49ers 23, Colts 26: Grades

Here are the 49ers’ grades after their 26-23 road loss to the Colts.

QUARTERBACK: A. Why do fans and media seem to root against Brian Hoyer? Is it his face? Is it because he’s not Joe Montana? Even when Hoyer plays well, like he did today, people criticize him. And here’s the irony: Those same people would praise his backup, C.J. Beathard, for the exact performance, just because he isn’t Hoyer. Hoyer deserves credit. He was excellent against the Colts, especially during the fourth quarter when he led the 49ers back from a 14-point deficit. During that period, he threw for 170 yards and completed two touchdown passes. He finished the game with a quarterback rating of 101.1. Had tight end George Kittle not dropped a touchdown pass on the opening drive, Hoyer’s QB rating would have been 111.1 and the 49ers would have beaten the Colts. Hoyer is not the 49ers’ problem, and he did not lose this game – the defense did. Stop blaming Hoyer for everything.

RUNNING BACKS: C. Matt Breida gets an “A.” He is a much better fit in this offense than Carlos Hyde, who was awful in this game. Hyde gets an “F-minus.” He gained only 11 yards on eight carries while Breida gained 49 yards on 10 carries. The Niners benched Hyde for long stretches after he dropped yet another a pitch from Hoyer. How many times has Hyde dropped that pitch since the preseason began? Three or four times? He doesn’t look the ball into his hands and he comes downhill way too fast, which increases the velocity of the pitch and makes it difficult to catch. If he were to stretch the play horizontally, as he’s coached to do, and reach his sprint spot, which is three yards outside the tight end, the pitch would seem softer and Hyde wouldn’t have to raise his eyes so fast to find a potential tackler. He wouldn’t be sprinting blindly into the defense – he would be forcing the defense to move laterally, which could create cut-back lanes. The Niners should trade Hyde before he shuts himself down with an injury.

WIDE RECEIVERS: A. No one on the Colts could cover Pierre Garcon. He was outstanding. The Niners should have called more plays for him, but didn’t for some reason. More on that below. Marquise Goodwin was outstanding, too. He deserves credit for his excellent 51-yard catch. Instead of waiting for the ball and trying to catch it over his shoulder as he would have done earlier this season, he jumped and grabbed the ball above the Colts defenders. He’s learning. Great to see.

TIGHT ENDS: B. George Kittle became Hoyer’s go-to receiver in the fourth quarter, catching five passes for 73 yards and a touchdown during that period. Kittle also drew a 22-yard pass-interference penalty during overtime. But his drop in the end zone during the 49ers’ first drive may have cost the team the game. That was his third drop since Week 3.

OFFENSIVE LINE: C. This unit gave up two sacks, but only five or six hits on Hoyer – I’ll have to check the coaches film in a few days to see exactly how many hits the OL gave up. When this unit keeps Hoyer relatively clean, Hoyer is more than functional. Unfortunately, left guard Laken Tomlinson committed a holding penalty at midfield during overtime, which killed the 49ers’ best chance to win the game.

DEFENSIVE LINE: F. Arik Armstead lost the game during overtime. He’s supposed to be a run-stopping specialist, and he’s supposed to set the edge, meaning he’s supposed to force running backs to cut back toward the middle of the field. But in overtime, he blindly rushed up field and allowed Colts backup running back Marlon Mack to bounce to the outside and run 35 yards untouched. When the 49ers finally tackled him, he was in field-goal range. The Niners should bench Armstead and make Elvis Dumervil a starter. Dumervil is a much better pass rusher, and couldn’t possibly be worse defending the run than Armstead.

LINEBACKERS: D. It’s painful to watch NaVorro Bowman try to change directions or run across the field to chase someone down near the sideline. The coaching staff finally benched him because he can’t do either of things. When Reuben Foster returns from his injury next week or the week after, Bowman should stay on the bench and Ray Ray Armstrong should start. Armstrong intercepted a pass in the end zone for the second game in a row.

DEFENSIVE BACKS: C. These guys gave up a lot of yards – mostly to T.Y. Hilton. But they didn’t give up any points. The Colts scored both of their touchdowns on the ground. So I won’t give this group a failing grade.

SPECIAL TEAMS: A. Robbie Gould still hasn’t missed a field goal this season. He is the 49ers’ M.V.P.

COACHES: D. Defensive coordinator Robert Saleh gets credit for benching Bowman, but Saleh should have benched Armstead, too. And Saleh should have had a better plan to defend T.Y. Hilton. The Seahawks limited him to just three catches for 30 yards last week, and they run the exact same defense Saleh runs. Saleh should have copied the Seahawks game plan.

Head coach Kyle Shanahan gets credit for benching Hyde, and for making Kittle a legitimate weapon in the second half, and for the first drive of the game, which was beautiful. But I don’t understand why Shanahan couldn’t get the ball to Pierre Garcon more than three times after that opening drive. Shanahan should have fed Garcon the ball until he dropped from exhaustion or the Colts double covered him. Shanahan let the Colts off the hook. That’s bad coaching.

The 49ers continue to lose games by three points or fewer, because they can’t finish. And they continue to lead the NFL in drops and penalties – they committed another 10 penalties against the Colts. They would be 4-1 if they were focused and disciplined. But they’re sloppy and winless. That’s on Shanahan. That’s bad coaching.

This article has 321 Comments

  1. I would give Hoyer an B+, because he had the opportunities to score TDs, and failed to connect on 2 of them.
    .
    This and his dismal 3rd down conversion rate, knock him down to a B+, although he did do statistically well enough to earn an A-.
    .
    Glad you did not give Hoyer and A+++. He still is 0-5.

    1. Hoyer was about a B. They had a good starting drive, but no td. Then fell asleep for two quarters before a nice 4th quarter before not getting it done in OT.

      Armstead is garbage.

      Comparing the Seahawk defensive coverage of TY is a joke. The Niner defense is only comparable in scheme.

      1. Yeah, it’s pretty BS to compare Seattle’s defense with ours. Carroll has 7 current and former pro-bowlers on his defense.

    2. Grant, you can try and prop Brian Hoyer up all you want, the fact is he stunk for 3 QTR’s again today. The 49ers were 4-14 converting 3rd downs, in large part because Hoyer missed a lot of crucial 3rd down throws, as usual.

      Brian Hoyer is an average backup QB, nothing more. Until this team finds a quarterback who can make big throws, and play consistently through 4 quarters, they are going to continue to lose close games.

      Penalties continue to be a major problem, and that’s definitely on Shanahan. The 49ers need to revamp their defensive backfield this offseason, and fix the interior of the OL as well, but none of it matters much in a quarterback driven league when you cannot count on your QB to play 4 quality quarters of football.

    3. It’s these ludicrous assertions that make you the clown, Seb.
      NFL.com begs to differ from them and so do I

      Top Week 4 QB Performers,

      Name Team Opp Score Yds Comp Att Lng TD Int Season Career
      Cam Newton CAR @ DET W 27-24 355 26 33 64 3 0 2 16
      Brian Hoyer SF @ IND L 23-26 353 29 46 51 2 0 2 11
      Jameis Winston TB vs NE L 14-19 334 26 46 41 1 0 3 8
      Andy Dalton CIN vs BUF W 20-16 328 22 36 77T 1 2 1 22
      Alex Smith KC @ HOU W 42-34 324

    1. Why should they care if they look like they are tanking? Their loses look legitimate. That is what is important. They are playing hard and remaining in the game while still losing. That is to their advantage this season and also a viable plan. Get it? This is also why they didn’t sign either Kaep or another vet this season. They were never really shooting for getting as many wins as possible this season. They can justifiably say they want to win- but only within their long term rebuilding mode.

      You and many other posters just don’t seem to comprehend their long term rebuilding strategy. They articulated it right after they were hired. They obviously explained it to York who understood and accepted it as a viable long term plan because he gave them 6 years. Quick short term fixes might get quicker results but are counterproductive in respect to long term foundation building.

      Their objective is not just to become competitive, but to build a team that will create sustainable competitiveness over multiple years and long term. They want to build a dynasty. Big difference in strategy. The situation in SF provided the existing opportunity to do this. This is seldom possible. To understand this you must have the ability to foresee long term consequences. The lack of that is also why people could not foresee that Baalke’s policies would ultimately lead to the long term destruction of the franchise.

  2. Glad I’m not the only one who sees Armstead as a liability. His body language after every play says it all… “Oh well.”

    1. Check Mack’s TD run. Armstead had the tackle for loss if he would have dived but it wasn’t worth the effort apparently to stop the TD… Dude’s effort is weak.

      1. With more snaps, Armstead will get better. He was converted from an inside player to an outside player, so do not expect him to have mastered his new position completely.
        .
        Armstead is strong enough to drive the blocker back into the pocket. He just needs to have better vision, so he can quickly locate the ball carrier.

          1. Maybe they should rotate him more, so he is fresh and rested all game. I saw good effort many times, but also a few whiffs because he was locked onto his blocker.

  3. If Hoyer was

    excellent,

    the nines would have won.
    I don’t think he’s the problem, but he definitely is not the solution.

  4. “Stop blaming Hoyer for everything.”

    Nobody is blaming Hoyer for everything. You, however, are making every excuse for him every week.

          1. I never mentioned Montana, you did. I haven’t criticized Hoyer at all today. My expectations were for him to be Hoyer from 2016. He hasn’t been that consistently.

          2. Hoyer should have a good game against a horrible Colts defense as bad as the Seahawks offense has been even they shredded the Colts defense. Grant you are pumping up Hoyer making him seem better then he really is.

              1. So far, the only guarantee is Hoyer losing the last 5 games. Kaep, with this improved roster, could possibly win, with no guarantee of losing.

              2. Look at Kap’s record for the last few seasons with a bad OL. You have made the excuses before. This team is barely improved and so far has not won a game. The reasons are not necessarily QB play. Kap struggles in all the same areas, sacks, 3rd down conversions, accuracy, drops. I doubt he’d have anymore success than Hoyer. In fact, he’d do worse.

              3. East coaster- Sebs point is that Kaeps mobility and ability to extend plays is a better option behind a weak line that say a purely pocket QB. Thats just common sense. However, the thing that Seb doesn’t get is that short term wins are not a priority in respect to this season.
                He is blinded by his agenda to validate that Kaep is not as bad as he was made out to be by many 49er fans. This is true, but he is doing the same thing that those Kaep haters did but just using the other side of the coin.

              4. Will, even if they signed Kaep, the Niners should look hard at Cousins, because he is more accurate than Kaep. They should also draft a QB.
                .
                However, if Kaep works out, they could use their first round pick to get a strong O lineman in the first round.

              5. Except WillTalk not all mobile QBs are the same (Russell Wilson vs. Kap). Kap moves into areas of danger and gets sacked or simply runs destroying passing plays as Moses and others have repeatedly pointed out. He rarely extends plays. This is a poor choice for a transitional QB and a waste of resources. He wouldn’t win additional games as other coordinators have figured him and his play style out!

                Hoyer isn’t a good QB but he is who we have. There are better QBs out there but we don’t have opportunities to land them or didn’t try to go after them in the offseason.

                Kap would be a step backwards.

              6. Kaep is different from most mobile QB’s because he is a long stride runner so it takes him awhile to get going & he’s tall and stiff so he can’t juke defenders.

    1. Hyde was not as good as his stats made out him to be. His numbers and long gains via running though huge holes in that one game skewered his yards per carry average. I have already stated that we should not totally judge a player by individual stats in a game but how well they made use of the opportunities they were given.

      Even using your criteria of him being good before he got hurt works against him. This is why. They made him lose weight so that his added quickness would fit better into their scheme. The loss of weight while making him better suited to the scheme would also detract from what made him productive in the past. This was his ability to break tackles and run with some power. The added bulk also makes player less fragile and better able to withstand injury. So his losing playing weight was actually counter productive since the actual results were——-

      Positives being —He was quicker and more suited to the scheme but still significantly slower than the other RBs on the roster.

      Negatives— He lost strength which effects his ability to break tackles and reduced his yards after contacts.
      It also made him less able to withstand injury because of his upright running style which was even a problem with his added bulk.
      So in fact the gains on the plus side did not compensate for the greater loses in respect to his negatives.

      The one big game and fan support tended to blind people to these facts. Logic should have made people realize that if any of the other RB’s had the holes that he had in that game their gain because of their added speed would have been greater since there were no yards after contact involved.

      The ” his being good before his injury ” is exactly the point. He could never stay on the field because he was injury prone due partially to his running style. This is why he is and has always been a risk in respect to reliability.

      1. Hyde has done more than those runs against Seattle. He scored two TDs against the Rams. He is usually a reliable receiver and blocker.

        He’s had big games against Seattle and LA. That’s more than one, as you say.

        “He could never stay on the field because he was injury prone due partially to his running style. ”

        Yes, you knew it, I knew it, Kyle probably knew it. Yet…

        https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/49ers-attempting-to-extend-contract-of-impending-free-agent-carlos-hyde/

      2. The two TDs against the Rams both came on 4th down. That’s two more big plays in my book. But they are short yardage, which also affects YPC. And our OL isn’t anything special.

        1. “He lost strength which effects his ability to break tackles and reduced his yards after contacts.”

          http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/110018-key-49ers-player-stats-overtime-loss-colts/

          How bad was the run support for the 49ers? Running back Carlos Hyde had just 11 yards on eight carries against the Colts. However, he had 16 rushing yards after contact, according to Pro Football Focus. That means a lot of getting hit behind the line of scrimmage for the 49ers’ starting running back.

        2. Now there you go with those pesky facts nobody is interested in….

          Remember it’s all about the FEELS, not the objective truth. He FEELS Hyde is a bad back, therefore he is. He FEELS that Hyde is weak and thus can’t break tackles, therefore he is.

    1. They have failed only if their priority was winning. If a team is 0-5 in the preseason they are not considered to have failed. In respect to this teams objectives this entire season could and should be considered in context with a regular teams preseason.

  5. “But I don’t understand why Shanahan couldn’t get the ball to Pierre Garcon more than three times after that opening drive.”

    Key words, I don’t understand. Glad you’re admitting that you don’t understand play calling. Garcon is heavily featured on the opening drive. Colts make an adjustment, which means other players (Kittle and Goodwin) are open more.

  6. Grant if we said before the game that Hoyer would throw for 350 yards and 2 TD with No INT everyone would have said we win easy. This loss is on the defense. They keep making horrible mental errors. I am not sold on Saleh. Players are killing the team with these mental mistakes. The talent on this team is good enough to challenge for the division but they have under achieved and that is on the coaches and players. Very disappointing. Shanahan is getting a pass. He is not tough enough on players that make mental errors.

  7. Cmon Grant, You’re embarrassing yourself. Stop reading your Dads Tweets & start following some of the other journalists who cover the 9ers. Hoyer had a good 4th qtr because of outstanding offensive scheme & great play calling. Hoyer missed multiple open receivers throughout the game. You blame Kittle for a drop but Hoyer missed that throw by about 2 yards. That should hv been an easy pitch & catch for an average NFL QB. Hoyer missed Goodwin by 10 yards on a deep pass that should hv been aTD. That was an embarrassingly bad throw for a pro QB. With even an average NFL QB the 49ers win that game by 14 points. At best Hoyer was a B-.

    1. Houston,

      Grant decided to blame Shanny for everything when Kyle embarrassed him in the preseason.

      His lust for Hoyer is anyone’s guess.

      1. Definitely think there is something to that. Even the most ignorant football fan could see Hoyer was bad most of that game. I guess Grant writes to prove himself correct and attack coaches who don’t do what he says.

  8. When you take a step back and look at how they play , it’s not just one play or player. At the moment they are incomplete.
    Who or what combination of players is going to make the difference is up to debate and that is the problem.

  9. Grant…once again great article…Did you see Rodgers torch the Cowboys to win the game? He does that routinely because he is great. If Hoyer could do that just once that would be incredible. Good QB’s have the ability to overcome penalties, bad play calling, bad defense..they make plays…They overcome adversity and pull out wins for their teams…Hoyer played great today and you gave him an A…Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, Phillip Rodgers are examples of players that should earn an A today…No A’s for Hoyer until he plays at a higher level….That pass that Kittle dropped was a bad throw…it would have been a great catch…The receivers never catch the ball in stride…they have to wait, reach back, or make leaping catches….His receivers make him better than he is…He’s been on 7 teams for a reason…Can’t take it to the next level….I give him a B

    1. IF IF IF. The fact is that Hoyer is not Rodgers. How many QB’s are Rodgers. Hoyer production in respect to winning games is less important this season that his ability to be a temp QB who’s primary purpose is to help establish the system. That has been his purpose from the beginning and he is doing that.

  10. Grant must have been watching another game.

    In the game I watched, Hoyer stunk up the joint through three quarters. Wildly inaccurate, he did more than anybody to lose the game.

    Kittle didn’t drop the TD pass, he wasn’t given a chance to catch it by Hoyer.

    Garcon was double covered after the first series. Jeesh.

  11. No one earned higher than a B.
    The penalties are NOT on the coaches. The players know the rules, it is their unforced errors that is hurting this team.
    I think it is time to bench some players for stupid mistakes. If that doesn’t work, cut someone

  12. For every great play the 49ers made, there was a combination of five poor plays, poor calls, poor decisions by coaches, missed defensive assignments, unforced penalties and stupid mistakes made by coaches/players.. The Colts didn’t win.. They were forfeited the win by a 49er team who found more ways to lose to a woeful Colts team..

    1. Hey…Did anyone by chance notice that our ‘old’ game-manager managed another win for the KC Chiefs ? Alex Smith was every bit the true #1 pick we chose in ’05….What the hell is he doing in KC ? Who sent him there, and for what reason ? The great irony would be that the Chiefs and the Packers meet in the SB and answer the question….Smith or Rodgers ? Well, we had one, and we’ll never have the other….Right…Montana finished his career in KC too…

      1. Smith is fantastic, but he wouldn’t be playing this well on the Niners right now. He’d be on his 10th offensive coordinator or something like that. Part of the reason he’s so good right now is he’s been playing in the same system for four years. He becomes really good when he knows the system.

        1. Can’t rule out the motivation that Mahomes has added. Isn’t a coincidence that a QB that had a questionable to non existent deep ball suddenly is tossing them like darts.

        2. Excellent point. Alex is very much a system QB who needs years to get comfortable in any system. He also happens to have a HC who caters to his strengths, and doesn’t ask too much of him. But hey, give Alex credit, he’s definitely improved his downfield passing game, so you have to ask if Mahomes is pushing him. Also, the Chiefs have always had a solid to above average running game, and Kareem Hunt/Tyreek Hill is an incredible tandem at the moment!

          Look out for KC! I have no confidence in the postseason version of Alex Smith, but maybe he’ll continue his downfield attack and surprise me? Chiefs have to be a solid favorite in the AFC, right?

          1. Smith was never able to throw deep because well he had no one who could run deep.
            Vernon Davis was the only one.
            Worse trade in franchise history!

          2. ‘scuse me…

            But you seem to be forgetting that Alex had to endure 6 OC’s in 6 Years…a system QB ? He had to learn 6 different systems in 6 seasons and with a paper mache Oline and no receivers….At least Mike Nolan was able to begin the process of building a Defense…had norv Turner or McCarthy not deserted the ship, Alex could have fulfilled his destiny with us…the team who drafted him instead of having to go to KC….

        3. Andy Reid has taken, Alex Smith, the scientist, and brought about his artistic awareness by purchasing a Mahomes. Alex is now painting masterpieces, instead of portraits….

  13. Glad I am not the only one that thought that “dropped” TD by Kittle was because it was a crappy pass. It would have been a great catch if he had held on. Hoyer isn’t the reason this team sucks, that is an honor that pretty much rests with the entire organization. Bad coaching, and miss management for years leading to a poor collection of players. Shanahan needs to get his act together real soon. Continuing to have the same mistakes cost your team victories is not a way to endear yourself to anyone. The honeymoon is going to end if they don’t instill some discipline on this team.

    1. A dropped pass is like the one that the Colt receiver let slip though his fingers. Not making a difficult catch that required leaving ones feet and stretching for a low pass is not a dropped pass. This is quite different from a pass that is on the numbers and or not caught because of a loss of concentration or running before securing the ball. That pass did not have to be thrown so low or that far away from Kittle. The error is on Hoyer. It’s location made that a very difficult catch.

  14. Hoyer wasn’t an A (unless we are grading relative to his other performances), but he was fine. Had some errant throws, had a couple of throws that could have been picks, but also had some very nice throws and in general did pretty well.

    The running game was very inconsistent, a combination of some poor plays by the RBs (mostly Hyde) and some ordinary blocking. Tomlinson seemed to struggle the most, but the OL in general wasn’t good today and was a large part of why the offense struggled to generate points most of the game.

    On D, the safeties and Dontae Johnson were dreadful. Funnily enough Robinson was actually quite good, as was Williams, but Ward and Tartt in particular were really poor, overpursuing plays or slow to come across, missing tackles. And Johnson also struggled. Didn’t notice Witherspoon when he was out there, which probably means he was ok.

    The front 7 (edge players) also had some issues with contain. Primarily Armstead, but also Lynch and the LBs. Armstead continues to just lower his head and focus on pushing his man back as far as he can, but loses track of what is going on around him.

    Buckner and Dumervil were good again, Mitchell had a few stops, and Thomas was solid but nothing spectacular.

    Yes, this is a bad team. And yes, bad teams lose close games. But there are also signs that this team isn’t far away from being ok. Keeping games close is a good sign. But the real question is – what will happen when they play a really good team? So far they have been fortunate regarding the quality of opponents. The struggles on offense, the way this secondary plays, and reliance on two front 7 players to generate pressure, makes me think this is a team that could really get itself blown off the park in the coming weeks as they head into games against the Skins, Cowboys and Eagles.

    1. Appreciate the analysis and intelligent post. One thing I think this team has that the last couple did not is a lot of fight. I still remember last year when Bethea said he was essentially working a 9 to 5 job (I don’t remember his exact wording, but it really irritated me).

    2. But the real question is – what will happen when they play a really good team? So far they have been fortunate regarding the quality of opponents.

      I’m not getting this continual line of “quality of opponents”. Not when 3 of their first 5 opponents are leading their respective divisions.

    3. Losing close games isn’t a sign of direction, it’s a sign of status.

      I’m certain that a glimpse at the jags, browns(and other consistently bad teams) over the past 5 years will reveal LOTS of close losses. It’s the calling card of a below average team. They can compete just enough to keep the game interesting, against other mediocre teams, but they lose more then they win and they’ll get killed against truly good NFL squads.

      1. “Other mediocre teams”

        Going by what you say, there are some mediocre teams at the top of divisions. Extrapolating your line of thought further, maybe the Niners aren’t that far from playoff contention (not this season), as they’ve played these (mediocre) division leading teams pretty close to a draw.

        1. Bad teams find a way to lose the game in crunch time.

          The 49ers find a way to lose the game in crunch time.

          The 49ers are a bad team.

        2. The Rams, Cardinals and Seahawks are mediocre teams. The Colts are a bad team. The only decent team they’ve faced beat them by 20 points.

          1. So that makes all 3 division opponents. As soon as Niners rise from sub-mediocre (not very long at all) they will competing in the NFCW. What’s with all the gloomy whining around here?

      2. I have watched a lot of football, in various different codes, and can say from what I have observed (and perhaps this is just my memory remembering only the times it has happened) that teams with a losing record that go through an entire season keeping the vast majority of their games close are more often than not a team that does pretty well the following season. It is a sign the team isn’t far away from being decent.

        And I highly doubt we will find teams like the Jags and Browns have played 80% of their games keeping the final score within 3. Or even 7.

        But we are only 5 games into the season, and the big question mark is whether the 49ers can keep it close against better opponents. I doubt it.

  15. Grant – I think most of your grades are on point, but it is starting to really get annoying to see some of your agenda items coming through any time you get the chance. Just stop man, you proceed to act like Hyde is not cut out for this offense and we need to trade him, consistent with what you have said all off-season, and that Breida is much better fit for this running game (it used to be Joe Williams).

    Why do you keep having these knee-jerk reactions?? I expect that from fans, but not from known media members.

    On the year:
    – Hyde: 65 for 321 / 4.9 yards per carry
    – Breida: 20 for 71 / 3.6 yards per carry

    This sure does not fit your agenda, why don’t you start calling out the full story instead of picking the stats for your agenda? For the short run, yes, doing this will create arguments and buzz and therefore more clicks for your article. But in the long run, if you continue this, it makes me feel that you’re not a trustworthy reporter, and the value of what you are saying decreases. It will start to hurt you overtime.

    1. Hanks– What is also knee jerk reaction is not recognizing that Hydes big game and numbers in that game were a result of the huge holes he had to run through and not his individual abilities. A player needs to be judged on what they do with the opportunities presented to them and not just their stats. if you use Hydes stats in a game when he gained most of his yards because of huge holes where no one touched him then you also have to consider his carries and yard per carry this last game when he didn’t have those huge holes and had to rely purely on his own abilities. Breida’s stats mean less because he did not have that many carries. Stats and numbers mean take on more weight over the length of the season. Take away Hydes two big gains and take away his two worst carries and that would give you a clearer picture of his actual abilities. His two long gains were less because of his abilities and more because of the open space he had to run in. Sometimes a player is dropped for a loss because of bad blocking. These things tend to even themselves out over time, but it takes numbers and multiple games for that to happen.

      You are also being deceptive in the stats you gave. They do not include this last game. They bring down Hyde ypc to 4.5 and bring up Breida’s to 4.0. Brieda longest carry is for 14 yards while Hydes was for 61 through a hole I could have run through. The other long carry he had was also because of a huge hole. Brieda was not afforded those large holes to bring up his ypc average. He had to do it a little at a time. Brieda has been more consistent and has made more use of what he has had to work with. Take away the 124 yards he got ( mostly on two carries through huge holes ) in the Seattle game and see what his stats would be. In fact even with those two huge gains Brieda still had a higher per run average than Hyde in that same game. Brieda would have taken that 61 yarder to the house because he certainly would not have been caught from behind. So you know what your can do with those stats you posted.

      1. I can agree with a lot of what you said, and I was not trying to be deceiving with the stats I posted as I thought that they included the numbers from the Colts game so thanks for letting me know that.

        With that said and as you mentioned, the numbers will work themselves out over the long run. IMO we are not working with a big enough sample size for either RB right now to make these kind of knee jerk reactions. Let’s see what happens over a full season before we just act like Hyde is worthless in this system.

        Hyde has received glowing praise from all of the coaches all off season and through 5 weeks of the year. Shanny has specifically said Hyde was absolutely amazing in a few games this year. So IMO, the beatdown he is taking from Grant and lot of people is unwarranted to this point this in the season based on what we know. I respect your opinion, but time will tell the full story.

  16. A rebuild of this team could take 6 years…

    SF has a one quality WR, one quality TE, one quality DT, two quality OT’s, one quality LB (injured), and All Pro punter and kicker… Other than that, busts and youngsters who may or may not be any good in the future.

    Lynch better get lucky and find much more NFL talent in later draft rounds

  17. Time to set emotions aside. Time for some sober analysis.

    1. Hoyer is not a terrible qb, but is also not the solution. He missed some wide open receivers and overthrew others.
    2. Our WR are decent, but we desperately need a true number 1. We cant go on with other teams discards and piece them together into a fine tapestry – kerly, garcon, goodwin, a robinson . These wrs would all be fine complimentary 2 receivers to the true #1 we need.

    3. Armistead should never have been drafted. He was a project with too many questions marks.

    4. We need an upgrade at S and CB. Reid’s seems to have one foot out the door. He is either injured and barely cares when on the field. Ward is mostly injured and a not a great S or CB.

    5. C Hyde has a few good games – a few mediocre – few stinkers and the rest injured. It is a pattern every year.

    The reality is we are slightly better than our record would indicate and we are playing better than the talent level of players we have. Time to start thinking about the future. We have to dangle Darnold to the Jets and Browns and ask for 2 number one picks to get him . Meanwhile we should sign cousins. There are a lot of holes to fill and we need draft picks to fill them.

    1. Agree with your draft strategy and to sign Cousins if possible, but like you said, we are better than our record shows right now. Unfortunately, it looks like it is going to be extremely difficult to beat out the dumpster fire going on in Cleveland for the #1 overall pick. I am guessing we will be anywhere from 2-8th pick, very unlikely we get the 1st overall pick though.

    2. Reid barely cares when hes on the field? I assume that’s because he busy protesting rt? Funny thing is he was our best db when healthy and probably having his best season…..don’t fall for the garbage you hear on Fox news and from the WH.
      Benched Hyde 2nd half, then brought him bk ice cold with a few mins to go…..absolutely genius. Benched Bowman midgame also, this team gonna turn on KS real quick. Ran all the vets out of town, and dogn the ones still here. Clueless……

  18. Grant is not responding…..he must be having dinner with Hoyer discussing the game plan next week against his future replacement…..

  19. Atta boy Grant, continue to side step the real scoop today….vp pence used our team as a publicity stunt today. Just like you ignored the trump attack on nfl and kaep last year. The following wkend when most of nfl protested in response, you posted Hoyers 5 best throws…..
    Considering ur mediocre journalism, it only makes sense that you have a man crush on Mr. Mediocre….otherwise known as Gabs 2.0

    1. Dude the NFL protest is getting laughed at…No one even knows what players are protesting anymore..Neither do the players themselves..go watch CNN and focus on how opressed you are and how terrible this country is..you and Seb go make up a list of unfair things in life you can whine about..man..gotta love the new generation of entitled cry babies..I’m suprised your even allowed to post on the internet in this racist opressive country….

      1. Laughed at? Funny, I find little humor in rogue cops who shoot unarmed civilians. The protests have drawn the ire of the VEEP, who staged a publicity stunt to diss them. The pushback on the protests just show how effective they are. The protests are for liberty and justice for all, and against profiling rogue cops who kill with impunity. Trump is the one who dishonors Gold Star mothers and heroes like John McCain, who endured years of torture, but refused to leave before every other POW was allowed to leave. Some one said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, so Trump, who was a draft dodger, cannot drape himself in the flag and not be called a lying hypocrite and a dotardly scoundrel, who wants to suppress legal, respectful silent dissent.
        .
        Trump is the guy who says he wants to make America great again, thus implying that America is not great. I think America is the greatest nation in the world, and just wants it to become even greater.
        .
        Glad you admit that there are racist oppressive elements in this country.

  20. Niners once again wasted a Time Out. Some day, they will learn, and then, they may actually win a game.
    .
    The continued blizzard of flags is all on the coaches. They need to instill better discipline.
    .
    KS seems in over his head. He should get help by obtaining an OC. The OC may devise better plays, and get the offense to stop the unforced errors. Heck, they may even get better game management. It was heartening to see them run the hurry up, no huddle offense. It was ludicrous to see them try to run a read option. They were fooling nobody.
    .
    Brissett showed why a mobile QB is desirable. He avoided the pass rush, bought time by rolling out, and delivered strikes deep down field. They ran the read option, and I even saw them run the pistol, so those plays are still being used, and are not obsolete.
    .
    I predicted that the score would be Niners 24-23. If the Niners had converted the 2 point play, and if they ran out the rest of the 20 seconds on the clock, the Niners would have won and I would have called the exact final score. Oh well.

  21. Can’t keep putting the tank in the abrams of the defense when the teeth won’t bite.
    Sign kap and I guarantee they will win 9 in a row

  22. I have not been wrong see all my mocks and you’ll see they should listen to me
    Grant, maybe they will listen to you and tell them sebnynah says be bold and sign kap

              1. Seb- Your perspective is myopic both politically and in respect to this 49er season. Probably because you allow your personal emotionally driven agenda do cloud your objectivity.

  23. agree with the general tone of Grant’s view but think some of the grades are high for a team which still struggles to get the ball into the end zone.

    0-4, but i continue to like a lot of what i see on the field – an offensive system that just needs some more talent, and a defense which fights hard…and also needs some more talent. the players are fighting hard, and I hope they and the coaches are learning as they go on. If i were to evaluate the team against the old standards – ie, what it takes to contend – the grades would be quite low. But that’s not where this franchise is right now.

  24. Hey Sebby..the rapper TI just held a huge protest against restaurants in Houston who he claims treat black citizens like 2nd class…You know the rapper TI who made his millions in songs about selling drugs and killing other blacks?Gotta love the liberals..Well he’s right cause I would rather get shot or hooked on drugs then get treated like a second class citizen at a restaurant…skol..crybabies

  25. This might be the best 0-5 team I have ever seen. Self destruction is the name of the game and the Niners have plenty of it. Mistakes has been the highlight of the last couple of years and will continue till some discipline is instilled. Its been a collective effort by all Niners to mess up, mistake after mistake. Can’t point your finger at one without pointing your finger at all.

  26. At what point does the bloom come off the Shanahan rose? The only reason fans aren’t ready to run him out of town is his last name.

    1. And because he has a 6 year contract in his back pocket

      Need to get bold and sign kap and not worry about tweets from trumpty dumpty

        1. Disagree, Jack. Games are much closer, hard fought and entertaining; albeit frustrating. But can they keep the games close against the coming onslaught of Washington, Dallas and Philly?

          1. “Games are much closer”

            That’s awesome. They kept it close against a couple of 1 win teams the last two weeks. YIPPEE!!!!

          1. Seb- I was defending Kaep against the haters on this site long before you even made an appearance but you need to stop with this sign Kaep nonsense. Your entire perspective is driven around your proving that you were right about Kaep. This is no different than the haters who were anti Kaep because they loved Alex or those that could not see out of the traditional pocket QB box. You might also add those that still have their lips locked firmly on Joe Montana’s rear. In that respect Grant is right about QB comparisons and it’s effect on loss of objectivity.

          2. Will, although they are saying the exact same things there are two Sebs on the board now. It’s best not to respond to either

        2. Uhh, the team is a heck of a lot more competitive than under those clowns. While the penalties are a disappointment, Shanahan isn’t out there dropping balls, missing receivers or getting burnt in the secondary. I’ll give him and Lynch another year or two to get this roster in order (thanks Baalke). Anyone expecting much this year was simply fooling themselves…

        3. Under Tomsula the average Margin of Victory was -9.3 PPG.
          Under Kelly the average Margin of Victor was -10.7 PPG.
          Under Shanahan the average Margin of Victory is -6.2PPG.

          Those figures include the net positive points on the wins. In short, this team is (despite its lack of winning) has been much more competitive over-all. But sometimes the small things get you and you lose.

          Or sometimes you just get lucky and you win. Your opponents may, in a season, gift you a bunch of wins. That happened last year with the Raiders who were an 8-8 team that went 12-4 and are 2-2 under Carr and, now, 2-3 without him.

          Because the luck (#1 in turn-over differential) that let them steal 4-wins over their base-line performance hasn’t happened this year. Now they’re 14th in turn-over differential and you can see the real Raiders. Not a very good defense while the offense, without all that great field position, isn’t scoring at the same rate. In short, the ‘everything has gone right’ ride is over for the Raiders.

          As for us, we’re in the ‘everything has gone wrong’ ride right now. So we’re losing close games instead of winning them. But we still have, despite being 0-5, improved.

          1. In principle you are right Moses, but the team is playing lousier opposition too. The Tomsula teams played better clubs so we aren’t comparing the same teams. Carolina, Seattle, Indianapolis, Arizona are way weaker than years past. The only team that has improved somewhat and only somewhat is the Rams.

            As the saying goes there are three kinds of lies… lies, dam$ed lies and statistics!

          2. Yesterday’s loss was really no different than the loss a year ago in Miami. Team falls way behind. Rally’s late. Loses. Same with the Rams game.

            These last 2 weeks have been close, but against BAD teams.

            1. “These last 2 weeks have been close, but against BAD teams.”

              Just glad I’m not the only one saying it anymore.

        4. 0-5 record aside, the 49ers are a better team this year, and far more entertaining than they have been the last couple seasons. Rebuilding an NFL roster is a process that takes time if done the right way. As far as I am concerned, this team is a QB away from being in the hunt for a division title. Yes, a QB makes all the difference. Personally, I am enjoying the competitive spirit of this young team and it’s fun watching young players like George Kittle (and soon Reuben Foster) develop into key players.

          That said, unless CJB develops into a franchise QB, there is one scenario that would be incredibly disheartening for me, if the situation unfolds: Mitch Trubisky developing into a top tier QB. That would be a really hard pill to swallow.

    2. Some of his play calls and the un disciplined nature of this team has to make you wonder ,but for the most part his schemes seem to really work just players not making plays..Alot of drops alot of penalties and throws way off the mark..While I understand your criticism I’m not ready to run him off just yet..All though I’m starting to believe Saleh is alot of talk and no walk,our defense hardly looks like all gas no brakes..Not by the players but the very conservative play calls..I would literally just kill this defense with check downs and underneath throws every third down,as Saleh goes into his prevent soft zones every time

    3. The only reason fans aren’t ready to run him out of town is his last name.

      Moronic fans maybe. Other fans know every rookie gets a season to grow into his position.

        1. Two previous coaches took a status-quo approach to a failing team. New coach and GM blow it up, because they had to, and are starting from complete scratch. And 5 games in to what is obviously a multi-year project you are here ready to pull the plug?

          Who hijacked the old Jack’s account?

          1. “And 5 games in to what is obviously a multi-year project you are here ready to pull the plug?”

            Show me where I said I was ready to pull the plug. The team is 0-5, and the narrative will be “they are rebuilding yet look how close to winning.” Yes they have lost 4 games by 3 points or less, but is that really all it takes for 49ers fans to be satisfied?

            The Browns, who are the laughing stock of the league have 3 of their 5 losses by 3 or less.

            Shanahan is getting the pass that Grant is referring to Hoyer not getting. And both are based primarily on their last names.

              1. Shanahan’s scheme is outstanding. The only thing I think Shanahan could have done differently is to find a better QB to run it than Brian Hoyer. I’m willing to bet Hoyer was not his first choice. I’ve got to think the 49ers took a run at Kirk Cousins but the Redskins asking price was astronomical. Other than that, you can clearly see this team is moving in the right direction. The 49ers are in good hands with Shanahan/Lynch. They need at least 2 more offseasons to build a winner.

            1. The shininess of the new coach has people chugging the kool aid like it’s being taken off the shelves but the reality is this team is just as talentless as the squads that came before it. The only position on the team that truly improved over the Spring is the WR core and they’re still only mediocre.

              This team is a hot mess right now and few want to call it for what it is. Instead they’re in full excuse mode trying to justify their own personal belief in the teams direction.

              When Shanahan gets Cousins the team will start to win some of those close games but until they get a legitimate defense they’ll still lose to the ‘good’ teams. Can Lynch draft a legitimate defense? He spent two first rounders on the defense and how are they panning out?

              1. Thx for checking bud. Had a real long late night getting the in-laws secured but the fire moved West and avoided most of Calistoga.

            2. So what are you talking this “bloom off the rose” nonsense for? Non- knee jerking fans know this is not a five game turnaround process.

    4. “At what point does the bloom come off the Shanahan rose? The only reason fans aren’t ready to run him out of town is his last name.”
      ~ Hammer,

      The honeymoon period for Shanahan is in full bloom. I did not get caught up in the Grant Cohn prediction of a 7-9 win season and those who did deserve the right to be disappointed.
      The majority of the faithful came into this season with the realization that it would take more than one year or 5 games to rebuild a 2-14 team.

      I’m not happy about an 0-5 team but neither can I ignore the fact that we are a few big plays away from winning 3-4 of those games.
      We are still in the pruning stage of cleaning the thorns off the rose – but if I don’t see an improvement by this time next season than Shanahan and company will hear about it.

    5. Trent Baalke left Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch with the worst roster in the NFL. The 49ers have 30 new players most of whom are learning new schemes on offense and defense. The offense has 8 new starters. That’s right EIGHT. On defense there are several new starters and a few players playing brand new positions for them. We’re 5 games into a multi year rebuild so it’s extremely early to be calling for Shanahan’s job. The hard truth is the 49ers now look like 2 wins is a real possibility this year. Next year is most likely big improvements but 6-8 wins should be expected. Then the year after that expectations should include winning the division and a playoff run. That’s really how the cycle of a rebuild goes most of the time.

      So to answer your question: the bloom doesn’t come off the Shanahan rose at least until after the 2020 season if the 49ers are not successful.

  27. Just imagine if Hoyer played on a team with real weapons and offensive line. No one on this team does more with less like Hoyer. Not since Jeff Garcia have we seen another QB prove, when things go well, he produces an air attack comparable to other top 10 QB’s. Does Hoyer have to rush for 100 yards a game on top of throwing for 300 yards to give the fan’s peace of mind?

  28. Armstead really has been disappointing. I’m not sure I keep him around next year if he doesn’t start to show something. The losses suck, but at least we are competitive. At some point I would like to see Beathard.

    1. Much like Tank his first few years, Armstead is not playing at his best weight or position. Having him play Leo is like forcing a square peg into a round hole. I hated the Armstead draft pick, but the coaching staff is not doing him any favors this year. I think it’s very likely he is gone at the end of this season, but then I said the same thing for years about Ahmad Brooks :)

    2. If Hoyer had been a little more accurate, the Niners could easily be 3-2, or even 4-1.
      .
      I see massive improvement, but the QB play is holding them back from winning.
      .
      The Niners are competitive, and way better than the last 2 years. Even with the 0-5 start, I think they can win some games.

  29. Man I’m thinking this is systematic racism..Navarro was benched for a white man Brock Coyle..I’m so sick of this racism!

    1. Baalke was emotionally disturbed and sort of reminded me of the obsessiveness of Don Nelson and the way he would become his own worst enemy. He should have stayed as a scout because that is where myopic attention to detail is an asset.

  30. To all you liberal idiots..Let’s not call them illegal guns..Let’s call them undocumented guns and let them be ok in sanctuary cities

    1. Please, quit being smarmy. We just had a massacre due to automated weapons, and your joking about them is beneath contempt.

      1. We will then you will regret it..And we’ll see how your Socialist liberal country runs oh I can’t wait…Oh we don’t have to.. justimagine a whole country like Chicago Oakland and Baltimore..Can’t wait

          1. Yes eaxactly..I’ll take Mississippi and Alabama over Oakland and Chicago..where people still have manners and stand for the flag get up and go to work..or like your liberal world where automatic gunfire …guys wearing dresses and government makes all your decisions is King?we will not give the best man the job just the guy we think deserves it..

            1. These people have had little to no life experience. They deal purely in theory and guilt. The most oppressive gov. in the world have always been Marxists. They usually end up like the intellectual left who supported Castro in his revolution and when it was won ended up being lined up against a wall and executed. Theoretically they were right, but the reality they failed to recognize until it was too late, cost them their lives.

    2. Diesel …

      I say this with much respect …
      Please take your political views ..elsewhere … besides ..

      It wasn’t the “liberal idiots”… who elected
      the pumpkin-head Russian puppet !

  31. Complain about the way of thinking that built the greatest country this world has ever seen so you liberal clucks can live in it and tell us how terrible it is right?Tell us how you hate the model that gave you the right to run your spoiled mouths

    1. I’m not complaining … it’s just that THIS isn’t
      the place for political rantings … and what you may seem to forget … is
      the fact that ALL kinds of people .. served their country ..wore the
      uniform … including those “liberal idiots” …

      What do you say to them ?

      and why is it only the ultra right wingers exhibit the most
      hate … for those who don’t agree with your line of thinking … ?

      So-o-o … tell me … HATE … is the new “American Way” .. ?

      no thanks … I’ll meet a person (first)
      … shake his hand … BEFORE I draw any conclusions …

      That used to be the American Way …

      (Until pumpkin-head showed his face)

      1. You mean like antifa?You liberals all complain about racism and violence but day after day liberals attack Trump supporters and say how white people are evil…..the things that make you go hmmmmm

        1. Antifa does not speak for me, and I hope they can become non violent, because violence begets violence. I do hope they can counter Fascism by exposing the hate and intolerance from the Nazis and KKKers.

          1. They are Marxists and will never become non violent. That is what you do not recognize. What is it about the slogan ” by any means ” that you do not understand? It is a fact that in Germany the National socialist party gained its support and power because it was the reaction to the threat from the left. The Weimar Republic was almost over thrown in and armed insurrection early one my armed Marxists. The brown shirts fought them in the streets to protect the republic. It was mainly because of that that they gained a lot of support. The right was a reaction to the threat of the left. The Weimar Republic was a very liberal government. It is generally liberal governments that the Marxists target. They did the same thing in Russia when they over threw the new government that allowed the freedoms that the marxist then used to create their power base.

            Marxist are ideologues so to them the ends always justifies the means. Ergo the slogan ” by any means”. This is the same philosophy that Stalin, Mao, Pot Pol used to justify their murder of millions to farther an ideologically driven agenda.

            1. Yeah, too many of the left don’t realze that Antifa are Marxist thugs. Even worse, it was Marxists that put the Nazis in power.

              Short version:

              The Nazis were, literally, nobodies. But the Marxists kept attacking them when they had rallies. This got the Nazis press (like the right wingers are getting today because of Antifa) for being VICTIMS. This pushed public support to the Nazis and they grew as the rank and file Germans knew about the hell-hole of Communist Russia and feared it. Just like conservatives, like ol’ Diesel up there, do today.

              The Nazis didn’t win the election (contrary to most myths). But Hitler pulled enough votes to be appointed Chancellor. As the Marxists kept up the violence, culminating in the Reichstag fire, it drove more people to the Nazis. Hitler declared, as Chancellor, martial law and, the rest is the obvious history most people know.

              In short, liberal violence begets a conservative swing in the general population. Antifa is, literally, turning all but the radicals against them and making some of America’s worst people ‘victims’ as they loot, burn, pillage, attack and operate under general thuggery.

              And it works the other way too. That’s ho w MLK won Civil Rights. Don’t fight. Don’t bomb. Demand your rights in a dignified, non-violent way and make the entrenched bigoted conservatives look bad.

    2. A little history lesson is needed. Over 150 years ago, we had a Civil War with over a million deaths of soldiers and civilians, over a little thing called slavery. Then we had a vigorous policy of genocide against the Native Americans. This exterminated whole tribes with forced marches that killed hundreds of thousands. Then we had a period in which Blacks and minorities were subject to segregation and Jim Crow laws, Women’s suffrage allowed women to vote in the 1920’s. Then a period of separate but equal, yet black men were hung just for whistling at a white woman, even in the 1950’s. During WW II, the US interned innocent Japanese Americans, succumbing to hysteria and racism. Interracial marriages were crimes 50 years ago. There are still laws and covenants on the books that exclude minorities from certain neighborhoods. It took the martyrdom of Martin Luther King to enact the Voting Rights Act in 1965.
      .
      Throughout that period, there were ardent racists and misogynists, and there are still some today. One even got elected. America does have progress that slowly throughout the years, have enlightened and elevated society to what it was in 2016. During that time, the United States fought against and defeated the Nazis and Fascists, defeated the Communists with ideals, and helped rectify a great wrong by electing a black president. Human rights, freedom and liberty has been promoted and enshrined as great accomplishments, with America leading the world to be more peaceful just and fair. Sports has led the way in desegregating society, with figures like Jackie Robinson, Tommie smith, John Carlos, Muhammad Ali, and now Colin Kaepernick, protesting for racial justice in America. Kaep may never play another down in the NFL, but his name will live forever in the seemingly never ending struggle for equal rights and social justice.
      .
      So no, America has not been a perfect utopia. Progress has been slow and difficult, and there still is much to do. Yes, America is the greatest country in the world, but it could be a lot better. There will be a day, some where in the future, when no rogue cops shoot unarmed civilians, and get away with it. Some day, people will wake up, and see the need for a well regulated Second Amendment, where people can have guns for legitimate self defense purposes. While also having sane laws that ban military weapons, so no lone terrorist can spray death for 11 minutes and cause 600 casualties. Some day, people will be free from the danger of 50 lb bombs and 5000 lb truck bombs.
      .
      Now we have a self confessed racist who has boasted about assaulting women, calling Nazis very fine people, and who stole the election with lies and foreign help, pandering to a bigoted minority, and squeaked in even though he lost the popular vote. Many have rued the day they were duped to vote for him. His promise for jobs was a hollow mockery, since he insists on firing people. Anyone who he dislikes he calls SOBs, and many of those SOBs voted for him unwittingly, just to vote against Hillary. We have been humiliated by putting up with such a bilious, bombastic, belligerent bullying, bloviating buffoon, who has destroyed all American credibility and leadership in the world. He is a true dotard, and a freaking moron(Tillerson).
      .
      Now he is under the threat of indictment and/or impeachment, and personally, I think treason. He will cling to power by wrapping himself in the flag, and his nuclear statements devalues his statesmanship so much, he is deemed unstable, incoherent, and dangerous. Wag the Dog is apropos, and the threat of World War III is very real, especially with another megalomaniac who lives in North Korea. He, who dodged the draft, may send out men and women, to appease his huge ego and try to save his presidency.
      .
      Russia is laughing at us, and Putin is cackling with glee to see America being saddled with such an incompetent, petty and undeserving Twit. His advice to our president? -‘Dont worry, be happy’.
      .
      My only hope for salvation is Mueller, and I hope he can make Trump’s storm prediction come true. I hope they delegitimize the election, and install Hillary Clinton, the popular vote winner, as president. She could then pardon Trump for stepping down graciously. Let him have his properties, just as long as he leaves the White House before shaming it even further. This will be a bloodless transfer of power, and a bitter repudiation to Putin. It would be poetic justice to see Clinton, who Trump threatened to lock up, allow Trump to go free from a long term in the slammer, in the interests of peace and justice. if not this scenario, Trump may descend into waging war to save his presidency.
      .
      Diesel, you may take umbrage and feel offended that some players are dishonoring the flag. Listen to them. They say they are not dishonoring veterans or hating America. These protesters are using the flag to symbolize that there are injustices, and honoring the flag as if nothing is wrong is tacit denial that things are not all rosy and fine. These protesters are fighting injustices and want to save lives. Conversely, you are fighting justice and do not care if unarmed civilians die. You may have a point if they were burning the flag, but these protesters are silently, respectfully and non violently exercising their First Amendment rights. Since now you know why and how they are protesting, this faux outrage is nothing but a dog whistle.
      .
      Since you say that I am a liberal cluck, I suppose i could call you an ignorant racist reactionary, but will not.
      .
      I will just say you are misinformed, and liberal clucks like myself have helped make America even greater, and some day, your way of thinking will be relegated to the dustbin of history. I think great social change and progress can be made through the ballot box, as a non violent peaceful way to make this great country even greater.
      .
      I hope Kaep registers to vote and votes in the next election. I hope you read more about history, and become better informed.
      .
      Now, back to football. Niners did OK, but I think they can be even better.

      1. Seb- I would love to get into a conversation with you objectively about history. You seem to think that your are the only one with a grasp. There is much about history that you have never been exposed too and unless information is complete there can not be objectivity. Other wise we fall into a prevaricated perspective. But this site is not the place to do so.

      2. “I hope they delegitimize the election, and install Hillary Clinton, the popular vote winner, as president.”

        While overall I sympathize with many of your sociopolitical leanings (when you are able to successfully articulate them on a higher than grade school level of thought that is), the above statement might be the most ignorant thing that you have ever written on this site (which is not something I say lightly).

        You do realize that there is no mechanism in the U.S. Constitution to allow such action, right? There is no federal “popular vote” for president — it is a creation of the manner in which election results are reported (as well as a creation of the overwhelming ignorance of the voting public). The reality is that there are individual state vote totals which can be aggregated into a so-called “national vote” total. However, that “national vote” total is not recognized by the election provisions of the U.S. Constitution and is thus neither official nor relevant to the selection of the president.

        If the selection of the U.S. President and Vice-President by the Electoral College were nullified, the individual states would have to follow their own election codes to select new electors to represent each state in the Electoral College. Most likely, that would mean each state calling a special election, and there is no requirement that such special elections be held on the same day in each state. The logistics and costs of such, as well as the probable confusion and ill-will that would be generated, make this course an unattractive option, especially at this late a date.

        If you want real change in election policies, abandon notions of nullifying the last election and look to the future. Of course, you would likely advocate the creation of an official national vote and base the selection of president off of that. That such thinking is the insidious remains of a failed populism movement form the late 19th and early 20th centuries would matter naught to you or the vast majority of the unwashed masses of the electorate as you march forward toward the tyranny of the majority that the drafters of the Constitution so steadfastly wanted to avoid. You and your ilk (which, again, are unfortunately the majority of the electorate) will never understand that the popular selection of the federal executive is anathema to the roles and responsibilities of the position.

        1. I should add that for those who will claim that Failed-President Trump is a result of non-popular election of the executive, all I can say is that you are as ignorant as The Seb. That there is no real national vote total does not mean that the current system is not subject to failed majoritarian practices in selection of the president, as each state’s selection of electors is tied to such majoritarian nonsense. Without the need to gain the popular vote in the various states in order to secure those states’ electors, we would be much more likely to eliminate ideologues as candidates and instead allow the states to select qualified individuals.

  32. You’re right this is a football sight…But for you liberals football is very violent and scary..We should ban it..Someone could get physically or emotionally hurt..And that’s just not fair damn it!

    1. Diesel …

      Have you ever thought .. that …just maybe ..
      you might be a tad shocked .. to learn.. that you
      and a “liberal idiot” … might
      share the same point of view on a few issues ?

      Try shaking his hand first !

      Besides … you avoided the question about the amount
      of HATE … spewed by pumpkin head supporters who
      honestly don’t trust him …

      So-o-o … where does all this hate come from ?

      1. MWNiner- Actually your remark is very true. Often people do not see that people can have differing opinions on how to come to the same results. Much like there are different ways to run an offense or defense. Football is much like life.

        I always try to look past the superficial and discern a persons intent or motivation for their actions. Just because someone claims to have the same objective does not mean they actually do. The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. We often have more in common with those that appear to disagree with us on the surface as those that superficially appear on our side.

        I remember a time when politicians actually recognize this and we were not that polarized as we are now.

        The same principle can be applied to the rebuilding that is taking place now with the 49ers. We should allow the new coach/gm the time to implement their plan. To be critical so early on is counter productive. Before we become critical of any plan we should first attempt to understand just what that plan is.

  33. Dolphins offensive line coach (and former 49ers offensive line coach) Chris Foerster showing his expertise with lines.

    I removed facebook video link because kids go to this 49ers page

    Stunning if its really him.

    1. Was Chris Foerster’s technique in the video inside zone, outside zone, or gap scheme? Sure wasn’t max protect.

  34. Hoyer is not a “terrible” quarterback
    Brandon Weeden is a “terrible” QB
    He’s actually been better than I thought.
    The drops and penalties are the story through 5 games and the guard/center play is killing the running game.
    To me those 3 factors, interior O line during the run, penalties and drops are the reason this team isn’t at least 3-2.
    Hoyer is not amazing by any stretch and he definitely gets the yips when there’s pressure at times. He can be inconsistent and I’m not the hugest fan…..but IMO these 3 factors above along with some questionable play calling at times by both Saleh and Shanny as well as some bad cornerback play at times mixed with inconsistent pressure and Bowman losing a step have been way bigger contributing factors than Hoyer to being 0-5. He’s played good enough to be a respectable 3-2. People blaming Hoyer are misguided.

  35. Grades are perfect Grant. Wouldn’t change a thing. Defense, penalties and some questionable offensive calls lost the game today in my HO. I can also think of at least four plays where our receivers were either held or interfered with without the refs making the call. Maybe it’s a vendetta against the team because of Kaep. Jees, he could be helping us to lose as if he was still on the field. Makes you wonder.

    On a side note, I can’t imagine the scathing review Seb must have given his hero Kaep back in ’13, when while steering one of the best offenses in the league against the Colts at home, he stunk his way to a 13/27 performance for a measly 150 yards, 0 touchdowns, 1 interception, and a crappy 49.8 QB rating and a 27-7 spanking. Now that’s what I would call inaccurate. Instead, Seb finds the irrational rational to accuse Hoyer of being inaccurate, even after putting up a 29/46 for 353 yards, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, and a 101.1 QB rating in a 26-23 OT loss. Puzzling. Close game. Competitive. The opposite of 2013. Yep, but that’s our Seb. Irrational to a fault. I’m sure back then he blamed everyone he could think of to explain Kaep’s dreadful performance. Can we all get a recap of your critique from that game back in 2013 Seb? Seriously, I’d love to hear the excuses. It just drives you crazy that your hero’s replacement is playing way better than you were praying he would, so your only critique is that if he was more accurate they would have won? That’s classic. I’ll take Hoyer over Kaep every day and twice on Sundays. Much better QB. If only you were a true Niner fan and actually pulled for them to win. No, on the contrary, you are drooling with the thought of seeing them lose so you can put forth your idiotic screed about your love child.

    Can you recall your editorial on that game in ’13 Seb? You must have really ripped the holy hell out of Kaep. He really did stink it up. Or did you? Come on, fess up Seb. Fair is fair. Let’s have a trip back into Seb editorial history. Can’t wait!

    1. Juan, that was the game after Kaep started the season passing for 412 yards.
      .
      Baalke did not retain, and let Riky Jean Francois sign with the Colts so they got good intel from the Niners.
      .
      Sure, it looked like they did not take the idea that the Colts knew the Niner schemes too seriously, but it sure looked like they knew what the Niners were going to run all game.
      .
      Yes, Kaep did not have a very good game that day, but they still went 12-4. They traded Parys Haralson to the Saints, and I said that it was unwise to let players go to an opponent they were going to play that year. Parys Haralson also gave good intel, that helped defeat the Niners, but the Niners also settled for field goals, instead of going for TDs, so that also hurt the Niners. Eventually, the Niners lost home field advantage to the Seahawks, and had to play them up north. If they could have gotten home field advantage, the NFCC Game may have had a different outcome. Still, the Niners were one tipped pass from returning to the SB.
      .
      One game does not define a season, and Kaep did play well enough to lead them to the playoffs. They beat both the Packers and Panthers before losing to the Seahawks.
      .
      Kaep was 243/416 for 3197 yards, 58.4% compl, 21 Tds to 8 ints and a 91.7 QBR. He also added 524 yards and 4 TDs rushing. yes, they did not get back to the SB, but 12-4 made everyone forget about Alex Smith, who also failed to get to the SB.

      1. They traded Haralson and all they got was a seventh rounder. To do that they had to keep him and another player they planned on releasing on the 53 man roster for a week. It cost them two players they lost through waivers that would have helped that season. One Harbaugh especially had plans for. All for seventh round picks.

  36. Boy, sure happy for Alex Smith. What another great game today. 29/37 324 yards, 3 TD’s, 130.2 QB rating. Best QB in the league. Without a doubt the worst move, not only in Forty Niner history, but probably in NFL history. We’d be 6 time SB champions if JH had the guts to stick with him, undoubtedly. What a shame. We wouldn’t have had to depend on an inaccurate, one read, too quick to run quarterback to perform an accurate pass, not just once, but three times. We all know how that turned out. If Alex were there, that game would have been what it should have been, a Niner blowout. Undoubtedly.

    1. No, the worst move in Niner history was trading Charles Haley to the Cowboys. Probably cost the Niners a couple rings.
      .
      Alex is doing well, but he still has never been to a SB, and since they lost Eric Berry, they might not this season, either. Sure shows how a good O line, strong RB, fast WRs, stout defense and competent coaching will do to help the QB win.

    2. Juanhunglo- Not really. it was the best thing that could have happened to Alex. The 49er team went on a downward spiral talent wise starting in mid 2012. Teams can do quick turn arounds even in mid season. Alex was better off with the KC. It was a more solid team. People like your assume that the team remained the same as the one Alex was playing behind during the 2011 season. I have often posted the differences in respect to the downgrade in both offense and defense. 2011 was a special season where everything went right until Gin was injured in the playoffs and even that minor change was enough to derail their run. There season of no significant injuries ended in the 2012 season starting at mid season. First of offense but then on defense when the D went from being solid to giving up 29+ points a game. The field goal kicker who had a career year in 2011 suffered from a groin pull and had his worst season ever. The 2011 team set a NFL record for positive take away to turn over differential. In 2012 it dropped by 19 . The special teams which gave them great field position declined considerable. We all know the effects of the loss of Ginn had in the playoffs. I could go on. Even the decline of the team starting in mid 2012 didn’t resemble the team Alex had in 2011 and the decline continued season by season. The idea that because Alex was effective in 2011 that he would have done the same in the succeeding years does not consider the change in the team. Alex was lucky to get out before the team declined. Anyone who was not an Alex fanboy would recognize that.

  37. Seriously an A for Hoyer have you lost your mind?

    He’s certainly not as bad as people make out but he’s a helluva jumpy bunny to watch.

    I swear there was one play last night where he visibly jumped out of his skin, like a startled horse, panicked then actually ran BACKWARDS for several seconds even though there was absolutely nobody in front of him. Any other qb would’ve taken off for a short gain yet hoyer freaked out and lost yardage for no apparent reason. He has absolutely zero awareness in the pocket. He reminds me of a busted kiddies clockwork toy with one wheel fallen off that just flaps around in circles for a while before ultimately falling over (or getting stomped on by the bored kid). It would be laughable if it weren’t so tragic to watch.

    But yeah, when he has a bit of time and manages to keep his tips in check he can make some good plays. I’ll give him another two games before he’s benched.

    1. Yep, Kaep would have taken off, and used his legs to gain good yardage and convert third downs.
      .
      Guess KS will keep Hoyer as the starter, but these next 3 games will be hard hard to win. They will be playing the NFC East. Too bad they will miss the Giants, because the Giants were in the playoffs last season and the Niners were 2-14. Now without OBJ, the Giants may not win very many games.

      1. Come on Seb,
        How many times did Kaep lead the 49ers more than 26pts in a game last year?
        He didn’t, his season high was 24pts.
        In this game Hoyer was not the problem, but that doesn’t fit your agenda.

      2. I gotta agree with you there Seb… there were several occasions where I did think if that had been Kap in there it would’ve been instant 1st down if not more.

        But to be honest, I reckon most other QBs would’ve managed to get something out of those runs. There were some gaping holes in front of Hoyer on several occasions, and the guy just choked. He sees ghosts where there are none. And he doesn’t see defenders where they actually are.

        1. The gaping holes were there because the Colts were scheming against Hoyer. Those holes probably wouldn’t be there for Kap. Teams routinely took away Kap’s running lanes and forced him to try to beat them with his arm.

          1. I’m not saying I think Kap is the answer. Not even that Kap would’ve done better than Hoyer did over the course of the full game.

            Not even saying that Kap is the only player in the known universe that could’ve done what Hoyer failed to do on those few specific occasions.

            Just that its incredibly frustrating to see a QB flap about, not knowing which ways up and which is down, and ultimately beat himself through his own stage fright.

            There were a couple of occasions where the announcers/commentators during the game repeated the phrase “all the time in the world”. (even with our O line!)

            Didn’t seem to help him though.

            1. I know you’re not saying that Kap is the answer. My point was that we can’t say that a totally different QB would see the exact same plays as Hoyer did today. The same as Hoyer would never see a defense leave a WR completely uncovered like Kap did in 2015.

              Hoyer flapping about scares me too. I get nervous every time he holds on to the ball for more than 3 seconds. I’m always expecting a sack and a fumble.

              1. #80– come on now. I have seen plenty of QB’s miss open receivers. It’s just that when you play for the Niners all your mistakes are magnified by the built in detractors that seem to pop up against every QB that puts on the uniform.

                I think Grant has a point about the standards that the Niner fans have for QB’s since Montana. Hey even Montana would not be able to live up to the his legend. It seemed to grow every year till people actually believed he never had a bad game or threw multiple interceptions in key games. Hey in the “catch” win over Dallas he threw three interceptions and had a fumble. He also played some really poor playoff games as well. I remember the unjustified flack Young took after he replaced Montana until he won that Superbowl. The 49er fans are just too critical when it comes to their QB’s.

              2. I think Grant has a point about the standards that the Niner fans have for QB’s since Montana.

                The 49er fans are just too critical when it comes to their QB’s.

                Perhaps.

                But it was Grant that gave Hoyer an A in his grades, leading to ‘the fans’ disagreeing.

                This is different to the fans giving Hoyer an F, and then Grant disagreeing.

                The truth is probably somewhere inbetween.

              3. I wasn’t simply talking about missing open WRs during plays occasionally. I was specifically referring to this.

                https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-kaepernick-has-no-interest-in-throwing-to-a-wide-open-receiver/

                The opposing D had so little respect for Kap, that they let Smith completely uncovered before the snap and during the play.

                “I think Grant has a point about the standards that the Niner fans have for QB’s since Montana.”

                No, he doesn’t because nobody has compared Hoyer to Montana except for Grant himself. I don’t think anyone on this site even predicted him to make the Pro Bowl. Most people predicted he would be a decent stop-gap, Some said he would be total crap.

                Decent stop-gap is the standard, not Joe.

            2. Brit, nice arguments, and they are hard to refute. We will never know if Kaep is the answer if they will not sign him.
              .
              You and I look at the play on the field, and see glaring deficiencies. Hoyer is pulling a Gabbert.
              .
              Maybe try CJB, since he is on the team and backing up Hoyer. Hoyer is pedestrian, and at least CJB is mobile, and can escape the pass rush. He still needs to work on his pocket presence, but every rookie needs to do that.

              1. Kap could put his foot in the ground and run 102 yards.
                Hoyer had his chance and it’s time to rid the stench and be bold. Sign Kap and save the season .

  38. Some of those grades are Crack-Pipe Grades:

    Hyde was met in the back-field multiple times because the Colts went ‘run first’ when he was in the game. Never mind that o-line missed quite a few blocks and allowed deep penetration or just got flat-out stuffed. No running back is going to do well when the d-line and linebackers are routinely meeting him in the backfield and every hole has a defender in it. Brieda had it far softer.

    Kittle did not drop a pass. The ball was poorly thrown. Some day you and the troll Allie should look up the scoring on what a ‘dropped pass’ is… When a receiver has to make a diving, full-speed leap to catch the ball inches off the ground because it’s so poorly thrown it’s scored a bad pass if it isn’t caught, not a drop. A drop is when you drop the ball on a regular pass that doesn’t require you to alter your route, reach behind you, dive to the ground or otherwise make some kind of extraordinary play to catch it.

    Saleh doesn’t have the players necessary to do what you want. Giving him a bad grade because he has two of the worst starting CBs in the NFL and has lost one of his best DEs (Carradine ironically) while playing Armstead out of position because he has no choice doesn’t make him a bad coach.

    You need to grade the coaches on what they’re accomplishing with what they have. Not what you wish they had. Not what Pete Carroll has on defense (seven current/recent pro-bowlers — Avril, Bennett, Wagner, Wright, Sherman, Chancellor and Thomas. I mean, how much crack do you have to smoke to think our defense, in it’s first year, massively depleted in talent with multiple players who poor scheme fits is going to ‘reproduce Seattle’s results?’

    Same goes with Shanahan. Hoyer and Young both play/played QB. Why can’t Shanahan turn Hoyer into Young and reproduce the offensive run from 1989 through 1996 where we #1 five of those 8 years? Give me a break. Hoyer is a journeyman game manager. He routinely doesn’t see open WRs downfield, like the Cardinal’s game which had two WRs clearing into the endzone while he went with the check-down pass. And that’s been going the whole season, never mind the stupid picks he threw the first four games.

    1. Hyde fumbled because he doesn’t stretch the stretch play. Bad fit.

      The ball hit Kittle in the hands. That’s a drop.

      The Colts have one weapon in the pass game — Hilton. Got to bracket him. Press him with inside leverage to take away the short stuff and play a safety over the top. Not that hard.

      1. The ball hit Kittle in the hands

        Grant, the ball practically hit Kittle in the feet. No way that’s on him (or Shanahan’s play calling, for that matter). It was an awful throw that you see any above-average QB make in the red zone week in week out. Hoyer struggled to make an above-average throw. That pretty much says everything anyone ever needed to know about Hoyer right there.

        This is all academic anyway. Hoyer is not the niners future. I think everyone, including Hoyer, probably knows that. Whether its Beathard, Cousins or a n other I guess we have to wait to find out. But its not going to be Hoyer.

          1. ok, but was it a throw worthy of an A-grade quarterback?

            I’ll give Hoyer credit where its due. He looked above-average, bordering on solid during those two TD drives to bring the scores level. And that in spite of the rest of the team doing everything within their power to shoot themselves in the foot and make life difficult for him. He did a good job on those occassions.

            But A grade?

            1. It wasn’t an A throw, but it hit the guy in the hands. Have to make that play.

              I don’t think Hoyer is an A quarterback, either. But yesterday was an A performance.

            2. Having gone back and looked at the tape the throw wasn’t as terrible as some are making it out to be. It was lobbed on the outside where only his guy had a chance at it. It wasn’t an easy catch but it wasn’t exactly a hard catch to make either. The ball was dropped in there and went through both of his hands. If the ball was fired in there, put in a place where he could only get one hand on it I would agree.
              I was more concerned with the number of open receivers Hoyer didn’t see than I was with his ball placement. As that tells me either he is not seeing the field or coming off of his reads far to quickly and needs to calm down.

              1. Shoup – Until you know the progression Hoyer is given for each pattern vs. each coverage, how can you, or anybody else, honestly say that Hoyer is not seeing the field or coming off of his reads far too quickly?

        1. kyle Shanny is lost……….

          if not careful he will lose the team……lots of young guys that will lose confidence in him very fast

      2. Hyde: 11 yards rushing. 19 AFTER CONTACT. That means he was, on average, hit 3/4ths of yard behind the LOS. The clear and unassailable objective facts support my position even if Hyde did make one bone-head play. Brieda had it easier. When Hyde was in, they sold out for the run. When Hyde wasn’t, they played straight-up.

        Kittle: First, it wouldn’t have mattered. The way he had to catch the ball would have been ruled ‘trapping’ as the point of the ball was going to hit the ground before he was ‘down’ and had the ball ‘under control.’ The unambiguous replay, plus knowing how receptions/bad passes are scored by the scorers puts me in the driver’s seat again. The fact is, you are fundamentally wrong on what a pass drop is. That was a bad pass. Second, since you are too busy trying to be right instead of fair I’ll quote the exact scoring rule:

        This standard says drops are “incomplete passes where the receiver SHOULD have caught the pass with ORDINARY effort.”

        Diving for pass two-yards in front of you while trying to scrape it off the ground before it hits is not ORDINARY effort.

        Hilton: If they bracket Hilton, it gets even worse. Plus you’d probably complain about soft-zone. And that’s not how the Seahawks did it, the game plan you endorsed.

          1. Bracket coverage is a hybrid between man and zone. It’s played in two styles are in/out and over/under. And that hasn’t changed since I last played HS football in the late 1970s.

            You may think of it as a man, I learned it as zone because the free safety, in zone, is what I played once I convinced the coach that just because I was related to a (so-so) PAC-10 QB he went to school with in the 1960s didn’t mean I could play QB…

  39. definitely smoking the c…k, if Hoyer is graded an A……

    I am not even pissed anymore…..as long as I keep hearing MVP = Alex Smith……it balances it out my emotions….

    I wonder where all those Alex Smith haters are now?…….probably stuffed with crow…..

      1. hallmark of lack o’ good rcvrs beyond Garcon– Failure of Goodwin/Robinson

        Kittle and Taylor are helping, but a good vet # 2 rcvr would really help– too bad Kerley’s not here– but a bigger possession style WR would help even more– even tho’ seemingly redundant with Garcon.

        perhaps Kittle as H back scenario…keeping Kittle as “move TE” and 2 TE sets used more often?

  40. After watching the game again I mostly agree with grades. I think that Hoyer is somewhat rated a bit highly by Grant.

    Having said that, he also didn’t perform as badly as some here contend and I agree that people want The Second Coming. Which is why Garcia and Smith were eventually run out of town even though they were actually very good QBs. Hoyer is not that though.

    He is below par. He will get the yips quickly and that affects his throws. This will affect every QB but it certainly disrupts Hoyer in a considerable way and it does so fairly early. To quote Grant, not good!

    Hoyer had a very good start and the throw in the end zone should have been caught by Kittle. It wasn’t the easiest catch but that is why they are receivers. The ball hit him squarely in the hands and it was a catchable ball. He should have caught it. Rookie mistake. They will make these and cost games. Stated as much earlier in the year. Number 11 dropped a catchable ball again too, Garçon was interfered with and not called. All these things cost first downs and field position and were not Hoyer’s fault. Having said that, that miscommunication with Robinson posibility, the intentional grounding and several missed throws seemed to be his responsibility. The missed exchange with Juice at least may have been partly his responsibility. So, there were opportunities that Hoyer missed too. I’d give him a B.

    The team keeps missing opportunities. Why does this keep happening? Too many new pieces? Many of the calls are against veteran players.

    I think they are not adequately prepared and this is because of a rookie coach. He may still be learning or may be over his head.

    Jack asked a question I have hinted at earlier, why does Shanny get a pass? I dunno. Tomsula didn’t. Kelly didn’t. Should Shanahan?

    The Niners are now 0-5 having lost to teams with modest records. They had opportunities to win in each of those games. That’s the plus side, but they keep losing and that is an indication of a bad team. It is very likely the team could lose the next few and be looking at 0-8. I would not be surprised if the fan base will grow very impatient and call for the rookie. Wonder if Shanahan and Lynch will relent?

    1. East,
      I agree with most everything you said and agree that Hoyer’s grade was slightly high but his performance was overall pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. He didn’t see enough open receivers for me to give him an A but he didn’t make any killer mistakes and put the team in a position to win. This time it was the team that let him down more than him letting the team down.
      As to the Shanahan question I think its about expectations. Shanahan’s offense is extremely complex and takes time to learn. In atlanta the offense under performed his first year and took off his second. And that offense had a very good Oline, a good qb, very good running backs, and possibly the best receiver in the game. And the defense, well they are putting journeymen out on the field for the most part and those journeymen are trying to learn a new system as well.
      Put in perspective, what is the 49ers position of strength?
      Dline? with no edge rusher?
      LB? no
      DB? hell no (cb’s or safety)
      QB? no
      WR? we lead the NFL in drops
      OL?no
      RB?maybe with a healthy Hyde and this is coming from someone who is a big Breida fan.
      The colts and cards were bad too but they are almost equal to the niners and had home field advantage…
      This is just a BAD team with little talent (bottom 3 in the NFL), however if they don’t show improvement by seasons end? I’ll be very concerned.

      1. Shoup,

        Sad reality is that there will be no quick fix. Those who were dreaming of possible playoff runs are seeing the harsh realities of the NFL. Our players are not that good. There are some decent players and there are players who are out of position and there are those who are hurt. All that adds up to a bad team. As you stated we need players we have some decent #2 WRs but we need a 1, and have for quite some time. The mistake was thinking Smith was a 1 not that he isn’t serviceable.

        If we can get Foster on the field the LB corps will improve. I have long carped avoid needing an edge rusher and wondered why we let Ahmad Brooks go. Would he have let Mack get through?

        Our DBs aren’t very good but the draft had plenty of good ones. Whom did we select? What has been his contribution? Robinson is a decent 2 cornerback but not a 1. We need a 1.

        1. Couldn’t agree more on the db’s. We went in to the season starting our backup db’s from last year’s horrid D.
          How we didn’t bring in more talent there is beyond me.
          Even taking Thomas, we had opportunities to pick up more help at that spot. This is actually a spot where the trade up for CJ could be argued against.

    2. The pass Kittle didn’t drop is mostly not a reception in the NFL.

      First, most of them don’t even get to the point of being a reception. Not even by guys like Jerry Rice. They mostly hit the ground. It’s just fans see the rare success and think ‘that’s the way it should be’ when, in fact, it’s mostly an incompletion.

      Second,, the point of the ball was going to hit the ground when he caught it because it would have been physically impossible for him to prevent it laid out like that. Therefore it would have been ruled a trap.

      Bottom-line he was lucky to get even the slim chance of catching that bad pass that he had.

      1. Your second point isn’t true.
        The ball touching the ground isn’t always an incomplete pass anymore.
        So long as he doesnt bobble the ball and if it only shifts in his hands upon impacting the ground it’s a catch and a touchdown.

  41. Shanny does get a pass. For one reason, there’s no one left for 9ers to hire. For another, he is a legit coaching mind.

    Tomsula was such a buffoon choice, it was laughable. That choice was all about snub of Harbs. This was Jed in action.
    Kelly was total and complete scrap heap. The Coach bought at Goodwill Store of coaches. Baalke in action. Destined to fail, projected to fail…failed.

    Shanny here for 6 years (well, 4 if he crashes and burns). Lynch with him same timing. So here for long haul. Going nowhere. So with this roster how can you blame them? Next year tho, different story.

    1. I think 3 if he crashes and burns. Personally I blame the York’s for all this more than anyone else. For all his faults, Baalke was a company man.

  42. “Trent messed that team up,” Gore said, per Ann Killion of the San Francisco Chronicle.

    Miss you and those “tired legs” Frankie.

    1. According to an interview the announcers had with Gore, Gore wants to be an NFL scout when he hangs it up. I hope the 49ers hire him because he’ll be a great one.

  43. Grant, if you get a chance to ask Saleh a question please ask about why the team can’t get off the field on 3rd down. They’re ranked 13th in yards per play on defense but yet are 30th on 3rd down percentage. Even the Patriots who give up a staggering 6.9 yards per play still manage to get off the field on 3rd down more often then we do being ranked 18th in the category.

      1. Off and def have same 3rd down issues, conservative playcalln and poor execution…..which is why Hoyer doesnt deserve an A, he is and continues to be a terrible qb in 3rd down situations.

        Why sit Hyde the 2nd half but bring him bk in cold during the final mins? And a vet like Bowman, if hes gonna be benched it should come between games, not during……the kind of move that will lose you the confidence of players, especially when ur winless. Very arrogant approach Shanny seems to have……

      2. duh…..SEA has good DB’s, so they can be mid-pack on winning 3rd dns.

        Hoyer is a system qb…system not functional, so:
        — Hoyer limited to OL run game futility and lack of good 2nd target beyond Garcon– Kittle & Taylor just starting to show flashes of good 2nd pass option…but other rcvrs can’t be relied upon. Time for rookie rcvr testing…
        — Hoyer will never be good enough to “throw” receivers open, especially when only 2 of them (Garcon+Kittle) can actually catch passes consistently…
        — Hyde starting to show his mid-season dropoff due to physical toll on him. Should Hightower be brought back? Brieda ok for “change of pace”, but Hyde can’t continue to be the sledge that wears front 7 down in 1st 3 qtrs. with Inside Zone.
        — OL can’t get the job done on Outside Zone…this is the major stumbling block that keeps rest of team winless…I see much PFF stat focus on their pass protect stats…but their OZ blocking dysfunction IS the MAJOR issue holding this team winless..
        — Hoyer will stay till last 3-4 games–assuming we’re still winless…then it’s time for live rounds for CJ.
        — Rcvr issues for guys not named Garcon, Taylor & Kittle– Robinson/Goodwin not helping– they might contribute when we have a functional stretch run game…but for now we need elusive possession rcvrs.– Smelter?? Hightower back for RB pass game? Got to keep O on field…do this with short pass game till run game gets better… (doesn’t it bother you’all that 2 of our 3 reliable rcvrs are rooks??)

        BAD BREAKS Excuses Dept:

        OL– Zuttah misfire, Fusco dysfunction, Kilgore, T. Brown and Tomlinson run blocking mediocrity– this is the major issue holding team back…
        on D:
        — Bowman needs to be platooned, but who spells him? Coyle??? Foster can help, but not at expense of burning him for this season due to his injury gremlins…need inside LB help!
        — Foster, M. Smith, Reid, and Tank being down is a biggie for D dysfunction
        — AA looks like bad fit…once he gets penetration he’s as nimble as a statue. Can’t change lateral direction fast enough…
        — Saleh doing OK considering ingredients…

  44. Chip Kelly’s 2016 squad, which was apparently terrible because the offense forced the defense to spend too much time on the field, averaged 33:29 min. Shanahan’s scheme has forced the defense to spend 34:55 on the field. Kelly’s squad averaged 19.3 pts per game, Shanny’s team manages 17.8. Yards per play is equal at 4.9 which was one of the stats Grant was always most critical of Kelly’s offense.

    So far, Kelly > Shanahan. At least we could beat the Lambs with Chip Kelly.

    1. All of that is true but it doesn’t tell the full story. Through the first 5 games, The average margin of defeat in 2016 was 14.25. The average margin of defeat in 2017 is 2.75. The 49ers have 259 more passing yards this year than last year but they have 123 fewer rush yards. The defense is giving up more pass yards but the rush yards against has gone down by 151 yards this year. In my opinion, Shanahan’s scheme is far superior to Chip Kelly’s for an NFL team. There are a few reasons why the 49ers seem to have regressed.
      1) Poor QB play
      2) Poor o-line play
      3) Too many penalties
      4) Poor secondary play

      Once Lynch builds this roster I think the 49ers will be much better with Shanahan than they ever could have been under Chip Kelly.

      1. You forgot:
        No DL QB pressure
        WR Dropsies
        Bad decisions by the new coaches/FO

        Plus I would rearrange the rankings.

    2. Going by the record in Chip’s first year at Philly, the Eagles should have won a Super Bowl in his following years.

  45. If crash and burn, I would predict GM goes first. Jed brings in new GM, that guy then fires Shanny. Jed really set himself up (and I commend the risk taking) by hiring his coach and GM as a set. I’m glad he did, but puts him squarely in fan ( and empty red seat) crosshairs.

    I love to see the Dough-Boy twist though, as his arrogance is what caused all of this, fundamentally. He both F’d up on his own AND enabled Trent. What a talent this entitled overgrown child is. Even his neighbors I’m sure despise him. at least the one on gazebo side. He’s got some soccer families really in his fan club too.

  46. Lastly, what is the real story with Hyde? I would love to hear Frank Gore’s honest assessment of Hyde. talent..probably yes. gamer or poser? Frank would tell you.

        1. Crab, do you know of a way to watch UCLA, USC and Wyoming games (or any college games for that matter) that have already been played?

            1. I still don’t understand why the Patriots would let go of what seems like the “heir apparent”. Brady’s playing great, but I suspect when his play starts heading south it will be like a rock off a cliff, or he gets injured and that ends his career. What does NE do then?

              1. Looks like Brady could play another 4 years.
                They won’t be able to sign and keep both guys so is it possible they let Brady go? I don’t think so.
                If the Pats are smart they make a deal with someone now for Jimmy G and get something in return.

              2. > What does NE do then?
                Here’s one scenario :)
                Brady and Bellichick will ride off into the sunset together in 3-4 years. Kraft will still be a billionaire with 5 Lombardis in his display case. The fans who have nothing in their lives other than Pat football will be left to fend for themselves……

            2. Guys the Truth of the matter is , penalties . Drops .

              Young team learning new scheme ,on both sides of the ball .

              Young ,and first time coaches .

              As a former player ,yes I put it on the players mostly ,drops are inexcusable period.
              Missed defensive zones or pick-up. Should be benched . Maybe they will think there jobs are on the line and play with fire .

              It would be nice to see them come out and play football , mistake free,no drops ,no blown coverages.

              Hope to see them put a game together . Where all facets work together . It just seems every week it’s one of them messing up , either the defense shows up ,or just the offense . Why can we see both show up at the same game .

              It would be nice . Offense, defense,and special teams in one game .
              Haven’t seen that all year .

              Yes he gets a pass this year ,(KS/JL) but they better shake a tail feather next year . Cause from my point of view ,we need help just about everywhere QB,rb,wr,te, lg,rg,c . De ,dt, mlb ,olb ,cb times 3 ,and safety . Did I miss any ?

              Love my 49ers , but dam , where’s the consistency of a team ?
              IMO this team is better than the last 2 years . Even as erratic as we’ve played ,we are more competitive this year .

              Waiting for a win

    1. There are other guys out there. OSU’s Rudolph is putting on quite a show. And he’s already advanced enough that he can make through progressions despite playing in a spread offense. At this point in college ball, the only QB I’d take over him would be Rosen who is, basically, carrying UCLA on his back.

    1. As much as I like a couple of the prospects this year Cousins is the smarter move. Proven NFL starter vs. draft crap shoot. No brainer.

      1. To step in right now and win, Cousins might be the best choice.
        But his age and the money and the possible regression in his play, I’d rather draft Josh Allen.

        Or offer the Pats Arik Armstead and a 2018 2nd for Jimmy G now.

        1. we need a fresh start……….they said the same thing about hoyer……”right now and win”…..

          Cousins without his two receivers from last year is mediocre/below average…..

          1. I agree One. I’d rather draft a top prospect or go with Garrapolo. He’s younger and semi proven and Shanny endorsed him.
            Cousins carries too much baggage for me.

            1. what do you think about Alex…….really happy for him….

              He looks totally in command…….

              I am picking KC to be in the superbowl…….”ALL IN”

              1. Like I said, worse trade in franchise history.
                Thank you Harbaugh for going with your gut instead of your head. DA!

          2. Below average? With a qb rating of 107.6 (rank 4) and top 10 tqbr? Damn, Grant was right. Anyone who isn’t named Montana is below average on this board.

        2. Prime, how do you expect Trubisky to play tonight? He was one of your top draft picks right?

          If Mitchell Trubisky plays well and the Bears get the win tonight, I think I’m going to have trouble sleeping? Ugh. That’s the one scenario that could throw me for a loop.The way Hoyer has played for the first 3 QTRS of every game, Trubisky-envy is not something I am mentally prepared to deal with right now.

          1. Prime Time is clueless thinking the Niners would draft Trubiscuit.
            King Solomon was the wise choice. Now if only they signed Kap they could win a damn game.

          2. 49, Trubisky played better than Glennon, but failed in the end.
            .
            Maybe he will rely on DBs tipping the ball to his receivers for TDs, but that may not work all the time.

  47. “the resignation of offensive line coach Chris Foerster after video emerged of him snorting a white powder with a rolled up $20 bill on his desk before going into a meeting.”

    WTF …..how come this is not a top story……

  48. With regards to Special Teams grade, and grasping for positive straws, I was pleased with their lane discipline on the trick play punt return the Colts tried. Sad sack teams get chumped by plays like that.

    1. I’ve only ever seen that type of play on a return when it is seconds before the end of the game. Never as early as before the half (IIRC when the play actually happened)

    2. Niners ST is ranked 2 (by DVOA) and 3 (by DAVE) on FO’s ranking system:
      http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst
      Richard Hightower and Stan Kwan have done a very good job so far in assembling and coaching this unit.
      I’d thought Grant would have written a piece on this unit instead of a defense of a much diminished version of Steve Deberg.

      1. A much-diminished version of Steve Deberg with iron-deficient anemia ….. even. If Hoyer could only stay in the locker room until the 3rd QTR of these games, his first-half Passer Rating of 54.2 might not be such a detriment to the offense.

      1. Yes, and that would be a minus on the grading ledger. But a shank is like an errant pass, they happen. Happen too often? Get a different punter or passer.
        Lane discipline speaks to good coaching and/or coach-ability of players. For one who critiques coaching so minutely that might have been apparen.

  49. We could be 4-1
    NFL’s Top QB performances, WK #4

    Name Team Opp Score Yds Comp Att Lng TD Int Season Career

    Cam Newton CAR@ DETW 27-24 355 26 33 64 3 0 2 16
    Brian Hoyer SF @ IND L 23-26 353 29 46 51 2 0 2 11
    Jameis Winston TB vs NE L 14-19 334 26 46 41 1 0 3 8
    Andy Dalton CIN vs BUF W 20-16 328 22 36 77T 1 2 1 22
    Alex Smith KC @ HOU W 42-34 324

  50. For the second week in a row, the 49ers had more than 20 players kneeling during the national anthem with their hands over their hearts.

    The Colts wore black T-shirts with the words “We Will” on the front and “Stand for equality, justice, unity, respect, dialogue, opportunity” on the back for the second straight week. The players stood with their arms locked during the anthem.

    Pence tweeted a statement in which he said he would not dignify any event that disrespects soldiers, the flag or the anthem.

    On Sunday afternoon, President Donald Trump said he had asked Pence to leave the game if any players knelt during the anthem.

    49ers Safety, Eric Reid said: “He knew our team has had the most players protest. He knew that we were probably going to do it again. This is what systemic oppression looks like. A man with power comes to the game, tweets a couple things out and leaves the game in an attempt to thwart our efforts.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/mike-pence-leaves-49ers-colts-game-protesting-national/story?id=50361001

  51. Seb,

    I win again, you lose.

    Remember during the summer your player crush on 49er FA safey, Lorenzo Jerome, while I touted the talents of RB, Breida, and you snarkily hinted that your’s was the better choice for those with any football acumen.

    Well, the 49ers waived him today…..Best not to fool with the bull, Seb, or you know what you’ll get.

    49ers waive rookie safety Lorenzo Jerome

    By: Chris Biderman | 1 hour ago
    http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/09/49ers-waive-rookie-safety-lorenzo-jerome/

  52. Wow. Rashard Robinson was the top rated 49er in the Colts game. He was better than in the game against the Cardinals, but really……

    Robinson – 85.7
    Buckner – 85.3
    Ray Ray – 83.7

    I’ll post the link below as it caused my original post to await moderating.

    1. To be fair, he actually was quite good in coverage this week. Most of the receiving yards came against Johnson and the safeties.

      1. He was better, but did you really expect him to get the highest PFF grade (higher than Armstrong or Buckner)? Also, didn’t Robinson have a penalty or two against him that kept Colts drives going?

        1. I thought he would be pretty high, but wouldn’t have thought highest due to some of his issues in run support and the PI. Though nobody was really excellent.

              1. 4-2 playoff record and a playoff rushing record and Kap remains unsigned.
                I thought this new regime wanted to win a damn game.

  53. So Aaron Rodgers the best QB in the league so must be the highest grade: A+
    and just one notch below him is grade A Hoyer???

    Say what???????

      1. So Hoyer was just one notch below Rodgers in Sunday’s game??

        Oh come on. If Hoyer was an A, the Niners would have won by 30 points.

  54. We’re in the 1st year of a rebuild. We have a rookie head coach. We have a rookie defensive coordinator. We have a different system. We have a new GM. Our wr’s are struggling. Our Qb is struggling. Our Oline is struggling. Our Dline is struggling. Our rb’s are struggling. Our Dbacks are struggling.
    Now. Even with all this struggling, they are trying. That is evident. And they really aren’t that bad. It’s a process. We have seen some players shine. We have seen some players have a more difficult time. We have seen some stupid penalties. We have seen some bs penalties. It’s a process. I could say Hoyer would look a lot better if more of his passes were caught. But that would be conjecture. The fact is, it’s a process and we’re in the first year of that process. Yes, we’re 0-5. And no one likes it. Especially the players. As for Kap? He’s gone and he’s not coming back. I don’t want Cousins. I don’t see him as a long term solution. After the bye week, give CJ a shot. If the situation warrants it. But at least let him start 2 or 3 games to see how he does. This is an evaluation season. That’s all.

    1. Wrong.

      Niners are on the 4th year of a rebuilding period. 3 coaches in 3 years…and yet the Niners selected the wrong coaches, again. Let the rebuilding period last 10 years, Cleveland Browns style.

      1. Sure, you can look at it that way . But getting rid of Baalke was what was needed the most. New GM. New HC. New coaching staff. New system. Yeah, you could say the rebuild started after Harbaugh. But that wasn’t rebuilding. That was putting temporary stop gaps in place. You could say Harbaugh was a failed rebuild. And you could say you’re full of bs. I’m going with the latter.

  55. Seb,

    I win again, you lose.

    As you extolled the supremacy of you latest player crush (Lorenzo James) over my FA pick, Matt Breida to the point of questioning my football acumen, I can’t help but notice who’s on the team and who isn’t….

    Lorenzo James was cut, and Matt Breida made 2nd string as a backup to Hyde.

    Counting Kap, Jarryd Hayne, Breida and Hoyer, you’re 0-4 on your predictions vs TomD.

    Maybe it’s healthier for you not to take on the bull, because you know what you’ll get if you pursue your prediction contest vs. TomD.

    You’ll come out the clown.

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