I had a gut feeling about the 49ers’ pass distribution, so I checked it out. I don’t believe any other analyst has noticed this.
Michael Crabtree leads the team in targets with 31 – almost a third more than Vernon Davis, who’s in second place with 22.
There’s more.
The 49ers’ first pass has gone to Crabtree in three of the first four games. And there’s even more.
The 49ers’ first third-down pass has gone to Crabtree in two of the first four games.
As I watch the games, the choice of plays leads me to believe that Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh are deliberately attempting to make Crabtree their No.1 go-to-guy. It just sticks out in my mind how it is almost a scripted attempt to get him the ball first.
Instead of trying to get him the ball to establish a point, would it be better to look for the best matchup to score early and establish some offensive dominance?
I think the attempt by Roman and Harbaugh to establish other weapons in the passing game has come at the expense of diminished impact by Vernon Davis. I don’t think they are using him enough in the passing game as a featured guy, and the mistake is that he poses a greater mismatch against any strong safety as opposed to Crabtree against any cornerback the Niners have faced.
Of course, the 49ers would never talk about any of this because they don’t talk about scheme, so I have to be your analyst of schemes. I am not saying the 49ers will fail with their strategy or not go to the Super Bowl. I merely am pointing out that they are not maximizing their use of their best receiver, and they appear to be doing this to make a point about Crabtree, a point that may not be valid. Is this the way to go?
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excellent piece, Grant. yes there’s a marked increase in passes to Crabs, and i think early in the season it makes sense to try to get a good rhythm going with Alex, and to set the notion of Crabs as a go-to guy in the minds of DCs around the league. they can bust out VD a bit later. right now, its time to establish this former #1 pick as a threat, if possible.
having said that, i remain concerned that Crabs doesn’t have the “burst” or the strength to be a dominant wideout. the best wideouts have a combination of acceleration off the line or out of breaks, and physical strength, to shed DBs and break hand-checks & tackles. Crabs goes down a bit too easily. but he has become a solid outlet, and hopefully can grow on that.
Down easily? I’m not sure I agree with that. Remember how he manhandled Patrick Peterson last year? He’s stronger this year as well.
There comes a time when it’s best to just go down and not risk a fumble or injury. No one will question Rice’s ability to break a few arm tackles and be gone, yet part of his durability was his presence of mind to go down instead of fight and risk fumble/injury.
That said, I’ll have to see all-22 to see if I agree with this. Most teams are going to roll coverage to VD, the Jets covered him with their #1 DB while he was split out. He’s obviously the 49ers’ most dangerous weapon, and teams know that. Crabtree is a solid target (assuming he stops dropping the ball), and has typically been open when the ball’s come his way.
Let’s not forget that Alex is the one throwing the ball, with the option to check plays or audible at the line. I would like to see better adjustments to coverages, don’t get me wrong, but there’s a lot to be said about a good rapport between players… and Crabtree’s position and ability also means he won’t be held in to block, and can run more quick cut routes.
Great observation Grant. I’m going to risk echoing something that might have been said past this post, but it’s a chance worth taking since 99% of the posts here are the same redundant Alex Smith cheerleaders.
I don’t think the league or any DC is going to buy into MC as a go to guy. They haven’t in 4 games. They instead are saying, go ahead and beat us with Crabtree. We don’t think you can. We know you can beat us with VD, so we’ll continue to let you make MC your number one receiver.
That mentality seems to be working. SF has to manufacture offense because VD is not an option. Greg Cosell has said as much.
Anyone who thinks VD is going to just come alive week 8 and pick up where he left off after not being targeted, only has to look to D. Walker this year. When you don’t get the ball on a consistant basis, you lose the nuances that you’ve built with your QB. I believe that is D. Walker’s issue this year. The speed of the game will pass you by if you aren’t an active participant.
I believe the bigger issue here is not Alex Smith. I believe the bigger issue is Greg Roman and the play calling. It sort of reminds me of the Raiders in the Superbowl against TB and Gruden. Roman appears so worried that the NFL is going to figure out how to beat his play calling and become familiar with it, he is out to hatch a new scheme each week.
A lot of commentators have brought notice the fact that SF doesn’t have a bread and butter scheme that they can build on week to week. Greg Roman is responsible for establishing an identity in SF.
Looking forward, the Bills have two O-linemen out for this week. The right side fo the line is going to be the spot to attack.
The 49ers need to attack their weakness at covering the slot and covering bigger TE’s. Hester is coming up after divisional games. I believe the Chicago game will be quintessential to seeding in the playoffs.
Arizona is a little bit inflated right now with some very fortunate bounces of the ball. They are now entering the tougher part of their schedule. I think that should really tell us where the Cardinal stand as a team.
I think calls for Kaepernick to start are premature. I think Alex Smith is 30% of the blame for a flat offense, but I think Greg Roman deserves 50%. I’ll credit opposing Defenses with 12% and drops, inability to get open, and line blocking the 8% it deserves.
MC didn’t manhandle Peterson J.
You’re thinking of somebody else. Game 2, Peterson had his way with MC. And Peterson is now an elite #1 CB.
If MC can take Peterson to school, he is a legit #1 WR. Has MC though ever dominated a really good CB? The AZ game would be a good time if he hasn’t yet.
Hey ds your hate continues. Just remember MC is 3-1 that’s all that counts… Right? Pshhht
get a phone md.
And what a shock. Your spew hate the first post you have. Never would of guessed that.
Get a phone? Lame. And check the clock you clown. You are to easy to smack. And my hand never gets tired. Hanging by a string ds. Wheeew. Just jump ship now and save some time.
You should have stopped right there, it’s self-explanatory.
7 catches for 120 is ownage. Sorry to burst ur bubble
Adam
That was game 1
Game 2 7 catches for half the yards (62). Think Peterson grew up a lot in just a few weeks.
This year, he is doing a great job. So is MC. We’ll see who gets the better of who come game day.
Game 2 everyone on the offense played bad. I dont count that game
He (MC and everyone) had a bad game because the Cards (PP and company) made them have a bad game.
The Cards played like that all of last half of lst year, and are 4-0 this year. That would be dismissing an awful lot of games Adam707.
If you’re a Cards fan, do you dismiss game 2 as well? Or game 1?
You can’t dismiss a game. A pass/throw/run/little bit of a quarter. But a whole game? No. Well, I can’t. No way for me to make you change your mind here, so I’ll end it here.
Think about this…. MC gets most of his passes where? In front of the defense. IN PERSON I’ve seen him get beyond the secondary a rarely get the ball. And when he does for some unknown reason. Smith can’t consistently hit him. It’s hard to break tackles when 2 guys are doing the tackling. The day we actually stretch the field and get recievers in 1 on 1 matches downfield. You’ll see how MC can kill db’s and safety’s
Just watch the game amd you can see MC get behind the defense often. Alex either doesn’t look at him or airmails it.
Grant,
I think you’ve reached the wrong conclusion. The number of targets to MC may be coincidence, nothing more.
4 Td’s in 4 games is a diminished impact?
i think its more of crabtree knows the offense most and is still #1
davis is being underused i think, needs more work in the ten yard area…
Alex needs to take the bull by the horns and push the rock…if you are on the other side of the 50, push the F@#@#NG ball….dont be scared….
7′s win ballgames and champtionship
push the rock in the red zone, int’s are not a big deal down there..
Go NINERS
Grant,
I think JH is trying to do his best to quell Crabtrees frustration with not getting into the end zone. Crabtree should have at least 3 touchdowns by now. Alex didn’t see him once and threw for 2 yards to Moss. He missed him on an out in the Minhesota game by not throwing it. He overthrew him deep in the Jet game.
Crabs is getting looks because he has the biggest catch radius and the best hands. He is getting targeted because he should be used. He’s being targeted because smith is comfortable throwing inside of 10 yards to Crabtree. He comfortable deep to Vernon. VD had no complaints, he’s got 4 TD’s. Crabtree has none. All the receivers need to be targeted. The QB has to give them a chance by throwing the ball to them instead of 2nd guessing himself of his arm. Pull the trigger.
If VD had to stay in and help Stalwy block, he’s gonna be targeted less.
As long as they are winning,i don’t care who gets the ball. You and your dad should be coaches rather then what you are,being that you know so much.
…still can’t believe we settled for a FG last week with a little bootleg run….
WEAK…..so WEAK
Grant, good stuff. MC is good on hitch plays and makes some difficult catches but MC isn’t a YAC guy – not fast or elusive. Additionally, how often does he get open (consistently) with separation? He isn’t very explosive. Would they need to sign RM if MC was truly a number one with all of the number one traits? Did you see AJeffery last night? I don’t think you would need to throw him open!! Yes they should return to finding ways to get mismatches for VD. Part of the problem is that he is sometimes needed to help JStaley against the opponent’s best pass rusher. Taking the most explosive receiver on the team out of a pass play is a detriment to the offense. They need to find more creative ways to use their speedy receivers including VD, KW, and MM.
hof
RM is pretty much an all win scenario. If he sucks, he didn’t cost us much, and we have other players to take his place. If he is good, then we get a good player in addition to the ones we already have making it just that much harder for teams to defend us.
If you’re asking about MC being a legit #1, the Niners bringing in MM and drafting AJ may indicate the Niners concern about that. But as of this moment, MM isn’t replacing MC and AJ has yet to see the field. Things can change, but there is no evidence that it will just yet.
DS, if RM doesn’t work out for whatever reason, they have AJJ on the bench to insert when necessary. There is 12 more games so let’s hope this pass offense can start clicking.
I don’t know the stats on this, but I thought MC’s whole deal was pretty much that he was great at YAC. Maybe that was college? He definitely fought for some tough (though not huge) yards on 3rd down conversions in the DET game. Also not getting perfect passes (and routinely high) makes YAC difficult. Side note – I would love to see Manningham get more passes his way.
Dangle, I agree with you. Let’s hope AS and MC connect several times this week against Buff. Just need to execute – no overthrows and no drops!
dangle
MC grabs the high ones. His drop on Sunday was a chest/waist high throw. Most of MC’s drops are the supposed good height throws. And most of MC’s catches are passes that are thrown high and he rarely drops those.
Most of AS passes to everybody else are not high.
Just look it over the next couple months.
Some are high, some aren’t (most likely some QB mechanics need to be revisited.)
Some of Crabs’ difficulties are the pass patterns themselves – the ones underneath – which I absolutely hate. Some of it is that he’s not particularly quick after the catch, he tends to juke or spin and gets caught almost every time.
Crabs is talented but I too have wondered if he’s being used correctly. If what he’s doing isn’t automatically detected. Seems pretty obvious, like a Jimmy Raye gap rush.
Some of the play calling so far has been a bit wanky, in my opinion, but I wonder if that isn’t because they knew they had a hard schedule to start with and needed to try to play against tendency (which is smart if it works.) Maybe they over-thought some of this. The Vikes are coming on strong, I’m not surprised, in hindsight, that we dropped that game. The North may have some unexpected players, Bears looked pretty good last night, too.
Adam
Then which pass patterns would you like to see from MC? His drop last Sunday was on such a route. And in my opinion if MC catches it and maintains his speed to avoid the Safety, I think he scores a TD doing a JR type TD. He had his guy flat out beat.
Maybe they’re not focusing on vd as much on purpose. They’re not playing well on offense, not even average. How do they come out throwing against Minnesota and running against the jets when they know Revis is out? Is it because they have no faith in AS? Are they trying to hide his mini slump? Cuz, he’s in a slump and by his standards, that’s scary. What happens if he continues to play like this? Do they look at CK? Is CK even ready? I’m worried they do good enough to get in the playoffs then a team like the giants scheme against AS Abd we are one and done.
Our offense has been horrendous since the lions game. We were bad that game too. Teams are beggining to have tape in us abs are fuguring out how to stop this bad offense. We are being out coached and with the additions of all these new weapons, we still look bad. JH and GR have to sit down and figure it out. Don’t be stubborn like ding was and find a way. Roman has been hand cuffing this team and gadget plays rarely work and are not dependable. If you think about it, even last years funky passes to staley and soapaga were gadget plays. Teams have figured out how to stop us. That houstan game, with there D not to mention Chicago are going to be really tuff.
Where are the WCO plays? We are not watching that at all. It seems like Bo schembeckler reincarnated.
Go back to the basics JH and if that means taking over playcalling, so be it!!
We are not as good as our record. Our offense is futile.
So….. Ck7 is he ready and would JH make that change for the better if the team if necessary? I would let CK play a little more and not just those fluky plays either. Real plays. If we jump out big against the Bills, give CK extended play time. What if we have an RG III on our hands and don’t even know it?
Before you go bashing me for bring a AS hater, or siding with any particular characters here, these are my own thoughts and I just want whats best for OUR team.
I hate auto correct!
Big Niner,
I agree with everything you said. Some people think winning now is enough. Everybody on this blog expects us to be in the playoffs. That is not a given, considering how we are sputtering on offense. All we heard about was all these new toys. I said Smith would struggle to get the ball to them months ago. It’s not about them. He has to throw the damn ball. The coaching staff knows he’s not comfortable and he’s not attempting a lot of throws. They had this problem last year. That’s why they went after Manning. It’s not the throws Smith is making. It’s the ones he’s not making.
This team is built to win now. We have a lot of key positions getting older, especially in defense. Our window is now. I’m not sure CK is the right choice right now but I do know AS is struggling big time.
I think he has regressed over the last few weeks. That’s bad considering this is his second year he’s “supposedly”
an expert in this offense. He’s too scared to throw unless ge knows for sure the receiver is open. Most of the time, that’s too late.
When I think if this offense, I think Andrew Luck, big, mobile strong arm, smart
I don’t think you’re wrong but I think Cossell said it better last year. Smith doesn’t play with anticipation like most great QB’s do. He has to see the WR is open instead of seeing the throwing window before the WR is open. Throwing windows don’t stay open long in the NFL so if you’re throwing when the window is open by the time the ball arrives, the window is closed. Smith’s great pass to VD against the Saints to win the game last year was an example of him playing with great anticipation. The reason the crossing routes to VD are so successful is because VD usually beats his man off the line and then he stays completely open across the field. The throwing window on that play is extremely long. Smith and VD are really great at throwing those crossing routes. For some reason, Roman isn’t calling many of those plays this year.
Why don’t they use walker to chip block instead of Davis?
Because they’d rather have D. Walker drop passes :) Just jokin’
SoCal,
Walker is a much improved blocker. I’m assuming they are both not in the game at the same time as often.
With relation to the number of times targeted how many catches, drops, TDs, first downs and yardage after the catch, how many defensive holding or pass interference penalties called are integral to the analysis of how valuable a wide receiver or a tight end is in the passing game.
Ever think Roman and Harbaugh are trying to set up options for the future?
They are 2-2 for 17 yards on those first passes to Crabtree, the 3rd being a 14 yard PI vs NY. The one pass not to Crabtree was an incompletion to Davis.
Jack
What’s the link to your blog again? Have you broken down any game film yet? I suggest looking at the Bills and keys to next week’s game.
Nick,
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/
Working on that right now.
Thanks Jack, you’ve got some good stuff there. Keep it up.
Jack, That blog is awesome! I kind of laughed when the suggestion was made that your write one. Now that I’ve read it though, I really like the insight. Can’t wait for the predictions and write ups for the Bills game! Great work and a pleasant read!
“I kind of laughed when the suggestion was made that your write one.”
I get credit for that! : ) Jack, a few more hits and we can add ad clicks. That revenue man!
Press Pass Hofer! That’s what it’s all about, just as you suggested.
I read a couple of your posts Jack, good stuff!
Re the Bills, I get a lot of Bills coverage up here. Their defence is ‘neworleansesque’. That is, terrible. Their front 4 has really disappointed, particularly the $90 million man, Williams.
Their offence is pretty good, Fitzpatrick’s underrated. The D puts him in a lot of bad spots, and he throws ints as a result (I think he leads the league in TD’s and int’s?). However, their o-line, which was solid, is now getting hit by injuries, 2 starters out. Fred Jackson is stupendous (Spiller good too), but I don’t think the line will be able to get it done against the 9er D in the run game. I predict 30-10 49ers, with the Bills scoring late to make it look better than it really was.
Take a look at this analysis of Smith, and the running game from Sunday.
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/
Jack – nice analysis and a cool site. Keep up the good work!
Jack, your blog reads a little Sando-esque. All good!
Nick,
Thanks for the suggestion. I just posted this weeks defensive keys.
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/
Jack
Thanks, I’ll check it out. By the way, are you familiar with Google Analytics? You use it to track the number of hits you’re getting on your blog. It’s a cool tool and it’s free to use.
Nick,
I am, and I put a counter on the top of the page. It was at 800+ hits as of my last post. Would be cool to get over 1000 by Thursday (1 week).
Week #4 Pick’em Rankings:
Crab15 41
ninermd 40
Jack Hammer 40
hjt396 38
pirate49er 38
D Rogue 37
49erGirl 37
Angus in Canada 37
rocket 37
Coffee’s for closers 36
msclemons67 34
elGuapo 32
Nick Row 32
MidWestNiner 27
DClark 18
Chris 15
23jordan 6
Group avg. 30.3
What is this again?
They’ve got a Pick the Winners contest going; Coffee is the host.
Missed half the games last week – still in the running to make a mid-season push for the lead :)
Catching me is like trying to catch Usain Bolt. :-)
Good analogy with Bolt, especially since this is a marathon and not a sprint.
Don’t get too cocky, Crab – some of us are gaining on you – slowly but surely :-)
According to a lot of commentary here, 49ers are not correct in anything they do on offense. How they are averaging over 25 points a game is a mystery for the ages.
Defense and special teams ribico.
The comments here are based on what people imagined. Not in reality. In reality, we are a winning team with an offense that is still learning its systems and how to use its players.
Eli/Drew/Brady and all the other QB’s most would consider better than AS have all had a lot more time and have been playing with the same guys/system for a longer period of time than AS has. Year 2, we are winning. Just like in year 1. I as a fan, am happy enough about that. But the whiners seem to be pretty much out in full force.
The problem with putting Brady in that is that Brady was successful from his first full NFL season. He has ranked topped ten as of that first full season.
It’s unfair to compare Alex Smith to any of the names you mentioned. His style is very much the opposite of what’s been coined top ten QBs. By his style, I am refering more to the offense he’s a part of.
Joe Flacco has been in the same boat. He’s starting to excell now. I hope the same comes true for Alex Smith, but I don’t think that is going to happen. I think Alex Smith is hurt more now by Greg Roman than by the weapons he hasn’t had.
Chris
Brady had an elite defense when he first started. In fact, he hasn’t won the Super Bowl since that elite defense has disbanded. Not to mention the football gods helping Brady out with the “tuck rule”. I’d seen that happen a ton of times. And it was always called a fumble. The refs may be right, but historically, that was a fumble until that play. So, Alex hasn’t had a similar gift being given to him yet.
Flacco, I feel is a much worse comparison. He is a monster. Doesn’t have AS agility and did I mention how tall the dude is? AS doesn’t fit the mold of the current elite QB’s. But the one I think he is closest to is Drew Brees. Similar back-story. Brees takes more chances, but their hearts are similar.
I only hesitate to compare Brees with Smith because Brees has an offensive scheme that focuses on the deep ball and the weapons to complete that scheme. I used Flacco as an example only based on offensive scheme. Heart though, I agree Brees is a superb comparison.
As for Brady, his numbers are top ten. He has had a great defense to stand behind. I agree with you again that the “tuck rule” was gift wrapped.
I think unfortunately for Smith, the NFL has a cut out of what an “elite” qb should be. A QB is an extention of the o-line, the receivers, and most importantly the OC. If you look at the “elite” QBs, there are some phenominal OC’s behind them as well as lines and receivers.
Have you wondered if the tuck rule doesn’t happen, and the Pats lose, do they get rid of Bledsoe? The whole career of both guys was determined with that play. Maybe Brady is just a one and done guy if he loses that game.
God you guys just made me throw up in my mouth a little. Smith and Drew Brees comparison hmmm. Brees operates in chaos. Walls closing in around him and he never loses site of his receivers down field.
Did you watch him play against our defense last year. He physically was beaten down. We hit him so many times he should have never gotten back up. Yet there he is, not wilting. Staying strong in his collapsing pocket delivering balls. Brees attacks always he takes chances. Brees uses his WR’s brilliantly.
Now there’s Smith. Smith doesn’t give receivers downfield a chance. He takes no chances. Smith bails at the first sign of pressure, even when it’s phantom pressure meaning pressure that isn’t even there. Smith doesn’t use his wide receivers well. I don’t want to bash bash bash Smith but come on. Terrible comparison.
They are both good guys, both good men. Comparison ends there.
Bay, I agree with you. Brees is a rare breed. It’s a shame that his talent is being wasted, as their defence doesn’t seem to want to play unless there is some sort of……pay for performance incentive program in place….
Bay I agree with you that Brees as a QB is not a comparison. I said the comparison matches in heart only. Brees has tremendous heart. He never gives up. Smith hasn’t ever quit on a game. He’ll dive head first for the first down. He doesn’t complain. In those areas they are the same. On the field play, comparing Smith to anyone other than perhaps Jeff Garcia is unfair. The rest of the QBs blow Smith out of the water.
rib
Offense is averaging 15 ppg
Defense /ST are averaging 7.8 ppg
Personally, I’d like to see the offense contribute a little more than a 2:1 ratio with ST/D.
Correction – ST/D is averaging 11 ppg. That’s even worse than 2:1 for the offense.
Interesting stats 49erGirl. I’m assuming those ST points are KR/PR? And the offense wasn’t involved at all in getting field position for a FG?
Unless there is such a breakdown of all other teams, that stat means nothing.
Also consider point afters. Had a TD not been scored, there are no ST points.
ST kick field goals – the offense got close, but could not score a TD.
I’m just saying that you can’t give all the credit to the offense for scoring 26 ppg when it is a team score.
BTW, at the root of all arguments is AS – he averages 7.25 PPG passing. That could use some improvement.
A fun site to peruse with just that is http://www.teamrankings.com I don’t see us falling beyond the top third in nearly every offensive category. Except the least important stat, total offensive yards – we are #19.
Room for improvement? Sure, but not the QB-changing/OC-changing disaster some are making it out to be.
Agreed – I still think AS is our best option at QB right now and there’s nothing wrong with the coaching staff – they seem to be making the most with what they have.
We should see some improvement as the season progresses, definitely no reason to start overreacting or panicking – we’re 3-1 for heaven’s sake!
I just get sick of certain people trying to give all the credit to AS and the offense for scoring points and winning games, then turn around and blame everyone but them when there’s problems (like what happened after they played Minnesota).
Grant …
Can you do some digging on this theory:
Alex Smith was sent multiple plays in the huddle against the Vikings and the Vikings fooled him into changing running plays to passing plays, which eventually led to the lopsided play-calling ratio. Greg Roman didn’t call a bad game. Alex Smith did.
Harbaugh would never admit to this, but the very next game saw Kaepernick on the field more than any other time in his career.
What do you think?
I don’t think it’s a mistake to target Crabtree at all. I think teams are finding out if they stack the box then the 9ers leave Vernon Davis in to block. Stacking the box accomplishes 2 things for the defense: 1) They limit the 49ers rushing attack which is the strength of the offense. 2) They take out the 9ers best receiver in VD who stays in to block. If the 9ers can establish a real threat to WR’s then the entire offense will open up for them because opponents will need to loosen up to cover the entire field.
The problem is the 9ers haven’t been very successful in establishing Crabtree and the other WR’s as real threats. Crabtree has 21 receptions but his yard per catch (9.4) is near the bottom of all receivers with over 20 catches. The only WR with a lower YPC who has over 20 receptions is Nate Burleson. Defenses are stacking the box and still only giving up short passes to the WR’s so there is no reason to loosen up.
I don’t think it’s time to abandon the strategy of establishing Crabs as a real game changing threat. The benefit to the offense of establishing a passing threat to all levels of the field is too great to quit now. Consistently producing positive results to all levels of the field to WR’s will make other teams adjust and play safeties back. They won’t be able to attack so aggressively with the LB’s so VD can get more involved in the passing attack. You might say the 9ers Superbowl aspirations rest on Smith establishing a legitimate WR target. He’s not there yet but if you abandon the strategy he will never get there.
Houston,
Good post. It’s obvious they are trying to incorporate the WR’s more into the offense in general. The very first game there were 17 attempts to the WR’s.
As far as Davis is concerned, he had an ankle problem last week that might have affected his route running ability. They may have gone away from targeting him because of it.
A couple things as it pertained to this game with VD. First, the Jets were bracketing him with the LB and S anytime he tried to go vertical. This is why he was so open on the drag route he caught for a 23 yard gain in the 2nd quarter.
Second, they mostly tend to keep him in to block when running their shot plays. Go back and watch the CK to Moss play. They have both VD and DW in as extra blockers on the right side.
Agree. They keep in extra blockers on the shot plays, presumably to protect longer on the 7 step drops. I still think that’s a bit of a mistake. VD draws so much attention that sending him on a route would help the shot plays be more open. Also VD is a perfect outlet if they triple cover the deep player like they did with Moss.
nice houston… the niners could also accomplish a similar goal by showing 3 TEs and then plugging Vernon in at WR, and using Celek as the blocker. That would create huge mismatches all day long. He’s just a shorter, stronger Calvin Johnson.
I expect the Bills to do the Wednesday – stack the box that is. They did that against NE, but still got gashed for more than 6yards per rush and through the air by Brady. Galey – at his weekly press conference – said that the Bills must commit to stopping the run. NE was able to keep Buffalo off balance with a good mix of pass and run. I expect the Niners to duplicate that this week and that will include a good dose of MC and the rest of WR corp into the game plan.
*do the same on Sunday
Houston:
Agree with your points.
I also think we will see MM get targeted some more as he does seem to have the ability to get some YAC that Crabtree just hasn’t shown yet.
Look alex smith need to let that ball go in stop looking someone holding a gun To his head in just standin there.. Moss,Crabtree,Davis,Mario,Williams,ginn jr,walker, like c’mon man in u mean only a tight end got a touch down in moss with 1 Smh this offense cord seems like he don’t kno what the hell he doing you got moss on run packages in not play action at least 2 or 3 times Smh I was shocked that Colin actually got the ball down to him I had to keep rewinding
It on TiVo to see if that was real like start using moss ,vd, other people more keep people guessing they only thinking we gonna throw it to Crabtree Smh we better then this #niner nation
Please proof read your comments before posting. It hurts my eyes.
GC said: “The 49ers’ first pass has gone to Crabtree in three of the first four games. And there’s even more.
The 49ers’ first third-down pass has gone to Crabtree in two of the first four games.”
That’s only 5 passes, hardly enough to base a conclusion off of. Look at the match ups in those situations and then answer if it would have made more sense to target VD on the plays.
Also, why would you want to line up VD as a WR. You’ve all but announced he’s going out for a pass and will almost certainly draw double coverage, keeping him lined up in the TE slot keeps the defense honest. From the TE slot the routes run take longer then the quick slants that Crabtree run and on first down you want a quick high percentage pass to help build confidence and momentum.
What’s the percentage of pass plays that VD is being double teamed? If it’s still fairly high then you’ll game plan to involve the #1 receiver who’s only receiving single coverage.
The variables associated with your statistics are numerous. Whatever the reason I’m sure it is rooted in the diabolical family. My concerns are with Buffalo and defeating a very good football team at home to go 4-1.
Grant,
I need to know a couple of things from you first:
1. Are teams doubling up VD pretty much all the time?
2. Is VD going out for passes more than not?
If teams are doubling VD and VD is going out for passes a lot, then the throws to MC make a lot of sense. Teams have to commit a lot to stop VD, leaving MC in position to make plays. This is a strategy. Not a mistake by the Niners coaching staff/AS to not involve VD.
Besides VD has 3 or 4 TD’s right? I think he’s doing just fine.
Houston answered this above. Great write up Houston!
I wanted to hear it from Grant. He’s had the best view of this than anybody else. We’re just guessing.
Woooo woooo woooo. How did grant have a better view than anybody watching on tv?
Umm, he’s been at games. Is it you, or bay, that goes on about how you can see everything at the game that TV viewers can’t?
Grant goes to more games. Has access to the coaches/players to ask them ?, and a sports department to help him out.
md has his imagination and a huge bias. No wonder his posts lack insight. He thinks he knows that which he doesn’t.
Lol YEP HE GOES TO GAAAMES!!!! Like I said like he said. You get better views from the seats and the booth than you do on TV. Now you want to use that knowledge ds? Ha ha haaaaaaa. Access to players and coaches? They don’t ever say squat. Get real ds. Ha ha haaaa. And a sports department??? All of that when you can clearly see it yourself at the game? Sports department. Ha ha haaaaa. Haaaaaaaaaaaa wheeew. God I love it when the past rolls back around and I catch you on the fence trying to come over.
ninermd, I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Are you now saying it’s *not* an advantage to see the players positioning and plays unfold at a game? Oh, I see, your attempt at sarcasm, got it.
Actually DS, now that NFLreplay has the all 22 view, everyone can be a Junior Greg Cosell expert. Sucks to be him now.
ribico
I know. You can buy a hammer and nails. But that doesn’t make you a carpenter. The film are the tools. Simply posessing them does not an expert make.
Besides, Grant has access to the players/coaches. He can ask them questions directly. None of us can. We just guess.
I really dont care who catches the most or who is targeted the most means nothing. I am concerned about the red zone performance more then anything. The play calling in the red zone doesnt seem to be conducive to scoring TDs. We seem to move the ball fairly well then all of a sudden the brakes come on and wam bam thankyou mam we dont do sh@t. I want to know why we have to have so many trick plays instead of our meat and potatoes plays? We are a punch in the mouth team not a finesse team. Right now I am more concerned about play calling then I am anything else.
I’m with you! I dont get it at all. For example, the KW return against the Vikes put us down inside the 10 I think. There were then 2 runs and a roll out to the right that had no options. Absolutely no killer instinct in the play calling.
Alot of times you see teams do some things in the first half to possibly set something up for later in the game. I never see that here. I get the feeling that we do things now to set things up for later in the season. Its like we’re waiting for the Giants and we dont want to give them alot to look at or something.
Another thing thats got me puzzled is the Moss situation. I read alot of articles from people who weren’t initially sold on the Moss signing and heard from several people on Sirius who weren’t sold either. Then they saw him practice and completely changed there mind. They’re wondering, like me, what JH is waiting for to unleash him. We saving him for the playoffs so we aren’t stuck like last year?
I’ve been watching the 9ers since the Brodie years and I just cant shake the feeling, it seems to me that we’re just trying to get by each game without expending to much fuel, without giving the enemy too much knowledge, so the team that we play next wont know exactly whats coming. I say lets just unleash it! Put it all on the table and just start killin some of these teams. I would rather they know whats coming and cant stop it. This Wildcat crap and all these trick plays are for sissies. Lets line up and play some football! You want to build a bully then unleash the bully!
Montanaman16,
Kindly go and take a look at that 3rd down play again. Crabtree was open on that play. when he came out of his break, the ball should have been there. Alex did not make the throw, watch Crabtree’s frustration with Alex not making the throw. He didn’t pull the trigger. Just look at Crabtree in the end zone on that play again.
Grant,
The statistics you used do indicate that the 49er couches are trying to get MC involved early in games. Of course Bill Walsh felt it was important to do the same with Rice. Back in the day it was felt that if you didn’t get Rice involved early, you might not get him involved at all. There may be parallels in the coaches thinking and in the personalities of the players involved. The opponents might also have something to do with it too.
This is, I think, *mostly* about VD being such an asset blocking that he does not always go out in the pattern.
I don’t particularly like keeping our best receiver in to block… but I can also see the necessity.
As a 49ers fan since 11 years old it is hard for me to see Alex Smith go deep in the passing game and to not make the throws that he should be making at this time of his career. I believe you can look to the future as a franchise and roll with Kapernick
DS94everXev says:
October 2, 2012 at 12:46 pm
“MC didn’t manhandle Peterson J.
You’re thinking of somebody else. Game 2, Peterson had his way with MC. And Peterson is now an elite #1 CB.
If MC can take Peterson to school, he is a legit #1 WR. Has MC though ever dominated a really good CB? The AZ game would be a good time if he hasn’t yet.”
@DS
I agree in part with your comments. Peterson is a great DB and he is getting the best of many WR’s these days. But that doesn’t mean those WR’s are sub-level players by any stretch.
Dieon Sanders won a few confrontations with J.Rice, M.Ervin, and other #1 WR’s, did that make them sub-par?
Even with only a couple of receptions on Sunady, MC still leads the team in receptions just like last year.
Some here pointed to his high drop percentage last year, but he is now catching almost everything thrown his way.
Some were saying that MC and AS did not develop a good chemistry because of his early injury in TC. He’s leading the team again in receptions.
Some said that the offence was going to go through the 11-85 connection this season. VD is still our most dangerous weapon, but he hasn’t been getting the bulk of the plays.
You said that MC needs to take Peterson to school. Well, I think we proved on Sunday that neither MC or AS need to have a great game for us to win.
But if you’re going to put it on MC’ shoulders for the team to win that’s cool.
I would only add that you should make the same claim for AS in all fairness.
I tend to disagree with your assessment Grant.
One, if you want to use the label, Crabtree already is the 49′ers “#1 receiver”, take a look at last years stats, and he was playing hurt 1/2 of the season. He was very, very productive in the 2nd half.
Two, it’s impossible to make any sort of judgment about anything based on 4 instances. I mean, it rained on 2 of the last 4 Tuesdays here. Does that mean that some force at work causing it to rain on Tuedsays?
The 49′ers play the matchups that they think they have the best chance at succeeding at, which is dependent on the defensive strategies teams use against us. Who they target most evolves over the season as defences adjust. Typically, when teams play the 49ers, their tight end becomes the “#1 receiver”, as the 9ers often leave safeties on top, and put a LB in single man coverage on a TE underneath. Teams attack that.
As far as your suggestion that it might be an attempt to establish other weapons in the passing game, that isn’t an end in itself. If passing to Delanie Walker every single play would guarantee a win, the 49ers would do that every single play of every single game. They’re not going to force feed balls to anyone, just to do it. If defences start to cheat or over commit to some aspect of our offence (ie. double teaming the TE or putting 8 in the box, etc.), you take advantage and hit ‘em elsewhere.
People criticise our offence as being boring. I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s a thing of beauty, keeping teams off balance, and who doesn’t love a properly executed run play with a lead fullback and a pulling guard hitting their blocks perfectly. Damn, I’m pumped for Buffalo!!
I don’t believe they’re scheming incorrectly. The offense draws up plays and its up to the QB to progress through his reads and get the ball where its suppose to be. With any offense, the number 1 WR is usually the first read. And Alex loves to go to his first read. Using less of Vernon now I think will benefit schematically later on. Establish crab, mm, moss as threats and defenses will be forced to study them more.
Grant, if you really want to explore this, go to the all-22 and figure out how many passing snaps VD blocks, how many he goes out and sees double coverage, and how many single coverage. Then compare to Crabs. I have a hunch the numbers might well be self-explanatory.
Grant
What % of the time on pass plays is VD going out to catch the ball compared to this time last year? A big point coming into the season for me was for the Niners to use VD in the passing game a lot more. He is a matchuy nightmare. Noboy can defend him. Our WR’s are not of that caliber now. If we can get our OL to block well enough so that VD goes out to catch the ball virtually every time, everybody else will benefit.
Clearly the answer is move Davis to WR. /sarcasm
+1 – sarcasm
Make defenses show which CB is on VD. If it’s there 1, MC should have his way with the #2. AS just tosses it out to him.
DS I’m a loser, I’m rewatching the game. Our rush offense is unreal.
Let’s make MC a TE and have him help JStaley. VD will then be open on the seam and wheel routes. WWWHHHEEEEWWWW!!!!!
Copyright infringement. You owe me 3 push ups hof. I say three because it always seems that you are tipping the old wine bottle. Wouldn’t want to kill a good buzz. ;-)
Hofe,
It’s nice to see the ‘usual suspects’ taking their customary shots at MC (lol).
When I said during the summer that AS and MC were tied at the hip, I didn’t think that statement would reveal that truth after just 4 games (lol).
In AS’ first two games he and MC looked very good. And pretty much every blogger made positive comments about the two players.
In the last two games AS and MC were both off.
Now, it seems that both AS and MC are at the center of the blame game again.
AS will only go as far as MC goes. VD is going to be double covered and RM will garner the same.
Alex has to find a way to get the ball to MC much better then he has the last two games.
M.Manningham seems to be emerging as a vital weapon as well. Alex (coaches) also have to find a way to utilize MM’ talents.
I find it interesting that when AS has a sub-par game that the MC ‘blamers’ come out sing his dirge.
I will say this, just so I’m not showing a complete bias toward MC.
If he does not perform (right now he our leading WR), I have no problem with Harbaugh giving another WR some snaps the way he did with AS and CK.
I trust Harbaugh to make all the right decisions.
AES,
Let me first say I want both AS and MC to do well. I’m disappointed in the passing offense to date. Some is AS fault, some is the playcalling, and some is on MC. Do you remember the game against Detroit, how many drops were there?? It would be great if everything just clicked for one game – no overthrows and no drops!
MM is emerging because he is more elusive than MC. When was the last time MC caught a pass on a hitch route where he made a couple of tacklers miss? It does happen, but just not enough. I was watching MNF last night and it just seems the receivers were open. The QB’s weren’t throwing them open either. Many times they were open by 3+ yds. When was the last time MC was that open?
I understand the criticism of AS being a first round first pick player, but MC hasn’t produced like a top WR pick either. Some on him some on AS. When they both learn to trust each other and build chemistry, they might just click – I hope I see it!
hof
“Many times they were open by 3+ yds. When was the last time MC was that open?”
I think he was just about that open twice on Sunday. The first posession 3rd down drop and the one AS missed him deep. But that one doesn’t even count because had he caught it, it is coming back anyway. So, I’m kinda happy he didn’t catch that one. The heartache of the two connecting on a deep TD pass only to have it come back would have really sucked.
After thinking about this I changed my mind – no sarcasm. It’s perfect, Grant could write about, the Lamonicas could flip out about, another WR Alex isn’t getting the ball to. There would be nervous-nellie hand-wringing. All in all, worth 4 figures of blog posts, untold page hits. Win-win all around.
Would it be beneficial for the team? Doesn’t matter.
Good analysis Grant.
Many coaches have ‘scripted’ plays to run in the first X amount of plays or specific situations early in games. I think/hope that the coaches are doing things like this on purpose so that other teams have to react to them. The point is to get the other team’s reaction to specific things out there and then adapt. Similar to putting CK out there a few times, running and then presumably calling the deep pass. It keeps defenses on their toes. What would be really interesting is if this trend continued the whole year. They might just keep it up since crabs is the #1 receiver. It also probably doesn’t hurt for them to get Crabs going early to keep him happy and feeling useful. VD is not a guy you need to dangle a carrot in front of to keep him blocking hard and running hard. I thought before the season that they would need to do things like this for Moss…. shows how much I know.
ninermd says:
October 2, 2012 at 6:03 pm
“Lol YEP HE GOES TO GAAAMES!!!! Like I said like he said. You get better views from the seats and the booth than you do on TV.”
@MD
oneniner was the first to bring this up and rag on you for sometime after that.
DS hitched onto oneniners rag wagon and continued the jeering.
Anyone who has gone to live games know that there is much more to observe then the average tv viewer.
A good case in point about having a better perspective at a live game was on display during the 49er vs Saints playoff game when we can hear E.Davis (radio broadcast with T.Robinson) calling AS’ TD to VD before he threw the ball because he could see it develop in a live scenario.
Bay, also brings up a good example when he asked if anyone here saw CK7 line-up as a WR causing the Jets to call a time out. They did not show this on tv and the tv announcers did not have a clue why the Jets even called a time out.
Point: Let’s just put to rest the notion that tv viewers have the same perspective as those who see the game live.
Totally a false notion.
AES
Oneniner was never a jerk to me. Neither was Tim. I defended them both and got bashed for doing so.
Fact is many of you who claim to be better than those 2 have posted some bad stuff about me. You included I have 1 rule. Those 2 never broke it. So why would I not be cool with them?
And if you think I am a hypocrite, oneniner and Tim weren’t exactly friends here. But I am one of the only ones (if not the only one) who was cool with them both. Their viws were quite the 180.
Perhaps md’s comment about soccer players not being men but forigners and him calling me racist for liking 2 white guys has something to do with my posts at him. But you don’t recognize he said those things, so I’m the jerk here. Whatever.
DS,
You know that oneniner came after me on Thankgiving and on Christmas day. Could be the guy just has a bad time during holidays, which is cool.
But his comments were venemous and totally unprovoked.
OBTW, you jumped on his bandwagon by taking a few cheap shots of your own.
You want to defend oneniner by all means have at it.
But that’s between you and him. Sideing with a jerk is your choice.
I for one, don’t miss him one bit!
AES
You’ve gone after him just the same. I’ve read the blog for a long time. You didn’t exactly come off to him as friendly. But I didn’t hold anything against you even though oneniner and you weren’t buds. If everybody wants those they interact with to not interact with those they don’t like, there is no blog. Nobody talks with anybody then. Don’t you see that?
And not once have I bashed you for writing something like you enjoy soccer. Or called you racist. If oneniner did to you, that is your issue with him. Leave me out of it. The fact he never did so to me must mean he isn’t as horrible as you think. You don’t think I’m a fan. You said I wanted MC injured. You have problems with my opinion, but when others express the same opinion, you some how didn’t see those posts. And don’t hold it against them (more than me have said CK shouldn’t have thrown that pass. A lot more). I didn’t throw any fists your way until you’d thrown a good # at me. I asked you to not use certain words, you refused.
And you once again put my name in with oneniners. I asked you not to do so, but you refuse. You’ve been no better to me than oneniner was to you. I have an issue with you, I don’t draw in ribico for example. Keep problems to those you have them with.
PS Oneniner never told me to not post to you. He respected my right. You didn’t. Maybe you skipped that lesson in your PR class.
Exactly. And there were others that said the same as onelame and ds. It’s all good. Because the old wagon always comes back around. And ds again is spinning off of the subject. Bringing up the soccer and foreigner comment. I hate soccer and I don’t give two cares about foreigners. If most have seen what I have they would understand. I don’t razz or bother American foreigners so who cares. I am of Puerto Rican/native American/ and a splash of welch. And onelame did his best to put down my race. Ds had nothing to say about that. But I don’t care. So for ds and its unintelligent comments to continue to defend that chump, makes her a mark also. The one thing I can’t stand about ds is the hypocrisy. Other than that it can defend or like any player it wants. It’s America. But I’m glad you caught this aes. Because I remember a couple of folks sounding like fools when I said you can see the while field better at the games. Feels great to be right sometimes. Lol A’s are on gotta go. Goodnight you two.
MD, it’s just not right being a 9er fan and A’s fan. Something is wrong there! LOL
MD,
As a person with a little PR blood in him, you know I consider you my Bro. But the A’s? (lol).
Hope my Giants and your A’s meet up in the World Series again. I still have withdrawels when I think about the outcome of the last time we met in the WS (lol).
Let me explain how you become a 49ers and A’s fan like myself. First, I’m an old fart and second I grew up in Alameda and we went to A’s games because of how close they were. Back in the late 70′s and throughout the 80′s the A’s were very good. The Raiders were down in L.A. during this time and they stunk as bad as they do now so the 49ers were really the only choice.
So if you’re an old fart that used to live near the Coliseum it’s easy to understand how you become an A’s/49ers fan.
Growing up my dad had his teams. Giants and 49ers. I rolled with the 49ers back in 82 after their first. I remember glimpses of that Super Bowl the year before and my mom trying to buy me a dolphins shirt. Dad destroyed that shirt and bought me a 49ers one. Growing up in Puerto Rico my mom followed her dad and the dolphins. I remember hearing my dad and a couple of his brothers and friends cheering throughout the night that first Super Bowl.
As far as the A’s. baseball was always my first love. It was something about the lawn and sunny days of spring that got me hooked. The first team I was inked too (lol) as a youngster was the A’s didn’t get many A’s games on the tube back then in Sac. So my uncle would take me to the coliseum. And when the Bash Brothers came around it was over. Because we all know chicks dig the long ball. :-) I didn’t grow up in the bay. So I had the choice of picking my teams at will. And I’ve stuck with them since. So take it easy on my A’s now. 1 more to go! Wheeeew!
MD, the last 100 games they’ve been outstanding those A’s of yours. It would be great to get both teams into the World Series with the G-Men winning this time around. WWWHHHHEEEWWWW!
Lol a bay bridge series would be awesome. I wonder what kind of natural disaster the giants will pull out this time to try and stop those swinging A’s. lol
Even as a die-hard Giants fan, it’s been pretty fascinating to see what the A’s have accomplished this year. I’d love to see them win tonight.
Its hard not to cheer them on since over half their team just came up from the River Cats in the last year or two, lol!
BTW -if any of you are ever in Sacramento and want to just kick back, relax and have a good time with your family, check out a River Cats game. Stadium is beautiful and the atmosphere is fantastic!
Crabtree is not a dominant WR – PERIOD. Yes, he came up big with 3rd down catches earlier this year, but the later opponents adjusted to that and played man on him – PERIOD. He was lost in the playoffs last year – FULL STOP
I would like to see more of Manningham and VD focus.
Further, I would like to see Jenkins suite up and run some of those routes down the sideline AS keeps missing our WR on. He is suppose to be fast, thus should be able to run underneath these balls. This is how Torri Smith in Baltimore was acclimated to the Ravens offense.
MC’s eval for me begins in the playoffs. I’ve seen him do well enough in the regular season. Unless he is horrible, he’s cool with me right now.
VD sucked last regular season. MC was WAY better. Then those roles were reversed in the playoffs. The only purpose to the regular season is to get into and placement into the playoffs. MC shows up there, I can care less about his regular season. He shows up, we’ll win the Super Bowl. We almost did last year.
Hofe:
“I understand the criticism of AS being a first round first pick player, but MC hasn’t produced like a top WR pick either. Some on him some on AS. When they both learn to trust each other and build chemistry, they might just click – I hope I see it!”
@Hofe
I seen part of last night’s game as well. And their offenses call for different type of playcalling then ours. As good as Dez Bryant may be on paper he has yet to show it on the field. And Romo is the most overrated QB I’ve seen.
Marshall is a beast when he wants to be, and Cutler will throw the ball whether WR’ are open or not.
Different offenses with completely passing games.
We on the other hand, run a very controlled offense. We take shots only when they are there.
That is good for a team that does not go out and sign free agents WR’s as weapons.
I would venture to say that all MC, RM, and MM would ask of Harbaugh, Roman and AS is to just throw the ball in their vicinity and let them make a play for it.
RM has made a career of this and MM has made great catches where E.M. put the ball in his area and he has come up with great catches as seen in last year’s SB.
It’s early in the season yet, but AS has already missed on at least 3 TD’ by either overthrowing the ball or not throwing it at all.
These instances can’t be blamed on MC or anyone else.
I vowed to myself that I would give every player a pass the season given their great 2011 finish.
I’m just not so sure Harbaugh feels the same way.
But there’s a heck of a lot more football to be played. I’m sure that all phases of the offense will get in sync sooner than later.
Go 49ers!
AES,
I have always said this and still can’t wait til it happens. I look forward to the day when Crabtree is playing for someone that truly trusts him and his playmaking ability. I’ve said this since trhe day he was drafted. Crabtree is going to be a star on the next team he plays for. He does not have blazing speed but he is a bull and he can and will make great catches. He gets so few opportunities to shine in this offense. I’m tired as hell of complaining about the QB but the truth is the light.
Crabtree has the biggest catch radius on the team. Our Qb does not even trust Cratree to make plays. He only trusts VD. People wonder why Crabtree doesnt get a ton of YAC. Passes have to be thrown on target and on time for receivers like Crabtree to get YAC. Receivers have to be hit in stride. You never know where the pass is going to be when it comes from Smith.
There are times whan Crabtree has to jump 2 feet in the air to catch a wr screen. Crabtree is not going to win very many footraces, but when he beats his man, the ball is almost never there. Its amazing to see how many times he’s been missed by Smith in his career. He’s missed Crabtree for at least 10 touchdowns in his career. 3 this year alone.
I know one thing. Smith simply cant keep overthrowing these receivers for touchdowns.
Jordan,
Two things:
It seems like you are cheering an individual player in Crabs which you raz the Smithers for, and you said the same kind of thing last year about Braylon Edwards who is MIA so far this season in Seattle.
Crabs is a possession receiver imo. He’s strong, blocks well and for the most part has improved on his route running. As far as him becoming a star, I don’t see it. He’s not explosive enough to be a star imo, but can be a very good move the chains guy which is an important role to have on the team.
DS:
“And you once again put my name in with oneniners. I asked you not to do so, but you refuse. You’ve been no better to me than oneniner was to you. I have an issue with you, I don’t draw in ribico for example. Keep problems to those you have them with.
PS Oneniner never told me to not post to you. He respected my right. You didn’t. Maybe you skipped that lesson in your PR class.”
@DS
DS, if it’s ok with you, i’d prefer to let all the crap go.
oneniner is got banned becuase of his classless rants around here.
Nuff said.
@DS
BTW, if you are referring to PR from my convo with MD.
I did not mean it as a PR class. It was in reference to my having part Puerto Rican in me.
Then keep your issues you had with oneniner to oneniner. If you have issues with me or anybody else, don’t involve others if they don’t involve themselves . Agreed?
Thank you.
Ds has defensed that dude since day 1 aes. Me and ds have had this convo before. Ds wanted to jump in the Frey and put its cheep shots and two cents in against me. All good. Ds made its bed now it gets to lay in it. With NO Oneniner sheets. I told you before ds to stay out of it and not to defend a serial banned poster. But since smith was “harbaughs guy” you felt big. Aes its a waste of time. The only thing to do now is to wait for smith to leave or continue smacking this hypocrite.
Lol defended*
meh. if u watch non-49er games, elite QBs miss open guys with poor throws or by not seeing them. so it is not a shocker when a non-elite QB like Smith misses them. This isn’t about Smith. All the receivers have the same QB on this team. Crabtree drops way too many balls and doesn’t create enough separation to be a #1. It sucks that he doesn’t break tackles, but if he wasn’t among the league leaders in dropped passes every year, I wouldn’t care. Just as they looked at Peyton to upgrade the QB spot, they drafted a receiver #1, picked up Mario Manningham and were the only team desperate enough to nab Moss for a reason.
The 9ers need upgrades at both positions, but they have a legit all-pro at TE that they should design more match ups for. I’d rather see them scheme to get Vernon a match up over Crabtree. To be honest, Manningham also looks better than Crabtree – though Manningham doesn’t like to go over the middle. Keep him away from returning punts (b/c he makes bad decisions), but Kyle Williams is more sure-handed in terms of drop ratio than Crabtree.
People want to make this either or. But both are closer to average than they are to all-pro. I reiterate. Vernon is an all-pro level player. Yet they continue to scheme to try to get Crabtree match ups on linebackers and get him early catches. The 9ers offense isn’t potent enough to be dropping passes – especially on 3rd down. To be the best offense they can be w/ the personnel they have, they should be focusing on creating match ups for VD and on 3rd down they should be going to guys who have the best catch ratios – KW from the slot to work the middle and MM on the outside.
Harbaugh’s supposedly a QB guru, so I assume he knows QBs and will play whoever the best QB is on the team. But people are deluding themselves if they think Alex is holding Crabtree back. The great wide receivers like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald still dominate with the David Carr’s and John Skelton’s of the world. Even the good ones like Dwyane Bowe and Brandon Marshall rack up 1159 w/ KC or 1000 and 1200 yards in Miami w/ that run oriented offense and whatever sloth was playing QB there the past 2 seasons. hell, even the Pierre Garcon’s, Brandon Lloyd’s and Jabar Gaffney’s of the world rack up well over 900 yards w/ whoever was QB for the Colts, Broncos/Rams, Redskins last season. Based on last year, it isn’t even a giveaway that Crabtree is 100% better than DHB.
Nice post. But there is no reason why AS/MC can’t get to that level. Just as long as AS isn’t blaming MC for not being better. And MC not blaming AS for his DHB level of play. Us fans thinking it means nothing. Those 2 can’t think it.
AS isn’t holding back MC. He’s holding back MC, MM, and RM. all will finish 40% below their normal scoring aver. as long as AS is their QB.
Lol. MM is nearly half-way to the # number of catches, and 1/3 of the the way to the total yardage he had all last season. But you are right, he still has to get his 4 TDs to match his spectacular scoring total. And ummm…. *anything* Moss gets is gravy over his recent output.
Defend defend defend….
Hell yes. When the opposite is tear down, tear down, tear down.
Not sure how you can hold someone back if they keep dropping passes or if they are not even on the field. In the 2nd half of the Jets game, they didn’t even try to throw it. Moss didn’t even play and the running game dominated so they stuck with it.
Kinda hard to improve the passing game when they don’t even use it. Manningham to me is now the 49ers #1 WR. He does it all. Elusive, tough runner, quick and can go deep. He should have had the last one if not for Wilsons hold. This offense is just fine and as soon as Roman figures out to just go with Crabs and MM fulltime and stop substituting different personnel groups, we will be good.
What is so wrong with defending a Niner?
You know what is really pathetic. When other teams fans come on here and say nicer things about our players than we do. That is just sad.
If you don’t want to defend a Niner and actually have a problem with others doing so, maybe you’re not a fan of the team anymore. Fans defend their players. If you don’t understand that basic premise, that is sad.
Whatnot’s post above is point on!
Bay, it’s fine to be critical but at least be fair and balanced. MC isn’t an explosive number one. MM and VD need more touches because they make plays.
This blog should be called Instant ALEX, not Instant 49ers.
Did you guys see that ESPN special on Bowman and Willis? Man those guys really are the heart and soul of our defense. Thats the thing about being a Niner fan that really sucks, we have probably the best defense in the league and we are always talking about the QB position.
This defense is special and Bowman and Willis are going to be great for years to come. We really have no weakness on defense. Goldson is playing lights out and if Whitner can some how learn to catch a football, we would be leading the league in turnovers.
T. Brwon is having another quiet but productive year, this dude is so underrated. Culliver is as well and Rodgers is starting to pick it up.
As for the OLB’s, relentless. Brooks is coming into his own and Aldon Smith, outside of the bad penalties is a monster, sack monster that is.
I could care less anymore about the Alex thing because the offense has been stagnant because of the playcalling. Im not looking for a debate because you watch the playcalling and how it is set up and its all about the run. Prime is right, they didnt even try to throw a pass in the 2nd half against the Jets and if not for two drops, Alex looks like a hero, but insted, looks like a goat. Its done. I am focusing on the defense and how special it is from here on out. Harbaugh and Roman can figure out what to do with the offense, the defense can and will get us through the regualr season.
Prime
I agree with you on your assessment of the 2nd half. There is never a reason to throw the ball if you have a nice lead and your running game is tearing apart the opponent. AS attempted maybe 7 passes all 2nd half. CK didn’t attempt 1. I noted that Chicago kept firing deep passes Monday night. JH won’t do much of that at all. He’ll run it. Other teams pass it. Has nothing to do with faith in AS/CK/MC/MM/VD/RM/etc. That is just how JH coaches.
I disagree with your WR personnel statement though. KW can definitely add something to the mix. MM didn’t come here to be a #3 WR. He came here to challenge to be a starter, if not the #1 WR. If he continues to play well, I think he will be. Now, I don’t know if MC is attracting the better CB. If he is, then MM is benefiting greatly by having MC in there. If MM is attracting the opponents #1 CB more than not, then he is the #1 WR by default. Or maybe neither are attracting the opponents #1 CB. That may be VD who does.
FDM
I said this blog should be named “Inside the Niners fans head about AS” 2 weeks ago, nobody talked about the defense giving up 3 TD drives of 80+ yards. This week, nobody is talking about a shutout on the road. The rest of the team doesn’t matter here. It is all AS. Which makes me wonder if the blog exists if AS isn’t the QB?
FDM, I get your point, but in the playoffs teams need comeback firepower. He just seems when AS is on his game, the receivers drop the ball. When the receivers play well, AS misses them long. They just don’t seem to be in sync for whatever reason. I believe there will be good games passing the ball, but the offense can be torture to watch grind grind grind.
hof
We had comeback power. We didn’t have hold the lead power.
DS, most recently? Against the Vikes? There wasn’t any comeback firepower and I won’t discuss the sense of urgency again!
hof
Every team loses a game. And I was referencing last years playoffs. Both games we had the lead in the 4th then lost it.
Put it to you like this. Do GB/NE have comeback power? Because they have lost 2 games vs our 1. Relax hof. The NFL doesn’t have a team who can beat us if we don’t screw ourselves over. We are equipped as the best playoff team. We’ll exact some revenge then.
Hof I hear you but without sounding like making excuses, the Vikes game presented a different animal altogether. Without rehasing the obvious, after the 3rd Q and the big return kickoff by KW, the playcalling inside the 10 was horrible. They ran piss poor run plays and then ended up with a FG. Then we get the ball back, a great 9 play 86 yard drive to get it to 4 and then the defense lays an egg and gives up a 12 play 86 yard drive.
My point is your right, there is no continutiy from either side of the ball. One unit is going the other is not.this is early season NFL football.
However, this is why we are the best and most balanced team in the NFL. Its taking sometime to click but when it does, the team, the team, the team, will be gelled come playoff time. Better to be progressing then blowing your load early in the season as I see ATL and AZ doing.
Right now the run game and defense is holding us together. If the pass game does not start to click or as you say comeback fire power, then we dont deserve to be considered legit. Its gonna happen, we have too smart a coaching staff and talent on the offensive side of the ball for it not to. Give it time, we are working on week 5, long way to go.
@ FDM,
how can you say the offense has been stagnant because of the playcalling? While that is one element of it, so are the missed TD passes from Smith, so is the lack of connecting and building chemistry with his WR beyond 15 yards, so is Smith’s penchant to change plays to runs and to check down to quickly and to take sacks to easily.
Smith has has to date one decent game, one good game ( had the WR’s not dropped so many passes ) followed by two games in which he looked lost as hell, average, mediocre ….. you fill in the blanks. If you are fans of the team how long do you continue to give some slack to the biggest question mark on the offense? The coaching staff is already bringing in another QB in the redzone that has no experience whatsoever. Does that make the coaching staff haters too? It sure is an admission that #11 is not effective down there.
We are winning but our offense is semi broken. It does not invoke confidence that it can get it done in playoff time. It still stinks of the same type of offense that lost in the Giants game when in reality the game should have been put away.
We are not a team heavy in playmakers with an OC that doesn’t know how to utilize them and a distributor that does not fit their strengths.
Wake up, this blog is not the only place this conversation is being had.
Sorry meant:
We ARE a team heavy in playmakers with an OC that doesn’t know how to utilize them and a distributor that does not fit their strengths.
Bay, to be fair, VD and AS connected for long TDs in the NYG game. Once the Giants took VD out of the game or he was kept in to help block, any little firpower was gone. I’m tire of hearing MC needs to be thrown open. That is BS. MM has been here 4 games and he looks way more explosive. But I agree with most of your comment.
Hofer,
How much of it is conservative scheme versus not trusting players? I don’t mean Smith, I mean all of them. The only units I feel the coaching staff trusts are the defense and special teams, which is why they constantly ask them to win the game. How would the offensive play-calling differ if we had a bad defense? Would we just not be very good or would Roman and Harbaugh put more on Smith and the offense? I feel like Roman and Harbaugh should allow Smith to open it up a little bit as he has shown improvement in general, but I also wonder if he has struggled to gain their confidence in this department. Is he throwing picks during practice on more aggressive plays? Is he just hesitant to make the throws? I love to watch CK play, but I found it very odd that they would bring him in to throw the long bomb to Moss instead of having Smith do it. You mentioned that Smith can throw that far and I’m not doubting that, but it seems like it would benefit Smith and the offense if teams feared that part of his game, which they clearly do not at this time. Do you think they iron this out or it is simply a matter of the staff knowing what they have and using it accordingly?
Big P,
I think they brought in CK to chuck it long for a reason. I think that reason was to show Smith, either you do it, or we have someone on the bench that will.
BigP, I like your take on the offense/coaches. I don’t know why they wouldn’t trust AS, if anything, he is too risk averse. He’s only thrown 6 picks in 560 throws – he deserves for them to take off the leash (not throwing every down but 30 a game isn’t over the top considering the run plays that gain 1 yd) and it would build more trust between him and the receivers. At some point during the season and certainly in the playoffs, the passing offense will need to win games.
You mention CK, how does bringing him into a game help the offense? They are still having problems on 3rd down and in the RZ. Wouldn’t it make sense to work on those areas until they become consistent bread and butter plays that they all have faith in? They only attain that faith by practicing them and using them in games until they are successful. They now have MM and RM to add to VD, why have CK run a 6 yd option? We’ll need to see if they evolve over the course of the season.
Bay,
I agree that they brought him in to make that deep throw, it just seems odd that they wouldn’t ask their starter to attempt that throw, assuming he can. Are they doing that by design, or by necessity? If it is by necessity, I expect there to be a few more hiccups along the way.
@Big P,
Smith can make the throw. Problem is, Smith won’t make the throw.
I don’t think the Kap throw was anything more than trying to capitalize on the defense if they focused on stopping his ability to run. They had Smith throw about 7 deep passes, so it was obviously in the gameplan.
Hof,
The reason they brough CK into the game was because they saw a way to score, simple as that. You don’t look at an individual game as a way to prepare for the others or to work on things. You have to execute in the game and score TD.s. You work on plays in practice. I agree with you that I’d like to see them develop some more go to plays that they can count on, but the object is to score anyway you can and they saw an opportunity to do that with Kap in the read option sequence he scored on.
>>I think they brought in CK to chuck it long for a reason.
Nope. It was to tell the opposition, especially the opposition at the time, the Jets – we too have a running QB specialist. But don’t get too comfortable defending him on the run, because unlike you, we’re going to let him do other things.
ribico
AS’s arm strength isn’t the problem with the deep balls. He overthrows the WR. So, he has no problem getting it out there.
Maybe he needs to wait a little more before throwint it. And CK underthrew the ball. I’m sure he can get it out there more than not, but the fact is he didn’t throw it deep enough and AS throws it too deep. Puttting CK in there didn’t make the deep ball more of a threat at all.
DS, despite what those with the anyone-but-smith agendas say, kap’s pass had nothing to do with AS attempting or making that pass or not. It was all about sowing confusion into the opposition about what our “running specialty” QB is capable of and what we were going to do with him.
I see that Bay is showing off his mind reading and armchair psychology skills again.
I guess that clears everything up.
I as a fan knew that CK would do one of 2 things before the snap:
1. Run
2. Throw deep
And until CK shows me that he can read a defense and yes, check it down. Those are the only 2 things I’m worried about him doing. If he’s in the redzone, then I am going to All run Defensive mindset.
(Assuming it isn’t mop up duty time. In which case I’m less certain that he will be restricted to those 2 things).
FDM,
We didn’t run 3 running plays in the Viking game after KW’s kickoff return. 3 ran 2 running plays and a sprint pass where Crabtree was open in the corner of the end zone and Smith didn’t throw it to him. Smith close to run for 1 yard instead.
Jack and myself came to the conclusion that Crabtree was open but Alex didn’t pull the trigger. Nothing new.
23welcher says “Jack and myself came to the conclusion that Crabtree was open but Alex didn’t pull the trigger. Nothing new.
Well the mystery is now solved folks, Alex Smith is terrible. What was once a good thread of good football talk, 23 arrives with his same old song and dance. Yakety yak, yakety yak!
Thanks for the good football talk today fellas. Im out!
FDM,
I, for one, won’t miss you one bit. Be gone. Don’t let the door hit you in the Arse! Bwahahahahahahaha!
@ FDM:
The welcher had to start agreeing with Jack. Jack has been correcting him all season long. 23welcher has the all 22 film, but doesn’t understand what he is seeing. It’s easier for him just to agree with Jack.
Your right FDM, the blog a hole, liar and welcher shows up and just watch what happens. Negativity to its finest.
Fraud,
I actually pointed the play I’m speaking about to Jack. You Smithers are some real failures. You better be videotaping all these games from Smith. He’s about to come up missing around here. Smith is done. Do are you Smithers.the board is gonna be a different place without you fraud.
Jordan,
It’s all good. Rocket also confirmed this play. Unfortunately some of your comments are such that no one believes a thing you say. You’re a good guy to chat with when you leave the personal junk out of it and talk ball.
Bay,
This offense isn’t intended to generate big passing numbers. It just isn’t. Look at Luck’s numbers at Stanford and they pale in comparison to others around the country because they were a run first team just like the Niners are now. The offense isn’t broken. They’ve done what they wanted to do offensively in 3 out of 4 games.
I agree with BigP in that it would be nice to see them get a little more aggressive with the passing game early on, but it’s just not what they do. Some of the best moments I’ve seen from Smith involved running the hurry up in a 2 minute situation. He seems to function well in that situation, but the Coaches don’t do it other than when they have to. Smith can throw it accurately deep down the middle of the field but we seldom see them try it.
Lots of things I think they should do, but I’m a fan and they are the Coaches and they are winning games, so nothing to do but accept it and enjoy the wins imo.
That’s a cop out Rocket. This offensive machine is semi broken. They have no identity.
As for Luck at Standord, I’ve used that comparison before. Luck had several 300+ games and several games close to that. And he did it in a very run heavy offense.
We can all guess, but we won’t know until Smith’s replacement comes in and we watch the offense being run by another QB. My guess is the CK with a little experience would light the scoreboard up.
“CK with a little experience would light the scoreboard up.”
Yeah, probably along the lines of CN. Running/athletic QBs have a tendency to cause turnovers or get dinged. Everyone to date has been inconsistent. Not a good thing. TBD.
*Every one to date*
Except for one thing Hofer, it would be under Harbaugh’s guidance. No Harbaugh coached team even with a talent like CK would ever become unbalanced.
“it would be nice to see them get a little more aggressive with the passing game early on, but it’s just not what they do.”
They were aggressive with the passing game against the Jets, but Smith was not able to make the throws.
Bay,
They have an identity, you just don’t like what it is. They are a physical smash mouth running team.
Luck had 5 300 yard games out of 13 his final year in College. In Harbaugh’s last year he had 4. That’s in a season where 3/4′s of the games come against teams they could sleep walk to a victory over. Look at the passing attempts compared to rushing attempts and you see Stanford averaged 200 more rushing attempts than passing attempts a season while Harbaugh was there. I understand you are saying Luck had these games despite the slanted rushing focus but the NFL is a different game and they are running the same style offense with same kind of results they did in College. It’s a run heavy offense that uses playaction and short quick passes to supplement it. It’s not that far off of what Walsh did for most of his career in SF.
As to your guess on CK, there is nothing to back up your belief in that. That’s more of an anybody but Smith viewpoint than a factual statement. All we’ve seen from Kap is some great running ability and a strong arm. He’s not shown the ability to get the offense into the right plays on an every game basis, he hasn’t shown he can throw touch passes, he hasn’t shown he’s willing to wait for receivers to come open before running. In short, he’s not played enough to really give anyone an idea of what he can do long term and the reason is, he is still learning how to play the position at the pro level. He may get there, maybe even this year but he’s not there and really isn’t close if you listen to what Harbaugh said in TC.
@Bay; how can you say the offense has been stagnant because of the playcalling?
The last play of the 1st half against the Jets, not one reciever ran a vertical route. They played for the FG and Smith came of the field looking at Geep saying, what was that? In the 2nd half, they attempted almost zero passes. It was 90% running plays. Pretty obvious they wanted to grind it out.
@Big P; is it scheme or lack of trust? I have no idea but to me its the playcalling. If they are sending in two plays and Smith choses the least risky one each time, the coaches have to be aware and if the film shows open WR’s downfield and Smith is not getting it to them, then surely Smith would not be playing. Its not like Smith can be convincing them that he chose the correct play everytime. If he is that influential he should be running for President.
They are a running team and will rely on the run and the defense every week. It will be the same thing this week against a bad run defense in the Bills.
Does the passing game need to get better, of course but its week 5 and you guys are talking about the playoffs and thats what will win at that time of year. Not so fast boys, lets get there first and let the offense evolve. You guys are in panic mode too early.
Jack,
They also tried it in Minny with poor results. It’s not what they do. They setup the pass with the run. That’s their formula for success and when they stray from it they often struggle.
“there is nothing to back up your belief in that. That’s more of an anybody but Smith viewpoint than a factual statement. All we’ve seen from Kap is some great running ability and a strong arm.”
Rocket, YOU NAILED IT! What proof is there that CK would be any better other than hope. It’s the normal hyperbole and is agenda based. That’s all!
I cut myself off before I could finish that post.
They struggle with it, so it would be nice if they could turn things around and start quicker with the pass to setup the run in some instances.
Rocket,
The issue the last 2 weeks has been more with Smith either being inaccurate with the throw or in some cases not throwing it period. I have no problem with the balanced approach, actually prefer it, but the last 2 weeks Smith has held the passing game back. Receivers are getting open, but he isn’t getting it to them.
Jack, AS would have had a 300 yd game if the receivers would have held on to the ball against Det. Grant just mentioned in his current read that AS completion rate is about 80% without the drops and throw aways. Yes he missed some key passes and the refs missed some PI calls especially the two passes targeted to MM. Call it straight!
Jack the last two weeks was a reflection of the 49er formula and what they need to do to make it work. Rocket said it best, the run sets up the pass and they got away from it against the Vikes. They were within 4 against the Vikes and the defense layed an egg giving up a long drive.
Against the Jets they used the run to set up the pass but when the run game dominated, they stuck with it. That’s the playcaller and game plan, not Smith. He executed the game plan. The game plan was not abanded because Smith was inaccuate. Because he missed some throws the offense is broken, c’mon man!
The haters conveiniently want to put it on Smith but what they need to do is voice their concerns to Harbaugh. He is old school football, running the ball and playing good defense. This is his philosophy and they don’t like that. They like him and they like the winning but they don’t like the way he is getting it done, so the easy thing to do is say its Smith and that he has no trust in Smith.
Sorry folks, we are a ball control, limit turnovers, play methodical, close to the vest, good defensive minded team. It’s not flashy, you hate it but it wins games. Don’t hate the player, hate the system.
Hofer,
I am calling it straight. I couldn’t care less about yards. Should I be putting the missed throw to Moss, and the non throw to an open Crabtree on the coaches and receiver? (maybe the Moss miss)
Is it the coaches or receivers fault that Smith threw those deep balls outside the numbers too flat and didn’t allow his receiver the opportunity to make a play?
The opportunities have been there for the passing portion of the offense to cash in the last 2 weeks and Smith has been unable to deliver the ball accurately. You have been complaining about the play calling incessantly over the last 2 weeks, when in reality you should be complaining about the underperformance of the players.
Call it straight yourself.
Prime,
Who said the offense is broken? Of course the plan is to be balanced, which calls for Smith to be efficient to make the passing game go. He was ok mediocre at besy against Minnesota, and NY. Too many missed opportunities when they were there for the taking.
Jack, the 9ers lead the league in drops and you don’t mention it at all.
Jack, did those missed opportunities have any direct result to the game or game plan? Do you think that the coaches saw Alex miss the early throws and say, “we need to just stick to the run and get Kap in to spark us and Alex? Or was the game plan to just pound them on the ground because their rush defense was and is so poor? Your thoughts?
Jack,
No argument he’s missed some throws, but I didn’t see that as being as big an issue in NY as it was in Minny. If he hits Moss on that TD against the Vikings, it’s a different game. He had a huge part to play in that loss.
Against the Jets, I didn’t see it that way. They didn’t let him throw it enough to get into any kind of rhythm and it was obvious they were just looking to pound away with the running game the majority of the time. Personally I only saw him miss badly on one throw to Crabtree. The incomplete passes to Manningham were pretty good throws imo that were altered by the DB holding MM’s arm and should have resulted in PI’s.
If the point some of the hand wringers are trying to make is the passing game needs to be better; then I can see that and agree, but you have to look at it in the context of the individual game. Focusing on the effectiveness of the passing game last week is a waste of time. It wasn’t the focus of the gameplan and largely ignored especially in the second half.
If we see a game unfold where the passing game becomes a focal point, either by design or by circumstance, and they struggle or fail miserably, that’s when you worry. Continuing to talk about a passing game that featured 8 passes in a half is overanalyzing.
Through two weeks, the passing game wasn’t an issue. It was effective and the team was winning. Now after one loss, the residual effect is obsessing over that loss and forcasting the problems in that game onto the rest of the season. I don’t see that happening, but some do. I guess we’ll see which side is right over the next few weeks.
Hofer,
The plays that I am referring to were not drops, but that has been an issue as well. You are blaming the coaches for the passing game not being where it needs to be due to conservative play calling, etc, and that is inaccurate.
FDM,
Those misses against Minnesota changed the complexion of the game entirely. With the miss to Moss you go from being tied at 7 to down 7-3, then 14-3. The non throw to Crabtree makes it 14-6 instead of 14-10, or 14-14.
Against NY, it had no effect because the Jets are so bad. Their gameplan was to test Wilson deep, and they went after him starting with the first play from scrimmage, and continued throughout the game. Smith could not take full advantage of it because his throws on the vertical routes outside the numbers were too flat. The only time he took advantage of it were on the two corner routes they hit behind Wilson on throws to MM and DW, but the corner route does not require the same touch that the vertical routes do.
It was also obvious that they wanted to pound the ball. The CK plays were gameplanned. I think the CK shot to Moss was supposed to be the follow up to his option run, but his shoe came off. Read my blog post from yesterday, it gets into all of this and might answer your question even better.
http://ninerchatter.blogspot.com/
Your right about the Vikes game Jack. The misses did hurt but so did the defense giving up two very uncharacteristically long scoring TD drives.
The Jets game, he made some and missed some and to me thats expected in every NFL game by every NFL QB. I think we are talking about it so much is because there were limted chances for the passing game in that game, as well a,s it was followed up after the Vikes game.
“You are blaming the coaches for the passing game not being where it needs to be due to conservative play calling, etc, and that is inaccurate.”
Jack you are changing the subject away from your comment!
“They were aggressive with the passing game against the Jets, but Smith was not able to make the throws.”
Jack, here is a more fair assessment from MBarrows:
“In fact, he went downfield – throws of 20 or more yards – seven times against the Jets’ aggressive defense, most of them against new cornerback starter Kyle Wilson. Two passes were complete, three were incomplete, one drew a pass-interference penalty and one perhaps should have been caught for what would have been a touchdown.”
Jack, you state, “Receivers are getting open, but he isn’t getting it to them.”
How many misses has it been? How many drops the last two games? Yes, I think it was a huge miss by AS in the Vikes game not hitting RM for a score but it has been both an AS problem and a dropped ball problem.
Rocket says, “They didn’t let him throw it enough to get into any kind of rhythm and it was obvious they were just looking to pound away with the running game the majority of the time.”
Rocket, that’s not true for the first half when the game was still well in doubt. Roman called 19 first half pass plays, 18 for Smith, and 1 for CK. That is close to matching what he called in the 1st half each of the first 3 weeks. GB – 20 passes, Det – 16 passes, Minn – 22 passes. These numbers include sacks, scrambles, and plays called back due to penalty.
Im trying to understand something here boys. A lot of you have said that Smith cannot throw deep, specifically outside the numbers. Does Smith have the capability to win games without this throw in his bag or will it limit the passing game to a point that he needs to be replaced?
Hofer, my original comment was, “They were aggressive with the passing game against the Jets, but Smith was not able to make the throws.”
The answer to your misses against NY
4th attempt – inc on fade route to MM down left side – overthrow
10th attempt – misreads coverage and does not deliver ball to DW on wheel route with Calvin Pace in coverage. Was looking to Davis on seam, well covered, and sacked. Big play if ball came out on time.
11th attempt – poor pocket presence causes sack. Had he slid to open space in pocket he has Manningham opening over middle for 15 yards.
13th attempt – deep outside numbers to MC, overthrown, too flat.
2nd half
20th attempt – Walker on wheel with Pace in coverage again. No one over the top, but Smith throws it flat and outside causing Walker to jump and come down out of bounds.
There were a couple more but you get the point. He needs to improve on getting more air under the ball when throwing vertically outside the numbers.
FDM
The Niner offense mainly consists of power running and taking occassional shots down field. So far, we’ve seen much of a multi-dimensional passing game that attacks the entire field. Since the team runs only a handful of shot plays per game, then hitting them becomes critical.
* we’ve not seen
FDM,
Smith is 16-4 in the regular season, so sure he can win.
Again, the basis is my original comment was that it is incorrect to say that this coaching staff is not trying to be aggressive with the pass. The numbers over the first 4 weeks show that they are.
Jack, nice of you to point out the misses, but I said, “misses and drops” and you neglect to include the drops including the slant drop by MC early in the 1st qtr against the Jets that would have produced quite a bit of YAC.
Hofer,
There was 1 drop by MC and 1 by DW in NY. Did I miss any others that you would like to bring up?
Of those 11 drops Smith has “suffered”, I believe that 6 came during the Detroit game alone. The drops have not been the reason for the passing game being inefficient the last 2 weeks.
Jack,
Rocket, that’s not true for the first half when the game was still well in doubt. Roman called 19 first half pass plays, 18 for Smith, and 1 for CK. That is close to matching what he called in the 1st half each of the first 3 weeks. GB – 20 passes, Det – 16 passes, Minn – 22 passes. These numbers include sacks, scrambles, and plays called back due to penalty.
5 of Smith’s passing attempts came in the two minute drill at the end of the half Jack. Before that, they called 16 runs incorporating Kap, Manningham and Williams. The gameplan was to run the ball a multitude of different ways and try to pick on Kyle Wilson in the passing game along with their usual short throws to control the clock. There really wasn’t a concerted effort to take control of this game with the passing offense and they completely abandoned it in the second half.
Jack, there was also a drop by MM. If he runs through the pattern, it’s a catchable pass and a TD – it did hit him in the hand. I do believe the MC pass was a big play. He would have picked up good YAC if he hadn’t dropped the easy slant pass. I’m not dismissing the AS misses – the two against the Jets and the one in Minn. I just want to emphasize that the offense has more than one issue – misses, drops, playcalls, etc. JH says they are working to improve. Good times.
Rocket,
Even by taking out those 2 minute drill throws, which were called from the sideline it is still almost 50/50, 16 runs/13 passes (Smith). I don’t think that is enough of an imbalance to say, “they didn’t throw it enough for him to get into any kind of rhythm.”
You are spot on with the gameplan though, and that is what it needs to be every week for them to win.
Lets also not be to quick to annoint the new weopons as the saving grace of this offense. On paper and in the offseason I will admit it was a “no excuses now statement”. But seriously guys, Moss has been anything but great, he has not played much for whatever reason and its looking more and more like it was an unnecessary signing. At what point do we consider Jenkins and going full bore with Crabtree and Mario M?
We have not seen LMJ who was considered to be a good 3rd down back. I mentioned Jenkins who is better off develoing but if he can provide a spark, lets see what he can do. After that, what Niner on offense do you guys think can catch it and take it to the house? I say not many.
FDM,
Please give me 5 WR’s that you think can “take it to the house” better than Crabtree.
1.RoddyWhite
2.Julio Jones
3. AJ Green
4. Mike Wallace
5. Antonio Brown
6. Steve Smith
7. Desean Jackson
8. Larry Fitzgerald
9.Greg Jennings
10. Victor Cruz
“Please give me 5 WR’s that you think can “take it to the house” better than Crabtree.”
Jack, it seems you want to take this somewhere. Why not be proactive with a comment that we can debate?
How often do you see QB’s miss throws? Especially the elite ones?
How many times do you see WR’s drop the ball? Especially the elite ones?
Answer: Every QB, whether elite or not misses throws. It is harder to do than to catch it.
Prime
Well said. But if you are going to hate the sytem that gets you wins after a decade of losses, there is more than a screw loose in your head.
1.RoddyWhite – not in top 20 of NFC for YAC
2.Julio Jones – not in top 20 of NFC for YAC
3. AJ Green – 123 YAC yards
4. Mike Wallace – not in top 20 of AFC for YAC
5. Antonio Brown – 125 YAC yards
6. Steve Smith – 139 YAC yards
7. Desean Jackson – not in top 20 of NFC for YAC
8. Larry Fitzgerald – 109 YAC yards
9.Greg Jennings – not in top 20 of NFC for YAC
10. Victor Cruz – 136 YAC yards
** Michael Crabtree – 103 YAC yards**
Jack,
My rhythm reference was directed more towards the second half. He went 9-13 for 100 with a drop on 3rd down by Crabs in the first half, which isn’t too bad.
Great stats Jack, well done. The question was who do I THINK is better to take it to the house than Crabtree.
I dont base my opinions on stats. I formulate them by watching the game and witnessing the explosiveness and speed each of these guys have. I just dont see the level of explosiveness, speed and quickness in Crabtree as I do all ten of those other guys. I guess you could say I am going off the “eye ball” test.
You know that whne those guys have the ball in their hands, its look out, dangerous! With Crabtree, its one slow move and getting tackled.
FDM,
Too bad the stats don’t support your slanted view against Crabtree.
That list is full of guys who you are stupid if you don’t double cover. Yet they still get their own.
Do teams find it necessry to double MC to try to limit his production?
That is a huge difference between the two. They may produce similar stats, but that list of guys are ones who make defenses alter schemes for, reduce blitzing options, open up the field to everybody else.
@Jack, slanted might be a little harsh assessment but if thats your opinion, I will go with it.
Does Crabtree have big play, explosiveness capability? He might never get that chance in this offense. I like Crabtree, he is playing great this year for the role he has been given.
My point is I dont look at stats to formulate my opinion. I watch the games and see that any of those 10 guys has big play capabiltiy. Whether that’s the offense or system they are in, they have more of an opportunity than Crabtree to do that.So, I think that yes, those guys can take it to the house better than Crabtree. That I believe is the answer to your question.
I actually like FDM’s list. Those are all excellent receivers, and their YAC is similar to Crabtree’s because they all play out wide. If you study YAC, you will find that it is mostly RB’s who are on top because they catch the ball more often in space without someone on top of them and can then create.
That is why Harvin is #1. We saw it first hand, Minnesota puts him in the backfield to create space so that after the catch he is going downfield with his momentum and is thus able to make defenders miss.
Jack, YAC is only one component of being an explosive WR. I don’t know what “take it to the house” infers?? Last year MC was ranked 11th in YAC and the numbers you use above is YAC for only 4 games. MC is ahead of CJohnson in YAC this year, does your analysis presume that MC is better the CJ?
So Jack which guys on that list would you rather have than Crabtree?
FDM,
You’re right, it was a bit harsh. I like debating with you and apologize.
Hofer,
“take it to the house” means catching the pass and going the distance after the catch, at least that’s how I took it.
Prime,
None. I like the way the team is currently set up.
@whatnot
I must admit that your take has good credence but you lost me with K.Williams being more sure handed over MC.
How many passes thrown to MC has he dropped this season?
Maybe two. How many passes has AS missed to MC that may have accounted for more yards and TD’?
I agree with your assessment that both positions were explored and that the Org made a move in the draft with A.Jenkins and flirted with P.Manning to upgrade both.
I don’t see anyone of our WR’s having the numbers of Fitz, Marshall, and the others mentioned because we simply don’t put the ball in the air as much.
If AS only puts the ball up an average of 25-30 times a game our WR’s would need to average about 20-25 yrds per catch to have a chance at having the lofty numbers as the named WR’s have.
AS is the master game manager, and I’m ok with that because that system has worked.
But ‘whatnot’ we should not expect our WR’s to have huge stats when our system does not promote this.
R.Moss has become a glorified decoy in this system. This future HOF is a Farrari that is looking more like Ford Pinto.
During TC players and coaches raved about his speed and catching ability.
Did he suddenly lose that over 4 games? I don’t think so.
The system does not allow for a player with RM’s abilities to take full flight because our QB is not going to loft the ball 40-50 yrds in the air to him.
M.Manningham may be the WR to exploit defenses if he continues to build chemistry with AS, and I hope this happens. But even if MM eventually usurps MC as the number one WR, I don’t expect the big numbers that you see from Fritz, Marshall, and the others you mentioned.
Yes, our WR’s have made some drops, but some passes have not been accurately thrown as well. Hitting D.Walker in the face-mask with a 3 yrd pass is not exactly an accurate touch pass. MC and MM have broken open on long routes and have either been missed by an inaccurate pass or not thrown to at all in some instances.
Let’s call it like it is. Our offense has not found it’s rhythm.
Hence CK7′ entrance into the game last week.
Harbaugh said that CK provided a spark. A spark for what?
How-bout a spark for a sluggish offense.
There are a few areas in our offense that could use a spark. Definitely not just MC!
AES in your expert opinion, have the WR’s dropped more passes or has it been that Alex is less inaccuarte with the throws?
AES +100
Perfectly said.
Niners lead the NFL in drops. What makes that so horrible is that none of the passes were for more than 10 yards.
Article should read that Biners lead the league in Checkdown drops. Those drops are tough because they have a bit if velocity in them and they are only traveling 5-7 yards in the air before they get to the receiver. Good part is, none of the drops were touchdown passes. Now those overthrows that we’re potential TD’S , that’s another story!
Grant: if Davis has 22 catches and Crabtree has 9 more, Crabs has 41% more catches, not “almost a third” more.
Don’t be that guy.
ninermd says:
October 3, 2012 at 9:40 am
Lol a bay bridge series would be awesome. I wonder what kind of natural disaster the giants will pull out this time to try and stop those swinging A’s. lol
@MD
Great story MD, and congrates on an amazing A’s season!
It wasn’t the natural disaster that hurt my Giants in the last BaySeries.
It was the bus-lag from the long commutes (lol).
Good luck in the post season bud.
i too noticed more balls going towards Crabtree this season.
However, I simply attribute it to the way the match ups are playing out. Think about it, if you were defending the 49ers who would you focus on shutting down? Frank Gore to be sure. But almost as important would be Vernon Davis the Niners only consistent big play threat. Crabtree plays the Flanker/Z Wide Receiver position which means he lines up on the strong side usually with Vernon Davis (in a standard 2 receiver formation). Flanker routes are usually designed to work off of Y/Tight End Routes. Meaning if Linebackers and Safeties roll their coverage towards Davis, that leaves single man or zone coverage over Crabtree making him the more optimal target for a completion. In an offense where the Flanker is the primary threat (like in the Jerry Rice days) it is the Flanker that opens thinks up for the Tight End which is how guys like Brent Jones and Jay Novaceck found openings in the middle against slow linebackers or in between zones stretched thin because they were focused on the Flanker.
So I’m GUESSING that opponents focus on Davis is what is resulting in more throws to Crabtree. The hope is that Crabs becomes enough of a receiving threat that it opens things up for Davis. Also notice that when the Niners run two TE’s on the strong side; plays open up for Walker too (if he catches the ball). And even when Davis stays into block, I think the opponents’ coverage is still so focused on Davis that coverage on Crabs is looser than it could be.
FDM says:
October 3, 2012 at 11:09 am
AES in your expert opinion, have the WR’s dropped more passes or has it been that Alex is less inaccuarte with the throws?
@FDM
Well FDM, I’m far from being an expert. I’ll leave that to the guys who get the big bucks (lol).
But to answer your question I can give you my own opinion and you can do with it as you please.
Every WR’ has dropped passes with D.Walker leading the pack. Some I view as complete drops (on WR’s) and some I view as not Receiver Friendly (sorry, that was my best discreption) passes that put the WR in a bad position to make a catch.
Simply put. It’s a combination of both. But I do put the onus more on the WR than the QB if the ball hits their hands even if it’s a slightly inaccurate throw. The great John Madden used to say if the ball hit’s your hands it’s a catchable pass.
But the offense as a whole has been sluggish over the last two games. Against the Vikes the defense had an off-day, but the offense could not off-set that with a good game.
It’s these type of games that give me pause.
If our defense has a bad day, can our offense come to the rescue?
Except for CK’ spark last Sunday, the offense was looking inept and sluggish especially in the first half.
Harbaugh noticed it and made a call to CK.
I hope that MM can become the WR threat our offense needs. But AS has to step it up as well.
It’s time to put the new weapons to work!