellent coaching staff?
Sorry, I just don’t see Wallace in a 49er uniform next year. Doesn’t fit the M.O. of the current front office..
Which deep threat do you think the Niners will target?
I see them going after Wayne or Garcon or one of the other middle-of-the-pack FA WR’s. Possibly Meacham? I don’t know who they have in mind, I just don’t see them going after Wallace or V. Jackson due to the contracts they’ll demand.
On the flip side, I think they have a better shot of landing higher quality FA’s this year because of the fact they’re now considered a playoff team. They’ll use that to their advantage to sign guys for less than what they are offered from teams like Miami or Cleveland.
Wayne isn’t a deep threat, and Garcon might cost nearly as much as Wallace – he just turned down a 5-year contract starting at $7 million a year from the Colts.
Meachem could be the cheap deap threat option.
Grant: “ONLY” one 1st rounder ???
Tim, yes only 1 first rounder. It is the 30th pick,and they would get a proven commodity.
Grant, I know you like Fleener. Would you still prefer Wallace with Stevie Johnson potentially hitting the free agent market?
Doesn’t Johnson have a piercing in his cheek? He’s weird. I do like Fleener, he’d be a good pick if the Niners got their deep threat in free agency.
Jackhammer:
Don’t get me wrong,I would love to get Wallace. And your point that it is only the 30th pick is compelling . But I always will object to anyone using the word “only” when referring to a 1st round pick. It’s bad enough we will probably need to overpay to get Wallace to play here,with our currect thrower,but then to have to give up our #1 pick on top of that seems a bit much. If it’s ok with Baalke and Paarag,then I am certainly ok with it. But I am also ok with a WR like Hill coming in and growing into the job as Kaep grows into the job,so that in a year or so the offense can start being elite and remain that way for years to come.
We also need another RB .
If Hill falls to 30, he’d be a good option. But I highly doubt he falls to 30.
Wallace is only 25 years old, and he is PROVEN in the NFL. He scared the hell out of me before that 20-3 beatdown earlier this year, and I think it’s only due to Big Ben’s bum ankle that he didn’t shred us.
A few Sunday pundits last year said they thought Mike Wallace was the very best WR in the entire league. The 30th pick in the draft would be a small price to pay to the Steelers.
He is weird, but a WR corps with Johnson, Crabtree, Morgan, Davis, and Fleener/Walker would seem more potent to me than a WR corps with Wallace, Crabtree, Morgan, Davis, and Walker because it give the Niners a deep threat plus another big target for the endzone.
Good point, but I bet Johnson gets near-Wallace money. More money than Garcon gets.
“Doesn’t Johnson have a piercing in his cheek? He’s weird. I do like Fleener, he’d be a good pick if the Niners got their deep threat in free agency.”
Grant, I’m starting to believe that getting a speed guy in FA and *not* giving up a 1st round pick is the better option. Would you rather have a Fleener/Meachem combo versus a MWallace *only* option??
No, I’d take Wallace over those two. I think very highly of Wallace and not so highly of Meachem.
It would be fairly easy to front load a contract in such a way that the Steelers could not match. Roster bonuses count toward the current years’ cap rather than being spread out over the length of the deal. Baalke/Paraage could construct a deal that hit this years’ cap for $15 million while being cap friendly over the remaining years. The Steelers could not match that without gutting their team.
This move would make the #30 pick a guaranteed player rather than a 50-50 chance of Rashaun Woods 2.0
Grant, I hear you but the 9ers could even add another FA WR (total of 2 plus draft Fleener) for what they will pay for MWallace.
@msc
Thought you might appreciate this about Woods:
http://football.about.com/cs/playerprofiles/p/rashaunwoods.htm
Goes to show just how good we all are at predicting successful players from the NFL draft.
Still, it would allow the Niners to keep their first round pick to maybe use on a potential replacement for Walker. That seems like a better option Grant.
Like I mentioned, I don’t really know who they’ll target as their deep threat (although sounds like it might be Meachem – we’ll have to nick name him “cheap and deep”, lol!).
I just get the strong impression from Baalke and Harbaugh that they aren’t interested in the top tier FA’s because they can fill more gaps and add depth in other positions with the cap space they have available. The top FA’s would eat up too much cap space (and in Wallace’s case cost a 1st round pick).
@DS this line in his evaluation under negatives “Woods lacks great top-end speed and may have trouble getting separation in the NFL.” is precisely the reason I don’t like a lot of the WR likely to be available at #30. All of those guys – Sanu, Jeffreys, etc. – have that same caveat
The #30 pick will cost around $3 million per year in cap dollars. Wallace will cost $9 million-ish. It’s up to Baalke to decide if the extra $6 million is worth it to get a sure thing instead of a 50-50 chance for a bust.
@msc
“Probably the most polished receiver in the draft. ”
I was actually focusing more on the first sentence of the positives.
But, I agree with your assessment. This is a big moment for the Niners. They can get a known weapon in a different system, or keep the draft pick and get somebody else. Is the salary cap difference between the two too big to make the move on Wallace? Is the skill level between that pick and Wallace huge, so paying for Wallace is actually worth it?
Glad I am not really the GM. Much more fun to play one on a blog.
Of course Mike Wallace is going to say he wants to play for the Niners, it is called a ploy, keeping his options open and its all negotiating game, if I was Wallace I would rather go to New England, he is familar with the AFC, plus they have a QB that can actually throw the ball accurately. That would be a scary combination of Brady and Wallace, if the money is the same he is going to the Pats. Stone cold lock !! It a no brainer let’s see Brady or Smith, that a tough one.
You would rather go to a team with a shoddy defense to where your offense might not get on the field? Yeah Brady is an elite, but we all saw what happens when don’t have a good defense to back up your offense. The only reason the Super Bowl wasn’t a blowout was because the Giant’s offense didn’t have their best game.
Just to throw in some food for thought…what if TB & JH are looking ahead with CK as the QB with his rocket arm that Wallace can’t out run? This is Wallace’s shot a a big contract so if the Niners are the team I’m sure he’d be happy to take the money in SF.
It seems to me that people are basing a little too much of their opinion of Baalke on last offseason alone. When they have had a major need, they have addressed it. He has been fairly aggressive in the draft, he gets his guys. I agree with Grant, I think they get the guy that can put them over the top. Why waste the opportunity?
TBD
grant i think you’re wrong about the niners needing a deep threat like wallace…their primary need at receiver is a guy who can be a go to guy on 3rd and 8 or in the red zone…those plays are a much bigger part of the niners gameplan that the deep passes
granted the deep passes can open things up, but i dont see it as the main need to fulfill
agreed!
Crabtree and Davis could be those guys on third down. They need a deep threat to open things up.
@ Grant
No one is going to fall for a deep threat when the QB can’t get the ball their with consistency. This is the same logic that we used with Ginn. It didn’t work!
@Grant
I could see you saying either VD or MC.
But both? They are completely different in what they bring/what they lack.
@ ninerminer81…..Alex isn’t the best QB, but are you really serious?! Ginn is trash as a WR. He’s got butterfingers and lacks vision on deep balls.
What’s your favorite color to eat?
@ I eat Crayons
TG’s downfield vision has nothing to do with AS inaccurate passes. AS has overthrown everybody on the team. That has nothing to do with the WR’s vision.
@ninerminer
I believe Crayons was referencing that on at least one occasion, TG was wide open, AS threw a perfect deep ball to him, but TG lost site of the ball and deviated from the route. The ball fell harmlessly in the endzone for what would have been a sure TD.
@mark
I respectfully disagree about the deep threat. Every team we face would know about MW’s speed, and ability to catch the ball, and would be foolish to give him only single coverage. Our WR on the other side (Morgan?) would have single coverage, which opens up our slot (MC, or KW) in the middle of the field…also VD and Walker from TE. At that point, they can have no more than 5-6 in the box which would have Gore salivating….All of this just for having a deep threat with good hands.
Trust me. They would single cover Wallace, Randy Moss and T.O. with Alex at QB until he proved that he could beat it.
Have you seen the loaded boxes we’ve faced over the last few years? That’s why Gore is so beat up. He’s run into loaded boxes his entire career with Alex here. It wasn’t until the last couple games of the season that they had to respect VD with Alex throwing to him.
Doesn’t matter. Wallace won’t come here to play with Alex. Neither will any other top FA wide out that cares about stats.
Bay: Hopefully Wallace cares more about the coaching and the deep roster and the playoffs and the $ than he cares about his dimished stats with our QB throwing to him. I think a 1st rounder and the huge load of cash is too much but there are ways around some of that,if the Steelers and Wallace are willing . But if Wallace has a similar place to go,with good coaching and a good roster and big $ contract AND a good QB,then the Niners have no chance.,unless Wallace believes it will be him and Kaep for the next 10 years ,after one more year with Alex.
Brilliant Tim. LMAO!
I thought you might like that one Hof ! Glad to help you smile !
Bay,
The Saints made that mistake in the playoffs with Davis. Plus I hate to break it to ya, but Wallace has much better hands than most of the current Niner WRs. And just having a deep threat would open things up for Crabtree.
I get what you’re saying Mark. The 49ers don’t need to start hitting home runs they just need to be able to bunt occasionally.
The offense did pretty well last year in not screwing up and letting the defense and special teams win games. They don’t need to become great on offense they just have to be decent.
I won’t complain if they get Wallace because that would be fun to watch but the 49ers don’t need Wallace. They just need to be slightly competent on 3rd down and in the Akers Zone.
It’s easier to bunt when the defence has to respect the full swing. Wallace’s presence on the field opens it up for everyone else underneath. I’m starting to drink the Wallace kool-aid. But of course, it all depends on the price tag.
Nice analogy Angus
It is really hard to score a lot of runs when all you do is bunt because nobody respects any of the batters power on your team.
That is why V Jax is appealing…he can run deep and just throw the ball up for him to get and the same applies in the RZ…bring back the alley oop.
Grant,
Couldn’t the 49ers sign Wallace after the draft and give up a 2013 1st round pick – essentially giving them two 1st round picks this year (whoever they take at #30 and Wallace)?
I imagine there will be other teams competing to sign Wallace as soon as free agency starts. I think he’ll sign somewhere before the draft.
Better this year’s pick than the one next year. No telling if the pick next year will be as low.
My mistake, for a tender it’s only 1 first rounder. Given that it’s a late pick (30th), I’d say let’s do it, though I still think Pitt would find a way to clear enough cap room to match any offer to Wallace.
@GoFD
But at the huge expense of not fixing up their holes.
Their OL/DL were not very good this year. Especially their OL. Marginally better than having 5 CR’s out there. They were that bad. Big Ben helps their stats a lot since he is so hard to bring down.
Just ask the cops. lol
Giving up a 1st and spending what, 8 mil a year, vs getting a WR at that pick, who could be just as good (no guarantee either way) and spending 1-2 million a year, giving you ~6 million to spend on Rogers, Goldson, or whomever.
Tell me again why Wallace makes sense? Cause he’s fast. Woopie.
Many say the fastest in the league, some say the best WR in the NFL, and still only 25. He’s the perfect WR to pair with CK7, too, because he knows how to break routes off and get open WAY downfield for someone with a Howitzer!
Smart teams value 1st rounders. A 1st rounder should garner you a productive player at a low cost. To give up a 1st for the right to give a player a big free agent contract – particularly to a wide receiver -is not sound team building. To give up a 1st for an expensive free agent is the antithesis of what Baalke did last year.
@hacman
Yes, it is different from last year.
But then that team was 6-10, and 3rd place in the worst division in NFL history.
This team is 13-3 and an OT from the Super Bowl.
And last year was really the first time TB had control. That is an n=1. Predicting future actions off of an n=1 is a bad idea. You don’t even have enough points to make a line.
Completely agree with you, hacman. Well said.
The only way the Niners should give up their first round pick is for Drew Brees. Other than that, no.
Ok, Midwest – that’s one exception to the rule I can’t argue with.
Of course, if the Saints have to franchise Brees that opens things up a bit for all of their FA WR’s.
Maybe one WR 49ergirl. Don’t forget that they also a free agent at the guard position in Carl Nicks.
Mike Wallace would never come here with alex smith as the qb. They know alex smith is a career killer in the nfl and has no accuracy especially on the deep ball and he has a very weak arm, any pass over 10 yards wobbles like a duck. I feel so bad for Crabtree he will be a beast like he was until he hit the bad luck lottery and got alex three and out smith as his qb.!>…
Well
Reggie McGrew was so inaccurate all the time, I think I will go against his say so on everything and be right about 99.99% of the time.
LOL I DO have to wonder why anyone would hook their moniker up to a loser 1st round bust!?!??
It is of course also an ignorant statement since Mike Wallace mentioned SF as a possible destination. (sigh)
Oh, SNAP, Reggie. You really got me with that one!
BTW, homophobe, eh? Pathetic.
Football opinions are what they are, so you’re right, we’ll see. But Wallace coming here or not won’t be the measure of Alex or anything else but value to him(Wallace) and value to Baalke.
Reggie,
Mike Wallace would come because he would be overpaid to come. If he were an unrestricted free agent who had made millions in the league already, he’d have to think it over.
You are correct that Wallace won’t excel in this offense. Who does with Smith at QB? If Wallace gets paid, he will be willing to see his numbers dip drastically. Cause he will be paid for it!!
@ Jordo
Lower numbers for sure, but would a ring and a big payday be worth it?
I’d love his dangerousness on our team, but it is pricey.
Besides, Jordo-
Wouldn’t VJax have to come to the same conclusion?
And, my take, is that its every bit as much JH as it is AS. We’ll see.
I still think the biggest concern by the front office is not over-spending. If we don’t get a f/a WR I think it will be a value judgement by Mgt. Grant proposes they might pull the trigger. Might be right.
Jordo, a 25 year old Wallace looks at the stacked 49ers and sees Harbaugh and Kaepernick, with Smith being the 1 year hiccup to get there. Kaepernick to Wallace for the next 6 years sounds more like it.
Pork, you and I see eye to eye but don’t count on CK anytime soon.
Brotha,
I dont trust VJax. The man is a drug test from a long suspension. Too much baggage for me. Thats why he cant get that long term contract.
Pork,
I can only hope youre right. Why beat someone deep if you cant get the ball. A 10 million dollar decoy?
If we get Wallace, that should speed Kap as the QB in 2013 or 14, maybe Kap can be the next Big Ben minus the rape charges.
Hofer :
That is the most realistic thing I have seen you post in a long,long time !(that you believe Kaep is the future,but not quite yet,sounds like what I believe and have said). I am glad to see you back to your reasonable days and not just posting your support of just one player ! I have always respected your opinions and now perhaps even more so from now on ?
I hope for the best from whichever QB starts for our team,and that goes for any position on the roster. I am sure you agree !
” I am glad to see you back to your reasonable days and not just posting your support of just one player !
Tim, correct. I don’t believe in “backhanded” compliments.
OK Hof,I offer you my hand in friendship (the front of my hand ,lol ).
One thing we can agree on (really there are many!),is that we both hope Alex plays great this year,along with every other player on the roster .
“we both hope Alex plays great this year”
Tim, agree – this year and the next 5! The will mean JH did his job as QB gure and maybe the 9ers get a 1st round pick for CK that will help keep the 9ers viable for years to come…
So Davis can’t excel with Smith as his QB? Go ahead and believe your post if you want to 23. I’ll just stick with the truth here.
I’m worried about back loading the contracts but i didn’t think about the cap increasing. What happens when other players step up and need to be paid? Lets not get to crazy and end up in cap hell. Alex is going to get as much as he can who knows if he will have another year like last. Not saying he is going to ask for crazy money but i think hes going to want to be paid. I think the biggest issue will be the years.
In a few years (2014?) the cap will go up a good amount. Not just 1 or 2 million, but a substantial amount. I think it was around $30 million. So, its a big increase. Back-loading contracts won’t hurt too much.
What people don’t know about is anywhere from $10-12 million per team is donated to the legacy fund for the retired players created by the new collective bargaining agreement. This means the cap for 2012 should be anywhere from last year’s $120 million to the $130 million range.
A couple of things that are going to affect the cap in future years are the huge television contracts that will raise the NFL’s total revenue by $1.865 billion a year, or another $20-30 million per team in cap money. The cap will affect a lot of the contracts signed this offseason. Expect to see a lot of contracts with low first two-year cap hits and then higher third and fourth-year cap hits.
That being said, we would be just fine bringing in Wallace and AS wouldn’t overthrow him. This would definitely keep teams from loading the box. It would help MC and VD. I’m glad you brought this up DS….I was starting to get annoyed. lol
@MontanaMan16
You’re welcome.
Going after Wallace makes so much sense on so many levels. They are selling seat licenses right now. Can you imagine what winning the super bowl would do for selling those licenses. Plus they have a lot of cap space to do this. My guess is that they will make a crazy offer for Wallace that no other team would want to match. They will do this because it makes great business sense. Wallace will pay for his contract just by the bump in the price of the seat licenses. No other team is in that position!
@Dennis
The Pats are actually in pretty good shape salary cap wise. So, they could go for him as well and match what we can pay more or less.
But, is that their recipe for success though (the Pats)? They like trading down and getting lots of guys partially because they don’t have to pay 1st round money.
I’m very curious as to what reasoning you are using to believe that Baalke is going to be aggressive and pay the money it will take to get Wallace. I realize that the tape on Baalke’s moves isn’t too long yet but looking at last year and listening to what the man says I’d have to say that there is a 0% chance that we even call his agent.
You say he’ll aggressively go after the best WR available but that is exactly the opposite of what he’s done to this point so how can you legitimately believe he’ll suddenly do so now?
The far more likely scenario is that we’ll grab the guy Baalke was trying to get before we ended up with Braylon and that is Plaxico Burress. Another veteran Wide Receiver that I can see Baalke signing is Deion Branch.
Plax is going to the Eagles. No doubt. He’s already said so. Hes going for the same reason he won’t come to the Niners. He wants numbers.
Jesus. Not a big deal. AS is our QB, but lets be realistic about it. He did a nice safe job this year. He is bottom of the league in just about every offensive category. FA wide receivers see this and know this. For this reason, NO FA WIDE receiver that is decent will come play here unless we grossly overpay. Gonna have to do it through the draft.
BA Fan, you’re wrong on this, buddy. See comment to homey Jordo above… CK7, 60 yard frozen rope winger, sits in the wings. They all know this. They will come because they want to win. They will come because they want to play for Harbaugh. They will not not come because of the hiccup Alex.
I finally get one of the reasons you guys like to throw over-the-top insults at Alex though now, after yesterday’s horrific exchange with the “it” that can’t support “it’s” views… must be fun to watch “it” get “it’s” feathers ruffled
I’m a huge CK fan. I think he will show us enough his first year to make us want more. From there he will turn into a top 10 QB.
Not a fake top ten with low production but a high QBR, but the real deal. CK IMO is going to be a beast that will light up ESPN highlight reals weekly.
PBL, VD has no problem getting open and receiving the ball from AS even though Bay and Jordo see multiple receivers getting open in their virtual “I was at the game” plays.
Bay, you are trying too hard. lol
I’m excited to see what Kaep can do over the off-season. My gut tells me he’ll be starting by the end of next year.
Honestly, I don’t think Alex will lose the job based on his performance, I just have a bad feeling that he’s going to get hurt taking all those “safe play” sacks and Kaep will have the opportunity to come in – once he does he’ll never look back…..
GM behavior should shift when situations differ. Last year, there was a coalescence of new talents and personalities, so big ticket acquisitions carried massive risk. This year, with stability and excellence established, adding Mike Wallace carries almost no risk.
It will be a bidding war for MW so I don’t see it happening. Remember NA the top CB last year and how quickly the 9ers bailed?
If MW wants to win, the bidding war won’t be too intense… there aren’t many teams near the top with a lot of cap room right now…
http://www.ninerscaphell.com
It used to a safety was “S”…Comcast says Tyvon’s position is a ” SS”..OK,whats the extra S?
Strong safety.
Ohh,thanks. Getting too technical for my tastes..
what is the Q for, Grant?
This “Alex Smith can’t throw long” thing guys keep repeating is getting very, very tired. I’ll still go with Norv Turner’s initial assessment – Turner said that Smith had the talent and strength to make all the throws. He called him “Troy Aikman, only quicker and faster.” Smith will get a second season in a cohesive, QB-friendly system, a full off-season, and at least one new receiver who will be able to stretch the field. I look for him to get even better next season and I look for him to make everyone who says he can’t throw long shut the heck up. When both V. Davis and a burner on the outside are streaking, he’ll throw to one of them and he’ll start connecting. The idea that he doesn’t have the arm is absurd. I’ve seen him overthrow guys 65 yards down the field.
@BillP
+1
To throw the ball deep a few things have to happen first
1. The WR’s need time to go that far down field
2. The OL needs to give the QB time to wait as the WR’s go down field
3. The QB has to throw the ball downfield.
4. The WR needs to catch the ball.
If any parts of this fail, nobody remembers it.
The Niners don’t have the OL to do it. Partially because Nobody is scared of our WR’s, so they can blitz and get pressure in AS face well before the route is ready for AS to deliver the ball. So, they have to leave the TE to block, which allows the defense anyway. NO did that a lot to us.
And partially because the OL are not good enough yet to give AS the time he needs. AS has never had a game with the kind of protection DB got against NO. That was disgusting.
Exactly, and blitzing from a stacked box is even more difficult to stop. Getting a top wide out will give AS more time and he can make the throws! If people forgot, go back and watch highlights from Utah. I just watched a bunch of them and there are some pretty impressive throws.
Ive said this before and I’ll say it again. The best of Alex is yet to come. I’m not entirely sold CK will ever take his job without an injury. And I like CK!
@MontanaMan16
I said at the beginning of the year that this Niner team will be the worst one he puts out there on the field.
And they almost made the Super Bowl!
I hope now more than ever that my initial statement was correct.
Bill, you find me an OC that doesn’t find a way to praise his qb, give me a break, the only thing Troy Aikman and Alex Smith have in common is they both played in the nfl. Billy boy, alex can’t throw the deep ball, everybody knows that, everything over 10 yards is a duck, he has a very weak arm that is very well known to everybody except little short bus bill, go back to football school.
Aye-Aye Reggie!
Give it up Raider fan.
Everybody does not know that. The Niners coaches don’t know that. You just think you know that and you’re pretending everyone agrees with you. And use your tired old spin move on someone else, Tully. I’ve been watching the NFL since decades before you were crapping in your diaper.
I don’t think he has a weak arm at all. He just misses because, well, what DS said. Wow i cant believe i said that . lol jk Ds
We’re cool waterman.
: – )
Pun not initially intended, but well thought up anyway
Troy Aikman = Game Manager, 1st Class
Bill B, you are correct. Your comeuppance will be this year – a full offseason with JH and AS working on the intricacies of the QB position. JH wants to make a name for himself and if he makes AS a top 10++ QB, he will go down in NFL history.
I’d like to see video of that throw. I’ve never seen Smuth throw 65 yards EVER. Video link???
I don’t have a link. All I can tell you is that over the last six years, I’ve seen him throw some nice rainbows. I don’t know – maybe someone’s still got the last game on their recorder. How far was the ball in the air during the last game when he overthrew Kyle Williams. That had to be at least a 60-yarder. Hey, we’ll see next year. He’s going to have a second year with Harbaugh and a full off-season. He’s going to have some faster weapons on the field. The difference between me and a few of you guys is that I’m not pretending to know what’s going to happen. I trust that the professional crew of coaches on the Niners know more than anyone in this conversation. They’re the ones who want someone else to stretch the field along with Vernon Davis. My working assumption is that they wouldn’t be working for that if they didn’t think Alex Smith could make the throws. I’ll go with their opinions any day over anyone here.
Bill,
I have that throw on video. I have that whole awful game on video. I’ll tell you how far it was in 1 hour on this very thread. 57-59 yards max. When he throws it that far, it’s hardly accurate at all.
The Grant signing makes perfect sense. Keep the front 7 in tact.
A good front 7 makes automatically makes the secondary look better.
A lot of Goldson’s picks were due to the front 7 creating pressure and the DBs playing center field.
As for Wallace, pull the trigger. If the niners are just going to go BPA in the first round they might as well use it on a WR like Wallace who is right in his prime
No free agent wr wants to play with a career killer like alex smith, use your brains. They will be just another talented scape goat for alex smiths lack of skill at the qb position just like Crabtree.
Career killer??!! Yeah, Alex Smith has just killed Vernon Davis’ career hasn’t he. Guys, who is the fastest receiver on the team? Vernon Davis. Who has Alex Smith connected with on the most long passes? Vernon Davis. You guys need to stop pretending to know things. I don’t know Alex Smith is going to turn into a deep throwing threat next season and you guys don’t know he isn’t going to. All I’m saying is that he does have the arm to do it and he’s going to have a better opportunity to do it next year.
Bill,
So if you don’t have Davis’s speed, you can never get open deep? Ted Ginn is just as fast as Vernon. When Smith threw deep to Ginn, the throws were often inaccurate. I can think of Detroit and the Ravens game for 2 of them. Throwing it deep and throwing it deep accurately are 2 different things.
Smith has had accuracy issues his entire career. I’m sure you can admit that Bill.
Right on Bill B.
These armchair QBs who think they know more than JH and TB are quite tiresome. The real solution is to ignore these would-be know-it-alls who don’t know squat about football.
Alex can throwq deep; he does throw deep; and he will only get better throwing deep under JH.
However, throwing deep is not the rule in the WCO. The WCO is about short throws, moving the chains, etc. It may be more exciting to fans to watch deep throws but I want the 49ers to WIN GAMES! I couldn’t care less whether they win games by running, passing short, passing deep, or however. I just want them to win.
Reggie and co. are probably not even 49er fans. They are certainly AS haters, which means their biased viewpoints have no credibility and therefore should be ignored.
Jordan, didn’t Smith hit Ginn deep against the Ravens but it was called back due to Chilo’s penalty? Your weak arm assessment is just that, weak.
Or he dropped them 23. Don’t forget that was one problem he had when was with the Dolphins.
@longtime
Very true.
What is so sad is that you have the same group of people who can’t even admit that they don’t know as much about football, the Niners, or AS as JH does.
They just can’t bring themselves to write the most obvious thing somebody can in that the HC knows more than they do. That tells you a lot about a person.
Reggie,
They will see that next year when the Smithers have a whole new list of excuses for Alexs average play and 200 yards a game. 1 completion to wide receiver in an entire game. Sounds like something only Tebow could do!
What excuses are you talking about this year? They went 13-3 and a fumble away from going to the Superbowl. Are you going to argue that it is an excuse to say they didn’t have a decent wide receiving group. Everyone who isn’t a delusional Smith hater holding on to their precious years of frustration knows that they didn’t. Are you going to argue that Smith should have done better than a top-10 QB with a new system, new coaches and no off season? Good god, you guys are stubborn. I would think that after 13-3, you’d give the Smith bashing a rest for just a little while.
Bill B, don’t debate with Jordo because he has an agenda – a QB agenda – he wants *anyone* but AS as his QB even if the new replacement QB and the team isn’t successful. You see, it is personal with Jordo. Even though the top 5 if not the best QB guru chooses AS as his QB for the long term, Jordo disagrees. He knows more than JH. lol
@hof
“…don’t debate with Jord…”
What are you talking about? You do it all the time hof.
I follow your advice. You don’t.
What hofer said. The fact Jordan can keep throwing this nonsense out even after he’s been proven wrong about the guy on virtually everything he said going into last season isn’t worth the time.
Some people can’t be reasoned with and it’s futile to attempt it. Jordan is one of those people.
why would they cut Harrelson? they are thin at olb as it is. also, this Wallace speculation is ridiculous. he wants to be a Steeler, and the Steelers are a team, much like the current 49ers, that generally cultivate talent from the draft, and reward excellent young players with good contracts. I realize that Pittsburgh’s cap space isn’t particularly high right now, but in case you missed it, they already cut bait on Ward and restructured Ben’s contract with the expressed desire to give them the cap space they need to sign Wallace.
I understand the desire to write a blog that posits interesting concepts, and allows 49er fans to revel in their daydreams of total dominance, but there are times when you cross the line in to homerism. I think it would help you to be more judicious in your writing. I like the 9ers a whole bunch too, but thinking Wallace would walk away isn’t giving due credit to one of the best run franchises in sports.
Adam Schefter reported today that the Steelers will not franchise tag Wallace http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2012/03/01/could-mike-wallace-be-back-in-the-wide-receiving-picture-for-the-pats/
Frank,
Because he won’t be franchised, that tells you that they don’t have the dough to pay Wallace. They are not going to match a 1o- 12 million dollar offer to Wallace, guaranteed !! Wallace has already said that SF and New England are attractive places to play with SB aspirations. You must be a Steeler Fan. With all the cuts and restructuring the steelers are doing, if Wallace gets that offer, he’s gone bro. Stay tuned!
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having some respect for the Steelers, and I kinda agree with Frank on some of those points.
I also have respect for the 49ers organization and head office. They are a lot like the Steelers. Nothing that this current front office has done makes me think that they would invest a ton of money to land a prized free agent, as some kind of quick fix. I’d be a little concerned if the 49ers actually did pull this off and got Wallace. It’s just outside everything that the front office has said that they would do. I like the results that we got from being selective and slow paced during last free agency period. I mean, it wasn’t easy at the time, but it seems to have worked out pretty well.
But fans are fans, and every fan of every NFL team seems to want their team to act like the Redskins during free agency… of course none of them want to perform like the Redskins during the season. Odds are that Wallace wil be back with his team, and I think that’s okay. I look to the front office to supplement with some lower tier talent during the free agency period, and trying to locate a “steal” in the draft.
When does free agency start?
3/13, I think
Grant, Approximately how much do you foresee the 49ers having to spend to get Wallace, or V Jackson?
$10 or $11 million the first season.
Yikes! I’ll do it for 7.
@Brotha
In 2013, MC will count about that much against the cap (between 6-7 million).
Guess who I would pay more for?
How much for Stevie Johnson Grant? Same amount or a course less?
That should be a little less. Stupid phone.
This one still gets me:
Tully Banta-Cain: “everything over 10 yards is a duck,”
Did you even watch any games last season? I mean really. Check the stats, man. That’s just wrong. That last pass he threw in the Saints game was a bullet. And he threw quite a few beautiful 30-40 yard completions over the course of the season. I can’t even imagine how anyone could have been watching last season and came away with “everything over 10 yards is a duck.” It’s completely delusional.
@Bill B.
They really can’t. They are haters. And they just want to use AS as a vessel to express their hate about something/somebody in their lives. They can’t be reasoned with.
If AS wasn’t the QB, they would just go find another vessel to express their hate against.
We almost got to the Super Bowl with horrendous WR play. So the question is: If we had Mike Wallace on this team, with pretty much the same rest of the team but with a full training camp, some talented rookies, etc. would we be in a better position to advance further in the playoffs?
I think that would be a definite yes!
There is NO WR comparable to Wallace that we would get with the 30th pick. If Wallace was a 30-year old then I would not agree with giving up our 1st Round pick. But since he’s only 26, it absolutely makes sense. Anything we bring in with that 1st Round pick will not give us the certainty of success that Wallace would. Whichever player we take with that pick could bust, or never become a difference-maker. Wallace already is one!
Anybody who thinks that having Mike Wallace (or VJax) on this team would be a detriment is just not seeing clearly.
If you think Wallace or VJax should NOT come to play for us then what is it that you want? What kind of WR would you want? A 2nd tier player, a 3rd tier player, a 6th Round “hopeful?” You’ve got to be kidding?
From everything I heard about Wallace, he is not a bad guy or teammate or a guy who gets into trouble at all.
But, chargersfan did warn us about Jackson.
I generally agree with your post. If we have MW in that title game, we win. Hands down.
What/who are willing to give up to get Wallace though? Personnel wise. If it is just money and we have it, then that is too easy.
Charger’s fans in general don’t like Jackson because he refused to sign the tender the Chargers offered and they believe he and Marcus McNeill caused the 2010 season to be a failure.
It’s important to note that Jackson did not hold out in 2010. He was not under contract with the Chargers. He (and Marcus McNeill) got screwed over by the Lord of No Rings (AJ Smith) and refused to sign the RFA tender the Chargers stuck him with until the last possible moment. In 2011 the Chargers thought highly enough of him to drop the franchise tag on him.
I wouldn’t have any issue with the 49ers signing Jackson on personality grounds. His age is an issue though.
@msc
You know who in particular I am talking about right?
The blogger chargersfan who comes here every once in awhile and actually says some pretty cool stuff.
Just checking to make sure you do.
And I bet Chargers fans don’t like Jackson’s little “I’m to lazy to do anything to try to catch the game winning TD” against the Raiders. That was pathetic. That play right there probably cost VJack a ton of money.
Ok. Speculation:
I’m reading that Blackmon may be slipping due to less-than-burner speed and separation worries; nothing but rumors at this point. But if he falls, do we take him a la Crabs? I say not, too much like Crabs. We need big and/or fast/quick.
I don’t know anything about college players, but I doubt a supposed top 5-10 guy drops to 30.
And there is no way I trade up for a WR. Especially one that may resemble MC in the NFL.
Naw. But I’d at least consider trading up to #18 to get KW. If Hill doesn’t fall to us at #30, there’s other options.
Brotha,
We would take Blackmon in a heartbeat. He is a monster. He dominates. He is the guy in this draft. He’d have to break his leg to fall far enough for us to get him. Would be nice though.
It seems to me most have forgotten we run a west coast offense. In a WCO throwing the ball deep isnt the primary tool used. Spreading the ball around, short passes with the expected YAC, power running game, and ball control are the main tools used to pierce the defense. What were the problems last year on offense? Easy answer – third downs and the red zone. Quick sure handed receivers that arnt afraid to go over the middle is a must. Rice the best receiver of all time didnt have blazing speed. What he did have is good hands, quickness, elusiveness and the ability to get open. Dwight Clark also didnt have blazing speed. Remember we run a WCO got to have players that do well in that system. If you get speed burners like Wallace or Jackson or anyone else are they going to be happy with AS as there QB. Probably not, unhappy players usually dont play well. Dont get me wrong I like AS as our QB but he has to play within his skill set and he needs players that play the WCO. I still like Fleener he has all the skills knows the system so he can be of imediate help. Big man good hands with decent speed. Things that we need to help the red zone and third downs. I know the knock on him is he cant block. Blocking is a skill, it can be taught, the question is not about his lack of blocking ability, its his desire to block. I think its a good fit and fix for the Niners.
@undercenter
“It seems to me most have forgotten we run a west coast offense. ”
In today’s world, we want immediate satisfaction. We just pretend JM and JR scored all these TD’s on 75 yard bombs. Because if the QB can’t throw it over 60 yards in the air, he is weak.
Note: I don’t agree with that at all. I remember JM doing a lot of check-downs to RC, and quick passes to JR and such, and letting them do the hard work afterwards.
Funny thing is, JM says that all the time in interviews. But many here who claim to worship at the JM shrine ignore/claim that is not the case.
Of all the people on the blog undercenter, I can actually believe you played QB and the game at some level. Many people here who make claims of having played don’t ever reveal the type of things that you do. So whether you actually did play undercenter or not, your posts are usually pretty enlightening to those of us who never did.
Here comes BS with the BS! The Joe Montana and Jerry rice comparisons. Our QB is Alex freakin Smith. No pro bowls, no super bowl rings. I spectacular game in his entire career! He can’t hold Joe mints as helmet!! Stop it!!!! You’re BS ing us again BS!!
@23J
See the bottle saying not to take more than prescribed?
Take the whole thing. It’ll help you out more.
Thanks DS.
@undercenter
:- )
@23jordan
Did I mention Joe Montana? A lot of you think speed is what we need. That is why the Rice comparison is used. Rice didnt have speed and he was the best at his position. Tell me what you know about the WCO. How its applied. I have already stated I wont talk about AS anymore. Arguments on both sides hold water. AS is the QB whether you or I like it or dont. Your problem 23jordan is you think you know football and sometimes you surprise me cause sometimes your right. I have not ever once stated that a post is BS or called the poster little kids names. You need to grow up young man and maybe we can trust your post as being articulate with well thoughtout comments. You ruin your arguments with imature comments. I place zero credence about your football knowledge until you grow up and stop the name calling and mudslinging. ITs a simple thing how to handle a difference of ideas. When you learn how to handle that is a sign that you are growing into a well rounded man.
Undercenter,
You fail to realize that I dont give a damn about what you think of my credibility. BS is Bs. Try minding your business. How about that? Thanks.
@jordan:
And do you know what you fail to realize?
A lot of things, actually.
Welcher.
Claude,
Biotch!
@ Undercenter
“Alex is the QB whether you like it or not”
–
um, can I maybe step in here and point out, um, that ALEX SMITH IS NOT OUR QB!!!!!! HE IS NOT UNDER CONTRACT!! He is not our QB.
@undercenter
“Rice didn’t have speed”
Heh – someone pays too much attention to the Underwear Olympics. No one caught Rice from behind on a real football field. Not even Deion Sanders.
@jordan:
“Biotch”? Really, that’s the best you can do? The frat boys on the ESPN message boards are more creative than that.
You can call me all the names you want, but it won’t change the fact that you have welched before and that you have promised to welch again. That makes you a welcher.
Don’t forget Rathman…how many check downs did he turn into 1st downs?
23jordan, no, I’m not going to go there. This last season, Smith was ninth out of 34 QB’s in QB rating with a QB rating of 90.7. He had a 61.3% completion percentage, which placed him eleventh out of 34 QB’s, so he was in the top third of the league there as well. You guys have your opinions, and you have your right to them, but they don’t really square with the numbers. And, all I’m saying is that he’ll only get better as he gets more comfortable. Towards the end of the season, I saw him beginning to throw guys open, which has always been a problem for him.
Bill,
29th on 3rd down. Last in yardage per game for a full time starter. 1-13 on 3rd down in the biggest game of his career. 1 completion to a wideout in that game. I’m sure you’ve never seen that in an NFL game before.
QB rating ??? Thanks to JH for the system. Thanks to the defense. Smith knew he could take those 44 sacks. He knew what kind of defense and special teams he had.
Smith had to be aggressive in 3 games last year. Philly, new Orleans, and NY. He failed to do so in the most important one. That 3rd down percentage never got better. That means we are going to need more in the clutch. 3rd down is in the clutch. We won’t get 38 turnovers next year. QB has to find guys when they are open and throw them the football. Receivers will be open.
Jordo, you should know better. Third down efficiency is a collaborative effort between the HC. OC, QB, and offensive players – it’s not on *one* guy but I know you believe it helps your AS agenda argument. WRONG!
Hofer,
call it straight for once. Smith has never been higher than 29th in 3rd down conversions. A VERY IMPORTANT stat.
Different systems, different coaches, different receivers, SAME QB. Same result. Just about dead least in 3rd down efficiency.
Trivia, Since 2004 only once have the Niners finished 7 spots higher than 29th in 3rd down conversions. They finished 22nd in 2008. QB? Shawn Hill. Same line, same receivers, same offense. Better QB…..
Bay, don’t be ridiculous you are better than that! Do you really think the history was all on AS and not the inexperienced HC’s?? Come on man!
Hofer,
same line, same system, same coaches same receivers and Hill finished with a winning record which Alex never had, and he finished with a much higher 3rd down percentage…. The proof this there Hofer. Ignore it if you wish, but the proof is there.
This is the point where you make excuses….
@bay:
There’s plenty of proof that you and jordan don’t know much of anything about quarterbacking, particularly when it comes to Alex Smith.
You said it wasn’t the coaching, it was him.
You were wrong.
You said he wasn’t good enough to start in the NFL.
You were wrong.
You said the 49ers would never win with him as QB.
You were wrong.
You said the 49ers could not win in the playoffs with Smith as their QB.
You were wrong.
Ignore it if you wish, but the proof is there.
hill is not proof of anything…..revisionist history…..
Did it ever occur to you that Alex was simply executing the plan for Harbaugh? If JH wanted him to gun sling instead of taking sacks he would have made more plays and more turn overs. +28 is why we were 13-3 last year. You could see when we had to be more aggressive to win a game Alex did well in the come from behind drives. Give another year in the system and a new weapon or two and you’ll see better red zone and 3rd down production. JH has a plan.
They won’t own up to the fact they were wrong in pretty much everything they predicted for Smith Claude. It’s like their mind is on reboot after every point blows up on them. The mindset of a message board I guess.
as lovely as signing wallace sounds an as much as it would help us. thats not realistic for the niners at all.
Trent Baalke will be aggressive and get the best deep threat available”
when has baalke ever done that or anything like that. exactly. i want it to happen….but it probably wont. if they do get him, wallace, crabtree, morgan gore an v davis linin up…thank god the dynasty is back
when has he ever…? what do you mean? He’s 1-for-1 in Exec of the Year awards, so it’s probably not a good bet to go against him.
Pork, +1.
I don’t quite know where you get your numbers and who is and who isn’t included. But assuming the 9ers have 26 mil (not counting Brooks), they spend:
Brooks 3 mil
Smith 10 mil
Goldson 6 mil (tagged)
Spillman 3 mil
rookies 6 mil
Total 28 mil
That means you have 1 mil for Wallace, Rodgers, Snyder, Morgan, Costanzo. I just don’t think it can be done. Everyone looks at the 26 mil or 29 mil number and thinks it is a lot. But everyone is forgetting that that money goes first to Smith, Brooks, Spillman, Morgan, rookies, Goldson, Rodgers, Snyder. Each of them get looked at – or replaced with the cap money BEFORE adding a WR. And they take it all.
@Frank
Spillman is signed for less than 3 million for 2012. His whole contract may have been for 3 million, but not his salary for this year.
Frank,
Did you think spillman got 3 mil this year? You think smith is getting 10 mil this year? You think the rookies will share 6 mil? Wrong.
Jordo, it’s really unfortunate that your agenda is getting in the way of logic and team chemistry. JH will continue to work with AS this offseason and he will get better and 2012 will be an awesome year.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Hofer. Now, about that contract extension. How much is it again and how many years? Just wondering.
The longer it takes the more it is about years. I’m thinking AS and his agent want 4-5 years and the 9ers want 3-4 years. I’m speculating that AS gets 5 years with a guarantee in the $20M+. It doesn’t mean they keep AS for 5 years which is similar to AB’s contract. Only that they will be required to pay him the guarantee amount but again, since JH has stated AS is his long term QB, I see a contract that is beneficial to both parties.
Hofer,
$20 million guarenteed. Thats franchise QB money. Harnaugh must be cutting that deal. After all, Alex is his caddy! I think that might be a bit much and too many years Hofer. Sounds like a Hofer contract 4-5 years. Those must be a series of 1 yr contracts! With out clauses.
Jordo, not really they just game AB $17.5 guaranteed for 7 sacks. AS and JH are a team that will continue to improve – they will pay the $20M+ guarantee over the life of the contract.
Hofer,
As it turns out, Brooks got 8.5 million guaranteed.
Contract can be structured in a way that keeps the cap numbers down next year. AS won’t count $10 M against the cap plus there will be some casualties line Spenser that will add money back in. They can do it
Frank,
Your numbers are way out of whack. Goldson will count for 6.2 mill if he doesn’t sign a long term deal but the others won’t be what you are speculating.
Smith will sign a 3 year deal I’m guessing that will come in at about 8 – 10 mill per, but will have performance incentives like Brooks deal does. The cap hit for the first year will be much lower, it always is.
Spillman will count for 1.5 mill at most due to the fact he signed a two year deal for 3mill.
The rookies will be half of the total you predicted at most.
There’s plenty of cap space don’t worry.
I say no to giving up the pick AND all the money he wants. I would enjoy having him on my team. Unrestricted would be better.
Grant, do you really think the 49ers will break the trend and spend a ton of money on an outside free agent? The last time they did that successfully was Justin Smith, but he was one bright spot among several failures. Do you think they’d risk locker room chemistry by paying Wallace more than any other offensive player? I don’t think they can get him for less than $10-11 million per season, which would make him the highest paid offensive started unless I’m mistaken. He is an amazing player, but I don’t know if it’s worth risking the incredible team chemistry all for one guy…
I have said all along on this blog to watch the receiver who operated in a run heavy offense with a high YPR ratio. Hill will probably rise, maybe low first or early second. If Wallace is available who cares about a first round selection. They could get a really good receiver in the second and Crabtree will have zero leverage, unless he works hard off season and training camp.
I just purchased the playoffs and regular season games from iTunes, but I am finding it difficult to watch the Giant-49er final. I pass over it every time.
Honestly, I see the team drafting a running back or offensive lineman with their first pick. Logic being that Frank is getting older and the team needs a strong physical back. The other, Rachelle never developed, will be let go and the O-line is one injury away from ending the the season. My opinion O line is the most important aspect of the game.
Or, Trent Balke has a good idea of what is available in the later rounds and trades down for quality. I have to say that Balkes picks are solid and produce results.
Also, the draft and free agency is deep in receiver talent, I am sure that there is a bargain somewhere in there. Personally I want to see somebody who is young and fast and will develop into a long term acquisition.
I am confident in Trent, after all last year when all of the marque DB’s fellow off the grid and I thought all was doomed, along came a guy by the name of Carlos Rogers. Now I know, nobody saw that coming.
Doc
I think we will look at a rb in later rounds. Not #1. We do need to draft a RB I agree. Better value for RB in later rounds.
Yes I agree with you, this draft appears to be deep in talent. So what do you do? Like I mentioned above, maybe the organization should trade down and get more picks.
I agree Doc, I don’t think the 49ers will be in play for the big-name WRs on the market. I think Robert Meachem or somebody his level could be in play, but I can’t see them getting into a bidding war for the top level guys. We saw this same scenario play out last year with the CB market, and I think Baalke (rightly) gained confidence from assigning a value to each guy and ducking out of the bidding when that value was over the top. I think a starting offense of Crabtree-Meachem-Fleener-Davis would be pretty intimidating for years to come…
“Crabtree-Meachem-Fleener-Davis”
Looks damn good to me!
I always thought the Niners would not break the bank for a top receiver but if they think that a receiver puts them over the top, Baalke and Harbaugh’s call.
I like your logic, I would add two factors. Get a young receiver who can learn the system early and is less prone to injury during a long NFL season. Second, the 49er coaching staff is superb, they can make an above average receiver into top ten ratings guy, so therefore I have confidence in the teams development of players.
Its all about doing your homework as Trent has proved, I for one am eager to see what hidden talent he brings in this season.
@doc
“Second, the 49er coaching staff is superb, they can make an above average receiver into top ten ratings guy”
We actually have no evidence of that yet. We all hope that to be true. But we need evidence.
@DS94everXev
Don’t you have something better to do with your life than post on these blogs all day?
I have seen you comment numerous times without seriously reading the posts that you reflect on.
Why don’t you go get a job or an education?
You perceive yourself as though you are the 49er general manager or come off like a know it all. Kind of like a cancer that just won’t go away.
Doc
Doc,
Perfectly said – speaking about your comments related to the Niners coaching staff and DS.
Thanks 49ergirl.
I think that is the key raw talent and development. I think we have seen it with Alex Smith, J. Morgan and the Defensive End turned Full Back B. Miller.
Obviously DS could not recognize this, makes me believe we are talking to a high school drop out or a person diagnosed with mental illness. Unfortunately we have to put up with him therefore it comes easy for me to call him the cancer of the blog or a real pest.
DS94everXev, are you getting this?
Doc
Getting Wallace would be a coup indeed, however I’m 99% sure it will not happen.
Razor, agree. It’s not in line with what they did last year and they won’t get into a bidding war with other teams.
Grant:
Can’t they make a trade for Wallace and in that way circumvent the rule that says they must give up a 1st rounder to the Steelers ? I thought that many times in the past a free agent has agreed to sign and then be traded ? All that has to be done is to make a deal with the Steelers they agree to (maybe a 2nd rounder and a 5th rounder next year etc,etc ?) ,and then have Wallace agree to the terms of the new contract and to the trade. I guess it would all depend on if Wallace wants to stay in Pitt or not and if Pitt thinks he wants to leave ,etc,…AND if he would be willing to come to the Niners with the current QB situation ?
It seems to me that a 1st rounder AND a HUGE contract is simply too much to pay for Wallace. Even a 2nd rounder and a huge contract is a bit much imho. (since a 2nd rounder usually becomes a pretty good starting player on a team that drafts well like Baalke does).
But my question still stands,can’t they avoid the 1st rounder give away ,if the Steelers and Wallace agree to a trade before free agency kicks in (or shortly after )?
…I guess the snag might be that the Steelers don’t have the cap room to sign and then trade,even though the $ would only be on their books for a few hours ? But they could probably find a way. And they probably don’t want Wallace going to the Pats in the AFC,so they have incentive.
I like the mike wallace idea but we still have to sign Carlos Rogers. We could also go the colston route and Garson and pick up Asante Samuels to team with Rogers. That would make us very solid.
Flash,
Samuel is still under contract with the eagles for big bucks. The eagles would give him away to save that cap hit. They are stick with him. Besides, he can’t play man.
Just like the whole Eagle’s secondary.
They draft an ol first rd. Sign a second tier wr. Then draft a wr, cb, olb, RB and dt. Smith can hit deep down the middle its the outside fades he can’t throw and sails the ball out bounds.
I agree,Alex does do better in the over the middle passes,even the longer ones. He is not great at it and often throws too long or too short etc. But he is better at the over the middle stuff than his quite often horrible attempts at the sidelines throws.
@Tim
How exactly did VD tie the all-time TD record for a TE with an inaccurate QB when VD ran pretty much seam routes up the middle of the field?
DS:
I wrote that Alex is not so inept on the over the middle throws,even the deep ones. The over the middle deeper throws in the playbook just happen to be reserved mostly to VD,especially in previous years. I always said that I wish alex could throw the other passes as well as he does the over the middle throws,then he would overall be near average.But he still wouldn’t be seeing the field and reading defenses and still would be a slow decision maker etc etc etc etc etc . But JH is working on all those faults and several more,so there is some sort of hope .
Tim, I can’t wait for your comment (whine) when AS signs his long term contract. lol
@Tim
Silly me.
SO inept as opposed to just inept.
My fault.
So inept to the tune of 13-3/NFC title game and receiving such honors from the QB guru as “Pro-Bowl, and Elite”.
Your point was well made.
Hofer/DS :
I am looking forward to Alex signing what I expect to be a 3-4 year deal worth between 7-9 million dollars a year. Hopefully back loaded ,like most of the deals the Niners do,so that when and if Kaep takes over that if Alex doesn’t want to stay as the backup,then he and the team each have the option to part ways. I like alex,so I do hope he stays as the backup and of course for this year as the starter.
No sour grapes from me,since I am well pleased with our QB situation,WELL pleased !
I disagree slightly Tim. Alex is money on the seam route – it’s his best throw.
He needs to improve touch and accuracy on short routes more than he needs to improve his deep throws. This is the WCO, not Air Coryell.
Instead of running Wallace on deep 9s the 49ers could use him on 8s and get the same effect of taking the lid off of the defense.
Tim
Are you hoping that the Niners win the Super Bowl next year?
If so, then barring injury, AS will be that QB. And your plan is to have him become a back-up in a few years?
This is where you need to think out the plan you want, and the plan you have in your head.
I’ll give you some help. You know by now that I like AS. Well, that one year when SH was the starter, I wanted the Niners to win the Super Bowl. Even though Hill was the starter (and I liked Hill a lot by the way). I was fine with Hill becoming the next JM leading us to 4 Super Bowl wins in 4 years if he could. Which means that Hill would have been the starter the following year. And, I would have wanted the Niners to win the Super Bowl then as well. So, that means I wanted Hill to be the QB.
I want my team to win. That is what I want. Whoever is back there, I want them to win. Because if they do, we win the championship. And, then I want the same thing the following year.
See where I am going here Tim?
Don’t have any plans for CK to become the starter and hope that AS wants to be the backup when he has won a Super Bowl by that point in 3-4 years. And we are hoping that the Niners win a Super Bowl within the next 3-4 years, right Tim? I’m hoping we win 3-4 of them. I’m greedy.
@DS if the 49ers win the super bowl because of the offense then of course they’d keep Smith as the starter.
But if the 49ers win the super bowl because of Justin Smith, Patrick Willis and David Akers then I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kaepernick in 2013.
Right now the 49ers offense is that same as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs and 2006 Bears. They’re being carried by the defense and special teams. If the defense manages to carry the team to a SB in 2012 that wouldn’t make any player on offense immune from replacement.
@msc
My memory of those 3 teams is much different from yours I guess.
None of those 3 teams had a QB who could have pulled off that win against NO. All 3 would have lost in that first playoff game.
And, none of those 3 teams had a ST remotely near as good as ours. I’ve said all year long. The Niners go into each game with the better defense and ST every time. That is 2/3 phases they are better in. If the offense does not screw it up, they will win. And they did. But even then, they found themselves behind 6 times last year in the 4th quarter, and somehow AS found a way to get the Niners to score the points they needed to win the game.
I don’t know how many comebacks those other 3 teams had, but I doubt it was 6 in those seasons they won the Super Bowl.
Had AS found a way to pull out a 7th, we are likely the Super Bowl champion. And 7/16 wins are comeback wins. I’d say the QB had a good deal to do with it.
But I think we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
we need a qb
@ Grant, that does not include the $16.7M carry over from last year, does it?
For what its worth…
The 49ers interest in Mike Wallace puts the Steelers in increased cap pressure… which benefits their main division rivals, the Ravens.
Signing Wallace away from the Steelers also benefits the Ravens.
Either way a Harbaugh wins. Ain’t life grand?
Hah! Nice one B2W
Argument For Wallace: He’s only 25. If signed, the 49ers would have him during the prime productivity years. He resolves the deep threat scoring delima and would put immense pressure on defenses.
Argument Against: By giving away the #1 pick, we would miss out on someone like Fleener (and give an extra #1 pick to the main rival of Jim’s brother). Wallace would also be more expensive then Fleener, increasing the chances of not re-signing Rogers.
I’m going back and forth. Wallace is a known NFL commodity and is a true WR, but Fleener knows the 49ers system and resolves some glaring needs.
The 49ers have two great TEs and are short on WRs, but Fleener makes sense from the standpoint of a team filling a NEED rather then a position.
The 49ers glaring needs: Red zone receiving, converting third downs and catching in traffic. That’s Fleener. The one shortcoming is Fleener would not be near the deep threat Wallace has proven to be.
Vernon-Walker-Fleener would make alot of red zone matchup problems for defenses. Another red zone passing combo that makes me drool would be Vernon-Fleener, with Bruce Miller in motion.
I have confidence Fleener can catch, but can he block like a legit NFL Tight End?
Nice post
But there is one huge flaw.
There is no way that we know Fleener will be there for the taking at #30. Your assuming the whole time that if we don’t get Wallace, we will get Fleener. That is incorrect.
It is very possible that if we don’t get Wallace, we don’t get Fleener as well.
And, this draft is deep at WR. If we try to move up to grab Fleener, we will lose one of those mid-round picks which are usually so important in picking up good overlooked players.
I say go for Wallace. That is the only sure way to make sure we get a terror at WR. Then you still have those mid round picks to pick up some other over looked player (WR maybe even) who can become something special as well.
“There is no way that we know Fleener will be there for the taking at #30″ – correct
I was going to note that under “Argument For Wallace” but I spaced it out.
You made a very good point. No guarantee Fleener would be there at #30.
Fleener??? Really… what are going to do run 4 man tight end formations. People were already manning up on the wr’s and running 9 in the box quite a bit at the end of last season. Remember when we couldnt run the ball? While I like the flexibility it provides running these formations in the red zone gives us less space to opperate not more, especially when our line doesnt exactly push people off the ball.
@ Grant…
At this point, I want to just say a positive word about nepotism. I’m glad you are a writer like your dad. And I’m glad there’s an unabashed Niners fan like me who went to UCLA and now gets to direct his own blog. You are doing a fine job! Keep up the good work. This is fun, bud!
@ Grant…
Love the Fleener talk, love the idea, but what about Byham? He’s back to 100% and is a very highly rated TE, especially in the blocking schemes. And he is a Baalke pick. How do they work that?
Walker is a free agent after next season. Better to get his replacement and develop him sooner than later.
Byham is strictly a blocker. The 49ers can (and did) replace that by simply putting a 6th OL in the game. And Staley has great hands, so why not?
:-D
True, but having another big target on the field doesn’t hurt either.
@Msc… I thought so too, but he’s raising a bit of a stink about his improved hands, and at 6’4″ & 260lbs. I don’t think it’s good use of his contract to simply dismiss him as a blocker only. He was the BEST blocking TE in the 2010 draft, yes, but he is also a Baalke guy, and Baalke seems pretty shrewd to me. The more I think about Fleener, the more I wonder about whether they’d take him as a WR. Then they’d have VD and Fleener, who could both play both TE and WR, they’d have a legit 6’6″ RZ target, they’d have a stable of solid TEs, and they’d have a couple of burners…
Makes your mouth water, don’t it Pork? No pun intended.
I grubbed Thai Green Curry with Tofu for my luncheon today because my Nurse said Pork Bun Luncheons are for healthy people who can sit in restaurants, not for cripples who have to get takeout.
–
But yeah MWN, seeing what Jimmy Graham and Jermicheal Finley do to defenses because of their height, not necessarily their speed, seeing how indefensible they are, makes me wonder why teams even go for 6′ WRs any more. Obviously there are very talented guys out there like Manningham, who’s ridiculous catch in the SB was divine, and other traditional WRs like Crabs or Hakeem Nicks or Steve Smith, who come in the 5’10″-6’2″ range… But the league is turning on its head, and as long as DBs are maxing out at 6’1″ we’ll probably keep seeing height trump speed in terms of value…
Baalke is shrewd but he’s capable of missing in the later rounds just like any other GM. If you disagree ask Ronald Johnson the next time you go to McDonald’s. Right after he asks you if you would like to have fries with that (and trust me, you do – they’re yummy).
Byham is a nice niche player but I don’t think the 49ers would balk (baalke?) at upgrading the TE position if Fleener is available. IF Baalke and Harbaugh think Fleener is a significant upgrade and IF they think that’s the best way to use the #30 pick.
That’s two big ifs of course.
Alex does tend to throw a bit high so another tall receiver seems like a good idea ;~)
Wow Grant, I believe that if you were to post a topic about the weather in Mexico on your recent vaca, that somehow the topic would find it’s way back to Alex Smith (whew!)
I was among the first to throw M.Wallace’ name into the 49er mix, and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see him in a 49er uni next season. Having said that, I will venture to say that C.Rodgers is as good as gone.
Although Rodgers had a great year, I firmly believe that our ‘elite’ pass defense opened many opportunities for him to find success. A good microcosm of that was appearent in the championship game. Our pass-rush was not getting to Eli as much in the first half and Eli/Cruz feasted on Rodgers. The second half was a different story as our pass-rush brought more pressure. The only way we pass up on Wallace is if can good shot at K.Wright. But as I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, the M.Wallace to 49ers possibility is very intriguing and now even more interesting. C’mon Baalke, ‘get-r-done!’
You bring up an interesting point AES.
When Alex whiffed on that pass to Kyle Williams the breeze created had a ripple effect. It caused a Candlestick flag to briefly elevate which in turn slightly deflected the flight of a large moth. The moth ended up going south west instead of west and had a mild effect on the El Nino winds.
Long story short – Alex is responsible for the tropical storm currently threatening Mexico’s west coast.
LOL.
LOL at msclemons.
Good point AES. I don’t think the Niners view Rogers as somebody they need to pay top money for both because of what you said and the fact they have some young CB’s on the roster they like.
The 49ers have plenty of $$$$ to do almost anything they want. As Grant points out they are roughly $26m under the cap currently (one way or another Spencer will be gone).
Brooks’ deal is not totally backloaded, it is more middle loaded as it goes up then back down the last couple years.
If they feel comfortable with their current crop of CB’s and want to wait on Rogers they would need to still re-sign Goldson, and Alex, along with their draft class as the big ticket items.
Last years draft class, of which 9 made the roster cost them just over $6.5 million against the cap. Should they get Wallace and give up the first rounder the remaining 6 picks would cost roughly $3.1m against this years cap (based on 2011′s salary scale). That would mean they still have ~$23m in cap space.
With that $23m they sign Wallace for $11m, ($12m still left), Goldson for $5m (7m still left) and AS for $5m (basing this on a backloaded team friendly contract as Grant mentioned). These numbers are very rough because of ow they can manipulate the deals. That being said the would still have at least $2m left over to sign their other guys like Costanzo etc.
Main point of this is, as they showed with the Brooks deal they can be very creative with their numbers to make whatever they feel they need to do to give them the best team possible a reality.
Good post Jack. Also – Patrick Willis is hanging out there with a $17 million dollar cap figure due to some finagling to get around the 2010 “30 percent” rule. Willis already has that money and the 30 percent rule no longer applies so restructuring the deal the free up cap room shouldn’t be an issue if necessary.
Thanks msc. That may be 1 way they could pick up Rogers if the market doesn’t meet his demands.
Spencer will come off the books @ $3M too
I still think Grant understated the Niners’ cap space by a whopping $15M
“… Q: How do LTBE credits work?
A: LTBE credits can be used to transfer cap room from one year to the next. The CBA states that if the LTBE credits that weren’t actually achieved are greater than the NLTBE credits that actually were achieved, the the difference will be added to the next year’s salary cap. Even though all LTBE incentives are counted against the cap, not all of them are actually achieved. Since using up cap room for money that ended up not even being paid is unfair, teams can get a credit for the next year. However, if the NLTBE incentives that are earned are greater than the LTBE incentives that are not earned, the team will have its salary cap decreased the following year. So while there is a starting salary cap each year, almost every team ends up having a different salary cap after the incentives are calculated.
… “
I would think there were a ton a LTBE credits in Braylon Edward’s contract.
The NFL should be releasing final salaray cap numbers in the near future – this could be interesting.
PBL, what makes you say that?
Got ya. Thanks PBL.
Get it? It’s like roll-over minutes. So, if the Niners choose to, they could jack their cap # up another $15M based on these LTBE v. NLTBE figures, as dictated by the new CBA…
PBL, yeah I remember him mentioning that in a blog right after the season but didn’t realize those dollars weren’t figured in already. Nice catch.
PBL, if you could just find a way to make DS a cap casualty you would be the King around here! ; )
@jack
I have an offer on the table to bay, 49erGirl, 23J and now I guess you can pork.
I’ll stop posting if you stop.
Funny. They read and reply and make fun of me and call me out for everything. But never on that one.
Wanna take it up guys?
*you and pork*
Hey DSL
You said you were going to lay off, and asked me to do the same, so I have, happily. I don’t care if you keep posting. It’s your life and yourself you keep making look bad, so continue, by all means.
I support 49ers players. I appreciate Niners legends like Joe, Jerry, & Ronnie. You seem to be lumping me in with the Alex Hater crew, which is weird. I’ve always been a Smither (care to corroborate that, Jordo/BAF/Girl?). But Alex isn’t the Niners QB right now, so I am gleefully independent and happy to prop up CK7, who is the future of the franchise.
That is what I thought.
Tough guys. Can’t hold up their end.
Getting in a last word, eh? What exactly are you trying to say? Tough guy? Own end? You wrote directly to me, which you said you weren’t going to do!
It’s an offer pork.
And, you weren’t supposed to talk about me either.
You didn’t answer my question. Don’t worry. I won’t act like you did when I did answer your question. You just didn’t like the answer.
All you guys do it, then I will.
@DSL
For the last time:
” I don’t care if you keep posting. It’s your life and yourself you keep making look bad, so continue, by all means.”
DS, Just because you have been exposed as a Hater don’t get mad at me for it. I will continue to post as much as I want, and if I think you are way off on something I will call you out on it just as I have Bay, Jordan, and anyone else who I think is off base with their comments.
Please feel free to continue posting yourself. You have a right to your own opinion as does everyone else.
I only ask that you try not to act like you are at a higher standard than the AS hate crew, because your posts on Crabtree are almost a carbon copy of theirs except that you haven’t yet changed his name to something silly yet.
I’ll keep control and not cry like a baby and act like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum if somebody does not reply to me after they have told me they are done with that subject.
Ok. You’re not in. Deal is off the books.
Have fun cheering for CK7 as he backs up AS.
Jack
I’m the one who made up the hater term. I know what it means.
If people go around using it because somebody disagrees with them about another player, know what? Then everybody here will be a hater. If you want to sign somebody in FA to become a starter or even a backup, do you know what that means? Somebody who was on the team is now off the team.
Sorry. My definition has a little more to it than that.
You live in a fantasy world Jack. Where we keep all of our players, we sign a lot of new players, and we keep them all. It doesn’t work that way Jack. Stop with your silliness. Somebody is signed, then somebody must go.
Who do drop Jack if we keep 4-5 of our draft picks, and sign 3-4 guys out of FA then? Huh? Do you think the numbers will work out perfectly every year where we don’t cut any players? Get real man. It has to be somebody. You just don’t want to think ahead beyond what is in front of you. A problem you have which is not at all unique to you.
DS says, ” I am one who made up the hater term. I know what it means.”
My bad DS, I didn’t realize you worked for Webster’s Dictionary.
“If people go around using it because somebody disagrees with them about another player, know what? Then everybody here will be a hater.”
Not true DS. Many on here can have disagreements about a player, but it is only those that continually hammer on one player due to there own personal agendas that are hating on them, ie Bay, Jordan with AS, and you with Crabtree.
“You live in a fantasy world Jack. Where we keep all of our players, we sign a lot of new players, and we keep them all. It doesn’t work that way Jack. Stop with your silliness. Somebody is signed, then somebody must go. ”
DS, let’s take the WR position for starters. We currently only have 2 that are signed for next year, and we typically carry 5. This means that we can sign 3 new receivers with no one needing to be cut.
“Who do drop Jack if we keep 4-5 of our draft picks, and sign 3-4 guys out of FA then? Huh? Do you think the numbers will work out perfectly every year where we don’t cut any players? Get real man. It has to be somebody. You just don’t want to think ahead beyond what is in front of you. A problem you have which is not at all unique to you.”
Go through the list of Free Agents from our team last year, and you will find that there are still several that have not yet been re-signed. There is a pretty good bet that those not re-signed will be replaced by the draft picks or other free agents.
Look at my earlier post about how the front office can go after all of the players that they want to bring in, and still fit it under the cap.
The problem is, you have an agenda, I don’t. Your view on the cap situation is myopic due to your hatred for Crabtree and desire to let him go.
Too general Jack.
What players do you drop and why?
And yes. I want to get a better #1 WR than MC. I just don’t think MC would want that as much as you think he would.
And it isn’t just the salary cap Jack. You only have so many guys you can fit onto a roster.
So, you need or account for that as well. Every new player added who was not here last here means a player who was here last year is gone.
Congrats on the quoting. It helps read your fun way of looking at the world.
Hey Pork,
I’m trying to do this with a straight face. Why do you call DS DSL’s? lol
DS, of course some players will be gone. You asked for specifics so here goes.
Current FA’s:
Alex Smith – Resign
Adam Snyder – Resign
Josh Morgan – Resign
Ted Ginn – Only for low price as KR/5th receiver
Chilo Rachal – Bye bye
Justin Peele – Bye bye
Moran Norris – Bye bye
Brett Swain – Bye bye
Reggie Smith – Bye bye
Larry Grant – Yes, but will be tough due to good play last year. Another team may outbid. So maybe bye bye.
Madieu Williams – Bye bye
Tramaine Brock – Resign
Will Tukuafu – Bye bye
Tavares Gooden – Bye bye
Blake Costanzo – resign, special teams ace
This leaves 7-9 positions that will need to be filled through Free Agency/Draft. They also may bring in some others to challenge the backups.
The roster does not need a large purge like we saw last year. The majority of the changes will be to players on the edge already.
Jack
Agreed with exception of Tukuafu. Also, see of Ginn’s willing to stick around on another small contract.
Thank you for providing me a list Jack.
The only question I have…well 2 questions Is Mike Wallace a Jim Harbaugh kind of guy and why are you guys wanting to spend all this money an push up against the cap?
Answer to question one: DEFINITELY!
Answer to question two: BECAUSE IT COULD POTENTIALLY PUT THE NINERS OVER THE TOP!
It’s a nice thought Grant, but I’m just not so sure they’ll be THAT aggressive in going after a WR that, although very talented, has a somewhat slight chance of actually producing up to the level of his contract in the first year.
Is it wise to strip parts away from a highly-effective defensive unit (Haralson, Rogers) to add only one piece to a flawed offensive unit?
Don’t have to. $15M under it last year, still just a $600K fumbling 2nd year WR away from SB #6!!! It’s not either/or, but rather, who, why, & how much?
I’d rather have two weapons then one.
Sign Garcon, Draft Fleener
Sign Garçon and Burress. Draft Fleener. Remember, Burress almost came here last year…
–
Fleener & Burress in the RZ would be pretty sick.
Keep the pick ,sign Nicks ,F. Tag Goldston, re sign Morgan ,Costanzo,Ginn,Rodgers.Draft Coby Fleener, Doug Martin,mid round WR.
Love this one.
Carl Nicks is a badass.
Need a running back (VaTech, right?)
Love it.
Don’t need Rogers though.
David Wilson>Doug Martin? No??!
It should be a fun FA season. It’ll be fun watching what happens with Wallace and the Niners.
Haralson played ST for SF when he was a backup (behind Lawson, Banta-Cain, Brandon Moore) & starter (ditto Goldson, Ulbrich, et. al for Al Everest’s units). He’s blue-collar, like Ulbrich. Given he’s only 28, I would expect him to ask for his release in lieu of taking a pay cut.
…..according to my source…Alex is the No. 1 free agent…….
It’s funny. All of the elite qb’s are always priority number 1. Maybe jordan23 was on to something. Alex smith has no leverage. And the front office knows this and put him on the back burner. Now what elite qb gets that treatment? Not a one! Oh and btw…. Your still a pathetic lonely loser! Buahahahaahaa
You’re
@ ninermd
Now what elite qb gets that treatment?
You’d be surprised. The Saints are trying to lowball Drew Brees, and their GM tried to make the case at the scouting combine that Brees was a very good QB, but not a great QB.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/01/report-saints-want-to-pay-brees-like-a-very-good-but-not-great-qb/
@MD…
Poor timing, old chap! Bad luck!!!
…yea…funny dumb clown you really are ninermd….
Now what elite qb gets that treatment?
…..Below are the players the Saints have signed as future contracts free agents since the end of the 2011 campaign:
Josh Victorian, DB
Phil Trautwein, OT
Cord Parks, DB
Kamaal McIlwain, CB
Jeremiah Hunter, LB
Nick Howell, OG
Daniel Hardy, TE
……Guess Brees does get the treatment…..
you are a moroninc latin loser..eat that loserrr!!!… Buahahahaahaa!!!! (whatever that means)
@oneniner
That is a long list.
I have no idea who those guys are, but how much more money do the Saints have to get DB and anybody else including their draft picks?
Do you know?
Ha h haaaa Claude…. Here’s where you went wrong my friend. Saints trying to blackball breed? Who is number 1 on their list to resign? Bree’s! Contract disputes aren’t the same. Right now there is no contract dispute with smith. And their pro bowl O-lineman is sitting there waiting for a franchise tag or a big deal. Where is our OLB right now? Signed sealed and delivered! Why ? Because they Can’t lose him. Which means he was priority number 1.
Ha ha haaaaa onelame. How many signings have we made??????? How many are starters? Your the Moron that posted that dumb thought after their “first priority” was signed! Now who’s the dummy? That would be you and any idiot that’s agreeing with your dumb A$$! Saints are in negotiations right now. I don’t hear any news on smith. Goldson is next! Signings in importance order! Deal with it loser!
Ds says she doesn’t know who they are… That’s because they aren’t important. Nobody does. Nice try onelame!
Looked up these big names onelame posted for the saints. All I’m going to say is I laughed my a$$ off. Stretched that one out onelame. You get a pat on the back with a maybe next time. You get one too plb for not researching and buying that crap. Wrong timing homie. :-/
@md
Even if all 7 sign for the minimum amount, (is it 355,000?), that would mean $2.345 million is taken up.
And if there are some guys in there making 500,00 or more, then that $2.345 million goes up pretty quick. If half (3) are, and half (4)are
1.5+1.42 million = $2.92 million
That could be a stumbling block if the Saints are so close to the cap if they give DB what he wants. Plus you still have the rookies and others.
Yep except P Manning is on the back burner in Indy…lol. It business my friend.
Ds point is… The saints signed a bunch of bench warmers. Every team is doing the same. The nfl works this way. You sign or AT LEAST start negotiating with the important players first. The 49ers called off contract talks last season with smith. There’s a reason. Brooks is a starter and a very important piece to this team… Thus making him first priority. I’m sure smith will get signed somner or later, but fact is defense got us where we were last year.
@md
“The 49ers called off contract talks last season with smith. There’s a reason. ”
Huhh?
AS at the end of 2010 said he was done with SF. TB said at a press conference that the QB was not on the roster. Heavily implying that AS won’t be resigned.
Do you mean that “last year”?
Or do you mean when the Niners wanted to start talking to AS during the 2011 regular season about a contract extension, and AS being the type of guy he is wanted to just concentrate on winning right now and declined the invitation?
@DS….bleacherreport has a breakdown in terms $$ amounts…..
“Drew Brees, QB: $20 million (estimated)
Regardless of how Drew Brees gets paid in 2012 (long-term deal or being franchised), he’s going to make roughly the same salary. Brees has said he wants the Saints to be a winner and is willing to do things structurally to make that a reality. So the cap hit may not equal out to $20 million per year, but Brees will make at least this much from the Saints in 2012. “……
Perhaps Alex is happy with the $50M the team has already paid him and is all-in with whatever the team can manage in order to help get some talent around him at WR? That should be his attitude. “Thanks, you already paid me my big contract, now I’m just here for my rings”
I’ve been thinking that too! Alex has already gotten paid, now he’s playing for respect & championships. His contract will small guaranteed money, with heavy incentives.
Know what Pork, I am sure they will get him signed and I am sure it will be fair for both sides. All I want is fair competition at the QB position and the best man calling signals. I want that at ALL positions.
Harbaugh contradicted himself a bit at the golf event. All year we heard about iron sharpens iron, competition at all positions blah blah blah. Then at the golf event he made mention that Alex was his long term guy…. Something that I am sure confused Kaepernick who basically said he was there to win the starting job. ( which I love ) The kid has balls…..
Anyway it will be an interesting offseason. I for one do not think KW will make the cut this year either. How many fumbles has he had on reverses? He fumbled away a superbowl, and for all his 4.35 speed, how many DB’s has he run by? Well except for the one against the Giants that Alex choked on……
@Bay
Don’t you think they’ll try to get some value out of him? Maybe a throw-in on a trade to move up or something like that? If they let it go into summer camp they lose leverage as GMs will just wait for cutdown.
talking about KW…
@BAF
About KW, tough to say he doesn’t make the cut next year. He will be in 3rd yr of 4 yr rookie contract just above league minimum, he DOES have the 4.35 speed, and he handled his epic failure as well as anyone could. If those fumbles are teaching tools, he should never repeat them, and he can only be arrow up. It would be unlike Baalke to but ties with one of his guys absent a character issue, as he believes he can polish rough edges. Did it with Aldon & Culliver and say they’re doing it with Kaep. Anyone with eyes can see that Kyle Williams is explosive and plays with a chip on his shoulder; Harbaugh, Baalke, & Co. will be teaching him Zen during the off-season and he will reward them.
–
If you really want to break down the allocation of blame on those fumbles, you have to go up the chain all the way to Harbaugh. It’s obvious that KW wasn’t adequately prepared to be in that situation; were he a 6 yr vet and fumbled, that’s one thing, but a 2nd yr guy (basically a rook)… you have to point at Harbaugh a little, too.
I love Harbaugh but he did screw up there. The NFC championship game is not a situation you use as a learning tool.
@PBL, bay:
Forgive my ignorance, but what was the alternative?
@Balls
Kendall Hunter, Reggie Smith, Delanie Walker all had experience returning kicks. But if you’re Harbaugh and you really want to be sure, you send out VD and tell him to either fair catch it or get the hell away. That’s what you do on game day. VD is your captain and will do as you instruct.
–
Preferably, throughout the season you mix it up a little since you know Ginn is brittle. You use a stable of returners and you assess your strengths and weaknesses in games of lesser magnitude. Ginn was good last year, but aside from the Seattle game he didn’t break any to the zone. They’ll all learn from those mistakes in the return game.
@BAF
After it’s over it’s just another game, and yeah, you DO use it as a learning tool. You don’t eat the contract of a promising young WR when you need WRs and when it was partially your own hubris that allowed that kid to be put in that position to fail. You help him pick himself up, and if he responds like a man-about-the-team should respond, then I guarantee you he gets a much improved KW next season. Ultimately, however, it’s up to KW, and if he lacks the resilient gene, he’ll wash himself out of the league.
Grant,
I love your thoughtfulness, but I think you’re wrong! I think Baalke was telling the truth when he said (I’m paraphrasing) “all of our guys are of high priority. We don’t have a set order in which we want to sign them.” I think a value was set on certain players and they aren’t going to get away from that. In no logical football world does it make sense that Brooks was their “urgent” priority. I think Baalke is just letting the details of each individual contract play out, and when players sign, they’ll sign.
We will likely NOT spend big bucks on a receiver. We didn’t do it last year, and we probably won’t do it this year either. I think coach knows, better than anyone, why our receiving corps under-performed. He knows how to fix it with small changes (i.e. adjustments to playbook, lower cost free agents, quality rookies, etc.).
None of us knows for sure what will happen, but I don’t see our personnel department moving away from a strategy that worked so well for them last year. When the philosophical approach no longer proved brilliant, then they’ll make a change. Until then, true “blue-collar” hard workers.
What people seem to forget is this was our first year in Jim and Greg’s offense … and it was a unique situation due to the lockout where we did not get the time or reps we normally would … and yet Alex had a very good, not great year! Give him a full offseason, an added weapon at wr, and he will have a great year! Riddle me this, what does Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Matt Stafford have in common? Consistency in their system! Do a story charting the growth of QBs in early years in a system and then as they go along … give it a couple years boys, this is a marathon, not a race!
Niners Forever!
PS – I love backloading these contracts as Patrick Willis is front loaded with $17 mill this year so we should be able to handle the numbers boys … like the old McDonalds commercial … I’M LOVING IT!!!
@Canadian
“Consistency in their system!”
I have one for you as well.
How many “elite” QB’s ever leave the team they became “elite” on in the first place?
I’m betting in the past 30 years, fewer than 5. Why? Because the QB knows all the reasons why he is successful, and he knows he is only part of the reason. The coaches detail gameplans to suit the QB’s strengths, and yes, hide their weaknesses. His teammates all support him and by and large know the system rather well themselves. And, of course, the QB and the other players (drafted ones especially) know the system. The system does not get replaced one year after another. It just evolves.
AS has only had the “his teammates support him” part his whole career.
BS,
Smith didn’t get the support because he had the makings of a career bust. Some of his teammates quietly lost faith in him. Others were losing it. All kept their mouths shut.
In order to be successful in anything you do in life, you have to have confidence in yourself. Alex has struggled with that as a pro. JH came along just in the nick of time.
@jordan:
Some of his teammates quietly lost faith in him. Others were losing it.
Names or GTFO.
In order to be successful in anything you do in life, you have to have confidence in yourself. Alex has struggled with that as a pro.
Thank you, Dr. Katz. Tell us again, where did you got your psychology degree?
@claude
“In order to be successful in anything you do in life, you have to have confidence in yourself.
You also need to be courteous and kind as well. Otherwise, when the money and success dries out, nobody will want to be near you.
Geezus Jordan you never cease to amaze with your ignorance. You just stated something that has no basis in reality, like it was a piece of factual information everyone is privy to. Do you ever make points that are factual or is everything you write just off the top of your biased mind?
Ow rocket
I didn’t read it, but it must be really bad.
I guess I have a way to get under 23J’s skin for you to write that.
Claude,
You are a simple biotch. Find some other tail to chase jackazz!
Jordo, chill, bro. It don’t matter. Keep it mellow. Some folks are emotionally invested in Alex. Don’t be a guy who’s emotionally invested in “not-Alex.”. You’ve made your point ad nauseum.
Rocket,
Don’t be a Claude. That means don’t be a Jackazz.
@23jordan
Not again. Is it the whack a rumor mole time?
Plain and simple, people are asking to back up your statement:
“Some of his teammates quietly lost faith in him. Others were losing it. All kept their mouths shut.”
People are giving you a chance to rebuild your credibility. LOL
Last time you dragged down a couple of your pals with you with the BE rumor. They lost credibility too by agreeing w/ your BS. I can name them.
What’s the proofs this time?
AlbertS,
Keep your head up Amiths azz, I’m not Goung to drink the kool aid. Look at his numbers his 1st 6 years. I don’t need a sours. I can see and hear. You hold on to that blind faith you have in our average QB. Id like to see some competition for that job this year.
@23jordan
My stand is to go with the decision of Harbaugh.Alex or CK, it’s fine with me.
Well, seem like there are some people who have their heads up your azz, to use your own term, and happily spread your rumors. Things you cannot back up.
People are challenging false rumors and bad infos.
Why avoid answering a direct question?
Just man up and say you make things up. LOL
All the things being said about Wallace are true…he would be a great addition to the receiving corps. But…the Steelers will do whatever it takes to hang onto him. Even if they have to put a tender on him, any team signing him will have to forfeit a 1st rd pick. It might be worth it, but I don’t think it’ll come to that. A number of Steelers have already restructured their contracts…they just cut Hines Ward…there could be others, too. BL: all this talk about Wallace is just that…I’ll be extremely surprised if the Steelers don’t find a way to keep him. He’s one of Big Ben’s major playmakers…they won’t let him go if there’s any way whatsoever to keep him in Pittsburgh.
problem is they are like $30 M over the cap so the Steelers are limited in what they can do despite the desire to keep all their players.
the word i keep hearing here is back loaded back loaded back loaded. doesnt any one remeber the cap hell the 49ers went through twice [i dont remember the yrs] but we had to decimate our roster 2 different times because of back loaded contracts. i worry if we are back loading numerous contracts to sign one big name FA that we might win big the next couple of yrs but then go through 3 or 4 yrs of rebuilding. we were 1 fumbled punt away from the super bowl with the roster we already have. you will notice the teams that win yr in yr out IE; the pats the steelers dont mortgage the future for the present. the steelers are a perfect example they may lose wallace but they wont have to purge their entire roster. sign your own fa’s and draft well thats how you win consistently in the nfl
@ old coach:
I share your concern, but the recent contracts seem to be better structured than they were in the past. It wasn’t so much that the past contracts were backloaded that was the problem; it was the huge upfront signing bonuses in those contracts. Cutting an overpaid player didn’t help much with the salary cap because the team still had to account for the unallocated portion of the signing bonus. With the recent contracts, the team doesn’t seem to be paying huge sums for signing bonuses that must be accounted for in future years’ salary cap calculations.
Plus, when the new TV deals kick in in 2014, the salary cap is supposed to explode upward. Pushing money to that year and those that follow makes sense.
Good post; well said
@old coach
The salary cap will increase 20-30 million.
Lets just say 25 million for the sake of the argument.
25 million is enough to pay for 4-5 Franchise Tagged DG’s. Or more than 2 Wallaces. Even 1 Drew Brees. So, if you are worried about CR or somebody taking up lots of valuable cap room towards the end of the contract, then you shouldn’t be.
True, every team will have the same higher cap limit, but it is still a huge deal. Especially since the Niners have a lot to spend this year, and in a few years when the cap goes up.
Old Coach,
Good point, but I think the difference here is the Niners are leaving themselves with outs before every season. The Brooks deal was very deceiving in that he really is guaranteed only 8.5 mill. The rest is based on a yearly decision by the team. They can cut the chord with him at any time and not be on the hook for huge dead money on the cap.
I expect the other deals to be the same although maybe not as structured toward performance as Brooks seems to be.
Also as Claude pointed out, the cap is going to skyrocket in a couple of years when the new TV money becomes available so cap hell is really not going to apply to anyone in this league very soon.
I just read the details of Brook’s contract and the player never sees most of the back end. He receives a signing bonus of 8.5 mill and a season salary of 750 thousand the first year. There are also incentives written in. If he continues to improve and his productivity increases, in a few years it will be a bargain.
Thanks, Andrew. That was my impression of how it works, you spelled it out.
miaocco wrote yesterday that he didnt think the 49ers would be able to keep both willis and bowman once bowmans first contract ran out so i think the cap might be tighter than people think
@old coach
All the more reason to go for it now then.
after 9 yrs of football hell i really want to see the 49ers become the kind organization that stays at or near the top for a decade or more. not a flash in the pan like ariz or chi
after 9 yrs of football hell i really want to see the 49ers become again the kind organization that stays at or near the top for a decade or more.
Fixed.
I agree old coach.
It’s just that if that is true, then the current strength of this team, its defense (LB’s especially) would likely go down.
Which in itself isn’t a horrible thing. Looking at the LB core of a lot of Super Bowl teams the last decade or so, not many have been above average. And certainly none compare to ours in the slightest.
@ OC
Maiocco’s not as smart as people make him out to be. They’ll keep this LB core together for as long as they want to. PWs contract eases over the next couple of years while the Cap skyrockets. If Bowman warrants it, they’ll reward him.
when it comes to what goes on between the lines i think all media scribes are woefully under educated but what goes on inside the organization they have sources that we the avg fan dont. when it comes to their football opinions i generally ignore them. thats what i find so funny about people who quote greg cosell
old coach,
I think the reasoning behind that is: you don’t pay two guys at the same position huge money in long term deals. As it is, Bowman is a Niner for at least 3 more years. Two under contract and then one as a RFA where they can tender him and get a pick if someone signs him to a deal they don’t want to match.
matt barrows wrote this morning he thinks its likely that as the price for wallace goes up the 49ers will drop out. over paying for a FA goes against the 49ers philosophy
Here is the Brook’s contract from NBC Sports;
Brooks received $7.5 million to sign, and his $750,000 base salary for 2012 is fully guaranteed. (Then again, as pointed out last night, the first-year base salary is always as a practical matter guaranteed, because no player gets cut in the first year of a multi-year deal, especially where the base salary represents 10 percent of the signing bonus.)
That’s the extent of the fully guaranteed money in Brooks’ contract.
In 2012, Brooks also will receive a per-game active roster bonus of $31,500 — which for the full season becomes $500,000, and he’s eligible for a workout bonus of $100,000.
For 2013, Brooks has a $4.3 million base salary with an injury guarantee on signing. As of April 1, 2013, the salary becomes fully guaranteed, if Brooks is still on the roster.
The $4.3 million base salary also contains a so-called de-escalator; it can drop by up to $2.5 million based on Brooks’ sack production (or lack thereof) in 2012. The salary also can increase by up to $500,000. The deal contains for 2013 a $46,875 per-game active roster bonus ($750,000 for the year), and a $100,000 workout bonus.
In 2014, the base salary increases to $5.15 million. Of that amount, $4.95 million is guaranteed for injury only at signing. If Brooks is on the roster as of April 1, 2014, the $4.95 million becomes fully guaranteed. There’s a $2.5 million de-escalator tied to sacks in 2013; the de-escalator for 2014 goes away if the de-escalator applies in 2013. (Yep, I already have a headache.) The contract also contains another $46,875 per-game active roster bonus and a $100,000 workout bonus.
For 2015, a $6 million base salary could become partially guaranteed based on a complex formula of “ifs” and “ors.” The main factor for any base salary guarantee in 2015 is that Brooks must be on the roster as of April 1 that year. There’s also a de-escalator of up to $2.5 million based on 2014 sacks. The $46,875 per-game active roster bonus and the $100,000 workout bonus apply once again.
In 2016, the base salary is $6.5 million, with another de-escalator of up to $2.5 million based on 2015 sacks. Ditto for the $46,875 per-game active roster bonus and the $100,000 workout bonus.
In 2017, everything is the same, with the base salary moving to $6.95 million.
So it’s a one-year, $8.25 million fully-guaranteed contract with another $9 million or so in injury guarantees and an annual team option to pull the plug and move on.
@Andrew
Hardly seems to be the #1 FA signing some here suggested then.
@Andrew:
Thanks for providing and organizing all that information. From a quick scan of what you wrote, it appears that the team did not overpay for Brooks (he gets big money only if his production warrants it) and can get out from the contract almost painlessly anytime after the 2012 season.
so what does he count against the cap the first year…..1.35 mill plus (7.5 mill / 6) = 2.6 mill is that correct ….
and now with goldson franchise tag that is another 6.2 mill
assuming 33 mill cap space to begin with…..the niners are down to about 23 mill cap space left after the spillman signing…is that about right
@ claude balls thanks for the assist
@ds9 the current stregnth of this team i believe is that we’re a pretty damn good team. the D is better than the O right now but i think with a full offseason with JH and a little tinkering with the offensive end of the roster this team is setting its self up for the long run.
@old coach
:- )
Niners plan to put the franchise tag on Dashon Goldson according to the following report:
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=2&cid=1163781&nid=6152912&fhn=1
Grant
Time for a new thread?
Thx,
PBL
DS what is this personal hatred you have towards MC? Alex under performed for 6 years as a #1 pick and you still always defended him, yet you hate MC and want him released and he’s only under performed for 3, with part of the reason for him under performing is because of Smith . Please elaborate.
@Adam707
You’ve been gone a little while.
I have written a lot about it already. Have you looked it over? If not, please do.
And, I don’t hate MC. I just don’t think he is remotely worth what we are paying him. And I don’t think he would renegotiate his salary to stay here either. There has been a long held belief that MC never wanted to be here,and in 3 years, he has done little to go out of his way to prove that wrong. So put it all together and you get what I would do.
Go this website and look at his contract and other teams WR’s as well. Look at the “good passing teams”. The Pack, Giants, Saints, whomever. Look at the pay they are giving and look at the production they are getting.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/michael-crabtree/
Minus the big name guys (LF), you will find MC is getting paid an awful lot of money for little impact on games.
If the Niners are forced into a position to have to cut a player to sign Wallace per say, they should not choose to keep MC over signing Wallace in my opinion. And if they have to drop a player who looks to have lots of promise (like a rookie), they should keep him instead.
Anyway. Look at that webpage for awhile. The belief that MC is getting paid like an average #2 WR is ludicrous.
And, MC stank it up in the playoffs. AS did not. Playoffs are where legends get born. And MC did not come out smoothly.
Hey DSL’s,
do you realize that MC has gotten better every year for three years straight with the lowest producing QB in all of football?
Do you realize that MC had the best WR receiving totals in 9 years? Not since T.O. have these type of numbers been put up by a WR. And he would have had more had Alex not missed him so many times this year. Also had he not dropped a small amount of passes.
Just trying to help you out little buddy so that you don’t look so inept when trying to discuss football in a room full of football folks…..
Oh and your hero #11. Never had a 1000 receiver. EVER since 2005. Same QB that under QB Guru JH was the only NFL QB starter to not have a 300 yard game…… Buh Bye…..
>>do you realize that MC has gotten better every year for three years straight with the lowest producing QB in all of football?
bay, he damn well should have gotten better from year 1 to year 2 after his rookie diva move and showing nothing after his holdout.
Year 2 to last year? Could it be that he was basically the last receiver standing by seasons end? He gets “better” just by virtue of showing up.
I have high hopes for him this year. As long as he doesn’t go into a funk realizing the Niners are bringing in someone else as the #1 goto guy.
When’s his contract year? That’s when I expect him to really shine.
By the way, I don’t buy the 6 vs 3 seasons thing at all.
I compared game experience.
You subtract the whole year AS missed. You subtract what AS did the last 4 games he played in year 3 when he was injured and should not have been out there and that horrible first year where nothing could possibly have been evaluated, and the games played difference is actually less than 1 season. Not 3 seasons.
Add to that all of AS’s OC’s, systems, and HCs’s. And MC has had it a lot easier while being on a lot better team from Day 1 than AS had on his Day 1.
MC’s impact on the game is limited by average QB play
Your opinion Nick. And you are welcome to it.
Why isn’t VD’s play limited then as well? If MC has as much talent as VD (one of the best TE’s in the game) then why hasn’t MC taken advantage of it like VD has?
Whether you like or hate MC he has improved every season. Yes Crabtree had alot of drops this yea, but that was him taking his eyes off the ball to soon and stuff like that, things he can fix, but there were count less times Smith missed him on wide open wheel routes that would have been 40-50 yard gains. Yes it is understandable to miss one or two but to miss as many as Alex has in unacceptable. Alex will fix that stuff this off season i believe. And getting a big FA wideout will only make MC better. He will be covered by teams number 2 corner and he will be able to probably play some slot WR as well. If MC has a 1000+ 7 or 8 TD season next year will you be able to change your opinion of him?
@Adam707
“If MC has a 1000+ 7 or 8 TD season next year will you be able to change your opinion of him?”
You’re missing my point here Adam.
(Is there something Grant is doing that makes it impossible for people to read what I want to see out of a #1 WR even though I keep writing it?)
I don’t care about stats Adam. You should know that about me by now.
Go check out VD’s numbers this year next to MC’s. They are not even remotely close. In addition, VD had the same problem dropping balls, and at times looking kinda lost out there during the regular season. Look at my posts during the season. I bashed VD quite a bit there (also notice that nobody hater or smither really cared).
But, when we got to the playoffs, VD showed up big-time. 4TD’s in 2 games. The game winner in NO. Setting up the game winner against NO. VD was on fire. Also no drops. If AS could get it to him, he was gold.
So, he was big in big games. That is what MC was not. How many passes did MC catch in that NO game down the stretch? Where was he on that final great drive? AS was on target. VD was getting open. Where was MC?
“The Drive” to win Super Bowl XXIII, everybody got in on that. It was magnificnet. JR, JT, RC, all of them stepped it up. What WR stepped it up on that big drive Adam?
Then MC completely vanished against NY. A game where the Giants dared MC that he could not beat them 1-on -1, and he couldn’t. But somehow VD still managed to get 2TD’s and make big plays. That tells me that VD is the kind of guy I want.
I don’t care if MC or VD got 2,500 yards in the regular season or if they had 100 yards in the regular season. Make big plays in the playoffs, and that is all I care about. Make the catch to win the game, and all of your drops will be forgiven by me (maybe not the GM, but by me, yes they will).
I want them to show up when we need them too. That is how you win championships. MC didn’t show up. I don’t think he will win us a championship judging by what I saw. And I can only judge a player by what happened. Not what I wanted to have happen. And after the game, he sure didn’t help me think any better of him.
Hate on MC all you want the fact is he is going to be a Niner for a few more years so all this hatred will get you know where. You do know we dont win the Saints game without MC dont you? He had a TD and even though he had some big drops he had one of the three key blocks that lead to Alex’s TD run. And in the NYG game the only person who showed up offensively was VD.
Yes Adam707
MC played well in the first quarter when he scored his TD.
Then the next 7 he didn’t play well at all.
And, whose to say another WR can’t make a block. I don’t keep a WR because he can block. It is a requirement that he blocks. It is also a requirement that he catches the ball.
MC pretty much ended one drive against NO when he dropped 2 stragiht passes. Whose to say we don’t score some points or a TD on that drive if had not dropped those passes?
A better case can be made for KW making the key block on AS TD run when he took out a DE late in the 4th quarter. Had it not been for that block, there is a good chance the Niners don’t even make it to the title game.
VD can’t show up without a QB. And AS had quite a few big runs in that game as well putting the Niners into scoring position, and getting them out of trouble on more than one occasion. 2TD’s, 0Int’s is hardly a no-show. MC had fewer catches than AS had TD’s.
Games are won by making plays in the 4th quarter. Rarely in the first quarter. Look no further than MV of the Eagles for evidence of that this past year.
We are talking of the same play, but the MC block was just as important as the KW play. I’m not arguing trying to say MC played well because he didnt, he played lousy. But i’m not wanting to get rid of a player who is currently our best receiver. IDK why we argue this because the niner front office thinks the same way i do about this situation, they like him and realize he’s an asset to the team and getting rid of him will only make the receiving core worse.
*MC block was just as important as the KW block.
Adam707, you can’t change the mind of a someone who hates on a player as much as DS does Crabtree. You’re observations are all spot on btw.
@Adam
I just watched the analysis of that play, and AS talked about Staley’s great block and the analysts talked about KW great block.
I did see MC’s block, and it was good. But, as long as MC just got in the way, it looked to me like AS would have beaten that guy because AS got around the corner so quickly and was past MC’s guy largely due to KW’s block.
But good call Adam707. It was a decent block that nobody really talked about. Was that all from memory?
“IDK why we argue this because the niner front office thinks the same way i do about this situation,…”
Reason 1. It is the off seaason. There is no game to talk about having been played and no game to talk about coming up.
Reason 2. I don’t actually think that FO thinks that. It all depends on how you interpret TB’s statements about the WR’s. One interpretation is your opinion, the other is mine.
If the Niners get 2 or even 3 WR’s who are just as good via draft/FA as MC, why keep MC? I just don’t see the reason to keep the guy around because he was our best WR last season when our WR’s was pitiful. Partly due to injury (JM) and partly due to experience (KW). I don’t think MC can start on practically any other playoff team, when there are multiple WR’s on each team who play simultaneously.
And I didn’t say flat out to dump MC. Get somebody better. Or 2/3 people better. Or maybe we already have or will have some of those guys. You never just cut a player outright unless you have a plan to get somebody who is at least close enough in skill to replace him. That would be stupid.
Get more WR’s in here. Evaluate what they can do/their potential and figure out who is worth what. If I can get a player to sign a 3 year deal and pay him like $1.2 million a year and he is as good or better than MC who is going to count against the cap $5-$6 million each year for the next two years, why would I keep MC because he was our best WR last year again?
Everybody here wants to get CK to compete for the the QB job ASAP. We need to get MC to earn his job for once. AS beat out CK last year for the starting job. MC needs to beat some new guys out this year. No more free hand-outs for the 4th year starting WR.
“But good call Adam707. It was a decent block that nobody really talked about. Was that all from memory?”
-Not sure if you mean this sincerely or not but nonetheless yes i know it from memory. I played many years as a lineman so i enjoying watching running plays that are blocked perfect. The three key blocks on the play are the KW crack block on will smith, the MC seal on Tracy Porter and the Staley pull and cut block. I believe the MC block is over looked especially with the degree of difficulty that block can be. He starts inside then wheels out and reach blocks him and gets outside leverage. IMO the TD doesn’t happen without him.
In my opinion it would be best for MC if we were to bring in a Wallace or VJax or Bowe or any WR that can come in and take the #1 WR role. I think Crab is best suited at the the 2nd receiver slot, i dont think there is any #2 corners that will be able to lock him down. Now it looks like the Niners will not be resigning Joshua Morgan so that would leave us with MC and KW as the only receivers under contract. Getting rid of MC and bringing in a whole new receiving core i think would be a set back for Alex. Him and MC started to get a little more chemistry as the season went on (Not in Playoffs). But if MC has an injury right before camp and doesn’t play pre season then yes i would agree with you and say trade him.
@Adam707
“Not sure if you mean this sincerely or not but nonetheless yes i know it from memory. ”
Yes I did mean it sincerely.
About the block; you would know better than I would, and the supposed “experts” would know better than you would. But some “experts” really suck, so if you are right, then MC didn’t get the credit he deserved. To me, I don’t see that defender MC was blocking catching up to AS without AS having to cut-back into the middle of the field, and AS never did. But if you’re right, kudos to MC on that play. Learn something new every day.
As for your plan, it sounds pretty decent. I just don’t think we could get anything for MC. Trading players in the NFL is a rare thing, for whatever reason. It’s not like the NBA where there is always a trade happening. And I don’t know how willing MC is to re-negotiate his contract. I am basing this largely on his hold-out and reports that he never wanted to come here in the first place and he may use this as leverage to be released and play for a Texas team. It is all speculation, but so is any post that is not just a bunch of stats.
I do wonder after the postseason VD had, will he automatically attract the other teams #1 CB leaving MC (or any WR) with the defenses #2 WR.
I remember during the Philly game they were putting Nnamdi on VD alot. Teams may begin to do a variation of that if our WR core doesnt improve this offseason. But I dont see many teams with a #2 CB capable of shutting down MC.
I’m kinda off subject here, but I love how some folks use initials for players, such as MC, AS, VJax, PH, JH, and so forth, but the funny thing is, their posts are usually as long as a fricken novel, hahaha!! I think it’s great how some will take the time to post a “dissertation” on the developments of Trent Baalke, Alex Smith, or any other player for that matter, but can’t take the time to spell out their name?! Also, it can be kind of confusing at times. I mean, mostly I know who it is, especially the usual suspects, but for the not-so-usual, I have to read the context of the post to know for sure. So here’s a wee lil test AND BE HONEST. Straight out the gates … do you know exactly … EXACTLY!!! who I’m talking about or did it take you a second to figure it out:
Man DW is one of my favorite players!! He’s most definitely gonna turn it up a notch in 2012. Also, I’m looking forward to seeing more of LG. He’s gonna be a beast!! I’m hoping they work on honing and developing RS’s skills. He’s showed a lot of promise!! And what’s the deal with SS? JY and CO. are trippin for keeping him around. Also, here’s to hoping we get another JM or SY type player!! We need a Super Bowl!!
“JM”
Oh. You mean Joshua Morgan.
lol
HAHA!!! My fault. I transposed the Letters .. it was supposed to be MJ. We get a Michael Jordan type player?! Championship!! lol!
Funny
Completely changes the meaning.
From (I assumed JM and SY) two Niner QB’s to a basketball player.
Speed burner receivers? Riffing on QBs throwing the ball 60 yards?
Are all the Jr. GMs here taking a page from Al Davis and trying to turn the 49ers into the vertical Raiders of yore? Geez, where’s Daryle Lamonica when you need him.
That’s not this team, it’s all about ball control, ball control, ball control.
I predict we will never try to get someone like Wallace, get into a bidding war with teams that do have a vertical philosophy, let alone forfeit a 1st rounder for it.
Great point ribico. You rarely see QB’s throw the ball more than 20-30 yards downfield in a game. It’s about timing and accuracy both of which Smith needs to improve upon, but he did improve on last year.
As to this topic, sorry Grant but I have to disagree with you again. I see no way the Niners, who have repeatedly stated the need and importance of building through draft, go out and burn a #1 draft pick and a big contract on a WR.
I’ve watched Harbaughs offenses from the time he was at the U of San Diego and one thing is consistent: he values TE’s more than WR’s. He likes to run the ball and throw it to the TE’s. The WR’s will get their share over the course of a season, but not to the extent that they would give up what it would take to get Wallace.
I could see them taking a run at Jackson possibly but I’d guess they won’t get into the bidding war that will develop for his services and ultimately will sign a lesser guy and focus on adding a couple of WR’s in the draft.