Report: Kaepernick wants more money than Cutler and Romo

According to the Boston Globe, Colin Kaepernick wants a contract extension that is worth as much or more than the contract extensions Jay Cutler and Tony Romo recently signed.

The Cowboys gave Romo $18 million per season and $40 million guaranteed. The Bears gave Cutler $18.1 million per season and $38 million guaranteed. If you were the 49ers right now, would you give Kaepernick an $18.2-million-per-year contract extension with $40 million guaranteed? Should the 49ers give Kaepernick that kind of money this offseason?

I say no, and no.

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    1. There’s no way that Kaepernick should be making $1 million less annually than Peyton Manning, and that’s what would be happening if he gets the $18 million that he wants. They’re on completely different levels

    1. Did you read the article?

      If you didn’t, here’s an excerpt: “We hear that if the 49ers don’t get in Kaepernick’s range, the quarterback would be willing to play the 2014 season at his base salary of $973,766 and postpone negotiations until next offseason instead of signing a below-market deal.”

      1. I read it and what I said doesn’t change one bit. The negotiations have only just begun. You always come out asking for the world and acting like its the only thing you will accept.

        1. Kap also said he understands his contract affects who they can keep. It should surprise no one that the asking price starts at those numbers as he has already achieved more success than either Romo or Cutler, but there are different ways to set the contract up and with the cap going up to as much as 150 million by 2016, there is room to get it done.

        2. C4C,
          I agree with yours as well as rockets sentiments.

          And given the fact that Cutler and Romo can’t get their teams into the playoffs, it actually seems like Kaep is low-balling himself asking for monies in their range.

          But I personally don’t see the Org paying out this much especially if they want to sign other key players whose contracts are or will be coming due.

          I do love the news about re-upping Boldin for two more years. Boldin is a physical marvel even at his age and I could see him being an integral piece of the offense while he’s here.
          Now it becomes interesting on how the team will negotiate with Crabtree after this season. But a lot will depend on Patton’ development and possibly a WR free agent signing or WR draft pick if they are good enough to garner playing time.

      2. That sounds good, it would give us enough time to restructure some deals next offseason to raise more money.The only issue with that is that you risk other teams really swooping in to offer more money.

      3. This is tough to gauge. The pass offense was atrocious(30th), throwing receivers open, accurately with good footwork, all non-existent. However, he did accomplish more than Romo and Cutler. Looking at his potential, I’d say structure the contract so that it increases with the inflating cap, also include escalators or de-escalators based on his performance.

      4. Is this the same “Source” that said some 49er Players are wearing thin of Jimbo too?

        You can’t believe ANYTHING at this point that’s coming from the Media.

  1. It’s all in the details of the contract. It’s better to do it now, before Cam gets his new deal and raises the market price with an increasing salary cap. It all depends on how the contract is structured. Does he have to match incentives to see the 18M per year? De-escalators if he doesn’t play up to expectations? Guaranteed money on back-end of deal? Game day bonuses to protect us against injury? Etc…. It’s not the dollar amount we need to look at, but the terms.

    1. +18.2 million!!! The standard reporting of years/guaranteed money/total money is not enough information to truly judge this deal. I’ve read that the Cutler deal is 3 years 48 million, after which the bears can cut Cutler with no additional cap hit. That means the Cutler deal is basically 3 years at 16 per. Grant, if you truly want to go “Inside the 49ers”, you could at least address these kinds of contract specifics instead of glossing over these important details.

      1. I love how the title of article says “Kap wants more money than Romo or Cutler”, and then in the first paragraph says he wants “as much or more”. Two different narratives there.

        1. That’s a very mild version of editorial license to pump the blog. It’s so common here that it’s almost not worth pointing out.

  2. With the salary cap jumping to $133M and expected to have similar increases over the next several seasons, $18M/yr for a QB will be a bargain in 2-3 years. The fight will be in the amount of gauranteed money. Cutler and Romo have both had time to show their true potential so I would expect a contract in the 3-4 year range which would cause the gauranteed money to be considerably less to allow Colin to develop into a franchise QB.

  3. Of course you say No and No.

    Is he better than Romo and Cutler? Yes, by a mile. Did either of them deserve half of what Aaron Rodgers get? Not even close.

    Does Kaep deserve near what Rodgers got? I dunno, how many times has Kaep lost to Rodgers?

    If Kaep is the future, give him a ten year, $181 million deal with $45M guaranteed, and call it a day.

          1. That is not a Kapology; it’s a fact. He has beaten them at home and lost on the road, like pretty much every other QB who goes into that stadium. It’s also a team game last I checked and every facet needs to step up to win there.

          2. So what’s your point! Beating Seattle is a team goal. How many other QBs have beaten Seattle at home and make less than what ck is making?

          3. No, it’s nothing but a Kaepology Rocket. The best QBs can beat their toughest opponent on their own turf.

          4. Mid,

            Just stop it already. Wilson hasn’t beaten the Niners at the Stick. Rogers hasn’t beaten the Niners the past 4 times he’s played them. You are holding Kap to an unrealistic standard and ignoring the great success he’s had in a short period of time.

          5. Really? So nothing that happened before Gore’s run mattered? Wilson didn’t lose at the Stick? What’s your point?

          6. Just stop it already. Wilson hasn’t beaten the Niners at the Stick. Rogers hasn’t beaten the Niners the past 4 times he’s played them. You are holding Kap to an unrealistic standard and ignoring the great success he’s had in a short period of time.

            I don’t excuse Kaepologies Rocket.

          7. MWD:

            Your comments today have displayed a lot of venom towards Kaepernick, and you seemingly refuse to give him any credit for the 49ers’ success since he took over as starter. You are starting to read like some of the Alex haters back in 2011-12. What’s up with that?

          8. Claude,

            It’s ironic isn’t it? Mid was arguing the same things I am about Kap now when it was Alex Smith, but now that it’s Kap, mmm not so much.

          9. No venom Claude, but to excuse Kaep for not getting past his first read because of the WR corps is ridiculous. I give credit to Kaep for what he has been able to do, but I also do not excuse what he fails to do. I did that when Smith the effective game manager was here and I’m not going to change my stance just because of a big-armed QB with freakish running skills named Kaepernick.

    1. If Grant reported it this way then he wouldn’t get blog hits. Btw E this is exactly the contract he will get.

    2. Is kap better than Cutler and Romo??? I have seen romo and cutler get to their third progressions- have i seen that from kap? Nope.

      I have seen that kap can make a pretty good running back. Seeing as a hall of fame rb makes 6 mill per year- 18 mil seems silly.

      The niners should draft a good qb- use harbaughs ability to scout qbs and look to move kap through a trade. If another team takes kap on a transition tag next year- the niners could get two first rounders for kap- that would be sweet… Eveb sweeter, i would never have to listen to kap’s insufferable press conferences again- score!

      1. Big Suede,
        I agree with you. This team is not noticeably any better/different than with Alex Smith at the helm. Certainly not an additional $8-$10 million per year better. Kaep has not demonstrated that he is a “franchise QB” to the extent that I’d be comfortable paying him as such.
        However….in the NFL, you’ve gotta gamble when it comes to contracts, it’s the nature of the business. The question is how much they’ll be willing to gamble on Kaep improving his passing skills going forward. He has the “potential” to be great, but that and a dollar will get you a $1 cup of coffee.

        If I’m the 49ers I insist on an escalator heavy contract that rewards certain milestones. There’s some advanced stats out there that show Kaep isn’t getting it done as a top shelf passer.

        1. I disagree Angus and Suede.
          Our prime objective is to beat the c-hawks. We saw what the hawks defense did to perhaps the best pocket passer (P.Manning) in game during the superbowl.

          I’m convinced that CK’ running ability is the winning ticket against the hawks. And had Kaep been allowed to do more running in the 2nd half of the championship game … well who knows.
          Neither Romo, Cutler, or Alex Smith could have beat the hawks last year.
          Sure, Alex Smith beat the c-hawks when he was with the 49ers, but the c-hawks have greatly improved from the time AS last beat them.

          I know it’s absolutely hypothetical on my part, but again, I don’t see the 3 aforementioned QB’ having a better chance then CK of beating Seattle.

          1. Eh- we disagree then. Having watched Alex Smith last year- i think Smith could have beat the seahawks in the nfc championship game. Unlike kaep- smith has a great ability to throw to any wr that is open without zeroing in on crabtree no matter what.

            I was the big proponant of kaepernick when he first came in- but he just isnt the qb i was hoping for. The niners would be better off looking for a successor to kaep and trying to trade kaep while his value is high.

  4. How many times can a team franchise tag the QB? And what would be the projected price for a franchise tag QB in 2015?

  5. Nobody with only 23 starts under his belt is worth $18M per year and $40M guaranteed. Let him play and win the big one and everybody will say he has earned it. Salaries are based upon one’s productivity not what they think they would like to attain down the road. Pay for results, not promises. Same for the head coach. Flores had 2 SB wins in first 5 years as HC in Oakland/LA.

    1. just because other clubs overpay does not provide justification for a QB still under contract to get a monster new deal. Jerry Jones, the Lions and the Bears can overpay if they so choose, but the Niners can go with their own philosophy. Now, if CK was in a position to be a FA and the Niners franchised him, then they have to pay to keep him, but as long as he has years remaining on his deal, he is bound by his contract to which he and his agent agree. Let him play for another year and see how he does. If he is playing again in late January and early February and winning, then pay him his due.

    2. So why don’t draft picks, who have done nothing in the NFL, get incentive laced contracts? Because in the National Football League you are paid as much on potential as you are on results. Just facts.

    3. Kaepernick has 29 starts, and he has something Culter and Romo do not have. Multiple playoff victories. That’s production that has real value.

      1. The 49ers have multiple playoff victories, not Kaepernick. We have had a dynasty level defense for 4 years and zero trophies to show for it.

        This team is not significantly better with Kaep at the helm than it was with Alex Smith.

        1. Careful, Angus, that kind of talk is going to get you in trouble with the real fans. Or at least with the real fanboys.

        2. I don’t disagree with you Angus, but we do have one of the best teams in the league and a QB who is underpaid and worthy of a long term deal according to the QB market.

          Continuing to look back at Smith and the money he signed for ignores some pretty relevant points:

          A) Smith took that deal because he had few options and wanted to stay here

          and

          B) If Smith had continued as the starting QB and achieved what Kap has achieved the past two seasons, we would be going through this with him and his agent asking for 18 mill, because that is what guys who put together a resume like this get paid in this league.

        3. You may be right about that Angus. But let’s at least be fair and put Alex Smith in the category of not winning a SB when he was the starting QB for as you say “a dynasty level defense” as well.

          Kaep has done something Smith that has not done. He has taken the team to a Superbowl and two championship games.
          We don’t how Smith may have done had played in these games if he was still our starter.
          What we do have is facts regarding Kaepernick taking us to these higher levels.
          Another fact we have and this one is concrete as well. Kaep has done this in 2.5 seasons.

          If we’re going to administer ‘what if’s’ concerning Kaep vs Smith, at least give Kaep a few seasons of play before making a fair comparison.

    4. I completely agree with you that 23 regular season (17-6) starts should not be worth $18 per, but unfortunately those SIX postseason starts (4-2, with 3 road wins) is going to drive the price up.

      Here are the highest paid Quarterbacks to not win the Big One.

      $20.8 Ryan: 1-4 in postseason
      $18.1 Cutler: 1-1 in postseason
      $18.0 Romo: 1-3 in postseason
      $17.7 Stafford: 0-1 in postseason

      It really sucks for the 49ers that these teams overpaid for these players. Looks like the market had been set.

    5. lol – OKAY. That worked out great for the Ravens right? They didn’t want to pay Flacco $17-18M a year, so he went out and won a super bowl and now they have to pay him like $21M a year. If KAP wins a superbowl, his leverage and price will go UP, not stay the same. On top of that, wait until Cam Newton gets a $20M+ contract next year. That will be what KAP wants if we wait until then. With the new salary cap expected to rise over $10M and more in the coming years, $18M will be considered a bargain for “franchise qb”.

    6. Nobody with only 23 starts under his belt is worth $18M per year and $40M guaranteed. Let him play and win the big one and everybody will say he has earned it. Salaries are based upon one’s productivity not what they think they would like to attain down the road. Pay for results, not promises. Same for the head coach. Flores had 2 SB wins in first 5 years as HC in Oakland/LA

      Nice in theory Mike, but that is not how this league works. Scan the list of the highest paid QB’s and many don’t have a SB under their belt and haven’t won playoff games. The QB position comes at a premium and there is no putting the rabbit back in the hat in this regard. 18 mill now becomes 20+ later no matter if Kap wins a SB or not. The only thing that can drop his price is him completely falling apart and that is not likely to happen.

      For those saying let him play it out, I say prepare to pay more no matter what happens next year. The Niners will not dump Kap if he doesn’t win a SB, and will still be sitting there with having to give him a new deal, only now they face having to franchise tag him which will be in the 16-18 mill range and will all be on next years cap making their ability to retain other FA’s much less likely.

      I get the reluctance to pay that kind of money to one player, but that is the league now. QB’s get paid a lot of money and if guys like Stafford, Cutler and Romo are making 18 mill while having had no success in postseason, that is what the Niners are staring at as a starting point with Kap.

      1. Scan the list of the highest paid QB’s and many don’t have a SB under their belt and haven’t won playoff games

        Most of them can throw to more than one type of WR.

        1. Kaep only throws to possession type WRs which make him look better. The highest paid QBs can generally throw to any type of WR and make them look better.

          1. So Randy Moss was a possession WR? Those deep throws to Davis last year were possession throws? C’mon Mid. He’s had to play most of his first two seasons with either Crabs and no good option on the other side, or Boldin and no good option on the other side. We have all said forever that this team lacks at the WR position. It’s disingenuous to criticize Kap for that.

          2. So Randy Moss was a possession WR?

            No. He was a washed up has-been.

            Those deep throws to Davis last year were possession throws?

            Davis was a TE the last time I checked ergo he doesn’t count in a discussion about WRs.

            He’s had to play most of his first two seasons with either Crabs and no good option on the other side, or Boldin and no good option on the other side.

            Yet he wants to be paid like a QB who is able to make any WR better, which he currently doesn’t do.

            We have all said forever that this team lacks at the WR position. It’s disingenuous to criticize Kap for that.

            No, but there is valid criticism for him not getting his first read, ignoring a wide open receiver, or staring down his read which increases the chances of him being intercepted.

          3. Mid,

            You said he can only throw to possession receivers. That is not correct period. If he had a WR who could beat people deep then you could comment on it. Until then, we go with what we see which is that he can throw to both kinds of receivers.

            He wants to be paid like a QB with his resume would. Your personal beliefs on how good he is or needs to improve on do not factor into the equation. The team and player base a contract on what transpires on the field, wins and losses and the players conduct off the field. Kap deserves what he’s asking for if you look at this honestly instead of freaking out over what a QB makes in todays NFL.

          4. Mid, would you have felt confident throwing to Williams or Moore?

            And yes, when it comes to the passing game the TEs matter in the discussion of receivers. Especially in an offense that runs a lot of multiple TE sets.

          5. If he had a WR who could beat people deep then you could comment on it.

            The fact that he leans greatly on Boldin and Crabtree says otherwise.

            Until then, we go with what we see which is that he can throw to both kinds of receivers.

            Your previous sentence in this post makes this a double standard.

            He wants to be paid like a QB with his resume would.

            A resume that is a combination of Alex Smith and Mark Sanchez along with a running ability. Awesome.

            Your personal beliefs on how good he is or needs to improve on do not factor into the equation. The team and player base a contract on what transpires on the field, wins and losses and the players conduct off the field. Kap deserves what he’s asking for if you look at this honestly instead of freaking out over what a QB makes in todays NFL.

            I wonder how many people made the same ignorant argument for Mark Sanchez.

          6. Mid, would you have felt confident throwing to Williams or Moore?

            Williams and Moore weren’t great, but Kaep didn’t help their cause with focusing on Security Blanket 1 and then 2.

            And yes, when it comes to the passing game the TEs matter in the discussion of receivers.

            Had I said just receivers, your statement would be valid Scooter. But I said WRs, which is a completely different category of receiver.

  6. That’s the market for an above average starting QB in the National Football League. Romo and Cutler are top 15 but not top 10 QB’s in the NFL. You could easily argue Kaep is better (and getting better) than both and his playoff record tips the scales of any argument. The salary Cap just jumped $12M and is about to jump again in ’15 another $10-12M. This contract will not be an issue.

  7. Pay me now or pay me later. He will be paid. He is better than either Romo or Cutler. When and if he gets to free agency he will brake somebody’s bank. I think 18.2 mil would be a bargain. I don’t see it as a negotiation I see it as a fair deal.

  8. No way to both. If Kaepernick is willing to play out his contract this year as this report suggests I would force him to do it. Make him earn it, and if the cap is going to increase as much as some think it will there will plenty of room next year to give it to him.

    1. You’re missing the point. If we wait until next year, the price will be INCREASED. What if he wins a super bowl this year? What if CAM gets $21M from the Panthers? He will have all the leverage, and the cost to sign him will exceed the $18M he’s asking for right now. Which is why it’s paramount that we sign him now, before the price jumps up (it will).

      We need to lock him up now, before other franchise QBs start getting $21-24M/year, with the projected salary cap increases.

      1. I’ll take that gamble. Colin already has the leverage if he is willing to play it out, and if it gives him more leverage by winning the Super Bowl so be it. At that point I’ve received exactly what I want.

        I would have no problem at all giving him a Flacco type deal in 2015 if he earns it.

          1. Leo,

            Flacco had a cap number of $6.8 million this season, and will have cap numbers of $14.8 and $14.55 million in 2014 and 2015. Blaming his contract on the players that they lost is inaccurate. The Ravens wanted to get younger for the future.

        1. Sign Jim/Colin and the free agents will want to continue to come here at a reduced rate. Put out the fires of speculation. Eddie would pay them both so they could get on with conquering their Seahawk demons….

          1. No, but they should start looking somewhere around round 3.

            Even if Kaepernick plays out his deal next year the 49ers can still hold onto him for 2 more seasons with the Franchise tag. This year that number would only a little over $16 million. Based on how much it moved up from 2013 we can estimate that in 2015 it will be around $19 million.

            If they want him, he’s not going anywhere regardless.

          2. Even if Kaepernick plays out his deal next year the 49ers can still hold onto him for 2 more seasons with the Franchise tag. This year that number would only a little over $16 million. Based on how much it moved up from 2013 we can estimate that in 2015 it will be around $19 million.

            If they want him, he’s not going anywhere regardless

            Except the problem is 16-19 mill against the cap forces you to let other players go and weaken your team. Signing a long term deal now allows you to control the cap hits for the next few years as you pointed out up above with Flacco.

        2. Exactly. If he gets the deal and regresses.. We are stuck with him. Let him play out the year & if he brings home #6 then thats when you PAY DA MAN!!

        3. You’re missing the point again. By 2015, it’s going to be more than a Flacco deal. The price is going to go higher and higher every single year with the new salary cap increases. Why would someone be happy paying $24M a year for a QB they could’ve gotten for $18M just 2 years earlier? Makes no sense at all.

          You have to treat NFL players like the stock market. You want to buy low and sell high. Not wait until the stock is at the highest point possible, and THEN buy. Besides, if you’re worried about the risk, there’s likely clauses in the contract that would allow the 49ers to avoid the final years of the deal if expectations aren’t met.

          1. Of course it will be more, but the cap will also be more. The % of the cap space taken up by the QB would be the same.

          2. The cap will go up regardless of if they sign him now or next year. The difference is the longer you wait the more the price goes up. Unless the team feels he’s not their QB of the present and future, there is no reason to wait. Nothing is gained by having him play out his deal if you believe he’s the guy and he’s really given them no reason to feel that way with the results on the field.

      2. I’m starting to agree after reading a few comments here. With the cap increasing substantially year to year the effect of his contract maybe manageable. Now if we do sign him for 18 mil I wonder if we’d be able to re-sign Crabs as well, next year. Iupati will likely be gone I would assume, but Crabs plays a big role with Kap, he’s his go to guy. This is definately a big year for Crabs. If he proves himself a true #1 receiver we can probably wave good-bye because there’s no way we’re paying him that kinda money.

    2. Jack,

      He’s already earned a big deal with his play in the playoffs the past two years. What is it you expect him to prove next year? Is it SB or bust for you? Do you honestly think they are going to dump Kap if he has another season similar to this past one and they don’t win a SB?

      They have no other option, and drafting Fales in the 5th round if the so choose doesn’t change that with the resume of winning Kap has already put in place. They have a guy just entering his prime who has led them to a SB and NFCCG appearance in his first season and half of starting. His athleticism and work ethic are off the charts. He doesn’t get into trouble off the field and has become a leader in the locker room. Oh and he just so happens to win 70+ % of the games he starts.

      What is it we are supposed to wait for exactly?

      1. The 49ers were losing 24-14 to the Falcons at halftime of the NFC Championship. In the second half, Kaepernick completed seven passes and scored zero touchdowns. For that, he is worth more than Alex Smith?

        1. Grant,

          Look at the game as a whole instead of focusing on situational stats. They came back and won the game. Kap was the QB and played well, while doing what needed to be done to win that game. You can play this type of game with every QB in the league because all benefit from outlying factors just like Kap at times.

          Kap is a winner. It’s indisputable with the results he’s put up. He’s not going to be a statistical Fantasy Champion in this offensive system. The only way to gauge him is his ability to lead this team to wins and not be the cause of losses and for the most part he’s been in the top ten in both categories.

        2. Weren’t we also losing like 0-17 in first half. RIGHT – let’s just pick up the story at half time, and pretend that KAP doesn’t deserve any credit for coming back from such a large deficit on the road.

          And I’m sure that Gore would have just as big of running lanes, if the outside DE wasn’t consistently spying on KAP in the read-option, allowing huge holes to run through and score in. Let’s pretend KAP didn’t affect our run-game’s success.

          1. Grant,

            So what? He played within the offense, did what they asked him to do and won a playoff game on the road. Trying to knock the guy for not having better passing numbers is ridiculous.

      2. He hasn’t earned $18 million per season. So far he has put up Alex Smith type numbers and the 49ers only gave Smith about $8.5 average.

        You and others bring up the wins, and those are there but Kaepernick has a much better team around him than Cutler, Romo, Stafford, etc.

          1. The 49ers defense gave up 17 points per game in 2013. The Bears gave up 29.9 points per game. The Cowboys gave up 27 points per game. Detroit gave up 23.5 points per game.

        1. Kaep has a better offense around him than Stafford, Romo, and Cutler? Seriously?

          He’s a record-setting QB who has revolutionized the position in 29 games.

          1. Some revolution. Numbers lower than the QB that he replaced (who mind you had less receiving options plus no games throwing for over 300 yards) and zero championships to boot.

        2. They paid Smith 8.5 because there wasn’t much of a market for him and they only had one year of working with him. It’s not the same situation with Kaepernick who they have worked with for 3 years, and who would have a huge market for his services if he ever made it to FA.

          Cutler had one of the best defenses in the league backing him up in Chicago. He had a great team around him in Denver. Romo had very good teams around him going back to Parcells and was the guy who choked in the big game seemingly every year. Stafford has the best WR in the game yet throws huge amounts of picks and like Romo, often costs his team games.

          There are mitigating factors in every game a QB plays, but Kap wins, the others you mentioned don’t.

          1. Doesn’t mean that he is worth the same as those overrated and overpaid QBs, especially if he claims that he okay with a deal that allows the team to keep key components and remain competitive.

          2. Mid,

            The cat is already out of the bag. Those overpaid QB’s have set the market price for the position along with many others. You aren’t getting Kap at a below market contract. You aren’t looking at this realistically, you are looking at it as a fan who doesn’t want his team spending so much on one player. That is the league now. Get used to it.

          3. You are completely missing my point Rocket. I don’t mind the team paying Kaep what he wants as long as he has earned it, which he hasn’t even come close to doing.

          4. According to the market he has earned it. You wanting to see improvement in fundamentals doesn’t change that.

          5. According to the market he has earned it. You wanting to see improvement in fundamentals doesn’t change that.

            Isn’t that the same market that said that Romo, Sanchez, Cutler, and Vick earned it? Where did that get the Cowboys, Jets, Bears, and Eagles?

  9. Should the 9ers pay CK what he is asking for? I do’nt know. They are certainly stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. If they sign him now and he does’nt continue to develop this season you are possibly stuck with a QB who is way over valued. On the other hand wait and see how his continued development goes this yr and if he plays very well then more than likely you can kiss him goodbye. I believe the 9ers need to draft a QB this year and i do’nt mean in the middle or late rds.

    1. old coach,

      My point is even if he stays at the level he is now, which is not likely considering his work ethic, he’s already earned this type of deal on the league market scale. We can see lesser QB’s earning this type of money right now. That is why I see no upside to waiting. I don’t know what waiting does for the team other than possibly cripple what they can do going forward if they have to franchise him.

    2. Its a gamble. The Ravens waited to re-sign Flacco, then paid a big price to retain him. Had they extended his contract the year before, they could have kept Boldin.

      The choices are:
      - Give Kaepernick what he wants now. If he fails to develop the 49ers will be saddled with dad money for years to come. If he succeeds the 49ers will have a star QB with a (relatively) cap friendly contract.
      - Wait another season to see how he progresses. If he stinks, the 49ers dodged a huge dead money bullet. If he has a great 2014, signing him will cost far more then 18m.

      I’d offer 13-15m with escalator clauses… and frequent reminders that if not for the 49ers, he would have been a Raider.

      1. Brodie,

        Whether he develops further or not, they know they can win a lot of games and be in SB contention with him. Him developing into a better pocket QB would be great, but he’s already shown he can win right now. That is the point being missed by many on here today.

          1. Sanchez was never a top ten QB in anything. In fact he was usually bottom 3rd. He also didn’t take the Jets to a SB. This Sanchez comparison that has been done the past few weeks is complete nonsense.

          2. Kaepernick didn’t take the 49′ers to the Superbowl. If you wanna say anyone took them, the defense did.

            Kaepernick is a poor pocket passer but adds a very dangerous weapon to the offense with his ability to run. I’m repeating myself here but….the 49ers haven’t noticeably improved from Smith to Kaep.

            In fact, I’d go so far as saying that Kaep is one of the most over-rated players in the entire NFL right now. People are assuming he’ll make this great leap as a passer. Prove it. Don’t overpay him.

          3. Mid

            I know you have personal issues with my past posts, but face it, you are driving a tremendous conceit by comparing Mark Sanchez to Colin Kaepernick.

            It’s obvious you are a Smither. I too liked Smith for what he was, a safe bet as long as he had help and good coaching. Kaep is not a safe bet, but he also has the highest ceiling of any man to ever play the position, and he’s proven it already. The record-setting rushing performances, the QBR, the 2 NFCCG and 1 SB appearances, the 63 yard frozen rope to Vernon Davis. Kaep is undeniably the most physically gifted player to ever get behind center. Not only that, but he turned down a professional baseball contract out of high school because he loves football, he shows up before and leaves after all of his teammates and many coaches, he treats his body like a temple, and he never gets in trouble.

            Mid, you’ve got some explaining to do. Kaep deserves to be paid as much as any QB in the game, and if the Niners wait until he wins a SB, he’ll demand more, and get it.

          4. It’s obvious you are a Smither. I too liked Smith for what he was, a safe bet as long as he had help and good coaching.

            And there is a difference with Kaep…how?

            Kaep is not a safe bet, but he also has the highest ceiling of any man to ever play the position, and he’s proven it already. The record-setting rushing performances, the QBR, the 2 NFCCG and 1 SB appearances, the 63 yard frozen rope to Vernon Davis. Kaep is undeniably the most physically gifted player to ever get behind center. Not only that, but he turned down a professional baseball contract out of high school because he loves football, he shows up before and leaves after all of his teammates and many coaches, he treats his body like a temple, and he never gets in trouble.

            That still doesn’t mean that he is a $18.2 million a year QB.

            Mid, you’ve got some explaining to do.

            Two questions: why do I have to explain myself and will you be providing me enough crayons to color the picture?

            Kaep deserves to be paid as much as any QB in the game, and if the Niners wait until he wins a SB, he’ll demand more, and get it.

            And like I said before, I will join in the ‘Pay The Man What He Wants’ when he does that or takes the next step to becoming an effective passer, but he has yet to do either of those things.

      2. The Ravens could have kept Boldin last year even with Flacco’s contract if they wanted to. They wanted to get younger and felt good with the two young guys they already had.

        Unfortunately their crystal ball didn’t show them Pitta being lost for the majority of the season in training camp.

    3. Since we are going to get the 19th pick this year for Harbaugh, and will have a defensive line coach running the show this year, there is no reason to extend CK’s contact this year. Draft a quarterback and let CK go at the end of his contract. Maybe he will wind up with Harbaugh in 2015.

      Our 2015 cap space should be up there with the Colts 2014 cap space.

  10. Thanks a lot bears and cowboys for overpaying your QBs. Romo, though makes up that entire offense, is aging and hasn’t been able to lead his team when it counts. Cutler has done nothing, literally nothing. They were way overpaid and have set the market for the above average QB that have not won the big one. I do not think its unfathomable for Kap to be asking to be paid as much as them. Though he only has 20+ starts he has already accomplished more than the both of them combined.

    However from the teams perspective I would still fight to get him right around 16 mil but include escalators. I really need to see him improve as a passer and leader before I’m willing to commit that kind of money to him. But the gamble is if he does improve substantially as a passer and wins the SB than we’re screwed, but we could use the franchise tag then, but it would be a short term solution.

    Maybe the solution is right in the middle around 17 mil or so.

    1. Leo,

      I agree with you that those players are overpaid, but that is the reality of QB money in the NFL and they will have to pay it sooner or later. The bonus you get by doing it now is the ability to manipulate the cap charges. With him counting so little against this years cap and having as much as 18-20 mill if they cut or renegotiate Rogers deal, you can move more into this year to bring down the hits in later years. You can also move the bigger base salaries to later years when the cap will be much higher that it is now.

      The Niners have far more flexibility if they sign him now as opposed to letting him play out his deal.

    2. CK seems to have done a pretty good job of elevating the range for his new contract. If he’s asking 18 and hearing 16 then he’s doing alright.

  11. Like Harbaugh, Kaepernick will get paid, under the assumption that he does not completely crash and burn in 2014.
    What they will get, will be what the market determines not what us fans think they are worth.

    If Kaepernick plans to play this last season under his original contract, Baalke better find a QB in this draft…and another receiver too, it’s unlikely Crabtree will take a below market deal.

  12. He’ll NO! I say we let him play 2014 for the one million and see how he does. I’ve got issues with Kap right now. Let’s see if he improves in all the areas that we all complain about. Let’s see if he can win games with those attributes next year. He may not be worth it. Let him go someplace else and crash and burn before he holds this team hostage. I’m not convinced yet that he has the mental capacity to be a top 7 QB in this league. I’ve seen too many bonehead mistakes for $18 mil.

    1. There’s no way you pay Kaep 18 mil. For all that talent and success, he’s still unproven as a passer. That’s way too much money for a QB that still can’t see the whole field. Make him sweat out his last season and prove that’s he belongs in that category with Romo and Cutler. Put those guys on the Niners behind that Defense with targets like Bolding, Crabs and VD and guaranteed the Niners are not 30th in passing. For 18 mil you can get an elite dude to come in here and win.
      Big Suede it best — Kaep is running threat and those guys make 6 mil a year.Until Kaep shows he can consistently make defenses pay for stacking 8 and 9 in a box, and be productive i the red zone when everything is on the line, he is not worth more money then what Alex Smith got.
      That’s a fool’s bet to pay him that much right now when he still has so many question marks.

          1. So you don’t watch the games? Did you not see the pass he completed to VD, the perfect pass he put in VMacs breadbasket, the checkdown to Gore that Gore dropped?

            The more you disclaim Kaep’s talent, the less credible you appear.

            And to your above comment, if you need crayons to draw your little picture, ask your parents to take you to the crayon gittin place.

  13. No and no. Let him play out the year like he says he is willing to do. This isnt like the Harbaugh situation where its arguable who needs who more. At this point, Kaep needs the 49ers more than they need him.

  14. Trade him now. Any deal like this debilitates a franchise. No one player should deserve that type of money. I’d say it is very selfish of him if this report was true.
    A franchise qb could be a great thing but also a curse when it comes to paying him. If they pay him that, then who would they lose in the future? Would This Deal Destroy The Chances Of Winning Like It Did To Baltimore? Or does it mean we need even better drafting to replenish 2-3 superstars yearly to insure salary cap health?
    Does he deserve it? I Didn’t Notice Real Improvement In His Game This year, So WHY Pay HIM That Much?
    I guess there goes the 12-15 million we had hoped for……

    1. Right – I’m sure we can just pick up a FA QB and start competing for a super bowl. Look at all the money we’d save. In Colt McCoy we trust.

      1. We don’t have to – he HAS to play the next year under his current contract. The niner’s can franchise him for the next two years after that. I agree – give the contract only once he’s earned it. And anyone who watched the team play this year and thinks that he is the reason they were so successful is blinded by his gazelle like running cuz thats really all he brings to the table.

      2. Geez Dan,
        My hands are wringing…where oh where will we find a QB who can even come close to the numbers Kaep put up with the 30th ranked passing game! Oh, we must pay the QB who’s the key piece in our 30th ranked passing game!!!!

        1. Angus have you really looked around at the quality of QB’s in the NFL after about the top 15 it is pretty terrible. Josh Freeman is a perfect example.

    2. … and we know for a fact, based on our last full time head coach’s analysis, that a quarterback is no more important to winning in the NFL than any other position player.

  15. That is beyond ridiculous. He hasn’t started enough games or done enough in the games to even warrant that eccentric amount. If he had more games under his belt and the numbers among the top 5, then I would be okay with the team paying him that much. But he isn’t even close. He also needs to show that he doesn’t need to security blankets of Boldin and Crabtree in order to be successful.

    1. Security blankets? You mean WRs? Let’s just line up Kilgore at WR, and THEN see if he can earn a new $18M contract!

      I mean, not every QB has the luxury of throwing to WRs, amiright?

      1. You like telling everybody that they are missing the point, but guess what? You just did the same thing. Boldin and Crabtree are his security blankets because they are the only WRs that he trusts to throw to. They make him better and not vise versa. Any QB who makes the money that Kaep wants to needs to be able to throw to more than one type of WR and make them better.

        1. Well guess what? The 49ers don’t have any WR talent outside of Boldin and Crabtree. You think Peyton Manning would still be probowl if he was throwing to AJ Jenkins, Kyle Williams, Kassim Osgood, and Jon Baldwin?

        2. Mid,

          He’s done well with WR’s who can actually play at this level. He was doing fine with Manningham before he got injured. He and Moss made some plays even though Moss was in your words “washed up.” He and Patton made a big play to win the game in AZ even though he had little time with Patton due to injury. You are plucking things out of the air that aren’t true man.

          1. He’s done well with WR’s who can actually play at this level.

            He’s done well with his security blankets in Boldin and Crabtree and not much else.

            He was doing fine with Manningham before he got injured. He and Moss made some plays even though Moss was in your words “washed up.”

            In 10 games with Kaep as the starter, Manningham caught 22 passes for 236 yards and no TDs. That’s an average of 10.73 yards a game.
            In 7 games with Kaep as the starter, Moss caught 13 passes for 180 yards and 1 TD. That’s an average of 25.71 yards a game.

            He and Patton made a big play to win the game in AZ even though he had little time with Patton due to injury.

            Patton is an example of a possession WR.

            You are plucking things out of the air that aren’t true man.

            No, you are choosing to ignore the screaming facts.

          2. Mid,

            He’s done well with his security blankets in Boldin and Crabtree and not much else.

            Not true at all. He’s done well with Davis as well. Beyond those three he hasn’t had much else and he’s only had the three together for less than half a season.

            In 10 games with Kaep as the starter, Manningham caught 22 passes for 236 yards and no TDs. That’s an average of 10.73 yards a game.

            You really need to check your facts. Kap only had a little over 3 games as a starter with Manningham in 2012 before Manningham tore his ACL. In those 3 and a quarter games, Manningham caught 13 passes.for 151 yards. That’s over 60 catches if spread out over the course of a full season. Manningham was obviously not remotely healthy enough to be a factor this season.

            In 7 games with Kaep as the starter, Moss caught 13 passes for 180 yards and 1 TD. That’s an average of 25.71 yards a game.

            And caught another 7 in the playoffs. Not sure what your point is here. Moss was the 4th option until Manningham got hurt. Ending up with 20 catches in the ten games Kap started is pretty good.

            Patton is an example of a possession WR.

            The play was made deep down the sideline. That was not a Possession type play at all.

            No, you are choosing to ignore the screaming facts.

            When you actually present one I promise I won’t ignore it.

    2. Mid,

      He was top ten in both QBR and QB rating this past season. He’s led them to a SB and NFCCG appearance in his first two years starting. His numbers will never rival the top stat QB’s because he doesn’t play in an offensive system that allows for that to happen. Your point about him needing security blankets is ridiculous considering Boldin and Crabtree are all that he’s had the past two years. He’s also thrown to Davis to the tune of 13TDs this past season. In other words he can play with what he has and the 2nd WR for most of the past two years has been average to below.

      1. He was top ten in both QBR and QB rating this past season.

        Two overrated stats.

        He’s led them to a SB and NFCCG appearance in his first two years starting.

        He helped lead the team to a Super Bowl appearance when the other teams had no idea what he was capable of in the run game. The other part however is true.

        His numbers will never rival the top stat QB’s because he doesn’t play in an offensive system that allows for that to happen.

        It has more to do with the fact that he gets lost if he can’t throw to his first read.

        Your point about him needing security blankets is ridiculous considering Boldin and Crabtree are all that he’s had the past two years.

        That’s nothing but a Kaepology.

        He’s also thrown to Davis to the tune of 13TDs this past season.

        Put Davis on any team and I’m sure they will find a way to get him the ball.

        In other words he can play with what he has and the 2nd WR for most of the past two years has been average to below.

        In other words, the WRs around Kaep make him better and not vise versa.

        1. QBR is not an overrated stat, as it almost always reveals the WINNER of the game, and Kaep has had the 2nd highest QBR to start a career of any QB in the history of the league.

          1. Less than impressive numbers? What numbers are you talking about? He’s not going to throw for 30+ TD’s and 4000-5000 yards in this offense because they throw the ball the least of any team in the league. He ranks top ten in the ratings and YPA, which are predicated on how many times he throws the ball like yards and TD’s are.

          2. He also plays on a team that puts him in good positions. It’s easy to throw a play-action 35 yd td when you’re up by 21 in the 3rd qtr and the losing team is taking risks and expecting runs.

            He’s a less than stellar pocket passer, just set the stats aside, and look at what your eyes are telling you.

            1. Kaepernick’s passer rating w/o play action was 81.6 last season.

              Alex Smith’s passer rating w/o play action was 88.

          3. Angus,

            He also plays in an offense that holds him back at times. It goes both ways. My eyes tell me the Niners have one of the most athletically gifted QB’s this league has ever seen. They tell me he can play on the big stage and beat a team in many different ways.

            Learning to play from the pocket is important and he’s still learning that part of the game. Meanwhile all he’s done is win 21 out of 29 games as the starter and it’s not all due to defense and being a good situation. Just have a look at the Packer games if you need a reminder.

        2. Mid,

          Stop and look at this situation without thinking about the money. Whether you think the QBR and QB rating stats are overrated or not, he’s excelled in both and that is one of the few real things you can rank QB’s with. You also seem to be over looking the key stat he’s been at the top of the league in: wins.

          His numbers are what they are because he plays in a running offense. His passing attempts are near the bottom of the league which means he’s not going to throw for 5000 yards and 30+ TD’s. You have to base the contract on what he’s done for you in the system he’s been put in and he’s done very well to the point of winning on the road in the postseason and going to a SB and two NFCCG’s. You can’t tuck things like that under the rug and say “yeah but” because you think he needs to improve his progressions and footwork. It’s a performance business as you said, and his performances have led to a 70+ winning percentage. He’s earned the money you don’t think he deserves. Sorry but that is the truth.

          1. Smith has gone 30-10 in the last three seasons with one cut short but I don’t think he is worth $15 million. Kaep put up less than impressive numbers this past season, so he isn’t even close to worth $18.2 million.

          2. This should have gone here.

            Less than impressive numbers? What numbers are you talking about? He’s not going to throw for 30+ TD’s and 4000-5000 yards in this offense because they throw the ball the least of any team in the league. He ranks top ten in the ratings and YPA, which are predicated on how many times he throws the ball like yards and TD’s are.

          3. He’s not going to throw for 30+ TD’s and 4000-5000 yards in this offense because they throw the ball the least of any team in the league.

            It’s more that Kaep can’t get past his first read or find the open receiver.

            He ranks top ten in the ratings and YPA, which are predicated on how many times he throws the ball like yards and TD’s are.

            That doesn’t make him worth $18.2 million a year.

  16. Kap has flaws, yes, but let’s take a pause and ask ourselves, what are their chances of drafting/signing someone better? This coming year, the next one, etc.? I think close to zero. But let’s assume they were able to. Then how long would it take for that guy to get up to speed? And then consider how better Kap could be with more training/experience and/or in a more dynamic offense. I think the Niners would be making a huge mistake if they didn’t extend him now.

    1. “I think the Niners would be making a huge mistake if they didn’t extend him now.”

      Why? They basically own his rights for the next 3 years anyway.

      1. Simple – the price will go up another $5-6M per year if we wait. Why wait 3 years and then pay him $25M a year, when you could’ve locked him up for $18M?

        It’s not whether we can lock him up or not. It’s the price at which we can lock him up. The market prices are going to be higher for everyone in 1 or 2 years, which is why it would hurt us to wait. And what if he wins a superbowl this year? You think he’ll be still willing to sign for $18M? think again

        1. Simple – the price will go up another $5-6M per year if we wait. Why wait 3 years and then pay him $25M a year, when you could’ve locked him up for $18M?

          So you’re willing to risk having a Mark Sanchez situation on our hands instead of having Kaep prove that he is worth that ridiculous amount?

          1. Well, KAP has gone to 2 straight NFC Championship games and has a 4-2 record in the playoffs. You don’t think that’s worth anything? That’s more playoff wins that Cutler and Romo COMBINED.

          2. You didn’t answer my question. And I think both Romo and Cutler are overpaid, so that argument is null and void.

          3. That’s more playoff wins that Cutler and Romo COMBINED

            And the same number as Mark Sanchez. Perhaps we should provide some context for that stat before we hold it up as the reason to pay a QB a gazillion dollars.

    2. George,

      You get it; Jack doesn’t. Franchising him next year is not a good option in any way shape or form and the QB number isn’t going down; it’s going up.

      1. So is the cap.

        The QB tag went up only a little over $2 million from 2013 to 2014. If the trend continues the tag for 2015 will be roughly $19 million. Not much more than what Kaepernick is already looking for.

        Plus, if Kaepernick is able to meet their expectations in 2014 they will give him what he wants.

          1. Which means that the cap hit from the tag could most likely be less than what Kaep and his agent will probably be demanding after this season if the team wins the Super Bowl or he takes the next step in development. Have him play out his rookie contract and then tag him if need be.

          2. Mid,

            The cap charge will be more than anything he counts for with a long term deal. That is why teams sign long term deals. Franchise tags cripple you under the cap. Whatever he is asking for next year will be spread over the life of that contract so he won’t have to count 17-18 mill against the cap.

          3. You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know.

            Well if you know all of it, then why are you being so obtuse? You can’t make an argument that franchising him makes more sense than signing him long term. What I’m reading here today is fan fantasy reasoning that doesn’t fit in the NFL business. Wait and see what he does…, if he meets their expectations…, he hasn’t started enough games to get that much…, if he wins the SB…

            Here’s the cold hard truth: Kap is a top ten rated QB, who has won more than 70% of his starts and led his team to a SB and two NFCCG appearances. That resume alone puts him in a higher tax bracket than two thirds of the QB’s in this league. When you add in the fact he’s just entering his prime, is ultra competitive and works his butt off to get better, he’s worth even more.

            If Kap puts up another season like this past one and they don’t win the SB, his price isn’t going down. That is what baffles me about those who think there is something to gain by waiting. There is no benefit to waiting unless they believe he’s not their QB going forward, in which case you don’t sign him at all and see what you can get in a trade.

          4. Jack,

            The whole discussion is based on the better strategy between signing him now, or letting him play it out. Saying they can franchise him means you see that as an option doesn’t it? Your view that they should let him play it out means you find this option more favorable to signing him now does it not?

            Just another example of your habit of making arguments for both sides and not making a clear determination of where you stand on either.

          5. Everyone doesn’t agree with me? That can’t be true :)

            Counting more than this years franchise number in later years isn’t an issue. They can control what he counts for on the cap from year to year with a long term deal. They have zero flexibility with a Franchise tag.

            I’m basing my view of him earning that deal solely on the market Claude. I’d love to be in position to resign him for 12-14 mill, but that isn’t reasonable considering what the market is for QB’s. When guys like Romo, Cutler and Ryan are getting monster deals for accomplishing nothing in the playoffs there is no conceivable way to say Kap deserves less than that, at least in my opinion.

          6. rocket:

            I knew I could get you to respond to that line.

            And I’m not disagreeing with you about the market. It is what it is. What gives me pause is the long term damage that could be done to the team if it signs Kaepernick to a contract with a lot of fully guaranteed money (not just money guaranteed for injury) and he doesn’t get better in the pocket, doesn’t improve his decision-making, and doesn’t otherwise develop as a passer like I think he needs to. In my opinion, the sample size is still too small to serve as the basis for making a huge commitment.

          7. The cap charge will be more than anything he counts for with a long term deal.

            Wanting $18.2 million a year with who knows how much guaranteed money is better?

            Franchise tags cripple you under the cap.

            $18.2 million a year plus potential escalators would do a lot worse.

            Whatever he is asking for next year will be spread over the life of that contract so he won’t have to count 17-18 mill against the cap.

            You can’t say that for sure because each contract is different.

          8. rocket,

            “Saying they can franchise him means you see that as an option doesn’t it?”

            Of course it is an option. I didn’t say that I favored it. I used it to show that they can own his rights for 2015 and 2016 should they choose that route.

            “Your view that they should let him play it out means you find this option more favorable to signing him now does it not?”

            No it doesn’t. It means that I would rather have him count about $1.4 against my 2014 cap and give me greater flexibility to add the necessary pieces to get the team a Super Bowl.

            “Just another example of your habit of making arguments for both sides and not making a clear determination of where you stand on either.”

            If you can’t figure out where I stand on the subject read this:

            http://cover32.com/49ers/2014/03/03/colin-kaepernick-isnt-worth-a-lucrative-contract-extension-at-least-not-yet/

          9. If you are going to make an accusation like that then you better be ready to back it up. I have ignored nothing and posted clear facts and numbers.

            Why? They will just be ignored and have Kaepologies thrown at me in defense. And all you have shown is a developing QB, not one worth $18.2 million a year.

            Point out the half truths you believe I’ve posted and give me the evidence that backs up anything of what you’re saying.

            You’re so entrenched in the belief that Kaep is a top 10 QB that needs to paid as such that anything that evidence I or anybody else produces and/or continues to produces won’t make a bit of difference.

          10. Claude,

            I hear you. I understand the reservations that you and others have but that is an issue with every long term deal that is signed in this league. How many times do you see a player sign a huge deal and then fold up like a cheap suit? Happens often, and the reality is there is a gamble with every player no matter how much you think they are a sure thing.

            I want Kap to improve too. I think he has a lot he needs to work on and have never said anything different. My point has always been that this team has come within 5 yards of winning a SB with him playing the way he is right now. He’s proven he can win with where he is at as a QB right now. The possible improvements to his game are gravy. If he improves as a pocket passer then he becomes elite and worth more than the 18 mill he’s asking right now.

            So if they wait and let him play it out and he puts up similar numbers to this year, they win 10-11 games and go out in the second round, do you think that diminishes his value on the open market? I don’t, and the reason is other teams will line up for him because he is a top 5 talent who wins games, then goes to the playoffs and wins there too, which 20+ other teams in this league would kill for.

            There is nothing to be gained by waiting unless you truly believe (meaning the Niners) that he will regress and is not your QB going forward. He has shown enough to tell the team they can win a lot of games with him. There is no reason to believe he won’t continue to improve and get even better, but even if he doesn’t you have a QB who played well enough to get you deep into the playoffs and a SB. He’s earned the deal already. It only goes up from here if you wait.

          11. Why? They will just be ignored and have Kaepologies thrown at me in defense. And all you have shown is a developing QB, not one worth $18.2 million a year.

            You’re so entrenched in the belief that Kaep is a top 10 QB that needs to paid as such that anything that evidence I or anybody else produces and/or continues to produces won’t make a bit of difference.

            Just as I figured. Nothing.

          12. No it doesn’t. It means that I would rather have him count about $1.4 against my 2014 cap and give me greater flexibility to add the necessary pieces to get the team a Super Bowl.

            They have the money to add pieces if they sign him Jack. Not as much as if they make him play it out, but they have the money and have the means to get more if they need it. I’d rather have my QB signed long term knowing I can resign who I need and having a wealth of draft picks, than getting to the end of next season and knowing I either have to pay the same QB 20+mill or franchise him, and have to release some of those same players.

          13. rocket,

            Feel free to go to the bottom of the page and show who you would like to cut to make room for signings.

          14. Just as I figured. Nothing.

            Which has been the equivalent of your argument. You have yet to prove that Kaep is worth $18.2 million and obviously can’t.

          15. Mid,

            I’ve proved it to anyone who is objective and understands how the league works. Sorry if you don’t fit that definition.

          16. You’ve proven that the WRs make him better and not vise versa. You have also put numbers and stats that equate to an average QB and not a top 10 QB. Add that to what I have seen and it equals letting him play out his rookie contract and then paying him if he takes the next step.

        1. Jack,

          The Franchise tag counts toward the cap. The entire amount. If they sign him long term now, he will never have to count that much against the cap unless they want him to in a certain year. You have zero flexibility when you franchise a player. Even with the cap going up next year, a 17 or 18 mill cap charge seriously restricts what you can do with other players. Contrast that with what you saw the Ravens do. Flacco got a huge deal but with reasonable cap hits for at least the first 3 years.

          That is why teams sign players long term. Nobody wants to get to a Franchise tag on either side. It’s restrictive for the team and a gamble for the player.

          They have room now to make Kaps cap charge at least 6-8 mill as opposed to the 1 mill he’s scheduled to make without a long term deal. That means you can spread out the money even more the next 5 years or however long he signs for. If he signs long term this season, he would not count anywhere near the 17-18 mill he would if he’s franchised next season. That is why you sign him now.

          1. rocket:

            The Franchise tag counts toward the cap. The entire amount. If they sign him long term now, he will never have to count that much against the cap unless they want him to in a certain year.

            Actually, he would count more than the franchise amount against the cap in later years of the contract. Whatever cap savings team would realize in the early years of a contract would be paid back in the later years of the contract.

            Also, the lack of flexibility that results from franchise payments is countered by the absence of dead money later on.

            The problem with repeatedly franchising the same player is the % increase that is added every year. It gets far too expensive to do it more than twice.

          2. Actually, he would count more than the franchise amount against the cap in later years of the contract. Whatever cap savings team would realize in the early years of a contract would be paid back in the later years of the contract.

            Not so Claude. The franchise amount increases every year so he will most likely always be under it, and if they hit a point where he counts for more and the number is too large, they renegotiate. You sign the long term deal knowing the cap will increase, that is why you make the salary higher in the later years of the deal knowing you have more room and that you can always do a new deal if needed.

            ,I>Also, the lack of flexibility that results from franchise payments is countered by the absence of dead money later on.

            Dead money is only an issue if a player doesn’t play out the contract. At 26 years old, Kap is going to play out the contract unless he suffers a career threatening injury.

            The problem with repeatedly franchising the same player is the % increase that is added every year. It gets far too expensive to do it more than twice.

            Absolutely, which is why I don’t see franchising him at all as a good alternative.

          3. rocket:

            Sorry, I should have been clearer. When I wrote “he would count more than the franchise amount against the cap in later years of the contract,” I was referring specifically to the 2015 franchise amount.

            Dead money is only an issue if a player doesn’t play out the contract.

            Or if he doesn’t play up to the salary he is earning and/or guaranteed money he has received. I know that you think Kaep already has proved worthy of $18 million+/year with a huge amount of guaranteed money. Not everyone agrees with you. If the 49ers are among those who don’t agree with you, then they shouldn’t and won’t sign him to the kind of contract that is being discussed.

        2. Jack,

          Plus, if Kaepernick is able to meet their expectations in 2014 they will give him what he wants.

          How do you know he hasn’t already met their expectations? I suppose winning the SB would be leaving no doubt, but he’s done everything but in a year and half as the starter. The team isn’t basing his future on whether he wins the SB next year. Teams aren’t that short sighted and unreasonable. They want a QB who wins games, is a good leader and gives them a shot to win a Championship. Kap checks all the boxes in that regard.

          1. How do you know he hasn’t already met their expectations?

            Those are some mighty pitiful expectations then.

            The team isn’t basing his future on whether he wins the SB next year. Teams aren’t that short sighted and unreasonable. They want a QB who wins games, is a good leader and gives them a shot to win a Championship

            As Jack said, the Jets thought that once too.

            Kap checks all the boxes in that regard.

            He has also checked off the following boxes:
            -not able to get past his first read
            -inconsistent at sensing oncoming pressure in and out of the pocket
            -being a poor game manager
            -not throwing to wide open options (and the opposing secondary doesn’t count)
            -reading what the defense gives him
            -blaming the Super Bowl loss on Harbaugh calling a timeout in order to avoid a delay of game penalty on the final drive
            -proclaiming that he would make the same throw in the same situation that cost the team first the Super Bowl and then a trip back to it the following season

          2. Those are some mighty pitiful expectations then

            Reaching the SB in his first season as a starter is pitiful? You’re expectations are the problem Mid.

            As Jack said, the Jets thought that once too.

            And as I pointed out above, Sanchez didn’t rate higher than the bottom 3rd in any categories, nor did he win a lot of games in the regular season. They paid him based on potential that they hadn’t seen on the field yet. That is not the case here.

            He has also checked off the following boxes:
            -not able to get past his first read
            -inconsistent at sensing oncoming pressure in and out of the pocket
            -being a poor game manager
            -not throwing to wide open options (and the opposing secondary doesn’t count)
            -reading what the defense gives him
            -blaming the Super Bowl loss on Harbaugh calling a timeout in order to avoid a delay of game penalty on the final drive
            -proclaiming that he would make the same throw in the same situation that cost the team first the Super Bowl and then a trip back to it the following season

            All of this is your personal opinion Mid. Not getting past his first read has already been questioned by Dilfer who believes the system is why he doesn’t often look past one read. The fact Smith rarely did as well lends credence to that belief. He’s also done quite well as a game manager considering he doesn’t turn the ball over very often and wins most of the time. Your comments about his maturity are off base and I’ve responded to that before.

          3. Reaching the SB in his first season as a starter is pitiful? You’re expectations are the problem Mid.

            He did that on half of a season during which teams didn’t know what he was capable of doing.

            And as I pointed out above, Sanchez didn’t rate higher than the bottom 3rd in any categories, nor did he win a lot of games in the regular season. They paid him based on potential that they hadn’t seen on the field yet. That is not the case here.

            Kaep is an electrifying runner but a very limited true QB. That is his current potential and it’s up to him to prove otherwise.

            All of this is your personal opinion Mid.

            It’s not an opinion when there is evidence of it each time he plays. The NFC Championship game against the Seahawks is just a small sample of the evidence to support the facts.

            He’s also done quite well as a game manager considering he doesn’t turn the ball over very often and wins most of the time.

            That isn’t even close to what being a game manager entails. It’s just a fraction that was evident against weaker defenses.

            Your comments about his maturity are off base and I’ve responded to that before.

            And you were dead wrong then and now.

          4. No point in continuing Mid. I’m putting up facts and numbers and you are arguing your opinion. Nothing more to say as your mind is made up and obviously will not change no matter what is put in front of you.

          5. You put up camouflaged stats and facts that are only half-truths Rocket. There is plenty of evidence that supports what I have said, yet you chosen to ignore it and proclaim a currently limited QB as the answer to what ails this team.

            Nothing more to say as your mind is made up and obviously will not change no matter what is put in front of you.

            Not when it comes to glossed over half-truths.

          6. Mid,

            If you are going to make an accusation like that then you better be ready to back it up. I have ignored nothing and posted clear facts and numbers.

            Point out the half truths you believe I’ve posted and give me the evidence that backs up anything of what you’re saying.

  17. I agree with you about the # of starts issues. But I’m sure his agent does not. I’m sure his agent is pointing out that the Top 5 highest paid quarterbacks without a Super Bowl ring make from $16 to $21 per year and have a COMBINED playoff record of 4 wins and 10 losses with ZERO road playoff victories.

    Is it really that big of a surprise that his agent is starting negotiations at $18/yr?
    In 1.5 seasons his client has as many postseason victories as the top 5 highest paid quarterbacks without a Super Bowl ring.

  18. On their way to the SB, Harbaugh changed QBs saying that the old QB wins games but Kaepernick wins SBs. Well, how has that worked out?
    This is a performance based league and they , Harbough and Kaepernick have Not won anything (the SB) yet. No and no.

      1. There are other great comments that contradict your opinion, Grant. Perhaps giving thanks and props to those would show your objectivity. Journalists are objective, no? Perez Hilton is subjective, yes?

          1. Which word? You think you’re the only guy that works with words professionally?

            I looked up “blogger” in the dictionary and your face appeared. I looked up “sports journalist” and Kawakami’s face appeared.

            Can you explain that?

    1. It’s a performanced-based league? Is that why Romo is getting $20M a year without a playoff win? Is that why former #1 overall picks in the draft made $15M a year without ever playing a single snap in the NFL?

      lol – nice one.

    2. 6 out of the top 10 highest paid quarterbacks DO NOT have a Super Bowl ring.
      It appears you can get paid big bucks in this performance based league without a ring.

        1. Grant, how’s your reading comprehension? I stated a fact, that players get paid all the time based on “potential” not “performance”. Didn’t say that I agreed with it, or wanted to be like anyone, let alone the cowboys. Just stating the obvious, for those that can’t see it.

          1. Agreed. There would not have been the need for the rookie salary cap if this were not the case. Players who hadnt played a down in the league were handicapping thier teams if they did not pan out due to their large salaries based upon potential.
            With that said, I would risk not signing Kap this offseason. He still needs to prove that he can read defenses before we break the bank for him.

        2. No
          The 49ers should do whatever is best for the 49ers.
          And Kaepernick agent is going to do what is best for his client (and himself).

        3. Grant
          If the Niners were more like the Cowboys last year, they would have won the Super Bowl before the season began, yesno?

    3. Hacksaw heres where i disagree with you and i think Grant
      2003 7-9
      2004 2-14
      2005 4-12
      2006 7-9
      2007 5-11
      2008 7-9
      2009 8-8
      2010 6-10
      The difference between myself and you guys is i remember those years. I remember every miserable sunday. The reason i watch NFL football is for approx 20 weeks of entertainment\excitement. Now i want to win another SB title as much as the next guy but thats one sunday, The other 19 weeks of entertainment count just as much. Now Grant i do’nt expect you to agree because you’re not a fan, it does’nt matter to you. You do’nt clebrate wins or hurt after losses its just a job, so if they get rid of Harbaugh or CK and the franchise goes into the toilet you do’nt give a damn in fact it might be a hell of a story, how Jed York ran the team into the tioilet and thats what a writer cares about, the story. Houston i’m surprised in you. Describing the last 3 seasons of excitement, entertainment and joy as not having won anything is surprising. If this organization learned any thing from botching the mariucci situation is you can go from one of the most exciting comebacks in NFL playoff history [the 2002 playoff win vs the NY Giants] to the dreggs of the league with one simple coaching change.

      1. Old Coach,

        Your approach to professional football enjoyment has worked for me since 1946 when the 49ers were mostly local college players. I appreciate every moment of the past three years — wins and losses.

        What amazes me today is how many guys seem to have the time to post full time. I haven’t worked at a day job for twenty years, but this blog makes it hard for me to keep up.

        1. Htwaits you sound alot like my Pops 87 yo and still kicking he was a season ticket holder in 1946 He laughs that i call myself “old” coach on here

    4. When did he say that Hacksaw? I believe I read the quote, but did you actually hear it from Jim Harbaugh? Regardless, he’s gotten more than he could have expected from Kap considering how raw this kid was coming out of College.

      1. rocket:

        This past season, Tony Dungy reported on NBC’s Sunday football broadcast that Harbaugh said words to that effect, but there is no audio or video of Harbaugh saying it, and no one has ever corroborated it.

        1. Claude,

          That’s my point. Nobody has heard Harbaugh say it. We hear an interpretation from a talking head on TV and it becomes gospel. We have people on here ready to open the door for Harbaugh to walk out based on rumors. It’s unbelievable how people can be swayed in their opinion based on so little concrete evidence.

          1. rocket:

            I think for many people, it’s simply accepting something as fact because it supports an opinion you already had.

  19. I doubt this article is right. Think about it. Colin Kaepernick can play for the next two years for 16 million (1 million in ’14, 15 million in ’15 – without any security). Or he can sign a deal for three years for 15 million per year and in those same next two years make twice as much with security of guaranteed money. What’s the difference between Cutler, Romo and Kaep? Kaep still has one year left on his rookie deal, and that’s at a bargain creating leverage for the 49ers that the Bears and Cowboys don’t have. Kaep will sign for something like 16-18 million for four or five years, and he’d be worth it regardless of Grant’s evaluation. Hell, Grant wanted us to draft Toby Fleener in the first round a while ago. This article isn’t correct. Unfortunately for 49er fans, Jed York has left himself wide open to sportswriters all over America taking shots at his team and creating drama because Jed can’t handle issues with his team outside the lines. Jed and his Niners are fair game. So if a sportswriter wants to create a bs story for hits on a blog or to attract more readers, go after the Niners because Jed can’t defend himself. Isn’t that’s what’s been happening with the Browns’ story?

  20. From Maiocco:

    “Cutler turns 31 in April. He has started just two postseason games in his career. He is coming off a career-best 89.2 passer rating with 19 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in 11 games.

    Romo posted far better numbers than Kaepernick. He threw 31 touchdowns with 10 interceptions for a passer rating of 96.7. But he turns 34 in April, and his teams are 1-3 in the playoffs with the last postseason appearance coming in 2009.

    Kaepernick is 26 years old. He accumulated a passer rating of 91.6 with 21 touchdowns and eight interceptions in his first full season as a starter. His career postseason record is 4-2, including a 3-1 mark in playoff road games.”

  21. Interesting debate. I think too many put too much emphasis on winning the Superbowl as the litmus test for paying anyone. I could not disagree more. I don’t want us to turn into the Ravens. They over paid Flacco for winning the Superbowl and now they don’t have money for the rest of the team. I think being a consistent winner is more important. Pay him now and then you won’t have to pay him when he wins the Superbowl.

      1. Mid,

        Wrong again Mid. They have cap room to keep everybody they want and sign their picks. Next year is when the trouble starts if they have to franchise him and take a huge hit to the cap.

        1. Wrong Rocket. If Kaep signs for $18.2 million a year, that will instantly eat up the $15 million in cap space that we currently have. The cap will be going up higher next year and we will have some players coming off the books at the same time.

          1. Mid,

            He won’t go on the books for 18 mill this year with a new deal. That is the flexibility you get by signing him long term with a year left on his contract. They can make him count for whatever they want this year and leave themselves room to sign the players they want and their draft picks.

          2. He won’t go on the books for 18 mill this year with a new deal.

            He shouldn’t go in the books for top 10 pay unless he is a top 10 QB.

          3. According to the stats that measure QB’s, he is a top ten QB mid. He’s also ranked top ten – and ahead of Mr. Wilson in fact – by stat oriented sites like PFF and Advanced Stats.

            Your points don’t hold up because you have gotten a lot of the information wrong like this idea he would count 18 mill against the cap this year. Step back and think it through from the perspective of what the market rate is, and what the team has accomplished with Kap at the wheel instead of just focusing on the team not having as much money to spend if they give him a new deal.

          4. Step back and think it through from the perspective of what the market rate is, and what the team has accomplished with Kap at the wheel instead of just focusing on the team not having as much money to spend if they give him a new deal.

            I could care less. I want him to see him take the next step in his development and only then will I go the chorus of ‘Pay the man what he wants.’

          5. Completion percentage is one stat amongst many Jack. Ratings are formed from all of the stats together. I know you know this but are unable to admit your position is weak. Just keep on throwing out one stat that supports you, avoid a post here, another point there. I understand how you operate now.

            Mid,

            Total passing yards are based on attempts and completions. If you are throwing the fewest amount of passes, then it stands to reason you won’t be at the top of the list in passing yards. In other words: no it isn’t a good measurement of a QB’s effectiveness, and you seemed to feel the same way when a lot of us were saying that in defense of Alex Smith’s passing yards being so low.

          6. I did Rocket, but I at least saw Smith willing to check down if his first read wasn’t open. Kaep stares down his read and commits to it even if there is a better option.

          1. You think Gore is the core? Even after the second half of the season? Dude cost us at least one game with a costly last minute drop.

    1. I agree with you from the business perspective. Having a consistent product is going to produce more revenue.

  22. What did Paraage just recently say? “If you have an elite quarterback, you never go 3-13.” That’s because the great ones can take over games and beat average opponents on their own. Kind of reminds me of Kaep verse the Packers. He owns their average defense, and he’s pretty much beat them three times on his own.

    And to the blogger who said, “Kaep was chosen over Smith to win Super Bowls… how’s that working out?” I’d say great considering last year Baalke and Paraage decided to strip the offense of talent letting Moss, Walker and Ginn go and asking Harbaugh and Kaep to win with rookies in Patton and McDonald, and an ancient Frank Gore.

    What about the Super Bowl and Seattle game? Roman needs to learn to call something else besides a fade. That’s not Kaep’s fault, although Kaep does need to learn to go through his reads better and be more open minded. He’s still head and shoulders above Romo and Cutler, though.

    Winning Super Bowls is a process. You don’t win them right off. Pete Carroll was with the 49ers, Jets and Patriots before he won in Seattle. Tom Coughlin was a lot like Harbaugh in Jacksonville. Some want Kaep and Harbaugh to win yesterday. I say they’ll win multiple Super Bowls but the idiots who follow the team need to learn patience.

    And someone please tell me how in the world Alex Smith would have beaten the Falcons last year on the road, or the Packers either year….. or Carolina. Against the Giants Smith had 12 yards passing to his receivers in five quarters of football, and still almost lost to the Saints at home after the Saints turned the football over 5 times. How many playoff games has Smith won? Exactly 1. How many has Kaep won? 4. That’s a statement right there. And Smith, in a much weaker conference, went home week one while Kaep in much more difficult conference went to the NFC Championship. And don’t give this BS about Kaep’s defense. The Chiefs D was awesome last year. Harbaugh made the right move to dump Smith. Kaep gives ‘em a chance. Alex Smith gives ‘em heartburn.

    Now the question is can Jed keep the media from running unchecked through his team, and will 49er fans realize it’s a process with Kaep and Harbaugh and give them the necessary time to win Super Bowls?

    1. What did Paraage just recently say? “If you have an elite quarterback, you never go 3-13.” That’s because the great ones can take over games and beat average opponents on their own.

      They can also beat the top defenses, which Kaep has yet to do on a consistent basis.

      And to the blogger who said, “Kaep was chosen over Smith to win Super Bowls… how’s that working out?” I’d say great considering last year Baalke and Paraage decided to strip the offense of talent letting Moss, Walker and Ginn go and asking Harbaugh and Kaep to win with rookies in Patton and McDonald, and an ancient Frank Gore.

      Yep. Boldin and Davis are just talentless hacks.

      Some want Kaep and Harbaugh to win yesterday. I say they’ll win multiple Super Bowls but the idiots who follow the team need to learn patience.

      Not if both are demanding to be paid like Super Bowl winners.

      Against the Giants Smith had 12 yards passing to his receivers in five quarters of football, and still almost lost to the Saints at home after the Saints turned the football over 5 times.

      Compare what Smith had around him to what Kaep currently has around him and you shall see how ignorant that comment is.

      How many has Kaep won? 4. That’s a statement right there.

      How many has Kaep won against Seattle IN SEATTLE? That is a statement in itself.

      And Smith, in a much weaker conference, went home week one while Kaep in much more difficult conference went to the NFC Championship.

      Kansas City had several key injuries during that game and Smith still performed lights out.

      Kaep gives ‘em a chance. Alex Smith gives ‘em heartburn.

      So far Kaep has given us two choke jobs on the crucial stage and refuses to admit that he should have went with another option.

      Now the question is can Jed keep the media from running unchecked through his team, and will 49er fans realize it’s a process with Kaep and Harbaugh and give them the necessary time to win Super Bowls?

      A new Kaepology.

    2. Media is just a business trying to cash in. Jed must get his guys together and work out whatever issue they are having internally.

      1. Correct. Jed doesn’t have to impose any rules, he should just put it back on those two: Grow up. Work it out between yourselves. Nobody wants to hear it. Earning your $ involves cooperation. Make it work.

  23. What if Harbaugh leaves the 49ers in the next 12 months? Giving Kaepernick that kind of contract pretty much guarantees that the search for Harbaugh’s replacement will be limited to coaches who value Kaepernick the way Harbaugh does. How many quality coaches would be removed from consideration in that scenario?

    I think the 49ers need to figure out what they are going to do with Harbaugh before they sign Kaepernick to a long term extension with lots of guaranteed money.

      1. Shaw had Luck at quarterback and a forth and short at the end of a in a BCS bowl game and he brought in an unstable freshman kicker to try a long field goal. He missed. There was time to pass for a first down and at least get closer. Then this year in the Rose Bowl he ran four times to end the game.

        I love having Shaw at Stanford, but he may have learned too much from Harbaugh about how to end big games. He could have put the load on his star quarterback in the first case, and he could have gone against his own trends in the last case.

    1. That is a good point Claude, but that also means you are determining that Kap cannot get any better than he is right now which is a reach. He will get better as a pocket QB the more he plays. I think too many expect him to be great at something he never did until reaching the NFL. You have to give a player time to develop the areas he’s not experienced in. I guarantee you most HC’s in this league would figure out how to use him.

        1. JFC, Jack, why are you and Grant forever going on about Sanchez and the Jets? We’re both of you asleep in your Logic 101 lecture on the logical fallacies of the transitive property?

          1. >>4 road wins in the playoffs baby!

            Which automatically equals Sanchez and Kaepernick? Their future potential. The arc of their careers. In other words, everything. Got it.

          2. Perhaps you’ve missed the comments trumpeting Kaepernick’s road wins as part of why he deserves a new deal…

        2. Mark Sanchez never ranked higher than 23rd in the league in QB rating and that came in an 8-8 season.

          Never ranked higher than 17th in QBR and ranked 27th his second season after which he got his extension.

          Sanchez’s TD to Int ratio was 29 – 33 his first two seasons, and yet the Jets thought it best to give him a contract extension.

          Their record those first two years was 20-12, no division titles.

          So please stop with this comparison. It doesn’t fit. Sanchez was never very good, didn’t deserve a new deal and the numbers backed it up. It was a mistake by a GM that is no longer there, and this is a big reason why.

          1. Two straight conference championship games in his first 2 years in the league, 4 road wins in the playoffs including taking down Brady in Foxboro. Good stuff.

          2. That’s it Jack just overlook the list of reasons why Sanchez is a poor comparison and focus on 4 games. Par for the course.

          3. That’s no different than ignoring that Kaep is currently limited as a passer is wanting to be paid like he is a top 10 passer.

          4. Mid,

            He’s a top ten rated passer. They don’t use rushing numbers to compute QB rating. I didn’t make it up. Those are the facts. His completion percentage will increase significantly once he comes to grips with taking the check downs more often. The guy can throw the ball just fine.

          5. He’s a top ten rated passer.

            Then why wasn’t he named to the Pro Bowl or listed as a guy that was snubbed?

            His completion percentage will increase significantly once he comes to grips with taking the check downs more often.

            So you’re actually admitting that?

            The guy can throw the ball just fine.

            The deep ball yes. The passes requiring touch, not so much.

          6. For those that want to dismiss the similarities between Sanchez and Kaepernick:

            Jets Defensive points per game ranking:

            2009 1st (Championship Game)
            2010 6th (Championship Game)
            2011 20th (Missed playoffs)

            49ers Defensive points per game ranking:

            2012 2nd (Super Bowl)
            2013 3rd (Championship Game)
            2014 ???

          7. Jack,

            For those that want to dismiss the similarities between Sanchez and Kaepernick:

            Jets Defensive points per game ranking:

            2009 1st (Championship Game)
            2010 6th (Championship Game)
            2011 20th (Missed playoffs)

            49ers Defensive points per game ranking:

            2012 2nd (Super Bowl)
            2013 3rd (Championship Game)
            2014 ???

            So they both had good defenses behind them. Doesn’t change the fact Sanchez was nowhere near as good as Kap is right now. Sanchez was a bottom 3rd of the league QB when he got the new deal. That was the Jets being idiots and ignoring the facts. Their GM got fired in part due to that deal. The Kap situation is very different in that he’s played much better than Sanchez and has actually earned a new deal.

      1. rocket:

        If my message implied that I have concluded Kaepernick can’t get any better, then it was poorly written. Although I am troubled by what I perceive as a lack of progress in his development as a pocket passer (or too little progress), I don’t believe that the door is already closed.

        The point I was trying to make was that Kaepernick may not be every coach’s ideal QB. Moreover, coaches, particularly offensive minded ones, like to select their QBs for themselves. Locking Kaepernick into a long term contract with a huge guarantee may not be a good idea if there is any real chance that Harbaugh isn’t going to be coaching beyond 2014.

        That said, I’m not convinced that the recent Harbaugh-may-leave-the-49ers discussion is based upon anything other than mere speculation.

        1. Claude,

          No it was I who worded my response poorly. I didn’t mean “you” personally. I meant the hypothetical you as in all of us looking at it.

          I don’t think Kap is limited to a certain type of offense. I think he plays in an offense that his HC believes in, but could certainly adapt to another if needed.

          As I said above, I guarantee most of the Coaches in this league would figure out how to use him effectively.

  24. sign the qb who lost you the Super Bowl? no no

    What if he signs the contract extension and have a bad 2014 seaason?

    Now the franchise is stuck with this loser for three years.

    Let him walk their are better qb then this loser.

      1. I agree! Wait and keep the team together one more year for another shot at the super bowl. We can make the tough personnel decisions after we win it.

    1. I agree

      But I was a little disappointed with the Headline using the word “wants more money”.

      I was expecting you would use DEMANDS more money!.

  25. What would Kaepernicks agent have started out at if the team had won the Super Bowl?

    $20-$22?

    It appears negotiations started around $18/year.
    Will he get paid Over/Under $15/year.

      1. Yeah Boldin just tweeted he’s coming back according to ESPN. Should we ask ourselves about whether or not he’d want to re-sign with a team whose HC was “losing the locker room?” The man has been around, he can smell trouble if it’s there. I think this signing speaks volumes.

          1. 9 million guaranteed for the two years. Meaning if they cut him before the end of the deal, he will make 9 mill.

          2. MidWest,

            Boldin will get his $9 million regardless.

            With the way that it is set up Boldin will count $3,727,500 against the cap this year with $9 million in dead money. Next year his cap number will go up to $8,272,500 with $2,727,500 in dead money.

  26. No way Kap is worth 18 mil a yr. He started 1and 1/2 seaons and choked in the 2 biggest games he played. Until he learns to read defenses and stop being a 1 read qb he don’t desrve that kind of money.

  27. Okay so he wants more money! Let him win for it! Let’s face it, he’s getting $18mil anyways, the top salary is set by Aaron Rodgers (and right now Kaep does not deserve Rodger’s type of pay). But it’s only $4mil more dollars. If he doesn’t produce on the field then we get him at the bottom of his market value (+ incentives); if he does produce (in particular, win a super bowl) then the 49ers know what they have to pay him.

    I don’t believe Kaep has all of the leverage right now. As exciting as he is to watch, he is still underachieving, or has hit a ceiling (depending on your perspective). He has to prove his worth like Russell Wilson just did. Kaep can go somewhere else after next year and get tons of money but it will it won’t be with a winning franchise, or a as talented a team. If he goes anywhere else, his weaknesses will be exposed and his value will drop dramatically (bad career move). If wan’t to get paid, he has to produce the numbers and win the big one. So for that matter, the 49ers FO is actually in the driver’s seat, and the odds are that regardless of the outcome we come out on top (i.e. Kaep produces & we win #6, or Kaep doesn’t produce and we don’t over pay).

  28. Jed York has the cart before the horse. You sign Harbaugh first, then work on the Kaep deal. Signing Harbaugh first does two things: Quiets the crowd, getting the organization back to work, and it also helps with player negotiations.

    Kaep’s Agent: Kaep doesn’t want to play for Jim Tomsula, and because there’s a real possibility being reported in the media that Kaep will someday have to play for Tomsula, we’ve upped our price.
    Paraage: uhhhhh, Jed? That can’t be. Let me get Jed on the phone.
    Kaep’s Agent: The conversations with the Browns indicates neither side is happy and his players are saying Harbaugh’s act has worn thin.
    Paraage: Jed ?
    Kaep’s Agent: We’d prefer to take 15 over the next two years ( 1 million in 14, 14 million with the franchise tag in 15), then walk in 16 and play somewhere else, competing for Super Bowls.
    Paraage: Jed’s on the beach with his kids. He’s not answering his cell phone. Let me put you through to Eddie D.
    Eddie D: Hello, Kaep’s Agent? Sorry, my nephew is a little green still. He should be there handling all of this. I apologize. Let me assure you Harbaugh will be our long term head coach. We recently went to Vegas and wow, Jim…. he’s a….. Let me cut to the chase. I have some compromising photos. He’s not going anywhere.
    Kaep’s Agent: Can we see them in order to judge if the photos create stability for my client?
    Eddie: I just sent ‘em in a text.
    Kaep’s Agent: Yes, yes you do have compromising photos. Now let’s talk compensation.
    Eddie: 4 years, 55 with a Super Bowl win escalator. Plus Kaep and anyone he knows has access to all my luxury properties all over the world, complete with gaming and call girl service. What? Kaep doesn’t like hookers and gambling? He doesn’t believe in himself enough to sign a deal that pay him big after he proves he can win the big one? Is he a loser?
    Kaep’s Agent: 4 years, 60 with Super Bowl escalators and all your sleazy connections but an out that reads if Harbaugh goes, my client is a free agent.
    Eddie: Done and done. Pleasure doing business…. Oh, Harbaugh ain’t goin’ anywhere unless he wants to pay half of everything to the wife. I own that guy.
    Jed: Uncle Eddie? Man, I have a lot to learn.
    Eddie: You can’t learn balls, kid.

    1. $25 million a year along with escalators?! Even Eddie wouldn’t have made that deal on such a small sample.

        1. I do when I read your posts Spit. That’s enough to do it. And I have no control over what my phone’s auto-correct replaces what I type. Plus my statement stands: Eddie would not make that kind of deal on such a small sample.

          1. Lol…. Your phone’s auto correct? Did auto correct also write, “Even Eddie wouldn’t have made THAT deal.” That’s auto correct, too…. right? Right now I’m laughing in your face.

          2. You obviously don’t understand the point of emphasizing something, so I won’t bother explaining it to you. Not enough crayons.

  29. What worries me the most about our beloved team is for three years we heard harldy anything good or bad, nothing was leaked, no un-named sources , nothing! The whole Loose lips sink ships! Now their is all kinds or rumours, Now the Coach is un-happy with his salary, big debates on who is more important, Is Parag Marathe too big for his britches, Is Jed York’s ego and oppinion of himself inflating? Is Colin going to pop up with a different uniform on? Now this may be alot of “Much ado about nothing”. But it is troubling to hear so much negative crud! Like other posters have pointed out, I do not want to go back to weeks and seasons of misery! I just hope that every one in charge of this awesome franchise will listen and hear the imortal words of “Better check yourself berfore you wreck yourself!”

    1. @Reb
      Amigo, this is ALL over the media, relentless right now, but it’s next-to-nothing. It’s all repeating/rehashing speculation based on unnamed sources. Consider, one Bay Area writer (who is known to have an axe to grind with Harbaugh and the Niners’ PR Department) tosses around unattributed ideas (no quotes). Then Grant and other on-liners repeat/ reTweet it. Then the national sites gobble it up, and without vetting it they blast it around the globe. Six hours after that the dim bulbs at the Bay Area TV Stations sports desks broadcast it like its news 3 days after its been debunked by many on this blog and elsewhere.
      It’s quite irritating but also instructive for us as we consider the reliability of the information we get from mass media about anything, not just sports.

  30. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – the cost to team success of re-signing Kaep to a big $$, long term contract and getting it wrong is a lot higher than waiting another year (or two, including franchise tag) and signing him to a slightly higher contract if he proves he is worthy of it.

    If he is willing to play ball on an incentive laden contract, fine, get it done. Paying him like he’s an established top-line QB now is high risk.

    1. Scooter,

      I understand the risk of signing any player to a long term deal, but teams do it anyway.

      We’ve seen about 2 seasons worth of starts from Kap including playoffs, and in that time he’s won 70+ % of them and led his team to SB appearance and two NFCCG’s. What exactly are we waiting to see here? How much more does he have to show you to be worthy of a deal that lesser QB’s in the NFL currently have?

      This is the underlying point that I can’t comprehend. The reason for waiting seems to be that some don’t feel he’s earned the deal the league says he’s entitled too, and my question is what else do you expect?

      You can’t put an expectation of SB or bust on the guy. It’s unreasonable to do that, so what is it he needs to do to prove worthy if he’s done everything but win a SB?

      1. Rocket, I simply don’t believe Kaep has proven he is a top line QB yet. I think he has proven he is good in this system. Signing him to a long multi-year deal when Harbaugh’s contract is still up in the air is very high risk. What happens if Harbaugh leaves and they find out Kaep isn’t very good in a system that places more emphasis on reading coverages and making progressions? You end up with a Mark Sanchez situation.

        By the way, my take has nothing to do with whether he’s won the SB or not. It has everything to do with wanting to see him improve his reading of coverages and making progressions. And before you start I know you feel he has made positive steps since his rookie year in this regard. So do I. But just because he is better at it doesn’t mean he is good at it. I believe the ability to read the field and find the open receiver is the most important trait of any QB, and I can’t feel comfortable giving Kaep a long term big $$ deal until I see he is more than capable in this regard.

        1. Scooter,

          The problem with this reasoning is neither you or I know if he can’t do it or not. We don’t know if he’s not reading progressions, or if there or no progressions to read. I have seen him go through progressions at times, so I know he can do it. The question becomes are you reacting to Kap’s limitations or the offensive system that is in place?

          I think it’s probably a combination of the two, but seeing Alex Smith pretty much play the same way in this offense as far as getting the ball out quickly while usually only looking at one receiver before dumping it off, or taking a sack, I tend to think the offense bears a high responsibility for the lack of progressions. Dilfer said the passing offense is very basic and resembles a 1970′s style. Now whether he is right nor not is up to you, but two QB’s have now played relatively the same game, with the exception that the younger guy is a great runner and gets the ball downfield more.

          I also understand wanting to see more before committing, but that isn’t how it works. Teams have a certain amount of time to decide what they want to do going forward and with what Kap has shown in his time so far, he’s done enough to warrant the extension imo.

          1. Rocket, I have seen enough evidence to suggest he is quite comfortable locking onto one receiver. Alex Smith had similar issues throughout his career too – not just when Harbaugh came along. But Alex at least would move off his guy and take another option if the defense warranted it. Good old “Captain Checkdown” didn’t get that name because he locked onto his safety valves. If Kaep shows more willingness to look for and use his checkdown options when his main target is well covered I will see that as evidence he can make progressions.

            Yes they do have a certain amount of time rocket. 4 years (or 5 if you include the franchise tag). Not 3. Signing him now is doing it ahead of when it is needed. Good thing to do when you want to keep your young talent in place, but you usually only do so with players you are convinced are going to be worth it.

          2. Scooter,

            Kap can throw a checkdown. He doesn’t like to, but he can. If I saw that he couldn’t throw accurately to a certain part of the field or routinely couldn’t hit simple throws, then I’d agree with you, but dumping the ball off is a change in mindset with more experience and understanding you don’t have to win the game on every play. He’s 29 starts in. He’ll get it.

            You rarely see players teams want to keep play out their contracts and especially QB’s. Flacco was one example but there are few if any others. You have to commit early or the player has other options. That is the give and take with long term deals before the first deal is over. If they wait until next year, there is no reason for Kap to sign with them unless they are the top offer. If they Franchise him, they blow up their cap and have to let other players go. There is no upside to waiting unless you truly believe he is not your QB going forward, and with the amount of games Kap has won, I have a hard time believing the Niners don’t see him as their guy for the present and future.

          3. Yes, he can, but he doesn’t do it often. He is slow in coming off his main target. I want to see that improve. Not saying I want him to go the other extreme of always checking down, but I want to see faster decisions.

  31. It’s all about the 1st 3 years and Guaranteed Money: Here’s my attempt
    I think it’s manageable:

    5 year Extension to go until 2019. For simplicity sake, let’s forget the $1M he’s owed on his original contract or just add it in to his new one.

    $109.2M Total
    $48M Guaranteed (Signing Bonus + Roster Bonus + Workout Bonus)
    Signing Bonus = $28M
    Roster Bonus = $14M
    Work Out Bonus = $6M

    2014
    Signing Bonus = $5M
    Roster Bonus = $0
    Work Out Bonus = $0
    Salary = $0
    Money to Kaep = $28M
    Cap Hit = $5M

    2015
    Signing Bonus = $13M
    Roster Bonus = $1M
    Work Out Bonus = $500K
    Salary = $0
    Money to Kaep = $14.5M
    Cap Hit = $14.5M

    2016
    Signing Bonus = $7M
    Roster Bonus = $2M
    Work Out Bonus = $2M
    Salary = $8M
    Money to Kaep = $12.5$M
    Cap Hit = $19.5M

    Total 3 Year Money = $55M
    Average Annual Over in 3 Years = $18.3M

    2017
    Signing Bonus = $1M
    Roster Bonus = $3M
    Work Out Bonus = $500K
    Salary = $16M
    Money to Kaep = $20.5M
    Cap Hit = $21.5M

    2018
    Signing Bonus = $1M
    Roster Bonus = $3M
    Work Out Bonus = $1.5M
    Salary = $18M
    Money to Kaep = $22.5M
    Cap Hit = $23.5M

    2019
    Signing Bonus = $1M
    Roster Bonus = $4.5M
    Work Out Bonus = $1M
    Salary = $19.2M
    Money to Kaep = $24.7M
    Cap Hit = $25.7M

    1. I don’t understand what you are doing with the signing bonus. Is he signing a new deal each year? Why would he do that? If not, then it is pro-rated across the contract (i.e., is counted as an equal amount each year.

      As such, a $28 million signing bonus over 6 years will be just short of $5 million a year in signing bonus against the cap. If it turns out he doesn’t get any better after 3 years of guaranteed money, to cut him they’d be charged 3x $5 million against the cap.

      1. i don’t think you have to pro rate the signing bonus, you can distribute the cap hit however you want….I think. if not, just move the signing bonus money over to GUARANTEED Salary and then structure how you see fit.

          1. I don’t like that much signing bonus at the end of the deal. $5.6 per year near the end makes it difficult to renegotiate or cut bait after year 3 of the deal.

        1. No, you don’t get to pick and choose which years the signing bonus counts against.

          As to the solution of converting signing bonus to salary in later years, why on earth would Kaep want to accept less in a signing bonus (guaranteed money in hand today) for potential money at some point in the future?

          1. Guarantee a portion of the salary. convert the part of the signing bonus in the 1st 3 years to guaranteed salary.

          2. scooter, look at how all the other contracts are structured. all that really matters is the first 3 years.

            so gurantee the the first $28M however you want; bonus, guranteed salary…whatever and stuff much of it in the first three years.

          3. Affp, the big $$ contracts for QBs have around $25 – $30 million in signing bonus. Its where the market is at. Also lots of guaranteed money. It means there will be big cap hits if they cut ties with the QB early.

          4. scooter: Rogers got a $35M signing bonus. Flacco got a $29M signing bonus. I proposed a $28M signing bonus.

            You’re looking at “Guaranteed Money” which is in the $50M+ range. I have Kaep’s guaranteed money at $48M. So it might be a little low. But not by a lot.

          5. Affp, where did I say your original signing bonus and guaranteed $$ amounts were off? I queried the pro-rating of the signing bonus and when you said you could swap signing bonus for salary I said that was unlikely.

            My whole point is that these deals mean you are committed to these players long term. So you had best be sure they are worth it.

            Now if I wanted to knit pick I would say another issue is the guaranteed workout bonus and roster bonus. Those things can’t be guaranteed – they are incentives. You lose the whole point of the incentive if it is guaranteed. You guarantee salary.

          6. Scooter, if you look at the structure of the contract (and if you convert the initial singing bonus money over to Guaranteed Salary), your only major commitment is for 3 years. The last 2-3 years of the contract are not difficult to get out from under. And it’s not that outrageous of a back end either. It’s about what an above average QB will be making in 3 years. But the back end can be renegotiated so that salary is reduced and more money is guaranteed to make future cap room.

          7. Why are you converting signing bonus to guaranteed salary in the first 2-3 years? The whole point of the signing bonus is to give the player money upfront while reducing the cap burden in early years, and shift it to when the salary cap is higher. Your scenario would cripple the 49ers salary cap the next 2-3 years.

            If they don’t want to commit for more than 2-3 years, and are happy to have him take up $18-$20 against the cap each of the next 2-3 years, why not wait to re-sign him?

          8. scooter,

            why not wait to sign him if he’s going to cost $18 – $20M. Because he’ll presumably cost significantly more by then…just the cost of QBs will go up by then.

            You’re right, these are essentially 3 year deals. Moving the guaranteed money in the first few years allows for flexibility after year 3. It’s not as if Kaep’s not going to be the starter for the next 2-3 years so you might as well pay the guaranteed money up front. After 3 years, you don’t know how it’s going to pan out so by then the contract has a much reduced commitment and can be easily renegotiated if desired. This year’s Cap hit isn’t that huge and the 2nd year is okay. The third year is tough but it’s the going rate for an above average QB + the money you’ve delayed from years 1 and 2. Years 4, 5 and 6 are manageable.

    2. let’s try this again.

      2014
      Guaranteed Salary = $8M

      2015
      Guaranteed Salary = $17M
      Roster Bonus = $1M
      Work Out Bonus = $500K

      2016
      Guaranteed Salary = $20M
      Roster Bonus = $2M
      Work Out Bonus = $2M

      Total 3 Year Money = $55M
      Average Annual Over in 3 Years = $18M

      the rest works out the same with a $3M signing bonus pro rated over the last 3 years.
      2017
      Signing Bonus = $1M
      Roster Bonus = $3M
      Work Out Bonus = $500K
      Salary = $16M
      Money to Kaep = $20.5M
      Cap Hit = $21.5M

      2018
      Signing Bonus = $1M
      Roster Bonus = $3M
      Work Out Bonus = $1.5M
      Salary = $18M
      Money to Kaep = $22.5M
      Cap Hit = $23.5M

      2019
      Signing Bonus = $1M
      Roster Bonus = $4.5M
      Work Out Bonus = $1M
      Salary = $19.2M
      Money to Kaep = $24.7M
      Cap Hit = $25.7M

      Still a tough pill to swallow.

      1. So it is an initial 3 year deal and he is signing a new contract in the 4th year? You understand a signing bonus is what you get upon signing your deal, and the team can’t then choose when they take the cap hit?

        And why would Kaep accept an initial deal with no signing bonus? Why would he be happy to have $8M in salary the first year when the other top QBs are getting signing bonuses (money in hand straight away) of $25M – $30M?

        I appreciate what you are trying to do affp, but you should look at the deals other QBs have been getting. Kaep would get something structured similarly.

        1. scooter, because he’s only getting about $1M in 2014 under his current contract. He’s getting 8X more and over 3 years he’d get his $18M per year average. The only difference is that he has to wait another 2 years to get his Guaranteed money.

          Look at Culter’s contract.

          As for the remaining $3M signing bonus…fine just get rid of it and convert it to Roster Bonus money.

          1. Cutler gets $22.5M in the first year. They basically converted signing bonus to salary in the first year to avoid cap complications later. The key though is he still gets that money in year 1.

            I take your point about Kaep maybe being willing to take less his first year as it is better than the $1M he gets otherwise. But from a 49ers perspective why give him a contract that pays results in cap hits of $8M, $18.5M then $24M in the first 3 years, when they can wait and see if he is worth it while taking cap hits of around $1M this year, and maybe around $17M – $20M for the franchise tag next year?

  32. Grant, You are possibly the greatest troll on the internet. and i sincerely mean that as a compliment.

    Every single arguement stated here can be judged correct or erroneous depending on an individuals subjective opinion, yet almost all are presented as black or white, their truths depending on a series of unanswerable conundrums.

    Has Kaep reached his ceiling?
    Will Harbaugh stick around? etc, etc.

    I think the only thing that irks me is the suggestion that he doesn’t deserve $18 p/y purely based on the fact that he hasn’t won the Super Bowl, and it’s not even whether that it is right or wrong to judge it that way that annoys me.

    Maybe I follow the 49ers in an odd way, maybe I’m a freak, but to me the regular season is as important and enjoyable as the playoffs, each team can only play a maximum of 19 times a year, not like the other major leagues in the U.S, where between 82 in the NBA, and what seems like 35’000 games in an MLB season take place for example. I treasure each and every game the niners play.

    I’ve read through all the comments, and on this thread at least, it seems that some folks (Midwest particularly) shouldn’t even bother watching the NFL until Wild Card weekend as they are utterly disregarding 75% of the NFL season. Serenely ignoring the fact that if Kaepernick wasn’t doing his job at a high level he would never have been in a position to single handedly blow the games against Baltimore and Seattle. (I’ll never forget seeing him whiff on that tackle when Jones took the kickoff to the house to start the second half in the Super Bowl)

    From a salary cap perspective, it doesn’t seem to make a difference whether we get him now or in a year, or maybe two, so really it boils down to one thing, one question.

    Should Colin Kaepernick be the 49ers QB for the next five to ten years?

    If the answer is yes, then pay the man what he want’s, yes he is asking a lot, but it see,s like he is consious of the fact that his contract can kill the teams ability to keep hold of other key players.

    If the answer is no, let him try and prove you wrong for the next year and then dump him when he inevitably blows the NFC championship game at Levi Stadium by missing a 52 yard field goal as time expires.

    The fence sitters, take the risk, let him play out this next year, if he blows, no dramas you can let him walk. If he rocks the world, then pay him $23 per year to tie him up, the cap is shooting up so whats the problem!, but what if Colin decides he’s not interested in a team that has shown no faith in him? What if he he tears the league a new one and decides screw you I’m off to Miami, remember that hat, you know, the Dolphins one, It meant more that you knew suckers! I’m outta here losers.

    As you may have guessed I say Pay The Man…..Pay Him Good.

    1. I agree with this guy. $18 million will be cheap compared to what’s going to happen over the next few years. If he does win, and he’s not under contract, it’s only going to inflate that number more. Pay him now.

        1. We can delay signing him but if he’s a successful as he has been, it’s only going to make things worse. Let’s just get it taken care of unless you all think there’s a QB in college right now better than him that can win a SB.

        2. So what MWN, the cap is flying up by all accounts, either way we should be fine. from a cap perspective it matters not whether we tie him up now or in a years time.

  33. I think if people want to blame anyone it should be Drew Brees. When he held out with the Saints he did so because he knew all QB contracts after his would based off of his. IF, Kap is going to be our franchise QB, then pay him something around that $18 million mark. If not, let’s find our new QB now. Everyone complains how bad he is but forget how bad our team was less than 5 yrs ago. We can’t BS around with our head coach and our QB. It seems like we so badly want to go back to the past when we were TERRIBLE

  34. Put it this way. Is Kap better than Cutler? Without a doubt. And using that logic, both Kap and his agent shouldn’t settle for less. Do I think either of them is worth that much? No. But the market has been set.

      1. But we didn’t win the Super Bowl Grant, by your own standards that means we cannot be the most talented team in the NFL

      2. Your wrong there QB’s can hold almost any franchise hostage. Montana could’nt hold the 9ers hostage when Young was around and CK could’nt hold the 9ers hostage if Smith was still around but hes not so let the hostage negotiations begin

  35. When ck can become a threat in the pocket and make defenses respect that, and when he can make more than 1 read, and when he can use his legs to scramble (not run) in the pocket. He’s not worth 18 million a year. Sorry he’s electrifying with his legs, but the arm has to match it. He is NO WHERE near the qb he can be. Our passing game got better with him in, but no where it needs to be. When teams are game
    Planning to
    Take away your strength (running) then your qb needs work. I like the kid, but not 18 million like. Lose MC, lose Aldon Smith, lose Dawson, lose Iupoti…. And they get nowhere. He is not the most important player on the team right now. Sorry….. Say NO to 18 mill.

    1. You sound like Grant now. Take away this and you get that. Needless to say, Kap helped us get to the NFC championship game. That’s farther than the people getting paid $18 million has done.

      1. I have never hyped my team and its players. Instead of throwing insults around (not that calling me Grant is a big one) why don’t you try and debate as to why he deserves that kind of money.
        Debate how he is an excellent pocket qb. A little advice for you. A disagreement doesn’t always have to end up in name calling. Those who come out with names before anything else usually have Zero facts or a solid argument.

      2. KY,

        “That’s farther than the people getting paid $18 million has done.”

        How many of those guys have the defense backing them up that Kaepernick has, or the ball control/balanced attack?

  36. Kap is worth as much as he can get!
    It has nothing to do with performance or throwing a foot higher.
    If I was him, I would try to get as much as possible.
    End of story.

    1. Jack:

      I bet myself a quarter on who the author was before I clicked on the link. Now, I have to get myself to pay. I hope I am not a welcher.

      1. Also, I think you probably owe Hacksaw some sort of acknowledgement for the “How has that worked out for the 49ers?” paragraph.

          1. Jack:

            Stan is a commenter who drifted over to this blog from Lowell Cohn’s blog in 2011-12. He doesn’t post here much any more, but I am pretty sure he still posts over there.

            Anyway, he used to post off the wall comments, and I remember you would sometimes respond over-enthusiastically to them, telling him what a genius he was. Those responses were the only other times I have seen you use exclamation points.

    2. The Author doesn’t give any credible reason for why he doesn’t think the QB should get a new deal.

      First point: 29 starts. That’s pretty much two seasons worth of starts and 3 years in the organization. They have a good idea of what he can do by now.

      Second Point: His completion percentage was 34th. Who cares? You pulled that stat out because it’s one of the few negatives you can find. Meanwhile he is ranked in the top ten by every stat site and QB measurement out there.

      3rd Point: It was rumored that Harbaugh said something that was never collaborated or actually came from Harbaugh, but we’ll include it as a reason for not giving the QB a new deal.

      I might have missed something else, but can’t bring myself to read through it again as it’s full of the same weak sauce all the other posts against resigning Kap do.

      Here’s the facts:

      Top ten rated QB just going into his prime who is 21-8 in 29 starts

      Is 4 – 2 in the playoffs with 3 wins on the road, two NFCCG’s, and a SB appearance

      Market says he’s worth 18+ million a year

      Team does not have another option

      Waiting a year offers no benefit and makes things worse with the cap if they have to Franchise

      I rest my case.

          1. rocket,

            “4 – 2 in the playoffs with 3 wins on the road, two NFCCG’s, and a SB appearance”

            You should stop using wins and losses to promote Kaepernick if you are going to dismiss them for other QB’s with similar postseason success.

          2. The difference is that QB you are trying to compare him to didn’t win as many games overall and did not put up good numbers overall. He also hurt his teams chances with a ton of picks and fumbles. There is no comparison to make here other than both teams had good defenses.

  37. So going based off of the majority people here, we should only pay a QB franchise money when he wins a Super Bowl. Let the QB carousel again. It’ll be like when we drafted and traded for numerous QB’s when Alex smith was the starter. Hopefully Kap proves to be the best out of them bc Alex smith was the best of the worse.

    1. I’ll admit that I haven’t actually tallied the votes, but I don’t think anything close to a majority of commenters have stated that a SB victory is required before paying franchise QB money.

      1. Claude you can tally my vote for those who believe that a some QB’s deserve franchise money even though they have’nt won a SB. Case in point Dan Fouts and Dan Marino.

        1. old coach:

          Fouts and Marino? Are you crazy? They are far too old to be worth the vet’s minimum, let alone franchise QB money. Marino is 52 and Fouts is 62. Neither could make it through one game in one piece.

        1. Clearly stated. But there are those that would argue he doesn’t deserve all the credit for getting us there (backed up by a great defence) but he does deserve all the blame for not winning.

          Aah the life of an NFL qb, must really suck.

          1. No one has to agree with me. I just don’t understand the criteria people are using. The only thing left for Kap to do is win a SB

          2. I just don’t understand the criteria people are using. The only thing left for Kap to do is win a SB

            Multiple commenters have clearly stated the problems they have with Kaepernick as a passer and their opinion that he needs to improve in those skills to warrant franchise QB money. If you read the comments, you’ll see that.

            You also might want to consider the possibility that the 49ers’ success in 2012 and 2013 wasn’t due solely to Kaepernick.

          3. The problem is the commenters focused on his footwork or perceived weakness in reading through progressions in the pocket etc., overlook the fact that he’s won in spite of these issues. Wanting a player to improve in some areas is fine; making that your reason for not wanting him given a market value deal is not. You worry about fundamentals when a QB isn’t playing well and most of all not winning, not when it’s a young QB who has been a starter for a year and half and has led you to a SB and 2 NFCCG’s.

          4. So we don’t sign him because he’s not improving like we want him to. Let’s let him walk because if he doesn’t win a SB, we’ll find more faults. He will get more money and improve elsewhere. Then we can draft another college QB and be in the same position in a few years, minus the deep playoff runs probably.

          5. rocket:

            Wanting a player to improve in some areas is fine; making that your reason for not wanting him given a market value deal is not.

            What about making it your reason for not wanting to commit to him for 6+ years?

            Also, your comment seems to suggest that Kaepernick alone is responsible (or that he is primarily responsible) for the 49ers’ success in 2012 and 2013. If I am reading it correctly, I have to disagree with you on that point as well.

          6. No one player is responsible for any teams successful. Is he a valuable part, YES. Six years, we don’t have to sign him long term. But $18 million is where the market says he’s valued at. I don’t think very many QB’s would have kept us in the game against Seattle. We saw what they did to drew Brees

          7. Claude,

            He’s not the sole reason but definitely played a big part. The underlying point I’m trying to make here is that the guy has played and won. The things we all think he needs to improve on have not kept him from succeeding. I don’t believe you decide not to give a QB a new contract because you think he’s got fundamentals to work on, or improvements to make. Not being a great pocket QB has not stopped him from helping you win 21 of his 29 starts, so why wouldn’t you sign him long term knowing that he can help you win right now and will most likely get even better as time goes on?

  38. I don’t like this new format Grant. It forces you to isolate every post. Is there any way I can go back to the old one?

  39. If you were to put Kaepernick with the Bears, the Packers become easier for the Bears to defeat, something that has been difficult for Cutler. Put him with the Cowboys, and they’ll win the NFC East. I say he is worth it. Not a lot of young guns can accomplish what he has. Who’s to say how much he can do when he gets to be their age, maybe multiple rings. Throwing Completions and Touchdowns alone are not always effective. I give you Exhibit A. Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl. If Peyton Manning has Kaepernick’s legs, the game would be closer. There is a reason why the champion Richard Sherman said the NFC Championship Game was the real Super Bowl. He fears the Kaepernick more than the Manning. What did Earl Thomas call him? Special. The 49ers odds are increased exponentially at winning the Super Bowl with him over any other QB drafted to the team, including David Fales…..

  40. Now that the Boldin deal has gone down the 49ers are sitting $10,361,276 below the cap. Let’s say that Kaepernick gets his $18 million average deal this season, and it mirrors Romo’s deal of 6 years, $108 million, with a signing bonus of $25 million.

    The signing bonus alone for 2014 will count $5 million against the cap, leaving the team with just over $5 million in cap space for free agency and the signing of draft picks. Not enough.

    Where do you want to cut more money?

        1. 435 snaps in 2013 & scheduled to make $3,792,500 in 2014….Williams won the job and he should be ready. Just thought it was too much for what he does.

      1. Yikes, no way. Dorsey was good last year and he’s a relative bargain. I’d be more tempted to give him an extension than cut him or ask him to take a pay cut.

    1. Jack, wouldn’t Niners be in a worse situation if they don’t sign him now and put the franchise tag on him next year? How much of that franchise tag goes against the cap?

      1. ricardo,

        Yes, but they may not have to use the franchise tag. That is only there to ensure the player is kept on their roster.

        1. I hear you Jack, but the only scenario I could see that the Niners will not put the franchise tag on CK next year is if he completely falls apart and the team not even make it to the playoffs. And since Boldin is back and barring any more injuries to our WR core, CK will most likely at least have the same performance like last year. And whether he wins the SB or not next year he will command more money. So, I really think, it’s better to sign him now than later. For how long? I’ll say no more than 5 years. Man, I’m glad I’m not Baalke right now.

          1. ricardo,

            Or Kaepernick goes through another year showing little to no improvement, the team doesn’t advance as far into the playoffs, the market changes a little bit and they can still sign him to a long term deal.

            While likely, it’s not guaranteed that he will be able to command more money in 2015.

          2. fair enough Jack. That’s definitely a scenario that could be very well happened, and I’m sure the Niner FO is putting that into consideration. But if I’m Baalke, I’m wouldn’t count on that especially knowing Boldin will be back and if we get more contribution from Patton, V Mcdonald and maybe even from Lattimore, then chances are we will be in the playoff and possibly win it all even if CK does not improve.

          3. me too Jack :) But that might not be the better business decision… well, I guess we’ll find out soon. If I’m a betting man, I bet the Niners will sign CK into an extension before the start of the season. Hopefully, lower than the 18 mil/yr being reported around.

    2. They will get more cap room from Rogers taking a pay cut or being released. They also can go to Gore and get him to reduce his 6.5 mill cap charge. They can go to Willis, Bowman, Davis, and others to restructure for more space if they need it. This is common practice in the league Jack, and with the cap going up to 150 mill by 2016, there is no issue pushing some money back into later years.

      1. “They will get more cap room from Rogers taking a pay cut or being released.”

        If they cut him who covers the slot?

        “They also can go to Gore and get him to reduce his 6.5 mill cap charge.”

        Baalke has already stated that they will not be touching Gore’s contract.

        “They can go to Willis, Bowman, Davis, and others to restructure for more space if they need it.”

        Very true.

        “This is common practice in the league Jack, and with the cap going up to 150 mill by 2016, there is no issue pushing some money back into later years.”

        Also true, which is why having to give Kaepernick a deal with a couple million more per year next year instead of this year shouldn’t be considered a big deal as I’ve already stated.

        1. The problem with that Jack is he can ask for a lot more than a couple mill over what he’s asking this year knowing he can get it on the open market. Then you are back to the Franchise tag which is not a good option.

          1. The highest paid QB in the league averages $22 million per year. That’s not a whole lot more than Kaepernick is reportedly asking for.

          2. Also, the average cap hit for that contract over the 1st five seasons is $17,750,000.

            There is no need to rush it.

          3. Look at the average for the first 5 years Rocket. That is almost the number that Kaepernick is asking for and the final year or two would likely be redone anyway.

        2. Baalke also didn’t say they wouldn’t touch Gores contract. He said they didn’t have to right now because they enough cap room.

        3. Well said but only one side of a reasonable debate. Kawakami has both sides today with out the back and forth “Is not!”, “Is so!” that has gone on here today.

          Enjoy.

  41. Assuming the reports of the salary cap reaching $132 million this year are accurate and it has a similar percentage increase next year, it would be close to $18.3 million to place a non-exclusive franchise tag on Kaepernick in 2015. A second franchise tag in 2016 would be around $22 million, a 20 percent increase over Kaepernick’s 2015 franchise number.

    The 49ers should feel good offering Kaepernick a front-loaded three year deal between $37.5 million and $40 million (with over $30 million guaranteed) that would expire after the 2016 season.

    Instead of playing for a little more than $1 million this year and going year-to-year with the franchise tag for two years, Kaepernick could consider taking a slightly less obscene amount on the overall compensation. The discount would be for getting a much more favorable payment schedule than with franchise tags.

    Front loading the contract would give the 49ers better cap management because Kaepernick’s 2015 and 2016 cap numbers could be a lot less than the franchise tags depending how the deal got structured. Kaepernick would also be in a position to reap the benefits of any changes to the quarterback salary landscape because of new contracts by Robert Griffin III, Andrew Luck, Newton or Russell Wilson by signing a bridge deal.

    1. Who did you copy and past this from Razor? It’s a little outdated now that the salary cap number has been set for a a few days.

  42. From a ProFootballTalk article
    With new team president Paraag Marathe, an analytics aficionado, recently explaining at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference that advanced statistics “absolutely play a big role” in contract negotiations, the sample size is still too small to pay Kaepernick at or near the top of the market.

    “Both sides in a contract negotiation, both sides are using analytics and data to help support — it’s confirmation bias to the max, everybody’s trying to find evidence that supports whatever theory or contract demand they want to make,” Marathe said, via Mike Rodak of ESPN.com. “They can cut it and slice it in a lot of ways that help you.”

    Two stats can slice apart the legend of Colin Kaepernick. As explained in the latest edition of ESPN The Magazine, Kaepernick had a league-worst 54.6 completion percentage while under pressure. He also was sacked 20.2 percent of the time when facing pressure, the fourth highest average among all NFL starters.

  43. My buddy and i were debating this and how Kap is better than Romo. Then he asked me this
    How would the cowboys do if Kap swapped with Romo? How would Kaps numbers look with 30th ranked defense? Would he have the same playoff record?
    And also switching our Kap for Romo, can any QB take us to the SB?
    Just curious on ur thoughts

  44. I haven’t read all of the posted comments, so If I repeat someones elses comment, my apologies to you…..$18M / year wouldn’t be a problem if Kaepernick played like some of the upper eschelon QB’s in the NFL, but he doesn’t….at least not yet. I don’t believe the 49er’s should pay CK for his potential, because he may never live up to the potential. He needs to be paid for what he’s done, just like every other QB in the NFL….$6-8M / year loaded with incentives to bring his $$ up is more in line, rather than $18M per year….after the last three seasons, if the 49ers are going to dole out $18M, they ought to spread it around to the defensive unit, they’ve done more for the success of the 9ers than CK….let him play out his rookie contract if that’s where he wants to go, cause nobody else in the NFL is gonna shell out $18M a year for him, he’s not worht that kind of cash yet…..maybe the group on the other side of the bay would pay it, only becasue they don’t make sound personnel decisions,

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