Coby Fleener just ran an unofficial 4.45 40-yard dash at his Pro Day and emerged as the Niners’ no-brainer first round pick if he’s still available for them in the upcoming NFL draft.
To compare, Rob Gronkowski, the Patriots super tight end, ran a 4.65 at his Pro Day, and the Saint’s super tight end Jimmy Graham ran a 4.53 at his Combine. There are very few six-foot six-inch people who can run a 4.4.
The Niners should not draft for need and take a right guard in the first round. That would be the mistake. The Niners need another skill position play maker to help improve the whole offense on third down and in the red zone first and foremost. That’s Fleener.
Fleener’s a really good player and he played for Harbaugh. He knows the Niners’ system and he could play right away.
Draft Fleener in the first round and a guard in the second round. That’s what the Niners should do.
Here are three guards the Niners could draft in the second round:
Amini Silatolu (6-3, 324 lbs., Midwestern State), Kevin Zeitler (6-4, 315 lbs., Wisconsin), and Kelechi Osemele (6-6, 347 lbs., Iowa State).
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HHHHEEEELLLLZZZZ YYYEEEAAAAHHHH!!!!!
Fleener was my first pick weeks ago still is.
Mine too!
Take him if he’s there. But after that clocking, no way he lasts that long. No way. Niners would have to trade up.
Use DW to trade up he only has one year left. Then we can save our other picks to fill our only needs of guard and center.
He may be there at 30. With the rush on free agent wide-outs that could open up the field. If the right person is there I think the Niners go guard.
I need a new name. Any suggestions?
GC, he’ll probably be chosen between 20 and 28. At that point, the 9ers should take the BPA from the CB, WR, RB or G positions.
If he’s on the board in the mid-20s, Baalke should strongly consider trading up. The Niners don’t desperately need a full draft class – they’ve got a stacked roster. They need an impact player on offense.
Do you have any idea what it would take to jump up 10 spots in the first round? Think about that and tell me if you think the Niners would do that?
I said they should consider trading up five to seven spots if Fleener’s still available. I’m not convinced this pushes him into the top 25.
Dominic, here’s what you need to determine that. It’s a “trade value” chart: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
Looks like the 49ers would have to give up their second round pick to move up from 30 to 20. Probably not worth it.
There is absolutely NO WAY he will drop below 15… NO CHANCE!!!
–
Kiss Coby Goodbye!
I don’t know if it’s not worth it, but I don’t believe its something the Niners would do. Why would they give up a second round pick, to draft a TE in the first round? I get the whole argument that the Niners are a TE heavy team, but we have a very good set of TE’s already. If Fleener was close to the 30th pick, then I could see it. But if he is taken early 20′s, I can’t bring myself to see the Niners giving up a 2nd round pick to grab him. And a team who has that pick can always leverage for more. So yeah, its not happening. Fleener will not be a Niner.
GC, I agree but they would prob compete moving up and hopefully not over pay moving up like they did when drafting ADavis.
Besides,even if he is still there at a reasonable spot to move up to,that won’t cost an arm and a leg,do we really need another TE on the roster ? We have VD,Alex’s fav target and Walker who is a consistent play maker and the kid coming back from injury that should be a really good blocking TE and can catch too.
Or do you think with the Niners he would play more like a WR ? The Niners love them some big tall and strong WR’s ,who can run !
Fleener’s better than Walker and Byham. He can line up all over the field – Y, H-back, X, slot.
OK Grant,if he IS guaranteed better than Walker and Byham ,is he really great enough to go away from an area of real need (RB,WR,RG etc),and pay additional high draft picks to get him ? I am not against it but I know we need a RG and WR for the future and a RB or two for the future. If you give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick to jump up and get Fleener then you give away a future starter at one of those spots with that trade.
Great question. The way I see it, Fleener doubles as a wide receiver, anyway. He can line up at tight end or split end or slot. Right guard is a need but it’s just right guard. They can get a good enough right guard in free agency for a one year contract or draft one in the second or third round. As far as running back goes, Baalke could afford to wait one more year to address that position in the draft.
junkies, i like..
Hopefully we land him or, GC, who will be overlooked if such hype goes to Fleener? Another prospect perhaps worth trading up for(concur, don’t need full draft); we trade the 2nd pick away and get a 3rd in return by give up #15, CB #36 (both replaceabe). Bottom line is there is probably 1 G who will go real early, 2nd and 3rd round G’s are hit n miss, or take time to develop.
Grant:
You and several others are about to get blasted. Two or three weeks back when I, repeat “I” made the same suggestion re: Fleener, man did I get unloaded on. I said then (and am happy to repeat) with Fleener you get everything-plus: Tight End, In Line Blocker, H-Back, and Wide Receiver. I said then, and I say it again – “There is no wide receiver in this draft that brings as much to the table as Fleener. Not one.”
Everybody and his brother jumped on me with “He’s a tight end and we have tight ends” like I don’t already know that. Said it before, I say again – Stop looking strictly at position, period. Look at what this kid brings to the table. Glad to see everyone who was asleep on Fleener is waking up. What really got every body was my suggestion that “…Baalke should do whatever it takes to get Fleener….” and that included trading up or whatever. I still believe that.
Are you kidding me — at 4.45 and 6’6″ just quick calling him a TE – LOL – and call it like it is – a receiver. I’d take him all day long over the project Stephen Hill. Coby has great hands and ability to make acrobatic catches (great concentration), can’t be sure of that with the big receivers in the draft this year.
No. Don’t trade up. Don’t overdraft or reach for a player.
Ben Watson, Greg Olsen and Kellen Winslow Jr ran similar 40-times and where are they now? Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernnandez, Owen Daniels, Fred Davis, Chris Cooley— the list goes on. All good TE’s drafted in later rounds.
Niners have a greater need at center – given Goodwin’s age and at guard.
Mayock was talking about the TE’s the other day and predicted none of the TE’s would be first rounders. He also said the TE class was thin. If he’s right, he should be there for us!
You have to take into account the general consensus in the draft. If Fleener falls to #30 the general feeling would be that he is a second round pick regardless if Jersey takes him at 32.
i forgot to add cartwright (seen em with skins) will be a pleasent surprise, nearly tough as dixon & with fluid hips of a boxer, not just a special teamer, hopefully can turn n burn for me 9rs.
Fleener to the Giants seems to be the rumor du jour.
@Adam
I’m pretty sure the SB winning giants draft behind us so we could easily prevent them from getting him. This pick really seems like a no brainer if he is there get him and trade DW
Trade DW? You can’t be serious.
cue msc with his favorite “Naked Gun” quote….
the only reason, imo, the niners would move up to get fleener would be because he has played in JH’s/roman system and familiarity breeds success, or was that contempt, and the ROI would presumably be quicker ….. and then i would only give up a 3rd and if necessary a 5th….too many other needs (RG and RB) to actually make a statement pick with the TE and this is why i would want to keep the 2nd round pick….maybe i would add next years 3rd round pick if needed to sweeten the package (this years 1st and this yrs 3rd and next yrs 3rd gets one to the 20th pick vicinity thumbnail-wise since these draft value charts are just a guideline ….. if did get fleener that would be a lot of 1st round picks along the offensive line, not a problem for me, just sayin……next year need to keep the 1st and 2nd round for depth and playmakers….
wonder what the niners really think of walker since he is in his contract year i believe…..and what kind of TEs are projected next year…..
now it comes down to is what do the niners think the other teams ahead of them needs are…..who really wants TE and who wants WR…which teams really would gun for a TE based on what kind of offensive philosophies and what do they have already…guess that will be my focus…..
I’ve never seen him play. How well can he block, Grant? If we pick him, he’s going to need to be multiple in his capabilities (blocking, route running, catch/RAC)
No he won’t. He is a new breed of dynamic TE’s that are 6-6 and stretch the defense. Just like I don’t want Aldon dropping into coverage on pass plays (Rush the QB please) I don’t want Fleener blocking on pass plays. He is a slot TE and would be a fantastic addition to our offense. You think of him as a receiver not a TE.
exactly!
u are right yet but don’t u think 6’6 245-250 dude training w/ VD will be a better blocker than #46.
Right now, he’s a terrible blocker.
Red Zone & 3rd Down % goes up!
interesting train of thought….seems kind of weird that a JH bred TE at stanford didn’t focus on blocking a bit more…..this could be an issue in a TE centric power offense….especially for a TE who needs to block and seemingly has a chronic little right ankle issue…you need ankles for leverage angles blah, blah, blah…….
They’ll probably have to trade up to get him but it would be worth it.
I totally agree, I was on board with him from the start, but I doubt
the niners have much of a chance to get him.
Yeah, I wasn’t so sure at first about this…but Fleener, Davis, Moss, Manningham, Crabtree,…oh my.
yep, unfortunately entire nfl knows and unless we get someones underbelly teams will want our 2nd pick before they allow us to compile suck a tandem. – #15 and 2nd pick to move up is fine by me but i would like a 3rd or an early 4th round pick not just 1 1st round pick for our 1st and 2nd.
Hahahaha!!! It is not going to happen. This kid is going to be the first TE taken off the board. He’ll be long gone before we get to turn our card in. Trust me. We really need to think about players that will be available and stop planting false hopes into the fan base. Just my opinion. :)
It’s not out of the question at all that he is still on the board, though with that pro day it is more unlikely. I think the depth at wide receiver in this draft pushes him down more, and if Mark Ingram can make slide to 28, then Coby can slide to 30, and trading up in the first is not out of the question, so long as we don’t have to reach too far up.
Is Al Davis now writing this blog??
You tend to write about me instead of football. I’m flattered.
And you tend to delete my posts & id’s because you can’t handle a little criticism. A tad immature I think.
Anyhow, Al Davis’ obsession with workout statistics did not translate to team success.
Neither would yours.
I have been saying it for months: He will not last past the low 20′s. Everyone knew he would blow the roof off his pro day and he did. The guys was the 3rd fastest player on Stanford.
@ Grant
Seriousy, see Dominic’s post. This is good knowledge to provide the fanbase, but to say the Niners must do what it takes to jump to the 20s to get him ignores the fact that he will be gone by #15.
Steven Hill: 6’4″ ; 4.36 ; played in a weird offensive system
Coby Fleener: 6’6″ ; 4.45 ; played in a pro system with Andrew Luck
I’d be surprised if he isn’t gone by #10, come to think of it.
By #10? Common now. Look at the top 15 prospects in the draft and the teams picking in the top 15. He will make it past 15, after that its anyone’s guess.
Right again,top 15 ….hello!!!????
You look!!! Check the Rams. Fleener just vaulted WAY up the board. sub 4.5 is ridiculous for a guy that size. He will be unguardable. Even I know that. And I’m sure you do too.
@Mike:
Agree with you that Fleener won’t make it past 15.
I won’t repeat all I wrote up above to Grant, but back when I said all the things being said now about how crucial it is to get Fleener (and got my ears pinned back for it) I really caught it by suggesting the Niners do a trade with whoever was selecting around Slot 15. Truth be known, I feel just as strong about getting Fleener now as I and all the rest of us did about getting our linebacker PWilly – in fact even stronger.
If Flenner is a top 15 pick and the Niners try and jump up (which I don’t think so) for him, I’d rather see them put the energy into Decastro, if he’s still around.
I’m not debating whether they should or not. I would love to have Fleener on the team. I’m just saying that I don’t think the Niners are the kind of team that would give up that much to grab a TE in the first round. He is an amazing player, but the Niners play their cards pretty conservative for the most part. And he isn’t a promised superstar. So I just don’t see it happening. I would love to have the kids though for sure.
Do you think Blackmon, Floyd, Hill, Wright and Fleener will all get drafted before pick 30?
Maybe not Wright, but he’s not worth it anyway. Too small. Already have KDub & Manningham. Need Hill or Streeter.
–
Of course, Wright will be gone too, but IMO he is a 2/3rd round guy. Don’t care about his stats. Care that he was with RG3 on a subpar team. Wright is wrong for us.
@Dominic
I have to agree.
Agreed,Love Fleener but probably won’t move up alot to get him,jump NY by two slots maybe.
No way
Any chance to draft him officially ended today with that workout!!!
He will not be there when the niners draft
If Fleener is available, its fine. We got 2-3 capable tight ends the way it is now. We could use another WR first and or a G. I like Stanton from the Jets. Im sure they will ask 2 much, even tho the paid him 1.25 million for one year as a back up number 2. Hed b a 3 for my niners so he mite not wanna come here. Dont know y we missed out on G. Swhartz unless we plan on drafting one or two and want youth. I watched Stanton play, and he is a gunslinger. Doubt it, but speculating. . Fleener would b sweet and if he is 6ft 6 and runs under 4.5, id make the guy my Wr! Vd and Delanie, Fleener, Manningham, Moss, Crabtree, Gore, Hunter. LOOKOUT! Plus u could mix it up. At 30th pick it bites, cause all the for sure talent is gone, and then we are tacking jabs at whos left. Get that line fixed, draft a playmaker wr and rb, then hit a lb, and de or dl, and lets dominate next year! hoo hoo! http://www.facebook.com/THORN4MEMORY
Or give up our 1st & 4th for early 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. (Madden teaches Game Theory*)
4.45 with wind
4.51 against wind
and is his right ankle chronic
…I like….very much
…but baltimore needs a TE badly……I predict they get him
Ravens don’t need a tight end oneniner.check # 84 and 88. 2 very good tight ends for the Ravens. 88 caught a TD against us. Ed Dickson from Oregon is 84. Young athletic tight end. They aren’t going anywhere.
Fleener would make a bigger impact sooner than any wr we could draft at 30. Plus there are a bunch of WR needy teams drafting right in front of us so we will get the 4th-5th best wr as opossed to the best TE at 30. Lets be real here its a copycat league with graham and gronk dominating everyone will be looking for a 6’6 TE who can run. Would LOOOVE to have him but probably not gonna happen imo
If by some miracle Fleener is still available at our spot then I could see it happening. Otherwise, if we’re going to make a big move up it’s going to be for DeCastro. Also there’s still the option of using our low first round pick to go after Wallace.
Which team would draft Fleener before, say, the Broncos @ 25? Which team would draft Fleener over Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill?
…baltimore ravens will draft fleener…..they need to replace Todd Heap……
I’d take Wright over Fleener but Fleener over Hill for the 49ers. Fleener was surely on Baalke’s list. He’s now moved up on everybody’s list including SF’s. If he’s there or close I’d pull the trigger, but its like buying a house or a car; if you fall too in love, you’ll over spend.
The professionals will have their value list and choose accordingly. If the value is weak at #30 they may trade back into the second round.
Grant:
I keep checking Mock Drafts from the “experts” looking for just that answer. And according to the “dire” needs of those selecting before us, Fleener should reasonably expect to be available until the 12 to 15 pick. If we don’t grab him before the 15th pick, Hey – fuggetabout it!
…oneniner…….Todd Heap??!?! ……..he plays for the Cards…….
El Guapo,
Oneniner knows about no other player except Smith. he ravens have 2 very good tight ends. Dennis Pita and Ed Dixon. Pita caught a YD against us. Edison caught a few against us as well.
HAHA!! Yeah, I remember Pita ’cause I distinctly remember yelling out, “Who the F#*! is te Pita guy?!?!” after catchin’ that TD pass. oneniner?!?!? Get it together, baby!!
…@elGuapo ….Todd Heap was drafted by the ravens released after 10yrs, the ravens are still looking for a probowl TE……its been the ravens (former browns) tradition to have a dominant probowl TE……….
Ozzie Newsome, Shannon Sharpe, Todd Heap
Ed dickson drafted in the 3rd round is a fine player but not a probowl TE…….
…@jordan……what’s so good about them?
Ed career stats….Receptions 64, Receiving Yards 660, Receiving TDs 6
Pita career stats…..Receptions 41, Receiving Yards, 406, Receiving TDs 3
….am close to Bmore….both the niners and ravens are in a similar situation……
…..both missed the SB by one win
……both need more weapons on offense
…..both use a run first offense and use the TE alot….
1 more similarity between the two oneniner
Both should have made the Super Bowl.
If you are close to Baltimore, how did the local fans/media feel about that last second TD that was not even reviewed?! That was a TD, game over, Baltimore to the Super Bowl play that the refs and upstairs screwed the team over BIG TIME. That was a lot worse than the tuck rule game. At least the tuck rule was an actual rule.
….Ravens and NE have crazy games like that……always one play that wins the game…..
….i recall when they almost snapped NE winning streak…….the game was pretty much won on a defense stop but the coach Brian Billick called a timeout, giving brady another shot.
…i think after the steelers, NE is most hated in bmore….
Then you tell your pals in Baltimore then that a Niner fan far from Baltimore as a neutral observer thought they got robbed big time in that title game.
Both have nothing at the QB position.
@Brotha Tuna
I think you’ll see Stephen Hill shoot way up. Should get drafted before Flenner. He fits my profile of a talented receiver in a run oriented system with a huge per catch average. Only problem is after the Combine everybody knows.
Umm – It’s not a wise idea to trade up for a Guard. You can find plenty of decent guards in the 3rd and 4th round even. If you’re going to give up draft picks to trade up, then it better be for an impact player at a skill position. Not a big-ugly. And say goodbye to the Wallace pipe dream – he’s looking for fitzgerald type money.
Yeah, most of the experts are saying this is a guard-rich draft with talent at all levels. should be too terribly hard to get one somewhere along the way.
*shouldn’t*
You can forget about Wallace, he told the niners that he wanted
120 mil like Larry from the Cards, he is not as good as Fitiz.
DeCastro will be gone by #15, in my opinion. We can’t jump that far unless we’re going to sell the farm. :P
I think you’re correct Adam. DeCastro would be too expensive. Heck, I’d hesitate to move up more than 4 or 5 spots in the 1st Rd due to cost. Fleener or Wright could help pretty soon; Hill’s measurables are special (like Fleener) but I think he’ll need time. Maybe Baalke’s ok with waiting though if he sees a 1st Rounder as an investment. I don’t worry about Fleener’s blocking skills, imo that’s not why we’d take him.
“White Lightning”
I could see this happening if he didn’t have the pro day he had. He has catapulted his value from being an end of first round to second round guy to being a mid first round pick
Remember, Kendall Wright also ran a 4.4 at his Pro Day. Stephen Hill ran a 4.3 at the Combine. The first round is overflowing with highly-rated prospects.
But for the same reasons you think we should draft him, the rest of the NFL sees that too. He’ll be picked up before we can get in range to pick him.
By this measure, Devon Wylie also ran a 4.3 at the combine, & Owusu, & others….
If he’s there when we pick than you try to trade the pick to a TE needy team.
The first team I would be calling is the Colts who might be in the market for a TE especially one with some familiarity with Luck and see if we can pry their next year’s first from them or take on their 2nd round pick along with some other picks.
He would be an upgrade over Walker but he’s still be the other TE and we’d get far more value leveraging the pick for more picks.
You don’t think the Niners need quality over quantity in this particular draft?
I wouldn’t give away the pick but I always believe good franchises always draft with one eye to the present and one eye to the future.
TE isn’t a major need for the team and while Davis and Walker duo wouldn’t be as potent as the Davis and Fleener duo it’s still a better duo than a lot of teams offer.
So if a team offers a pretty enticing package for the pick than I would say you should take it.
We could use a WR and RG immediately and use more depth at ILB (if grant doesnt resign) DL, and DB.
If he’s there at 30 fine. But trading up might come back to bite us if injuries hit us.
Grant, you said it. There will be sure quality at 30 rather than someone with the proverbial high ceiling.
Yes! We are set at every position except RG. Take the BPA.
I have to agree with the right guard sentiment. There aren’t a lot of salary cap dollars left and currently we have this:
http://www.petrasoap.com/MC6001.jpg
Off topic, but does anyone know what the financial details on Mario Manningham’s contract are? It’s been a mystery since he’s agreed to sign and nothing’s been confirmed even since the official announcement.
How about harbaugh calls Fleener directly and tell him to somehow screw up teams vision of them. That would scare away teams when the draft comes. that way niners can just pick him up since no1 would want him!
Grant, I take your point about this guy being SPECIAL. But given the receivers we’ve already got, and given the number of sacks Alex took last year, my sense is that having another great receiver running free while Alex is either running for his life (again!) or lying on his back trying desperately to get his breath back after being body slammed by a D lineman, I’d think the better move, at this point, would be to assure that he’s got the same quality of protection as Brees, Rodgers, and Brady have enjoyed. THEN I think we get to see what we’ve really got with Smith, AND can enjoy a better passing game.
Totally fair point. Allow me to retort. If pass protection from the right guard spot as vital to the Niners success as you say, sign a veteran – don’t gamble 2012 on a rookie.
Great point. DKilgore may be a year away.
Alex also takes a lot of sacks to avoid throwing picks. Its not always the O-lines fault. Please remember this will be the FIRST off-season, Mini-camps, and OTA’s for both Anthony Davis and Mike Iupait.
Can’t argue with that at all, Grant. Seems like our QBs have been running for their lives for a decade now. I’d love to see Alex have Brady-like time (“Dear Mom, sure is lonely here in the NFL when you’re looking for an open receiver…”) to check all the patterns, and if it means bringing in a vet, that sounds good to me. I bet Alex, Colin, and Scott would agree!
Most of the time Alex had plenty of time.
@TIM:
Define “plenty of time.” 3 seconds, 2.5 seconds, 2 seconds, 1.5 seconds, 1 second?
I said “most” of the time. Alex had a pretty darn good O line most of the year . Stop making excuses,Alex doesn’t make them so you shouldn’t either. Alex was hit very quickly on some plays,like all QB’s are at times. But overall he had enough time,if he would only read defenses quickly and unload the ball on time. He should get better at that in year 2 of the offense.
What..
TKH:
English a second language for you ? ;)
@TIM:
The issue isn’t me making excuses; it’s you making conclusory statements with zero support. You state with assurance that “Alex had a pretty darn good O line most of the year” and that “overall he had enough time, if he would only read defenses quickly and unload the ball on time.” Okay, now back it up. How long should it take a QB to make his reads and get rid of the ball? How much time did Smith have?
The truth is, you have absolutely no idea. None. And yet despite your ignorance, you confidently state that Smith had plenty of time.
The fact is, the SF offensive line was not pretty good last year. It was bottom third in both run blocking and pass protection. Unlike you, I actually have support for my statement:
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/protection.asp?type=overall
Since this site does not allow multiple links in a single comment, I will provide another link in the following comment.
@TIM:
Here’s another:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
Why don’t you educate yourself and then form an opinion?
To be fair, the Football Outsiders ranking has the team 21st in run-blocking. That’s not quite bottom third. 25th in pass protection, however, is bottom third. In fact, it’s bottom quartile.
Claude,
as you would usually say, this is your opinion. My opinion is that Smith’s inability to quickly read a defense and get the ball out quickly not only led to sacks, but also led to stacked boxes that had an overall affect on the run game.
I think the FO agrees with me too considering they didn’t attempt to make a big splash in the free agent market with O-linemen. They tried to do with with QB.
I think I’m safe to say I trust the FO. Do you? Or are you just a Smith fan? I’m a 49er fan….
Tim: Claude’s response to your assertion that Smith had plenty of time most of the time provides an excellent example as to why your position that stats are useless is invalid.
What is “most of the time”?
What is “plenty of time”?
You may be correct, but we won’t know without seeing the numbers and comparing them to those of other QB’s.
@bay:
Perhaps, but my opinion is based upon actual data and analysis, and yours isn’t. Where are the data and analysis to support your claims that Smith takes too long to read a defense and get the ball out? You don’t have any, do you? Did you even bother to see if there was any out there? Of course not.
You know why? Because you form your conclusion without regard to the facts. For you, it is opinion first, data second. Or data never.
But I guess all of that is cancelled out by the fact that you buy tickets and go to the games. That gives your opinions a validity that actual facts and reasoned analysis can never match.
Pass protection has been an issue since the end (literally) of Steve young’s career. Run blocking is only so-so but it’s better than pass protection for sure.
I’m pretty harsh on the O-line but… they did start to gel as the season went on. The experts were all talking about that coming together last due to the complexity of the blocking schemes, so it looks like they were right. I’d say after the thumping overloads on the right side in Baltimore it started to look a little cleaner. Not perfect but better. It’s getting there.
Claude,
not going to argue with you. The front office wanted to upgrade the QB position. It is a weakness on the team. So was WR and they addressed that.
You fall into a category of fan that protects the QB at all costs.
Based on games that I watched I shared this same opinion game after game. Some games were worse than others.
But if you want one example, both Smith and Harbaugh said after the Ravens game that Smith hung on to the ball too long.
Either way Claude, whatever your agenda is, have at it. Just don’t throw your ‘opinion” out at Tim as if it’s fact. It’s not.
The data that you get from websites like the one you posted share protection numbers. They don’t go into the reasons for lack of protection. They have no way of distinguishing the difference between a QB that doesn’t see the whole field and hangs on to the ball to long versus a QB that just has poor protection and gets sacked.
I don’t want to make you look worse than you already look Claude. I know you like to win debates so I’ll back off now. But imo you are wrong. And like I said, the FO is not trying to make a big splash with an Olineman even though the money is there. We tried to replace the QB instead…..
carl nicks the only real guard to be taken seriously in this FA……5yrs 47mill 31 guaranteed…..
that is why the niners didn’t make a splash…..
…damn dude….you nailed it…
Just had to re-post this…..
…”You know why? Because you form your conclusion without regard to the facts. For you, it is opinion first, data second. Or data never.
But I guess all of that is cancelled out by the fact that you buy tickets and go to the games. That gives your opinions a validity that actual facts and reasoned analysis can never match…”
……checkmate!!!!
Claude, only thing wrong with those protection stats is there is nothing to account for how long the QB is holding onto the ball. Other than that they are interesting.
What was his vertical jump? Is he a jump ball threat too? All I remember seeing him play is being wide open and running away from folks but he would be hard to overthrow!
37″ I believe. Pretty damn good.
Here are the details:
“That is flying at 247,” said Mayock. Mayock also reported that Fleener had a 37-inch vertical and broad jump north of 10-feet. “They’re extremely athletic numbers,” Mayock added. “Those are defensive back, wide receiver-type numbers.”
For comparison, Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski ran 4.65 with the wind and 4.73 against the wind at Arizona’s 2010 Pro Day. Gronkowski is the same height as Fleener, and 11 pounds heavier. But Fleener is much faster in a straight line.
“Hard to over throw” ! LOL ;)
49ers need to draft Coby Fleener even if they have to give up this year’s second round. Think of this line up Moss, Crabtree, Davis, Fleener, Manningham with no running back. How is defense going to cover this? Who is going to cover a 6′ 6″ TE with a high throw? Will get a first down most of the time.
Yep,if he can jump for those “high throws” then by all means sign him …LOL !
Oh you mean the 2009 version of Moss when he actually caught balls. Why do people think he will reverse his age?
I don’t think Zeitler will last until #60.
tuna – I agree, those Badger O-lineman are very reputable. That Bielema coach has these guys playing very physical with a mean streak. I watched one of their practices on Big 10 network and that coach doesn’t mess around.
I’m hoping we can find a hidden gem guard in the later rounds. Get BPA first 3 rounds.
And I think we are over reacting to the right guard, if they were that uncomfortable with the position they would have spent/offered more money for the position. I think they like the kid they drafted last year and will draft another beast to compete with him along with a vet past his prime at a discount and see if he has anything left in his tank.
Just read that Fleener limped off the field at his Pro Day to get his troublesome Ankle re-taped !!! Maybe this is what will make him fall to us ?
He is already back to catching passes from Luck
I know. That shows his toughness to the scouts,that he is willing to play on a bad ankle. But how bad is the ankle and will it be a problem for him for years to come (like the Warriors PGuard) or is it just a passing thing ?
If he wants to play for JH he could just limp off the field at the end of the workout and he might drop ? (just kidding).
Fleener at 6-6 instantly solves your red-zone woes. I love Vernon and Delanie but they are YAC tight ends, not jump ball tight ends like Jimmy and Gronk. Vernon and Delanie are at their best getting the tough yards after the catch with their size and speed. They box out defenders in the red zone (See their game winners against Detroit and Saints). Fleener is a natural receiver with very soft hands (Vernon is a great athlete playing TE) who can win jump balls in the redzone. Throw up the ball and he will get it. That’s indefensible. He would be an incredible addition to our team.
I’m with you Mike. I’d love to see Fleener on the 49ers. It’s a copycat league though and I’m worried Gronk’s success will push Fleener into the top 20.
Possible 3TE Sets could get awfully creative.
But Delanie is a stud, and a deep threat is a gaping whole on our roster for when Kap takes over. WR Free agents that are good are either expensive or not difference makers. And don’t give me Moss- he was garbage when he last played and I would be surprised if he is on the opening day roster.
Grant – Fleener should’ve sandbagged it so we could get him at 30. :-)
Maybe he is sandbagging it,since he just had his “troublesome ankle re-taped”. Rumors of a bad ankle could make him fall to us like the broken foot made Crabs fall ?
CF would lose a lot of dough dropping from 15 to 30th pick. I’d be happy if he was there at 30!
This is the stupidest analysis I have ever seen. The 49ers have 2 above average tight ends. They will not take a TE with their first pick.
Did you really need to use a word like that ? You could have said that in your opinion that Grant’s opinion leaves a lot to be desired,etc.
If its me give up 2nd pick, walker and crabtree to move up for Coby; however a 3rd pick in return would be important to add a saftey/DL. We can sign G(s) in free agency not to mention this Kilgore fella, i would like to test him.
It’s one of the most common predictions, in lots of mock drafts. If it’s the stupidest analysis you’ve ever seen, you’ve either seen a lot of it, or haven’t been paying attention.
I wouldn’t worry though, he’ll be gone when the 9ers pick, and I doubt they trade up for him.
Big, fast, redzone target, decent blocker, pro style offense, and should be familiar with our offense already. Hope he makes it to 30! That would be an awesome pick. Can’t wait for Draftmas!!!
/SIGNED.
I wanted Fleener before; he’s the RZ threat the niners need, and already knows the offense. Walker still factors into several offensive and ST roles. Delane offered some good looks from the backfield last season.
Manningham, Crabtree and Moss aren’t the best WR trio in the league, but paired with what would be the best TE trio and a pretty stacked backfield, the offense could be much improved next season.
If anyone thinks we might still use our first pick for Mike Wallace check this out.
Matt Barrows:
“A league source said that Wallace, 25, wants a contract that surpasses the eight-year, $120 million deal that Larry Fitzgerald signed last year with the Cardinals.”
http://www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/repost-781096.jpg
That was posted in the last blog htwaits
I think we go back to my blackmail idea of the AZ GM/owner if that is true. Set the guy up for some nasty pictures of him having an affair or drug deal, and tell them to trade LF to us or else.
But…I think the stats show Wallace had better years recently than Fitts (more TD’s more yards etc.). So he wants to be paid like he is Fitt’s equel . Can’t blame him for trying.
Not really Tim
LF stats – 8, 6, 13 TD’s last 3 years
Wallace stats – 8, 10, 6 TD’s last 3 years.
Keep in mind the team they are on and who is QB.
DS: I read that wallace had 8 TD’s just last year.That is certainly more than 6 TD’s i 3 years as you wrote???
I don’t know,just reading.
I don’t know about Wallace but I would take Fitz any day of the year. :)
No Tim.
I wrote the last 3 years of each guy.
The total TD of Wallace is 8+10+6 – 24 TD’s.
The Total TD of LF is 8+6+13 = 27TD’s.
Plus LF kicks our butt 2x a year. Wallace only 1 in 4-8? years.
I don’t think Wallace will get what he wants, but he will have to try next year when he will be a free agent.
Wallace is nowhere near the caliber of receiver as LF or CJ. He is good, but he simply isn’t on that level. It’s not really even close. Considering you have to depart with your 1st round pick in addition to handing out a monster contract, he just isn’t worth it.
DS: I don’t think Wallace is as good as Fitts either,I just said his stats are very close to Fitts and I don’t blame Wallace for trying.
…Besides,Wallace probably wouldn’t really mind staying with the Steelers for another year with the big $ he would get and then becoming an unrestricted FA and cashing in huge next year.
I agree with both posts Tim (1:46 and 1:48).
If we didn’t already have Vernon Davis I could understand the reasoning behind taking this guy but we DO have Davis, why would we use our first round pick on something that we already have. There isn’t enough benefit gained by simply having two fast TE’s on the field to use such a valuable pick on this player.
Davis and Walker are more then adequate given the inconsistent ability for the open receiver to be hit in the first place. We already have a speedy TE that is underutilized why do you want two of them?
We’re far better served drafting a WR or OL or trading down.
I tend to agree with that line of thinking.
Agreed. There are needs at other positions with higher priority than TE (WR, OL, RB, kick/punt returner, CB/Safety, etc.).
Being a quarterback Harbaugh may view Flenner as the security blanket receiver that we lack.
PS Ted Ginn signed 1 yr deal, great news.
VD is a speed TE. He isn’t a fight for the ball or throw it over the safety/LB type TE. CF is so their skill set is very different and would be utilized different by the coaching staff.
GC, based on the positions CF could play with his versatility, doesn’t that make DW a draft day trade possibility if they do indeed move up to draft CF?
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying for months now…Fleener then either Zeitler or Osemele in 2nd rd. Baalke may have to trade up to get a premium OG, but we all know he has no qualms about doing that.
I have been on the Fleener band wagon for months. His only drawback is his blocking and that can be taught. He will solve red zone and 3rd and long situtations. He is the man. I am also very high on WR Joe Adams with our second pick. He is Ginn all over again except with better hands. He was also the best return man in college football.
Under…..Blocking can be taught.
yes it can
when do we ever take the local guy? passed on Rogers 7 , Baldwin, D Jax.
Harbaugh used a lot of three tight end formations at Stanford. Hell, at times it looked like he was trying to use “twelve” tackles on some plays.
I think we should select BPA with our pick and i want everybody to remember that last year Coach said that he would only select players that could play numerous positions. Fleener (if available) can pose as a WR or TE. I like Hanna in about the 5th round at TE also so if we cant get Fleener he is another fast, tall option. G i would opt to draft in the 2nd or 3rd round unless their is an amazing unpredictable steal but thats unlike. P.S we dont need a WR or CB. We are already stacked at those for the year
We absolutely DO NOT draft Fleener. We have Davis,Walker, and Byham. We have 2 speedy TE’s. What the heck would we want to spend a 1st round pick on a TE for. We draft a RG and Frank gores replacement in the 2nd. THATS a no-brainer.
You’re knocking out today Grant. Then again I agree with a lot of what you say. Off topic. Any word on Ginn? I heard he walked away from Minn without a contract, could he be the next Humbled Hank and be back returning Kicks next year? Whats your gut or “sources” telling you?
Grant and many of you, totally with you on getting Fleener if he’s around when we have a shot – perhaps even at the expense of a 2nd rder. For all those reasons already enumerated – RZ, 3rd-down, Gronkowski, Harbaugh/Roman offense – all of it. Plus, with the 2- and 3-TE sets we could run, no opponent could ever be sure whether run or pass was coming. Think of the mismatches we’d get in the passing game. Linebackers would have to single up against some of these guys. Maybe we trade away our 2nd, then later trade away other picks to get back into the 2nd if someone they love is available. I agree again with Grant on quality, not quantity, in this draft.
But all this comes under the banner of, HarBaalke Uber Alles — they know what they’re doing, I’m totally on board; they’ll probably pick a bunch of guys I’d never thought of and most of them will turn out great. It’s just a great, great feeling to be able to believe in a Niners braintrust again. It has been a long time.
We have not gotten any monitary figures on Manningham. Did we overpay for this guy or what?
This is an unofficial time. I’ve also heard his times were 4.51 and 4.55. I think it’s very possible this kid can slip in the draft, there is no way he gets picked before 20. Even if the TE position is not deep in this years draft.
Fleener is a baller I would be fine with that pick, I love VD but Fleener is more fluid catching the ball. You can get a good guard in the later rounds.
Whats Fleener gonna do that Walker, and Davis can’t. And Fleener can’t block for crap. You guys are outts your dam minds. Last thing we need is another tight end. We need to start thinking about drafting Bowmans replacement because we aren’t gonna be able to re-sign him. we need to start thinking about drafting a strong safety to take over for whitner in 2 years and we need a corner to take over for terrrell brown after next year. you guys are nuts.
Also Gores replacement and we need young receiving playmakers. no tight ends for at least 5 years,
A replacement at running back is a must. I would say 4, but if there are concerns 3.
If the Niners think Fleener is the BPA available at 30 they’ll pick him. Or, if he’s so good that he’s the BPA at 20-25ish and worth an additional 2nd rounder, they’ll go for it. Picking him at #30 is a stretch enough in my mind; trading up for him and giving up additional picks sounds ludicrous. You don’t trade up in the first round and give up additional picks for a perceived need, whether you call that need an “offensive weapon” or whatever else. The comparisons to Gronk and Graham come unglued quickly, unless Fleener comes with Brady or Brees as a package deal.
The Niners do need quality (who doesn’t?), but they still need talented players at enough positions to justify even trading back in the first round. RB, interior line, WR, DL depth, ILB, safety depth, and OLB depth. All of the positions would get very thin very quickly with only one bad injury, and we all know injuries can happen at any time.
Grant,
Al Davis called (from beyond the grave) and he wants his mindset back. Dude, you’re hooked on 40 times…in shorts, no pads. It’s the dumbest reason to draft someone, go ask DHB.
If the Niners drafted him they would have a very unique offense that would cause endless match up possibilities. But then again getting a Michael Floyd would do the same, big, fast, sure handed, vertical (both speed and hops) receivers do that. Floyd is the better option since he would be groomed to replace Moss. Fleener would just be one of a 3 te’s rotation.
Couldn’t agree more on the Floyd part. If there was an offensive weapon I’d even consider trading up for, it would be him.
He would also be the worst blocker of the three. V.D. is so special because he is a great blocker and a great receiver.
Fleener would be the worst blocker? Or Floyd? Cause Floyds a great blocker for a wr…but thats not comparable to a te.
Out of Vernon, Delanie and Fleener, Fleener would be the worst blocker. Davis and Walker are very good blockers, Fleener is not known for being a good blocker.
Yeah but like MD said above, it’s not like he can’t learn. One thing we know about Stanford players is, they’re smart.
I’m not opposed to Fleener in any way but it could be that, knowing there’s a ton of depth in the draft at guard, we pick the best player on the board regardless of position. It’s been done before, it will happen again some time.
I agree with BPA. If that’s Fleener, all good. I just think his primary strength is receiving, and V.D. is a stud in that area. There are only so many balls to go around. You have Crabs, Manningham, Moss, Gore, Hunter, Davis, Walker and Miller already.
@Adam
Are you suggesting that the Niners would not take Fleener or a WR, but just anybody (Best player available) for your #1 draft pick?
I agree with your line of thinking. However, I’m not sold on Floyd based on his play on the field. He did help himself at the combine, but I’m still not sold. He doesn’t explode off the line of scrimmage and runs with long strides. His football speed or what Bill Walsh used call functional speed is not as good as his 4.42 time at the 40 in the combine.
A better WR is Muhammed Sanu of Rutgers. Sanu was knocked for being slow (ran a 4.65 at the combine), but said he wasn’t feeling well at the time. Yesterday – at the Rutgers Pro Day – he ran a 4.41 40 time. This is much more consistent with his football speed. Given his production, character, and work ethic, I’d take Sanu over Floyd any day.
He must be well rested,having a great day or..been hitting the “supplements” since his last game at Stanford. I never saw much speed..he actually was the typical plodder sure handed guy.
Ok-not plodder-that might be too strong..but not fast
You must not have seen the Orange Bowl game against VTech, Stan. Fleener can fly around the field.
Running in a straight line doesn’t necessarily translate to the football field just like football speed doesn’t necessarily translate into running the 40 yard dash. It still comes back to their production, but his average per catch was excellent at Stanford last season. To me, he seems best suited to the role that V.D. already has. V.D. should be a 1,000 yard tight end in this league.
I think he had the chance to reach 1000 yards.
If you remember correctly, he was used as a blocker the first 6+ games because the OL couldn’t gel. When he bitc*ed about it, they started making him more of the offense. Most of the reason was lack of an offseason and OTAs. This year they will focus on passing, RZ, etc. He’ll get his 1,000 – he almost reached that plateau in 2010.
I’d just like to point out to the fools claiming that Fleener won’t be on the board when the 9ers are on the clock….as much as we all like to think that we know what’s going on within the front offices of every NFL team, none of us can be sure of anything when draft day arrives. Let me ask you all: did you predict the 49ers to choose Aldon Smith? Did you envision Jake Locker being taken off the board inside the top 10? Did you “know for a fact” that the Falcons would trade up 20 spots to draft a receiver? Did you guarantee Bowers would fall out of the first round? The answer to all of those questions is likely NO. Stop pretending that you know what will happen.
If Fleener is there at 30, I think the 49ers would be wise to draft him, like Grant said he would make the 49ers so much better on 3rd down and in the red zone, if you include him with the other pieces they have added on offense it could be downright scary to an opposing defense
Hey Fleener. No we dont all make the right predictions. And in fact NOONE DOES. But what the hell are we here for other than voice our opinions. get real.
Some of us are predicting Fleener off the board at 30 and some are predicting after. But it doesnt make any of us fools. Not many of us had Aldon smith getting drafted by the niners. But that doesn’t make any of us fools. Look in the mirror tool.
Exactly. It doesn’t make us fools, it makes us fans because we have nothing better to do than guess what will happen with our team during the draft. Now if we were running the draft, and we chose a Raushan Woods, well, maybe the fool moniker would fit then…
fleener would be a great choice but better is lamichael james. he wont be there in 2nd round an RBs that good dont come around
Oh no never. Just Frank Gore, Arian Foster, Fred Jackson, Ray Rice, M, Jones Drew, Michael Turner, Lasean McCoy, Chris Johnson, or countless others of the top 30 rb’s in the league. RB’s you can get all over the board, or outside of the draft. It’s been proven time and again. No need to waste a high pick on a rb.
Grant: What’s your reasoning behind your assertion that the Niners can afford to wait another year before getting a running back? Gore could show up finished in July. I hope not, but even if he still has it, having him mentor a rookie would be a good situation.
You’re right – it would be an ideal situation. But I’d take Fleener over a RB like Doug Martin or Lamar Miller in the first. Fleener would probably contribute more to the team in 2012.
You can find very good RB’s throughout the draft. It’s almost hard to justify taking one so high anymore unless they are a flat-out stud.
Lamar Miller will be long gone by the time the Niners pick
Maybe, but he’s figured in around 38th overall. I haven’t noticed a mock with him in the first round – but I may have missed him.
I still say CPolk in the 3rd round would be a steal. He runs well betwee the tackles and has more speed than FG. Turbin could be a good choice as well.
Gores replacement will be drafted in this draft.
David Wilson maybe with our 3 rd pick or maybe LaMichael James maybe with our sixth.
Turbin in the third?
Now that’s a possibility. However, 3rd is too high for Turbin.
LaMichael James is almost a clone of Kendal Hunter. I doubt, they’ll take him
I finally agree with you, but sadly, he’ll probably be gone well before we get him, and it will set a new trend/standard for tight ends being drafted high.
If we really want this guy I say only trade our first round pick and delanie walker. That way we don’t have to many TEs and we still have our 2 passing TEs and a solid blocker in Byham. I really think Byham going down was one of our biggest injuries of the year. He is a solid worker and was going into his second year, which JH has even said is when you see the biggest improvement in a player.
No matter what happens thou I’m sure the coaches/gm will do a great job just like last year! Can’t wait to see what diamonds in the ruff they come up with this year!!
Couldn’t agree with you more, Grant. We get Fleener and our red zone offense’ll be damn near unstoppable – not to mention the implications his presence on the field will have for the “deep threat’ everyone’s been discussing for the last several weeks. But I, too, now have my doubts that he’ll make it to spot thirty. Will be fun finding out . . .
I hope Fleener doesn’t make it to 30.
He probably hopes that too. :P
Because ?
Because he will be making less money the lower he falls.
Because he reads this blog and dreams of being written about and discussed in it on a regular basis as a true-blue (true red-’n'-gold?) 49er. What other possible reason could he have?
Because he’s a huge patron of the coffeehouses in North Beach and so wants to be as close to The City as he can be conveniently to imbibe.
Because in the off-season he loves to surf the maverick waves at Half Moon Bay – and who wouldn’t want to live and work near a place called Half Moon Bay?
Because in his more contemplative moments he likes to put the leash on his cat (which he named “Harry’s Cat”) and go for moonlit midnight walks across the Golden Gate Bridge and back. N.B.: When he was still in high school, it was on one of these walks that he decided to devote himself to the game of football, thus depriving the world of another great pharmacist.
These are just a few of the reasons that he DOES hope he makes it to number thirty and gets drafted by our Niners.
Draft Lamar Miller in the 1st the spell Gore and eventually take over, a guard in the 2nd, receiver in the 3rd, corner 4th, and TE Michael Egnew out of Missouri in the 5th. I love Fleener and the idea of bringing in JH’s college toys, but I don’t think TE in the 1st is a luxury we have. Egnew however is big, fast, has great hands, and was great at the combine. He also put up monster numbers two years ago with 90 receptions when Blaine Gabbert was qb. The only reason Egnew will be available late is because of the drop off in quarterback play at Mizzou last year. And Lamar Miller would be nice because we all saw how well we ran the ball when Frank Gore missed time. And who here will argue that Frank Gore is likely to play 16 games next season? Besides, I want us to play 19 games.
Lamar Miller is a stud – fast and strong. He may turn out to be a better pro back than Gore. It will interesting if we replace a Cane with another Cane.
Nick, Lamar will be there at 30, but doubt the 49ers go there.
BPA!!
Here’s a thought experiment:
Let’s say Fleener and Konz are both still on the board when we pick.
1) Fleener, we know all about.
2) Konz, Center at Wisconsin – HUGE. Only real knock on the guy is that he’s perceived not to have faced any true speedy rushers.
Who do you take and why?
Goodwin is a pretty good center. You could get a guy in a later round and develop him. I think Fleener would present more value at that point. Chances are it will be neither. Most likely a very good player is at that spot who is not anticipated to be there or who we don’t know about. I’m fine with that, Aldon Smith was a stud.
“I’m fine with that, Aldon Smith was a stud.”
Same here.
Adam that’s not Konz’s only knock-only 18 reps at the bar has some questioning his strength(maybe to our benefit-Zeitler(G) in comparison had 32 reps!).
Adam. BPA with Aldon Smith type value is what the 49er brass are looking for. I hope the plan for replacing our starting guard isn’t a reach in round one. Did we low ball the original plan for guard and lost it? I don’t know the plan is but we don’t have a guard.
OK, let’s say because Smith is back we’re still going to lean ground and pound vs. aerial assault. (Although Moss and Manningham may make this tilt slightly the other way.)
How about a RB vs. Fleener (or a guard but we can’t go Cordy Glenn unless he really falls for some reason but anyone else?)
Value-wise, let’s go David Wilson or Lamar Miller for RBs vs. Fleener?
You guys still go BPA or you think maybe we need some competition for Booby Dixon to spot Gore?
I like booby who doesn’t but he just doesn’t get many yards. PTF says RB round one idk.
Doug Martin is better than both those guys. If we get him Boobie’s cut.
Martin is actually ranked below those other two. Wilson and Miller are projected to go in the 30s (overall). Doug Martin is mid-50s.
Here’s your #2 (according to some analysts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UhO295rcu0
And Miller, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5tRXa34CGk
Got some moves.
It just seems like teams find RB’s in the later rounds every year. Unless a guy is ridiculously talented, it’s hard to justify a high pick on a RB. They do need to find the replacement for Gore sooner then later though, he always seems to be dinged up and that doesn’t improve with age.
Watched 1:35 of David Wilson and he fumbled twice.
How is that a knock on a center? Centers live for speedy rushers. It’s not like they have an edge to protect
@Adam
If he plays Center, then how likely is that he will face speed rushers?
On a stunt perhaps? The speed guys are usually outside. Unless we are playing teams that like to stunt a lot, it does not seem that big a problem.
sounds like a great plan in theory lets hope it all works out!!
Even before he ran like the wind — I would have been stoked for them to draft him. But unless they move up, he will not be there.
Knowing the way Trent and Jim think I’m sure they are real Happy about this being put out there for everybody to read : ))))))
Pro Football Talk’s latest mock draft: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/2012-mock-draft-take-one/
I’m not convinced this guy is a great predictor of drafts but, loved his pick for the niners though, I’ve been on the Martin bandwagon for a while. Didn’t think he was a first rounder but with our position we have to think like we’re drafting in the second.
Browns are drafting for offense clearly that means Blackmon or Richardson.
I don’t feel the Ravens need a tight end as much as others seem to. Pitta and Dixon are quality and have been drafted recently.
Oops it’s actually Dickson
Also I love RG3 but REALLY!?
Grant,
I don’t agree with this Mock Draft. They have Doug Martin rated as the 2nd best RB in the draft and going to the Niners ahead of Lamar Miller. Why would the Niners pick a RB in the 1st round anyway (unless either Richardson or Miller dropped to them).
A better choice for the Niners would be to pick a WR. If Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, and Randel are all gone, a solid pick would be Muhamed Sanu. He ran a blistering 4.41 at his pro day, was very productive in college, has been compared to Ray Rice for character and work ethic.
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2012/03/rutgers_mohamed_sanu_boosts_nf.html
Mayock has Martin #2 as well.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d827a70e8/article/midmarch-position-rankings-for-2012-nfl-draft
hmmm, somebody had the same though i suggested here yesterday about RG3 going first overall…..but i don’t really believe it
if only true…..then could get fleener by dealing with GB…..
a brother slap fight in the making
As far as running back goes, Baalke could afford to wait one more year to address that position in the draft.
Disagree. But I also think they can find a decent RB in the mid rounds. RB in the 1st two rounds is not necessary — there are gems to be found later if you’ve done your homework.
PFT has us drafting a RB round 1. Funny. He better be AP.
Doug Martin’s a stud! Watch some Boise state games.
Delanie Walker is a free agent next year. Just saying …
My God, you’re right. Great forward thinking and planning for the future.
OOoooooo, Cape Jose!! You just dropped the bomb on me, bruh!! I didn’t realize that!! This Fleener hunt just got interesting. At first, I was oppossed to drafting Fleener ’cause we need to beef up the oline, but now …. Hmmmmm?! We probably should. (if we have a chance).
i’ve been sayin this all along….for days and weeks……guess i am on the ignore button by some…
JG did say it and that’s why I was thinking trade him even for a 5th round (give or take) and draft CF.
If you’re going to give up draft picks to trade up, then it better be for an impact player at a skill position.
Agree. When we have too many impact players at skill positions for our offense then we can talk about what to do next…
Grant! Finally we agree on something! You are 100% correct, DRAFT FLEENER (if he’s available)! Could you imagine us lining up Davis & Fleener at TE, Moss/Manningham & Crabtree/Manningham at WR, Gore at RB!?!? Nobody will know what’s coming! Book it! Someone needs to tell Baalke that Fleener just made his job 4.45% easier!
Grant, you were one of the first to get on this Fleener bandwagon, so I commend you for being early to the party. His pro-day has finally given me reason to believe all this hype.
And you were one of the first to hype him. I salute you today sir.
(See I give Grant props when he does something well!)
Haha. Here’s a good one: http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/colorado-mans-obituary-says-he-wanted-out-before-broncos-acquired-manning/related/
Too bad Msclemons, 23Jordan and Bayareafanatic don’t have that reaction of the return of Alex Smith. We’d all be able to blog in peace!!!
Nah. It takes all kinds to make the world go ’round, Doc.
This place would be dull if we all thought the same way, right?
And I feel like the disagreements are becoming more civil.
I think it’s just the Alex Smith subject. Seems to really rankle. Sets people off, one way or another.
Irritates me in some ways too. Have to admit.
@dr
msc doesn’t say the same types of things the other two you mention have. Not even remotely close.
GC and Adam, did you notice? There are 258 comments and not an article about AS. It just proves if there is something of interest (drafted, stanford pro day, CF, etc) the comments will come. Great job!
TE’s usually never go off the board quickly. Last year Kyle Rudolph wasn’t drafted till the 11th pick in the 2nd round and he was the 1st TE drafted last year. So its more improbable than impossible.
Rudolph didn’t run 4.45
The 49ers are already heavy at tight end, but extremely in need of depth on the offensive line. The more qualtity bulk up front the better.
TE’s are bulk that can catch. More TE’s=more versatility and Harbaugh’s offense needs more to be successful. Just for perspective the Packers have 5 TE’s on their roster.
I like zeitler ! fleener would be a great addition to davis and walker…9ers offense lookin better ! ALEX shud b playin wth a chip on his shoulder cuz the hole manning deal. i think he gonna have a breakout season
9er faithfull
We already have a Super TE and a damn good second one. idon’t understand the reasoning here… best player available could be the only reason…and I don’t believe in that philosophy.
Huh,I wonder why the 49ers had no interest in the Raiders Bush?..a in the Gore mold, sort of, runner.
?? Gore is 5′ 9″ 215. Bush is 6′ 2″ 243. How are they in the same mold?
Perhaps the answer to your question is Bush’s yards per carry for the last 3 seasons, in order, 4.8, 4.1, 3.8.
Team like the niners should draft the best player on the board not just draft a position they need.
Placing way too much value on 40 times. Not just for Fleener but other positions. As soon as somebody runs a fast 40, they’re in the first round, forgetting how they play football.
But we’ve all watched Fleener play football. This just confirms what we suspected.
I keep thinking of the 2011 Orange Bowl. 173 yds 3 TD
Update: The Niners just re-signed Ted Ginn Jr. to a one-year deal.
Nice. One of the best return men in the league.
YESSIR!!! Is he happy with mainly handling return duties?! I sure hope so!!
Probably, but Harbaugh probably told him he could compete for WR playing time even if he didn’t really mean it.
haha!! Keepin’em satisfiiiiiied!!! In Harbs we trust!!!
@Grant
If it is a 1 year deal, then I wouldn’t be so hasty in dropping KW. Maybe they have Ginn as they train KW up to be a better returner. He is already a better WR than Ginn.
True. That could be. Or, they could draft a WR who beats out Williams in training camp.
They better draft somebody Grant.
After last postseason, I don’t want any of our guys to think they are secure in their job. That includes RM and Manningham as well.
Our whole WR core is on thin ice. They need to skate themselves to thicker ice all by themselves. No assistance or breaks for any of them (drafted WR’s as well).
Is there a specific round you’d like Baalke to draft a WR? Remember, he drafted Williams in the sixth.
If they don’t go with an RB (Polk or Turbin) in the third, it could be a good round for guys like Quick and Fuller.
Considering how weak our WR was last year, it would be hard not to say 1st round.
But, our 1st round WR’s since JR have been less than stellar. JJ Stokes, Woods, MC. And JJ may be the best among them and he got blasted by the fans/media here for not being JR.
Niner needs from my view are:
WR, Guard, DL. I think you can easily find Guards who are dropped on the final day of roster cuts, so I am not worried about having to draft more than 1 guard,and it would not have to be a high pick either.
So, that really leaves WR and DL for me. If Fleener is not there, I look to trade down if possible (I am against trading up in the 1st round, although with so few dire needs this year, it might be worth it) to get more picks.
I spend the rest of the draft going for DL and WR. Maybe Guard and a backup LB (good special teams guy as well) late. But, I’d just pick the best WR and DL guys available (among the two positions) with each pick from round 2-7.
We’d hope at least 1 WR (and all we need is just 1) to make something good of themselves, and this whole offense can take to the sky. Just need 1.
If Wallace is demanding LF money, go after LF. If LF is not obtainable, then just draft a bunch of WR’s and have them battle it out. Keep the best. How many do most teams keep of WR’s? 6? Contracts, money owed if dropped, all meaningless. We have better WR’s in the playoffs last year, and we win. Every game. Can’t cover our WR’s and VD the way he was playing if our WR’s are any good at all.
could have a pick of a couple of WR in the 5th round….ryan broyles or hilller …..if don’t end up getting hill n the 1st round or streeter in the 2nd
To me jg, it is about numbers when it comes to draft picks.
If you can’t get a known great NFL player, and you do the direction of the draft, then you don’t know who is going to be good. If you did, well, you wouldn’t be on a blog. I can tell you that. : – )
Just playing the odds jg. The higher n value you have, the better chances at least one will turn out good. Of course the downside is that you neglect other areas of your team. But for the most part, our team is good everywhere.
“and you do the ”
Should read as
“and you go in the”
DS – You just told me that you don’t correct your grammar??? :-)
That is good news.
If RM doesn’t make it through the year (which I give him a 25% chance) TG may get more playing time.
I agree with the first part. The Niners should draft another WR to hedge the Moss signing and to prevent the second part of your sentence from happening.
RM will be the surprise of the offseason acquisitions. He will have a huge impact this year, even if it doesn’t show up in his stats.
Bold prediction. My Raider-fan friends feel the same way, which surprises me.
Grant,
If Moss does not make it through the season, Alex won’t either. Not in the starting lineup anyway.guys get open deep and Smith often does not even see them. Often times he over or under throws them when he does try to connect with them. Moss might have to biotch slap Alex at some point. Time will tell.
What postion do you think they will draft in the first round?
Sorry I have not had time to scan all posts (just got in from work). But it sounds like C.Fleener just made himself a ‘ton’ of money.
I agree that his speed gives him many options and versatility on any offense, but it also likely put’s him out of our reach as well.
Fleener may now go higher than Kendall Wright which may work in our favor. Wright (who now is at a 4.4 40), as i’ve said reminds me of V(salsa)Cruz. Wright has the ability to make people miss and then take it to the house. S.Hill has size and speed but his college numbers were just a little above pedestrian. At this point, I no longer believe that WR/TE is a must pick with our 1st pick.
There will still be very good Receiver’s between 2-4 rds available if we decide to go a different route with our 1st. M.Sanu, T.Streeter, J.Adams. D.Jones will be there in the 2nd tier group.
Ginn is back
So it’s just a matter of time before Kyle Williams is gone, most likely.
Yep
GOOO RIDDANCE!!!! Kyle, you owe me a 9ers mug that I chucked across the room and broke after that last fumble!
Not if the Niners sign Ginn to just be a returner. Which is what many fans wanted anyway.
I can’t figure Ginn out, he’s sure handed on punts and kickoffs but drops easy passes as a wide out. I’ve said before he’s the best return man the 49ers had in recent and past memory, IMO.
@Andrew
Ever try catching a punt or a kick? It is WAAAYYYY
harder than it looks on TV.
Catching a pass, is easy. I don’t get it either. He drops passes, but catches kicks. And kicks are all moving kind of screwy in different directions.
Draft Joe Adams with our number two pick much better receiver then Ginn and was the best return man in college ball last year.
That would be one of my several WR picks then.
Compete he may, and great if he surprises us,
Its 1 year, probably not alot of Gm
Hofer, Regarding trading Walker, I doubt he has much value, especially since he will be in the final year of his contract. Keep him, and drop Byham. Davis, Walker, Fleener would be the best TE group in the NFL.
@jack
Again, assuming that Fleener will be there (I know you are not the only one).
Guys, we are picking 30th. That means we don’t get to dictated the draft anymore. It has been a long time sine we could say that, but it is true. And, I for one am fine if it is a long, long, long time until we can dictate the draft again.
An eye for talent is more important then a high draft slot, otherwise you would never have dynasties.
BigP, so true. BW was the master at evaluating talent and drafting some great finds in rounds 4-7.
+1
Ginn is Back Baby!!!
Im apologizing on advance i couldnt help it lol…Ginn-sanity is back!!!
Thank the football gods Mr. Ginn is back. Now we have the girl with the great personality back in the lockeroom. Goodbye Mr. Williams, don’t let the shiney lombardi trophies blind you on the way out.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, TED GINN returns as a 49er! I know it sounds funny but i am very happy to have Ted back in our team. GO NINERS
Glad Ginn is back. Thx for answering my question earlier Grant. ;-)…….. But I hope they dont get rid of KW. Remember he never returned punts before in a huge game. For a rookie thats a tough job. I think they should keep him on the recieving team. Lie to Ginn and make him strictly a Returner. KW does get open and can be a nice knock off of Welker for us.
I’m with you here md.
I never hated KW like many here have, and sadly still do. The guy was put in a tough spot no doubt. And, he has only played 13 games.
I still say draft a lot of WR’s and have them all compete and take the best. Current contract be damned.
KW is a guy who can improve I feel over time. And he stood up to the scrutiny of the title loss, so he passes the good guy/teammate test for me.
He would be a very good slot receiver but the concussion thing is a little scary this early in his career.
Ds…. On the same page…..BigP The concussions never crossed my mind. That is something to think about
It’s a little scary, the Giants were head hunting the guy in the NFC Championship game.
It was a big stage and KW was trying to do to much. If he makes the team great. I agree with GC that it will be difficult for him to stay on the team. But hey, one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure.
@DS
No one wanted KW dropped more than me after…..you know what. My stance has softened, he can make plays and is the closest thing we have to WW of the Pats if groomed properly. However, there may be someone sitting behind a desk that has already determined his fate.
I agree with you MD, KW can play.
If Kyle Williams is still on the roster opening day I’ll be disappointed in Baalke. Just remembering that idiotic muff makes my blood pressure go up.
Md,
In my opinion, Williams is a liability. In actuality, he has muffed punts in big games before. Look him up on utube in college. He has that concussion problem as well. He’s just not tall enough to be effective in this offense. Alex’s touch won’t allow him to effectively get williams involved with any consistency. Smiths throws are often high.
More importantly, the punt that hit his knee, he knew it hit his knee. He has to go try and recover that ball. He has to be smart enough
To know that the play is going to get reviewed. This isn’t pop Warner. It’s the NFC championship. There are 50 cameras on the field. Even after we lost the review, he was still acting. That’s what pissed me off. He gave the ball up without fighting for it.
Well, KW went from one long overthrown pass that should have been a TD and made him a hero, to a horrid fumble that made him the goat… go figure?
Football has many layers.
KW’ will need to have a monster TC to survive the chopping block. He could easily fall victim to the numbers game, and the same holds true for TGjr.
@23jordon
It was complete lack of discipline and not being in the moment. I wanted him cut after the muff in OT. But, he has a skill set where he could be the next Victor Cruz, he has the quickness. It’s beyond me but somehow I forgave the guy and that has brought me peace with the situation. Just don’t let him near a kick-off or punt.
WR – Round 4 – Chris Owussu, Stanford
Like Grant mentioned earlier, the guy has quite a few concussions.
JH,
But I completely agree with you from a talent standpoint.
The guy can fly but the concussions are such a risk and organizations would tend to avoid any unnecessary problems.
Many draft people are still projecting him in round 3 or 4.
Hammer love this guy,yes he has had concussion problems…but as late rounder (I think he falls lower than the fourth)… gold!
Glad Ginn is back. he’s an impact player on return teams, and i think he plays tougher than some fans appreciate. we’re really loading up with good players at all the positions. Keep it going Niners, cant wait for the season to start.
Williams is a solid player who was asked to do something he could not. But what he does, he does very well. You don’t want to throw him away.
.
We need a guard and a center. Period. Our O-Line last year was spotty at best. We will not get to a necessary comfort level unless the O-Line is improved.
.
There is zero chance Harbaugh will draft that tight end.
Streetglide,
My apologies to you. I directed a post to you a few weeks ago, that should have been directed at someone else. I got your post mixed up. Be well.
There is Zero chance!!! with all due respect how do you know the 49er players board ranking and value to state that there is NO chance for us to pick up a top TE that played in JH system!
You are correct we need a guard but our center is a probowl center! and we have two OL players on the roster that maybe able to step up. So we can easily draft CF if he falls to us and then draft a guard!!
With SG on KW
Full Details of Smith’s contract.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/full-details-of-alex-smiths-contract?blockID=675216&feedID=5936
Only $9m guaranteed. Sure looks like they caved Grant.
Hammer thats what i tried to communicate yesterday! Alex has been fair and hope he plays to max his salary.
Yeesh – Baalke and Marathe are cold blooded.
No kidding! as a business man i respect TB negotiation skills. GO NINERS
Plus he pulled the Goldsen move on Ginn again, and guess what…..He’ll be returning kicks for us again.
MD, the only thing about TG is it takes him a while to get to 6th gear. He is fast but not quick. Anyway, he is the best option at PR/KR that they have to date unless they get a multi-talented guy (CB or WR) in the draft.
6th gear issue not really and issue….typically gets a rolling start and has to make a cut but from that point he hits that 6th gear rather quickly….that is the way of a moving start and reaching top gear
Wow, Mark Sanchez is overpaid! Kolb too.
actually, that is a nice breakpoint contract……
if AS contributes appropriately he guarantees himself a second year, therefore, guaranteed 16.5mill
i don’t have a problem with it and apparently AS doesn’t either and didn’t a week and a half ago…..so i am moving on….
BigP, Big difference between college and pros when it comes to protecting blows to the head.
4.35 speed, good hands, abilty to make all the catches. Could be middle round gem.
JH,
There is a huge difference between college and the pros when it comes to the size and speed of the players as well. I agree with you about his talent, but the guy has missed almost half of their games over the last two seasons because of injuries and concussions. That would make me very apprehensive.
DS, Teams generally will carry 5 WR.
@Jack
Are you sure we carried any last year?
:- )
Heres a good look at what the rest of the NFL knows and clearly what the Niners think about Alex Smith. Now I see why he got on the plane to Miami, florida. For more money, I would have stayed there.
http://t.co/FCvyBWbb
What do you think the odds are the 9ers draft CF?
lol Hof thats funny.
Good post J23 I was wondering what it would look like after the dust settled and the truth came out. Lets hope Smith hits those incentives.
MD, as you’ve (and I) stated many times…time to move on!
BTW, MD this Grant article is about *MF*. Count the number of comments from those that are trying to change the subject back to JH’s QB of choice. Who has the problem??? Just sayin!
*CF* damn fat fingering the keyboard. lol
Md,
If he’s not hitting those horrible receivers he has, he won’t have a job for very long. Therefor, we won’t be arguing very much about Elite Alex. Sorry alexfan11, I know that hurt. That one even hurt me.
Hofer, My bad. I was afraid it would wake 23j/LowHangingFruit up from under his rock and unfortunately it did. Just thought the actual details of the contract would be of interest.
Guess that’s what I get for scooping the host.
Jack, this great group use to create comments next to none in 9er blog land. Provocative, entertaining and educational comments. Lately, the new guys such as Raiq has outclassed us with his comments because of the focus on one player of a team of 53. Thank god GC changed it up today with this article and yes there were a few trying to change the topic back to one player, but there are 350+ comments about CF, the draft, etc.
Looking forward to the draft and many more insightful comments by new and older contributors!
Hofer, Got ya. Regarding your comment about using Walker to trade up for Fleener, I don’t think there is enough value for Walker since he will be a free agent after this year.
yep i appreciated raiq inputs
But the thing is, he isn’t you ! His more smarter than you are and richer…Alex don’t give a Shhht what you think or the other fools…lol
Don’t fee the piranha…they just can’t get enough!!
مبارک سال نو ایرانی را به همه دوستان من!
A message from my wife: Happy Persian New Year to all of my friends! She told me to wish everybody the best for their family and loved ones.
BigP, happy norooz to you and your family
Chicago49er,
Thank you. Happy norooz to you and your family as well.
DS, we only had 1 by the time the Championship game rolled around. Add 1 more through the draft and we are improved there.
Now that Wallace has pretty much over priced himself, do you still want to trade Crabtree?
Mr. Williams can play somewhere else. NFC CHampionSHip game and you mentaly take a sh!t not once but twice? Highschool football 101 broke it in college and yea I do not want any repeat performances for my 49ers.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Andrew:
I think we need to upgrade Dixon’s spot. And long term replacement for Gore , to team with Hunter. Maybe we draft one rb that can be both replacement for Gore and Dixon…a bigger Gore who can pound it and has some moves and speed ? Any ideas on who is available that might fit that description ? Come on you draft experts !
It’s going to be an interesting year with this receiving corp. VD will get his typical production and I see MM coming in second. He runs better underneath routes and he gets separation in small areas. Add the vertical passing game, if RM gets the separation VD gets, lights out. Add CF for RZ and this can be a very potent offense. Yes, I’m looking forward to the 2012 like right now. lol
Add OUR #1 WR, M.Crabtree and you could really up the ante (lol).
Couldn’t resist…
I’m hoping MC has a breakout year!! Go 9ers!
He should, given the talent around him now.
The Niners signed Josh Johnson, per Eric Branch
Thats great ! So JJ can warm up the bench for A. Smith and CK…lol
this will be interesting…..just to be obnoxious….
trading CK for miami’s #8
or is that just being an azz
@jg
If there was any truth to that story and Miami is stupid enough to do that, then the Niners should not hesitate.
The Niners could then trade down from that pick to another desperate team willing to pay too much to get in the top 10 and have a slew of non 1st round cheap on the cap guys who can be just as good.
The Niners brought in 2 or 3 long snappers so there would be competition with BJ. Makes sense that they would turn up the heat wherever they can. This is a team on the edge.
point taken
I liked the way K. Williams played so very well in 2011, when he got the chance. I hope he stays ! He is not a punt returner and he should have been removed from that spot after he dove to catch that one early punt. I blame the coaching staff for not recognizing the situation . Besides there was another player( you know who ! ), who could have played a lot better and we would not even care about those muffs today.I hope they keep Williams.
Nothing more than a camp body. Or at the most,3rd string qb and cut tolzien. They didn’t pay Alex starters money to let VY2.0 take his place. And I doubt he’d jumP last years early second rd pick
JOSH JOHNSON SIGNS 2 YEAR DEAL WITH SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS. ALEX IS HAVING A MISERABLE MONTH!!!!!!!
I hate to see Tolzien go. I thought he might be a perfect fit at long term backup to Kaep,at a reasonable price.Who knows,I know Jj is JH’s guy but there are no guarantees he even sticks. He has not taken advantage of his opportunities in the NFL so far and for all I know may not have what it takes in the NFL. Interesting competition in camp now for sure.Anything can happen I guess ?
@Tim
Just because the Niners sign JJ, does not mean he will be on the final starting day roster.
Tolzein and CK still can battle it out. Nobody has lost a job yet.
Tim,
It’s all about who can run this offense successfully. Josh Johnson was behind the # 5 overall pick in the draft. He could’ve outplayed Freeman and still not got that job. 1st round pick vs a 5th round pick. You know the deal with that. Freeman had been there 3 years. He played like crap last year(Freeman) but they are not going to give up on him. Iron sharpens Iron!!
Josh Johnson has a 2 year deal with 49ers.
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2012/03/49ers-sign-qb-josh-johnson-to-a-two-year-deal.html
Welcome aboard J. J. This might suggest CK is not developing as planned. May the best QB win.
DS:
I already said what you just said ??? We agree and yet you make it sound like you disagree with me , lol.
@Tim
You wrote:
“I hate to see Tolzien go.”
I replied:
“Tolzein and CK still can battle it out. Nobody has lost a job yet.”
That is all I was pointing out.
Claude:
Could you maybe be a little more obnoxious ? Grow up child !
I couldn’t disagree more with drafting fleener. We already have 2 very capable tight ends adding another will do what exactly? The running game already faces stacked boxes but this would be amplified even more with our 3 TE set and since defenders can chuck TE’s at the Line of scrimmage don’t expect them to be running free down the field. Further more this allows defenses to hide blitzes even more. If our O line was capable of getting a solid push consistently
I might think differently but as it is your drafting a situational player who would be lucky to 3 to 4 touches and maybe 15 – 20 snaps a game. In my way of thinking that isnt worth a first.
Walker is a free agent after next year. Fleener could grow into his role in 2012 and then take over in 2013.
If any of you think Fleener will still available when the 49ers pick, then you need to lay off the crack pipe..
HELLO!!! He will NOT be available to us! Cmon brotha
I think the Niners really should consider Fleener and he should still be on the board. TE is going to be considered a luxury with many teams looking to fill holes on the offensive line or at wide receiver. If you’re looking at the teams in the 20′s TEN, DET, CIN, PIT, BAL, NE, HOU, GB…they’re all set at the TE spot with either established guys or young guys who they’re developing. The Browns at 22 are about the only ones who might want Fleener as a check down for McCoy, but they’ve already got a 6’6 young TE in Evan Moore who McCoy already seems to trust. Not to mention the whole luxury factor with Cleveland having much bigger concerns than TE
This is our first pick fa sho G 2nd CB or WR 3rd WR or DT 4th DT/DE 5th S 6th C 7th