The NFL draft combine starts today, and as soon as something happens I’ll break it down for you.
Stanford tight end Coby Fleener will not run this week because he has a high ankle sprain, so we won’t know how fast he is until he runs at Stanford’s Pro Day on March 22. If he runs a 4.5 40-yard dash, he would be a good pick for the Niners with the 30th overall pick.
But that’s an issue for next month. For now, as we wait for combine action, let’s discuss Mike Wallace.
The 25-year old receiver is a restricted free agent of the Steelers, and they don’t have the cap space to resign him or franchise tag him. They’re probably going to lose him in free agency, but whoever signs Wallace will most likely have to give their first round draft pick to the Steelers. That’s how restricted free agency works.
Should the Niners try to sign Wallace, knowing he’ll demand a lot of money and cost the team a first round pick? I say, yes, and here’s why.
The Niners need a playmaker at wide receiver who is also a deep threat. That’s Wallace. He’s a Pro-Bowler. He’s the fastest player in the league according to Jim Harbaugh. He caught 24 TD passes in his first three seasons despite standing just six-feet tall. He averages 18.7 yards per reception. He’s better than any receiver the Niners could draft at the 30th overall pick.
The only way the Niners would really need that first round pick is if they couldn’t sign OLB Ahmad Brooks, because they don’t have a replacement for him on the roster.
If they do resign Brooks, they should also sign Wallace, as in, make him the No. 1 priority. For example, it would be smarter to sign Wallace to a big, long-term contract than Carlos Rogers, who’s 31-years-old and plays cornerback, a position at which the Niners feel strong.
Keeping Brooks and getting Wallace and losing Rogers and a first round pick is a great trade for the Niners.
Here’s the question: Could Alex Smith, Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman use Wallace effectively? I say, yes, again. They like to call a few deep-shot plays every game. I’m sure they wish they could draw those plays up for Mike Wallace instead of Delanie Walker.
When Smith throws those deep passes, often he looks as if he’s throwing the ball as far as he can. He doesn’t want to throw an interception, so he out-throws the coverage and counts on the receiver to catch up. Kyle Williams couldn’t catch up to Smith’s bomb in the NFC championship game, but it’s pretty hard to overthrow Wallace, who’s about as fast as DeSean Jackson.
Wallace and the Niners are a match that makes sense.
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Totally agree. The guy has speed to burn and would put fear in the opponents secondary. It’s almost like giving a 2nd round pick for the guy. It will depend on his contract demands and if he wants to play here.
Totally disagree, no way you take a receiver from a spread system, supported by a power fast ball throwing and mobile q.b. in Big Ben and expect him to have the same success when you can in no way provide him that type of trigger man. Dontae Stallworth revisited!! Also, if you can not resign Rodgers, I guarantee you go back to being a team that’s great on 1st 2nd, but can’t contain top receivers on 3rd downs. Heck that’s the very thing Rodgers brought you. Receiver is not the top priority for this organization when the offense is conservative by nature. Either resign Morgan or go after Burress. Their big mobile guys that fit the game of Alex Smith to a T.
Yes sir. I agree. And since defense carried this team this year, a top CB is a top priority.
The 49ers have a “fast ball throwing and mobile q.b.” who is anxious to show his skills. Assuming CK was not drafted to be a full time backup.
I agree a %100. Wallace is not a west coast wr. We do need a Burress or V-Jack. We can sign Morgan back to. Sometimes its not the wr fault it goes on Alex to for not reading coverage fast enough. He stuck on VD and DW to much. We need to keep our 1st round pick and draft another OLB like Aldon Smith. We should sign a wr out of free agent and draft a OLB. Thats how i see it, and i could be wrong. !!!NinerNation 4-Life!!!
Dude I totally agree on the Carlos Rodgers issue but you’re crazy if you think we don’t need Mike Wallace. We need a home run threat and right now, we don’t have any big play receivers except for V. Davis.. Ii think Wallace going beside a possession receiver like Crabs would be a lethal combo! We desperately need a big play receiver b/c the fastest guy we have is Ted Ginn and he is unreliable at best.. Good kick returner, but not receiver, and not to mention- he is as fragile as 100 year old China!! All we need is a true no.-1 caliber receiver and we are going to the SuperBowl!! Hell we would have this past season if it wasn’t for Ginn getting hurt against the Saints and being out for the Giant’s game- then Kyle Williams never would have had the chance to fumble that punt!!… and get hit in the knee by that damn ball! He shouldn’t have been within 20 yards of that ball
Totally disagree. Good cornerbacks are MUCH harder to find than wide receivers. I also believe the only way they get Wallace is if they overpay him big-time. I’m a Brooks fan but I would rather have Rogers than Brooks, again because good CBs are hard to find. It’s not like Brooks is a 15-sack guy either. Would I mind having Wallace at a fair price? Of course not. But not at the expense of losing our best CB.
Regardless, I don’t believe the Niners will even make an attempt at Wallace unless they can get him at a fair price. I do like the idea of taking Fleener with our first pick though, should we keep it. Yes we have two really good tight ends but they’re both 6’2″. One of the reasons Graham and Gronkowski were so successful last year is their heighth. Fleener is close to their size and has amazing hands. He’s even faster than they are too. I think Harbaugh would love to have Fleener on their team.
Agree. I’m thinking LGrant could play outside (MM disagreed with me) but he did play OLB in college and did well (tackles and sacks) so who says he can’t be moved back to the outside if ABrooks leaves? LG could be signed for less money and have the oppty to start.
Height!!! Please please please comment, but do it with respect for the language. Thank you.
Navarro Bowman played OLB in college and Grant filled in well for Willis on the inside. Why not have Bowman, Willis, Grant and Smith be the linebackers?
I think Wallace will be too overpriced for the Niners. In today’s NFL the CFO carries as much weight as the staff that evaluate talent. What will be very interesting is if Baalke and Harbaugh pull the trigger on Fleener if he’s there at 30.
db’s should be gotten in free agentices. wr in draft. wr should only be taking in free agentices if you know he fits your offence or you get him cheap cheap. here something to go by. when coach is a offence coach you use free agentices to fill holes on defence and if coach is defencive fa is used to fill offencive needs. as that makes it easy.
I second Big P. , Could be a great move but could really eat into our cap issues.
What about Parys Haralson what up with him. Is he free?
I agree it makes sense, I just don’t see the 49ers shelling out that kind of money.
What kind of money are the Top 10 Receivers getting now?
draft fleener if he is fast enough. stay away from big name fa’s they back fire more often then not and then your salary cap is a mess for years to come. i hope they keep signing “B” level fa’s and drafting well
It depends on his salary demands. They have a SB caliber team, they need a player that can put them over the top. Wallace if very good, very fast and young.
And, eventually, CK7 will take over at QB, and his arm is pretty much limitless, so it would be folly NOT to have the fastest WR in the game by that time.
I don’t really care either way coach.
But the Niner WR’s didn’t hold their own in last years playoffs playing against some pretty weak secondaries. There was no Deion Sanders in NY or NO. VD really saved them. Can’t depend on that happening every time.
The Niners need an outside WR threat. They don’t have one right now. The Niners actually can run the ball fairly well if there are not 8 in the box. A WR threat, along with better play from AD in the RT position will let VD go out for passes more, and a trail of LB’s will follow him.
Would you be happy coach if they got Wallace, or would you be more concerned? Say they average $11 million a year for 5 years for the guy (shot in the dark). Is that worth it? Considering our team was so close last year.
No way we draft a TE in the first round, even at 30. What is the logic there? We need help at G, DT, WR, and CB.
I would like to sign all the FA WRs, but like I said, SF will not have the money. We only have 30 mil to spend this year and we have to think about AS, DG, CR, AB, JM among several ST players. When you do the math, we have just enough to sign all our draft picks with some cushion money for anticipated injuries during the 2012 reg season. It’s not going to happen!
Fleener is not just a TE , he is a tall, fast, sure handed receiver-who would be used in various configurations in our still developing O to set up match up problems for opposing defenses . Given that DW is a FA next year a case can be made the Fleener might be picked if he is the best available player at 30th slot. Given that scenario there are various WR candidates in the mid rounds to bolster our roster.
I believe DW will be willing to resign with SF for 3 mill a year with some guaranteed money. The problem is not with Fleener’s ability. We have plenty of other needs. Why do you want TE 3-4 players deep when you are thin as heck at G, DT, WR, CB? The niners are out of their minds if they go TE at 30. I don’t mind a TE later in the draft but def not at 30.
Not really hungup on Fleener per se just saying one CAN make a case for him.I concur about the other needs most of which I address in the mock I posted in the endless AS topic which included the Fleener pick.
@DaveRichard – Mike Wallace was just on SXM NFL Radio. Talked a lot about the 49ers.
From 30 minutes ago.
I agree, Grant. I don’t think there is anyone else on the market I like more.
@Grant
Do you think the big differences in how Big Ben plays the QB position and how AS plays it will impact Wallace’s effectiveness at getting open?
Big Ben stands in there and takes hit after hit and won’t go down because he is often as large as the defensive players trying to take him down.
AS is a little more fleeter with his feet.
There is a distinct difference in style, and do you think that style difference works well with Ben but won’t work nearly as well with AS? Do you think that Wallace got open a lot because the DB’s think the play is over, or do you mostly credit Wallace for getting open?
I think Wallace will force defenses to 2-team the WR position a lot, and that will really open up VD from the 2-teams and the running game as well.
a well reasoned argument for taking the top of a defense……
but as i mentioned before i think the biggest improvement this offense could garner is to become more efficient, i.e. moving the chains and improve redzone conversions…..this assumes the special teams still wins the field position battles so the length of drives are manageable as they were last year
also agree with the brooks comment….he definitely IMO controlled his assigned areas last year with tackles for losses and some timely sacks….he would be hard to replace and expect to have the same kind of control around the LOS between the DE and the CB
maybe having a fleet footed WR could get open sooner (create separation, whatever) taking some pressure off the OL when the QB has to wait for the play to develop…..
i was thinking the niners could get a steve johnson and one of the two FA OG while keeping goldson, brookes, and maybe even grant, and then the draft could address the CB position to replace carlos, and then a backup for justin smith to mentor…..
also what have you heard about AS contract details…..i have heard rumblings about 6yr and 60mil…….this catches me off guard as far as length but it could an interesting development for the future if the niners wanted to trade away AS after a couple of years and get something significant in return for that investment…assuming AS significantly improves some more…..
to me this would be better cap management and long term cohesiveness
jg
The only way I would consider AS to have improved more is if he leads the Niners to a Super Bowl victory. He got them to an OT loss in the NFC title.
And, if that happens, why would you ever want to trade the guy?
again, AS needs to make this offense his own by means of knowing where all his outlets/weapons are and running an effective hurry up offense……AS was not the major reason the niners where an OT loss away from the SB…..it clearly was the defense that did the heavy lifting with the special teams as the spotter in gaining favorable field positions….but at the end of the day the defense and the special teams had their miscues and that is why the niners didn’t get to the SB ( giving up a 17 yd TD instead of FG on 3 and 15 as well as the first KW miscue) …..the niner offense was pretty dicey but had tebow-like moments, so they had their moments of contribution no doubt…
so no i don’t agree that the only improvement AS needs to accomplish is getting to the SB….that easily could have happened this year, yet AS would not be a very complete QB…..and he and eli would have been sort of even stevens accomplishment wise but the football gods went a different direction because they controlled the bounce of the ball…
And who can predict the future….the niners may have to pay in the neighborhood of 10 mil for AS maybe gradually increasing payout as the years go by (like 8 increasing to 12 depending on incentives) so if they can structure the contract then a couple of years from now find CK is the real deal then even if AS is improved and has gotten a SB added to his resume the niners could pull a trigger on any potential deal for the overall improvement of the team…..
jg
You are talking details. I am talking overall picture.
I have been very consistent with my thoughts on stats and how I view success.
If AS threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TD’s next year, and the Niners don’t even get into the NFC Title game, I would not say that he improved. He may have become a better passer, and more exciting. But, it is the job of the QB to find ways to win games. Not to make the highlight reel. AS flat out said it before the NO game. He does not care if DB throws for more yards than he does. He did. AS is there to win the game. And he did.
AS did an incredible job of finding ways to win games this past season. Sadly, it wasn’t good enough.
Great point by DS, only way he will ever be fully accepted is if they are the super bowl champions right or wrong.
I’d choke if they paid AS $10MM/yr. I believe he’s good (read 10th-best in league or so), but other teams don’t value him at that level, so why would we pay so much? $5MM/yr, plus incentives for starting and winning. If we don’t win, he’s not getting top-QB money, if we do, he does.
As for the G position, I thought Snyder played well. Get a serviceable back-up, Snyder starts. Carl Nicks is too expensive.
Resign Brooks unless his price is too high, keep Ginn and Morgan. Tag Goldson. 3yr deal for Rogers, but don’t overpay since we have decent young guys.
Look at big WRs in draft, and fast young vets in FA (Meacham, St. Johnson). Jared Crick in rd 2 to back up DEs and apprentice under Justin Smith
“I’d choke if they paid AS $10MM/yr.”
It may average $10M over the life of the contract but I don’t see them paying him that money this year or next.
Probably more like $7M, $9.5M, $13.5M, etc.
@jsteez
“$5MM/yr, plus incentives for starting and winning.”
Kerry Collins was paid $4 million last year to start for the Colts.
How long did he last?
AS made $5 million last season.
Was AS only 20% better than Kerry Collins? I assure you, other teams would be interested in AS if they thought he wasn’t going to resign with the Niners. It is a foregone conclusion that he will. Only a matter of when and how much.
Go to the hospital before you read/hear the radio when they resign AS. It would suck to get to heavens gates (assuming you go there lol) and tell everybody there that you died choking after hearing how much money AS made when he resigned.
So Grant,
would you buy a Ferrari so that you could drive it around the block @ 25MPH? That’s the equivalent of bringing Wallace to the Niners. Wallace is not an underneath route guy. He is a one trick pony. And that route that he runs, Alex does see and doesn’t throw accurately.
We need a guy like V Jax. He can get deep, and he also helps solve two other huge issues that Wallace doesn’t solve. Big red zone target, and big bodied possession receiver that can help on third down conversions.
Sorry but I don’t see Wallace as a good fit with Alex.
agree, well except for the AS comments
As a longtime 49ers fan i still don’t believe in Alex Smith. If i were Trent Balke i would trade Alex Smith for a use water cooler.
Hey Bay,
Not sure I agree about Alex being the reason Wallace might not be the best fit here, but I DO agree that it might be a better call to get a BIG receiver, who could help out with 3rd downs, and be a force in the red zone. It’d be nice to have a burner, but I think if you can get one guy who can do several things (3rd downs AND end zone monster), it’d be a better choice.
Agreed! We had Ted Ginn running deep routes that AS never threw the ball to.
You’d rather sign the receiver who’s more expensive and four years older?
I, personally, would not sign either of those guys because I don’t think we can afford them this year. VJax quits on plays and Mike Wallace has one/two routes that he runs. I bet neither of them will settle for less than 8 mil a year, which SF can not afford. If we want speed, we need to go after Meachem.
I don’t see them going after Wallace because of the salary that he is going to command. Reports are that he will get in the range of 10m per year. That combined with the 6+m that Goldson will get if he is franchised will make it extremely difficult to re-sign the core guys they want to bring back, plus we might be in the market for 2 guys depending on what happens with Ginn.
I would like to see them go after Meachum or Colston and then go after a receiver in the middle rounds. Most of the top receivers in the NFL are coming from this part of the draft, and by doing this you can get help from 2 guys for what Wallace would cost you.
@Grant,
I think Wallace will be just as expensive as Jackson and will command a 1st round pick as well. There’s an age difference but Jackson is in his prime and is a bigger WR who can help in more areas imo. I’d rather sign Jackson and keep the pick personally but then again I can’t really see the Niners going all in for a FA WR to begin with.
@rocket
Jackson has attitude issues. I don’t think Wallace has (or at least as much).
Also, Wallace comes from a tough minded team in Pitt. The same kind of attitude JH is building here.
VJ is coming from a team of underachievers. Wallace has played well in big games, and knows what it takes to win a Super Bowl. A guy with that kind of experience is really lacking on this Niners team. Don’t discount that.
DS,
He’s had some off the field issues but has been franchised a few years running by the Chargers and has produced. As I said, I don’t think the Niners will go for either one of them but if I had to choose I’d take Jackson and my first round pick over signing Wallace and giving it up.
I would rather see the 49ers sign an unrestricted FA WR and draft a WR. Wallace will garner a high salary and require the 49ers to give Pittsburgh a 1st round pick. This combination make teh cost to the 49ers of adding him prohibitive.
Age you know, price, you don’t … I could see both of these guys, as well as Bowe (if he were to make it to FA) and perhaps even Colston all demanding pretty similar numbers when all is said and done.
Bay, totally disagree. MW would be the outside WR that is missing since ABryant. AS passes hit him in stride many times during the 2006 season to the tune of 18 yd per catch. But I don’t see the MW signing happening for the reasons I state below.
How many wide open WRs down field did AS over throw this season? I can easily recall 10 situations. The only reason I can see SF signing a deal with MW is if we don’t sign a long term with AS, because we know CK will take the reigns in 2013.
So Hofer,
you want to bet the farm on a skill Alex hasn’t demonstrated with success in 5 years? Remember, we had receivers open lots this year deep. He either didn’t pull the trigger or he didn’t see it or he over threw it.
And bringing in MW still doesn’t help our red zone issues.
I saw bad fit unless they see him working better with CK down the line.
Bay, I agree with Grant. AS was ensuring he didn’t throw the errant INT. When watching the games last year that is what the coaching staff was focusing on was turnovers. Now this year knowing the offense and working on his weaknesses, he can play a little more loose not worrying as much about an INT. I see him throwing for 28+ tds and 4000 yds.
I mentioned below I don’t see them going after MW. Not part of their basic FA plan.
AS has thrown more deep passes this season than in any other season as a professional QB and it’s not because he chose to, but because of the way the plays were designed. If you’ve watched the games from home you can clearly see that AS does not have very good accuracy on long balls. If you go to training camp you immediately notice the lack of velocity, spiral, and accuracy on deep passes. If you go to the game, you see his poor field vision down the field. His lack of throwing down the field is a result of his inability to make consistent accurate passes, which he should have developed by now. The only way he throws for 4000 yards is if we continues to get one-on-one coverage on the outside and if SF is constantly behind and he is forced to throw. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of AS and have been so ever since we drafted him all the way through the days of niner fans chanting “we want Carr, we want Carr”, but I also have a practical assessment of AS and that is that he does not have a good deep ball. A fast WR on the outside will not solve his accuracy problems.
Come on Ninerminer, you are a hater. A HATER!!!!! If Alex is in the system for one more year, and we get him one or two better offensive linemen, and if we get him two pro bowl receivers and it is not windy on most days, then dangit he will throw for a ton of yards. Like 28 TD’s and 4000 yards at least….
I’m not a hater. I have a ton of love for AS. As I mentioned, I never stopped defending the guy even when everyone thought we should start Troy Smith, David Carr, Shaun Hill, Trent Dilfer, etc. I think this year was the first year where he played close to the potential we saw him having when we drafted him. But I’m not going to say that AS can pass for 4000 yards simply without justifying why and how. AS can’t make deep passes and our defense is good enough that he doesn’t have to pass for 4000+ yards to be successful. BTW, don’t set conditions for throwing 4000+ yards. I can throw for 4000+ yards against kids. As a professional QB, he needs to be able to throw in the wind, rain, snow against professonal defenses. Besides, we can’t afford 2 probowl WRs and who are you referring to when you say “better offensive linemans” because those don’t come free either.
“AS can’t make deep passes and our defense is good enough that he doesn’t have to pass for 4000+ yards to be successful. BTW, don’t set conditions for throwing 4000+ yards.”
LOL! AS was only 53.5 yds per game away from 4000 yds. If you include the drops and misses, he easily hits that number. Add the fact that he will work on his game during the offseason, now knowing the intricacies of the JH/GR offense, getting JMorgan and NBynum back, a full year of a healthy DW, plus a FA WR, and (possibly) a WR in the draft, all signs look for better production throwing the ball. Again, with all of the positives, 53.5 yds per game more is very achievable. BTW, there are no absolutes to say *he won’t* hit 4,000. We’ll see who is closest a year from now. I enjoy the debate! Stay tuned…
*NByham*
OMG,
We are going to be great. AS is only 120 yards and 2 extra TD’s per game away from 5000 yards and 49 TD’s. Can’t wait for the season to start.
Really? Let’s start with little goals first huh Hofer. How about just one 300 yard game. Just one. And how about fixing amongst the worst 3rd down conversion stats in the entire league 6 years running. Lets fix those things first before we begin playing what if fantasy games.
@ninerminer81,
Genius you actually believe in 2013 CK will start? Where are the facts that CK has the advantage over A. Smith comes 2013, what do you think in 2013 Alex ability is at that time? Alot Better or hes potential as a 27 year old QB on the rise with good coaching and having good WR that can catch and running backs that can open up the passing attack..
Don’t ever count A. Smith out when the ship is sinking his there to try to revive it..lol
And how about fixing amongst the worst 3rd down conversion stats in the entire league 6 years running.
That’s a pretty specific assertion of fact. Can you support it?
“And how about fixing amongst the worst 3rd down conversion stats in the entire league 6 years running.”
Well…
Add to that one of the worst OL in the league for 6 years running. Adam has pointed this out numerous times.
And one of the worst WR core in the league for 6 years running. Remember how much people loved Jason Hill here? He hasn’t lit the world on fire, nor has any other WR who has left. So, any “it was AS’s fault” doesn’t really fly here.
And poor HC for 6 years running (until this year).
But, nah. Just look at the only thing that makes AS look bad. That is sound and unbiased.
Hey Claude,
if it’s that big of a deal to you, then you find a time when Alex Smith was higher than 20th in 3rd down conversions in the last six year.
I believe that you’ll find him in the bottom five every year. In fact, this year, a year in which he had an All Pro tight end and a near 1000 yard WR, and one of the best coaches in all of football, he was dead last in 3rd down conversions or very close to it.
Now Claude, add something of value. Think on your own for once instead of picking through peoples stuff trying to prove them wrong. Your act really has gotten old partner…..
At least DS doesn’t try to make me look like a liar Claude, she just goes into Alexcuse mode…..
Claude,
here you go pick holes in this. And guess what I was WRONG. The 49ers were last or dead last every year except……. 2008. But the reason they were not last in 2008 is because…. you guessed it. Alex was not the QB. Same team at 2007 and 2009 yet we finished an average of 7 spots higher with Shawn Hill.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2011-02-07
@ gentlemen who did not have a name
CK is plenty better than AS in majority of the categories that make a good qb. He has better arm strength, throws a tight spiral, and has amazing deep accuracy with incredible balance. Believe it or not, CK is a better scrambler than AS as well. The only downside to CK is that he has a longer wind up than AS, but when the ball leaves his fingertips there is no discussion who’s the better QB. Have you watched any CK game films? Have you even gone to training camp to see the former rookie toss the pig skin? What makes you think CK isn’t a better qb than AS?
“What makes you think CK isn’t a better qb than AS?”
Preseason games were not very impressive. And, IS (our DL) looks good throwing the ball around before games too. The announcers on TV always comment on it. But, not once have they ever said that he should be the QB. Practice vs. pre-season vs. regular season vs. playoffs are all very different levels.
And, AS was chosen #1. Had CK been around that year to draft, I still think AS goes ahead of him. How many QB’s went ahead of CK? That fact alone does not determine how good a QB can be (JM was a 3rd round pick), but you can’t tell me that CK is going to be a better QB off of college tapes where everybody who gets drafted into the NFL looks really good.
@ Hoferfan
50 additional yds/game is a lot. It sounds like its not a lot, but with AS completion percentage, that requires 10+ more passes to get those 50 additional yards per game.
Besides, why are you talking about AS getting 4000 yards/game anyways. This is a team sport, if we don’t need to pass why would we let a QB with mediocre accuracy lobe the ball to prove a point. We did that this year and he only got 3000 yards.
@ DS94everXev
4 QB’s went in front of CK, just like how a number of QB’s went ahead of Tom Brady. I don’t judge a QB’s skill set solely by college film, because CK played at Nevada a D-II school so the competition level isn’t like it is in the SEC. Why does it matter where they are drafted anyways? A Rod is 10x better than AS will ever be and 23 teams passed up on A Rod. There are a lot of 1st overall busts and AS was lucky to not be on the top of the list (thanks to harbaugh).
I’m basing all of my assessment based on actually watching training camp in the stands. How many training camp sessions did you go to? BTW, in preseason when CK was throwing the ball, he was throwing to Lance Long, Ronald Johnson, and Kyle Williams. None of these guys were taller than 6 feet. Not to mention the OL had trouble protecting the QB, which isn’t the QB’s fault. The one time CK had an opprtunity to play with starters, he was 3 for 3 and 50+ yards. You will be on the CK bandwagon one day. Just remember that Ninerminer81 told you so.
@Bay:
I appreciate you taking the time to find the link, and thanks for supporting your assertion. It gives you a lot more credibility when you do so.
The numbers are pretty damning. Let’s see what Harbaugh and Smith can do about it in year 2 of the system.
I never said AS would throw for 4,000 yds only that it is attainable with all of the positives on the offense this year. BTW, a very good FA WR, JMorg returning and better play from all of our receivers could add another 850 yds receiving in 2012 which is the difference we are talking about here (total 4,000 yds). Not necessarily an overstatement!
“He has better arm strength, throws a tight spiral, and has amazing deep accuracy with incredible balance. Believe it or not, CK is a better scrambler than AS as well.”
Ninerminer81, sounds like you are a lobbyist for CK. Hmm.
“What makes you think CK isn’t a better qb than AS?”
Ninerminer81, CK isn’t starting and JH has referred to AS as his long term starter. Although everything is subject to change. lol
@ninerminer
I don’t care where players are drafted for the most part. I only brought it up because you seemed to have implied that CK is better than AS was coming out of college. My point had to do with the notion that if that were true, GM’s would have taken CK before AR or AS, and I don’t think they would have done so. That is why I brought up JM being a non-1st round pick.
But this is just silly talk anyway.
And I did not attend any training camps. But, I did read many peoples opinions (reporters, ex-scouts) and you opinion of CK is higher than theirs was.
I don’t know what your OL comment means. The Niner defense was not going game speed in training camp, and some of our best defensive players got to sit out with nagging injuries.
I don’t consider anybody here, or reporters as experts. The only experts I really consider are the coaches. And they aren’t going to tell you how they really feel anyway more often than not.
But all of JH’s actions/words are ones that say “I want AS to be the starting QB here for a long time.”
And I am on nobodies bandwagon. I am one of the few Niner fans who supported JM after that Viking game, and SY when the Niners traded JM away. I never hated/disliked either of them or the team for trading JM away.
And if AS wins 4 Super Bowls over the next decade, and is having injury issues that prevent him from getting onto the field, and the Niners trade him for a 1st round pick which yields a multi pro-bowler and thehelm to CK or whomever, I am fine with that.
@hoferfan67
I don’t know what you mean by lobbying for CK. I am a fan of Kaepernick and believe he will be the franchise QB that AS was not able to become in the 7 years he’s been with SF. Everything from your side is speculation. I have facts.
BTW, Mike Nolan was idiotic to play Alex Smith his first 2 years. Alex Smith was horrible his first two years (or 6 years) despite being the #1 overall pick. That is why CK is not a starter. He’s learning the playbook and when he is the starter, I will be waiting for Grant to post an article so I can come tell you so. Just don’t change your name.
@ DS94everXev
Peace. I just think that as die-hard fans we should take it a step further and learn about our personnel before we have an opinion on their qualifications/skill sets. Besides, I want an intelligent sounding fan base to start here in SF as oppose to those Cards fans who payed a ransom for a guy to compete with a 6th rounder for the starting job.
“I am a fan of Kaepernick and believe he will be the franchise QB that AS was not able to become in the 7 years he’s been with SF.”
Ninerminer81, I’m for whoever JH wants to start. He knows more about football and QB play than anyone here. If AS continues to progress like I believe he will under JH, CK may never see the starting role. My feeling is that JH can make AS the most successful QB he’s ever mentored and his biggest triumph as a HC. Add in all of the history and this will be a movie in 15 years. All arrows up either way…
@Ninerminer81
I’m all for peace. War just costs too much money anyway. lol
And, I am an educated fan. Take note though that I follow this quote from Jim Mora Sr.
“You think you know. But you don’t. And you never will.”
So, I don’t think I know more or better than JH or TB. And if they choose to go with a guy I was not all in with, I’m not going to sit here and doubt them like you will find many do here routinely.
Just so that you know, I thought Kolb was a loser. He clearly had better talent than AS has ever had at his exposure in Philly, and he didn’t do anything to wow me at all. Many so called “expert fans” here wanted to get Kolb. I was not blogging at the time, but I can assure you, I didn’t want any piece of that guy. I would be hesitant to bring him in as a backup or a challenger with CK right now for the 2nd string, much less take over as the starter.
And, Kolb proved himself true. Winning only 2 games last year. One against the worst team of last year. JH proved he knew something by getting AS back in here, and not picking up any of the other available QB’s on the market who all blew chunks next to AS.
That has got to be my favourite quote of all time. It’s bulls-eye true.
@Angus
Which quote?
The Jim Mora one in my last post? If so, be careful. BigP will come and make fun of you, the guy who made it and anybody who thinks it.
Hater, Wallace plays special teams as well so he fills numerous needs, can go deep, across the middle, and can return punts and kickoffs, do your homework before popping off!
You dont see anyone, any offensive system, WR or piece of turf a good fit for Alex so what the hell else is new.
FDM,
gotta work on that anger thing ok. This could be you….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTCDnsbqR8o
@ FDM
How the heck are you going to pay for MW? End of discussion! You do some HW!!
Bay gotta work on being the most annoying guy on this blog. This is you. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_1MJ381nN0
He won’t be playing special teams if he gets signed to a big contract, so that is irrelevant.
Why wouldn’t he play special teams, he’s great at it. If the Niners pay him, they will want to get full value for him at everything he does well. You dont think D. Jackson will ever return punts if he gets paid? Thats one of the reasons why he will get paid. Look at Hester in CHI, he got paid and still returns KO’s and punts, Big P, stop making stuff up!
@Ninerminer81, the Niners will be 20-30 million possibly under the cap, if they want to spend it in free agency they can. I think they should draft 2 young WR’s and use that money to sign their own free agents.
@FDM
You must not be a regular on these postings. Let me educate you on how fast those 30 million (actually 33 million) will get used up. Last year we were 12 mill under the cap. This year we have 19 unsigned and 33 mill under the cap.
If we resign AS, JM, AB, DG, and key ST alone we will not even have money to resign CR. Of course we can sign any FA we want, but who of the one I have listed are you going to NOT resign. This is fantasy football with children you have here. You can’t have everything.
@Ninerminer81
FDM has been around here forever.
And $40 million is still an awful lot of dough to play around with before you start re-negotiating contracts to get/keep players here.
And JM (Joshua Morgan I assume?) will not cost a lot of money. Not more than $2 million if that.
The $40 million is coming from those players who the Niners are not expected to keep around who are currently counting against the cap such as Spencer and Moran Norris. That extra $7 million is more than half of what it will take to sign AS (if not all of it).
@ DS94everXev
The 33 mil already includes all the people that aren’t on the contract like Moran Norris, Alex Smith, Dashon Goldson, etc. I don’t know where you get 40 million from.
BTW, JM would have outplayed MC this past year had it not been for injuries and MC made 5.7M, so I can easily see JM asking for 3-4M a year, which he deserves.
Do me a favor and let me know who of the following you would resign (how much) and not resign:
Alex Smith
Josh Morgan
Dashon Goldson
Ahmad Brooks
Carlos Rogers
Adam Snyder
Chilo Rachal
Blake Castonzo
Ted Ginn Jr
CJ Spillman
Larry Grant
Tavares Gooden
Madieu Williams
Brett Swaim
Tramaine Brock
Will Takuafu
Reggie Smith
FDM,
Nobody is making stuff up. You don’t pay a guy top $ as a receiver to have him return punts. Hester is return guy that receives, not the other way around. Don’t believe me? Look up his receiving stats, his best year receiving was his worst year returning. As they cut back on him being a receiver, his return numbers went back up. The team values him as a returner. Jackson has returned less punts and kickoffs every year he has been in the league because he has become such an important part of Philly’s offense. Four years in the league and his returns have been 50 in 2008, 29 in 2009, 20 in 2010 and 17 last year. Do your homework before you run your mouth.
@ninerminer81
Look at this link
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/shawntae-spencer/
It includes Shawntae Spencer’s contract.
He is signed for this year under contract. So, the money we would save on the salary cap when he is released is $4.2 million.
That $4.2 million is not part of the $33 million you are referring to.
There were some other players as well. I forgot exactly who. But, at the end, the total amount comes to $40 million.
I don’t see JM asking, or getting anywhere near $3.2 million. He earned $581,000 last season, and has not been stellar. I agree that he just might have ended up being a better target for AS than MC was, but there is no way that he is getting MC’s type money. So, a slight (still like 50%) raise up to $750,00 is what I would expect with a lot of it being incentive based.
I can see the Niners possibly dumping MC to try and afford to get a Wallace though. MC’s cap hit is going to be $5.359 million (BigP) according to the website with a base salary of $3.5 million .
There is no way that MC is anywhere near 7-10x better a WR than JM is. So, for JM is a lot better player for the dollar than MC will likely be in 2012.
So, if the Niners did drop MC, they would save themselves a few million there as well, which would be better served to bring in Wallace and help keep our own FA’s who produced great last year.
In fact, that link will give you the salary breakdown of every player of every team and contract length.
So, pretty handy.
DS,
I like that you are getting better with your capanomics, lol-good stuff. The 2012 cap hit you stated for MC is correct-$5.359 million. The hit to the salary cap if they released him this year would be over 4 million due to the proration of his signing bonus over the next few years. So they would only be gaining a little over a million dollars to sign a FA, and they would be without another receiver. They need to compliment Crabs, not get rid of the guy.
BigP
Let me ask a different question then.
Would it be worth getting Wallace if we had to lose MC for cap purposes?
If you think that JM can get to be at least an average WR, how much of a drop off would there really be in WR production if JM replaced MC (keeping in mind that Wallace is here)?
Add Williams (I think JH still keeps him) and draft another WR, and/or pick up a “B” list WR FA for cheap like the Edwards deal if the cap allows, and we have a much better WR core in my opinion than we did last year.
And, I hope that the top brass are not looking at how much MC makes to determine if he should stay on the team and the salary cap hit they will take if he does not. This team has a window to win a Super Bowl. Keeping a WR around who won’t be 5-10x more productive than JM is (based on value for your money) and not getting an awesome WR because what the Niners owe MC (cap hit wise) would disappoint me.
A Super Bowl trophy is worth the few million or so the Niners would get hit on for dumping MC. I don’t see anybody wanting to trade for him, so if they were to let him go, they would just have to eat his signing bonus.
DS, Thank you for posting that link. It should make the FA discussions a little more intelligent and informed.
I agree with BigP regarding MC. We need to build at the WR position, not substitute. If we bring in a FA, say Colston just as an example and he ends up with his career average of 1040 yards it is a net gain of less than 200 yards. If you bring him in and pair him with MC and they both just hit their career averages it is a net impact of +1040 yards.
This would put the defense in a real bind because it is much easier to double VD when you only have to focus on one WR threat instead of two accross the field.
I understand you don’t like MC, but hopefully you can understand my point from a strategic standpoint. (don’t take that as a shot at you, wasn’t intended that way)
DS,
I don’t think you get rid of Crabs. He has a lot of talent and he is a hard worker. I really believe he can be a special player. He may be immature, but so was Vernon Davis. I think Morgan is perceived to be more valuable than he really is because of the lack of depth at receiver last season. There really wasn’t a complimentary receiver opposite Crabtree, and it took it’s toll as the season wore on. I think Morgan is a #3 receiver, but a very valuable commodity to the team. I guess to directly answer your question, no-I don’t think it would be worth it to cut Crabs and sign Wallace because I think those two would compliment each other perfectly. That’s what your looking for in a receiving corps. Just like I see the potential in Smith and welcome him back next year, I see the same thing in Crabs. He has gotten better every year and should be an ideal WC receiver. Have faith in the kid, I think you will be rewarded.
Jack
I gave JM an Incomplete last year. But, I think JM had a reasonable shot at being AS go-to WR guy. However you want to put it, he may not have lead the Niners in WR stats, but AS has a comfort with JM that he only has with VD. And MC is 3 years in now. So, if AS and MC don’t have it now…they may never have it.
So, I’m guessing that the dropoff between MC and JM is not so great as you make it out to be.
And, add to that a WR who a defense needs to 2-cover (MC never required 2-coverage in the postseason, and rarely in the regular season) and you have a lot more than a stats upgrade here. You have a real threat outside. And I say that makes a ton more difference in everything than MC does.
I’ll ask you. What does MC do that is so much better than what JM can do? If you can’t come up with a real answer (Not stats. I want a list of things such as speed, route running, etc MC brings that JM just can’t deliver ever) then I don’t buy your argument.
DS, where did I make any comparison between MC and JM? Please show me if I did.
I like JM too, and as BigP says in the post above I think he is a very valuable asset that we need to come. An offensive set featuring say Colston on one side, JM on the other, MC in the slot, VD and Gore in the backfield would be a tough matchup for any D because they’d need to worry about the entire field in the passing game and running game.
Put someone like Ginn or KW in place of MC and it isn’t quite so scary.
You didn’t per say Jack.
But what you did do was compare Wallace and MC production stats.
And what I am doing, is saying that MC is not that much appreciatively better than JM and that JM can basically do all the same things MC can do.
You left out the fact that JM will come back to the Niners. And, I think his production and skill set is similar to MC’s. Only JM costs a lot less money and does not give stupid interviews following games.
So, where you see a complete loss if MC were to go, I see that hole pretty much getting filled by JM. And since JM was for the most part not present last season, the production by non-Wallace WR’s would still be present. And ideally increased with VD and Wallace getting 2-teams a lot.
P.S. Although nobody seems to want to believe me, if AS had acted like MC had following that title game and not blamed himself (see MC), I would have stopped “believing in AS” a long time ago. MC was horrible for 7 straight postseason quarters, and never once implied that he needed to play better himself. And that he needs to find a way to improve. Big P, VD even when he was immature like MC was, he at least practiced hard and never gave interviews like MC had after the last game.
DS, Please read the post before commenting. I am AGREEING with you that MC and JM are very similar types of receivers and their numbers would probably been very similar had JM not been injured.
The reason I say that getting rid of MC to bring in another receiver as you bring up is not a good move is because this team NEEDS wide receivers and should not be moving their leading receiver to bring in someone else, because you would still have the lack of quality depth that became a problem as this year went on.
We would be better served to add another quality WR then to drop one for another. We need to be adding talent at WR, not substituting one for the other as you are suggesting.
You actually didn’t say you thought they were similar. You said that you like them both. To me that is not the same thing.
But who cares. I think Wallace is WAY better than MC. We are not getting rid of an average overpaid WR for another average overpaid WR. We are getting an elite WR in exchange for an average WR whose skills can be replaced by somebody who can do the same thing for a lot less money minus the attitude in JM.
We can still draft a WR in the mid- rounds. And with some luck, we will have a nice WR core who can all do different things. As opposed to having a WR core who all do the same thing and not that well either.
If MC were not on the Niners, how much a sigh of relief would CB’s feel? Do CB’s feel a little more uneasy? If Wallace is on the Niners, how much sighing will CB’s do then?
DS, It’s ok. You have your opinion, I have mine. I find it very interesting how your opinion on MC is so close to the opinion that many of the non-Smith believers have of Alex.
As I said last week when we discussed this, although appearances may look different, I am not a big Crabtree fan. I just do not see the benefit of the move you are suggesting. K sera sera
Jack Hammer is right. Crabtree is 24 years old. He has gotten better every year despite injuries and learning a new offensive system. His production has gone up every year. If he improves again next year you have a 25 year old, 1,000 yard receiver. That’s why you drafted the guy. Vernon didn’t have a big year until his fourth season, when they started utilizing him correctly. The idea of cutting Crabs seems more like a personal vendetta then a sound football decision. It’s about adding another piece to strengthen the team, not getting rid of a young and talented player.
No Jack
The AS and MC situation are not nearly the same. Agree or disagree with me on getting rid of MC if needbe to get Wallace. But don’t think that the AS and MC things are the same.
VD blew up on MC 2 years ago. VD is a staunch AS supporter. MC has always been at best cautious about his backing of AS. And that is putting a very positive spin on it.
BigP – VD’s first catch was for a great TD. He out ran the entire defense. VD immediately showed why he deserved to be drafted. He did something right there that I have never seen from MC despite MC being our leading WR. And sorry. MC had a decent rookie year after his holdout. Then in 2010, he really stank it up. He was not better in 2010 than in 2009. And last year, he was ok in the regular season. But come the playoffs, after the 1sst quarter, would it have made a difference if a rag was out there instead of MC? He stank at the time we needed him.
MC’s 1st game…well it wasn’t opening day. He wanted more money coming off a broken foot. Not the same thing (personality or skill wise) at all. Don’t fool yourself into that one.
If AS behaved like MC, I would not be/have supported AS at all. So, no. Not the same thing at all.
Also, I’m not calling him female names and cussing out/attacking those who disagree with my current take on MC. I have not threatened to beat somebody up like one known hater did when somebody didn’t think so highly of SY as he does.
Don’t even try to equate my feelings/opinions on MC being like those of the haters. And, JH fully supports AS, so anybody who is unhappy with AS, is just blowing chunks. Because AS is staying. MC may also stay. But he never garnered the praise that JH bestowed on AS. That is because he didn’t earn being called elite or pro-bowler. He may one day. But his attitude, injury and lack of big plays in big moments is not something I can ignore after 3 years. The same 3 years where AS has demonstrated all those good things.
“Don’t even try to equate my feelings/opinions on MC being like those of the haters.”
They are exactly the same, except for the fact that MC has actually improved every season-making your argument even weaker.
Read further down BigP.
Why in the world would the Niners even entertain cutting Crabtree when he is signed for 3 more years and just put up his best season? The guy caught 70+ passes after playing with a bad foot for the first few games of the year. You have to let players develop and Crabtree has shown he can play when healthy. It’s been a slow process because he’s been hurt during TC the past two years but you can’t let that cloud your judgement on what he can be when healthy.
Harbaugh likes Crabtree a lot and although he drops a few more passes than I’d like, he also has a propensity for making some spectacular ones as well. I have no problem with them adding another vet to the mix, but Crabtree is going nowhere nor should he imo.
You have an agenda, which is to see Crabtree fail. I don’t want any part of that just like I don’t want to see Smith or anybody on the team fail. If I keep arguing with you, you will eventually make a comment about my screen name or some other b.s. It’s pointless, just like your idea of getting rid of Crabtree. Talk about being a hater.
The above comment is meant for DS.
I already explained myself on this one rocket.
To get Wallace, cutting MC would be a small price to pay.
And MC’s best regular season ended withthe worst post season. He didn’t deliver.
DS,
I read what you wrote; I just don’t agree with it. I don’t see how cutting Crabtree and giving up our 1st round pick to sign Wallace is a good move.
I also disagree with you in regards to how Harbaugh views Crabtree. He went out of his way – as did Roman – to talk up Crabtree being a team guy and doing a great job with his run blocking etc.
I understand why you get annoyed with the things that are said about Alex Smith which is why I think you’re being a little hypocritical in regards to Crabtree.
rocket
I don’t remember JH really talking up MC that much. He spoke well of him when asked of MC. He did so with every player. So, that in itself does not mean a lot.
And, sorry, I am not being hypocritical. MC has had 3 years to show his stuff. How long do most WR’s take to show it? When MC arrived, the Niners were a lot better team than they were when AS arrived, so you can’t make that comparison. I don’t want the first words coming out of the mouth of the HC about our #1 WR to be about how good a blocker he is. They should be some something about how good he is at getting open, making the big play, that sort of thing.
I said at the beginning of the season, that I was going to give MC this year to prove himself. He failed to meet the standards that I have for a #1 WR. He had a miserable final 7 quarters and then he blamed everybody but himself. I saw the press conference when a reporter asked JH about that. JH certainly wasn’t happy about it.
Besides, if MC was all that, how come after the title game a bunch of people were writing that the Niners draft should consist of WR, WR, WR, WR, etc? Why would Grant even have a blog subject about getting Wallace if MC was already a great WR? And Grant is not the only one. Every major Niner blog is discussing it. And they are discussing it because we need a lot better from our WR’s. The focus of much of the off-season from a media and fans perspective has been to get better WR’s and how can that not speak something about MC not being the one? He was drafted to be the best. And after 3 years, he is far from it.
DS, The reason that everyone has been screaming about adding WR this offseason is because we ended the season with MC, KW and Swain.
You keep saying that MC is not a #1 WR, however I don’t see anyone telling you that he is so. People are just disagreeing with your assertion that we should cut him. He led the team in receiving this year, is under contract and it makes far more sense to build depth at this position with more talent then it does to let the talent you have leave.
You keep trying to paint MC as a guy who doesn’t work or have the support of the front office. Baalke himself had this to say about MC yesterday, “Michael works hard. He works hard at the game. He did a nice job. He certainly had some growth. I like the growth that he had in a new system; like the chemistry that he and Alex seem to develop through the course of the year. Whether he can define himself as a true #1 in the National Football League or not remains to be seen. But I’m certainly happy with the progress he made.”
As I said to you yesterday, you have your opinion and I have mine. The only difference between your view on MC and the view of the anti-smith group is that you haven’t resorted to name calling, but you have called me a third grader, and some other things so you aren’t that far in that respect either I guess.
DS,
Crabtree did improve and that is the point I’m making when I say you are contradicting yourself. You are all for giving Smith time to get better but you are ready to cut bait on Crabtree.
You’re right, he hasn’t shown he’s a #1 WR, but he also isn’t a scrub who we should drop either. He’s improved to the point that he was our leading receiver last season. That came despite the fact he was playing with an injured foot that he couldn’t practice with until more than half way through the season.
I’m all for adding to the position, but I’m not going to agree that cutting a young WR who just caught 70 balls with an injury is a good idea. It makes no sense imo.
baalke has made it pretty clear crabtree is here to stay and the paraphrasing of the week is this offseason it is imperative crabtree and AS get on the same page early on and make each other relevant…..there is work to be done so let’s get it done…..
one player might put them over the top in the short run but good cap management can keep us on top for the long run. study how the pats and steelers do it and i think you will find thats how balke did it last yr
and the niners should go after morley safer to paly cornerback
Very sound. Grant, with probability increasing that Chiefs could re-sign Bowe, ultimately raising the prices of remaining free agent WR’s, what do you think our chances are of acquiring a Wallace or VJack? Granted, Niners are more attractive these days but do you think Baalke is willing to pay the price? And this may be obvious but it’s worth asking: Has the organization closed the door on Edwards? From an HR perspective, I wonder if drafting a WR and asking Crabtree to take more leadership of the receiving corps (a la V. Davis) is a consideration.
i think the 9ers biggest need is the red zone turn about half of those field goals into touchdowns. thats where fleener could star
Grant, agree with you 100% but it won’t happen. The 9ers have proven the last couple of years that not spending big money on FA’s (DWhitner, CRogers) works well. When everyone wanted NnamdiA the 9ers went after the 8th ranked CB (CRogers) and payed a lot less for good quality.
That is why I see the 9ers going after RMeachem a 2nd tier WR. They get a WR that is young (27), good speed (4.3), could learn the playbook relatively quickly during the offseason, and has major upside. RM’s salary requirements would be in the $2M per year avg versus giving up a 1st round pick and around $7M+ avg with signing bonus and incentives to MW. Going after MW is against their business plan and would set a precedent for all of their own FA’s. Of course I like the idea of acquiring the number one WR FA, but I just don’t think it will happen for the reasons I mention above.
I’m also thinking the 9ers may go defense with the first pick in the draft depending on who they sign during FA.
one of the more thought out responses on here.
maybe grant can do a WR article comparing johnson’s attributes to meachem’s attributes and salary requirements and who ever else fits in the mode of redzone targeting and creating space for other receiving weapons and loosening up those 8-9 men boxes
Hofer,
Meachem doesn’t have major upside. He is who he is, he has never even approached 1000 yards with Drew Brees throwing to him in a pass happy system. He was sixth in receptions on the Saints and fifth in receiving yardage last season. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine five years ago and doesn’t play anywhere near that speed. He could be a complimentary piece, but he simply doesn’t have the upside you talk about. If he did, it would have been brought to light in NO.
During FA last year, they also said CRogers was done. Hmm.
Well said….
Meant. Big P, well said.
Nobody said he was done, they just said he wasn’t worth a top tier CB contract-which is why he didn’t get one. He was always a solid player that was known for dropping sure INT’s.
RM will be out to prove that he can take on more responsibility and a heavier work load. Of course with Colston and Graham, his catches/production will be down. At 27 who knows if he has more upside with the right system and coaching. It will be interesting…
Hofe, interesting thought on R.Meachem. But as you mentioned (and I agree), he is a 2nd tier WR. I also believe that T.Ginn is (except for a size difference) close to being the same type of WR. TGjr also gives us better value because of his strong ST’ play. I could be wrong, but I don’t recall R.Meachem being a Starter for NO.
I still would make a strong pitch at M.Wallace. Yes, he would warrant a kings ransom, but there is no other WR whether F/A or Draftee that has the potential to immediately put us over the top. Perhaps he could be persuaded to sign a contract that is back-end-heavy with huge dollars coming by way of meeting specific goals and numbers at season’s end? If Wallace were coming into this years draft (hypothetical of course) with the skills we know he has, he would be the 1st WR chosen.
But I personally believe that either the Steelers break the bank for him or if he does sign elsewhere it will likely be in New England.
AES, I hear you but it’s not the pattern for the 9ers brass to go after an expensive top tier FA especially when adding in a 1st round pick albeit a 30th pick. I still think RMeachem or Garcon for that matter would fit the 9er plan. The first round pick can be used as a value pick for the defense (CB or DE/OLB). Looking forward to FA and the draft.
They gave the Cowboy $20 million guaranteed, people thought they overpaid for him because he never put up big sack numbers. His contract looks like a bargain right now.
@hof
“…but it’s not the pattern for the 9ers brass to go after an expensive top tier FA ”
I’m sorry, but you can’t draw general conclusions about anybody/anything after a sample size of only 1.
In this case, we have seen 1 offseason of how TB and JH think. And that was impacted by the lockout in ways that I am sure this offseason won’t be.
We are all just assuming things. The Niners did go after NA bigtime. They just didn’t get him for whatever reason.
I really like Wallace’s skill set and certainly wouldn’t mind seeing him in red and gold, but I don’t like his lack of size.
I think the best fit at WR for Smith and this WCO is a big target that stands at least 6’3 (preferably 6’4), can extend drives, and be the red zone target they so desperately need.
Before, I would agree with Grant. This year I sense that Baalke will have the same approach as last year if the FA WR market holds at least three high caliber players like V. Jackson, D. Bowe, S. Johnson and D. Jackson. Then the market would bear a better valued price. If one or worse, two of them get the franchise tag, then the Market skyrockets for VJ and Johnson for example.
Wallace would want to see how those contracts are designed. We would have to pay big $$$$ AND give up our 1st. With going after VJ, we would pay out the nose, but keep our 1st. I expect Baalke to not over bid for services. Instead, he will have the same approach as he did with the CB market last year. I believe Laurent, Doucet, Manningham and Meachem are valuable speedy WRs who could come cheaper and more affordable like Rogers last year. I know they will get Morgan back cheap so why go all out with big $$$?
Keep #30 and draft Fleener for example. We would have our RZ target plus he knows Harbaugh’s system and would integrate faster than most others in this offense. Then we can draft a burner to replace Ginn at ST while giving us another slot WR to compete against Williams. We would then have Crabs, Laurent, Morgan, rookie burner, Davis, Fleener and Walker.
I just don’t see the value in paying top $$$$ plus giving up our 1st for just one player. Selling the farm hasn’t worked well for us in the past where we were in salary cap hell. Baalke will not let that happen again.
Wallace is just too expensive, IMO. We have many options and Baalke will leave no stone unturned.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I think Wallace, in theory, would be a good addition to the team, but have faith in Baalke and company to find a better value with someone who won’t command such a high price. Nobody predicted any of their moves in FA at the beginning of the season and I expect we won’t be able to predict what they’re going to do this year either.
However, if I had to guess, I think they try and shore up the existing players first (Goldson, Rogers, Smith, Snyder, and Brooks) and maybe go after Wayne in FA. My hunch on them going after Wayne is that they need an experienced WR who can help work with the young guys, yet still provide solid on field production and won’t demand an overpriced contract.
They’ll also look to pick up this year’s Aldon Smith of the WR draft class. NOBODY said the name Aldon Smith and 49ers in the same sentence prior to the Niners drafting him – have a feeling the #30 pick is going to surprise us this year as well. The scout team did an amazing job last year and got immediate payback on most of their picks. There’s no reason to believe they won’t have a similar amount of success this year, so no need to overpay for someone like Mike Wallace.
Let us not forget last year many people thought we were doomed at CB if we didn’t sign Nnamdi…or draft Patrick Peterson…or Prince Amukamara…
Very well said, 49erGirl! Agree wholeheartedly. I expect us to resign our guys first leading with Alex whose deal, IMO, would be incentive laden and allow the FO to sign other players, a FO friendly contract if you will. Then I see franchising Goldson and resign Rodgers. I expect Brooks to walk as Aldon Smith is his replacement, it’s evident. So we need another OLB and I expect him to come from round 1 or 2 in the draft if we don’t go for one in FA.
As far as WR in FA, we have so many choices. Now, the OLB market is not that great, but there will be a highly coveted player at that position and he also plays great DE…sounds like Wario. :) Now that would be a signing and a half! Mario and Aldon…OK, I now woke up. Nice dream though. :)
I would love to have Wallace but 49ergirl is probably stating what management will do.
Depends on the cash amount Mr. Wallace is looking for. I do not see Mr. Baalke spending big money unless the realization that this team is poised to make the Super Bowl with an addition of a dude like this. I’m all for the strategy though.
Trent Baalke would be stupid crazy to go after a Restricted Free Agent Receiver with as much talent is as available in the UNRESTRICTED Free Agent market.
With no compensatory picks the 9ers are gonna have only going to have one pick per round. While I like Wallace, I do not agree that he’s the guy the 9ers need. Not with Colston, Meechem, Manningham, Vincent Jackson on the Free Agent list and not with the Saints not being able to Tag two players. I’d rather have Colston but Meechem would be a pretty good runner up award and it would take away one of Brees targets by getting one of them.
Then of course with Vincent Jackson that would be a pretty good move too. Use the picks in the Draft and get better and get some competition for areas of need, don’t waste one or two on a guy that may not make the impact that he makes for the team he currently plays for. Guys can be waived if they don’t cut it. Picks cannot be restored, nor can the Players those picks may have garnered.
As I said Baalke would have to be stupid crazy to make that move.
I could be very wrong, but if I’ve learned anything about the Harbaalke mindset, it’s not gonna happen. Surrendering a first round pick for a RFA is not their way.
Niners are focused on building a winning team will not break the bank for any player. They are looking for value, and Wallace is going to be very costly. In any case, they need a big-bodied red-zone WR with sure hands much, much more than they need a burner like Wallace.
It would be far more interesting to try to predict what the Niners F.O. WILL do rather than undertake the sophomoric exercise of playing couch GM and telling them how how to do their job. Whether they sign a WR at all in FA depends on whether they can resign Morgan and Ginn and how their draft board looks.
For draft value, I’d look for the Niners to possibly move up in the second round (or even trade down to about #35-45 pick range ) to grab Dwight Jones of North Carolina who at 6’4″ and 220 has lot of the qualities they are looking for. They can coach up is route running and catching consistency.
Mood,
I like Dwight Jones as well. His measurables are off the chart, but I believe he has shown a lack of maturity. Take a look at the New Year’s Eve party he threw which violated NCCA rules. Just looking at the advertisement on the flier which he promoted gives me reason to be concerned over his lack of better judgement.
*NCAA*
Good point. Were not aware of these issues.
According to NFLDraftScout.com, Jones didn’t have a good showing at the Senior Bowl.
“01/27/2012 – 2012 SENIOR BOWL FALLERS: Dwight Jones, WR, North Carolina: With Baylor’s Kendall Wright, Notre Dame’s Michael Floyd and Wisconsin’s Nick Toon pulling out of the Senior Bowl due to injury, the distinction of top senior wideout at the Senior Bowl was expected to go to Dwight Jones out of North Carolina. However, he didn’t seize the opportunity and looked extremely ordinary and inconsistent this week. For a player with an imposing frame (6-3, 226 pounds with almost 34-inch arms), Jones struggled to make contested catches in tight windows and was routinely out-muscled by defensive backs who appeared to “want it” more. For a player who won’t wow anyone with his speed or quickness, Jones better catch the football if he hopes to make a living at the next level, but he would often fight the ball in practice and showed little of the playmaking ability he flashed at North Carolina. Jones has obvious upside, but after an uninspiring performance this week, scouts are departing Mobile wondering if he’s a player who will ever reach his full potential. – Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com”
The argument posed could be used for many other wide receivers that the 49ers also need: Colston, Jackson, Robinson etc…
Keeping Brooks and getting Wallace and losing Rogers and a first round pick is a great trade for the Niners.
I completely agree. The remaining question will the cap hit of signing Wallace and how it will impact retaining our other FA’s.
If we lose Brooks, however, there are viable OLB options in the draft. Here are the prospects of so-called ‘hybrid linebackers’ – players who can not only rush the passer but also drop into coverage:
Melvin Ingram, South Carolina
Courtney Upshaw, Alabama
Andre Branch, Clemson
Zach Brown, North Carolina
Vinny Curry, Marshall
http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09000d5d82715132/article/talent-runs-thick-at-outside-linebacker-ilb-more-uncertain?module=HP11_hot_topics
Nick, you know my stance on VCurry. If there at 30, 9ers should grab him. He and AldSmith would be great together.
Hofer
My sleeper ILB pick is Shea McClellin, 6-3, 255, Boise St. He’s a versatile high motor guy with great production in college and excellent football speed. He could be available in the mid rounds. Some experts consider him to be the top prospect coming out of Boise St. this year.
I agree Hofer, Curry is a bit raw but is a monster off the edge and can be very disruptive. He played well at the Senior Bowl, but ultimately, his stock will be determined this week at the combine.
If you guys have watched Wallace play, you know he IS NOT a one trick pony. He runs the hitches and bubble screens incredibly well, and he has shown courage over the middle when called upon (have a friend who is huge Steelers fan).
I think we should offer him what WE believe is a fair deal. If Wallace chooses to sign with a different team, we won’t have overpaid for him. That goes in line with our FO’s philosophy, which will keep us out of long term cap issues.
We don’t have money to offer him. Would you consider 3-5 mil a year to MW as a fair deal? Probably not, he would consider that insulting.
Maybe I’m cheap, but somewhere in the 6-8M range is what I’d offer. It probably means we can’t resign Rogers, but we could then go after Trumaine Johnson in the draft.
Trumaine Johnson will not be able to guard the slot. He has a Safety build. Also, for someone his size, he is not nearly as physical as you’d like in a NFL CB. 6-8 M might be tempting if MW doesn’t get a better offer, but we wont even have 6-8 mil available. You are talking about SF releasing CR and AB to free up 6-8 mill.
@Ninerminer81
I agree regarding Trumaine Johnson. There are other more interesting prospect at CB in this year’s draft:
Janoris Jenkins – fast, fluid athlete with good timing. Off field issues may drop his stock. Could be had late in the 1st round
Leonard Johnson – good speed, agile, and good ball skills. Lack of height may be a concern, nonetheless, solid tackler and good leader
Chase Minnifield – competitive, good in run support, good in man coverage. Son of former Pro Bowl cornerback Frank Minnifield
Notable mentions – these guys played well at the Senior Bowl:
Oklahoma’s Jamell Fleming
Cal-Poly’s Asa Jackson – this dude is fast
@ NickRow
I absolutely love Janoris Jenkins, but he’ll be long gone by the time we pick. I think he’s a more complete CB than Dre Kirkpatrick.
Leonard Johnson concerns me because of his size, otherwise I think he is more technically sound than most people think.
Chase Minnifield is a physical CB with great ball skills. I too think he is better than Dre Kirkpatrick. I would love this pick if he runs a fast 40. I think it would be a reach for us at 30, but may be gone by the time we pick in the 2nd round.
I didn’t watch the senior bowl this year, which I regret.
Harbaugh runs a multitude of tightend formations. That is his bread and butter. So it seems to make sense to draft Fleener at number 30. If you are going to draft a WR at 30 it would make more sense to do the Wallace thing as your getting a young proven receiver for a first round pick. Out of all the FAs receivers Vincent Jackson is big and fast and would be a good pickup. I think he is going to be out of the Niners price range. I have heard that he quits on plays tho, I have not seen this myself but…… I have complete faith in Baalke and Harbaugh to make the right moves for the team. This is going to be a very interesting off season and I am already waiting for opening day.
I completely disagree with your multiple TE formation assessment. I completely disagree with a TE at 30. I even further disagree about the MW trade with a 1st rounder.
The only reason we played multiple TE sets were because we have 2 awesome TEs that are matchup nightmares for defenses. If we had more experience at WR and a QB who had the arm strength to make all the throws, we would be playing a spread offense.
We have so many needs and TE is not one of them. We need help at G, DT, CB, and WR. Additionally, MW with all his glamour does not solve the issue of a big physical presence that can be a red zone threat.
Not to be argumentative, but as for VJax, watch the GB game. Rivers tosses a 50 yard hail mary to VJax to tie the game and he pretends to not see the ball.
Harbaughs history is tight ends. Look at all his teams they are loaded with them. Your right if he isnt going to run a lot of tight end formations Fleener would be a waste of pick. I am not saying Wallace is a good move I am just saying if your going to draft a WR at 30 getting a proven young talent would be good move. It would be someone who could help without grooming. Yes if VJax is going to quit on plays which I havnt seen then we dont need him.
@undercenter
JH’s history is TE, no doubt.
And, he had 2 very good TE’s on this Niner team who can catch and block rather well in VD and DW.
But, what happened for much of the year?
Teams did not have to worry about a threat outside at WR. So, they could just blitz at will. And, our great receiving TE’s were held in to block far too often. And, when they were not, all the other team had to do was put 2-3 guys on VD in the Red zone and hinge their bets that the WR’s could not get open. And more than not, that worked.
A 3rd TE, no matter how good he may be…I just don’t see that solving the problem. Not, unless we get a WR someplace else so that we can have both.
@DS
I didnt say TE was a problem. I just feel with the type of offense Harbaugh uses you cant have two many TEs. I agree whole heartdly we need a WR, and its our most glaring shortcoming. Crabtree is just starting to mature and its been three years. Wallace brings speed to the position. He has his shortcomings but they all seem too. The reason and only reason I like Fleener as a first round pick is Harbaugh uses 2 and 3 tight end sets a whole lot. He was forced to use lineman to fill in positions that a third tight end would fill. Think of Davis, Walker, Fleener on the field at the same time. Matchup problems big time. Get some speed on the outside and defenses will be really challenged. Got to remember Harbaugh loves the power run. Yes you are all right TE is not a position of need but it is a position filled by only Fleener can can make the Niners very dynamic team. As far as red zone problems we have them for sure – I just wonder how much of the problem was due to play calling?
@undercenter
I didn’t mean that TE was a problem for the Niners.
The problem I was referring to was the WR problem, and how I don’t see that getting resolved by the Niners drafting Fleener, another TE.
Now, maybe they go WR a few times later in the draft, and one of those work out, and try their hand in FA.
Draft a TE when u have one of the best and a very good backup?….Not only that there are other needs…ridiculous
I’m so appreciating real football talk here folks. Grant made good points and so have the commenters both in agreement and otherwise. Grant’s point about Brooks resonated with me; it’ll make a difference in priority needs.
At WR I think we need a difference-maker, but you can’t always get one. Judging by last year’s moves, I suspect TB to go after both VJ & MW, but not in a Hell-bent way. Similar to Namdi, he’ll get in early and then bail later if the bidding gets too heavy. Still, if the price is OK, wouldn’t Meachem be an upgrade even if he isn’t “The Answer”?
I notice that now both VJ & MW have mentioned the 9ers, but that could be a ploy to put pressure on other interested teams.
As to losing Rogers, well it makes me a little nervous. Last season we had some competence in the secondary and I’m scared to mess with that.
Drafting Fleener doesn’t make any sense at all since we have Bynam coming back from injury and he’s one of our best blocking TE’s. Vicent Jackson would be the perfect big WR to fit our scheme. I like Wallace but he will want to much for what we can offer him.
I think the Steelers find a way to keep Wallace…they want to keep Big Ben happy, and he’s his real go-to guy. Teams restructure veteran contracts all the time to keep players they really want. Given that, I’d go after Manningham. He’s a big-play WR…we know that only too well. Chances of landing him are much better than Wallace. Adding him, drafting Fleener and re-signing Morgan will go a long way toward fixing our depleted receiving corps. And all that’s without giving up a potential 1st rd pick.
I agree with those one here who are not wetting their pants over the idea of Mike Wallace in red and gold (and loved the Ferrari analogy!). Taking nothing away from Wallace’s abilities or his value to SOME team, I don’t think he would be a good use of resources on THIS team. Look back at the playoffs: we hit more long plays to VDavis than we had all year (exaggeration, I know … just making a point); the long plays were not what was missing or what ultimately killed us. What was missing all year and what killed us in the end was the inability to convert 3rd downs on a consistent basis, and the complete lack of red-zone productivity. Yes: having someone to blow the top off defenses would be nice and would be fun to watch, but it is not what this offense needs to take the team to the next (ultimate) level. Give us Colston in FA (or S Johnson) then look for another big bodied WR in the draft (maybe Floyd falls?).
Floyd is not very impressive. Lets see how he does at the combined. I actually prefer Sanu in the 1st round or Fleener in the mid rounds.
Oops, meant Streeter from Miami. Not fleener
Agreed. Floyd is not that physical for a guy that is 6’3″ 225. He does not appear very fluid in his route running with stiff hips. He also lets too many passes get into his chest.
Exactly! Alex needs a big target with great hands. He’s not that strong with the long throws, i.e. he misses more than he hits.
I might have to agree with several of you that Floyd might not be all he has been made out to be by some. I was operating more on the general pre-draft consensus, but after watching some clips of several of these larger WRs the one I am perhaps most intrigued by is, as NickRow suggested, Sanu. You watch his clips and you can’t help but be impressed not only with his ability to make the tough catches, but also his versatility and apparent blocking ability. Add into it that he sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders, and I would take that over a burner-diva any day.
The Patriots have two first round picks and will also be looking for a WR. I’m puting our chances of signing Wallace at around O%.
@josh
I don’t see why the Pats having 2 1st rounders has anything to do with the Niners chances.
The Steelers can’t trade him like the Niners could say PW, and set the price. The price is already set for what any team has to give up to get Wallace. One 1st round pick. Having 2-4 1st round picks won’t effect that at all.
As long as you have one 1st (the Niners do), then they can get Wallace just like any other team with a 1st can.
And 0% is way too low. JH was very complimentary of Wallace before the Pitt game on Monday night. JH knows we need a true #1 WR as does TB, and the rest of the football world. If not Wallace, it will be somebody. And if Wallace is the best player at his position who can be snagged, and he fills our greatest need, I can’t just dismiss the idea outright.
if the 9ers draft fleener i predict he will catch at least 8 td’s and will be their #1 go to guy on 3rd down. i think evetually he will be as good as vd
Wallace is a very good player, who would open up the offense by stretching the field with his speed and ability. And the Niners are unlikely to go there.
They will sign as many of their free agents as they can. If 2011 is an indicator they will not engage in a bidding war for a free agent.
I think they will look for a player who is built like B. Edwards; big and strong and with good, but not great speed. Colston is more of the Niners type than Wallace and is cheaper and will not cost a draft choice.
Sanu looks interesting. In his youtube highlight reel he looked fast enough, has real good hands and had two “oooh” blocks that decleated the defenders. He looks like a Harbaugh type of player.
Wallace is also very good at fighting for the ball. He doesn’t get the credit for it because he usually is running past defenders. Colston is a good player, but he has had several knee surgeries during his career including microfracture. If you don’t know what microfracture is, it’s where they drill holes in the bone so that the ensuing blood clot forms a new layer of cartilage. Kind of scary when you are investing that much money in a guy.
i think people are focusing to much on speed and a deep threat. the 49ers main weakness was red zone and third downs. add our fg attempts and td’s together. i bet were top 10 in that number. we just need to turn those fg’s into td’s. in that case it isnt speed were looking for but size and toughness. i know i’m repeating myself but that describes fleener to a t it also describes j. morgan
The way Harbaugh thinks, its not about TE or WR…its about match ups. How can he gain an advantage in certain situations? The most glaring weakness on offense was its failure to convert on third down and in the Red Zone. That is the whole story in a nutshell, so it doesn’t matter if you like Vernon Davis and Delanie Walker…they obviously weren’t the solution in these situations. All that matters is if 6’6″ Fleener provides more answers in the Red Zone or converting first downs because he is a match up nightmare for DBs and LBs. As for Wallace, he sure covers a lot of ground fast, and that makes him a match up problem for other defenses. But, how does that translate to more success on third downs and in the Red Zone? I am not sure it does…but a bigger receiver like Bowe or Colston would be a matchup nightmare in the Red Zone. Wallace was on my fantasy league team…so I love him, but I don’t think he meets Harbaugh’s most pressing needs.
@tank +1
Very valid points. Fleener is Graham-esque in size and can be a big target so it will be interesting…
I like the idea of drafting a defensive back or a outside linebacker in the first round then in the second getting a Stephen Hill WR and in the 3rd a Bryan Quick WR, Hill I think is 6’3” and Quick is 6’4”… If either of those two doesn’t help the 3rd down efficiency or red zone problems… then nothing will…
I also think coaches might be looking for a RB to push Dixon, or replace him. If they see an RB they like they should take him. This class looks pretty big a terms of big WR’s.
Tony you took the words right out of my mouth with Stephen Hill. He caught only 28 balls but averaged 29.3 yards per catch. He is 6’5″ 208, I have not found his 40 yard time yet but if he’s at the combine we’ll know soon enough. He fits the criterion I have been saying, a fast wide receiver with limited catches in a run heavy offense but with a huge yards per catch ratio. Definitely a two or early three.
Pre-Combine reports had him in the 4.55 range. We’ll get an update from the Combine soon enough.
Of course the scouting report on Jerry Rice was that he had great hands as a possession receiver but not too fast.
Hill looks good to me too from what I’ve read so far and looks like a value at 2/3.
Tommy Streeter from Miami (6-4, 215, 4.49 in 40) could be the sleeper pick at WR. He could be had in the mid rounds unless his stock rises due to showing at combine.
disagree. We need depth and young talent. The stud 3-4 DE to back up Smith/Edwards and replace Smith in 2 years will be drafted early. Or the stud RB who falls (Gore’s replacement in 2013). Or the big WR we need to create mismatches…
The better alternative is to offer a sign and trade for a 2nd rd. pick, that way Wallace gets his market value (no holdout with Pitt) and the 49ers keep their 1st round pick.
I know more about the RB position in this year’s draft than anything other position brother. If we don’t get Trent Richardson, we need to pass on RB until next year. No one in the rest of the draft will replace Gore.
I was thinkin’ ….
Wouldn’t it be nice …
… if Andrew Luck … pulled a “John ‘crybaby’ Elway” .. & an
“Eli ‘the rug-rat’ Manning” ? …
Ya know ..
show the team that drafted you.. a “one-finger” salute .. and demand to be traded …
And Luck ends up playing just down Bayshore .. in the brand new stadium, in Santa Clara ?
u-hhhh ..
but then ..
I woke up
@MWNiner
Be careful, you might get labeled a hater with thoughts like that
The Smithers have the real hate.
I have not seen alot of Wallace. Given his stats and relatively young age, he could make sense.
It could hing on contract price. The rookie salary cap makes drafting more cap friendly compared to a few years ago. I would expect New England and Baltimore to also be interested.
If AS throws for 4000, 5000, or a million, it does not matter. Wins and playoff wins are all that Alex should be measured on. All that other garbage is for fantasy football followers and the haters to hang their hat on.
Just like Coach G Ro said, “all we care about is winning, all that other stuff is irrelevant”
yes Prime
People, you need to understand the purpose of the game is to win it. Not impress wanna be ex-jocks with fantasy numbers.
Those 2 QB’s who everybody was fantasizing about all season long (AR and DB) both failed to even reach the Title game. Look at the defenses and teams they played. Those teams were not very good or disciplined. A good passing game will rip that apart. A smart, good tackling team who does not beat themselves…then the passing game shows its limitations.
From top to bottom this draft seems pretty deep. If the players the Niners target at 30 are gone there should be trading partners . It looks as though many low round first rounders could fall to the second. For a draft astute GM like Baalke this could be the draft that keeps the team in contention for years to come.
Does Wallace have a choice on where he goes? If he had a choice he probably would go to the Patriots who really need a great reciever too and Tom Brady is modestly better then Alex Smith. Well he is a hell of alot better.
Not to mention that the kaeper has a cannon. I can see those two doing some amazing things.
So now we don’t get a weapon like Wallace because Alex Smith isn’t accurate enough to get him the deep ball.
This is the 49ers window to compete for a Superbowl. Alex is clearly not the QB we need to get it done. A window like this comes once every other decade and lasts for just a few years. Hooray for Alex that he’s not a bust. He’s also not close to being an elite SB QB and that’s what we need. He’s the 11th best QB in the NFC. 9 out of the past 10 Superbowls were won by elite QBs, and the one who wasn’t was 10 years ago and better than Alex (Brad Johnson).
Do we need to waste a potential Superbowl title year figuring out what we should already know?
Half of you are saying this very thing with regard to what receivers we should consider. Yet you won’t acknowledge that we’re probably wasting a shot at the Superbowl with Alex Smith. If you have a QB that can’t stretch the field, you have an extremely limited QB. Period.
Yeah.
That other Niner QB who couldn’t stretch the field, and threw all those checkdowns really stank.
Now, what was the guys name? It was probably just some ordinary Joe.
Along with not putting Marino and Fouts as elite QB’s, you now are comparing AS to Joe Montana, damn you Smither drink strong Kool Aid.
Exactly correct, we have a 3 to 4 year window of opportunity. JH is not a dummy. He will praise Alex and ride the Alex bus this year. If somehow Alex breaks from his past track record and continues to improve. If not, he’ll just be keeping the seat warm for the next QB – perhaps CK – in 2013.
That is right NickRow, our defense especially has a 4 year window before guy’s getting slower, I agree with you on the AS situation.
@Neal
An interesting scenario is to hypothetically fast forward to a year from now. By then, we should have a solid answer regarding AS and no more excuses.
>>Alex is clearly not the QB we need to get it done.
Clearly? Though he came within overtime of getting it done this year. A year with a new coach. and staff A new system. Minimal training camp. No receiving corps to speak of by year’s end. Closer than all but 2 other QBs in the entire f-ing league.
Yes, clearly.
Do you people even think before posting?
Hey ribico since you want to give Alex smith all the credit for getting to the NFC championship game it would be fair to compare his contribution to this teams success. A couple of questions
Was Alex smith and the passing attack as good as
1 the defense
2 special teams
3 running game?
Alex smith did NOT put this team on his back and take them to the NFC championship game. In fact their strong points like the 3 above is the main reason for success. I wonder if morons like you who have to argue and can’t see this team for what it is thinks before posting. Your so hell bent on fighting for smiths pride you will never see what his weaknesses are.
Yes smith had a hand in some late quarter comebacks, yes he improved on turn overs. But he is NOT a top shelf qb yet. Maybe he will be maybe he won’t. But those of you who give him all the credit kill me. Basic knowledge is…. Smith rode the back of this teams strengths. And it wasn’t the passing game. Period! Wake up. You sound like a puppy in love with #11. Keep it real like you did with your racism.
Was Roger Craig (and the Niners running game) as good as JM and the passing game md?
You’re point is not a fair one. What were your expectations for the passing game heading into the season?
My expectations were pretty much exactly what happened. The Niners would lean heavily on their defense and run game, and get timely passes by AS to win games.
And, that is what happened.
The Special teams being as good as they were completely took me by surprise. That CJ Spillman guy is the best “gunner” I’ve ever seen, and should be implemented into the defense more if he can learn his assignments. His open field tackling ability is unmatched.
MD – “Alex smith did NOT put this team on his back and take them to the NFC championship game.”
Uhhh…what do you call two come from behind, ballsy TD’s against the Saints? Sure, we was not the leading reason the team won all season long, that accolade falls to the D, but to say that he never put the team on his back to win is just plain incorrect. Let’s not forget the other come from behind W’s he had a strong hand in too…
MD,
I am with you brother. And trust me, even the Smithers know Alex’s weaknesses. The difference between us and them, is that they are willing to give more time because they believe in Harbaugh and believe that Alex has a higher ceiling than what he’s shown. They have no tangible evidence, they just believe. The evidence is on our side in the form of historical stats. “THEY” don’t like to use those.
What gets me is that some of them like to draw similarities between the great one JM and AS. ( I just threw up in my own mouth thinking about it )
Here is the main difference between Joe and Alex. Joe was a great QB that had occasional average moments. Alex is an average QB that has occasional good moments. No comparison AT ALL.
So to say that Alex put this team on his back…. that’s a joke. Alex carried this team and played at a great level twice this season. He played at a good level an additional 2 games this season. For the rest of the season he was ordinary. If ordinary is what a true 49er fan wants for a long term QB, than who am I to argue with them right?
Calistoga… I call that play a big time throw. I’m not taking that from him. It was fantastic. But there is a reason you can think of 1 single play. That’s because smith has never been consistent with that kind of throw in big moments. My point is I’m sick of reading people like ribico but in on opinions of smith and giving him total credit for where this team ended up. Anyone with a fair judgment knows that our defense got us that far. Our st was second best on the team and running 3rd. Passing was the weak link it’s just how it was. I do believe after another year in harbaughs system smith will elevate the passing game. But what some need to split is…. There is hope and a good chance smith will be better next year. This year however he wasn’t carrying this team won his shoulders. I think the smith bodyguards are soup right about the truth is because last year could have been as good as he gets. I would grade smiths year last season a c+. That’s not going to get a Super Bowl next year. The defense won’t match last season. The defense will still be top notch but not record breaking. The 3rd down conversions last game weren’t putting a team on your shoulders you can celebrate the n.o game but the next game was bigger and smith and special teams didn’t show up.
I Agree bay…. Smith with his play got me to believe in another year. Next year harbaugh will make him expand his game… Meaning better reads, more patience, and bigger plays. Now given his improvement from the dreadful seasons of the past and his system in college. I think smith has the promise to get better at those weaknesses. This year will tell it all. Whether he reached his ceiling as a game manager or taking that next step to the elite level and being the qb fans want.
Ds…. What does jm team have to do with this team? You need to stop bringing Montana’s name up in the smith progress. It’s ridiculous. And you say that this passing game was what you expected. Which is better than what I thought it would be after year one. The real question is……. Are you happy and content with the passing game? I for one think it can get a whole lot better. With smith expanding his game and a playmaker on the outside.
comparing the type of team the niners were in the early early 80′s is appropriate to what is occuring with the present team….dump off passes, relying on an excellent defense to get into a position were the offense could begin to gel, add pieces and improve after a couple of years of being together….it is not about comparing AS to JM and bloggers who take offense are just slanting the argument that way…..
the comparison is about how the events transpired…
If we’re going to keep beating the dead horse that is Alex Smith can we at least be truthful with the facts?
For those saying he hasn’t improved over time you are flat out wrong. The last 3 seasons he has improved his numbers and QB rating substantially.
We also need to stop with the “He had sucked for 6 years” before last season BS. The truth is he was awful his rookie year, improved dramatically his second and then lost most of two seasons to shoulder injuries. It’s not like he crapped the bed for 4 years.
Now on the other side of things, he was a key part of the offense this season, but being a key part of the 29th ranked offense in the league isn’t saying much. He played very cautiously and it was probably by design due to the offense not getting any time together in the offseason, but it has to get better if they want to take the next step next season. That means Alex needs to hit those deep sideline routes that he threw 5 yards out of bounds. It means he has to hit a wide open receiver behind the defense when it’s there. He has to be better period.
Judging from his last 3 years he can get better so before deciding he has reached his ceiling how about we wait until he actually stops progressing?
The point is md, that something has to be the weakest link in a team.
And given what happened, I knew it was going to be the passing game. How could it not be?
“Are you happy and content with the passing game? I for one think it can get a whole lot better. With smith expanding his game and a playmaker on the outside.”
Did you see the Niners getting to the NFC Title game this year losing in OT?
I didn’t. I like the good ratio of TD:Int. That is the most important stat to me (not really a stat per say) besides wins, which is always and forever will be the most important measuring stick. I like the 6 come back wins. 4 on the road in hostile places. That is very telling to me.
I don’t disagree with you at all (your quote anyway), which was also your question to me. If we are arguing about something that we agree with, how is this an argument again?
@jg
I do compare every QB to JM. But it isn’t in the manner that I think some here think about. When people compare TV’s to one another, are they saying that they are the same? No. They are not. But, to get an idea of what is good, great, average, bad, etc. one HAS to compare one thing to a similar thing. That is the only way to do it.
But, when it come to sports and football (QB especially), then all I am doing is comparing wins/losses and possibly styles. Football is an ever changing game, and has many different philosophies. And, if you try to compare those too much with one another, you’re just going to get lost and be wrong a lot.
>>Alex smith did NOT put this team on his back and take them to the NFC championship game.
If by “take them to the NFC championship game” you mean winning the divisional round, he most certainly did. To quote JH after that game, “it’s about time we give him credit.”
Why are continually hating on Harbaugh, md?
I don’t understand why people say the 9ers don’t have the money to sign Brooks, get a high dollar FA Receiver, Franchise Goldson(6 Mil) Sign Alex Smith and cannot retain Rodgers. I poo poo that stance. It’s bogus. The reality of it is the 9ers are under the Cap by over $30 million.
Franchising Goldson puts them at $24 million, Smith will get a reasonable backloaded contract that probably gives him $6 So that leaves $18 million left over. Brooks hasn’t really done anything to warrant more than $3 mil a year and he could get his deal back loaded if he was to return. Haralson should become a complete ghost imho, an instead of being one on the field should be one for good. Get him out of there. He’s not lived up to what got him paid an if he’s not a Free Agent this year, make him one and put that money back into the Cap. Bring Edwards back for the same deal he got last year as long as he passes muster and then sign a solid Receiver like Meechem or Colston. Morgan will sign pretty much any deal Baalke puts in front of him and give him a bonus laden contract. This way he sees a way to increase his value.
We’ve got money to spend on and still will remain under the Cap if Baalke spends it wisely. Suggesting otherwise is a bit short sighted.
ceddarman,
In theory I agree with you that there are ways to construct contracts that will allow the Niners to sign who they want. However I disagree with some of the numbers you’ve thrown out. Alex Smith is not going to count for as low as 6 mill and Brooks is not going to be kept at a 3 mill cap hit. That’s not realistic. You can move some money back in the form of roster bonus’ but modern contracts feature more up front money than backloaded both because players want to make the money early and the teams don’t want dead money on the cap if they lose a player to injury or his play doesn’t warrant the cap hit.
The Niners are in pretty good shape cap wise, but there are some big contracts that will have to be signed that will chew up most of that space not to mention the numerous lesser players that will have to be signed as well.
Ah for cryin out loud…Mike Wallace? if the 49ers are that desperate they might as well add Morely Safer and have Leslie Stahl be head chearleader.
lol at Stan, maybr they can bring back George Wallace too
Stan, Morley can’t go to his left, come to think of it he can’t go to his right either.
The only separation he can get is when his hip replacement fails him and he takes a faceplant. The DB not being aware of this keeps running coverage. :p
I agree with Old Coach, it is about speed but more importantly it has to be size and speed at the WR position. That’s not Wallace or D Jack. The better target would be D. BOWE or Colston. Both would be great red zone targets. From there you have options in the 1st three rounds to get another WR, Corner or OLB.
To me Brooks & Goldson are absolute musts. We have no depth at OLB and Haaralson is not an NFL starter, Aldon and Brooks are and now you need another to be a quality backup.
From there the Niners need a special teams ace to return punts and kickoffs. If Ginnn is that guy great, but that’s all he does, he is not a WC receiver. You hope that the rookie WR can do both of those or the corner they need to draft.
@Prime
It is about something more basic than that.
The WR needs to get open, and make the catch. I don’t care if it is speed, size, extreme luck every game for the next 5 years or so. A WR needs to get open consistently if a team wants to take away our running game and VD. I don’t care how. Just do it.
But would you take K. Wright if he fell to us? He’s not too big, but I’d take him. Whether or not JH/TB would I can’t say.
Prime you don’t like V Jackson out of sd? He’s at the top of my wish list. And Rogers? You don’t think he’s worth the money at a fair price? I think Rogers would be more fair about a contract than goldson. Hopefully Dg swallowed some pride when no one else wanted to pay big money for his services. He’s definitely getting the tag.
Nice write up but a there are a few errors which should be checked. If the 9ers lose Brooks they already have a replacement. Aldon Smith will be an every down LB next year and will fill in nicely, Haralson will most likely be the starter on the other side unless he loses the starting spot to another player and 2nd error was Wallace speed, he may be one of the fastest WRs in the league, but I havent seen any player including D Jackson run as fast as Ted Ginn Jr. North-South, his speed is olympic running caliber speed, and far eclipses NFL players speed. Just something to note regardless of what people say about his hands he seems to have much improved in that area
ftg, good to see you come over from the CSNBAY site. PHaralson is steady but not great. He can get beat by the quick or speedy backs turning the corner. I’d rather see LGrant on that side. PHaralson doesn’t offer much of a pass rush so the 9ers would need to find or draft a 3rd down pass rush guy to take PH’s position on those downs.
Agree TGinn is fast but it takes him a while to get there. Not quick or elusive.
Hofer, what makes you think that Larry Grant can all of a sudden become an outside LB? He hasn’t played there since college.
Agreed Hofer
Haralson isn’t an every down LB.
In an interview that Grant posted during the season, Coach Fangio said quite clearly that in their system the 2 olb positions were not interchangeable. Brooks has many more coverage responsibilities than Smith/Harralson. Thus a replacement or backup for Brooks can’t just be a pass rusher. I think a cover/base/blitz guy may be on the shopping list for rounds 4-5. That’s also why I think they retain Brooks.
Yup an why it stymied me that they let Manny walk when they could have cut Haralson and shaved some money toward the Cap. Haralson is probably the most overrated player on the Defense imho. He’s slow to recover against the Run, easily pushed around a liability against the screen and his numbers do not support his contract. 34 COMBINED tackles 2 Sacks, 3 Forced Fumbles. Turnovers are great an all but the Tackles is the stat that stands out. He had 24 Solo and 10 Assists if I remember correctly. That’s an average of 2.15 Tackles a game. 2 of those 34 were for Sack. Aldon Smith saw the field less and had 14 of them for the whole season.
I say Baalke cuts Haralson with prejudice and and give Brooks that money, or at least show Grant some love.
Ceadder,
Haralson did his job by setting the edge and funneling the back to the inside, helping PW and NB with their stats.
With Aldon Smith becoming an every down player the need for Brooks is diminished. They still need to look at adding depth up front on the line, but I think we would be fine to let Brooks walk if his asking price is too high.
With Aldon Smith becoming an every down player the need for Brooks is diminished
I don’t think so. Brooks plays the opposite side from Aldon and its desirable to get QB pressure from both sides. At the moment, there’s nobody proven on the roster who can replace Brooks.
Wow I don’t know if the defense had a weak link last year. I think everyone did their job perfectly. Not everyone can be a pro bowler. It’s a lot harder to stay in line and not try to be a superstar than some think. Haralson doesn’t have Justin smith on his side of the line drawing a lot of attention.
Would be nice if Ginn didn’t have chop sticks for hands. :/
is it this simple – the Steelers dont have cap space? – or is this a player that they dont want to move heaven and earth to keep. Pittsburgh has shown itself to be great at identifying and coaching talent; if they’re letting Wallace go, is there a reason we should be concerned? my vague recollection is that Wallace comes with some significant baggage. something i’m happy for: Baalke and Harbaugh get to make this decision
@fesnyc
The Steelers are not letting Wallace go. The only time a smart team does that (and Pit is smart) is if they have a younger, cheaper guy to take his place.
If not, then your team gets weaker. And weak teams don’t win Super Bowls as frequently as strong teams do.
Can’t agree, DS. Pit is in a bind with their cap and they can only gain so much with restructuring. I think they’ll focus on linemen and they won’t be able to keep MW.
if Pitt really wanted him, they would have found a way to have kept him. this is a team that contends every year, and if they saw Wallace as a keeper they could have set this year up to either franchise him, or by simply jettisoning other talent to clear cap space to keep him. they are not keeping him, because they dont view him as core.
put another way, if the niners had cap problems, they would still find a way to keep willis, j.smith, and VD – veterans with big contracts, but solidly in their prime and absolutely essential to a winning future (and in the NFL, the future is the next 1-3 years)
@brotha
Which linemen?
Steelers OL really does suck. And they weren’t as good this year against the run as they historically have been.
So, which linemen are so critical to resign that makes letting your best offensive weapon walk?
And I don’t think we are on the same wavelength when it comes to the term “let him walk”.
You’re right that Pit is in salary cap hell right now. And that they might not have what Wallace demands. But, I don’t view that as “let him walk.”
I view what the Niners did with Nate Clemonts as “letting him walk”. They never made it clear that they want to pay him his salary he was due in 2011. And nobody was surprised that they did not pursue him. In contrast I think a lot of people would be shocked if Pit did not make a good push at resigning Wallace.
So fesnyc, who does Pitt get to replace him?
If you are thinking draft, that is a big risk. The guy you want may be gone, or you get him and his skills just don’t translate well to what the NFL/Pitt do.
If you are thinkng FA, you’re going to pay a lot for the talent Wallace has, so why not just resign him?
Pitt will not be getting another high priced WR in FA. And won’t be as good next year passing the ball.
DS…i think you’re missing the point
@DS
1/ I agree you and I weren’t using ‘let him walk’ the same way. I think Pit is reluctantly letting him get away, like we did with OG Smiley (Miami). Nate was different; agreed. Now what specifically Pitt is going to do is too arcane for me; I’m not keeping up with TB let alone Pitt! It does seem evident though that they intend to rededicate to the running game. IMO Cassel was brought in at OC to revive the ground game. You need OL to do that and protect Ben. Ben’s game isn’t sophisticated, it’s schoolyard and hence doesn’t need that much coaching, just hogs up front. Also, Pitt wasn’t as good at stopping the run as usual, so D needs big uglies also.
Steelers are 9 million away from hitting the Cap ceiling. They may make another team pay to get Wallace or they may luck out and nobody makes a move on him considering that Pittsburgh could up the price. :|
@fesnyc
Guess I don’t.
:- )
fesnyc,
They don’t have the cap space to place the franchise tag on him, it has nothing to do with not wanting him. They have Emmanuel Sanders and Antonio Brown, and they will face the same situation next year when Brown’s contract is up. They would have to cut players in order to place the franchise tag on Wallace this year.
This article covers the situation: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/21/talk-heats-up-in-pittsburgh-that-mike-wallace-could-leave/
DS & BigP, yes i stand corrected – talked to a longtime diehard Steeler fan today and he not only spoke highly of Wallace but said that he wasnt aware of any concerns about his chemistry with the team, commitment to play, etc. sounds like they just got in a situation analogous to the Niners after their SB run.
my bad!
away from that, my only concern would be getting someone with a bit of size, but we have Morgan coming back (hopefully 100%) and some great TEs, maybe even better if we get Fleener.
Thank you fesnyc for admitting that you were wrong. That takes something. lol
i know…trying to set an example for folks…might make things more thoughtful, fewer virtual – or real – smackdowns :-)
Hof, thanks for bringing up Garçon, I would target Bowe first and then Garçon, if neither happens, draft 2 WR in the first 5 rounds.
Wow, I’ve been forgetting Garçon. I like his game too, and probably won’t command mega$.
First we have wine discussions and now we have folks using the “ç” in Garçon.
We really are reinforcing bad 49ers fan stereotypes.
(I also like Garçon)
Hofe,
I echo Harbaugh’ war cry but with a name change attached to it: Who has it better then Wallace? Nooooobaady! Wallace himself has gone on record as saying that he considers the 49ers (and Patriots) as teams he would be interested in because they are championship caliber teams.
The two big names that I believe could be interchagable are A.Brooks and C.Rodgers. Brooks was not better then his 2010 season and with the emergence of Aldon his star may be losing it’s luster. L.Grant can possibly move to Brooks’ position and be a viable player there.
Rodgers is more tougher for me to lose because of his huge all-pro numbers this season. But after some lackluster years before signing here, how do we really know if Rodgers is going to be playing at the same level or he proves to be a one-hit wonder? Culliver could be our long-term DB and perhaps Tarell Brown continues to improve we have a pair of formatible DB’s. I have no problem relinquishing a #1 pick for a proven commodity even if it requires making a few tough decisions regarding A.Brooks and C.Rodgers.
@AES:
Rogers’ years in Washington were not as lackluster as Redskins fans would have you believe. He is a very good cover corner. His one flaw was dropping interceptions, but everyone overlooks the fact that he put himself in position to make interceptions (i.e., he did not get beat very often). In addition, I read somewhere that Rogers finally relented and was fitted for contacts prior to last year. If that’s true, then his increased interception total is less likely to be a fluke. He also is versatile. He can cover the other teams’ No.1 receivers and can cover the slot on third downs.
Rogers is a much better CB than Brooks is a LB, and I don’t think good teams let go of Pro Bowl CBs if they can help it. If it comes down to keeping one or the other, the choice is easy for me.
Claude,
With all due respect, he should get his money back because his new contacts didn’t work while trying to cover V.Cruz. Our D-line gave our DB’s the ability to cover deep passes because the QB was generally under pressure to throw under duress. But the underneath coverage may have left something to be desired especially in the championship game. If Rodgers did not attain all-pro status in Washington it must be considered lackluster given Washington’ overall bad defense.
@AES:
Be careful drawing lasting conclusions from one half of football. That’s how teams make mistakes. Rogers graded out highly this year. Pro Bowl CBs (and second team all-pros) are rare and valuable commodities.
If Rodgers did not attain all-pro status in Washington it must be considered lackluster given Washington’ overall bad defense.
I’m sorry but that doesn’t make much, if any, sense. Can you rephrase?
Brotha great point, Pitt has bigger needs and I don’t think Wallace deserves a big money contract. Yes he’s fast and young but guys like him can be found in the draft. Niners should take best available player at 30 if they don’t get Bowe or Garçon in free agency.
I’m coming back towards that opinion too, Prime. I love MW’s game, but draft choices are going to be a better bargain due to the new rookie cap.
If this draft is deep in linemen as I’ve read, there may be a value BPA at 30. I won’t panic if they trade back out of 30 for multiples as long as we get 2 #2s.
Man! TB keeps us guessing! 2 Long Snappers? LOL
Yeah, Pitt has a bunch of Stars and they’ve been paying them. It adds up.
Definitely disagree with this. It would be like having a Lamborgini in the garage without enough money to pay for gas. One of Alex’s worst qualities is his arm. It is weak, don’t know what you people have been watching the last 6 years if you don’t at least think it is below average. And Wallace’s bread and butter is down the field. Just not a great fit.
Why do some people think Larry Grant could move to OLB, just because he played some of it in college. He only weighs 235lbs, thats way too lite to play that position in the 3-4. Haaralson is 255lbs and Adlon I think is 258lbs and growing, meanwhile Brooks is 258lbs, that’s almost a 20 pound difference between 3 guys that played the position, held the edge well and rushed the passer quite well. No sorry, Grant is too small to to move to OLB. One of our strengths on our defense was stopping the run and to play the edge, you gotta be stout, that means size!
The 9er website has LG at 251 lbs. I endorse moving him to the outside but it is a small percentage that it happens. Good discussion though.
Oh, and the best line in the article is- often Alex looks like he is throwing the ball as far as he can when he throws down field, thus proving my point.
Brotha for the Niners moving forward their success will be based on how the continuity continues and grows on offense but getting one key playmaker at the WR position is critical. If that means trading up and gettin a Blackmon or Floyd that’s not a bad decision. If TB trades down and acquires more picks to help out depthwise, that’s also a good decision.
I believe JH will get the NINERS offense into the top 10 next year. He might not go out and get anyone in free agency or they could spend lavishly, either way, they know what their doing.
It’s a lot easier to have faith ( in JH) as 49er Faithful than it has been in years! I agree though, they can’t just shrug off the need at WR and hope something happens. But shrugging and hoping aren’t what we’ve seen or come to expect from the current group.
I agree that Mr. Goldson and Mr. Brooks are must signs. Mr. Rogers although I would love to have him back I think he goes where the money is. That means Mr. Minnifield round 2. Mr. Baalke has many, many options at the WR position unlike last year. I would like to see him sign one of these options prior to the draft.
@claude, Rodgers is 30 years old, I thought he played well but I would hate to see him be the next Nate Clements. If the choice is pay Brooks or Rodgers I would pay Brooks only because we have no one waiting in the wings at OLB. Culliver and Brock could be opening day starters in nickel packages.
@Prime
Sorry, but I think quality cover corners are more valuable and harder to find than 3-4 OLBs with average pass rush skills, particularly when the corner is a Pro Bowler/All Pro. If you have to choose (and I do not know if the team has to choose), I don’t think you field the better team by keeping an average player over a superior player.
Also, I do not think that the dropoff from Brooks to a replacement level player is as great as the drop from Rogers-Brown to Brown-Culliver or the drop from Rogers-Brown-Culliver to Brown-Culliver-Brock.
And who is waiting in the wings to cover the slot? Brock? That’s a big dropoff.
Then again, it really doesn’t matter what we think. Baalke, Harbaugh and Fangio have earned our trust. I am comfortable with the thought of them being in charge of these decisions.
Gotta agree with Claude here as well.
If you have an average OLB in a 3-4 defense, that fact alone won’t hurt you too much.
But, if you have an average CB, then that can hurt you. If a OLB makes a mistake, he generally has the secondary to help cover for that mistake.
If a CB makes a mistake, there is often nobody between the offensive player and the endzone to cover up that mistake.
OK Claude, but remember that last season was Brooks first year as a starting OLB and he was originally an ILB before Singletary moved him. If you think Brooks was average, I’m wondering what you’d consider Haralson??? If Brooks gets away this year after they let Lawson go last year, I’d say Haralson must have some major dirt on somebody in the Niner org. because he just doesn’t make many plays. That being said I hope they can keep both Brooks and Rogers but I’d be a little hesitant about giving any player a big contract after just one good year but I agree with you that BH&F will make the right decision. They seem to have a pretty good idea of what they’re doing. LOL
CB Grimes from Atlanta might be interesting in FA. I’ve read he’s a little irritated with the front office. He’s young & feisty & pretty good if Rogers bolts.
WE must sign all the defense from last year,plus another pass rusher,to complete the defense,
The offense ,we need the guard,and a third down possesion reciever,
an experienced WR.
That will put us in the playoffs,then who knows,but remember that other
teams will improve,
Even if you move Grant outside, who comes inside? You still need to add depth at the total LB position.
You do not replace a 3 down linebacker who can set the edge and stop the run like Mr. Brooks very easily. No F/A I know about, and I would not trust the draft. He was a big part of our run defense. I love Mr. Rogers, but Mr. Brooks must come first IMHO. Godfather Fangio believes Brown, Culliver, Brock are the future and I trust him. More than a few F/A corners out there as well. As I’ve stated before, I would target Mr. Minnifield in round 2 if he’s still there.
“Godfather Fangio” is perfect. Thanks for the chuckle.
I also like Brooks the most of the 49ers free agents on defense but he might get some crazy offers. Teams are as desperate for pass rushers as they are for quarterbacks.
Claude,
No debate regarding Rodgers all-pro status this year. But after being Washintons 9th overall pick in the draft he never really established himself as a ‘keeper’ type or 1st tier DB. Washinton’s D has actually been good over the last few years with the exception of 2010 when they finished at 31 in overall team defense ranking.
My contention with Rodgers is that aside from this banner year, there has not been anything of significence in his previous years to warrant a ‘huge’ payday IMO. The great play of our D-line and LB corps this past season made life a little more better for our DB’ then in recent years. Having QB’ throw under a heavy pass rush all season paved the way for quite a few Int’ don’t you agree?
“Having QB’ throw under a heavy pass rush all season paved the way for quite a few Int’ don’t you agree?”
Anybody would agree to that AES.
No secondary is going to hold up without a pass rush. And this year, the Niners had a good one.
But, you can’t just dismiss what CR did in the process either. That isn’t fair. How many sacks came this year because CR had his guy covered? And, how well did he read the QB, and know the play due to hours of film study so that he could jump routes. Either to Intercept, knock the ball away, or prevent the QB from throwing the ball when he wanted to and as a result getting sacked? That had nothing to do with pass rush. That is all him. And not just anybody can do that. Especially a guy who was brand new to the team and Fangio.
And what do we actually know about what CR is really looking for anyway? Has Grant found that out yet?
I have to believe (although, as you note he hasn’t provided any numbers), that he will look for a 3-4 yr deal with what is commensurate to an all-pro type pay scale.
I’m just not particularly sold on a ‘big’ contract based on one good year. Especially if it nullifies any finacial opportunity to go after a M.Wallace. As I mentioned before, his previous seasons were probably considered just a bit above average, nothing remotely close to what he did this year.
AES,
Wallace is too expensive anyway based on the reports I have seen. We would be better served to go after a guy like Colston for a bit less, draft a WR in the middle rounds and use the money that otherwise would have gone to Wallace to either help re-sign Rogers or go after a FA like Carr.
@AES
“I’m just not particularly sold on a ‘big’ contract based on one good year. ”
Where does DG fit in to this statement? He’s been in the league several years as well, and until this year was not impressing anybody. Look no further than the fact that NOBODY called him to come in to play safety for them during the FA period.
Now, everybody is clamoring for him to be franchised.
Those two lines of thinking (DG’s one good year is shows more than CR one good year) are not fluid AES. And, CR had other suitors last offseason as well. So, bear this in mind.
@AES:
We’ll just have to disagree on this one. I think Rogers was underrated while he was in Washington and that he regularly was better than “just a bit above average.” I agree that last year was his best year, and there is always the possibility that it was a one-time contract year thing, but I doubt it. I just have trouble with people blithely assuming that the 49ers will not miss him much if he leaves (I am not saying that description applies to you).
And I sincerely hope that the rest of the NFL views Rogers as you do. That would help keep his market value down, and make it more likely that he will re-sign.
Now, if you told me we could sign Brandon Carr for the same money we would have to spend out for Rogers (or just a little more), that idea has some appeal.
But letting Rogers go so that we can chase Wallace (again, I am not sure it is an either/or thing) does not appeal to me. I value the CB position more than the WR position – for at least two reasons. One, the relatively recent changes favoring passing have made quality CBs even more valuable (mediocre guys have no chance) and have devalued quality WRs (WRs don’t need to be as talented to put up big numbers). Two, you can scheme around limited physical abilities on your offense, but good teams will find a way to expose your defensive liabilities.
I got that last one from Bill Walsh.
Okay, that’s too much talk from me. I am happy to let Baalke and Harbaugh assemble the team and will be happy to observe them do it.
MM on Comcast is smoking with good Niner information, they are not going to sign Brooks on a big contract and Harbaugh and Balke will be talking to the media tomorrow. Not having Grant going to the combine is a big mistake on the latest information. Check out the column if you have not see it,http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-san-francisco-niners
“Big” Money contract is the key. If Brooks wants the lottery then they will have no choice but to let him go, but make no mistake they want him…at a fair price. Keeping my fingers crossed.
I like Maiocco’s Pierre Garcon idea. Garcon is similar to Wallace without the huge price tag. The dude nearly had 1000 yards with Curtis Painter throwing the ball.
I strongly disagree with the idea that Haralson is the replacement for Brooks. If anything, Haralson is overpaid and should be dropped to make cap room for a better player.
Trent Richardson is having his knee scoped prior to the Combine. Could he tumble?
I like Wallace, but I think I would rather sign Robert Meachum. Both receivers offer similar speed. While Wallace may be a little faster, Meachum is a little bigger. Not to mention that he will come a whole lot cheaper allowing us to attempt to resign more of our deffensive players. With the Saints Meachum was never more than the 4th or 5th option. Let’s see what he can do as a top 3 option with us.
Meacham=Alvin Harper
No, Meachem=Ashley Lilly
In a pass happy system, Meachems production has been really disappointing. Why would that change all of a sudden in the Niners run heavy offense?
A number 3 option does not appease the need for a number 1 WR. Wallace is not as big as Meachem, but even with his smaller stature (than RM), he instantly becomes our number 1 WR and propels us to a strong SB contention status.
Wallace recently said that the 49ers and Pats would be strong considerations, but he may be posturing in order to get phat money from the Steelers? Either way this swings, I still find the whole notion of Wallace very intriguing.
If the Niners go for defense with the first pick, a name to keep in mind is Nick Perry, DE, USC. Perry will be an excellent fit for the 3-4 and is monster of a pass rusher.
@NickRow
I disagree with your assumption about the 49er ‘run heavy’ system; last year, Harbaugh didn’t have a choice of pass/run because of the lockout and no OTA’s he had to play the cards he was dealt…I believe that this year we’re going to see a lot of passing and more wide-open offense. The real treat is that we’ll finally get to see the second half of the playbook.
Also, I believe, as you do that Nick Perry is a DE that would be amazing in Red and Gold….that said, he’s going to be so highly rated that we’d never fit him under the cap…I DO agree though…He’s good.
@Oregon
That may be, but I’m still not sold on Meachem. He didn’t put up big numbers in New Orleans. What are his chances of improving his production in SF?
Another DE/OLB to watch is Whitney Mercilus of Illinois. He
led the nation in sacks (16) and forced fumbles (nine) last year.
@Nick
I believe that the reason that Meacham didn’t have fantastic numbers in NO, is because they have so many quality receivers, and they spread it around…even to the backs.
Your an idiot if you think giving up Carlos roders is a Good trade I say they resign Carlos Rodgers n Amhad Brooks n see wat cap space they got n give Wallace whats left
I dont know much but i know this, defense wins championsship and offense sells ticket and given the fact that good CB is much harder to find than good WR i would take Rodgers any day of the week before Wallace.
Remember that Bill Walsh said that the longest play he had in his playbook was 40 yards, so if you dont have a fast WR who can strecht the field then you have to settle with a big guy like a Tight end or a BIG WR who not might be fast but big so you can use him in short yardage throws.
It would be foolish to loose Rodgers and put the strength of of the defense at stake.
The only way at would sign Wallace is, if we can have him for at fair price keeping our defense intact.
Ok, where do I begin?
There are so many things that I agree with and several that leave me smh!
1) Alex Smith, for all of you non-believers regarding AS and the deep ball discussion. It’s all in the perception of the fans and the truth with the coaching staff (do you really believe that JH/TB would want to keep AS if they thought he couldn’t make all of the throws?)
2) when the 9er WR’s get better AS will get better. Up to this point AS has had 1 very good year (2011) and 1 good Year (2006), both of those years he took every snap and he had excellent OC’s and for the most part the team was successful (2006/ 8-8/ 1 game out of the play-offs) (2011 speaks for itself). The WR’s were decent, not great just decent (similar to this year).
3) 3rd down ineffectiveness (total team effort, coaches and players alike).
4) RZ ineffectiveness (see # 3) play calling was the least imaginative in the RZ (who on this board didn’t know that on 1st down 9ers were running, 2nd down was run/pass option 3rd down was pass) not hard to defend.
5) MW, V-Jax, D-Jax etc and the Salary Cap, I believe that the 9er FO will keep to their master plan no matter who is out there. I think they will take into consideration not only talent and salary but how the player fits into the 9er locker room (if the person is a head case I don’t see them being a 9er.)
6) AS and the long ball, guys/ladies it doesn’t matter how far you throw it; it matters if you throw it on time (I find it hard to believe that AS can’t get the ball to the fast WR but he can get the ball to the faster TE) on several occasions I’ve seen WR’s run themselves out of a reception by running too close to the sideline or by not getting back into their route after being re-routed (resulting in some throw-aways that I sure the coaching staff is aware of and yes AS does throw some bad passes (but what QB in the NFL doesn’t)
7) 9er FA’s to keep:
Must resign- Alex Smith, Dashon Goldson, Carlos Rogers, Larry Grant, Ahmad Brooks, Blake Castonzo, CJ Spillman, Adam Snyder, Josh Morgan.
Could still help- Ted Ginn Jr, Tavares Gooden, and Tramaine Brock
Solutions: It’s obvious that the 9ers now have a competent Coaching Staff and front office. I believe that this Coaching staff and the FO will get the best out of all of these players and their FA signing and Draft picks. The 9ers got more from their team than others because they all worked together and now that they have tasted the playoffs they want more, so baring a rash of injuries or just a breakdown of the entire team, I believe that the team can not only make the play-offs but win the SB within the next 4 years and with AS at QB!
Teams that have QB’s who throw for 4500-5000 yards are generally 1 dimensional teams and how many of them have won SB’s (not many), so the team is on the right track and if you are as Faithful as you claim to be, you will sit back and enjoy what I believe will be a resurgence of greatness in the upcoming years!!!
@True9erFan
I love all your points.
Especially #6. I have commented on that a few times trying to get a discussion going on that manner, but nobody wanted to discuss it. They only focused on the QB not completing the pass. Not the WR’s role in the pass attempt.
MC when he made that great catch in Seattle, I noticed how much space he left AS to play with on the sideline. Most of the sideline passes this year, I feel that the WR was too close to the sideline and only a perfect pass could get it in there. AS delivered one such perfect pass to VD against the Giants. But no QB can deliver a perfect deep sideline (really sideline) pass every time.
How many deep passes were completed against the Niners last season? How many of those became TD’s? The point being that no other QB was throwing perfect darts along the sideline all game long. So, don’t expect AS too.
@TruninerFan
Well said, and by a real Fortyniner Faithful!
@ True9erFan
how many of them have won SB’s ?
The last three Super Bowls were won by such QBs (Manning, Rodgers, Brees).
Did anyone else catch Harbaugh playing equipment manager at the IU basketball game? In full 49ers gear, picking up chairs after a timeout.
After all of the hub bub caused by AS carrying his bag at Pebble I am surprised no one has commented yet.
I think it is awesome and shows what a humble gym rat he is. When was the last time you have seen an NFL coach of the year doing something like that?
I hate all this talk about the Niners drafting Fleener. If the Niners use their first pick on him it would be a mistake. With the 1st round pick you must go after a position of need.
If you do that Adam you will not take the best player available in many cases and that is a bigger mistake than taking a player who is superior in talent at a position that is not a big need.
I’m also not convinced that it is not a need. Walker is signed for one more year and really is not the big threat in the passing game we seem to view him as. He is a good situational player but if you look at what the Pats have with Gronk and Hernandez, Walker is not that type of player opposite Davis. Fleener would be.
You also have to take into account the fact Harbaugh uses multiple TE’s regularly and after Davis and Walker we have?? Byham coming back from knee surgery? Konrad Ruland who was a practice squad player?
I don’t know who the BPA will be at #30, but if they deem it to be Fleener they should take without hesitation imo.
@Adam707:
With the 1st round pick you must go after a position of need.
I have to agree with rocket. Your philosophy leads to teams reaching for players, and signing guys who are pretty good instead of guys who are great, or better. I think you build a better team if you fill it with more great players.
Later on, a team can draft for need, but in the first round, you almost always should take the great player, if one is available, over a lesser player at a position of need. Of course, if the great player is at a position of need (see Aldon Smith), then the decision is easy.
@adam position of need like 3rd down receiver/ red zone receiver that sounds exactly like fleener to me
All of this talk about getting rid of Crabtree is ridiculous. What’s the reasoning to get rid of him? The fact is it makes our receiving core immediately worse.
I don’t see that.
1. Our WR’s stank big time last year. How much worse can they get?
2. MC is at best average. He is a posession WR who drops way too many balls, so how good of a posession WR is he? Battle held onto the ball better and got hmself open more, and he was a college QB.
3. MC had 8 playoff quarters. He stank in the last 7. By comparison look at the Giants WR’s. How many quarters did they stink?
4. How often does MC get doubled? How often when VD is split out wide? Defenses are not worried about MC at all. They worry about VD. I’m not going to be all gung-ho for keeping a guy who the defenses don’t fear, can’t get seperation from the CB, doesn’t go to TC, does not blame himself for the Giants game loss, and was the only player who did not talk “team” after the game. I can assure you JH sat down with MC and discussed this with him sometime later.
5. What does MC bring to the table that the Niners don’t already have, or can find for less?
6. Why are people more inclined to want to get rid of Adam Snyder than MC? When Snyder was not in there, or hurt, it had ahuge impact on the OL pass protection. So, why don’t people value him as being more critical?
Crabtree has gotten better every year he’s been here. And as many drops he’s had his quarterback had bad throws his way. I seen Crabtree open a lot. And he did drop some passes aaaaand he wasn’t even looked at sometimes. Crabtree like some use the dropped balls excuse should have had more td’s and broken 1000 yards. See it works both ways. Crabtree if and when smith gets better field vision WILL break 1000 yards and will make you eat your words about being a possession receiver. You watch! Then smith and crabbs will be a very dangerous tandem. You’ll see!
DS,
Why don’t you just say, “I hate Michael Crabtree!” It’s obvious that you just don’t like the guy and will go to any length to trash him. He is young and has gotten better every year in the league despite facing the same obstacles that you love to trot out for Alex-bad coaching, new offensive system, no offseason, etc. There is absolutely no reason to get rid of him.
Just like last year with Alex, this is the year Crabtree needs to redefine himself to his teammates, fans, and coaches and prove he is a bonafide WR in the NFL.
Alex came out and proved it last year, now Crabtree with all the harsh criticism needs to come out and do the same next year. Theres no doubt he is talented, the thing that has dogged Crabtree has been his inability to stay healthy, conveniently during the past 3 traning camps, speed, dropped balls, and attitude. I think he has the capability to prove a lot of people wrong, just like Alex did. You dont give up on him just yet.
@ninermd
And if MC had produced in the playoffs, I wouldn’t care. Know why? Because he showed up in the big games in the big moments.
AS did. VD did. MC did not.
@BigP
Better players have been dumped by their teams due to attitude issues. And a bunch more who were not elite guys but blaming their teammates for their own failures have come and gone. Also, you are such a fan of my previous posts. Go back a few posts to my February 13, 2012 at 2:45 pm in the Bay Area sports franchises in descending order of importance (Lowell column) blog subject.
I explain my attitudes/ideas towards MC there rather well. And, you will find a lot of things that you say, I also said. But at the end of the day the Niners weakest area on the team is WR, and I guess we just think differently on the matter. If you have a good/great/why did we get rid of that WR, then it would not be such a huge area of need for us this year. And, as you and Jack love to point out, he lead the WR group.
If you’re a leader, (and MC is the leader of the WR’s) and the thing you are leading sucks, chances are you not very good or at the least you will not stay around for long if you continue with that kind of production. If you are a manager at work, and your department which you are leading is so far behind in production next to every other department, and you point fingers at everybody else for why that is so, then I’m sorry. You are not going to be backed up, and you should think about a different job.
That seems pretty reasonable to me.
He couldn’t handle the pressure of the playoffs. I don’t think he can handle what he needs to handle to become an elite WR on this team.
DS
MC is our best receiver and you think we should get rid of him? I have thought a lot of what you say is correct but get rid of Crabtree? Lets add another play maker not get rid of one!
Waterman
Something along the way was lost in all this.
I say to get rid of MC if you need to dump him to get a much better player. This blog subject was on Wallace, and I think Wallace is worth getting at the expense of MC if it came to that.
Then people were all wanting MC no matter what. And I brought up the question of what does MC bring to the table that is so substantially better than what JM brings? And JM will come a lot cheaper, and longer (will sign a new contract this year) than MC will. And, I have not seen anybody write anything substantial to answer that question. Look at MC’s salary yourself. He is going to be paid some pretty big time money very soon, and is he worth it?
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/michael-crabtree/
And if you can’t really get a nice list going, then is MC worth keeping just for the sake of keeping him over a guy who will make defenses fear our WR core? Because right as of this moment, no secondary is scared of any of our WR’s.
To be fair if Alex hadnt overthrown MC so many times MC would have had about 200-300 more yards and probably 5 more TD’s. Yes i agree that he does dropp alot of passes but i believe he will fix that. As far as the “he doesn’t create space” argument, its ridiculous. I have seen Crabtree running open countless times and Alex doesnt see him. Yes i know that happens so im not going to hold that against Alex. I just find it funny how so many of you will defend every negative thing said against Alex, as if nothing is ever his fault, yet you are so quick to throw MC under the bus. We trade him or release him and we will be sorry
+1
It works both ways – AS missed on some throws and MC dropped some easy catches – they will work it out. The production will be better with more playmakers coming back from injury and a FA WR.
“Yes i agree that he does dropp alot of passes but i believe he will fix that.”
How? I get that JR dropped a lot of passes in his first few games, but MC has done so consistently for 3 years now. Can that really improve, or does he just have that problem?
“I have seen Crabtree running open countless times… ”
And during the NFC Title game a HOF QB was up there calling the game and said repeatedly all game long how the Niner WR’s were not getting open downfield leaving AS in a bind time and time again. So, I’m going with the opinion of a HOF QB who has 3 Super Bowls over any of us when it comes to analzying/assigning blame in that game. Even if he is a Cowboy.
I don’t care if MC was open a lot in a game where we are blowing the other team out. I don’t need my #1 WR to do that. I need him to get open in big games in big moments. MC did not against guys who are not going to be confused with elite CB’s anytime soon.
An analogy would be when we brought in Deion Sanders that last Super Bowl year. We didn’t bring in Deion to beat up some bad QB/WR combo and make them look foolish in games where we would have won without Deion. We brought him in here for 2 games. The regular season game with the Cowboys and the NFC Title game with the Cowboys. And, had he looked bad in the NFC title game, then I wouldn’t have cared at all about how great he looked beating some pathetic team who didn’t stand a chance against us when the schedule was made.
I agree. He had his best year as a niner. He is not going anywhere just like Alex is not going anywhere.
To answer DS about JM and Crabtree. I hope josh recovers enough to continue his career in an arrow up way. Everyone says he was going to have a breakout year but we will never know if he will be as good or better than Crabtree until they start playing. I want both. But a good starting point is Crabtree, JM, draft a second rounder and pick up a good value FA. Hows that sound?
1. MC’s foot has still not recovered after 3 years. It might not ever recover to the point he had it in college. All indications I have heard up to this point is that JM injury will not impact him this coming season.
2. As long as we come into the season with a WR who makes defenses 2 team him and he still can get open, and if they have a brain aneurism and fail to 2 cover him once, he will make them pay for it with a big play TD, I’m all in. The Niners offense is easy to defend. 2-team VD, and keep 8 men in the box. For the Niners to get better offensively,they need to take teams out of that simple formula to stop them. And I think an elite WR will do it and is worth a price.
I just don’t know if the Niners will be able to draft that guy and have him have that kind of impact, or get a FA WR who can do that.
Not trying to be a jerk waterman,.
But, that was not a list of things that MC can do better. It was more a list (if that) of hope that Morgan does not have any lingering effects from his injury.
Hardly a ringing endorsement to keep MC around if Wallace comes a knocking.
i think the only thought behind getting rid of crabtree is to clear salary cap space. he is getting #1 receiver money and so far producing at the rate of a good #2 if cutting him clears enough cap room maybe they could sign someone like wallace
Old Coach, The strong pro-Smith contingent keeps saying that the reason AS had some difficulty is due to the lack of production from the receivers. Based on that why would you want to get rid of the leading receiver just to save about $1m in cap space? Wouldn’t you want to build around that player by adding weopons?
Here is an idea. Maybe Alex should be willing to reduce the amount of money he is seeking with his new deal to save that $1m so that he can show everyone that he can lead the team to the Super Bowl. From what I have seen Alex, being the great TEAM guy that he is should have no problem with that instead right?
“strong pro-Smith contingent keeps saying that the reason AS had some difficulty is due to the lack of production from the receivers.”
Jack, pro or anti AS doesn’t matter, look at ESPN, Network.com, etc, etc, and they all point to the fact the 9ers weakest position is WR. Of course have a weak receiving group (injury attributed) does affect the QB and the best WR (MC) production. That is why many mock drafts see the 9ers drafting a receiver.
Hofer, you missed the point of that whole response. I was simply saying that the pro-Smith guys always blame the receivers, and I get that. Besides Crabtree and Davis there wasn’t anyone to consistently throw the ball to, which I can agree with to a point.
The idea came up from someone that the 49ers should cut Crabtree to make more salary cap space to go after Mike Wallace. This move would save about $1m on the cap after the penalty.
My point was, instead of cutting the best receiver currently on your roster you should add to it, and since AS is the great TEAM player the pro-Smith guys think he is, that he should be willing to step up and take a little less on HIS contract to help out. Steve Young used to do it all the time.
Jack, I hear you I just don’t like the pro-Smith sentiment angle. There are extremists here on both sides that just use the AS debate to make it a personal battle. Most want AS to play better and believe he can. Same with MC. He started with the holdout that some still hold against him and his body language/attitude suggest that he isn’t always about team. This will be the year that MC and AS create the chemistry that will grow over the years and the offensive production will shine because of it. Stay tuned..
Thanks Hofer. Agree with the hope that Smith and MC can continue improving together.
Coach
‘Fact of the matter is, no one will cut Crabtree except Crabtree. When TB talks to him, it will become clear to MC that he needs to take a cut in pay or find another team. He may not have known it as a rookie, but after 3 years, he has seen what is expected of a #1 WR for which he has been paid, but has not produced. With Morgan back, and a field stretcher on the other side, I believe that MC can become ‘great’ not good in the slot.
Oregoniner;
“When TB talks to him, it will become clear to MC that he needs to take a cut in pay or find another team.”
Can you elaborate on this Oregoniner? I personally don’t see how TB is going to convince our top WR to take a pay cut. This type of conversation has all the makings of a clear insult to Crabtree. Sorry, but I’m confused by your logic on this one. I’m really interested on your reasoning here. At face value, your logic makes more sense to ask VD, JM, and TGjr to take pay cuts.
They aren’t going to cut Crabtree. It makes no sense on any level. They don’t save much if they cut him and the kid just had the best season of his career and was lauded by his Coaches for his selflessness and blocking downfield. If anything he’ll become a bigger part of the offense going forward.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/San-Francisco-49ers-Alex-Smith-contract-status-022312
@jack if cutting crabtree will only save 1 millon then its a no brainer you keep crabtree and i dont base my opinions on the mindless drivel coming from the pro or anti smith camps. i’ve been a niner fan to long to care about the stupid qb arguments that have been going on for ever
I think it’s very short sighted to ever say that a team “needs” a particular player when what you really mean is that they need a position filled by a player with strong skill sets for the position. Especially a position like WR and in a year like this to think that there is ONE player that we should focus on or write the big check for is immature.
In fact given his contract demands and that there will be more attractive competition for his services(Patriots) I’d say he is a player that we absolutely don’t need because the cost to acquire him will outweigh his value to the team.
We are far better served going after a Colston, Jackson, Robinson etc. Don’t take it as a personal opinion of Wallace but of his value considering what it will take to get him.
Crabtree had a very good second half of the season, he caught many of the high throws but also had some drops. We just remember that he was a no show in the play-offs. In reality he should be a third receiver and play in the slot, and should of never been a top 10 receiver, we need two big ass fast ball breaking, playmakers and game changers. Crabtree is not, he is more like a 40 year old Jerry Rice a possession receiver.
Crabtree deserves the benefit of the doubt here, he’s young, talented, and had to learn a new offensive system, you could say the same thing about every 49er player so the jury is still out on this guy.
The one thing concerning to me is the playoffs tell you a lot about players. Who performs at the highest level and who crumbles under pressure, Crabtree did not show up in both playoff games, that’s concerning.
If MC’s attitude and approach to the game and if he had attended TC all this time were a lot better, I would agree.
But, the fact is that his attitude is bad. And his playoff performance was bad. If he repeats that again next year, we will fail to win the Super Bowl if he is our #1 WR. There is a window here for the Niners that they can’t just pass up because MC had his best season yet which is still average and didn’t show up in the playoffs. Tough decsions need to be made. If they are the right ones, we can easily be talking about our 6th trophy this time next year.
And, assuming MC is here next year, I am holding him to the same standard I am AS and the offense and the rest of the team. Win in the playoffs. If the Niners don’t then they need to look at the areas that need the most improvement. And if that is WR again, and MC is still our #1, then we would have wasted a year.
KW by comparison had an awful game as well. But, he conducted himself a lot better than MC did, and that is a big reason why I never went on a KW sucks post. KW was pretty much a rookie, and the possibility of him getting better is higher than it is for MC in my view.
DS94everXev says:
February 23, 2012 at 2:47 pm
If MC’s attitude and approach to the game and if he had attended TC all this time were a lot better, I would agree…
Just now getting around to some post over the last couple of days.
Once again DS, you continue to slant Crabtree with your inaccurate remarks.
Where exactly is your evidence and proof of Craptree’ bad attitude and bad game preparation? Do you only trust and confide in Harbaugh’ endorsement of Alex, but fail to take his words at face value when speaking positively of Craptree?
And if I recall, Craptree had foot surgery before training camp, that OBTW, likely would have been quite painful for him to plant and run routes don’t you agree?
You’ve made it quite clear of your feelings towards Crabtree and in the total scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter. Like it, or lump it, Crabtree like Alex, will be YOUR starter in 2012. Get on board with Harbaugh’ endorsements of his players, even the ones you don’t particularly care for.
It’ about TEAM DS, ROOT FOR TEAM!
Why would anyone continue to discuss football with DS, they eventually will stop as he or she does not think that Dan Fouts and Dan Marino are elite QB’s because they never won a Super Bowl, both of these guys are top 10 QB’s Hall of Famers, who gives a pimple on a pig’s ass what she thinks about Michael Crabtree.
Keep the current nucleus of this team together first and foremost.
Re-sign as many as we can, Goldson, Rogers, Brooks, Morgan, Smith, etc etc,
Follow the model of the most successful franchises in history, i.e Packers, Steelers and Patriots of recent years, and the Steelers of the 70′s, Niners of the 80′s, Cowboys of the 90′s. Meaning do not blow big bucks in free agency. Giving players massive contracts can and usually does (with few exceptions) lead to lower motivation and effort from that player, otherwise known as the disease of more (e.g Albert Haynesworth). Much better to sign players who have that lovely combination of talent and a point to prove (e.g Carlos Rogers) . And yes i know that there are always exceptions, (who would forget Deion in 94, and Ken Norton Jr.) but that was pre salary cap, Premier players don’t hit the market very often, I don’t see any this year, and haven’t seen any since Peppers, Asomugha i think was overrated, good player, but teams didn’t need to challenge him in order to beat the Raiders, so the perception of him became overblown.
Given that i beleive that continuity is the single most important factor to the formation of a dynasty (and lets be honest, as niner fans that is the only truly acceptable standard to which we should aspire) I’d much rather see the team spend the majority of it’s cap space keeping the current team together, and then supplementing the core talent with depth players (i.e Meachem) and then continuing to build through the draft. If a dynasty we are to build then the draft we have to master! that is the key, not throwing millions of dollars at players in free agency! Continuity is loyalty, and what could be a worse example of loyalty than a player whoreing himself out to the highest bidder.
So no, please don’t throw $10m+ at Mike Wallace, it’s too much, and the loss of the draft pick just makes it worse. Master the draft, and the Super Bowls will follow. It’s how the Steelers became dominant in the 70′s, It’s how Bill Walsh created the dominant Niners teams in the 80′s, and as painful as it is to write, It’s how Jimmy Johnson put together the Cowboys in the 90′s. Draft well, draft really well, and let the dumb teams blow their money stroking the ego’s of players who are in it for the money.
@AES
With your kind permission, I would like to get back to you on that; ‘NOT DODGING, but reading the comments after ours, I don’t want to seem as though I’m piling on. Please reply….
No problem Oregoniner;
I was only responding to your comment about TB having a convo with Crabtree about taking a cut in pay or being dismissed from the team. With all due respect, why should Crabtree take a pay cut when he was the teams leading Receiver. Yes, he had a poor outing against the Giants, but I don’t to see how that warrants a pay cut.
I stand corrected if I misunderstood your comments.
@AES
Thanks for the opportunity. My statement was not to denigrate MC and his improvement, but that he was signed initially at a price that he was incapable of performing up to; that of a #1 go-to guy. That he was our ‘top receiver’ pales in the fact that he was just about ‘the last one standing’. With Morgan’s unfortunate injury, and BE’s meltdown, MC was the only front-line WR left. Ginn was hurt much of the last half of the season, etc. It is not an irregular thing to have ANY position player be asked to “take one (cut) for the team”. In that MC improved, but did not excel, I merely stated that IMHO, TB would be asking MC to take a cut to help us under the cap to sign a quality WR. NOT to replace MC, but to open the field up for him. I’m as excited about MC in the slot as I was when they signed him. I am convinced that the breakaway speed that’s required of WR’s is one part of the game that MC just doesn’t have. As a slot receiver, however I believe he can be ‘Aces”. I hope that makes sense….
Crabs should be a great #2 receiver for us for years to come.We are lucky to have him.
I don’t know if Wallace is the right WR for us or not,as long as whoever we get as the #1 is tall and can reach up way high and snag those high throws and as long as he is very flexable and can reach way down and pick those throws in the dirt off the grass before they touch the ground and as long as that flexability allows him to reach way behind him to catch all the errant throws,then I don’t care which WR we draft. If he can actually run routes and get seperation and has speed along with the other attributes I mentioned,then that is just gravy and we should trade way up to get him,because that is the only kind of receiver that will improve the passing stats for the offense.
DS: Crabs played really good when he was healthy. NOBODY has ever hitned that he did not work very hard and have a team attitude,at least nobody that actually knew him. He had a very good year and should be one of the best #2 receivers in the League for years to come,imho.
I agree about Williams,he is very good .
They both had a poor Championship game(along with the QB that is supposed to get them the ball) but played well during the regular season…and if the QB had seen either of them running free (along with Walker) instead of being afraid to throw and holding the ball or dumping it off short,etc.,,we would have had at least 1 and probably 2 and maybe 3 more TD’s in that game,and nobody would remember Williams fumbles or Crabs disappearing act because we would now have our 6th Lombardi trophy .
We need a #1 receiver to go with Crabs,I agree with that . Add Williams and VD etc and we will have a great receiving corps.
And the QB will get somewhat better this year imho,so it’s all good,if we get a playmaker as #1 WR.
*Please excuse and forgive the misspelling on Crabtree’ name.
I see your point Oregoniner, but except for not meeting what could be the numbers and criteria for a number one receiver he did lead the team in receptions. Like Alex, who did not have huge passing yards because our offense is not a wide open type which calls for only safe and less risk, Crabtree’ numbers must be measured by the same scheme.
But like you I also believe that Crabtree is a slot receiver who can catch the occasional long ball.
@AES
Agreed…One thing one cannot deny Crabtree; he has hands. I’d love to see him concentrate more on some of those drops, but as a slot receiver,he and AS can open up the middle of the field like a can of beans, and we’ll NEVER see 8 in the box again. I love this ‘team’ game!
I’m sure that Crabtree will go into the off season knowing that he is on the radar. It has to irk him that the team is looking for a #1 type receiver. But at the same time, I hope that it also motivates him to grab the bull by the horns and help him take his game to a higher level.
I don’t believe that all the accolades and college awards were a farce. Crabtree is a talent that is yet to be fully untapped, and I hope the 2012/2013 season is his season of redemption just as this past season was for Alex.