Win or go home. It’s that simple after the 49ers 34-24 loss to Buffalo.
Don’t buy it? Check with the coach.
“We’ve got four more games . . . and we’ve got to win all of them,” said Kyle Shanahan.
You know the calculation. The Niners were 5-6 coming into Monday night’s nationally televised game. Ten wins is a perfectly acceptable total for an invitation to the playoffs. To get to 10-6, San Francisco had to beat Buffalo and win the next four.
However, there were some optimists who said the team could lose one of the last five and still make the postseason.
They just lost that game.
Nine wins might get you in, but fall below that and it’s over. There’s not, as Trent Williams said, “a lot of wiggle room.”
Which means there are two ways to look at the loss to the Bills. Neither is very encouraging, but one is slightly better than the other.
The first, is about Buffalo. That’s a playoff team. The 9-3 Bills scored four touchdowns and it appeared they could have scored four more if they had the time. Postgame pundit Donte Whitner noted that at one point Buffalo scored on “six consecutive drives.” They dominated.
And it was a splashy coming-out party for Josh Allen. We’ve heard bulletins from Buffalo that the big guy was playing well, but this was a national showcase. His sizzling spirals hit receiver in the numbers and he was so effortlessly in control he took the time to point out a holding call to an official while scrambling away from a pass rush.
“He just had a game,” Fred Warner said. “We knew about the arm talent and escapability, and he showed that off today.”
So, the glass half full guy says, what are you going to do? That’s a really good team, and they, and their QB, were on fire.
The second take isn’t so rosy.
This is the standard for a playoff team. Remember, Buffalo doesn’t even have the best record in its division. Pittsburgh and Kansas City are 11-1. Cleveland ties the Bills at 9-3.
If you want to play with the big boys, that’s the bar you have to reach. There were several references to the concept of “matching” the Bills. Shanahan even said he hoped the game was turning into a “game similar to how New Orleans was last year.”
That 48-46 win in New Orleans has become part of recent 49ers’ lore. Jimmie Garoppolo threw for over 340 yards and four touchdowns and Drew Brees threw five TDs. It was a “we believe” game, convincing a lot of people, probably including some in the locker room, that they belonged with the best in the NFL. It helped propel them to the Super Bowl.
But that was then and this is now. It is unfortunate that we tend to brush aside the absolutely Biblical run of bad luck the 49ers have endured. Injuries, illness, bad breaks and a forced quarantine in Arizona have definitely had an effect. Without George Kittle, Nick Bosa, Dee Ford and yes, Garoppolo, this team is not good enough.
It isn’t that I doubt they can win. They can. But it isn’t going to be easy.
Shanahan talked about how “our defense has been, I think, carrying us all year.” And that’s fine, but the injury epidemic has suddenly hit the defensive backfield. Allen and the Bills chewed them up.
That puts the onus back on the offense and the idea of matching drives. The Nick Mullens-led offense couldn’t do it. They were 6-12 on third and fourth down conversions, plays that would have kept drives alive.
“We just had a few things that didn’t keep us on the field,” Shanahan said, “and when you do that versus an offense and a quarterback who’s playing the way they are, you don’t get it back for a while.”
At this point we’re supposed to pick apart Mullens’ game, explaining the nuances of his play. But you know what? I think he’s doing the best he can. Given a little time in the pocket, he hit Brandon Aiyuk with a long touchdown throw that traveled half the length of the field.
But there was also that bizarre sequence in the fourth quarter when, at “the one inch line,” in Shanahan’s words, Mullens got antsy while attempting a silent snap and essentially false-started himself. That moved the ball back five critical yards and on the next play he threw an end zone interception. On national television.
That has to be maddening. And there must be some pressure, however subtle, for Garoppolo to announce that his ankle is better, and he’s ready to give it a go. General manager John Lynch said in a radio interview that Garoppolo and Kittle had some terrific recent workouts. Was that a nudge? After all, every game now is basically a playoff game. Maybe someone will say, let’s put them out there and see if we can win this.
That would be a mistake if Garoppolo is not healthy. First, it would put him in the position of playing hurt. He’s already every rabid fan’s favorite piñata. If he limps out there and doesn’t play well, the noise will be deafening.
But also, it isn’t a good idea, long range, for the team. There’s too much smoke not to think there is some fire about moving on from Jimmie G. If that’s true, you better take a long hard look at what you’ve got before you cut the rope. And you better make sure you have something better lined up.
To do that you’re going to have to see Garopollo at his best. That’s the test. He won’t have a bad ankle forever. If you are going to send him out there, it is only fair to him, and to you, to do it when he’s healthy.
At this point I’d stick with the plan and say Garopollo and Kittle might be able to play in the last two games.
Until then, you’ve got your hands full.
We need a special quarterback to elevate this offense, and there’s four to select from. Pick one. I have my preference but pick the guy you’re sold on and go get him. I don’t care about, “ain’t no rookie quarterback ever won a Super Bowl” crap. There’s a first time for everything.
Defensively, until we get a pass rush our zones will continue to be easy money for the playoff caliber quarterbacks.
“I don’t care about, “ain’t no rookie quarterback ever won a Super Bowl” crap.”
It may be crap to you, and I certainly respect your opinion, but it’s also a fact that has been documented.
I don’t see any Joe Montana’s, John Elway’s, Tom Brady’s or Patrick Mahomes in this draft, who btw, never won a SB in their rookie season.
Even if we drafted someone like Wilson, not only is it placing a great deal of pressure on him to win a SB right away, but assuming that he can beat the long odds of winning a SB as a rookie puts added pressure on him which could have a long term negative effect if he fails.
Doesn’t mean it can’t be done, and it’s certainly no reason to pass on a franchise quarterback.
It might be crap to you, its not to me and you are right there is a first time for everything, but the fact remains no rookie QB has ever won the SB and two of the least likely in Flacco and Sanchez are the only two that won multi playoff games. I think the Niners draft a QB, probably not in the first two rounds. I am tired of long shots and drafting a rookie QB in the first round and expecting a SB is a real long shot my friend. I am not opposed to it I just don’t see it myself.
Yea, well we lost two with vets so I ask you, my friend; what have we got to lose?
The offense was 2nd overall in points scored and 4th in total yards last season. They’ve got a QB. What they haven’t had at any point this season is consistency due to so many players missing time with injuries.
Ha, and Jimmy is one of the players that misses time after time. Besides that he limits the offense.
He started every game in a 19 game season culminating in a SB appearance. You say he limits the offense and I just posted the stats that back up the fact this was one of the best offenses in football last year. I think you are going to be one disappointed 9er fan moving forward because they aren’t getting rid of Garoppolo no matter how much you wish it to be so.
Garoppolo has suffered three significant injuries in his 32 career starts, and he’s been healthy this year for only one Eucking game. C’mon, man! You cannot pay 25 million for that $hit, no way, no how….
Yes you can because injuries are a part of the game and if you only paid the guys who were healthy it would be a pretty short list especially on this team.
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One other thing I wanted to ask you, if Garoppolo’s injuries are such a problem for you why are you so enamored with a kid like Wilson who already has an injury history that should be a big concern?
Why are we then paying Kittle? He’s been hurt more than anyone.
Hey Prime, if you remember I was one of the ones cautioning Kittle’s extension because his style of play is not conducive to staying healthy, thereby jeopardizing his longevity.
Same reason most are. You see my young Padawan, when you have elite traits to your game, you’re willing to take those type of risks. When you don’t, you’re not, especially at 25 million per year.
Question for you, since you’re Jimmy’s biggest cheerleader, if Jimmy is so Eucking good, what do you think a team is willing to give up for him?
So you’re willing to gamble a first round pick on a QB with an injury history who has played well for one year against lesser competition but you’re not willing to keep a QB who is a proven winner at the pro level because he’s suffered injuries around a 19 start season? That makes no sense whatsoever to me.
I honestly don’t know what a team would be willing to give up for Garoppolo. He’s signed to a good contract amount based on what he’s done and the size of other QB deals as a whole, but it’s going to be a down cap year so it’s tough to say. I think Belichick would trade a second for sure, but if Josh McDaniels finally takes another HCing job and doesn’t have a QB he likes he may be willing to offer more. It comes down to supply and demand so we’ll have to see how it shakes out.
I was one of the biggest Jimmy G fans on this blog after that 2017 performance. I also was last year but began to have some small doubts during the playoffs. This year, when he did play, there was no improvement whatsoever over last year in the playoffs and his performance was abysmal against the Squawks compared to Mullens when he took over in that game (against the Seahags there is no such thing as garbage time). But what’s clinched it for me is the fact that the team needs his salary cap money. If the salary cap wasn’t an issue, I would be onboard with keeping Jimmy G for one more year and drafting a rookie. But this team has a horrendous salary cap situation as I outlined briefly in a post in the previous blog article and Scooter has outlined in detail multiple times. It’s as much of a team management issue as a personal performance issue.
Cubus, what if the Niners were able to restructure his deal, keep all their draft picks, address their needs via free agency, would you still want Jimmy G?
That would be the better way to go IMO.
Depending on the deal, I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Can’t see how it happens, though. Here’s what Matt Maiocco said when asked the question:
Q: What about a contract restructure? Would the 49ers retain Garoppolo next season for less money?
MM: “I would think at the quarterback position you’ve got to be either all in or all out. I just think if you go to him and say, ‘Hey take a pay cut,’ you’ve already told the rest of the team that we don’t want you. What do you do then? I doubt that he would do that. That would be a huge blow to a quarterback, especially a guy who wants to be seen as the leader.”
And here’s what MM had to say further. First sentence is what I’ve been saying since the offseason:
Ultimately, Maiocco just doesn’t think Garoppolo and Kyle Shanahan are a great fit.
“I don’t think he’s perfect for this offense because the way Kyle Shanahan has his offense is, yes the running game is a big part of it, but it’s a bigger part of it when you can’t rely on your quarterback to do all the things that you want him to do. You have to then rely on the running game more.
“Kyle Shanahan’s offense is predicated on running the ball, sure, being balanced, but also when those deep shots are there and when guys are running wide open, he expects those plays to be made. This offense looks a lot different than that offense he had in Atlanta with Matt Ryan playing at a very high level that second season. Of course you remember that offense had Julio Jones, but this 49ers offense should have some big play capability, with guys running open down the field.
“I think Kyle Shanahan wants a quarterback who isn’t just a facilitator. He wants somebody, when those deep shots are available, you make the defense pay.”
https://www.knbr.com/2020/11/03/matt-maiocco-doesnt-see-the-49ers-retaining-garoppolo-in-2021/
Good post Cubus!
I posted a rebuttal to your similar statement on the previous thread but in short there was no difference in Garoppolo’s performance between 2017 and last season. He was the same guy and actually better overall last season in pretty much every category. Comparing JG and Mullens performance in the Seattle game is a complete waste of time. Mullens took over when the game was out of hand and Seattle pass rush were in Garoppolo’s face on nearly half of his dropbacks. The final point you made goes completely against what teams try to do when building a team. You do anything you can to find your QB and build around him. You don’t cut the only QB you’ve had success with so you can sign more FA’s at less impactful positions. Most teams in the league are going to have the same difficulty the Niners have as far as fitting players under a reduced cap. They can find ways to bring back the guys they really want by moving money to later years and they can restructure Garoppolo’s deal as well. As I said to Razoreater above, I think you are going to be a very disappointed 9er fan if you are counting on Garoppolo being gone next year.
Scooter has brought this up multiple times but I guess it bears repeating. If the team was that sold on Jimmy G, they would have extended him in order to free up cap space to sign Kittle, in particular. But instead they reworked the contracts of three guys (Ford, Richburg and Alexander) who’ve been injured quite a bit. Ford and Richburg may never play again. Specifically, with regards to Ford:
“In two years, the 49ers have paid Ford nearly $35M for 12 games, 12 solo tackles and six sacks,” Fitzgerald wrote. “Nobody forced the 49ers to restructure this contract in 2020, but they converted $12.7M to a bonus to deal with cap issues leaving them with a pretty big number to cut next year but it’s better than the alternative of paying him to miss football games.”
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/jimmy-garoppolo-dee-ford-two-nfls-worst-contracts-cap-expert-says
The article also talks about how bad Jimmy Gs contract was based on the amount of starts he had prior to getting the contract. It’s these bad contracts that are causing me to lose faith in Lynch. While they can identify some talent, they way overpay for a lot of it. I don’t think Paraag is to blame. He’s probably just trying to come up with the best contract he can given directives from above. But of course, I’m not sure.
I strongly disagree that JG’s contract is bad. He’s already out performed it with his play last season and they can get out of it with little cap penalty. That’s the definition of a good contract. Like everyone else here, I have no idea what the reasoning was for the contract restructures they did but we’ll find out how much they do or don’t value Garoppolo this offseason because restructuring his contract is an obvious lifeline in a down cap year.
“restructuring his contract is an obvious lifeline in a down cap year.”
It was an obvious move last offseason too, when they also had significant salary cap constraints.
Yes as we’ve discussed before I don’t know why they didn’t restructure his deal but this particular point was about whether Garoppolo’s contract was bad or not.
Sure, but you’ve made a couple of posts today about how restructuring JG’s contract is the obvious move to free up cap space to re-sign players this offseason. Which of course it is… if they believe in him as their long term QB. Same as it was last offseason.
What has changed since last offseason to make them feel more comfortable restructuring his deal this offseason? Nothing I can see. If they do so now he is literally the last big contract guy they will have gone to to restructure their deal to free up cap space. He should have been the first… if they believed in him. If they do restructure this offseason it can’t be because they now believe in him as he has done nothing this year to make the front office believe in him more than what he showed in 2019. So if they do… I fear it would be a more a sign of a front office making a desperation move based on hope rather than belief.
You have repeatedly said we should not be reading anything into the fact they didn’t make this obvious move last offseason. I don’t see how you can acknowledge it is the obvious move this coming offseason without acknowledging it was the obvious move last offseason too. So the fact they didn’t is bewildering if they truly feel comfortable with him as their long term QB.
I’ve said from the beginning that I don’t know why they didn’t restructure his deal and nothing has changed. My point then and still is we can’t read too much into why they didn’t do it previously because we really don’t know. What I do know is that they’ve said repeatedly he is their guy and his contract is not egregious for what he’s accomplished. We’ll see if they do something with it this offseason but I still see no way they move on from him.
Sure, you don’t know why they didn’t do it, but that doesn’t mean nothing should be read into it. As you say, it is the obvious move this offseason. It was the obvious move last offseason. Of course you can read something into the fact they didn’t make that obvious move and chose to restructure other players instead.
It was clear from the quality of play in the very first game that we were not going to the playoffs. Signs are there to see if one wants to see.
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I am hoping to see both JG and Kittle play against the Cowboys.
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Yes, there is no room for error, like Mullens penalty on the goal line, compounded by the pick.
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If Mullens can figure out a way to defeat Washington, if JG and Kittle can return, and if the planets align, there is a chance.
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Still, they have been resilient, and handled adversity like champions, so I will still believe in them.
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Now, what they need is for the O line to play better. Maybe they should start Justin Skule at RT, and move Mike McGlinchey inside at RG. Both McKivitz and Compton have consistently whiffed on their blocks, so they are liabilities. McGlinchey is also struggling, so moving him inside may stop the edge defenders from running past him.
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No matter what, if the O line does not improve, either Mullens or JG will not be able to win.
If they lose to Washington you’ll never see Jimmy play for the 49ers again.
Then you might get your wish at a shot at Wilson as the next SF 49ers QB.
Wilson would be the perfect fit for Shanny but they’d need to trade up into the top ten to have any chance. Barring that it most likely will be either Trask or Jones and neither gets me excited….
I think Trask will be a top 10 selection,.
No way in hell, but I won’t be surprised if a team moves up into the 20’s to overdraft him.
Razor, as of today, Trask is in the same conversation as Lance and Wilson. But still the 5th rated QB.
After Florida plays in a bowl game plus the combine and workouts, there is possibility he moves ahead of Lance. That makes him the 4th rated QB.( I personally think he is better than Fields). Anyways, teams currently looking for a QB include:
Jets
Jags
Cowboys
Eagles
ATL
WSH
DET
Bears
Niners
All those teams will be drafting in the top 10.
And therein lies the other rub. There are several teams that will potentially be ahead of the 49ers during the draft to where the quality of QB options will be considerably lessened by the time the 49ers are on the clock.
The combine isn’t going to help him. He’s got an average arm at best, inaccurate and he’s not athletic. Some love him, some don’t. One thing’s for sure and it happens almost every draft; some team desperate for a quarterback gives up draft capital to move back up into the first round to get him. That’s how I see it going down….
Maybe not as athletic as the other QB’s but inaccurate? No way. He is more accurate than Lawrence.
His game translates poorly to functioning off schedule and extending plays in the NFL. He’s gonna struggle with the tiny windows in the NFL. He’s just not a 1st round talent to me, but I’m looking for a difference maker like an Allen or Mahomes….
I was super impressed by Allen last night, and of course Mahomes is a generational talent.
I don’t think there is a QB in this draft that is anything compared to those two.
Now my worry is everyone says SF is the best place for any rookie QB to go to because Shanny’s system is the best offense to go.
People are gonna say I’m crazy but I disagree. I hate the conservative approach and play calling the last 2 years. Too much emphasis on the run game and play action has made this offense too predictable.
Now maybe this is because he doesn’t have the QB he needs but if that’s the case, he should have drafted one. And when he did draft one in CJB, he was nothing that resembles a QB who can move, be accurate and win games in the NFL.
That makes me worry what’s next at the QB position in SF.
Shanny’s offense has been handcuffed by average arm quarterbacks. He wants to take deep shots downfield. Wilson’s ability to throw at different angles on the move with accuracy is Mahomes light. His game translates very well to the NFL. He can fit the ball into tiny windows. He’s agile in the pocket and can make you miss. He can make you pay either way. His quick release and ball velocity are special.
He drafted CJ to be a backup not the starter. You don’t go looking for a starter in the bottom of the 3rd round….
“I was super impressed by Allen last night, and of course Mahomes is a generational talent.
I don’t think there is a QB in this draft that is anything compared to those two.”
Allen’s college stats and play had high level moments, but overall he was very inconsistent in college and played lower tier opposition. Mahomes had exceptional stats but it was against teams that don’t defend.
Suggesting none of the guys in this year’s draft look like an Allen or Mahomes is basing it on what Allen and Mahomes are like now.
This draft has guys that look as good as an Allen, Mahomes or Watson from college. Lawrence would likely go before any of them in their respective drafts. Fields, Wilson, Lance and Trask could all make cases to be considered on par with those guys coming out of college.
Yep, all they gotta do is pick their man and then go get him. They’ll have 3 out of 5 to choose from.
We should never be drafting a back up QB in the 3rd round. That was a huge mistake.
As for the QB’s coming out this draft, of course none of look like NFL QB’s Mahomes and Allen. My point was each of them have a long way to go to becoming franchise caliber. To me, Trask looks like the most NFL ready because of his arm, accuracy and size.
Shanny’s made mistakes but he’s never been wrong!
CJ was drafted at 104. IIRC he was the among the last 4-5 players picked in the 3rd round. Practically in the fourth round.
Two QBs selected ahead of him (Kizer and Webb) are currently in practice squads. Of the 4 QBs taken after him, Kayya and Kelley are out of the League. The other two (Dobbs and Peterman) are firmly third stringers. According to Kyle, CJ is a second among equals at backup :)
Only 2 QBs seem to have panned out in that draft. Drafting QBs is tough!!
‘We should never draft a QB in the third round’.
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I think JM worked out well.
Seb, keep looking for the next Joe Montana in the 3rd round and let me know how it goes.
Nobody and I mean nobody drafts a quarterback in round 3 with the expectation that they’ll be a starter in this league….
I think Trask gets overdrafted as well.
He is smart, big bodied and very accurate but everything is a touch pass with him. In terms of strength his arm is closer to Mullens than it is to Allen. I liken him to post surgery Peyton, can he be good? Yes, but everything has to break right for him to be a franchise level qb.
As to not seeing a Mahomes or Allen, Lawrence is the most coveted qb prospect to come out since Luck and Elway before him. He’s big, strong armed, accurate, mobile and has played well in high pressure moments… what’s not to like?
As to Him moving up draft boards ahead of Wilson… Mel Kiper, The Draft Network, PFF all have Trask with a second round grade while Wilson is ranked in the teens for each of these.
I still have Wilson ranked as my 4th qb behind Lance but his arm strength has really improved this year. While not elite like Allen, it’s a step below, in that Baker Mayfield category which is strong enough.
I doubt Trask goes top 10, but I would have no qualms with the 49ers taking him in the teens. My “issue” with him is he doesn’t have any elite physical traits, but I do think his physical traits are unfairly criticised too – he’s not a bad athlete and his arm isn’t a noodle arm. And unlike a few of the guys that will likely go before him, he has demonstrated an ability to move subtly and throw accurately under pressure against quality teams, and he isn’t afraid to take a hit. He also has no problem pushing the ball downfield. I think he’d be a good fit for Shanahan.
But… its a traits league and I can see a scenario where teams don’t want to take Trask until late round 1/ round 2.
Scooter, that’s exactly where I am with Trask. You wanna take him in round 2? I got no problems. Could he develop into a franchise quarterback, sure could but it’s the lack of “elite traits” that prevents me from ever getting onboard in the 1st round….
I dunno, they found a HOF SB winning QB stocking shelves, so he may be found in the least likely places.
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I will repeat, it may be futile to draft the next JM if his O line acts like turnstiles. Improving the O line will help them run the ball, too. I am perusing the top prospects list, and like Creed Humphrey, because he sounds versatile, and could be drafted in the late first round.
Scooter,
Then we disagree on this, I think it’s noticeably weak. I don’t think it’s as strong as Jimmys, and if he can’t step into his throws they tend to die. That is not to say he can’t be good, he is able to make layered throws with remarkable consistency and accuracy that’s why he still has a chance.
He is a better athlete than is being made out but more in the Goff level than the Allen level.
Trask is simply not a guy I’d take in the first.
Outside of RGIII for a half a season, how confident are we in Shanny developing a QB? I mean in 2 years he hasnt done much with or for Jimmy G, CJB. Mullen’s is bit better but still not starter potential.
In his previous coahing stints, his play calling has shaded a lot of bad QB’s, but in terms of developing one, has he ever?
Sure is, which is why you don’t drop one who won 15 games in a season because he didn’t play consistently well with a high ankle sprain during a season destroyed by injuries across the board.
I’d like to see Jimmy G stay as well NTE but cap wise, I don’t think the 49ers can do it without sacrificing their depth.
How much will we save when Sherman, Richburg, Ford, Witherspoon move on?
Is that enough to keep Jimmy, sign your draft picks and address your secondary, pass rush and oline?
Seb, there’s no way in hell they’ll burn a top pick on an IOL or a CB. Not gonna happen. I got you though in round 6. Harry Crider outta IU. Played OG last year and wasn’t that good. Moved to center this year and has played well.
What do you suppose the odds are of finding this “Joe Montana” in round 3 or at Ralphs? Ball park figure please….
Shoup… “and if he can’t step into his throws they tend to die”.
Same can be said of a lot of QBs… including JG.
I think if you were to base Trask’s arm strength on 2019 then I would agree with you. But in 2020 he really has looked much better in terms of being able to make all the throws with adequate arm strength. Not a cannon, but definitely sufficient is my belief. And he hasn’t needed a perfect pocket to make accurate throws.
Razor, Creed Humphrey was ranked 22 in one top prospects poll, so I hope the Niners trade back and get 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. If Saleh gives the Niners a third round compensation, then they would have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds.
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I am assuming TW will leave, so Skule needs competition for that spot. Hopefully, they can find a decent FA, too. McGlinchey is on thin ice, so they may need to spend at least 2 of those early picks to shore up the O line.
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It all starts in the trenches. O line need vast upgrading. I will not count on Bosa until 2022, because he has an injury history. This last game showed that they need a pass rusher, so they may need to spend their first round pick to select one of the top 3 prospects. They also need to totally rebuild their defensive backfield, so drafting a CB at around 20 may be the best player available that fills a big need.
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You know me. If I had to choose a QB to replace JG, the choice is obvious. SB QB that has set playoff records, who can shrug off arm tackles has a cannon for an arm and score from anywhere on the field.
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However, I still want JG to lead the Niners for their Quest for Six, and think several other teams should consider giving him at least a tryout.
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Yes, Ralph’s checkers sure are friendly, but Jamarcus Russell and Tim Tebow need to work on their restocking skills. The Jets and Jags have the first and second spots lined up for Lawrence and Fields, but the rest of the new QBs may end up like Trubusty and Darnold. Declaring that an untested rookie will be elite, is hit or miss, and solely in the eye of the beholder.
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If the planets align, they may find a diamond in the rough. Until then, JG should still be the starting franchise QB of the San Francisco 49ers.
Scooter,
Yes, that is true Jimmy and Mullens are not strong armed qb’s… and I would place Trask’s arm somewhere between them.
As to the stepping into the throws thing, Jimmy’s lower mechanics have always been bad but his quick release has allowed him to get away with a lot. And he has often showcased the ability to throw from multiple arm angles. That said, If you watch his throws over the middle it seems he seldom uses his legs at all. Actually, I think his arm would be ok if he learned to consistently marry his feet to his throws… and this offseason should be the first one he has had in years where he can work with a qb coach.
As to Trask his feet are already better than Jimmy’s and has a quick releases though not at Jimmy’s level (who is). He has already shown the ability to read defenses and manipulate safeties and is great with his touch throws and dropping the ball between defensive layers. This is why I give him a chance in the NFL.
The scary part with him is his physical abilities are about maxed out. He can’t be Big Ben, Mahomes, Watson, or Wilson… those avenues to success are all closed to him. This is why he remains below the other 4 to me, they all have stronger arms and are more mobile. He is a high floor, low ceiling kind of prospect for me and I don’t take those in the first round. If I ranked the qb’s in tiers in terms of upside it would be 1. Lawrence (HOF ) 2. Fields (All Pro) 3. Wilson, Lance (Pro Bowl) 4. Trask, Jones (Franchise)
Lawrence will get the Darnold treatment. Fields may end up like Joe Burrow. A QB going to the Jags? Good luck.
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They will be going to pathetic teams as saviors, but may become crucified.
Prime Time,
It all depends on whether they restructure Garopplo’s deal or not. If they do, that combined with the savings from cutting some of the players mentioned should allow them to re-sign most of the players they want. I honestly don’t see them paying big money to anybody but Williams though. Most of the others are good players but they all come with question marks due to injury, age or both.
The only way Jimmy restructures his deal is if SF gives up something in exchange… ie more years and more guaranteed money.
Currently Jimmy’s cap number is $26,900,000 for 2021 and $27,000,000 for 2022 but if they cut Jimmy pre June 1, his cap number would be 2.8 million this year, they did so post June 1, it would 1.4 this years and 1.4 in 2022.
So if SF wants to keep him then they must restructure for cap relief and if for example they believe they need it down to around 18 – 20 mil this year, you are probably looking at paying a large signing bonus and adding a year maybe 2. For Example, telling him we need to get your cap number down for a few years… but to do so we would like to offer you 45 million guaranteed. Year 1 you will get a base salary of 2 million and 18 M in guaranteed bonus money. Year 2 you will get a base salary 8M with 14M guaranteed and in Year 3 you will get a base salary of 18M with 9M guaranteed.
The Major problem here is if Jimmy gets injured, plays poorly or even if he’s ok but never really gets back to being good again, SF will still owe him and have to take that cap hit somewhere… and you certainly don’t want to backload that guaranteed money on an injury prone player.
“Defensive coordinator Robert Saleh got credit for the win over the Rams, so he deserves the blame for the unit’s awful performance against the Bills.
Saleh looked perplexed on the sidelines during the broadcast. His defense had no answer for the Bills and repeatedly shot themselves in the foot.
Saleh’s defense routinely underperforms against dual-threat quarterbacks. The 49ers are 0-3 against teams with dynamic quarterbacks this season, losing to the Bills, Arizona Cardinals and Seattle Seahawks.
Saleh has been getting some attention as a potential head coaching candidate for next season. He better hope any future employers skip this game tape because it will showcase one of his major weaknesses, which is his inability to make in-game adjustments.”
https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/12/8/22162828/49ers-defense-disappoints-against-bills
The west wasn’t won on Saleh.
In other words, if Saleh and the coaching team can coach up and scheme rookies, backups, third stringers, and players playing out of position into playing way above their level, they’re awesome.
If however, the rookies, backups, third stringers, and players playing out of position happen to play at their level and get outplayed by superior talent, the coaches are awful, just awful! Off with their heads!
You make a valid point Mood.
Thanks, undercenter, Just trying to fight off my own fan frustrations with logic :)
The scheme around which Shanalynch and Saleh have tailored their entire defensive personnel depends on being able to exert edge pressure on the QB to be effective (in contrast to other schemes, e.g., Bellichick’s scheme which focuses on defending the middle against run and pass, and then use man coverage with nickel or dime on third downs to take away the main receiving weapon).
I can see that without a top-10 pass rush, Niners’ D will be very dependent on experienced veteran presence in the backfield, and will occasionally flop when there is significant loss to injuries coupled with an unfamiliar opponent. The D line on average could not get closer than 5 yards to Allen.
Personally I prefer Bellichick’s scheme since it is more robust to personnel change/loss.
This is the way it’s gone all season unfortunately. Everyone knows why this team is struggling for consistency but still want to find scapegoats to blame for the lack of success. It’s frustrating to see the team get decimated by injuries but you can’t let it affect judgement. Thankfully I don’t see that happening with the guys in charge.
IDK mood, wasn’t it basically the same D roster this game as last? The one that shut down the less than mobile QB and got shredded by the mobile one? Isn’t that the gist of our Saleh complaints?
Rib gets it. The league has been moving towards mobile QBs and Saleh can’t adjust. Just look at the D’s stats against mobile QBs. If I believed that Saleh was trying various things to attempt to stop opposing offenses and they weren’t effective, then it would be logical to blame the players. But with Saleh you get pretty much one scheme or so and no imagination. DCs and OCs need imagination. As a position coach, Saleh would be just fine.
Cubus,
Why do you say that with “Saleh you get pretty much one scheme or so and no imagination”?
Pretty much every football analyst who follows the Niners have noted that with the pass rush well below par, he has modified his play calling substantially mixing in man coverage and blitzing, mostly from the corners. Heck, even Grant has noted this change
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJcTsVDDe6Y
Against the Bills he tried to get away from the soft zone coverage which was giving up 5-10 yard chunks by trying some man coverage but there is no way to cover Diggs one-on-one for 5-6 seconds. So he came back to zone again which probably prevented a few more big plays. Sherman is too slow for man coverage outside.
If the zone and man-to-man weren’t working how about a double team; i.e a corner underneath and safety over the top or something similar. Make Allen throw it to someone else.
Yes the pass rush was abysmal – so blitz more. Yes. it’s a two-edged sword, but when a QB is just sitting back there biding his time picking apart the secondary, it seems to me that it’s worth a try. I know there were a few blitzes, but Allen was in his comfort zone all game. If different things are tried and Allen still beats the D, then good for Allen. I’m certainly not the first to notice that Saleh is poor on in-game adjustments. Did you read the article I linked?
I don’t know why they didn’t double team one of the receivers. Maybe they chose not to double team against 2 very good receivers and when the pass rush is not getting to the QB.
The Niners blitzed 12 times on 43 drop backs by Allen. That’s more than one blitz every 4 drop backs., and it’s a much higher rate than they have every blitzed. But their best blitzer Williams was unavailable and so was the backup Taylor. Niners D is not built to blitz. To be effective they have to blitz sparingly. I think this game had the most number of blitzes Saleh has called in a while.
I did read Posey’s article before you posted the link. Didn’t think much of it. Posey is just another fan like us. I give far more weight to the break downs by ex-players like Crocker or professional analysts like Cossell.
Cossell thought that this was best Allen has played in his entire career, especially in ball placement. He though that the throw he made past Warner’s lunging hands was the best Allen has made so far in his career.
Sometimes a player just plays exceptionally well and it doesn’t mean that the opposing defensive play caller is incompetent.
Rib,
I should point out that most defenses in general have problems with mobile QBs who can also throw with decent accuracy. Its not just the Niners.
But Allen wasn’t running much at all on Monday night. In fact, Goff has many designed roll outs to the right similar to what Allen did in this game. The difference is that Allen was far more poised sliding around the pocket than Goff was. What changed you ask? The Bills O line is much better than Rams at pass pro. It was the lack of pass rush that allowed Allen to play pitch and catch.
Additionally, for the Rams there is the familiarity factor that gives confidence to players in contrast to facing a team like the Bills whom many of these backups and third string defensive players haven’t played against.
Harry Crider, C, Indiana in round 6 please.
Maiocco may not think that the Niners want to retain JG, but both JL and KS have expressed support for JG.
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Actions speak louder than words. They had the opportunity to obtain Tom Brady, but decided to pass on him, and stay with JG. Until some one can show that there is a superior alternative to Brady. JG should remain their franchise starting QB.
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No, if JG is asked to restructure his deal, it does not mean they do not want him. It means they are asking him to be a team player, using the salary savings to help retain talent. JG knows the drill. The salary cap is a restraint that needs to be factored in every team decision. There is just so much cap space, that will force the Niners into making painful decisions, for every position group.
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JG will remain the starter, because both Mullens and CJB are pedestrian. There is no superior candidate available. Both Kyler Murray and Joe Burrow were number one picks, and both have struggled. Trubusty was selected before Mahomes, and Lamar Jackson was passed over by almost every team. Hill initially thought that Mahomes was a bust, so QB assessments are not set in stone, with slam dunk designations. Herbert has played well at times, but he has not helped his team win very many games. Darnold has become an afterthought, Haskins is benched for AS, and Jones was replaced by a QB who had not thrown a pass in 6 years. Predicting QB success is an inexact science.
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It is amusing to hear that KS likes mobile QBs who are dual threats, and has a cannon for an arm. Maybe he should have retained Kaep, instead of going with Hoyer.
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Maiocco is getting salty. Dissing the starting QB is not a good way to get a one on one interview.
jimmy G has a no trade clause in his contract
so if he gets traded its back to new england and belichek
maybe chicago his home town…
and if he does agree to be traded shanny will go after a vet
Dang. If I had kept in Diggs instead of playing Claypool in the WR position, I would have won this week’s fantasy match. Oh well, I would rather lose without Diggs, than win with him. My 5 win season is kinda like the Niners season.
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This week I am matched up against a formidable opponent. However, I hope Razor does not think I am just blowing smoke, when I say my lineup is more potent than his! ;p
Anyone remember when Shanahan said:
If he wants one of those two “guys” that will be left after picks #1 & #2, he’ll need to go up above the Panthers.
Where do you think 5-11 or 6-10 sees them drafting?
10-12
That’s what I am thinking. Washington, Cardinals and Seahawks will all be difficult games. And if JG and Kittle are still out the Cowboys will be difficult too.
Picking 10-12… moving up to get one of the top 4 QBs wouldn’t be that difficult.
I disagree. If you are trading up for another position sure, but QB’s always cost more to trade up for. Chances are any team needing a QB in the top ten, which is possibly more than QB’s available, aren’t going to trade out of their chance to take one.
Maybe.
Does anyone know what the record is for # of QBs taken top 10 in one draft?
Four back in 2018 Scooter.
Thanks Mid. And the 4th guy was pick 10. So if the 49ers are picking around 10-12, it would need to be an unprecedented run on QBs that stops them from being in a position where a small trade up gets them a top 4 QB.
It’s hard to rule it out though. The Lions could be line for a new QB if they do decide to trade Stafford, while Elway and the Broncos will be under pressure to get the position right this time. And then there is the possibility that a team outside of the top 10 could trade up to acquire a QB.
“And then there is the possibility that a team outside of the top 10 could trade up to acquire a QB.”
You mean like the 49ers… :-P
Hopefully not. The team needs to stay put or trade down if it intends to restock some of the cupboard.
Depends on whether they have the cap space to retain/ sign players or not. If they keep JG they will definitely need draft picks.
Everything that Shanalynch has said so far in public points to them trading down to increase number of draft picks. Drafting up for a QB is very far fetched, IMO.
Far more immediate need is a speed rusher from the edge to replace Ford. We don’t even know how effective Bosa will be next season. Sometimes ACL recoveries take over a year to return to earlier form.
If Saleh gets hired we’ll have the following:
1.
2.
3. Compensatory for Saleh
3. Compensatory for Saleh
4.
5.
5.
5. Compensatory for Sanders
6.
7.
7.
There’s no need to trade down and accumulate more draft picks.
Big if there Razor; there is no guarantee Saleh gets a coaching gig elsewhere after this season.
The second bonus pick for Saleh’s promotion will be in the 2022 draft.
I can see them trying to hit the dozen mark with picks to compensate for the upcoming losses in FA.
My understanding is that if Saleh were to then take any minority staff with him the 49ers would then get a 3rd pick too.
My understanding is that those bonus picks are only for GM and HC positions. However, if Saleh takes Mayhew with him as GM, boom – the third round trifecta!
Yep, my bad, thanks Mood.
I would start talking to Howie at the combine to get a contingency plan in place for a trade up as my plan A, and Elway as my plan B. This is assuming that the Eagles would be just above the Panthers and the Broncos just above the Redskins. Those are the two teams most likely in my mind to draft both Wilson and Lance, the last of the elite prospects….
Yep.
The Eagles will potentially be in the market for a QB, especially if the expected regime game takes place.
Elway will draft a QB if one is available in my opinion. They aren’t tied to Locke and he hasn’t progressed enough to pass up a QB if there is one available. The Eagles could face an interesting decision if they have a chance to take one as well. Either way any team ahead of the 9ers that needs a QB is either not trading down or likely trading up if there is a run.
Why would the Eagles draft a QB after they just drafted Hurts?
I don’t expect the Eagles to draft a quarterback. They’ll give Hurts at least a year just like the Broncos will give Locke one more….
Why would the Eagles draft a QB after they just drafted Hurts?
For the same reason the Cardinals took Kyler Murray in 2018 after taking Josh Rosen in the previous draft.
Possibly, Mid. That’ll be a lot of $$ in QBs they would then be on the line for though.
Teams like the Vikes, Eagles, Falcons and Panthers would love to take a QB but the cap hit to get rid of their current guy would cripple their entire roster.
The Niners might be able to just sit and wait on their pick if its in the top 12.
PT, the Eagles are royally screwed when it comes to their QB situation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/09/sports/football/eagles-quarterback-wentz-hurts.html
Maybe they cut ties with Hurts and go in a different direction, but they need help up and down the roster. I think QB is way down on the shopping list.
Because he was a second round pick and they didn’t take him to replace Wentz. He was more of a Taysom Hill pick is my guess. The fact he is having to replace Wentz due to poor play is why I could see them taking another one if the situation arises. Same thing with Elway and the Broncos. They only invested a second round pick in Lock and he hasn’t shown enough to keep them from drafting one of the top guys in this upcoming draft if they get the chance.
Mid, that was a roll of a dice by a new guy coming in, wanting his guy, wanting to take the team in a whole different direction, an ownership and front office that gave him cart blanc in doing so. A pretty unique situation, not likely to be replicated.
It is OK to surmise about next draft, but this upcoming game is a real challenge. Washington just beat the previously undefeated Steelers, so they are playing well. AS is leading them, so I hope the Niner coaches instruct the Niner pass rushers to refrain from tackling him, and just grab and hold him up. AS is a lesson in courage, but he is risking a major injury on the field. He almost lost his leg, and almost lost his life.
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Hopefully, the Niners can win the game, and if AS survives with no major injury, he can claim victory, too.
Seb, I understand your humanitarian concerns but any player out on the field won’t and shouldn’t be treated differently from any other player. For Smiths position, that’s what quarterback protection rules are for.
Could you imagine that conversation between Coach Kocurek and his dline?
CK: “Ok boys, don’t hit Alex Smith this Sunday. He’s such a nice guy, a lesson in courage”
Players:” but coach, our entire job as pass rushers is to hit the QB, clean?
CK: “well just try not to, like grab and hug him to the ground?
Players:”but I get bonus money for sacks?
CK: “ahhhh, its only money”
Players: “ F you coach!
Its OK, the league will protect him, too. In the Dallas game, a pass rusher had a clear shot at AS, but the refs quickly blew their whistles, so the play was called dead, instead of AS. AS is popular among Niner fans, who also decry all the injuries in this game. I do not want them to hug AS to the ground. I want them to keep him upright so bodies do not land on his leg.
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I am saying this for the health of AS, but also for the good of the game. It would be horrendous to see AS carted off the field AGAIN. I just hope AS can live the rest of his life with all of his limbs and in no pain.
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Yes, football is a brutal sport, but they should be injecting some humanity in it, to temper the bloodlust some have, like Prime.
Its really too bad you didnt play the game as you would understand that football is not a brutal sport. It is a physical sport. Big difference.
Players are never out to injure or decapitate other players. Its just that sometimes freak things happen when the speed of the game gets amplified.
If Alex Smith is not physically able to withstand a 300lb human falling on his leg, he should not be playing. The NFL has protocols to determine this. You advising this is ignorant. But then again, your stupidity never seems to amaze me!
Joe Theisman had his legs snapped like twigs by Lawrence Taylor. He never played again. Guess you think JT should have just rubbed it and gone back out playing. With the magic of modern medicine, AS has made a comeback, but I still think he should retire, and not risk further injury.
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It is a brutal sport, and all the injuries are proof of that assertion. However, since you seem to like to bludgeon yourself with wild histrionics, I guess it was never too brutal for you. Quit leading with your chin. You sound like you took too many blows to the head.
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Believe it or not, one can sack the QB by just grabbing him. He does not need to give a bear hug and land on him.
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I never cease to amaze you? Good, because I can read you like a book. Do you still think the Niners will not win another game? Wotta loser.
??You are so stupid.
Seb,
I’m sure that AS has weighed all the possible risks when getting back on the field.
There is a good dynamic of respect that football players have towards each other, and a defensive player who gets a clean shot at Alex could pull up a little before the tackle.
But on the hand, it is football – a full contact sport.
How much money will a top ten QB command coming out of college ?
About the same as a top 10 draft pick at any other position.
Here you go, Seb
https://www.tmz.com/2020/12/10/colin-kaepernick-ben-and-jerrys-ice-cream-flavor-change-the-whirled/
One guy is not pleased.
https://youtu.be/LZ94F182jrQ
;p
https://www.si.com/nfl/49ers/news/someone-inside-the-49ers-really-likes-nick-mullens
Brian Griese was as mediocre a QB as Mullen’s.
Both guys are and were very fortunate to have jobs in the NFL.
Brian Griese didn’t make that up. It was said to him by someone in the 49ers organization and he repeated it. He’s not the first to say this.
Someone? Like who? You have to have sources in this business so water boys don’t count.
If the Niners think that Nick Mullens is the guy next year, get ready for another 5 to 6 win season.
These national guys are no doubt getting their intel from somewhere, but it doesn’t need to be someone still within the 49ers organisation. Scangerello for instance could tell them this info, and it would make sense as everyone knows he likes Mullens.
Thing is, does Shanahan actually like him? He seemed to resist putting him as the backup over Beathard for a long time. He was quick to replace him with Beathard at the first sign of struggles this year. Personally I believe Shanahan very much wanted Beathard to be the backup over Mullens. But Beathard keeps playing worse than Mullens every time he is given an opportunity.
I don’t see how Shanny could like him that much. He looks like a P2 robot throwing the football.
He also rushed Garoppolo back from the first High Ankle sprain he suffered to get Mullens out of there. I think Shanahan likes Mullens but in the same way he liked Bryan Hoyer. A good backup/bridge to the next guy if the situation calls for it.
One other thing I was thinking about in regards to all the comments on here lately about how the league is moving to running QB’s. When you look at the teams currently in playoff position, the overwhelming majority feature pocket QB’s who don’t run much. Running QB’s have been the flavor of the week many times throughout NFL history, but to have consistent sustained success a QB has to be able to make the majority of his plays from the pocket. Just another reason why I favor bringing Garoppolo back. He’s not the greatest athlete, but when healthy he’s able to buy time in the pocket and he stands in there fearlessly to deliver the ball. That is what you want more than a guy who is going to run for a few first downs but not make the plays you need in the passing game. When you look at Shanhan’s QB’s over his NFL coaching history, most of them are less athletic pocket passers who play within the system. That’s why I think the opinions about Shanahan not being happy with how his offense runs with Garoppolo is a load of BS. He had the exact offense he favors last season and I doubt he has turned on the QB he achieved that with because of bad luck with injury.
I think your mistaking the comments regarding QBs. It’s “dual” threat QBs not running QBs. You have to be able to pass in the NFL. Your phrase overwhelming majority seems exaggerated. Dual threat QBs on teams currently vying for a playoff spot include:
1) Patrick Mahomes
2) Taysom Hill
3) Josh Allen
4) Russell Wilson
5) Tua Tagovailoa
6) Kyler Murray
7) Lamar Jackson
Except for Wilson, all of these guys are young. The pocket QBs tend to be older. The league is trending towards the dual threat QB.
Exactly. Pocket passer first, then the ability to run after the play breaks down with eyes downfield, firing accurate lasers from different platforms and angles….
Taysom Hill is subbing for Brees who is strictly a pocket passer. Teams currently in playoff position are overwhelming lead by pocket passers. Dual threat is fine as long as the main threat is making plays from the pocket. What I want is a QB that buys time in the pocket to make a play with his arm not a QB that’s going to run while leaving a bigger play on the field. Pocket passers will always be the norm because it’s the only way to play and win consistently.
It’s from someone still with the team.
Whoever it is must not be that confident in their opinion if their unwilling to put their name to it.
Response to Jack Hammer. 10:42.
Jaworski praises Colin Kaepernick
Aug 21, 2013
Associated Press
SANTA CLARA, Calif. — Niners quarterback Colin Kaepernick received high praise from ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski and managed to take it in stride.
“I truly believe Colin Kaepernick could be one of the greatest quarterbacks ever,” Jaworski said. Wednesday on ESPN. “I love his skill set. I think the sky’s the limit.”
Just another overhyped article.
Been there, done that.
Mullens seems to fall into a depression every time he makes a mistake and it effects his play.
The mental part of the game is still a big one.
Forgot all about that. Good one!
Jaworski isn’t inside the organization. This one is which is why I wrote it.
Will he be taking him with him to Detroit??
I read that as no one inside the 49ers really likes nick mullens. Lol
Regardless of what the team does with JG, I am of the belief the 49ers will draft a QB high next year. If they can move into position to get one of the top guys without giving up too much I think they will. If not, I could see them moving back a bit in round 1 or trading up from round 2 to get a guy like Trask if he falls a bit or Jones.
No matter what happens with JG, the team is losing its backup QBs and by now Shanahan must be firmly aware of how critical it is to have a competent backup so you don’t waste a talented roster when you’re starting QB is proving a bit injury prone.
Trask and Jones are prospects they should consider on day 2. If two teams reach for either on day 1, so be it.
I’d be fine with either end of round 1. Trask I’d be fine with mid round 1 tbh.
Trask will not last after pick 15,round 1.
Gotta test your conviction. I got $200 that says he’s still on the board after pick #15.
Deal!
?
?
Matt Barrows
@mattbarrows
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1h
Richard Sherman said it would take a “miracle” for him to be back w/ #49ers in ’21. He noted team has 40 FAs, said there will be $30M in cap space, that Trent Williams will cost $20M & Fred Warner will cost $18M. “Anyone who understands the situation, understands that,” he said.
Does Trent Williams want to re-sign with the 49ers? He was asked today by WSH area writers whether being in that team’s ring of honor is important to him. Said Williams: “I’m a San Francisco 49er now and my goal is to end up in their ring of fame.”
Yep, Sherman has spelled out the 49ers cap issues pretty plainly there. They have two (maybe three if you include K’Wuan Williams) guys that will need big money contracts this offseason. And likely won’t have much wriggle room cap wise unless they set the cap much higher than the $176M floor. While they can push some of the cap hits for Trent Williams and Warner to future years, they can’t get carried away with that approach as they have already done it with a couple of big contracts.
Why would Sherm come out publicly and say that? I mean it’s true but as a captain and a leader, what message have you sent to the team?
I don’t like the message when you are still in a playoff race. A slim race but a race nonetheless.
I don’t see how it matters. He is just saying what is clear and obvious, and if anything it helps remove some uncertainty for the rest of the team. The message to the team is to make it count this year if at all possible. Don’t go into the next four games thinking if it doesn’t work out there is always next year, because next year the team is going to be very different.
I don’t like it. It has a connotation of “I’m done here”
Lots of football left and when young guys look up to you for leadership and you say, “I’m not here much longer”, that is defeating.
PT- ‘The Niners will not win another game’.
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That sounds self defeating, too.
QB’s when throwing 15+ yards past the LOS during their time with the 49ers”
Jimmy Garoppolo: 58-126, 1608, 9 TD, 13 Int, 76.8 rating
Nick Mullens: 41-67, 1107, 3 TD, 4 Int, 95.2 rating
Care to compare their win/loss records?
I’ll take wins over stats every day of the week. What other team could Mullens start for today?
Denver would be the obvious venue, but there’s no guarantee that he beats out a healthy Lock when he comes back.
Even with Mullens’ nice stats it only makes him a first tier backup.
A lot of people seem to overlook that don’t they? The only QB who has won here consistently with Shanahan is Garoppolo. He’s injury prone, he doesn’t throw down field enough blah, blah, blah. He started 19 games in won season, won 15 and that’s the bottom line. He won 3 games this season playing on a bum ankle too. The guy just wins games.
Yup.
And the winner for cherry picked irrelevant stat of the day goes to … Did you ever think about doing some analysis about Mullens racking up stats in the 4th quarter when the game is pretty much over. Win Loss record means something.
Belicheck will be drafting a QB in rd one. Cam is a shell of what he used to be.
With the big change in football since his 1st SB win, maybe he follows the modern trend of going with a dual-threat QB.
I’m starting to believe that the age of the traditional pocket QB is fading in the rear view mirror.
So, if Shanahan is leaning towards a DT QB, I hope it’s Lance.
Acute accuracy, strong arm, good pocket presence with the ability to run.
Bigger than Wilson.
Dual threat QB? Hmmm, there is one available right now. ;p
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I will agree that Cam is done in NE. Belichick likes accurate passers. Stidham is a stiff. If they do trade him, maybe JG could be traded for 2 first and a second round pick to NE, since they like JG a lot. However, that may allow Belichick to win a couple more rings, so the Niners should just keep JG and improve the talent surrounding him.
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Old Coach’s assessment of Goff is looking better after these last 2 games.
It’s not and never will. The ideal NFL QB is still somebody who operates primarily from within the pocket and we are seeing that with most of the teams holding playoff position right now. Dual threat is a nice term and we’ve seen it come in before but to have sustained success in this league you have to have a QB who plays primarily from the pocket. Running for a first down is great but it’s not going to affect the outcome of a game most of the time. You need a QB who can move to buy time within the pocket and throw the football.
Not an expert,
I agree in part with your response. But in the age of fast defensive front lines and specialized DE’ it’s become imperative for a QB to have the ability to run out of the pocket to extend plays.
We have witnessed here in our own division and last Monday how effective this type of QB can be.
The Saints are finding success with Taysom Hill having this kind of ability while Brees is out.
I agree with your assessment about sustainability. It’s a risk anytime a QB leaves the pocket, but so far it has paid dividends.
A traditional QB will alway have a place in the NFL, but if his Oline is weak there’s a good chance that he’s at risk without ever leaving the pocket.
AES
A QB is most effective from the pocket and the dual threat QBs rely on running as much or more than passing. The best QBs imo are the ones that can move within the pocket to escape pressure and throw the football not the ones that bail and look to run or wind up blowing up a play because they’ve eliminated a large part of the field while leaving the pocket. There aren’t many Mahomes or Wilson’s out there which is why they are in an elite class.
Notanexpert.
You have echoed what I’ve been saying for quite some time. I’ve said that the DT QB needs to have a pass first mentality. But he also needs to have the ability to run when the Oline breaks down.
Only a hand full of QBs are successful at this at the moment. RW, JA and Murray.
Jackson is not where these guys are right now because he seems to run after his first read is covered. This is more of a run first mentality, which Btw, he’s darn good at.
But Wilson, Allen and Murray are the type of QBs I’d be interested in. Lance and Z. Wilson are of that ilk.
IF Shanahan is leaning towards this kind of QB, these two QBs could be this drafts best offering.
But time will tell.
I agree. What we are seeing is that having a QB with a sufficient combination of mobility and smarts to avoid pressure, extend plays and pick up yards with their legs if nothing is there is becoming a bit more important (though it was always important), but dual threat or the ability to hurt a team with their legs is not a requirement of a good QB in today’s NFL. It is a nice to have, but only if they are effective pocket QBs first and foremost.
Kyle Shanahan on QBs:
“How I evaluate everything is always changing. Things change, people change. You start to see you can win football games with any type of quarterback as long as they are good enough and you can be good enough in hundreds of different ways. So, I evaluate quarterbacks in terms of trying to find people who can have a chance to be one of those elite-type guys and there’s lots of different ways to do it. You can see now there’s plenty of different ways, so I don’t think that’ll ever change. I don’t think you have one certain thing you’re looking for. You’re just trying to find a guy who is better than about 98-percent of the people on this planet or in this country and when you find that, you get him and you adjust to him.”
Note the last portion of the last sentence – “you get him and you adjust to him.”
Maybe KS is adjusting his thinking on QBs. It’s going to be an interesting offseason.
I read that article as well. I believe Shanahan also revealed that he would be open to the QB that has the ability to extend plays.
That said, if Sam Darnold walks away from the Jets if the team goes with Lawrence.
Darnold was put into a horrible situation in NY with bad coaching and lack of talent around him.
I believe that he can be a winner in the right situation.
Should the 49ers be interested if scenario becomes a reality?
I have been saying for years that a mobile, dual threat QB is the wave of the future.
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Patrick Mahomes. Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson and Desean Watson can stress the defense and force the defense to defend against both the pass and run. A pocket passer cannot do that. The defense can tee up and rush to a spot, and ignore the possibility of the QB breaking containment.
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Fortunately, KS now may be regretting moving on from Kaep and preferring Hoyer, because Hoyer threw like the DBs were the intended receivers. He now thinks that a dual threat QB is more of a threat than just a pocket passer. If that is why he wants to move on from JG, he should just sign Kaep with a low- prove it- contract.
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Still, JG should be the Franchise QB of the San Francisco 49ers, because he is accurate, and can thread the needle. His quick release can also avoid sacks. He is a leader, and makes the players around him better. He also got to the SB in his first full season. Posters are wondering if the Niners want to cut him for salary cap relief, but JL and KS selected JG over Tom Brady, so until a superior candidate emerges, they should not move on from JG. Declaring that some raw rookie will take them to the SB, is specious. Just remember players like Jamarcus Russell and Tim Tebow. Number one picks that flamed out spectacularly. Haskins and Burrow were elite college players, but have struggled in the pros.
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Of course, a dual threat QB needs to be accurate, but pocket passers can be inaccurate, too. However, the QB cannot throw the ball, and catch it, too. (Unless you are Tom Brady). Montana and Young had Jerry Rice to throw to. Kaep had Crabtree. JG had Pettis. A decent O line is also critical for success.
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Ideally, a QB can deliver the ball to his playmakers while protected in a secure pocket. However, things are not ideal all the time. When protection breaks down and receivers are covered, then a mobile, dual threat QB may be the best option.
Seb,
I’m convinced that we saw two Kaepernick’s. Pt. 1 and pt. 2, if you will.
The first CK was somewhat of a phenom that as you have said “took the league by storm.”
The second CK couldn’t see a wide open uncovered Torry Smith and was bouncing passes off the turf.
Kaep was never the same after getting blasted by Terrell Suggs on almost every play in the SB.
The once hard running CK who on one strong run received a penalty for taunted a defensive player after running him over, became a QB who was seeing ghost and going down before being hit.
I’m sorry Seb, but CK pt. 2 never regained his original game by 2016. His diminished play was on full display for 3 yrs before his last season.
No problemo. You are entitled to your opinion, just like when I declare that he will play again.
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In fact, with the rate of attrition in the league, some teams will be down to their third string QB. I submit to you, that if Colt McCoy can win a game after 6 years, Kaep will be able to win games. Some team like the Saints, may want to win a SB so bad, they may sign Kaep, if Hill falters. I believe Brees is done for the year. Maybe the Colts will move on from Rivers, if he also falters, like he did last season.
I have no problem with a team taking a flier on CK.
But at some point Kaep has to stop calling the shots like he did last year when the league set up some coaches to watch him workout.
I don’t think that he did himself any favors by moving the organized workout to a different venue. Standing up the league the way he did, (imo) doesn’t indicate how important it is for him to return to the NFL.
Sorry, he was blindsided by the league insisting on Kaep signing a one sided waiver, 20 minutes before he was going to try out. The league did not cover itself in glory, and did not want Kaep to be able to videotape the session.
Seb,
The league was doing their due diligence because the work out was organized by the NFL. They would have been responsible had CK been injured.
Also. because this was a league sponsored event they retain the copyright to all videotaped sessions.
If I’m really hungry for another chance to get back in the league, I would not have had any issues with those terms.
Regarding “dual threat” QBs, I think we need to acknowledge the college game is now such that it is very difficult to find young QBs that aren’t at least decent athletes. The best athletes are often the QBs in college these days.
The skillset that is still paramount in the NFL is being an effective drop back passer. They need to have good (enough) arm talent, good pocket presence and awareness, and an ability to read coverages. Without those things they won’t make it. Being able to extend plays is also important, but that can be done a few ways – subtle movements in the pocket can be just as effective as having the speed to roll away from a defender (if not more).
Being able to use their legs to pick up yards is a nice to have. Not necessary. The fact a lot of young QBs these days have that in their game isn’t a sign of its increasing importance, it is a sign that the vast majority of young QBs coming out of college have that skillset. All of those guys that are succeeding though are doing so as a result of their drop back passing skills, with the exception of Lamar Jackson. And Jackson it would appear is starting to get found out.
I mostly agree, but QBs like Mahomes and RW when they scramble have the ability to threaten the run and as soon as a LB or DB move up to tackle them throw the ball to a receiver in or near the area that was just vacated. This makes it very tough on the defense. If defenders try to shift too much when they see the QB moving to one side of the field, these guys have the arm talent to throw the ball deep down the field even if it is a fair distance across the field. IMO, I think a way to stop this is to hold on long enough so that the scrambling QB runs out of space, because DL should be attempting to chase them down. I’m thinking LBs would be key because they are faster and can take a more direct route to the QB (i.e. they are typically not engaging OL in this type of situation). Tricky and it requires good coordination among the defensive players.
The threat to run isn’t what makes Mahomes or Wilson great QBs. That is just a cherry on top trait. It adds an element of stress to the D. The QB doesn’t actually need to be a great runner to present this threat. Mahomes is a decent runner, nothing amazing. Most college QBs are as good or better runners than he is these days. Basically, the days of the statue QB are being left behind, but the days of the pocket QB are here to stay.
I wasn’t clear. When these guys threaten to run they keep their eyes looking downfield so that they can pass rather than run. As AES said, they prefer to pass and that tends to freeze the defenders and makes it difficult for them to move towards these QBs. I think this puts more stress on the D than your post alludes to.
I’m wondering if a 3-4 alignment is better at stopping QBs like PM and RW as opposed to a 4-3. The extra mid-field defender can more effectively act as a “spy” rather than in a 4-3, where there are only 3 LBs. Probably depends on personnel. If Fred Warner were playing in a 3-4 would his skill allow him to effectively contain these QBs when they scramble, or does a 4-3 allow a better opportunity to contain these guys in the pocket (although the 49ers don’t seem to be able to do that).
Aaron Rodgers does that too. Is he a dual threat QB by your definition?
That’s just good QB’ing. The QB doesn’t need to be a dangerous running threat to be able to make this work. Just not a statue.
Anything that takes the LBs/DBs away from their assignments (particularly DBs) and forces them towards the QB would meet my definition. Now if defenders want to assume that Rodgers won’t run because he is old, then they can do that and bear the consequences. Besides, defenders aren’t wired that way and I suspect aren’t coached that way either.
These QBs are also very effective in these situations because they have built a strong repoire with their receivers. Once their receivers see the QB scrambling they move to areas where, through prior practice, they know the QB wants them to go in order to complete a pass. There’s a coordination, an almost choreography if you will, between the QB and receivers. If this didn’t happen, then these “dual-threat” QBs would be far less effective. You sometimes see a breakdown in this when the first-string WRs are injured and the backups, who’ve had less practice with the starting QB, enter the game.
Any thoughts on my comments regarding 3-4 and 4-3 defenses.
In that case most QBs are dual threat QBs.
4-3 or 3-4 shouldn’t make much difference. Neither alignment gives you an “extra” defender in the middle – just changes which players are lined up where. And unless the 3-4 team decides to only rush 3 guys (very unlikely, and just gives the QB more time) you don’t get an extra LB to play the spy. Maybe the extra mobility of an OLB over a DE could help. But these days the difference in size and athleticism (and role) of a 3-4 OLB vs 4-3 DE is very minor. Given teams are in base so little these days anyway, it is kind of a moot point.
The main thing is the pass rush needs to be disciplined.
What I like about Mahomes and R. Wilson is their pass first mindset.
They only run (great athletes) when the pocket breaks down and happen to do it effectively.
Kyler Murray is not far behind them in his approach. but not yet the passer that they are.
Lamar Jackson’s style reminds me more of RGIII in his first season. Jackson’ running style may not be sustainable in the next couple of years.
Seems to me that the ideal new age QB is more like Mahomes, Russell and now Josh Allen.
The question is, where does Shanahan find one that fits this category?
Mahomes isn’t a “great athlete” if you are basing athleticism on his running ability. He ran a 4.8 40 for Pete’s sake. Most LBs are faster than him. What Mahomes has is good maneuverability which allows him to escape on rushing pressure. And when there are no defenders around him he can then use his legs to pick up some yards.
Aaron Rodgers is the same.
No, I’m not basing it on just his running. I’m looking at his ability to make accurate passes while sliding out of the pocket to extend plays. You have to be athletic to throw the ball across your body for completions.
Heck, it takes athleticism to throw a pass with your off hand while going out bounds and still completing it.
Note, none of what I just described has anything to do with his running.
He’s an absolute athlete.
What fits your definition of athleticism?
You said “They only run (great athletes) when the pocket breaks down and happen to do it effectively.” So the natural inference was you were referring to their running ability as being what makes them great athletes.
The whole topic was also about the running ability of these QBs.
As for Mahomes being a great athlete from the perspective of the whole, absolutely. Definitely not questioning that. I would argue though that by and large most QBs are exceptional athletes when you consider everything they can do, not just their running ability.
I think what AES and Cubus are referring to, Scooter is athletic instincts. As you point out, Mahomes isn’t fast or shifty but he does move his body and run with instincts that are synced up with his muscle memory.
If memory serves me, athletic instincts are what Bill Walsh would look for in a quarterback….
Fair enough. But when QBs like RW, JA, PH do run, they typically pick up good chunks of real estate. Of course it’s a given that they need to be able to make all the throws.
None of the current 49ers QBs can provide the element of running for big chunks which makes them limited in the pocket.
Hence, my original post that Shanahan said that he would be open to the DT type QB.
If this type of QB can provide an element that other more traditional QBs can’t, I’d be interested.
Razor, that’s it, you want a guy that is a good athlete with athletic instincts. But they don’t need to be dangerous runners. Brett Favre had amazing athletic instincts but wasn’t really a threat running the ball. He’d be just as succesful now (if not more so given the rule changes) than he was when he played.
Fair enough. We can refer to Jimmy’s diminished athletic “ability” as diminished athletic “instincts”, but I don’t think it really matters because at the heart of the issue is “athleticism”, and I think that Jimmy’s diminished athleticism – post injury, has really fundamentally changed the way Kyle see’s the position as it relates to his offensive philosophy.
“How I evaluate everything is always changing. Things change, people change. You start to see you can win football games with any type of quarterback as long as they are good enough and you can be good enough in hundreds of different ways. So, I evaluate quarterbacks in terms of trying to find people who can have a chance to be one of those elite-type guys and there’s lots of different ways to do it. You can see now there’s plenty of different ways, so I don’t think that’ll ever change. I don’t think you have one certain thing you’re looking for. You’re just trying to find a guy who is better than about 98-percent of the people on this planet or in this country and when you find that, you get him and you adjust to him.” – Kyle Shanahan (12/09/2020)
There’s no question that something has fundamentally changed the way in which Kyle evaluates the position.
I think maybe a major ability that the elite dual QBs have is the ability to multitask and to react quickly. When some QBs get flushed out of the pocket they have a hard time keeping their attention downfield while still being able to sense the rush and chaos around them. The dual threat QBs, I think, have this ability. Those QBs that find it hard are putting a lot attention on figuring out what is going on immediately around them and no longer know where their receivers are (unless it is a safety-valve outlet receiver). The elite dual-threat guys are able to sense what is going on around them while maintaining more of their focus on what is happening downfield.
cubus,
“When some QBs get flushed out of the pocket they have a hard time keeping their attention downfield while still being able to sense the rush and chaos around them.”
Exactly. And we saw this 4 years ago with Kaepernick.
Who was supposed to be the quentessentual DT QB.
He regression after the SB was sad.
That isn’t a dual threat QB ability. That’s just a good QB ability. Doesn’t matter if they are dangerous runners or not.
But it’s what allows them to be successful as a dual threat QB. Running is generally a very viable option for the dual threat QB, for a pure pocket passer not so much. It’s a mindset and it is also something that they tend to have quite a bit of experience with. There were guys particularly in the past who could deftly move around the pocket but the thought of them running was ludicrous. Passing was the only way they would pick up yards. But to the current crop of elite dual-threat QBs, running is a very viable option.
I should add that current rules facilitate QBs taking off and running. As long as the QB slides, defenders can’t do a thing to the point where some of the calls made against defenders are ridiculous. In the past, any runner could be physically punished by the defenders.
So what you’re saying is that what makes a dual threat QB successful are the same traits that make a pocket QB successful. Being able to stay aware of their surroundings, avoid pressure, while keeping their eyes downfield. This isn’t new.
Well said Scooter McG. what is being described here is playing QB. Even the slowest QBs out there can run for a first down when things break right. Doesn’t make them a dual threat. It means they can take advantage of it when it’s there.
It’s more of a nuance, Scooter – it’s not some quantum leap like you are trying to make it out to be. Is Philip Rivers a dual threat QB? One skill that dual threat QBs will have that QBs such as Rivers, Brady will not generally have is the ability to throw an accurate pass while running at pretty good clip. Also, almost by definition the dual threat QBs have to be fast enough to outrun DL. Today’s DL are significantly faster and athletic than guys from 10 to 15 years ago. Guys like Rivers, Brees, Brady are not fast enough.
The elite dual threat QB will put more pressure on a defense than the elite pocket passing QB.
If you and NAE don’t want to use the term, fine. Just realize that the NFL is moving forward whether we like it or not.
As I said earlier, the days of the statue QB are leaving us. Partly because pressure up the middle is making life too difficult for those types of QBs to be consistently successful, and partly because those players are very rare in HS and college ranks. But the traits that made those QBs successful are still the same ones that make a QB successful today. The vast majority of QBs coming into the NFL today are good athletes with at least decent mobility. But the ability to consistently hurt a team with their legs is a bonus, not a must have.
We disagreed on drafting strategy each year for a number of years and this year you came around to my way of thinking. I can wait a few years :>) [j/k]
Yes, there is not doubt that some of the items you’ve mentioned plus the fact that the NFL has instituted rules designed to increase the protection of QBs across the board and particularly if they choose to run have hastened the development of the “dual-threat” QB.
Is Matt Stafford a dual threat QB? Aaron Rodgers? Alex Smith (pre injury)? Matt Ryan? Roethlisberger? Heck, even Drew Brees when he was younger?
All those guys had similar or better 40 times as Mahomes and are/ were pretty good athletes with a good ability to move around the pocket, throw on the move and pick up yards with their legs when presented an opportunity. But I would never consider them dual threat QBs.
If that is what passes for a dual threat QB then yeah, you need that. But to me that is a QB with good levels of functional mobility and athleticism. A dual threat QB is a QB that teams actually fear their running ability.
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“A dual threat QB is a QB that teams actually fear their running ability.”
Pretty sure I’ve said that or at least meant it. The threat of them running even if they don’t. Nobody fears Brady, Rivers or Brees running (except for QB sneaks on 4th and 1 yard or less).
I think we’ve beaten this to death.
Sure. What I am not understanding is why you are ascribing general QB skills to a dual threat QB.
To me you are basically agreeing with the traits but not the name ascribed to such qbs.
To me if you look at it as a spectrum
– CK, Cam Newton, Lamar Jackson, etc are not dual threat qbs, they are running qbs.
– Kyler Murray and Josh Allen lean a bit more to the running qb side. (They rely more on their legs but have demonstrated significant ability to go through progressions and making reads)
– Russell Wilson is the quintessential example of the DT QB (he can do both at an extremely efficient level)
– Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes lean to the passer side.(They rely more on their ability to make reads and go through progressions but have demonstrated significant ability to run)
– Drew Brees and P. Rivers are your pocket passers at this point. (They are stuck in the pocket)
Shoup, to me the term “dual threat” gets thrown out there way too often. When people first started using it they meant QBs that were really dangerous running QBs. Now it seems any QB that doesn’t need a walking frame is considered a dual threat QB.
There is indeed a spectrum of running ability amongst QBs, but to be a very good QB all you really need is a modicum of mobility, good footwork and good overall body athleticism to successfully navigate the pocket and be able to make plays both in and out of the pocket. Most QBs have that these days. The Drew Bledsoe’s of the world don’t last long in the NFL and haven’t done for quite some time now. It isn’t a new thing. Even the guys you have at the bottom of the list in terms of running ability were once capable and can still move ok in the pocket, they’re just old now and so rely more on experience and intelligence.
To be honest, the ability to be a dangerous runner is more a safety valve for the young QB while they learn how to play from the pocket. It allows them to more easily be effective while learning, and escape situations that their minds aren’t yet ready to solve. But long term, as injuries and age pile up, the ability to hurt teams with their legs will diminish and it will be about what they do in the pocket, as that is what matters. Which is why the Vick’s, RGIII’s, CK’s, Newton’s and probably Lamar Jackson’s of the world won’t/ don’t make it, and also why guys with lesser athletic ability won’t/ don’t make it.
“Shoup, to me the term “dual threat” gets thrown out there way too often. ”
Fair enough, I have the same feeling towards the term “shut down corner”.
To be honest I agree with you on this. In my opinion, the term dual threat was misused from the beginning and used to describe running qb’s. Qb’s that could make simple reads and then take off running is nothing there or who’s fall back is to take off running.
I only really need my qb to be athletic enough in terms of running to perform rollouts, make crashing ends pay by escaping the pocket, and pick up easy yards when defenders turn their backs. This is not a high bar.
In terms of throwing athleticism, outside of having the requisite arm strength, you really just need them to be able to throw accurately on the run. I would like them to be able to throw off platform and from multiple arm slots but those are bonuses, similar to having an absolute cannon like Mahomes or Stafford vs just having a strong arm like Watson or Carr.
Lamar Jackson is going to be the next great activist.
Shoup, yep, shut down CB and #1 WR are also terms that I find annoying from the point of view that people throw them around way too liberally. Usually preceded with a “we need a”.
Patrick Mahomes may have run a 4.8 forty, but he plays way faster. He is agile, and can dance away from pressure.
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Being a mobile, dual threat QB does not mean he has to run as much as possible. Actually, since his knee injury, Mahomes is content to get the ball into the hands of his play makers, to let them gain the yards. It is smart to avoid the sledgehammer blows, while leading his team to victory.
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Ideally, it is best to have an accurate QB, deliver the ball on time, while protected in the pocket. However, realistically, a mobile QB will be able to avoid the pass rush, so he can buy time to allow a receiver to get open, and the QB can deliver the football. An immobile QB will be a sitting duck in the pocket, and get bludgeoned, so he becomes shell shocked and inaccurate, due to poor pass protection.
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A dual threat QB will be mobile so he can avoid the pass rush. Then, he can take advantage of a weakness, and run for a first down. If in man coverage, some DBs will have their back to him, so he can gain big yardage.
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Yes, a dual threat QB may be open for more hits, but an immobile QB who has a collapsing pocket, will get hit just as bad.
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Some may assume a dual threat QB cannot be accurate. Lamar Jackson, Desean Watson and Russell Wilson disprove that assertion. An immobile QB may also be inaccurate. So the best QB may be the accurate dual threat QB, like Patrick Mahomes.
Seb,
Personally, my first preference would be a pure pocket passer in the mode of Trask, Jones and Howell. But if these guys turn out to be similar to what we already have now, than the 49ers would not have done their due diligence.
For these types of QBs to succeed they need a good surrounding cast. And our Oline is not adequate enough to provide protection for a pocket passer. Lynch needs to address this if he and Shanahan are targeting a traditional QB next year.
AES, the Niners will miss out on the QB Sweepstakes. Looks like the Jets, Jags and Bengals have that sewn up.
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Those other QB prospects are just that. Prospects. None will guarantee that they will lead the Niners to the SB.
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JG has led the Niners to the SB, so he is the Niners best option right now. I think he will be a team player, and provide some cap relief.
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Yes, whoever leads the Niners need a good supporting cast. Improving the O line should be job number one. Finding a shut down corner should be job number 2, since Sherman thinks the Niners will not try to re-sign him, due to the salary cap restraints.
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If Bakhtiari can command an103 million dollar contract, Trent Williams may exceed that number. If they want to cut JG over the salary cap, they will not be able to afford TW. Drafting a LT and putting him under a rookie contract, may be their only option. If they do move on from JG, it will signal that the Niners are rebuilding, so elite FAs will not want to go to the Niners.
I agree. But if we draft Olinemen we may need to bite the bullet for a year or two before they are fully aware of all the speed and nuances of the game.
In this scenario we may not have a choice but to draft a mobile QB.
Definitely interesting times ahead.
I’ll be keeping a close eye on Zach Wilson, *Trey Lance (if he declares) Mac Jones and Kyle Trask as the college season winds down.
I just watched the 4th quarter of Washington vs. the Bills and Alexis Smith was really good — not only on beautifully thrown check downs, but deep passes as well in the face of pressure. If we play our tired zone defense, no reason he, too, won’t pick it apart.
Washington v. Steelers
Maybe the terminology needs refinement. A pure pocket passer cannot run. A mobile QB can use his agility to avoid the pass rush. This takes good pocket awareness, and competent blocking. Aaron Rodgers is a good example of this type of player. He is elusive in the pocket, and deadly accurate.
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A dual threat QB can deliver the ball from the pocket, but he adds another element to the attack. He has the option to pass, but if the protection breaks down and there is no open receiver, he can run. He also can roll out and throw on the move. This stresses the defense because it forces them to defend either the pass or the run. They can’t stack the box and dare them to pass, or rush 3, with 8 pass defenders.
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Above all, it does not matter if he is a pocket passer, or a Run and Gun, dual threat guy, if he is inaccurate, he is an inferior QB. Haskins was a scoring machine in college, but he is being benched by a superior QB.
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I am hoping that the Niners can establish a running game, and I hope they stop using Deebo as a decoy. The less Mullens is forced to pass, the better.
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KS should study the Rams- Patriots game, and see how McVay used the No Huddle/ Hurry Up offense to great effect. I think Mullens may be able to thrive in that system.
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Niners 24-23.
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The slide rule will allow QBs to avoid the sledgehammer blows, and prevent injury. Dual threat QBs, if utilized properly, can be very efficient, because the QB just takes what the defense gives him. However, too rigid coaching will not allow for split second decisions while during the play. KS should let the QB be the field general, who makes those decisions on the field. It will make the offense more unpredictable, yet they could devise scripted sequences.
Quote Tweet
Matt Barrows
@mattbarrows
· 46m
#49ers moves:
* Signed DL Alex Barrett, CB Briean Boddy-Calhoun
* Flexed NT Darrion Daniels, C Dakoda Shepley
(Backup C Hroniss Grasu out with a knee injury)
Also: G Tom Compton (concussion) to IR; DL Kevin Givens has roster exemption; is on hand for birth of child.
ACL Recovery Club
@ACLrecoveryCLUB
· Dec 11
The 49ers have the most torn ACL’s since 2013 with 22
The Raiders have the least torn ACL’s since 2013 with 4
Razor,
Is Shepley the kid from the CFL? Wasn’t he a versatile O lineman who could play almost anywhere?
Yea. He put up 225 pounds 27 times on the bench press, ran a 5.15 hand-time 40-yard dash, 4.72 shuttle, 8.01 three-cone, recorded a 31-inch vertical and eight-foot, 9.5-inch broad jump, so he’s got the athletic traits to be successful. I would imagine he’ll get rotated in at RG to give the 49ers an idea of what to do with him next season….
I wonder what the numbers are for 2014 till now, i.e. since the 49ers have played at Levi’s.
Anybody watching Trask notice the lack of velocity on his throws? Looks like he plays on wounded knee as well.
Trask does not have the strongest arm, but he seems to get the ball to his receivers at a high percentage. But he will need a very good Oline at the next level to succeed because he’s not very mobile.
Yes, I have noticed that, Razor … good eye. I don’t think he’s necessarily incapable of throwing with velocity, rather he throws with a natural soft touch, which I think is OK, provided he can crank it up and fire the frozen rope when he needs to. The chronic knee issue is a real red flag for me, even though it’s probably something that can be pretty well managed at the NFL level being that he’s never going to be a guy who is asked to do much of anything with his legs. After watching Jimmy’s reconstructed knee completely derail his once promising career, the last thing I want the 49ers to do is draft an immobile QB with a gimpy knee, even if he was the worlds best pocket passer …. which he’s not, IMO. And especially not with an early round pick.
I have a very strong sense that Kyle is looking for a more mobile QB to run his offense in the near future. Not a QB who’s necessarily going to put up big rushing numbers, but a QB with enough mobility to allow Kyle to take his offense to the next logical step in it’s evolution.
I think the best way to look at it is that Kyle is looking for a pass first QB who is at least mobile enough to present the significant threat as a runner, even if he isn’t going to be asked to do it as much as some of the most mobile QB’s in the NFL are these days.
Would you agree with that?
I’ve yet to see him throw a frozen rope outside the numbers. Looks like he just through a Jimmy pick for 6!
Yes, I agree Shanny wants a quarterback than can make plays off schedule when the pocket breaks down.
*threw
Boy, Trask sure throws a pretty ball though, with outstanding touch! He can drop it in the bucket with the best of them, as well as that back-shoulder pass that is so hard to defend.
No question Kyle wants a QB who can make those off schedule plays, but I think there is a little more to it than simply scrambling and/or extending plays behind the LOS. I think he wants a QB mobile enough to make a defense pay for not accounting for his QB’s ability to not only pick up those precious yards when he’s scrambling, but also capable of executing the occasinal designed QB run. Having that as a legitimate threat, would allow Kyle to add more wrinkles and keep evolving his offense. That said, the ability to throw strikes consistently from within the pocket, and accurate enough downfield to hit those explosives on a consistent basis will always be the #1 attribute Kyle is looking for in his QB, and unfortunately Jimmy seems to have lost the ability to do most all of these things on a consistent basis. It’s a real shame because when he arrived from NE, he had very good touch and he was extremely crafty at extending plays.
I respect Garoppolo’s winning record, but I also am well aware that it was the defense that carried the team in the first half of the 2019 season, and the running game that carried them through the 2019 postseason. And that’s a fact! Plus, he can’t stay healthy even if his game hadn’t regressed as drastically as it clearly has.
The 49ers can no longer afford the 2019 version of Jimmy Garoppolo at his current salary, and I seriously doubt that asking your starting QB to take a significant pay cut would ever be a workable option for a playoff contender, so unless we are ready to accept that the team is in rebuilding mode, rather than reloading mode, it’s time to move on.
Yes, I said we, lol.
Jimmy Garoppolo was once a very good QB, IMO, with room to grow. Nowadays, he’s nothing more than a broken down QB who can’t stay healthy or stay out of his own way. He’s lost his confidence along with his mobility, and frankly …. he’s lost his edge. Paying a broken down QB $25M+ in 2021, with the projected salary cap cut, would be signing the team’s death knell.
Most every throw Trask makes is a touch throw. I do not value him in the 1st round. Others do. I think he can be successful on a team that’s already built to win. Right now he’s playing on that team. It’s hard to keep a team like that together in the NFL. That’s why I look for difference makers in the 1st round at the position. Guys like the top 4 prospects that can make those oft script plays and extend opportunities downfield.
I like the top four QBs as well, but what will it take to get one of them?
The best is Trevor Lawrence, do we go all Mike Dikta (drafting Ricky Williams) to acquire him?
Trask is playing from behind at the moment. I want to see how he does in this scenario.
I watched Mac Jones today and he is more mobile than Trask. But you and I might be able to make a few completions playing behind Bama’ Oline. OK, that’s a stretch, but Jones looks good.
I’m checking out Zack Wilson a little later this evening to get a gauge on him as well.
Mac Jones has definitely grown on me! He’s at least a little more mobile than Trask. Mac Jones is also supposedly one of the most competitive football players that Saban has ever coached, which you gotta love at that position. The kid has MOXIE, but yah, he’s definitely surrounded with elite college talent, which always makes the evaluation process a little more tricky.
He’d be a good fit for the Steelers, but yah, I totally agree. There is no way I would ever use a first round pick on him, which is where I am hearing he is projected (18-32). I know, some people are thinking he could go in the top 10, which I personally doubt. However, he is a QB, so some team might take him that early, but he’s going to be the definition of a statue as an NFL QB, and while I do like him as a big-boddied QB and a pure pocket passer, I certainly don’t like his fit with Kyle Shanahan. That’s not the direction I want to see the 49ers go this off-season, in fact I wouldn’t even take a chance on him with a mid-round pick!
*Just to be clear – I am refering to Kyle Trask in the above post, not Mac Jones.
I would hope the Niners would at least consider Mac Jones if he fell to them.
Yup, I’ve been saying that for a while.
He’s not a guy I’m touching early.
Trask and the Gators are getting outplayed by the Tigers. ? – happy face!
OK, I exaggerated a bit. I might take Trask if he fell to the 3rd round.
It is important to remember that touch is more important than arm strength, as long as a QB has enough arm strength to make those deep throws and the anticipation to throw his receivers open.
And ….. Kyle Trask has magnificent touch on all of his passes, there’s no question about that!
I would give Trask a 2nd round grade and Jones a 3rd round grade. Let’s just say I wouldn’t be too happy with my GM if we miss out on grabbing one of the first four, and I would be enraged if he reached for either in round 1. He would be fired soon afterward….
Yes, to clarify, I meant if Mac Jones fell to the Niners in round 2. I have a 2nd round grade on both Trask and Jones.
I have a feeling Shanny might like Jones. He’s got really good footwork.
Hey Razor, have you scouted Pitt’s QB – Kenny Pickett? I’m just curious if you see him as a potential fit for the Niners as a mid-round pick. I think he’s a sleeper, and a terrific fit for Kyle, and has familiarity with a lot of Kyle’s concepts.
Oh wow, more clutch QB play from Zach Wilson. Just like that, he’s having another terrific game.
Reminds me of Hoyer. A guy you could take a chance on day 3 that will be a career backup with a chance to start. Good mechanics, pocket presence and tough. Got a lot of experience and football smart. Not the best arm.
Absolutely horrible unsportsman like penalty on the Florida CB for throwing the LSU player’s shoe 15 yrds down field. I’ve seen a lot of bone headed plays in my day and this one ranks right up there.
Giving LSU a first down to essentially
wrap up the game is inexcusable.
I thought that given 10 more seconds to play that Trask could have done enough to at least tie the game.
That said, Trask didn’t do enough to win, but I believe that he didn’t hurt himself either.
?Yea, he must have thought he could get away with it in the fog. How about that kick from LSU? That kid had straight up ice cubes floating through his veins! What a kick!
Bo Pollini rushing 3 and in prevent helped Trask. I wouldn’t have been so kind. I would have rushed 4 from a cover 2 with mixed coverage on each side of the field. If he even sniffed field goal range I would have brought a 5th guy up the A gap!
Yup, the LSU defense looked like they were content with allowing Trask to throw underneath in that last series.
LSU had a couple of players that fared well today with familiar names, Shanahan and York.
Brad Johnson’ kid Max was also solid.
Pollini tried to lose the game but the kicker couldn’t see the posts!
Ha! That was Sci-fi fog.
Why is there talk about dual threat QBs? Because KS has become enamored of them. In fact, he wants to make adjustments to fit the system to the QB, rather than make the player fit his system.
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If that is the case, KS should have just stuck with Kaep, who is a dual threat QB. Kaep, supposedly, did not fit his system. Hoyer was horrendous, so KS’s assessment skills are not infallible. Fortunately, in the middle of a train careening out of control, JG fell into their laps. Those last 5 games showed that JG did not need to have full command of the playbook. he was a natural leader, and a natural winner. He passed so well, he did not only throw into tight windows, he threaded the needle. The 2018 ACL injury did throw a monkey wrench into the machine, but 2019 was magical, and they came within 15 minutes of achieving greatness. Now, JG, with his ACL knee, may try to stay in the pocket to deliver the ball. The problem is- if the pass rusher runs by his blocker like he is a turnstile, the pocket passer is a sitting duck.
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Right now, the whole right side of the O line are letting pass rushers to tee off on the QB. They need to make an adjustment, because the Washington D line is stellar, and they are probably licking their chops at the possibilities. Maybe try Skule at RT, or move Tomlinson to RG. Maybe elevate a PS player. Do something. Keeping it the same will probably produce the same results.
Seb,
You’re blinded and enamored by Kaep pt.1 and avoid the inconvenient truth of Keap pt.2.
Take a look at PFF’ stats of Keapernick’ last three seasons and you’ll get a better scope of his fast decline.
Has Kaepernick been blackballed by the league? Yes.
Had Kaepernick lost his QB skills well before he began his National Anthem protest? Yes.
Well, Kaep would have been way better than Mullens.
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Let us see him try out for a team before declaring that he has no skills or talents.
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PFF does not take into consideration that Baalke dismantled a SB team, and the only FA he signed one year was Pears. He traded for Devey, who also acted like a turnstile. Also, remember who the 49er WRs were. Crabtree? He dropped too many passes, but he was the best of the lot.
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Mullens deserves to be benched, so CJB is the next man up. However, Kaep is way better than CJB.
Kaep couldn’t beat some much weaker teams than the WFT back in the last few seasons he played.
Kaep’s skills were starting to evaporate in 2013 about the time when Trent Dilfer said he had regressed.
It’s hard for me to imagine that Kaep has improved in the last four years.
Prediction time.
In order for the 49ers to win, they need a good pass rush to get to Smith and strong play from the offensive line. Since neither is likely to happen, I am thinking the 49ers will lose. They will keep it close, but Washington will end any sliver of hope for the 49ers to make the playoffs.
Washington 28
San Francisco 23
MidWest,
The 9ers will put 8 in the box and jam the WR’s at the line, daring Smith to throw deep. The O will get at least 24 points. Williams will have his best game of the year. Final score:
9ers 24
Wash 20 and we are still alive
Makes sense.
I think Trask still ends up a 1st rounder though, for one of the later picking teams that miss out on the first four guys.
If I can’t have Wilson I want Lance. If any good can come from his one game weak performance it could come by way of falling right into our lap….
Where are we going to pick in the 2023 draft? Well I am making an early pick, Brenden Rice in the 1st round. He is a 6’3″ 205 lbs real freshman who runs a 4.6 forty but looks much faster than that. By the end of his Jr. year he should be at least 6’4″ 225 lbs with a 4.5 forty. OK JL lets make sure we have an extra 1st round pick in 23 in case we have to move up. We should have a QB in place by then as well as Aiyuk, Deebo and Kittle. If Rice stays healthy he is going to be a stud. imho
IMHO I would not take a lineman in the first round, Coach.
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Plus he seems a bit slim for a lineman, even if Kyle does prefer lineman who can pull and block on the run.
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He does possess the dual-threat capability a tackle who can play as a TE in big formations can give you, however.
Seb,
I was talking about Jerry Rice’s son. He is a WR at colorado. Scored 2 TD’s yesterday. I thought the last name would be a big enough hint.
Sorry, Old Coach, that was my catfish.
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I have been steadily advocating for the Niners to trade back, and select a LT to replace TW, who will leave to pursue a ring and the big bucks. If Bakhtiari can command 103 mil, TW should get 23- 26 mil a season.
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With the first round pick, they should avoid another WR with Deebo and Aiyuk on the team under rookie contracts.
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However, if Brendan Rice is as good as you think. maybe trade back to get another second round pick, and use that pick to select him. I still think the next area of biggest need may be CB, with Center the next most urgent need.
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Since so many teams may want QBs in the first round, Rice may drop to the second or third round.
Seb,
Read my original post and you will see I was talking about the 2023 draft when Rice is first eligible. The post was slightly tongue in cheek. I just wanted to let the people around here (who weren’t already) That Rice’s kid might just be a stud.
Ah, so noted.
McGlinchey needs to bring it today to handle Montez Sweat’s speed to power.
Meanwhile coach Benton is out with a +ve COVID test :(
WFT is 0-7 when the opposing team runs over 100 yards.
Gotta run.
Niners should be able to get to Alex more effectively than against the Bill’s top 5 pass pro O line.
Commentors here may recall that one sign of Nolan being clueless was evident when he appointed a linebacker coach named Hostler to coach their #1 QB pick who was transitioning from a spread offense to under center. Hostler has bounced around the league and is now receivers coach for WFT. Alex just can’t get rid of him!
I have to say I’m also concerned about SF’s wide receivers. Deebo is good when he plays but he’s had injury issues dating back to college and he doesn’t appear to be dedicated to staying in shape.
He’s not a guy I’d pay big bucks to keep at this point.
*note* wr is still way down on the list of priorities.
Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing about Deebo. With regards to staying in shape, when they showed him at first I thought he might be a little overweight, but then I got the impression that he has a little lordosis in his lower back that cause his stomach to pooch out. If that’s the case, a trainer should help fix that for obvious reasons.
Seems like Nick Mullens misses that open receiver on that key play of every single drive. You know which pass … the one that Kyle sets up perfectly, and the receiver ends up wide open in the middle of the field. At this point, I’m ready to turn the page on both of these bum QB’s!
Yeah, he’s not a starter in the nfl. He can have good moments, but he’s not a good player now matter how much some commentators want it to be true.
Grant and Jack desperately want Nick Mullens to be that guy.
Look for them to Blame Kyle and and the oline… giving Mullen’s a C+.
I don’t even think he’s backup material, if I’m being honest. He’s already bumped his head against his ceiling, and his ceiling is the floor for some backups around the league. I am a little frustrated with Kyle over the backup QB position. Mullens was horrendous during the last 2 training camps, and he wasn’t even drafted, so why the heck hasn’t the team found a backup who at the very least, has a NFL caliber arm. I get it, there aren’t enough quality QB’s to go around, but if your backup is really only capable of doing bare minimum, both mentally and physically, what are you doing? It’s no wonder this team’s record is absolutely putrid without Garoppolo behind center.
What are the 49ers with either Beathard or Mullens starting behind center- a combined 7-27? WOW! Just wow!
JC, Nick Mullens may as well be wearing a badge in silent movie by the Keystone Film Co.
Nick Mullens is a bad joke! Sorry, but this kid isn’t even backup material, IMO! He’s holding the football with one hand down around his waist? Are you kidding me? That’s something the teach out of you in Pop fricking Warner! WTF!
The 49ers need a complete reset at the QB position. No question about that!
CJ in the second half?
Why not?
Agree 49R, this is tough to watch. Mullen’s has never had the talent to be a top notch starting QB. Tough, well prepared kid who will probably make a great coach some day. The fact that he hasn’t got hurt is a testament to his grit. Jimmy, well, when he is healthy and has a very good team around him, he is damn good. Good enough to get his team to a Super Bowl. However, he’s an injury waiting to happen. Too immobile for today’s game. Unless he has an impenetrable OL, which he doesn’t (anymore), not even close, he will get hurt again. I think Kyle knows that, sees that. He’s gone. Mullens isn’t the answer. Beathard isn’t the answer. Draft? I guess. They won’t win another game this season. 5-11 sounds about right for what we’re witnessing. Happy holidays all!
Yah, I think they need to draft their next starter. I understand the risk, but Kyle is supposed to know what he wants out of his QB’s. That’s one reason they gave him a couple fat contracts. With the sticky salary cap situation unfolding over the next couple seasons, it’s time for Kyle to find the heir apparent through the draft. And if he can’t do that, then he needs to step out of the way and let his personnel staff do it for him.
I think they need to find a good back up.
7 straight games for the Niners with at least 2 turnovers. Ugh!
Now Warner’s down. Season’s over…
Hey, Jack Hammer. You still want to compare Mullens to Garoppolo?
Just stop!
Wouldn’t surprise me to see Beathard replace him in this game.
But AES they are really close…
just don’t look at the turnovers:)
Mullen’s reminds me of how my father described Steve Deburg, he’d put up numbers, and look decent but inevitably throw the game away.
No, no, JH thinks Mullens is smarter than JG. Too bad he carries the football like a loaf of bread, and throws like the DB is the intended receiver.
Haven’t seen any improvement from Mullens over this 7 game stretch. If anything I feel like he has been getting more inaccurate. It might be time to “turn over” the entire QB room.
Yup, if Mullens doesn’t throw that pick 6 we likely win the game.
I thought that Mullens did a good job getting us a TD in the 4th QTR, but it was too little, to late.
I feel that with about six minutes in the game, Shanahan should have gone for a first down with 4th and 1.
Guess he couldn’t trust his offense.
Mullens simply cannot throw a slant route, or really any route in the area of 10-15 yards down the center of the field. He overthrows that pass EVERY SINGLE F—ing TIME, unless of course, the ball get’s batted down at the LOS, because he telegraphs every single pass he attempts! Grrrr!
BTW, what ever happened to looking off of your primary receiver, giving a pump fake, throwing the ball safely away, and/or holding the football securely when your pocket starts to collapse?
Do they not teach that any more?
We want CJ, we want CJ!!
Get Mullen’s out of there. He hasn’t thrown a good pass all day.
I can’t even….
OK, who’s our 1st pick in the draft?
This season is a wrap.
QB.
That all depends on where we end up drafting, and who’s still on the board. It also depends on who’s available on the free agent market. Still too many unknowns at this point to make a good guess. What I am fairly confident in guessing is that he 49ers will have a new starting QB in 2021!
Christian Darrishaw, OT Virginia Tech, after trading back, hopefully, twice.
Hurts put the hurt on NO. Maybe Philly isn’t in the QB hunt this draft, contrary to some earlier postings.
Dion Jordan’s been getting some sacks lately. Keeper?
Possibly, he should be really cheap.
I’ve seen enough of Mullen’s to last me a lifetime. I hope we see CJ the rest of the season.
Well, that loss is pretty much on brand for the 49ers in 2020, sadly. Too many silly mistakes.
One of the few bright spots of this season is Aiyuk. He’s looking every bit like a future star WR for the 49ers. Now has 50 catches on the season in 10 games, and around 650 yards. In his last five games he has 36 catches for 492 yards and 3 TDs.
Aiyuk is a stud, I can’t wait to see more of him and Deebo as a dynamic duo, I think they are both great fits for this offense and compliment each other well, but it’s now time to shut Deebo down for the season. He needs to get this “hamstring” injury healed up before it becomes a chronic problem.
Just think what he could do with a qb firing dimes on time and in stride.
Yeah, it’s kind of funny to think he is actually being held back and putting up those numbers. Though I suppose one could also argue he is benefitting a bit from having Kittle and Deebo out from the point of view of target share.
Regardless, he looks very good. And is only 10 games into his career.
First things first. Right now I’ll settle for a QB who doesn’t pitch it to the opposing DBs.
I saw Steve DeBerg play all his home games at the ‘Stick and all on TV. He was WAY better than Mullens. He threw the most beautiful spirals Ive ever seen and threw the ball down field, with a great long bomb, unlike Mullens, who dinks and dunks and has trouble throwing the ball longer than 20 yards. Steve’s problem, besides QBing behind crappy OL’s, and playing most of his career on lousy Niner teams, was his propensity to throw critical interceptions with the games on the line. He was a bit of a gun slinger, because he had a great arm. That was also his demise. Way better than Nick though.
DeBerg had far better tools than Mullens.
Maybe Santa Clara County was trying to do them a solid.
Saleh’s D looked really good today. Of course part of that was Wash being bad but he had Smith confused by his changing defenses. You can say what you want about Smith but he is seldom confused and very very smart. So lets just stop it with the Saleh questions. He will be a HC, he will be a good HC and we need the 2 extra 3rd round picks. I see KS changing QB’s this week and as hard as this is to believe CJ will be slightly worse than Mullens. Which means we could end up 5-11 with a pick as low as #5 depending on how strong our schedule is. A QB or a trade back scenario. I like the latter but a QB wouldn’t be too bad.
Coach, you would rather trade back and take a chance on losing out on either Zach Wilson or Trey Lance, rather than drafting one of them?
That’s not a rhetorical question, BTW. I am curious to get your early take on this.
49,
Yes I want to trade back until we have 10-12 picks with 5 or 6 of them being in the top 3 rounds. We can put our cap problems to rest in one good draft. JG can be the QB next year and after 2021 they can take care of the QB position if they still feel they need to. They should spend almost the entire draft on DL (pass rushers) OL and CB’s. Maybe a couple of cheap B level FA’s along with their usual great job with UDFA’s. I believe that games are won in the trenches. Put a stud O line in front of Jimmy G and he can win a SB. Now after about 6 years of horrible luck we all know health is more important than anything else and I have no idea how we can break this horrible injury curse.
OC,
I can see the merit in your argument and have debated in my head over and over what the best course of action is for SF.
1. Extend Jimmy for cap relief, Add a Vet Center and try to fix our secondary via draft.
Result=better QB in the short term with a much worse team overall while the rookies adjust.
Problem – Jimmy might bet killed (again), and the team will be average at best when healthy for 1 year.
2. Cut Jimmy add Vet interior Olineman, and CB’s in FA and draft a qb.
Result=better team right now with a worse qb in the short term.
Problem – The qb is almost guaranteed to hold back a team that is potentially very good for 1 year.
3.T he Blowup, Cut Jimmy and pick up a salvageable qb project. Trade Back and pick up the best combo of OL, Edge, and cb’s and a Vet lineman and Corner to lead the team.
Result= Amazing team and meh qb with far less upside.
Reply- Connor Cook.
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;p
Connor Cook? I don’t know why he is your salvageable prospect… but ok.
Shoup, maybe you did not know this, but 49 posted a treatise on Cook, declaring he was the next Joe Montana.
Ahh ok.
Seb is full of Sh_t Shoup, that’s ludicrous! Shame on you Seb!
I simply said Connor Cook looked like he might be worth taking a chance on in the 2nd round, whereas crazy arm, aka KEVIN HOGAN, was the QB Sebnynah was enamored with.
Methinks I have hit a nerve.
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49, feel the burn……
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No one can write voluminous love notes about Connor Cook, then watch him implode in a playoff game, and expect to not get some pushback.
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Well, at least Kevin Hogan is still on a team, while Cook has not been in the NFL for 2 years.
Come on Seb, everyone here has their “wish they could take back” pick. Maybe not you, as you are perfect. But remember how high Razor was on Sollie? CFC was certain Kyler Murray was destined for bust-ville. Heck, I was positive Reuben Foster was going to be the second coming of Patrick Willis. That’s why I’m a little leery of all the accolades being thrown around here at this years QB draft crop.
Exactomundo, Rib.
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This Covid19 pandemic has totally disrupted the college football season, so it is hard to accurately assess the talent.
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Personally, I have not seen any college QB that will be a guaranteed slam dunk prospect.
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Ol’ 49 waxed poetically about Connor Cook, so I am just giving him a hard time. Guess he cant take the heat. If he wants to make blanket statements about these new QBs, I will keep reminding him about how far off he was about Cook.
OK gotcha. Good stuff Coach, and Shoup. Sebnynah?….. Not so much.
As for the injuries, while I do believe a lot of it is simply bad luck, I assume the entire athletic training, strength and conditioning program needs to be addressed, because it can’t ll possibly be explained away as “bad luck” …. can it?
Yah, while I could get on board with trading back and acquiring as many picks as possible, that’s also a bit of a risk, because it’s not as easy as it sounds. Sure, if they were sitting with the top pick, or 2nd overall pick, that’s a different story altogether. And I simply can’t get on board with rolling with a lame duck QB for another season. I’d rather they pursue a mid-tier veteran QB to act as a bridge, while they take a shot on developing their next franchise QB, because I believe that’s all Jimmy is at this stage of his career (plus he can’t even stay healthy), and that means Jimmy is woefully over-paid at this stage as well, IMO. If they plan on rebuilding this team almost entirely through the draft, they likely won’t be a viable contender in 2021 anyways, so why not start developing your future QB while you’re, at least partially, n rebuild mode?
As for the injuries: While I assume a lot of it is just simply bad luck, I think the entire athletic training, strength and conditioning department needs to be re-evaluated from the top down. It can’t all possibly be explained away simply as “bad luck” …. can it?
It is not as easy as it sounds? In 2017, the Niners traded back and got a boatload of picks. One was used to select Fred Warner.
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This last draft, the Niners managed to trade back one spot, and garnered a 4th round pick.
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Trading back is only impossible, if one does not try.
Niners has been very good all season. If once takes into account the loss of games missed by key players to injuries and the resulting constant churn in personnel, they have been excellent. There were only two games where they were outplayed — the Brian Allen game and the Bills game.
JLS at All49ers said that the defense and STs were the key to victory.
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I have said it many times. The team that makes the fewer mistakes, has a good chance to win.
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Mullens declared he considers himself to be a starter. He just proved why he is a backup. He gave Washington 14 points.
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Mullens should watch Bull Durham and learn from that pitcher. He started off by declaring that he was the next best thing to sliced bread. In the end, he ate some humble pie, and fervently wished he could help the team win, without making grandiose statements. Nuke finally evolved into ‘Coach Speech’ with tried and true safe cliche’s that says nothing dramatic or controversial. Mullens should also eat some humble pie.
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Well, it looks like the Niners are out of the playoffs, but I still hope they compete to win.
1. This should put the nail in the coffin of the “Mullens better than Jimmy ” theory. Unfortunately it probably wont.
I’ll bet that someone will find a stat that shows when a game is out of hand, Mullens has better much number than Jimmy G.
Ha. I made that point a few weeks ago. It is easy to move the ball when the D is a deep prevent zone. Anyway critical game coming up against Dal to determine draft position. Glad this ghastly season and year are almost over.
I don’t care about draft position. I just want Niners to win every game they play. Damn, it must be depressing for the Niners players to go into battle with Mullens :(
I’ll tell you guys one thing ….. Jeff Garcia is OVER Nick Mullens. Lol. He cannot believe how easy of an assignment Nick Mullens is vs a defense. How is it that an undersized QB with a noodle arm never learned the art of climbing the pocket, among other things.
Did you hear Whitner’s meltdown over Mullens in the NBC Post Game Report? Priceless!
No, but I did listen to Donte on the NBC Sports BA – Niners Post Game Show tonight, along with Jeff and Takeo. Those guys are all done with Mullens.
yup, that’s the one I was referring to. Epic rant!
Josh Allen is the truth. AFC Championship game just might be more entertaining than the Super Bowl.
Let’s uncover the real problem here. Kyle Shanahan cannot develop QB’s and he sure as hell cannot select the right one for his offense.
Hoyer, Beathard, Jimmy and Mullen’s. All scapegoats for a head coach who cannot get it right and keeps getting a pass because he doesn’t “have his guy”.
Well how many draft picks and trades does it take 4 years into a contract to find the guy you need to make this great offense work?
We can blame Mullen’s till the cows come home. It’s not his fault he is a back up. It’s the guy who put him there as the #2 QB.
My frustration now lies with the coach who seems to not have any accountability to the injuries and poor play this year.
While my feelings on this issue is a little more tempered, I am having similar thoughts.
It’s time for Kyle to take ownership of the offensive woes, especially with the O line and the QB positions.
The O line has some systemic pass blocking issues and the QBs do not seem to have developed much reading defenses and decision making.
I have feeling CFC will fly by here soon with a comment about Kyle :)
Yup, he should have stayed with Kaep.
The fish rots from the head.
No the problem is…Nick is not supposed to play…it should have been Jimmy..
He’s never available because he’s always hurt most of the time…
Thus he cant fully develop..
But passing mechanics…and making the correct reads is something that should already be learned before they get to Kyle…
Jimmy was under Brady and Belichek..
For christsakes…
You can get a lil mad about Beathard..but he was seen as a high third..really fourth round gamble…who Hoyer was supposed to teach the scheme….groom then take over..when ready….
Kyle didnt want Jimmy or Nick…
That was Lynch for Jimmy…and Former Qb coach..Rick Scangerello…for Nick..
I think a key move the 49ers need to make this offseason is hire a new (and good) QB coach. I see a lot of complaints about Shanahan not developing his QBs, and that does fall partly on him, but that is a big part of what the QB coach is there for too. Since Day has been there the QBs have gotten worse. Regardless of what they do with JG they will need to add young QBs and they want to make sure the QB coach is able to get the best out of them.
I’m coming around to this way of thinking as well. There are a lot of mechanical flaws with this group that I don’t see improvement in.
The Niners have been decimated with injuries. Every position group has been affected. They could have tanked for a high draft pick, but they have fought hard all year.
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It is unfortunate when they are beaten by a superior opponent, but too many times, the Niners have defeated themselves with all of the unforced errors. Yes, they players need to execute, but the coaches have not prepared them well enough, and the coaches do not seem to be able to make the timely adjustments.
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This last game, even with all the turnovers, had the Niners within a score of tying (with a 2 point PAT). Then the McGlinchey hold negated a first down conversion.
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Mullens did not play well, but he was hurried by all the pressure. Fixing the O line should be their highest priority. Some are dissing JG for being injury prone. Maybe the best way to keep JG healthy, is to protect him better.
the absolute number one need in the off season is to revamp the offensive line. no offense is going to function behind this joke they put out there. the only one i might keep is Trent the rest can go. if you can protect him JG can be fine in this offense
I know it’s purely hypothetical, but I ask myself how would a Zach Wilson or Trey Lance have done against the WFT yesterday.
I saw Mullens roll out on one pass that he completed. QBs like the afore mentioned could have done this more often.
I still like Trask and Mac, but I ask myself the same question with a different twist; how would they have fared against the WFT yesterday?
Again, It’s only hypothetical, but I have to admit that it has me leaning a little more towards Wilson or Lance.
The main issue Mullens had yesterday wasn’t his lack of ability throwing on the move. He missed too many passes from the pocket, and didn’t navigate the pocket well.
I see Shanahan is now also saying they need to work on McGlinchey’s weight this offseason. It’s something I’ve mentioned from early on in the season- his weight drop I believe has been his biggest issue as it has led to him not being able to hold his ground in pass pro. If he gets that right he can be a good enough RT.
It’s a two edge sword for me. On the one hand coming in more stout would help him hold up against straight-line pass rushers, but the flip side is that the quick pass rushers could get around more often.
What I’ve seen from McGlinchey this year is the inability to stop speed rushers. But if last season was an indication of how much better he was at a heavier weight, than Shanahan is on the right track.
Dropping the weight has not made him any more agile. He always had some issues with speed rushers, and it hasn’t changed at the reduced weight. What has changed is he now gets abused by power, which has actually meant he now tends to be even slower to react to speed as he knows he needs to set himself early to handle power.
Adding weight in order to better handle power should just get him back to where he was last year, which was fine.
He’s given up 3 sacks. I got Williams down for 5.
Maybe he’s only been credited with 3 sacks, but there is no doubt that McGlinchey has been pretty terrible at anchoring in pass pro this year and has been responsible for a lot of pressures that have affected the QB.
Not gonna argue your point, but mine is I don’t think he’s as bad as some would have us believe.
Hmm, Grant predicted a Niner victory. He wrote- ‘How the 49er will beat Washington. The 49ers have to win, and they will.’
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He also touted Mullens. He shouts out ‘Hoover Alabama’ to Mullens grandfather, most podcasts. Mullens almost single handedly (how apropos) lost the game.
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Guess Grant gave himself an F for quality control. Well, he can’t be right all the time.
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