Time for some 49ers to step aside so foundation of future can develop

San Francisco 49ers wide receiver Pierre Garcon looks to make a reception during the second half of an NFL football game against the Minnesota Vikings, Sunday, Sept. 9, 2018, in Minneapolis. (AP Photo/Bruce Kluckhohn)

The 49ers don’t know it, but they lucked out.

They think they’re unlucky, because injuries ruined their chances to make the playoffs. Now, be honest, they probably won’t win more than four games.

But that’s OK. They probably wouldn’t have made the playoffs anyway, even if Jimmy Garoppolo and Jerick McKinnon had stayed healthy and played like Pro Bowl performers. The rest of the roster just isn’t good enough. The 49ers are rebuilding.

Now, they can focus on rebuilding, which should have been their focus all along. In a way, all these bad breaks have been good for the 49ers. This season still can be positive. They can set themselves up to be even better next season, better than if they had fruitlessly pursued a playoff spot. Now, they can really build a team that can really win in 2019.

Now, they can evaluate their young players. Develop ones who will be around the next three seasons. Build a foundation, so there’s hope for the future. So Garoppolo doesn’t have to be the savior when he returns from his torn ACL. That’s too much pressure on a young quarterback.

In order to evaluate the young players, certain established ones must step aside. Their time is up.

Here’s who they are.

This article has 452 Comments

    1. Trade Staley to somewhere he wants to go- out of respect to what he has done for the 49ers……… not sure what his family situation is (kids in school, etc) which may factor into if he wants to go somewhere for two years +/-.

      1. I don’t know if Staley would want to go anywhere at all. He was going to retire but then got enthused by the direction this team was going. I don’t know if they would even want to shift McG to the left side. He is a far better run blocker than a pass protector and probably always will be so. I seems they run far more to the right than they do to the left so it would be best to keep their best run blocker on the right. They might settle for a tackle who is better at pass protection but still good enough to run block in this system to replace Staley. I think in Shanahan’s system having a good run blocker at RT is as important as a good pass blocking LT. Which is why I think he drafted McG. He never expected to move him to LT.

        1. Dillard outta Washington State might be there at the top of the 2nd round, and has LT potential in the NFL. He’s athletic, he’s got length and he’s fast enough to compete against speed rushers….

    2. I agree with Grant: This season is over. The playoffs were never a possibility even before the major injuries. Let us see our young talent play and develop. We need to find out what we have and what we need going into the draft. There is a real question about Lynch and Kyle’s ability to spot talent and to develop it. Kyle has maybe the 2019 season to save his job. He has been far from impressive so far.

    3. We still do not know if Garnett can play. He was a bust as a first-round choice but he still could be above average as a guard. We just do not know as he cannot stay healthy.

    1. Anyone not completely stone blind would see that the season is lost, and that they could very well not win another game. So really doesn’t matter what message they’d be sending…outcome would be exactly the same.

            1. I want to see Richie James and Kendrick Bourne get targets Monday Night. I want to see Jullian Taylor rush the quarterback next to Buckner. I want to see McGlinchey at left tackle. I want to see Tarvarius Moore play cornerback.

              1. Yep

                And possibly consider offers for Sherman if he was willing to move considering that he may have the potential to bring in a high pick based upon his current level of play- KC, CIN, PHI all might be interested……… maybe for a 3rd?

    2. Football Outsiders (I know, their stupid) has the 49ers rated as the number one contender for the first pick in next years draft so it’s no secret the 49ers are not going to win much this yaer. Staley says he just wants to win. Ain’t gonna happen where he is, and it probably won’t happen next year. Good thing Kyle and John have 5 year contracts because it’s going to take all of that to start winning again.

    3. I thought that the sloppiness displayed in camp bespoke real problems for the season. That was also true in 2017. Kyle has failed to instill discipline. The locker room is jolly and the men get along. That is not enough to pay for a game ticket. The bottom line is results and Kyle/Lynch has not delivered. As for Staley, he has been a disappointment the past 2 years or so. Any chance we could trade him before the end of this year to jettison his huge contract? We will need better FA’s next season combined with an excellent draft. We have not had a great draft in years.

  1. 2. Celek’s time has ran out. I remember touting Dwelley when we signed him.

    “If the 49ers see McGlinchey as their left tackle of the future, they should move him there now, and move Staley to the right.”

    It’s been 5 games, no need to rush to judgement on McG good or bad. As of now, he’s been inconsistent at pass blocking, Don’t want CJ to get killed from the blind side, especially with his poor pocket awareness.

    4. If Person continues to play well, he should continue to start and he should get a reasonable extension. This would be good for continuity. Garnett will get some reps filling in at G and C. Start Garnett if he earns it. If both play well, then great, we have depth at G.

    5. Thomas is a guy that we need to see more of. His grade as an interior rusher is incomplete.

    1. Generally agree with all your points. However, I think McGlinchey will grow into a Pro Bowl tackle.
      Celek is a decent third string TE. He’s been given starter-level minutes in many games in the past and that’s when he gets inconsistent. The problem is that when Shanalynch arrived, most of the players, including starters, were not NFL-quality. In the first year, they replaced many of these starters with NFL-level backups. Now they are systematically going about replacing the backup-quality players in starter role with solid starters and playmakers. That takes time. The first priorities have been QB and linemen, although edge rusher is missing. However, a impact edge rusher is even more rare than a franchise QB :( Patience is needed!

      1. “However, I think McGlinchey will grow into a Pro Bowl tackle.”

        I think so too. But I haven’t seen enough consistency in pass protection to justify moving him to LT at this time. You also risk irking a veteran in Staley.

        1. As I said in a previous post, they might never have planned to move him there It seems to me that this offense runs a lot more to the right than they do to the left. That is where most of their large gains originated. Having a good run blocking RT might be as important to this system as a good pass protection on the left. Which is why they got rid of Brown. We all notice how much better the run game has been this season and most of the big gains have come to the right. Now why move a really good run blocking tackle from an important position were the excels to a positions that values something he is not as good at.

          I don’t know if they ever planned on moving him away from RT. They can try to replace Staley with a tackle who is better at pass protection than run blocking. They picked McG specifically for RT. That is an example putting a player where his skill level is optimized. Ideally, he fits the system at RT.

      2. Mood….

        For what its worth, I think you are absolutely right. This team probably had less talent than the Walsh team of ’79. Then, the upgrades got decimated with injuries-notwithstanding the fact that they themselves needed development time!
        True enough, Shannylynch need to install the basic talents better~like tackling, off-sides, catching the football consistently at this level…………..but all things considered, I see a bright future.
        Not sure about our D coordinator, tho………….seems to me that front 7 of ours should be a bit more dynamic…..just seems an element or two are missing, even more than our need for a big-time pass rusher……….cant entirely put my finger on it-like were less than the sum of our total……………..

  2. I disagree that we don’t know yet about Garnett and Armstead. Both on their best days are inconsistent. Usually they’re below average. No sense spending anymore time on either of them.

    1. I’m with you. Also suspect the arrow is up on Person. He’s never been a starting guard and is taking advantage of it. Yes he’s 30 but we can see it’s hard to find good olinemen effective at OSZ. He’s also good in pass protection. He’s the kind of player John Madden would talk up.

        1. Willtalk

          Sadly, I agree…Garnett is a sissy…’will not play hurt, and hasn’t shown that he can move that lard butt to pull…

  3. Grant last week I said the rest of the season would be a glorified training camp snd you called me a moron and then you write this

      1. As soon as Jimmy G went down and C.J. Beathard became the starter, the season ended that very moment. Did no one learn anything from Beathards season last year, I sure did

        1. Spot on! You didn’t “jump the gun”, it’s called “foresight”. I agree that as soon as Garoppolo went down, the season was over. I thought that 9-10 wins was possible, but there are still too many holes on the defense. Minnesota and KC showed that.

          1. Grant saying he jumped the gun is rather silly, because he, himself, does that all the time. He certainly makes sure to take credit when it pans out. That is basically what everyone does on this forum. We speculate.

              1. Hah. This ain’t 2005. It’s a QB driven league now Grant.

                But you know that!

                I’d love to see your boy Hoyer take over for an injured Brady for starters, and then watch Edelman, White and Chung get hurt.

                Belichick would probably retire before the end of this season.

              2. BTW, how did the Packers look after Rodgers went down last year?

                We’re they still in it? No.

                Do you think the RAMS are going to the Super Bowl if Mannon were forced to start after week 3?

                How about the Seahawks minus Wilson and Carson? The Saints without Brees and Kamara? The Steelers without big Ben and AB? The Chiefs without Mahomes and Hunt?

                The list goes on and on and on …..

              3. Hah, you mean if their backup QB wasn’t a turnover machine, and they hadn’t lost their last good RB, and weren’t without their #1 WR?

                If you want to blame Shanahan for not drafting a better backup QB, have at it. If you want to blame Shanahan for all of the injuries, have at it. If you want to blame them for drafting Thomas, I’m right there with you.

                But let’s stop pretending this is a team who’s capable of winning without a good QB! Did you even watch last season?

                This team is in the early stages of year 2 of a TOTAL REBUILD. Having a healthy Garoppolo was critical to any success they may have had this year.

                I KNOW YOU HAVE TO KNOW THIS GRANT! So why are you pretending otherwise?

                You even said as much during training camp, didn’t you? If my memory serves me correctly, you were not the least bit impressed with Beathard during camp, right? You more or less questioned if he was even 2nd string material.

              4. Grant Cohn thinks it’s a coach driven league. The truth is, it’s a talent driven league.

                Why are the Browns competitive this year? It’s because the Browns have talent this year. Hue Jackson is not a better coach this year. He just has way better talent. Kyle Shanahan isn’t a worse coach this year. He just lost all his top end talent at some very important positions.

  4. Sorry, but I disagree about Staley, Sherman, Person and Thomas.
    .
    Staley plays as long as he can. After the season should be the time to speculate.
    .
    Sherman is all in with the Niners, and maybe later will a team need a CB for the playoffs. However, I do agree about Tarvarius Moore. He should replace Witherspoon.
    .
    Person is versatile, and has performed way better than Fusco. Garnett gives good depth, but he is also will have a future with the Niners. Until Person falters, it is his job to lose.
    .
    Thomas is still young, and they have not utilized him properly. I hope he is a Niner for 10 years.

    1. Just view this year as an extended summer camp. I agree with Grant that we need to play our youth to see who can play. Or even wants to.

    2. I think your right, Seb-skov–I dont think they have utilized Thomas correctly. But I also think no way was he worthy of a 3rd pick in the draft——-was he that spectacular at Stanford all year long that he rated a 3rd?? Im thinking, no.

      1. Saw, if you can recall my mocks, I had proposed trading back twice to accumulate picks, and the first round player in my last mock before the draft was Malik, Hooker.
        .
        Maybe Thomas needs to be traded to another team that can utilize him properly, before he can thrive in the league.

        1. Sebs……….

          U may be right. I just hate to give up on a guy that quickly, especially a 3rd pick that I’m not convinced their using right.

          Seems this front 7 plays less than the sum of their parts………….not sure why, but I think it’s a bit more complicated than securing another Haley………hope I’m wrong.

  5. They absolutely should not do this. If guys aren’t performing, sure, give other guys a chance. But just thrusting young guys in ahead of vets that are better is a bad idea. It sends an awful message to the players just five weeks into the season, and it will simply compound issues of inconsistency and poor play. Can’t evaluate talent when the whole team is overmatched, and young players will get ruined if they are thrown to the wolves without help from vets.

    What they should do is start getting some of these young players some snaps. Which they already are for the most part anyway.

      1. Yup. there is something to be said about retaining veteran leadership.
        .
        All rookie teams do not fare too well. The veterans at least make them competitive.

            1. Gee Sebbie… You gave up really quick. You would have fought viciously with anyone who posted last night “The season is over, Seb.” But not Grant. Grant says it and you immediately acquiesce. Way cool!

    1. Please provide examples of young players who were “ruined” because they played and learned and gained experience.

      1. It happens all the time. The Browns did it for years. But people only blame the failures of young players on the players themselves not being good enough. Not that they didn’t get the right support around them to help them succeed.

        What you are talking about isn’t just about getting young guys playing. It is about putting young guys in ahead of established vets that are still performing. Some of these players the 49ers are hoping will continue to be starters next year – Staley, Sherman, Thomas (that one in particular is funny as he has been getting less snaps than Armstead at DT until this week anyway), Person. Potentially Garcon, though I suspect they will release him at the end of the year.

        If you take Garcon and Goodwin (due to injury) out, you give Beathard an even worse chance to successfully move the offense and increase his chances of turning the ball over. If you put a worse option at OG than Person out there and switch the OTs into positions they didn’t spend the offseason training at you do the same. That leads to more ball for the opposition, which increases the pressure on the D. If you’ve gotten rid of your best CB that just makes it harder for the D to perform well.

        In the end if you get rid of all your best players, or move them out of their best spots, you end up not being able to evaluate your talent fairly anyway.

        The best thing the team can do is keep putting its best players on the field and get the young guys some opportunities in spurts as opportunities arise. If they demonstrate in those opportunities they deserve more, then give them more.

          1. Why? Either you believe it to be true or you don’t. You clearly don’t believe it to be an issue. Any example I give you you can simply say it was because the player was not that good.

              1. I do? Dang, there goes 99% of the comments on this blog then!

                Take away that one sentence from my argument, and the rest holds on its own. I personally am of the belief that putting young players in positions where they are constantly exposed and don’t have adequate support around them is not generally that beneficial to their progress.

              2. Scooter’s proposal is the correct way to go. You can’t just completely blow things up at this point in time – but do try to get the young guys playing time.

              3. Moving Staley to right tackle isn’t blowing things up. Benching Garcon isn’t blowing things up. He is playing poorly and has no future with this team.

              4. Per PFF: After a rocky start, rookie right tackle Mike McGlinchey has bounced back and is currently the highest-graded player along the 49ers’ front. He’s only allowed three hurries over the past couple weeks, and his ability in the run game has translated immediately from college to pro. McGlinchey is the highest-graded run-blocking tackle in the league currently.

              5. “Benching Garcon isn’t blowing things up. He is playing poorly and has no future with this team.”

                I don’t get the desire to see what Bourne has. He’s gotten quite a few snaps over the back end of last season and early part of this season and I just don’t see a guy that has the traits to be anything more than a depth player. Besides, what he is getting now (averaging about 20 snaps a game this season and over 40% of offensive snaps the past two games) is plenty enough for a young player to develop. He gets good game experience without being relied on as a key playmaker. If he shows in those snaps that he is outperforming Garcon, sure, bench Garcon. So far that hasn’t happened.

              6. Bourne is outperforming Garcon.

                Bourne: 2 TD catches, 60% catch rate.

                Garcon: 0 TD catches, 48.5% catch rate.

              7. All McGlinchey did was perform. He has no control over the NFL opponent he’s tasked with eliminating. He’ll be ready for Mack daddy at the end of the year….

              8. He graded out as our highest rated offensive lineman in that game with a 68. The Glinch will attempt to take Mack Daddies Christmas presents….

          2. Grant

            Jimmy Ward is speedy, but cannot defend tall WRs or TEs and is too fragile to depend on; Solomon Thomas is too short and too easily handled by OTs and even TEs…it takes MORE than a good motor , third string at best: Garret Celek has the size and blocking ability, but no longer dependable hands; both Wick and Dewelley deserve more chances, KIittle needs a second TE for blocking and receiving help; some of these guys still have some trade value, but if it’s only for Social Security, we need their lockers….but this is at least a start…

      2. The best examples are QBs. AS was thrown to the wolves, and regressed. He would have profited from getting the Aaron Rodgers treatment, and had been allowed to sit and study for a couple years.
        .
        I am not a fan of drafting WRs high in the draft, because they tend to become injured. Just like Pettis.

        1. Yes, but I didn’t mention QBs in my column. Position players don’t get better by sitting on the bench. Red-shirting rookies is a bad idea for many reasons.

      3. Alex Smith should have sat longer, and then Nolan gave him crap after Smith was misdiagnosed with what was actually a severe shoulder injury. His college coach cautioned before the draft that Smith would take longer to learn the system.

          1. That’s where the rush shows up most distinctively. However, the principle still holds. Cornerbacks can also show that. Witherspoon is an example of that but there have been others.

              1. He needs to learn basic football still and would benefit from not losing confidence. But I get where you’re coming from. You say throw them in the deep end of the pool. Curiously, you didn’t advocate that for Garoppolo last year.

              2. Grant

                I agree wholeheartedly about Witherspoon…now let’s start integrating Tavarius Moore and Harris into the D backfield and raid some other teams PS for at least one more TALL CB…

              3. Grant:

                How about Colbert as an example? Eric Reid is gone and Colbert is playing poorly. Is Colbert playing poorly because Reid is gone?

  6. I want to vomit every time I look at Saleh. I can’t stand this outcast Seahawk wannabe defense we run. Absolutely hate Cassius Marsh. Cool name, cool tatoos, cool headband but dude can’t put the QB on the grass. Malcolm Smith was never good and has not played at all, terrible signing. Brock Coyle is respectable but not mcuh more then a special teams guy. I still hate Sherman from ‘13.

    I would agree with getting rid of Celek, Persons, Garcon and Sherman although I am not sure Sherman is really tradeable. The believe that Staley can still hold down the fort at LT. Whitworth and Peters are two older LT’s and they play at a high level.

    Too much hype this year for us. Guys like Witherspoon, Thomas, and Colbert are just simply not that good.

        1. Just contradicting what he said. I, too, think Marsh is mediocre, but he did get a sack, so he did put a QB on the grass.
          .
          Instead of Marsh, they should play Solomon Thomas at that position, then maybe ST would get more sacks.

          1. Seb

            Suck eggs…!!
            You are one of the problems…You want to keep trying to find a spot for Thomas when experience has shown that his best position is on the bench…if even that…Armstead, Buckner, Blair, Day, Street, Jullian Taylor, Marsh, Foster, Brock Coyle, Smith, D.J. Jones, Mitchell, etc…the Defensive middle of the field is well stocked, now, let’s get some tall WRs,….we’re not that bad off….

            1. Ore, Suck eggs? You need to chill. Take it easy. Throwing out insults make you sound like Prime.
              .
              Donte Whitner was on KNBR, and he said the problem was that Thomas is better in the 3-4 system. He compared Thomas to Ahmad Brooks.
              .
              Sure sounds like they are not utilizing him to his maximum potential. Saleh is not going to change his system to fit his player, so he will be playing Thomas out of position.
              .
              Maybe they should trade him to a team that runs the 3-4, that just had a starter go down due to injury. Make it a conditional pick, so if Thomas does perform well, the Niners get a better draft pick. If not then maybe a 4th or 5th round pick for him. If he does well, maybe a second or third round pick.
              .
              FYI, Brock Coyle is on IR.
              .
              I agree, I wanted them to get tall WRs, too. Then, maybe they will have a better red zone target.
              .
              We are not that bad off? Blah blah blah blah blah.

              1. Seb

                I don’t believe that Whitner compared Thomas to Ahmad Brooks; he was comparing the 3-4 to the 4-3..Two monthes ago I claimed that I thought that Thomas could be a quality player…in another team with another system. I hope that you will stop picking arguments and get serious about the present discussion. I was wrong…we will not get to the playoffs this year.. but who could have foreseen the injuries we’ve had…?
                I’m weighing in with Grant on this one…there are probably 10-15 veterans that we can afford to ‘lose’ and still maintain a strong cadre of veteran presence for leadership…

              2. Ore, just listen to his interview with Gary and Larry. Whitner specifically says that Thomas reminds him of Ahmad Brooks.
                .
                Sure, if you want the Niners to tank for a good draft position, getting rid of the Vets makes sense. However, if you want the Niners to be competitive, retaining the vets should be a priority.
                .
                Picking arguments? I just corrected the poster, and did not think more needed to be said.

  7. Let’s end this sugar coating exercise right now. The season is over and Solo Thomas is a bust. Those 2 things are real!

  8. Of all the obtuse articles Grant cooks up on a regular basis, this one of the most obtuse ones yet :) The team is in the midst of a catastrophic injury-riddled season. So cut, trade, or sit all the well-performing vets. Throw green and almost-green rookies and second-year players all by themselves into certain losses so their confidence is completely shot! Brilliant! Sheer genius!

    This attitude further roils the negative sentiments of the depressed fan base here into an even more nihilistic frame of mind — and Emperor Nero Grant fiddles while Rome burns :)

    The Niners should and will stay the course, continue developing Beathard into a viable backup. He has shown improvement as a QB. He will never be able to scan the field and process information as fast as a starter needs to, but he will improve in basic areas such as moving up into the pocket and playing with the mental clock in mind.

    Kyle’s system is “complex” because he not only expects all players his offense to understand not only the variations of each play in his playbook but also how his game planning is predicated on the expected defense they will face for the look they give. It takes at least two seasons before the players “get it”. Beathard admitted in his interview to KNBR that were several times last season where he came out of the huddle without having an idea about the play he was expected to execute. He says things are much better this season. Of course, there are still flaws in his execution, but this is a career backup who has started just over half-a-dozen games.

    Bandwagon fans will slowly roll back once Niners start winning next season. Till then we have to suffer thru such novel hypotheses that somehow Jed York is responsible for the injury onslaught

    1. Last year it was one year, this year it is two. Anyone going for theee years to learn such a “complex” offense?

      1. Actually, many NFL coaches do think it takes 3 years to master Kyle’s offense! See my comment below and the link to the Greg Cosell interview! Sorry to bring you the bad news!

    2. Name some young non-QBs whose development was stunted because they played football.

      Also, at least two years, huh? I think you’re confused.

      1. It’s not always possible to measure stunted growth because the stunted growth is not apparent to outsiders as it is to the coaches. The median career of a NFL player is under 5 years,, and it is made even shorter by poor coaching and handling of the maturation process. Once could make a case that several players in the Browns, Colts, Bills and Niners could have developed better if there growth process had been handled better.

        It’s important to have veteran leadership on the field when the majority of the starters are inexperienced. Potential mistakes and wrong tendencies can be checked in the huddle by having the vets remind a rookie what the latter had learned in the classroom or an error they had made earlier that should not be repeated. Else you have inexperienced players pointing fingers at each other after a blown coverage. “Let’s play all the kids to see what they’ve got” approach to tanking a season leads to a “loser culture” taking hold in the locker. The coach gets fired and a new coach brings a new system and new things to learn.

        Just last week, the injured Staley came into the weight room at 5 am to get ready for the Cardinals game, and the rest of the O line followed him. These veterans leaders are important. Ronnie Lott pointed out that the vets are the ones who should be critiquing and correcting shoddy tackling by the young players.

        > Also, at least two years, huh? I think you’re confused.
        If you say so.

          1. You want a name? Okay here’s one: Phillip Dorsett. I think that Pagano’s Colts threw him into the mix before he had time to learn the offense adequately which also saw a midseason change in OC. As a result he did not meet expectations and he was traded to the Patriots where he’s played for the last two seasons. Now let’s see how you disprove my claim!

            Regarding it taking two years to properly “get” Kyle’s offense, apparently many coaches think it takes three seasons to really master the offense. Listen to Greg Cosell for a minute starting at 4:55 mark.
            https://omny.fm/shows/tolbert-lund/10-3-greg-cosell-on-why-cj-beathards-performance-w

            1. Dorsett is having a decent season. Playing football young didn’t stunt his growth or “ruin” him.

              Greg Cosell has no clue. Players in the league say it takes one year.

              1. Sure, Dorsett is having a decent season with the Pats. His game was developing rapidly at Miami and then he underperformed with the Colts because, as I assert, he was played by the Colts before he had learned the playbook is sufficiently. I recall him running wrong routes leading to interceptions from Luck. I can’t prove that I am right, and you can’t prove I am wrong, either !!

                “Greg Cosell has no clue. ”
                Love it– bulletin board material that I will pass on to the KNBR guys to discuss :)
                Surely you heard that Cosell was not giving his opinion on this — he was quoting other NFL coaches.

              2. The 49ers and Falcons players all have talked about this. They said one year.

                Dorsett played and learned from his mistakes.

      2. Name some young non-QBs whose development was stunted because they played football.

        Solomon Thomas? Arik Armstead? We’ve seen them play, have we seen them develop?

          1. My response was firmly tongue in cheek. But where does one draw the line between needing time to develop and not having sufficient NFL-worthy talent to develop?

      3. Alex Smith. That guy had Nolan, then Single-yard teaching him the QB position. Millionaire or no, I actually felt sorry for that guy when he was here.

  9. I’m sitting here thinking about the likelihood of being rid of Saleh at the end of the season and I quickly realize that if Lynch and Shanny continue to piss away drafts it really wont matter who the coordinators/coaches are.

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    Seems like all we’ve done is higher a less neurotic version of Baalke.

    1. I’m thinking you may be right…

      In terms of impact players it’s not looking good. Aside from the TE the team hasn’t produced anyone of distinction yet.

        1. If that was the case I’d still be apologizing to the fans for Mettenberger. And good God don’t ever let me draft a receiver. I’m not sure I’ve ever picked a good one. ;)

    2. It’s fair to say they blew the first pick in their first draft with Thomas. He’s a solid player but is more 3rd round talent than first. Joe Williams didn’t work out so that was a wasted 4th round pick. Other than those two examples however, I don’t see how they pissed two drafts away. They’ve put together a talented LB core and have added a future LT who is getting better each game. They drafted a TE in the 5th round who is playing like a second round talent at worst. There’s also the fact that we haven’t seen enough of these guys to make a determination one way or the other. I think some of the statements on here are reaching a new level of hyperbole.

      1. Agree pretty much. However, my biggest disappointment this year is Trent Taylor. What’s your take on his lack of production this year.

        1. Tough to say cubus, but might have something to do with his injury. Maybe he still isn’t 100% but good enough to be active. Back injuries can be tricky. Could also be a case of not having had a lot of time to work with JG or CJ in camp. Whatever the case I agree with you. We need to see more out of him.

          1. So what’s your take on Witherspoon or Pettis? Should the team not have explored other options in the case of Pettis?

            Look I love K. Street, but this team needs players now who can contribute and should be very careful with reaches.

            1. Jury is still out on both. I wanted them to take Landry and others instead of Pettis but it’s 5 games into year one. Pettis could wind up being a great player. Way too soon to draw a conclusion. Same with Spoon. Some good some bad but he’s a young developing player.

              1. The thing is Rocket, that I’m not evaluating the players so much as the picks. Pettis in particular seemed like a superfluous pick. There were greater needs in other areas.

                I liked Landry too but that is what I mean about wasted picks. They could be good but there were others who were likely to have greater impact.

                Shanahan in this way reminds me of Chip Kelly. He’s the smartest guy in the room and he doesnt mind showing it. Granted, KS appears more humble but his actions on the field and in the FO display an amount of hubris that is at least something to keep an eye on. It may be a fatal flaw.

                He seems like a great XOs guy who doesn’t yet have a strong strategic tenor. And to those of us watching this we keep thinking—he has 6 years! What if he is not up to task. How far back will it set the franchise? He and JL and a bunch of coaches are essentially rookies. A lot of missteps can occur along the way. And they seem to be happening.

                To my mind Jed wanted to look like this time he meant business (as opposed to all the other times the York family has stepped in it). But the amount of tone deafness is still there. Stadium? We will build one that is better and our way! Coaches, we will put in our own guys (Tomsula) and they’ll be fine, no wait…Chip Kelly is a great coach and we will go that way…or….Game plan? We will do the game plan my way, come hell or high water! I don’t like the trends with this team! I’m hopeful, but not optimistic!

                And the execution is part of the coaches. If players don’t execute it is up to the coaches to do something about it! They can bench players or trade for those who will do the job. Regarding injuries, this can only be somewhat of an excuse. Tomsula lost lots of players his only year and yet he didn’t put on the display the team did this past week.

                I know it is year two and I’m willing to wait 2 more years, but I do not see this team heading in a good direction. I kept largely quiet during TC because it seemed like almost everyone wasn’t wanting to hear alternative views (thin roster- “players they have are fine”, Shanny said so — to now “injuries are killing this team”). Yeah, but we could have done more to prepare! We could have picked other players (Landry in one instance, Watt in the other), oh no! “We have a decent pass rush!” Well, the defense can’t really put decent pressure to help the DBs. When games are close, this matters! “We could have won that game if…” What a great roster we have, except that we Don’t really. Our best player was a gift from Foxboro! Two years and our picks are let’s wait and see how they do. Unacceptable, given what this team needs. If we wanted projects we could have stayed with Baalke.

                I’m not a Shanahan enemy or a JL one either. I like them both but I want them to do better than they are doing rather than simply going with the excuse of the day.

              2. EC,

                I agree with you on the picks. I didn’t like them either. My point is what we don’t like doesn’t always make us right. We have to give it time and see if the team made the right decision. We don’t really have a choice, but it’s the best course of action regardless.

                I really couldn’t disagree more with your take on Shanahan though. What you said here is not what I see at all. Grant wrote something like this and a lot of people agreed with him but I don’t. Shanahan is a pretty humble guy. He doesn’t act like the smartest guy in the room and he doesn’t Coach like that either. Some on here have criticized the play calling and at times justifiably so, but for the most part his play calling has worked. The team has moved the ball regardless of who is on the field. Would I like to see more success in the RZ? Absolutely, but I also understand we are playing with a backup QB, backup RB’s, no Goodwin or Pettis at the moment and these are major factors.

                Jed hired Shanahan because he was one of the hottest Coaches on the market. He had to give him a 6 year deal because of the way he had botched previous hiring and firings. He had to reboot the perception of the team and I think he did that. What remains to be seen is whether they have the right people in place to achieve long term success. I believe in Shanahan the HC, but am leery of he and Lynch being in charge of the draft. Shanahan should have a say obviously, but I’d like to see somebody with more personnel experience being the co decision maker rather than Lynch. Lynch is a great representative of the franchise, but he’s never been a personnel guy and it shows.

                I addressed the Coaches part in the execution on the field down below in another post, but to make a long story short, Coaches don’t play. If a player is Coached to do something and has a brain cramp in the heat of the moment, that’s on the player. The Niners have turned the ball over 11 times in 5 games. 8 of them came in two games. JG threw 3 picks against the Vikes in game 1 and Beathard and Mostart were responsible for 5 TO’s combined on Sunday. There is reasons behind some of them and just flat out poor play on others, but what should be clear is this is not a team going out and turning the ball over carelessly week after week and the TO’s are limited to a small group of players. That doesn’t scream undisciplined to me.

                At the end of the day we are in week 6 of year 2 with a first time HC who is trying to duct tape a roster decimated by injury. It sucks and makes it hard to have optimism week after week, but I look at it as building some character and learning how to compete regardless of who is on the field. This is going to be a tough season, but it could help them in the long run.

              3. Rocket,

                See your POV and on some points, I think we are closer than further away. I still think that KS displays hubris or stubbornness on some play call scenarios but I’m willing to wait and see how things shake out. Hope he fixes game calls and RZ issues and instills some discipline to his team.

                Still think the Yorks are a big pile of stinking manure.

      2. “They’ve put together a talented LB core”

        If either Foster or Warner were to miss games the defense would be fine.

        A first and third round pick that don’t make the defense better than their 2 journeymen backups.

        Agree that McGlinchey and Kittle were good picks. The rest are just roster fillers who don’t have the ability to make plays.

        1. I disagree with that. Over a significant period of time the difference in play would be night and day. Foster and Warner are really good young players who will be even better when other parts of the defense are upgraded.

          The fact you’ve been able to conclude the rest of the young players are roster fillers when they’ve hardly played is impressive. Personally I’ll wait awhile before passing judgment.

          1. Over a significant amount of time? The D played multiple games last year without Foster with no drop off.

            “The fact you’ve been able to conclude the rest of the young players are roster fillers when they’ve hardly played is impressive.”

            Funny because last week you were writing about how many of them are playing big roles on the team. Now this week it’s that they’ve hardly played. Which is it?

            1. I’ll have to go back and look, but from what I recall they were a better defense with Foster than without. I’d also be interested to see the numbers for PFF on how each of them played.

              Funny because last week you were writing about how many of them are playing big roles on the team. Now this week it’s that they’ve hardly played. Which is it?

              There is nothing contradictory here. They are just starting to play a bigger role and most of the players you are referring to have been pros for a year or less. If you can determine they are filler in this short period of time, I tip my cap to you.

        2. I praised(even defended) the McGlinchey pick when it was made. At this point he’s far and away the best selection they’ve made. Looks to have the makings of a solid NFL right tackle and that’s absolutely worth the #9 pick so he’s good draft value. If he makes a successful transition to left tackle then he’ll be a great pick.

          I don’t mean to sound like I’m poo-pooing the Kittle selection, I love the value of taking him @#146. I’m just not sure how hard it is to find good tight ends these days. Is Kittle special? I don’t know, I guess he might be at some point but so far he’s just been good. Good value on his selection but I’m glad we didn’t take him much higher then we did.

          I thought Joe Williams had the potential to be something special. He could have been one of their best picks. I’m not going to consider where he was taken because he was only available there because of the character red flags. Which unfortunately turned out to be true. Had he not quit football he would have been a potential first to early second round pick and I really doubt we would have gone after him there.

          If Joe Williams hadn’t been drafted OR if his head had turned out to be right then I’d give them more of a pass on Reuben Foster. Every team eventually swings and misses on a player like Foster. However Foster is not the only player that the team has missed on because of off-field/character red flags. I’m not sure if it’s arrogance that they thought they could change the individuals or simply bad judgement but it doesn’t bode well for the future development of this team if they continue to make these kinds of selections.

          As you mention, the rest of the players appear to be just bodies. No real play makers which is what teams need to elevate them above the flotsam and jetsam that is floating around most NFL rosters these days.

          1. “Kittle put together some decent numbers his rookie season, catching 43 passes for 515 yards and two touchdowns while working through an assortment of bumps and bruises. Through five games this season, he has caught 23 passes for 399 yards — putting him on pace for 73 receptions, 1,276 receiving yards, and three touchdowns.

            Among tight ends, Kittle currently ranks fifth in receptions, third in yards, and second in yards per reception among tight ends with at least ten receptions. Football Outsiders currently ranks him fourth among tight ends in DYAR and 11th in DVOA. A higher DYAR means more total value, while a higher DVOA means more value per play. Over at Pro Football Focus, Kittle is tied for second among tight ends in yards per route run, and is listed with one drop on the season.

            The tight end position is fairly AFC heavy. In terms of receiving yards, Zach Ertz tops the list and Kittle is third, but the remaining five in the top seven are AFC tight ends. The next NFC tight ends are Jimmy Graham (8th), Kyle Rudolph (9th), and O.J. Howard (10th).”

            https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/10/11/17964484/george-kittle-stats-pro-bowl-2018

      3. It’s a combination of over drafting players and not addressing positions of need. If you’re going to ignore certain holes then your margin of error on the players selected instead is pretty much zero. They have to be players that can make up for the positions that you are leaving exposed. None of the selections they’ve made when they’ve have chosen to not address key holes have been these types of players.

        How many of these selections appear to be second contract type players? How many of them will still be on this team in 3-4 years? Not many from my point of view.

        1. I was leading the charge in the offseason regarding the failure to address positions of need and most didn’t like that very much and proceeded to inform me that there weren’t any good options at positions of need. Obviously not doing more to improve the Edge depth chart is biting them in a$$ big time, but surprisingly the OL has been playing fairly well which was the other area of need singled out by most of us.

          I guess I’m just in the camp that chooses to wait and see what these young players are capable of before writing them off as bodies or filler. I came into this season thinking they were capable of 9-10 wins and without the injuries I think they could have achieved that. You always want more playmakers, but inside of two years this team was rebuilt well enough to make a run at a winning record and that is impressive, at least to me anyway.

  10. I think the 49ers should release Alfred Morris, and Kenny. Cynthia got song along with the second round pick to Pittsburgh for Le’Veon Bell then signed Dez Bryant right now for a little nothing on a one-year tender he’s not a thousand yard receiver but in the Red Zone he’s a big Target with great hands something that 49ers are missing and last but not least bringing Colin Kaepernick for at least I work out at 2 sometime you got to adjust to what’s going on. Have a player just to your style of play and what’s going on right now is we need a veteran leader at quarterback and Colin Kaepernick offers that

    1. I think the San Francisco 49ers should release Alfred Morris and McKinney send Pierre Garcon to Pittsburgh along with the second round pick for Le’Veon Bell signed Dez Bryant for next to nothing on a one-year tender sure he’s not a thousand years wide receiver but he’s a big Target in the Red Zone in which the 49ers need at this point bring in Colin Kaepernick for a workout or two because at this point we need a veteran quarterback and without question he offers that for Shannon hand I think you have to adjust to what’s going on around you instead of having two player adjust to the system you’re trying to run because at this point is just not working time to put your pride to the side go get the players and win.

      1. I agree. Kaep would give the Niners their best chance to win.
        .
        Last season, KS started Hoyer, who pulled a Gabbert and benched himself. KS thought Hoyer was adequate, but his judgement was terribly naive.
        .
        Then he continued to refuse to sign Kaep, and threw CJB to the wolves. Luckily, CJB beat a horrendous Giants team, but KS relied on a QB who just admitted he did not have a clue. CJB did not shine, and lost all his other games with poor performances.
        .
        Then, like manna from heaven, JG fell into their laps, and he showed how having a good QB can elevate a team. That 5 game winning streak gave me hope, and I was content to see JG lead the team as the franchise QB, and Kaep was not needed.
        .
        Now, JG tore his ACL, so they are in dire need of a competent QB. CJB is tough, and competes hard, but he still is inadequate, makes poor decisions, is inaccurate at times and is a turnover machine.
        .
        Kaep still has the 17th best QBR rating in league history, over many Hall of Famers. He has a gaudy 4-2 road playoff record, and has set the QB rushing record with 181 yards in the playoffs. He made it to a SB in only 10 games, and equaled Joe Montana’s SB record by passing for over 300 yards while also running for over 50 yards. Even with those numbers, JL and KS refuse to even try him out. Sounds like they are content to lose without Kaep, instead of trying to do everything in their power to win.
        .
        KS is not impressing me as a genius by declaring that CJB is superior to Kaep. By every measurable index, he is not. CJB has won one game in his career. Kaep is a record setting SB QB.
        .
        The collusion and blackballing is proof that Kaep is being persecuted, and it has nothing to do with his football skills. Detractors say Kaep is not good anymore, but are terrified that if he got back on the field, he would prove them wrong.
        .
        KS says it is a scheme fit. I say KS is talking out of his rear end. He needs to quit farting around, and obtain the best players possible that gives them the best chance to win. Looks like another elegant tank job.
        .
        Yes, KS admits he is not competent enough to take Kaep, and devise a game plan with him to win games. In fact, he will not even try. That is obtuse. Just expect more losing.
        .
        Jed should show some leadership, and keep his word. He promised to do everything in his power to win. He should force JL to at least give Kaep a tryout. KS thinks Savage is a good QB? That deserves a savage rebuke.

        1. Sebbie…

          Kaep ain’t comin’ back.

          And don’t forget how quickly you abandoned your righteous principles last year… Shame on you!

          sebnynah says:
          August 27, 2017 at 6:18 pm
          If Hoyer can play like that, I will not mind if Kaep is blackballed.

          1. IF. I said IF Hoyer could do that. Hoyer could not do that.
            .
            Since Hoyer could not do that, I do mind that JL and KS are turtling, afraid of a mean tweet.

            1. No Sebbie….No.

              Hoyer was performing very well in that game on 8/27/17 (not if) and you commented while the game was in progress. He was performing and you blurted out ‘I don’t mond…’

              ‘If’ does not apply. It stands. Own it.

              You are slippery Seb. Very slippery….

              1. THAT’S the part of Seb’s that is so entertaining, Cassie!!! He thinks he’s the word-smith of the ether, a very clever man indeed!!

                It’s called “Seb-speak”, and I love it!

                Could just as easily have been a professional politician…………………………

              2. Cassie, you have bad breath.
                .
                Subsequently, Hoyer pulled a Gabbert, and benched himself.
                .
                With JG signed as the franchise QB, I did not mind that Kaep was being blackballed. I figured he would win his collusion case and would be allowed to play. Just not on the Niners. I wished him well, and stated that many teams would rather lose without Kaep, than win with him.
                .
                However, now that JG is injured, Kaep is a superior QB to CJB, and to compare Kaep to Mullens, is a joke.

        2. FREE-KIN SEB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          …………..and his false god, ‘ol wind-up hisself…………..SACK-OR-PICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          1. Saw, be honest. If you try to compare CJB’s stats to Kaep’s stats, Kaep is far superior.
            .
            The vitriol against Kaep is clouding your judgement.

            1. The idiot still talking and defending a guy who doesn’t even play football anymore. Grow up and get over it already!

            2. Sebs–

              His overall stats are better, no doubt—but are the stats of his last 3 yrs in the NFL better??????

              Im thinking……….I’d hate to live off the difference-a close shave indeed!

  11. Good one Terry! I betcha Garcon is the missing piece to the Steelers SB conquest! And we all know Pitt is in dire need of a wide receiver!! Maybe we can trade Soloman for JuJu, seeing the 49ers already passed on him once!

  12. Remember the days of 10-12 prognosticated wins and 2nd in the division? I think some people got very carried away and didn’t look at the overall talent.

      1. Perhaps, but I heard similar things from the members of the fan club out here. I think it is very easy to let optimism, desire and hope get away from reality and firm understanding of the realities on the ground. There is a tendency to devolve into fantasy idealism.

        Seen this in other areas of life too. Politics is also prone to this phenomena – religious belief also fall prone to this – hence the phrase “Drinking the Kool-Aid!”

        We all want so much for the 49ers to be good and relevant! We will work out in our brains how this can come to pass ignoring some of the obvious walls in the way.

        I think Greenspan called it “Irrational exuberance” which I think is an apt phrase.

      2. Naw, the JG ACL changed everything. Too many injuries.
        .
        With JG, I was hoping for improvement. I was hoping for a non losing season, 8-8. Only if the planets aligned and they could catch some breaks, could the Niners squeak into a wild card.
        .
        Now, with CJB, and Mullens, who has never taken a snap in an NFL game, the Niners lack a seasoned vet to lead the team.

        1. You made several prognostications so …

          In terms of argument, I think you’re illustrating my point.

          Some of felt the team should have gone with more veterans and talented players through FA and addressed key needs in draft. They chose a different route saying the personnel was good enough. Some of us felt the team was paper thin.

          You see the results. We are likely to be competing for high draft picks. I hope that they choose more wisely.

    1. Remember the days of 10-12 prognosticated wins and 2nd in the division? I think some people got very carried away and didn’t look at the overall talent.

      We who got carried away looked at the overall talent that was scheduled to play most if not all the season. You know, that talent that ultimately didn’t make it out of training camp or more than 2 or 3 games into the regular season.

      Other posters have succinctly stated what teams would do without their #1 QB, #1 (and now #2) RB, patchwork OL, patchwork WR corps, so I won’t repeat.

      What’s the Packers excuse? What’s the Eagles excuse? The Vikings excuse? These shouldn’t be middling .500 teams, What’s Grants pick for the playoffs, the Giants excuse? Whats my pick of the playoffs, the Texans excuse?

      1. I think you’re making my point. The Packers only have a QB (much like us) the rest of the O, meh!

        Many teams are prognosticated to do something based on last year. Sound familiar? This is true for the Eagles, Texans and Vikings. And even with all that these teams were always better than the 49ers based on talent.

        Yes, injuries hurt but the only one that really had a great impact was JG. One could argue that losing our RB was also a blow, but this was assumed as McKinnon never carried a full load and was behind the Viking OL. So this loss was theoretical. Another example of this was the assumption that the Philadelphia QB that carried the team last year would be the same as this year. Highly speculative to say the least!

        This team did well last year because of JG and most felt that they would only go up without adequately exploring the alternative view.

        In terms of Grant proposing the Giants. They have a SB winner and one of the most dynamic WRs in recent memory. However, it was an overreach by our fearless leader. He did the same last year but with our team.

  13. I have been saying all along that its time for a youth movement and its time to get rid of some players and coaches. Even if JG and McKinnon didnt get hurt they still wouldnt be a playoff team. Its time to look towards the future and the time is now. Pierre Garcon Arik Armstead Malcolm Smith and Jimmy Ward can all go elsewhere. Its time for players like Ritchie James Kendrick Bourne and Julian Taylor to start showcasing their talent. And its time for coaches like defensive coordinator Robert Saleh the offensive line coach and the conditioning coach to go as well. Each situation speaks for itself

  14. Younger players are getting their reps already. I’m not convinced that a blanket ‘sit down’ of veterans is needed. Certainly wouldn’t improve the health of the locker room. Is Shanahan close to losing said locker room?

    Shifting gears a bit, the defensive staff needs a really close look as the season wears on. Yes, all facets of 9er operations and play are consonantly being evaluated–doesn’t, however, guarantee positive results follow. I think the defensive staff is becoming increasingly vulnerable. An overhaul this off season wouldn’t be surprising.

    Also, scouting and talent acquisition–staff and methods/processes–need a thorough review. Would think an overhaul could be in order.

    Hey, at least we get that conditional pick from the Lions for Harold…

    1. Cassie Freakin…………

      I think their draft picks have been mostly productive, tho im thinkin a couple of misses. I think their balance sheet on the draft is in the black………………….what say you?

  15. We are rebuilding the team for 2 yrs. I am not convinced about the fact that we have to sacrifice this season to rebuild.

    1. .This is just the start of the second year. Add the fact of the system being hard to learn, most of the players are first or second year and all the injuries and the odds of success is very limited. This year is not being sacrificed to rebuild. This year was always slated to be part of the rebuilding process. The only difference is the number of wins expected based on the last five games of last year..

  16. Everyone on your list fits the description except Solomon Thomas. I am definitely not a Thomas fan but he’s only in his 2nd year. He perfectly fits your description of a guy who needs game reps to develop so I don’t agree that he needs to sit. He has to play to develop. Best case scenario, he takes 3 years to figure it out and becomes a player like Whitney Mercilus. It took a couple of years for Mercilus to figure it out but he turned into a good complimentary player on the Texans d-line. Problem for the 49ers is Thomas was drafted with the 3rd pick and Mercilus was drafted with the 26th pick. Through the first 2 years of Mercilus career he had 13 sacks. Through the first 1.25 years of Thomas’s career he has 3 sacks so it’s not looking good for Thomas. Still he has to play to develop. I don’t think you give up on your #3 pick 1.25 years into his career.

    1. The thing with Thomas is that even if he develops he would not be that much better at his role as run stopper than some of the other players already on this team. He was picked to be a versatile player one aspect of that being to create pressure on the QB and sacks. That has not happened and still shows no sign of happening. Perhaps some other team might be able to use his talents better. To use him here, he would have to replace an already effective player. Why would you remove another successful player just so Thomas can be equally successful. If you have excess at one position you trade one of the players and Thomas probably might get a greater return for value. For what he was drafted for and based on his cost he is a bust.

  17. I am a long time 49er fan and we r a good team what the problem is instead of playing real football we might as well play flag football we have a bunch of cry babys they can not even take a hit without getting hurt and that new roughing the passer rule it sucks

  18. Yea sure if we had a real GM with balls to do what is right…..but we don’t….we have a yes man at the GM position……

  19. Accepting losing seems to be the new norm, it will never sit well with me. The will to win, leaving nothing on the table, is becoming a prehistoric concept.

    1. It doesn’t sit well because losing breeds losing, but it’s not all doom ‘n gloom. It builds character, fuels drive, gives purpose, and causes one to gaze into the magic mirror for self evaluation, and discovery of adjustments that have to be made….

      1. No one is really suggesting losing on purpose. It is just prioritizing. Being that there is little chance to make the playoffs this season, it would be better to shift more of the priority towards building for next season. They sort of did that already by not blowing resources ( either via trade or draft) on an edge rusher. The cost would have just been too high and at the expense of the teams future. This was partially because they knew that the 2019 draft would be the best time to pick one up. It’s like waiting a time for a sale that you know is coming to buy and expensive item, instead of paying top dollar today. They were always geared to 2019 as the first year they would be ready to compete. They are still on track. Their QB, game breaker running back will be back. They will probably have and edge rusher and fill other positions via high picks in the draft . The players on the team will be more familiar with the system and the young /players more experienced. I for one can see a successful 2019 season in the future.

  20. This article means tanking the season. The basis is good, let’s develop folks but throwing caution to the wind even at end of season could result is blowouts and a moral killer that can bleed into next season. If this team can hold it together…don’t forget we have competitive in EVERY game this season… they can probably pick up another half a dozen wins mid season.

    * Aside from shooting themselves in the foot, we could be 3-2 at this point. An uneasy 3-2.

    Looking at schedule couldn’t the Niners pull out 5-6 more wins???

    @ Packers – LOSS
    vs Rams – LOSS
    @ Cardinals – WIN
    vs Raiders – WIN
    vs Giants – WIN
    @ Buccaneers – WIN
    @ Seahawks – LOSS
    vs Broncos – WIN
    vs Seahawks – WIN
    vs Bears – LOSS
    @ Rams- LOSS

      1. Bill Walsh:
        Year 1: 2-14
        Year 2: 6-10

        Kyle Shanahan:
        Year 1: 6-10
        Year 2: 2-14

        History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

          1. You think 49ers would go Bosa, Oliver, or Ferrell if they go defense in the first round? My personal favorite in that group is Ferrell in terms of matching the current 49er defense. I’ve been watching Ed Oliver since he was a freshman in high school and the guy is absolutely amazing. I’m a huge fan – Just not sure the 49ers need another interior d-lineman. Bosa is a great college player but his injury scares me. I think the most likely scenario is the 49ers select Staley’s replacement. Find a franchise left tackle with that first pick. I also wonder if the 49ers would draft a QB if they feel Beathard isn’t good enough or if they are concerned about JG’s long term health prospects. I like Herbert out of Oregon but I think the best QB coming out will be Will Grier. I’ve watched him a few times now and he has everything you want in an NFL qb.

            1. If they’re drafting at the top and don’t take Bosa, they should all be sacked. He’s exactly what this defense needs, and you pair him with a realistic F/A like Graham, or an unrealistic F/A like Lawrence or Clowney, sign Earl Thomas; this defense would no longer be hemorrhaging 28 points per game. I agree with your assessment regarding Oliver, but he would be redundant. Wrt to Bosa’s injury; Dr Meyers(the best abdomiable surgeon in the country) operated on him, and it’s 100% fixable.

              https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1046571134307766273

              Ferrell would be a great consolation prize, but Bosa is my personal favorite….

              1. You are assuming that Lawrence or Clowney would be available. I doubt they will be — just as it was in the past FA.

              2. MWD, if Graham isn’t available, my next tier would be the Broncos, Ray, Jags, Fowler or the Chiefs, Ford….

              3. Ray would be my first choice if Lawrence and Clowney are unavailable, followed by Fowler. I would pass on Ford.
                With that said, if the team has a strong chance at getting Bosa or Ferrell, then the 49ers could take a flier on someone like Ansah or Long (as long as they don’t cost too much), upgrade the free safety position, and maybe look at an upgrade at RG or address the red zone target issue. If they can’t, then taking the best edge rusher in free agency, upgrading free safety, and taking Ed Oliver in the draft would be the best way to go.

              4. Yep I agree with Razor. If they have a chance to draft Bosa and pass, the locks on their doors should be changed immediately.

              5. I might be the only one that disagrees that Bosa is a must pick if available. Usually I would agree given their obvious need and his obvious talent. But there are a lot of good looking edge guys this year in college so far that will likely be in the 2019 draft. If they can trade back and get a nice return in picks I think they can still get an excellent edge player in the draft plus some other key pieces with high picks.

              6. I agree with you, Big Scootie 97% of the time, but I think in this case you cannot afford to pass on an elite prospect like Bosa at the 2nd most important and costly position in football. You just can’t do it….

              7. It would be a tough call, that’s for sure. I just think there isn’t as steep a drop off to the next group of edge guys as there would normally be. Its shaping up to be a very good group. If you get a guy from the next tier + a top guy at another position of need that could well help the team more.

              8. Scooter,

                I see your point and normally I share that line of thinking, but I see a clear gap between Bosa and everybody else, even Ferrell. The Niners have added a lot of young players. Now they need to add a bona fide blue chip player rather than two good ones imo. A few days ago you were talking about taking an edge rusher later if they couldn’t get Bosa or Ferrell. Did that FLA-LSU game change your mind that much?

              9. Not just that game.

                Bosa is the clear cut #1 edge prospect, I agree. But I just disagree there is as big a gap between him and the next tier of guys, like Ferrell, Polite and Josh Allen, and then again not a huge drop to guys like Jackson, Sweat, etc.

                But hey, I’ll probably change my mind a few times between now and the draft. And besides, I think it is likely to all be a moot point as I doubt Bosa will be available when the 49ers pick. I still think the 49ers will win 4-5 games this year.

              10. I’ve not looked, but I would assume it is quite rare for 4 wins to be the lowest win total in the NFL over a season.

              11. Scooter.

                Fair enough. I see a big gap right now but could change my mind as well. You’re also likely right about it being a moot point. I don’t see the Niners being in position to draft him either.

  21. I wish they would not have finished as well last year they would have had a higher draft pick #1 or # 2.They keep missing on really good talent with their draft picks in early rounds. their defensive line all first-round picks suck the defensive backs suck think about Denzel Ward and Derwin James playing together in our secondary think about a defensive lineman pass-rusher Edge rusher we can get push up the middle and Edge Rush on the outside we would totally different team. All Garoppolo did was bring hope but we were still a rebuilding team with a lot of holes especially on defense.

    1. Exactly! It made everyone forget this was a rebuilding team. In those last five games a lot of things came together. Players came back from injuries and drops turned into catches. Just a break here and there and players not making mistakes can make a difference between a win an a loss. I mean even Celek who has never excelled in the entire time he was on this team looked like an AllStar. The team just needs to have that sort of thing happen again during a time when they are stronger and they might sin it all.

  22. I pretty much agree but some badd officiating kept us winning a game or 2 more Such as the chiefs game We do need some defensive line man who can get to the quarterback and we need wide receivers who know how to separate

    1. The WR corps is not that bad. You forget they are missing Goodman and Pettis – their game breakers. Garcon is probably done. With Goodwin in the line up it opens up the middle for the slot receivers. McKinnen will add an entirely new dimension to the passing game next season.

      Even elite receivers often get shut down. I remember it happening to Rice in some games. Or they might just have subpar games. I don’t know what it is with Niner fans who always compare their players bad games to other teams players at their best. Probably because they mostly see highlight reels. I remember watching Luck during the time when he was the hot item, make three blunders in one quarter, that cost his team the game. In the same season the Niner QB was raked over the coals for every play that did not turn out well. Every QB has subpar and less than stellar games. Even Joe Montana had games were he just stunk it up.

      Fine fans are emotional and would make very poor GM’s. If they want to view the game as emotional fans, then they need to recognize that and quit thinking they are anything more than fans.

  23. As soon as Garcon had those early drops in camp and preseason, I suspected he was done. Add aging to a neck injury and a formerly sure hand receiver dropping balls is a pretty good indicator. You should never expect a player to come completely back from an injury like that, especially if they are older. Every player is not a Frank Gore. Many have early expiration dates.

    Celek has been a fringe player his entire career. I don’t know how he has hung onto the roster for so long. He did have a couple of productive games last season. Remember “Celek Time”. Well every player might have a good game now and then, but a player is never as good as their best game or as bad as their worst. I wouldn’t necessarily dump Wick that quickly. When you drop one pass that might reflect that worst game that you are not as bad as. Hey even Kittle had drops. Is that normal or just a one time thing for him? He is still a young player so we can not know for sure.

    Garnett just seems like a marshmellow. Sure he played well for the short time he was in, but was that like Celeks few good games? We don’t know if he would have sustained that. Remember that many of the players who are sucking this season played really well last season. Some players go through cycles of good and bad play and it depends on which cycle they are in. I is always better to have a larger sample size before making a quick assumption. Garnett has already shown that he will not grace the field unless he feels 100%. You can not rely on a O-lineman who has that attitude. They need to dump him. Most of the O-line played hurt this last game and Garnett wants to sit with a hurt ” little piggie”. Cut him or trade him. Some foolish team might give you something for him.

    Trading Sherman at this time might not get you what he is worth. This team is just snake bit injury wise. It has hit everyone across the board for multiple reason. This can not be entirely blamed on the strength and conditioning coach. Having players fall on a leg in an odd position are freak accidents that can happen to anyone. Think Bowman. Same with Staley. He was also playing hurt. Right now they have enough trouble putting a health O line on the field. Getting rid of a starter wouldn’t help at all.

    1. > I don’t know how he has hung onto the roster for so long.
      hard work, grit, coachability and character mostly. Can’t have a team with 53 starters — need solid backups and third-stringers.

  24. I dont disagree with Grant’s idea in general. I slightly differ in how it should be done, but they do need to see who they have that actually has the requisite talent to build off of. Thomas can be rotated with Armstead on passing downs and on the inside and with Taylor on the outside on base downs. But if either Armstead or Thomas proves to be superior as an interior rusher, then the team might look into moving the other if Taylor can play the base down DE. They will not get their return on investment, but this team has so many holes to fill another pick (or player) might allow them to get a solid contributor to fill one.

    I think Staley is gone after this season but don’t see a reason to move McGlinchey to the left side yet. There are plenty of good rushers coming off the right side now, and I don’t think the left side is his best side, so the benefit of moving him is there is minimal in my mind.

    As for Garcon… I tend to agree but I don’t see this being a real issue given the attrition rate of the position.

    1. The 49ers already have enough bad records like the new one they added last Sunday. Adding to that record by being the first team in history to platoon two first round draft choices is not advisable.

  25. First step to fix 49ers….Take boat loads of cash to Ohlone elders and have them release the curse on the 49ers for building their stadium over the elders Ohlone graveyard,then whatever cash is left buy knee braces for everyone on the team

  26. Dante Whitner just had an interesting take on S Thomas comparing S Thomas to Ahmad Brooks saying he doesn’t work in this scheme at all and needs to be a olb in a 3-4 defense

    1. That’s an interesting take but I don’t think he’s athletic enough to play in space. Ahmad Brooks was a much better athlete than Thomas, he even played ILB when the Niners were shorthanded. Plus, doesnt an OLB in a 3-4 scheme have to be a threat to rush the passer from the edge? Thomas has proven he is incapable of that.

  27. Solomon Thomas is so disappointing. You just cant miss with a pick that high. He has a grand total of 6 tackles, no sacks and no tackles for loss in five games. Good Grief.

  28. It’s an interesting discussion Grant and I don’t completely disagree that you need to see what you have, but there are other things to consider. Every player in that locker room has to have a reason to show up every day and practice hard to play hard. That doesn’t happen if you just start inserting guys who aren’t better than the players they are replacing. The football locker room is somewhat of a meritocracy in that players believe the best guy plays regardless of circumstance. You can lose them very quickly if you start making decisions based on factors beyond the playing field. Now, there is some justification to your position once the team gets to a point where they know they are no longer competing for anything but pride. When you get to December and you have no playoff expectations, that is when you can start playing younger players based on wanting to see what you have for the future.

    We also need to keep in mind the fact that Coaches by nature are always making decisions based on winning a game that particular week. It would be going against every inclination they have to put a lesser team on the field a quarter of the way into a season no matter how bad the outlook is long term.

    I think we’ll see some of what you are proposing, maybe even soon with the WR position, but not a lot until there is nothing to play for.

    1. Yep. And once those vets are no longer playing, they’ll know the end is near with the team. Not a good idea to have that type of situation for a number of months. Less than a month is probably okay, but I’ve never been in an NFL locker room, so don’t really know if veteran discontentment damages the locker room dynamic and casts doubt on the coaches.

        1. The vets could foment discontent and doubt in the “vision”. Also, as has been pointed out, it is incumbent upon the coaches to try to win games. I’m not totally disagreeing with your suggestion, just think it would be better to get the young guys more playing time, but not at the expense of benching better veterans for the entire season. I suspect the NFL would have something to say about it to York because that would tarnish the shield (i.e. blatantly tanking for the season).

          Also, Thomas has only been with the team for 1.25 years as has been mentioned. You can’t bench the 3rd round pick. He deserves more time, however, a message could be sent to him by decreasing his playing time until he performs better. And if he doesn’t try to trade him at the end of the season for a 4th or 5th rounder and move on (sucks, but cut bait if you have to).

          1. The 49ers did the same thing with Bowman last year. If Garcon becomes a malcontent, trade him.

            Thomas can play in running situations, but not passing situations. Need to see what others can do.

            1. I agree with you on Garcon and called him out in the Minny game. However, what I don’t agree with his a wholesale benching of veterans at this point. In December, it might be more feasible.

              1. I would bench Garcon, trade Sherman, move Staley to right tackle, rotate Garnett in with Person at right guard, rotate Armstead, Day and Taylor at DT next to Buckner in the nickel defense, bench Ward and bench Mitchell.

              2. Grant:

                Your general idea is not a bad one, it’s the extreme scope that you suggest that is the problem. Don’t take offense, but it smacks of inexperience, imo. A toned down version of what you suggest should be considered.

              3. The 49ers gain absolutely nothing by continually giving Garcon targets. He’s retarding Kendrick Bourne’s development. Bourne should start.

        2. You have a point on Garcon and Celek..and I’m starting to sour on Staley..
          it kinda hurts to say that about Joe..

          CJ…is starting to sour on me too..
          Idk man…
          Mullens might need to be called up..
          I realize that CJ has more experience than Nick..but if we’re gonna see the QB mistakes like we saw in Arizona in various stages in San Diego and last year..
          I rather see those mistakes from a guy that has no experience.. then from a guy who does..Albeit he has small experience..but I don’t think the drop-off will be that significant..

          But that’s something to think about in the next few games.
          I don’t think Shanahan will hesitate to make a move on that…

          But back to Staley ,Garcon and Celek!

          They seem to be apart of bad plays each week…
          Garcon drops have killed drives.
          Celek has killed drives..
          Staley getting beat at crucial times..

          Rebuilding can suck and yet be fun and beneficial at the same time..
          So I kinda agree with you on that Grant..

          Alot of people are harping on Saleh..
          What about Rex Ryan as dc? I know he’s on ESPN now..

          1. Rex is one helluva a DC! Would his ego allow him to take the demotion? I just can’t see how he would fit in with JL/KS personalities though. He sure would bring some swagger to that sideline

  29. Grant….

    A while back I asked about the health of the locker room–has Shanahan crossed the threshold where he’s lost the team. If there was a response, it didn’t register. My bad.

    So, here we are closing in on a Monday night battle against the Packers at Lambeau Field. We have one win and a pile of losses. Injuries have been brutal. Fans are bringing out the knives…

    How would you gauge the heath of the locker room this week? Is the locker room unusually resilient, or is it very brittle–ready to cave in? Is it already lost? If the 9ers are thoroughly dismantled in Green Bay, would your assessment change?

    We can go on and on about crappy coaching, lousy leadership, and pitiful players… What about the locker room as an entity? Loss of the locker room is usually fatal.

    Thanks in advance.

      1. So you’re saying the locker room is reasonably cohesive–implying that it’s healthy?

        It could be. Obviously I’m no where near as close to the locker room pulse as you are.

  30. + 1000 Grant couldn’t be more right. Though I disagree that they weren’t a playoff contender, provided they stayed “key player injury free”, I think they would have been in the mix for a wild card. Agree or disagree on that, it doesn’t really matter now. The season is lost. Time to determine what you really have on hand and put the rebuild process into overdrive. Bill Walsh didn’t have any problem doing that from ‘79 to ‘81. Kyle and John need to be ruthless now and really dissect this dumpster fire.

    1. When 49ers moved to Santa Clara I was hoping the City of San Francisco would respond like the Browns, Colts and Oilers cities did and insist that the name could not go with the team. You reminded me of this because it occurs to me that since the move coincides with the York family ownership, a good name for the team would be the Santa Clara Dumpster Fire.

        1. Figs used to be grown as a commercial crop in greater Santa Clara County. We could go for a total name change…the Santa Clara Figs. Fear the Fig! Fighting Figs!

              1. Build a 70,000 seat world class stadium in Seaside… 9ers could become the Monterey Bay Sea Cucumbers. Would make for a cool mascot.

  31. I think Sherman is a glorified coach at this point. He still commands respect, but the writing is on the wall for this season. Also, I wouldn’t expect him back next season. I am sure a contender like the Chiefs would take him. Their secondary, without Eric Berry, has really been lacking. Staley is needed just to protect who ever is behind center the rest of the year. I don’t see anyone on this line who could do better. I see him as an insurance policy. Garcon just isn’t the same, and I am all for them moving on next season or sooner. I am going to wait and see another season for Thomas before I label him a bust. Grant, correct me if I am wrong, but haven’t you called Armstead a bust in the past? Why should he replace Thomas? Celek was once reliable, but now not dependable, I wouldn’t mind seeing him benched or cut in favor of a younger player’s development. It would be great if through this dismal season, some young talent emerges or some units gel.
    I also agree that Jimmy G cannot carry this franchise. He struggled this season, and I can’t help but wonder if it was due to that perceived pressure? I guess last year with the season already over, he came in and played without the pressure or expectations of a post season and a mega contract.

  32. From MM

    “It comes down to discipline. Discipline is involved in tackling. Discipline is involved in penalties. Discipline is involved in mental errors. Discipline and cleaning up the mental breakdowns has to be the focus in order for this young team to continue to grow and improve.”

    This is where my beef is ‘Discipline’ and its been lacking far too many years on the Niners. Until it is instilled this team will do nothing even with good players.

    1. Discipline is the bridge between thought and accomplishment. I think this should be on a huge plaque as you enter and exit the locker room, similar to the Patriots Mission Statement, “Do Your Job”….

      1. I know I have been harping on it but the same problems for years needs to come to an abrupt end and I thought it would with KS it hasn’t . I understand all the injuries and everything else involved with that. Losing is one thing, losing like they did to the Cards is not acceptable.

        1. Any potential HC candidates out there who could instill discipline quickly, gain respect amongst players–sustain it–and win too?

          1. I am not looking to replace KS I happen to think his offense will do well when it gets discipline. I am sure KS is aware of it and is not happy with it, if he isn’t then….

    2. I agree that the team needs to stop with the presnap penalties, but it’s hardly a 49er problem. I watch a bunch of games every week and it happens with every team. The Niners aren’t losing because they are more undisciplined than other teams.

        1. I was referring to penalties not giveaways. They aren’t losing because of penalties and are in the middle of the pack in that regard overall.

              1. Turnovers can happen when a DL gets his hand up and deflects a pass. They can happen at the end of the game when a team has to take chances to get back in the game. They can happen when a player is engulfed by multiple defenders and they pull it away from him. They can happen when backups have to play a bigger role than they are accustomed to. It’s only about discipline when a player makes the same mistakes over and over again. Turnovers are more often a random play; not a discipline issue.

              2. “It’s only about discipline when a player makes the same mistakes over and over again”

                Kinda like what we’ve seen with Beathard

              3. “It’s only about discipline when a player makes the same mistakes over and over again”
                Kinda like what we’ve seen with Beathard

                He doesn’t make the same mistakes over and over. He lost 2 fumbles on Sunday; he lost two fumbles in 7 starts all of last season. Interceptions are not created equal. Some are poor decisions and some are bad luck. It’s not a sign of poor discipline.

            1. In regards to penalties there are a bunch of teams that are within 2-3 of each other. It’s not costing the Niners games. Quite often the best teams are also the most penalized.

              1. Rocket you keep talking about penalties, yup that’s a part of it but its not the whole thing. Dropped passes, missed assignments, missed tackles, are products of not having good discipline. Its just not one thing its a bunch of things. These things go on in just about every game for years for the Niners. You use to complain about it when Tomsula and Kelly were HC what’s different? JG injury is a discipline problem. He should of run out of bounds he didn’t now the rest of the team pays the price. Also I am not talking about discipline as a punishment but as a work ethic, a self control thing.

              2. The Patriots are the standard no question, but that doesn’t change the fact some of the best teams are also the most penalized year after year. There is no correlation between penalties and losing games. Of course you’d prefer not to take penalties, but that is often out of a teams hands and more about the crew officiating the game on a given week.

              3. UC,

                I had a number of complaints with Tomsula and Kelly mostly due to poor schemes, but I didn’t blame them for player errors. The things you described here happen to pretty much every team every week. Nobody plays error free football. How is the Coach responsible when a receiver drops a pass or a defender misses a tackle? Those are things that are Coached but you can’t go on the field and play for them. JG, like every other QB in the league, was Coached to slide and go out of bounds. That injury happened because he made a bad decision; not because he wasn’t Coached to get out of bounds.

                These are professional athletes who have been Coached how to play the game their entire lives and yet they still make mistakes. That’s the human element not Coaching. If you have a particular player who continues to make the same mistake over and over, then it’s up to the Coaches to help him fix it or stop putting him on the field, but there is never a time when you are going to have a game without mistakes.

                I like Shanahan. I wanted him here for a long time because I see a bright offensive mind that will bring us back to the type of offense we were accustomed to for more than two decades, but I don’t expect him to Coach the defense and I’m not going to blame him because he has to try and win games with backups at key positions. I understand the frustration due to the hand the Niners have been dealt, but imo blaming Coaching is low hanging fruit when the real problem is they simply haven’t had any luck with injuries.

              4. Rocket not once have I ever mentioned coaches or players as the problem. Yes teams have problems but winning teams don’t have lots of pre snap, missed assignments, numerous missed tackles, dropped passes, game after game for years, if they do they are not winning except against other teams that have the same ailments.

                I am very fond of KS and the offensive tactics that he employs. I don’t want him to go anywhere, and I don’t blame him, like I say this has been going on for years and transcends HC’s. Its the same crap just a different year. Notice I am not harping on turnovers or fumbles or pass rush, just funde’mental’ stuff, stuff that happens in a game but should be held to a minimum due to discipline. You cant have all these problems in a game and expect to win very many games.

              5. UC,

                I’m involved in multiple discussions about this and most are blaming Coaching so I lumped you in with the others. My apologies. I agree with you about the mental errors. I’m sick of them too.

              6. Rocket:

                Maybe I’m misremembering or misunderstood a response that Saleh had a while back regarding missed tackles. He seemed to say that they teach the correct technique and emphasize it. The subtle implication is that the players are not learning it for some reason (subtly throwing the players under the bus). He needs to make it happen and that is all there is to it.

                I have a hard time buying excuses on this particular issue.

  33. The 49ers offensive line is on a roll

    It is an overall struggle this season, but we are at least seeing improvement from the offensive line.
    By David Fucillo@davidfucillo Oct 10, 2018, 1:46pm PDT.

    Pro Football Focus released their weekly offensive line rankings heading into Week 6, and they rank the 49ers No. 5 overall. PFF focused on Mike McGlinchey in this week’s comments, which makes sense. He has allowed only three hurries the past two weeks, and is the top ranked run-blocking tackle in the league (total, not just rookies). He’s on pace to earn a spot on the NFL’s all-rookie team, and is putting together a strong season regardless of rookie status.

    https://www.ninersnation.com/2018/10/10/17960270/49ers-offensive-line-stats-week-6-packers

  34. Yes, the Niner’s should trade or cut every player over 27 years old. They need youth and inexperience, that will cure the mental mistakes. It shouldn’t be what ever player is best at their position plays, but who is the youngest.
    We all know, of course, all the college players who get drafted in 2019 will be much better than most of the current Niner players. The new and shiny toys are always the best. :)
    I don’t have a problem cutting Celek, in fact it could send a message to the rest of the team that stupid mistakes will not be tolerated. Trading or cutting Sherman or Garcon makes no sense. If the younger players cannot beat them (and with injuries they have had a chance to do that) then the vets play.
    Moving Thomas inside and Armistead outside should be tried. They should blitz more to pressure the QB.
    They should not make it harder for CJB to succeed. That makes zero sense.

      1. I think 4942 was getting at making it harder for the current Niners QB to succeed. Could be (fill in the name). Not in developing a particular 2nd year player.

      2. Gee Grant… I might be wrong but I think some development is a good thing for any young QB on any team–even if said QB is a backup first and an occasional starter when needed.

        I suspect you were just pulling 49er42’s chain…….right?

            1. I care. I want the Niners to improve the roster, even at the QB position. Maybe take a higher ranked savvy veteran who has accomplished a lot in the league.
              .
              I do disagree with 42. They need to retain veteran leadership. Most successful teams are stocked with grizzled veterans, with a sprinkling of youth. Young team are inexperienced teams, and they tend to make more mistakes. The veterans have learned from their mistakes, so they tend to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
              .
              Veterans are battle hardened and battle tested. Rookies make rookie mistakes. Veterans who have lasted, have proven their talent over the years. With rookies, there is a potential that they could be busts, even with good measurables.
              .
              Nowadays, with better diet and training, players can play past 30.
              .
              Grant makes a point that they should trade away players, so they get something for them, instead of cutting them, and getting nothing. He is smart to advocate trading away players to teams that have big needs due to injury. Staley could be rewarded for his exemplary service to the Niners by trading him away to a SB contender, so he could compete for a ring.

              1. Cassie, I could care less about Raider ancient history.
                .
                Now, Seb Janiskowski interests me more. He seems timeless, and has a cool first name. ;p

              2. Cassie, yes you do.
                .
                I have dominated your psyche so much, you just have to haunt my posts.
                .
                Guess my dissing your daddy just hurts too much.
                .
                Which reminds me, the stench of Baalke still lingers on this site. Sure am glad Jed got rid of that tool. Baalke is as bad as Joe Thomas. Maybe more so, because Baalke dismantled a SB team.

              3. Cassie Baalke is Trent’s daughter.
                .
                Kinda sick and twisted to have a dirty old man posing as a young woman.

              4. Kinda sick and twisted to have a dirty old man posing as a young woman.

                Can’t be worse than posing as a Niner fan when in reality your a Raider fan!

  35. Jeff Garcia:

    “Solomon Thomas was taken No. 3 in the 2017 draft. I have not seen anything yet out of him that excites me and shows some dominant characteristics”

    Yet is the key word!

  36. “Now, be honest, they probably won’t win more than four games. ”

    Yup. 4 wins if we are lucky. I agree with most of the article. I think Sherman does a lot of good on the field developing the young guys. I never understood the Garcon signing especially at that cost. We had Q Boldin who I would argue was a better receiver at a fraction of the cost. Meanwhile, we let some pretty good receiver talent slip through the free agency and draft cracks.

    What else is new.

  37. I’m pretty confident that if the team did make these moves that the level of play on the field would be about the same.

  38. Anyone else notice the change in Shanahan’s delivery during his presser yesterday? Very rushed and almost out of breath at times.

      1. He knows he’s in your doghouse Sebbie…and that’s a place no one wants to be. You’ve exposed him for the empty soul he is.

        The wrath of Sebbie is legend. Have mercy Your Excellency….

          1. Seb-skov…………..

            You dont like KS side-line demeanor?? Too much hang-dog???

            Seb, why do you continue to have it in for KS? And then I immediately remember………..

            Must I remind you of Bill Walsh demeanor when the Cards came back to whup our 9ers many yrs ago??
            Im betting I dont………do I need to pull it up out of you-tube and show you his demeanor?? Im betting I don’t.

            These constant attacks on KS……….and then I remember why…………..

  39. Grant asserts that rookies need to play, to get better.
    .
    I beg to differ. On playoff teams, with solid talent, rookies will not supplant the starters. It is better for the rookies to sit, study hard to absorb the playbook, and work out to gain muscle so they can take the sledgehammer blows. Eventually, after much study and hard work, the former rookies will be poised to take over when called, and they should be well coached and well prepared to do their duties.
    .
    On cellar dwellers, rookies will become starters because the team is bereft of talent. They will be thrown into the breach, and either sink or swim. Usually, there is a coaching turnover, so rookies need to learn a whole new system. However, it would be much better to have continuity, with coaches utilizing tried and true strategies, in a well established scheme. With the present carousel in the coaching since JH. it is hard for the rookies to learn and thrive, with little stability. KS was working on establishing a workable scheme, but with all the injuries,everything is in flux.
    .
    I mentioned AS, as an example of a player getting thrown to the wolves, and regressing. Grant then stated every position but QBs. As a position group, the rookie WRs would benefit from sitting and learning. They are not familiar with the pro system, since the college system is so different than the pros. WRs, who were used to being wide open, now are blanketed by the DBs. One reason why I think it is better to sign FA WRs, is that FA WRs are battle hardened, and battle tested, and have proven that they can survive and thrive in the league. Rookies tend to get injured, like Pettis did.
    .
    Another position group that may benefit by sitting and studying, are the CBs. It is plain to see how a CB who gets beaten many times, will eventually lose his confidence. If a rookie DB has a chance to sit and study, he will be able to recognize WR tactics, and how to defend against them. A rookie DB may learn to have selective amnesia, so he will forget all the bad plays, and not get rattled. He will remember the good plays, and try to be consistent.
    .
    Sure, experience helps, but there may be different scenarios to consider. Rookies may make rookie mistakes, but if he sat for a year, he is no longer a rookie, and hopefully, he has learned how to play better by watching the veterans.
    .
    Grant also mentioned trading away veterans. After 5 games, that may be premature, but with all the attrition in the league, many teams are looking for replacement starters. If the Niners can get good compensation, they should explore the possibilities, but maybe after the 7th game, just before the trade deadline.
    .
    If they did consider trading away Thomas, they should stop using him sparingly. They should play him a lot, to showcase his talents.

    1. For fun, translating Sebbie’s 5th paragraph above to Armenian and back to English…

      Another official group that can use sitting and working is the CB. It’s hard to see how often the crushed Central Bank eventually loses confidence. If the running robot has the opportunity to sit and work, he will be able to recognize the WR’s tactics and how to protect them. A rookie DB can learn to be selective amnesia, so you forget all the bad games and do not take the chanting. He remembers good games and tries to be consistent.

      Do not take the chanting… Ever.

      1. Wow, talk about obsessing….Why are you trying so hard?
        .
        Maybe you should comment on something about football on your own, instead of haunting my posts.
        .
        The stench of Baalke is strong today.

          1. Prime, I thought you learned your lesson.
            .
            Keep reading me. Remember, reading is fundamental, and maybe some day, reading comprehension will be achieved.

  40. Seb, didn’t Pettis get injured on special teams? Has zero to do with your point there. Speaking of that point, I don’t agree with sitting rookie WRs. First, injuries happen to anyone. And yeh we all know that sometimes sitting and watching is productive to a young player, but it serves no purpose when much of the development is learning timing and how to create space. You can’t do that from the sidelines. The best receivers develop through reps, especially when they have borderline NFL talent. Cooper Kupp is a great example. Julio Jones, Mike Evans, Hill, those guys played right out of the gate.

    1. Yo, for every WR who has shined, I could recite a litany of all the rookie WRs who became injured. They just have not had enough time to work out and build muscle so they can take the sledgehammer blows. It is compounded by having poor teams throw them out on the field because there is a dearth of talent, so they essentially become cannon fodder.
      .
      Pettis is a rookie WR, and he became injured while playing. Did not matter that it came on a punt return.

  41. It takes 3-5 drafts and offseasons to rebuild an entire roster. A lot of you are looking at the last 2 drafts and saying where are the special players or homerun hitters? That won’t become identifiable until they are surrounded by other talented players. For example in the secondary. Sherman has allowed one side of the field to be impassable. Once Tartt and Colbert or maybe another safety drafted or developed(DJ Reed) become more experienced and able to play consistently, then the secondary grows into a formidable unit.

    The hard thing for fans is that it takes time and you have to have good coaching to develop that talent and of course, be lucky in finding that type of player who can become that guy who makes others around him better.
    Perfect example, Jimmy G or McClinchey.

    When Shanny and Lynch took over, they had to and still have to, is add more talent across every single position group.
    Let’s be clear, the 49ers need another 2-3 drafts and free agency periods to get this roster embalmed with more talent.
    You won’t find that special player until the sum of that position group unit has better talent around it.

    This season is actually a blessing in disguise because now the organization can identify where to focus on acquiring more talent and depth. But for anyone doubting the work done to date by John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan need to look at every single position group on the team and look at what was there before they took over 2 years ago.

    1. “where are the special players or homerun hitters?”

      The special players they’ve drafted are Kittle and McGlinchey.

      When your TE and FB have more receiving yards than your entire WR group combined that’s not good, especially when you are responsible for bringing every one of them in.

      On defense they took 2 guys in round 1 who don’t make an impact. Thomas doesn’t get sacks, a few pressures, and Foster has 2 passes defended in 13 starts around getting hurt constantly.

      The 2017 draft really looks like it’s going to be similar to the 2012 draft, especially when it comes around to 2020 and their contracts start coming into the discussion.

      You could add Goodwin to Kittle as a “homerun hitter” but it looks like he’s slipped back to the guy who missed a bunch of games prior to last year.

      1. The 2017 draft really looks like it’s going to be similar to the 2012 draft,

        Now you have the ability to evaluate a draft class less than a year away? Wow that’s some kinda talent you have there Jack.

        Foster, Witherspoon, Taylor, Kittle, Colbert have shown the ability to play in the NFL. They are by no means established players but they are NFL capable. They’ve also been plagued by injuries which is not uncommon for young players still in the development process.

        Solo Thomas and Williams were misses but that happens. They should have not taken Thomas that high and it was a mistake.

        The 2017 draft was good. Good enough considering they got 5 draft picks playing and playing well at times. Will they get to a second contract? Way too early to tell.

        1. “Now you have the ability to evaluate a draft class less than a year away? Wow that’s some kinda talent you have there Jack.”

          Thanks

          “Foster, Witherspoon, Taylor, Kittle, Colbert have shown the ability to play in the NFL.”

          Is showing the ability to play in the NFL all that is expected out of guys taken 31st and 66th? You’ll need to add Thomas to THAT list. He’s also an NFL worthy player.

          The only player in that list that’s shown worthy of their draft spot is Kittle. He’s the best player taken in 2017, followed by Breida as an UDFA.

          Colbert isn’t playing well and neither is Witherspoon. They’re the reason the 49ers were down 7-6 on Sunday one play after getting the lead. Getting smoked by a rookie WR taken 3 spots after Dante Pettis.

          Witherspoon is playing so good that Greg Mabin is subbing in for him. He’s so good that teams don’t even worry about going after old man Sherm who’s out there on one good wheel.

          1. It’s a rebuild where the organization is drafting and developing. It takes time. You can’t judge these kids so prematurely when there is so much additional talent needed.
            Colbert’s been hurt and so has Witherspoon. That’s also been a factor in their play.

            Your pissing and moaning about theses young kids and their play is getting boring.

        2. “Now you have the ability to evaluate a draft class less than a year away? Wow that’s some kinda talent you have there Jack.”

          This from the guy that said he would know whether Colbert and Witherspoon were ever going to be any good based on the KC game?

            1. And you don’t see any hypocrisy in then calling out Jack for his “ability to evaluate a draft class less than a year away”?

              1. This is a banged up team missing a lot of key players and playing young guys in prominent roles. You can judge all you want. The point is make sure you state all the factors that are going on with this team.
                If we had anything that resembled an NFL calibre pass rush, Colbert and Witherspoon don’t get torched. They also don’t get torched because one guy is playing on a hobbled ankle and another is playing on a near separated shoulder.

              2. “If we had anything that resembled an NFL calibre pass rush, Colbert and Witherspoon don’t get torched.”

                Probably, and the fact that the pass rush wasn’t addressed in the offseason falls on Shanahan and Lynch.

                “They also don’t get torched because one guy is playing on a hobbled ankle and another is playing on a near separated shoulder.”

                So now your saying that an injury is what caused Colbert to jump the under route by Fitzgerald instead of staying in his deep middle 1/3 responsibility?

              3. It takes time to address every single flaw you have when taking over a 2-14 roster. That does fall on Shanny and Lynch and I believe like I’ve stated multiple times, they need another 2-3 drafts and free agency periods.

                “So now your saying that an injury is what caused Colbert to jump the under route by Fitzgerald instead of staying in his deep middle 1/3 responsibility?
                No I’m saying that young players make technical mistakes. That’s part of the development process where young kids make poor decisions. It doesn’t help playing injured either as Spoon and Colbert are doing.

              4. Shanahan and Lynch took over a team that had 33 sacks the season before and made moves that resulted sacks going down to 30 last season and on pace for 29 this season.

                In 2 offseasons they’ve made it worse.

                “No I’m saying that young players make technical mistakes. That’s part of the development process where young kids make poor decisions.”

                Especially young players that aren’t particularly good to start with.

              5. The year before they took over they were playing a completely different scheme defensively.
                That might be another reason in addition to the young players they have drafted and developing.

              6. “That might be another reason in addition to the young players they have drafted and developing.”

                Or it could be that in both offseasons they’ve released the sack leader from the previous season and the young guys they’ve drafted aren’t good pass rushers.

              7. Buckner, Thomas, Armstead are not pure pass rushers. I think Pita T is a project as is Julian Taylor.

                We need to draft a pass rusher in the mold of Lawrence Taylor. Nick Bosa might be that guy, Clelin Ferrell is a great pick to help.
                I think this offseason the team addresses pass rush, corner and offensive line.

              8. “I think this offseason the team addresses pass rush, corner and offensive line.”

                They’ve spent 2 top 100 picks in the last 2 drafts on CB’s, drafted 5 DB’s in total, and they still need to draft more.

                When Baalke was blowing picks on DB’s every year towards the end he was ripped for it.

      2. The 2017 draft really looks like it’s going to be similar to the 2012 draft, especially when it comes around to 2020 and their contracts start coming into the discussion.

        This is a reach of epic proportions Jack. You are down on the roster I get it, but you are now misrepresenting things completely. 7 of the 10 players taken in the 2017 draft are starters or rotating. Of the 2012 draft. only two lasted for more than a cup of coffee and contributed little while they were here. The drafts are not remotely alike.

        1. Ok, maybe more like a cross between 2011 and 2012. That 2011 draft was better. Those 2011 guys made plays and impacts early then fizzled. The 2012 guys stunk. Mash that together and you get the 2017 draft class.

          The 2017 guys play, but other than Kittle don’t really make an impact.

          *oops, messed up my avatar

    2. I believe you are correct on this, Prime. People simply forget what Baalke did to this team……….Frank Gore saw this as well.

    1. Was hoping he’d give props to Sun Tzu…

      Love his interaction with Grant….’complex offense’, ‘discipline’…

      1. I cringe every time he asks a question then I burst out laughing at the response by coach.
        The best part is everything Shanahan talks about is completely opposite of what Sebnnoying thinks!

    2. KS: “I don’t think turnovers are discipline.”

      Exactly what I said above.

      I give you credit for asking the questions Grant, but you are following a narrative that you made up, and there should be no surprise Shanahan doesn’t agree with you. Most of the problems this team has had have nothing to do with discipline.

        1. No it means Grant’s view isn’t accurate. I knew it when he threw it out here and the HC knew it when he heard the question. Players don’t turn the ball over or miss tackles because of a lack of discipline. A lot goes into why these things happen and trying to pass it off as a lack of discipline is a simplistic take on a complex problem. When a team is losing games those who go for the low hanging fruit blame the Coaching. It’s an age old tradition that is lazy and usually misinformed.

          1. When you see tackles being missed over and over again, isn’t it a fair question to ask the coaches if they are practicing and emphasizing this during practice? I just rewatched the KC game on a bigger screen and the amount of missed tackles made me sick to my stomach.

            If the coaches then respond that they are emphasizing and practicing technique and you feel that the coaching is not at fault, then one can only blame the players. And the players are by and large selected by the FO and HC.

            1. Cubus,

              Coaches can teach, run drills, yell until they are blue in the face but they can’t do it for them. Yes they picked the players, but drafting players is a crap shoot because you have to take a leap of faith that they will take to Coaching and can develop. If a player is lazy or unwilling to do what is being taught, that is on the player.

          2. Mike McCarthy disagrees.

            With all due respect, Rocket, you always defend the coaches. 100 percent of the time. I think you identify with them. Something to think about. No offense. You’re a good guy and very knowledgeable.

            1. How am I supposed to yell obscenities at you when you are respectful? Stop it ;)

              You could be right to a degree in that I do see things from the Coaching side a little more, but I didn’t give the previous Coaching staffs any undo credit and held them accountable. To me it comes down to the fact that these are professional football players who have been taught how to do this since they were kids. When you get to this point it’s more about your talent and attitude than whether a Coach is ripping you for screwing up. I just don’t agree with your analogy that the problems they are having in regards to turnovers, missed tackles etc. are a discipline issue. Having discipline as a professional football player means you work all year to be the best you can be. Working out, diet, off field behavior etc. is about discipline. Making mistakes in the heat of battle is not a discipline issue, it’s a human error issue, and other times it’s flat out bad luck. There is no doubt the 9ers have issues. I just don’t agree with how you are categorizing them.

      1. I didn’t make up a narrative. Lots of people in the league agree with me. You and Shanahan disagree. That’s fine.

    3. Playing with discipline means playing smart, avoiding mistakes. Missing tackles, missing assignments, incurring penalties, throwing picks and fumbling the ball is not playing smart, disciplined football.
      .
      KS is sounding more like Chip, who refused to answer Grant’s questions. KS answered the question, but got the answer wrong.
      .
      It’s OK, Prime. Grant gave me a big compliment by asking about discipline. However, he should have asked- How would KS coach to instill more discipline in the players. Then, if KS declared that he did not know how to do that, or that discipline was not needed, he would have looked even more clueless.

  42. Who was the “reporter” who asked Kyle in today’s presser what he thought of the undisciplined tackling by the offense?

        1. It sounded like Grant asked the questions on discipline. It also seems like KS got increasingly annoyed. It also sounded to me like Grant asked the last question and KS blew him off with that answer. If I’m right about who asked the questions, it seems to me that Grant is in KS’ doghouse.

          1. Yup. Grant was pursuing something related to pass rush specialist(s) and a certain coverage responsibility (I believe), and Shanahan just said “pass rush” as he turned to depart.

            Love it!

            1. KS did not want to dwell on the fact that he lobbied JL to draft JW. In fact, KS demanded that they burn a fifth round pick so they could move up and select JW.
              .
              Colts picked Marlon Mack and Anthony Walker Jr. with those picks.
              .
              Of course, they could have avoided trading away their second- third round pick to the Saints, and had selected Alvin Kamara, who the Saints picked.

  43. Interesting factoid that may already been noted on this blog: The 92 plays that the offense ran against Arizona is the most by any Niners team ever in a single game.

  44. October 7, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    sebnynah says:
    September 23, 2018 at 7:30 pm
    Sometimes I choke on my verbal diarrhea.
    .
    Not a pretty sight I tell you.
    .
    Life is hard when you’re over 60 and have the mental capacity of a pigeon.

    Henceforth, I’d like to call this pigeon-hog day, after the movie. Except this time, a pigeon haunts my dreams, dominating my psyche.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSdlavyMszE

    1. TrollD, I keep telling you that some catfish stole my name, printed that garbage, and now you are using that to attack me.
      .
      Wonder why you are so desperate to diss me with lies?
      .
      Of course, you are the troll that fantasizes about breaking into gun safes, and creating nightmares, so your sick twisted mind dwells in the gutter. Please seek help.

  45. The turnovers and penalties are because of inexperience. That’s what young players do and part of the development process.

    1. Prime,
      Don’t use the (“D” development) word around here. People here seem to think that this teams young players should be pro-bowlers by now.
      Sheesh

        1. EC9,
          Not sure if I made reference to the Bill Walsh comment, but even if I may have, it likely had something to do with a full season in the books not 5 games where the team is at the moment.

          I’m sure glad that there wasn’t social media back in Bill Walsh’ first year as coach.

          1. Sorry if I gave you the impression rhat i thought you were comparing Shanahan to Walsh. I dont know, but it was part of rhe hyperbole surrounding this coach.

            My challenge with Shanahan is that he has been crowned a genious without earning it. If and when he does, i will celebrate him. But scrutiny is ok, in my opinion. That goes with the territory.

            1. “My challenge with Shanahan is that he has been crowned a genious without earning it.”
              EC9

              Absolutely agree.
              But I would venture that the very same people who gave Shanahan that label are now critical of him.
              Shanahan is still molding a young team to become viable professionals in the league.
              Mistakes are inevitably going to happen.

              Expectations at the beginning of the season from fans and local media were placed high for a team one year into 3-4 year building project.
              When I get frustrated with the product I see on Sundays my only comfort is to remember where we were just two years ago.

  46. I have a question, how would everyone rate Shanahan on the following:

    1) picking out players that would impact the team positively in FA?

    2) Identifying and drafting quality players to improve the team. I know that this really takes 3 years to fully evaluate but with the short cycle how does it look?

    3) XOs

    4) in game strategic decisions

    5) overall team preparation

    6) ambassadorship of team

    Same for Lynch 1) 2) 5) 6) and 7) management of team brand.

    I would rate KS as follows:

    1) C : while he has picked some decent players he has also whiffed on many too.
    2) C+ : I give him credit for finding people like Breida and Kittle, but he also picked Joe Williams who has never played a down.
    3) B : I think the offense moves the ball well but they have tremendous challenges in the Red Zone. I will say one of the first things fixes was 3rd down conversions. This has had an on the D in a positive way. The defense has been better than it was but it cannot make those critical stops (cough cough, pass rush)
    4) C – KS has made the team more competitive than his immediate predecessor, but he doesn’t always make good use of the clock or call plays that will protect some of his players I think this is a hotly debated area but I fall on the Hammer side of this debate. In the end, he has gotten the team closer but then Cleveland has been in an awful lot of games the last few years too.
    5) D+: Here I think is his biggest concern: penalties, mental errors, turnovers and poor execution while not entirely his purview is still part of his responsibilities.
    6) A+: He is affable, knowledgeable, and accessible. That’s why so many fans and media love him.

    Lynch
    1) & 2) C- : I think he defers almost entirely to Shanahan. He doesn’t have a very good background and the one player he did choose ST, well….
    5) C : conditioning I don’t think is where it needs to be. Players get injured and this is something he could easily do something about
    6) A : his background in broadcasting has helped here, and considering his predecessor…
    7) B : done pretty well but a lot of empty seats out there and he could do more to help Shanahan.

    Overall: KS: C+. JL: B-

    I would be interested in your take. Did I miss anything or evaluate to harsh or too soft. My gut tells me I’m being to soft on Lynch. And lest anyone forgets the Yorks get an F overall and individually. I won’t change this until I see substantial long term good work from them.

    1. He could be a liability…

      Zach Goodall
      @zach_goodall
      #Jaguars DE Dante Fowler Jr.’s career to date

      2015:
      -3rd overall pick
      -Tore ACL

      2016:
      -Lost starting job week 2
      -4 sacks as backup DE

      2017:
      -Arrested for simple battery
      -8 sacks as backup DE

      2018:
      -Option declined
      -1 gm. suspension for arrest
      -1 wk. suspension for fighting

      1. Yeah, he’s a bit risky, but his performance in 2017 suggests he might be worth the risk. Since he is risky we might be able to get him for a mid round pick. Given that we have virtually no pass rush, I think he’s worth considering.

        1. I’d feel better about it if the 9er locker room was full of hard-nosed, no-nonsense, proven vets–all on the same page.

    2. I wouldn’t trade for him. He’s a one year rental, unless you can extend him. And he would have no reason to accept a team friendly deal.

        1. They need to get their star edge rusher(s) through the draft. Really good edge guys very rarely become available as FAs.

          Any edge guys they get in FA will likely be part of a rotation (albeit probably still a considerable step up from what they currently have).

          And I am not precluding them getting Fowler in FA. I just don’t think trading for him now is really a great use of draft resources given he will be a FA at the end of the year anyway.

          1. This upcoming draft is pass rush heavy. Might be why we didn’t address it this past draft.
            I think when Shanny and Lynch took over they had a very detailed plan. These guys are smart, they know what they are doing.
            I think everyone thought Jimmy G would expedite things but there was always a lot of work to do.

            1. Did that plan include years when the draft wasnt pass rush friendly? I hope you aren’t suggesting that they knew two years ago that the upcoming draft would be pass rush friendly? You must think they are very smart and very omniscient!

              1. East that’s what scouts do. They know years in advance whose coming out, what positions are heavy and what positions are not.

              2. I don’t think they have that clear a roadmap Prime. They know certain players to keep an eye on but they keep working the boards as games develop.

              1. Absolutely. Like I asked Prime, maybe they felt that Chris Kiffin could free up the interior DL to mount an effective pass rush – but so far that hasn’t been the case.

              2. Cubus I think the 49ers felt adding a pass rush coach would indeed help but the horses don’t fit the carriage.
                Lynch is on record saying they tried in free agency and yes they should have done better in the draft but didn’t.
                Now they have the 2019 draft which is pass rush heavy to address it.

              3. I think you’re pointing out why some of us have those criticisms. They had the opportunity to go after them. They didn’t (for a number of reasons).

                Now they have to hit pay dirt for sure next year or their progress will again be stymied. I think some of you may be getting ready for that age old mantra: One more year!!

          2. Scooter:

            I wasn’t around during the draft. Did they draft Street with the intention of using him as an edge rusher? I checked his profile and North Carolina moved him from end to tackle in his sophomore year. The profile also indicates that he lacks length.

              1. Street has a lot of good qualities and should be a decent pick up. He was part of that formidable NC State line up.

                The challenge was that it was a luxury pick on a team that has no luxuries and can ill afford them.

    1. Was that Troy Aikman bringing up the the Barry Sanders comparison tonight Prime, while Saquon Barkley is doing his thing? Where have we heard that before? Oh yah, I think I might have used that comparison on this blog once or twice before. lol. In fact, I’m pretty sure I said Barkley would lead the league in total yards from scrimmage by his 25th birthday because he’s a better receiver than Sanders ever was, and as we’ve seen lately, RB’s who can run routes and catch balls like a WR, a la Jerick McKinnon, are a trending feature in today’s NFL offenses.

      Just imagine if the NY Giants had a better QB and OL?

      Where’s Razoreater when a guy needs a laugh at somebody’s expense?

        1. Sorry, I should have phrased it differently Prime, I know you were in the Saquon Barkley corner along with me.

          How in the world could someonLlike Razor have been paying attention to Barkley’s college career and not have recognized his rare talent?

          Strange!

          1. I think he just felt taking a running back that high should never be done.
            I am of the belief that WR’s should never be drafted in the top five. However, Barkley is a once in a generation type player.

            1. Actually Prime, despite the fact that the rest of world understood how good Barkley is, Razoreator said Barkley wasn’t even the best RB in last year’s draft class. lol, no joke!

              To which I said, enjoy the Saquon Barkley show because he’s going to lead the league in all purpose yards by the age of 25.

    2. The sad thing is that as good as Barkley played, the Giants still only put up 13 points. I think Barkley’s comparison to Barry Sanders is apt in more ways than you think.

  47. Matt Maiocco‏
    Verified account
    @MaioccoNBCS
    6m6 minutes ago
    The 49ers don’t play the NY Giants until Nov. 12, but they’ve already missed six tackles against Saquon Barkley.

  48. Grant, Michael Bennett has 6 sacks in his first three years. Thomas had 3 in his first year. Bennett is the player most pre-draft analysts compared Thomas to. How do you figure he has shown who he is?

  49. Watching the Eagles performance tonight makes me laugh even harder at “the 49ers have too many injuries to win” crowd.

    They have 5 guys out due to injury, in addition to 7 other notable players on the IR, NFI, or PUP lists. They only had to designate two healthy scratches.

    1. You’re seriously comparing the super bowl champion eagles roster, to the rebuilding 49ers roster? Jesus. Right now, Carson Wentz is better than every player on our roster. But you’re comparing these rosters. The depths some people go to try and prove a point.

      1. Eagles lose Mike Wallace to injury, they bring in Jordan Matthews.

        In 4 games, including tonight, Matthews has enough yards to rank 5th on the 49ers. He’s 26.

        Eagles were Super Bowl champs last year. With a backup QB. This year they have 7 of their top players out on IR, NFI or PUP and 5 others out.

        Despite that they find guys that they can plug in and go.

        Look at the moves they made before last season, coming off a 7-9 record that helped put them over the top.

        1. Ha ha, if Foles starts most of last season, the Eagles likely AREN’T Super Bowl champs Jack. Foles took over at a point in the season when the Eagles offense was already hitting on all cylinders and their record was 12-2, and just about already had home field advantage all locked up.

          Apples and oranges Jack.

          You don’t just replace your franchise QB, top RB and top WR with “plug and go” players this early in the season. Most teams haven’t even put it all together at this point of the season. Often times, good teams don’t get on a roll until week 5 or 6 of the season, especially when facing a brutal early schedule.

          1. I’m not comparing the 2017 Eagles to the 49ers.

            I’m comparing two teams with a lot of injuries.

            And either way, the fact that they had Foles on the roster as the backup in the first place shows why they keep completing and winning. They signed a veteran to backup their QB instead of going with someone who’s never done it.

            1. But before that they spent crazy money on their defense, traded a lot of draft capital for their QB, got a bonafide back in Ajayi and WR in Jeffrey. Took them about 3-4 years to become that team which means the 49ers are right on track!

              1. Crazy money on their defense? Meh, they still have over $10 mill in cap space. It’s called using resources.

                “Took them about 3-4 years to become that team”

                No it didn’t. They won a SB in year 2 post Chip Kelly.

        2. You’re about as bad as Seb with the constant bull$$$$… Like I said, your are comparing super bowl champs, maybe not 1-53 in personnel, but still the super bowl champs. That’s like comparing the pats from 2 years ago to the dang Cleveland browns. Wow.. Lil buddy, you are seriously trippin. Oh and even though it was 2 years post chip, they didn’t have a dead roster with chip. They had some damn good players. Some of whom, we’re on that Superbowl team. It was the matter of having a better coach. Kyle came into a Mike Nolan, Terry Donahue situation. Where the talent was bare and sorry. But according to you, a “good” coach would have this current roster playing at a playoff level. Vince Lombardi couldn’t pull off that miracle.

          1. “But according to you, a “good” coach would have this current roster playing at a playoff level”

            Nah. I never had this team in the playoffs this year, but I agree that a “good” coach would have this team at 2-3 or 3-2.

          2. Steele, one way I know that I am getting to a poster is when he starts hurling insults.
            .
            It is a classic move for some one who is losing an argument.
            .
            A ‘Good’ coach should know what -discipline- means. KS just admitted that he did not think it was important, and tangentially, just admitted that he is not doing everything in his power to instill discipline.
            .
            I expected better from you. I actually respect your football knowledge. Hope we can be at least civil.

    2. Well Jack, the Eagles are the world champs, and they were 2-3 coming in, despite a much softer schedule than SF, and they do have their star QB. Also, THEY ARE PLAYING THE NY GIANTS! It’s not so much the number of players as much as the number of KEY players. Franchise QB, first string RB (and now 2nd string), first string WR (and #1 deep threat), etc.

  50. Not to get political because I not in the slightest (I think they’re all a bunch of scumbags) but isn’t it interesting that these NFL coaches (And coaches and managers of other sports as well) are forced to do a press conference (Presser as it is apparently called) after every game and get grilled (A few good questions and a whole bunch of stupid ones) by folks who couldn’t coach a grade school flag football team, while the current President of the United States has not had an official press conference in exactly 602 days. Says a lot about our current state of affairs in this country. If Kyle or any other coach said stick it up your arse, no presser today, the consequences would be dire, and the whining by the press would be ear piercing! We put more importance on sports coaches explaining themselves than we do the leaders of our country! Where is the outrage? SAD! ;-)

    When did these post game pressers become mandatory and what is the penalty if the coach says stick it? Just curious.

    1. Naw, the league needs the press. Teams win and lose. Maybe you only want winning teams to give PCs.
      .
      It is part of the job description, and a losing PC reveals a lot more than a winning PC.
      .
      While I like KS being forthright and answering the questions fully (except for Grant’s), the substance needs a lot to be desired, at times. His side line demeanor and posture do not impress me. Too much hang dog.
      .
      If a sharp questioner can upset KS, imagine what an opposing HC could do.

      1. Seb-skov…………..

        You dont like KS side-line demeanor?? Too much hang-dog???

        Seb, why do you continue to have it in for KS? And then I immediately remember………..

        Must I remind you of Bill Walsh demeanor when the Cards came back to whup our 9ers many yrs ago??
        Im betting I dont………do I need to pull it up out of you-tube and show you his demeanor?? Im betting I don’t.

        These constant attacks on KS……….and then I remember why…………..

        1. Cat, I just watched the game. KS did not stand tall, and take the slings and arrows.He had a hang dog look because his favored team was losing by 10 points. He did not look happy, because his team beat themselves.
          .
          I have not mentioned who you remember, so I do not know why you keep bringing him up.
          .
          At 1-4, KS is not above reproach. If he was 4-1, I would not be criticizing him, I would be praising him.
          .
          However, since you brought up Kaep, I will say this. KS is content to go with a second year QB with a 1-6 record, 8 TDs, 10 interceptions with a 72.4 QBR. Kaep has a 32-32 record including playoffs, 72 TDs, 30 interceptions, with an 88.4 QBR. Kaep is clearly superior to CJB. Kaep is a SB QB who has set playoff records, while the other guy, last game, was a turnover machine.

          1. Hahaha!!!!!!!!!

            Sebs, you squirrely dowg, you brought him up earlier…………WE BOTH SAW BILL WALSH GET PISSED OFF IN A FEW GAMES! I know you saw those games!

            What the He-l is that sickness called when someone keeps bringing up a hero figure, year after year—and then denies doing it? Theres a word for it, I know……….

            7&7 and Sebs………the one prompts the need for the other! Gotta love the Sebs and his slippery word games!!!!!!!!!!!

            1. Sebs-
              Heres my challenge to you-will you answer it? Or will you put your nose up in the air, show disdain and selectively “ignore” the challenge???

              Here it is………Show Kaps stats for his last 3 years in the league, thereby showing his growth as an NFL QB…….
              Or would you rather not………? The world is waiting……………………

              1. Saw, cherry picking stats is lame. I cite records. Nobody in the history of the NFL has run for more yards in a playoff game. Kaep is in in the upper echelon of QBs. I think his QBR is rated 17 best in the history of the game.
                .
                Saw, I discount those last 3 years, because those teams was increasingly terrible, and the defense putrid.
                .
                You, obviously, will not look at how Kaep got to the SB after only 10 games, and was one pass from returning. Too bad Baalke went cheap and dismantled a SB team.

            2. Saw, Bill Walsh is human. Certainly, he has shown he can exhibit severe frustration. I consider him a genius, not a God.
              .
              You seem to be the one obsessed about Kaep. BTW, John Lynch just apologized for the Niners omitting photos of Kaep, especially since he set a record for running for 181 yards in a playoff game against the Packers. JL stood tall, and it was the classy thing to do. Hope the photo guy got reprimanded for being so petty.

  51. Philly’s second string defense is better than our first. The two teams are about as equal as Alabama is to Sacramento State.

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