The 49ers need a third quarterback

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SANTA CLARA

Help me understand Kyle Shanahan’s logic.

Shanahan doesn’t want to play his new quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo, because Garoppolo isn’t ready. He doesn’t have a good enough understanding of the playbook, the game plan, the audibles, the checks at the line of scrimmage — none of that stuff. He can’t function. He’s been on the team only one week. If he goes in the game this weekend against the New York Giants, he could get himself or someone else injured.

Shanahan also doesn’t want to play Garoppolo because the offensive line can’t protect him. If he goes in the game and gets hammered, he may choose not to re-sign long term with the 49ers. Playing him now could kill contract negotiations and ruin any good faith the Niners have with Garoppolo and his agent, Don Yee.

I get all that.

Here’s where I’m confused:

If the starting quarterback, C.J. Beathard, gets hurt, Garoppolo has to play — he’s the only other quarterback on the roster. The 49ers don’t have a third QB. It’s Garoppolo or nobody. Does that make sense to you?

Click here to read the rest of my column.

This article has 319 Comments

  1. Grant,

    KS answered your question. To bring in a third QB they would have to cut someone. If I remember correctly, Hoyer was originally in the Garoppolo deal. We agreed to cut him so the Jimmy G deal would be completed. I guess we could have said screw the Pats and kept Hoyer, but that’s bad business and could lead to teams not wanting to work with Lynch.

    They have a simplified offense ready to go if Garoppolo has to go in. KS has said they’re taking it week to week.

    1. Yeup Kyle already explained it to Grant but Grant is set on making it a big deal as usual you know how those Cohns are lol

  2. He doesn’t want to start Garoppolo and would prefer to wait to play him, but in an emergency he will. I’m guessing the plan is to start JG after the bye so it’s just getting through this week they have to worry about.

  3. I’m pretty sure cutting someone from this college team full of scrubs who were working at Mcdoanlds last week would not be that hard if they wanted to add a third quarterback.

  4. Yes it makes sense, in fact it’s very simple. If CJB goes down, Garoppolo hands the ball off on virtually every play, with the occasional play action pass tossed in for good measure.

    1. Grant, I was under the impression that releasing Hoyer was, in an unofficial kind of way, part of the deal for Garoppolo. I’m pretty sure the Patriots made it clear to the 49ers that they would need an opportunity to sign Hoyer if they were going to trade Jimmy G.

      What’s the risk in allowing Jimmy to hand the ball off 30-40 times, with the occasional PAP, or designed roll out thrown in for good measure? Do they really stand much less of a chance against the current wide receiver-less NY Giants with this approach, than they do signing a QB off the street?

      A better question to me is, why haven’t they resigned Lorenzo Jerome?, now that they’ve lost Ward and Tartt? I like Colbert’s potential, but I see a bigger need for depth at FS than I do at QB.

      1. You make a good point about running 30-40 times. What’s the difference between 3 and outs via running or passing? Maybe we should adopt this strategy now and let CJ and the rest of the offense heal.

  5. Add a QB? another QB that doesn’t know the system? what will that do? At least Jimmy G is 2 weeks into the playbook now.

    BTW, a number of passes to run almost seems like Shanny is really trying out Beat- Hard.. giving him as many reps with the ball on his hand as he can. Who knows, next year things could click pretty good for him, you all have to remember, his stats are still better than Alex Smith’s first season who btw might have been a better team than this one.

    I’ll take Young Gore over Hyde all day. Smith had a good coach, McCarthy

    1. Who wouldn’t take a young Gore over Hyde all day long? Frank Gore is the greatest 49ers RB of all time (no offense to #33 Roger Craig) and he’s a no brainer, future Hall of Famer!

  6. I do think that it would be nice to bring Nick Mullens up from the practice squad just in case….but what do I know lol Either way I’m getting annoyed with everyone first saying how bad we need a quarterback, when now we finally got one (fingers crossed) the naysayers are picking every “what if” apart. Lets just pray for a freaking win on sunday no matter who’s playing

    1. Wins are counter productive to the future at this point. Instead what I want is every team that beats SF to go on a 7 game losing streak so SF keeps the number 1 pick.
      This season is over. The staff is focusing on the draft and not game planning dor the next opponent. That is a waste of resources. Right now they are auditioning the 3rd string of 2018.

      1. Right..thinking ‘long term’ and whats best for this team is first rebuilding the foundation, a solid OL, and now trading down the 1st pick for a mid 1st and 2nd rd pick. That means losing the rest of the games which nobody really wants but, just remember long term. This season is obviously over. Placing Jimmy G in the hands of the matadors and being the next pinada is ridiculous. Cut Fusco and bring up Mullens if they have to. Drafting OL Quenton Nelson in the mid 1st is a start and I think a must. How can KS come up with a lie or excuse saying he didn’t know it was over 50 passes. He needs an OC that is responsible. CJ is getting killed by the worst OL in football. Jimmy G shouldn’t risk throwing fast because he’ll still get hit hard and knocked down possibly tweaking something and running plays all day with this OL would be a little safer and they would lose anyways so I guess that works. First two draft picks OL plus a solid FA lineman, then D and other needs.

  7. This was the worst thing that could’ve have happened to Garoppolo. If he played out the year in New England he hits free agency and likely signs a huge long term contract with a big signing bonus to a team of HIS choosing….Jags would’ve been a good choice for him.
    Now, he could very easily lose out on his big payday.
    If he doesn’t play at all he likely gets tagged by the 49ers and is forced to play for this dumpster fire of a team next year.
    If he does play and gets pummelled like CJ has so far then his value drops significantly on the free agent market and it would be unlikely the 49ers would tag him based on the likely poor play he would show because of the team around him.
    If he’s mediocre it’s still the same scenario.
    The only way this trade benefits him at all is if he plays lights out like D. Watson. The difference is he actually had a decent team/receivers/OL around him. Garoppolo didn’t show anything spectacular in when did get limited play time with the Patriots….a SB winning team. No chance even plays to that level on this team.

    1. With a 5 pass playlist Garappolo has a lightening fast release and can at least avoid hits by getting rid of the ball. If he’s got any smarts he’ll throw the ball away quite a bit.

    2. “Garoppolo didn’t show anything spectacular in when did get limited play time with the Patriots.

      In six quarters. 43 of 63 (68.3%), 502 YDs, 4 TDs, 0 INT, 8.0 Y/A, 113.3 rating.

      64 quarters in a season, so multiply that by 10.

      5020 YDs, 40 TDs, 0 INTs.

      1. Thanks #80

        I guess that I fall into the same opinion as 49reasons and whine country….get him in the game….if we run the table or if the table runs us…what’s the big difference ? If Jimmy gives us the best chance to win (hard not to ) then play him…! CJB is one helluva’ gutsy player whom we’re going to need down the road, and JG needs to get some game time to keep the rust from gathering….Mullens ? Bring him up…we’re already paying him….Rather than “Po’ me”, we should be testing out EVERY player on the 94. If they never see the field, what have we gained ? With this mindset, Joe Montana would never have been discovered….

    3. No, the worse thing that could have happened to Garoppolo would have been being traded to the Browns. With his limited starting experience, he was never going to get a Cousins like deal in the upcoming offseason.

      Garoppolo is only just turned 26. QB salaries are only going up. He’ll get his payday, hopefully with the 49ers.

  8. Makes sense to me. Calculated gamble that Beathard makes it to the bye upright. That’s when Jimmy Mac will be coming back….

      1. Besides the rookie already has Beat Hard written on his back. It’s much like wearing a sign saying kick me or tear on dotted line.

  9. This article is a bunch of hand wringing over nothing. First, no QB would be better than Garappolo if we signed him.

    Second, the chances of using a 3rd string QB is pretty infinitesimal. The last time I’ve heard of it happening was back in the 2010 season (Bears – 2010 NFC Championship Game) and that was because the coach benched the second-string back-up for incompetency after the starter got hurt.

    Third, if you’re down to your 3rd string QB in this offense… Does anyone honestly think that it would matter? That’s some mighty-fine, weapons-grade wishful-thinking if you think it really would.

    Last, as for the 49ers, right now the team is so injured that they can barely field a scout-team as it is as we have put TWENTY-THREE PLAYERS ON IR now that Gilliam was just put on IR and we have up to 10-players, last I read this AM, that might not be able to practice this week. They need to deal with being able to practice and not worry about the tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny…. (100x later) chance that 3rd string QB gets into a game.

    OH, FWIW, now that we’ve gotten past that laughable proposition:

    Fusco made PFF’s team of the Week. He only surrendered one pressure all game and was solid run-blocking. Of course, you have to wonder how much of that was because everyone else was just so much worse his guy never had a chance… (Which is one of my many issues with PFF’s grading system.)

    RG – Brandon Fusco, San Francisco 49ers
    PFF Grade: 88.9

    Elite Stat: Brandon Fusco allowed one total pressure from 59 pass blocking snaps.

    The 49ers offense didn’t have a good outing, and their offensive line struggled overall, but Brandon Fusco was the lone bright spot on that unit. Fusco allowed just one hurry across a monstrous workload of 59 pass-blocking snaps, but also made a few key blocks on the 15 running plays he was out there for.

    And the much-maligned Pinon got a shout-out too:

    Punter: Bradley Pinion, San Francisco 49ers

    Pinion was awesome on Sunday, with three of his eight punts landing inside the opposing 20 yard line. Impressing both as a punter and as a kickoff specialist, Pinion is having the best season of his young career.

    Last, the 49ers are one-point favorites entering Sunday’s meeting against the Giants (1-7). Go Niners!

      1. I understood it fine. It’s just spurious silliness and fear-mongering because you want the 49ers to pointlessly carry a 3rd QB and when Shanahan shot you down, you gave some vague and unrealistic reasoning over some unrealistic hypotheticals because the real argument you’re making is “Why Grant is Right and Shanahan is Wrong.”

        But there are other people here and my just saying ‘this is idiotic fear mongering for Grant to swing his ****’ is nothing but a childish ad hominem that would, at least to anyone who is thinking about the whole situation, would rightly dismiss as pointless trolling.

        As for your point, the bottom-line is that if Beathard gets knocked out of the game by an injury, Garoppolo is almost certainly not going to get knocked out the same game. It’s very rare. So rare that the last time we had a 3rd stringer play in a game was SEVEN YEARS AGO. And that possibility of injury is a key-component of your argument. An argument that conspicuously ignores other realities of the roster and how teams have to balance things, even in ways you don’t like.

        Further, it also presupposes that Garoppolo thinks like you. That one, even a few, rough outings is going to scar him in some way. Generally speaking, athletes don’t think like that. They’re a bit delusional, and frequently in denial, at times. But they don’t think about failure or the ‘bad things that can happen’ as a routine condition. Rather, they think about what they’re going to do to their opponent and how they’re going to win.

        Anyway, what you really wrote is a piece that is characterized as a logical fallacy known as ‘an appeal to emotion.’ This fallacy has many sub-genres including appeal to consequences, appeal to fear, appeal to flattery, appeal to pity, appeal to ridicule, appeal to spite, and wishful thinking. And the best way to deal with an appeal to emotion is to not make another appeal to emotion.

        Those fallacies, btw, are holding you back as a writer. You have the talent. You do the hard work that other writers won’t do as they act as cliche’mongers and stenographers. But you’re too emotionally charged and over-the-top and prone to this particular logical fallacy and rhetorical advice.

          1. I understood your column. It was about criticizing Shanhan, just like all of your columns. It doesn’t matter how he answers the question because you will take the opposite side and criticize him. What’s your deal?

        1. “if Beathard gets knocked out of the game by an injury, Garoppolo is almost certainly not going to happen”

          That’s not what Grant is saying would happen. You’ve missed the point.

          1. So lets sign a third string quarterback and tell the rest of the team that this organization is willing to save their best players from injury so that the scrubs can do the dirty work. Yeah OK!

            1. So Garoppolo in 11 days can run more of the offense than a guy who was with them all offseason.

              If Lil Shanny doesn’t want to play Garoppolo right now then the article makes complete sense.

              I’d love to see Garoppolo on the field Sunday.

              1. What if? What if? Are you playing that game now?

                It’s pretty clear what happens if he gets hurt. Shanny said he knows enough to survive.

              2. I guess I’m missing the point of this. Freddie Solomon was the backup for one game during the Walsh era. We could send Jack Hammer out and the offense would not do worse than what we have now. Not sure I’m understanding all the hand wringing about JG playing. Whoever we send out will lose so are we we really just fretting about JG getting roughed up some? Big wheels keep on turning; Grant’s blog keeps on arguing about……anything.

              3. I just want to see the next great hope on the field Sunday. Give me something different to watch for a change.

              4. Jack,

                You want to see Garoppolo play without Staley, Garcon, Taylor, and Kittle so you can claim that he sucks.

              5. Correct Prime. Because if Garoppolo looks bad, Shanny looks bad. Everything goes back to Shanny sucks. Jack is a one trick pony.

              6. Thanks for trying to speak for me. I am looking for some entertainment. This team is bad. Real bad. Give me something new to see.

                If you are enjoying watching these games then I am happy for you. ✌🏻

              7. “If you are enjoying watching these games then I am happy for you.”

                I don’t enjoy every part. But when Foster stuffed AP and CJ scored, I enjoyed that. I’m a fan.

              8. I’m actually enjoying this rebuilding process.
                I finally believe that the 2 guys in charge and the owner are on the same page.
                Now with Jimmy G on board, things look even better!

        2. “As for your point, the bottom-line is that if Beathard gets knocked out of the game by an injury, Garoppolo is almost certainly not going to get knocked out the same game. It’s very rare. So rare that the last time we had a 3rd stringer play in a game was SEVEN YEARS AGO”

          I think the point of the article is to high light that the coaching staff does not think Garpolo is ready or they dont want him to play behind this unhealthy line. And with that line of thinking why would you put him into the game if Bethard gets hurt if Garopolo is not ready?

          Why not sign someone to a Vet min deal and let him take the beatings Garopolo is supposed to take?

          The reality is though they shouldn’t need a 3rd stringer because Garopolo should be taking over full time duty after the bye. And if he has to go in one week early for a little clean up duty it shouldn’t be a big deal.

  10. Perfect sense. They’re currently dragging bodies off the street to make an active roster. No possible way you can carry 3 QBs in that situation. Cut a healthy body? No way. Risk a practice squad waiver situation on a player you like? Why?

  11. http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/07/49ers-sign-former-vikings-defensive-back/

    “The 49ers on Tuesday signed former Vikings defensive back Antone Exum Jr. to a one-year contract and placed offensive lineman Garry Gilliam on injured reserve after suffering a knee injury Week 8 in Philadelphia.”

    He was a Hokie, so I hated him. He made a lot of plays, so I hated him even more. Now that he’s a Niner, I like him. Decent move. Much better than signing Barkley or calling up Mullens.

    1. SI,
      The Colts owner has been cursed by the football gods for thinking Luck could replace Payton Manning.
      Just like the 49ers have been cursed for leaving the legendary and holy grounds of Candlestick Park.

      The glorified Scaffold called Levi’s Stadium does not have the same atmosphere and historic feel that the old gal Candlestick had. Levi’s feels more like a business venue then a sports venue.
      This team desperately needs to start to some positive rather then negative history in this park.
      But I digress.

      This season is a lost cause. We seem to be racing with the Browns (that sounds sad in itself) for the worse record this year.
      Garappolo will get in some playing time in perhaps the last -3-4 games of the season. But for the time being Captain Courageous (CJ) will sacrifice his body. If Beathard goes down before JG is ready they will sign another pinata in the interim.

  12. Shanahan is preserving Garoppolo from injuries by not playing so he can trade him in the upcoming 2018 draft; Shanahan thinks he might be able to muster a better compensation for Garopollo than what he gave up
    to New England.

    If CJ Beathard does get hurt in the upcoming games, he can always use the 49er’s punter.

        1. CJ just needs to play decent for a future trade. As you mentioned, our OL is poor. Other teams will give CJ the benefit of the doubt, unless he is flat out horrible.

    1. Phi O’Keefe

      That is almost funny…Why would we trade Garropolo…to maybe get us another first rounder from Stanford like Solomon Thomas ? If we’re going to trade someone, let’s trade SOLOMON THOMAS…We’ve got Armstead, Buckner, Carradine, and Blair…and those are just our draftees ….!

  13. The tackles actually graded out pretty well last week, especially Brown, and Fusco at guard as well. So, what the hell happened with the other two? I saw Kilgore getting mauled pretty good.

    1. Someone replaced their cleats with roller skates…

      Seriously though, Fusco has had some bad games, but he’s not the weak link on the line. And, in fact, he’s been a pleasant surprise and is playing reasonably well. To the point I don’t see a need to replace him anytime soon.

      The real problem is Tomlinson & Kilgore, both of whom are just terrible.

  14. Wasn’t Shanahan ‘s response good enough when you asked about a 3rd QB? I thought he put you in your place pretty good. Do you seriously think you know more than the coaches? I told you before, a job at Starbucks is waiting for you.

  15. There’s gotta be someone on this roster that played QB in HS. If C.J. gets hurt, throw the guy in there and run the ball EVERY friggin play, regardless of down and distance. Either that or sign Kaep, and pass every play! Yea, that’s what they should do! Maybe rest the OLine and throw in a couple of wide receivers to block for him! ;)

    1. You have the choice between running the ball with scrub RBs you don’t mind getting killed, or grounding the ball from the shotgun. Probably better running the ball, since it milks the clock, and you want the game to be over as soon as possible with the minimum number of plays.

  16. Coffee’s for Closers® says:
    November 6, 2017 at 7:12 pm
    If you have an actual plan to not play him then shouldn’t that plan involve signing another QB so you’re not forced to play the guy you want waiting??
    ——————————
    Needless to say, I agree with you.

      1. No, I’m saying your using a logical fallacy known as ‘an appeal to emotion.’ That’s a major fail for someone who accused someone else of not understanding what he wrote.

        Really, you do this a lot. And now you’re playing the victim. Another appeal to emotion. It doesn’t mean you’re crying or have the vapors. Learn your fallacies. Learn to see them. Learn to avoid them.

        1. No, he is surmising over a very probable scenario, with wishful thinking on the Niner’s part.
          .
          Personally, I think CJB endured several concussive blows. His head bounced off the turf so many times, it reminded me of Steph Curry dribbling the ball.
          .
          More wandering. Grant is not playing the victim, and he is not appealing to emotions. It is not a logical fallacy, it is a logical possibility. What would be the result if JG has to play and gets Injured? With this team this year, since everything has gone wrong, losing CJB, the JG would not be wildly speculative, especially with the Niner O line and coaches that allow themselves to be shaped.
          .
          It is interesting to hear their excuse that they would have to cut some one, so they refuse to consider obtaining a third QB. However, they just placed Gilliam on IR, so there was a space available. They used that roster spot to obtain Exum, but a QB may be a bigger need.

          1. Oh look the janitor showed to wipe up the brown crap for Grant.
            Get serious Sebnynah. What kind of stupid name is that anyways!

        2. Oh the irony, that one so ensconced in fallacy cannot see it in his own self (nor apply such fallacies well to the assertions of others, as the person in question has a modicum of knowledge of the structure of some fallacies but not real understanding of the actual operation thereof). Note, not all arguments that fit the basic structure of a given fallacy are fallacious — they are fallacious because the premises and the conclusion lack the logical cohesion necessary for the former to supply support for the latter.

          Or put another way, the various named fallacies are just common fallacious arguments that are recurrent in human thought and discourse; they are not to be applied superficially (i.e. without critical thought) to any given assertion that fits the recognized pattern (indeed, such defeats the purpose of critical thinking before said critical thinking has even taken place). For example, the fallacy of the golden mean (which the poster at issue erroneously labeled the “fallacy of the golden middle” earlier this year) does not apply to any situation that recognizes multicausal vectors for a given occurrence or situation; rather, it applies in such cases in which the posited compromise/mean/middle point/middle ground/etc. is not supported by the premises (i.e. when the compromise is supported merely by the desire to find some golden mean rather than find a conclusion that is supported by and takes into account all the relevant premises). To apply it to any conclusion that proposes a multicausal explanation merely because said conclusion seeks what appears to be a middle between two extremes (which situation may be, in-and-of itself, an example of a binary fallacy, something to which the person in question seems predisposed) is to fallaciously apply the fallacy.

          And no, The Seb, this screed, as you would label it in your unique personal idiom, is not directed toward you, although I will just assume that up until this point you thought that it was, as your crippling narcissism and dearth of self-awareness lead you to believe that all is about yourself. You too have no ability to appreciate irony (or even know that such entombs you in the darkness of your own ignorance), but since you neither understand nor are capable of recognizing even the most superficial of logical fallacies, this post could not be about you. But you cannot help yourself, I know. To paraphrase Carly, “You’re so vain, you probably think this post is about you, don’t you? Don’t you?”

      2. Here are some of your favorites:

        Appeal to consequences (argumentum ad consequentiam): an argument that concludes a premise (usually a belief) as either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences. Example: some religious people believe that knowledge of evolution leads to immorality, therefore evolution proves false. Even if teaching evolution did lead to immorality, it would not imply a falsehood of evolution.

        This column.

        argumentum ad baculum: An argument based on an appeal to fear or a threat.

        This column.

        observational selection (similar to confirmation bias): pointing out favorable circumstances while ignoring the unfavorable. Anyone who goes to Las Vegas gambling casinos will see people winning at the tables and slots. The casino managers make sure to install bells and whistles to announce the victors, while the losers never get mentioned.

        You do this every time you grade and in much of your reporting. You were really bad about it during training camp with Hyde & Williams.

        Appeal to Authority Quoting/appealing to experts in order to sheidl your argument with the presupposition that the expert is right (they can be wrong) or that they’re an expert (they may not be).

        You do this with Bill Walsh all the time.

        I could go on. You are well into logical fallacies.

        1. Careful Moses, you’ve used your fair share of straw man arguments, ad hominem attacks, appeal to consensus and other logical fallacies too!

        2. East, I agree.
          .
          ‘Example: Some religious people believe that knowledge of evolution leads to immorality.’ Wrong. The religious people think the Bible is 5000 years old, so evolution is impossible. You are equating morality with scientific fact. Of course, the people of the Bible also thought the sun revolved around the earth and the world was flat, so that is a non starter to assume the Bible is the only truth. The only logical fallacy is believing the Bible is infallible.
          .
          Appeal to authority? You do that every time you spew out reams of facts.

              1. Seb—What makes those 5000 year old earth religious people any more illogical than evolutionists who use the 5000 year old earth theory as a “strawman” argument to prove the viability of evolution.

              2. Will, I will rely on Darwin, and his Origin Of Species Book as more definitive proof about evolution.
                .
                Did you see that they found a human skull that dated back 300,000 years? Fascinating.

              3. Fellas let me be the first to apologize for opening a forum for our smurf to squiggle through. I was having a little fun with another poster, not trying to set up a troll.

              4. “Seb—What makes those 5000 year old earth religious people any more illogical than evolutionists who use the 5000 year old earth theory as a “strawman” argument to prove the viability of evolution.”

                Umm… wow. No. Just, no. The validity of the evolutionary process, and the various (non-unified) theories as to how such process can account for development and variation of life, is in no way dependent on posting a strawman version of any popular mythology. Indeed, it is the description of biologists, zoologists, paleontologists, paleo-anthropologists, epidemiologists, and others who incorporate evolutionary principles into their understanding of life and the multitudinous variation thereof as the pejorative collective “evolutionists, and the collapsing of various theories of evolution into some purported unified belief system, that constitutes the strawman, Mein Gott! The ignorance of people today… and in the past… and for all time.

              5. Darwin showed on the Galapagos Islands that evolution doesn’t need milleniums.
                Simple math. Life expectancy 22-28 years. 1 century becomes 4. Multiply that over 5k times population for each 25 year segment. Both Darwin and the bible are plausible.

          1. Seb~

            Dont you ever get tired of lying, of purposely misleading?

            what religious people? All of them? Of course not. But you purposely don’t give the full explanation.
            The people of the Bible thought that the earth was flat…..? How the hell do you know what they were all thinking?
            You take the most ignorant thoughts of a very specific time, given what science was at that very brief moment, and basically say “see….see how F’d up they were”? And then you apply it to a book you probably never read in its entirety.
            “Appeal to authority”? How many infinite amount of times have you done that with respect to your false idol? The hypocrisy that comes from you is such, you can cut it with a butter knife.
            And this blog is, in fact, the ONLY place you can spew your B.S. and get away with it……from the safety of your room. Anywhere else and you would have to look at the person who was verbally ripping you to shreds.

          2. “Appeal to authority? You do that every time you spew out reams of facts.”

            Ah, poor the Seb. You try hard, but this is just not your forte, is it? The fallacy of appeal to authority pertains to such situations in which a conclusion is only supported by reference to a presumed authority rather than by premises that directly support the conclusion. Citing data as support for a conclusion is not, on its face, appeal to authority. No, appeal to authority rears its ugly head when a given conclusion is accepted as valid merely because it is supported by the assertion of someone deemed to be an authority rather than because of the logic of the argument.

  17. Also don’t know if this was said , but bringing a third qb is stupid They would be about the same if not less as Jimmy in a sense of knowing the offense.

    1. The object is to prevent JG from getting hurt. And at this point in a hopeless season, frankly, keeping CJ from getting beaten up senselessly. they should bring Mullens up from the PS, if they don’t think he’ll quit the team rather than start the rest of the season.

  18. If there was a plan not play him this year, totally agree with you. I have a feeling that’s not the plan they are going to play him at some point.

    1. The plan not to play him is another Grant Cohn creation. That is what Grant suggested should happen not Shanahan. All Shanahan said was he didn’t know when or if he would play. He was being ambiguous as most Coaches are when asked about things related to strategy.

      He answered Grant’s question question pretty clearly:

      “No, we feel Jimmy is about where they would be, especially with them not being with us the last few months. You’d have to cut other players to do that. And we don’t have that leeway right now just to cut a lot of other guys. Everybody’s playing a role on our team right now with the injuries we have. If you can’t IR guys, you don’t lose that spot. So, we really don’t have the room for that right now.”

      In other words: he’s not cutting somebody so they can put Garoppolo in bubble wrap for the game. He has to get through one more week with Beathard, then they prepare Garoppolo to start after the bye. Signing a 3rd QB for one week at the expense of another player is not worth it. If Garoppolo has to play on Sunday, he’ll have a small package of plays to run and the focus will be on quick drops and the running game.

    1. Next season? Hell, yes. This season? It’s already over, so why subject any QB you plan to play next year to a beating and possible career-ending injury?

    2. Fusco has been getting better and is playing well now. Kilgore and Tomlinson remain horrible. But Fusco is getting better.

      1. California Dreaming about Fusco!!!! BTW, who are the individuals doing the grading for PFF? If the same people are not grading the same players each week, how can there be any consistency to the grades assigned? After all, grading is not based on true/false or multiple choice questions. Grades require subjective observations and individual judgement. And who is to say the graders at PFF really have any comprehension of what are the player’s offensive, blocking or defensive line or coverage responsibilities?

            1. Close to stats as you are gonna get. My point is football is very subjective. Too many other factors interrelated to come to an objective analysis.

  19. Jimmy G should play when Staley is healthy and when he knows the play book.
    In saying that, Shanahan needs to play call a lot more strategic to help his line and QB.

    1. True. 51 pass attempts for CJ Beathard is nothing more than child abuse. The poor kid took a beating. I tend to agree with Grant on this article. KS already said he did not bring in Garoppolo to save this season. He brought him in to make the organization better. It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to put your future franchise QB through the kind of beating Beathard is enduring. And for what? No chance at playoffs. Risking injury behind this porous o-line is absurd. Isn’t Nick Mullens still on the practice squad? If so, promote him to the active roster.

      1. Beating? Come on Houston. A lot of those hits taken are because CJB has been slow to get the ball out. Jimmy G wont need much time and I think Shanny has to do a better job of play calling for both guys.
        But this notion of saving Jimmy G, that’s crazy.

        You buy a Ferrari, you drive the sh&t out of it, you don’t out a blanket over it and wait till the time is right.

  20. Another factor in the play calling could be that both HBs have been banged up. KS might be the only HC to ever get a full season from Hyde.

  21. Question for the forum – if CJ does get hurt against the Giants, and JG went in, how much of the playbook do you think Shanahan would have available based on how much JG would know?

    I’m thinking it would be pretty limited, but not so limited as to be non-functional. But I really don’t know how quick a learner JG is and how much he may have been able to grasp by this weekend.

    1. I would think he knows a lot. He’s ran the scout team offense for the Pats for 4 years.
      Now the consensus is Shannys system is complex so I guess now it’s how well can Shanny and his staff teach it and how quick Jimmy G can grasp it.

    2. He’ll be limited but not dysfunctional. My guess is the Coaching staff are focusing on a small number of plays that he can execute confidently if he has to play.

    3. Functionally? Zero, for all intents and purposes. JG needs OTAs and a full training camp before he’ll have enough knowledge and rapport with his teammates to even begin playing as an effective QB in a Shanahan offense. Heck, it took Ryan two years to get to that point, and his skills and intelligence may be better than JG’s.

    4. He’s got some plays on his wrist. On Sunday, he will have had 11 days to learn, so I think he’ll have a number of plays that he feels comfortable with. The thing is though, he has to learn the verbage too.

    5. It would be extremely limited.
      The biggest issue is the language… Kyle has a lot of verbage in his system while the Pats have an abbreviated language.

  22. “Shanahan also doesn’t want to play Garoppolo because the offensive line can’t protect him. If he goes in the game and gets hammered, he may choose not to re-sign long term with the 49ers. Playing him now could kill contract negotiations and ruin any good faith the Niners have with Garoppolo and his agent, Don Yee.

    I get all that.” Grant Cohen.

    Grant might get it but it’s not what Lynch or Shanahan is thinking.

    Nothing like putting words into somebody else’s mouth and slagging them for saying them. Yellow journalism.

  23. http://www.knbr.com/2017/11/07/the-ups-and-downs-of-kyle-shanahan-so-far-this-season/

    “When his players were erupting in frustration during the Cowboys’ blowout, Shanahan used his Monday meeting to address composure. He told them that character comes through during adversity and that not everyone can handle the rigors of the NFL”

    “His players seemed to listen, and the 49ers haven’t had a problem since with yelling on the sidelines and players firing helmets like Justin Verlander fastballs.”

    “THE TEAM PLAYS HARD: Turn on the tape of the Browns’ defense in particular, and there, right before you, will be professionals not playing hard. Not true with the 49ers. In fact, two games in a row, they’ve had their starting free safeties break their arms while making tackles. While the 49ers might not be talented, their effort is high.”

    “Shanahan’s talent is obvious, and like the rest of his team, he’s likely to improve with more experience.”

      1. Considering how much and often they’ve ripped the 49ers and the Yorks over time I’m wondering how you came to that conclusion. They have shown, by their incessant criticism when things are not going right, they don’t have any issue ripping. And rip they do.

  24. One problem Shanny has it’s that it’s not just JG transitioning from a numeric system to the verbiage system, and what plays he can be expected to run, but with the limitations of the OL Shanny hasn’t got a full repertoire to choose from that he can offer to JG.
    He’s all Rube Goldberg on offensive and defensive rosters and game plans.
    Think USS Yorktown after Battle of the Coral Sea.

  25. http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Team-Comparison-Previewing-49ers-vs-Giants/1af76eea-5884-4c98-9c16-734abd9694a9

    “Carlos Hyde’s 762 yards from scrimmage on the season (494 rushing & 268 receiving) ranks seventh in the NFL and third in the NFC.”

    Remember when Grant said we couldn’t sustain long drives?

    “San Francisco leads the NFL this season with 19 drives that have gone 10 or more plays. The team’s six touchdowns on 10-play drives is tied for third in the NFL. (Dal. – 9; GB – 7; Den. – 6; Hou. – 6).”

      1. OK, not what I was talking about though. Grant said Hyde would be cut or traded, he wasn’t and is having a decent season. Earlier in the season Grant was going on about how KS should be throwing more deep balls because they can’t sustain long drives, that was wrong too.

          1. The challenge with this long drive argument is that it doesn’t matter. What matters is time of possession. Currently, the team is ranked 32nd and has a worse time of possession than last year, if that is any indicaticator. It may not be by much than last year, but everyone here was very much bellyaching about how that put the defense in a terrible position every game. The truth is the defense has done a yeoman’s job keeping the team somewhat competitive even while having its back up against the the wall. Perspective.

        1. “they can’t sustain long drives, that was wrong too.”

          You do realize that it’s taken SF 108 drives to get to those 6 right? That’s 5.6% of their possessions.

          Compared to:

          9 on 84 for Dallas 10.7%
          7 on 81 for GB 11.6%
          6 on 96 for Den 6.3%
          6 on 99 for Hou 6.1%

          That’s not really all that impressive for a 49ers team that has the most possessions in the NFL yet rank only 30th in points per game.

            1. 19 long drives yet 30th in points scored and last in touchdowns scored.

              Who cares if Grant said they can’t sustain drives?

              Sure they’ve done it 19 times. Yay!

              They still aren’t scoring points. You know, those pesky things that win or lose games.

              1. Again, OK, not what I was talking about though. Earlier in the season Grant was going on about how KS should be throwing more deep balls because they can’t sustain long drives, that was wrong too.

              2. Are you really so bored that you need to try and find things to show that Grant was wrong about something that he said earlier in the year?

                And who gives a rats @ss anyway? So they have 19 drives of 10 plays or more. That’s awesome!

                They are still not scoring points. They are still last in the league in time of possession per drive. They suck, but woohoo Grant should suck it. lol

              3. 80, Grant said that Hyde did not fit the KS scheme, so they should trade him because Joe Williams is a better fit.
                .
                Considering Bowman was cut, it was not out of the realm of possibilities that Hyde might be cut, However, trading him away would have been the better option, so they would get something for him, rather than cutting him and getting nothing. Still, I kinda like 100 yard rushers, so they should keep Hyde and try to sign him to a long term contract.
                .
                Grant advocated cutting Bowman, so he was prescient when he did get cut. However, his 9-7 prediction did not pan out, so he is not infallible. Grant did go on about throwing deep at least once a game, instead of never. Last game, they did complete a long bomb, so that strategy seems to be a good one to follow.

              4. Jack,

                Grant asks for it by acting like he knows better than a NFL HC.

                seb,

                Bow basically cut himself with his attitude.

                His call for deep passes was based on his belief that we couldn’t sustain long drives.

              5. “And who gives a rats @ss anyway? So they have 19 drives of 10 plays or more. That’s awesome!”

                Pretty sure the D appreciates the rest, especially since the D is on the field for the majority of the game. It also can flip field position.

              6. 80. Bill Walsh let go players who could still play, but he had a replacement installed before making that move. Brock Coyle is not better than Bowman. Bowman provided veteran leadership, and eventually said he would accept his diminished role, but the Niners essentially cut him on the team bus.

              7. seb,

                Requesting a trade sets a bad example for the rest of the team. Bow was unhappy because he was getting less snaps. He admitted he wasn’t ready for the Rams because of his injury. so reducing his snap count to keep him fresh was the right call.

              8. 80, Niners could have been more diplomatic, especially considering Bowman was one of the last players to play in that SB, and he provided veteran leadership.
                .
                Bowman knew the Niner MO. He saw how they treated JH, Kaep, JT and Chip. That type of behavior does not engender team loyalty.
                .
                It sure was a wakeup call to the rest of the team, and the defense responded by giving up 265 rushing yards the next game, while with 3 days of study, Bowman got the green dot to call the defensive plays, and made 11 tackles.

              9. “Pretty sure the D appreciates the rest”

                Considering how they’re near the top of the league in plays against I’m sure they do. I’m also pretty sure they’d like for the offense to score some points as well.

  26. Shanny taking a calculated risk. If CJ goes down and throws in Jimmy and it could likely get ugly. The trade could then unravel leaving the 49ers with nothing to show for a second round pick or forced to franchise tag him either exclusive or non exclusive if they chose to hedge their traded pick. Of course if the gamble is a winner and he goes out and performs well with a healthier line, I would think both parties would come to a long term player agreement.

  27. Bee-rows makes a lot of sense:

    Michael Edge‏ @_Michael_Edge_ We can’t seriously be thinking of playing @JimmyG_10 behind that offensive line, can we?

    ANSW: He’s an NFL quarterback, not a Faberge egg. He was brought here to help make a crappy team better. At some point he’s got to be part of that crappy team. I agree that you can’t put him in until he has a good understanding of the offense.

    But I still think that Nov. 26 — a week after the bye — is the appropriate date. The Colts acquired Jacoby Brissett on Sept. 2 and he was starting on Sept. 17. The 49ers acquired Garoppolo on Oct. 30. A late November debut means he would have double the preparation time Brissett needed and a week longer than the duration of an NFL training camp.

    Something to keep in mind: No, the 49ers offensive line has not been good. But C.J. Beathard is getting sacked at a higher rate than Brian Hoyer. Which suggests that he’s partly responsible for his big hit count. That’s not a slam on Beathard. You expect a rookie to hold onto the ball too long, to go through his progressions a beat too slowly. Rather, it’s meant to suggest that Garoppolo may not necessarily be in for the same pounding Beathard has received.

    Faces the facts, including the inconvenient ones, and structures an argument. Not fear mongering. Not pretending Garoppolo is so emotionally weak that getting sacked is going to make him run for the exits. Not pretending the Franchise Tag doesn’t exist and Garoppolo is stuck being a 49er unless the 49ers let him walk or trade him sometimme in the next couple of years.

    And Bee-rows supports it later on, with context via a different question:

    Perry (49ers 0-8 )‏ @ItsAnthony_Breh Whether as a backup or a starter, has CJ Beathard proved he deserves a spot on the roster?

    ANSW: Yes. Absolutely. To borrow a phrase from Kyle Shanahan, ‘by no means has Beathard been perfect.’ For example, he goes through his progressions too slowly and holds onto the football too long, both of which have been significant contributors to the number of times he’s been hit. But he’s displayed the one characteristic — pocket courage — Shanahan holds most dear and it would be a big surprise if he didn’t pick up his pace and become more savvy with time. … Also, there appears to be a one-week lag on your Twitter avatar handle.

    And lets face it, most pocket-passing rookies struggle in their first year. Look at Peyton Manning in his first year: 56.7% 3,739 yards 6.50YPA 26 TDs 28 INTs 71.2 QB rating. And we can go on, QB after QB. Favre was so bad he was traded. Steve Young was so bad he was traded. Other great QBs were awful starting out and got benched or called busts before they finally bloomed. It takes time to know, not three games.

    But back to my point — thinking things through instead of making emotionally charged claims can be done. You just marshall the facts and data supporting your logical, structured answer instead of ‘Shanahan sucks, Beathard sucks, I’m right!!!! So I’ll write a logical fallacy filled column proving it!!!!’

  28. Shanny. Gotta love it. Won’t risk a field goal 31 seconds before half time when his 0 -8 team is down 14-3 and on the 38 yard line but has no problem risking his QB of the future if CJ goes down. Yea, genius I say, pure arrogance genius.

    1. Actually he explained it. The only arrogance I see is out of you. You miss the FG, the ball goes to the spot of the kick. Get 15 yards and the Cards are in FG range. Or maybe they go with a few big pass plays and get a TD against a depleted secondary (Johnson out with a shoulder and Tartt out with a broken arm).

      Considering the defensive struggles and injuries during the game, there was a very good chance a missed FG would have lead to points for the Cards.

      Not that you and the rest of geniuses who criticize the move could think it through…

  29. I found this interesting with regards to Kirk Cousin’s play in the Seattle game this past Sunday. Bear in mind that Washington has four new starters on the OL, three of which were signed at the end of October and that the game was played at the CLink.

    “On the other side of the ball, Seattle did a pretty great job of pressuring Washington quarterback Kirk Cousins, putting him under duress on 41% of his dropbacks. Unfortunately, that was not a problem for Cousins and the Washington offense: He was 7-of-9 in those situations for 100 yards and a rating of 113. When targeting Richard Sherman, Shaquill Griffin, and Justin Coleman, Cousins was 9-of-11 for 153 yards and a rating of 118.8.”

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/11/5/16611234/pff-stats-in-seahawks-loss-russell-wilson-kirk-cousins-have-opposite-results-under-pressure

  30. What is really disheartening here is that Big Shanny is supposedly helping little Shanny and neither can inteligibly figure out how to run a successful offense.
    So many clammered for Shanny. So many clammered for Jackson. So many clammered Adam Gase. Truth is none of us are any good at accessing talent at the HC position. Not one of those prospects is successful.

    1. I wanted McVay. But I fully admit that every HC hire is random to success or failure and nobody knows. So when all the people start on the stupid parade of how they ‘know/knew’ and start patting themselves on the back, I find it laughable.

    1. OWU? Do you mean Kaep? Looks like the Texans would rather lose than sign a SB QB.
      .
      The feeling might be mutual. Kaep may not want to go play for McNair, after his inmates running the prison Freudian Slip.

      1. Maybe the Texans don’t want to tank and that’s why they won’t sign the one trick pony

        Just face it Sebnynah( stupid name btw), Kap is not a good option anymore!

          1. Or maybe just maybe, no one wants a cancer in their dressing room?

            Ask Jay Ajayi why he was traded to the Eagles. In this league it does matter how good you are. If you are a bad teammate, you will not be in the league for very long or shipped out.

            And Sebnynah(dumbest name ever), spare me the Len Ashmont award campaign.

      2. Darwin showed on the Galapagos Islands that evolution doesn’t need milleniums.
        Simple math. Life expectancy 22-28 years. 1 century becomes 4. Multiply that over 5k times population for each 25 year segment. Both Darwin and the bible are plausible.

        1. the bible are plausible.

          Only if you discount the evidence presented from other disciplines – astronomy, cosmology, geology, chemistry, biology, etc.

  31. Houston wants to win. That’s why OWU didn’t get a call. Quests to win the SB don’t gel with a QB who was 1-10 last year, including 9 loses in a row, and an awe inspiring 3-16 in his last 19 starts. Quests to win the SB don’t gel with a player who will create division in the locker room, at home and in the stands, and nobody really cares what any player did 5 years ago. It’s ancient history. Facts are indeed a biatch Seb. Excuses on the other hand are amusing.

    1. Ancient history? JJ has not played in a game since 2013, so the Texans are desperate. Hope they lose the rest of their games.

      1. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/11/nfl-texans-colin-kaepernick-josh-johnson-bill-obrien

        “When asked this week if the Texans were considering Colin Kaepernick as a replacement for the injured Deshaun Watson, Bill O’Brien said that while the former 49ers quarterback is a “good football player,” he “hasn’t played football in a while.”

        “New Texans backup QB Josh Johnson has not attempted a pass since Dec. 11, 2011.”

        ” Packers coach Mike McCarthy berated a reporter who dared to ask about Kaepernick, saying he was happy with his quarterbacks, before pursuing Brian Hoyer a week later.”

  32. I gotta laugh. Grant caught KS with his hypocrisy. First KS states that JG is not playing because he does not know the playbook, then asserts that JG is ready to replace CJB if he gets more injured. Since the playbook is too complicated, maybe KS should simplify it. JG is smart, and just came from a SB team, so maybe KS should look at what JG can do and how he can lead a team.
    .
    People say the Niners are afraid that JG may become injured if they allow him to play because of that putrid O line. However, KS called for only 17 running plays so CJB was beaten like a drum while throwing 52 times. It sure seemed like KS was playing checkers while Arians was playing chess.
    .
    Since the Niners are not trying to win, maybe they should franchise tag JG so they can reap a 2 first round pick compensation for him. They are probably terrified that JG may play, and get injured, so they would lose 2 first round picks. If that is the case, they should just shelve JG, and garner those picks from a team with SB aspirations.
    .
    The Niners need to sign a FA QB. I had to laugh when Grant avoided the elephant in the room, and mentioned Barkley. Guess he thinks Barkley is better than Kaep, just like KS thought Hoyer was better than Kaep. Just like the Texans think a QB who has not played for 4 years is better than Kaep.
    .
    The blackballing continues, and those QBs are more proof. I hope Kaep, when finally given a chance, will take the league by storm again, and make all his detractors look clueless. They are terrified to let him play, because their football acumen will be questioned for letting emotions dictate their actions.

    1. Teams would blitz Mullens just as much as CJ. If you’re worried about CJ getting hurt, you should be equally worried that Mullens would get hurt.

    2. Those are not mutually exclusive positions. But, clearly, you’re not capable of seeing it. Just like Grant.

      In a game where Beathard went down, he’d come in with his wrist ban and run a limited repertoire of plays in vanilla offense. That’s not enough to start, but it’s enough to be the back-up.

      I mean, it’s so obviously ‘duh’ I don’t know how a genius like you missed it.

    1. This is Niner blog, with all due respect……Kaep ain’t coming back and neither is Alex. Funny, nobody was missing Alex until we lost in the Superbowl. Obviously we came up short vs a legendary def on 1st and goal, that play blown dead was perfect call and Kaep walks in…..but until that point we played one of the best 2nd halves ever. Nobody came even close to balling like that vs Bal that season….1 half of football produced more excitement than the previous decade combined, yet all I read is bashing of that era…. while u bums swing from Shannys vine. Are you really Niner fans? Am I missing a hidden agenda? Wth are you guys seeing that I’m not? All hail Coach Ofer!

      1. 1 half of football produced more excitement than the previous decade combined

        Nah, the last 5 minutes of the playoff game against the Saints the previous year produced more excitement than the previous decade combined, and the 2 seasons after.

        Strange, you are talking about players long gone, yet you rhapsodize about an era long gone too. And yes, we are really Niners fans. And what we fans are seeing is that they are rebuilding a team from the ground up. And like him or not (or like Grant, think you have more football smarts than him), Shanny is the guy that’s leading that rebuild effort.

        1. Rib, it might not look like it today, but I think Kyle Shanahan is still the best off-season move we have made.
          The second was getting Jimmy G!

        2. +1 rib. Especially this part.

          “Nah, the last 5 minutes of the playoff game against the Saints the previous year produced more excitement than the previous decade combined, and the 2 seasons after.”

          That’s one of my all time favorite games.

  33. Hey Grant, I know a guy….he’s dabn up there in the corner.

    So amusing how many tough guys are on here, attacking anyone who thinks the team is headed the wrong direction. The York’s should send you clowns a xmas card.
    Anyone catch our kicker pleading with KS for a chance to kick a makeable FG as the smug one is calling for the punt team. Every move they make reeks of tankn, I’ll never support such an act. And yall think protests are disrespectful…..but taking a dive isn’t?

    Just do I understand correctly, they traded a 2nd rd pick for an unsigned and unproven commodity, then sit him around for half the games you have him…and you idiots parade around toutn KS as a genius, proclaiming our qb of the future is finally here.

    Who should we draft with first pick since JG is here? Idiots.

    It’s counterproductive for our team to win a game possibly hurting our pick…..Idiots.

    He inherited the worst roster in NfL, news flash we didn’t have the worst record last year nor did we start worse than any other Niner squad EVER….YOU IDIOTS!

    No OC? Idiots.

    Brooks, Kerley, Gabbert, Kaep, T.Smith, Wilhoite and Navorro frign Bowman all vets cut that left our depth and vet leadership decimated. And all prob starters, other than Gabs who is better than anyone to throw a pass in red and gold this year…….Idiots!

    Watching my squad on Sunday is like getting kicked in the gnads by primes mother repeatedly, I’ll keep watching though and keep wearing my niner gear to work Monday, and darn near every other day of the week…..like a true faithful. I take far more crap here anyways amongst supposedly fellow faithful, u suck boys are exactly the kind of real fan the Yorks adore…..Idiots.

    Kudos to you Grant for holding these imposters accountable, another weak af coaching staff. And please pardon my French, tired of reading your blog comments from the real fans….but I’ll be here though, to get my daily reminder of the greatness that is Shanny and his followers. Coach Ofer and counting…….on fire tonight, yeee!

    1. Torrey Smith 15 receptions, 221 YDs, 1 TD
      Ahmad Brooks 1 sack, 1 assist, 5 tackles
      Jeremy Kerley 22 receptions, 217 YDs, 1 TD
      Gabbert, really?
      Kaep, has been benched for Gabbert twice
      Wilhoite 7 tackles, 3 assists
      Bowman, asked for a trade

      Idiot

      1. ALL would be starters on this current roster my friend. Gabs included. Bow wanted out because he realized KS is a joke and wanted to be on a relevant team that’s actually concerned with W and L this year, not 3 years from now. Only stat you should be referencing is 0-9 sir.
        We are all idiots as far KS and York are concerned…….

        1. Brooks was already 2nd string, that’s why he was let go.
          Kerley would still be suspended for PEDs.
          Goodwin has better numbers than Torrey.
          Wilhoite is about the same as Coyle, but neither are as good as Malcom Smith who got injured.
          Gabbert is 3rd string behind Stanton.
          Kap was never an option on this team.

          Bow, yeah he’s way better than Coyle, but his replacement at MIKE just had 14 tackles. Bow’s season high with us was 11. Still, I wish we could have kept Bow. But if we would have kept him, what would have happened? Would Reid, Armstong, Hyde, and Robinson have publicly complained and asked for a trade when they got less reps?

    2. @ dReed209. Exactly. And let’s not forget KS claiming ignorance or at least being unaware of not knowing how many passes were called vs running plays? WTH? Dude, YOU are calling the plays.

        1. MosesZD – You are so wrong!!!!!! Obviously, you are the one without the PhD. Any competent offensive play caller knows exactly the mixture of run to pass, and, furthermore, has a guy up in the press box charting plays called; tracking touches, etc. as well as logging in-game defensive tendencies by down and distance as well as field position.

          1. This makes sense, Mike. I’ve asked a number of times, but I really wish Grant would ask KS about the guys up in the booth who are assisting him, if anyone is.

  34. Devil and the deep blue sea…

    Question: Why would KS play Garoppolo at any point in the remainder of this season?

    Answers that I can think of:

    1. To try and be competitive? For what reason? There is nothing to compete for any more in terms of play-offs that hope ended a long time ago.

    2. To make an evaluation of the QB (and offense) in advance of next season? I cant see that any coach would have a snowball’s chance of any kind of objective assessment of QB play behind the current O-line and with such significant gaps in the receivers/TEs positions. And if all JG is going to do is hand the ball off to Hyde then (a) Hyde is going to take a beating and he’s not the toughest RB in the world (b) JG is going to get a bit fed up “playing” for a team that isn’t really letting him play.

    3. To give JG an opportunity to lead a team for a change? If that’s what JG wants, if that’s why he was traded, because he was fed-up of playing second chair to Brady all the time, then its not going to help contract negotiations any to bring in a QB and then stash him on the bench for the rest of the season.

    4. To keep the fans happy? Something to be cheery about for the next few games? Maybe to get a W at last? I doubt KS really cares about that… he is here for the long game, he probably fully expected to have a tough first season with the roster he knew he was going to inherit. A win would be nice, but I doubt he will want that at the expense of potentially scuppering next season and beyond, he’s not that short-sighted. (Jed, on the other hand….)

    For me, the only real reason to play JG at this point in time is to keep him happy, which they need to do if they believe he is the future of the franchise. This seems like a very risky move, but they have put themselves in that position and only have themselves to blame. Getting a 3rd QB isn’t a solution. Playing Beathard for the rest of the season isn’t a solution. They’re pretty much stuck with the O-line they have now at this stage, cant do much about that.

    Like I say… devil and the deep blue sea. Maybe KS can work some of his QB-whispering magic and convince JG to see the longer-term, bigger-picture in the way that he and Lynch obviously do, and to just be patient as he’ll get his chance eventually, hopefully when he has some weapons back and a modicum of protection. But if that doesn’t work, I think they have to play him, and hope that he comes out the other end in one piece and with his enthusiasm for the team still in tact.

    1. You people keep forgetting that Garoppolo has no realistic choice as the Franchise tag forces him to remain. And if he wants a big payday down the road, he’s got to perform well for the 49ers so that means no temper-tantrums, holding-out, tanking, etc.

      1. forces him to remain

        You can’t engender a trusting and productive relationship between ‘star’ player and team/coaches/fans/front office by forcing someone to play for your team. It doesn’t bode well for a long-term rebuild.

        1. Brit, I totally agree. JG was benched for a future hall of famer.
          .
          Now he is being benched behind CJB?
          .
          JG wants to play, but KS thinks he is not smart enough to run a team. KS is terrified that JG will get hurt, and with good reason, behind that putrid O line.
          .
          JG will get way better offers from teams that have talent, but only lack a QB, teams unlike the Niners who have no chance at the playoffs for years. The best thing is to franchise him, and get those 2 first round compensatory picks for JG.
          .
          Sure, some say JG should not play against the Giants, but this game is their best chance to win. KS does not think JG can do that, but he will blithely say that JG can play against that stout Seahawk defense, which makes no sense, since the Niners have not defeated the Seahawks for years.
          .
          No wonder JG was reticent at the PC. JG is smart.

  35. ESPN doing mid-season rookie WR report:

    Rookie receiving MVP: JuJu Smith-Schuster, Pittsburgh. He started off slowly, but at the midway point, he looks like the breakout star of the class. He is tied for second among rookies in catches, leads in yards by 54 and has the most touchdown catches. He has been extremely impressive as the season has progressed, just edging Los Angeles Rams receiver Cooper Kupp. Those two are the early stars of the class.

    Biggest surprise: Trent Taylor, San Francisco. The Louisiana Tech receiver was a fifth-round pick after posting two 1,000-yard collegiate seasons. He earned a chance early because of the Niners’ shaky receiving corps, and while he hasn’t been a big-time playmaker, he has been a contributor. His 24 catches are tied for second among rookies and his 204 yards are third.

    Meanwhile many of the big names fans were demanding and projecting into dominance…:

    John Ross, Cincinnati (YTD stats: 1 carry, 12 yards; 0 receptions, 0 yards, 1 target, 6 routes): Ross was a healthy scratch this week for the Bengals, as his disappointing rookie season continues.

    Mike Williams, Los Angeles Chargers (YTD stats: 2 rec., 22 yards, 5 targets, 25 routes): The Chargers were off this week.

    1. Moses ZD – You cannot discount the injuries for Ross and Williams just like you cannot ignore the fact of multiple injuries for Foster and now Thomas out with a knee.

      if you are down playing contributions from Ross and Williams and intimating them as disappointments then, too, so are Foster and Thomas,

  36. If Beathard goes down for more than 1 game Jimmy G. mops up the rest of that game handing it off 90% of the time. Then they put Beathard on IR and pick up another QB. Pretty simple.

        1. Kaep will play, and I hope he leads his team to the playoffs.
          .
          Obviously, he has been stabbed in the back too many times here, but if Jed could apologize, and show contrition by getting rid of the leaker like he said he would do, maybe Kaep could return and help salvage this season.
          .
          The problem with you, Prime, is that this team is 0-9 without Kaep, so you like losing. I guess being a loser is all you are. You continue to spew insults and expletives, that is another loser strategy.

          1. More OCD from Seb……….

            U see that, Prime? He’s been using the same words for years, literally.
            A text book case for any Psych student………….and the answers to the problem of Sebninny will be found in Vienna, in the writings of Freud.

  37. So what are everyone’s aspirations for next year? Prime chimes in with why I think are unreasonable 8-8 expectations. I would think anything less than 4-12 is unacceptable (though I have to be honest, at his point I could see that likely).

    This team has a lot of holes and as many of you have rightly pointed out they are not going to be filled in one season but the way they are drafting and going through FA it may take many seasons.

    Let’s examine the players brought in:
    Brian Hoyer – brought in because he knew the system and had worked previously with Shanahan. Unmitigated disappointment. Cut. Now with NE.

    Matt Barkley – didn’t even make the 53.

    Elvis Dumervil – 3.5 sacks, 6 tackles. Not tremendous work but not terrible either.

    Will Davis – released early September

    Tim Barnes – cut

    Brandon Fusco – he actually made the team and is contributing. He had a good game but his play has been up and down.

    Kapri Bibbs – traded for this jem who was cut.

    Garry Gilliam- on IR

    Jayson DiManche – waived from IR

    Tim Hightower – cut

    Dekoda Watson- on team though who would notice

    Chris Jones – IR

    Jeremy Zuttah- we traded for the ability to cut him and bring back Killgore! Wow!

    Aldrick Robinson – he came from that great Atlanta offense remember? Oh, well!

    Don Jones – IR

    Brock Coyle – cricket, cricket

    Pierre Garçon – I have nothing but respect for him. Always have. Great number 2. Not a number 1. Best receiver we’ve had since Boldin though.

    Marquise Goodwin- fast and elusive but not a very good pass catcher.

    Logan Paulson – despite Grant Cohns pronouncements at the start of the season he has been a bit player and he is off and on judging by how often he has been on the team.

    Kyle Jzylayenxuetanayn or whatever – to say this “offensive weapon” has been underwhelming is an understatement. He has been the most over payed and overrated player on the team. This has made the acquisition of the other Juice look good by comparison.

    Robbie Gould – finally Lynch hits a home run!

    Malcolm Smith – Baalke got players who everyone knew had injuries and got them cheap. We seem to overpay for them and then get them injured. Not sure which is better.

    Carl Bradford – ?

    Earl Mitchell – has done a decent job in the middle

    DeAndre Carter – PS

    K’wan Williams – decent, not great

    Trent Taylor – as Moses pointed out is not having a bad season, but this is more out of necessity than out of talent. He is slow and has had his fair share of mistakes and drops.

    George Kittle – looks like V Mac 2.0 out there.

    CJB – actually like the kid. Tough, has moxie. Hard to evaluate as he is a punching bag. His coach isn’t doing him any favors and I think his OL may hate him.

    Victor Boldin Jr. – maybe he’s fast but he needs to show it at some point.

    Solomon Thomas – tweener, redundant, can’t rush from the outside, and now hurt.

    Reuben Foster- talented and brittle

    Ahkello Witherspoon – played a decent game. Can he do more than one?

    Kendrick Bourne – who knows

    Matt Breida – everyone’s early darling but has faded late because of so many mistakes. Also has trouble gaining yards, something RBs are supposed to actually do

    Adrien Colbert- another darling who everyone likes until they will actually see his work on the field.

    Leger Douzable- a late addition brought in as a stop gap who has done pretty decent considering all things. Lucky break.

    Jimmy Garoppolo – aka the next Montana. That is until he actually starts playing. Then we will see what he actually is. Somehow I think he will be just another quarterback.

    DJ Jones – a very decent draft choice which may turn out to be a very good one.

    Raheem Mostreet – not done much of anything

    Pita Taumoepenu – he and Kittle have made Celek look good

    There are others who have no contributions as well, but that is some pretty poor talent evaluation. And some of these guys were hand picked. If this is the level of work that is going to bring the franchise back. Hold on to your britches guys. It is going to be one very scary ride. Be sure to hold on to the blame Baalke card for as long as you can though.

    1. Dude, you need to chill on this. Its a rebuild, its gonna take time. Complaining every day about it when its only been 9 games, one offseason makes you look incompetent.
      Give it time.

      1. If you noticed I asked about next year. And you may want to look up incompetent because I’m pretty sure you are using it out of context.

        And weren’t you the one who was talking about how JG was going to save the franchise? Who is being premature?

        1. I never said save the franchise, I said he is the QB of the future and a great move to help move along this rebuild which I also said would take 2-3 more years.

          Getting a legit QB is a huge win for the team. No one wants to say that because we have not seen him play. I’m confident in saying, he will be a corner stone for this franchise for a long time.

          I usually respect your comments and posts but lately all you are doing is complaining about what we don’t have. And then for the players we do have, you have nothing but criticism for them. Yeah, its a bad team and you don’t go from 2 wins to 9 wins in one offseason. All those guys you trashed are going to be better with better talent around them. That’s football.

          All I’ve ever said is when an organization has not drafted well in 5 years, it takes a long time to re-establish competitive talent. That’s why I say, chill on being critical this year, its gonna take time.

          1. Prime,

            I think you need to read what I wrote to Cubus. I acknowledge that some of our draft choices have been subpar. But they have not been all bad. We do have some good players. I have said this for some time. Even still, the way forward is not to lose time and we needed to really have a great draft and it’s looking more and more like it was merely ok. That will not suffice. If you notice we brought in over 40 players and a vast majority of them were junk. A few have worked out and a few others show promise. This is about the same ratio the drafts which isn’t very good if we are seeking to rebuild a championship team.

    2. Thanks for putting the time in for this East. Taylor only has 1 drop though compared to 5 for Kittle. The issue with Taylor is his 8.5 yards per catch. He’s a nice underneath guy, but he’s not going to make anyone worry about the deep ball.

    3. QB – Should we have threw money at Glennon or traded for Oweiler? No, we needed a bridge to the QB of the future, hopefully Jimmy is that guy. Other bridge options were Cutler and Schaub.

      The IR bunch is unfortunate, but it’s a part of the game.

      Bibbs and Zuttah. Agreed, those were bad moves.

      Coyle, Bourne, Boldin, and Watson contribute on STs, somebody has to.

      It’s not too soon to judge the draft, but it’s too soon for a final verdict.

  38. GREAT analysis East. Thank you. I think it’s too early to even talk about next years possible record, but of course that’s why we’re here so in my HO I’d say prospects for an 0-16 season this year are good, though they could pull a rabbit out of the hat and win one or two, so 4-6 wins next year is a reasonable goal in my view.

    1. Juan, the prospects for a win dim every day as players get hurt and the team goes deeper into “evaluation” mode.

      I have started to evaluate next year since it looks like this year is a wash (the JG trade just about confirmed it). I have looked at the various moves of the team and there have been many. Some were decent, but none were spectacular. Perhaps with time this will change, but at the outset things aren’t looking very good.

      What I find ironic is that just like back in the just before Walsh days there was a Juice acquisition that didn’t work out.

  39. Only one team in the history of the NFL has gone 0-16 and that was the 2008 Detroit Lions. No team wants that ignominy hanging over their mantel, so if they get close, I think they’ll pull out all the stops to get at least one win (which includes playing Jimmy G; although I still think he’ll play earlier than that).

    1. Cubus, what makes you think that JG is the Magic win man? Doesn’t he need receivers? An OL? Field Position? Or is there a magic elixir I’m not aware of that will transform JG into something else?

      I know there are those out there that believe a certain QB can come in and manufacture wins because he attended a SB in the past and had some success but they ignore current reality. Are the rest of the fans falling into the same delusions?

      1. Didn’t say JG was the magic man. Just that they’ll throw everything they have at trying to win one game. Of course, they might not succeed.

        The Giants game might be the best chance to do that. If CJB plays poorly, I’m beginning to think we might see JG come in – but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll win.

        1. Funny how he chimes in. It’s like clockwork. Wasn’t accusing you of that. Just think that many believe that insert JG and poof! Win! It’s a little harder with the guitar!

            1. Cubus, I wasn’t attacking you. Sorry if you thought I was mate. My apologies. I merely was pointing out a bit too emphatically the exuberance that folks show for JG’s abilities after 1.5 games. Sorry if I came across too strong.

              I meant the other one chiming in btw not you. Should have been more clear. Sorry about that.

              1. And by other you have to scroll up and see another part of the blog but u will see what I mean, or you can scroll to the door of the blog. It’s all there.

              2. No problems. For what it’s worth, I agree with UC that it’s always a good idea to have people “keep it real”. The performance hasn’t been there and it is disappointing. But, imo, there is a reason for optimism. I think for a rookie GM, JL is doing a great job. He realized his limitations and brought in Peters and Mayhew. His personal charisma, straightforwardness and honest nature will get him in the door with other GMs (and I think free agents), which Baalke could never do. While I think KS is a very good offensive mind, the jury is still out on him as a HC. You might be right about the “yes” men around him, which is something I’ve always been vehemently opposed to. It only breeds complacency and losing touch with the reality of a situation. We have to be patient and this offseason will be critical.

              3. I think the jury is out on both of them, but I certainly hope they both succeed. I have always liked Lynch both as a player and commentator. He comes across as a decent guy too. From all I know about Shanahan is that he is a gifted Xs and Os guy. Can they leverage the skills they age at the next level. I hope so.

                Baalke was a keen scout which is why he rose through the ranks. But his acerbic personality and insularity was his undoing. Let’s hope these guys learn from their missteps and accentuate their positives moving forward.

  40. I’m surprised that Seb hasn’t pointed out the obvious yet, or maybe he did, but we need a QB who can run for his life right nowNOT a pocket passer since we don’t have anyone to protect the QB!
    Kap comes to mind, caus really would he be worse than CJ???

    1. Thanks, Dee. I have been advocating for the Niners to sign Kaep before the draft. Still think he could have won those close games.
      .
      Imagine if the Niners were 5-4 instead of 0-9. But no, KS thought Hoyer was the answer, and now he is using CJB as cannon fodder. I fully expect CJB to bite his tongue off if he keeps playing.
      .
      I have brought up the fact that Kaep is fast, mobile, elusive, and can shrug off arm tackles. He is also tall enough not to bounce passes off Brown’s helmet. When Kaep can put his foot on the half yard line, then sprint up field untouched for a TD, out running the DBs, and can gain 181 yards in a playoff game, all the screeds against him are specious and full of hate.

          1. No you are just a rash on the blogs nuts always with your love affair of a QB who no longer plays on the NFL.
            Do us a favor, go back to Niner nation and be a knob there!

            1. Prime, you swore you would leave and never come back. What happened, get lonely?
              .
              You lie and welch on bets, so you should be quiet about being a rash.

              1. Sebnynah (with dumbest name on the blog), get your facts straight!

                You keep repeating things that are not true and that will never come to be. Go back to Niner Nation weasel!

    2. “Kap comes to mind, caus really would he be worse than CJ???”

      Kap is a seasoned veteran and you ask that question. The real question is would he be better then CJ a rookie with two and a half games under his belt. And that’s the problem you can not say yes to it as your own question creates doubt.

  41. Jack and East are keeping it real pointing out the many problems that the Niners have and pointing out the ineptness of KS up to this point. The easiest way to shut them up is to win a stinking football game. 0-9 with real possibilities of going 0-16 should bring up criticisms by all of us. I hear what Jack and East are saying, some don’t like it, so be it, I don’t like it either but the truth is the truth and until the team starts winning its going to be that way. Myself I have a wait and see attitude but next year at this time if there is no improvement I will be joining them in their assault of KS and Lynch. I haven’t given up on the team and am hoping KS gets it together but if not….

    For you Kelly haters that harped on the no huddle last year – how is the huddle working for you this year. Time of possession is even worst this year then last.

    Jack and East keep it up, I don’t like what you are saying but I believe you guys are speaking truths and I don’t like it but it is real.

    1. UC,

      I don’t like what I’m saying either. And I place the blame where it belongs, at the Yorks’ doorstep. They are the ones who kept Baalke too long and let go of decent coaches. They moved the team out of SF and into corporate hell. Instead of working with the fan base, they have isolated them.

      Is this latest move a step in the right direction? I hope so, but I will keep a jaundiced eye on the whole operation for awhile. I’ve been let down by there folks too often.

  42. This place is really depressing these days. It’s a bad team but there is a reason for it beyond bad Coaching. You can’t sustain the injuries they have to an already bad roster and expect to compete. This was a terrible team with no direction last year that beat a train wreck in LA twice. If last year’s team had sustained the level of injuries this one has they wouldn’t have won a game either. Kyle Shanahan has never been a HC before and sometimes it shows, but he’s a great innovator and will get this offense turned around eventually. It’s going to take time guys. Gotta be patient.

    1. rocket,
      +100
      Rocket please don’t be a stranger. I know that you left abruptly, but it’s time to come back and bring your “take” to the table.

    2. I hope so, but so far he has come accross as an entitled know it all who is unwilling to change his viewpoint even though he is very young. I find that a bit alarming for someone who has had literally zero success. He has been gifted great press but has yet to prove his mettle.

      Don’t get me wrong. I’m willing to wait things out with this crew, but I also want them to be held somewhat more accountable for the poor management of play calls and personnel.

      This year’s crew could not beat last year’s Rams.

      Since KS hasn’t been a head coach he might want to start acting like maybe he doesn’t know everything there is to know about football and perhaps start surrounding himself with seasoned football guys who might question his moves rather than yes men who are still rather young.

      1. Did KS call for a single screen to negate the blitzes?
        .
        KS was shaped by Arians. KS was so shaped, folded and spindled, he looked like an origami animal.

          1. But Shanny is going to be so much better that Arians because, once he gets the right personnel in place, his offense will be much more sustainable.
            Arians has not done anything in AZ even with all that talent. Their window is closed.

              1. LOL. Arians has won 63% of his games as a head coach in the NFL and given the Cardinals the best stretch since 74-76, but yeah what has that bum done.

              2. But like your hero Harbaugh, never could win the big one with all the talent in the world!
                I mean 63% winning pct. is good, but how many other coaches are in the same category? Its mediocre.

              3. Harbaugh’s winning percentage was 69.5, which is 5th best in NFL history.

                Arians’ win percentage puts him 4th among current head coaches with a minimum of 4 years.

              4. Yeah, I’d like to see Arians direct any of his QBs to wins taking 7 step drops behind the Niners’ O line and throwing to these Niners’ receivers.
                Common sense in this blog has been shrinking at a rate faster than Niners active roster….

              5. Mood: I think there’s a reasonable argument to be made that a fair percentage of the sacks and hits are on CJB, because he’s a rookie. As Barrows says (I’ve actually been saying this before Barrows published his statement below):

                “No, the 49ers offensive line has not been good. But C.J. Beathard is getting sacked at a higher rate than Brian Hoyer. Which suggests that he’s partly responsible for his big hit count. That’s not a slam on Beathard. You expect a rookie to hold onto the ball too long, to go through his progressions a beat too slowly. Rather, it’s meant to suggest that Garoppolo may not necessarily be in for the same pounding Beathard has received.”

                In the Arizona game, the tackles played reasonably well and Fusco made the PFF team of the week (giving up only 1 hurry in 51 pass snaps). Don’t get me wrong, this is not a good OL, but a more experienced QB who gets the ball out quicker should be able to take less of a beating. And if the real problems are Laken and Kilgore, they should be able to scheme around them (I’d seriously consider putting Beadles in for Laken – he’s been absolutely horrible).

              6. And that means that those guys are good coaches, Ill give them that. But to compare them to Shanny whose had 9 games, that’s not even a conversation yet.

              7. Cubus,

                I’d respectfully submit that the recent discussions on this blog has been akin to determining the proverbial number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. Not sure if it’s worthwhile to determine the percentage of sacks ascribable to QB vs. O line in the current Niners team. I also am not a fan of PFF grades for individual linemen. The O line works as a unit with adjacent linemen often helping each other out on pass pro. With a rookie QB behind a reshuffled line that has players who would not be on most NFL teams (let alone start). CJB probably does not recognized some of the disguised blitzes. Kilgore probably tries to help him out with protection calls. Not sure if all the linemen get those calls. CJ is probably finding it difficult to get rid of the ball if the receivers are not separating within 2 seconds without risking intentional grounding or an interception. It’s a hot mess for many reasons. Maybe folks who have studied coaches tape can comment on some of the sacks. I think there was a NinersNation post with some analysis.

              8. What is so good about Arians? He has really only had one season where the cards over performed. They have underperformed mostly this year in spite of having lary Fitzgerald, T Mathews, A.P. , Patrick Peterson, Chandler Jones… good defensive line-up but no offense.

              9. “What is so good about Arians?”

                My word the IQ level on this board has gone down the toilet. Last week I’m hearing Harbaugh wasn’t good. Now it’s Arians.

                Have people around here gotten so used to losing that winning really doesn’t matter anymore?

              10. By those parameters Belichick is lucky and so was Walsh. They just had good players around them. They weren’t that good of coaches. Neither was Lombardi or Shula.

    3. I appreciate the kind words guys, but I’m more read than respond these days. I’ll pop in from time to time, but just wanted to preach patience. Hang in there.

      1. +1 Rocket. We’ve had our share of disagreements but I’ve been preaching the same message. This thing is going to take a couple solid drafts and spending wisely in free agency. 2-3 years my guess.
        Welcome back again!

        1. I like Garoppolo, but I don’t like the trade so much. I would have preferred they waited until after the season to address signing him or Cousins. That’s a pretty valuable pick they gave up to see if he is the guy or not. Not much for him to work with the rest of the season either.

          1. But the 49ers might not have had the opportunity to get either him or Cousins at the end of the season. Cousins might stay in WA and JG might decide he’d rather go somewhere else, especially if the team finishes with less than a few wins. This way they lock him up and can take a test drive. The team is 0-9, they have to take some risk.

            If JG were still with the Patriots, would he be a FA immediately after the season is over – I’m asking if the Patriots would have had another chance to try and trade him before the start of 2018 FA. I would think the answer is no, otherwise why trade him at the end of October.

              1. Jack: There’s a couple of ways to rebuild. Are you more of a proponent of building up the lines and skill positions first and then try to bring in a franchise QB or do you favor making getting the potential franchise QB as soon as possible and simultaneously and subsequently building up the lines and skill positions. Or maybe you have another path.

      2. Rocket man, my Blood Brother. Sounds like you’re enjoying your Sanctury from the blog;>)What we have here, is a complete lack of awareness. The York Landfill from Baalke/Tomsula/Kelly can’t be re-purposed in one year….

        1. Yeah I am Razor, had to happen. It’s going to take time but this team will get there eventually. Hope all is good with you.

          1. It’s never all good, but I’ll take what I can get with the bad. Life is like football. Adversity builds character, and we should have a bunch of characters on this team when it’s all said and done. Thanks for asking….

  43. Yes, the Niners suck. ANY 0-9 team sucks.
    .
    Still I am hopeful. The biggest reason is because Baalke was fired, and they had Lynch fall in their lap.
    .
    Excuses excuses. Yes, this team has endured many injuries, but last season, they lost Bowman, and Bellore not only ran out of the proper gap, he blocked his own players, so third string RBs could gallop for 200 yards.
    .
    Sure, losing sucks, and only the die hards are still posting because losing is no fun, and all the bandwagon posters are long gone. I will continue to post because this is a team I love, and want them to win multiple more rings.
    .
    I will not hold back on my criticisms, because, frankly, they deserve them. I will also post on how I think they might learn from their mistakes, and present ways how I think they can improve.
    .
    First of all, all arrogance should be beaten out of KS, and he should not pontificate that since he is HC, he does not need an OC. An 0-9 team needs an OC. KS is like the defendant who decides to be his own lawyer. Too bad he is represented by a fool. BB has won SBs, and guess what? He has an OC.
    .
    When KS decided to punt, he just conceded the tank, and his refusal to play JG is another sign of them being content to lose.
    .
    Personally, I want them to win a damn game. That means either playing JG or signing Kaep.

    1. Weasel says “Personally, I want them to win a damn game. That means either playing JG or signing Kaep.

      Well signing Kap aint never gonna happen so I guess you lose!

        1. Every time you bring up Kap dummy, Ill be sure to feed you as much crow as you need.

          Where is the storm weasel? We are onto week 10 and desperate QB teams are not calling old wind up, hmmm? Idiot!

          1. Yup, teams are desperate. GB has Hundley, and are watching their division title slip away. Texans tried Savage 2 times, with similar results. Now they are signing JJ, who has not thrown a pass in almost 6 years. Broncos benched Siemian, and Osweiler is so bad, even Cleveland cut him. Browns are incompetent, and the butt of jokes. Even Kaep does not want to go there.
            .
            Miami has Cutler back, and lost. Winston may be out and Fitzpatrick? Jags are winning despite Bortles, and some team mates want an upgrade. Even the Giants may bench their starter, and the Bears are bubble wrapping Trubisky by not allowing him to pass.
            .
            Niners have a shell shocked CJB who has been bludgeoned way too many times. Sure wish the Niner Coaches were smart enough to run the ball. Now, they are terrified JG will get injured, so they will play CJB until he is beaten into the ground.
            .
            Prime, I am actually getting encouraged that Kaep may come back. No other team seems interested in signing him, despite the poor QB play and attrition. Goodell wants that grievance negated, and the best way to do that is allow Kaep to play. If the collusion is proven, it may lead to having the present CBA voided 3 years early, which is the last thing the owners want to do. CJB may be concussed, and the turnstile O line may allow JG to be injured, so the Niners may be forced to obtain a new QB.
            .
            Yes, the other teams are idiots for being content to lose without Kaep, than possibly winning with him. That storm is looming on the horizon.

        1. Quit getting your panties in a twist. Grant led the blog thinking about a third QB. Everyone thought he was going to broach the subject about Kaep, but he wisely swerved to mention Barkley. However, Barkley is about as good as McGloin.
          .
          Grant was smart not to mention Kaep, because KS might get belligerent like McCarthy. The avoidance of even mentioning Kaep’s name just confirms the blackballing. Now they are falling over themselves, twisting their excuses not to sign Kaep. O’Brien cited Kaep being out of the league and not playing, then signed JJ, a player who has not thrown a pass for almost 6 years.
          .
          One pundit surmises that the grievance will prevent Kaep from playing. He forgets that if Kaep is signed, he will not have a grievance.
          .
          Here is another new thing to think about. What if CJB develops headaches? His head slammed to the turf at least 9 times last game. Every one of those hits could be described as concussive blows. Then if JG is put in as a replacement, and he has an O lineman acting like a turnstile, and lets a pass rusher drive his shoulder that was injured last season, into the turf, re-injuring his shoulder, who would be the QB?
          .
          This is why Grant asked who would be the third QB. This is why the Niners are losing. They do not have contingency plans, and cannot make the proper adjustments. This lack of preparation is dooming the season. Signing Kaep would eliminate the possibility of JG becoming injured, which will lower his trade value. Niners could truthfully say that they cannot adequately protect JG, so they might shelve him, especially if JG wants to play for a playoff team that has good offensive weapons and a stout defense.
          .
          JG may not want to play on a winless team that is in full rebuild. Since he is smart, he may want to move on. Moving on would garner the Niners 2 first round picks, so having 3 first round picks will greatly aid the rebuild, and accelerate the timetable for a winning season.
          .
          Of course, JG may want to stay in SF, and play, but he also stood on the side line, and watched CJB get bludgeoned. No wonder he was reticent at the PC.
          .
          Saw, you are not too original yourself. You never come to this site except to attack ad nauseum. You really need to pick up your game. Calling names and throwing out insults put you in the spiteful troll category.

    2. Yeah it’s a real shocker that a defensive minded coach has an OC.
      YOUR point makes complete sense… Bill Walsh always had a DC. Mike Shanahan has always had a DC. Mike Holmgren has always had a DC. Pete Carroll has always had an OC.
      Smh

      1. Bill Walsh was a genius, and built a dynasty from scratch. He was the HC and OC, but he was the exception. Very few other HCs did not, and do not have an OC.
        .
        Chip tried, and failed, even though his OC was a glorified RB coach. I think every other team in the league has an OC. Even McVay conceded the need to have an OC, and hired Matt LaFleur.
        .
        My point is that KS is stubborn, and after a 0-9 start, he may concede the need for an OC. The Niners are 29th in the league in scoring. Maybe KS should fire his OC.

  44. It is certainly frustrating to be a follower of the team right now, but if you are here in this room , there will always be a next year. So buck up people…

  45. sebnynah says:
    November 8, 2017 at 9:40 am
    Thanks, Dee. I have been advocating for the Niners to sign Kaep before the draft. Still think he could have won those close games.
    .
    Imagine if the Niners were 5-4 instead of 0-9.

    TomD’s Take: Imagine no possessions, it’s easy if you try. Nothing play, or win for, or rooting for your annual 4th place team.

    Now Shanny’s strategy has positioned the 49ers for a monster 2018 draft—imagine a 1st or 2nd place finish in what’s known as a QB draft–all the draft picks teams will give us…As we edge closer to the draft, you know someone will want Larmar Jackson (AKA–the next Michael Vick), Josh Allen, Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold.

    Seb, you keep wishing these 5 win seasons on us….Using your strategy we’ll become another NBA team, perpetually mired in mediocrity–not good enough for the playoffs or bad enough for top 10 talent.

    In one trade, B-O-O-M, Shanahan has our franchise QB (Garoppolo) and a kings ransom in draft picks.

    I hope this ends your tired Kap rants from the loony bin.

  46. not sure what the whinning is about…….

    Yes…we stink at 0-9

    Kyle is not going anywhere

    Jimmy is our QB – he his getting ready and he will play before the season is over

    We don’t have top notch talent – but we will get some

    So what is the beef?

    1. The beef is One, people like to complain and they think results grow over night.
      We live in a world now where processes are unacceptable. Time is now and what have you done for me in the last 20 minutes!

  47. As many of us have stated, we don’t need a third QB because Garoppolo could play with a limited offense if he had to.

    http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/111382-shanahan-plans-start-beathard-but-see-practice-goes/

    “He came in last week, crammed in the verbiage, worked as hard as you could at it,” Shanahan said. “We had a plan for him last week, if we needed to him, that he was ready for.”

    Jimmy wants to play. Not a surprise that a pro athlete wants to compete. When he’s ready, you play him. Keep Jimmy happy.

    “I’m eager (to play),” Garoppolo told reporters on Wednesday. “Coach has a good plan set up, though. Whatever he wants, I’ll be ready to perform.”

        1. Did you read the part where the piece says: “Shanahan doesn’t want to play his new quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo”? That’s the whole premise.

          If Shanahan really doesn’t want to play him then yeah, they need another QB.

          If Shanahan doesn’t mind throwing his new investment out to the wolves then no, he doesn’t need a new QB.

          1. “If Shanahan doesn’t mind throwing his new investment out to the wolves then no, he doesn’t need a new QB.”

            Yes, that’s it. He doesn’t mind playing Garoppolo if CJ gets hurt. That is clearly the case now, as KS stated today.

  48. Prime,

    ASSUS (AkA, ASUS) is another Seb account…Lets refer to him as Seb/ASSUs…..Notice Razor and ASUS use uranus as their go to line more than anyone here.

    Asus says:
    November 8, 2017 at 12:57 pm
    I’m not surprised by your sphincter fascination

    Reply
    Prime Time says:
    November 8, 2017 at 2:05 pm
    Your the guy with the screen name Asus. Ironic isn’t it!

  49. My take on this is that Shanahan must feel comfortable with JG going in if there is an injury, despite the limited time he has had to learn the offense. That is the only reason why you wouldn’t bring a 3rd QB in. While the preference is to let him sit for a bit yet, if he is forced to play then that is ok by Shanahan. So knowing Shanahan feels comfortable with that happening makes much of the remaining argument null and void.

    As to the argument that Shanahan shouldn’t put JG in at all this year for fear of it impacting on future negotiations, all I can say is if I was JG and spent the rest of the year not getting on the field I would see that as more of a detriment to my desire to stay than playing for a bad team. Because he knows it is a bad team. He knew it coming here. He will know it watching CJ take a beating. No matter what happens, JG will know this is currently a bad team. What he needs is to believe the HC and GM trust him, want him, and will do what it takes to make the team better. And that starts with letting him get on the field and start to make this his team.

    1. Shanny is putting together simplified sets of plays for JG to play this season. I’d think the determining factor for when he takes the field would be his ability to assimilate the minimum number of plays that Shanny thinks is needed to call a complete game. I find it hard to believe that this period would be any shorter than 3 weeks for even a very bright football mind considering the vocabulary difference.

    2. Jimmy knows they want him, because they gave up a 2nd/1st Round pick for him. That’s a lot for a team that’s in the beginning of a rebuild. I agree he needs to get on the field, and take command of this team. I’m confident that’s exactly what they’ll do after the bye. By then, he should have digested enough of the playbook to game plan an entire game, not to mention Staley should be back at LT….

    3. Scooter,

      “My take on this is that Shanahan must feel comfortable with JG going in if there is an injury, despite the limited time he has had to learn the offense. That is the only reason why you wouldn’t bring a 3rd QB in.”

      I agree. But wasn’t this obvious last week when KS decided to go with two QBs? That’s my problem with this thread. KS wouldn’t carry only two QBs unless he was prepared to put in Garoppolo if need be, so no need for a third QB.

      The whole KS doesn’t want to start Garoppolo is a hypothetical situation. Even if KS didn’t want to start JG this year and CJ gets a long term injury, JG would finish that game. Calling up Mullens to start would be a move to make after the CJ injury, not before.

  50. Listening to KS’ presser sure gave me the feeling that Jimmy G will be playing sooner rather than later. He also noted that if they had felt Jimmy was ready for last week’s game, they would have activated Nick M.

    Grant asks a question at the 4:34 mark and KS’ answer pretty much explains exactly what the thinking was in getting Jimmy G and what their plan is. He said that Jimmy could have run about 25 run plays last week and 20 pass plays if needed. I found this presser really worth listening to.

    http://www.49ers.com/video/videos/Shanahan-49ers-Offense-Needs-to-Dictate-What-Defense-is-Doing/b3f44f20-3707-4770-941c-6ee8af71ca23

    1. There are two coaches in 49ers history who I could listen to for days and days talk about football. One, was Steve Mariucci and the other is Kyle Shanahan.

      Every day in his pressers he tells us a little bit more and more about what the eventual plan is and the reasons behind it. Not too many coaches do that in this league.

  51. 2018 NFL Draft: Don’t bank on the 49ers selecting running back Saquon Barkley
    by Peter Panacy1 hour ago

    “Here’s why the San Francisco 49ers won’t select him with their first pick.” Granted, Barkley might easily be the best overall prospect this year…the thing is, though, going after a runner so early doesn’t fit with Shanahan’s plans.”

    “Center Daniel Kilgore and right guard Brandon Fusco are free agents in 2018, prompting more needs to be addressed in free agency/the NFL Draft.

    Fourth and Nine’s Dylan DeSimone described how this has hindered Hyde’s once-high potential in recent years:

    The 49ers’ back is actually doing much, much more than meets the eye. Once he’s handed the ball, he first has to spin, juke or break out of a tackle behind the line of scrimmage before making his read and charging up field. For his entire pro career to date, he’s had to work around the offensive line, rather than jive with it.
    If the Niners re-sign Hyde, the Barkley discussion is essentially over. A depth tailback like, let’s say, San Diego State’s Rashaan Perry could be a nice mid-to-late-round addition. But not a player like Barkley in Round 1.
    Granted, a series of free-agent moves to upgrade the O-line would make a massive difference. And the Niners have the cap space to make a number of moves work.”

    1. I think he has already said he will retire at the end of the year. So really only makes sense for a playoff bound team to sign him, and only if he is healthy.

  52. Thanks Tommy! You always give us tons of info on players from every spectrum. Appreciated! I’ve become lazy and usually just wait for Seb to put forth his daily(s) mocks for the upcoming draft that cover every player from here to Pluto and back. Also much appreciated. It’s like having my own little intern. The fact that he would claim that he called one or five after pretty much mocking every eligible breathing athlete is a side issue!! ;-)

  53. Kaepernick isn’t signed because NFL owners arent interested in winning.

    TV deals and revenue sharing have undermined winning in the league. Lazy NFL owners don’t need to spend money to field a competive team. They simply profit off of market shares and lucrative TV deals. The Browns aren’t going to generate more money for the organization by winning 12 games. They may increase viewership, but that increase will be split between 31 other teams based on market share. When the math is finished the cost of wins to roi simply doesn’t make winning a good investment.

    Kaepernick wants to believe he is being colluded against. Instead, he shed light on the decrepency of the NFL.

    Each year teams move closer to mediocracy. The NFL wants closer games for the same reason nascar wanted governors. It keeps viewers watching.

    KS isnt interested in signing a 3rd QB because the team has already cashed the revenue check for 2017. This isn’t the 80’s and 90’s NFL any longer. This NFL is stadium revenue and tv deals. Winning is an afterthought.

  54. Guess I better brake out the old dictionary this blog has blown into a whimsical dissertation of fanatical bloggers. Holy Crap!!

    1. Yeah, UC
      Hilarious. The Evolution and Planetary History threads are comedic gold! We’ve got some real tin foil hat boys contributing here, LOL!

      1. Bro – Well we both no the twist and turns of Cohn’s blog goes in many directions. Not sure if I have seen one written with such enormous energy of saying absolutely nothing.

  55. Periodically, one of our professional psychoanalysts drops in for an uncharged visit. At over $$200.00/Hr, I, for one, cherish the moments I can read a real pro psychoanalyzing ‘The Seb’, laptop in hand sunny day, at the park under an oak tree.

    Gadfly +1

    Gadlfy says:
    November 8, 2017 at 5:21 pm

    And no, The Seb, this screed, as you would label it in your unique personal idiom, is not directed toward you, although I will just assume that up until this point you thought that it was, as your crippling narcissism and dearth of self-awareness lead you to believe that all is about yourself. You too have no ability to appreciate irony (or even know that such entombs you in the darkness of your own ignorance),

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