Report: Harbaugh works out QB Garoppolo

The day after reports surfaced that Colin Kaepernick wants a massive contract extension, Jim Harbaugh privately worked out Eastern Illinois quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, who projects to be a second-round pick.

What do you think this means? Do you think the 49ers are trying to put pressure on Kaepernick and to take away his leverage? Do you expect the 49ers will draft Garoppolo or another quarterback in the second round of the upcoming draft?

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  1. I think he’s been the guy Harbaugh has had his eye on since the Senior Bowl. If they do draft him, I expect him to improve on his footwork within the 3-5-7 foot drops, and develop into a pretty good pocket passer if he listens to the whisperings of Harbaugh….

    1. I agree. Harbaugh made Smith relevant. He has turned Kaepernick from raw talent into a pretty successful QB. At 18 million a year, I think SF is interested in Developing their next QB. Remember this organization is crafting itself after Kraft’s Patriots. There isn’t room in that model for an 18 million dollar QB.

      1. Yet Tom Brady? His number may not be big now but there were years when he was one of the top paid qbs. I’d say the niners are better molded after the seahawks in terms of qb pay and let’s hope it stays that way, no player is worth 18 plus…especially a qb who puts up average numbers.

        1. Tom Brady not only won Super Bowls but the patriots passing offense was never ranked 30th in the league. Truth be told Kaepernick isn’t worth more than 4-5 million a year if you believe in all his upside.
          As of March 2014 his on field accomplishments haven’t warranted 18 million dollars a year.

    2. I think Grant takes every opportunity to poke the Bear (49ers-Jimbo) & Hook everyone here.

      It’s Lazy & Boring on his part.

  2. When I jump into the front office’s mind..It looks a lil like pressure..Especially if kap’s negotiations are at a standstill goin into the draft..

    1. Which is two months from now..If they take a quarterback higher than a fourth round..with no kap deal..that gives a clearer picture

  3. Yes, the 49ers should draft a QB in the 2nd/3rd round of this draft.
    Nothing wrong with putting some pressure on Kaep by grooming another QB.

    1. Grant i’ve seen Fales live in games and practice and i saw Joe live and in games [from the sideline] and practice. I’ve even caught balls from Joe after he retired and let me tell you right here right now Fales arm is not as strong as Joes. The ball Fales throws reminds me so much of Ken Dorsey.

  4. Fortunately and unfortunately that’s what the new cba is all makes it easier to move on from rookies..or rookies that don’t pan out like u thought

  5. The work out came a day after a story broke. Hm, any chance the workout was scheduled a few days in advance? You know, before the story broke?
    This kid caught my eye at the Sr Bowl. How shocking would it be if somebody other than me noticed too? I thought Garoppolo would last past the second, but I may be wrong.

    1. You and I are on the same page on Garoppolo hightop – he’s the QB I like. Good footwork, good accuracy, quick release, decent arm strength.

          1. I don’t. I just look at film and what I see is a guy that floats the ball in there more than I’d like to see. Ken Dorsey looked outstanding in college too, and outplayed pretty much every QB his team was up against.

            1. Joe Montana floated the ball, too. Velocity is overrated. Ball placement and anticipation are more important.

              Dorsey’s arm was not as strong as Fales’ arm. And Dorsey played with Pro Bowlers — Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Kellen Winslow, Jeremy Shockey, Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee, etc.

              Fales played with nobodies, and he only played two years, and he had to play with two different coaches. He has more upside than people give him credit for. Once he gets some stability, he could really take off. He has the potential to complete 70 percent of his passes at his peak in the pros.

          2. Grant Cohn says “He has the potential to be able to complete 70 percent of his passes in the pros”.

            You mean with that short, quick passing offense they run at San Jose St?

          3. High velocity is overrated. You just need to have enough to get the ball to the receiver without allowing the DBs to get across and make a play on it. That is my concern with Fales though. I think he’ll struggle with deeper throws and some intermediate throws by allowing DBs (especially safeties playing half zones) to get across and make plays on the ball.

          4. @Scooter

            His lack of arm strength was on full display at the Senior Bowl, but they say he didn’t feel good….


              “David Fales had been outperformed by the other two passers during days one and two, but he put together an extremely accurate and crisp practice session on Wednesday. Finishing with the highest GPA for the entirety of the practice, it is worth noting that Fales was given just one throw during the team portion of practice. In regards to his arm strength, Fales doesn’t have a big arm but he still possesses enough arm to make the requisite throws. Fales impressed with his ability to place the ball away from the defensive back’s leverage, as well as his velocity control on a variety of dropback types. His weight transfer is a bit inefficient and deliberate, but Fales executed at a high level today during 7-on-7 drills. Being the most comfortable during footwork reset drills, Fales showcased plus footwork while progressing through his options today.”

          5. Grant Cohn says: “Fales made more NFL throws than Carr did in college”.

            He sure didn’t make many against Stanford. A better barometer than Fresno St. for the NFL…..

          6. Scooter i’ve been in love with Fales for 2 yrs. He made me alot of money in 2012. I have the same concern as you, i’m not sure he can throw all the NFL routes especially the deep out. If you ca’nt throw the deep out it allows defensive coaches to not have to defend 100% of the field. Now those here who say Montana did’nt have a strong arm are just plain old wrong. He did’nt have a cannon but he could throw all the NFL patterns including the deep out. Great college QB’s like Ken Dorsey and Kellen Moore could’nt throw all the patterns that you need to to play in the NFL and Fales reminds me a little of Moore and Dorsey. If Fales slips into the 6th or 7th rd or is’nt drafted i think that will answer the question of his arm.

          7. @Grant Cohn on Fales bounce back performance-

            Sometimes it takes three days for the antibiotics to work….

          8. Old Coach identified my concerns with regard to the Faleure to launch arm strength, while disposing of the weak arm myth of Mr. Montana. I thank you sir…

            1. Fales has a stronger arm than Montana had. Fales can make all of the NFL throws. You guys are too hung up on velocity. Bill Walsh wanted his QBs to throw soft, catchable passes.

          9. Exactly how I see it old coach.

            I could be wrong, he might be fine in terms of arm strength, but I’m not convinced.

          10. @Grant’s “What’s this”-

            Looks like he stared down his receiver and threw to it to him wide open. Did he throw anymore in that game?

          11. Grant,

            If Fales is better than Carr then he’ll likely be drafted ahead of him considering NFL teams watch every snap these guys have ever taken. What’s the excuse going to be when Carr is gone by round 2 and Fales is still sitting there on day 3?

            Old Coach likes Fales too and just pointed out why he is a late round pick at best: He lacks the rerequisite arm strength to be an NFL starter. I don’t think he’s athletic enough either.

            1. How is Garoppolo more athletic than Fales?

              Carr will get drafted ahead of Fales because velocity is overrated.

          12. Garoppolo isn’t extremely athletic either, but he tested better than Fales at the combine in all but the vertical and I like his arm and pocket awareness better.

            1. Garoppolo has terrible pocket awareness. He bolts at the first hint of pressure. Fales resets his feet and hangs in there.

              Garoppolo ran a 4.97. Fales ran a 4.99.

            1. What does that have to do with playing quarterback?

              You can disagree, but it’s right there “on the film.”

            1. Seems plenty athletic for a QB to me. And athleticism isn’t the most important attribute for a QB. Footwork, accuracy, anticipation, field vision, and willingness to take the hit while making the throw are the most important qualities.

              Has Kaepernick’s strong arm helped him in the red zone?

          13. It’s not everything I agree, but Harbaugh likes athletic QB’s and I also see Garoppolo with a higher upside. You disagree and that’s fine. It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

            The play calling has been the biggest problem in the Redzone imo, but Kap obviously needs to improve in that area.

          14. The primary knock on Fales from scouts is his arm strength. He’s not going to throw many 20 yard outs, but he can make every other throw. Almost all of them have very little else negative to say about his game.

            These same scouts will point to flaws in footwork, etc with Carr but they grade him higher because he has a stronger arm.

            Their theory is that Carr’s weaknesses can be coached up while Fales’ can’t.

            Will be interesting to see how it plays out for both.

            1. Seems to me Fales’ arm only can get stronger as he gets into an NFL strength program. He only had two years in an NCAA strength program.

      1. Comon Grant you know the answer to that just as well as the rest of us. QB’s do’nt directly compete with each other. Fales played against Fresno’s D while Carr competed vs S.J’s D. Now do’nt start quoting defensive stats because football like boxing is many times more about the match up of styles than pure stats.

        1. OC
          Are you contradicting Grant about Montana’s arm? Do you really think you watched more of Joe’s games than Grant? Oh, wait……

          1. @Grant Cohn says Montana had a weaker arm than Faleures to Launch-

            I’ve watched Joe in person at Notre Dame practices, and the games. I’ve only watched film of Fales. Not even close imo….

          2. Brotha i can understand why Grant would feel the way he does, Joe had the uncanny ability to throw a ball that looked so soft in the air that its easy to mistake it as a weak arm. Look at the pass he threw to JT in the super bowl. Look at a couple of the deep outs he threw to DC in the cowboys game in the 81 playoffs . The outs looked like weak throws but he got them bye the dal DB”S. His passes are almost like optical illusions

          3. Montana had incredible timing on his throws which is why he could get them there even with not having the strongest arm. His arm was stronger than people make it out to be though. I remember some absolute ropes to Russ Francis and later Brent Jones down the seam that had some smoke behind them.

          4. My last words on Fales. I hope Grant is right about Fales i really like the guy and like CK i always have a special place in my heart for guys who made me money in college. The final answer will of course be how he plays in the NFL but if there is any question of his arm strength it might show up in where he is drafted. Now Grant i promise if Fales succeeds in the NFL i will give you a shout out saying you were right and i was very wrong[ with no caveat] I expect the same from you with no weak ass arguement about how he did’nt go to the right team or they did’nt use him right. Do we have a deal?

            1. I never said Fales was a franchise QB. I said there are no franchise QBs in this class. I think Fales has a chance to be a franchise QB, but the situation always matters.

              Fales’ biggest issue for me is experience. He only played two seasons in college. Ideally, he should sit on the bench his rookie season and develop.

          5. On a hunch I’ve always attributed Joe’s timing and accuracy to his skills as a Point Guard, which apparently were pretty good.

          6. No Grant that’s not what I said but the he didn’t get the coaching he needed ca’nt be used as an excuse everytime you or I are just plain wrong about a player. How bout a little personal responsibility, I’m willing to take it on one side how bout you?

            1. Are you saying I lack personal responsibility?

              You’re trying to get me to say Fales is a can’t-miss prospect, a sure-fire franchise guy. I’m not saying that. There are none of those in this draft.

          7. Could be, Grant. My point being more about the improvisational nature of round ball passing in a crowded moving space. It’s just an association, I have no sources.

          8. First of all grant no I’m not saying you lack personal responsibility and I apologize if It sounded like it and I think I will just leave it at that, I might question your knowledge but I hope I never attack your morals ethics or personality when I disagree with your point of view. Mea culpa and good afternoon.

  6. For some comedic releif:
    Skip Bayliss just endorsed some other guy’s suggestion that the Cowboys trade Romo & his big contract straight up to Houston for the #1 Overall, and then take Johnny M.
    I AM NOT making this up.

  7. I don’t think it’s pressure. The NFC West is too tough for a college QB to come in and win. Harbaugh and Kap have to win now. No way he’s bring in a QB challenge Kap. To groom maybe. But Kap knows there’s no pressure on him. Especially with the way the NFC north has turned out

  8. Looking at a college prospect to gain leverage against Kap? lol, seriously?

    What do we think it means? It means that the coaches are doing their due diligence on players before the draft, like they do EVERY YEAR. How many workouts and interviews do we have with players every year that we end up NOT drafting?

    At the MOST, they’re evaluating him as a potential backup to KAP if he were to fall to round 3+. Why look at a backup QB so high in the draft? Probably because the coaches want to utilize Kap’s legs more in the regular season next year, and they want to know they have a solid backup QB option in case KAP gets hurt. Utilizing his legs is a big part of his game, and we weren’t able to really showcase it as much last regular season, because the best we had was Colt McCoy.

    If there are more designed runs for KAP (like in the SEA game), then his likelihood of getting hurt is much more than a traditional pocket-passer. Therefore, backup QB is more valuable to a team like us, than a team with a traditional pocket passer, which is why they “could” take a shot at him in the 3rd.

  9. I expect the 49ers to draft a QB in the middle rounds, maybe as high as the second. I suspect the main focus in so doing will be toward developing a quality backup, but I suspect putting a bit of pressure on Kaepernick would be part of the thinking as well.

    Having said that, I do not see it as a negotiating ploy to reduce Kaepernick’s “leverage” in negotiating an extension. Right now, the team has a much superior bargaining position to Kaepernick as they can retain him for three more years regardless of the outcome of any negotiations. Thus, they do not need to take away leverage that is essentially non-existent. Until the completion of the 2014 season, the team holds all the cards, and even afterwards, they hold better cards for two more years.

    The only incentives for the team to complete the deal now are (1) that they may be able to lock in a lower salary now if Kaepernick has a truly breakout year in 2014; and (2) that an extension now, even if it is for only the same three years that they can keep him on the team using his current contract and the franchise tag, can be structured to be the most beneficial to the salary cap. This is true even if they spend more money with an extension than they would if they paid Kaepernick under his rookie contract this year and franchised him the next two years. There is a value to being able to structure the terms of the contract that may outweigh paying him more per year than they would going the franchise tag route.

    This is where business people and fans differ — the fans see the yearly salary, but the business people see the opportunity costs and the cost/benefit analysis results. In other words, paying the cheaper wage is not always less costly than paying a higher wage if paying the cheaper wage has other disadvantages (such as loss of bargaining power or loss of ability top structure how the annual salary impacts the salary cap). I fully expect that the 49ers will sign Kaepernick to an extension (although I would be surprised if it is for more than three years guaranteed), and I expect it will be more per year than the fans think he should be paid (but less than the initial asking price); however, I also believe that any extension deal reached will yield the best cost/benefit ratio for the 49ers, not Kaepernick. That has been the front office’s pattern the last few years.

    1. I was trying to give the view from the business side yesterday JPN. It’s tough to get people to look past the obvious like they can franchise him, or he can be signed long term next year. As you mentioned there are cost and cap benefits to signing him before he plays out his rookie contract. There’s a reason why core players, especially QB’s, rarely reach FA.

    2. Thanks for that analysis. Of course, there are always unconfirmed reports to excite others, but I prefer your thoughts on this topic.

    3. Good points JPN,

      I see you as the Kaepernick guru around here because you followed his career at Nevada.
      Harbaugh has shown a keen penchant for finding a college QB that he can develop and Garoppolo seems to fit that mold.

      Kaep is as safe as Fort Knox as our starter and it’s obvious that McCoy will not be the answer at back-up and there are no free agent QB’ on the horizon that would fit as a back-up for the immediate future.

      Drafting a college QB who fits our scheme is a very smart move.

      1. Thanks, AES, but I have to say I have been wrong as often or more often than I have been right abut Kaep in the NFL.

        1. JPN:

          Once more I feel compelled to request that you continue commenting and that you do so on a more frequent basis.

          1. JPN,

            Nice post, as usual.

            One minor point, I think (I could be the one who has it wrong), but I believe the 49ers can franchise CK for three years, and therefore control him for a minimum of four years.

          2. Thanks, exgolfer. And you are correct — a player can be franchised for three years. I was thinking it was only two with the same team. I am glad you caught that for me.

            Now, there are interesting issues with the third year of the tag. The third year franchise tag salary is QB tag level or 144% of the prior year salary, whichever is greater. So, let’s say the 49ers tag Kaepernick in 2015, and let’s say the QB tag salary is $17 million for the 2015 tag. If the 49ers franchise him again in 2016, the tag amount will be 120% of the prior year — $20.4 million. If they then tag him again in 2017, his tag salary would be 144% of his 2016 salary — $29.4 million. There is little chance a team would use the third year tag.

          3. Regarding the possibilty that the 9ers might franchise CK next year. If they do i have absolutly no dobt that he will hold out. The 9ers would have no bargining position unless they draft a QB very high this year and he is advanced enough to step right in for a SB contender at the begining of the 2015 season. I’m sure some one here can answer my next question. Has there ever been a QB who played a full season under the franchise tag?

          4. JPN,

            What, you don’t think paying one player almost $30M is a good idea?

            Ha! That goes to show you that I know just enough about the franchise tag to be dangerous!

            I was vaguely aware that the salary for each successive year of tagging a player is more than the previous year, but I had no idea the increase in the third year was so steep.

            Thanks for the info.

          5. I concur JPN001 nice to have guys like you, Scooter,Allforfun,Jack,etc. to weigh in no matter how silly the off season gets.

    4. totally agree with you on this one, JPN001! I said yesterday, If I’m a betting man, I’ll bet that CK will sign an extension before this season starts. For how much and how long? I have no idea.

  10. I think the niners draft a QB in the 3rd rnd.. Guys like Aaron Murray, zack mettenbetger, tajh Boyd, David fales should be in consideration. It’s a good idea to develop someone behind kaep just cause of an injury.. If developed properly can be traded down the road for a better pick. This talk about the niners selecting a QB in the second is stupid.. Kaep will sign a big extension before free agency kicks off because both sides want it done..

    1. CK if the 9ers sign the other CK to an extension before the draft i do;nt believe they will pick a QB untill the 3rd day

      1. Old coach, they should have 3 third rnd picks when the draft arrives. Why not take a flyer on one of those QBs I mentioned to groom to become a very serviceable back up for future years.. I don’t have confidence in bethol Thompson to win games if called upon… It will have no impact on the future of the real CK when it boils down to it.

        1. CK…..i believe that out of Murray, Mettenberger and Boyd at least 2 of the 3 will still be available at the begining of the 4th rd. the 9ers might move up to snag one of them in the 4th. Regarding mettenberger will he be healthy at the begining of camp? If not i do’nt see him as a #2 QB in 2014.

          1. Mettenberger is the only one worth drafting, and I think he’ll get drafted in the second or third round.

      2. Grant will Mettenberger be at full strength by the start of the season? Will he be able to get in a full off season and camp? If not i do’nt believe the 9ers will draft him unless they sign a FA QB to be #2 next year. Do you think there is any chance they will sign a stop gap?

  11. With McCoy looking to leave its no secret SF has to do something in FA and/or draft. CK knows there will be new faces.

  12. Love the kid!
    He could make a nice 2nd rd pick or even a 3rd rd steal if he’s still on the board.

    Love to see him eventually become CK’ back-up.

  13. Note to Colin: the fans believe that Jimmy Garoppolo
    will do very well in the preseason (with the Niners…?)
    Try, just try and imagine that you are out for a game or two
    with an injury or an illness. Garoppolo comes in and…
    well, what if Coach Harbaw sees something special?
    Might you end up on the same bench to which Alex Smith
    was relegated? This young man brings something different -
    you and your hipster friends may have already noticed:
    Jimmy has managed to avoid the ink-o-thon (no tattoo-o-rama).
    More about substance, less focused on style, hmm?

  14. I don’t know if this means they are really interested in Garropolo or not. One thing the 49ers have shown (and admitted to) in past years is they are more than happy to get false information out there, try and make teams think they like certain players or are after certain positions when they aren’t.

    This could indicate they like Garoppolo, they are looking at QBs and doing due diligence, or they are messing with other teams heads trying to convince them they are going in a direction they aren’t, maybe to drum up some trade value for their picks or keep other teams from jumping ahead of them for the guys they do want.

    1. Lots of misdirection this time of year Scooter, no doubt about it.

      If Harbaugh took the time to put Garoppolo through a private workout, and liked what he saw, I could see them considering drafting him with a 3rd round pick if they get the compensatory at the end of the 3rd. Otherwise I think they take a late round flyer on one of the more developmental guys like Morris, Thomas, Shaw etc.

      We’ll know a lot more once FA starts and whether they bring in a FA to be the backup.

        1. He’s tied with McCarron as Mayock’s #5 ranked QB in this draft. He’s broken nearly all of Sean Payton’s and Tony Romo’s QB records at Eastern Illinois.

          1. Scooter,

            Agreed. He’s only been playing the position 5 years to boot. He’s got a lot of potential and looks the part as you said.

            1. QBs ahead of McCarron: Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr, Garoppolo, Fales, Matthews, Mettenberger, B. Smith.

            1. I have no idea. That’s just how I feel about the QBs. I would not draft McCarron, Murray, Boyd, Thomas, Shaw, Savage, Gilbert or Paschall.

              I’d be interested in Bryn Renner as an undrafted free agent.

          2. I wasn’t critiquing your choices. I just haven’t had a chance to watch all the QB’s yet. I’ve been concentrating more on WR’s, S’s and CB”s, so wanted to get your opinion on what you’ve seen so far.

  15. I think it means that any NFL team needs more than one effective quarterback, and that the smart teams are always looking to the future. It might also mean that Harbaugh is looking forward to his long term future with the 49ers. Isn’t that a shame for some folks?

  16. Of course they will draft a QB no later than the third or fourth. They have a S-pile of picks. They need at least a quality backup. Colin fills that bill. As far as starting a rookie in the NFC West, seems like the Seahawks did pretty well with one on a two-year plan. Better than the Niners did…

  17. Some people have him prjected in the 3rd-4th…i really doubt this is much news…we all know niners are looking for their back-up QB

    At the same time I could see this as possible leverage for Kap

      1. Maybe they’ll do something like the Redskins did a couple of years ago and take two QB’s. Or they may not like the idea of using the top pick on a QB and are looking for another option available later. Garoppolo is definitely on the radar though.

  18. Do you think the 49ers are trying to put pressure on Kaepernick and to take away his leverage?

    Yes, 100%

    Do you expect the 49ers will draft Garoppolo or another quarterback in the second round of the upcoming draft?

    Someone else but I have a hard time seeing it in the second round at this point

      1. I think teams try to keep their actual intentions very close to the vest and public displays like this which would suggest a clear interest more then likely have an ulterior motive.

        1. CFC,

          “Do you think the 49ers are trying to put pressure on Kaepernick and to take away his leverage?

          Yes, 100%”

          While I agree, the 49ers would try to take any leverage away from CK that they could, I don’t see working out Garopollo as very good way to put pressure on CK.

          I was asking you if you think that the 49ers worked Garopollo out with intention to put pressure on CK.

  19. Sadly that is all that is left on this site. Folks that will believe any conspiratorial suggestion that Grant types. Really? Ok, yes Grant, we all believe that Harbaugh is attempting to get Kaepernick to lower his “massive” contractual demands and take away his leverage by visiting Garoppolo. Or, maybe, just maybe, they are looking for a quality backup.
    My guess, they aren’t even looking at Garappolo. My guess is that Harbaugh has already privately visited the players he is interested in. And the more public visits are a smoke screen. We are quickly becoming the “Onion” of sports blogs…..

  20. Harbaugh and the team are just doing their homework and utilizing a little smoke screen like they with Tavon Austin in last year’s draft.
    I expect the team to draft a QB in the middle rounds. I personally like Fales and he does fit Baalke’s love for long arms.

    1. I don’t think his love of long arms extends to QB’s Mid. The long arm preference is mainly for Lineman I think.

  21. Lets just get used to one fact. The QB that is here is here long term. He is going to get paid a lot of money. A lot of money. I saw a couple of geniuses throw out figures of $8-10 million. Unfortunately Kaepernick is going to get something closer to $16-18 million per. Get used to it. And the Niners will pay it, because they want him as their long term franchise QB.

    When the Niners don’t value you and do not want you as their long term starter, they make you a 3 year offer for $24 million and refuse to budge on the numbers…..

  22. It’s smoke and mirrors fellas. The Harbs wants Garoppolo’s stock to rise so another team overlooks the player(s) that he really wants.
    Have any of you Einstein’s ever bluffed-out some cocky, backwards-hat wearing punk in a game of Texas Holdem?…. You end up winning a big pot with a sorry queen-high hand, as the nervous, sweaty-palmed punk folds with three aces.

    1. Crabs, LOL, you realize that you couldn’t have a queen-high hand in that scenario. You would have an ace-high hand because the third ace would have came out on the flop, turn or the river card and the kid would have pocket aces with no pairs on the board. But, hey, if you can bluff a guy with that hand, feel free to bring “Easy Money” up for a game. ;)

      1. Space (card shark) – Lol bro….Good catch! …I guess I had 5 card draw on the brain.
        Hope your band is still rockin man. Can you please provide that link you sent me last year with the cool video from that other band? I forgot the name of that band, it was a cool song and video that you linked.

      2. Space,

        Sometimes you might say “Q high” when asked what you have, since the board is there for all to see…

        But still, that was a good observation.

    2. Be careful with that one. Some nervous, sweaty-palmed punks don’t know when to fold three aces. It might work with a sweaty-palmed punk holding bottom pair.

        1. That’s why there was a warning. Hold’um is an intellectual game, and to convince someone to fold three aces, you have to know he is smart enough to believe your story.

    3. Lol crab, I was thinking why would Harbaugh express any interest to a draft prospect publicly so you might be right!

  23. We do need another QB, Colt McCoy is not the real McCoy. Nothing harmful about kicking the tires. I expect the Niners will pick a QB in the 4th round or later, too many other needs at the moment.

  24. bayareafan you called it, smoke screen/ misdirection concerning the QB.
    As for the contract stuff , I do not believe this has any effect but from a competitive stand point another QB is needed to remind the starter that there is a viable option for his position should he falter..

  25. Hammer says the offense of San Jose St is similar to the 49ers. Haven’t the 49ers thrown down field more since Kaepernick took over, and don’t you expect them to open it up a little more this year with more 3 WR sets?

      1. Maiocco reported Harbaugh will utilizing that arm strength of Kaepernick in more 3 and 4 WR sets this year…..

          1. I don’t know the extent of his access, but you can bet he has more than you, I or Grant, and especially Lowell after that blistering personal attack on Kaepernick…

          2. Regarding the piece by Lowell, he sure got all the guys who run the fan boy blogs fired up on Twitter and even prompted a response from Kaepernick’s brother.

          3. I don’t think it was so much reasoning, but more of a sense that’s the direction they want to transition towards with Gore aging and Kaepernick becoming the focal point…

          4. Nobody. Calm down dude. Just me. He pretty much called him dumb, which happens to be one of the words between “phony and hypocrite”…..

          5. Lowell is nothing more than a bully with a keyboard. He personally attacked Harbaugh in a write up last year. In this article, he crosses the line and makes it personal with Kaep.

            Lowell is a pompous old man with a dying writing style. He no longer has the ability to sit with stars on the team to endear himself and get a good quality interview, so instead he attacks.

            Reality is that Kaep will be our signal caller barring injury for the next 5-7 years. What you can guarantee during that time is that if you want to read a quality interview from him, you’ll have to do it elsewhere because he won’t give an interview to an unprofessional pompous writer with a last name Cohn.

            A bully with a keyboard. Nothing more, nothing less.

  26. 1.Probably a little smoke and mirrors.
    2. If Harbaugh really likes him and he grades out higher than a lot of other players the Niners can take him as a backup and potential trade bait in the future.
    3. May increase the trade value of the Niners 1st round pick if other teams want him and he is available when their pick comes up.
    4. Harbaugh likes hanging out with QB’s.

  27. Since I’ve had Garoppolo on every one of my mocks, this practically assures me that it’s not going to happen, lol.

  28. Doesnt mean anything. First, the decision to resign Kaep rests first with Kaep (who at some point has to agree or there is not signing), then Baalke, who has to make a good enough offer to get Kaep to sign. There’s no way we’re putting a 2nd round pick into the starting lineup for a team whose window to win a SB is “now”, if not 2012 or 2013. Does that mean we work out guys anyway? Of course. Because nothing is written in stone, and even if we don’t draft him in 2014 we might pick him up in subsequent years should planets align.

  29. “Colin Kaepernick wants a massive contract extension” … Grant Cohn

    The owners and the union agreed to use a fixed noncompetitive price structure on high draft choices. The idea was that there would be more money for veterans, and the owners wouldn’t have to pay so much to find out if their draft choices were going to be worth the big pay that they were getting. It goes without saying that this arrangement violated a whole bushel basket of federal (“free” enterprise) laws.

    The 49ers made a great second round choice, and Seattle made a great third round choice the next year. What the 49ers got was four shots from the red zone to win a Super Bowl for peanuts. That’s a great dividend for the 49ers. Then this year they got to the red zone again with a chance to go to the Super Bowl against the best defense in the NFL. Again, their investment paid off big time.

    What they do now is just a management decision. Which path, pay now or pay later, will be best for cap management? The actors, on both sides, will play out their respective roles, and in the end it will all be to the 49ers advantage because their front office is very good at what they do. And yes, they do plant stories any time it’s to their advantage. So do the other players in this drama.


    1. Sounds as if the quarterback needy team that passes on one early might be looking to trade back up into the first round for Garoppolo…….

    1. Or to put it another way, it take 0.73 seconds for a 20 yard strike from Garoppolo to hit the target, and 0.77 seconds for Fales.

      0.04 seconds is equivalent to 13″ in distance for a DB that runs a 4.5s 40 yard time. That can be a big difference in whether the DB makes a play on the ball or not.

      1. That’s why anticipation is critical.

        Russell Wilson throws 55 mph. No way Montana threw harder than 53 mph.

          1. Ha! No wonder Harbaugh doesn’t care for you. I’ll make it impossible for the press to do the twist this time. Anticipation is critical. There is no way to substantiate your claim that Montana couldn’t throw the football 55 mph, therefore it is nothing more than an opinion. I gave you mine, and I respect yours. Have a good evening sir…..

          2. Heh, yeah, I was sitting in front of a spreadsheet so figured I may as well do some calcs! Sadly I was unable to quantify the time impact of good anticipation… Would be interesting to know though

        1. Anticipation is very important. But a safety with the play in front of him will (or at least should) be flowing towards where the ball is going as soon as he sees the QB start throwing it (and a good DB that also has good anticipation may be moving that way already). They’ll be able to make up 13″ more on a Fales pass than a Garoppolo pass.

          1. Russell Wilson has a strong arm and throws 2 mph harder than Fales. You’re telling me 2 mph is the difference between a strong arm and a weak arm?

          2. I was just highlighting the difference velocity on the ball can make in terms of additional distance a DB can make up on a ball that is 3 miles per hour slower. But when you are talking arm strength of a QB, you are talking about guys that throw somewhere between low 50s to low 60s in miles per hour – not a broad range. So yes, 2 or 3 miles per hour can be a big difference.

            When I watch Fales I see quite a few passes that just float out there on deep and intermediate throws, for whatever reason. If he can improve his arm strength (and he may well be able to), there are a lot of good qualities he brings to the table. His anticipation (or throwing guys open, or however someone wants to put it) is very good, his accuracy is generally very good, and he has good footwork also.

            1. Is velocity important on deep throws? I think touch is more important. Fales throws a nice deep ball with touch.

              You’re right, Fales isn’t built to rope 20-yard outs. Neither was Montana. Being able to rope the 20-yard out is a bonus, not a requisite. Fales ropes it down the seam and to the post.

              It seems to me throwing 53 MPH is not a liability. It’s fast enough, especially if the QB can see over the line and throw with accuracy and anticipation like Fales can.

            1. He won’t get drafted high. 23-year-old prospect with just two years of starting experience, plus he lacks plus throwing velocity. That’s why he’s the best value in the entire draft.

            1. Yeah, fourth round at the latest. Same as Tyler Wilson. 23-year-old prospect with just two years of starting experience. Wilson throws harder. Fales is more accurate. I like both guys.

          3. You think a kid like Garoppolo is subterfuge by Harbaugh and his more realistic target is David Fales with that 4th Round compensation pick?

          4. It sounds like he’s going in Round 2 with a shot at the bottom of Round 1. No way they draft a QB that high….

          5. Tyler Wilson lmao!!!!! This the guy who couldn’t even get into a game for the Oakland raiders last year.. Jeez!

          6. Dang Scooter. You’ve turned the thread into Sports Science. ; )

            Good stuff.

            Your numbers all make sense. The only thing missing is how much of that 13″ can be made up by throwing the ball on time.

  30. Off the topic , Brandon Browner saying he got reinstated if so the 49ers should sign him, 29 years old 6″4 220 just with the Niners need

  31. I believe 49ers are doing their job just like any responsible organization to groom a QB for the future and to back up CK. Now anything can happen in the NFL but any good organization should be scouting talent and recruiting for the future.

  32. A great quarterback elevates the talent around him. Aaron Rodgers does that for Green Bay and he did it for Cal.

    Fales elevated the talent around him at San Jose State. None of the players he played with deserve a draft pick.

    I’m not saying Fales will be great, but I think he has the best shot of any QB in this class. Bortles has a shot, too.

    1. I have yet to watch tape on this guy but from what I’ve read he sounds like a good fit for this team as far as a back-up for Kap.

      Grant how do you rate his arm strength? About the same as Alex?

  33. Kap: I have enjoyed watching you play but you not won the big one and now want to be paid the big one. As much as I hate to say it Russell Wilson makes you sound and look like an amateur.

  34. I think the 49ers can win the Super Bowl next year even though I was saying, after the Seattle game, that our window has closed. The 49ers will get an insurgence of youth from Tank, Dial, Moody (who I think will beat-out Wilhoite (sp) for Navarro’s job for half the season), Kilgore, McDonald, maybe Lattimore, and Patton next year, and I think they can win a Super Bowl with those guys, plus a few more players in the draft. However, in order to compete for a Super Bowl ring next year the 49ers have to do a few things.

    FIrst off, the 49ers have to take some of the pressure off all members of their team by creating easy, blow-out victories. This won’t be easy in the ultra competive NFC West, but against other opponents, the 49ers can’t afford to play small ball, grinding out victories because that only prolongs player exposure to injuries, whether it be the nagging variety, miss a couple of games or the dreaded season ender. The style of offensive ball the 49ers’ play leads to injuries, and creating an offense that blows teams out, creating easy weeks for all players, would help the 49ers in the post season.

    In order to blow teams out, the 49ers must find a running game that’s more diverse. And to do this, the 49ers must draft one, maybe two running backs for the 49er backfield. Gore is done, and Marcus Lattimore is a huge question mark. If you want play action to work, get the linebackers worried about containing their lanes. They don’t have to contain lanes when Frank Gore is in the backfield because Gore can’t bounce the play to the outside. My grandma could run Frank down in her Rascal if Frank bounced it to the outside. Kendal Hunter wasn’t used enough in 2013, maybe because of his injury, maybe because Roman and Harbaugh fell too much in love with Gore when Crabtree went down. Whatever the reason, use Kendal more and bring in another back (maybe two) as insurance against Lattimore’s knee.

    In 2014 the 49ers will have a healthy Crabtree (hopefully). Patton, Boldin and McDonald will be in their second years in the system, and Kaepernick will have another year under his belt. The key to blow outs will be quick scoring drives. If the 49ers can draft a wide receiver to stretch the field (not just run decoy routes all day like Ginn and Moss), and Kaep can find the new receiver deep, the 49ers will open up their offense. But Colin Kaepernick isn’t a great deep ball thrower…. yet. He can certainly stretch the field with longer passes than Smith, but the only bomb he threw successfully all year was to Vernon Davis. He missed two more opportunities to Kyle Williams in 2013, and the 49ers pretty much stopped throwing deep after he missed Kyle. Kaep needs to work on this if his team is going to get easy wins in 2014.

    Jon Baldwin could be an X factor. 49er fans don’t think much of Baldwin, but I could see him developing into a deep threat. His hands are suspect, he isn’t exactly a speedster, but look at his college tape, and some the big plays he made in KC. He was, previously, more of a deep threat.

    If the 49ers can use this draft to get help at the offensive skills positions with players who contribute immediately (something offensive players did in their rookie years Harbaugh’s first year in the league), AND they use the draft to sure-up their secondary, the 49ers could create some “blow out,” wins that help them in the playoffs.

    But the 49ers will also need to get home field advantage through-out the playoffs to insure the NFC Championship goes through SF instead of Seattle. To do that, the 49ers’ offensive coaches will need to realize that Frank Gore is pretty much done. Sure, Gore can still pass block with the best of them, and Gore can exploit the smallest of cracks in the D line, but Gore is so limited that when he’s in the backfield, defenses know what’s coming and they can, in a way, “stack the box,” because the league knows what Gore can and can’t do. Harbaugh and Roman conceding this point early will keep the 49ers from losing an all important two or three games while figuring out that Gore is limited. And those two or three games could mean the difference between the playoffs on the road or the playoffs in SF.

    Colin Kaepernick will also have to mature into a pocket passer who goes through his progressions. Alex Smith and his wife, a former Raider cheerleader, hated Candlestick (at least Alex’s wife did) because Alex was treated so poorly. The same can be said about how the 49er fans treat Colin Kaepernick. Remember Smith’s first full year (his rookie year?). Smith couldn’t even hold onto the football. People were claiming Smith’s hands were too small. Now Kaep, who’s been nothing short of amazing, isn’t getting any love either, and it does affect a players’ motivation. 49er fans remind me of Philly fans regarding our qbs (look at this guy above me, Victor). Colin Kaepernick is a great, great qb talent who won’t exactly be fired up to be a better qb with the fans hating on him. Hopefully Kaep finds the inner motivation to block out the noise and he learns despite the noise to be a better pocket passer, going through his progressions quicker.

    In short, bolster the backfield with a high round running back, hope Kaep continues to mature, find a deep threat at receiver, get Harbaugh and Roman and Gore to all accept that Gore’s best days are behind him and use him accordingly, all creating a high-powered offense that can win easy games in blow-out fashion, and the 49ers will win the Super Bowl. That’s not might. If they do these things they will win the Super Bowl. The one serious threat to this plan is that Greg Roman’s offense is overly complicated and stymies big plays. He’s a college run game coordinator, and instead of Harbaugh giving Roman someone like Mangini (who’s since moved to TE coach, thank god) Harbaugh needs to give Roman some help – not figuring out how to disguise plays, but figuring out how to get quick scores in the passing attack. And hopefully the same help that Harbaugh would get Roman could also counsel Roman on how to simplify the offense so rookies to can contribute in the same fashion they did in Harbaugh’s rookie year when Roman and Harbaugh were still installing and creating the offense. Now, in year four, the offense is far too complicated for rookies to contribute…. and for what? A ground and pound attack that features Phil Dawson for the first half? I can see an overly complicated offense that’s high powered and blows opponents out. But an overly complex offensive system that relies on the defense and keeps teams in games kicking field goals is just plain stupid.

    1. Til Harbaugh,Roman and Baalke change their mindset and philosophy..Don’t expect too much outta this offense

    2. Running back is a high priority. Gore is nearly done, Lattimore is coming off two knee injuries, Dixon is a free agent, Hunter is more of a spot back and LMJ is LMJ. Everyone is pounding WR and CB and rightfully so but RB is a need for the 49ers also in my opinion. One of the 49ers first four picks should be a RB.

        1. I like him also. The cupboard is not bare at the RB position but it is not deep. We play in a smash mouth division where you have to run the ball to compete and we have a Head Coach who in his heart wants to play Bo Schembechler football. I am thinking that our first five picks in no particular order might be CB, WR, Safety, RB, QB. Of course free agency could change that.

        2. I like West, but he’s a tough one to grade. Tearing up low level competition is an expectation if you are any good.

          I’ve not done any film work on him yet but reports like this one make me wary:

          - Does not demonstrate great vision; misses cutback lanes, has a tendency to bounce outside and occasionally runs into his blockers
          - Can be a bit hesitant, sometimes dancing in the backfield and losing yards
          - Questionable decision-making; moves east and west too often, giving up his forward momentum

          Those 3 negatives all talk about effectively the same thing – he has questionable RB instincts.

  35. Excellent post on Barrows blog from yesterday regarding Harbaugh. Its a fair and nuanced look at the man and his comunication style or lack there off.

  36. Now it comes out that various sources inside the 49ers HQ are revealing that the main bone of contention between Harbaugh and Baalke is Greg Roman’s play calling.

          1. OC
            But you came through with flying colors since you asked before my disclaimer went up. You have the right instincts; what’s up with the professionals in the field?

    1. OK, for the record, this is a false story that I totally fabricated and there are no sources. This is a ‘Message in a Bottle’ post; I want to see if, despite the immediately following disclaimer, this falsehood washes up on some media shore and some Einstein picks it up and broadcasts it around. Any bets on Baylis?

      1. Tuna:

        Part of me wishes you hadn’t fessed up so quickly. It would have been interesting to see how the commenters divided up on a Baalke vs. Roman value battle.

  37. I agree with Razor. Harbaugh doesn’t care for Grant. It’s got to be tough when your two most memorable moments are a 30 second conversation with Harbaugh talking about what toppings he puts on his hot dog, and Anthony Davis blasting you on twitter.
    Not cared for much would be my general consensus.

    1. REDnGOLD i think Harbaugh much like Bill Walsh does’nt like or trust many if any at all in the media. I doubt he holds Grant in any more disdain than anyone else in the media.

      1. OC,
        It’s not a bad observation by Gold. It goes back to a comment I made a while back. You have to build trust. That takes time, commitment and hard work. You also have to be careful not to make the bad comments too personal, otherwise you can forever find yourself on the outside of that bakery window looking in…….

          1. Razor i think there are 3 beat writers in the bay area who have built that trust and reputation to be let in a “little” closer to the inner circle and thats Miaocco, Barrows and Lynch and thats why they break most of the stories about the 9ers.

    1. Jack i’m confused after reading LaCanfora’s article it sounds like CK might just be a very very good QB yet i have’nt read anything like that here. What do you think LaCanfora sees that Grant does’nt?

      1. It means that Grant has chosen to make his living going against the grain and bashing our star players. Keeps the blog active……

      1. OK Grant that answers the question what does Grant see that LaCanfora does’nt but what about my original question.

        1. La Canfora cites Kaepernick’s gaudy yards from scrimmage per touch stats and yards per pass attempt stats. Those don’t help Kaepernick in the red zone.

          1. Well i ca’nt argue with your red zone concerns. I will be very interested to see next yr with hopefully the whole O healthy from the start whether or not the play calling wo’nt be a lttle different. A teams red zone package is practiced heavily during camp.

            1. You think Baalke is about to hand over $20 mil per to a QB he was screaming at in the press box just a few months ago? Somehow, I can’t see it.

          2. So Grant do you see a deal happening between CK and the 9ers this off season and if so how much do you think he will sign for?

          3. Razor et al, why would Baalke re-sign Kaep now to a deal that makes him one of the top 5 paid QBs in the game? I thought the whole point of getting the deal done now was so they could get him cheaper than they would otherwise have to pay him? If they are going to have to pay him like one of the best in the business anyway, how about they just let him prove he is worth it next season…?

          4. The 49ers know he’s their guy, and they put that on notice for the other teams at the combine. They’ll probably save $4 million a year if they get him signed now as opposed to next year….

          5. So next year he’s going to go from wanting to be paid as a top 5 QB at $20/year to wanting to be the highest paid QB in the NFL at $24/year? If that is his expectation I’d definitely let him prove it.

            And if he doesn’t prove he is a top tier QB next season, and he still wants top $, I’d tag him and try and trade him.

          6. I agree with Scooter — the economics of waiting becomes more appealing if the contract salary would be significantly over the tag salary.

            From what we have seen over the past few years of how the 49ers operate, I would be surprised to see a deal worth more than $17 million a year, and I would be equally surprised if any of the contract was guaranteed for more than three years. The 49ers will want an escape clause.

          7. Scooter,

            You sign him now because the price will go up; not down. I think the disconnect between people in support of resigning him and those against, is where to rank what he’s accomplished. If you read the article, he’s already proven he deserves this kind of contract and he hasn’t even matured into what he could become in the next year or two.

            I went on a couple of days ago about how people here were not valuing his accomplishments in the proper terms, and instead were severely underselling them. This breakdown should open peoples eyes to exactly just how good this guy is already and can become in the future.

            I hate the idea of spending 20 mill on one player, but that is the league now. There is no way around it. If they don’t pay him what are they going to do? They don’t have another QB to take over like they did when Smith was here. There’s no decent options in FA. So they are left with gambling that they can find somebody in the draft which is a shot in the dark at best.

            They have to resign him this offseason unless they want to pay him a whole lot more next year or be forced to have him count for 18 mill against their cap with a franchise tag. Neither one of these options is better than signing him now imo.

          8. Yes rocket, if he performs well his asking price will go up from top 5 to top dog. Either way, lots of money. If you wait and he proves he is worth that money next season, you don’t even blink at paying it. So why not wait?

          9. OK scooter i get it now but like Lombardi says its tough to trade a franchise player because the team thats getting him is only renting him.

          10. Old coach, any team trading for Kaep would be doing so with the understanding of giving him a multi-year deal. So long as Kaep doesn’t sign the franchise tender that is allowed (until the franchise tender signing period lapses).

          11. Scooter,

            My point is, unless Kap completely falls apart and regress’, he’s going to get that kind of money. The idea that he needs to improve his passing yardage numbers or completion percentage to be worthy of this kind of deal is absurd. Not saying you are saying that, but some are, and it’s rhetoric that has no basis in reality. You aren’t getting Kap for less than 20+ mill next year no matter what happens this season unless he goes completely downhill as I mentioned. Knowing that, what is there possibly to be gained by waiting until next year? They don’t have any options unless they luck out with a draft pick who comes in and lights it up. It’s not a good strategy to rely on.

          12. Yea, I’m not getting it. Why is this so hard for some to comprehend? La Canfora lays it out so even Grant doesn’t understand it…..

          13. As I’ve said before rocket, for that sort of money you need to be completely sure. One and a half seasons is not enough to go on, unless he displayed no flaws in his game. While I really like much of what I have seen, I’m not blinding myself to the fact there are still flaws in his game (and neither are you, but some are). And how much of his success has been due to having a great team around him, or a product of having a coach in place that has developed a system that suits him?

            Uncertainty adds risk. While there will always be an element of risk involved, I don’t like the idea of paying him top 5 QB $$ when there is so much risk attached to it. As I’ve said before, the downside of re-signing him and getting it wrong is much worse than the downside of not paying him now and finding out he is worth it.

          14. Scooter,

            The flaws in his game have not kept him from being a top ten rated QB and winning games is my point. The flaws are there, but flaws and all, Kap has taken this team deep into the playoffs twice. Even if you don’t think he’ll improve as a pocket passer, he’s already shown he’ll figure out a way to get you a win. I can’t see any way he doesn’t improve considering he’s come from being a raw QB from an offense that didn’t resemble anything like a pro system, to leading a team to the SB in his second year. He struggled at times this season but that mainly occurred without Crabtree and in a couple of games where he lost Davis too. There wasn’t a better QB in the league the second half of the season.

            Like I said to Claude, we can end this if you want, but I just don’t get the motivation for waiting when we know his price is going up regardless of what happens this year.

          15. Rocket, Kaep has taken a highly talented team to the playoffs. Alex Smith did the same and was also a top 10 rated QB if memory serves. The offense is designed to put less stress on the QB than most. Maybe I can be considered to be down-playing Kaep’s ability or achievements – I don’t think I am, he’s done very well – but perhaps you are being overly generous.

          16. @Scooter

            If you want to get by the Seahawks, Kaepernick is your best chance of getting it done. I think Earl Thomas added validity to that when he called him “special”….The offense should be making the transition from what you describe as “putting less stress on the quarterback position” to this is the quarterbacks offense.

          17. “The offense should be making the transition from what you describe as “putting less stress on the quarterback position” to this is the quarterbacks offense.”

            On that I agree razor. When that happens he will be worth paying the big bucks.

          18. Scooter,

            Being overly generous? Possibly, but as La Canfora laid out in the article, the body of work is there as are the results on the field. The team that went to the SB was talented but the defense sure didn’t play like a talented unit. Kap has been the best offensive weapon this team has had in every playoff game, and the only one they had in Seattle.

            I don’t think the system puts less stress on the QB. It just gives answers to every question as Alex Smith described it. I saw Smith under duress and getting sacked quite a bit while he was here. It happens to Kap too. The QB has to be smart in this offense most of all and the difference you have with the Kap is the ability to get the big gains more often than you did with Smith.

          19. Rocket, in La Canfora’s own words, he is championing Kaep “Wilson isn’t eligible for a contract extension until 2015, as a 2012 draft pick, and, trust me, count Pete Prisco among those who know I will be constructing a column just like this on Wilson’s behalf a year from now, as I am a champion of his as well”.

            He is taking the highlights of Kaep while glossing over the negatives. It is the point of the article. La Canfora even acknowledges that it is a limited sample size, and his response is to simply brush it off.

            As for the system, I said it puts less stress on the QB than other systems, not that it is stress free. As you outline, it gives answers to every question. Part of that is keeping it pretty simple. Pre-snap reads, high-low reads, etc.

    2. Well I thought I and a few others here made a pretty good case for why the Niners need to resign him, but this blew it out of the park. The Anti Kap argument is officially a rotting carcass in the middle of a highway.

      1. rocket:

        How so? If Kaepernick isn’t going to give the 49ers a discount for signing him to big money a year before they have to, then there’s no reason to sign him to big money this year. It would seem that Kaepernick’s alleged position mandates that the 49ers wait until next year.

        1. Claude,

          Because the longer they wait, the more they pay. Players don’t give discounts. The only way a team can save money is to get somebody signed as early as possible because by the following year the number will increase.

          Another reason you do it this year is you have him only counting for 1 mill right now. You have this season to offset some of the signing bonus and set up the deal so that the highest numbers start when the cap goes up to 150 mill in 2015. If you wait until next year, not only are you paying more, but you also are looking at less wiggle room for the guaranteed money.

          My main point of contention however is, what exactly are you waiting for? What are you expecting to see that will make you feel better about giving him this money? As the article states, Kap is going to get this contract from somebody, and based on what he’s already done, he’s already earned this deal in terms of market value. There truly is no reason to wait, especially when you consider how detrimental the cap hit could be with a franchise tag and how much harder it’ll be to get a deal done knowing he’s a FA.

          Now the good thing is, it appears La Canfora is just making a case for why Kap should ask for 20 mill, I don’t think he’s reporting he’s heard that’s the case. Maybe Kap will take the 18 mill knowing it helps the team keep the core around him intact. Not likely but still possible.

          1. rocket:

            Before making a financial commitment that will constrain the team’s ability to sign other quality players, I would want to make sure that Kaepernick can become the type of QB who can carry the team. In my opinion, he’s not yet that type of QB; I think he has to get better as a passer (especially as a decision-maker).

            Kaepernick’s price goes up next year only if he continues to develop. It he doesn’t improve as a passer, or if he regresses, he’s not going to be able to demand more money. If that happens, it won’t be easy to get out from a prematurely-given big money long term contract. On the other hand, if he does make that step, he will be worth the extra money that the 49ers will have to pay him by waiting to sign him. In other words, I think the downside of being wrong is worse if they sign him this year to a long term contract with lots of guaranteed money.

            Also, I would be careful about assessing Kaepernick’s current and future market value based upon LaCanfora’s presentation of facts and stats that were undoubtedly provided to him by Kaep’s agents. The same goes for off the record statements made to LaCanfora by personnel people from other teams. It is in the interest of those teams to drive up Kaepernick’s cost to the 49ers.

            I think I have laid this out as clearly as I can. Scooter also has made the case pretty clearly. This is just going to have to be one of those issues on which we agree to disagree. I hope you can respect that.

          2. Rocket, that 2nd paragraph makes no sense. Waiting actually makes better cap sense. He’ll count $1 million this year and you can structure the deal (even if it is more overall) so that over the next 4 seasons he would count less against the cap than if they resign him now.

          3. Scooter,

            If you resign him now, you can treat it as a 6 year deal in terms of spreading out cap hit as opposed to 5 if you sign him next year, or whatever length of contract that sign. Having the extra year when he is making low money allows you to move some extra guaranteed money into this season, assuming they either cut or drop Rogers which frees up another 5 mill or so.


            I understand what you are saying as I do with Scooter. My point is simply that the decision to wait is based on your reservations of how good Kap can get, the level of improvement he can make as a pocket passer etc, if I’m understanding it correctly. What I’m saying, is that Kap right now, with no improvement whatsoever, is going to command this type of deal. Next season his price is going up regardless of what transpires this year. Continuing to develop is a great bonus, but he is not going to command any less next year unless he falls off a cliff and that’s not going to happen with his talent and work ethic. Next year he commands a lot more because he’s a FA and has the luxury of knowing he’s getting at least 18-19 mill with a tag.

            Now both you and Scooter say the downside to being wrong is worse than signing him now, but I’m not sure what needs to happen for it to turn out wrong. As I’ve mentioned already, he’s played at a high enough level to get to the brink of winning a SB. He has things he needs to improve on absolutely, but we’ve seen with our own eyes that the Niners can get to a SB with this guy as he is right now, so what exactly are you expecting to happen that will make him unworthy of the deal?

            You mention the financial commitment constraining their ability to sign other quality players, and that’s true, but it will be even worse next year with a higher long term salary or a Franchise tag.

            If you don’t want to discuss it anymore I’m cool with that, but I’m really just trying to get to the root of what the people who think the team should wait expect to happen. He’s getting this kind of money from somebody next year, that’s a virtual guarantee. Combine that with the fact we have a contending team that could go into 2015 with no decent option at QB, and I can’t see how you don’t sign him now.

          4. A five year extension (giving 6 years in total) still only allows them to spread the signing bonus over a maximum of 5 years, unless I am mistaken.

            My point has always been that Kaep locks onto targets, and doesn’t do a good job of reading coverages in play or going through his progressions. That is fine for Harbaugh’s offense, but we don’t know for certain how much longer Harabugh will be with the 49ers. Most offenses put a lot more emphasis on the QB making in play reads and going through progressions.

            What can he do next year to warrant giving him a big contract? He can show a much greater ability and willingness to read the play, make an early decision on his primary target (and ideally start looking off DBs to help his primary target get open by not telegraphing where he is going), throw his receiver open by anticipating their routes, and if he doesn’t like what he sees move on to the next target. In this offense that is often a high-low read, which should make it much easier than in other more complex offenses.

          5. rocket:

            As I said, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

            Also, as I said before, I think the 49ers may want to make sure that Harbaugh will be sticking around before they make any long term commitment to Kaepernick.

          6. Scooter,

            A five year extension (giving 6 years in total) still only allows them to spread the signing bonus over a maximum of 5 years, unless I am mistaken

            No they can give him money this year to spread it out over 6 years. It would be considered an extension.

            He does do the things you described, so do a lot of other young QB’s including the guy who just won the SB. We don’t know what Harbaugh asks him to do. Some plays may just have one receiver; others 2-3, we just don’t know. I have seen Kap go through progressions though. It’s not like he’s never done it. He’s also only a year and half into his career. It takes time before you get a finished product. The obvious improvement he has to make is settling for the checkdown instead of holding onto the ball waiting for the downfield option to open, but that is not a huge obstacle the more he plays. That will become second nature at some point.

          7. Sorry rocket, I just don’t see Kaep doing those things on a regular basis.

            Saying he will improve these elements of his game is a projection and no certainty. It is not as simple as saying he has improved from where he was and therefore will continue to improve. Doesn’t work that way. He’s been through the steepest part of his learning curve now. There is a very real chance he will never learn to do these things well. I believe he will, but I’m not willing to take that to the bank. You are, and I think it’s great that you believe in your guy, but for me the risk is not worth it. Let’s see him make another leap this coming season.

          8. “I’m not sure what needs to happen for it to turn out wrong.”

            He ends up proving that his in incapable of carrying the team, and they end up playing like those teams that have the QB’s that also average $18mil per season.

        2. They can’t give him a new contract with a signing bonus and not have the signing bonus kick in for 2015. The signing bonus must be prorated over the first 5 years.

          1. They can give him a bonus applied to this season to increase his base salary. It’s another benefit to resigning a player with a year left on their contract.

          2. However if the new deal begins this season and includes a signing bonus, that bonus must be prorated over the first 5 years of the contract.

            Whether they give him his $18mil/per now, or $20mil/per next offseason, the % of the cap used doesn’t change.

            1. The new deal would be an extension Jack. Making it a 6 year period they can spread money out as opposed to 5. They could add some of his guaranteed money to this years base salary to lower future cap hits if they chose to do so.

              1. They can spread some $$ but if they include a signing bonus it would hit the first 5 years regardless.

              2. I know Jack that’s why I said they could add money to his base salary. The point is they can spread the new contract over 6 years as opposed to 5.

                Good link Razor. I’m going to apply for Baalkes job.

    1. Hey Williamson,
      maybe Niners should try to pry Jim Harbaugh away from Stanford. This Singletary fella is not working out.

        1. old coach – I’m flattered but I really don’t want to stay after show and peddle my T-shirts and CD’s to the sloshed……I could never sit next to David Letterman either. :)

    2. I know many people did not like Sando when he wrote the ESPN NFC West blog, but Sando is much better than any of the writers on that blog now. There is almost no reason to check it anymore.

      1. Yea I miss Sando, he may have been a Seahawk fan at heart but he did well in not showing his bias in his writing.

        Yea I rarely go on there anymore, that blog is made up of 90% Rams articles now for some odd reason.

        1. same here, I stopped reading that blog as soon as Sando moved up and when ESPN changed the format (facebook users are the only one allowed to post comments).

          1. yeah i thought that format change was ridiculous…its a big reason why i like coming here is the fact that commenting is so effortless unlike most other places.

      1. Wow, I had thought he was just clueless, but that actually makes me worried about the guy.

        I look forward to his piece about whether Young is ready to take over for Montana.

    1. Kaepernick to Evans deep on those scramble routes would be sickening. The corner fade in the Red Zone might actually work with this kid….

        1. I’m thinking you’d probably have to leap frog the Rams(to #12), because I don’t think he gets by them…..

      1. Maybe trying to gauge him so they have a sense of how much they like him so they can make a judgement about the value of trading up, and how far. So far my guess on Baalke is he wouldn’t reach higher than #15 for anybody; but it’s totally an arbitrary guess.

    2. If the 49ers do trade up for Evans I be the first words that come out of Baalke’s mouth are “arm” and “length.”

    3. The 49ers will be meeting with lots of WRs during this draft process. All this tells us is they are indeed looking at early round WRs.

  38. Grant i’m still waiting for an answer to my last question. Do you think CK and the 9ers will get a deal done this off season and if so for how much?

  39. I am with Grant on Fales mostly cause I have been a Fales fan through his career. He is not the fastest or possesses the strongest arm but what he does do is win when the odds are not in his favor.
    I live in Monterey and have watched him win in Palma, then MPC, then SJS. I watched the Senior bowl this year to see him perform and he did not disappoint. Even when sick was arguably best QB at game time.
    He is a winner even when playing with weak support and he will come as a bargain due to the for mentioned tangibles. Other teams will overlook the intangibles.
    If Harbaugh brings in every one but Fales for a look see and talks about all the other QBs but Fales then I suggest the handwritting is on the wall — just written in invisible ink.

      1. I live in Salinas, so Fales to the Niners would be huge news here, considering he went to Palma and all…

          1. I follow pro football mostly, but I read and watch highlights of the draft prospects around New Year’s…plus I come here and read what everyone else has to say too…I learn a lot from the peeps here…and yeah…it’s cool to hear from local fans…

      2. Nice to meet two locals, Ricardo and Matt,
        Maybe us home towners need to form a pull for Fales team?
        Ricardo seems I and Matt need to fill you in on the local phenom you missed.

        1. Bruce and Matt, I’ve never seen Fales play before and even if I did I wouldn’t know what to look for :) But since he’s a local guy (which I didn’t even know until today) I’m all in. Go Niners! Go Fales!

    1. I am with Grant on Fales mostly cause I have been a Fales fan through his career. He is not the fastest or possesses the strongest arm but what he does do is win when the odds are not in his favor

      He didn’t win much this year Bruce, 6-6 to be exact and got blown out by almost every half decent team he played against.

      I’m really trying to see what the Fales backers see in this guy but for the life of me I can’t find it. He’s average across the board and looks like a guy who will toil as a 3rd string QB for a few years until he’s out of the league. I don’t see anything special when I watch him. He is accurate when he has a lot of time and a clean pocket but that’s about it. I really don’t want to knock a prospect as I don’t know how well he’ll do at the pro level, but the amount of support he’s getting on here baffles me.

      1. I’m with you Rocket. There is absolutely nothing that stands out to me with Fales. He’s in a word, Vanilla. I watched three games last year cause me buddy is a SJS alum. Lost two of the three games. From what I remember, he gets the ball out fast which helps his completion percentage.
        I prefer them to go after Savage or Boyd in late rounds. Have them be the #3 for the first year behind lets say Hill or Clemens for a year. Then have them take over the number 2 the following year.

          1. TY’s mom obviously doesn’t understand that just because something happened once doesn’t mean it will happen again.

          2. Tell them I’ll have to watch those games to see if the tape shows what they purport it to show.

            Meanwhile, Mrs. Crabtree is on the other line asking me to remind you that throwing deep on the last play of the NFCCG didn’t work out so well, and Mrs. Patton would like to point out that dinking/dunking would have worked out better. Mrs. Boldin says the same thing.

          1. Disagree. Lot of upside to Savage. He was injured a ton and had the Alex Smith excuse of being in a different offense every year. But the guy is tough. Ended the year playing with rib injuries. For me, he’s worth a late round pick.

            Boyd is rough, unpolished, but intriguing. 34 Td’s vs 11 Ints isn’t exactly terrible. I’ll say this, the 49ers are way more likely to look at one of these two, than Fales. I’m willing to bet on it.

      2. Rocket,
        That 6 and 6 was with a lousy support cast. Some Joe guy looked kind of vanilla in college, Bay, before some Bill guy saw something special in the intangibles. I bring this comp in because there is, as Claude points to, something very old West Coast in this guy. Look at his progressions and reads and you will see some of that magic. Any one who can make the right calls in the unfamiliar territory of the Senior Bowl and after missing most of practice due to illness no less, has something special. Did not take him long to find the right target on the field where others failed to do so.

        Imagine a 49er team with fleet feet cannon ball passing CK one moment only to change up at a next moment to a touch pass triple read old fashion West Coast with Fales. What a switch up to put to a defense.

        I am not saying Fales is a QB you grab early in the draft. Frankly I don’t see any in this draft. There are some darn good DBs in this draft that the Niners need to salivate over first and formost. Then come DLs and WRs.

        But they need a backup QB at some late point and they need to find the best available in late rounds. I say if Fales is available in late middle you grab him unless you are certain he will be there in the late — late. I personally am not sure he will be there in the late rounds???

        1. I hear you Bruce. As I said before, I hate knocking a kid before he’s even had a chance, but with all the support he’s getting on here I decided to watch every piece of film I could find on him, and I came away wondering what it is that his cheering section sees in him that leads them to believe he can be a starter in the NFL. Grant thinks he has the best shot of becoming a franchise QB of the entire class.

          I have nothing against the guy and freely admit I’m no expert and could be dead wrong about him. If the Niners draft him I hope that is the case.

          1. That is because this is a weak QB draft class. All of them have weaknesses and / or baggage and even when playing with good supporting cast. The 49ers have the luxury of waiting for a QB and not falling to much in love with one of them early. Fales should be there late.
            In the meantime they can grab some very impressive CBs to fix their most glaring weakness. Then look for that back up QB so they can go back to the high stakes pistol with CK and not worry so much if he goes down.

  40. Grant i’m still curious whether or not you think the 9ers and CK will get a deal done this off season and if so for how much? If you ask me i’m not sold that it would be the best move but after reading all i’ve read i believe pretty strongly it will happen and it will be in the 18 mill neighborhood

    1. This is the 3rd time you’ve asked him that question. I suspect Grant and Hammer are down at the Pub with Lowell drinking away their Kaepernick blues…

      1. Yeah Razor i do’nt think its a tough question there is no right or wrong answer its just opinion. I’ll ask everyone else here there opinion. Whether or not you think its a good idea, do you think the 9ers will get a deal done with CK this off season and if you do for how much?

        1. If they already know he’s their guy, and have determined he’s worth his asking price, I see no reason to not get it done, and like I said back in January, they’ll get it done before the season begins…..

          1. @Claude

            Per La Canfora, “But the reality is the 49ers kicked off contract talks with Kaepernick’s agents at the unmistakable corner window table at Prime 147 in Indianapolis a few weeks back — a ubiquitous hot spot that is overflowing with media, agents, GMs and coaches every night during the combine — so the club very much wants the league to know Kaepernick is their guy and they want to do a deal with him now (furthermore, these negotiations also serve as a positive public relations distraction from some of the nasty infighting going on in that organization these days, centered around coach Jim Harbaugh)”.

            “So the reality is these sides are talking, right now, and we can only judge Kaepernick’s value based on what he has been able to display so far. And, to me, if you want to talk to this kid now about a contract, you had better be ready to meet him at $20 million a year”.

          2. You’re not going to be so eager about paying that “kid” $20M a year when we’re dumping players on defense in a few years to get under the cap.

          3. C’mon Claude. Do you seriously contend the 49ers don’t know what the going rate is for a franchise quarterback? smh then kisses bicep;)

          4. You assume a couple of things there:

            1. That Kaepernick is already a franchise QB
            2. That his agent’s asking price accurately reflects his value.

            Smh, then do a commercial for American Family Insurance.

          5. 1. “….so the club very much wants the league to know Kaepernick is their guy and they want to do a deal with him now…”
            2. Current QB Franchise Tag $16,912 I don’t think the 49ers would do number one without having an idea of what Kaepernick believes his worth to be, nor do I believe they would do number one if they did not believe that worth to be close to their assessment value….

            Rips open jersey to reveal Dolphins jersey, then kisses bicep;)

          6. 1. That’s not a direct quote from anyone within the 49ers’ organization. That’s LaCanfora’s take on the situation, presumably after being briefed by Kaepernick’s agent.

            2. See No. 1

            Epilogue: Bravo, I don’t think I can top that.

          7. @Claude

            Mrs. Sheindlin said to provide any evidence you have that La Canfora is working for Kaepernicks’ agent, otherwise I don’t believe you! Also, if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true…..

          8. Nice try. Judge Judy wouldn’t have let you rely upon LaCanfora’s statement as evidence of what the 49ers truly think. It’s just his opinion; it doesn’t even rise to the level of hearsay. Simply put, you have no evidence for your assumption/fervent wish that the 49ers agree with the assessment that Kaepernick is already a franchise QB.

            And, seriously, do you think LaCanfora compiled all that data by himself?

            You’ll have to be more specific about what it is that you think doesn’t make sense.

          9. @Claude

            What are you going to tell me next Deputy Balls, you have done some digging into La Canforas’ salary, bank accounts and traced secret funds from unnamed patrons in a swiss bank account that the IRS is about to seize under FATCA?

        2. I think they get it done Coach. I don’t see a reason not to as I’ve explained in numerous posts the past few days.

        3. OC,
          you are asking a question that Grant does not have an answer to. He’s on the outside looking in.
          I’ll give you my opinion though. The deal will not get done this year. The 49ers are smart though and are having that exact conversation with Kaep so that his contract does not become a distraction.
          What they are probably dangling in front of him is the fact that they will be opening up the passing attack this year. To do this, they need a vertical threat WR. Look for the 49ers to either trade up for their speedster, or for them to take a serious look at someone like Kenny Britt.
          In the end Kaep is confident enough to go out and demonstrate again what he’s worth. I’ll say this, whatever that number was this year, next year it will be higher.

          1. Bay if they sign him to a franchise tag next year do you think he will play? I feel almost sure he will hold out instead of playing under a franchise tag.

          2. you really think they’re considering bringing in Britt…I just don’t see that guy meshing with our guys very well…he’s a diva for sure….it’s ashame since he has all that talent

            I would think the only way they consider it is if they would get a huge bargain and make sure they write in the ability to cut him without any penalties.

            The only one i see Niners trading up for would be Bekham or possibly Lee….I think Watkins or Evans would just cost them too much….Odell might be there in the early 20′s and Lee maybe late teens IMO

          3. OC,
            they could franchise tag him next year but they won’t. They don’t want to rock the boat. From a pr standpoint you don’t want anything negative surrounding the team with a brand new stadium and the city hosting a superbowl the following year.
            As for you Oregon, you are not stating what you think will really happen, you are stating what you want to happen. Bud like it or not, they are all in with Kaep.

        4. OC

          In that you open it up to the rest of us, here’s my 2cents. No, I do not think that the niners should nor will sign him to an extension this off-season. He has a lot of proving to do to show that he is a franchise QB. The Niners won’t because unless CK learns to throw short to medium passes, we forfeit the West coast offense which is predicated on the short passes to have the same effect as a hand-off, but gets a runner/receiver past the Dlinemen. If a team has to defend against all of the progressions, they have to spread out to guard against RB’s, TE’s, WR’s and slots, and Hbacks. If that team only has to guard against a read N’ run QB, they only have to guard against the QB and RB. If our offense is geared around CK, we would have to draft a QB to back him up with the same capabilities as CK to guard against his getting hurt. Otherwise, you would need a complete new blocking scheme, as well as a complete new passing scheme. You would need two systems rather than one. Hey, if he develops better accuracy, and throws a more catchable pass, and learns to go through his progressions, then all bets are off….he’s got a long way to go. I say that they draft or find a FA QB with a proset background in the 3rd round.

          1. What part of this don’t you comprehend? But the reality is the 49ers kicked off contract talks with Kaepernick’s agents at the unmistakable corner window table at Prime 147 in Indianapolis a few weeks back — a ubiquitous hot spot that is overflowing with media, agents, GMs and coaches every night during the combine — so the club very much wants the league to know Kaepernick is their guy and they want to do a deal with him now (furthermore, these negotiations also serve as a positive public relations distraction from some of the nasty infighting going on in that organization these days, centered around coach Jim Harbaugh).

            So the reality is these sides are talking, right now, and we can only judge Kaepernick’s value based on what he has been able to display so far. And, to me, if you want to talk to this kid now about a contract, you had better be ready to meet him at $20 million a year.

            In another words, the 49ers believe Kaepernick is their guy and they made sure the other 31 teams knew it at the combine. This demonstrates he has nothing else to prove to convince them…..

            1. The funny thing is, given that Kaep wants near top 5 QB money per season, he’s the easiest guy of all to franchise. So get the Aldon and Crabs deals done now.

          2. Oregoniner,

            There’s very little WCO in this system. From the size of the Olinemen, to the blocking style, to the smash mouth mentality, this is more 1980′s NY Giants than 1980′s Niners..

            Also, Andrew Luck and Alex Smith have played in the same system and done very well. They don’t need to find another Kap in order to run this system.

            I’d be surprised to see them draft a QB before day 3 unless they get the compensatory pick at the end of round 3, but anything’s possible with all the picks they have.

          3. Great points Rocket

            Yea this is definitely no WCO from what I can see….I guess it looked a little more like it when Alex was here b/c he rarely threw pass 5 yds

            But yes this is a power running offense for sure with a lot of vertical passing. Maybe a little WCO sprinkled in. Its amazing how Kap continues to complete those deep passes with one of the slowest WR corp in the league….imagine getting him a legitimate deep threat

          4. Agree with Rocket and Leo, there is not much WCO left in current Niners though Harbaugh likes to say that there is. Or at least he did when Smith had the helm.

            So in that regard Fales would not be a very good fit — unless you wanted a very big surprise change up when / if CK should go down. That would require the Niner offense be comfortable with two very different schemes.

            A problem with the old original WCO being your bread and butter is that opposing teams have adapted and rules have changed since those glory days of the Walsh West Coast. How ever that does not leave out hybrid WCO versions to match current NFL trending.

          5. More on that hybrid WCO.

            Niners are currently a power run first type offense. Teams have answered that call. They load the box and and rely on press coverage to take care of first read passing game. A Fales type QB running a WCO layered into the power run scheme will mess with a defense bringing that answer.
            Somewhere mid field will be open and he is the type to find that open RB or TE or crossing WR after a first or second read. There in you have a power run up the gut with WC hybrid offense to answer current trend in defending 49ers.
            Fales (someday) can give you that option from the pocket. I still wonder if CK will ever……?

  41. With the success the warriors are experiencing during the current road trip and last nights performance i guess we wo’nt be seeing any more dump Mark Jackson articles.

    1. i like it… if Brown re-sign with the Niners then we can say either Rogers take a huge pay-cut or he is gone. And it will be even better if Wittner stays!

    2. I’d be very happy with re-signing him. Brown, Brock, Culliver and maybe Rogers on a lower amount. Would take the need away from drafting a CB early.

      1. No no — I strongly disagreee Scooter. This is a strong DB year that Niners cannot afford to pass on even at the top of the draft. CBs are I think strongest class over all with stars and depth in the class.
        If ever there was this is the year where they should take best available and at the bottom of first round that could very likely be a very good CB.
        Remember how we all criticize Balke for not being serious enough about CBs in draft. And case in point that is the Niner Achilles heal. This is the year for him to show us that he cares.

        1. I said it takes the need away Bruce. Nothing more and nothing less. If CB is the best value, take the player.

          I strongly disagree this is a good year for CBs though. And no way it is the strongest position in the draft. WR and OT are better.

          1. I think it has no bearing on such a move – I’ve never thought they’d go CB in the 1st round anyway. I’m not sold on the guys being touted as 1st rounders. 2nd/ 3nd round is where they should look at CB in my opinion. WR on the other hand is chock full of 1st round talent.

      2. Scooter:

        Would take the need away from drafting a CB early.

        Exactly. Doing so would allow Baalke to focus on taking the BPA

        … which I think he should do anyway, whether or not the 49ers re-sign Brown.

    3. I’m all for nailing down Brown and Whitner. With fewer “needs”, it gives Baalke more flexibility to go BPA come draft day.

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