Greg Cosell expanded on his NFC championship commentary Thursday morning on KNBR’s The Murph and Mac Show. Here’s what he said.
Q: For everyone who didn’t read your blog, tell us your evaluation of the game.
COSELL: “Let me just start with this: It was 49ers football. They played true to their character. It’s a run-based offense. It’s a high percentage of two backs, two tight ends, two backs and two tight ends. Occasional shot plays, pass plays off play action, off boot action. That’s what they do. The touchdown to Davis, the first one – really beautifully designed, great throw by Alex Smith. The second touchdown to Davis – beautifully designed, another great throw. And we know that if Kyle Williams doesn’t fumble, maybe they win the game. He fumbled twice. That’s 49er football – they did not turn the ball over this year. They were +28 in turnover differential. But the problem is what happens when that doesn’t happen? And history suggests that type of thing never happens two years in a row, by the way, that kind of turnover differential.
“But there are other plays in the game – designed, big-play opportunities that were there, and Alex, for whatever reason – and he knows it, by the way – he didn’t pull the trigger. I don’t know whether he didn’t see it well. I can’t answer that.
“The first play of the second half was about as vivid as you could get. You know that’s a designed play because they came out of halftime with it. It was one of their staple plays – what we call a wheel route. They had Delanie Walker on a wheel route from the line of scrimmage tight end position. He ran right by Corey Webster who slipped. He was wide open. There was no pressure on Alex. Only he can tell you why he didn’t throw it. It would have been a 68 yard touchdown, and he ended up getting sacked.
“There are other examples as well. Michael Crabtree is taking a ton of abuse, and he’s certainly not been worthy of the tenth pick in the draft – we all know that. But, on the first play of a drive with four minutes to go and a tie game, Crabtree is wide open on a corner route from the slot, no pressure on Alex Smith – he left the pocket and then threw it out of bounds. These are plays that you have to make in these games.
“Now, am I going to say he’s the reason they lost? No, I think that would be a little strong. But, I think in tight games like that when everything doesn’t go right that’s gone right for your team all year, that’s when your quarterback has to make throws, and there were a few he missed. Obviously, if Kyle Williams didn’t do what he did they might still have won the game.
“When your turnover differential doesn’t work in a given game – and by the way, you can’t count on that. It worked out phenomenally this year, but I’ve done studies, a lot of people have done studies, a lot smarter people than me have done studies – that kind of thing doesn’t happen year after year after year. So, the +28 will not likely happen next year, and when that doesn’t happen – when other things that you expect don’t happen, the magnitude’s of the quarterback’s play increases. That’s just the way the NFL is.”
Q: But what if you look at Alex Smith’s performance this way – that he did throw two touchdowns, that he didn’t turn the ball over. He did what he did all year, and that’s been enough.
COSELL: “That’s the argument. You could argue he did exactly what he’s done all year and if it wasn’t for the turnovers they very likely could have won the game. But, they had turnovers. So, therefore, when that happens your margin for error lessens and your quarterback has to make throws.”
Q: Did Alex Smith outplay Eli Manning in that game?
COSELL: “I don’t think so, personally. Eli threw 58 balls and he had the living crap beat out of him, so you have to give him credit just in that area, that he kept getting up. I believe he was hit 23 times.
“He should have thrown two picks, maybe three. But the one thing I like about Eli – he has amnesia. He just plays one play to the next. He could throw a horrible ball and then the next play he plays like that didn’t happen. I think that’s one of his strengths.
“Eli is a more talented passer. He can make some throws that Alex Smith can’t make because he’s got a stronger arm and he’s more willing to make those throws. Quarterbacks who are willing to make stick throws, which by the way you have to be willing to do in this league, will always at times appear that they force a couple and they might throw a few more picks. But, in this league, in critical moments you’ve got to be willing to make stick throws into small windows.”
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Colin Kaepernick. Study fast and mature young man.
Cosell hates Alex, and Brady, and Rodgers, and………
Cosell loves Eli. This is a joke. Nobody has refuted the 5 non throws or bad throws Smith made in that game Sunday. They just all berate Cosell. Cosell hates all QBs except Eli.
Cosell identified the plays. Who can dospute them. Yes you can see them on the rePlay. Is there one Smith who will refute what Cosell identifies as being blunders by Smith?? Didn’t think so.
You guys are a JOKE!
Let’s see here…..
6 years of HELL
Then a True Offensive HC like Jimbo comes along & turns Alex from a BUST to a Legitimate NFL QB in a Short Stricked Year no less with NO OTA’s…NO Mini-Camps and basically NO Time to work with his QB’s.
You Cement Heads don’t think that Alex can get better next year?
Especially when everybody on this God Green Earth knows the 49ers will HAVE to Up-Grade the WR Position & finally get a #1 WR or two?
It’s like you completely forgotten what it was like the last 6 years & you just think that Alex has hit a Ceiling.
As Usual you guys have REALLY WHIFFED on the Big Picture here.
This whole film break down is a Joke. He is saying that Alex left plays on the field… I think that EVERY QB leaves plays on the field!!! They don’t see every player open. Eli Made at least 2 stupid throws that I can remember that should have been picks!!! And CK…we will see what he can or can’t do next year…but alex will start.
Bay,
Tell me one time alex looked off a safety. Tell me the one time he looked left and threw right. Looked right and threw left. I just want to see video of one throw as a pro. He sees half the football field. He eliminates the left side of the field by continuously rolling out right. With that being said, In the words of DS, ” give alex smith a 5 year 50 million dollar deal!” bwahahahahaha!
Or how many times have you seen a pass batted down at the line of scrimage? A more composed QB would do a simple pump fake to fake the defender.
Nickrow,
4 batted balls against the saints. 3 against the giants. The 1st pass to the now worthless crabtree was a slant where crabtre was wide open. Thats why smith throws these high passes, he might not wNt to get them batted down.
People will try and berate you for complaining about Smiths game but they can’t refute your points. All you hear is that he’s gonna get better, he’s not elite, he’s not the problem, he’s not the reason we lost. If you’re not the solution, you’re the problem!!
true on all accounts!
Good point, also, let’s not forget Tolzien. I think having wide open competition at QB in training will be great. Kaepernick and Tolzien will push Smith and that’s never a bad thing.
Jordan,
Smith NEVER looks off the safety. 8 years in the league and he still can’t do that. Or a simple pump fake, doesn’t do it. The simple things that a QB does to help his receivers.
Hell, it can’t get any easier for him. He’s in a system that has eliminated reads for the wide receivers. It’s like drawing plays in the sand. But there’s one catch. The Qb has to stand in the pocket and give plays time to develop. Not run like a girl and check down cause she felt pressure. ( sorry ninergirl ) lol.
If alex smith has improved this much what makes you think JH can’t improve him more? a whole offseason get JM back and MC has to show up get another WR I think you will see smith improve even more. But who knows only next season will tell. If AS can’t put up numbers this year I say its time to move on.
Alex has reached his ceiling …
Nick row,
Yes sir. You just said it. 195 yards a game. 1 good game, 2 bad ones. Alex Smith is a tease! Bwahahahaha!
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard from someone who is not in amateur or professional sports. Please tell us Nicky, how do you know this, what are you basing it on, and what experience have you ever had in scouting, coaching, teaching, and evaluating talent in any form of athletics?
How can you say a 28 year old has reached his ceiling when he just had his best season by a wide margin. What evidence could you possibly have that his trajectory has leveled out? There’s no way Smith doesn’t get better 2-3 years into the same system, especially with a quality WR. Cosell always omits the fact that when Eli and Brees are making those “necessary stick throws”, they are throwing to guys like Graham, Colston, Nicks and Cruz who are going to go up and fight for that ball. Only guy we have who will fight for it was Morgan. Hope he heals well.
@FDM
We’ve already established that the ‘D’ in your name stands for dumb, so your opinion is just that. What I’ve basing my statement on is the entire body of work of Alex. That’s a pretty good sample size if you know anything about statistics. I’d love to see Alex do well. But all he does is raise our expectations with fantastic play only to follow that up with a stinker. He’s too inconsistent and is play speaks for itself.
Now don’t make me reveal what the ‘F’ and ‘M’ stand for.
@NickRow
I have read the blog for years, and did not know that the D stood for dumb.
Of course had I known that, I would have argued profusely about it because FDM is not dumb. FDM is on of the most reliable fair bloggers here for all the time the blog has been around.
And please tell me how you did in statistics class in college. I got an A. Do you know what stats are good and which ones are bad? Do you know that a Ph.D in stats can just about make a statistical argument that one thing relates to the other if they want to?
Wanna talk stats, lets go. Betcha don’t even know what standard deviation is. Kinda a big deal in stats. How you get it. When you can rely on it, and when is it full of crap. But, you know stats, so please instruct the rest of the blog.
DS, you wrote a entry on this blog awhile ago regarding stats and it was brilliant! All I have to say about stats is that they are for losers, cue Nickrow!
Nick, the pats have the 30 or 31st ranked defense and they are in the superbowl, how does that happen smart guy? Because football is subjective, some things you cant measure. Like Alex Smith’s improvement this year and beyond but this debate is pointless cause the Niners future is with Alex, next year they will win with Alex and the only sad thing is we will have to hear you haters hate. But the good thing is that it will be minimal as you folk only come on here after losses. Dont see that happening much just like this year.
As fo the hitting his ceiling, only the almighty God know that so please spare us your ignorance.
@FDM
I have written a few posts about stats. They are usually long winded and detailed because that is just how the post has to be. : – )
But, I would pull back some on the stats is for losers thing some. I know you meant for football, but stats are used for everything you use in your life, so I try not to say “stats are for losers” thing. Even though I know (hope anyway) that we all know that. I used to say that as well, but have rephrased it more recently.
But stats in football are really just used at a ridiculous rate. For things that they should not be, by people who never took stats and said by people who don’t much care for statistical analysis, or math, because they think it makes them look smart. I’ll save everybody the reasoning…”It does not make you look smart at all.” You better know when/where to use it and how. It’s like somebody trying to put in a screw, not with a screwdriver, but with a leveler. That is how stupid you look when you just throw stats around.
The haters especially look stupid with their STATS.
BS,
Crabtree fights for balls. On the one play I can remember a defender about to pick off a pass from Smith, crabtree knocked the ball away. Nobody can say that crabtree does not attack the ball when it’s thrown to him! I dare anyone to say that. That is and has been his strength since his days in college.
@FDM and BS
Blah, blah, blah. Do you guys have anything fresh to add? The way you two are sucking up to each other is kind of scary and funny at same time.
The Smith blamers all thought he reached his ceiling a few years ago.
Has reached his ceiling!!! Wow. You can’t teach the blind to see…
I can’t agree with you more. If it weren’t for the last 5 minutes of the Saints game, trust in AS would be almost non existent. He got hot for 5 minutes and all of a sudden he’s a franchise QB.
Look people, he doesn’t commit turnovers anymore, and he doesn’t look like a deer in headlights. But look at him, he’s still largely inaccurate and throws fluttery balls with little to no zip on them.
We’re 49er fans, we expect greatness at the QB position. AS is not great, he’s simply average. I understand that with our dominant defense we don’t need a great qb, but we should still always strive to get a great qb. Whether through the draft, free agency, or with existing talent. Our +28 TO margin was a product of great defense, great special teams, and a huge amount of LUCK. We should be on the hunt of a better qb.
Edge, you are exactly correct. Alex had by far his best year and was the QB for a team that went to the NFC championship game. NOW we get to see what he will do with: 1) 2nd season with JH and Roman, and 2) hopefully some game changing WR’s. And as with all NFL QBs, the pressure will be on him to produce and get better, or his team will look for a replacement. I like having Colin and Tolzien on the roster, two young QBs who look like they have a lot of upside. I think you let them (especially CK) challenge Alex come spring. * re: Manning. We’re not REALLY gonna start wasting time talking about him, are we? Just ridiculous at this point. A 36 year old athelete who just had THREE neck operations in 19 months, some spinal fusion with nerves involved (and his last season played was one of his worst) and folks are talking like this guy is coming back!!??????? I would be VERY suprised if he doesn’t announce his retirement fairly soon. In any case, I like our three QBs for next season and beyond.
And by the way, no knock on Manning, one of the greats of all time. But a person sometimes has to make a sensible decision and give up something he may love doing for the greater good of his entire life, family, etc. I remember reading how Montana’s father practically insisted he hang them up after his 2nd year with KC for the good of his family (and how his wife wanted him to retire years before). Mike Shanahan wanted Steve Young to return to the NFL for a year or so as the Bronco’s QB. Young made the right decision, and I don’t think it was just to retire as a 49er as was said at the time. I think he just realized that an athelete does indeed have to look at his own body and his own life and that there will always be the time when he has to move on (despite the intense love of playing the game).
Waiting for Alex to improve is like watching paint dry. B-O-R-I-N-G. Most exciting defense in the NFL with a painfully inept passing attack. Harbaugh will pick up Josh Johnson who is a free agent and has said he wants to play for Harbaugh. Then CK and Tolzien can make it a 3-way competition and we can ship Alex and his salary to anyone who is desperate enough to want him.
Done. Thanks Mountain Jack for the very candide and smart approach to the salary cap. Use that money for 2 stud O-lineman and another running back i say. They will get their WR’s (2) in the draft.
Mountain Jack,
I like that strategy, don’t think it will happen but it is interesting. AS has no trade value, don’t think another team in the NFL would have him as a clear starter.
@nickrow
Weak attack on us.
And, come on little boy. Show me all those stats you have. Wow me.
I’ll start from the beginning with you.
1+1=2
2×2=4
23J comes to back you up…that right there is a mathematical “proof” that you know you’re wrong.
Alex and this team won 14 times and but for a special teams error would have won this game going away. This was a great season for the team and especially for AS. I’ll take my QB analysis from Jim Harbaugh and Trent Balke.
Finally someone see’s things clearly
@Garbear.
Nahhh. I won’t take it from somebody who actually works with the guy and knows what is happening.
I’ll take it from some loser on a blog instead.
(sarcasm)
Manning was going to give it away in one or two series. He threw up two lollipops and got lucky. His pocket was shrinking. Cosell points out the misses Alex made, I’m sure if you broke down Eli’s game he missed twice or three times as many open receivers. If not for the mistakes Cosell would be praising Alex for his ball security.
I agree… They are the only two that count and certainly will not listen to Cosel l or anyone of us who post on this blog… Everyone on here wants to be right, and will fight with others to be right, while JH and TB just do keep doing their thing… AS does exactly what he is coached to do… Let’s see what they coach him to do next year…
Smith only looks at his primary receiver or the check down guy. Plain and simple truth. Did it in the Raven game. Did it in the giants game. Been doing it his whole career.
Exactly … he’s the king of check downs
On the plays Cosell is talking about, those open receivers WERE the primary receivers!
Rame,
That makes it even worse doesn’t it. Alex apparently felt like the receivers weren’t open. Nobody is open. Alex should’ve ran for 150 yards. He must’ve gotten comfortable with the couple of read option runs he had and thought he was Tebow. Even starting playing like him! Bwahahahaha!
Rame – are you on the coaching staff? Do you know the playbook? How do you know who the primary receivers were on any of the routes? Enlighten us all, please…
Having AS with 3 great receivers like the Giants, might get AS confused because after one check down, he might be not have the skill to look at receiver two or three. The first guy got to be open.
Sometimes brilliant, sometimes mediocre … that’s a summary of Alex Smith’s play. You can argue all you want abour lack of talent at WR, but when Walker is wide open for a possible 68 yard TD or Crabtree is wide open for a big play AND the QB doesn’t have the balls to pull the trigger, then some of the blame goes to the QB.
Nick,
Alex has the balls to pull the trigger. HE DOESNT SEE THE RECEIVERS. He lacks full field vision.
What RECEIVERS???? What we lack most is wrs.
VD is the only receiver = 4 tds in the playoffs
The receivers can’t throw the ball to themselves. He missed TWO TD passes in the most important game of the year. Is he the reason they lost? No, but he definitely had his opportunities to win the game. Instead he’s at home, thinking about the ones that got away-the missed opportunities.
Yeah-even on live blog,I said that Smith was throwing the ball away far too soon. Not a defender with five yards..and heaved it to the stands. Or under just modest rush,threw it at the feet. You all saw that one. Alex’s face was like he was drugged. When the pressure gets to him IT GETS TO HIM. He was confident for N.O..he just slid backwards vs the Giants.
I think though getting Manning is crazy talk..36 years old,no future at all to him..and Jeds too cheap for one and done with huge money.
Alex Smith is now the 49ers Monta…good but never good enough and never will be great.
Stan,
For the Smithers, the truth hurts. Obviously, the Giant game was too big for Smith. He sees pressure that doesn’t even exit. Same bad habit as last year. Roll right and throw the ball away.
If anyone has the replay of the game. Look at the 1:47 mark and watch 2nd down in that series. Smith rolls right for no reason and throws crabtree a 6 yard pass at his ankles. Crabtree looks up at JH because the play was right in front of him. JH throws his arms out as if to tell crabtree to calm down. As if to tell him not to get upset. Crabtree was thoroughly frustrated. However many times he got open, he never got a decent pass thrown to him.
Absolutely!
how do you know he can’t improve? From the start everyone saying he can’t take this team to the playoffs. Did. Can’t win a playoff game. Did. Js you never know JH has work to do but that’s what he needs and if he can’t do it then you move on. Nuff said
23J:
Unlike others, I don’t mind your criticism of Alex. I don’t agree with some of it, but thats ok. However I do think you need to hold all the players to the same standard. For example, Crabtree disappeared for most of the playoffs, with the exception of one catch. He did not play like a 2nd round choice must less a top ten player, so I expect you to be as critical of him as you are of Alex.
Eli did not play well. He should have thrown two picks and the Giants should have been out of the game by the fourth quarter. He was lucky.
Brady threw two picks if I recall correctly again the Ravens, so what does that make him?
The bottom line is some of us think Alex has the talent to be a good QB. He needs coaching and playmakers. Most of us don’t think he will be an “elite” QB, what ever that is, but he might be pretty good.
I have had serious doubts about Alex and I still don’t know what level he can get to. I think the coaches have to give him the green light to make more risky throws. I also think we need a go to wide receiver. If the Niners had a probowl caliber wide receiver on the team I think we are going to the Super bowl.
49er42,
First of all let me say that I respect the way you presented your case. I wish other posters did the same instead if deciding to call names and get personal with me. I appreciate that my friend.
On another note, you have to understand that I dint care about other players on other teams. I let their fans worry about them. As far as crabtree is concerned, I have been critical of him on more than one occasion. I have also defended him when the group of crabtree haters attack him. I was critical of him after the saints game. He dropped a couple of balls. He dropped about 10 this year. He also led tge team in receptions and yardage. He also secured home field advantage with that catch against Seattle.
He had been playing well up until the playoffs. He didn’t play well against the saints. That’s as far as catching the ball. He alwYs blocks well. Ask frank Gore. Nobody on this blog has said a word about crabtree blocking. For gore and for alex. Watch his blocks on the read option plays Alex ran in the giant game.
I was disappointed Crabtree didn’t catch any balls as well. However, I wAs at tge game and saw crabtree open on at least 5 occasions. He came back to alex on a couple of Smiths folklife and Smith still threw the ball out of bounds. He throws crabs a 3 yard out that is 3 feet over his head. Crabs makes tge catch and by the time ge comes down, the defender is tackling him. Ne didn’t hive him a chance to make a play.
Edwards got cut because he wAs complaining about alex not getting him the ball. Alex being inaccurate. You could see edwRds frustration during the games. That crock he made up about being injured was a gentlemans agreement between he and JH. I wont complain publicly about alex if you don’t make me out to be a malcontent on the team. After all, Edwards is gonna need a job next year. Watch how he plays next year. Gonna have people wondering why he didn’t play that way for us. He can and will make plays.
As far as JH trusting Alex?? Guys here can’t haven’t both ways. Guys say Harbaugh trusts alex to make good decisions. Sounds like you don’t believe that. Alex does not make good decisions. He makes safe ones. You can’t play the position like that unless you’re getting 38 takeaways a season and you can countnon them. You also need dynamite special teams. No turnovers? We lose 2 of the 4 games we lost.
survival of the fitist. If Smith cant handle the competition of Kap and Scott he needs to go elsewhere. Harbaugh has promised no one gets the qb position handed to them, they have to earn it. If the Media is right, Smith will not be the one who takes us to the Super bowl. I dont care. i say we win our 6th SB without Smith or in spite of Smith. Go 49ers!
Now that the Colts are going more defensive, let’s have a great trade:
Patrick Willis for Andrew Luck.
Trade Smith and our number one. Oh wait Smith has no value : )
Bay,
I was about to ask you to have your head examined! Smith has no trade value to anyone but JH and his system.
LMAO. AS contract is imminent and these dream replacements *aren’t* going to happen just like McNabb, Hasselbeck, Kolb, etc, etc, didn’t happen last year. The brain trust will focus on WR and AS numbers will continue to elevate.
The 9ers are WR away from a Superbowl!
Hofer,
Jordan has asked you several times to list Alex ‘s areas in his game in which he needs improvement. I’ll ask again because you never answer that question. And please don’t say Chemistry.
Bay, now you are Jordo’s mouthpiece the guy that said we can’t get to the playoffs with AS. I’ll say this to you, when AS gets some talent at WR a la VD at TE, then you’ll see AS is the real deal.
That’s like the 6th time you’ve been asked to answer that and you won’t. Gonna ask you a direct question Hofer. Are you tied to Smith either as a relative or through friends? It’s a serious question no joking intended.
Already thought of that. The problem is Willis will definately be int he hall of fame. We have no idea if Luck will be?
First time responder. The 49ers won 14 games this year and all you haters are ready to throw Alex under the bus. I never responded before because I can’t stand all the negativity. Why don’t you take Eli’s game and see how many opportunities he missed during the game. Any QB is going to miss wide open receivers- nobody is perfect ( except all the haters!) . The team went 14-4 after 6-10 last year. Quite an improvement. Nobody was more po’d than me when they lost on Sunday, but they deserve many strokes for the year they had.
@birdieben
Welcome to the blog as a writer!
And, you already know the answer to your questions/comments I am sure.
Go look at Aaron Rogers’ numbers aganist the Giants they are pretty much the same as Smith’s! Rogers had a lot more yards but he had a lot more attempts….. QB rating Smith 93 Rogers 72…. maybe the Giants defense is just playing at a high level right now and it does not matter what QB is playing aganist them!
Give it up. The truth is that Alex sucks. He still lacks the natural instincts that QB requires. Maybe you’re young and are not used to seeing good QB play, but I’ve seen every 49er QB in history starting with Frankie Albert, and Smith doesn’t rank in the top 10, and that’s being generous. He’s a 4-cylinder QB trying to run an 8-cylinder team.
Here we go again! Smith was a big part of the 14-4 season we just had and that’s good enough for me…. I freakin hate badwagon fans
Easy enough for Cossel to praise Eli for taking chances after the Giants won the game. I wonder what he would have been saying if the 49ers had not missed three sure interceptions because of two of their players going for the ball at the same time. Any one of those picks and the Niners win the game going away.
The one area where Alex is superior to Eli is his legs. Eli is a sitting duck in the pocket, and sooner or later it is going to catch up with him. I think Harbaugh and Roman need more designed run plays for Alex, such as the one against the Saints late in the game. I may be wrong, but I don’t believe any of Alex’s rushing yards against the Giants were on designed runs. They were all broken plays. Alex has good wheels, we should use them.
Like it or not, Alex will be the our starting QB for the next three or four years. You can’t argue with 14-4. Instead of all this nit-picking, I would like to see more constructive suggestions as to how we can use Alex’s strengths to give us a better chance of winning. The man is not going anywhere. Get used to it.
Alex’s strengths. Now that is funny. He’s a master at the check down. If we reach the Super Bowl next season it will be because we replaced Alex at QB. To not do so would be a crime against 49er fans everywhere.
true
How come Matt Millen, and others have said otherwise? People talk about ceiling, and how Alex reached it; how are you, or anyone else to know? Don’t make an ass out of u and me.
He had some designed option runs.
Heh, nearly all comments by the haters. That’s who Cosell’s audience dwindles down to.
And the surprise is…where ribico?
about trading Willis: why? I’m glad this person’s not the GM. Larry Grant was serviceable, but is nowhere near the level of Willis.
I wouldn’t trade any great NFL player for any draft pick position. You don’t know who is going to be great coming out of college. You know who is great in the NFL right now.
I would trade a great NFL player (Willis) in an area of our strongest part of our team (LB’s) to help get another great NFL player (LF) in the position of most need (WR).
In the last decade, how many times has a MLB made the play to win the Super Bowl? How many times has a WR? That would be my case.
ONLY time I could think of that you would trade a GREAT defensive player for a draft pick would be if you thought you were getting in return someone who would be one of the best quarterbacks in the league (say Indy shopped the first pick to the 49ers which we ALL know is not gonna happen, so let’s not talk about it much). If a team had the chance for Elway in 1983 for example. For a RECEIVER? Please. I’d never trade any of our top defensive players for Fitzgerald (and that includes not only Willis, but Aldon or Bowman).
@kezar
A WR (JR) was elected greatest football player in history. And LF is the best since JR. A RB (Brown) was the 2nd best player.
But I would not trade a “known” great for an “unknown” great.
A question for you kezar:
Had Elway not won those Super Bowls near the end of his career on the back of TD, would giving up Willis be worth it then (trade to pick Elway)? QB’s are measured most by Super Bowl wins, and Elway was horrible in them before TD. He may have been a HOF QB regardless, but as a GM, I am not drafting for HOF players. I am drafting for players to win the Super Bowl.
At the end of regulation poor Alex had the same score as wonderful Eli. Both QBs could say that they would like to replay certain plays and try it again. So fabulous Eli who threw 58 times to his fabulous trio of WRs scored the same amount of touchdown as poor Alex and his stable of scrubs. The end of the discussion is that they both scored 17 points. The difference in this game was turnovers. We missed three and New York got two and the last one at the most opportune time for them. So I will take Alex Smith for the Niners. He did his job and hopefully by this time next year he will take us the next step.
+1
N56….Isn’t it funny that these “elite” QBs like Manning, Brees and Rodgers, all with quality if not elite receiving corps, have been running the same system with the same OC or offensive minded HCs for atleast 6 years. Hmmmm. I wonder if that has anything at all to do with their success??? Wow the same offensive system in place for 6 consecutive years, didn’t the Niners QBs once have that luxury during the 80s and 90s??? lol All things being equal to everybody but the fans whose brains are thrown out of whack by fantasy football, this offense with Alex leading them, outplayed Brees and basically played Manning to a draw or better in the playoffs. Considering all the roadblocks thrown at them with the lockout, I’d say that was a pretty fair showing for that coach killing, bust of a QB and a Niner offense with a wideout group that scared absolutely no one. 14-4 in Harbaughs system the first year with no offseason. Can’t wait for July! Oh and I forgot, another 4th quarter comeback that tied the score that got them into overtime overcoming Williams 1st turnover.
Bay…Where’s your response to Joe’s comments or as usual you only hide behind someone that agrees with you. Can’t handle it can you? LOL I’m gonna modify a Bruce Campbell line in the TV show Burn Notice. Instead of : spies, a bunch of bitchie little girls change spies to haters. LOL LOL
I don’t know which Joe you are talking about. I don’ t dodge questions..
Niner61, you are totally spot on. It’s taken me FORTY FIVE YEARS as a 49er fan to finally realize the point you’re making (OK, I’m a bit slow!). Peyton Manning had the same offensive coach for his first TEN years. Montana and Young had the same system for years, as did Favre and ALMOST EVERY GREAT QB YOU CAN NAME. There may be an exception or two, but I have now finally realized how important (much more important than I ever thought) coaching is to QB success. Let’s see how our three QBs improve over the next year or two. If indeed Alex improves as much next year as he did this year, that should really be something. Now JH may decide he’s not improving enough or has hit a ceiling and that he has someone better (as Walsh decided with DeBeerg) and in that case, will replace him. But we won’t know until well into next season. Let’s give Alex big time credit for one thing. Sure, he’s made tons of millions of dollars already, but this is the third time his contract has run out with the 49ers and he doesn’t want to go anywhere else. Talk about the kind of commitment and determination to stick with it that we rarely see in today’s atheletes!
56, nailed it. JH and staff knows this and those that disagree can stand by the curb and watch as they did last year.
Alex can be in the same offense for 10 years. It still won’t help him see the whole field. He lacks vision, accuracy and consistency.
Like Cosell or not, he is a 30 year NFL film veteran. He doesn’t work for a blog, he works directly for the NFL. And like it or not, most of the NFL has the same view of Alex as Cosell does. Alex scares nobody. Our defense scares is what they game plan for, it’s what they fear. Frank Gore is what they fear. Never once heard someone say, how are we going to stop Smith…. Buahahahahah.
Bay, the players, JH, and JY support AS. Your opinion is not going to change anything. Why would JH speak so highly of AS all year during the pressers and then make a switch once everything is moving upward. When asked during a presser about BE being the long term answer at WR, JH said, “we’ll see.” A couple of weeks later BE was released. See the difference!??
This year the offense gets a whole offseason of OTA’s, they now know the playbook, and they will find the missing piece WR in FA or in the draft.
The 9ers are a WR away from the Superbowl!
Hopefully? Trade him for Peyton and we’ll have a lot more than blind hope.
Mountain, you have two posts about trading Alex. He’s a free agent my friend. Also no team will trade for Peyton’s current contract and in any case as I explain at length in another post, I would be VERY surprised if Peyton Manning does not announce his retirement in the next few weeks.
Cue the sound of crickets…
I’m sure there is some truth to what Cosell said, but it’s never as simple as it appears to those of us not on the field. Alex is sometimes a little over-reluctant to take chances – which, by the way, got us to a 13-3/14-4 season – but I think he does sometimes miss opportunities – maybe overestimates the danger of an interception on some plays. Still, he wasn’t getting much time to throw, and the receivers weren’t getting open. There are going to be open receivers in every NFL game where the QB never saw them, so if there were just those two missed opportunities, that’s better than average.
As to whether Eli outplayed Alex, hard to say. We all love offense, we all love gunslinger QB play, we tend to hate conservative play because it isn’t as aesthetically pleasing. I think that’s Cosell’s problem right there. But if those two interceptions had been made, as they would have been except for bad luck, Eli would be in for a lot more criticism.
Two evenly balanced teams, one of which got lucky.
@Wilson,
Best reply in the whole blog…..and I whole heartedly agree with every word.
the beauty of the situation: for the first time in 10 or more years, i have faith that we have a coach and a front office which will make the right reads on our talent at wr, qb, rb, etc and make the right plays. we’re going to have to raise our game next year, but we are just 1-2 good personnel calls away from winning another SB. can’t wait to see what they actually do.
fesny, EXACTLY!
Ok, Alex did not have a stellar game. But take away the 10 points caused by turn-overs and we are talking about the 49ers vs. Patriots in the Superbowl.
Cosell made some valid points, especially the one about how history has shown that a team which garners great turn-over plus ratio do not always repeat the following year. And because of this, the QB will need to play a more prominant role.
So all we have now is the hope that Alex will continue his improvement with another year under the Harbaugh plan. Cosell made reference to the ‘stick throws’ which is one I have never heard. But as I mentioned a couple of days ago, will we be able to attract the ‘great’ to ‘above average’ WR if Alex has not shown a penchant for throwing the ‘risk’ or now, the ‘stick throws’ that playmakers clamor for?
Sadly, but once again, Alex will still be on the scrutiny meter next year. And he will need to begin to push the envelope to get to the next level. Let’s get him the ‘speed’ WR to stretch the field and then we can come together and make our assessments.
Well said
Hey 23Jordan, How about how the number of times you stayed quiet when we won ? Yes, Alex should have made those plays but Cossell is only pointing out throws BEFORE the two big fumbles. Hindsight makes a genius out of everyone, get over yourself.
And everybody else who wants to try to throw Alex under the bus AFTER AN AMAZING SEASON is ridiculous. He’s still young and going to get better during the offseason, we need Morgan to come back healthy and draft a big big WR 6’4 or above. Don’t agree? Here are Alex Smith numbers in the playoffs:
Targeting WRs in playoffs: 8 of 29, 51 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT.
Targeting TEs and RBs: 28-37, 444, 4, 0.
(Courtesy from our old Blog Contributor: Eric Branch)
Of those 29 passes I can think of 5 in the last game where receivers where open and the ball got batted down twice, thrown at feet twice, and overthrown a sure td once. On every one of those plays the receiver was open.
I’ll ask you a question Danny. Everyone says Smith will get better. That means you are acknowledging he is flawed. What flaws do you acknowledge he has?
@dannyshoe
If you ever get bored, count the number of posts 23J writes the day of a Niners win and the number of posts after the Niners lose (same day).
That will tell you a lot about 23J right there.
Dannyshoe,
If your really bored, count the number of posts DS writes stating that she doesn’t read Jordan’s posts. Lol.
@dannyshoe
Better yet, calculate the time it takes 23J to write all the posts directed at me which I don’t bother to read. It would add up to quite a few hours.
How do you know if they are directed at you if you don’t read them?
They start out saying
DS
@DS
Please go back to school BigP, if you don’t really know how I know. I do have to scroll down the blog page you know. I do see my name. I just don’t read them. I do see the recent posts mention my name.
Oh.
And if this blog ever got a feature that let me ignore or not see what particular people write, I would use it. So, I would never know if/how often 23J and others write to me.
Don’t need to read what I already know is going to be said:
DS you suck
AS you suck
Just about sums up virtually all of 23J’s posts.
Poor DS. : (
Maturity reaches new heights.
Brought to you by BigP.
And I don’t care what 23J says. I would have to care about him, which I don’t, to care about his opinion.
And you should also count the times DS mentions 23J by name in her posts. Probably gets mentioned as much as Alex Smith in her diatribes.
Her obsession with 23J is stalkerish. She just loves to hate him, and doesn’t seem to think any of us other dummies can see through the fact that she lives to read his posts and then spends hours rebutting everything he says by responding to other people in the same thread.
BigP is right on the money in his observation, and now he’s immature. Now that’s both ironic and funny!
So true, at least she stopped trying to pretend that she is a dude.
Still waiting for those posts BigP where I blame PW and NB for AS not playing up to your standards.
And, good to know that you spend so much time wondering about my gender. Time well spent.
I hope you are not a fortune teller in training with 49erGirl. Because she really does suck with all her predictions and statements about others. Don’t give her any money.
DS,
Your still upset about the “49ergirl, where are you?” blog aren’t you? Holster your tentacles and let it go.
You don’t comprehend english very well BigP.
I stated then, and afterwards, and now here, that I found that whole blog post to be creepy and unprofessional.
I could care less where 49erGirl disappears off to or for how long, or if she ever returned. And if I did care, I would not have been so publicly needy. Grant made a huge mistake by not simply emailing her (we do give our emails to confirm our ID’s, right?) and asking her where she had been, and that her comments are welcome on the blog.
The same results would have happened, but it would be under the rug so to so say.
But you don’t get it. Just like you don’t get how to properly quote somebody if you want respect. What you did was tabloid level of professionalism. Wanna see how to do it? Look at my 12:45 post. I put periods in front and in back of the quote from hof, telling everybody that there was stuff said before and after the quote. I also didn’t add a period like you did.
Careful BigP, think you hit a nerve :-)
The Haters love Cossell the hack as he, like these guys just can’t admit they are wrong about Alex Smith. Can’t imagine watchin a game saying “see, can’t do it” at every snap. Pessimism blows!
@Prime
Remember last week when everybody said Cosell and the haters were ok with AS now, and I said it will take more than a post or two to convince me of that. Well, the guys who hated AS, hate AS. I knew if the Niners lost (heck even if they won), they would still be waiting. Gun loaded and aimed for any sign of bad play.
“Gun loaded and aimed for any sign of bad play.”
Which is exactly what you do to everybody else on the team in trying to justify Alex’s play.
Please find a post(s) where I bashed every single player (all 51 now) on the team in a vain effort to protect AS.
Take your time while you’re at it.
Every mistake is the receivers, every missed opportunity lies with someone else. Alex doesn’t have time to throw, he doesn’t have the receivers to throw to. His O-line isn’t blocking. His targets aren’t diving for the ball. Alex doesn’t put up big numbers because that’s not the offensive system. I’ve heard it all this year in defense of Smith.
“And, even though nobody here believes me, I would post more critical things of AS (but not hate the guy) if the haters just stopped/went away/whatever.”
So you lack objectivity due to other people not agreeing with you, at least you admit it.
I don’t see a single name there.
You did write:
“Which is exactly what you do to everybody else on the team in trying to justify Alex’s play.”
So, that means I brought up every single player on the roster.
Go find the posts now. I am sure you bookmarked them for easy access.
And, you really don’t pay attention to my posts at all do you? I don’t care about AS putting up big numbers. Find the post where I said, “I want big numbers from AS” . And this time follow the actual rules of quoting. You are the one who cares about numbers. Why can’t you admit that? I care about wins. You don’t. AS got the Nines further than 28 other teams. Not bad.
And you really are going to be busy finding me stating that everybody else is at fault and AS is infallible. Good luck on that.
@BigP
What is your fascination with my old posts? Nobody else here brings up posts written weeks ago, months ago like you do on a routine basis.
Why don’t you give that wife of yours more attention instead of marking each of my posts like some obsessed lunatic stalker? Seriously. If you want to comment on things that are written, do so at the time they are written. Don’t wait for weeks/months on end.
I don’t do that with you. Nobody does it like you.
Victim mode. Typical DS. You always spin things in such ridiculous fashion. It went from your refusal to be objective to you wishing somebody was stalking you. Riiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhht.
BigP
You are the one searching thru blogs for things I wrote. Don’t change the subject.
Which by the way was for you to find posts where I attacked every other player on the Niners to defend AS’s crappy NFC title appearance season.
Still waiting on those posts by the way. What is taking so long? Find the post where I blame DA (our kicker) or Andy Lee for AS. You did say that I blamed all our players, right? So, why not start with the ones who made the pro-bowl? It’s ok to admit you were wrong. That you really can’t debate with me. I am still waiting for you to admit that you don’t know a much football or about the Niners as JH does.
You are the one who keeps calling me a victim, not me. So, that has to do with your mind, not mine. A victim would run away. I have not ran away from this blog.
DS is that ego or Grants buddies trying to do him a favor by swarming his blog for hits? I’m convinced the haters are angry people.
@prime
“I’m convinced the haters are angry people.”
And we get to the true definition of what a hater is. AS is just a conduit for them to express their anger.
Ill sum up 23j’s legacy on this blog in one word-JOKER!
@23j your predictions, and analysis is about as elementary and pathetic as your spelling and grammar, you need to get hooked on phonics son!
Thanks Michael odometers, why don’t you get it for me? The truth hurts!! Alex is still the same old Smith.
He obviously isn’t the problem how many games did we win? How many did he drive down the field and score? Who out played drew brees? Just curious? Who’s defense is better then the saints? Hmm I wonder giants who did what they did all year did enough to win if KW didn’t fumble we would be going to the superbowl and none of us would be here complaining. Alex smith didn’t take the risk cause he never was told to I’m sure he was told to play it safe but you don’t plan for fumbles from the speical teams we lost plain and simple alex smith played one hell of a year and I think he will only get better. If JH got him to play like this what makes you think he can’t get him to play better then he was this year?
Nickrow your getting praise from the most notorious hater on here, that’s dumb by association. Congratulations!
Smith get’s the ball blocked at least 2 or 3 games a year, Eli did out play him, but Smith does not have Eli receiver’s , all three of the Giant’s receiver’s are better then MC, but then again, Eli is head and shoulder’s over AS, in the pocket, Eli has courage and has much better pocket presence then AS.
I meant two or three per game, even Drew Brees, who is 4 or 5 inches shorther, rarely get it blocked.
Actually Brees is one of the few QB´s that has thrown a pass to himself a few times, batted into his own hands
@Neal
I have noticed that as well, and have paid attention to that, watching for what does happen when it is knocked down. To me, this is the most frustrating part of AS’s game.
For the most part, it seems to be great leaps by DL. Those guys get some air. Other times,it is because the OL gave up too much ground to the DL, and AS’s possible angles are cut down, so a good leap by a DL can make the knock down.
Maybe undercenter can offer some suggestions as to what AS can do on his end to cut down on the knockdowns. The only things I can think of is for him to get his arm up quicker and throw the ball, cutting down on the time it takes from when AS decides to throw it and actually releases the ball. Coaching should help here.
Another option is for AS to work on when he releases the ball more at he max height his arm goes and not when his arm is not at max height. Again, coaching should help here as well.
Just watched the “Coaches Film” Greg Cosell should get a pair of glasses. The Delanie Walker Pass that never came and Alex got sacked.
Walker was 5-6 yards behind Webster when Webster slipped, and its not like he fell to the ground, he still caught up with Walker, lost about a second. And the play was designed to be a short pass to Walker, did not look like it was there when the moment came. But Alex did have time(4 seconds), there where other players open however as well. But to call it a sure 68 yards TD, is stupid.
where did you watched that, can we see too?
Why would we trade a franchise QB, so we can sign Josh Johnson, the career backup?
Bwahahahaha!
Hof, I’m starting a new campaign if I can trademark your idea, “were 2 WR’s away from a superbowl” Bwahahahaha!
When searching for our next set of WR’s don’t focus on size and speed. See if they have another special intangible. The ability to throw the ball to themselves.
I’ll leave it to JH and TB but you may be correct, it may be two WR’s away from a Superbowl. At least we know the 9ers have VD and he can get separation which equates to 4 td passes in 2 playoff games.
yeah because if our QB doesn’t see separation immediately he gives up on the route.
Yes, there was soooo much separation on the game winner to Davis.
Bay, do you have no embarrassment posting the garbage you do?
Rib why should I be embarrassed? That’s the first time in 8 years Smith throws that pass.
Listen I know we all see it, it’s just that a small group of us choose not to defend it.
So you are in favor of Alex forcing the ball into tight coverage? Yeah, that is the entirely the Harbaugh philosophy.
Sheesh, what this blog has become.
Bay,
You said it right. Smiths best throw in 7 years. And the crowd goes crazy. 1 week later, nobody is allegedly open. Keep defending mediocrity.
This blog is really boring right now.
Mostly who comment are people whi seems happy that the Niners lost so they can bring back that Alex Smith suck endless, annoying discussion.
I’ll take a break and come back by draft time when we have something useful to talk about.
Bay that same fearless offense won 14 games. Look back to the season in 4 parts. The first 4 games Alex goes 3-1 and would have been 4-0 if not a missed assignment on defense against Dallas. After that a tough road trip in CIN and PHI, Alex played great against The Eagles and hit it done in CIN, my baby girl born that day they beat the Bungals.
Next 4 games Alex crushed TB, Come back win in DET, great long drives that game against the Lions and then two managed wins against 2 tough defenses in CLE and WSH.
After that Alex and the offense sputtered but still won 3 of 4. BAL at home we win.
Finish off the seaon 3-1 and all of those were playoff type games against AZ, PIT,SEA and the Rams game was no gimme.
Thr body of work says that’s a good QB in a good system that can win games. The 49er formula is not a one year wonder. It only gets sharper and more dangerous cause Jed, Baalke, and Harbaugh know how to get done. That includes Alex cause they might not build a team around him, but there gianna give him a lot more help. The results are there, the body of work and how it was accomplished by Alex says its a winning formula.
Nah,
this formula is more like the 2000 Ravens. Average QB + monstrous defense = playoffs. Although I must admit Alex is better than Dilfer but just a bit. But Dilfer had a beast running back to hand off to in Lewis.
Meh…
I don’t put a ton of stock in this. Cosell reminds me of Bill Clinton: put the finger in the air and see which way the wind is blowing. He’s like the worst bandwagon fan and we see plenty of that here to know what those look like.
Several writers / commentators noted that NO ONE was open for the Niners aside from blown coverages on Vernon Davis – which, by-the-way required Smith to see and assess the situation. He had to know Vernon was man-covered and the safety was too far off his assignment. So who’s right?
As I’ve said all along, if I can’t see the all-22 tape then I take Cosell with a grain of salt. Not that he’s wrong necessarily but I have a hard time with him contradicting everyone else. Makes me question his objectivity.
I’ll take Jefferey, Sanu, Criner or Jones in the draft. Although it wouldn’t surprise me if they tried to move Davis to WR as the big body deep guy (he’s already doing it) and picked up a Guard in the first round and a tight end in the second. Two Stanford guys might be around at just about the right time in those slots.
I think it ends up being a WR but these guys are sneaky so who knows. The draftek computer says we need two receivers. Maybe draft one and try to bring in a FA (although any of them that are any good will be franchised on their current teams so… I’m not real hopeful there.)
“…and a tight end in the second.”
And actually, Byham is expected to be back next season so who knows.
I still wonder why Sing gave up on Bear Pascoe. Sideline Sheriff is a damned load to bring down.
Adam,
I don’t think VD has the moves to be a WR. He has the straight line speed, for sure, but I question his ability to shake the better CB’s in the league. Plus, splitting out wide all the time would under utilize his blocking ability.
Pascoe couldn’t learn how to block fast enough
@exgolfer
True, VD would not be in to block.
But the Niners invested 3 #1 picks in that OL. They should be able to handle more than they have, and not need VD in to block.
Plus if the Niners get a true threat at WR (one that requires constant 2-teams like LF would), and split VD out wide, how many defenders are left to stack the box without risking a big play TD pass? Add KH’s speed to the outside and teams will be in lots of trouble.
If you keep VD in, then the defense can still stack the box, even with a WR who can attract the 2-teams.
Bear Pascoe was a good draft pick, but Singletary didn’t have the vision to realize the potential there.
In the draft, I really like Sanu at WR. He’s not a speedster, but is explosive off the line, runs crisp routes, has good hands, is very agile, and has a big body.
It’s a good defense with a potentially great offnsene. We get 2 new receivers plus Crabs and Morgan, and its a top 10 offense next year. I’m willing to bet your left nut that they didn’t install the vertical passing game in that offense til week 4 or 5. Arrow up hater!
I think you have that reversed man. It’s a great defense with a potentially good offense.
A true #1 Wide Receiver has to be the focus after the FAs on defense are resigned. The 49ers need someone that will scare opposing safeties and keep them out of the box.
Adam you get two starting WR’s,one in the draft and one in free agency, your idea of flanking VD outwide is money! He can go vertical. Crabs inside and Morgan and a Jeffrey or Jones with a Dwayne Bowe or Colston sprinkled in, that is a top 10 offense next year and dont forget our running game.
What’s also great is we don’t have to spend a lot of cap space to do it. Rookie and free agency.
All World talent at WR won’t matter if the QB won’t or can’t throw to them due to lack of vision, accuracy, poise, and consistency. I certainly hope that Alex improves in these area, but have my doubts based on past performance.
Nick, AS doesn’t have vision or accuracy problems throwing to VD. Why do think that is?
@Hofer
Could it be consistency or lack of? Just a thought …
Nick, not disagreeing that AS has to get better. Adding some weapons would help.
Sounds about right A Smith is just to much of a careful QB it’s gonna take some time for him to cut it lose and that might not ever happen to be honest we just have to wait and see
No level of coaching can make a QB a cold blooded, bad a$$ gun slinger at times while poised, accurate, and capable of raising the play of others. You either have it or you don’t.
There’s only been about 8-10 in the history of the league, tone down the QB expectations just a tad.
2 out of those 6 qualities you named makes a good QB.
Is it OK to have a mancrush on Patrick Willis?
The dude is just awesome, I can’t spell it out any better way:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7497910/patrick-willis-san-francisco-49ers-toughness-personified
Adam,
It’s okay, bromances are allowed when it comes to the 49ers.. Lol.
How can you not cut it loose going 4 wide with Vernon, Bowe, Crabtree, and a Jeffrey?
Do you think Eli has trouble letting it loose with Manningham, Cruz and Nicks?
How bout Rodgers cutting loose with Jennings, Jones, Finley Driver, and oh, Mr. Dependable, Jordy Nelson.
Tom Brady, gee maybe Welker, Ocho, Hernandez Gronko? Edelman, the little rat who can score off a screen. Tell me one WR on the Niners who can score off a hitch pass? And won’t fumble and or muff it? Pun intended!
Poor kid…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ERgfyTN6k-E#!
Cute little guy.
That was me when Leonard Marshall knocked Montana out of the game (damned Giants!) but I was already an adult. :P
That’s still me today.
/sigh
So close. So freaking close.
That video is hilarious!! That is what Bay, Jordan, and 49ergirl will look like when Alex Smith gets re-signed this year.
You sure do have a lot of insults to throw my way, Coach – would like you to find any posts past weeks 1 or 2 when I said he wouldn’t be resigned.
Alex proved a lot this year and deserves to be back next year. Your remarks towards me are both misguided and unprovoked. Curious why the hostility.
That game made this loss hurt even more. I wanted some payback. Now I am rolling with Coach Harbaugh if Alex is his guy next year. I think Alex will improve and it is imperative the “New” Number One Wide Receiver be there at the start of Training Camp, sooner if possible. I would be surprised if CK learned all of the offense and won the job. I think 2013 is the year he may do that. Assuming we sign Rogers/Goldson/Brooks/Ginn I doubt we sign a FA WR. Gonna have to find one by drafting two and after the draft sign another. Gonna need another OLB, RB, Guard, CB/Saftey. If we could get Mr. Hillis like we got Mr. Edwards to fill our RB position I would do it.
I don’t like the crap Hillis pulled in Cleveland this year. I don’t see Baalke or Harbaugh going for it either.
Lockeroom would not allow that, besides remember the Cleveland Browns are at the other end of the spectrum than the 49ers when it comes to franchises.
A 13-3 record. One game and a muffed and fumbled punt away from the SB and the Alex haters are back in full force. Simply amazing.
+1
+2
+3
it includes grant their leader
Grant is usually fair and balanced. It would be great if he could contact Tollner or Gannon and get their analysis on AS and his growth this year. We’ve heard enough of the negative aspects (Cosell, etc) give us the counterpoint please.
@hof
I put my faith in JH when we hired him.
Why can’t we put our faith in him when it comes to his evaluation of AS?
Why can’t Grant ask JH about his eval of AS? I don’t know if he will actually answer the question, but it is still worth a shot.
“..I’ve done studies, a lot of people have done studies, a lot smarter people than me have done studies – that kind of thing doesn’t happen year after year after year… ”
I call BS. His so called studies are to look at the record books and see that no team has done it before. There it is impossible. QED.
The guy is a total hack. He knows less than we do about the Niners.
Cosell is commenting on what he sees on film but he doesn’t know the dynamic between Harbaugh and Alex. They are philosophically joined at the hip. If the score is close Alex will not take a chance with the ball. Let the defense and special teams hold the game. That’s Harbaugh’s Schembechler mentality and Alex shares it. In all of Cosell’s examples the 49ers were ahead or tied. There is no way Alex is risking the ball in those situations. That’s not Harbaugh football.
The big question is, why isn’t Roman on the same page? Why is he calling shot plays when the 49ers are tied or ahead? He should know they’ll end up as check downs.
When the 49ers have been behind and needed passing Alex has come through most of the time this year. He had a bad game against the Giants but so did Rodgers. Bad games happen, it just sucks more when it happens in the playoffs. Alex showed enough improvement this year to make me hopeful for next year and that’s the first time I’ve been hopeful about Alex since 2007.
Besides, who the heck is out there as a replacement? Matt Moore? Jason Campbell? Top tier QBs don’t grow on trees and more importantly, QBs that share Harbaugh’s game philosophy aren’t very common.
Harbaugh-ball got us to the championship game. I’m ready to watch it for another season.
Nickrow if you think Sanu runs crisp routes you’re even dumber and less knowledgable about football than it appears. And that’s saying something.
Hey genius, here’s expert analysis of Sanu. If you have reading comprehension issues, that’s not my problem.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664646/mohamed-sanu
To quote Denny Green,Alex IS who we thought he was. As usual Cosell tells it like it is .Alex is a very good backup quality QB,I hope he stays as our long term backup.
Thanks Tim. lol
Tim great comments as usual, when Alex is winning he’s your QB, when they lose, he’s your best backup. Have an opinion Tim and stick to it, otherwise your waffling makes you look incompetent, Im sure you know that already.
@FDM
In a time of politicians changing their views on a whim, we will always have Mr. Tim staying the course. Iceberg or not.
TIM is a hater pure and simple.
Tim has been very fair this year and actually gave Alex’s many props.
I actually have mountains more respect for people that critique when the performance is bad and support and applaud when the performance warrants it.
The crowd that is tough to take are the ones that support NO MATTER WHAT.
I for example know that we need a 2nd cover corner, a WR and an O-lineman oh and a QB. If that makes me a hater then so be it. I look at it as seeing our weaknesses and wanting to get better.
I suppose if one appreciates backhanded props!
TIM is the most passive-agressive poster I’ve ever seen in any forum on any topic.
So what are the options as far as an AS replacement? Is Troy Smith even still in the league? Or Nate Davis? Josh Johnson is the second coming, which everyone can see in his handful of appearances. Peyton Manning could go learn a new system easily, since only Alex Smith can’t do that. Matt Flynn is the answer because he had a couple good games over the last couple years, or is he the answer to the question “who became the next Rob Johnson”? How many of the haters will sit patiently while the team goes 4-12 grooming a young QB?
I don’t care who the players are, as long as the team is competitive and hopefully winning. Considering how year one went in the rebuild, I’ll trust JH to make the proper roster moves to keep everything arrow up.
Thank you, Sean. I think trusting JH is the only solid position to take on Alex Smith. As long as he says Smith is our best QB these criticisms are misplaced. As fans we can only speculate as to what is going on on the field.
And, if Kyle Williams doesn’t let that ball hit his leg, half of the Smith criticisms never appear.
Sean, well said. JH knows the QB position and if he thinks taking a step back by adding a new QB will help the team, he will do it. I don’t think he will go in that direction. AS is only 27 and has done well in this system and can continue to get better by elevating his game under JH tutelage. Add a few more playmakers on offense and this 9er team can be set for the playoffs for 3-5 years.
Cosell may not like Smith and he was abusive in his last article, but he is spot on here. SMITH IS NOT AN ELITE QB! Niners fans just cannot live with this knowledge. However, if they have great defense, special teams and turnover ratio he can and will do enough to win. If they do not, he will not keep his job over time. Now maybe he develops into an elite QB. If he does, awesome for us. If he doesn’t, our D and running game better make up for his deficiencies.
Peter: could you define “elite QB”? Let’s see. Would your definition include Aaron Rodgers who put up a whole 3 points more vs the Giants than Smith? Would it include Drew Brees who got outdueled by Smith?
@dr
I asked Grant if he could do a blog subject on defining an elite QB. I don’t think it is so easily defined where it does not include non-elite QB’s while including all the elite QB’s in history.
“Elite” is used far to much without a real clear definition for my tastes.
Peter, can’t disagree with your assessment. There are few (less than 5) elite passers in the NFL and AS is not one of them. He is improving and can be top 10. The 9ers did not lose to the Giants because of AS. It was ST mishaps and usually the team will the most turnovers loses.
smith needs to improve for the 49ers to keep him past next season. he needs to improve at least as much as he improved from last yr to this. i see no reason that he wont, with full ota’s and a full camp under harbaugh
please do’nt quote cosell to make your case. he is just not an expert at all. use aikman ,gruden, jaworski……they know what they are talking about
Alex Smith did not progress this year. His number only inmproved in lack of Int’s. It 2 games this year, when it came time for him to win a game he lost them. Hell in the Dallas game, Harabaugh didn’t even have enough confidence in him to take a fg off the game and go for the juglar. Alex smith needs to be gone. We don’t need a legit number 1…. you get rid of Alex Smith and bring in a good QB, and our Wr get better just like that.
English please.
@Adam
A functioning cortex is required for such an act. Don’t bet on that happening.
Yes sir!!!
i have’nt heard a single real expert say that smith did’nt improve this yr. how much is arguable, but to say he did’nt improve at all is just silly
One of the secrets to our success in the future is sitting on the roster! Scott Tolzien. Kaepernick may be good, but I can guarantee Tolzien will beat him out eventually. He is a QB that can make those throws in tight coverage. And he has one heck of an arm.
??????????? You got all that from one preseason game? Tolzien is smart and has good feet. He also has the weakest arm of the three QB’s. Given that, how can he make throws into tight coverage with the weakest arm?
Once Kaepernick learns to be a QB there is no one on this roster that will be able to compete with him. Every part of him is superior to both Tolzien and Smith. The big question is what is the time frame for Yoda (Harbaugh) to team him the force.
You would take just about any other QB that can walk as long as its not Smith. Too bad that you will have to construct more arguments against Alex for the next 3-4 years as he will be extended and I dont see CK beating him out for the starters job in that time frame.
Have you considered the o-line is intact, we have a great short to mid range passing game, and with an offseason to upgrade the WR positon and fully install the play book which will include an indpeth vertical passing game, how can AS lose the job?
Think about it, when the Niners go 4-5 wide with a potential lineup of Crabs, VD, (BOWE/Colston-Free Agents) Rookie- Jeffrey?- and Morgan,thats a top 10 offense next year. you know Baalke will get this offense some serious playmakers through free agency or the draft so pal, arrow up with AS behind the controls for a long time!
….and we have a ton of salary cap room to sign all our defensive starters and then some!
@FDM
The Niners are in a great position. Why/how anybody here can be upset “Sky is falling.” “End of the World.” type thing is just pathetic.
The same people were happier this time last year for no reason other than AS said he was leaving. Our 6-10 to 13-3 improved record matters not. Not a single thing they said was accurate. All those satements about other QB’s (Kolb who only won 2 games) were being hailed as the Great One was, and remains, ridiculous.
Why would anybody give their opinion the time of day after all their facts were disproven really is one of lifes mysteries.
what is the salary cap the niners have that has not been spent
The name. It’s all you are. I’m not here to “refute” anything but keep up the good work you babies!
I mean how is that not factual? Look at the above 30 post.
crabs is an outstanding #2 problem is the 49ers are paying him like a #1.What i’m hearing is they do’nt have enough cap room to sign there own free agents and a #1 with crabtree getting what he is getting. i think they should cut crabtree [if it saves enough cap room] sign a #1 like jackson bowe or colston. Then draft coby fleener in the 1st round. josh morgan will become a solid # 2
coaches say crabtree works hard and is smart….instead of cutting if there was ever a time to trade MC and not take a hit on the cap it would be now if the coaches really don’t see the AS/MC chemistry (or whatever) providing anymore dividends than what occurred this past year….not advocating it but it seems like it would have to be an option on the table….maybe they could only get a 2nd rounder for him so business vs on field production needs to be addressed……let’s say i would not be surprised if MC was traded
As for AS….of course i don’t see him getting a high end starter salary….as i said he did not make this offense his own….i say he played as well as eli did in the nfc game…eli had the advantage of having a cruz creating separation in the middle of the field….one thing eli is better at is knowing where his receivers are as the play progresses and therefore that simple factor to me is why eli has made his offense his own….
if AS stays with the niners he will have to do a lot of film study to see what plays he left on the field because he didn’t realize who was coming open later in the progressions…but even so if it is a new stable of rcvrs it will take time for that part of the game to develop….It would be interesting to know if JH is investing time with CK right now to see if he wants to move on from AS and save money for bigger priced weapons….it would be one way to keep that defense together intact and get some offensive weapons…..
i will have to put some thought into it letting AS go for the overall good of the team as far as weapon building and defense retention
still not sold on carlos rogers…may just let him go and go with culliver and find another swivel hipped CB in the draft
@jg
Crabs is not going to fetch anywhere near a #2 pick. Guys, Joe Montana only got a single #1 pick, so lets keep things in perspective here. GM’s are going to notice that MC did a vanishing act in the post season and you can blame AS all you want; but it’s funny how AS found VD open quite a bit and got him the ball. Trading players is like trading in cars. You will never get what you pay for them, unless you deal with Hue Jackson (not likely since he won’t have another NFL HC job in the next decade if ever), then you just might get your initial investment plus interest in return.
I don’t think AS gets a higher end QB salary (near 17 million a year).
But I don’t think he really cares to have/demand such a salary. AS is a team player, and wants the Niners to sign all their FA and (though I know he would not say so in public) get him a few vet WR’s who at the very least can get open. Considering AS got 5 million this year, and Kerry Collins got 4 million for his short stint at Indy, a good 10 million a year would not shock me. QB pay scale, that is not a lot.
JH has made his position of AS quite clear. When asked about AS, he said he already made his opinion clear that he thinks AS is a pro-bowl QB. I know he said the competition thing, but that is just JH maintaining his position that everybody has to earn their job. He fully expects AS to earn his starter job, so there is no QB controversy at Niner HQ’s. Only here in blog-land.
know this already….but it doesn’t amount to a hill of beans…
MC is not even worth a 2nd…..whatever
this is the time for JH and baalke to sit back and really go over options….small maneuvering type options, i.e. get WRs or team changing across the board type changes that may be more beneficial to the whole team and spreads the money around a bit more balance….
of course i have no clue …. but MC being gone won’t surprise me and not coming to terms with AS although unlikely would not be the worst thing for the team if CK or tolzein are not that big a drop off from AS if it bring a stronger balance across the the makeup of the team….just saying…it needs to be reviewed
… not the #2 pick but a 2nd round pick
@jg
I don’t see how either CK or Tolzien or somebody else would bring balance to the team if they replaced AS.
This season was as much about AS redeeming himself as anything else. His teammates always believed in him, and now they were rewarded. Getting rid of AS would destroy all that they built together.
Besides, CR and AS have said that they want to have the team come back as much as possible. To me, that means that they are willing to give up some of the money they could make some place else to stay here…and to keep those who made this year so wonderful here as well.
People talking about getting Manning are foolish. Manning is the OC in Indy. How would you merge his ego with Harbaugh’s? His system with the Coach’s? Harbaugh’s concept of “team” would go out the window. As far as Alex goes, if you could upgrade any two positions on the offense what would they be? WR and ? We’ve got plenty of starters and backups at OL and TE, pretty good runners (though I don’t see Dixon as the new Gore), so what is left? To get better you wouldn’t consider the QB position?
Although JH is the guy that AS looks up to, you have two guy’s that are Hall of Famer’s, one the best ever and another one the top 10 of all time in Montana and Young, these guys have won a Super Bowl and Super Bowls, JH as a QB was never in that category, don’t understand why they can’t come in and help to get AS to the next level, yes he improved a lot but he still have some flaws, mostly in his head and he needs to help on third downs and red zone’s. Also I know these guy’s had more to work with in a top receiving corp but it can’t hurt. Steve and Joe had strong mental game, and AS does not.
@Neal
What great NFL QB has ever been a great NFL HC?
None. I mean BW only played 1 year of pro football I believe, and he is the best HC/QB coach ever.
@DS
Not my point at all, we have two great QB’s living in the Bay Area, and not to use them , is a waste of resources. If I was AS, I would see their help.
@Neal
How often are the people who are really great at something also really great teachers? In my experience, the top people often are the worse teachers. They are often impolite, rude, not understanding, to quick to judge, etc. They want others to keep up with them, and if they fail to keep up with them, those top guys get mad.
So, the best teachers are often those who were not at the “top” of their respective fields. But rather people who have an understanding of the subject matter, and just have an innate ability to teach.
Not to even call them , because we are under the assumption that Joe and Steve would be lousy teacher’s is naive. Steve has said a few times on KBBR that he would like to help Tebow out to have a better delivery.
@Neal
First we don’t know if AS has ever not spoken to SY or JM. I am fairly certain that at some point he has spoken to at least one of them. I mean he sat down with SY for an interview nest aired on ESPN the day of the title game. I am sure the two spoke off camera about how to be a QB.
If you are referring to an actual coaching gig, neither JM or SY have ever wanted to be one. I know because they would have been hired based on their rep alone. It is a very different thing teaching somebody than it is to just do it yourself. It requires different skills, and in many situations, does not require that the teacher be able to perform the task as well as the student. Do you think Tomasula can actually rush the passer, get leverage as well ass JS can, or that he can show JS how to do so better than he is now?
But, it is not wise to search the teacher out. It is the teacher who searches for the student. For example, JH searching out AS.
@ 49er Girl,
I agree with you too. Next year will be the time that we can judge AS to a higher standard. I trust JH, and I expect that we will pick up at least two top end receiver’s, perhaps a veteran from free agency and a draft pick. We will see if the passing game becomes what we would like. No more 1 for 13, on third down conversions and I hope we kick 1/2 the field goals we did this year, because the other 1/2 will be touchdowns. Every year we give AS the benefit of the doubt and this past season was the first that he show’s promise, he needs to be a consistent B QB, not a A one week and a F the next.
If we can find A player’s to surround AS, he can be a B QB and we should be fine.Also GR has to be a A offensive coordinator, he had great call’s some games, and other games his call playing was horrific, let’s give him the benefit of doubt as he was a rookie and let’s hope he grows into the job as well.
Alex Haters will always be Haters. Even if he is the QB of a winning super bowl 49er team in the next couple of years, the haters will still find reasons to hate him. As a long time Faithful 49er Fans, thank you Alex for the greatest come back victory in 49ers playoff history against the Saints. I love my 9ers, I will always root for whoever is the QB of my team.
@Tony
You are correct.
Some of you big AS supporter’s, take it so personal that if we are critical of AS, we are hater’s, kind of ridiculous. Sorry but when you have a team that was rich in history with QB’s and you have AS, who might be a B QB after everything is said and done, and being critical of him and we are hater’s, I guess you are very touchy and sensitive people. I don’t have a ounce of hate towards Smith, I don’t take it that seriously but I am going to be critical when needed, especially when he did absolutely nothing in the 4th quarter. Do we all need to drink the Kool aid, so we all agree that Smith boy oh boy, he is a hell of a QB. Feelings nothing more the Feelings.
@Neal
I actually defined what a “hater” is to me rather recently.
It isn’t as simple as not liking AS. It is more than that. You can go back and read my definition if you wish.
Neal,
I share your exact same sentiments, yet I have been labeled a “hater” by a couple people in here. I have absolutely no hate towards Alex (I actually think he is a great person and love what he was able to accomplish this year), but some of the overly sensitive think it’s OK to throw around the word “hater” like they are supreme all knowing, all mighty beings who are allowed to redefine the term as something other than a vile and disgusting nickname.
I’ve only ever seen one person on here who said they actually “hate” the man (Brother Williams), nobody else deserves to be labeled a such -it’s too strong of a word.
9ergirl, I hear you. I’ve been on the receiving end from other side for supporting AS when he took all of the blame for the former HC’s weakness (mainly lack of experience). The two extremes (pro and con) need more balance in their analysis.
AS has improved and needs to continue to do so. If JH and staff believes in him, who are we to disagree based on the accelerated success this year that no one expected!!
Year one has been a hell of a ride!
Thanks Hof, we don’t always agree on things, but have always respected each other – I’ve always appreciated that about you!!!
This season was pretty special, and although I am still disappointed and depressed over the last game, I am sooooo looking forward to 2012!! Plus, it will be nice to have an actual off-season to talk about with free-agency, the draft etc. – last year was so painful with the strike!!!
Has anyone heard from Crab15 since that game? I haven’t been around much myself, but I hope he isn’t too upset with MC’s performance and will be back soon :-)
9ergirl, haven’t seen anything from Crab15 after the game. He may be in depression mode like many of us. Hope he re-surfaces soon – he’s one of us!!! A good dude!
@Neal
No searching necessary now.
Just look at my post on this blog at 12:45PM for a very brief but accurate description of a “hater”.
all that being said alex needs to impove next yr
I can see JH continuing to develop an O scheme similar to the Pats with VD & Walker being the main guys like Gronk & Hernadez. All that is missing is a Welker type receiver that can get open consistently and make plays after the catch. Crabtree is really a #2, Morgan is also, Williams has potential, but what we need is a stud #1 that commands attention to really open up the O. Keep the basic components we have, add a FA #1 WR and give JH &GR another off season to refine it and we will be better next year. I’m just praying they can resign the FAs on the D and keep that unit in tact. As far as the draft goes, we now have the talent level to go for the best player available and keep stockpiling young talent.
Dewayne Allen TE Clemson perhaps.
I wish Alex Smith would just end this whole debate himself and sign with another team. So sick of waiting for this kid to grow up already.
Just looking at the number of hits this post and AS related ones like it, it seems Grant has stumbled upon the formula for getting hits to his blog: just mention Alex Smith and his shortcomings and let the responses fly. Sensational journalism at its best…
Grant, some of your best work have been the looks inside the locker room with the stories about Dixon, Ginn, etc. I said it before a few weeks ago, but I’ll say it again. It’s interesting that you choose to post these interviews with Cosell from KNBR, while ignoring the weekly interviews on the same Murph & Mac show with Bryan Jennings. He’s articulate, entertaining, and gives a good pulse for what’s going on with the team. Of course, he won’t generate the hits the Cosell ones do because, frankly, his interviews don’t fit the agenda of the Smith debate it seems you try to keep going on this site.
@calistoga
Yes. Funny how the interviews are chosen.
A blog about AS will always get at least 200 hit.
Heck, just have AS in the title of the blog. It does not have to include any actual AS discussion on Grant’s part.
i agree i would rather hear from bryant jennings far more than cosell. jennings knows the game cosell is a media bufoon
I think you bloggers should stick to blogging and stop trying to analyze Alex Smith’s play. Probably 99% of you have never played QB and thus have no idea of the reads that Alex made pre-snap as well as the timing of the so called “primary receiver’s” routes. Do any of you haters know what defense the Giants were in when Alex “dropped the ball”? Doubt it, b/c you all think the QB just drops back and looks for a red jersey that doesn’t have a blue jersey close to it. That’s not how progressions and pre-snap reads work. When Alex made his decision, the WR was covered – guaranteed. However, the improvising is where most QBs begin to separate themselves. And Alex needs work there, but our receivers especially do too. Also batted balls come with every quarterback. It is actually the offensive linemen who are supposed to help keep the defensive linemen’s hands down to help negate that. We need some work there. Alex is not my favorite QB and I have my doubts still, but he did an awesome job this year. Please – if you are going to bash a player/s, know something about the position instead of what your “couch intuition” tells you!
@Fatu
Actually, I have stated:
“I don’t know anything about what happens.”
“You think you know, but you don’t, and you never will” has been another one of my mantra statements (that includes me if there was any confusion before).
And you are right. I have never played QB, or any other position. I don’t pretend I have either.
And, I too agree that AS needs to improvise more. For no other reason than when he does do it, it is usually successful. If he stank at it, I would not him to do it. But the fact is he made some nice throws this year, and runs, which were all spur of the moment. I hope JH and GR encourage him to do a little more of it. Of course, if you do it to much, the WR’s, OL and coaches will get mad at you because you are not doing what the play called for you to do, and at some point, that comes back to haunt you. I think AS still has a little ways to go till he has to worry about that though.
Look folks, you can call me a hater, but here’s the situation.
We’re solid on defense and special teams. The window of opportunity is about 3-4 years – given that we keep intact the personnel and coaching staff. With this in mind, JH and Baalke will certainly bring Alex Smith back next year, perhaps a few more years. The reasoning may be that Alex’s flaws in accuracy, poise, consistency, and vision are perhaps ‘fixable’. They’ll take that chance, add talent at WR, and ride to the playoffs next year. But beyond that, JH and Baalke would be naive to bank the future on Alex – especially if he fails to address his flaws. For that reason, CK, Tolzien, and whomever else they decide to bring in will get plenty of opporutnities in training camp and pre-season to showcase their talent and to push for the starting job.
However, none of this should stop us from bring critical. Being critical is not hating. Rather, it’s pointing out areas that need improvement.
Nick,
Clearly the biggest weakness from 2005 – 2010 were the HC’s yet AS received 67%+ of the blame for teams losing record. Now, the weakness is WR yet AS gets 50%+ of the blame for the shortcomings on offense. I’m not saying don’t criticize the QB, but spread the blame equally!
@hof
Come on now.
As an avid reader of the blog for years before I started to post, I think you have a typo.
That 67% should have been a 97%. A simple typo if you were using a number keypad to type.
Many understood the shortcomings of the HC’s so the 67% plus is about right. Now we all know the history of AS. Doesn’t mean he gets a pass but I believe JH proved even without OTA’s and not knowing the playbook fully, the AS could improve and be very productive which included quite a few wins this season. Imagine after this year and then a full offseason which includes OTA’s and adding playmakers on offense.
@Hofer
I agree, blame can/should definetly be spread. But since this blog was regarding Cosell’s comments on Alex Smith, most posters have been critiquing Alex. This doesn’t mean other components of the team are perfect. Just the scope of the discussion has dictated it.
@nickrow
“…you can call me a hater..”
I’m calling you a hater because you were a dick to FDM defining his name in a vulgar/insulting manner. It really is not that complicated.
It just so happens that you also hate AS. Something that has not gone unnoticed. It is actually quite common for the” haters” to act in such a manner and they just happen to not like AS.
Oh. Yes.
Find somebody who I call a hater (me only) who did not insult me or somebody else in such a vulgar manner.
I know that people have history on this blog and asking for us all to love one another is just a waste of time. I simply ask those who dislike me to not read my posts. And I have done the same likewise. Sad that the whole blog has to suffer because some people feel it necessary to discuss with those who don’t want to discuss with them.
@hof
“Many understood the shortcomings of the HC’s so the 67% plus is about right”
I wasn’t talking about the many. Without calling out names (because their ego can’t take it, I won’t name them). Sorry if we misinterpreted one anothers posts.
@Calistoga
I’d add calling Alex “Alice” would qualify under that list. Especially if some people don’t even know why that is a bad thing to say. Those are haters.
Haters also go out in a cuss-fit and see to it that they maintain the right to do so at any time for any reason to anybody.
And of course haters seem most joyous after a loss than after a win.
But as you said, there are many other reasons.
@DS
It sounds like you have some personal issues. I suggest you take a break from this blog, step outside (the weather is beautiful today), and relax a bit.
You called me a ‘dick’. It seems that something may be missing from your life. Hmm, I wonder what that could be.
I have issues with people who come on here waving the Niner flag, then express a lot of hate at both the team and fans of the Niners.
You came on here and just attacked FDM for no reason. And AS after he lead the yeam to the title game.
The one with issues is not me. It’s you. Especially if you give so much thought about my dick.
Being critical is one thing, “hating” is another. Here’s where I see the line:
Critical – Sticking to facts and history, i.e.:
-Before this year AS was widely considered a bust
-AS has a tendency to not take risks which causes him to not throw when plays may be there to be made – saves him from interceptions, but leaves plays on the field
-Visible accuracy issues
and on and on..
Hating – Blanket statements with no basis in fact, only conjecture and opinion. i.e.:
-”We’re a QB away from a super bowl” – Team game, sure if AS had played better we’d probably be there, but we’d also probably be there if the D could have gotten off the field on third down in the first half, or if those two fumbles hadn’t happened.
-”AS has hit his ceiling” – no one can accurately say that until we’ve seen him level off or decline. He had a upswing this year and he could regress or keep improving next year. Unless you have a crystal ball this kind of statement is “hating” to me.
I could go on and on with these examples for both areas…
-
Difficult to disagree. AS is only 27 and with an HC that was a QB and offense -minded, he has made great strides in 2011. With a full year that includes offseason work, he has plenty of upside. I don’t disagree with the reasons why some here are highly critical of AS, I just disagree that replacing him is the answer. Especially now when the arrow only points up.
Yeah, the blanket “expert” absolutes are irritating.
Just makes the person look foolish when the, “I guarantee ______, mark my words, book it, count on it, I will leave if it doesn’t happen, blah blah blah,” doesn’t actually happen.
The hate on fellow fans is also irritating. So tired of all the sniping between the groups.
If we have a premier receiver or two next year, the O-line improves and the coaching is stable but Alex isn’t producing? Well then we know and everyone should be happy we’re moving on.
There’s no one here qualified and/or capable to determine what Smith’s ceiling is. If he makes more progress with Harbaugh’s system?
Dunno. I’m still “coach’s choice,” on this. If he’s on board with Smith, so am I.
@ Adam
Agree the constant bickering is so lame….
its not really pointing out anything because no one of any importance is listening to us. its just venting
The only reason why we call you haters-23j, bay, girl, BiG P and Nickrow and grant is because you can’t anknowledge the fact that Alex can improve. You are set in the thinking that he has reached his ceiling and can’t get better. My problem with that is no one but the almighty can say for sure. Anyone’s opinion on this is pointless. The likelihood of AS getting better unde thi regime is far more likely to happen than regression based on people leading the organization.
Alex has improved and should be back next year. Where exactly does that make me a “hater”. You think I hate the guy because I don’t think he’s the next Joe Montana? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
“Hater” implies malice and contempt and wishes of pain and suffering on someone. Most who feel he has reached his plateau or ceiling can be considered “non-believers”, but does not mean they “hate” him. Its a cruel word and isn’t really appropriate in those terms.
Hater is by FAR the most overused word on this blog, and in most sport blogs for that matter. It’s code for “I really don’t agree with you” We all think our opinion makes the most sense, people just need to realize that others have valid points too. 99% of the people on this blog LOVE the Niners.
If you hate anybody on the Niners for their play, you’re the one who should look in the mirror. As they say, “Hate the game, not the player”
“Hater” implies malice and contempt and wishes of pain and suffering on someone.”
Thats a little over drmatic definition dont you think in the context of sports?
Like Prime said, no one knows if or when someone reaches their ceiling because there are too many factors that go into play. For one, the upgrade in talent around Alex. With a lineup that could include for hypotehtical sake-VD, Crabs, Morgan, a free agent WR and a 1st round rookie WR, that offense becomes top 10 with or without the running game.
For people to say he cant become accurate, and cant see the whole field, and cant be a winner, cant come from behind in big games, is flat out hate. They said most of those things based on little to no knowledge and all of them came true and the rest will follow. So I ask you girl, how is that not hate, the negative thinking and bold predictions are from people that cant see past their ego and admit they are wrong or wont come to the realization that all their negative thoughts could infact come to light. No fan or coach or scout can predict the development of a player, but what they can do is surround the individual in an environment with a supporting cast to help that development and elevate that ceiling each year.
Why is Rodgers, brees, Eli so great, they have a good system, good coaches, and great surrounding personnel. Thats what alex will have moving forward. will he ver become those guys, no, but he sure as hell will win with those factors in place.
@Bray
Back when the term was first being used, I offered a truce.
“I stop using the hater term if you stop using the Smither term.”
My thought being that by calling others here in some other category (Smither is not a Niner fan, but an AS fan) which is not Niner fan. The one thing which is supposed to unite us all; creates a division between us which then makes it easier for us to offend one another personally. This has lead to every major fight on the blog.
The haters at the time had the numbers, and replied “Screw you. We can do what we want, and treat you as we like.” in effect. So, I promoted the category and use of the word hater. Had they accepted my proposal of “no more Smithers and no more haters”, I would be persuading others no to use the hater label. But, history is as it is.
@FDM
Well bay did threaten to beat up pork if he ever saw him in real life because pork has a different view of SY than many here (including bay and even myself do). Although I didn’t threaten to beat pork up over it. Kinda a major difference between bay and myself right there.
I hear ya DS, for the record I think you have some of the best ‘takes’ on the overall health of the team.
I was just bringing it up because I agree, Can we just get over the whole Hater vs Smither thing, there are other MORE enjoyable things to discuss about this team. I understand alot of people feel Alex is the reason we ‘sucked’ for years and why we didn’t make to the SB, those people are flat out clueless and have most likely never played football and don’t understand the synergy needed between all parts of the team to be succesful on a consistent basis.
Carlos Rogers had a great take that I spoke of the day they lost the NFC Championship. How many teams could be 1-13 on 3rd downs, play 90 snaps on defense, have their WR catch 1 pass and have 2 crucial turnovers deep in their own territory and not get any turnovers back ans STILL take the game into ovetime. This team is GREAT, it will be hard to recreate the turnover magic, but man we have got something real solid to work with here, let’s look forward to where we might go in the years to come.
@Bray
1. I had not heard CR saying that. Pretty cool though, and just another reason why I think he is not just going after the biggest bidder, but really likes it here after so many losing seasons in DC.
2. I have repeatedly stated that however this year ended, things are brighter for us than any other time this century. So why some people are so negative about things, I’m just not smart enough to figure that out. So, it will be hard to move on if people are so mad about 13-3 NFC Title game, nearly Super Bowl season, and act like we stank while attacking Niner players who were a major reason for the success. As a fan, I’ll defend my teams players. Especially against people who have so frequently called those who defend Niner players a bunch of bad, bad things.
Primetime,
“The only reason why we call you haters-23j, bay, girl, BiG P and Nickrow and grant is because you can’t anknowledge the fact that Alex can improve.”
Hmmmmm….I’m pretty sure I (and others) have acknowledged that Alex has IMPROVED many times. I simply don’t need to be told that he is something that he isn’t at this point. I’m happy that he will be here next year, I just expect to see improvement. I cheer the good and get pissed at the bad with everyone on the team. If Smith throws a TD we both say “Good throw!” If Smith misses a open receiver for a TD I say “Damn, missed it.” You provide some ridiculous excuse as to why he missed the throw by five yards.
So spot on!!!!
After re-hashing this season for the hundredth time, I came to the following revelation–Alex Smith plays much better when the team is behind as compared to tied or ahead. What were his biggest moments? Eagles, Lions, Seahawks (2nd game), Saints, all when the team trailed and needed a score. Both times the Niners trailed the Giants, Smith took them right back for a score. It’s a shame we weren’t behind late in the 4th Quarter.
@Ray
There is something to that, but I think you are oversimplifying it.
The Niners offensive playcalling, regardless of the QB is conservative. Look at JH’t time at Stanford, and it really was not much different. Even with the all-universe Andrew Luck as his QB. When (game situations)/how often did AL throw it up 40+ times a game?
But when AS is behind, he does seem to let it loose a bit more readily, without losing (I think gaining) accuracy/decision making/play-making ability.
Is it all AS? Is it all JH and GR? Is it some weird mixture of the two? But, this is one of those things that fans or media will never really know.
Bay….ok you say you don’t dodge any questions in my post above .. again how about giving your take on the Montana video clip from this CSNBA article. Would really like your ‘objective’ analysis. I’ve posted this a couple times. If you really haven’t seen it beware because it’s straight from Joe’s mouth.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/niners-talk/post/49ers-dare-to-compare-1981-vs-2011?blockID=630676&feedID=5884
Is there a question in there? What am I responding to?
OK if you’re having a problem here with specificity. QUESTION 1 : What’s your explanation for those Alexecuses coming out of Montana’s mouth when you say they’re not relevant? QUESTION 2 : Does that mean Joe is a Smither too? As a guy told Tim on the Maiocco blog: it’s sad when you let your hatred for Smith define you as a person. LOL
It means Joe is sensitive to Alex’s rough road. It also means that he thinks with this staff there will be improvement. If you are looking for a hardcore assessment from Joe you are not going to get it. Joe would never say anything except positive things about anyone to the press. One on one different story.
I guess you chose to ingnore Joe’s emotion in his responses. It didn’t sound to me like he was just giving lip service with PC responses. He sure didn’t have to say as Alex has more success he’ll take more chances down field. Sounds more like he doesn’t think the same way you do. Surprise, surprise! LOL
What?
bay says he does not dodge questions? Really?
Guess he forgot all those times I kept asking him to list all those teams in NFL history who got rid of their QB who lead them to the playoffs, and made the playoffs the following year. The reason being if he is really a Niner fan, he should be happy the Niners make the playoffs (AS being the QB or not). And if he knows about football, he knows that teams who get rid of their starting QB who lead them to the playoffs then leaves, that following season, that team does not make the playoffs. Want proof? Just this year, Seattle (won the division last year) lost MH, and failed to reach the playoffs this year.
He could not handle the option of AS leading the team to the playoffs, so he did what he always does and ignores the question and insults the one asking, hoping they go away. Didn’t work though. And bay is in quite a pickle now. AS lead the team. And he is going to start next year. How does he save face in this dilemna? He could just apologize profusely, but I won’t bet on it.
How many times did I have to ask?
@niner61
I actually thought it was a different video. But, the Almighty One himself seems like a believer in AS. he didn’t have to say any of the stuff he said just to keep it nice. JM is not known as a BS artist, and anything he says regarding football, and QB, I go with 100%.
Niner61 if your waiting for a reasoned response from Mr. Pessimistic, don’t hold your breath!
bay dodges questions when he finds out the answers don’t fit his pre-conceived notions. If he can lie his way around the answer to the question, he will. But if he can’t…no reply. Or he’ll just act like a school-yard bully and insult you to feel better about himself. Either, or both.
DS you little parasite. When have I ever dodged a question?
BTW you must miss me. Thought you ignored my posts.
Adam, you have given a ‘keen’ perspective on this ongoing topic. Let the Org give Alex the weapons he needs next year and than we can evaluate.
If it takes ‘great playmakers’ to enhance Alex’ progress i’m fine with that because it will become a win, win situation for both sides of the Alex aisle.
@big P first of all no one has told you that Alex isn’t something he isn’t. Your type tells me he is inaccurate, can’t see the field, can’t throw deep and can’t win the big one, and here is the kicker; HE NEVER WILL!
That’s my beef, the fact you guys say he can’t do it when he already has and has every opportunity to improve beyond this year. People want to label him as that’s as good as it gets with Alex, well that’s bull! Dude won 14 games, limited his turnovers. With an upgrade in personnel and an offseason with the same coaches, how does he not get better? Why do you guys label him period?
@prime
Nicely said.
The only label I care about with AS is the one he wears on Sunday that says “San Francisco 49′ers”.
And yes. BigP does say Nice play AS. But the rest of the week, he only focuses on the negatives. Never says anything good at all about AS. He does not tell 23J and his gang that AS made some great throws and debates with them anywhere near as often as he engages one of us about how we are wrong. All week long, he just attacks those who support AS, and backs those who don’t. If he wants us to change our mind about him being a hater, that is a good start. And stop calling us names.
I hope he chooses not to have kids. He would destroy their self-confidence.
Prime,
Again, that is not correct. You just try to lump me in with other people that feel differently about him. There is no hate. He is not as bad as some people make him out to be and he is not as good as you make him out to be. He showed improvement this season, but mostly with his reduction in turnovers. You combine that approach with an elite defense and you have success. Hopefully he can take another step next season with more time in the offense and some more talent around him. That is my expectation, sounds reasonable.
DS,
Luckily I have two beautiful children and a beautiful wife. Baby girl just turned 1 year old last week and my boy turned 5 in November. I hope that you find a husband one day and have beautiful children of your own, it is an amazing experience. I can tell you don’t have children because if you did you wouldn’t reference someone else’s on a sports blog.
I hope you enjoy parenthood BigP.
If your kids get 4th in the spelling bee, after finishing near the bottom every other year, I hope you celebrate your childs good work and progress and not dwell/get down on her for not winning.
My son is a five year old child. My expectation for him is to keep learning and progressing in school. It’s very positive, and he is a very smart young man. Alex Smith is a grown man that gets paid millions of dollars with the expectation that he is to perform at a high level in his profession. I don’t see the similarities.
AS is a student.
One who has had crappy teachers his whole NFL life.
If your child had crappy teachers for 6 years straight, how smart would he appear to be? Mind you, those close to him (you) would know the truth, but eveybody outside looking at your son would think he is slow/stupid/bad/etc. Sound at all like what AS’s teammates have said about him all this time, compared to the outsiders (you)?
Similarities are staring you right in the face with this one. If you don’t get it,it is hopeless.
“Similarities are staring you right in the face with this one. If you don’t get it,it is hopeless.”
Again, if you had children you wouldn’t make that analogy. You would realize how ridiculous it is. Your comparing a child learning his ABC’s to a professional athlete that is paid millions to play football. As far as teammate support goes, of course they are going to support him. Do you ever hear anybody rip their QB? Did any teammates rip Kyle Williams after his fumbles? No. These are the same teammates that believed in Troy Smith last year.
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2010/11/inside-the-49ers/troy_smith_and_his_merry_band_of_believers/
I am comparing one student/teacher to another student/teacher.
AS is learning the ABC’s of JH offense. You clearly were never a football player if you don’t know that all players learn from their coach. Just like a 5 year old learns ABC’s from their teacher. Teachers and caching matter. You will find out one day soon that both statements are true.
And I pray you don’t work as a profiler. You are not that good at guessing.
Sadly it is hopeless.
Almost as hopeless as a woman trying to portray herself as a man.
Now Bayarea fanatic knows not only when professional athletes reach their ceiling but what Joe Montana thinks and says in private settings.
How true is this statement “bay dodges questions when he finds out the answers don’t fit his pre-conceived notions. If he can lie his way around the answer to the question, he will. But if he can’t…no reply. Or he’ll just act like a school-yard bully and insult you to feel better about himself.
If there was anything more accurate in this statement it would be a law!
@Prime
Food for thought:
How often did (does even now) JM compliment SY?
So, JM does not default to saying nice things about any QB or player. He says what he feels/sees/observes. Anybody has the right to disagree with him. Just know that you are disagreeing with Zeus, and don’t expect to be on my Christmas list.
We all know that SY is great. Does that make JM a “social moron” if he does not say good things about SY? Does JM lose any respect? For me, no.
This is now become a debate of my junk is bigger than your junk.
All offseason long the haters ( if someone comes up with a better name I’ll use it) they said they would judge Alex on the “body of work”. I said wins and a berth in the playoffs would be the determining factor if Alex was the future of the franchise, they agreed.
Now the same haters are saying that 13 wins, a playoff win, and a muffed fumble away from the superbowl still isnt good enough.
This debate will never end until we win the superbowl or until everyone sees my junk!
@FDM
1. The debate is over. “Haters hate”. I could write an essay on it, but it does not extend beyond “haters hate”.
2. Interesting that you refer to “my junk”. Nickrow has a fascination with mine.
@FDM I’m fine with the “hater” label. As long as you’re okay being a Smither.
:-D
@msclemons67 I personally would not consider you a hater cause you have been fairly objective but if thats where your headed with this then by all means, have at it tiger.
Next year when we have retooled our offense and Alex is winning once again, you will be here saying you were wrong about Alex like all the other doubters.
BTW, Im okay with Smither, Crabtreer, Gorer, Harbaugher, Morganer, Williser etc. I supoort anyone no mater what, as long as they are wearing red and gold, its called being a fan, not a pessimistic jerkoff critic!
I wonder if the Press Democrat thinks that the same seven or eight people yelling at each other does anything for their bottom line? I suppose it depends on how many voyeurs flock to this blog every day.
By the way, Joe (What Joe are we talking about?) did have some very negative things to say about “some” of the criticism of Alex Smith. The human mind is an amazing filter.
To my opinion all this hater label is just an expression of frustration for some of the bloggers that feel Alex has been wrong fully blamed for our team’s failure to succeed!
I have to agree that Alex Smith has all the attributes to become an elite QB and he has demonstrated what he can do within a right supporting cast and coaching. Alex improved in 2011 and he has the opportunity to continue to improve under Jim H in the future. Now I also agree that Alex did not have a great game against the Giants for whatever reason and we can not only blame the WRs or the coaching. At some point in his career, ideally next year Alex has to take over the game just like the Saints game and consistently lead the team to the victory. The only reason I expect Alex to take over the game is because he has the ability to do so. Alex Smith is our future QB unless Coach Jim H decides otherwise.
I am still depressed about this huge opportunity to play in the super bowl and I feel defeated. Despite the turnovers and the offenses lack of productivity we were just a play or two away from playing in the super bowl. I truly believe our team could have defeated the New England Patriots and their elite QB (Brady)! GO Alex and the NINERS
+1
Having been through these close championship losses several times before, they are the toughest ones to get over, probably even more so than a SB loss. So close but not quite, still it was a great season from a team that wasn’t supposed to do much at all.
Like my old friend Ronnie Reagan said, “Trust but verify”. I trust Alex and this coaching staff, but I need a 6th World Championship for verification. If it does not happen next year then it will be an epic failure IMHO.
That statement is only fair if you include everybody else in the Niner organization in the same boat. PW, JS, JH, GR, NB, TB (GM), EVERYBODY.
See. Being fair and unbiased is easier said than done.
EPIC FAILURE!!!!!!
Amazing.
The bars been set and I was spoiled growing up with the 49ers previous dynasty and I want another. Do what it takes and get it done next year!
So do 32 billionaires. How many get what they want?
You only get what you take dude. Nobodys gonna give. Take it next year.
Some of you people take this place so seriously, do you guy’s actually dream about 23 Jordan, it is rather silly, and he makes the site more interesting to me,he is such a scary bad man and a hater, oh my oh my, let’s just be a bunch of Jim Rome clones and say after me. I love AS I love AS I love AS, Also you should have a maxium blog on here 20 times a day and then perhaps a 24 hour lock down cooling period. hahah Don’t worry we won’t miss you.
Yet after the Saints game you had nothing bad to say about AS 23jordan. I also recall you saying the team was a QB away from a playoff win. That’s strike two against you.
A full offseason with the same playbook plus a #1 receiver is all that is needed.
And also for Crabtree to grow up. I think drafting a WR in the first round along with picking one up in free agency should do it.
Interesting how those who are so keen on having competition at QB, take offense when people suggest more competition for #1 WR.
This from the person who thinks Alex Smith compares to Joe Montana.
@msc
If you weren’t comparing AS to JM, you would be stoked right now. If you deny you don’t compare all QB’s to JM, you’re lying.
All WR’s are compared to JR.
Every player of every position is compared to the best player in that teams history for that position. So, please don’t BS me. I know one when I see one.
Cute way to twist words.
“Compares” in my context means “equivalent” but you decided to play semantics and use an alternate definition. Typical of your drivel.
@msc
Look in a dictionary once in awhile. Words have mutiple meanings. The word “cool” for ex. One definition is completely different from another. It is up to you, the reader to have the smarts to figure it out.
So when you compare products with one another, you really mean the products are equal then? A $50 amp is equivalent to a $500 amp? Or do you compare the features of each?
Really low of you to say compare does not mean compare.
I just love the idea that both the offense and defense didn’t use the full playbook. What will this team look like next year with it fully utilized? Three words: SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS!
@big P, know that if your kid finishes 4th, that the following year if you surround them with tools to help them improve,their ceiling of their potential increases exponentially.
Very true prime!
If BigP has a problem with this post of yours, we’ll know he is just trying to pick fights.
Some more suggestiins for BigP. He should surround his childen with books, and heavily encourage them to read. And for some Republican Scare Tactics, if he does not, they will end up like me. lol
What AS really needs next year is to be comfortable. He needs a lock down qb, oriented OL. Before the start of the season, I wrote on this blog, that it would be interesting to see what coach JH, would do with an OL built for Frank Gore, smash mouth, and not for an inacurrate qb, AS.
In the second half of the Cincinnate game, Snyder was in at RTG, and that helped RT Davis, Alex went on and had a good game. The o line jelled and AS did well from that game.
My point in all this, Alex needs time to go through his reads. Alex is very smart, his Wonderlick scores were terrific. One would have think that learning the playbook was easy. So why does he need time to learn coaches system?
Alex needs to be comfortable so as to have time to analyze the situation infront of him. I don’t have to go into all of his the issues, but they are apparent. I think AS needs a game plan without too many options. The reads would be easier, and quicker to make.
The confounding item about AS is, when he absolutely has to make a play, he does. Witness the last 3 minutes of the New Orleans game. Alex was sensational.
For what its worth…..
g
This isn’t the right place but it seems to be the active thread at the moment.
This fan video on youtube is really, really good. Worth a peek.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpwuzW7KE2c&feature=colike
Sweet, but it should’ve been sweeter.
Thank you MSClemons, this clip put a smile on my face. GO NINERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Lets wait till next season guys but be prepared that we cant surprise other teams like this year and with Smith as QB i still have major concerns its pretty clear that he cant take us to the promised land cuz his arsenal isnt big enough.
If alex is the starter the obviously coach JH has faith in alex and thinks he can coach em up. If he did this to him with a short off season idk I think he can do more with everything coming up. Josh morgan gone hurt us him and alex seemed to really be on and I think 3rd downs would of been better cause that was his fav target but we do need atleast one good WR to add to MC. JM . I think we can do something special more plays and hopefully we see smith air it out some if he can’t its time to move on and hopefully we have someone who can
This short off season worked to our advantage it aint gonna happen 2 times Edge.
The safe throw approach with Alex is a ba
This short off season worked to our advantage it aint gonna happen 2 times Edge.
The safe throw approach with Alex is a bad thing IMO cuz when we open it up he cant deliver thats something you are born with.
Not true. Read JM’s book, “Art and Magic of Quarterbacking”. He mentions that he didn’t feel comfortable throwing long and didn’t really do it well until JR arrived on the seen in 1985. That is after 6 years of working with BW and the WCO.
JH and AS had a short offseason to work together. Now they can work on the nuances and intricacies of their offense. AS improved quite a bit in a very short time. Let’s see what he does with a full offseason of OTA’s, etc. If AS doesn’t continue to get better, JH will make the necessary moves. He’s proven he’s a bright guy and top HC.
*scene*
Anybody can help me out here?
This offseason it seems we might cut ties with some not sucessfull early picks: Chilo Rachal (2nd), Reggie Smith (3rd) and Shantwae Spencer (2nd).
Any chance we might get one or more compensatory picks for them?
you get compensatory picks when your players are restricted free agents.
We are probably the only super bowl contender next year and have a QB that no other team would want as a starter, we have a great defense and special teams, minus knuckle head KW and I hope it does not go to waste for the next 3 years while we wait for AS to be a solid B QB.
You may say
I’m a hater, but I’m not the only one
I hope some day we have a QB
And we win the Super bowl before we all get old and gray
AFC and NFC Championship Game Passer Ratings
Brady 57.5
Manning 82.3
Flacco 95.4
Smith 97.6
I know some of you have a man crush on AS, but both Eli and Brady have shown pretty much instant credibilty then AS. Right now I put AS as a one hit wonder, and I hope he proves me wrong next year, and he might but even though he has lousy receiver’s, SY say’ he has to make play’s and he did that against the Saints and he was pretty much invisible in the 4th quarter of the biggest game in his lifetime, I know GR is no BW, but the man needed to make plays in the 4th quarter and he went 4 and out in a row. AS reminds me of a soldier, when given great order’s ( great offensive plays ) he will shine but everytime it was third down, it was like we were building Rome, I wish GR got the Penn State job. 1 out of 13 on third downs is pretty much horrific.
Neal, I wouldn’t say one hit wonder. I’d say he’s comprehending JH’s offense after a shortened season and has improved but needs to show consistency across the board. He also has to keep growing in his knowledge and game day play. This man crush stuff is old and stale – doesn’t fit.
Neal what you fail to realize is starting over with another QB not only affects the QB position it affects the whole offense. Doesn’t always work. JC across the bay wasn’t spectacular but he was efficient. If he hadn’t gotten hurt, the Rads probably make the playoffs. CP came on board for an expensive price tag and it was automatic success. See the difference? AS is only 27 and hasn’t hit his ceiling. How do we know? His play hasn’t leveled off it has gotten better. SY said the beginning of a QB maturing is not making costly turnovers. Now JH and staff can build upon their success this year.
@Hoffer and dr,
Dr, are you saying you would rather have a couple of bogus QB ratingings and have Flaco and Smith over Eli and Brady, kind of silly, Brady and Eli have won Super Bowl’s and has Brady or Eli ever gone 1 -13 on third downs, I think not. Hoffer, yea we have to give AS another attempt because he has the worse receivers in NFL history. If we do get to the Super bowl, it will be because of our defense and hopefully Smith won’t have future tunnel vision.
@Neal
At some point, those QB’s (Eli, Brady) had not won a Super Bowl. So by your logic, those teams (Giants, Pats) should not want to have had those QB’s, but one who had won a Super Bowl instead at that time.
How does that ever ensure that new QB’s take over the mantle? You need to let new guys pave their way. Your argument is circular and won’t get anywhere.
@ Neal
Imagine…. :-)
Eli is going to the hall of fame
Alex is not…
we need a SUPERBOWL QUARTERBACK, GO NINERS
3rd king I’ll call Jed ASAP and have them pick up one of those Superbowl QB’s. In pretty sure teams like NO, NE, GB are just waiting to offload their QB.
It’s ignorant comments like that from fans that make me laugh. You have to develop elite QB’s in a system that accentuates their talents. Just like GB did with Rodgers. Then you surround that QB with playmakers, just like the Giants did with Cruz, Nicks, ad Manningham. Then you keep thatvsam system in place and build continuity just like NO did with Brees, Meachem, Colston and Moore.
Harbaugh has been here one year and already he has made Alex a winning QB. What’s going to happen with a full offseason of coaching and getting some bonafide playmakers. Yeah, everyone wants a quick fix and instant success and trigger happy to label. Grow up!
+1 that’s ideal. But If Manning were to become available, I can’t help but wonder. Oh, it’s nothing against Smith. It’s just a hall of famer, that’s all…
Now your paying 15-20 million for Manning, your cap hit is enormous, he’s coming off 3 surgeries in the last 19 months, and he’s 36 yeras old? As much as Manning could win us a superbowl and there is never a guarantee of that, its a bad decision because now you cant sign all those top players on defense, you cant spend too much in free agency, and at that age and the history of the injury (neck), he could be a risky proposition.
PM only has 1 SB win. He played poorly in that game as well. He knows nothing of the WCO, and loses his cool often.
What’s to say he doesn’t come in with a discount to win? maybe he takes less. That’s the only way I would consider it. Like I said before, the guy has upwards of 300 million in the bank. It’s not all about money.
What ever system he plays in he’s going to ahve to learn from scratch. But you’re discounting that he was also a Number one pick with natural football abilites. Imagine JH scheming and Peyton playing with people’s minds at the line of scrimmage with all of his girations!!! lol
of course he has to be healthy. With all the second chances that AS had from our defense, imagine what Peyton would do with those!!! we’d average 30+ pts a game!!
DS,
he had his whole career against the likes of Brady, the ravens, jets and steelers…..not many would win often going against that!
He is one of the best QB’s to ever play the game, period. If he were healthy, teams would be lining up to sign him. The dude had three surgeries on his neck in 18 months and is waiting for nerves to regenerate. He is probably done. That being said, IF he were healthy he would be an instant upgrade over over 30 QB’s in the league. He is a Super Bowl Champion, HOF’er and would be successfull in any offense. Just look at what happened to Indy without him.
And if he came here, he goes against DB and AR. Fact is, in the playoffs you go against top teams. And PM does not win often playing against them. Look at his playoff record. He is no JM. And AS won his first playoff game. PM lost his first 3. And he had homefield in his first game. If you want a QB who gets you past the title game and into the SB and play well and win, PM is not going to do it now. He didn’t do it before, and he won’t now with a broken neck, and a new offense.
He is a Super Bowl Champion and Hall of Famer. He is also a four time NFL MVP. This is your typical “rip a HOF’er to pump up Alex” nonsense. Stop comparing people to JM, he played without a salary cap and benefitted from it greatly.
“If you want a QB who gets you past the title game and into the SB and play well and win, PM is not going to do it now. He didn’t do it before, and he won’t now with a broken neck, and a new offense.”
Sounds like SMith. Didn’t Manning orchestrate a huge comeback against New England in the AFC title game to get to the Super Bowl? I’m pretty sure he won the Super Bowl MVP award after winning the game as well. Zero objectivity.
There is Big, there to support all QB’s not named AS.
Please state where I lied. Everything I stated is fact. Just not the dribble you want to hear. You have your view. I have mine.
It is my fault BigP. For trying to converse with one who does not think coaching matters.
Victim mode. It went from you demeaning Manning to I don’t think coaching matters, which I didn’t say. Everybody know that coaching makes a difference, it’s not a revelation. It has nothing to do with supporting Smith, it’s about you not giving credit to great players.
“Please state where I lied. Everything I stated is fact. Just not the dribble you want to hear. You have your view. I have mine.”
Really?
“If you want a QB who gets you past the title game and into the SB and play well and win, PM is not going to do it now. He didn’t do it before, and he won’t now with a broken neck, and a new offense.”
Those are your facts? Lol. You might want to measure twice and cut once in the future.
Like I said. My fault.
Right on Prime! Couldn’t have said it better myself. I can’t wait to watch this thing grow.
All I want is a 6th World Championship, and then a 7th. Is that too much to ask? Coach Harbaugh has the answer.
Damn, Aldon Smith was arrested for DUI in Miami last night. Not very smart.
not good!! I hope he learns from this!!
Apparently he is still in jail, you would think he would be able to pay $1000 in bond. Rookie mistake.
Young kids…damn don’t they know what a taxi looks like? :(
Yeah, not very smart.
Not good.
Unfortunately most players aren’t choir boys – it happens.
While Alex did show considerable improvement this season I believe too much of the teams success is wrongly being attributed to him.
The ‘fair and balanced’ Faithful should step-up and give our Defense their due. Our D gave up 21.6 point in 2010, and only gave up 14.3 points this season. Our D had 4 top ten players in defensive catagories this season.
N.Bowman – 7th in tackles
Aldon Smith – 5th in sacks
Dashon & Rodgers tied for 4th in Ints.
But Alex’ numbers were not substantually better over than 2010.
2010:
10 starts
3-7 record (this is the ‘key’ IMO)
342 attempts
204 comp.
59.6 completion rating
2370 total yrds
14 TD
10 Int’
215.5 yards per game
82.1 QB rating
2011:
16 starts
13-3 record (the most substantial difference)
445 attempts
273 comp.
61.3 completion rating
3144 total yrds
17 TD’
5 Int’
196.5 yrds per game
90.7 QB rating
The overall win vs. loss record is not debatable. TD to Int ratio is much better as well. But the other catagories don’t offer a dramatic difference.
Now go and compare our 2011 Defense vs. their 2010 numbers and there is a dramatic difference.
Our 2011 ST teams numbers are ‘vastly’ better than the 2010 numbers.
Yes, Alex should receive his accolades, but as true fans we need to lose the ‘tunnel vision’ and give credit to other phases of our TEAM that have propelled this 2011 season to where it is today.
Go 49ers (TEAM)!!!
AES, the debate isn’t about how well AS carried us all year. The question is if he should be replaced with the “flavor of the month” in the eyes of those that have a personal agenda. The defense and ST were outstanding this year.
The offense had no offseason, learned a (new) complicated system in a short period of time, made it to the championship game playing mistake free football, was efficient enough to help win games, was without a true #1 WR yet was able to produce average results, missed JMorg in the key moments of a game, and lastly were a play away from the SB.
Yep, respectfully, I think you are a bit off track there AES.
I can’t think of a replacement for Smith out there. There aren’t a lot of top 15 QBs looking for work.
I saw enough this year that I’m curious and hopeful to see what happens next year.
MSC, agreed. If the QB play doesn’t continue to improve JH will need to change course. At this point though, the arrow is up.
Hofe, i’ve stated on more than a few occassions that Alex has earned the right to be our starter next season. The ‘agenda’ you have created over the course of this season has no merit because do we really think for a moment that Harbaugh/Baalke and co. are swayed by who favors Alex and who doesn’t?
Of the few then 10% who still doubt Alex, remember that the overall consenses here wants Alex for the next few years if not longer. Yet, the only phantom agenda is created by the Alex supporters.
I’ve also, said that we go out and find the playmakers for Alex before making more assessments regarding his abilities.
AES, that is what is ‘classic” about you. You claim to be balanced but you only debate with me. Why not debate with Jordo and Bay? Why? Because you agree with their agenda of the revolving door QB. Anybody but AS. How one sided you are but claim to be balanced. I respect your opinions but not your approach.
Interesting point hof.
Wow, a little sensitive today huh Hofe?
You coined the ‘agenda’ comment to support your Alex overexuberence and joined in with those who labeled the less-than- Alex supporters as ‘haters.’
Now you claim that I am part of the ‘QB revolving door’ crowd. I don’t know how much more clear I could be in stating that Alex has earned the right to be back next year. But once again you fall into your own ‘agenda’ trap by accusing someone of something they are not. If that’s your idea of fair and balanced I guess you can have at it. Also, Bay and 23J didn’t respond to my ‘take,’ you did. So, i’m not sure why you want me to debate with them?
Stop trying to label people for your benefit. Stick to your ‘stats’ Hofe, that is your strength on this board. Oh, and take the time to read my original posts again. If you can find where I assembled myself with the ‘QB revolving door’ crowd you have certainly my apology.
AES, I’ve used the word “agenda” to characterize some here that you mentioned but never hater. I prefer to use blamer. Now regarding your comment, you’ve responded to me the last few months saying I was too biased toward AS. I’ve never seen you respond to the other side stating they were too extreme. See the difference? Probably not!
Well Hofe, on this matter I must give you some ‘props.’ You at least respond to the ‘blamers’ with a measure respect by producing ‘stats’ to back your arguments. You have rarely lowered yourself to the name calling that many here have succomed to.
And yes, there have been many occassions in which your overexuberence of Alex has been unbalanced.
You along with others here seem to have caught a case ofTebowitis. That is to say that while the Broncos were winning with Tebow as the QB, many (Broncos fans and media) were washed away with the Tebow mania while failing to give credit to their Defense and FG kicker who helped win many of those games.
When many on this blog posted how the defense and special teams were playing a huge contributing factor in our wins we were given the ‘hate’ Alex moniker.
According to the majority on this blog all or most of the credit should be given to Alex. That became very appearent when Grant would give Alex an B or A- grade. Now, once again I don’t expouse the ‘get rid of Alex’ sentiment, but if you feel better saying that I do, well that should be all the proof you need that I can’t control what you, Bay, or 23J say.
With a full offseason it will be a advantage for Kaepernick IMO cuz he has much more talent than Smith and he’s been fine tuned by Harbaugh and his staff, believe all the crap you guys with Smith that you want but he reached his limit this is what we get.
Audio began playing when I opened up this web page, so frustrating!