49ers training camp report, Day 7: Gabbert almost perfect

SANTA CLARA – Here’s who stood out to me during the 49ers’ seventh day of training camp.

THE GOOD

1. WR Quinton Patton. The best route-runner on the team. Consistently beats man-to-man coverage on the outside. Made four catches today during team drills and beat Jimmie Ward with a post route for a deep touchdown catch during 1 on 1s.

2. WR DiAndre Campbell. One of the top five receivers in camp so far. Caught every pass that came his way today. Made a team-high seven catches during team drills as the flanker for the second-string offense. Beat Keith Reaser twice during 1-on-1 drills – once with an out route and once with a deep hook.

3. WR Bryce Treggs. Made five catches as the third-string slot receiver, including three catches during a span of five plays.

4. TE Blake Bell. Made four catches, including a touchdown catch over inside linebacker Gerald Hodges, a complete a stiff in coverage.

5. TE Bruce Miller. Beat NaVorro Bowman with a corner route for a long catch, and beat Jimmie Ward with a crossing route for a short catch. Made four catches total. Seems like the front-runner to be the starting move tight end on first and second down.

6. DE Arik Armstead. Unmovable in the running game. Faced Trent Brown and Andrew Tiller during a 2-on-1 run-blocking drill and held his ground against both of them.

7. QB Blaine Gabbert. The best performance by a quarterback during this camp. Completed 23 of 28 attempts and threw two touchdown passes. Also converted three of four third downs.

THE NOT SO GOOD

1. WR DeAndre Smelter. Dropped a pass during 1 on 1s and caught zero during team drills. Watched the end of practice from the sideline with what seemed to be a minor injury.

2. WR Devon Cajuste. Dropped three passes and wasn’t fast enough to run under a well-placed deep throw from Jeff Driskel.

3. DE DeForest Buckner. Pushed around during the same 2-on-1 run-blocking drill Armstead dominated. Tried to slip around blockers, which made Buckner easy to move to the side, unlike Armstead who almost always tries to go directly through the blocker he’s facing.

4. DE Ronald Blair. Even worse than Buckner during the 2-on-1 run-blocking drill. Simply couldn’t hold his ground. Probably won’t play in running situations as a rookie.

5. ILB NaVorro Bowman. Beaten badly in coverage twice – once by Bruce Miller on a deep corner route, and once by Shaun Draughn on a shallow option route. Both times, Bowman was nowhere near the receiver when he caught the pass.

6. QB Colin Kaepernick. Completed 15 of 24 attempts (63 percent), but struggled in the red zone (no touchdown passes) and on third down, converting just one of seven opportunities.

    1. Watching the video he threw both in 7v7 and one was a screen pass to Simpson. I like reading muliple sites for their different perspectives, but Grant clearly wants Gabbert to win the job. And he counts 1v1’s which is not usually counted. Only used to make sure timing is ok. But 7v7 and mostly 11v11 are what coaches care most about.

    2. Niner nation said this about the same practice:

      First round pick DeForest Buckner continued to play on both sides of the DL. He suffered what seemed to be an elbow stinger but it didn’t appear to be serious. He was regularly double teamed out of necessity.
      •Gabbert had the better practice today completing 10/13 while Kaepernick was 4/10 and a fumble in 11-on-11s. Kaepernick had passes nearly intercepted by Marcus Cromartie and Kenneth Acker. Michael Wilhoite almost picked a Gabbert pass that glanced off of the hands of Carlos Hyde.

      1. Paints an even worse picture of Kaep. And the NFL really needs to augment the INT stat to account for WR-assisted INTs, like if you throw an NFL quality pass to your rb or wr and he wiffs on it, it tips off him, and a defender grabs it…there should be some statistical category to show that this was a receiver problem, and not that of the QB. Might change how some players are viewed, if just a bit.

  1. Hi Grant
    In your opinion what is Jeff Driskels most polished attribute as a quarterback so far i’m intrigued with this young man

  2. How have our two former 3rd round OL picks doing this camp (Martin and Thomas)? Both players should be coming into their own by now, but haven’t really even heard their name mentioned by any beat writers.

  3. – Hodges is supposed to be more athletic than Wilhoite. With Bowman (still) struggling in coverage, the defense could have the same glaring weakness it did last season. Anytime an offense wanted to move the sticks, it threw in an ILB cover area. How the ILB group in the 2017 draft?

    – Was Armstead always this much bigger/stouter than Buckner?

    – Been waiting for four “emerges”
    1) Which DB’s will emerge as the clear favorites to start outside?
    2) Which WR not named Torrey Smith will emerge as a starter?
    3) Which ILB not named Bowman will emerge as a starter?
    4) Which RB not named Hyde will emerge as the primary backup?

    And its looking like I’ll still be waiting. For several weeks.

    – Not surprised The Blair Blitz Project got moved on a 2-1. He doesn’t seem like a classic 3-4 lineman. I think he will specialize in pass packages.

    – Only a little surprised Buckner got moved in the 2-1. Maybe he’ll put more meat on his bones year 1 to year 2 like Arik. No matter what, he will have value as an inside pass rusher.

    1. Grant…
      – Was there any experimentation lining up Armstead or Buckner in the OLB spot?
      – How did Eli Harold look?

        1. They should have drafted one of the special talents who were available the last few years. TSmith is a number 2 receiver.

    2. “Which WR not named Torrey Smith will emerge as a starter?”

      Well, this is now three straight excellent days from Patton, who has consistently been playing with the 1s at left WR. At this point it appears he is clearly separating himself. But I guess if you belong in the group that has written Patton off then what you meant was which of the WRs will emerge and supplant Patton?

      1. I’m happy for Patton but he still needs to demonstrate emotional maturity on the field. No that doesn’t mean he can’t be infectious with his passion and energy, just play smart and stay in control….

        1. If he starts to consistently make positive plays you’ll be amazed how quickly people forgive the minor transgressions. Funny how nobody talks about the stupid penalties Boldin gave last season.

          1. Yea, Patton’s no Boldin and if you were at my house, you’d have heard me yell every time Boldin cost the team by pushing the limits of the referee’s patience….

          2. Funny how nobody talks about the stupid penalties Boldin gave last season.

            I seem to recall many fans talking about those dumb penalties last season.

            1. Sure, we all talked about it at the time. But forgotten now. Now Patton is the undisciplined player that cost us games.

      2. Patton looks like the starter opposite Smith at this time. What I’m really looking for (and should have originally stated) is clarity among which WRs will make the 53.

        I’m not in a camp… WR, QB, DB or otherwise. If it’s Patton, good for him.

      3. Maybe. There is quite the history of ‘practice players’ at WR who do well in practice but fail when it’s game time.

  4. To: Seb, Razor, Rocket, and Kap Fans
    From: Matt Barrows

    Barrows confirs QB stats:
    One practice will not decide the 49ers’ quarterback competition. But Blaine Gabbert had a decidedly better outing during Sunday’s session, which was a long, fully padded practice that followed a light session on Saturday.

    Gabbert was 9-11 during the team periods, leading the 49ers on an eight-play drive in his final set of snaps. That drive culminated in a touchdown throw to Jerome Simpson along the sideline. Gabbert was 11-12 in seven-on-seven drills. Most of those throws were short,

  5. Cam Inman
    ‏@CamInman
    #49ers notes: Armstead, Buckner sustain apparently minor arm issues; Kaepernick struggles; Reaser ends strong

    SOME FANS VIEW OF QB COMPETITION:

    LossyP
    ‏@LossyP
    @CamInman as much as I want to see the guy succeed, I feel like I haven’t heard many positives on Kap to far

    1. Colin Kaepernick struggled with his accuracy and precision in team drills, most of which involved short, horizontal throws.

      He completed just 4 of 10 passes in 11-on-11 action, and nearly had two of his final three throws intercepted by Keith Reaser. Kaepernick also fumbled on an apparent hand-off attempt to Shaun Draughn.

  6. Good for Gabbert! That hybrid linebacker role by Tartt remains an option on obvious passing downs, but does O’Neil take advantage or do we watch backs like Vereen beat them like a drum all year again?

  7. Good for Campbell, he was a real dark horse, to say the least, to make the final roster, he must have really been putting in that work over the offseason.

    Grant- what is it that makes Campbell stand out above the others? (Route running, hands, physicality, etc)

      1. Thanks Grant. Sounds like he’s what Smelter was supposed to be. He still got a ways to win that last spot, it will get real interesting.

  8. I wonder if Blair, who seems undersized for the line, would be convertible to LB so we can move Brooks along with his attitude, criminal behavior and salary?

  9. Whaaaaaa-utt? HoF Game might get cancelled an hour before? Worse than Levis’ turf? Didn’t see that coming.
    (The network is going to be just a tad p.o’d!)

    1. While there was some teething issues at first, that was sorted out pretty fast. (And, FWIW, since I’ve been around the block, no it wasn’t even slightly unusual in a new stadium.) It got sorted out and by the time the Superbowl came the NFL’ s head groundskeeper said:

      “I’m an 87-year-old man and I’ve been in this game for 74 years and been to 50 Super Bowls,” Toma told CSNBayArea.com’s Matt Maiocco on Wednesday. “And I thought this was the second-best sod we’ve had at a Super Bowl.”

      It’s the press which likes to massively over-blow things and the whinging fans who then take it to 11. And continue on, no matter how stupid it is, like it’s the same today as at first.

      1. Much like the heat issues. First off, deal with it, there are other stadiums in the NFL worse off than this (imagine how bad it was for the small Card fans back in the days of Sun Devil Stadium…or ASU fans who still deal with it).

        2nd, the NFL has adjusted and the first day game in Santa Clara this year is October 2nd.

        3rd, these are probably “fans” who have yet to even go to a game at Levis that do the most complaining. They are bitter SF fans who probably never went to games at Candlestick either, because if they did they’d realize the parking and traffic issue is WAYYYY worse than it at Levis, there were games that were extremely hot (SF v Dallas in 2011 was 90 inside the stick).

        1. Deal with it? lol Ok homey. Let’s sit you down in the center of it for a few hours and see how it adds to your enjoyment of the game experience while your fork over Jed’s overpriced rates for a seat. Maybe you should stay on the couch, keep your yammer shut and let the people who suffer through it have their say.

            1. Some folks sure take themselves and their opinions soooooo seriously……… It was a joke for goodness sake! A little throw-away associative tease about a subject that has been in Bay Area news in the past; turf. If there was a power outage or an earthquake there would associations with the Stick, followed, I guess, by railings from armchair philosophers, football experts, and ‘proper’ fans against us “whinging” fans. Have a snickers bar. Buy one at Levi’s; $12.95.

              1. Bro – most of these guys are new or irregular posters, they don’t understand the humor of the Tuna. By the way you can go down to 7/11 and get that snickers for $11.95…

          1. I deal with it everyday. I work not but half a mile from Levis, drive on Tasman, over Lafayette, as one of the many routes I take in the morning if traffic on 87 or 101 are too crazy, getting off at 1st street.

            I grew up in Santa Clara county, the 100+ degree heat, did 2 a days in late august in high school in 90 to 100 degree heat, so sitting in the sun for a few hours…in OCTOBER, is no big deal.

            Again, this might have been an issue the first year, an unseasonably hot September and October, but last year, and this year, and going forward, the 49ers will not be hosting any day games during September (they’ll probably continue to get that opening west coast MNF game that starts at 7) and then go on the road for the next 2 games, so their first true day home game isn’t until October, like this year. Normally Octobers in Santa Clara, et al, are highs of mid-80s…how about we see how bad this October and season go before we continue this nonsense.

            1. “I came home super sun burnt,” said Gabe Hernandez, a 30-year-old fan from Roseville. “Me and my friend only lasted one quarter until she tapped out to get out of the beaming sun. I miss the ‘Stick.”

              The stands were half-empty by halftime and almost completely vacant by the end of the game,

              The most serious call came in the third quarter, when an older man in section 221 collapsed and suffered a cardiac emergency, which is usually caused by a heart attack.

              It’s unclear if the heat contributed to his death,

  10. I am very concerned about the run D.

    Glad for Patton but is this just early camp Kyle Williams treatment. Seen it before. Every year a WR makes an incredible catch or is explosive off the line and suddenly he is deemed the next star WR only to not be that during the regular season. Other preseason WR MVPs have included: Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Austin Collie, Chad Hall, Jerome Simpson and now perhaps Patton.

  11. A nation mourns. There will not be a Hall of Fame game due to unsafe field conditions.

    Now if we can get the same grounds crew to do the Pro Bowl it would be a great leap forward for the sport of football.

    1. Well, they kinda do…….
      Matt Hasslebeck just said on ESPN that the US Women’s Soccer Team players refused to play on the same Honolulu field that hosts the Pro Bowl.

      1. Sorry BT. I didn’t see you already posted about the HOF game. Good for the USWST. I hope the next CBA makes por bowl an honorary designation with no game.

        1. I’ve thought that the players like the honorary get-together, but not the injury risk. I wonder if you bring the guys together for some non-contact competitive events. Conference vs conference
          -sprint medley relay
          -50 yard tractor tire flip, like Strongest Man comp
          -sand volleyball
          -“Firemen’s carry” relay races
          – bean bag (non injurious) dodge ball
          -team dance-offs; freestyle and Hula divisions
          -horseshoes and/or bocce ball
          – 11 vs 11 tug-of-war
          Yes, hahaha! Set it up in the stadium and run a bunch of stuff simultaneously like a 3-Ring Circus. It would be fun for the guys, marginally entertaining for local fans, no worse than most of the schlock already on tv, and considerably better than the status quo. Write your congressman.
          Uh, no, on second thought don’t bring those turkeys into it.

  12. Not worried at all about Buckner. I am sure in the (De)Forest of NFL bodies I am sure we are going to see the Buck(ner) standing tall and proud.

    1. Holding up to double teams was a known issue. He is very good vs the run otherwise. It will be fun watching the Bucksteads develop.

      1. Brodie can you imagine if they both require a constant double team? Its almost scary to think about. Then add a blitzing linebacker it would seam that the opposing offense would be really hampered. I know its early but I just see good things happening with the Bucksteads.

        1. If defenses try to double team both on run plays, its a good numbers situation for the defense. Subtract 4 O-lineman, the QB and RB. That leaves 5 blockers for 9 defenders. I’ll take it.

          A more likely scenario is they double-team Buckner only. Still a good numbers situation.

          They might work Buckner in like Armstead last year. Put him in as inside pass rusher. He kills guards.

      2. Won’t be after a year in the strength and conditioning program, and then you won’t have to imagine both requiring a double team….

      3. + 1 Brodie.

        Another guy whom a full off season’s worth of nutrition, weight training, and conditioning, is Ronald Blair. I am hoping to see him playing at a solid 295 lbs next season. Buckner strikes me as a guy who’s frame can easily handle another 10-15 pounds worth of muscle and bulk without slowing down. Plus, you know when a DL is as tall as Buckner, leverage is absolutely critical. So I expect DeForest to command double teams next season as well. The twin towers are the type of young talents you can build a defense around.

        1. I think O’Neil’s putting guys in less than ideal spots to get an idea of how they should be used. The coaching staff’s still in assessment mode, and needs to gauge weaknesses too.

          I’m not sure Blair’s pegged to be a standard 3-4 lineman. Seems like he’s pegged to be a disruption specialist that hist gaps like a 4-3 guy. Mostly passing situations.

          One of the 49ers biggest issues is stopping 3rd-and-long runs. If a team runs a draw, screen or QB scramble, Blair moves well enough in space to run the play down. Some even thought Blair might be better suited to 4-3 MLB.

          And if its a pass, he has a knack for slicing into gaps with low pad level. Funny, he lines up over one gap, but quickly shoots an adjacent gap.

          Blair is a 3-4 “mis fit” in the literal sense, but that could be a good thing.

  13. I read that DWhite threw a key block to spring Simpson on a screen. Nice to see the young guys showing effort and attention to detail.

  14. LOL, Grant is trolling us. Kaep is up, Kaep is down.

    According to some posters, a bad review automatically makes him a bust, so Of Course, now Buckner will be cut on the team bus.

    Chill. Its TC. Better to find weaknesses here and correct them, than be unprepared and under perform. For every good play by Gabbert, it was a bad play for the DB. Maybe Grant should have presented an even assessment by talking about all the completions, and why the DBs allowed so many. Maybe they were short checkdown passes that were hard to defend and easy to complete.

    Cant wait til the 14th. Eddie sure inspired me. I hope they can get pressure with only 4, so 7 can cover the field. The less blitzing, the better the results when it came to a Fangio Defense. Niners need to learn from that, and also be dynamic and unpredictable. They should copy the Bronco system, but play Niner football.

    Grant, thank you for painting a picture. We are lucky to get your insights, because I think they balance out the Barrow’s and Maiocco’s. It must be fun and fascinating to cover this TC, there are so many story lines. I am getting more optimistic by the day. If Gabbert is looking good, Chip has a bountiful situation, and both could help each other because it will be a long season, with sundry bumps and bruises. If Chip can get both QBs to be firing on all cylinders, it will create a two headed monster that will give DC’s nightmares.

    1. Don’t let them see you sweat Seb. The nerves are starting to show with each passing practice.
      The storm seems to be on hold for now. We will know more next week. Stay tuned green thumber!

              1. Kaep is making 2012 throws, not 2015 throws.When Kaep rolled left, squared his shoulders and delivered a strike to Hamm, that looked like vintage Kaep.

                Chip will unleash Kaep, and with a stout O line, Speedy WRs. good blocking TEs and a healthy Hyde, Kaep is poised to take the league by storm, again.

                Just like you said.

              2. You have failed to answer the question Seb which does not surprise me since all Kaepernick believers are sacred to address the real issues.
                Have you been to training camp, are in you position group meetings watching film? How can you admit to seeing CK make 2012 throws? Seems like you have blind faith, or is that just stupidity?
                No one, not even you can or will attempt to address the skills CK lacks because they are unteachable. Not even Chip Kelly with all his innovation can shade accuracy, precision, leadership, decision making.
                Keep rewinding and playing that 2012 will come again along with a storm. It wont be long before your tune will change and that egg will be so nice on your face. Its starts Aug.14th, get your umbrella and storm equipment ready!

        1. Seb, I’m not sure how huge AD being back is. He’s the kind of guy who can pick up tomorrow and leave. Also, his playing close to 400 lbs year before last was a sign they couldn’t count on him then. I can’t take him seriously. If Trent Brown continues to improve, he needs to be the guy. Put Davis on the bench.

          1. Hey George, long time no see. Hope you are doing well.

            I beg to differ. AD played how JH wanted him to play. Downhill smash mouth road grading.

            Chip wants a leaner, meaner, more agile tackle. I think he will try to emulate Walsh, who took the Cross, Ayers, Quillen and Farnhorst types. Quick, smart nimble.

            If Brown out competes AD, I agree. Let him play. However, if they put Beadles at LG, and Garnett at RG, with Brown at RT, there would be 2 veterans on the left, and 2 young players on the right. Might be better to have a veteran help a young player. If AD is RT, he could help Garnett. Maybe even slide Brown inside at RG so the right side would be Brown and AD.

            1. You make a good argument, Seb, but I don’t trust AD. It’s not a matter of national security, though, so let the chips fall where they may. I hope it works out they way you suggest. Doing fine, btw. Thanks.

              1. George, we all miss ya. Hope to see more of your posts.

                I can see your hesitation about AD. Those tweets were not smart, or classy. Glad they worked things out, and it was reassuring to see AD start with the third string without a peep.

    2. Seb, you typically are rational………….until you start talking about Kap. Then, all rationality flies out the door.

      Their aint gonna be no two QB system. It may take all year………probably not…….but one of them is going to be a second stringer.

        1. An owner like Eddie D? A GM that does not have FAs avoiding the Niners like the plague? An OC that does not call all the negative plays?

          We also need fans who are not constantly negative and predict 2-14 seasons. Fans who do not denigrate the last QB to lead them to a SB. We need more fans who profess their love for the 49ers and hope they win multiple more rings.

          1. Cant really blame the fans, Seb. You look at Yoralke’s body of work–how non-football people are making huge decisions, and still are–u look at the giant salary cap that surely could have been used to good effect (i.e. Denver)………
            I honestly believe many of us would have done a better job. Until Jed and his old man GET OUT of the football part of the business, to a large extent, 9er fans are doomed. That’s a miserable thought, but its reality. Baalke gone as well.

              1. So did anyone notice that Eddie D. had but the most cursory of mentions of the current 49er regime nothing about carrying on the legacy, silent on that front. The exclusion of his comments to me were a serious indictment of the current ownership structure of the team.

              2. East, I did not care about the omission. Eddie covered so much, and this honor was about him, not the team.

                I must admit, I shed a tear when Eddie talked about Bill.

              3. EastCoast9er,

                The current regime took the team away from Eddie, didn’t they? I’m pretty sure Eddie D would hate the current regime, no matter what.

              4. Ex,

                No that little tidbit is not lost on me though this event was an opportunity for reconciliation with the NFL and the 49ers (present). Seems like only one occurred.

              5. EC9er,

                There is only reconciliation when both parties want it to happen. I don’t believe Eddie D wanted it to happen. The Yorks haven’t done anything to encourage it (No Carmen Policy in the 49er HOF – dick move and something that has to piss off ED). So why would you expect such?

              6. I think it is more John York than Jed.

                Eddie gave Jed some advice- follow your own path. To me, that was a direct swipe at the meddling Senior York.

              7. All good points Ex. Had forgotten that sweet move by the Yorks on Policy. Seems they constantly want to rewrite history. My concern is how far does the apple fall from the rotten tree?

  15. I almost wish the practices were closed and we could just wait and see how they look in their preseason games because these hot today cold tomorrow reviews are hard to assign any real value to. Should I get excited today that looked good? Nope cause he’ll suck tomorrow but wait, he’ll probably be good again the day after so just hang in there.

    1. I find it amusing. There is so much variation in the reporting, one wonders if they were watching the same practice.

    2. Its always more fun overreacting to preseason games than practice reports. Glen Coffee = Franco Harris season is almost underway. I can’t wait.

      Seriously, I expect Gabbert to be a better practice quarterback. I think preseason games will be the primary decider in many roster battles.

      1. Considering that Gabbert took all the first team snaps and threw to his WRs before TC, I expected him to be ahead of Kaep. Seeing that the competition is close, is a testament to how much more improved Kaep is, who is exceeding expectations.

        1. Agreed. Gabbert should be ahead at this stage.

          Also most of these reports, no matter who does well or doesn’t, have to be taken with a grain of salt, as we dont know what the qb’s are working on.

          If a qb throws an interception on a fade route or under throws the ball, he may well be working on something else. ie trying to determine where best to place the ball for his receiver to fight for it, or if he can expect to drop the ball on some routes between a safety and corner. These “mistakes” must be made now so they know if they can make those throws in games.

    3. CFC
      You have a good point, but since we’re sponges for info, subjective and speculative as it may be, and people can make money providing it to us, we’ll keep getting it in 100 pound bags (you know, like steer….um…compost). The FF and FF betting scenes attract even more interest in the minutia.

  16. Before we get too wrapped up in day to day hot/cold QB reviews, here’s what we got. We got two below average, not-in-demand QB’s competing to see who will be Below Average 1, Below Average 2. It still looks and walks like a Below Average Duck. They will both get playing time this year out of “we gotta do something” strategizing. So no worries, we will all get to see plenty of both. Sigh.

  17. It looks like the Bosa – Chargers standoff is continuing and maybe even escalating after his mother’s comments. Should the 49ers try to trade for him? Many have said that we could use an edge rusher and I agree, but I’m not sure Bosa is the guy. We’ll probably need to give up next year’s 1st round pick and that would put the Chargers in a great position next year, while preventing us from picking a top QB. Still it would be essentially getting an extra 1st round pick this year. If we had a franchise QB, then it might well be worth it.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/07/bosas-mom-regrets-not-pulling-an-eli-manning/

    1. PFT has become the TMZ of the NFL.

      They aren’t trading him, it’s a ridiculous suggestion. Bosa will soon realize that his best option by far is to sign his deal and start playing football. Someone is giving him bad advice right now, sounds like it might be his momma.

      1. CFC,

        I disagree. It’s the Chargers that are causing the impasse from what I’ve read and heard. Bosa wants his bonus’ paid in the first season like all the other players drafted in his slot, and the Chargers don’t want to do it. There is also the offset language disagreement but Bosa has agreed to give that up if they pay the bonus’ in the first year. It’s the Chargers that are the problem; not Bosa.

          1. I agree Grimey. The kid isn’t setting any precedents with his demands here. Chargers are creating problems that are completely unnecessary.

        1. Im not taking sides in terms of whos in the right on the subject. Im saying that regardless of right or wrong his best option is to sign and start playing. Very unlikely hed get drafted as high after not playing for more then a year. He might also put off other frugle teams (chargers arent the only ones)from picking him high knowing hes willing to not play over contract details. Hell lose money going through the draft a second time, hes not losing money by signing with Chargers. Plus he can start his career now instead of waiting for another season and entering the draft under less then ideal circumstances.

          1. On the other hand, he’s probably the most talented defender the Chargers have. Might be a good idea to pay that guy.

          2. CFC,

            I don’t think his value would drop very much if he sat out a year. I also don’t see it affecting other teams views of him because they all know the Chargers are the ones trying to buck the trend with how they are treating him. He’s not asking for anything other than what players drafted in the same slot have received before him.

            Sure he will lose a year of salary, but he’ll also have one less year of wear and tear on his body. There is also the fact that if he gives in, he loses money in interest and investment by not having the bonus up front.

            As I said below I don’t think it’ll come to that, but I understand why he is not agreeing to their terms. If the Chargers are intent on forging a negative relationship with their top 3 pick right out of the gate because they want to potentially save some money down the road, then shame on them.

    2. After the Crabtree rookie holdout of 2009, I think its best the 49ers stay as far away from a situation of that nature as possible

  18. cubus

    No…No…No……!

    What we don’t need is another greedy holdout who doesn’t care for rules…Let’s just hold our cards and see what we HAVE now…I think that most of us are going to be pleasantly surprised…

      1. With all we know about football, and how playing it destroys the human brain and body, no reasonable person should ever call a player greedy for holding out.

        Yes they have the opportunity to make millions of dollars, but careers are short and the aftermath is painful. Show some respect for the sacrifices made by these men for your entertainment, and remember, those billionaire owners sacrifice nothing.

        1. They aren’t withholding money. He’s not getting any less money he just isn’t getting it all at once. In consideration of the fact that he might not be all that amazing his first season it’s not out of bounds for the Chargers to want to keep the carrot in front of the young player.

          1. If the signing bonus is fully guaranteed regardless of if some of it is deferred, I see no good reason for the Chargers to be this stubborn about it. Honestly, who cares if they pay him now or later? Its a pretty petty thing to let escalate into a holdout.

            1. Maybe Bosa didn’t do the offseason program/work he was instructed to do. This isn’t just about money and wether the Chargers want to pay him.

            2. It makes perfect sense to not dole out a heap of money to an unproven rookie. Being stubborn doesn’t mean it’s isn’t the smart decision, it’s just the unpopular one. If the money is guaranteed then Bosa has no reason to not sign and get to work. Instead he’s only hurting himself by holding out.

              1. The deferred signing bonus money has to contain a clause in performance or training bonus. My guess is he doesn’t believe they are attainable or they are too team friendly and not in his best interest.

              2. “It makes perfect sense to not dole out a heap of money to an unproven rookie.”

                Its a guaranteed contract, so that money is getting doled out regardless… just not necessarily by the Chargers. They don’t want to give him everything now, because if they cut him and the offset language hasn’t been removed, the Chargers can get out of having to pay some of that guaranteed money if he signs elsewhere.

                I don’t really agree with the ‘double dipping’ inherent through removal of the offsetting language, but its pretty much par for the course now for high picks to either have that removed or get the signing bonus in full up front. If it wasn’t the norm, I’d agree with you. But why should Bosa accept less than what others in his position normally get? Given its the norm, the Chargers are being cheap by fighting it.

              3. But why should Bosa accept less than what others in his position normally get?
                ——————–
                Because sitting out isn’t a better choice.

              4. And having Bosa sit out is a better choice for the Chargers than meeting his request, which is a reasonable one given the market?

              5. Its a guaranteed contract, so that money is getting doled out regardless… just not necessarily by the Chargers. They don’t want to give him everything now, because if they cut him and the offset language hasn’t been removed, the Chargers can get out of having to pay some of that guaranteed money if he signs elsewhere.

                Bingo. Bosa has agreed to offset language if they pay the bonus up front, or deferring part of the bonus in return for no offset language. The Chargers want to defer the bonus and include offset. In other words, they are intent on paying as little as possible in the event Bosa fails. It’s really poor business optics not only because it shows how cheap you are, but it also belies faith in the player you just chose #3 overall.

                We haven’t seen draft holdouts since the slotting system went into effect, and that’s because teams understand they are on the hook for the first 4 years of the contract. The Chargers are already planning how to save money if they cut the kid before the 4 years are up. No way I’d give In if I were Bosa. There is a fundamental issue with what the Chargers are trying to do and if it meant sitting out a year and going back into the draft, so be it. I don’t think it’ll get to that point, but sometimes you have to take a stand when a team is knowingly trying to do things outside of the accepted norm.

              6. ” It’s really poor business optics not only because it shows how cheap you are, but it also belies faith in the player you just chose #3 overall.”

                Bingo.

              7. Agree 100% rocket. I really don’t understand why the Chargers are being so belligerent on this. Even if it gets sorted out, they have now created a bad perception in the mind of Bosa. Can’t imagine he’d willingly give them a home team discount in the future. And other players will be wary too. All so they may save a few dollars in the event Bosa doesn’t work out. With rookie deals being nowhere near as onerous as they once were, the potential saving we are talking about just isn’t worth it.

  19. sebnynah

    August 7, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    Prime, I expect a deluge. Getting AD back is huge. Maybe the O line will not be putrid like last year.

    I find it amusing. There is so much variation in the reporting, one wonders if they were watching the same practice.

    Fans,

    I agree that you have to judge the QB comp. during preseason games, and practice 11-11 is where you sharpen skill sets (progressions, etc.) in anticipation for the reg. season.

    However, and I’m just saying, at this juncture it appears Kap’s progression fundamentals show no improvement after years of Trent Baalke…But what do fans expect. This from a man who flails draft after draft away because he can’t distinguish offensive talent from a Rhino, then shields himself with his favorite phrase: “Well folks, we really have to see how they develop….Years go by, the Ronald Johnsons, AJ Jenkins, Lattimore’s, Dylan Thompson’s become busts, but Baalke and Seb stand by their busts…Seb’s actions speak louder than his words, folks, by supporting the Baalke busts Seb’s implying: In Baalke I trust!!

  20. –One of the notable battles during training camp is to be the third cornerback when the 49ers go to their sub packages. Chris Davis, who received the bulk of nickel reps with the starters so far, did not participate Sunday.

    That meant Jimmie Ward worked at nickel with the first team while Keith Reaser was the third corner in sub packages. Reaser had a good day, breaking up multiple passes, including nearly intercepting Kaepernick on the last play of practice, causing an incompletion on a third-and-long play.

    http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/07/49ers-training-camp-report-day-7-efficient-blaine-gabbert/

      1. 49ers re-sign ILB NaVorro Bowman (7 years, $77M; $20M guaranteed): D Grade
        Wow. Just, wow. I can’t believe how bad this contract is. Actually, wait, never mind. I can believe it, since this is the sort of stupidity we’ve come to expect from the Jed York- and Trent Baalke-run 49ers.

        It’s almost as if Baalke didn’t watch Bowman at all last year. Bowman was not very good, to put it nicely. He was absolutely abused in coverage, as he didn’t look nearly the same following his gruesome knee injury from a couple of years ago. Based on how he performed, Bowman didn’t even deserve a quarter of this contract.

        I was almost tempted to give this signing a Millen grade, but I think a “D” is more appropriate. That’s because it could work out. Perhaps with another year of recovery, Bowman will be more like the player he was in 2013 and beforehand. With that said, I don’t know why the 49ers didn’t just wait to see if that would be the case. Had Bowman played well in 2016, Baalke could’ve just given Bowman a similar-type contract in October or November. Rushing the deal was just stupid – and par for the course in terms of what the 49ers have done the past few years.

        Read more at http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php#1GwdG9LoYVEQrMox.99

        1. And “Par for the Course” as Seb’s Draft driver is bent on his rugby players–Hayne and QB–Kap in draft swings and misses over the years.

    1. Seb,

      Like Noah building his ark amidst his neighbors laughing and ridiculing him, are you building your Kap raft awaiting his “7 storms a coming???”

      1. The 49ers’ quarterback competition has been mostly even and, honestly, uninspiring. But Sunday there was a stark difference in play between Blaine Gabbert and Colin Kaepernick.

        Gabbert had the clear edge, working efficiently in Chip Kelly’s offense. He got rid of the ball quickly and led a touchdown drive during a game-like full-team session, culminating in a catch and run up the left sideline by Jerome Simpson.

        In seven-on-seven drills, Gabbert found tight end Blake Bell for a 20-some yard touchdown pass over the outstretched arm of linebacker Gerald Hodges.

      2. TrollD, even when you try to disparage me, you fail miserably. Noah was pretty smart, even prescient, so if you want to compare me to him, that is fine with me.

        TrollD, you are part of those who belittle and criticize, but when the storm came, they were drowned like rats.

        I am hoping for a storm and flood of biblical proportions.

        1. Seb, my 2 cents (fwiw): Don’t swallow the troll bait and don’t feed the troll. Just scroll past him like everyone else does.

          1. Adu, I have been studiously trying to ignore him, but he keeps bringing up my name, or tries to be cute and types _EB. Frankly,I feel like my only recourse is to make him look so pathetic, I drive him from this site.

            Of course, it would be a lot nicer if Grant puts down his foot, and tells TrollD to knock it off. If TrollD will just stay off my posts and stops addressing me, I will be happy to ignore him. I know what TrollD is all about. He is such a miserable person, he can only feel better by tearing down a player, owner or fan.

            TrollD is the spy, the Wormtongue, sent to create disharmony and spoil it for everyone. I may disparage certain people or things, but deep in my heart, all I want is to see more Lombardis.

            TrollD is unrelentingly negative, and his asinine comments and unending cutting and pasting, does not bring a thing to this site. I may say some very improbable things, but never have I said that My opinion is the only one that matters, and many times, I have conceded points or gracefully admitted being wrong.

            TrollD sounds shrill and hysterical. He epitomizes the fool on the hill, and I do not take fools gladly. I will try very hard to ignore him, but expect other posters to slap him down if he starts engaging me again.

            1. “I have been studiously trying to ignore him”

              If that were a true statement then you would not know that you were mentioned in his post.

              1. Even while scrolling past, it is hard not to see my name constantly. Notice that I have not addressed 99% of his posts? I do scroll past and do not waste my time trying to read his gibberish.

                If they had a proper edit feature and site controls, I could be free from temptation, and be blissfully unaware that he has posted ad infinitum.

            2. Sounds like someone is under Sebnnoyings skin? Remember Seb, dont let them see you sweat, be like Razor, cool and calm!

              1. Prime, TrollD is like an annoying fly. one good swat takes cares of it, then all’s good. Certainly nothing to work up a sweat over.

                Still sweating over the bet? Still afraid to bet lil’ ol’ me over an avatar? I consider that a gentlemans’ bet, but sportsmanship is not one of your longsuits.

  21. May Jed one day see this…Social Media Exploding:

    Deion Sanders
    ✔ ‎@DeionSanders

    Eddie Debartolo was 1 of the best owners I’m all of sports. His love,his passion,his heart,his kindness & his generosity is legendary. TRUTH

  22. If this QB comp ends up with Gabbert wil Kap be satisfied with backup role or will trade be imminent? Or will Chip find creative ways to “SLASH” Kap?

  23. Sad state of affairs that Colin will not / can’t beat out Gabbert….sad!! Kap will probably be out of the league at this time next year although some team might kick the tires just to see. Bow will get destroyed in pass coverage. It appears that lb will be the weakest position on defense & qb on offense, followed by untested wr’s.

    1. Yup, go root for the Raiders. Seems like you have an affinity for losers. Predict doom and gloom all you want. With the Raiders, you will probably be correct.

      However, the Niners have recently been to 3 straight NFCC Games and one SB. With Chip fixing the coaching, they are poised to come storming back.

      Kaep out of the league? LOL John Elway invited Kaep to his home, so there is one GM who recognizes Kaep’s potential. I will take John Elway’s assessment over yours any day.

    2. Kap will go to the same team (Tenn) that hired Hayne. Our 49er blogsite will hand out the anesthesia for traumatic Seb syndrome.

      1. Man, you guys are killing me!! I feel like I owe Seb the price of admission, cover charge, something! Very, very funny………….

        Seb-ster, im going to give you a word of wisdom, and im not being sarcastic—–Do not bite on every provocation!!!! Once you do, they got ya…….

  24. 3 straight NFC games…that is ancient history, a different team and no relation here at all. Seb, how do you link the past and current, Kaep? No linkage sad to say. Plus, Elway saw a backup with starter experience, that’s why he invited Kaep and offered him decent backup money. The only reason, and he wanted draft picks from Trent.

    Guys, it’s a Below Average Duck competition, fer F’s sake. Both Ducks will play, pre-season and reg. season, both Ducks will exhibit full Below-Average capability. Chip will be knocking on Trent’s door (he probably already is) to get him a viable QB.

    1. Surprised he didn’t bring up the Bears game on MNF or when the Niners players NE in Foxboro.
      My point is lets see what happens in camp and in preseason and if indeed he cannot beat Blaine Gabbert out of a starting job, then let the tears flow away!

    2. Trent is NOT the guy to get anyone a viable QB………………..wouldn’t know a Montana from a Drunkinmiller.

  25. Seb,

    You compared ur self to Noah. If Kap wins out will you let us aboard the Kap raft?

    If Gabbert wins out I would let you aboard. But you would have to board with the VitaWater Sweepstakes Winners next to the Engine/Boiler Compartment on a 1,000 mile voyage to Loser Island.

    1. Clueless as ever. TrollD, YOU were the one that compared me with Noah. I feel like I am engaging in a battle of wits against an unarmed foe.

  26. I think it’s becoming obvious that this is will be a season where no QB starts more then 6 games each. Gabbert nor Kaep is the long term QB here. Both have major flaws in there game. Keep an eye on Driskel getting inserted in week 12-14 to see what they have going into the 2017 draft. If Driskel impresses he has a chance to compete for a job next year. I have a hard time believing either Gabbert or Kaep is here next year. Gabbert having the better shot as a back up. This is coming from a Kaep supporter.

    1. Ie, after Seb is found waiting in the parking lot for 12 hours looking for their (Kap & Hayne) autographs, only to find them at Benihana, interrupting their dinners for Selfies.

    2. This is kind of funny. I can guarantee that either Kaepernick or Gabbert will be back as the starting QB next season.

      1. I don’t think you can. Unless one of them starts longer then anticipated. I wouldn’t bet on it. Maybe I’m wrong. Would be nice to surprise people from that position. A former scout John Middlekauf watched them both yesterday and said that Gabbert is not a starting caliber QB. Said unless Kaep plays better in games he isn’t either.. Said there the weakest group on the team. Pretty disappointing!

        1. First off, the funny thing is you wouldn’t be saying this if Kaepernick were the one expected to start.

          Second, Kelly knew what he was getting into when he took the job in SF and I don’t see him wanting to play musical chairs at the position.

          1. Well first off Kaep has a history of being successful. You can’t say the same thing for Gabbert. Now I understand they come from two different situations. That’s a fair assessment. With that said neither one inspires confidence long term. Gabbert looked okay last year. Nothing special just ok. That was the best football of his career. Kaep was bad last year no way around that. His worst year. He clearly had lost all confidence in himself and the direction of the Niners. That’s not a secret. In my opinion, they should see what they can salvage with Kaep. I think you cannot win many games with a Gabbert lead team. Let’s be honest here, if it wasn’t for bone headed coaching by the Atlanta coach and 2 god awful kicking performances by the bears and Rams. Gabbert does not win ONE start. Yes they won those games but they should of lost those. If Gabbert wins the job that’s fine. He deserves the opportunity. I don’t think it last long. If I’m wrong I will show up here and acknowledge I was wrong.. I’m good with that.

  27. Didn’t the Raiders want to draft Kap years ago.

    I have a trade pkg. proposal…. Kap, Reid, and Ellington, for Karl Joseph?

      1. After Reids 10th concussion this season, Reid follows AD and Borland, we’ll need to create more “Kap” space for Jed’s Silicon Valley Bash !!

        1. Like Reid, Joseph will eventually need to change his aggressive playing style if he wants longevity.

          I believe that Joseph is smaller than Reid. He reminds me more of former Colts Safety Bob Sanders who like Joseph, played with abandon and fury – and spent a great deal of time on the physicians table.

          1. When you have a strong run stuffing dline and LB’s that can tackle, you don’t have to ask your SS to make too many plays at the LOS.
            Hopefully DFo and Big Arik and Bowman can allow Reid to play away from the line and be more of a ball hawk then an extra LB.

    1. Baalke’s going to lose his job this year, and Jed unwittingly participated in the Baalke Welfare program. Baalke owes the Niners a solid, pick up the phone, lazy as-!

      1. I guess Seb went into hiding after Poppy’s right hook–Like Buster vs. Tyson.

        Down goes Seb, Down goes Seb, Down goes Seb, Down goes SEb.

        1. Now that you mentioned a trade, I have one, too. It is a multi player deal, too.

          Niners should offer Draughn, Patton and Thomas for Frank Gore. I want Gore’s leadership, even though he will have to share the load with Hyde. Gore could also eventually retire as a Niner.

          Gore may have one more year left in him, but they have been saying that for years. Gore can run, catch and block, so he could be a good fit for the Chip Kelly system.

          Indy would get younger at RB, add a solid pass catcher, and Thomas may benefit from a clean slate and fresh start. Its a win-win.

          1. For once I can agree, Seb.

            Gore would make Kellys first year as coach easier–as a backup.
            Don’t count out the rook, Kelvin Taylor who understands Chips spread system after 4 years in one.

            1. Tom of course you agree with that trade. You are as insane as Seb. Here is an idea, why don’t you both become Browns fans across the country, move in together and live happily ever demented?

            1. Gosh, Prime, where else have you heard about a trade for Gore? If it was from me, that was months ago.

              Since you want some new ideas, How about trading Patton, Bell, Rush Thomas and Cromartie for Bosa.
              A whopping 5 for one deal. Patton to replace Stevie. Bell because their TE is 35 years old. Rush is similar to Bosa. Thomas to help protect Rivers, and Cromartie because of the FA losses in the backfield.

              it would be like a second draft for the Chargers, and every Niner has some worth. It would be a win win for both sides.

              1. It would also free up spots for the Bubble players, and even create a vacancy so the Niners could poach a player from a division rival.

              2. Seb it’s post like this that are the equivalent of throwing a wet blanket on a hot fire. Thread killer, blog buster and most annoying guy on here you are. You never learn!

              3. Gee whiz, Seb, why don’t we trade our entire roster for Tom Brady, forfeit our first 4 games while he’s suspended, and then trot him out there on offense and defense, 1 v. 11?

              4. Prime, why are you so afraid of my posts? They will not hurt you, even though you act like they skewer your soul.

                Please grow up. I am making you sweat.

              5. Seb come on, you really think that trade is realistic for Bosa?
                Maybe a bag full of footballs and some mouth guards for CK would be better?

              6. JC, your football knowledge will be questioned when you postulate such extreme deals. Tom Brady does not fit Kelly’s system.

                My deal allows for more room to maneuver while obtaining talent that might help them win. San Diego will do better than just letting him sit and not help the team at all. SD was 4-12 last year and is in the same division as the Broncos and Chiefs. Both playoff teams and Denver won it all. Raiders had a good Free Agency and did OK in the draft, so they are poised to get better. SD better get better quick, or they will remain in the cellar.

                I want the Niners to poach a player from the Seahawks, Cards and/or Carolina, so they can get intel on the other teams that might help them win.

                Actually, Baalke took my advice by picking up Cleveland Wallace, who was on the Texans squad, who happens to be the Niner’s first opponent.

          2. seb, seb, seb……………Gore is an old Chevy with many, many miles on it. Look under the hood and you see a tired engine, worn out brakes and tires that need to be replaced.

            1. Funny, they have been saying that for years, yet Gore was 35 yards from another thousand yard season last year.

              1. So what? That matters in today’s passing league? By week 10 Gore looked like he was running in cement shoes!

              2. Prime, Like the Niners, Indy’s O line managed to play so poorly, they succeeded to let their QB get injured. With no QB, they could stack the box and dare them to pass. Gore had a terrible O line to run behind. Gore excelled even under those conditions. Indy drafted 4 linemen.

              3. Were telling the truth, right?

                Just a little after the midpoint of last year, Gore DID look like an old Chevy!

              4. And yet you want Gore back with an unproven oline here in SF, at age 33 and making 4 million a year?
                Seb you realize SF is rebuilding right? That means with young players. Not by trading away young potential for a once was product.
                Do me favor, open up your hand, look at it and swing towards your forehead and say “man am I dumb!

              5. No, with AD back, it will be like old times.

                If Gore is as finished as you think, maybe Indy will cut him and the Niners can pick him up on waivers.

              6. So if I think he’s done and Indy thinks he’s gone and they guaranteed to pay him 6.5 million already, releasing him makes sense for who?
                What is it Seb, he’s done and they release him or the 49ers trade him?

              7. Prime, just a little while ago, the Niners had 49.5 mill under the cap. Even with Bowman signing a extension, they have 26 mil, with all the draftees signed. Plenty of space to extend others but also acquire and pay Gore.

              8. What purpose regardless of cap space does it make to sign a 33 yearold back that they’ve already had? Add the fact they are in a 3 year rebuild and tell me how Gore makes sense? Is he even a good fit in Chips scheme without a full back?
                Leadership does not justify 4 million a year, trading any draft picks away and to a guy who wore down as the season went on. You can blame the oline and injuries all you want but in todays NFL old legs dont help this team! Oh and he never was a good pass catching back!

          3. I love the sentiment (Frank Gore is one of my favorite Niners as well Seb) but maybe its time for Frank to take a coaching related position at this stage in his career.

            1. If he is platooned with Hyde to keep both fresh and healthy, Gore could help them win. Gore may have less yards than a thousand, but if it results in wins, Frank would take those wins over any stats.

    2. TrollD, you are such a Raider suckup. That is totally favorable to the Raiders, but I cannot expect less from a Raider Toady who cheers the Raiders while predicting a 2 win Niner season.

  28. We don’t lose with lose with Joseph. Ellington’s injury prone, and Treggs basically had a 1,000 yd season at cal and can stretch the D.

        1. TrollD, no self respecting Niner fan also roots for the Raiders. Its in my blood. Considering you cheer the Raiders while disparaging the Niners, maybe you should join the black hole and leave us red and gold fans in peace?

          1. Tom and Seb…..give me a p.o.b. address!!!!!! I owe you guys the price of admission!! Your killing me–in a good way!

        2. Spoken like a true bandwagon fan. Yeah it’s ok to root for another team when your team sucks. And those teams are!
          Anyone playing the raiders
          Anyone playing the seahaks
          Anyone playing the Cowboys
          Anyone playing the Packers!

  29. When was the last time Baalke drafted a 1000 yd receiver. Diandre Cambell, another outstanding find by Baalke to help the QB:

    *2011 Washington Pac-12 WR 12 2 8 4.0 0 2 8 4.0 0
    *2012 Washington Pac-12 WR 13 16 167 10.4 2 16 167 10.4 2
    *2013 Washington Pac-12 JR WR 3 3 34 11.3 0 1 -2 -2.0 0 4 32 8.0 0
    *2014 Washington Pac-12 SR WR 13 24 231 9.6 1 0 0 0 24 231 9.6 1

    1. Seb, I’ll be cordial and turn the other cheek. I have posted Diandre Cambell’s stats. His best year was 2014—231 yards….Baalke is not helping Kap’s cause with low investments in the WR core year in and out.

      1. The reason Baalke has to invest low in WR’s is because he keeps redrafting o-linemen due to mistakes in previous drafts.

    1. I am a 49ers fan, Seb. They are my favorite “NFC” team. I have retyped this over and over, but you debate by denial.

      I like the 49ers so much that I even posted the Giants need a tackle–REAL BAD!

      To demonstrate how much my heartfelt devotion and appreciation of Eddie DeBartolo’s speech meant to me, I’ll now help the organization.

      Trade AD this year for a boat load of draft picks. Call Ron Wolfe, now Baalke–yes the ex-Radier, Green Bay GM to gain advice on how to do this. This would restock the 49ers with young talent for years, Seb, ok, convinced of my unyielding, undeniable loyalty!! GGGOOO 49ers in 2016!!!

      1. If the 49ers had traded Kap for all the draft picks I asked for by calling Ron Wolfe for help when Kap was a hot commodity + this Anthony Davis for Picks, can you imagine where the organization would be with an offensive saavy GM?

        1. Also, Seb,

          My father taught in San Francisco Unified School District for over 40 years. I’m a graduate of San Francisco State University.

          We lived in the Haight Ashbury, near Kezar Stadium. I remember the Chiiiillly December mornings, when the Pat Haden led Rams would pummel us 45-5, and paste the sports page to his truck.

          I am a true 49ers fan!

          1. TrollD trolling down the memory lane, thinking about 5-45 Niner losses.

            That is the difference between you and me. I think about the inception, when Joe led that spirited comeback against the Saints. I revel in the memories of witnessing The Catch, and not being able to talk for 2 days because I cheered so loudly. I remember taking the Binocs to the Stick, and focusing them on Bill Walsh, just to watch a genius at work.

            Those are the memories that were indelibly burned into my psyche.

            TrollD, you may claim to be a fan, but predicting 0-52 blowouts and 2-14 seasons just make you a farce, not a fan.

      2. TrollD, you predict the Niners will lose 0-52, crow when they lose and now predict a 2-14 season.

        With fans like you, who needs enemies?

          1. Here’s the thing, Seb–when was the last time this organization did a seriously smart move for the team? 2 smart moves, decided by the front office, in a row?
            Could anyone favorably compare in any way this front office to say, the Warriors? Giants?
            This ownership deserves all the lambasting they can get….and then a whole lot more.

            1. Jed has done 4 good things.

              He hired Chip Kelly.

              He let Chip decide to keep Kaep, so Kaep is still on the team, with fair competition to earn the starting job.

              He let Chip choose the first player in the Niner draft. Chip chose Buckner, a player he recruited for Oregon. If Baalke had his way, they would have traded back to get more draft picks or chosen an ACL pick.

              He slapped Baalke down for letting his emotions hold back AD, promoted Gamble and allowed AD to come back.

              1. The thing is Seb only point one is factually true. All the rest are conjecture on your part. We don’t know the dynamics of what made Kap stay versus him leave. It may have been Chip K. But it could easily have been Baalke and Kelly would have been happy to see Kap go. We don’t know.

                The second is entirely conjecture on your part based on the Chip K hire. Given the team picked Arik the year before did they call Chip for that pick too? No, Buckner was a good pick for the slot. Given the relationship he had with Arik and the background with Kelly it made sense as well.

                The last is sheer fantasy. AD has admitted that he was posturing and so Baalke’s actions seem quite reasonable. Given that he came back without a fuss I would expect that Baalke had a lot to do with that. The promotion of Gamble could not have occurred due to Chip at all. It was an internal move. It was probably in the works for quite some time.

                Kelly seems to have a tremendous amount of power and influence for a coach who has done nothing yet. Harbaugh had little influence and he got the team to the Super Bowl! How do you square that? It makes no sense to believe that Kelly a failed coach could possibly exert more influence on a proud organization like the 49ers (Jed and Co.) than a successful coach could.

              2. Sorry, East, but the very fact that Kaep is splitting reps with Gabbert is pure Chip. Kaep praised the coaching, especially Chip, and has not even talked to the FO. I will go to my grave thinking that Chip threatened to walk if they got rid of Kaep, because Chip realized that his best chance to win is to get Kaep on the field.

                If Baalke was in control, he would have asked Kaep again to take a pay cut, and stuck him with the third string. Gabbert is Baalke’s favorite, so he would have benched Kaep all year like RGIII, just out of spite.

                After all the leaks and smears, which were done before Chip came aboard, I was resigned to seeing Kaep flee this dysfunctional dumpster fire. Now that Chip has the reins, Kaep is back and AD is back, I have hope.

                I concede it is speculation, but thinking that Baalke wanted to retain the last vestiges of JH is wild speculation on your part, too. They even took JH’s statue out of their museum.

                The fact that they chose AA last year was more because Cowboy retired, and AA was their replacement. This year, everyone was clamoring for a QB or LB like Myles Jack. Even OL or a WR. It sure was fortunate that Bosa was picked by SD, and Buckner fell into their lap.

                The fact that Gamble was promoted, then AD came back the same day, is more than a fascinating coincidence, to me, but you seem to deny the reality, or possible reasons.

                You may be right, but I am comfortable with my take on the situation.

              3. Oh, and considering they had the JT experience, Jed realized and learned that coaching is important. Chip was a godsend to them, considering that Payton, Gase and Hue all turned them down.

                Chip is only a million times better than JT, and their bottom of the barrel coaching staff was so inept last year, they hired a DJ to coach Kaep, with disastrous results.

              4. Seb,

                A lot there, and I will only address the larger points as the others are rehashing what you stated earlier, I wouldn’t deny that Chip splitting time of the QBs is pure Kelly – he’s the coach. That’s what they do (kind of like that insurance company…) ;). The rest, as you rightly pointed out is speculation. Speculation isn’t fact. It’s a merely a thought on a subject matter. May be informed or not. Repeating it often doesn’t change its nature.

                Choosing AA was for a replacement of Cowboy but it does not negate anything I stated about the pick in regards to the Buckner pick which was the point.

                I think you are right that Jed realized there was more to running a team than having a great front office (his point of view, not necessarily mine). JT was a good coach (line not head) in a bad situation and in a no win situation. Chip may be a real ringer, but that remains to be seen. Many coaches avoided the organization and it may be Baalke, but it could also be that the lack of talent and better opportunities elsewhere had something to do with it. No one else was at Chip’s door either. Mutual need may not be a bad thing. Notice, I keep using the word “may” because I have no certainty of this and I am certain that neither does anyone else on this blog. No matter how often they post. ;)

              5. East I am glad we can disagree without being disagreeable.

                I have stated before that these are just my opinions. Many times. If proven incorrect, I will be happy to walk back my statements. I did not know I had to precede my remarks with caveats.

                However, I remember when I pointed out who was leaking (Marathe), and some posters denied that fact by stating that all I was doing was wildly speculating without a scintilla of proof. Now we find out that many sources attribute the leaking to Marathe, so while I initially speculated, it was proven to be true, no matter how many denied those assertions. When I surmise that Kaep asked permission to explore possibilities with other teams minutes after Marathe met with Kaep to ask for him to take a pay cut, then have other posters say I am totally wrong and declare that Marathe did nothing of that sort. All I can do is point out that Marathe is the lead financial contract negotiator, and I will flat out state that he did not go to the meeting to assure Kaep that they wanted him and offered to pay his entire salary. Kaep would not have asked permission to talk to other teams if that had happened.

                It is just plain fact that decent Coaches did not want to come to the Niners because they saw what happened to JH, and they probably thought that they would be fired after a losing season.To me, it sure seemed like they did not want to ruin their careers by coming here.

                The fact that decent FAs avoided the Niners like the plague, points directly at Baalke, and his stingy ways. Baalke may have wanted Kaep to stay, but when Kaep mentioned that he has not even talked with Baalke, the only conclusion to me is that Kaep did not want to be cut on the team bus. Chip will prevent that, and maybe I am reading between the lines when Kaep praises the coaches with effusive enthusiasm.

                I do admit that I post a lot, but usually, I am just responding to previous posts, that continually say things that I disagree with. I notice that posters have toned down their screeds, saying that Kaep needs to learn to deliver the ball from the pocket, and that he is incapable of making more than one read.

                Soon, the Niners will actually play football, so then all this speculation will end. From both sides.

                BTW, what do you think are Chile’s chances in the Olympics?

              6. We have no beef Seb. While we can disagree, I hope we can always do it with mutual respect for one others points of view. If you thought that I was harsh on the speculation front, I apologize. I simply wanted to emphasize that we merely are doing so. All of us. And while we may once in a while may be right, so are broken clocks, so that should keep all of us humble and make us recognize that if you throw enough spaghetti at a wall, some of it eventually will stick. Doesn’t make us Picasso though!

                I, like you, am looking forward to see what the 2016 version of the 49ers looks like. I hope they can return to championship caliber football. Not optimistic about the possibilities and you can read Rocket’s and other knowledgeable (BT, Razor, Scooter….) posters various comments to see the monstrous holes the team has and recognize that the team will have to have a lot of good things happen for them to be on the right side of the 50-50 equation. It can happen. I and all the fans do hope, but some of us I guess are glass half empty types (or like G. Carlin – the glass is the wrong size).

                I know you are passionate. I don’t think anyone ever has a problem with passion on this board. All of us should be mutually respectful and remember that everyone is passionate. If in the heat of the moment things are stated, try to tone things down, not ramp up the rhetoric. I’m as guilty as the next guy, which is why I needed to apologize.

                Chile is not a sports nation. We do poorly in the Olympics and until recently, soccer. But like all fans, we root for our people because we love them and want them to make a good show and make us proud. Sometimes that is all we can ask for.

                Can’t say I’ll be watching too much of the Olympics this year. The games don’t interest me much (I like the winter games better). Too many events and I am a bit busy anyway, so…

              7. All conjecture-you dont know any of this for a fact. And we dont know-yet-if any of those are good things. We dont know for sure if getting AD back is good either. It probably is. but its a roll of the dice.

                You realize, of course, that your grasping here.

                Take 3 guys on this blog that you think really know football, and you know they would make better football decisions than Yoralke!!! That may very well include you!
                Its not supposed to be that way, even remotely. Their supposed to be way better than us, and I see no evidence they are. Quite the contrary…………..

              8. Here’s the thing Saw, I agree it’s all conjecture. I wouldn’t presume to know football like any of the front office guys. The guys I mentioned were posters who post regularly and have been around for a while and I respect their take even when I don’t always agree. Their insights are worth reading. A lot of posters insights are valid and valuable. But to presume any one of us has more knowledge than those in the organization and can make better decisions I think, for the most part, is specious vainglory.

              9. East, a thousand apologies if you think I am in any way offended by your tone. You are actually the voice of reason, and maybe I was thinking about other posters when I made that comment.

                I agree, the Niners have a daunting task, and every other team spent even more money to build teams that will lay the wood to their opponent.

                I do not want to be a 19-0 optimist with rainbows and unicorns, but since Kaep is still on the team, I will not be a doom and gloomer.

                Jed acting to rectify the situation, and getting AD back, is huge. If the O line improves, the QB play may improve, and the RBs will not be gang tackled at the line of scrimmage.

                With 2 mobile QBs with similar skillsets, Chip can now implement fully his system. With a healthy Hyde churning out 100 yard games, the Niners will at least be competitive.

  30. Play action seems to help CK’s game. According to Biderman it looks like it might help Gabbert’s game even more:

    Using play action in ‘15, Blaine Gabbert had a 112.1 passer rating to Colin Kaepernick’s 92.0 per @PFF. Gabbert never played w/ Carlos Hyde.
    — Chris Biderman (@ChrisBiderman)

      1. Nice to see you posting again, George. Which “pony” are you backing if any? I think Gabbert has the edge. Someone said it earlier, maybe it was Scooter, but I hope whoever wins does so convincingly to give the team its best shot to have a decent season.

        1. Thanks, cubus. I’m betting on Gabbert. In fact several weeks ago I made a real bet with everyone on this blog. The bet was that if Kaep won the job in TC, I’d change my avatar to Bozo the Clown for a month, but if Gabbert won the job in TC, those betting on Kaep had to. There was a condition: The outcome could not be principally due to injury. Razor was the only one who agreed to the bet. I hope he remembers.

          1. George, Razor remembers and has referenced it in the last few days. I also took the bet. Now I just need to learn how to change my avatar to bozo since it seems CK isn’t clearly separating himself. Its hard to read the situation from the practice reports since they vary to such a great degree. I was the one who asked if I could take the challenge making sure both QB’s were healthy.

            If they both play the way they are at TC, I am not excited about either of them.

    1. EastCoast…….

      You think its vanity or narcissism to question these buffoons in the 9er front office? 3 different coaches in 3 different years? After 5 years of this front office, wheres the offensive talent, the playmakers? Do you deny that if you were as productive in your job as yoralke is in his, you would have been fired years ago?
      It has nothing to do with vanity. It has to do with results.
      I absolutely believe there are some guys on this blog who would have done a better job than York/Baalke.
      You know a tree by the fruit it bears, not what it says. People is positions of power, or authority, should be questioned all day long. The Yorks are clearly not interested in the product, just the cash flow…………..

      1. And its not the knowledge in question-its the judgement.

        The results are such that, clearly, their judgements are seriously bankrupt.

  31. Catching up on comments and I see “trade for Frank Gore”. Are you F’ng serious? A team in full rebuild trading for guy at the end of his career? By the way, what do Kelly, Gabbert, Kaep have in common? NONE of them is in demand in the NFL. Kaep had nowhere to go, Kelly had zero job offers. That’s what Jed and Trent got us. Garbage time personnel. Sad but true. Sorry guys, that’s the Ducks we got. Below Average across the board. What happened to our great franchise?

    1. Considering that I want the Niners to win, and win this year, Frank Gore makes a lot of sense.

      Hyde is injury prone, and we all know how the Niners struggled once he went down. Gore is a workhorse, and can both block and catch.

      Kaep had no where to go? Elway had Kaep over to his home, and I thought that Kaep was long gone, but Chip decided he wanted Kaep, and offered to give him his full salary and a fair chance to regain his starting job.

      Chip has done well where ever he has gone. NH, he was given carte blanche. He made Oregon into a national powerhouse competing for the national championship. In Philly, he took a 4-10 team and had them in the playoffs the next year. Maybe he can take a 5-11 team and do the same thing.

      1. Seb–they couldn’t come to a meeting of the minds to the Kap trade-thats why he’s still here. Kap wouldn’t take the pay cut.
        Kaps a great athlete. he’s not a great QB.

  32. Erick Rogers is gone….She’s gone, she’s gone, can you learn how to say our red zone threat is gone!

    Writers have noticed that pro DB’s stick to Cajuste. But at Stanford they used him at H-Back!
    Trent Baalke, Where are you dumbbell????

    Line up Cajuste vs linbackers at H-Back/TE and WALLA, your RED ZONE threat is back…Do something right for once and you have your redzone playmaker we’ve lacked.

    Also, when we get inside the 20, pull Kap from the game because with 22 people on the field, condensed by the endzone, there’s not a drop back, Kap can’t throw the touch pass over the linebacker in close quarters!!!

    1. Also, I’d like to propose a trade.

      The 49ers need a decent nose tackle. Trade Kap and Ellington to the Raiders for Dan Williams.
      Williams was a top pick by the Cardinals. Raiders could use a backup QB with the kind of experience on his resume kap has, so in the playoffs if an injury occurs they don’t lose.

      1. Almost forgot. For being so stupid and stunting Kaps reading progression growth with dumbbell coaches, the 49ers eat the salary.

        1. Also, if anyone can resurrect Kap’s career, Musgrave can. He played under Steve Young and made David Carr last year. It’s a WCO that Kap understands.
          Wouln’t it be great if Kap led the Raiders to a Superbowl if Carr got injured with Jed and Trent watching, as “the marching band refused to yield, do you recall what was revealed the day that Kap was traded?

  33. Devon Cajuste: Identifying 49ers WR Scheme Fit in 2016

    by James LeBreton 4 hours ago Follow @jamesplebreton

    In order to improve on their offense from last year, the San Francisco 49ers must get into the end zone more, and rookie wideout Devon Cajuste could be that guy. They need someone who can gain position in the secondary to create plays on third downs and in the red zone. A player of this caliber will not only fill a void, but it’s also a must in terms of getting this team back to the postseason.

    http://ninernoise.com/2016/08/09/devon-cajuste-identifying-49ers-wr-scheme-fit-2016/

  34. Every team has a blueprint.

    The blueprint is usually made after determining what was lacking the season before. The San Francisco 49ers are in need of a red-zone threat

    Source: Fansided

  35. Random Ramsdom 8/9: Goff Should Be the Starting QB, and Aaron Donald Has OBJ Hands
    By • Brandon Bate • @NoPlanB_ •Aug 9, 2016, 5:00a

    Goff Should Be the Rams’ Starting Quarterback | LA Times

    The Rams were bold when they acquired a massive chunk of land in Inglewood and planned a $2.6-billion stadium, bold when they seized a Los Angeles market gathering dust for two decades, bold when they made a historic leap up to the No. 1 pick in the draft.

    And they should be bold again in making rookie Jared Goff the starting quarterback.

    1. Your 2015 record: 5-11. I have to say, that’s a good three or four more wins than I expected after this team cut Jim Harbaugh loose, dropped their roster into a garbage compactor, and hired a burlap inspector to coach for a full season.

      Of course, Jim Tomsula was fired after all the bad things we knew would happen to this team DID, in fact, happen. I already miss him terribly. One season is such a brief encounter. I wanted three seasons of Hobo Whiskey making these faces on the sideline…

      And farting in the press conference!

      Oh, memories. Tell me it wasn’t worth losing 11 games to have your head coach openly fart out his dignity in front of a hot microphone. Jim Tomsula was the best show on television, and his bosses never realized it. SAD!

      Why Your Team Sucks 2016: San Francisco 49ers

      Drew Magary
      8/02/16 2:10pm
      · Filed to: Why your team sucks 2016

      160.9K

      1. I don’t think any coach in history has gone from genius to chump faster than Chip Kelly. Even Mike Martz had a short grace period before everyone realized he was a CFL coach in disguise. Chip discredited himself within a matter of minutes. He even ruined Christmas….What F—ing Ah—-

        He’s like a savant cop on a bad TV show, teamed up with a straight arrow who has to explain his social awkwardness to everyone else.

        Chip Kelly is a perfect match for this fanbase because he has the fraudulent tech guru routine down pat. Here’s a guy who combines the gracelessness of Peter Thiel and the officiousness of Mark Zuckerberg with ideas that sound futuristic but are ultimately worthless.

        Report: Chip Kelly Was Fired In Part Because He Messed Up The Eagles’ Holiday Party

        Holiday parties are a wonderful time of the year where you can get drunk with your coworkers,…

        http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks-2016-san-francisco-49ers-1784694100

  36. Seb, Kaep went to Elways to get backup money offer. He was not wined and dined. You missed this point somewhere. Elway figured hey I’ll lowball with backup money. If I don’t like him I’ll cut him. That was the deal. Sorry to have to report this to you.

    But you really missed when you said Chip offered Kaep his full salary. He didn’t “offer” , the 9ers HAD TO PAY IT. If Kaep sat on his couch all year he gets his money (minus roster bonuses but who cares if yer Kaep). The 9ers still could keep him off roster. If Driskell progresses, they put gabbs and driskell on game day, keep Kaep on ice. Stranger things have happebned.

    Kaep had absolutely nowhere to go, he had no NFL interest outside Elway offering lowball. Trent didn’t even get decent draft pick offers from JE.

    1. Max, Niners could have cut Kaep, and not paid him a dime before April 1st. Then Kaep would have been free to go to any team he wanted. Bet the Rams, Cowboys, Buffalo, Jets and several other teams would have liked to obtain Kaep with no strings attached.

      JE did try to lowball the Niners, but Chip wanted Kaep, so they demanded at least a second round pick. Considering that Goff took a couple first round and second round picks, in hindsight, that was cheap. Now JE has declared that Sanchez is ‘adequate’. Maybe with their defense, that is true, but it sure does not sound like a ringing endorsement. I predict Siemian wins the starting job, and MS gets cut because they do not want to give up a 7th round pick.

      1. Seb-9ers could have cut him, thats true. But Baalke figured on a trade and, yet once again, played it too cute.

        Your not going to put any silk on this pig, Seb.

  37. Grant

    Just saw that Lane Johnson (Philadelphia Eagles) starting LT will miss 10 games for PED use….I’m setting my clock to see how long it takes the news media in Philly to blame THAT on ‘Chip’….

    Jeffrey Lurie….you make Jed York look like Wellington Mara by comparison….

    1. You speak the truth Oregon… I thought it was hilarious when Pederson seemed to indirectly take a jab at Chip’s “no-tackle” practices, then goes and gets like 4 players injured on the 1st day of camp.

    2. I don’t know much about the inner workings of Eagles management, but I’ve never seen such venom coming from a team towards its former head coach.

      Paul Brown secretly trying to ruin Bill Walsh’s career ranks right up there, but it was a quiet assassination attempt. What the Eagles are is downright childish.

      1. There seemed to be a genuine dislike of Kelly by a number of people in the organization and some players. Hopefully he’s learned from it, but to suggest it never happened or he was somehow unfairly blamed is ignoring a problem he obviously had and was unable to fix. Good breakdown in this article:

        http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/chip-kellys-people-skills-a-large-part-of-his-undoing-in-philadelphia/

        I’m not taking sides here, just making sure there is an understanding that these accusations in Philly were real and affected the entire organization. It’s been nothing but positive so far in SF, and hopefully that continues because he is a good football man who has a creative mind.

        1. Good point Rocket… I don’t think anyone’s denying that Chip contributed to this perspective, but I think what Oregon was getting at, and I think most here would agree, they just need to GET OVER IT ALREADY AND MOVE ON (sorry for the all caps, just trying to get a point across).

          But its the media, and its philly, so I don’t expect much better.

        2. Do you think he got in over his head as a GM? Being a player manager at the NFL level is a whole other beast than college.

  38. EastCoast9er
    August 9, 2016 at 9:59 am

    Seb

    Speculation isn’t fact. It’s a merely a thought on a subject matter. May be informed or not. Repeating it often doesn’t change its nature.

    Agreed, EastCoast49er. No matter how many tmes Seb regurgitates his trades, or repeats his 1940’s playbook it still looks like regurgitated baby buzzard food….TomD

    1. TomD,

      You do realize that applies to everyone, right? By all means contribute just keep it civil, cordial and respectful. I’m sure you’ll find it’s returned in kind.

  39.  Grant Cohn Retweeted

    Niners Radio Show ‏@NinersRadio · Aug 7

    H.O.F game cancelled listen to @grantcohn & @NFLExporter from last week. Great stuff! click on link >

  40. For anyone interested in who the next Niner QB may be, Daniel Jeremiah is doing some scouting reports on NFL.com. Here’s one on DeShaun Watson. I’m not a big fan of Watson’s prospects at the NFL level and this report deals with my concerns. Great College playmaker; little of what he does translates to success at the NFL level. He could improve obviously, but he really needs to develop as a passer and learn pocket presence to be a viable NFL QB.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000666358/article/first-look-scouting-clemson-qb-deshaun-watson

    1. As a Florida St fan, who lives in Louisville, KY, I get to watch Clemson often. He’s a great player to watch and makes bigs plays in college, his game will not translate to the NFL. I also believe he’s too small to survive the hits he will take. He can develop and improve but he’s not the guy you want to be the future leader of the Niners.

  41. The 49ers, Denver Broncos and Los Angeles Rams are the only teams who’ve yet to declare their starting quarterback.

    Cam Inman Verified account 
    ‏@CamInman

    2:10 PM – 9 Aug 2016
    #49ers recap: QBs Kaepernic, Gabbert sharper but neither named starter yet for opener; Armstrong out of team drills.

    On Tuesday, Gabbert completed 10-of-12 passes in full-team drills. Of the incompletions, one was intentionally thrown out of bounds because of tight coverage, and the other was broken up

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