49ers’ sideline outbursts draw Kyle Shanahan’s ire

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SANTA CLARA — 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan didn’t like some of his players yelling at each other during the 30-point loss to the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday. He confirmed this at his Monday press conference.

“I didn’t see it, but I talked to our coaches first about it who told me some of the stuff you guys (reporters) were talking about. I talked to some of the players also. A lot of what it sounded to me like was kind of typical stuff when you are getting embarrassed like you were. Guys do get frustrated … But, by no means is that stuff that I want. I’m looking for guys to make differences on the field.”

As opposed to on the sideline. Here’s what happened: Safety Jaquiski Tartt and linebacker Ray Ray Armstrong shouted at each other while they were on the field and after they went to the bench. And cornerback Rashard Robinson threw his helmet on the sideline. Safety Eric Reid and defensive backs coach Jeff Hafley had to calm Robinson down.

Shanahan doesn’t respect those kind of outbursts.

Click here to read the rest of my article.

This article has 207 Comments

    1. Wentz is impressive! Poise, mobility, smarts and a rocket for an arm! We need to be fortunate to find someone as talented as that.

      1. He’s kind of reminding me of Aaron Rodgers. But I haven’t seen much more than highlights. And highlights… Well, even bad players can generate some highlights.

        1. I was thinking the exact same thing about Wentz-Rodgers. I’ve seen highlights and then I watched MNF against the Redskins. That’s when I made my post. He just zips the ball right in there. He seems to have a ton of confidence this year.

  1. Maybe Hafley should coach Mr. Robinson to play the football. All I ever see him do is play a trail technique, and never look back to make a play on the ball….

    1. Idiot Robinson is the NFL leader in pass interference calls. That should tell you something. He needs to learn to play football before he’s on the field again
      .

      1. The 1st thing Robinson needs to learn to do is STFU. Dude does WAY too much talking for the way he plays on the field

    1. Prime Time – Anybody who watched the Eagles win over the Skins last night has to be impressed with the depth in the Eagles defensive line and aware that the Eagles DC has a great blitz package and did a good job pressuring a beat up Redskin O-line where at least 3 starters went down.

      The 6-1 Broad Street Bullies will be ready for the Niners come Sunday. Maybe the short week for the Eagles will give the Niners some breathing room.

    1. What everyone seems to be overlooking is that Monday night’s game was a divisional one. Washington and Philly are arch rivals and there is bad blood between them. We’ll be catching them off of a short week and they most likely won’t be having one of their best games, knowing that an 0-7 team is coming in (with a rookie QB making his 2nd start, at that!) I’m not saying that the 49ers are going to beat the Eagles, (Before these latest injuries to the DL, I would have had more hope of that) I’m just saying that it might not be as bad as you think.

      1. Another great solid pick from Notre Dame is #56 left guard , Quenton Nelson 6’5 325. Probable mid first rounder. Start the rebuild with replacing the OL and getting a solid QB. I like the Oklahoma QB, KS may not like him. CJ I believe will be a future 2nd stringer.

    1. rollomasi- You don’t even know their long term plan, yet your giving them advice on how to carry it out. Did you even read the article where Shanahan explains why things are the way the are. It’s not just an excuse because if anyone had a brain they would recognize that things are going according to plan. No need to make major specific decisions now. It is better to keep multiple options open.

      1. Presumably their long term plan is winning a super bowl. This is a passing league. We need a good qb and cousins fits the mold. Plus he is young. He can be a niners franchise qb for 10+ years.

        1. Rollo Tomasi– Actually they are shooting higher than just winning a Superbowl. They want to put together a team that not only will win A SUPERBOWL but will be contenders for a long time. It is far easier to gear to winning one Super Bowl than to contend for multiple years. Contending for multiple years requires efficient use of resources. That requires establishing a core of solid players who do not eat up a lot of cap space. It isn’t the highly paid players that make a team consistent contenders but solid mid-range ( salaried ) ones that do. Sure if you are shooting to win a superbowl you can do it by putting all your eggs in one basket ( plan salary cap to compete one year ), but if you want to be a long term contender that requires effective use of resources. That is why they are not spending their huge cap space before they have acquired and filled in those mid range players. This season they are doing that. Experimenting with multiple players to find ones that fit within the system. They can afford to do that because this season ( and perhaps even next ) is for player evaluation. Thats why the low cost player musical chairs.

          What they are doing makes a lot of sense if you understand their long term plan.

            1. Not if if interferes with the long term objective. Do teams shoot to win preseason games or do try to accomplish what their objectives of getting ready for the regular season. These games are just like preseason games for the team. Their main objective is not to win games but to use these games and season for the purpose of player evaluation and rebuilding. If the wins happen in the process so much the better but that was never the primary objective.

              You seem to have immediate gratification issues. This is why you couldn’t understand why they didn’t keep Kaep. Hey I also believe Kaep would have gotten them more wins this season, but I understand why they let him go. It was a long term move.

              With the Cap space they had available they could have fielded a team that might have even competed for their division this season had they wanted too. But you see they have other plans for that cap space. And it just so happens that the evaluation process they are going through has the added reward of higher picks next season which also fits into the rebuilding plan.

          1. Will, there is one current dynasty and two other potential upcomers who are in in the SB hunt every year – Pats, Pack, Seahawks. What do they have in common – a franchise qb. Tom brady has succeeded with a lot of different “core” and “solid” players. Let’s make cousins our franchise qb and build around him.

    2. I like the idea. As I believe that provides the fastest turnaround.
      Cousins at QB. A FA signing at G or OT and either LB or DB. No need to over spend on these, just get solid, above average players.
      Then with the traded pick get an edge rusher and one more OL with your firsts, and a db with your second.
      Of course that’s all based on a perfect scenario which almost never happens.

      1. Cousins at QB might not be the best use of available resources. He will be a high cost signing which if other options are available they probably will pass on. Shanahan probably has the confidence that he can develop a rookie to fill that role at less cost. The best scenario for them would be to develop a rookie and have another in the wings to take over by the time his contract expires. A solid team and system with a good moderate cost QB is more effective long term that an elite highly paid QB with a lesser team. I could give a logical explanation for that very easily.

        Now if you were going to shoot for one year the elite highly paid QB might makes sense under the right conditions.

        1. The 49ers are projected to have the most cap room available in the NFL next year. Signing Cousins would be easy and not affect their cap situation long term. I’m not sure how good he can be with a rebuilding team, but if they sign Cousins and put a decent team around him, he will be excellent. Great character, self made player and extremely hard worker. Shanahan loves him and likely would push Lynch to sign him if he does come free. If they did that, then they could sell their first to the highest bidder and acquire the picks necessary to rebuild the foundation of this team. I really like Rosen though.

          1. Yes that is an option. They will always keep that option open, but it might turn out to not be their best available option. If Shanahan believes that there is a QB available through the draft who in a year or two be at the level to compete while still being on their rookie salary for at least three more years that is a huge plus. Signing Cousins and building a team around him is wasting the years ( they have to pay him top dollar) it would require to build until they are ready to win it all. The difference between a QB on their rookie salary and the cost of Cousins could be utilized to maintain the core of the teams talent. Remember they are going for a team that can be a sustainable contender. The opportunity here allows them to build a team from the ground up in that image. Putting too much money into one player this early is not a good long term plan. Besides Cousins will get top dollar when he signs based purely on demand. A team that is ready to compete or a coach that needs to win now might make that move but for a team like the Niners there are better options available.

            1. Why does he now just sign Kap who has a 4-2 playoff record and holds the rushing record by a QB in the playoffs…

              Kap is bold and wont run into te teeth of the defense. He can look off safeties and pump fake and throw it 60 yards down field.

              he is unlike a Abrams tank in a pit.

              KS should hire Chip Kelly as offensive coordinator and bring back Jim Tomsula as defensive line coach.

              I thought John Lynch wanted to win a damn game…….

              Go Niners

              1. Seb:You never fail to amaze most 49er fans. We are not looking backward but forward. You should work for NN with Fooch who also holds onto his Kap hopes.

            2. As much as I like some of the QB’s in this upcoming class, Cousins is a safer option and one Shanahan will want if he comes available. Getting a QB speeds up the rebuild and one who is familiar with the system even more. What they pay him is irrelevant. They literally can pay him half the contract in the first two years without hurting themselves long term with the amount of space they have. What needs to happen for them to be successful is to then put a competent Oline in front of Cousins and give him a couple of high level weapons to throw to.

      2. If the Skins give Cousins the franchise tag, and the Niners want him, you can erase the 2018 and 2019 early round drafts because those picks will be in Redskin park in VA. The club is more than a QB away offensively from being even competitive.

        1. I was thinking we should sign Cousins if available at the end of the year. However, it seems like franchise QBs are typically selected in the top 5 of the draft (not always but typically). If the team heads in the right direction (as we fans want it to), 2018 might be the last time for a while that the 49ers have a top five draft pick. So maybe it would be better to draft a QB if they have one of the top draft picks in 2018.

          There’s multiple ways to do this. Signing Cousins would probably be the quickest way to turn the team around. With a rookie QB there’s no history of success like there is with Cousins. But many don’t consider Cousins an elite QB and at his age there’s probably not much upside left.

          1. cubus – What was Wentz’s record as a rookie starting QB last year? Also, look at how he is playing this year. Outstanding…….Wonder how many times a night Hue Jackson rethinks and plays the what if game about passing on Wentz? On the other hand, Goff could not get off the bench for the first 7 or 8 games last year, and then virtually was horrible the balance of the Rams season.

            Even if it is Cousins at QB in 2018, it will depend more on the supporting cast around him and the defensive improvements than on his play because if the rest of the offense does not under go a serious upgrade, Cousins will be unable to make up for all of that poor play around him. Look at what happened to Cousins last night as more Skins O-linemen left the game with injuries. Pressure, people in his face, hurried throws and sacks.

            Bottom line, it takes more than one player to fix the woes of the Niners. KS and Lynch need a Herschel Walker or Ollie Matson trade, but those don’t exist any more!!!!!!!

            1. Exactly! A QB more than any other player is reliant on the players around him to produce. I give Aikman from Dallas as an example. When his line got old and he lost his top receiver and Emmit Smith his production dropped miserably. He did not make that team. The team made him. A solid team can make a good QB look elite. Cousins is not worth the cost it would take to sign him. It might be to a team that just needs a QB to make a one year run. Or a coach that needs wins to keep his job.

              1. Will, I think that if your premise is true they would be building from the inside out. The OL was more or less ignored draft wise and it is here where games are won and lost. I think current history attests to this.

                The DL also desperately needs pass rusing help and this has been true for the last couple of years so they knew that this was an area of great need.

                Additionally, in a CB rich draft they ignored some of the key Young talent for a redundant player who has questionable skills on the outside.

                Additionally, they run the risk of losing the players if they focus simply on the future while ignoring the present. Winning is infectious but so is losing.

            2. Mike:

              Agree that they need far more than a QB. But there still has to be a plan created to get the necessary players. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that acquiring a QB will fix all the problems. The plan can go a number of ways in order to acquire those players. The plan, imo, needs to be a combination of draft capital and available cap space (I guess this is obvious). Since FA comes first, should they try and fill their priority list first with FAs and then draft picks (it probably depends on exactly where they will be drafting and also who is available in FA). So many variables especially at this point in time. The way forward for the plan should be more clear after the season ends, but there will still be multiple paths that seem viable. Let’s hope they pick the right one.

              1. Let’s hope they pick the right one.

                Agreed, but I’m glad that we have Shanahan making the pick. He seems to know how to pick QBs.

    3. I think the Niners should sign a QB right now. Bowman showed how a player can study hard, become the field general and play so well he got 11 tackles, after 3 days of being on the team.
      .
      Cousins will stay in Washington, probably with a long term deal.
      .
      Trading back is smart.

    4. I doubt that any decent, established QB will want to come to the 49ers until the team addresses their OL issues. What really sucks is that Joshua Garnett was injured and they couldn’t find out if he can play in this system. Unfortunately, the free agency period starts well before the draft. If Lynch and Shanahan want to entice a good veteran QB, they’d better sign at least 2 decent FA O-linemen, with the promise of drafting more.

      1. Kt49er– What you say makes sense. That is precisely what they are doing. Remember they are keeping their options open. They can use this season and even next to fill out the core of the team without spending all their resources. These guys have a plan. It’s only because it is unique or has never or seldom been tried that most of the posters are clueless to what is going on. I recognize a methodology in their actions and it is geared for long term success. I also recognized major dysfunction in Trents methodology which is why it was easy to predict the franchises collapse early on as well.

        1. willtalk-Considering that the 49ers have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds and 7 in the first 4 rounds, (and they will be early picks) I don’t see a necessity to trade back. That plus free agency should definitely put them on the right track to becoming competitive in 2018. I don’t see next year as being the same evaluation wise. (Of course, coaches and teams are always evaluating). I think that they’ll have enough good players to be able to compete. If someone offers a king’s ransom for the 1st round pick, then, by all means, take it. I think that Shanahan and Lynch expected to be more competitive this year. We were in games 2 through 6, but with all of the injuries to the defense and not having Bowman, it’s going to look a lot like last year from now on. I think that they also overestimated the OL. It’s a shame that the 49ers didn’t win at least two of those close games because now I wonder if they’ll win any at all.

    5. NO ! Stay on the path of rebuilding through the draft….I think that Cousins is good, but even with Snyder’s money, the Redskins haven’t won any Lombardi’s during his stay…too much money; too little promise…. we need big agile , ornery, Olinemen…Harris Barton …Guy McIntire… types…and a TE like Dave “the Ghost” Casper. Most of the pieces are in place, with good choices in the draft, and FA, we’ll be at least a wild card next season. HOLD ONTO OUR DRAFT CHOICES !

      1. The OL is important for starting the foundation. A big nice house with a weak porous foundation is no bueno. To keep the most important position on the team, the QB even Brady..upright in a deep pocket 3-4 seconds and off the IR, start with the OL. Notre Dame left guard, Quenton Nelson 6’5 325 is one of types I believe you mention. I think getting a couple solid CB’s in the draft or FA is important for the rebuild.

  2. How about we get rid of all the Baalke trash that’s left on the team. I mean those players are the real problem. They all suck. 5th rounders drafted in the 1st and second round. Gimme a break. Nobody had made any impact on our team from the 2011-2016 draft. He had over 60 picks and couldn’t even accidentally draft at least one decent player. FOH.

    1. Some of that Baalke trash might have some use. They might not be as bad as they appear. Playing with ineffective players around you makes you look worse than you are. The opposite is also true. When the team around you is effective it makes you look better. There are 53+ slots to fill to build a solid team. You don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. You also have to make use of the resources you have– at least until something better is available.

  3. I’m probably talking out of turn here (I was a 1-yr old baby back in ’79 so this is way before my time!) but a little part of me wonders if that “pep talk” that Shanahan gave the team the evening before the Dallas game might’ve done more harm than good?

    Imagine you’re giving your all week in week out, putting your heart & soul on the line each Sunday (and I do believe, up until the Dallas game, the biggest improvement for this team compared to the last 2 seasons had been effort) and then your head coach basically tells you that he’s trying to build a dynasty over the next few years that you, as a current player, probably aren’t going to be part of.

    I mean, Walsh pretty much overhauled the best part of his defence for that ’81 season. How many players that were on the roster in ’79 eventually went on to play in the superbowl of ’81? Genuine question… but I’m guessing not many?

    I hope Shanahan was able to couch his thoughts in a manner that wasn’t too demotivating. I personally never made it to pro-level sports but I got pretty close. I know from my own experience that as a player you don’t care about what’s going to happen in 5 years time, you care about the here and now, you care about winning each and every game. Players don’t want to wait half a decade to have success, many of them may not even be playing that far into the future, no guarantee even the rookies will last that long.

    For the fans, as frustrating as it is, we can probably wait that long. The franchise certainly can (as evidenced by the long-term contracts given to ShanaLynch). But for the players… are they happy knowing they are just pawns in Shanahan’s longer-term game or do they want to be winning trophies now? I think the frustrations coming out on the sideline by Tartt and others probably answers that question.

    1. Just out of curiosity Brit. Where you live at? I have lived in Prague for the past few years. Kinda miss the days when I didn’t have to stay up until 2 am to finish a game 😀

      1. Devon… England. But probably a very similar time zone to Eastern Europe. The early kick-offs are no problem, the late ones usually require staying up till well past midnight (but I have been known to stay up if the game is worth watching). The late/evening games are usually far too late, with the exception of the superbowl of course!

        Prague? Visited several times, wonderful place. The U Stare Pani jazz club still there? I’ve fond memories of that place, plus numerous late nights in various beer halls filling myself full of Pilsner and a variety of potato and cheese-based bar snacks. Good times…

        1. Not sure about u stare jazz pub I’ll check. My friendsgo to jazz dock. Yeah, the beer halls here are amazing. It’s hard to beat half litre glasses of fresh Pilsner for less than 2 dollars or 1 pound in your case.
          Agreed on the early games. Sadly rooting for a west coast team makes them few and far between.

            1. I have NFL GamePass for the last few seasons, before that I paid through the nose for Sky Sports (which is an expensive, wide-ranging sports package which is great if you also watch a lot of F1 racing, football (soccer), golf, etc. But doesn’t have much by way of US sports apart from the NFL).

              GamePass costs me about £100 for a season pass, and I stream it to whatever I like. The NFL/GamePass app works pretty well on my Xbox One (the stream is as good as cable TV to my eyes) but I can also watch via an internet browser on my w10 laptop.

              In fact, sometimes I have RedZone on the main TV streamed to my Xbox, and then the Niners game live on my laptop at the same time. There doesn’t seem to be any restrictions with GamePass on how many devices you can watch on provided its through a single router.

              For £100 a season I get all games each week apart from one game which is a UK blackout (usually because its the same game that SkySports is showing live) plus all the playoffs and SB. Its pretty good value really.

              1. Thanks, BritishNiner and Shoup! I might be in the Philippines next year. I was just trying to see what options there might be and it sounds like I can probably do either one.

    2. British Niner— If I remember correctly— What they added in 81 were some key pieces. The ended up getting Board from the Chargers ( he was the edge rusher they lacked ). HackSaw Reynolds – who brought the intensity. And of course that the key DB’s the picked up in the draft. Fortune sort of smiled on them that year. Reynolds as a free agent, Board being available and probably the greatest draft haul in DB’s in one year by any team ever. Luck played a key part. They got everything they needed in one year. I remember telling a friend when they got Reynolds and Hacksaw that they were now a Super bowl team.

      The thing about his talk to the players– He is a really good communicator. The players have all stated so- even Kerley who was let go. (forgot was he traded or let go? ). He pretty much told the players what his plans for the team are so it’s not a surprise to them what he is doing. He is building for the future and success for the team will not be measured by wins and losses this year. You can not take any individual pregame speech out of context. I don’t think it would discourage any of the younger players because they envision themselves as being part of the future. It is players like Staley who might be effected, but as vets they should be smart enough already to know what the situation is. The thing with Shanahan is that he is not going to blow smoke up peoples rears to get a short term return. He is honest about things and while that might be a short term negative it will have long term rewards. Players will trust him. You can see that by Kerleys positive assessment of him even though he was not part of their plan.

        1. Seb– You are right. I stand corrected. I never seem to be able to remember his name even though I was really stoked when they got him. I also always forgot Ed McCaffertys name as well. The Niners letting him go still sticks in my craw. The let him go to save the chump change they use to extend Stokes contract. I know he signed with Denver for less than 500,000 where he became Elways top receiver. Can you imagine what kind of offense the Niners would have had with McCafferty and Owens as their receivers.

          1. I’m sure you are right. Like I said, I was somewhat musing out loud as to the apparent step-change in work ethic between the first 6 games – particularly on D where they fought tooth and nail for the full 60 – and the Dallas game where they appeared to give up.

            Why is that? What has changed? Maybe i’m overthinking. Maybe it was as simple as the fumbled punt return at the start of the game setting the overall tone from the outset. Maybe the fire had to burn out at some point and game 7 was the line in the sand?

            Whatever it is, hoping its just a blip and they rekindle some of that “killer attitude” (thanks, Saleh!) against the Eagles.

          2. True, but in all fairness, McCaffrey was drafted by the Giants and only had moderate success in the 3 years he played for them. The year he played for the 49ers, he only caught 11 passes. If I remember correctly, he used to get a bunch of nagging injuries at the time. I think that he wanted out of San Francisco because he could never get on the field, with Jerry Rice and John Taylor ahead of him.

            Even when he went to Denver, his first 3 years were average. He had never caught more than 50 passes in a season until 1998. From from 1998-2000, he gained over 1,000 yards a season. 2000 was his best year when he caught 101 passes for 1,317 yards. He was a late bloomer for sure. A lot of that might have been that he never had the opportunity until later in his career. I can still remember that he used to make some amazing catches for the Broncos.

  4. Great post Brit, who’s gonna give it their all when it’s been made clear winning isn’t a priority. Not fair to the guys in that locker room, not to mention the fans forking over cash for this bush league product.
    Guess which 2 teams have the most salary cap space……our beloved Niners and Cle. Coincidence? Absolutely not! Id guess we have been in top 10 since they built their joke of a stadium, pinchn pennies along the way…..

    1. Exactly.

      And I know these guys aren’t stupid, everyone can see what is happening with this franchise. Its been clear from the start. But at the same time its easy to say with the benefit of hindsight that this entire season is just going to be about evaluation (scheme, coaches, players, etc) but at the start of the season nobody would’ve been expecting a 0-7 start.

      Hell, even Grant predicted 9 wins. Any Given Sunday, right? I’m sure the players, back in Septmeber, would’ve had a great deal of hope for the season regardless of the franchise’s long-term vision. A few pundits were even muttering about potential playoff aspirations.

      I think that’s why they have been giving it 110% over the course of the first 6 games. Nobody had previously criticised the niners for lack of effort. Until Sunday – right after Shanahan’s little history lesson. They have gone from being the hardest-fighting losing team to a roll-over-and-die attitude in the space of 1 week. Why?

      1. My name must be Nobody then. With the plan they had in place I didn’t expect many wins at all. In fact I was hoping for that. To carry out their plan required them to sacrifice wins this season. It’s much like the preseason where development and player evaluation takes precedence over wins. In fact I was surprised that they were in as many games as they ended up being in. We also must remember that they have had key injuries and for a rebuilding team injuries have a much greater effect on wins and loses than they would for a regular team.

    2. Anyone that wants to stay in the NFL. Getting cut from this talent lacking team isn’t long for the league.
      Think of it like the bottom teams in the premier league. Finishing too low in the standings means the team gets relegated and is no longer in the league. They don’t have an issue with effort.

      1. That said, The biggest issue will be with the vets like Staley and Garcon. They know they can get jobs elsewhere… if they lose interest then you questions would be justified.

  5. The frustration has to boil over somewhere and it is happening among a few players.
    But I would rather this takes place among players than what I see going on in Seattle with players/coaches issues.

    Being 0-7 should cause frustration and anger and for many of these players it should be considered that they came from successful and winning college programs. So this hurts, especially coming off a 2-14 campaign with players that were here last year.

    Also, the players are aware that they are playing for a roster spot for next season.
    Yup, there is every reason for the frustration and the coaching staff needs to be wise in managing it.

    1. I agree Aes. I could care less if tempers flair to be honest. In a way I think it helps separate the wheat from the chaff. I can’t be certain but I think Ray Ray actually made Bowman look worse than he was by being out of position.
      It might sound strange but if the niners can’t win the SB, I will root for players like Bow and Smith to get one.

      1. I actually liked Shanahans response about those outbursts. He pointed out the elephant in the room. That some players focus their frustrations into a show that is supposed to show how much they care. Hey, focus that frustration and anger into your play on the field ( like water boy ). The problem is that certain behavior is rationalized and justified when it is actually destructive and more akin to a temper tantrum or posturing . Good for him.

  6. Grant what’s your top 5 QB listing for the draft?

    Here’s where I’m at:

    Allen
    Mayfield
    Thorson
    Rosen
    Falk

    Thorson could end up being the best of the bunch.

        1. I watched Western Kentucky’s Mike White last week, and came away impressed. It’s all shotgun offense, but he checks a lot of boxes in my mind….

    1. I have no idea why anyone would rank Rosen 4th, never mind behind a kid from Northwestern with more picks than TD passes, but to each his own. Thorson will be a day 3 pick if he even declares at this point imo.

      1. A lot of people had no idea why I ranked Prescott #2 and Mahommes #1 in the Fall before their respective drafts but now they do.

        1. Mahommes hasn’t done anything yet and a lot of people had him ranked highly but good call on Prescott. Still doesn’t change the fact you are severely overrating Thorson and to a lesser extent Allen and Mayfield imo.

          1. My point though is that when I said they were ranked as such was when they were considered late second to early third day prospects.

            1. I get it, but I think you are trying too hard to find the diamond in the rough here. Thorson has done nothing to deserve the rating you are giving him. Allen while a great physical specimen, has not shown the accuracy needed to be worthy of the top QB ranking in the class. I’m on the fence with Mayfield. He is a great College QB in that system, but his size and the fact he’s never played in anything resembling what he will need to do in the pros is tough to overlook. The intangibles are through the roof though so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him have success in the pros.

    2. Next year’s draft class should be very good. It has some solid o lineman, edge rushers, corners, and running backs.
      My favorite player right now is Chubb.
      This is part of the reason I’m higher on Cousins a FA signing ( not if he’s franchised) I don’t like the qbs in the class but love the other position groups.

  7. Fighting ,is intolerable .
    Tightening a teammate up is.
    And players never fight with coaches , period .

    How many players has played in every game since starting .
    How many rookies have been injured in the first round .

    What Thomas has shown ,is flat out durability , and a couple of good games .

    Is there another defensive player that has as many snaps ,as Thomas.( 1st round )

    Looks like he will be improving , only player comparable is BB.
    Going to be a good durable player,and his technical skills will come . But he is always on the field. A bust ,far from it .

    His speech (KS) made is part of him finding out who really wants to play , here ,or elsewhere . Getting it told straight to you ,and finding out where you stand as a player ,is a Master card moment. Priceless.
    No think we will get our butts beat in Philly . Cause there way better than Dallas .

    Like the column Grant.

  8. Agree with most of you , offensive linemen should be the priority.
    Without it being fixed, the rest is a guessing game .

    Just like this year .

  9. Niner frustration is a product of the coaching. KS has shown his anger on the side line, so they take after him.
    .
    Robinson is a crybaby. They should tell him to shut up and stop talking smack. When a team is 0-7, there should be NO bravado. He cannot back up his words, so he just sounds like a whiney brat, who gets slapped down by a bully.
    .
    Sure, they all have big egos, but the best thing to do is keep quiet, and work extremely hard to win. Let his play on the field do the talking. Too bad he has shown to be toasty.
    .
    In fact, I hope the Niners forbid all the players to wear face black, until they win a couple games. If they think it helps them win, they are delusional, and they need to concentrate on more important things. Wasting time on face black just means they are not thinking about what they need to do to win. When a team smears black all over their face and wins, it looks cool. When they are on a 7 game losing streak, it looks like clown paint.
    .
    They should also ditch the gloves. It has not made them better, and the Niners in the 80’s would call them sissies for thinking that gloves make them better players. If they think gloves make them hold onto the ball better, they should remember they fumbled 3 times last game. Wearing gloves has not stopped them from dropping the ball.
    .
    Finally, I hope the Niners ditch the black unis. They should go old school and bring back what they wore during the Glory Years. Black is OK for the Raiders, Steelers and Saints. Niners need to be red and gold. Since they are wasting time designing uniforms, maybe they should create a uniform that looks like Iron Man, instead of Darth Vader.

  10. Niners started the year with Staley, Beadles, Kilgore, Fusco and Brown. Other than Fusco, it was the same as last season..
    .
    Sure, continuity is fine if it helps the O line develop cohesion, but last game amply showed their weaknesses.
    .
    Niners need to mix things up. Make it a meritocracy. They should rotate in players until they find the best fit.
    .
    I said in the preseason, that they should trade Staley to a playoff bound team. It would reward him for his stellar service, and the Niners could get a second or third round pick for him. After his most recent play, I imagine the Niners would settle for a 5th or 6th round pick for him. The LT needs to be the best player on the line, and he cannot whiff because the DE will clock the QB and make him fumble.
    .
    I want to see Gilliam and Magnussen play. Maybe replace Fusco with Beadles.

    1. Oh… and who was it hat argued the line would be much improved against me?
      I will give you that Garnett is gone and it wasn’t expected to be for the season. So ill call it a wash.
      Even so it scares me to death that he barely graded out better than Beadles in pass pro. Thanks again Baalke.

      1. Considering they played so poorly last season, I had high hopes that the offseason moves would improve the O line this year. It is all relative. Last season they graded out to be 30th. This season, other than last game, they were decent for the most part.

      2. And the replacements brought in were really not much better than those that were here. Worst part is they knew this at camp! They could have done something back then…

  11. Cant blame the players for getting frustrated from the results of their lost record. I too will be yelling like a mad dog to anyone, Shanahan is a rookie coach, most of these rookie coaches will go through times like what he is going through now, but he is smart and young, he will adjust. Just focus on building a solid OL and it will take care of the rest. OL will give the rookie quarterback comfort zone, he is a rookie but if you give him enough time less pressure he will get better and the right plays inserted by the Shanahan. Defense will feedback from the OL and inspiration will trickledown to the DB,s, special team and to the rest of the team. This is how I saw it from the days of Bill Walsh era. It was ball control plays and plus a little bit of his savvy on making the players relax like; being a hotel bell boy, boxer and acting like a class teacher. These were Walsh’s ways to bond all the players like a family…. Good luck niners im with you 100 percent. :)

    1. Cutting Bowman unceremoniously was not a good way to show they value the players, or consider veteran leadership important. Walsh may have moved on from players, but he had a replacement in place before he did that, Foster cannot stay on the field.

        1. I believe they tried and since they could get almost nothing decided to release him so that he could pick his own team. I think they were offered a seventh rounder but it was a team Bowman didn’t want to go to.

          1. After how he played against the Chiefs, he deserved at least a 3rd or 4th round pick.
            .
            Sure, they let him go to a team of his choice, but Bowman said that he would accept a lesser role, but they had moved past him, and did not consider veteran leadership to be important. Now they have players imploding on the side lines.

            1. He wasn’t going to be around next year any way and so it’s better they let him go so see what they got. No matter what they say they are not going for wins. It serves their purpose in that they can experiment and also get high draft picks.

              1. I just heard the interview with KS and Lynch. THEY said that Bowman offered to accept that reduced role, but they decided to move on. Sure, they let him go so he could sign with the team of his choice, but they never should have released him. And certainly not in such a ham handed way. They released Bowman, the defense gives up 500 yards, and players are yelling at each other.
                .
                I am bitter, because it keeps happening. Bowman had front row seats to the JH, Tomsula, Chip and Kaep travesty, and knew he was next. There was a reason why he did not pick up the phone that day. He knew their MO.
                .
                Bowman has too much class to dish dirt on them, and they did allow him to choose his next team, so he should be grateful for that. However, they denigrated his football skills, and did not show enough respect for a team leader. In hindsight, they should have been more diplomatic, and given him a pat on the back instead of the alternative. In the end, the result was the Cowboy game. Last season, when Bowman went down, the run defense was horrific. History tends to repeat itself.
                .
                I bet he was expecting to be cut on the team bus. That is another Jed York special.

        2. Then Bowman, with 3 days of studying the playbook, got the green dot and directed the defense, getting 11 tackles. That too, was mind blowing.

      1. They didnt cut him unceremoniously. Bowman wasn’t happy with his role and essentially asked for a trade. The niners then couldn’t find a trade partner that Bowman wanted to go to (and realistically didn’t get offered much.) Bowman then said he would tow the company line so to speak but Lynch stated he thought that when 1 foot is already out the door it would be best for everyone if they just moved on.
        So rather than take a low offer for him (5th through 7th rounder most likely) they released him out of appreciation for what he had given them. The smart business move would have been to trade him and get a pick regardless.
        Lynch has not been like Baalke and spoke about it very candidly, he also has his personal experience to draw from. Comparing Lynch to Baalke does him a major disservice. Especially when he has been very open and honest to the media, the fans and his players.

  12. KS sounds like he is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
    .
    He should admit that he blew it on his QB evaluations. He has every expectation to be winless halfway through the season, and he has let his ego and emotions cloud his judgement.
    .
    Remember his excuse why he did not want a QB with a different skillset than Hoyer? He thought it would not be worth his while to have 2 different QBs with different skillsets, and could not be bothered trying coaching them. Too bad Hoyer sucked, so I am glad the other QB has different skillsets than him. Now he is throwing a green rookie into the breach, and like the Cowboy game, CJB will be chewed up and spit out. CJB is getting the Alex Smith treatment, when it would be better to let him have the Aaron Rodgers treatment.
    .
    With 62 mil in cap space, there is no reason why they do not sign a FA QB, unless they are throwing in the towel and intentionally tanking so they can be rewarded with a high draft position.
    .
    I thought Lynch wanted to win a damn game.

    1. “He should admit that he blew it on his QB evaluations. ”
      Hoyer, was not brought in to be “the guy”, everyone knows this, he was brought in to be a place holder. Kyle may not even have his qb yet… given that he didn’t want to trade up for Beatherd.

      Realistically speaking, there is only 1 guy that Kyle could definitively say would be better than Hoyer. Rookie Desaun Watson. The other options available to him were Cutler, Glennon, Osweiler, Fitzpatrick, Smith, Foles, Barkley, CK.
      None of whom have proven to be better options at this point.

      1. No, KS fully expected Hoyer to play all season and gave him the job with no competition.
        .
        Now he is rolling with CJB, the guy he gave up a draft choice so they could move into the third round to get.
        .
        Too bad CJB is getting the Alex treatment. I suppose they will continue to force him to be only a pocket passer, and he will get bludgeoned by that ferocious Eagle pass rush. Maybe you are cold hearted, but I felt sorry for CJB after that 5th sack.
        .
        Kaep would at least give the Niners a chance. Even with the O line, he would be agile and elusive, and could have possibly used his legs more as a dual threat, and actually have won some games.
        .
        Now they are looking at 0-8, and the only 2 games that might be victories are the Cards and Giants. Cards have Gabbert and the Giants lost OBJ.
        .
        It sucks to have another Bay Area team implode. First, the Giants, now, the Niners. Oh well, I will still be a die hard faithful, and be patient.
        .
        Some day, they may become relevant again. Maybe when they actually try to win. Kaep gives them the best chance to win, because I will believe Pete Carroll, who said Kaep could lead his team to championships. I will believe Cam, Brady, Rodgers over all of his detractors. I will believe Reid, Sherman and Michael Bennett when they say Kaep is being blackballed.

        1. Yeah, naming Hoyer the starter totally means that Hoyer was his guy and Shanahan thought he could lead them to a superbowl. :/

          “Now he is rolling with CJB, the guy he gave up a draft choice so they could move into the third round to get.”
          No, Lynch gave up the draft pick to move up, Kyle didn’t think they needed to trade up for him and stated so. Kyle liked Beatherd but that doesn’t mean he thinks he is the best option.

          As to Kaep it took him 10 games to get a win… and he couldn’t even lead the offense to score as much as it did under Gabbert. Is Gabbert a winner? I mean the offense scored points per game with him at qb than with Kaep, and it didn’t take him 10 games to get a win.

  13. Grant,

    We’re in trouble if 1st Rd draft picks Reuben Foster, Buckner and Thomas can’t be superior talents.

    It feels like the Wiley E. Coyote effect…Back to the drawing board every year.

    1. Going to have to push Foster to the outside or let him play strong safety–he can’t shed blockers to make the tackle.

      Get Fangio in here. Armstead, Buckner and Thomas are who NFL analysts thought they were:

      1. Armstead–fits a 3/4 defense
      2. Buckner — fits a 3/4 defense
      3. Thomas–“too small to be a Top 10 pick, will be engulfed by NFL sized linmen,

      “A general manger of a NFC playoff team said Thomas should go in the top 24 picks, but they didn’t have him as a high first-rounder. Another AFC playoff team graded him as a late first-round pick. The issue that is coming up the most with Thomas is that many teams feel he has tweener size with listed numbers of 6-foot-3, 273-pounds.”

      https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/3/3/14790452/nfl-execs-solomon-thomas-may-not-be-worth-top-10-pick

    2. And don’t forget, Buckner and Armstead were drafted by Baalke as 3/4 D-Linemen.

      We’re running a 4/3….Give Vic Fangio a contract before the Draft so we don’t repeat the Solomon Thomas Top 5 pick.

    3. Buckner is a superior talent and has been dominant he can play in a 3-4 or 4-3.
      Armstead, well he has been a bust so far… in fact I think Thomas is already better than him… which doesnt say much.

  14. I’m thoroughly enjoying this twitter argument Grant is having with Donte Stallworth. It’s laugh out loud funny to read GC arguing he is right and a former player telling him he is flat out wrong. Great stuff.

  15. The new regime is only halfway though the first season of a total rebuilding process, yet people are evaluating how effective they have been. Striking especially since they ( critics ) seem to be clueless in respect to Shanahan and Lynch’s long term objectives.

  16. Willtalksays:

    Let’s talk, willtalk….How about two gap vs. one gap tech, since that’s what Buckner and Armstead were originally drafted for (ie, two gap ends in a 3/4).

    The problem here is that modern offenses are built to spread out the D-Linemen so aren’t using a base alignment as much as in the past, so you’re witnessing slow footed 3/4 D-Linemen being spread out.

    1. Also, factoring in that it’s a passing league so the offensive formations mostly rely on sub packages or a sort of nickel derivative–meaning more passing…..But as behind the times Baalke continuously moaned: “Nobody will run on us, you’ve got to be able to stop the run.”

      We’ll, Trent, nobody’s trying to run on you….They are trying to kill you in 2 plays. Or haven’t you heard, Trent, it’s a passing league ?

      Thanks, Trent. You just keep giving, even on your supposed strong suit, Defense.

      1. Tom D. I am not disagreeing with you about Baalke at all. Just that you might try to salvage what you have by giving them a try in the present system . I will admit that I am not that savy about specific football schemes. I will leave that to people who know better than I (which is mostly everyone lol. ) I try to stick to and post about things I am good at. I have always been good at recognizing patterns.

      2. “We’ll, Trent, nobody’s trying to run on you….They are trying to kill you in 2 plays. Or haven’t you heard, Trent, it’s a passing league ?”
        I’m guessing you didn’t watch the 49ers last season? Not being able to stop the run killed the 49ers.

        1. It’s a passing league. But if you’re bad enough against the run, coaches will run it down your throat. But as long as you’re even low-average against the run, you’re good enough.

  17. Trade deadline is fast approaching……..

    Staley to Phi to replace Peters (?)
    – take a look at Bryant’s price tag, Pit – 49ers need a big wr

    It would be refreshing if everyone bitching about how bad they believe the 49ers are would instead begin offering possible solutions- it has been said a million times, move on………… we thankfully don’t hear of Harbaugh too much, and it would be nice if the Kaep talk went away entirely as well.

    I don’t see much out there in FA next season though.

    I am surprised they haven’t found much on other teams practice squads too.

    1. Well there are always those that are released as cost cutting measures that might be signed. That seems to happen every season.

  18. DT ARIK ARMSTEAD, OREGON,
    By NFL.com

    WEAKNESSES Power-based pass rush with very little production to show for it over his time at Oregon. Plays tall as pass rusher and doesn’t use his hands to gain consistent advantages. Has no reliable counter moves when rush stalls.

    Walter Football:

    If you’re looking for big production from Armstead, you’re not going to find it. The sophomore totaled 15 tackles with 2.5 tackles for a loss and a sack in 2014.

    TomD’s Take: It is what it is, a 3/4 end miscast in a 4/3 defense, another Baalke pick that keeps on giving.

  19. Walter Football, 2018 NFL Draft:

    QB–Josh Allen, Wyoming:

    Allen is dripping with physical talent. He has a cannon for an arm, letting him hurt teams downfield. Routinely, you see Allen roll out of the pocket to loft in a well-placed downfield bomb to a receiver. Allen throws a very good deep ball and is able to throw receivers open with his powerful arm. Throwing on the run is an asset for Allen as he uses his size and athletic ability to dodge pass-rushers to get find time to distribute the ball downfield. Allen also is willing to make tough throws and isn’t too conservative with his decision-making

    Along with his arm, Allen is dangerous with his feet. He has speed to pick up yards on the ground with the size to bounce off defenders. Allen is an imposing runner and is a dangerous threat in the red zone as a run/pass threat.

    TomD’s Take: Perfect for Shanahan…In the NFL, not every play is open…Nice to have a QB able to move the chains with a scramble in the 4th Qtr. of a close game.

    1. Can’t miss prospect here Niners. Better get him while you can. PS. Keeps plays alive enough to hurt the defense…Last checked, isn’t that in the definition of WCO QB’s job ?

      Reminds me of all 3 QB:

      1. Joe Montana–Ability to keep plays alive long enough to make defenses pay.
      2. Dan Marino–1st QB since Green Bay’s Aaron Rodgers to have that wrist only flick w/o a full wind up to get ball out quickly–the WCO calls for quick releases on 3 step drops.
      3. Alex Smith–6’5″ but faster and stronger at 235 Lbs—4.59/40 yd dash

      1. I couldn’t disagree more. Allen is extremely impressive physically but he’s nowhere near the player he is being hyped to be. He will be over drafted by somebody. I doubt it will be the 9ers though. Shanahan won’t draft somebody who isn’t accurate.

  20. Niners sign Datone Jones and Leon Hall. Release Paulson and Xavier Cooper. Does the release of Paulson mean that Juice is back?

        1. Exactly kt! Has Juice been of any offensive value, save as a blocker? We could have gotten a lead blocker for less. This is supposed to be an Offensive Weapon! Not impressive! Won’t make the pro bowl this year. Will anyone on our team?

  21. I agree that Josh Allen is not really nfl ready. He might be this draft’s Paxton Lynch. I think Two bargains of the draft at qb are Logan Woodside and Nick Stevens.

      1. Our draft isn’t looking so hot right now. Of course it’s too soon.

        Thomas – Inconsistent
        Foster – Oft injured
        Witherspoon – Nothing special

        1. So far I’m inclined to agree with your take 80. I think the first three picks have been less than stellar whether in terms of production, fit or capacity. The team kind of needed some really solid players and so far there is nothing that jumps out and says, wow!

          Even the offensive players have not been special. It’s hard to judge Beathard given the line, though I do like him and Kittle.

          Not as impressed as Grant is Bolden or Breida. I think Bolden isn’t on the field for a reason and Breida doesn’t strike me as an every down back who can carry the load (Like Hyde).

    1. Nope, sorry, never gunna happen.
      .
      Washington will slap the franchise tag on him, and try to force the Niners into giving up a couple first round picks.
      .
      Niners are not brain dead and will keep all their picks because they have so many needs. The shrewdest move would be for them to trade back, and still get the O lineman and QB they coveted.
      .
      Washington will swallow the high cost because they have no other QB option. I expect Snyder to be smart and choose a franchise QB over a suit, so he will kick Bruce Allen into the gutter where he belongs, especially since the division will probably be won by the Eagles and the wild card is in doubt.
      .
      Cousins is just assuring himself that 35 mil, by forcing Washington to pay top dollar. Yes, KS would want Cousins if he is available, but Washington wants Cousins, too. They probably will offer him a long term deal, which is what they should have done a long time ago.

      1. “I expect Snyder to be smart…”

        I disagree. Assuming the Skins miss the playoffs, Snyder and Allen would once again give Kirk (Kurt) an insulting offer.

        Tagging him and trying to force us to trade for him wouldn’t work, as you said. Then they would have to pay 34 million to a one year rental.

        1. I don’t think Cousins is coming. If he is telling people privately he wants to reunite with KS why does it make the news? Who does it benefit? Not KS who will likely need to pay more for his services, nor Washington, so I guess Cousins himself is leaking this information to drive up his price. He’s been doing that for sometime.

          He’s happy to be paid mega bucks in Washington and he is unlikely to be contending in SF. Snyder has deep pockets and will use them. SF does too but he would make less given taxes and everything else out west, without the prospect of improving his winning or health(have you seen our OL?). That is the reality. Anyone can see that. Given these set of circumstances, why would he leave the Redskins? If another team offers him more money, he may go there, but I think he’s just trying to incite competition where there might not be any.

          1. Too much bad blood from both sides. This article describes the first snub by Snyder/Allen and maybe the beginning of Kirk’s like for the Shanahan’s. I don’t think Kirk would use KS as a bargaining chip after the Shanahan’s had his back against the people he hates.

            http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21121399/next-uneasy-marriage-kirk-cousins-redskins-nfl

            “Cousins was standing by his locker, receiving celebratory handshakes and backslaps from teammates, when Redskins owner Dan Snyder and team president Bruce Allen entered the room-and essentially breezed right past him. Snyder, according to a witness, patted Cousins on the shoulder and kept walking.”

            “When head coach Mike Shanahan heard what happened, he paid a visit to Snyder’s office. “Kirk is a strong guy, and he can handle it, but his teammates are pissed at you,” Shanahan says he told Snyder. “That’s not the way you handle things. If you do that, you run the risk of losing the football team in the future.”

            1. Again, this article seems very favorable to Cousins and designed to turn him into a noble victim while casting Allen and Snyder in an unfavorable light. My best friend is as diehard a Skins fan as there is but he hates Snyder and still believes that Cousins isn’t going anywhere.

              Additionally, he doesn’t see anything special in Cousins. Decent but not special. I think they have the same view of him as our fan base had of A. Smith. Oddly the flipped our script going with Cousins over RGIII while we went the other way.

              I know a lot of Washington fans who feel similar. They think Cousins isn’t going anywhere. He’s milking the stories. I’m inclined to agree.

              The short of it is, I don’t believe that Cousins is coming and if willtalk is right about the direction of the team it would be folly to sign him.

            2. 80, this league is known to treat players like pieces of meat.
              .
              Snyder did not want to stop because then Bruce Allen would have to stop, too, and Snyder did not want any unpleasantries. Snyder is backing BA, and he is lower than slime. That is why I said that after this season, Snyder will see how toxic BA is, and kick him to the gutter, like York did to Baalke.
              .
              No way in heck will Cousins stay if BA is there, and his rumor mill is going overtime. Washington is holding out for a king’s ransom, but Cousin’s ploy just cut them off at the knees. Niners just need to sit tight and let him fall in their lap without giving up a single draft pick. KS is perfectly willing to pay top dollar, while Washington want to pay as little as possible.
              .
              Of course, everything depends on how well Washington does. If they make the playoffs, They would be brain dead to part with their franchise QB. They have no replacement. It would be like the Niners passing on Kaep. No decent replacement, and now they may soon be 0-8. If Cousins does not lead his team to the playoffs, he will be in a weak position, and may choose Washington because at least his O line is giving him SOME protection.
              .
              You are right. Snyder seems like a dim bulb, and the insults are almost Trumpian. You just have to shake your head, and marvel at the audacity.

              1. Seb I’m glad to see Kaepernick has cashed in on his book deal. I guess he will need another source of income since his playing days are over.
                However, Ill still be waiting on that storm!

              2. Just wait, a storm is coming, and his grievance will expose all the nefarious actions of the owners. Kaep could win treble damages.

              3. He will need it Seb, cause no team will ever employ him now. He better hope that settlement takes care of him for life, cause he wont be throwing a football in the NFL ever again.

                To me, all this is, is a publicity stunt for him to make money. Coward.

              4. The real cowards are the ones terrified to even allow him to play. They are afraid Kaep would take the league by storm, again, so they want to keep Kaep off the field.
                .
                Instead, they should be assertive and confident that Kaep cannot play, so they should let him sign with a team, and hope he falls flat on his face.
                .
                I think the Niners are actually a bad place for Kaep to go. He should go to a team looking towards the playoffs. Teams that have good offensive weapons and a stout O line. Having a top 10 defense might also help. All they lack is a QB to get them over the top.
                .
                Teams like the Broncos, Bears, Jags. Teams like the Packers have Hundley, but he is not shining brightly. Cards may become desperate. With attrition, there will be more openings. It is not even halfway. Some team in the last quarter of the season will want to win so much, they will sign Kaep, so do not worry. Be happy.

            3. Cousins would already get a deal similar to Carr (around 27 mil) if he hit free agency. I bet Denver would be interested, Pitt too if Ben retires. Cleveland always needs a QB. Point is, A QB of his quality with 5+ good years left will have plenty of suitors. He doesn’t need to drive up his price.

              I’m not even sure he would sign with Washington if Snyder fired Allen and offered to make him the highest paid QB. He’s already demanded a trade. He saw how they treated McCloughan. He wants out.

              1. It’s also possible that this story was leaked by Snyder/Allen.

                This story makes Kirk look bad to Washington fans. Snyder/Allen started a very public smear campaign against McCloughan before they fired him.

                Why would Cousins leak this? It’s already well known that Kirk wants to play for KS. This new story makes him look like a bad soldier in the eyes of his teammates and the fans.

      2. When has Mr. Temper-Tantrum ever been smart? If it weren’t for Haslam in Cleveland, he’d be the worst owner in the NFL.

  22. Cousins telling folks he wants to hook up with KS is nothing more than a ploy to drive up the numbers on Wa…..no way they let him go without a kings ransom, move on already fellas.

    We couldn’t get nothing for Bow because everyone in the league saw him get benched mid game and figured there might be drama, everyone knew he was on the block hence we got no offers. Another butcher job by the brain trust…….bottom line he more than earned the right to finish this season a starter on a flipn 0-7 team, get real……this better play out well, cuz they are leaving allot to be second guessed. Name one thing about KS that has been overly impressive, I won’t hold my breathe waiting for a response…..

    1. someone needs to let Cousins know the 49ers don’t need him and his average QB skills…….

      Cousins is most overrated QB I have seen in a loooong time…..

      1. The 49ers would be lucky to have him and your comment makes no sense whatsoever. He’s been a top ten QB the past two years and is top 5 in the current season. He is playing this year with new WR’s, a TE who is always injured and is still putting up great numbers. The Redskins are not a good team overall. Cousins is the only reason they are competitive most weeks.

    2. I think you and I are on the same page on Bow and KS and FO. So far I’m not overly impressed and the moves they have made have made me question their decision making process. I don’t think that they necessarily get a free pass because they are “geniuses” ( so was Baalke until…) and new coaches. I know what they are trying to do but it seems like they are going about it backwards in many ways.

      Additionally, Shanahan has struck me as bit full of himself. As of yet he’s been a good X and O guy but I don’t think that makes him a great coach.

      Personally, I would have liked to have seen what he could do with a team at his helm prior to coming here. The good ones fail at their first gig generally too (Bilichick, Carroll).

      1. 3 years away East. That’s how long it will take to get this back on track. 2 more drafts and 2 more free agency periods to fill plenty of holes.

        The major disappointment to me this year was they over estimated how good this secondary was. Robinson and Johnson are not very good. Now, on the flip side, Tartt and Ward have been a pleasant surprise.

        So now it looks like they have to address the following in priority sequence:
        1. QB
        2.Oline
        3. Pass rush (OLB)
        4.ILB
        5.WR
        That’s a lot work!

      2. My point is that many of the same needs we had last year. What holes where filled in this year 1? You clear and lay a foundation. I don’t see even footings.

        1. I agree with that. They missed on their first 2 round picks in Thomas and Foster. They over valued them. If those 2 picks were legit and Smith was healthy, you could say the front seven was legit.
          Signing Dummervil and letting Brooks and Bowman go, looks to be a mistake.

          The secondary got a bonus in seeing Tartt and Ward as the safeties moving forward but took a huge step back in seeing Robinson and Johnson as not quality corners.

          I said earlier in the week, this year is a glorified identification camp. Its a complete rebuild and year one to date, has shown no significant improvement or a draft pick we can be excited about.

  23. To everyone thinking we should of grabbed a QB ,( in the draft),. Playing behind this line , this year . Your a joke . All that would of done was get the rookie beat up , and scrambled him , whoever they picked .

    Thomas ,who Everyone is saying is a bust ,so to speak . Are dumb . Has there been a player in the 1st round that has played more snaps than him , it’s called durability. They, the players have to be out there on the field , to learn .

    Everyone here needs to look at the fact that the offensive, and defensive schemes are completely different , hence the players have to change , to the scheme.

    And please leave the kapernick talk out of it , he is not coming back,he is not smart enough to run this system, nor does the team ,or the current coaching staff think he can . No really, period.

    From the KS speech , you think he is finding out who wants to play, or who wants out , or just a paycheck.

    JJ , in Dallas did something similar, remember, Zack Thomas , who did he replace . ( ie ,they were 1-15,that year )
    Another coach that did similar things ,( speeches) was bill parcells. He would come out and literally threaten his players . Cause if you don’t want to play,the bench is right over there. Walsh wouldn’t even waste his time ,he would pull you , and put someone in that wanted to play.

    Everyone is being really critical of shanny , did we all forget that we knew how bad the last couple of drafts went , did we forget ,the coaching carousel that has happened here for the last 5 years. This is a rebuilding process, nothing easy about it .

    Wondering would you be so critical if it were you . Would you go quick fix, or build something to last . Is he intentionally loosing ,no. But I think he is intentionally evaluating , his players .

    Take a breath Everyone , look at what’s really transpired .
    It’s called the transition . And we in the middle of it.

    I hope we win 2 games , all that thought we’d win more . ( I had 5 picked in our poll) Well I hope you open your eyes, pull your head out of the sand , or remove it from being stuck up some arse . Enjoy the growth we are seeing from certain players , cause I’m betting Everyone will see the improvement , they feel necessary ,next year. After all , Rome wasn’t built in a day . And no dynasty was either .

    1. We did grab a QB in the draft. He started this past weekend and had the most yards by a starting rookie in franchise history. He also got clobbered.

      1. +1 CJ had a decent/good game considering he had cow dung in his face all game long. I doesn’t mean I am sold on the guy only time will tell for that.

          1. I agree that we have to give him time….he has the second best completion % behind Deshaun Watson. I know it is a small sample, but he is easily better than guys like Kizer. So seems promising.

    2. ‘All that would have done was get the rookie beat up, and scrambled him, whoever they picked.’ ( CJB).
      .
      Exactly….
      .
      Demanding a player fit the scheme is obtuse. A coach should be skilled enough to scheme to a players strengths, not expose his weaknesses. Denigrating a black player’s intelligence is par for the course, but so wrong. Kaep may be too smart to come back to an organization run by Jed. Lynch is his lap dog, and I knew all the time why he was touting Paraag. Lynch was sending the message that Jed prefers a suit over a player.
      .
      Yes, KS has intentionally been evaluating his players, and he has been consistently wrong. Many of the cut players have found jobs. His whole handling of the QB system is tragic. He did not fool me when he declared Hoyer the starter without any competition. Hoyer took every first string snap, and he was a practice warrior. Then Tarzan went on the field and turned into Jane. Hoyer pulled a Gabbert.
      .
      We are presently looking at a winless team for the rest of the year. It is no coincidence that once they threw away Bowman, they gave up 500 yards. Sending out a raw rookie to be chewed up and spit out, is almost unfair against the Eagles. I hope he makes it to halftime. Then we will see Hoyer, and more of the same.
      .
      I am fearful that the Niners are turning into the Browns of the west. I see little hope this season, and little progress for the future. Since you are into quaint sayings, here are a few others. Do not lay a foundation upon quicksand. You need to drain the swamp before building the foundation. Niners will continue to roll that rock. A Sisyphean task. It all starts at the top.

      1. Think Shanny’s effort can overcome the Browns ineptitude for the # 1 ?

        I hope so……Go Shanny/Lycnch ! Keep cleaning house, and don’t be afraid to spread some air freshener around on those last Baalke players on the roster.

      2. Nonsense. Montana would have failed in the traditional late-70s scheme as he didn’t have the giant arm that was required. Jerome Bettis would fail in the outside zone running scheme because he was too slow for it. Ronnie Lott was never a great mon-cover guy, his forte was playing off, anticipation and the big hit (in short, more like a safety).

        And so it goes. Player-after-player, year-after-year.

    1. I think its really hard to say after 2 games. You could say the oline has not given him any help and neither has his play makers.
      On the other side, his release is slow, he is not the most dynamic passer or runner. Id like him to become the future so we can address other areas next year but I guess that happens in seeing him over the next 9 games.

      Kyle Shanahan has certainly hitched his wagon to him so that is a big endorsement that hopefully works. Otherwise, now we are spending a high pick or lots of cap money on a guy like Cousins who I am not sold on.

      1. “You could say the oline has not given him any help….”

        I wonder if it was the O-line or his pass protection calls that allowed the pressure. Granted the O-line is not our strong suit but it hasn’t looked that bad till this game.

        “Otherwise, now we are spending a high pick or lots of cap money on a guy like Cousins who I am not sold on.”

        I agree with that I would prefer to abstain with Cousins for the same reasons. I don’t think the Redskins let him go if he is as good as some say, You don’t let franchise QB’s walk so if you let him walk then one has to wonder how good he really is.

        1. I think moving forward, every team is going to blitz CJB till the cows come home. Until the interior of oline shows it can hold up, there will be relentless pressure.
          After watching Philly on MNF, that defense is angry. It could be another 40 burger, in fact, I’m predicting another blowout.

          1. Joe Montana once self-effacingly stated, “I’m just the mailman, getting the mail to my playmakers,” they’re the heroes of this offense.

            TomD’s Take: If CJB can just be the mailman, nothing special, it allows Shanny//Lynch to use the 2018 draft to shore up more areas than redrafting the QB position.
            Especially if Shanny feels a top 10 pick isn’t right this year for a QB.

            1. A trade down garnering additional picks by someone who’s mesmerized by QB’s, Allen or Mayfield.
            2. Drafing can’t miss and college football’s best pass rusher, according to most analysts, LSU’s, Arden Key.
            3. Or just standing pat .

            Over the years, esp. those Baalke years, it’s been pretty much proven that trading for more draft picks hasn’t worked so well, so maybe drafting a can’t miss player like key is the solution…At least we’d have one bonafide star.

              1. Prime + 1.

                Forgot about him, Prime…..Barkley as of now is College football’s # 1 can’t miss NFL player (it’s still early though).

              2. Would the 49ers take him 1st or 2nd overall? I think the Browns want him if he is there ahead of the 49ers.

              3. Why not? This guy looks to have everything you want in a RB.
                You look back to this past draft, Id say Fournette was the best prospect taken in the top 5.

              4. Because the position isn’t valued enough to use the top pick on. Elliot and Fournette were a couple of the best College RB’s in forever and neither went #1 overall. RB’s can be found later in the draft and many wind up producing like 1st round picks. Just look at Hunt for KC or Howard for the Bears. Both are top 5 in rushing and were drafted later. The #1 pick has to be a cornerstone franchise changer which is why it usually a QB or pass rusher.

              5. Because the position isn’t valued enough to use the top pick on.

                As an owner, if my GM drafted a running back #1, he’d receive his pink slip within the hour!

              6. Says the guy who said Kizer was the best QB in the draft last year.

                You have no draft say since the King has stunk

              7. how about Ricky Williams and Mike “car warranty’ Ditka?
                Bryce Love possible higher round pick by KS– but highest draft capital would go to:
                G, C, QB, LB, T, DB
                my $$ still on CJ as KS’ guy thru next year– assuming he stays upright and plays competently– which I say he is doing so– despite opposition’s occupations of his side of LOS…
                vs. DAL– 58% pass, 46% 3rd down eff., and 23 (vs. 27) 1st downs…
                also– team efforts seem stronger on away vs. home games, easier keeping guys focused cause they’re together 24/7 on road?
                And, just maybe Wentz gets face-full of someone Saleh can dial in with PHI LT issue, this is Saleh’s chance for redemption– or further disgrace– based on how much his crew can trow at Wentz– while keeping from getting burned by doing so.

  24. One element of the CBA threshold Kap may be able to meet in his collusion lawsuit vs the NFL is:

    According to the CBA, NFL teams, coaches, agents, owners, and executives are not permitted to come to any agreement, “expressed or implied,” to restrict or limit a team’s decision-making when it comes to contract negotiations, offer sheets for restricted free agents, contract offers, or terms or conditions of employment.

    Update on No. of teams to prove collusion: Many feel that # is two teams. In actuality it’s one team + the NFL (as an entity itself) to prove collusion.

    NFLPA

  25. CJB is a 3rd round pick , gives us hope , but to shoot down Thomas is stupid . He at the least has been serviceable . I agree with most of you ,( hope CJB) is our future.
    No Seb ,you don’t change what you were hired to do ,( with QB) to get a win.or change the scheme that your trying to instill .

    This is a long haul , to get to were we as fans expect . Before you get big ,you have to grow .

    Could you imagine the flack that shanny would be getting ,if he drafted a first round QB ,with this offensive line . CJB will improve . If he survives this year .

    We have got guys that are showing up , maybe not to the expectation of fans . But shanny looks like he has some of his dad in him ,and his teachings .
    We’re did old man shanny learn from ?, That’s right Walsh . When his son ( our Coach was shagging balls ) think he was paying attention , well take a look at Atlanta , how good are they without him .
    In Shanny’s defense , both cousins,( who he picked),Ryan ,we’re way better when he was there with them . Proof of that, a blind man can see.

    So much of this team needed to be addressed , to even put a team out there . And we have all talked about how much the roster has turned over .

    Time , will get them back on track. They are learning , both players and coaches. They will improve.

    There are lots of flaw’s to this team ,all of us make valid points,on players,play calls, coaches .

    All I can say is there will be more changes , some we will like, other’s not so much.

    Who knows maybe CJB , will act like Matt Ryan last year ,next year.

    But right now ,our Achilles heel is offensive line . By seasons end , it wouldn’t surprise me to see him( shanny/ lynch) to address the offensive line in the draft /fa. And go with CJB next year . Also get some players that want to play . Winners are built from the ground up , and if you look ,there is growth . They are all young ,and growing together .( Coaches included)

    Keep the faith . Love my 49ers . Now and forever .

    1. Look what happened to Luck and Smith. Crappy franchises drafted a QB at the top of the draft. Both QBs got killed and ended up with ****ed up shoulders because they took a beating. And that’s not even a new story. Plunkett was beaten to death in New England and San Francisco and never really lived up to his potential.

      And this is a funny little article written some time ago. It was true in the old days, it’s true now:

      HOW TO RUIN A QUARTERBACK

      Welcome to Chapter Four of Introduction To Destroying A Football Franchise. The first three chapters, “The Owner: The Joys of Petty Dictatorship,” “Front Offices Are For Losers,” and “The Head Coach As Drinking Buddy” laid the groundwork to create a truly diseased NFL franchise from the inside. This chapter, “How to Ruin A Quarterback,” is more outwardly focused, as the quarterback is the most publicly visible part of your football team.

      Remember, the quarterback is very dangerous. Even with an incompetent front office and a senile head coach, a good quarterback will be enough to win football games. Anyone can be the head coach provided they enjoy the same booze you do (see Chapter 3), but like it or not, your quarterback will probably be a blue-chip, hot shot college prospect with tangible skills and a deep and burning desire to win. He may even possess a killer smile and a cleft chin. These things must be handled properly. You don’t want to find yourself forced to spend Scrooge McDuck money on your quarterback in an attempt to win a trophy you could have ordered online for less than the price of shipping costs.

      The public sees professional football teams as investments, but as an owner, you know that’s ridiculous. Never forget the desired result of all this, you will recall, is to spend as little as required, or if that’s not an option, to just mess things up because you’re rich and ruining other people’s good time is fun.

      http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/102806366/ruin-nfl-quarterback-robert-griffin-redskins-rgiii

    2. And a few more examples that most of us saw:

      Second, don’t expect a new quarterback to solve every offensive woe you have. The Texans used their first ever pick on David Carr, who was a very naturally talented quarterback. Over the next four years, Carr would get sacked roughly 70 times a season, and became so worried in the pocket, that he used to anticipate the sack before it ever happened. Carr was ruined by his surroundings. Don’t let hat happen to another first round pick. When you install a new quarterback, make sure he has some semblance of an offensive line. Give him a decent receiver to throw the football to. Give him a defense that can keep him in games. Give a kid some help.

      Next, you have to understand that almost no young quarterback goes into a season and starting throwing touchdowns. There has to be a certain level of understanding. That doesn’t mean that a team should start firing it’s offensive staff as scapegoats either. Alex Smith of the 49ers is a perfect case study in this. He’s had four different co-coordinators in four years: Mike McCarthy was hired by the Packers, Norv Turner was lured away by the Chargers, Jim Hostler was fired, and now Mike Martz will take over. A lot of his struggles before getting hurt this season can be traced to not knowing the offense. He’s never taken the leap because he never got comfortable in a system.

      http://armchairgm.wikia.com/wiki/Article:How_To_Ruin_A_Quarterback:_Why_The_Cardinals_are_Close_to_Setting_Their_Franchise_Back_Ten_Years

    3. Prime,

      I asked that question a few days ago after watching all of the 49er players getting beat.

      There’s so many holes, where do Niner fans feel we should go with our 1st pick ?

      There’s an old saying: “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.”

      So maybe the Niners should take Barkley as college footballs most can’t miss player.

      However, I feel Shanny’s so good a spotting RB’s that he’ll go after a Leo (Arden Key) or DB, then draft a RB later.

    4. 49er, good post.
      .
      It is easy to get down on a 0-7 team who just got shellacked by a hated rival. What hurt me most was the lack of effort to get a win for Dwight.
      .
      This losing sucks, but to put it into perspective, look at what Dwight Clark is going through. I could not be prouder of Eddie, and the way they all have given Dwight such love and support.
      .
      I also talked with a former resident who ran out of his house without his shoes, who said it sounded like a jet engine was roaring in his back yard, and who felt lucky to be alive. That puts this losing into perspective.
      .
      I will still root for the Niners to win, but also take care of what is important. Life goes on.

  26. A 2018 offseason blueprint to fix the San Francisco 49ers

    “One of the bonuses Lynch inherited as GM is the fact the 49ers are projected to have roughly $117 million in available cap space, including rollover from this year, according to Over the Cap.

    That’s a huge amount of money — money that could be spent on NFL-proven talent, and the Niners certainly lack talent on both sides of the ball.”

    Assuming the Niners get a top-five pick (they will), Lynch could elect to trade down — like he did this year — or land one of the highest-ranked prospects available. With a ton of needs on both sides of the ball, simply taking the best player is never a bad idea.

    .
    Over the past few seasons, the 49ers haven’t done so. Former general manager Trent Baalke was shy about using this approach, and Lynch seemed more intent on grabbing blue-chip players last offseason instead of true impact ones.

    Pick a position on San Francisco’s roster, and chances are the Niners need an upgrade there.

    Expect that to change in 2018.

    https://ninernoise.com/2017/10/25/49ers-2018-offseason-blueprint-fix-san-francisco/

  27. Five NFL trade deadline deals that should happen, but won’t

    The NFL’s trade deadline has moved back to Halloween this season, but that doesn’t mean many more players will be changing costumes

    The Redskins want to pound the ball between the tackles to complement Kirk Cousins’ big arm, but coach Jay Gruden has to be fed up with oft-injured Rob Kelley and mistake-filled rookie Samaje Perine

    49ers Trade RB Carlos Hyde for Redskins WR Terrelle Pryor

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-trade-deadline-rumors-deals-philip-rivers-carlos-hyde-martavis-bryant-49ers-patriots/cg3p3011htkv1gueixvt4j24b

  28. Beathard was under pressure on over 40-percent of his passes, with the Cowboys blitzing the rookie quarterback at a significantly higher rate than normal. He still managed to complete 22 of 38 passes for 235 yards and score one rushing touchdown in his first NFL start.

    1. For the past 2 weeks, the 49ers have begun taking stock of their roster by playing the younger gen. Niners.

      It’s possible that CJB shows enough that the Niners pass on QB this draft so they can shore up the O-Line and draft LSU’s , Arden Key, as their Leo, sprinkle in some DB’s and a LB either by FA or draft and year two of Shanny/Lycnch could be called a success.

      Shanny has shown the ability to utilize mid round talent for his backs and QB’s, so by shoring up the O-Line next season, he can further the development of CJB.

      After a few seasons of CJB a 3rd or 4th round QB talent like Farve would be chosen and have the luxury of developing behind a solid O-Line.

      Already there’s an article about San Francisco trading back late into the 1st round and taking Louisville’s, Lamar Jackson, to sit and develop behind CJB.

  29. The Philadelphia Eagles lost a key component of their offensive line on Monday. Left tackle Jason Peters went down with a knee injury, The leader on the offensive line, who is a nine-time Pro Bowl selection and three-time All-Pro.

    The Eagles might want to look into a trade to shore up the left side of the offensive line.

    Meanwhile, the 49ers are winless at 0-7 and have a veteran left tackle that is pretty darn good in Joe Staley. Eagles head coach Doug Pederson even praised Staley during a conference call with Bay Area media on Wednesday.

    “I haven’t really thought about what they would do,” Shanahan said (if offered a trade). If you want to offer the world, you always got to listen. You always try to think about what’s going to help your team and make your team better.
    http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/110734-kyle-shanahan-says-would-take-whole-trade-staley/

  30. Chris Biderman‏Verified account
    @ChrisBiderman
    2:12 PM – 25 Oct 2017
    Eric Reid opening practice doing positional drills with linebackers. #49ers

    TomD’s Take: Shows the state of our LB’s…Also, trade deadline looming.

  31. CBS 2018 Mock Draft:

    # 2. SF 49ers select: Mike McGlinchey, 6-7/310 , Left Tackle , Notre Dame

    Mike McGlinchey 2017 Preview Walter Football:

    McGlinchey could have been the closest thing to a franchise left tackle in the 2017 NFL Draft, but he decided to return for his senior year. McGlinchey would have been a safer pick than the two tackles that went in the first round in tackles: Denver’s Garett Bolles and New Orleans’ Ryan Ramczyk .

  32. Walter Football Top OT’s:

    1. Trey Adams, Washington Huskies
    Height: 6-7. Weight: 302.
    Projected 40 Time: 5.32.
    Projected Round (2018): 1.

    Adams has been solid for Washington.

    Adams was one of the top left tackles in the Pac-12 in 2016. The Huskies fielded a potent passing offense, and Adams did a nice job of keeping his quarterback, Jake Browning, protected. Adams was excellent against Alabama in the playoff game.

    TomD’s Take: too bad he tore his ACL, Walter Football: Vs AZ State Adams tore the ACL in his right knee

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