49ers 10, Cardinals 20: Grades

SANTA CLARA — Here are the 49ers’ grades after their 20-10 loss to the Cardinals.

QUARTERBACK: F. C.J. Beathard isn’t starter material – that’s clear – but he may not be backup material, either. He misses easy throws even when he’s not under pressure. The 49ers should draft a quarterback at some point during the first three rounds of next year’s draft.

Beathard threw a pass that bounced off the back of Trent Brown’s helmet and got intercepted. That was an all timer. To be fair, Beathard got hit more than 20 times in this game, and most quarterback don’t play well when they get hit that much.

Do you think Jimmy Garoppolo is eager to play and sign a contract extension after watching Beathard take those hits?

RUNNING BACKS: C. It’s hard to judge Carlos Hyde as a runner – he carried the ball only 12 times. More on that below. He did catch a team-high nine passes for 84 yards. But, he let a pass bounce off his face during the fourth quarter, and he got thrown out of the game for fighting. Fullback Kyle Juszczyk fumbled and left the game with a neck injury.

WIDE RECEIVERS: F. Who are these guys?

TIGHT ENDS: F-minus. George Kittle dropped two passes. He’s a disappointment.

OFFENSIVE LINE: Ω. Worst offensive line in the league. Giving these guys an F-minus would be too kind. I had to go Greek alphabet for them.

DEFENSIVE LINE: C-plus. The left side of the line was solid against the run. The right side was not. The Cardinals figured that out and ran that direction most of the game. But in the fourth quarter, defensive tackle Tony McDaniel forced a fumble and defensive tackle DeForest Buckner recovered the ball. That’s why I gave this group the “plus.”

LINEBACKERS: B. Reuben Foster recorded 14 tackles and made Adrian Peterson work hard to average 4.3 yards per carry. Brock Coyle was awful.

DEFENSIVE BACKS: B. Eric Reid intercepted Drew Stanton in the end zone. Backup free safety Adrian Colbert made a nice play to sprint across the field and break up a deep pass along the sideline. And Ahkello Witherspoon gave up a touchdown catch for the second game in a row.

SPECIAL TEAMS: C. Punt returner Victor Bolden Jr. never had room to run, because the 49ers couldn’t jam the Cardinals gunners.

COACHES: F. Kyle Shanahan has three jobs – head coach, offensive coordinator and offensive play caller – and he stinks at all three of them. He can’t win a game, his offense can’t score more than 10 points and his play calls make no sense. Today, he called passes 78 percent of the time even though his offensive line can’t protect the quarterback. What a genius!

This article has 315 Comments

  1. ‘Do you think Jimmy Garoppolo is eager to play and sign a contract extension after watching Beathard take those hits?’

    If he doesn’t, we can tag him. Then we will have another draft and off season to improve the offense. Remember that last year’s draft was all about the D early. The 2018 draft will be about the offense. Who knew Garnett would get injured. We traded for Zuttah but it didn’t work out. Our best WR is injured, as is our pro bowl LT.

    “What a genius!”

    Say that to Kyle’s face.

    1. They genius that was too scared to have his kicker attempt a makeable field goal before half time. What in the hell did he have to lose? This tells me he’s either a genius making all the wrong moves or he’s tanking on purpose. It’s clear he isn’t playing to win.

      1. Good point PhD. Everything changed after the Colts loss. After that, KS gave his expect some losing speech. They also started playing the younger guys more. He has job security, 0-16 wouldn’t get him fired. If he is tanking, he’s a genius at that.

    2. It’d be nice to not have to use the tag on a player that hasn’t played one snap; and a player that Patriots off-loaded, only to replace him with Brian Hoyer.

      I do think Lynch’s trade was a real good one, regardless of whether it’s “taking care of the quarterback spot” or just “quarterback spot insurance.” But it’s a 2018-only deal.

      As far as “genius” goes, I’m wondering why the Niners didn’t also try to get a healthy offensive lineman before the deadline. That’s the frustration the fans are feeling, especially with all the cap room. Not even a rent-a-guard? That’s tossing in the season while trying to install an offense. Grant’s criticism is warranted.

      1. Getting a good or even decent OL before the deadline sounds great in theory, but it is not a shopping trip. I know you know this, but you don’t just go out and pick up whatever you want; you have to have the trade partner who is willing to let this theoretical player go four price that makes sense in the long run. I agree that would have been great they could have pulled something off, but it’s not that simple. there’s a reason why a meaningful trades are generally few and far between… This year being a relative exception

    3. So far I am not too impressed with KS or JL. Their draft has not really panned out so far. They dismantled the roster and lost a bunch of solid players along the way. It seems like they are just getting rid of all Baalke players good or bad. That to me is a mistake. Players should be kept based on merit not who drafted them.
      I am willing to give them another year but I am very concerned that we maybe in for a long 6 years

  2. Lol all you fans that knock Grants cold hard truths.
    Face it-Kyle I swear at least at this point not a good coach.
    Lynch drafted poorly-Thomas was a bad pick with talent on board and Witherspoon stinks. Kittle and Taylor can’t hold on to the ball and Bethard sucks regardless of pressure-he’s tough though I’ll give him that.
    Trade for Jimmy G with no deal in place was a rookie move reeking of desperation.

    1. Don’t get it twisted. Sometimes he’s right and sometimes he’s wrong. That applies to every sportswriter. What’s annoying is this Jim Rome-Rick Reilly hot-take antagonistic schtick. It’s an outmoded style only utilized by all those awful baby boomer “THESE GUYS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROFESSIONALS!” guys who get all aggrieved and offended when a player drops a ball or commits a penalty or something. Except it’s really weird for a millennial to affect this style. Also, he doesn’t even do it that well.

      1. Exactly. Not to mention that he comes off as petulant and undermines his own credibility by doing so.

      2. Not to mention he wanted them to sign Shanahan during the summer. Just remember what Walsh said about the local media “They want you to fail so bad.” This stooge is no different.

      3. You may like KNBR a little better, and for full disclosure I do enjoy Tim Ryan. But for a cheerleader analysis you can have Ted agree that he understands the Niners really are building an ass-kicker, one player at a time, and that, once again, injuries are the big problem.

        But what KNBR does not talk about is all that fricking cap room staring you in the face wile ex-Niners are consistency making plays against the currently not-as-good Niners.

        Question: name the best guard on the field Sunday. Bet it was a former Niners. True, Lynch didn’t too him; but we didn’t get one either.

    2. Wiz,

      Saying what a genius is unnecessary. Grant already made his case that Shanny isn’t doing a good job. The genius comment is just an insult.

  3. I’m not really negative on the team – I think the Jimmy G acquisition was great and I can see flashes on the offense and the guys are still playing hard.

    However, I think Grant has a point about the number of passing plays that were called.

    1) Most coaches protect rookie QBs because of their inexperience and other factors. The main other factor here is the poor OL – so why have 78% of the plays be passing plays?

    2) The high number of passing plays only increases the odds that CJB will get hurt and then Jimmy G will have to go in the game.

    Hopefully, Grant will ask KS why he called so many passing plays. I keep thinking that KS had a reason which might be related entirely to evaluation purposes. Perhaps he wanted to evaluate the receivers more (they were terrible) or perhaps he wanted to evaluate CJB under pressure situations (per my post in the locker room report blog, CJB had a rating from PFF of 9.8 when he was under pressure and over 80 when he wasn’t). KS has said that he considers practice as much in his evaluations as game film. I keep having this feeling that Jimmy G is going to start sooner rather than later.

    1. cubus – Carson Wentz vs. the blitz this season…….it helps when the offense can protect, giving the QB a chance to get the ball out of his hands

      Carson Wentz has 10 TD passes and 0 Int vs. the blitz, the most such TDs w/o a pick in any team’s first 9 games since Tom Brady’s 11 in ’07.

    2. Maybe he called the pass plays figuring he could get between 2 and 3 seconds so CJ could get a pass off. Maybe he didn’t call a lot of running plays because he figured that the OL couldn’t block for them. A lot of the pass plays were like Walsh’s short pass rather than run offense, where the short pass breaks the runner free. Look at the number of passes that Hyde got.

        1. So Beathard got an F and this while taking 20 hits. Like to point out that the receivers on the field probably wouldn’t start, oh lets say the other 31 teams in the NFL.

  4. These are not normal times for the Niners. Grading really isn’t helpful at this point. It is necessary is to determine who on the current roster is NFL caliber and who is not. Perhaps that is why we are passing more than running. We know what we have with Hyde. We need to make an assessment about our o line and receivers. Who stays and who goes is what is probably on KS’s mind.

    Is it possible KS is playing 3d chess and Grant is playing pong?

      1. You’re an idiot. We came into the game with 15 players on IR. And it’s worse:

        We have a back-up guard playing RT.
        The RT moved to LT which requires completely different technique.
        We lost our only truly good WR last week.
        We lost our slot WR yesterday.
        Kittle played the whole game with a sprained ankle.
        We lost our full back to a neck injury yesterday.
        Fusco is playing with a torn bicep.

        Foster re-hurt his ankle but only missed one snap.
        Tartt broke his arm.
        Two more 49ers suffered knee injuries.

        And we six starters/significant back-ups on the inactive squad because none of them is fit to play:

        Joe Staley (broken face)
        Garry Gilliam (knee),
        Solomon Thomas (knee),
        Aaron Lynch (calf)
        D.J.. Jones (knee)
        K’Waun Williams (quadricep)

        I don’t know what you and the rest of the idiot patrol expect. But the fact we weren’t shut out or blown out is a testament to a pair of coaches who are doing an amazing job.

        1. I couldn’t agree more! The fact is that there are people wearing Niner uniforms and trying to play their best who are not NFL material. This is a snakebite season like no other I’ve seen in my 50 plus years of watching.

          1. OK well that begs the question as to why put further risk to your QB, your receivers and OL? Poor coaching decision to risk your players like that, especially when it wasn’t working. What exactly could one evaluate after so much passing? Seems to me that KS is making some fundamental rookie mistakes. Some here are simply excusing them.

            1. EastCoast9er

              I am surprised, mildly at your post…”Why put further risk to your QB, your receivers, and OL ?” Poor coaching might be responsible for some of that, but who is left to risk if you don’t have a passing game, a running game, a Special teams game, with half of your team in IR, and the other half gasping for air ? What is left to try, Punt on first down ?….Most of what Kyle has left to play are either rookies, or seriously outmanned in quality….Custer had better odds…..

              As upset as I am (and many of you are) I see nothing that Kyle can do ,or be held responsible for ….just like ‘Chip’ and Tomsula before him, he was given the keys to an empty pantry. We all know that this all goes down to Baalke, who was in a position way beyond his abilities…and now the 49ers, are just 39ers. I DO believe that I can see Phoenix rising from the ashes….with Buckner, Armstead, Blair, ‘Tank’ , Foster, Coyle, Smith, Witherspoon, Tartt, Aaron Lynch, Johnson, and Eli and several others, the D will become formidable as a good team.

              The Offense has some good players now that Garoppolo is on board…when Joe Williams and our other RB (Jeremy…) are added to Hyde and Juice, we’ll have the makings of a decent backfield… If Garnett can add to Trent Brown, We can continue to hope that ‘Big’Joe has a couple more years left in him.

              I’ll still cheer for , and be frustrated by MY niners….this was never going to be a championship year…

              1. Please, Oregon, over 60% of the roster is new. The part of the roster that is playing halfway decent are the Baalke holdovers not the new crew.

                The pass plays put everyone at risk. It was an unbalanced attack. If they had given the ball more to the running backs they would be risking everyone far less (save the running backs, of course, but they were being risked in the passing game anyway).

                This isn’t the first time that Shanahan’s play calling has been called into question either. It seems to be a trend with him.

            2. “OK well that begs the question as to why put further risk to your QB, your receivers and OL? ”

              Are you advocating that they should have forfeited the game at halftime (if not earlier)?

        2. Moses, what about all the games lost before the injuries? The games were closer but we were still losing.

          Kyle is in over his head and the injuries don’t help. What’s happening here is what has happened the last three seasons. People set unrealistic expectations like Grant saying we’ll be 9-7. Then when the coach doesn’t perform or player they all turn and jump ship. Grant overhyped Kyle and Hoyer as did many others.

          The moral of the story be realistic. I thought we’d have 4-6 wins, but we’re much worse. Apply this to Jimmy as well.

        3. Posters rip me for making excuses, but you go ahead, keep trying.
          Sure, the injuries do not help. The margin for error is razor thin. The refs are blind.
          However, looking at the game in a strategic sense, Arians out coached KS from the first snap.
          Remember, everyone said they wanted to establish the run, their WR does a double move and gains over 50 yards through the air. Arians shaped the Niners so they attempted passes 78% of the time. The game was relatively close, so KS panicked, and let Arians dictate the scheme.
          So go ahead, blame injuries for this loss. All I am saying is with better leadership, an inferior team can beat a superior team. The leadership was timid, not bold. Not going for a field goal at the end of the first half was just KS conceding the game. Not playing JG was timid, and if he was afraid JG would get injured, he was not afraid of letting CJB get sacked 5 times and hit 20 times. Poor CJB, I hope they have him under the concussion protocols.
          Every game, I have seen a team that is unfocused and unprepared. That is all the fault of the coaching. Sure, defend KS, I will just retort with 0-9. KS needs an OC. He is too stubborn to hire one.
          Throw around the idiot designation all you want. I will just say that you keep wandering lost in the desert. How smart is that?

          1. As to the injuries. Losing team seem to get a lot more injuries. If the Niners were 8-8 I believe we would not see as many injuries

        4. Yep. Niners lead the league in players on IR, they didn’t have a lot of talent to begin with and are starting a rookie QB behind a bad Oline. What could possibly go wrong?

  5. Again on point Grant, JG will be gone in a few months…..there’s literally no possibility we tag him. Fans spew that garbage like it’s their 25 mil being spent. Tag has been used once in like 20 years, why do u fellas think that is, considering we are usually near the top in salary cap space. Btw, I got $20 on Grant…..I wouldn’t bet on Shanny in a potato sack race.
    He called 70% pass plays because he’s a smug character trying to prove something apparently, didn’t work in the Superbowl, ain’t working now.

      1. It’s called wishful thinking sir, the same thing you employ when I assume it’s done deal that our qb of the future is here. Nothing about nothing is certain around here, other than the weekly dash in the L column.

        He just about cracked 300 yards, and might have had a td or 2 if he had guys that could hang on to the ball. So how far off was I really? It was the game of his young career, but you left that part out of my post. Selective cherry pickn is seriously played out around here, how about adding some of your own opinions.

        1. “So how far off was I really?”

          Sf 31-24, actual score was 20-10 Az.

          CJ would have had over 300 YDs and 2 TDs if he had enough arm strength on the two early deep balls.

          “giving niners brass and faithful something to think about”

          Not even close on that part.

        2. “how about adding some of your own opinions.”

          Do you want anything in particular? I pretty much give my opinion on everything if you hadn’t noticed.

        3. But you’re only a fan when they win. I have a right to be loyal even when they don’t. It remains to be seen how they handle this JG situation, but I have faith John Lynch will make the right decision for the team.

          1. I am not sure what are you basing that on. So far none of his personnel decisions have panned out.

      2. His track record isn’t as good as you think. Reid is still here as is Hyde. Hoyer is gone and we 0-9 vs 9-7.

  6. Coyle is actually a solid player you are crazy. You are way to harsh on coaches. Any coach with this team wouldnt make the playoffs..buckner,breida,foster,taylor,bolding,t brown, staley,jimmy g, j williams, taylor, hikutini, colbert, tart, coyle, is not a bad start for rebuolding. Add mitchell and eli harold in there and next years additons should make us 6 wins better next year atleast! IDe rather See what Im seeing now and get a top 2 pick then have a 9 or 10 pick and miss playoffs. If you know so much more than the coaching staff than why havent you been on the coaching staff all these years?

  7. Too negative… Like father like son!
    Some guys came from Press Democrat and advanced in sportscast. Who would want to hire negative journalists who put too much personal feelings into the job?

      1. Seb

        How ’bout YOU get real…and take Kaep with you…The rest of us are busy making this Chicken sandwich…don’t be such a jackass, Seb….

    1. If you ever read much of his dad you would know what he is talking about. The Cohn’s have nevervliked anything the Niners have done. Good or bad.

      1. I read every word Lowell wrote. It was a must read from the green pages. I was furious at times at what LC wrote, because I thought BW walked on water, and how dare he question the Genius. However, in retrospect, I could see that LC was using reverse psychology, and it motivated BW and the Niners to prove him wrong.
        Do not get too down on Grant, he is just flummoxed that his 9-7 prediction went up in flames.
        It is interesting, KS is 0-9, but you think he is above reproach. No, Grant and I criticize him so he can learn from his mistakes, and not repeat them. Most other fans of an 0-9 team would be calling for torches and pitchforks. We all know this is a long rebuild, but if they want to start a winning culture, they should not employ a defeatist attitude.

        1. Weasel says ” No, Grant and I criticize him so he can learn from his mistakes, and not repeat them”

          Like anyone on this planet gives 2 farts what you have to say and if anyone in the NFL listens to your babble!

        2. Ha! Seb, how do you know he was “using reverse psychology”? Who are you , the great Kreskin?????? LC had good things to say about the 9ers at about a 10/1 ratio, with 10 being negative!

          What is this, “Grant and I” stuff? Quit slurping!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. Niners passed so much because the Cards stacked the box and dared CJB to beat them through the air. The Cards shaped the Niners and CJB got bludgeoned again.
    I wondered before the season if we would get the first half KS, or the second half KS. Now we know.
    KS needs to hire an OC, but he is too stubborn.
    Some day, they will consider time outs to be precious and saved for legitimate challenges and the last 2 minutes of each half. Even with RR gone, they still played undisciplined, and committed way too many unforced errors.
    Wonder if KS can see how his team lost another game due to a Zone read play, and if he can see why teams utilize that play. They use it to WIN games.
    Not playing JG because he did not have full command of the playbook, is ironic, because it looked like the team did not utilize a playbook. Obviously, they forgot how a screen pass might counter a fierce pass rush. The coaches needed to be less predictable and more innovative. The offensive futility is very telling, because KS is supposed to be an offensive genius. He is forcing players to try and run his scheme instead of scheming to play to his player’s strengths. If they do not play JG next game, I will think they are content with losing, and may go winless this season.
    CJB should be under the concussion protocols, because his head has been slammed to the ground so many times, it looked like Steph Curry dribbling a basketball.
    Grant is pretty spot on with his grades. Another winnable game. Glad the Niners are not afraid to punt……..

  9. Grant sez:

    “..QUARTERBACK: F. C.J. Beathard isn’t starter material – that’s clear – but he may not be backup material, either…

    That’s a little harsh… even for you Grant !
    CJ .. has .. shown some pretty good “flashes” … here and there and
    it makes me wonder how good he can really be … if only he didn’t have
    all those “Jonathon Martin’s ” in front of him …

    Seems they aren’t able to open many holes for the running game ..
    and .. did you happen to notice ..just where most of those
    hits he took… and most of the sacks came from ?

    I noticed …

    How long does it take most teams to build some cohesiveness ?

    A patchwork O-line who hasn’t played more than two consecutive
    games together …(so far this season)..
    Kilgore in the middle …
    Brown switches to LT for Staley … (out of position)

    Not to mention a patchwork Defense … where I
    found myself saying (more than a few times) ..
    ” … Who the heck is that.. ?

    It’s hard to win a game when you’re trying to pull a rabbit out of the
    hat … by trying to fit some Domino’s Pizza guys into Niner unis..

    Didja see the “bomb” .. CJ threw to Goodwin …
    ( and he ACTUALLY .. caught it …too ! )

    Now THAT pass was a thing of beauty !…

    Yeah… he’s inconsistent … but the question has to be … WHY ??

    Wake up and smell the coffee, Grant …
    (I’ve already listed the many reasons why)

    So .. I repeat …
    dismissing CJ’s talents and handing him an “F” .. in your grades..
    shows Tunnel-Vision… and goes against everything
    you learned in Journalism 101 !

    1. Agreed re: CJB

      The kid wasn’t supposed to play this year. He got dumped into a bad position, with a horrible offensive line, one proven receiver, unknown tight ends, and mediocre running backs.

      Yet, he’s standing in there and fighting. And still doing ok, if you really think about it.

      I blame the playcalling more than I do the QB play.

      Is there room for improvement? Sure.

      Can he work on his mechanics to get better passes out? Sure.

      Would he look a lot better with Steve Young’s team around him? Absolutely.

  10. One thing fans need to remember is that the staff can’t even evaluate What It has with all of these injuries.
    Yes, I know that’s part of the game but this team has taken it to new levels. They were already one of the more injury riddled rosters but in the past two weeks they have had more than a quarter of their dressed roster leave the game with injuries and not come back.
    I wouldn’t expect the Pats to succeed with numbers like that, let alone the least talented roster in the NFL.

    1. +1000 … Shoup !!

      Great point !

      So-o-o … Grant … and the rest of the nay-sayers…
      should cut Shanny and CJ … some slack… doncha think ?

      1. No. This offense sucked at the beginning of the year too when it couldn’t score a TD in 3 of the first 4 games.

        Excuses abound.

        1. Impressive how Shanahan has his cheerleaders. Not sure where he got them. I have no skin in the game so I’m happy if he succeeds. But I certainly am calling a spade a spade!

          The excuses are:

          Difficult system
          6 years…its a process…you don’t have vision
          Evaluation…it isn’t about winning (Love that one)
          Poor players
          Young players (this is the only one that gets a bit of traction with me)
          Execution (which was also the excuse for SB collapse)
          The newest…injuries

          At no time can anyone say, hey, who is running this show and why is this being so poorly executed.

          1. The “young players” excuse is not valid, especially on offense. The average age of their week 1 starters on that side of the ball was 27.91, the 6th highest in the league.

            Sure that number has likely gone down a bit since then, but it’s not like they were scoring points the first 4 weeks of the season.

        2. All of that is true. What I don’t understand is why people are shocked with this?
          I think part of this is due to the fact that some fans were expecting 8 or 10 wins. I was hoping for 4 wins with an outside shot at 6 given some breaks and healthy roster.

          This is a team that went 2 -14 last year and essentially has the same level talent.
          The biggest problem is that this roster has lost 1 OL, 1 WR, 1 DL, 2 LB’s, 2 safeties, 1 corner for the season. Not to mention it’s losses of another 2 OL, a TE, 2 DL and another LB for a few games.
          Not once have the niners walked on the field with a more talented team. And at this point I think its safe to say the browns are fielding a more talented roster than SF.

          I’m not a cheerleader of Shanahan. I have not been saying he is doing a good job or is a good coach… I’ve been saying I don’t know what he is. Since when was reserving judgement for more information the same as being a cheerleader? Sorry, I don’t subscribe to the hang him now mob, and I want more info before sentencing the man.

          1. No one is hanging them, but we are pointing out the obvious. This team far worse than before and the players brought in have not made the team better. If Shanahan is the keen mind he is supposed to be he should at least have some explanation for the shortcomings.

    2. At this point it’s fair to wonder if some of these injuries are guys quitting on Shanny. In fact I’ll go as far to say there’s no doubt left…..on to the next excuse that previous regimes here weren’t afforded.

      1. “At this point it’s fair to wonder if some of these injuries are guys quitting on Shanny. In fact I’ll go as far to say there’s no doubt left”


        “You could see at halftime he had no chance to get back in,” coach Kyle Shanahan said. “He was trying to do everything he could but he definitely was way too hurt.”

        “Fusco played through a biceps injury, to which he said: “You’d have rip my arm off to get me to come out. We just battled today.”

        So who are these players that are quitting on Shanny by faking injuries? Call them out by name.

            1. He has nothing. He never has anything. Guys are out there playing hurt every game, coming back into games while hurt, made at not getting to go back out there when hurt yet he, like Grant, can’t see it because they’re so wrapped up in being childish it makes it impossible to see anything but what they want to see.

              Some of them remind me of my youngest when she threw a fit over it takes 3-minutes to make Easy Mac.

              I wan’t it now!
              Takes three minutes.
              I want it now!
              Takes three minutes.
              I want it now.
              Takes three minutes.

              The whole effing three minutes.

              1. Best analogy I heard all week and, all three of my kids had moments like this! Nothing like wisdom to get in the way of a good story! Thank you Moses!

              2. That is hilarious, and spot on. I have a 1 year old, and I can already see some of these behavioral similarities between him and Grant. All kidding aside, it really is too bad. I think Grant does occasionally write some interesting posts and make some good points. Unfortunately, he can’t seem to keep his big boy pants on and help himself from childish insults and baseless self-promoting along the way.

            2. Those wusses like Armstead, Ward, Tartt, and Garcon who refuse to play with broken arms or major neck injuries. ?
              To be fair I would expect the players to back off a bit once they realize the season is over but so far I haven’t seen it.

              1. Shoup,
                These guy’s won’t be happy unless our injured players mimic the gate keeper on Monty Python’ ”The Holy Grail.”
                If we’re 0-9 at this point next year then bring out the torches and pitchforks!

          1. Not these:

            San Francisco lost five more players during Sunday’s 20-10 loss to the Arizona Cardinals, including free safety Jaquiski Tartt, who emerged from the team’s busy X-ray room with the same forearm fracture the teammate he was replacing at free safety, Jimmie Ward, suffered last week.

            Rookie receiver Trent Taylor hurt his ribs, fullback Kyle Juszczyk re-injured his neck, two others suffered knee injuries and a sixth, tight end George Kittle, limped through the game after spraining his ankle on the 49ers’ opening play.

            Problem is you’re so full of poison with your over-stuffed, hate-filled head, like so many on this board, that you automatically assign the worst possible explanation to everything.

            1. Another reason it was hard to run, no tight ends available to block! Once again your wisdom is needed, I am tired of the hate,hate,hate, grant spews and is know it all attitude which by Teheran why, I am not sure he would last as an high school coach, now grant works hard and their are things he does I like but the I know more than the coach attitude and the negativity holds him back as one of the better ones!

          2. Ahhh… you mean the ones you communicate with that give you all the insider information? I don’t think anyone on here, even the most optimistic of us aren’t frustrated with how the season’s gone. I think the difference is some people see it as part of the process: these people recognize the situation, understand the impact of years of mistakes from Baalk and the piling up injuries; these people are patient and willing to take the long-term view. Other folks on here seem to prefer negativity, seem to think that they know better than anyone currently in power, and would prefer to jump ship and call the whole thing a loss.

            1. Maybe some of us don’t put on blinders and drink kool aid at the fountain of Shanahan adoration either. Shanahan may be a great head coach someday. He’s a good X’s and O’s guy. But for all those who think he walks on water simply because he enjoys good press, maybe you should take a critical view at what he actually does rather than what people says he does.

              1. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but it certainly sounds as if you are saying there is nothing in between walking on water and being the worst coach ever as Grant and many others on here seem to think. I have no problem with critical evaluation. What I get tired of, and what I feel is way too pervasive, are out right insults and proclamations that this whole thing is going to be a failure before it has really even gotten started.

              2. No but this has been a disappointment by any dispassionate assessment. I certainly didn’t think this team would be good but I certainly didn’t think they would be so poor either. I don’t think anyone here did either.

                I read the blogs at the start of the year and it looks like many are making excuses for Shanahan and Lynch.

                I get that people have aspirations for a better tomorrow and are willing to forgo this year. Me too! I don’t want to see a return to ineptitude of year-after-year of losing either though. I expect more.

                The current staff has not been particularly inspirational. They may yet, but to date, they have left a lot on the table and I don’t think it’s too much to point it out.

                I don’t think much of Saleh but to date he has done a better job than his boss.

              3. I’m not reading anyone saying Shanahan is blameless or walking on water. What I’m reading is a number of people criticizing him for things beyond his control. If you want to criticize his play calling that’s par for the course, but this season as a whole was never going to be a success in the W/L column. You can’t turn over more than 50% of a roster, install new systems with a new Coaching staff, suffer the most injuries of any team in the league and expect to win games.

                Up until the Dallas game, most were optimistic around here because the team was competing hard and showing signs of progress. Now after that blowout and a crazy number of starters going down with injuries, the negative opinions have gotten completely out of hand and are just a result of frustration. I know it’s hard but try to step back and look at this thing rationally and pin point where and why things have gone the way they have instead of just looking at the record and blaming everything on the HC and GM.

              4. I largely didn’t say much till midway through the season but we are past that marker and we have historic losses 0-9. This is due to some extent to play calling and it has been detailed to in the blog before. The mistakes the coaching staff has made and also the personnel decisions have also been highlighted. They are now compounded. Getting rid of Bowman (do you think Brock Coyle was an upgrade)? Not addressing the OL prior to the preseason. Some of the questionable moves made.

                I am not asking that Shanahan be fired, but people can start asking him some pointed questions? Why he doesn’t have an OC, why he has questionable play calls, what does he specifically plan to do to address 3rd down ineptitude, etc.

              5. No one is above criticism, but things have gotten out of hand in regards to what is being said about the Coaching staff imo. Questioning play calling is a time honored tradition, but Coaches don’t play the game. You have to have players who can win on the field and the Niners just don’t have that. You can blame that on Lynch if you want, but that doesn’t account for the fact this group has had one offseason to put their stamp on the team and most of it involved trying to find out who would remain and who would go. Bowman didn’t want to be here in the role he had. They didn’t go and tell him he was gone; he wanted to go. They addressed the Oline with a number of moves in the offseason, unfortunately they haven’t worked out due to injury and poor play.

                I don’t understand this argument for an OC either. The OC of a team with a HC calling the plays isn’t any different than the setup Shanahan has going on right now. He has a large staff of Coaches on the offensive side of the ball and some with specialty roles in the run and pass game as I mentioned earlier. He’ s not going to give up play calling and he shouldn’t, it’s why he has this job. What he needs are better players and more time to get players well versed in his offense.

      2. So now this isn’t an evaluation year either? Wow! What is this year a freebie for Shanahan?

    3. You forget that the Pats won a SB with one of the most injured rosters in 2015. I don’t think you can use that as a catch all excuse. The challenge for the 49ers is that they have been paper thin. But they were worse than paper thin to begin with.

      1. No.
        Im saying that going into the season most experts were saying this or the browns was the least talented roster in the NFL. So if you combine that with the fact that the niners and bears have the league leading number of injuries reported last week (both reporting 18 with 9 lost for the season) they are essentially fielding an expansion/college all-star roster.
        I’m not even arguing he is doing a good job… I’m arguing that with these things taken into account it’s hard to get a solid eval on him at all.
        I get it, some are over defending while others are trashing him. I believe in giving him at one more year for a few reasons 1. I’d like to get a proper eval once the roster is overhauled with guys he sees as being part of the future and 2. Firing him might scare off any future coaching candidates. 3. It could also scare off Jimmy G. From signing a long term deal. 4. It sets back the rebuild process yet again as the new coach will want players that fit his system.

        1. If you remember correctly I have not advocated for his nor Lynch’s head. I simply want them to be held to the fire more than they are currently. There is a bit too much Shannylynch love for my taste. I believe that you earn love and respect. So far they are strangers and am not sure that I want to buy them a drink.

  11. Not saying I don’t like the JG trade, I do.

    But Kirk Cousins knows how to beat Seattle.

    In Seattle.

    Just sayin’……

    1. They scored 17 points. He didn’t throw a TD. He did get sacked in the endzone for a safety. 10 of their 13 drives were failures. The Seattle kicker missed 3 FG. Wilson threw two picks.

      I’d say they were lucky to get away with a win.

      1. Yet win they did.

        You know Moses, for someone who’s so mad keen on stats, you can be pretty picky which ones you use in your posts! The Redskins managed to do something that only one other team managed to do the whole of last season – beat Seattle at the clink. No-one gets a blow-out victory in Seattle, wins up there are always going to involve a scrap and a little bit of luck.

          1. Yep, I got that.

            But last time I checked, Cousins was part of the team. He passed for a respectable ~250yds. He led the game winning drive in the last minute or two of the game. He threw to put the team within a yard of the end zone for the TD.

            But yeah ok, lets pretend that Washington beat the ‘hawks in spite of Cousins, rather than with his help.

            Anyway… I’ve every confidence Garoppolo will have a game winning drive against Seattle somewhere up his sleeve. Who knows, maybe we’ll get to see in a few weeks time?

            1. Don’t put money on that British9er. Which reminds me, how many followed Grant’s advice on betting this year?

        1. Cousins was excellent yesterday. The Skins had 4 new starters on the Oline due to injuries which led to him being under duress for most of the afternoon and he led a last minute drive to win. Cousins is the real deal. A very good QB playing on a mid level team and excelling anyway.

  12. Hmmmm my Kittle avatar seems to have disappeared.

    Maybe Grant disabled it out of sheer disgust with all those dropped catches

  13. Hey grant,. I’d like to see you do better after taking over this train wreck. Injuries mounting, patchwork oline and players who don’t exactly fit Kyle’s scheme. That Saleh is inexperienced is also hurting the team.

    1. Saleh is actually out coaching Shanahan right now. The D wasn’t the issue as much in this game.

      1. Really? Didn’t Peterson gain over 200 rushing yards? I’d call that a problem. Saleh’s inexperience shines through.

        1. And how much offense was generated? 10 measly points! Quite the juggernaut! Despite Peterson’s 159 yards they limited him to 4.7 yards per carry.

          Nice try with the over exaggeration!

        2. Good God. Saleh could have his ravaged D pitch a shut out. Lose because of a safety or Pick 6 and fans would blame the D for not scoring enough to win the game.
          Why he is the chosen punching bag is beyond me.

            1. EC9er

              Bullship ! That’s never been the case…and posters like you make sure it never will be

              1. I’d like to see someone other than myself and Jack criticize Shanahan. Most of the other posters seem to think “next year, we’ll get em boys!”

                I got news for everyone. This team is a good many years from being competitive at this rate. We need a OL, DBs, Edge Rusher, WRs, TEs, LBs plus we desperately need backups at all the key positions. Oh, and if that isn’t enough we may still need a RB and if JG turns into a dud or gets injured behind our atrocious OL we may need a QB too!

                So we in short we need a whole team except maybe a bit of the DL and a LB and a safety. Just about all those picks are Baalke picks so before all the blame is cast on him remember the strength of the team is his right now.

              2. Grant is in your corner, don’t forget him.

                I think those that are not blaming everything on Shanahan simply understand what this is and didn’t have high expectations going in for year one. I would have liked to have seen a win by now and expected to have one, but in watching the games, I’m not sitting there every week and seeing Coaching mistakes causing the team to lose. I’m seeing a team that is woefully over matched and not being able to make the plays that are there to be made. I question play calls like everybody else, but that is easy to do when you are sitting on your Couch and have no context in what is happening on the sideline. The bottom line is this is a team with little talent and has been decimated by injuries. The expectations Grant and some of his followers had going into this season were ridiculous and anyone who truly believed them is obviously going to be upset and looking to pass blame on the Coaches. For those of us who knew things were going to be tough the first couple of years as a complete rebuild was taking place, it’s not hard to understand why they are where they are.

      2. Coaching can’t over come lack of talent. Look at what the starting Oline featured yesterday and you will see why they didn’t put up more than 10 points. Look at the receivers and tell me who scares anyone. This team was the least talented in the league before they suffered a massive amount of injuries. What is it you guys expect the HC to do? He called more passes than you liked, ok, but many were short passes designed to take away the aggressiveness of the defense and I’m guessing Shanahan also knew the possessions would be limited due to the success the Cardinals were having on the ground. There’s always more to calling a game than the run to pass ratio. Game situations dictate what the calls are going to be and while I agree they should have run the ball more, I don’t see that changing the outcome of the game. It is what it is.

  14. Atlanta before Shanny and after him shows to me that he’s a good coach. Give this regime time. As the old saying goes Rome wasn’t built in a day. People like Grant is why Harbaugh didn’t like talking to the media. Grant has a good eye about things but he also likes to nag on people when they fail.

    1. Atlanta was also pretty good prior to Shanahan. Does that count for something?

      Atlanta having a den year is nothing new. It’s called a SB hangover!

      1. Atlanta having a den year is nothing new. It’s called having Steve Sarkisian as your offensive coordinator.

  15. “Worst offensive line in the league. Giving these guys an F-minus would be too kind. I had to go Greek alphabet for them.” Hilarious!

    Next Sunday it’s now or never for a 2017 49er win.. The New York Football Giants are woeful.. Quit on their coach and are going through the motions. This game is it. Otherwise it’s 0-16 this season..

  16. This team is seriously lacking in talent. Maybe 3-4 of these players have a long enough career to still be on the team when it finally becomes a winner 2-3 years from now. Maybe.

    The Shanahan system still looks pretty interesting. But the overall level of coaching is unimpressive.

    As Ronnie Lott used to say, the NFL often boils down to who outhits who. If you’re getting outhit, you’re going to suffer more of the injuries. If you have any questions about whether we’re outhitting anyone, check out the Injured Reserve list.

    Overall, everything about this team screams Failure, but I’ll give it a D- because we have a young innovative coach and a GM who seems (sometimes all too) ready to keep shuffling the deck to find players who might make it to the next winning era.

  17. Shanahan will get this ship up-righted by next year. I believe Grant purposely puts an edge on his grades and reporting to rouse the masses (or in this case his readers).
    Anyone with an eye for analytics can see that this team probably has been hit with the injury bug more than any other team this year.

    What’s important to me is that the team is still playing hard and has not tanked over the past 9 weeks.
    Sure, Tomsula and Chip have had better records up to this point than has Shanahan, but Tomsula still had some good players carried over from the Harbaugh regime. Chip came to the 49ers with some heavy baggage that may have carried over from his demise in Philly and didn’t bode well in the locker room.
    Point; the FO wanted to see an immediate impact and their tolerance level was set very low for these coaches.

    We’ve all known that this team is 3-4 years away from becoming relevant again and making a push towards the playoffs would not happen over night. My take is that young, and many injured players learning a new and complicated system that takes a couple seasons to conquer does not bring immediate success.
    And those who continue to throw the coaches and players under the bus are missing the big picture.
    PATIENCE will pay off.

    1. This team hasn’t been hit with the injury bug more than other years. What matters is that because they were especially thin they didn’t have injuries to give. Any injuries create difficulties almost immediately for this team.

      This whole it is a complicated system, the previous regime had better players routine is a bit specious to me. They have been bringing in players and some of you have been saying play them right away(Garoppolo). How difficult can the system be if the player is ready to go after one week? And the previous regime had better players works only if you remember that this regime turned over the roster-why? Because the previous roster was supposedly so bad?!

      1. East, you might want to check the numbers on that.
        This team has been hit more by injuries than in the past… they and the bears lead the league in injuries, reporting 18 last week with 9 out for the season (and at least 1 more that may be in Arik Armstead, who was not listed as out for the season.) And we have just reached the half way point.

        1. It’s not that unusual for teams to have injuries. We lost many starters two years ago and backups. What was bit strange was the number of injuries in the last two weeks. In 2015 we had 10 players out going into week 8 I believe, with 8 gone for the season. The number gone for the season are certainly comparable. What is true is that this team was not good prior to any injury and wasn’t winning games then either.

          1. 2015 was a bad year and the numbers are comparible but the players were not. The only ones of note were Beathea, Hyde, and Kilgore at this point for that team.
            The others were Desmond Bishop, Reggie Bush, Deandre Smelter, Kendal Hunter, Dres Anderson…
            This year the niners have lost far more, especially on defense.

            1. You forget those were key players. Bush was an important player that was lost. Some of ours this year include Williams, Burbidge, Jackson, Newsome too!

              That team also had a spate of retirements but yet were competitive. Pick other years and you will see that injuries happen.

              1. Bush was a backup running back.
                This year the niners have lost Garcon, Garnett, Armstead, Ward, Tartt, and Smith for the season not to mention Staley, Foster, Brown, and Thomas for a few games.
                And while not by injury they are also missing Bowman who wasn’t happy here (which in my opinion it was dumb move to let him go for nothing).

    2. I disagree. I don’t think Grant does anything purposely. I think he is a kid who was late getting into the game, has adopted his Father’s caustic style without the experience to back it up, and reacts based on what he sees without any regard to the overall issues that surround the team. That’s why he foolishly hyped this team in the offseason and is now criticizing everything about one of the best offensive minds in the game. I haven’t commented much over the years but I have read a lot and Grant changes his mind and opinions like most change their shirt. There is no commitment to giving a real understanding of the team, just the week to week TMZ style hit pieces that come from somebody who lacks an understanding of the game and what it takes to succeed in it. If anyone is coming here to get an educated view on football, you’re wasting your time. This is simply a place for people to get riled up and vent. It’s entertaining once in awhile but that’s about it. You want informative, go someplace else.

  18. So, what will the record for this team be? I asked what would be a sign of improvement. Doubling last year’s marker would be a significant sign of improvement at 4-12 but I seriously doubt this team is capable of even achieving that. I’m not even sure they’re capable of achieving 2-14.

    For those of you who think that Garoppolo will come in and save the day, let me bring you down to earth. This team has a serious problem converting 3rd downs. The offensive line allowed way too many hits on CJB and didn’t give him enough time to throw (most of the time), receivers are still dropping balls, still have way too many mistakes (penalties, giveaways), and they aren’t doing too much once in the red zone. Garoppolo would need to be the second coming of Tom Brady to change that, and if he was capable of getting beyond all that, why would NE part with him instead of the aging TB?

    Sadly, this team will be far worse than any team in the history of the franchise. Will it improve next year? That is a big question mark. People are saying that Hyde will be gone. Will his replacement be any better? Better hope so, because right now he is primarily the offense.

    I remain unconvinced that Shanahan will lead us to the promised land. He may, and hope he does, but his work so far leaves much to be desired. Lynch, a glorified disc jockey (I’m borrowing your term Seb for tongue in cheek reasons), has also looked shaky coming out of the box and his “this didn’t come out of my office” excuse rang hollow. If he truly wants to win he doesn’t high five a player that gets ejected in a tight contest, especially when that player is instrumental to the offense. That goes against everything he supposedly preached at the beginning of the year.

  19. There is not a single coach in the NFL who could win with the amount of injuries the 49ers have sustained this year. That’s just a fact. Shanahan gets a pass on everything this year and next. I will say dropping CJ Beathard back 51 times behind that offensive line is cruel and unusual punishment. This kid is going to end this year with a nervous twitch and a stuttering problem.

    My confidence in Lynch/Shanny’s ability to find a QB is somewhat shaken. I’m only a fan and I knew signing Brian Hoyer was a disaster. I was a bit shocked by overreaching for CJ Beathard but thought they knew what they were doing. Beathard doesn’t look like he has even the bare minimum requirement in arm strength to be an NFL QB.

    1. But Houston Shanahan is supposedly a keen guy when it comes to scouting the next best QB. Isn’t that what everyone says?

      He doesn’t get a pass everyone has injuries. That is the NFL. I will grant you that no one can survive our OL, but I said as much way back in training camp. I stated flatly that the OL looked a lot like last year’s. I was told that this one was geared for the ZB scheme. How’d that work out?

      1. Cmon. The 49ers were missing 3 o-lineman, and their #1 WR in the game yesterday. The only thing you can really pin on Shanny is thinking Brian Hoyer is capable. This roster is absolutely terrible. Just get through this year and I think you will see Shanny is a good coach.

        1. Drafted CJB early, traded a pick to do so (might have picked up an OL)
          Traded away a pick for Bibbs ( could have had a better receiver)
          Joe Williams (and traded a pick which would have been valuable)

          All of these by themselves are not bad moves if they work out but they have largely failed to do anything at all to make this team better. The mere fact that capital was expended to acquire them makes the moves far more egregious.

          Those weren’t the only bad moves either. But it’s an illustration of the missteps that our coach and GM have made.

          1. There are faults all around, but you need players to make plays.

            I believe Bethard was always slated to be the back-up QB… perhaps one we could deal in 3 years at end of contract. That may still be the case. Dude is in a bad situation right now.

            Man I hope I eat crow about Solly Thomas… boy, Lattimore is looking good right now, and Adams, and that other guy they were comparing to Ed Reed…the one who has an INT in 3 straight games…for Indy… oh yeah Hooker.

            The Joe Williams pick will look bad if Niners draft one of these RBs in the first two rounds. (PLESASE DO NOT DRAFT A RB in the first two rounds). My hope is that they are stashing him and see the talent, Grant sure did… boy did he ever.

            Regarding Brian Hoyer – If not Hoyer, then WHO?? He came in and had some decent games. He missed throws and reads sure, but he was OK. Shanny was looking for above average play. That would of been great. He didn’t have a great team around him and just folded. But other then rafting a rookie QB high, what should we have one at QB? Maybe give up a 1st for Cousins…. I just don’t know

              1. The 49ers did attempt to address the o-line in the offseason. The moves just haven’t worked out – similar to the QB position. They lost Garnett who they had penciled in to start. The 49ers traded for an All-Pro Center and also traded for a guard who had been taken in the 1st round in 2015. It’s simply not correct to say the 49ers did not attempt to address the o-line. They tried to build the o-line through FA & trades and focused on defense in the draft. The plan simply failed. Will be interesting to see if they change course next year and attempt to draft o-lineman while shoring up defense through free agency.

                September 1,
                G Laken Tomlinson (Trade)

                May 2

                C Tim Barnes (FA)

                Barnes (6-4, 300) originally signed as an undrafted free agent with the Baltimore Ravens on July 28, 2011. Following his release from Baltimore on September 3, 2011, he was signed to the St. Louis Rams practice squad on September 13, 2011, where he spent the remainder of the season. Over the next five seasons with the Rams (2012-16), he appeared in 77 games (36 starts), including starts in all 32 games at center over the past two years (2015-16).

                OL Brandon Fusco (FA)

                Fusco (6-4, 306) was originally drafted by the Minnesota Vikings in the sixth round (172nd overall) of the 2011 NFL Draft. In six seasons with the Vikings (2011-16), he appeared in 67 regular season games (64 starts), while also starting two postseason games. In 2016, he started in all 14 games he appeared in at right guard.

                April 18

                OL Garry Gilliam (FA)

                Gilliam (6-5, 315) originally signed as an undrafted free agent with the Seattle Seahawks on May 10, 2014. In three seasons with the Seahawks (2014-16), he appeared in 44 regular season games (30 starts) in addition to six postseason games (four starts) along the offensive line. In 2016, he saw action in 14 games (13 starts) and started both postseason contests for Seattle.

                MARCH 15

                OL Jeremy Zuttah (Trade)

                Zuttah (6-4, 300), a nine-year veteran, has appeared in 131 games (117 starts) in addition to two postseasons contests (two starts) throughout his career. In 2016, he started all 16 games for the Ravens along the team’s offensive line and earned his first career selection to the Pro Bowl.

              2. “The 49ers did attempt to address the o-line in the offseason. The moves just haven’t worked out – similar to the QB position.”

                Yep. And the same goes for just about every personnel move these guys have made.

              3. On offense the only holdovers are Staley, Kilgore, Brown, Hyde, Beadles and Celek.

                The other 17 are all ShanaLynch guys.

                The whole, “Baalke mess” is an excuse for the fact that they failed to bring in players that were better.

              4. Who were they supposed to bring in? Where were all these players available that should have been brought in to make them better?

              5. Like HOU said, they did try to upgrade the oline in the offseason. My guess is next year, Garnett will be back and healthy so it should have the right side fully capable with him and Brown.
                Staley returns and now we need to draft and or sign a center and a LG.

                From there the order of priority:
                2. Corner
                3. WR

                I like the idea that we don’t have QB on that list anymore.

              6. The draft stunk for offensive lineman in 2017. F/A offensive lineman that are worth anything are few and far between, or highly overpriced. The 49ers 1st round pick has to be Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame. Then they need to replace Kilgore in the 3rd round with Bradley Bozeman, C, Alabama.

              7. I’m not against drafting an OG with the first pick, but it would have to involve a trade down.

              8. Nelson is just as good a run blocker as Iupati, and better in Pass Pro than he was coming out. He’s not going to drop out of the top ten….

              9. 4 years of horrible drafting all reconciled in one draft and one offseason?
                Hammer, get serious!

              10. No, but when you choose to cut or trade players and the guys you replace them with are not better that becomes a problem.

              11. In a complete culture change and rebuild, you sometimes have to rid yourself of guys who might be more talented and replaced with development projects. You hope they help you in the end.

                That evaluation happens next year.

              12. Lol. It shouldn’t take a year of evaluation to know Bourne, and Robinson weren’t better than the guys they replaced. Shoot, Goodwin isn’t really either.

    2. It is not as if they played against a healthy team, or a powerhouse. Come one…

      Moreover, it is not just one game, it is the sum of the 8 games thus far. They stink…they are Tampa Bay Bucs 1980’s bad.

      1. Chess,
        If I recall, we had a bad team in 1979. I’m glad we didn’t give up on that team and the head coach after one year.

  20. The team still has fight so obviously they believe in Shanahan but the players need to get stronger in many areas – including physically. Getting pushed around all day is not fun to watch. Our OL sucks balls but our DL is not far behind (even when they were healthy). I saw Buckner lifted off his feet twice yesterday and for all the nice reviews of Mitchell pre-Niners, he also gets pushed back way too often. Strength/conditioning and DL coaches have to go…. Saleh also seems in over his head… Who has the worst run D in the league giving up 136 yards per game? Your San Francisco 49ers :/ Jimmy O’Neil pt 2….

  21. The football gods are not pleased with the 49ers, and Beathard is our sacrificial lamb to atone for our past sins.

    1. I’m with you on that. They both have gumption. I like that.

      I also think Kittle will be solid in future years.

    2. UC as to Saleh – I’ll paraphrase Elvis – a little less conversation about violence and a lot more action on fundamentals.

  22. This feels like a Chip Kelly hangover. The issues are identical to last year only the faces have changed.

  23. It’s been debated and will be debated whether the team should first build strong lines for the trenches and get some good skill players before bringing in a potential franchise QB. MDS over at PFT thinks that you get the QB as soon as possible and uses the Philadelphia Eagles as his example:

    “Basically, this offense looks nothing like the offense Chip Kelly left behind — and the rebuilt offense looks ready to take Philadelphia to a Super Bowl. A team can rebuild in a hurry. As long as it finds the right quarterback.”

    1. You have to take the franchise QB because they are rare and you might only have one shot at getting one, if any.

      The most important positions are.

      LT (protect the QB)
      Edge rusher (get to the QB)

      1. With regards to the franchise QB, I agree. I really thought the Eagles were nuts when they signed Bradford to a high number, Daniels to $7 million as a backup and then traded a king’s ransom in picks in order to pick #2 and grab Wentz. Huge risk, imo, but so far it’s rewarded them. My point is that teams will take big risks to get a potential franchise QB. Jimmy G came at a very reasonable price, so I think the risk is low with potential good to great reward.

        1. “Jimmy G came at a very reasonable price, so I think the risk is low with potential good to great reward.”


  24. “Retreat, Hell! We’re just advancing in a different direction!”
    Gen. O.P.Smith, Chosin, Korea

    Kyle Shanahan’s in Survival Mode trying to put an team on the field with all the injury depletions. While you can admire the grit in a three legged dog, you don’t want to bet on him winning many races.
    That said, those ragging on Shanny and posting moronic “chess/checkers” comments can’t see the forest for the trees. We’ll remember in a couple of years who said what. Legitimate critiques are fine, but it’s pretty hard to pass judgement under these circumstances.
    Yesterday was like ’79: Who made that play? Who is that guy? And who is that guy next to him? And why can’t he (block, tackle, make a catch, etc)?
    The survivors of this mess and the off-season roster changes ( ?), will be tougher for the experience. and I even have a grudging respect for the hopelessly incompetent OL guys going out there and battling through a major axe whopping.
    In short:

  25. “I thought we should have had more (sacks),” Arians said, via the Cardinals official website. “That was a beat-up offensive line. God bless Beathard. He’s tough as nails and stood in there and threw the ball, because we hit him a bunch.”

    “What did Garoppolo think of Beathard taking all those shots?

    “He’s a tough dude to get up from that,” Garoppolo said. “It’s hard to be a quarterback in this league and take hits like that.”

    That could be you pretty soon, Jimmy.”


    1. While I’m not and never have been under the delusion that the Niners were going to be competitive in the W/L column this year and the injuries have made sure it’s going to be an all time bad season, I continue to question the trade for Garoppolo. It seems like Lynch and Shanahan just reacted to the offer made by the Pats without really thinking it through and it cost them a really valuable draft pick. I don’t know how you can get an accurate read on JG this season behind this Oline and having to learn a new offense half way through a season. They are pretty much forced to overpay him on a long term deal (if he even wants to sign long term) or franchise him based on what they gave up and yet don’t have the talent around him to give him a real chance to succeed. I think it was a mistake and they should have waited until the offseason to deal with the QB issue.

  26. CJ is my guy……..mad respect for the kid………

    ““God bless Beathard,” blurted Cardinals head coach Bruce Arians afterward. “He’s tough. He’s tough as nails and stood in there and threw the ball, because we hit him a bunch.”

    If nothing else, the 49er may have something special in the man who could be the sturdiest of backups, if not still the future starter if and when Beathard can sharpen his abilities as a professional and has a few more weapons — and quality linemen — around him. It wouldn’t be wise to count him out of the “QB of the Future” battle, that’s for sure. Not a guy who battles like this.

    Maybe Beathard doesn’t throw the sweetest spiral. Maybe he doesn’t make the headiest decisions. Maybe he doesn’t have the ideal size or arm strength scouts and coaches covet. But this young man has the grit of 10 men, and that’s something to hang your helmet on wading through the mire of this nightmare 49ers rut.”

    1. I agree….no one can take that kind of beating and still play.

      Also, call me crazy because I think so…..but Fusco is showing a lot of heart (playing through injury) and I think he will stick around at least as a backup next season.

  27. Hey, look on the bright side. They only tied Kaep’s horrid 9 loses in a row last year! I think anyone with a fair mind would admit the team could not afford to lose one player on this depleted roster to honestly compete and win in this league. When they were mostly healthy, they did. They are way beyond that point now, but even so, continue to play hard for KS, despite the negativity seething from the press and some fans. The injuries are a result of playing hard, not because they are giving up. That’s just idiotic. They all want to win, and are trying their best, but they aren’t good enough right now, especially with the amount of injuries. This team has more character than the Kaep led teams ever had. No divided locker room. That’s obvious.
    This team will be back, but it’s gonna take time. Years. KS isn’t going anywhere. JL isn’t going anywhere. Garoppolo will sign a long term deal because he knows this team will rise.
    As far as the press, as has been stated before, another Cohn called for Bill Walsh’s head mid season back in ’79. We all know how that turned out. Hopefully Jed and the Yorks will not be swayed by the “gotchya journalism” and negativity swirling around the team and let JL and KS do their work. Patience is key.
    On the press note, I personally have no problem with Grants columns. I know going in that he is coming from a negative point of view. I believe in his periscope yesterday he said he’d coach the team if given the chance.? That pretty much says it all. It’s entertainment fellas. Keep it in perspective. Grant, were still looking for a coach for a local middle school 7th/8th grade flag football team. Step up to the plate!!

    1. Juan, thanks for bringing up Kaep again. Since they are terrified JG might get injured, they should just sign Kaep to a -Prove it contract, and let him play, because CJB is not only battered and rattled, he is probably concussed. JG, if uninjured, could provide 2 first round draft picks, so that may be the best strategy. If JG gets injured, he loses all trade value. JG does not want to play behind that O line, and Staley even has whiffed so he is no guarantee of any protection. JG will get better offers from playoff teams, so that is why he was reticent at the PC. He knows the Niners are a dumpster fire, and no QB has succeeded here for 3 years. It is a full rebuild with little winning.
      No QB would do well behind that putrid line, but Kaep is quick and elusive, and is strong enough to shrug off arm tackles. CJB had a 57 QBR, Kaep has a 90.7 QBR. With Kaep leading this team, they might have a chance to win, because they only gave up 159 yards to a RB, not 200.

  28. CJB does not deserve the beating he is getting. The Niner coaches should devise plays that negate the blitz. Running the ball is an easy way to stop the QB getting sacked and hit.
    Instead of keeping Hyde in to block, maybe they should swing him out in the flat so he could accept a quick outlet safety valve pass.
    How many times did they call for a screen pass? Zero?
    Instead of rolling out CJB with a defender in his face, maybe they should have a controlled rollout with a blocker in front, who could then morph into a receiver for an additional option.
    Maybe they should have tried a reverse, a fake reverse, and even a double reverse. The fly sweep is not in the playbook, and putting a man on motion, then having him stop is defeating the whole purpose of having a man in motion.
    They should have taken advantage of the defense’s speed by doing counters and misdirections.
    They did some draw plays in a previous game, but that play was also absent from this last game’s playbook.
    They let Hyde carry the ball 12 times. They gave the rock to AP 37 times, and some wonder why the Niners lost.
    Second guessing the punt at the end of the first half is easy. Niners should have tried a FG. However, I would have called for a Third Down Bomb. CJB should have done a controlled rollout to buy time, then flung the ball to the 5 yard line. It would essentially be a jump ball, on a hail Mary pass. If it works, they have the ball on the 5 yard line for a possible TD. The defense cannot interfere, so if it draws a Pass interference call, that is as good as a catch. If the defense intercepts, they start on the 5 yard line because all the offensive receivers should be able to down him.
    Guess they went timid, and did not want to play Garoppolo, and with that putrid O line, I could see their reasoning. Still, they should have let JG hand off the ball a few times. It does not require the total mastery of the playbook to accomplish that goal. Instead, they were content to have CJB get bludgeoned.

  29. …….How much was spent on the O-line last offseason?……the answers gives you a better understanding of our problem….

  30. How to solve the O line problems? Keep Brown at RT. Listen to Deese. Put in Williams at LT.
    Maybe be bold and start Beadles at center, and move Kilgore to RG, if Fusco is too injured. Leave Tomlinson at RG.
    So the line up would be- Williams, Tomlinson, Beadles, Kilgore and Brown. When Staley is healthy, he could replace Williams.

    1. Fusco was out best blocker this week in spite of his injury. He didn’t even give up a pressure.
      Pulling him might be the best thing for him but could get CJ killed.

  31. Coach Seb, come on! Step up to the plate! You can run all those wonderful plays in full view of the middle school moms! I’m sure they’d be impressed. I’m just flabbergasted that the NFL hasn’t reached out to you. Kyle should contact you immediately for the OC job. Only if he “really wanted to win” of course. Unbelievably huge eyeroll!! Keep it up though. I spit my coffee up laughing. You always make me do that! Ya gotta love it!!

    1. Juan, with your huge ego, you would be the perfect coach. Give it a try, and brag how well you have done. You could even dust off your Football for Dummies book to prove how SB QBs with 4-2 road playoff records are awful.

      1. SB QB’s with a 4-2 record are unemployed at the moment. Oh wait, big conspiracy theory again!
        Maybe you and Grant should get together Seb and come up with a soap opera and make up some tantalizing story lines.

      2. Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Seb, dont talk to anybody about their “huge ego”. Your priceless!!

  32. The 49ers are on pace for 650 pass attempts this year. The most in franchise history. With an offensive line that everyone says struggles in pass protection. That number jumps to 707 when you move to total drop backs.

    Remember when previous coaches would be ripped for not “playing to the strengths of the players”?

    1. “#49ers are dialing up passing plays at the highest rate in the NFL (67 percent), yet have second worst team passer rating (69.1).”

      From Chris Biderman twitter

  33. Seb, I would so look forward to seeing your coaching “shape” the other middle school teams! LMAO!! I have a side ache. Hope it goes away. I have a 11:00 tee time!

  34. Seb: You know I am closer to your point of view as regards Kap than the haters. But…..Kap is gone. He is never coming back. Don’t respond to the haters who keep bringing him up.

    Whenever I see the haters bring up Kap, I am reminded of fox news and the right wing talk radio hosts bringing up Hillary whenever the news cycle throws up a particularly bad day for Trump. Hillary lost. She is not the president. Saying she did something bad seven years ago is not an excuse for Trump’s staffers colluding with the Russians…

    I have moved on. Kap is no longer relevant. The nine losses in a row this year are what is important. What Kap did or did not do in 2016… who cares.

    1. Except, Rick, you have not moved on. Your still pissing and moaning about Trump…………..on a football blog………………just. like.Sebninny.

      1. This was the first time I mentioned Kap (or Trump for that matter) since Shanahan was hired. And it was in context of advising Seb to move on. Look it up.

        Why do Trump supporters have such a thin skin. Could it be that their emperor has no clothes..

        1. Why mention any politics of any kind at all? On a football blog? Do you really want to end up a zealot?
          The final sentence of your response shows what is on your mind 24/7. let it go. Come to this blog for escape from that sewage.
          Its a helluva lot better than making false and hasty generalizations about other people that you have never met……………….

  35. Kyle was fine. There were so many open (bad) receivers and plenty of missed opportunities (throws) to win the game. At some point, somebody’s got to catch a pass or throw one accurately.

  36. Grant,
    You sound a lot like your Dad and Glenn Dickey did back in 79 they both were ready to run Walsh out of town on a rail. Learn from your father’s mistakes, bad talent can make a good coach look bad. I do agree with you Shanahan needs to hire an offensive coordinator this off season, he needs to stay heavily involved in game planning but needs to let his OC call the plays. As to Beathard I believe he will develop into a quality back up if not a decent starter. Once again we need to see him behind a better O line with some weapons before we throw him on the scrap heap. We have the start of a chicken little syndrome going on around here.

    1. I disagree. Shanahan got this job because of his ability as a play caller so it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to take that away. He doesn’t need an OC either. He has a large staff of Coaches on the offensive side of the ball with two having specialty roles as running game and passing game specialists. He has plenty of help with the offensive game planning; he just needs talent to game plan with.

      1. Niner Realist – No on many of your comments. FYI, Kyle is having the same problem which afflicted Josh McDaniels in Denver, and now what most recently has plagued the head coach of the Niners upcoming opponent, Ben McAdoo of the NY Giants.

        Also, the majority of you in blog land have overlooked the fact that KS’s scheme, which he used in Atlanta and against the Patriots defense in the Super Bowl, has been dissected, scrutinized and analyzed to the nth degree since that come from ahead to lose game.

        Therefore, Niner opponents, since little Shanny stated that he is installing the same scheme that he had in Atlanta, not only are game planning for lesser talented 49er players attempting to execute Shanny’s scheme but also have 7 or 8 months of research and AI plus chalk chalks among friends in the league to come up with better defensive schemes to defend what little Shanny likes to run, including formations and shifting and motioning packages.

        That’s exactly why the scheme never can remain the same!!!!!! Can’t survive by xeroxing last year’s playbook when you go to another franchise because a.) you don’t have the same players, and b.) the opponents are going to do their homework on you and come up with a way to minimize the impact your scheme has on their defense.

        KS failed to realize either of those elements.

        1. Mike, Shanahan runs a WCO. Variants of it are widely used around the league so your belief that teams have now figured out how to stop it is pretty amusing in it’s ignorance. There is nothing wrong with the system. There are routinely open receivers and plays to be made that are not. What is plaguing the 49ers is a lack of talent. Shanahan has been a play caller for a long time and didn’t forget how to do it or get figured out since the SB. The problem he has is an Oline that is unable to function and a limited QB and playmakers to make it work when the Oline is able to protect.

          Focusing blame on the Coaching staff when a team is playing poorly is low hanging fruit. There is a lot more to this teams struggles beyond Coaching.

          1. Bill Belichick made some significant half-time adjustments which shut down Shanny’s offense, especially penetration at the 4 and 5 holes to negate the run game, in the second half of the SB, and Shanny did not have the answers in the run game and eventually lost even though he had Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Sanu, Gabriel, a TE and 2 RBs.

            1. No he didn’t. The Falcons had an 8 play TD drive on their second possession of the 3rd quarter. What cost the Falcons was a fumble by Ryan deep in his own end, and the fact they didn’t run the ball in situations they should have to take more time off the clock. They were also unlucky as they converted a couple of 3rd downs that would have put them in scoring range that were called back due to penalty.

              Nobody has figured out Shanahan’s offense. Much of what you see week to week from every offense are things that have been run many times before. There are subtle changes that are made but for the most part every team has a core offense and plays they run. It comes down to execution and that hinges on talent which Shanahan had in Atlanta, but doesn’t have here.

        2. Walsh employed his own scheme, year after year. As he got better players, it became more effective. And that scheme was dissected all decade long.

          They won a few games…………………….

  37. Reminder to everyone following the 49ers this year. Shanny has not come in and devised a scheme to fit the personnel. He has come in and coached the scheme he wants to play in the future, regardless of if it suites the strength of the personnel.

    Why? Because this year is an evaluation of who on the current roster fits and who does not.

    Now if next year, at this time of year, we are winless, your criticism is warranted. Until then, sit back, and enjoy the rebuild.

    1. Prime, you can’t explain simple knowledge to those who want the world all in one breath. It may just be time to read the comments, and move on. If they are pissed,it’s their feeling so let it go. But to my eye, and my opinion, I’m with u, and have been on that page since they were hired. While everyone was talking about 9 wins and 6 wins and 4 wins, I was talking about evaluation. You can’t go anywhere in sports and completely strip down a team, and replace them with non vet, non leadership, backup type players and expect some sort of glory. But that was my thinking as a realist.

      1. Steelematic – Sorry, but your comment about “non vet, non leadership, backup type players” is way off because little Shanny went out in FA and signed how many veteran players 7 or 8????? Garcon, Hoyer, the FB, a TE, a RB, an OL, etc. At the time of these signings plus the defensive FAs, posters on this site and media gurus were lauding Shanny for bringing in veterans who knew his system and had played for him in Cleveland, Washington and Atlanta, and most of all, had something left in their tanks. Other than Garcon, most of those tanks hit the “E” for empty fairly quickly. Those were his guys and his choices!!!!!! Why should he not be held accountable?????

      2. Great point Steel. Years and years and actually an entire 2012 draft class whiffed on. That catches up to an organization.
        To think one offseason was going to change this around and a coach with having a history of putting together good offenses was going to come in, add new players and take a 2 win team to 9 wins? Come on man!

    2. Your comment reminds me of a recent article I read about the Houston Astros. When Jeff Luhnow took over as GM he had a plan which combined use of sabermetrics with good old fashioned baseball scouting. The plan called for the Astros to get rid of all high priced talent on the major league roster and build the team through the draft and key trades. The Astros knew they would endure a few seasons of awful baseball before they would start to be good. They lost over 100 games three years in a row but while doing so they rebuilt their organization with really good young talent. Now the Astros are positioned for sustained success with a young major league roster and absolutely loaded farm system. In my opinion, the 49ers are in the same position right now. They have a plan and they are going to build the roster. They will probably be bad for another year or even 2 years before the team gels and is competitive.

        1. 49ers have $50M in cap space next year. I really don’t follow the NFL Cap talk. Why does this show the 49ers with $14M in dead money? Only the Bills have more in dead money. Makes me somewhat concerned that York won’t spend money if he’s paying off old contracts.


          1. The dead money is mostly due to “cap hits” next year from the signing bonuses previously paid to Bowman, McDonald, Dial, Hoyer and Kerley. It’s my understanding that those signing bonuses are pro-rated by the length of the player’s contract to provide a hit to the salary cap each year of the player’s contract. So a $20 million signing bonus for a 5 year contract amounts to a $4 mill per year hit on the salary cap over five years. I believe “dead money” refers to salary cap hits from players who are no longer on the team. Dead money isn’t only from signing bonuses, but signing bonuses often do make up the lion’s share of the dead money.

            I really don’t think Jed is interfering with the FO and HC managing the salary cap (unless he’s doing it stealthily via Marathe). I think he wants to win and the last thing he needs right now is to fire another HC and possibly GM and have their contracts on the non-salary cap books for the forseeable future.

            1. However, I forgot that the turnout at games has been poor. Apparently, the turnout yesterday was really low even though all seats were paid for. This is an issue that I think would cause Jed to put pressure on the the FO. In Jed’s mind, the new stadium was due mostly to him – it’s his baby. The Jimmy G signing is good for PR, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he let it be known that he is “looking forward” to seeing what Jimmy can do this year (hint, hint…).

              1. Yup. If you could draw up a perfect face of the franchise, it would be Garoppolo. He makes the women swoon and makes the men drool over his potential. He doesn’t have any legal issues and would never be a distraction. Jed should want to sign him long term as much as anyone. I just hope that York and Marathe don’t try to low ball him.

          2. “49ers have $50M in cap space next year.”

            Make that about $30-27M if they keep Garoppolo.

            1. I believe there will be about $60 million in cap space that rolls over from 2017 to 2018, so the total salary cap space available in 2018 is more like $110 million.

              1. I think Ryan Jensen of the Ravens would be a good pickup at center, but to my knowledge he’s been playing well so the Ravens probably want to keep him. I’m not sure but I think he’ll be a UFA in 2018, which means he could be lured by money.

                Razor: What’s your take on Jensen?

              2. Above average, and I would expect the Ravens to keep him. If we can get him, Center would no longer be an issue. He won’t be cheap….

              3. It would be his second contract and he would be fairly young at 27. I just don’t like the idea of putting all of the eggs in the draft bucket for fixing the OL issues if at all possible.

    3. Nope. He brought a scheme and tried to bring personnel to fit the scheme. Not quite the same thing.

      Just curious, but what are everyone’s expectations for next year? Is 4-12 acceptable? How about 5-11? What will be a sign of that Shanahan magic I keep hearing about?

      I think anything less than 4-12 is a lost season though for next year. Anyone see KS winning coach of the year? How about any of our rookies winning any awards? Will Buckner make the Pro Bowl. He’s the only one even remotely within reach. Sad, the state of the franchise. Thanks York!

      1. 8-8, 7-9 is a must. That’s realistic now with Jimmy G and the assets to get upgrades at key positions.

  38. https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/11/6/16613192/49ers-cardinals-recap-trent-brown-erik-magnuson-tackle-grades-joe-staley

    Article states that Brown and Magnuson were bright spots on the OL. I definitely saw Brown fail to stop a rusher but don’t remember if that guy actually sacked CJB. If you believe PFF, Fusco had a good game since he garnered PFF’s highest OL score (I believe he gave up no sacks and no hurries).

    “Laken Tomlinson allowed three sacks, one hit, and two hurries, and Daniel Kilgore allowed a sack, two hits, and one hurry.”

    If it really is only the Center and LG that are the problem, then shouldn’t this be fixable over a single offseason. Also, did anyone notice if Williams played yesterday; I was struggling trying to figure out who was on the field.

      1. I honestly don’t know, Prime; Garnett wasn’t impressive last year and there’s nothing to judge him on for this year.

        I’m still trying to figure out how Washington had four new starting OL (three that were signed during the last week of October) provide decent protection to Cousins yesterday in the game against the Seahawks at the CLink (one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL). I think part of the OL problems might be due to CJB at times getting the ball out relatively slower than a Cousins or Jimmy G. I don’t really like saying that because CJB is taking such a beating, without complaining, and because he is just a rookie. OL can make a QB look better than he is, but it seems like the reverse is true as well.

        1. Here is hoping he gets healthy and then we have the right side of the line solved. I think Kilgore is fine, although a successor is needed and should be drafted as should a LG.
          I was impressed by Magnusson yesterday but the biggest areas needing immediate attention is Corner, WR and OLB.

          Ive been giving Shanny and Lynch a pass but I will say, the signings of Dummervill, Juscyck, and Fusco have not been great

          1. Kilgore is not fine…lol. Dude routinely gets overpowered because he lacks sand in his pants.

            1. I agree. An upgrade is needed but with Garnett back and an upgrade at LG, we might be able to keep Kilgore at Center until we can address it in year 3.

              1. IMO all three interior OL spots need to be upgraded from what they have there this year. If Garnett is one of those upgrades then great.

                The only guy I would consider keeping as a starter next year so long as they upgrade the other two spots is Fusco. He has been very hit or miss this year, but I think the misses would be fewer and farther between if the guys around him were better.

              2. I agree, Big Scooty! Until we solidify the interior of this offensive line, we’ll continue to be abused offensively. Quick penetration ruins the outside zone running game, and doesn’t allow the pocket passer to step up and deliver. Everybody wants a sexy draft with Barkley or a X Receiver, but this team is years away from making those type of luxury picks….

              3. Scooter:

                I know he’s up there in age, but what about signing Nick Mangold for the rest of the season. As far as I know he has not been signed and is still an available FA. Might be able to provide some better protection at the center position for the QBs, especially if we want to evaluate Jimmy G.

              4. Razor – yep. This off season needs to be almost entirely offense (with the exception of a CB and ideally an edge rusher too, but that’s going to probably be too much in one off season). Rebuild the OL the main priority.

                Getting another WR would obviously be a good thing (Jeffrey in FA could be an option), as would a starting RB, but those are priorities after they fix the OL.

                Cubus – I doubt Mangold is going to be in any shape to be playing football for quite a few weeks after signing at least. This season is over for the 49ers, so I wouldn’t bother with Mangold. I’d actually bring back Zuttah before bringing in Mangold.

              5. I know I have been sayin this every year but is there ever been a more important draft and free agency period then this one coming up?

                This past year was just throwing whatever you could to help fill many holes. Most of what they drafted this year will take years to develop.

                Is it too much to ask to come out of this offseason with:

                1.Lock down slam it shut corner?

                2. Starting caliber LG?

                3. Bonafide #1, never drops a ball WR?

                4. A pass rusher known to man kind?

  39. if that rookie had stayed in bounds on the last drive….. and scored the touchdown…….

    that is our season in a nutshell……..”what if”

  40. I can’t wait to see grant in his strong backpeddle game when this coach and team rebuild into a winner.
    I can’t imagine what his daddy was saying about the Walsh teams pre 81.

      1. True. I want to say the 79 team that started the year out 0-7 still had a top 10 rated offense. On top of having an outstanding offense, Walsh had an uncanny ability to find talented players for his system. The 84 SuperBowl team had 3 rookies starting with a 4th year player. Dwight Hicks and the Hot Licks. I can not think of any other SuperBowl winning team that was able to compete with so many rookies in the secondary.

  41. Oh and I’m just wondering what the folks on here that are bashing th drafting and free agency would do if they were hired to a team with poor play all around and especially the defensive line that gave up more rushing yards than any team in this once proud franchise in year one!

    So you build the o-line first and score a little more but your defense is giving up more points and rushing yards than the year before. I’d bet you’d be pointing fingers as to why they didn’t build the defense first. Where were that supposed to start? Where would you have started? Some act like this team as strong at one side of the ball.
    Idk but I’m betting the o-line last year was better than the defensive side of the ball. Not saying much, but I remember some good moments last year from the o-line. Not so much from the defensive line.
    So if they hit the offensive needs hard this offseason doesn’t it’s still mean they don’t know what they’re doing? Or is it a rebuilding processs that’s going to take some time. This wasn’t the team from a couple
    Of years ago.

  42. 49ers pass catchers dropped five passes last game, raising their league-leading total to 29…………


        1. Haven’t been following the Giants, but is their pass rush weak enough that it might be worth considering having Jimmy G play a few quarters especially if CJ struggles (and of course, assuming Jimmy G has a handle on enough plays).

          1. The teams are going to blitz till JC can show that he can handle the blitz. I think they would do the same to Jimmy G. I am all for playing him but I think it happens after the bye even after the Hawks game maybe.

            Speaking of the blitz Hyde sucks at picking it up. Breida does a better job.

      1. McAdoo looked like a coach to be fired in a couple of months in his presser yesterday. Deion Sanders thought he has lost the locker room. This may be the last chance for the Niners to separate themselves from the Browns.

  43. There isn’t one thing that surprises me about how this season is playing out. This is a multi-year rebuilding process that has just started. This team gains nothing by winning games this year. The Garappolo trade was a smart move, although time will tell how it plays out. The NFC West has two franchise QB’s now, which makes it imperative that the Niners find their own in order to be successful. There isn’t one standout player on this team at the moment but there are some talented players. Shanahan will learn from his mistakes and grow as a coach. Lynch has the ammunition to rebuild, now he has to draft the players. There are no salary cap issues holding them back. They’re in as a good position to rebuild* as they can be in. Even if they succeed, it will take time.

    *In the event of a successful rebuild, Jed will get Jeddy with it and likely screw it up. ?

    1. Big P, we’ve had our differences but this time you are 100% correct.
      The only way this new regime can mess this up is whiffing on their drafts.
      To date, they have not made or chosen any impactful draft picks.

      I’ll wait till next year at this time to say wether they can rebuild this thing or not.

  44. Something that is missing from the Shanny discussion is the Outside Zone. OZ is his bread and butter. KS doesn’t have anyone who can run it effectively. He drafted Williams to be that guy, paired with Hyde running IZ and power runs.

    It shouldn’t be a surprise that Shanny’s offense is struggling without his go to play. And yes, the other ‘excuses’ have some validity. Injuries to our OZ HB, #1 WR, FB, TE, and OL does hurt. The scheme does take some time to learn due to it’s complexity.

    1. “Something that is missing from the Shanny discussion is the Outside Zone. OZ is his bread and butter”

      Grant has said this since the preseason.

      “It shouldn’t be a surprise that Shanny’s offense is struggling”

      You’re right, it shouldn’t. Shanahan has been an OC in the league for 9 years, and in 5 of those his offenses have ranked 21st or worse in points per game.

      What we are seeing here is really nothing new for this guy.

      1. “Grant has said this since the preseason.”

        He said it way earlier than that. KS drafted Williams to address that. Anyone with eyes could see that Williams excelled at OZ and was a perfect fit until he got injured. But we can’t talk about injuries, can we?

        1. Williams wasn’t running the OZ well. His few big gains in the PS came off toss plays.

          1. Shanny would have been sick if he didn’t get him. I imagine he’s still hitting the Pepto-Bismol even though he got him….

        2. The bigger issue though is that it’s hard to get the run game going when you aren’t trying to run the ball.

          Yesterday wasn’t the first time this wasn’t an issue however it was pretty blatant.

          The 49ers had 7 first half possessions prior to their two minute drill. In those 7 possessions he called a total of 8 runs, and those runs were successful netting 4 yards per attempt.

          That’s just not sound football, especially for a team without its best WR, a rookie QB, and the starting TE banged up.

          This is all part of Shanahan’s track record though.

          1. “The bigger issue though is that it’s hard to get the run game going when you aren’t trying to run the ball.”

            I completely agree on that.

  45. Hey Prime, Seb said I have a big ego! This from a guy who’s ego has its own zip code! If I had a buck for every time he uses the letter “I” to talk about himself, I’d be mega rich! This from a guy who weekly tells KS what he should have done, like he actually has a clue. Ego? Are you kidding? If I read his overused phrase “The Niners were “shaped” anymore, I’ll die laughing! Hopefully he can retire his “Football for Dummies” handbook and come up with some new material.

  46. The Niners are going to get the second or third pick. I am hoping some team around 7 or 8 will trade for that pick. Then I would trade that pick to around to pick 15 to 20 for more picks and get Nelson while adding a whole bunch of picks. Lots of positions need filling and trading the first round pick twice would give the Niners a slew of picks. Obviously need trade partners.

    If there is no trade down during the draft, the Niners can draft a safety, Fitzpatrick, and move Ward back to corner. Jump back into the first round and get Nelson. Also Malcum Butler from the Patriots and Traimane Brock from the Rams are FA’s CBs.

    1. 7 or 8 and Nelson might be there, but I would be really surprised if he’s there between 15 to 20. At that point, you’d probably have to settle for C/OG Billy Price. Players like Ward can’t be depended on, because he doesn’t have the body for football. Moving him to corner might help him in that regard, but I mean, the dudes soft. Butler and Brock will command big salaries. The most athletic corner in this draft is probably Isaiah Oliver, Colorado DBU, and that’s who I’d target if you want to move back up into the lower half of this upcoming draft….

      1. I’d only risk a small trade down to get Nelson. Thankfully interior OL tend to be undervalued in the draft, but top 10 picks for the position aren’t unheard of. And Nelson looks a top 5 pick to me.

          1. That’s why the F/A well is often dry. That’s also why if you don’t have an offensive line coach like Dante Scarnecchia, you’re better off investing high picks, if the talent warrants….

            1. Benton? We’re all down on the interior OL, but what’s Benton’s part in this? Can he escape scrutiny here?

              1. are Cable & Carroll better off with their OL “strategy”? SEA OL lookin’ good this year… NOT…
                PFF gives high pass protect marks for Brown and Magnusson, this week Kilgore and Tomlinson were the main turnstyles sunday– Fusco was “passable”–
                yet again though… run blocking was the main dysfunction….

          2. I agree with your second sentence – if you have a shot at a good one take it.

            But I do think good interior OL are still slightly undervalued in the draft. OTs still get the love come draft day.

            1. Understandably. The edge rushers are getting longer, stronger, faster and fiercer.
              O line management will be a key part of testing FO competence.

              1. Thing is, the interior pass rushers are also getting quicker and better to combat the passing games which have evolved to include a lot of quick hitters. Need to get quick pressure, and the shortest path to the QB is from inside. That is why great pass rushing interior DL are in such high demand. And why great interior OL are currently undervalued compared to their OT brethren – they are just as important these days.

              2. Scooter_McG says: “Need to get quick pressure, and the shortest path to the QB is from inside”.

                That’s why Zimmer likes him some Double A gap blitzes;>)

        1. Actually there are quite a few in the top 10 but very few in the top five.

          Only 7 guards have been drafted in the top five since 1966 and never a number one.
          1973 # 4 John Hannah – Patriots
          1974 # 3 John Hicks – Giants
          1975 # 3 Ken Huff – Colts
          1983 # 4 Chris Hinton – Browns
          1985 # 2 Bill Fralic – Falcons
          1996 # 4 Joanathan Ogden – Ravens
          2001 # 2 Leonard Davis – Cardinals

          1. Ogden and Davis were drafted as OTs (even though Davis played OG as a rookie, he was drafted as their future LT). And Ogden played most (all?) of his career at LT. Not sure about the others.

            I think you will find most top 10 OL, even if they ended up playing OG, were initially drafted with an idea of playing OT. Not many interior OL go that early.

              1. Nope. And I would still take him top 5. Like I said, I think interior OL are undervalued in the draft. Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a great pick, would just mean they would be bucking the trend.

  47. Rotoworld:

    49ers WR Trent Taylor is out indefinitely with a broken rib.
    One of the most injured teams in the league, Taylor is just the latest in a long line of issues. Taylor was injured while making a catch late in the first half. Coach Kyle Shanahan is hoping he can play again this season. Taylor has 24 catches for 204 yards and one score across nine games this season.

      1. Per Barrows, “That gives the 49ers a league-leading 23 players who have gone on IR this year.”

        1. Based on what I have learned from the experts at this site, I blame Shanny for the plethora of injuries. Any offensive genius worth his salt should be able to prevent injuries with proper play design. Mind you that I also blame all my woes on climate change, .. or Trump, depending on my mood….

  48. Rotoworld:

    George Kittle – TE – 49ers
    Coach Kyle Shanahan has already ruled out George Kittle (ankle) for Week 10 against the Giants.
    Kittle went down in the first quarter on Sunday against the Cardinals but later returned with a limp following a couple missed possessions. He gutted it out, but now Kittle is week to week. The 49ers also lost TE Cole Hikutini to a knee injury that will send him to I.R. Garrett Celek is now the starter.

  49. Is it worth paying Jimmy Ward $8.5 million next year (cap hit per Spotrac; all of it base salary)? Given his “limited” availability, I don’t think so. Tarrt will have a cap hit of $1.6 million. Maybe bring back Lorenzo Jerome.

    1. You risk losing a very good player whose had bad luck, injury wise.
      Can you bring him back on the cheap?

    2. 100% yes. 49ers have no cap issues. They have so much space under the cap they can afford to overpay players right now. And Ward is still one of their better players. With so many needs the thing they can’t afford is to let their better players go if they don’t have to without committing long term money to them. Keep him one more year.

      1. If you can get him for one year with no long-term contract, maybe. But his injury history is probably not going to get better. Remember, he was out for weeks because he got hurt during a physical conditioning test (I think it’s called something else, just can’t remember). If I had to choose between him and Reid, I’d take Reid. Reid is pretty much available and is now becoming a hybrid player. Isn’t Colbert going to be the FS now with Tarrt out? If he does a good job, then I would let Jimmy move on or negotiate a salary in the $5 million range.

        1. “If you can get him for one year with no long-term contract”

          Of course they can – that’s what the one year option he is on is about. We have him for one more year for $8.5 million. Works for me. If they don’t get a better FS this offseason, keep him there. If they do, move him back to CB and he provide emergency depth at FS. Either way he is a good player and they can afford him, so they should keep him so long as they don’t need to commit to him long term (which they don’t).

          Reid would require a long term commitment to keep. JG is getting the tag, not Reid.

          1. Wasn’t suggesting we tag Reid. I would say the odds are better than 50-50 that Ward winds up making one million per game played in 2018.

            2014 – 8 games played
            2015 -16 games played
            2016 – 11 games played
            2017 – 7 games played

            By comparison, Earl Thomas has played 16 games from 2010 through 2015 (six years). 11 games in 2016 and missed one game so far in 2017.

            1. “Wasn’t suggesting we tag Reid”

              No, so to keep him they need to commit to him long term. Is that something they want to do?

              Yes, Ward will end up getting paid very well per game next year, regardless of how many games he plays. But really not an issue given the cap space they have. When the alternative right now is Colbert, its an easy one – gamble on Ward staying healthy. If they bring someone else in at FS then great, Ward becomes their best (or one of their best) CB and good cover at FS. If he gets injured again, that sucks, but happens.

              1. They won’t tag Jimmy G, that’s a path the 49ers don’t want.
                If they can’t work out a deal with Jimmy G, they need to trade him at the draft or before.

                Ward has not shown enough to warrant another year at 8.5 million. He’s good but not good enough cause he can’t stay healthy.
                If they can, renegotiate that deal.

              2. I hate the idea of spending on a chance just because they have the cap space.
                That’s a bad business model to follow.

              3. If they can’t sign JG long term they will definitely tag him. Its possible they may then trade him, but they would first tag him. And I think it is highly unlikely they would trade him. They brought him here because they think he can be their franchise QB, not to then sell on.

              4. I think they sign him long term but if they can’t, why would they tag him then trade him?
                Would that not handcuff the team they are trading him to?
                Wouldn’t that team want to try and work out a long-term deal with him?

              5. Re: Ward, they don’t have a decent replacement, and they have many needs. Yes, it is just year 2 of a rebuild, but they also don’t want another season of being absolutely terrible. Next year they need to make some positive strides. That means keeping your better players where you are able to, even if you don’t necessarily want to keep them long term. And if you aren’t sure you want to commit to them long term, have them on short term deals like the one Ward will be on.

                If they can convince Ward to take less, even if it means perhaps giving him an extra year, then great. But just getting rid of him without a decent replacement makes no sense to me.

              6. “I think they sign him long term but if they can’t, why would they tag him then trade him?
                Would that not handcuff the team they are trading him to?
                Wouldn’t that team want to try and work out a long-term deal with him?”

                No, there is a period after being tagged where the team with his rights is able to still negotiate a long term deal. So someone could trade for him and work out a long term deal.

              7. Prime: You said to trade Jimmy G at the draft. But if they don’t come to a contract agreement, isn’t he a free agent well before then? I’m not sure but I would think the 49ers have until the first day of 2018 free agency to try and negotiate a deal before he becomes available to others? Also, after a google search, I wasn’t able to find out if there is a window within which the franchise tag must be used.

            2. Ok thanks for the explanation guys. It would make no sense to tag him then trade him if that’s a possible rule in the NFL.

        2. Just to be clear I’m not suggesting that Reid should play FS, more like Tarrt and hopefully Colbert.

      2. I would like the FS position to be settled. Ward just keeps getting hurt. I don’t see Ward as a long term solution there. Having him play there for half a season would take reps away from whoever replaces him. It would keep us from addressing the position in the off season. Plus, we have FS/SS flexibility with Tartt, and Colbert and Jerome are possibilities.

        1. I think Jimmy Ward is good – just can’t stay healthy (also, I admit to having a problem when guys get hurt during a conditioning test and sidelined for months). The question is: is he good value for a team that is rebuilding?

  50. http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/111327-transcript-shanahan-gives-update-49ers-growing-injury-list/

    Does Bourne give you a different dimension because he’s the tallest in that receiving room, especially with Pierre out now?

    “Yes. You want your guys to have different attributes. You’d like some guys with speed. You’d like some quick guys who can separate. You’d like big guys with good hands. You’d love to have different attributes for all your receivers. I feel like that’s when the offense is the best. When all your guys are the same, you become a little more one dimensional with what you can do. That’s when you start to use running backs, tight ends and different things.”

    KS says “You’d like big guys with good hands.” Contrary to what some people think, Alshon Jeffrey would be a fit in this offense. We considered signing him for a reason.

  51. You and especially you Cohn YOU CAN’T PASS OR RUN WITHOUT A OFFENSIVE LINE. Cohn how long have you been in the sports writing business. Maybe you have a concussion. In addition 23 players on injured reserve. You amaze me Mr. Cohn why don’t you write for a food column maybe you would get that correct.

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