Seahawks hire Ken Norton Jr. as defensive coordinator

Oakland Raiders defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. during an NFL preseason football game against the Arizona Cardinals, Friday, Aug. 12, 2016, in Glendale, Ariz. (AP Photo/Rick Scuteri)

Sayonara, Kenny.

Just one week after the 49ers hired Ken Norton Jr. as their assistant head coach/linebackers coach, the Seahawks hired him as their defensive coordinator. Norton Jr. signed a three-year deal with the Seahawks on Monday, according to Alex Rozier.

Here’s a statement from 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan: “Last week, Ken was presented with an opportunity to once again coordinate a defense. Because of how we feel about Ken as a coach, we understand and respect his desire to pursue the position.”

Norton Jr. reunites with Pete Carroll, who coached Norton Jr. from 1995 to 1996 on the 49ers. Those two also coached together from 2004 to 2009 at USC, and from 2010 to 2014 with the Seahawks. Norton Jr. was the defensive coordinator for the Oakland Raiders the past three seasons.

This article has 192 Comments

    1. Viewing the Seahags from afar I always thought Cable worked miracles with baling wire and duct tape to keep a shaky OL functional year after year. False impression?
      I dunno, maybe.

        1. Please, you are SO WRONG and absolutely have no clue……Giants front office last off-season did not address its O-line, and coupled with injuries, paid the price

          1. You could be right. According to Football Outsiders, the Giants had the 15th best offensive line this season. The line allowed an adjusted sack rate of 6.4 percent with Solari as their coach. Solari will try to help a Seattle offensive line that was ranked 31st in the NFL last season, according to the same metric.

    1. I’m in the same boat. Lousy offensive coordinator who’s been run out of multiple jobs and a defensive coordinator who managed to accomplish nothing beyond spinning the Raider defensive wheels and got fired in the middle (ish) of the season.

      Add in all the players who’re going over-the-hill or have significant injury questions on defense… If it weren’t for Russell Wilson carrying them, I could see them being sub.500.

    2. Not so fast on the Norton hire, Rocket. That defense is Pete’s defense; it’s possible he’ll give Norton more leeway, but we’ll have to wait and see on that.

  1. I’ve got a mixed reaction…on one hand, you’ve got to take care of yourself; no one else is going to do it for you. On the other hand, where’s the integrity? You accept a job, and presumably make a commitment, and a week later, you blow it off? On balance, I’m not too sorry to see him go.

    1. Keep in mind Hags offered him a better job. If he goes back to position coach he could get stuck at that level. This way he gets another shot to try to prove himself as a DC.
      For Saleh, Shanny and Lynch it’s likely a no-brainer – “Sure, good luck.”

  2. Pete Carroll can make all the coaching changes he wants. The roster is aging and they’re up against the cap. The Hawks are done.

  3. with guys like Munchak and Wilks among others being discussed as possible ARI HC options and the turmoil in SEA,
    the odds for us moving up in the NFC west and being the most likely thorn in the lambs side would seem to be improving…

  4. I believe Norton would have been an outstanding addition as an ILB coach but i’m not so sure how good a hire he is as a DC.

      1. He hid his arrival and departure with a white box truck. Needless to say, the box truck will be the bigger headline in the news.

  5. No loyalty in professional sports. Not for a quite a while. I don’t blame KN for taking the job and the money. I do think Carroll gave the Niners the middle finger while smiling, laughing and chewing his stupid gum! Not much the Niners can do other than pin a large crooked number on them next year. Twice.

    1. I agree. They lie to you. They stab you in the back. They fire you to cover for their mistakes and incompetence. Take the job and the (likely) far larger salary because you never know when you’ll get the shot again.

  6. Now I know they’re just messing with our heads. We were feeling a bit smug with our fancy new quarterback and our productive rookie class and our (still) enviable draft position. Had to knock us downs peg.

    So the Niner brass talked Norton into pretending he’ll be our ILB coach and Assistant HC. Then they put weed in Foster’s car and called the Alabama cops.

    Now fans can safely go into 2018 with modest, realistic expectations.

      1. Agree, Wrote something along those lines in previous article. Paste italicized.

        Recently a female friend told me a story. (Mild mannered. Late 40s. Teetotaler. Never been arrested. Think kindergarten teacher). She was driving through Alabama with California plates. Going exactly with the flow of traffic. Gets pulled over by a police car. When she asked why, he said “you have California plates. Your probably a pot dealer.” (really)

        They cuffed her and made her sit on a a curb for three hours with no bathroom break (despite her pleas) as they tore her car apart looking for pot. Every once in a while they threatened her with jail unless she confessed.

        When they finally let her free, they threatened she better drive out of Alabama with no stops… or else. She was tailed while she drove out of the state. This happened two years ago.

        I’m betting Foster possessed pot, but if he says he didn’t I’ll give his denial due consideration.

  7. Does that go down as the shortest tenured coach in 49ers history? Oh well, would have been nice to get him, but no biggy.

    1. Honestly, I thought that was one Grant’s more crack-brained columns. But I guess ‘anything for the narrative,’ right?

      I mean, despite only having two good defensive lineman all season (one a rookie), one good linebacker (who missed multiple games and was a rookie) and a load of troubles in the secondary with bad corners, slow to develop corners and injuries through out the secondary, Saleh managed (all while installing a new defense) to cut the points-against by 97 points from 2016.

      That was 20% decrease in points allowed. So, naturally, his job was in jeopardy. Because taking the worst defense in the NFL that, from early in the season, was substantially impacted with injuries, and making it 20% better is clear incompetence… :eyeroll:

      1. Also, FWIW, the RAiders gave up just 10 fewer points and 24 fewer yards. But the 49ers defense faced 180 drives to the Raiders 166. On a drive-per-drive basis, the 49ers were better. And that, as I pointed out, was from a less-talented, less experienced roster.

        So, yeah… Saleh was lucky to avoid being fired… Just saying…

  8. 1. I guess the niners need to hire another replacement for Saleh.
    2. Seahawks are finished. They never recovered from the loss of beast mode.
    3. Now their expensive D is a year older and slower .
    4. Sherman will never be the same after Achilles

  9. I don’t think this would be too shabby of a draft:

    Round 1 Pick 9: Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame (B+)
    Round 2 Pick 28: Marcus Davenport, DE, Texas-San Antonio (B-)
    Round 3 Pick 6: Dallas Goedert, TE, South Dakota State (A-)
    Round 3 Pick 10: Isaiah Oliver, CB, Colorado (A-)
    Round 4 Pick 29: Nyheim Hines, RB, North Carolina State (A+)
    Round 5 Pick 6: Azeem Victor, ILB, Washington (B+)
    Round 6 Pick 10: Darren Carrington II, WR, Utah (A)
    Round 7 Pick 9: Dimitri Flowers, FB, Oklahoma (A+)
    Round 7 Pick 22: Kolton Miller, OT, UCLA (A-)

    1. Not shabby, but also probably unlikely. I just don’t see Nelson falling that far or Davenport falling that far.

      1. I could see Nelson galloping that far. Guards just don’t get that kind of love. Davenport and Oliver are borderline firsts so it’s tough to see both of those dropping. All in all this is another perfect storm draft.
        Worst case scenario for SF is 2qbs taken, Chubb, Key, Nelson, Jackson, Barkley, Brown, Sutton all gone.
        That’s one if the terrible scenarios where I could have seen them taking Smith.

    2. Razor…

      So, in your opinion, what’s it gonna’ take to have a shot at Quenton Nelson ? Who’s gonna’ want to trade down in order for him to become a niner ? Is it even realistic to be pulling to get him when we know that the Giants and several other teams (picking before us) also covet him ? Who’s gonna’ be ‘next man up’ when he’s picked ? Who are the next three OG prospects that we should be concentrating on NOW instead of crying over Nelson ? Should we be concentrating on McGlinchey or the big OT from Texas ….or the other Prospects now that we KNOW that Nelson is ‘Pie in the Sky’ ?…Don’t get me wrong, I want him too…but let’s get realistic….waddya’ say ?

      1. So, in your opinion, what’s it gonna’ take to have a shot at Quenton Nelson ?

        A run on quarterbacks.

        Is it even realistic to be pulling to get him when we know that the Giants and several other teams (picking before us) also covet him ?

        I think there’s a realistic shot he’s there, because Zach Martin was at 16. Nelson, in my layman’s opinion is better. Remember a lot of people didn’t think Buckner would last until pick 7, and he did. So there is a chance.

        Who are the next three OG prospects that we should be concentrating on NOW instead of crying over Nelson ?

        Welp, with respect to the draft, you’ve got Price, C/OG, Ohio State, late 1st, early 2nd round. Wynn, OT/OG, Georgia, 3rd round. Frank Ragnow, C/OG, Arkansas. Brian Allen, C/OG, Michigan St. Mason Cole, C/OG, Michigan. Then you’ve got a guy like, James Daniels, C, Iowa, that comes with some medical concerns. Sam Jones, OG, Arizona St., that didn’t give up a QB hit or sack all season. Wyatt Teller, OG, Va Tech. Brendan Mahon, OG, Penn St. I haven’t really had a chance to delve into a lot of these later round prospects. With respect to F/A, Norwell, OG, Panthers might be a possibility.

        Yea, I think McGlinchey is the safest OT in the draft, but I have my doubts he could be a viable OG. Maybe he can, just not sure. Williams is a guy a lot of people like, but again, there’s durability questions with him.

        I’ll keep plugging away, as will others like Scooter, who’s better at this than I am, but thanks for your interest in my opinion, OregoNiner….

  10. I know alot of you guys are really big on Nelson, but if it’s me, I’m taking Josh Johnson at 9/10.. Iowa CB. We passed on the likes of Marshawn Lattimore, let’s not do it again..

    1. Who the hell is that? I think you mean Josh Jackson. He’d be a good pick, but the thing is, there’s some depth at the position, whereas, Nelson is an elite prospect that is rare. He’s better than Zack Martin coming out….

      1. Razor.. My bad, lol. I agree on Nelson, but at the same time, we are looking at an elite prospect at CB as well. Now if Nelson was a LT, I would definitely jump on it, but we get so toasted on the outside on D, but we also got roughed up in the middle of the O as well. So I guess on its on preference.

        1. Here’s something else to consider. I think we all agree to build inside out, which is one reason why Thomas was the pick. Our run defense was a broken dam. Conversely, our interior line is porous, we face Donald twice a year, and we have a pretty quarterback that’s pretty damn good. Now, we’re set at both offensive tackle positions with Staley and Brown. If we were to draft a LT with the first pick like you’re froggy about, where’s he gonna play? You gonna put him at guard? These guys are usually pretty f-ing tall, so it’s not like it would be an ideal fit. Maybe you draft a LT later, and develop him to take over in a year or so. I don’t know. I’m just thinking out loud….

              1. Yes and no because Lynch and Shanahan’s hand could be forced to address OT if Brown shows up out of condition.

            1. Yeah… AFter 2018. But I’m no so sure I’d mind if he does. Lot of talent, but the discipline to harness that talent doesn’t really seem to be there. And he’s not particularly a great fit for Shanahan’s office.

          1. You are correct, building up front will help us immensely. Especially with Jimmy back there to protect. But also, I don’t think Kyle is all in with Trent Brown. If I remember correctly, Maiocco saying that the coaching staff was disappointed that he went on IR. Maybe a new RT is coming. Hopefully Garnett will also be better. Him and Nelson could help form a good line.

            1. I’m starting to get a bad feeling about Garnett. He’s the one they’re for sure down on, because he could have returned from his injury. As for Brown, he’s very good at pass pro. His problem is blocking on the move in the run game. I don’t know for sure if Shanny is disenchanted with Trent….

              1. Either way the team needs to leave the draft with a tackle. One to possibly replace Brown or Staley in the future.

              2. Razor,
                Why are getting ” bad feeling about Garnett”?
                https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11/22/why-49ers-believe-in-ex-stanford-stars-solomon-thomas-joshua-garnett/
                “We took a long-term view with Josh,” Lynch said. “It could have been something where we put him on designated to return (from injured reserve). But we said let’s give the guy an opportunity to really get this thing right. We felt it would have been rushing it, given the information we had. We said this guy is not just a first-round pick but somebody we watched and feel could be a nice fit with what we do.”

              3. Any time a coaching staff would rather a player spend a year transforming their body to fit the system you had better believe he wasn’t impressing them the way he was. I don’t think anyone should be confident that Garnett will be a good starting calibre OL for the 49ers just now. Maybe his transformation works out, but it isn’t a good sign the coaches thought this was the best course of action.

              4. I get scared any time a coach feels the need to praise players.
                Remember this nugget
                “A.J. Jenkins was an outstanding football player when he got here. His progress has been very, very good and exceeded expectations.”
                or
                “Jonathan Martin has done very well, been a great addition to our football team,”
                Some coaches only sing praises… if a player can’t crack the starting lineup or a team desperate for healthy linemen decides they are better without them, it should speak volumes.

              5. Mood, Scooter pretty much summed up my trepidations regarding Garnett. Hopefully he works out, but I don’t have the confidence that he will….

            2. Ok. I was hoping to hear some specific shortcomings based on film study, not speculations based on change in body fat, and how Harbaugh used to lie about a receiver who was a bust.
              Considering that just over 50% of players drafted in the first two rounds are playing for their original team in their fifth year in the league, it’s 50-50 chance Garnett will “fail”. But I was wondering about his shortcomings. I know that in college he was strong and showed athleticism in running downfield on second-level blocks. But he did play with extra weight in the Stanford’s power scheme. He also showed good knee bend. He was an adequate pass protector in college. Maybe he has issues with balance and sideways movement. We will know whether his pass pro is upto snuff in the AJ era.

              1. Mood,
                I wasn’t saying he is a bust because of quotes said by Harbaugh. I was only pointing out you can’t trust coaches when they talk about players.
                As to Garnett he was a road grader who struggles in space and in pass pro. His struggles in pass pro were noted when he came out of college. And he graded out the same way his rookie season.
                I don’t think he is bust at all. In fact I think he was only slightly over drafted. The problem he faces is scheme fit. He would be very good in a power scheme. But in this scheme, he is asked make reach blocks and pick up players on the move.
                I think thats why the 49ers wanted him to commit to getting more agile. I think that’s basically what ”body transformation” is code for. As I have never seen a coach complain about any players body if they were great at what the coach asked them to do.

              2. Based on film study he was predominantly a man scheme blocker in college that was drafted by a team that played inside zone under Chip Kelly and he struggled his rookie year with it. Obviously he wasn’t looking any better in the outside zone scheme.

          2. You can still draft an LT, you just need to verify their anchor and movement ability against bigger linemen. Nelson is already 6’5 and Price is 6’4.
            This type of transition is made fairly regularly in NFL. I’m not sure Williams could do it but the other top prospects might.
            But tbh I would hope they bring in a FA guard to give them flexibility here.
            Personally if the edge rusher and guard are gone I’d try to trade back into the 20’s and get another 2nd if at all posible. Then they could get the edge, guard and cb prospect in the first 2 rds. Here you’d hope for two serviceable guys and to hit big on one.

    1. QBs do an awful lot to make the line. With Hoyer the sack rate was 7.2%. With Beathard it was 7.8%. With Gaba-Gaba and Sir Hold the Ball last year, it was 10.8% (despite Kelly’s offense being a short-passing, quick-tempo/throw offense).

      With Jimmy G it was 4.3%.

      And, just an aside, but have ever noticed that the Patriots routinely don’t give up a lot of sacks with linemen that are,frequently, draft rejects and other team rejects? And when linemen leave the Patriots in free agency, they almost always get worse…

      Like Jimmy G, Tom Brady is routinely one of the fastest to throw QBs in the NFL. And like Jimmy G he makes them look good. Unlike our ball-holding, slow-to-throw QBs we’ve had since mid-2012.

  11. Good for Pete and Ken. I hope the 49ers hang 49 on them in both games next year and both guys get fired. I can’t think of a head coach in the NFL I like less than Pete Carroll and his stupid gum.

          1. From a football perspective, Love can benefit from getting stronger, and developing his receiving game which will be key role in the NFL coming out of the backfield into open space. Hopefully, he will land eventually in a team that can better use his skill set than the Panthers did with CMac this past season.

            1. How is Love going to develop his receiving game if Shaw doesn’t try to throw him the ball?

              He had 15 catches as a freshman followed by 14 total over the last 2 seasons.

              He’s already shown his strength with his ability to run between the tackles. All another year will do regarding his NFL prospects is put another another year of wear and tear on his body. Those 269 touches would be better at the next level.

              1. “How is Love going to develop his receiving game if Shaw doesn’t try to throw him the ball?”
                True that Shaw didn’t throw him the ball like CMac had it thrown to him. But I have a feeling that Stanford may slowly veer away from the “Shawvitagren offense” towards a more zone-blocking scheme, now that Bloomgren has departed to be the HC at Rice. The new OL coach is a ZBS guy.
                https://twitter.com/fo_wordofmuth/status/951590867105714178
                The OL will be better and so will be the QB play. There is some speculations among the fan base that Love will get more involved in the passing game, but Shaw is very conservative and obstinate. Still, even he probably recognizes that DC’s like Pendergrast at USC and Grinch at WSU is getting sufficiently good at defending his predictable offense that he needs to change. It’d be fun if he adopted a version of the Shanny offense.

            2. If a RB has any desire to have a good NFL career he has to come out as soon as he’s eligible. Going back for another year of wear and tear doesn’t make a lot of sense. Love was banged up enough this season never mind giving it another year.

              1. Darren Sproles played all four years at Kansas State. he’s a good comp for Love and he seems to have had pretty good longevity. The “wear and tear” is more applicable to power backs. Love had only had one injury — a high ankle sprain that lingered throughout the season. He was fine otherwise. I can see him having 6 good seasons in the league and then going to med school.

              2. Mood,

                He had a great season. He had nothing else to prove and would have been a day two pick at worst. Playing another year won’t improve his draft stock and exposes him to a possible injury that could ruin it, or even possibly a chance at a pro career.

  12. Kenny as D coordinator and Brian Shottenheimer as O coordinator ! Looks like we found a new gutter team for the NFC West. I don’t think Wilson can even save yuh from this mess 1&2 man.

    1. Mike Hughes and Isiah Oliver are two db’s I like in the second round.
      I don’t know that either one will fall to SF, but the reality is there were a ton of good prospects at cb and a good one should fall to them… the problem is the rankings at the position will be very different based on scheme fit and whatever scout is looking at them.

  13. Hammer really hit this Jags nail out of the park — not. The JimmyG denial was strong :)

    Mood_Indigo says:
    January 4, 2018 at 3:35 pm
    As Harbaugh said, the opponent gets paid, too. The week after Niners beat the Bears, the latter thrashed the Bengals. The Niners beat the Jags convincingly — a team expected to go deep into the playoffs. So much for weak schedule. I don’t particularly care for parsing small data sets too finely, but Maiocco’s list is staggering in its consistency on on metrics. The Niners have risen to every challenge since Halloween. That’s a complete reversal of course of things.

    Jack Hammer says:
    January 4, 2018 at 4:14 pm
    “The Niners beat the Jags convincingly — a team expected to go deep into the playoffs.”
    The Jaguars haven’t won a game on the west coast since 2005, were 1-3 vs the NFC West, and will be out of the playoffs either this weekend or next.

    1. The problem with Uber-assertive opinions that are only subjective anyway, is they aren’t just a little bit wrong, they’re off the rails completely when they’re wrong and everybody remembers.
      See also: Cohn, Grant; Kawakami, Tim; Ratto,, Ray

      1. it was pretty amusing to observe Grant, Hammer and couple of others trying to downplay the Niners late season wins.
        However, Bellichick will be a whole different case altogether. Pats will take away Fournette’s runs and then confuse Bortles into doing some silly stuff…

        1. Seemed like lack of pass pressure contributed mightily to his success against
          SF.
          Bottles looked surprisingly relaxed even early against the Steelers, and that calmness perhaps helped him see the field.

        2. The running game was working for Jax which opens things up in the passing game. Bortles only had about 80 yards passing in the first half and they had 21 points. The Steelers turning the ball over so many times and Tomlin making some errors in judgement played a huge part in this win for the Jax, much like TO’s played a huge role in the Niners win over the Jags.

  14. http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article194925774.html

    “Apparently, Ansah-to-49ers is being discussed in NFL circles as well. It’s all-smoke-no-fire at this point, of course, but there’s a thinking that Ansah might not be as well suited for a Matt Patricia-style defense as he would for San Francisco’s version of the 4-3.”

    Hmm. Ansah may not get tagged now because he doesn’t fit Patricia’s scheme. So thanks again to the Patriots. Thanks to Belichick for Garoppolo. Thanks to McDaniels for Shanahan (pulling out when he had the inside track on the Niner job). Thanks to Patricia for Ansah?

    1. I wouldn’t read much into that at this point. Ansah is probably going to be the top DL on the market (unless the Cowboys inexplicably let Lawrence walk) and will be commanding a huge salary regardless of his production the past two seasons. Something tells me the 49ers will look elsewhere for a pass rusher.

        1. That does not necessarily mean that Ansah is the right fit though. I think they go after Okafor. Cheaper, younger, and was a big reason Saints D stepped up its game in 2017.

          1. I don’t know about Okafor. Didn’t do much in 4 years with the Cards and then tore his achilles in November. Looked like he was having his best season so far, but a lot of red flags here.

            It’s going to take a lot of money to sign any pass rusher so I’d rather go for one of the top guys available while we have the money. If they can’t sign one of them, then keep one or two of their own and draft one.

              1. Goodwin doesn’t have a torn achilles. Okafor probably won’t have the required speed and explosiveness to play LEO.

              2. I want them to look at Okafor but I see him as competition for Marsh/ replacement for Harold and depth as a DE in nickel.

                If the 49ers are considering Ansah there is no reason to be outbid for him. Make it happen.

              3. I would rather see them go after a pass rusher in the draft. Two straight mediocre seasons of injuries and up-and-down outings from Ansah is concerning.

              4. That’s fine. I’m not giving my opinion on whether they should sign him or not – I have previously said I would probably go elsewhere for the same reasons. But if they want him there is absolutely no reason not to get him.

  15. http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/16/jets-s-jamal-adams-makes-2017-nfl-all-rookie-team/

    Everywhere you looked on the field, Adams was somehow there. He made contributions in coverage, stopping the run game and getting to the quarterback. While he was unable to record his first interception, Adams ended the season with 83 tackles, two sacks, six passes defended, one forced fumble, two fumble recoveries and eight stuffs.

    On top of that, the 21-year-old acted as a leader in New York’s young locker room, bringing an abundance of energy to a team that badly needed some.

      1. But, but, he won Pepsi awards.
        :-)

        Funny how the majority of us posters nailed it WRT what kind of pros Adams and Thomas would be.

          1. Yeah, I think it is a bit early to be saying we know what types of pros they will be.

            Adams would have been a nice pick, but in the end he actually wasn’t needed. The 49ers safeties were fine.

            1. But was Thomas needed in retrospect. Tank is also solid against the run at Big End. Tartt playing well at S was just as much as a surprise as Tank playing well at Big End.

              1. The run defense was crap in 2016, so yeah he was needed. And this is the first time I have heard about Tank’s play being solid …at all.

              2. Midwest,
                The Run defense in 2016 was terrible, but there was more to it than the players.
                The scheme was an old school 3-4 and we didn’t have a nose tackle on the roster due to early injuries and Baalke didnt pick up anyone until late in the season to stop the bleeding. Additionaly, the DC was not teaching proper gap integrity. This was the same issue he had in cleveland where players complained that they litteraly had to ‘guess’ which hole to fill.
                When the 49ers switched to the Seattle scheme they no longer needed a nose and they had plenty of players that could play the DT role. This along with the scheme routinely playing 8 in the box made SF much tougher to run against.
                With that said their really wasn’t a great option at 2. Hindsight is 20/20 But every player had questionmaks at that point.

            2. “Should have taken Adams. Can’t draft too many DBs” — Baalke.
              Adams will be a very good pro, but his stats are a little helped by Bowles’ scheme of endless blitzing.

            3. Adams would have been so redundant, and I was really confident there was no way in hell he was going to be the pick….

      2. The Safety play wasn’t bad, but there are still question marks. We haven’t seen a lot of Colbert, Taart was injured and Reid may leave as a FA. Adams or Hooker would have been good picks imo. Best hindsight pick is Grant’s guy Lattimore though.

        1. Reid and Tartt both played well as the in-the-box safety, which is what Adams would have been.

          Adams was the guy I wanted in the draft, so I would have loved to have him. But based on what we saw last season it wasn’t a position that Adams would have provided much of an upgrade on.

          Marshon Lattimore or Tre’Davious White on the other hand…

          1. “Reid and Tartt both played well as the in-the-box safety, which is what Adams would have been.”

            But we didn’t know Reid and Tartt would play well at the time. Same with Ward at single high. Adams could have played single high when Ward and Tartt got injured.

            But yeah, Grant gets huge props for Lattimore. I believe Lattimore was CfC’s choice too. If so, good call CfC.

            1. You were just saying Thomas wasn’t needed because Tank played well. Didn’t know that before the draft either.

              End of the day the positions they could have used the most were OL, CB and edge. Didn’t know that for sure until the season started, but that’s how it goes.

              I wasn’t suggesting they should have known this beforehand, or anything like that. Just pointing out that in the end all of us (yes, including me) that were saying Adams should be the pick because they needed to upgrade the safeties weren’t really right. The safeties were fine and Lynch/ Shanahan were correct to go with what they had there. Maybe Thomas wasn’t the best choice, won’t know that for sure for a few years, but based on one year a CB would probably have been the best pick.

              1. Lattimore had injury question marks, and he got roasted by a UDFA in the Vikings game. He wasn’t going to do diddly poo to help our porous front against the run, while at the same time, provide an interior pass rush, along with the upside to grow as a pass rusher. He’s only 22 years old. Lots of football in front of him, and I’m not the least bit worried about him growing into a better pass rusher. Sure, Lattimore had a great season, but I have no regrets. We got ourselves a fine corner in the 3rd round. His name is Witherspoon…;>)

              2. except they had to work thru the Baalke DB “frogs” to find 2 DB “princes” and at the end of the day they weren’t even Baalke picks anyway…

              3. “You were just saying Thomas wasn’t needed because Tank played well. Didn’t know that before the draft either.”

                Yeah, I acknowledged that with my in retrospect comment. “But was Thomas needed in retrospect?”

                I understand the Thomas pick. I would have understood taking Adams at the time too.

              4. I’m not dissing him, but let’s not get carried away with pushing Lattimore as this shut down corner, because that’s just not the case….

              5. “I’m not dissing him, but let’s not get carried away with pushing Lattimore as this shut down corner, because that’s just not the case….”

                He’ll probably be DROY. And like Thomas, he could get better.

              6. Hindsight being what it is, I don’t think Solomon Thomas from Stanford was the right choice for the team. Looking back I would think Jamal Adams and Marcus Lattimore would have been better picks.

              7. It is way too early to use the hindsight reference in regards to any 2017 rookies. If hindsight after one season was indicative of how a rookie’s career would be, then Aldon Smith would be having a Hall of Fame career.

              8. Razor,
                Come on, youre not normally one to get carried away with your arguments. Calling Theilen an UdFA is very misleading because that UdFA is currently a pro bowler.

              9. He was quiet as a mouse against the Packers, and Bengals.

                Packers pass defense 23rd ranking.

                Bengals pass defense 8th ranking.

              10. Lattimore was rated as the 4th overall CB this season. While Theilen had a few catches, he didn’t score a TD so to suggest Lattimore was roasted is exaggeration.

              11. Lattimore could not stop THIELEN when it mattered most. If it makes you any feel better, he was toasted.

              12. “Lattimore could not stop THIELEN when it mattered most.”

                A guy got beat in a big moment by a good player, it happens. I’m sure you remember the Craig fumble. You’re holding Lattimore to an impossible standard because many of us would take him over Thomas if we could redo the draft.

              13. Yea, you could have taken Lattimore over Thomas, and he probably would have gotten beat up pretty bad by opposing rushers. It’s all good. Lattimore is not a shut down corner, but he’s pretty damn good. I hope that makes you guys feel better. P.S. Shanny and Lynch had Thomas ranked higher than Lattimore, so you might direct some of your resentment towards the professionals instead of a hack like myself….

              14. Thielen made a hell of a catch on that last FG drive. Coverage was great. Sometimes a guy just makes a play. He didn’t roast, toast or BBQ Lattimore though. I know you can’t come off Thomas as your guy after all the praise you’ve lavished on him, but Lattimore clearly would have been a better choice and I’m guessing Lynch and Shanny feel the same way after what they witnessed this season.

              15. After all the scouting the professionals did on Thomas and Lattimore, and you’re proclaiming Lattimore was clearly the better choice after one year, and guessing Shanny and Lynch feel like they focked up? That’s pretty damn rich, even for you Rocket….

              16. “P.S. Shanny and Lynch had Thomas ranked higher than Lattimore, so you might direct some of your resentment towards the professionals instead of a hack like myself…”

                First, I wouldn’t call it resentment, we all want Thomas to succeed. Second, bemoaning a draft pick is a direct criticism of Lynch/Shanny.

              17. So essentially what you all are saying is after one year of play, you people are wiser than the professionals when it comes to scouting and drafting players. Gotcha.

              18. After all the scouting the professionals did on Thomas and Lattimore, and you’re proclaiming Lattimore was clearly the better choice after one year, and guessing Shanny and Lynch feel like they focked up? That’s pretty damn rich, even for you Rocket….

                A number of people including myself thought Lattimore and a few others would have been the better choice last year Razor. I said I’m guessing they feel like they might have taken the wrong guy yes. Lattimore showed elite CB ability and that continues to be a need for this team. Meanwhile they brought in Thomas and played him outside hoping for a better pass rush from that spot and he didn’t deliver. Thomas is a good player, but he was exactly what I thought he’d be and why I preferred other options with that pick. He’s a run stuffer with limited pass rush ability. You don’t take that type of player with the 3rd overall pick.

              19. So essentially what you all are saying is after one year of play, you people are wiser than the professionals when it comes to scouting and drafting players. Gotcha

                You seem to be ready to move on from Garnett after less than a seasons worth of games after you were pretty high on him.

              20. Cool, Rocket. I think I’m gonna sit this draft out, and let the real blog professionals, aka Rocket/#80 handle this one. When Shanny/Lynch screw it up again, I don’t want to be associated with their ineptitude once more…;>)

              21. If you’ve done any reading on Garnett, Rocket, he wasn’t meant to play in a Shanny offense. You would have also read that the professional assessors were not pleased with his performance through OTA’s, and training camp. Pairing that with putting him on permanent IR when it wasn’t required, I don’t see how you could come to another conclusion, unless you’re willing to deny reality….

              22. I’m just a guy on a blog same as you. I just disagree with you is all.

                If you’ve done any reading on Garnett, Rocket, he wasn’t meant to play in a Shanny offense. You would have also read that the professional assessors were not pleased with his performance through OTA’s, and training camp. Pairing that with putting him on permanent IR when it wasn’t required, I don’t see how you could come to another conclusion, unless you’re willing to deny reality….

                You were high on the pick at the time and when I questioned it you went on about about how he won the Outland trophy etc etc. Now because you’ve read something unfavorable you are ready to completely change your mind? Stick to your convictions Razor. Remember how you changed your mind right before the 2015 draft and said Armstead was a great pick? You should have stuck with your first impressions.

              23. Oh, I was high on Garnett as a bulldozing blocker in a power based offense. Not an on the move, lock and latch blocker. I appreciate you trying to help me with my confidence in belief system, but after 56 years here on planet earth, I’m pretty secure in who and what I am. Now, as I said, when a player is out of favor with the new regime, not playing good enough, and is put on premature IR, with the plan of a total body makeover, only a fool would deny he’s in trouble. I’m nobodies fool….

              24. He could be in trouble for sure, but that’s not what I’m talking about. You are changing your mind without seeing him compete next season because of what you’ve read. You became a big Solomon Thomas fan when you saw him dominate a lousy team in his bowl game. Get more evidence before forming a decision is all I’m saying.

              25. Yes sir, Rocket. Saluting…you won’t have to worry about me screwing up again. As I said, I will sit this one out, pay close attention and learn. Hopefully I’ll be better prepared in 2019….

              26. Oh, and Rocket, just to set the record straight, I said I have a bad feeling about Garnett. I never said he hasn’t got a chance in hell of being the guy. Secondly, with respect to Armstead, he was not my pick. Peters was the guy I wanted. Armstead, in the middle of the night on draftmas eve, it dawned on me that he was going to be the obvious selection of Baalke….

              27. I’m totally relaxed. I’ve been burning some homegrown Gorilla Glue, per usual. Shhhh, don’t tell Foster.

              28. “Shhhh, don’t tell Foster.”

                Darn. Someone was critical of my draft crush. I guess I’ll have to sit this draft out too.

              29. Other than letting the team down, Foster has been great. You don’t have to parrot me. Take Rocket’s advise, and be your own man. Ha!

                P. S. Look up joking, because it has nothing to do with being critical.

              30. “Take Rocket’s advise, and be your own man. Ha!”

                I am being my own man. Man being the key word. As opposed to your childish threat to sit out this years draft because people are questioning Thomas.

              31. Dude, you do know what the word, joke means, don’t you? You might want to get with Oneniner and light one up too….

              32. “Dude, you do know what the word, joke means, don’t you?”

                What do you think this was?

                “Darn. Someone was critical of my draft crush. I guess I’ll have to sit this draft out too.”

              33. Razor,

                We’ve been here a long time. You take yourself too seriously with this draft stuff sometimes and I knock you down a few pegs because of it. I like to stir sh*t up but will never insult you personally, at least not intentionally. It’s just football smack.

              34. Rocket, I know. I’m just playing along. It’s all good. Maybe we can catch an Iron Maiden show together one day.

                #80, Why in the hell would I let a couple of hacks like you and Rocket intimidate me into sitting out this draft? You’re joking, right?

              35. Why in the hell would I let a couple of hacks like you and Rocket intimidate me into sitting out this draft? You’re joking, right?

                That’s the spirit!

  16. All the guard talk is important but even more important is a top center in shannans offense. Going to be interesting to see what happens. Not sure who the top centers are in free agency or the draft but I am sure that will be addressed. I like Kilgore as a person but hope we up grade that position, pass rusher,cb and rb. Still hoping joe Williams is the answer.

    1. Hmmm, not so sure about that. He’s big, I’ll give him that. But he plays in a pass happy offense and has never put up big numbers. Looks like just a guy to me.

      1. Keep in mind there’s a lot of mouths to feed. He was targeted 38 times with 23 receptions, averaging 16 yards per catch in the regular season, and 4 out of 5 receptions post. He had a neck injury, therefore he was inactive against the Vikings. This might be a case where you get him cheap, and he helps the 49ers with red zone production. I don’t think the 49ers need to spend big money on the position, and Coleman is a low risk, high reward target….

        1. Not really one of mine Scooter. But he did put up good numbers when Luck was healthy and throwing to him, so it is possible that he just needs a good QB to throw to him.

          1. I’ve watched a bit of him and he is still more of a WR you scheme open than a guy that gets open on his own. Lots of his big gains have come from catch and runs on short passes. He’s basically a bigger version of Tavon Austin.

  17. Anybody got a clue as to whether this guy would be worth bringing on board for Foster?

    The Seahawks also announced that they’ve fired linebackers coach/assistant head coach Michael Barrow.

    1. Yeah, I’d be good with that. Barrow was a pretty good LB back in his day. And seems like he’s done alright as a coach too.

  18. Between rookies, free agents and trades how many new players will be on the Niners roster on opening day?
    In October I would have said about 20-24 or about a third of the players. Now I think it will be less. I think it will be around 12-15. I am assuming an NFL team has an average turnover rate of around 10-12 players each year, which could be wrong, but probably not by much.
    I think the Niner’s hope to rebuilt the team by 2019 to compete for a Super Bowl with the addition of Jimmy G.

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