Chris Culliver made homophobic comments on the Artie Lange show Tuesday. This is what Culliver said.
Q: Have any gay guys approached you?
CULLIVER: I don’t do the gay guys. I don’t do that.
Q: Are there any gay guys on the 49ers?
CULLIVER: We don’t got no gay people on the team. They’ve got to get up out of here if they do. Can’t be with that sweet stuff.
Q: Is that true?
CULLIVER: Yeah.
Q: But they might be able to play well.
CULLIVER: Nah. Can’t be in the locker room…nah. You’ve got to come out ten years later after that.
Here is the 49ers’ response to Culliver’s comments: “The San Francisco 49ers reject the comments that were made yesterday, and have addressed the matter with Chris. There is no place for discrimination within our organization at any level. We have and always will proudly support the LGBT community.”
Update: The 49ers just released this statement from Culliver: ”The derogatory comments I made yesterday were a reflection of thoughts in my head, but they are not how I feel. It has taken me seeing them in print to realize that they are hurtful and ugly. Those discriminating feelings are truly not in my heart. Further, I apologize to those who I have hurt and offended, and I pledge to learn and grow from this experience.”
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Young mistake…..
More ignorance than youth. Although I guess the young mistake was putting that ignorance out there for everybody to see.
when you listen it’s not that bad…. He made a mistake at the largest level… I was really upset at first but I have to remember we are all not fro the same place
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I don’t give a Dam about what’s wrong or right to say , get your feelings hurt so what!! This is the HOME OF THE FREE
First off, a dam holds water. Second, maybe you should give a damn. If you’re running around purposely trying to offend people, you’re a nutball and deserve what you get.
Do you tell your girlfriend or wife that she’s fat? Ugly? You know full-well (or at least you should if you had any kind of decent upbringing) that it will hurt her feelings, correct? Maybe we’d have a nicer world if people were a little less free with their thoughts.
Lao Tse said something once (and Gandhi paraphrased hundreds of years later) that is smarter than any jingo-spouting nationalist could ever dream up:
“Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habit. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.”
I always hate when people quote the 1st Amendment in a case like this. It demonstrates such a poor level of education and makes me fear for how ignorant our citizenry is of the laws that govern them.
The 1st amendment protects you from the government abridging free speech. It has nothing to do with shielding you from the consequences of your speech by others. If you say something idiotic, the 1st Amendment in no way protects you from being fired, disciplined, boycotted, kicked out, ostracized, vilified, condemned or whatever else by the people who dislike your speech. Therefore the 1st amendment has ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVANCE TO THIS CONVERSATION. Seriously, they really should try to teach kids this in high school, and save internet forums from the idiocy.
“Saving the Internet forums from idiocy”. Now that would be Utopia! That idyllic dream aside, I couldn’t agree with you more Dystope_.
Refreshing to read Lao Tse and Gandhi and the true interpretation of the First Amendment in a football blog littered with Niners fan hate rebuttal to Niners fan hate, sprinkled with true Niners fan opinion thrashed by more Niners fan hate.
Immature idiot, remember Garrison Hearst said the same thing
Immature idiot, remember Garrison Hearst said the same thing.
“I don’t know what it was but it was comin out of my booty”- Garrison Hearst
Before his latest public remark my #1 Cully concern is his habit of slowing way down when he turns to locate the ball on fly patterns.
A recent tweet from Cullyinthehouse” “I pray to God I’m never dieing broke”
Does this mean if Cully gets hit by a Buick tomorrow his wish will be fulfilled? Clearly not the sharpest took in the shed.
and a tweet before that was about women being on their periods… and his mom for some reason…
yeah, cullyman apparently needs some sensitivity training. Also seems like the excitement might be getting to him a lil bit
obviously i dont have the entire context – and i imagine, most of us don’t – but it sounds like this Lange person was baiting him on the topic of homosexuality. I have no idea who Artie Lange is – and care even less about him if this is a sample of his work – but i wonder why he would engage in such a topic with a talented cornerback on the eve of the biggest game of his life. ah, maybe its ratings, aka the Almighty Dollar that moved him. shame on him.
If its the Artie Lange I’m thinking of he worked/maybe still does for Howard Stern.
If it’s the Artie Lange I’m thinking of, he was/is a standup comedian and was/is a druggie. He may have been on SNL but not positive.
Mad TV
Thanks, philly.
and the media wonders why guys like Moss and Harbaugh don’t like to talk to them!
thanks Philly/Sean
Artie Lange is a comedian who has had numerous drug problems and been in rehab more times than Jordan has posted wrong information.
Funny guy but he was just looking to provoke a reaction and he did.
Idiot. Does he not realize what city his team is from?? Not that the comments would be OK from any other person, but he’s representing San Francisco for pete’s sake!
Even if he feels that way, he should have common sense enough to say “no comment” or “no” or “I don’t know” to some of those questions. No need to publicize his biggotry right before the Super Bowl.
fesnyc is right …
he was baiting him.. most likely due to what you mentioned 49ergirl..
“The City where the team is from” ..
I don’t think Cully came off dumb.
I think he hasn’t been taught the art of “media-speak”
Wayne Walker used to interview Bill Walsh every week..
and I was constantly amazed by how little he said .. as opposed to how much he spoke ..
The man was a master !
Actually, I think the line of questions was related to what one of the Ravens’ players, Ayanbadejo, had to say about standing up up for gay rights. He used the SB media to bring attention to the fact that 48 states don’t have laws supporting gay marriage.
I think several players were asked about it – Culliver just gave the the most idiotic answer.
I’ve heard people make foolish comments like Cully did but usually it’s after playing beer pong or drunk Jenga.
Cully didn’t secure any Super Bowl endorsement deals with those comments.
He better get a pick 6 to make up for it!
How are you 49erGirl! Culliver’s statement was extremely foolish and hurtful! Its all due to ignorance! It does not matter what city you are from these days, most cities around the world have a large gay or lesbian communities so regardless of the city his statement was just wrong! Hopefully he will learn from this experience to not judge others without knowing much about them! GO NINERS and hope to see Culliver redeems himself with a few big plays on Sunday!!!
Ya, I think Salt Lake City is in the lead these days!
I really don’t know how to talk about this. Growing up in Montana , I didn’t see it. I wasn’t raised with it. But if you don’t approve it it’s discrimination. Is that a bad word? So basically, whatever is thrown at me that I don’t necessarily agree with its discrimination? I guess if its out there it’s out there. Don’t flaunt it on me is my stan
You can’t get a post in anymore with this refresh thing. I was saying is my stance. So what’s next? They wanna come up with something new, we gotta accept it? What happened to standing up for what you believe in. I believe in god and he hasn’t made it clear to me that’s acceptable. So what do you do? If someone don’t believe it’s acceptable in the bible and then you get told that’s discrimination, that don’t give you the right to believe what you believe in.
I’m good Chicago, and you??!! Cannot wait until Sunday!!!!!
49ergirl, he was not an idiot.
Idiot !!! but you know what, the question itself was bad too. Dumb on all parts.
I expect the apology from Mr. Culliver will be delivered Thursday, and that will be that.
He did today.
Cool.
http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/31/49ers-chris-culliver-apologizes-for-homophobic-remarks/
I can see it now “Chris…sign off on this press release if you want to play on Sunday.” (PR rep mumbles under breath…”idiot”)
Exactly. That statement doesn’t sound like Culliver wrote it.
No it did not sound like Mr. Culliver but maybe thats better!
If Cully wrote that “apology” then I’m Wayne Newton. That was the most polished, politically correct thing I’ve ever seen attributed to an athlete.
Yeah, I agree with you guys. I think the best we can hope for is that Cully actually READS the comments someone wrote for him to release. Maybe he’ll learn at least a little from that.
Idiot.
Culliver my man, in this world you no longer can speak your feelings. Some things are best unsaid. Man up, close your mouth, speak nothing to the media. They will crucify you. Learn from Harbaugh – speak nothing. Its just easier that way.
Media will always spin things around!
Undercenter:
EXACTLY !
Culliver did a fine job crucifying himself there. Don’t blame the media for his being a xenophobe.
Yeah, there’s an old saying: “You never have to defend yourself against something you didn’t say.” Mom’s version wasn’t bad, either: “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”
But we’re just talking style here, and I agree with Angus. I’m more interested in the underlying person…and actually believing this BS is far worse than just saying it…IMHO. Don’t blame the press for Cully’s homophobic stupidity.
“in this world you no longer can speak your feelings. ”
So where was this fantasy world where people used to be able to “speak (their) feelings” without consequence? You seem to think we are living in some sort of dark times where people, once able to freely insult or verbally attack without consequence are suddenly repressed. Frankly, I think Cicero, Socrates, Martin Luther King and the untold millions of others who have died while exercising their ability to speak throughout history might just argue against your little persecution theory.
Idiotic comment.
Wow. Strong language coming from a Canadian. Your country is the most politically correct apologetic group of people on the planet. It’s like everyone in Sacramento came from Canada. I really think you should just apologize to the rest of us for Cullivers comments and move on about your night.
I am from Sacramento, and can honestly say I’ve never even been to Canada.
I’m actually just kidding. People in Canada are so polite and seem to apologize every other sentence.
You have to admit Sacramento is sickeningly politically correct.
It’s California in general – the political correctness isn’t limited to the state capital. Plus, the sunshine keeps us all so darn happy about things :-)
Glad you were kidding – I was starting to wonder if you’d blown through happy hour….
I disagree with that. Sacramento is like the capital of political correctness and places like Bakersfield are on the outer limits.
No happy hour today. I’m pacing myself. At roughly 5PM CST on Sunday I will begin an all night party.
My apologies, houston. I’ve never been to Sacramento so I can’t compare it to Canada. I do know it’s not as cold down there as it is here right now.
How is sacramento politically correct? What does that even mean? Actually I’d say sacramento is one of the least politically correct city’s in California. Angry city this is.
I guess it depends on your personal definition of politically correct. Sacramento just seems to have this culture of faux niceness accepting everyone and all their differences while people secretly go home and think John Rocker just may have had some good points. It’s just this whole fakeness to it that’s a turnoff to me.
Why was he being asked these questions anyway? It seems he was being setup somewhat? smh
Houston 9er, i do not understand your comment about SAC! I think there is idiots and good people everwhere including Texas! GO NINERS
Hofer i agree with you! Why would the media even ask such a stupid question!!!
Probably because of the Kwame Harris deal. That’s the only context I can figure. Bigots are bigots, its best he just shuts up and okays the game.
Phone fumble. *plays the game.
Houston. Respectfully, you’re opinion of Sacramento must be from a decidedly Texas context. Sac is wayyyyyyyy more conservative than any coastal area other than San Diego and OC. The San Andreas Fault is a surprisingly good political delineator, except that it shifts east to the Calavars Fault as it passes through the Bay Area.
Bureaucrats in Sac are PC like a lot of places, but the community isn’t.
I have lived in sacramento when it was all mainly fields. And arco arena then brand new was a flickering light in the middle of a flood zone surrounded by fields. And I have to say your comment couldn’t be more wrong Houston.
But this is a huge 49er town too. And you’ve got a pretty good following of that other crap team in the bay.
You’re right Brotha….. Anything north of Vacaville is conservative. And hardly politically correct.
My opinion of Sac is as a result of living there for 3 years. I can honestly say I’ve never lived anywhere that was more PC.
Oh and BTW… Well played Sean.
Thanks Houston. Gotta have some fun while we wait for the big game.
@ Houston
I think we’re both right here; that’s what I meant by perspective. ‘Sac the most PC place you’ve lived.’ Nothing wrong with that statement, it stands on its own. For comparison, when my daughter left Sonoma County to attend Sac State she was astounded at the difference in prevailing attitudes of the community at large. To be specific, Sacramento is more conservative than Sonoma. Austin is considered Liberal/Progressive…….by Texans. Sac might be more progressive than Austin.
There’s a really interesting dyamic in Austin. I spend alot of time in Austin but have never lived there. I would say Austin is as liberal as places like Madison Wisconsin or maybe even San Francisco in who they vote for but it’s a different brand of liberalism. It’s almost as if Austinites aren’t die hard liberals, they just want to be different from the rest of the state. They have a slogan called, “Keep Austin Weird” and that definitely flows into the politics.
Having said all that, Austin is definitely not PC. People are not afraid of offending anyone. They say whats on their mind and they don’t hold back.
I don’t think it matters which way you swing, but this is the most hilarious thing I’ve read in some time.
Rock on Kwame!
Incidentally, his ex-bf’s name is ‘Geier.’
You can’t make this stuff up..
HOOOOOFFFFFFFERRRRR! How are you man? Where have you been? Negotiating?
Who cares? The kid is entitled to his own opinion even if it isn’t popular. He’s a football player, not a sociologist. This is like people listening to what actors say about social and political issues. I could care less what Jamie Foxx thinks about gun control or what Matt Damon thinks about fracking. Those are men who play pretend for a living – their opinions on anything should mean absolutely nothing to anyone. Likewise, Cullivers opinion on homosexuality should mean nothing to anyone.
Exactly…
Very true. But when you work for someone that pays you a lot of money. You have to do your job within the rules that are layed out there. I have absolutely no problem with his opinion. The problem is he’s caused a distraction for the team in the biggest week of their pro careers. Great he speaks his mind, not good where Nd when he did. Hopefully this circus is over and they can get back to basics.
I think to Culliver this was just a stupid silly conversation. I highly doubt it ever crossed his mind that his comments would cause a stir. He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed so he didn’t really see this controversy coming.
It’s a non issue. Only because Culliver is a nickel corner. Ray Lewis was accused of taking a banned substance and that blew over as well. This has been a very uneventful prelude to the SB. The media is trying to create a buzz but you can tell both teams are all about football and the game Sunday.
Well said Houston ! Except Culliver does reflect a point of view from the NFL locker room and if anyone wanted to know how they feel you probably heard the common view on the subject.
I don’t want to know his views on the society or how he or his team mates voted etc. But his comments on his job enviornment are what you might call an expert opinion on the subject.
I for one expected this reaction from most NFL players and even coaches,so I am not interested or surprised by his childish remarks.
It’s hard to take anything we hear on the subject seriously after what instigated the question about this subject(Kwame Harris and his underpants ,lol.). I am sure it is and will be the subject of huge laughs and many jokes in every locker room around the NFL for a long, long time.
You simply can’t make this stuff up (The Kwame story) it’s so out there ,even the g ay community has to think it’s funny,(not the culliver comments).
Houston,
People care because as a pro-athlete (quasi celebrity), he is more influential than a $30,000/year sociologist who nobody will ever hear of. Its fine if you don’t listen to what people in the media/famous people say regarding their personal opinions, but unfortunately, we live in a society where a significant portion of people do seem to care what these people think (and i’m judging this based on how I can never turn on the TV without having to change the channel off of TMZ.)
Personally, I care more about how knowledgeable someone is on a subject more than who they are or what they do for a living. And it does bother me when someone (culliver in this case) uses their platform to promote or glamorize ignorance, even when its unintentional.
Houston,
I care NOT because he’s a Niner, or a celebrity, but because he’s an American. For me, that implies a certain level of tolerance, and means treating others with respect and dignity.
There are plenty of places in the world where disagreeing with someone about their beliefs is grounds for fighting, even killing, whether it’s about sexual orientation, politics, or a slightly different way of relating to “God”.
As Americans, we’re supposed to be above all that.
So Rusty what are you going to do about his opinion?
>>This is like people listening to what actors say about social and political issues
Agreed. If only Reagan had stayed with that chimp and not gotten any big ideas about politics.
He is entitled to his opinion. No one disputes that. And no one should also dispute that other people have the right to vilify him for what they consider a distasteful opinion, and do anything in their power to see he is punished for it. Just because he has a right to an opinion does not mean he is shielded from the consequences of that opinion.
Moss is saying he’s better then Jerry Rice. Culliver says he doesn’t want gay people on the team. Sounds like the 49ere declared war on San Francisco. What’s next?
Kaepernick “I hate Rice-A-Roni”
Aldon Smith “Will they ever replace that ugly Golden Gate bridge with one that looks nice?”
Willis “I wish they would stop ringing those stupid cable car bells. If they had any brains they would put horns on them.”
Bruce Miller “The Grateful Dead, Santana and Jefferson Airplane pale in comparison to Merle Haggard and Pat Boon.”
Staley “Its-Its suck even worse then sourdough bread and Joe’s Special”
JIM NEEDS TO GET THIS EFFING TEAM INLINE. WHAT A PISS POOR 2 DAYS OF MEDIA!!!
And now house cats? A recent tweet from La Michael James… “When I see pics of cats I get sick I seriously like Forreal Forreal hate cats I couldn’t date a girl with a cat” LOL
Brodie thats hilarious
Wassup to all my fellow Niners fans! I found this today. It’s a chance to get a FREE 16×20 framed 49ers photo from the Super Bowl. Man when we win, I want that celebration shot on my wall!!!! Here is the link: http://www.the49ersphotos.com
Go Niners. Here is filling out the second with 6 rings!
The problem here is that socio-political topics like this really have NOTHING to do with football or the super bowl! It was a stupid question and an equally stupid answer. Maybe Benard Pollard was right in thinking that the NFL won’t exist in 30 years. If the NFL starts to get tangled in socio-political debates, then kiss the league goodbye. Not because these issues aren’t important, but because people watch football in order to detach and escape from the everyday grind of our society. If you bring that grind into the NFL people will eventually turn away….not to mention that everyone will be playing in “Michelin Man” outfits in ten years, playing with Nerf footballs, and required to walk and not run in order to avoid pulling a hammy or tearing an ACL.
Now can we PLEASE get on with some FOOTBALL!
I’m not so sure. Remember, Diane Feinstein always said that the Niners first superbowl helped to heal a wounded city after Moscone and Milk were gunned down.
Typical statement of apology from Cully written by the 49ers PR dept.
It’s ok to have your personal convictions on hot button topics, just keep them personal.
Hopefully a good lesson learned for Cully. Now go play ball bud!
Play Mr. Cully, and when you are blanketing a WR on a fly pattern, stop slowing way down when you turn to locate the ball. Keep dem legs churning!
I’m going to get blasted for saying this, but I agree with Culliver – not the way he said it, but how he feels. Come on, be honest. How many of you would feel comfortable in a locker room with gay teammates?
By the way, what the heck is LGBT?
Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgendered.
Are you afraid that they are going to soap you up Nick?
Or what do you would you like them to do?
Lesbian
Gay
Bisexual
Transsexual
Don’t ask me why they are all lumped together.
I believe it is the acronym for Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, and Transgender.
As I said earlier, Cully has a right to have his personal convictions, it’s just not right anymore to vocalize them in today’s PC driven society.
It’s OK to have personal convictions, it is not OK to use them as an excuse to bully people or take away their freedoms.
Grimey is right. Have whatever feelings you want but its not cool to bash people with your hate.
20 or 30 years ago it was all a big joke probably like ethnicity was before that. I always figure it’s none of my business what adults are up to as long they aren’t hurting anyone else.
I say allow Co-Ed showers. ;) seems fair.
Nick, where does it stop. gays in gym locker rooms or public bathrooms or school locker rooms/bathrooms or the same water fountain or bus… where does it stop… what message does that send the young gay people out there terrified to come out…
…and no I’m not gay, just looking at it from both sides, and not filtered by some religious influence.
Hate is never a good thing.
That guy is just angry at the world! Hate is his shadow!
The guy’s personal views are his business. He just has to understand that when you say provocative things during a media free for all with everyone under the sun looking for a story to break, it’s going to get scrutinized.
Agree with u Nick
Nick: “How many of you would feel comfortable in a locker room with gay teammates?”
You admittedly don’t know much about the subject, so I would encourage you to expand your knowledge base and experiences (doesn’t mean go have gay sex).
I had a gay teamate in HS and in college. It was fine. I lived with a gay guy for a year and half and he never tried anything. Just because someone is gay doesn’t mean they want to fork you.
Consider that gay men have always served in the military alongside straight men (its always happened, its just recently become policy). The scale of seriousness for them makes the concerns of NFL locker rooms seem petty.
Good post Dangle. Homophobia appears to be the last acceptable bastion of hateful bigotry.
If I was to post something on here like Culliver said, only about blacks, or jews, or whoever, I’d be instantly banned.
Folks,
I’m not advocating discrimination or hate. I’m all for equality and could care less what consenting adults do in private. However, there’s a reason men and women use separate restrooms and locker rooms – because there’s an element of sexual attraction involved. The same reasoning that’s used for separating men and women locker rooms/restrooms holds in the case of straits versus gays. This is not discrimination, it’s common sense.
Are you saying you are attracted to gay men and need to be separated from them?
The thing is Nick, gay people are already going through anxiety, low self esteem and stress, the last thing they are going to do is attack a naked teammate in the shower or making advances to anyone, if they want action, they probably know where to go and will find gay men elsewhere.
The same reasoning that’s used for separating men and women locker rooms/restrooms holds in the case of straits versus gays.
Are there separate restrooms for gays? I didn’t know that. What does the symbol on the door look like?
[/pitching soft balls to the wise asses]
And someone forgot to tell my gym about the separate-locker-rooms-for-gays thing. It’s definitely integrated in there.
”The derogatory comments I made yesterday were a reflection of thoughts in my head, but they are not how I feel” SAYWHAT????
He has thoughts in his head? How did they get there? From his feelings maybe? Or do they come floating in from outer space!
If you want to have an opinion at least stand behind it, don’t hide behind lawyerspeak!
My favorite is “mental mistake.” Are their any other kind of mistakes?
No one ever says “my brain wanted to run a slant pattern, but my legs decided to to dance the Tango instead.”
Sounds like he needs another day of
brainwashingsensitivity training. As a civil society we cannot tolerate intolerance.Well said.
MS:
Perfect !!!
The only thing we cannot tolerate is people who are intolerant of other people’s culture… and the dutch!
CULLIVER: We don’t got no white people on the team. They’ve got to get up out of here if they do. Can’t be with that sweet stuff.
Q: But they might be able to play well.
CULLIVER: Nah. Can’t be in the locker room…nah. Kaep’s Ok though, he’s only half – white.
Like that exchange a little better, MS, Domingo and TIM?
Totally agree.
Stand behind your comment son, but wait till after the Superbowl… You need to focus b/c you are going to have T. Smith and J. Jones trying to leap over you like Jones from GB did the other week… actually, and with full pun intended,… Jones simply treated you like a little ‘punk’!
JH, time to get these kids inline, “you gotz yo beeatchez are running wild, up in hurr”
So it’s OK to bash ebonics but be PC about gays?
Hate has no place in society. It’s unfortunate that these comments were made, but not surprising. There are many men and women that would feel uncomfortable showering and changing around a gay person. They see it as a conflict of interest, and in some aspects they are right. Let’s say a woman was a phenomenal football player and played for the Niners. Would she share the locker room? No, they would provide a “alternate team wardrobe station” for her, away from the dudes. Why? Because it is inappropriate for members of the opposite sex to be naked around each other in a professional environment. You could say that it is inappropriate for anybody to be naked around others in a professional environment, but the locker room is a unique situation. Straight women are attracted to men and straight men are attracted to women. On the flip side, gay men are attracted to other men and lesbian women are attracted to other women. From a sexual preference point of view, it’s like having a woman in a guys locker room, except that it’s a guy. As absurd as it is to think of straight men and women sharing a locker room, it’s considered insensitive and discriminating for men and women to not be willing to share the locker room with a gay man or a lesbian woman. Like I said, hate has no place in society, but people on both sides of the fence need to be more realistic about the issue in general. Straight people shouldn’t make homophobic slurs and gay people shouldn’t expect straight people to embrace or support their lifestyle.
BigP.
Your analogy doesn’t make sense. If you have 1 woman in the locker room, you are protecting HER not the 50+ other guys.
When you have ONE gay guy, do you really think you have to protect ALL those big boys from this ONE individual??? I don’t think the guy would even ATTEMPT to do anything, just like nothing happened when there WERE gay guys in the locker room. Or are you that homophobic that you think there never were any gay players!?!?!?
This blog is becoming way too complicated! How bout dem 49ers!
D,
Who said anything about protecting anybody? From what? I said they would be separated “Because it is inappropriate for members of the opposite sex to be naked around each other in a professional environment.” That goes both ways. Do you think women would want a man in their locker room? I’m not homophobic at all. I have gay and lesbian friends and I have no problem with their lifestyle. Of course there are gay people in locker rooms and there always have been. Nobody said there weren’t. The bottom line is that for many people, knowing that a gay person was in your locker room would create the same unease that having a member of the opposite sex in the locker room would, yet the outside world doesn’t look at it that way. Measure twice before cutting next time.
@ BigP:
I appreciate the way you addressed the issue in a grown up, thoughtful way. I can’t say the same for Culliver. Not that it would have mattered, because there are plenty of people who disagree with Culliver’s view who will not respond in a grown up, thoughtful way. Valid concerns, like the one you raise, will be steamrolled over by angry and/or smug denunciations of “intolerance” and “bigotry.” I’m not sure that is much of an improvement over the actual bigotry and intolerance that infects so much of the debate.
The only issue I have with your analogy, and I am not sure how much it changes anything, is the following. From a sexual preference point of view, having a gay man in the locker room is not the same as having a straight woman, at least not for the rest of the team. As you note, “straight women are attracted to men and straight men are attracted to women.” Straight men, however, are not attracted to gay men. While it is possible the gay player may be attracted to one or more of his teammates, there is no mutuality of attraction. I think that the absence of that possible mutuality makes it a very different situation from men and women sharing a locker room. I can’t say that it fully addresses the concern you raised, but it is a difference.
And while Dee could have phrased his comment less abrasively and refrained from the personal attack, I share his view that much of the discomfort some people have with the idea stems from the misguided fear that openly gay players in the locker room will be coming on to the straight guys. (Hey, I know that they would all be after my junk.) From that perspective, the coed locker room analogy isn’t so much a reasonable examination of what is appropriate in the workplace, but rather an attempt to transfer the fear that a coed locker room would lead to unwanted sexual advances, rape, etc. to the idea of having an openly gay player in the locker room. While I recognize that the foregoing is most definitely not your position, I think that it was what prompted Dee’s comment.
Finally, I think it is difficult to make the case that accepting an openly gay man in the locker room means you embrace or support his lifestyle. It just means you support his right to pursue his chosen profession and be who he is.
There is a belief (it may be unfounded; I don’t know) that there are significant numbers of not-so-closeted lesbians in certain women’s sports. If that is true, it would be interesting and perhaps instructive to know how the locker room issue has played out in those sports. How have the teams/organizations handled it? Has the mingling of lesbians and straight women in the same locker room led to discomfort, confrontation or inappropriate behavior?
Anyway, it’s a complicated issue and shouldn’t be decided by who can scream the loudest. Thanks for not screaming.
Thanks C Balls,
as always you are to explain things more complete and eloquent.
BigP.
If you want to be nitpicky about words, please tell me what is ‘inappropriate’ about having a woman in the locker room? It might be uncomfortable, but inappropriate? And tell what ‘ Professional Environment does not have Men and Women work together? Remember when female reporters were considered ‘Inappropriate’ in the locker room?
BigP
Since you are not homophobic, I suggest that you tell your gay friends that it is inappropriate for them to be in the locker room. Please report back with their response………….
Dee Phiant,
Stop trying to manipulate words. You said, “If you want to be nitpicky about words, please tell me what is ‘inappropriate’ about having a woman in the locker room? It might be uncomfortable, but inappropriate? And tell what ‘ Professional Environment does not have Men and Women work together?”
That is different then what I actually said:
“Because it is inappropriate for members of the opposite sex to be NAKED around each other in a professional environment.” You are so riled up about the subject that you are now trying to manipulate the comment. Since you are ignoring the fact that it is a football environment and not a typical work place, it seems like a waste of time.
I texted my friend this morning, who happens to be gay and relayed my following comments to him: ‘The bottom line is that for many people, knowing that a gay person was in your locker room would create the same unease that having a member of the opposite sex in the locker room would, yet the outside world doesn’t look at it that way.’ His exact text response? “Well, why do you think they have separate locker rooms in the first place?”
You are so desperate to paint somebody as homophobic that you completely butcher and manipulate their comments to aid your argument. Only people with an agenda do that.
Great post Claude.
I think the issue is about tolerance, and not whether you agree or disagree. We live in what is viewed as a Civil Society with rules that allow people to think for themselves and live the way they want within the laws of their surroundings.
The reason there is a seperation of Church and State in the constitution is to keep personal beliefs from overriding the rights of others. Culliver’s views are probably shared by a high percentage of the population, but that doesn’t give him the right to enact it, just like no one should be told who they can or can’t marry. It’s about the rights of the people and a gay Football player should not have his rights infringed upon by a bigoted idealogy.
>>Has the mingling of lesbians and straight women in the same locker room led to discomfort, confrontation or inappropriate behavior?
Doubt it. Irrational fear of non-consensual sodomization by a member of the same gender seems to be limited to the male half of the species.
I don’t care if you are homophobic or not BigP, it only bothers me that you present yourself as not being homophobic while you have made it VERY clear that you don’t want gay guys in the locker room because they are gay. Not because they can’t play football, but because they are gay.
C Balls put it more succinctly; “that much of the discomfort some people have with the idea stems from the misguided fear that openly gay players in the locker room will be coming on to the straight guys. (Hey, I know that they would all be after my junk.) From that perspective, the coed locker room analogy isn’t so much a reasonable examination of what is appropriate in the workplace, but rather an attempt to transfer the fear that a coed locker room would lead to unwanted sexual advances, rape, etc. to the idea of having an openly gay player in the locker room.”
You admitted that gay guys HAVE been in the locker room and no incidents have been reported. Is this because the straight guys didn’t know or because the gay guys know WHEN the right time for sexual advances is appropriate?
OK, so I’ll rephrase my question and you can text your gay friend: if it is inappropriate for gays to be in the locker room naked with 50 straight guys because he might be sexually attracted to one or more of them. Please report back with his response……… that is if you first tell him that you don’t want him in the locker room with you because you know he is gay.
This is just too funny! To my opinion this whole issue of gender and sexuality has been over complicated by our species! Yes our spiritual belief and cultural back round impacts our opinion but why do we spend so much energy and time to create separation between genders and create standards for how you need to act if you are a female, male, heterosexual, homosexual or lesbian! Wouldn’t be more important to focus our energy to accept everyone, if you do not accept then tolerate everyone or even find out why you can’t accept them!!!
My point here is why not just focus on respecting each other regardless of gender, sexuality, spiritual belief or heritage! If you are religious aren’t we all created by one god? Also who cares about a gay guy in the locker room as long as he is respectful of others!
Having separate shower facilities — Straight, Gay, Transgender — would solve the problem. The DeBartolos believe in equal treatment and rights for all and could certainly afford and make room for it in their new stadium facility. Call the architects.
That’s called segregation. It’s been tried.
Separate but equal. Yikes.
By the way does anyone here realize just how hurtful these sorts of comments can be — when a transgender who has transformed himself
and is now obviously a female is referred, whether unintentionlly or not, as
“him.” Just so debasing, I tell you. So debasing. Go Niners.
The Culliver question should not have been asked. The answer should have been, “Ask me something about football”. However, once th stated his view, Culliver should have stuck to his guns and the team and the NFL should not have butted in. Culliver’s opinion is none of their business.
It is inappropriate to characterize Culliver’s statement as involving hate. He apparently disapproves of homosexuality and prefers not to be around gays when he is at work. That is his right.
The movement to lockstep mindthink reflected in some of the comments above is far more dangerous to our country that anybody’s opinion on homosexuality, pro or con.
“However, once th stated his view, Culliver should have stuck to his guns and the team and the NFL should not have butted in. Culliver’s opinion is none of their business.”
He has an employer. Most employers take a real dim view of this sort of thing. That’s why they have HR/risk management departments. And PR departments and legal departments in the case of the Niners and NFL. They will weed this stuff out one way or another.
Quite literally, his opinions are their business.
Wrong. There is no legal implication for him giving an answer to a hypothetical question. He would have to do something to a gay for legalities to be activated.
No…this was just an example of political correctness type censorship.
Frankly, I think we all should be concerned about this type of harassment. We all will eventually hold an unpopular opinion.
1984 lives.
That’s not wrong. Work for a giant corporation and try that. Issue a press release and see how long you have your job.
We went through this Cully-type thing a few years ago when Garrison Hearst candidly admitted he wouldn’t be comfortable with a gay team mate in the locker room. Garrison and the team survived, but for a member of a SF team, these types of comments always draw interest.
Neither man said hateful or threatening things. They expressed aversion. My take is that their intolerance could be ‘curable’ if they knew gay people and discovered that they’re just like everybody else. That’s how it worked for me, although I worked through it over 40 years ago. People tend to fear the unknown and unfamiliar.
So, did you ever make a statement that someone challenged you on? I have, and sometimes on consideration I’ve changed my mind or had my opinion evolve. Maybe Chris, not growing up here, hasn’t been exposed { no jokes! : >) } to gays as part of society. Maybe too, he doesn’t want to change his mind. That would be different than me, but it could be the case.
In that case he just needs to learn not to get trapped by questioners. Crabs got a bad rap for some of his sulky responses in the past, but he was usually defending himself by brushing off questions. If Crabs had been asked this he might have said “Get away from me with your dumbass questions, Man.”
Is it nudity in the locker room? Because society and the NFL let women into the locker room after games. What about co-ed dorms in the colleges?
Women on submarines? Out in the field with the troops? Times are changing.
Finally to Jake’s question above: Ebonics vs PC about gay people:
*sigh* IMHO understanding that some people are wired differently has zero equivalency to the lame sorry-ass attempts to justify the made-up Ebonics nonsense. JPN schooled us all the other day on vernacular and evolving language, but teaching kids in school to operate in a sub-set dialect that’s little understood and accepted in the greater society is a surefire way to have these kids grow up apart from society and identified with the societal elements that can’t help them thrive and be employed.
Ebonics is like taking ESL Immigrant kids who speak Spanish and teaching them a Pre-Colombian native dialect instead of English; that’ll sure help ‘em in the USA! The Oakland School District could not do a worse job.
they’re just like everybody else.”
Riiiiight.
I believe that they are different is a significant part of the issue.
The sort of comments that Culliver made would not have been tolerated on the 9ers of the 80′s. The 9ers during the 80′s had an openly gay head trainer. His name was Lindsey something if my memory serves correct.
In a story in the Chron it was said if any player would act or speak to or about this man in a inappropriate manner they would be “handled” by Motana, Clark or Lott and if it was Ronnie who intervened it was’nt going to be just a talk. Its just sad that we have gone backwards in the last 30 years not foreward.
+1, Coach.
Today is Jackie Robinsons 94th B-Day. Does anyone else find it ironic that 65 years after Robinson broke the color barrier in MLB we are having the same conversation about who a player would feel comfortable with in the locker room. 65 years ago there were white players who said having AA players in the locker room would destroy team comraderie/trust. It was crap back then just as its crap today.
Well said, Coach!
good analogy coach, and happy bday Jackie!
Here is PFF’s analysis of the Ravens’ deep passing game vs. the 49ers’ pass defense:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/31/analysis-notebook-super-bowl-preview-ii/
Essentially, the author believes that 49ers play some unusual coverages that may be unfamiliar to Flacco and that they mask those coverages well (mainly because, regardless of the actual coverage, they start with both safeties playing high, so everything looks the same at the beginning of the play). He suggests that the 49ers are as likely to fool Flacco into throwing an interception as he is to hit a big play.
What he doesn’t mention is the possibility that the 49ers’ mixing and masking of their coverages may cause Flacco to hesitate on one or more deep throws. Although the Falcons hit a couple of big plays against the 49ers in the NFCCG, I thought those plays were do to unique and unlikely to be repeated factors (blown coverage on first TD pass; unGodly throw and catch by Ryan and Jones, respectively, against good coverage on the second). I thought Ryan hurt the 49ers mainly by throwing quickly before the pass rush had a chance to get to him. Same with Brady in the second half of the Patriots game.
While Flacco has done more of that recently, it isn’t his usual game. He likes to throw deep. Obviously, when he does, he holds the ball longer. If the 49ers’ changing coverages give him any pause when he is looking to throw deep, the pass rush has a good chance of getting to him.
Rice is the key for the Ravens. If he gets going, the play action deep pass will open up for Flacco.
@ Grant:
Depending upon what you mean by “gets going,” that’s probably correct, although I wonder whether the inverted cover 2 coverage mentioned in the article might allow for a safety to help with the run without too much risk. I am unfamiliar with that coverage.
In addition, Smith and Jones allegedly have trouble with press coverage, which the 49ers’ DBs can play with some proficiency. If the 49es can take one of them away with press coverage, then one deep safety may be enough.
Should I assume you have doubts about Carlos Rogers’ ability to handle Boldin one-on-one?
How dare you bring football analysis into our debate about Alex Smith and Homophobic players Claude.
If we must talk… ugh…football, then this article is very informative and interesting. I think the key is to make Flacco hold the ball longer than he wants to because he is not very mobile and is not a consistently accurate passer. Ray Rice has not been a big difference maker so far in two of the three playoff games so the Niners need to make it 3 out of 4 and force Flacco to be the difference maker. If they do that, they win convincingly imo.
This is exactly how I think Fangio wants to ‘attack’ Flacco. Tempt him to to make the risky play enough times and the defense will get it’s big play. It’s playing with his strength, the deep ball, which could be dangerous, but I think it may lure him into a game changing mistake. I think the Niners may disguise coverages more than ususal, sometimes they take the ‘just go ahead and try to beat us’ mentality a little too much. All cards on the table this week.
Flacco threw many quick passes against NE last week. A few of them resulted in big plays just before the pass rush got to Flacco. I think the Niners need to do a better job of getting to the QB. But the threat of Rice busting a big one will somewhat neutralize the Niners pass rush. The Ravens have the same problem on D against the Niner’s O.
Like someone on CSN said last night, each team is facing it’s own nemesis on Sunday. This could be a high scoring game. The one with fewest mistakes will win it.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. This is above all Opinions, Feelings this are Constitution this are Freedom so I say to all Americans don’t EVER LET THEM TAKE IT …………………………PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION
@sputnik “PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION” i feel that comment abridges my freedom of speech but hey thanks anyway
@old coach
You are right my friend , I’m will not ever keep my Mouth shut this is not a democrat thing or Republican thing this is are Constitution it It shall not be Infringed
Your opinions are fine until you infringe upon someone else’s rights with your behavior.
Bigotry and prejudice are wrong no matter how you slice it. It is what it is. And those old hatreds are slowly dying out. And thankfully so.
Adam: Culliver did not infringe on anybody’s rights. He had his right to express his opinion infringed on by his employer pressuring him into issuing an apology for expressing his opinion.
If he did something to infringe on the legal rights of a fellow 49er employee, it would be a different matter. However, he didn’t.
However, it does seem that you might be prejudiced against someone who does not fine homosexuality appropriate. You may be the bigoted one here.
drsgrosse,
He is entitled to his opinion but he also needs to use common sense when choosing the forum to express it in. It just so happens the city he plays in has one of the largest and most vocal gay/lesbian communities in the country. The team has a long relationship with the association that represents that community. If a player says something based on his stereotypical views that offends that group of people, it really doesn’t benefit him or his team. He represents his team in this enviornment and if he is misrepresenting their thoughts and policies it’s a problem.
He has an employer. I don’t care what his opinions are. But yeah, I don’t care for bigots. Sorry.
There are only two things that matter in this world JESUS AND Country I don’t care if any of that Offends any one.
I’m offended “football” isn’t included in your list.
Auto…..+1 and if we were in the south NASCAR would have to be included
There are only two things that matter in this world – to a blogger named Sputnik – JESUS AND Country I don’t care if any of that Offends any one.
Fixed it for you.
Country music?
If Lang had asked him should all gays be put on a island? He would have agreed. That’s pretty much the attitude of many American sub cultures. Crosses race and religion. And a basic belief of teenage-(more or less) boys everywhere.
I blame the Bush family education cuts .
Well,I shouldn’t have tagged on that last wisecrack..because the point of what I wrote was very true.
@Rocket
That means every one you Included nice try
You don’t speak for me Sputnik. I don’t share your view of what matters most in the world.
Neither, apparently, does Chris Culliver.
You’re not alone, Rocket.
Plus, I always put family first, then football….except for this coming Sunday of course, lol!
49ergirl,
You can speak for me anytime. Family is always at the top of my list but sometimes they get moved into the corner for awhile when the Niners are playing.
Artie Lange on right now. 239 on Direct TV.
Yep I sure do like it or not
He should not have had to apologize at all, and I’m not going to say anything else without stirring up a firestorm from the left and right as I am very opposed to the gays and lesbians, but I leave them be. We are catering far too much to them just because a little thing was said. Next thing you know, blacks will react to the N word again. Man, you got Crabtree, Smith, former player Harris, and Culliver sticking his foot in his mouth as if he was a good secondary player. It’s one thing to hit, but can you pick off the pass?
Catering far too much to them? Why? Because they want to be treated as human beings? Because they want to go to work without fear of being harassed for their sexual orientation?
I thought the wheels fell off the wagon with your complaints about not having a consistent 300-yard-a-game qb, but, Darren, you are a despicable human being, as well.
Come on Fred, Prop 8 was voted and should be the end of it, but we’re wasting time taking this to US Supreme court to take away the will of the people, just like York and his family took away the will of the 49ers fans and the 49ers team to santa Clara. But oh no, you people prefer the so called equal right of same genders that SHOULD NOT call what they want in ‘unity’ a ‘marriage.’ They can call it anything they want BUT marriage just like in Santa Clara, the 49ers should not call themselves SF 49ers. Boy, I thought the wheel feel off your wagon too, Fred. I though we were all born out of the woman’s womb, but I guess you were dropped on your head.
yeah, I heard that people made this same argument when black and white people wanted to get married, women wanted the right to vote, and black people didn’t want to be considered second class citizens, let alone slaves, anymore.
I think you should stick to pining for a gunslinger quarterback and a misguided idea of what football should look like.
Fred, I’m in full agreement of everything and equal rights. But under God’s eyes, Fred, you’re wrong upon the gay and lesbian as it says pointedly in the bible that this sort of action is not condoned. I’ll agree somewhat that Culliver said it stupidly, but having to apologize and make nice is dumb. I’m sure he was forced to apologize. He didn’t do it on his own. Just like you people FORCE me to like CK, to like Harbaugh, to like York. 1. I don’t like somebody that has 2 parents that ruined a good team. 2. I don’t like a man that says to his QB you’re the man, then bumps him out of the way for ‘his boy’ in CK. I thought JT was bad, CK is a lot worse. 3. I don’t like a QB that can’t throw or lead, and what’s with the thumbs up and kissing the bicep? I thought Vince McMahon’s ‘booty club’ was dumb enough, but mocking Tebow is classless for it’s like poking fun at the handicapped.
For starters, let’s not get into a discussion about the many things the Bible tells us to do and not to do on a football site, ok?
now:
1) Whether you like to admit it or not, the Yorks inherited a mess due to DeBartolo. The team was over 20 million dollars in dead cap money, Candlestick was in shambles, there was no, I repeat, NO way to secure funding for a stadium in San Francisco, and the team was full of aging players who were making too much money for too little reward.
2) So, basically, you are saying you hate Bill Walsh, George Seifert, Bill Parcells, Bill Belicheck, Bill Cowher, and other coaches who started the no. 2 guy when no. 1 was injured, and then kept no. 1 on the bench when he was healthy. The common theme here is: all of these guys were successful with their decision.
3) Here’s the only ‘football’ argument that you have made that holds a droplet of water, regardless of that little knock to Jim (Vince is the wrestling promoter) McMahon. However, you are dead wrong. Kaepernick not only can lead, but unless you really haven’t been following the team and have been under a rock (I’m assuming so, based on, I dunno, every post you have made), but the team is fully drinking his Kool-Aid. As for throwing ability, you might want to watch some of the game tape for this year. Especially, you should compare intermediate sideline throws between Kap and Smith. Kap can make throws Smith can’t. In fact, Kap can make throws that only the elite, or close-to-elite, qbs can make: accurate intermediate sideline throws, aka, the crucial third down throw.
Oh, by the way, Kap was doing the bicep kiss when he was a freshman at Nevada. Sorry, but he isn’t mocking anyone.
I still think Kap’s bicep kissing is inappropriate as he’s either mocking Tebow or advertising for weirdoes, and i’m not talking about women. NOOOOBODY, when they were QB on the 49ers whether they won or lost ever did something like this ever. It’s like he’s mocking the opposition to me.
The 49ers sold out alex Smith and have done so ever since they drafted him. They had several opportunities to have an Oline, WR, TE and nobody has done a thing to make Smith a winner. He wants out of SF because the man he trusted in Harbaugh turned his back on him. Harbaugh should have left the QB alone. Now CK is an RG 3 injury waiting to happen next year. Don’t forget MOntana/young/even Garcia were injury prone.
It’s easy on 3rd down: overload the line, double up Crabtree, and CK can and will be sacked. I don’t see why I got to drink the koolaid and hate Alex Smith like you’re asking me to and like a man in CK that stole his job.
Well, no one is asking you to drink the Kool Aid. They would rather you actually watched football instead of had an opinion about it.
Well, Fred, my job requires I work on Sundays, except for this Sunday. But I only asked for that day off not to watch the SUperbowl. I can’t stomach being in the same place with other nitwit for 49ers fans cheering like girls every time the 49ers do something. Every time they win, it’s another nail into Alex Smith. Anyway, I’m calling up my old friend tomorrow and see if I can go over to her house and not see the Superbowl. I’ll tape the game, but if the 49ers win the Superbowl, I”m giving it to my coworker and my alex Smith jersey.
Aww, further adventures of a troll desperately seeking attention. I’m done. You are not only the worst fan I have ever had the displeasure of having a flame war with online, but you’re a victim of your hubris, as well. Have fun not being a fan this weekend, or ever again. NO ONE will miss you.
Well Fred, if the 49ers lose, it was nice knowing you. Maybe God had plans for Ray Lewis like he had plans for the BUS in Jerome Bettis. That’s OK, I”m a forgiving 49er fan when the 49ers lose.